#141 - MNML Golf: Sam Goulden - Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore

Episode Transcript
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Paul (00:35):
What's up guys?
Welcome to the Behind the GolfBrand Podcast.
This week I have probably oneof my closest friends in the
golf industry.
He's much better looking than I, am in much better shape and
much tanner, but we bonded.
I would say february 2020.
It was like a brother fromanother mother, like no joke.

(00:55):
There's probably like threepeople in the industry.
I'm just close to um, so I'mreally excited to have my good
friend, sam golden, on the show.
He's like one of my favoritepeople and we are good friends.
So welcome to the show, wowthat's.

Sam (01:10):
That's a lot, paul.
I feel the same way, uh, thankyou.
Thank you for having me on theshow.

Paul (01:16):
Let me tell you something.
This guy is such a good dude.
Okay, this, this kind of dutyis for real.
Straight up, like three yearsago, was like, let's go make a
video at minimal.
So I went out to minimal when Iflew out there, right, and you
pick me up at the airport andwe're just going to shoot a
bunch of stuff together.
This dude doesn't tell me this.
Okay, so he gives me hisapartment, which I didn't know

(01:40):
he was doing, and he's stayingat his own club, which I didn't
know he was doing, and he'sstaying at his own club, which I
didn't know he was doing thateither, until the next day.
And I was like, oh, you stay atyour girlfriend's.
He's like, no, I stayed at theclub and I was like wait, what?
So essentially, he gave me hishouse, his one bedroom apartment
on the beach, so I could staythere and make content with him.
Who does that?
That's, who does this guy righthere?
that's why he's wow wow, I loveyou too and then I got the water

(02:05):
and I couldn't even surf, so Ijust have to film him and
campbell surfing.
And then we got the breakfast.
It was the best.
That was the best.
That was a fun time.

Sam (02:13):
Remember that yeah, we have to just do it again.
Let's do another like uh, fastforward to 2025 and we'll do
that.
Well, we were just talkingabout this.
Why should somebody listen tothis podcast today?
Do you want me to answer thatquestion?

Paul (02:30):
You can answer that it's my show.

Sam (02:32):
What are you?
An interviewer you answer.
Wait, who's supposed to answerit?
I don't know.
I'm going to ask you, then whyshould someone listen to this
podcast today?
What's the point?
Why should they stay on forthis three-hour podcast that
we're about to do?

Paul (02:46):
Three hours.
I don't know I think you'regoing to hear it why are you
having me on this podcast?

Sam (02:55):
Why am I here?

Paul (02:57):
PR Fair.

Sam (03:01):
It's good for the brand, for sure.

Paul (03:02):
All right.
So Sam hasn't been on thepodcast in like four years
probably and we talk probablytwice a month, I would say at
least um, and they have stuffgoing on that I want to talk
about because I'm really excited.
They've grown a lot since thefirst time he was on a lot, a
lot um, and sam has moved too,so we can talk about that um and

(03:27):
also just talk about kind ofwhat it's really like to do this
like what do you think so doyou want?
to talk about your stuff, or howwill you?

Sam (03:37):
I'll go with you right now well, I think for me, like you
know, we were talking about thisearlier but I I listen to
podcasts.
I mean, I have like a coupledifferent podcasts.
I listen to a surf podcast thatI really like, and then I
listen to like business podcasts.
It's like all I listen to, andthe surf podcast is once a week,
so it's like 90% businesspodcast and I want to my podcast

(04:00):
.
I want to learn somethingthat's going to add value to my
life and for the most part it'slike business stuff, but
sometimes it's like health stufftoo.
You know, it's like blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.

Paul (04:11):
So like.

Sam (04:12):
I don't know how much I can help in the health stuff, but I
can definitely share someexperiences that I've had in
minimals, like you know, growinginto a toddler phase, and also
maybe like my learning of likehow YouTube, to start a YouTube
channel and turn that into agolf instruction platform and
the clubs, like there's a bunchof stuff that I've like found

(04:34):
myself doing in the last uh, inmy adult life.
Uh, and if I could be helpfulthere, like I, I, um, you know,
maybe somebody is like thinkingabout starting a business, or
they're like have alreadystarted one and they've got
questions, or maybe they'rethinking of like quitting their
job and being like we did I'mover it.

(04:55):
Yeah, like I mean I don't know,I guess it's like really hard
because I don't know.

Paul (05:00):
I quit law, bro, the fricking school, like I mean
mean to me.

Sam (05:05):
That's what I can give like some insight on why I quit real
jobs and started jobs thatrelied solely on me While you
did.
You can share that too, andthen how I'm making it work
sometimes and how.

Paul (05:22):
I oh, you always had to adapt.

Sam (05:25):
I mean yeah, I mean I think adapting for me like probably
the most influential thing thathappened to me when it comes to
my god there's.
There's like so many over theyears, but one that really
sticks out when I was reallyyoung, like 24, my gm at my golf
course.
I was a teaching pro and the GMthere was in St Louis at Wolf

(05:45):
Hollow Golf Club in Washington,missouri, and the general
manager of the golf course and Iwere going to this PGA section,
which is like these, whereteachers and club pros go,
everybody in khaki pants hangsout 100%.
I had my best dockers on and mynavy blue sweater.
You gave your papers percent,like I had my best dockers on

(06:09):
and my navy blue sweater, and uh, and now you go yeah, I've got
all my stuff.

Paul (06:10):
and I really took those seriously, though, because I
like I was so, yeah, you wantedto be a professional like that
was your thing and so the.

Sam (06:16):
But we left and we're driving home from this thing and
the gm, if I'm rememberingcorrectly him probably not like
what I remember is he said youknow, sam, you could be that
someday.
And I was like what?
And he was like teacher of theyear, pga teacher of the year.
And I was like what?
Like this guy who I the biggestgolf guy I know directly, he's

(06:40):
like my GM, he owns a golfcourse was saying to me, me 24
year old Sam, you could be thePGA teacher of the year someday.
And I was like he listed maybea couple of reasons like you
know, you've got the, you'regood at it, you like it, you
love it, you can tell you'repassionate about it.
You could be that someday.
So that was my immediate goal.
Then it was almost like oh, Icould well, then I have to.

(07:02):
Now I, I have to become pgateacher of the year.
So that became my like directgoal for four or five years, not
until I started like wanting tocompete.
That was like the most pivotalthing that happened to me was
somebody else was like you coulddo this yeah, somebody believed
in you, but you were like wait,wait a minute.

(07:22):
Yeah, that's it.
That's it Exactly.
Somebody who I really trusted,believed in me enough to say
that to me and I I believe them.
You know I don't think anybodycan say that to you, but if
somebody you trust says that toyou and they've got a good
reason to know that you can doit, then, like I couldn't say
this to the audience, right,paul, I couldn't be like, hey,

(07:43):
everybody out there if you'relistening right now, you too can
do it.
Like I don't know you wellenough to say that millions of
listeners I only know, like youknow me and I and maybe somebody
in your life could do that foryou and it's potentially even
worth a question.
Like some people don't justlike walk around handing out
gifts of compliments, maybe youhave to ask somebody like hey,

(08:05):
do you think I could ever bethis?

Paul (08:07):
and you might find that somebody who you trust, who has
the authority to tell you thatanswer, might say yeah, I think
you could yeah, I think I thinkit's like it's hard because I
think like people don't knowwhat you see is not how, like

(08:28):
it's not as easy as it looksRight.
And when you see what you seeand I think when it comes to
like athletes or you knowYouTubers or whatever it is like
you see the reward right, yousee where they're at, but like
it was a long ass road to get tothere and yeah I mean, and you,
I have a very close friend ofmine who's a big youtuber and

(08:54):
it's not all that great eitheronce you're that big.
You know what I mean.
Like you think, oh, I'm makingmillions of dollars, but it's
like, yeah, but you're also.
Is it as cool as you thought?
Is it as fun as you thought?
You know, like I don't know.

Sam (09:08):
Yeah, I think that's why I think the podcasts are so
valuable and, like reading booksis really valuable.
It's why everybody at minimal Iknow you know, paul, this, but
most people probably don't knowthat everybody on our team reads
a book every month together.
Yeah, they have a book club.

Paul (09:24):
Like legit, regardless of where they're at, and they have
a meeting to talk about the book.
Yeah, every week.

Sam (09:31):
we spend half of our weekly meeting talking about the book
we're reading.
This is the book we just readDude.
This is so cool, Paul, so notthis book.

Paul (09:39):
I had my law firm.
I had that book when clientswould see that they'd be like
what?
The fuck I'm like yeah, I swearto God, I got that book.

Sam (09:47):
Yeah, bitch no but what I was going to say is the book
club is so sick.
Okay, multiple reasons.
I could go on about the bookclub forever.
Number one the reason we'retalking about it right now is
because I think it's reallyvaluable to see the stories of
other founders and entrepreneursand stuff, so you can know, as
a founder and entrepreneur, thatwhat everybody else went

(10:09):
through.
Nike didn't make money for Xamount of years and was hyper
leveraged on millions of dollars.
At one point definitelyrefinanced and mortgaged the
house multiple times.
Like Nike, phil Knight, thatbook Shoe Dog was like massively
instrumental in helping notonly me but our entire team
understand what it looks like tobe a company.

(10:30):
I don't even think people whowork at companies know what the
company's going through.

Paul (10:39):
They're just like doing their job or like seriously,
like I don't know, like, unlessyou're an owner, or you're, or
it's a small enough companywhere the owner shares what's
happening.
I don't know.
They're just going there foreight hours, dude, they're out
and they should Like.

Sam (10:54):
I really think everybody should understand, like, what
makes the company successful.
So like it all comes back towhy anybody does what they do.
And I do minimal for my ownpersonal reasons.
And I remember pretty early onthe reason we started the book
club was because I was like I'mso passionate about this, like I

(11:15):
cannot make a bag that sucks.
I cannot like when a customercomplains about the product.
They have some issue with it.
It gives me like pain.
I'm like, oh god oh, it'spersonal.

Paul (11:27):
Yeah, it's personal because it's personal no, really
exactly right you don't realizethat either, right like as well
as a customer.

Sam (11:34):
Probably most customers don't real I mean, maybe not all
companies do have someone whoit hurts personally to hear that
your product sucks or it didn'twork.
But but I think for our companyit was like me and five other
people.
Right, it's always been like us, this kind of small little
group.
And there was someone in ourcompany who was like Sam, why
are you so motivated, like I'mtrying to find motivation for me

(11:57):
, why are you so motivated?
And I was like, dude, greatquestion.
And then I was like, well, youknow, I've read all these books
and blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, maybe if you'veread all the same books I've
read, you'll also be motivated.
So the first like six months ofour book club was me rereading
my favorite books with the restof the team.
So we read.

(12:17):
We read Shoe Dog, whichactually I think maybe came a
little bit later, but we readLet my People Go Surfing, which
go surfing, which is, like Ithink, probably most, it's
definitely the most influentialbusiness book that I've read and
that our team has read.
Let my people go surfing forthose who don't know is the
founder of patagonia.
It's kind of like his story,his, his methodology and brand

(12:39):
building and, um, really, reallycool book.
If, if, uh, if you want to see,well, I think I just would love
for everybody to know the stuffthat's in that book, because it
talks a lot about how bad forour planet producing products
actually is.
So when I read that book I waslike, okay, I need to find a way

(13:01):
to produce products that aregood for the planet.
That's why minimal is for theplayer for the planet.
So our whole team reading thatbook now our whole team is like,
oh, I get it.
Now I get why Sam is making thebags out of recycled material.
I get why we have the trade itforward program.
I understand why this isimportant and that's like one,
exactly One tiny little segmentof like our business and why we

(13:24):
do it in that book.
Then we read Shoe Dog and thenit was like, holy shit,
companies like Nike have oncealmost failed, so it and like I

(13:44):
would remember hearing peoplelike, dude, is this company like
going to fail or whatever.
They weren't saying it out loud, but I kind of sensed that it
felt maybe like that.
So when we read Shoe Dog andeverybody learned that like
every company goes through thesecycles of ups and downs and
positive months and making amonth, and blah, blah, blah.
Then it was like, okay, nowthese guys understand this.

(14:07):
And then we read the Lululemonfounders story, which is really,
really good, and yeah, so weread all these books to help
everybody on the team understandwhat it's like to be a small
business and maybe a hugebusiness.
That was once a small business.
But then this book, this book uh, I actually wasn't that
interested in reading it.

(14:27):
But one of the kids on our teamthis, this kid, jackson, who
was like our shipping.
We hired him to like ship bags.
He would come in at like threeo'clock bag, put labels on all
the boxes that were going outthat day, set him up for the ups
guy and ship him out.
That was jackson's job.
Then, like golf season camearound, he got too busy, and so
we're like all right, jackson,you got to go play golf, we're

(14:50):
gonna have axel do this now, andso we didn't like fire him or
anything, but like his golfseason was gonna get in the way
of the shipping schedule.
So nothing, no, no big deal,and he stops working for minimal
and a couple years later Ilater I get a text from him.
It's a picture of this book andhe says hey, sam, if you
haven't read this book, I'mhalfway through it and I'm

(15:12):
loving it.
I never would have read a booklike this if it wasn't for
minimal golf's book club and Iwas like, oh dude, that's so
sick.
This 17 year old kid is readingbooks that like you know, and
so.
So that's another thing that Ithink is really sick.
It's like, well, whatever,that's just a side side note to

(15:35):
like the program, the, the bookclub thing that we do.
But yeah, I think, um, thebooks that we read help us to
understand that.
It's not easy sometimes andit's not like.
Could I remember meeting peopleand then being like oh, sam,

(15:56):
you're the owner, and I was likedon't act, like that's freaking
cool, like that's the nar,that's sucks right now.
Yeah, I'm the owner, I'm theguy the factory calls when the
you know the payments do.
I'm the guy that like has tomake sure that the delay in
shipping, or they fuck up theorder, or yeah, I'm not right.

Paul (16:14):
It's like the buck stops with you.
Like, yeah, I'm the one thathas to solve that problem at the
middle of the night becauseit's yeah, yeah.

Sam (16:24):
So I think like, yeah, I really do think like that.
What like what you said?
Paul is like super dead on.
It's not what it looks like.
I remember thinking like thefounder of johnny o must be rich
, and this was in 2009.
I was like competing full-timeand teaching some lessons on the
side and I was like, oh, maybethese guys will give me free
clothes to wear in my tournament.

(16:45):
So I email the guy and I'm like, hey, johnny, oh, my friend
from st louis also knows youcould I get some free stuff?
And he was like, I'll get, I'llget you some stuff.
But like he kind of likealluded to the fact that it
wasn't like easy or like it'snot like yeah yeah, yeah yeah,

(17:06):
but I just like I thought, Idon't know, I thought the same
thing.
I thought all these companieswho are putting stuff online and
selling stuff online must bemillionaires.
They all must be millionaires.
They like just I don't know,like basic assumption, they must
be millionaires, even likeminimal, like nearly did a
million in revenue in 2022.
And it was the first year thatI paid myself and the whole year

(17:32):
I paid myself, I think eitherpaid myself, starting in June
$5,000 a month.
So I think June, july, august,september, october, november,
december, so seven months,$35,000.
We did a million in revenue 991000 in revenue.
You're allowed to get paid,dude.
That's how it works always.
But I'm not complaining aboutlike for sure I'm not.

(17:54):
I hear you, dude, but it's like, this is true, stuff like, dude
, I would love.
I mean, that's why we read thebooks, because it's amazing to
hear that phil knight and hiswife, who had they had kids they
had to like put their houseagainst a loan to keep Nike
alive.
And now Nike, you know, andthis was not like year one, this

(18:16):
was like year eight or nine orsomething.
It was like I just don't think.

Paul (18:21):
I think I don't think people realize and I don't say
the public or anything like thatbut even like media or
influencers or fill in the blankright, like what they do say
has can hurt a brand that might,may or may not even be that

(18:46):
successful.
You know what I'm saying Likeyou can't, you can't like throw
a someone under the bus to givegood publicity yourself.
You know what I mean and I'veseen it now and I've heard it
from other people, otherfounders and CEOs of people
doing that, and it's like Inever did that Right, I was like
you know what, if something wasfucked up, I would just.
I was like you know what, ifsomething was fucked up, I just

(19:07):
wouldn't review it.
I'd be like you know what, Ican't.
This is hard.
I told brands that, but I don'tknow.
It's like.
I think another brand I'm notgoing to name who's very big,
I'm friends with their CEO alsoand I remember the first time he
said to me he goes.
He was really busy talking tosomebody at the PGA show, so I
was like, oh, never mind, Ithought.

(19:27):
And then, um, so I startedwalking away and this guy like
taps me on the shoulder and Iturn around.
It's him.
You know all these peoplesurrounding him, right, and he's
like paul, paul.
And I was like, oh my god, youknow my name.
I'm like what's up, dude?
I mean I knew, we knew who Iwas, but he's like you know what
he said and I'll never forgetthis he goes.
He's like what did he say?
He goes, of course I know yourname.

(19:47):
He goes.
I trust you with my babies.
That's what he said.
I trust you with my babiesBecause, like everything, he
creates it right, just like you,it's your baby.
For years, right, he's beensending me stuff.
So it's like yeah, dude, I readevery one of those Like that's
my thing, I made that, you knowwhat I mean Like even though I
made a thousand of them or10,000 of them, like, and it's
like you don't forget that, andI think especially when you're a

(20:09):
brand.

Sam (20:11):
I think that's why this podcast like when we were
talking and trying to figure out, like why people should listen
to this thing I, I don't know.
It's definitely something thata customer, and myself included
doesn't always see that there'sa real person.
Usually there's a real person,many, many real people right,

(20:34):
sometimes like hundreds of realpeople.
Yeah, people trying to make thisright um, and like stitch is a
great example.
Like, dude, that golf bag is agreat golf bag for so many
reasons.
And it got the worst reviewever from uh, from the uh, the
owner of my golf spot.

(20:54):
Right, he was like, he was likeI can't recommend this bag to
anyone.
And I was like that's so harshdude.
Like, okay, Number one, didtheir zippers break on a bunch
of bags?
Yes, but like, were they tryingfor that to happen?
Did Stitch say like oh, we'regoing to screw customers over by
making bags?
No, they didn't know.
They definitely didn't knowthat they were breaking until

(21:17):
the bags were out there in reallife getting used by a bunch of
customers.
And at that point for Stitchwho I guess that year, probably
last year, probably sold like 30, 30 000 golf bags, their bags
cost landed probably like 70bucks.
So do 30 000 times 70, thinkabout how much money they had
invested in those golf bags anddumping bags though, because

(21:40):
what they selling them like?

Paul (21:41):
I've never seen a costco and I was like oh wait a minute
I mean.

Sam (21:44):
But this is also just a sad .
Sad like when I see that I feelbad for the people who are
running the company.
Oh, yeah, because, yeah,because, dude, like if they're
selling bags at Costco I don'tthink they're selling to Costco.

Paul (21:57):
I think they sold to a wholesaler and the wholesaler
was like all right, I'm going tosell to Costco.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.

Sam (22:01):
Maybe so yeah, but I mean, there's just so many things that
have to occur for, like, acompany to be in that position
where their stuff is at Costco,and I don't think.

Paul (22:11):
I'm just saying if it's planned, right.

Sam (22:17):
If you're making $300 golf bags and they're $129 at Costco,
you're crying.

Paul (22:22):
Yeah, because you probably sold it for $30 or $20 to a
whole.
There's no way.

Sam (22:26):
There's no way.

Paul (22:27):
Yeah, you're just like you're getting like pennies back
on what you spent which isterrible, unless you had
overstocked so much that youwere it's like last season and
you had so many bad.
I don't really.
I have no idea.

Sam (22:38):
But you still paid for them .
You know you still.
You still paid for it being.
Warehouse them, warehouse them,do that deal, pay somebody,
whoever did that deal withcostco.
So anyway, at the end of theday, I think, like what you said

(22:58):
, for people like you or forpeople of influence to make
blanket statements aboutcompanies or about products I I
know that many know that theyhave that power, but like it's,
it's super gnarly, like I thinkyou could end.
End a company.
I know that.
That uh reviewer.
I used to watch a lot of uh,marcus um he reviews a bunch of
yeah yeah yeah, dude, he, he can.

(23:20):
He can bury a company and likeI'm like he's gonna review our
bag someday because he's a techguy and he's a huge golfer like
one of these days.

Paul (23:27):
I heard too, he's like a huge.

Sam (23:28):
He's huge in the golf now somebody told me, somebody told
me that we might have.
Yeah, but uh, dude, he's gonnareview our bag at some point
because it's a tech product inthe golf space.
Like he'll review it or he'salready seen it and he's like
I'm not gonna review it becauseI passed.

Paul (23:46):
Yeah, but like or maybe he's like, I'll wait till it's
like, better I'll give himanother year to use it and then
not review it because, like hewould not like, why would?

Sam (23:56):
he doesn't.
Maybe he doesn't feel like hisaudience wants to see it.

Paul (23:58):
You know what I mean about a golf bag.
Like probably 80 90 of thoseguys are not gonna want to watch
that video fair.

Sam (24:04):
But like if he came out and was like, oh you know, like the
solar power bank could bebetter, or like whatever, if he
gave it any any flaws, he couldgive anything a bad review and
it could just like could end acompany man, I feel like, yeah,
so anyway, those people have somuch power and I think they get

(24:25):
catered to a lot by big brandsbecause of that power.
But at the end of the day, weknow that minimal knows that our
relationships are going to bethe thing that will save us from
being treated like come on,we're not humans.
Yeah, exactly so.
Like Paul, you would never saysomething bad about minimal in

(24:46):
public because we have arelationship.
You might come to me personallyand say like hey, dude, I
thought you should have donethis with your last bag or
whatever.
You know, like you would sharethings with me.
You wouldn't badmouth us inpublic.
And I think our customers feelthat way too, for the most part
because we speak to so many ofthem.
Like we real people talk tothem.
I talk to them my phonenumber's on the checkout page,

(25:12):
like I talk to a lot of peopleand they don't even know they're
talking to me.
They're just like, oh hey, Igot a question for you guys.
And then I'm like, do, do, do,do texting back, you know.
And they're like, how does thecustomer work?

Paul (25:17):
And I'm like, oh, here's the link to the page Like do you
have any questions?
My name's.

Sam (25:23):
Well, I'm on just my phone, my phone number is just
straight there.
But I'll be like my name is SamIf you have any questions, and
they'll be like okay, thanks,sam, my name is Chris.
They don't know.
They're talking to the founder,which is totally fine, but they
are talking to a human, atminimal, and if they do have a
problem, they can talk to us nowabout that problem, whatever

(25:43):
that problem might be Shippinggets delayed or whatever oh, I
like that.

Paul (25:47):
That's the opposite.
Amazon.
They've lost so much, so muchmy stuff that I've sent in
they've lost it.
And then they're like oh, youhave to prove, I know I have to
build, like I know they receivedit right.
They go past that and they go.
You have to prove that youbought it from the manufacturer
and then send back to us.
I'm like but you received it sofrom me, so why do I have to

(26:09):
show you how I bought it?
Like it's almost that it's soillegal what they do.
And it's like do I have thattime to chase down those, those
units right to like try to getmy money back or I just write
off as a loss.

Sam (26:22):
Because, like, yeah, probably what they hope is that
you just write it off.

Paul (26:26):
Yeah just write it off.
It off Like whatever.
I don't have time, yeah, butyou just want to choke them out
Like oh, let me pass it on to mysupervisor, oh great.

Sam (26:36):
Dude, that's a really good point too.
Like the stuff you have timefor as a CEO or as a founder or
as a company owner, like how tomanage what you spend your time
on is so ridiculous.
Like I like I said I textcustomers.
Like if I get a text from acustomer right now during this

(26:57):
podcast, I'm gonna answer it andjust be like hey, I'm on a
podcast right now, I'll text youin like half an hour I never
started doing it.

Paul (27:03):
To the fuck around.
Stop, I'm gonna text you.

Sam (27:08):
I want a custom bag, please but like I, so I've placed that
as that, as one of the mostimportant things for me at this
stage in minimal's life is tocommunicate with the customer.

Paul (27:20):
Communicate with I always felt like for me, how all this
came about was so random.
Like this is, this is a hobby,right, so like I had a full
career, I had a really goodcareer and like to do something
fun is cool.
But like everyone's, like, well, I focus on a lot of different

(27:41):
things, but for me, my I feellike my biggest, what I enjoy
the most is the relationshipswith the people I've become
friends with Like I.
That's what I enjoy.
Like it has nothing to do withgolf.
Golf is just the excuse, youknow, but I met some really,
really cool people that I becomereally good friends with, right
.

Sam (27:58):
Yeah, but like I think about that, like you're, you are
you comfortable talking aboutwhy you had to like leave your
day job or like why you choseyour day job so like I'll like
lead you into it, like you werepretty unhealthy, like you were
gonna die probably yeah, I meanI, yeah, I had a heart attack
when I in 20 2020 while runningso then you're a lawyer and I

(28:22):
was lawyer and I was doing the.

Paul (28:23):
I wasn't.
I had just started the podcast,and I had just started the
podcast and I had just startedYouTube and I had the website.
I was doing all that.
See, I was a dumbass.
I always tell people this, too.
I was back to work two weekslater as if nothing happened.

Sam (28:39):
You had a heart attack and you were like, hey boss, I'll be
back as quick as I can.

Paul (28:44):
No, I didn't even care, they didn't even make me come
back.
I just felt so guilty for notbeing there.
I had quick as I can, I didn'teven care, they didn't make me
come back.
I just felt so guilty for notbeing there and I had like 50
cases.
I was running and like myclients needed me and like I
just went back to work.
It was like as if literallynothing happened, like and I was
, I feel like complete shit, butI still went back to work, dumb
, like if your body's tellingyou like yo, you need to chill
out, like that's when you needto chill out.
How?

Sam (29:04):
long did you stay as as uh?
How long did you stay a lawyerafter your heart attack?

Paul (29:10):
two more years?
How?
When was that?
Because I remember having thisconversation I practiced two
more years.
I practiced full-time for twomore years and then I I mean, I
still have my license, I canstill practice.
Right now I'm not practicing.

Sam (29:22):
So I went like I'm still a member of the bar but but you I
remember having thisconversation You're like dude,
like uh, I'm not healthy andlike I think I want to like go
full time, like doing this otherstuff.
But you were still.
You were still like lawyeringfull time and all this other
stuff on the side.
How long did you do that beforeyou were like okay, I got to
quit.

Paul (29:51):
Two years, two years.
So you had a hard time.
We're telling you.
I told brandon over a true anda couple, like a couple people,
ronnie, and they're like aboutfucking time, what are you doing
, dude?
Like like I don't even know whyyou're doing both.
I'm like I don't know because,like, one's a job and one's for
fun, you know, and then it'slike but then, but that's the
thing.
It's like I don't really.
I forget how many people I'vemet over the years.
I've met a lot of people and itonly reminds me when I go to

(30:12):
pga show and I know a lot ofpeople and they're like
everyone's like, oh, yeah, I'mgonna introduce you to paul, or
I know paul, and it's like, oh,I heard your voice, or I heard
you.
I'm like like it's so randomdude.

Sam (30:21):
I'm like, oh, let me introduce to so-and't know that
guy like well for you, so it wasabout health, like you were
gonna die, but you stayed fortwo more years, like what was
the thing that made you finallyquit?
Or like were you had you saveda bunch of money?
Were you like sitting on amillion bucks and you're like I
can quit now?
Or like why did you?

Paul (30:42):
I realized that life should work right, like I mean
personally.
I feel like with people I meanmost lawyers like to be a lawyer
because of the money, right,like that's why they do it.
And so it's like you know, themoney was good.

(31:02):
I enjoyed helping people.
I really enjoyed that a lot.
That was the best part for me.
It was like solving problemsand helping people.
I really enjoyed that a lot.
That was the best part for me.
It was like solving problemsand helping people.
But then it's like they say youdon't take it home, which you
don't, but your brain nevershuts off, right, so you're
trying to solve 50 differentpeople's problems at once, right
, like all the time, and makesure all the balls are in the
air still and we're not missingdeadlines and whatever, because

(31:23):
at the end of the day it fallson you, right?
So I left because I needed timeoff to think and I was like,
well, I'm making a little bit ofmoney from this.
At least it gives me some timeto rest, right, which I haven't
really rested?

Sam (31:35):
Yeah, but what about Emily and the kids and stuff?
How did you figure that all out?

Paul (31:40):
I mean, my wife has a job.

Sam (31:43):
But like, obviously you went from like a pretty good
income from your side, I mean Ithink like you have to take
chances right.

Paul (31:51):
Life's short Well you know , because you almost died, right
, I should have died.
It wasn't like I almost died, Ishould have died, I don't know
why I lived.
So it's like my wife did thisheart walk, like like a week ago
with her work, and like shemade so that I, like she walked
for me.
She said, and her mom whopassed away a couple years ago,

(32:16):
and she said they're like goingwith, like literature.
She said team, right, becauseshe's in management.
And she said that like I hadlike the widow maker and they
said that like if you have thewidow maker, and they said that
like if you have a widow maker,you have a 12 chance of
surviving surviving not evenlike being fucked up like death,
surviving, right.
So like I didn't even know that.
So if I was like and thenlisten to this shit, so then,

(32:40):
like she was telling me thisweekend, this is the saddest
thing, dude.
So her, her employee, um, herhusband's a lawyer too, at a big
firm and he went to bandon lastweek to play golf with his
friends.
He had a fucking heart attackat bandon and died and he was
like 42 and he has two little,two little girls.
Dude, I was like I just metthis dude, like four months ago

(33:01):
at a football game.
I was like you could be kiddingme, he's young.
I was like see, just met thisdude like four months ago at a
football game.
I was like you could be kiddingme, he's young.
I was like see that shit.
If it doesn't happen thenyou're just like a, you're at a
golf course, abandon, you'refucked.
I was lucky the hospital's onthe street.
I was in an airplane.
If I was middle of nowherecamping, there's no way.
There's no way.
And what happened?

(33:22):
Like I don't.
They say I don't know why ithappened.
They just say like oh, it'sbecause it's hereditary.
When they can't figure out why,they say it's hereditary
bullshit.

Sam (33:31):
So but yeah, but you were also working like you just said,
like you're managing like 60things at once and trying to
keep all the balls in the airlike how much healthier is your
heart?
Or like how much longer are yougoing to live now?
Are you still all stressed outall the time?
Are you like better because youswitched, or?

Paul (33:51):
Yeah, because I think, like I think when you run a
business, you know well, whenyou're a lawyer, you're too busy
trying to solve everyone else'sproblems, right, and you don't
know if it's going to work ornot.
If it doesn't work it's yourfault.
And like, if it does work,they're still pissed off because
it costs them a lot of money,right?
So, like, essentially you,there's no winning as a lawyer,

(34:11):
right?
I mean, like, if you thinkabout it, so, yeah, winning is
just like they.

Sam (34:15):
They paid you, you should do your job, and then that's
what yeah.

Paul (34:20):
So if you lose, they're pissed, if you win, they're.
And then you got to watch outfor the other side, right?
Because like they're going tobe pissed the whole time.
So for me, I always try to like, so it's just like there's no
winning, like we should win.
So I feel like now I cancontrol what I can control,
which is mine and not someoneelse's times 50 or whatever.

(34:44):
Yeah, how much longer do youthink you're gonna be a founder,
though?
Because now you have to likeyou have to worry about
everything, right?
I mean, I know you don't.
You've like the most best dayin the whole wide world, like
you get up, you surf, which islike your zen moment, and then

(35:04):
you go and work, you do your day, but you're like you're clear,
you're ready to go.
Like that's at least what youwere when I was with you, but
that's the hardest thing, likeyou, have balance.
That's the hardest thing ishaving the balance right.

Sam (35:16):
Well, I think like I started minimal because, um, so
in 2015 I stopped.
2014, I stopped playingfull-time, stopped competing
full-time, and I took a job tohelp launch 18 birdies app,
which at that time wasn't evenin the app store, and I worked

(35:36):
super closely with the CEO andfounder for like six months and
was like this is so cool.
I was like determining.
We were together, likedetermining what was going to be
in the app and I was yeah, itwas a lot of fun.
And then in early when the applaunched, there was like a ton
of like very much kind oftedious work to do.

(35:57):
Once the design or like theconceptual understanding what
the app was going to be was done, there was a bunch of work to
do and I spent the next like sixto maybe nine months doing that
and it.
There were still some of thosemoments which I really enjoyed,
but most of the time I was justlike very exhausted and tired

(36:18):
and filling out spreadsheets andblah, blah, blah and I wasn't
happy, I wasn't competing and Iwas tired and I was like all
right, a bunch of differentthings.
And Eddie and I the founder of18 birdies had a really good
conversation and he was like Sam, take some time away, figure
out how to stay involved with 18birdies.
But like take, take a month offand let's talk about it in like

(36:41):
a month or something.
I was like okay, but I I knewthat day that like I wasn't
going to go back to 18 birdiesin the capacity that I was
before and since then I've beenreally close with them and I've
been a part of every coachingprogram that they've done and
all their lessons and all theirstuff.
But it I left 18 birdiesknowing like okay, I don't want

(37:03):
to have this kind of job everagain, where I'm like stressed
dude, I had like gray hairs in2015 that I don't have anymore.
It's, it's.
It's pretty crazy.

Paul (37:15):
Like you don't get here you look at Sandy, it looks like
he's like he colors his hair,but he doesn't just saying that.

Sam (37:21):
But I in in 2000, I was like more overweight than I
wanted to be and I had gray hairand I wasn't playing golf and I
wasn't happy and I left 18Birdies.

Paul (37:35):
Again, it's not 18 Birdies' fault, but it's sort of
like that was the time.

Sam (37:36):
Oh, it's the stress and doing all that stuff, yeah.
And then I moved to Puerto Ricoactually the next year and, uh,
was just doing my onlinecoaching, like making content,
creating courses, where I wouldwork like once a month create a
course, put it online, sell it,um, and then the rest of the
month it was just like emailsback and forth with people who
had questions about the videosonline.

Paul (37:56):
yeah, but see, like you, you dismissed that shit.
Like like, oh yeah, yeah, bro,that one video we did together,
like sam's last golf lesson, haslike a bajillion views and like
, if you read all those comments, they're all asking when is sam
coming back.
Sam is the best, that's so nicelook at that video.
It's there, I swear to god.
I get to do shit for like ayear and now it's like 10 or 15

(38:16):
000 views.
But everyone's like, oh, I lovesam's content, I miss sam sam,
sam sam, you suck paul.
Sam, sam, sam sam, I swear togod.

Sam (38:26):
Well, that was I mean that I should read these comments.

Paul (38:30):
This would be like like you know, like the bad tweets.
This should be like um, I'msure there's plenty of hate in
there too like that's just inembedded in the online.

Sam (38:43):
Put yourself out there.
Situation talking abouteveryone's a everybody's super
nice online oh yeah, that's sotrue uh, but no, I mean yeah,
that that was my career, youknow for like from 2009 to 2004
till I started 18 birdies, all Idid was create content online

(39:05):
and I did you know at that timethat that is what afforded me to
be able to move to puerto ricoand not work, and be able to
leave 18 birdies and be okay andcomfortable, and I knew that I
could keep, continue to createcontent that was valuable, that
golfers wanted to see, andthat's what I looks like
michael's watching us right nowah why that's so nice, michael.

(39:30):
Uh, but yeah, that was part ofwhat I uh, that was part of my
life, that was a big part of mylife was creating all that
content.

Paul (39:37):
But when I moved to puerto rico and and I sort of like all
the time and played golf with areally nice golf course.

Sam (39:43):
Seems awesome, right, but after about six months of that I
was really down dude.
I was like pretty depressed andmiserable and it doesn't make
any sense.
But I found myself just likehad no passion, no drive,
literally like I watched all ofNetflix, I just like did nothing
.

Paul (40:03):
Even the bad ones, like the D level movies that nobody
wants to watch.

Sam (40:07):
Yes, I watched the end to the end of Netflix and I was
just like really, really bored.
I tried to learn the ukulele.
I was just like anything to dowith my life.

Paul (40:17):
You know, I like couldn't find anything to be passionate
about You're still in PuertoRico or you in El Porto.

Sam (40:23):
I was in Puerto Rico, then Rico, then and, and during that
time in living in Puerto Rico,there was a big hurricane and so
I left because the power wentout.
Um, at the resort ukulele, Ihad a ukulele.
I didn't bring it with me but,I, like basically, like this
huge hurricane happened and Iwas like, all right, I'll go

(40:44):
teach around, go teach aroundthe country for however long it
takes for the power to come backon.
So I went and did lessons in NewYork and New Jersey and all
over and California, st Louis,chicago, and after like a month
I went back to Puerto Rico andit was still bad.
The power was still outeverywhere.
I remember that it was reallybad, like the power was still

(41:05):
out everywhere.
I remember that it was reallybad, like it was six months of
of that.
And uh, and the other thing thathappened is I went back to
Puerto Rico and I was like damn,like this, this isn't like I
had moved there after playinggolf full time and working for
18 birdies and I didn't reallyhave a strong friend group after
playing golf full time andworking for 18 birdies and I
didn't really have a strongfriend group.
But when I moved to Puerto Rico, I made friends and I like kind

(41:27):
of, like you were sayingearlier, like I generated some
relationships that I neverreally hadn't experienced in a
really long time and I madefriends, you know, and so I had
these people I hung out withevery single day and I saw every
single day, and then, after thehurricane, everybody left every
single day and then after.
The hurricane, everybody left,like everybody who was of

(41:47):
working age left the island togo get jobs, because nobody, you
know, could afford not to havea job.
So everybody leaves Puerto Rico.
And then I come back after amonth and like everybody's gone
and I'm alone and I'm like holyshit, like this I can't.
I just like can't do thisanymore, like I can't, I don't

(42:08):
want to be alone here on thisisland by myself.
I want, I want my friends.
So some stuff shifted there andI decided I met a guy in New
York when I was coaching aclinic and I had some friends in
LA still.
So I was like all right, I'mgoing to move to LA, I'm going
to help this guy.
I'm at New York, I'm going tocoach him and move to his
neighborhood, manhattan beach.

(42:28):
I'm going to coach him for sixmonths and then I'll figure it
out.
And there's a big bunch ofstuff in the middle there.
But ultimately I had the ideafor the golf bag.
While I was coaching, thatstudent of mine told him about
the golf bag idea and he waslike dude, this is a great idea,
I think you should do it.

(42:48):
And uh, one of those momentswhere somebody who knows their
shit says you could do this, itcould be successful.
Um, that guy was, uh, hadstarted and now it's like a
crazy successful distressed debtum part of his firm.
So they buy, they helpcompanies that are like going
out of, out of business, likecan't make it, help them
restructure, get them back alive, and then they make a bunch of

(43:10):
money doing it.
So that was his job.
He would look at companies whowere dying and try to bring,
decide if they should invest inthem to bring them back to life
or not.
So when he told me, like this isa good idea, I was like, oh
okay, it's kind of like my GMtelling me you could be PGA
teacher of the year.
This is a smart guy who knowsabout this stuff.
So I was like, all right, I, Icould start this company.

(43:31):
That was kind of like probablythe biggest thing.
But the second thing was I'dbeen I'd been like jobless and
had enough money before you knowlike I'd been living in Puerto
Rico on an island, surfing everyday, golfing, golfing every day
, had everything I needed, butwasn't happy, and so I started
minimal, knowing that this wasgoing to be a challenge and it

(43:53):
wasn't the easiest way to makemoney, but I wanted to do it.
Like I wanted the challenge andlike you know, paul, if anybody
wants to make the most moneypossible, don't make physical
products that ship all over theworld.
Make digital content that addsvalue to people's lives and sell
it in a membership course.

(44:13):
Like it's the easiest way tomake money.
And if you don't care about whatyou're making, then just do a
Google search what do peopleneed?
And you can make a businessthat that is a lot easier to run
than a physical productbusiness and you'll you can make
a business that that is a loteasier to run than a physical
product business.
But I started minimal becausefor two reasons.
One, I had this insight fromthis guy who said this could
work, should work, will work,and then I also just wanted to

(44:35):
do it like I wanted a job andwhen I was at your apartment.

Paul (44:40):
I remember seeing the original sketches.
Like you had the originalsketches in your apartment, like
, didn't you?
You were in the refrigerator,didn't you?

Sam (44:48):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know where they are.
Now I think shit, I don't knowwhere they are.

Paul (44:54):
But they're.
I thought it was so cool to seethat it was like a little kid
drawing.
No offense, but like it waslike the idea.
I remember it was in thebathroom or somewhere.

Sam (45:03):
It was like some of you wouldn't even know it was on
that cork board.

Paul (45:06):
It was on that mirror.

Sam (45:08):
Yeah, next to the mirror, yeah, yeah, and all my stupid
affirmation notes next to it.

Paul (45:14):
Sam, you're good enough, you're smart enough.

Sam (45:17):
People like you.

Paul (45:18):
People like your hair A lot of that dude.

Sam (45:20):
There was a lot of that dude, there was a lot of that.
Because I think, like in any ofthose moments, I've learned
that from golf like it's a lotof losing in golf.

Paul (45:28):
All you do is lose in golf like it's only one winner,
right so business, though like Ijust get pissed off when, like
people competitors will be like,oh, we're beating you, blah,
blah, blah.
And I'm like, I'm not competingwith you, dude, I don't give a
fucking shit what you're doing.
And like, if I was doing onething, I'd probably be really,
really good at it.
Right, like, but I'm doingmultiple things and like I don't

(45:51):
tell you.
Like, yeah, you're beating menow, but the storms are coming.
Yeah, that's weird, that's areally I don't know why that's
in us as humans.

Sam (45:58):
But I do think it's in us to compare and then if we
compare we naturally want tocompete.
But I mean for me, I had onegoal that was like outside of
everybody else when I wasplaying golf, and that was to
win the US Open.
So I didn't really like competewith other people, I just
competed with myself.
Can I be good enough to win a?

(46:20):
US.

Sam (46:20):
Open was like the one question that drove me to do
everything I did for nine yearsstraight.
And when it comes to the bags,it's pretty similar.
It's like I mean I love thecompetitors in our industry.
I think I took a ton ofinspiration from Stitch, though
I think like, yeah, we made adifferent bag from Stitch, but I

(46:40):
like what Stitch did for whothey did it for.
I think it's a valuable thingin the marketplace.
I love vessel for their premiumquality and their like luxury
shit, like dude luxury golf bags.

Paul (46:53):
They're so sick premium golf bags no one no one can
compete with vessel when itcomes to premium what's so cool
about vessel, though, is likethey're not just doing golf bags
.

Sam (47:05):
No, this is another thing almost nobody knows they have so
much cool shit the coolest bagthat I ever got from Bessel.
One of the reasons that thematerial on the very first
minimal bag.
I used this duffel bag that Igot when I played in a golf
tournament.
It was a tea gift, it was avessel duffel bag that was also
like uh, um, what are thosethings called suits?

(47:28):
oh, like it's overnight bag oroh whatever, yeah, like those
suits that you like, you canhang your suit and it's like a
thing, and that rolled up nicefreaking shit.

Paul (47:37):
I was on the website the other day and I was like you
guys make like I like I wastalking to justin over there and
I was like I think you guysmade freaking travel bags like I
never got was talking to justinover there and I was like I
didn't think you guys madefreaking travel bags like I
never got one.
I never seen that.
I would have reviewed one, butlike it's two of them, I was
like and they make pickleballbags.
Now they make pickleball stuff,they make tenants, they're so
good collab is really reallysick, like anyway.

Sam (47:59):
So I mean it's so easy to just like look at your
competitors and see why they'resuccessful and love them for
that, and then I think if youcan do that, then it allows you
to like eliminate that as anissue in your brain.
Now you can just focus onwhat's going to make you the
best.
So for me in golf it was like Iwant to win the US Open.
I don't have to hit it thefarthest to win the US Open, but

(48:20):
I do have to be able to findfairways, I do have to have
pinpoint accuracy with my ironsand I have to be a master
strategist.
So those are the criticalthings I have to do to be the
best to win the US Open.
I don't have to think aboutanybody else and when it comes
to the bag, it's like I don'thave to worry about Vessel,
Vessel, love Vessel.

(48:50):
They're great, They're're not acompetitor, they're in their
own world trying to do theirthing the best.
And because I'm not beingworried about competing with
them, it allows me to just focuson what we want to do and and I
think I mean I think that's athe healthiest I've ever felt
about the industry.
I remember like pretty early on,I'd be like looking at
Instagram and I would see peoplelike using another bag and I'd
be like, dude, why are theyusing that bag?
Like they know minimal exists,why would they it like hurt to

(49:13):
see somebody using somebodyelse's bag?
And then it was like, oh, thatthat our bag just isn't for them
.
Like that's okay.
Like doesn't mean our bag's bad, it just means they don't want
to use our bag, which is like,completely fine, Our bag is for
a certain kind of golfer.
That resonates with, like thementality that I have kind of,

(49:35):
and that's it.
Like we're going to be.

Paul (49:39):
If you've thought so much outside the box, like you're
still doing things that no oneelse is doing after five years,
right, yeah, I mean I think isanybody copying you right now in
terms of like a tech pack?
I mean I know there was batterybags out there before that, but
that yours wasn't yours makinga tech bag that you could film

(49:59):
yourself with you know, like thewhole.
Well, like I gave you that,list the other day.

Sam (50:03):
There's like seven things that a minimal golf, that
minimal golf does.
That no other golf bag companydoes and most of it you could
find in other industries.
Like we don't make anything outof not recycled material, so
like other companies make thatwhat bag that start with, though
, because that's that's not withmr2, mr1, mr1.

Paul (50:22):
What about the other?
Mv2, mv2 mv2.

Sam (50:24):
We couldn't hit the minimum order quantity in order to get
okay.
I remember that because it'sjust gnarly you have to order so
many because nobody yeah a lotof the thing, especially when
you're buying golf bags.

Paul (50:34):
Imagine that, right like you're gonna go to, you're going
to a hard goods and they're notcheap and they take a lot of
space.
Right like they're not ballmarkers.

Sam (50:44):
Well, in our bag too, like our bag, the way it is landed is
171 or 174 dollars.

Paul (50:50):
Well, now it's going to be more because of these tariffs,
but as they go through, that's,if they go like I was doing some
of the day, like now, likeeurope is backing down, they're
like oh, we'll, we're sorry,yeah, so maybe I mean maybe, but
like indonesia, like the mostgreatest, nicest people on the
planet, like if you've ever beento indonesia, like indonesian

(51:13):
people are so kind literally,when they say thank you, they
don't say thank you they sayplease accept my love, that the,
the language.

Sam (51:23):
Uh, it's like I, it's like I'm not going to say it Cause
I'll get it wrong, cause it'sbeen a long time since I've been
to Indonesia, but when whenthey're like when they give you
your coffee they don't say likehere and like like thank you.
Like they say please accept mylove.
It's like they're the nicestpeople ever.
Anyway, the tariff now withIndonesia, we just went went

(51:49):
from 17 to percent.
I think it was 17 to 37 percent.

Paul (51:50):
So our bags are going to cost that much more money when
they get to the us, but whateverthis is could be a stupid
conversation a year from now andit's so interesting though too,
though, because, like I know, alot of people are shitting
their pants like a lot of brandshave very tight margins, right
especially we do yeah.
I mean like yeah, I'm sayinglike you have a tight margin 20
less.
Now that's a lot of money.
You know that adds up quick.

Sam (52:11):
Well, we don't even have 20 to get with where our margin's
15, and that's like in a perfectworld.
So, with no advertising, nopaid marketing, no paid
influencers.
We don't even give you freebags, paul, like literally, but
like you don't need a bag anyway, hey, I'm gonna send this bag.

Paul (52:31):
It's a one-on-one and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it
shows up.
It really is.
It's like the one bag.
It still has the tag on itsaying sample, like he's like.
He's like, when you're donetaking pictures of it, look at
it, review it, mail it out forme, yeah for real.
I was like okay, I did I gotout like the next day or a
couple days later like thinkabout that, though.

Sam (52:52):
like we, we talked to other reviewers who are like dude, I
have 25 bags in my garage andI'm like, why do you have 25
bags in your garage?
And they're like oh, every,every time a company makes a new
bag, they send me, me anotherone, and I'm like that's so
wasteful.

Paul (53:07):
Like why are they just sitting in your bag?
I just give everything away.
Like I will do a giveaway orI'll give it away to people, or
like you know what I mean, likeI don't need all that shit.

Sam (53:15):
It's tough, that's good.

Paul (53:28):
I mean, I think if you can make that deal with the company
, hey look, I'll do a giveawaywith this bag after I review it.
I think that's good, yeah, oryou guys pay for the shipping
and we'll do a giveaway.
Just give me the label, youknow, and I'll take care of it.
Like I would rather see someoneelse use the bag personally,
like that would enjoy it as muchas I've enjoyed the bags I've
gotten over the years.
Like I don't know.
Yeah, that's how it should be,I think.

Sam (53:40):
But anyway, we, yeah, we shipped you one and you shipped
it to another person to reviewit and they shipped it to
another person to review it.
Literally, this one bag isgoing to go to eight reviewers,
rather than eight bags to eightdifferent reviewers.

Paul (53:54):
Yeah, times 200 a bag plus another $100 in shipping, right
?
So whatever that's $3,000 thatyou would have to spend.

Sam (54:03):
So if we spent that money, this is what I don't think
customers understand If we spentthat money we would increase
the price of the bag to thecustomer to cover that cost.

Paul (54:13):
Go to the customer.
It's not like there's.

Sam (54:18):
I don't think people understand.
I never understood where theprice of a product came from.
I would hear things like oh, itcost two dollars to make a
t-shirt, but they're fortydollars on the website and I'm
like why are they forty dollars?
They only cost two dollars tomake.
And I couldn't.
I didn't understand where allof that money went, from two to

(54:39):
forty, and now I do.

Paul (54:41):
Can I ask you a question?
Yeah, ask you your question.
All right in your head.
I've heard some two ceos in thelast year.
The first time I heard I waslike, oh, that's fucking
bullshit.
Then I heard again, like twoweeks ago, and I was like, oh,
maybe something to this, like doyou have a multiplier?
So, like you go, okay, it'sblank times x is what I need to

(55:01):
make on that.
You know what I mean, and notin terms of profit, that's just
so you can work off that number.
Let's say it costs $1.
You're like, okay, I got tosell it for $5.
And then it's like, oh, but itonly costs you $1.
Yeah, but you still got to pay.
The people pay the shipping,pay this, do the advertising?

(55:22):
I'm not just using easy math.
Is there?
Do you do that as a, as afounder?
Like, do you have to do amultiplier?
So you know exactly, like,where the margin falls.

Sam (55:33):
Cause then the tariff after everything up, because you got
to add another 20% and you'relike, okay, great, well that
means that now thing it's aseven dollar thing, right, so
we've always made about fortydollars on a golf bag.
Sometimes we lose money becausewe have them longer than we
expect to have them and we payto warehouse them, right?

(55:53):
So the easiest way for me toexplain it is like these things
are a hundred dollars.
Um, if I bought them?

Paul (56:00):
for now.
Those are a piece of shit.
They lasted like 20 minutes.
I'm gonna get rid of them.

Sam (56:03):
I know it's so sad we're not going to open the case
because it could cause problems,but these things are 100 right.
They probably cost under 10 tomake right.
I'm pretty sure they're underlike four dollars to me, yeah,
or something.
So let's say I bought these forfour dollars.
Let's say I paid the factoryfour dollars for these but I
have to pay rent $1,000 a monthto sit these on the shelf at my

(56:26):
club and they take up one 10thof that space, so it's $100.
So I'm already negative fourbucks.
If I sell them for a hundredbucks I have to have, like,
these things cost me money tohold.
So I think what one of thethings I didn't understand in
the past is that, like, if webuy the bag, $175, landed cost
$175 what a bad cost.

(56:48):
The second I take it off thetruck, it cost me more money
because I paid five people, fiveof our staff, to take it off
the truck so now it went up to$171.50, and then, when I put it
in the store now or when I putit in the back of the club, you
know where we store the bags.

Paul (57:05):
I know, yeah, I know.

Sam (57:06):
Now that space, them staying there, me paying rent on
that space makes these bagscost more overtime.
Every day, every day, they'rethere.
So when you over order onaccident, you under.
It's not really an accident.

Paul (57:20):
I mean really, it's not because you do based on.
I mean.
But it's that's the shitty partthat no one tells you like, hey
, you think you're gonna get toomany sales, and then something
f's it all up and then you don'tget the sales because the
website's crap or like we weresupposed to be on the um.

Sam (57:41):
We were supposed to be in a Super Bowl ad.
Minimal was going to be in aSuper Bowl ad.
For what?
In my head it was for anothercompany who was going to run a
Super Bowl ad and we were like afeatured story for that company
.

Paul (57:55):
Oh yeah, I remember this yeah.

Sam (57:58):
So in my head We'll call it Brand X.
Brand X is like, hey, minimal,we want to feature you in this
commercial because you use ourproduct.
We'll fuck up everything in theprocess.
So in the meantime I'm like, ohmy God, what's happening?
We're going to sell a thousandbags in a day if we're in a
Super Bowl commercial.

(58:18):
We've never had that exposure.
So I'm taking like 10,000 peoplecoming to our website every
week.
I'm like, ok, take that times,it's a million, take that times
100, you know.
And it's like, okay, 100.
We're selling 10 bags a daywith 10,000 people coming to our
website times 100.
Oh my God, we're going to sell1,000 bags a day.

(58:39):
I don't even order 1,000 bagsat a time.
I need to call the factory andorder 3000 bags.
So that's what I did and I got3000 bags, and that company X
didn't run a Superbowlcommercial.
So not only did I get all 3000of those bags within like three
weeks of each other, which Iknow why the factory did it but

(59:00):
that wasn't the plan.
The plan was to get 750, 750,750, 750 chinese new year, all
kinds of stuff.
Plus, when a factory puts bagson the line, they want to make
them all and ship them allthey're gonna run it.
Yeah, they don't want to dolike, they don't want to get
them all done exactly so anyway,but do 171 times 3000, and

(59:24):
that's how much money we owedthe factory that day.
So it was like holy shit, okay,that's fine, the super bowl
commercial is going to come out.
Oh, it's not coming out.
Oh shit, and so?

Paul (59:35):
we had to decide not to do this commercial.
They would tell you they'rejust like sorry, yeah, dude it
was you remember it, company?
X, I remember, I'm not gonnasay like I think 10 000
employees they lost.

Sam (59:43):
They were say who it was.
They lost, I think, 10,000employees.
They were losing money.
It was just a weird time intheir industry and they lost a
bunch of money and so theydecided to cut their Super Bowl
so we fucking nearly died.
Thank God, our factory isamazing, but this is the kind of
stuff that's like I don't dothat in school no way.
And I don't do that in schoolno way.
And you have to make this betand I would say probably 80% of

(01:00:07):
the bets I make I'm gettingsmart about not making bets that
could kill us but 80% of thebets I make they don't pan out,
but the ones that do are theones that you keep moving on.
If you don't make any bets,you're not at the table.

Paul (01:00:25):
You're not in business if you don't make any bets.
You're not at the table.

Sam (01:00:27):
You know you're not in business if you don't place any
bets.
Yeah, you're, whatever.
So.
So anyway, it's constantlyplacing bets that you have to be
accepting that they're not.
It's like golf, dude.
It's like you.
You, you tee off and like you,you're hoping that you make a
birdie, but like you have to beable to accept if you make a par
or worse, because there'sanother hole right behind it and
you have to try to make abirdie on that one.

(01:00:48):
Also, you can't get caught upin the loss of the bogey from
the previous hole.

Paul (01:00:51):
So I like talking to an athlete lately who just retired
and he was telling me he goes.
He's like when they don't getinsurance, he's like I've messed
up something, like I'm done,I'm out, I'm out, you know.

(01:01:12):
So you're hoping to make thatmoney in that time when you're
not hurt, right, or you make itto the big, maybe made to the
show, because the big leaguesdoesn't mean jack shit.

Sam (01:01:20):
I mean making good money, right, we're not making like
crazy money but you gotta knowlike, or you've got to be able
to pivot.
If, when your body no longercan perform, you've got to be
able to like, use, whatever youare, 20 years of life to become
elite, you got to be able to usethat somewhere else or have

(01:01:40):
saved a lot of money you know, Itold him because he's like I
was telling this guy.

Paul (01:01:43):
He's like, so I'm like, yeah, but if anything, dude, I
feel like athletes have a hugeadvantage because you've trained
and you've been so focused onwhatever that thing was for so
long.
You, you know, like you're atthe one percent of people right,
like so whenever you figure outwhat that one thing is, you are
going to exceed at it becauseyou have you've done that your

(01:02:03):
whole life on something else.
So, like most people even knowwhat the hell that even is and
I'm like just finding that thingor things right because you
have the work ethic, you'regonna be able to put it in there
I think that's.

Sam (01:02:14):
It's so crazy man.
I don't know, like myphilosophy on like, why we exist
here on this planet.
It's probably the matrixanother podcast but like yeah,
it's the matrix, but like the,the, you know the people who
want to.
It's so weird like I rememberasking this friend of mine like

(01:02:35):
15 years ago.
I was like why, what?
What's the one thing you woulddo every day if you didn't have
a job?
and she's she was a really goodfriend at the time and I was
giving her golf lessons and shewas really burnt out at her job
and I was like just quit yourjob and you can do whatever you
want, like I did, and it's finefor me, and she was like I don't

(01:03:02):
know, like I don't know whatthat is, that every human has
the one thing that they would doevery day if they could quit
their job.

(01:03:12):
I don't know Some people don't like.

Sam (01:03:15):
It's just like.
My brain is like oh, I see thisthing, I want it to be amazing
and nothing's going to stop meuntil it's amazing, and then
that's it, like everything else,just like get out of my way.
Like the other day, like Paul, Irebuilt my website
samwoolengolfcom.
I rebuilt it literallyeverything.
It's not live yet, but fromstart to finish, like from

(01:03:40):
nothing to every course, I'veever made every video on every
course, every productdescription, every product
linking to a course, to a thing,to a membership that you can
buy and you can download.
I redid the whole thing onSaturday and I was surfing
Saturday.
Did you sell it on WordPress?
I'm going to shift it fromWordPress to Shopify Because

(01:04:02):
Shopify finally happened.
Did you get rid of?

Paul (01:04:03):
your guy.
You had a guy that was managingit for you.
Remember that one?
Yeah, Nitesh.

Sam (01:04:08):
Yeah, no.
Nitesh was really reallyhelpful for a while, but I can
do it all myself on Shopify.

Paul (01:04:14):
Dude, shopify sucks because they nickel and dime the
shit out of you, but, dude, itjust works.
Man, it just works.
And, trust me, I had aWordPress site WordPress breaks
down all the time.
There's always updates.
It breaks down all the time.
It breaks up all the time, likethen they try to say, oh,
wordpress, e-com is just as goodas Shopify Bullshit.
Let me tell you that that'swhat the fuck they're talking

(01:04:35):
about.
They're just trying to sell youon WordPress, because all they
know Straight up, straight up.

Sam (01:04:40):
Well, and it is true, like shopify does own you once you
get into their network.

Paul (01:04:44):
They want you to use wordpress.
All this it's free of from, andyou gotta buy how many plugins,
right?

Sam (01:04:50):
all of them and then shit breaks, and then the plugins get
updated and your server can nolonger fuck.
But what I was gonna say is onsaturday, saturday morning I
started working on a fridaynight, saturday morning we were
surfing and all of our friendswere like we're going to go to
brunch at this place and I waslike, oh sick, I was going to

(01:05:12):
build my website today and so Ijust why are you doing that
right now?

Paul (01:05:18):
What did you say?
Why are you doing that rightnow?
Are you rehashing Sam GoldenGolf?
Because you've done shit onthat in like five years?
Because quote you made yourlast YouTube video with me three
years ago.

Sam (01:05:33):
Okay, it's true, I haven't posted a YouTube video in five
years.
About once a week someonewrites me and says hey, sam, I
miss your content, blah, blah,blah.
And I'm like well, I don't knowwhat to tell you.
I made every video I'm evergoing to make Like I.
There's 600 videos, dude Like,plus the all the 18 birdies
videos Plus.
I made what videos I've madelike over 1200 probably videos

(01:05:57):
in that time and I don't haveanything else to say, so I
literally said that to this guythe other day.
He was like hey, sam, reallymiss your content on YouTube.
And I wrote him and I was likedude, thank you, like I.
He's like Are you ever gonnapost again?
And I was like I kind of feellike I've said everything I need
to say on YouTube, you know.

(01:06:18):
And he's like he's like yeah,you know, I hear that, but I'm a
baseball coach and I know thatover time, even though I might
not have learned new things,I've gotten better at explaining
those things.
And he's like I bet you'rebetter now at explaining.

Paul (01:06:34):
You're like son of a bitch .

Sam (01:06:38):
Yeah.

Paul (01:06:38):
It's true.

Sam (01:06:39):
It's true, he's right.

Paul (01:06:41):
I'm five years older and ten years older than 2015, when
I published that I remember yougave me that one lesson and we
were effing around for a halfhour at the club and then we
recorded that was your quoteunquote, last lesson, and like
it was terribly shot because Iknow I was doing it back then.
But like I know I can't believehow many views it's got.

(01:07:02):
Number two my dad's even likethat.
My dad, even a couple years ago, was like that's a really good
video.
I'm going to do what Sam says.
It really does work.

Sam (01:07:09):
And I was like god damn it, it's good.
The reality is like so thathappened and I'm like, yeah, but
I did that Kind of like I knowhow to make a YouTube channel.
Like that's not my focus rightnow, I want to focus on minimal.

(01:07:30):
But yeah, but why don't you doa youtube channel for minimal
then?
So then we're getting there.
so then I somebody texted methey're like hey, sam, like I
had a question about the backand I was like, oh cool, yeah,
here's your answer.
I was like, by the way, how'dyou hear about us?
And he's like, oh, I saw sam ona on a youtube video and I was
like, oh really.
And he's like, yeah, ericcagorno.

Paul (01:07:42):
And I was like oh yeah, I had Eric on the show.
Eric, cool shit yeah, eric'sgreat, we talked about you.

Sam (01:07:50):
I'm sure, uh, I'm sure.
No, it was all good we don'tknow you, we're like talking so
Eric made a video with me.
I on youtube now and he's hasproducts with uh performance
call and he did a video and heat the end of the video he was

(01:08:11):
like tell me about this bag.
And I was like, oh, the bag,this is like b1.
And this guy three days ago waslike or four days ago, friday,
when I decided to do this, waslike I saw your bag on a youtube
video and I was like, all right, everybody wants me to make

(01:08:31):
youtube videos again.
I am better now than I was then.
I do understand more now than Idid then.
It could be helpful to minimalthe company.
It would be helpful to the clubthat we have minimal golf club
and um, and it would yeah,that's it like people want me to
do it.
I I can do a better job than Ihad done in the past.

Paul (01:08:52):
It would be helpful now so you have better sims and if you
want to do in the same I have,my own club.

Sam (01:08:57):
I can film in the morning before we open or whatever like
fortnight, yeah, so for a lot ofreasons it's time to uh, to
relaunch sam golden golfcom yeah, but you're like the og of
freaking youtube dude.

Paul (01:09:11):
I mean I bet you a million bucks if you had not quit
youtube.
I should have like one or twomillion subs easily, maybe three
.

Sam (01:09:17):
You probably make a book I mean, I had 10 000 subscribers
in 2015, like I had no idea whatI was sitting on, but I didn't
know.
I knew I wasn't passionateabout it.
No, it was fun.

Paul (01:09:32):
You didn't enjoy it, so why do it?

Sam (01:09:36):
But now it's not necessarily about that.
It's about giving an audiencewhat they're craving.
And also I can do better.
Again, it's like the golf bag.
And also like I can do better.
Again, it's like the golf bag.
It's like V1 was V1, v2destroyed V1.
Mr1 destroys MV2.
And MR2 is like a modified MR1,but it still destroys MR1.

(01:09:58):
And features, like I wasbeginning to say earlier, like
there's seven things that we dothat our bag does, that no other
golf bag or no other golfcompany does.
So all of those things need toexist, I think.
And because they need to exist,I feel like I have to do it.
It's like when my pro, the GM,said you could be PGA teacher of
the year, and then I was like,oh, if I could be.

(01:10:19):
Well, now I have to be like, Ihave to try it and it doesn't
mean I'll get to the end.
I stopped coaching.
I like I not stopped coaching.
I'll always coach.
But I stopped wanting to be PGAteacher of the year and in 2006
or seven, when I startedwanting to compete and I stopped
wanting to win the US Open in2014, when I started working for

(01:10:41):
18 birdies and um, yeah, allthose things you know can change
and our lives change, but whenit comes to like this youtube
channel, um yeah.
I just feel like I have to do itlike because I can and because
it needs to be done.
It's not as good as it could be, so it needs to be better.

Paul (01:11:00):
I do like your new site looks.
It looks way no no, no.
You're looking at.
No, I'm at minimal site ohminimal man who helped tell you
guys what that theme should havebeen.
That was a smart person.

Sam (01:11:16):
That site looks so much better than I mean.
That's another thing.
Your website has to change allthe time.
You have to update, upgrade,modify, improve.
Not only that every time youcome out with a new product, you
have to update everything Redo,everything New, everything.
New, everything.
It's crazy.

Paul (01:11:37):
So when's MR2 coming out?

Sam (01:11:39):
We've been on this.
Mr2 is coming out in any daynow 15 minutes.
It's coming out in.
It comes out April 21st.
It will be live for everybodyelse to get.
Your audience is going to getpreview.
Your audience is going to getlike a pre-order.
You'll get it.

(01:11:59):
You'll be able to publish thatto your audience first, but
we'll have bags in hand on the21st of April, so that's when it
will officially be live.

Paul (01:12:11):
Are you going to like?
I mean, I know when's theofficial like, so wait, the 21st
is when the you can buy them, Iguess, yeah.

Sam (01:12:22):
But what's happening right now is anybody who buys mr1 is
getting upgraded to mr2 if theybuy black, because we're out of
black mr1s.
So a hundred people are goingto get mr2s that just bought
mr1s.
So somehow somebody hears thisbefore april 21st and you buy
mr1 at mr1 pricing, you can getthe price difference in mr1 mr2

(01:12:45):
well, funny, you should askbecause they're landing after
april, for 13th, our, our importduties are going to be higher,
like that's.
That's really going to be a billfor us, like literally, if the
bags would have landed beforeapril 15 it would have been 17,
but because they're landingafter April 14th, they're going
to be 37%.

(01:13:06):
So I have to figure out whatthat is.
But you asked me earlier abouta multiplier.
We don't work that direction,we work the other way.
So we take the entire cost ofthe bag, what it costs to
warehouse it, what it costs topay Campbell and me and Nicole
and everybody else.
Not that I get paid all thetime Very rarely actually, but
we put all of that intoconsideration and then we add 45

(01:13:29):
bucks.
Basically, it works sometimesand it sometimes doesn't,
because, like I said, sometimeswe have bags for longer than we
expect and then that $45 doesn'tcover us and we're in a deficit
If we sell a thousand bags andone can't go up.

Paul (01:13:45):
And all of a sudden I because that was not part of the
equation when you did to theoriginal map yeah, but yeah, our
, our number is so differentmost e-commerce brands are
spending 30 50 percent in justmarketing.

Sam (01:13:57):
So, um, but our cost is like 3x, like I I told you
earlier I probably shouldn'thave said what it costs, but a
bag typical golf bag is under$50 to make Most golf bags.
Nylon golf bags are in the $30range.
So 38 bucks maybe.
If you're making out of PU likea fake leather, it's going to
be in the 40s.

(01:14:18):
If you're making like a premiumbag, it's going to be more than
that, considerably more thanthat.
If you're making like a premiumbag, it's going to be more than
that, considerably more thanthat.
And if you're making a bag withrecycled materials and all
magnets instead of zippers, it'sgoing to be 150 bucks.
It's going to be 3x 4x mostbags, but 3x most premium bags
or close to premium bags.
So our bags cost so much moreat the beginning can't put 30

(01:14:46):
marketing dollars on top of thatand be like, okay, now then pay
a sales rep, then pay press pr,then pay ambassadors, like we
couldn't pay all that.
If we did, our bag would be 500bucks.
So, um, we don't want to sell a500 bag because we want it to be
accessible to the most peoplepossible.
So we just what?
Whatever.
If the tariffs cost us an extra$6 per bag, the bag price will
go up $6.

(01:15:07):
We won't multiply that.
Go up 30.
Most companies will go up 30,right, it's a 5X multiplier,
right?
So they'll say, oh, tariffscost us this, so we need to
increase the retail price of thebag, to you know, by 30 bucks.
So yeah, but again.
I chose to do this for fun, sortof Like.

(01:15:31):
I chose to start this companyas a challenge.
I want it to be profitable, Iwant all of our staff to get
paid and I want them to all haveinsurance.
I want myself to be able toafford my house and all that
stuff.
But after that I'm good Like Idon't have a board, being like
oh, we only made 2% returns lastmonth.
Make them higher.
Like nobody's doing that to me.

(01:15:51):
So as long as we, as long as I,make a product that I'm proud
of that our customers enjoyusing, and we break even or do a
little bit better, I'm fine.
That's all that matters.

Paul (01:16:04):
Matters to me right now well, I really appreciate you
coming on the show.
We could talk, do you see?

Sam (01:16:11):
I'm not gonna talk 12 hours on this stuff, dude like, but
we've already been talking foralmost an hour and a half and
yeah, there's so much more tosay, but I mean, I think one
thing I want to I want to touchand like touch on is that you
probably haven't told anybody,or your podcast hasn't mentioned
, that you too are anentrepreneur, like like, most

(01:16:32):
people have podcasts don'treally talk about the fact that
they are also an entrepreneurand I think like having known
you since 2020 2020 before coviddude remember the pga show

Paul (01:16:44):
that's right jason and brandon and maybe introduce me
to you well.

Sam (01:16:49):
I think your story, like what you've done, is as valuable
of a piece of that puzzle tohelp other people understand
what it takes as anybody's,maybe even more so because you
had to leave behind a careerthat was paying you really well
and killing you at the same time.
So I'm glad you talked about ittoday.

Paul (01:17:06):
I'm glad I hope some people heard it and um, I think
life is about chances, like Ithink we just get stagnant, I
don't know.
As soon as you get older, too,I feel like, oh, I don't know.
I saw as a lawyer like you see,all these people who, like,
saved for that retirement.
I saw a lot of people like that, you know.
But they had passed away and Iwas helping their families and

(01:17:28):
like it was just like, well,what did they even live life?
Or they just live to make money, because now they're gone and
they didn't even get to enjoy it.

Sam (01:17:35):
So it's like I don't know, there's no guarantees in life no
I mean this I don't think thispodcast is about life, but but I
mean, that's why I'm in puertorico right now.
Paul, like I, it's I.
I don't know how much longer.
I don't know if I'm alwaysgoing to be able to surf every
day, like physically I don'tknow if I'm going to be healthy

(01:17:56):
for how much longer?
and I don't want to be in 10years like have a million bucks
in the bank and be like, okay,now I can go surf, but like my
knees are bad and like my backhurts and it's like dude, I'm
healthy now.
If I can find a way to havelike a little part of my day be
fulfilling in that way for me,I'm gonna do it and, uh, not at
the detriment to the company,but at the same time like the

(01:18:18):
more healthy I am mentally wehave a balance, right?

Paul (01:18:21):
I don't think you buy people balance.
Well, I think they just youjust work all the time you know
what I mean in one capacity oranother.
If you're a parent, if you'renot a parent, if you have a
company, if you're an employee,if you're a management, like you
just work for what?
Like to pay bills, like dude, Idon't know.

Sam (01:18:40):
It's, it's all, yeah, but it's.
Everybody know like everybodyhas their own reason why they do
everything they do.
But if anybody out, there isthinking about quitting their
job and doing the thing theylove, and they know exactly what
they love and know exactly whatthey would do.
If you have any questions forme, I'm always-.

Paul (01:18:58):
Sam will definitely tell you what he thinks about that.
I love it If you know it.

Sam (01:19:03):
I'm just like thinks about that.
I love it, if you know it.
I'm just like dude, just go doit.

Paul (01:19:08):
I just get bored really easily, dude.
If I get bored with something,I don't want to do it anymore,
or if I figured it out, I'm done.
I've already figured it out.
I figured it out Next.

Sam (01:19:18):
I think that's.
What's cool about owning abusiness is that you can always
you never figure it out.
Yeah, or you figure stuff out,You're like oh okay, this is how
tariffs work.
I learned that this year.
Like you know, like you, youjust there's so much more.
And then now, like we're goingto make shoes and all this other
stuff, it's like dang, whereare shoes made?
How much do they cost to make?

(01:19:39):
What are the soles made out of?
What are the uppers made out of?
How much do the shoelaces cost?
What are the insoles made outof?
Can you make a shoe out ofresponsible material?

Paul (01:19:47):
Why don't you start something easy like slides, surf
shoes, surf slides you justtake to the beach?
I think what we're going tosell is a package deal.

Sam (01:19:56):
It's a pair of shoes that are made specifically for
golfing.
I won't get into what thatmeans, but they're just for
golfing and then you also get apair of slides so that you know
you can take these off.
The second you step off thegrass and you can put on.
Put on your slides, um, butyeah that would be cool it would

(01:20:16):
be easier to start with sleds.

Paul (01:20:18):
Maybe we should do that well then you could do a slide.
You could like go from thebeach.
The course, I don't know I needI need slides.

Sam (01:20:27):
I think there's a company, kelly k-l-l-y, it's, it's a it's
kelly slater's company.
They make really good slidesand, um, I feel like if they
didn't already, then it would belike, okay, we should make
these.

(01:20:41):
But since somebody already is doing it great.

Sam (01:20:43):
It's like well it already exists.
It's already out there.
I can just tell people to buyKelly slides.

Paul (01:20:49):
Yeah, but like, have you made a golf?
I mean, I know there's a lot ofpeople making golf slides right
now.
I know True's coming out withone.

Sam (01:20:57):
Yeah, they should.
That's a good call.

Paul (01:21:00):
I mean they're already.
They have a couple, I think Idon't know.
What do I know about golf?
I don't jack shit.

Sam (01:21:07):
You know more than most.
Yeah, you know more than most.

Paul (01:21:12):
Okay, Paul.

Sam (01:21:16):
Let's get back to work.
I have a meeting with Jambo.

Paul (01:21:19):
Thank you for being on the podcast.
Thank you for having me.
You guys, if you are interestedin getting a sick-ass bag,
you'll get minimal on thepodcast.
If you are interested ingetting a sick ass bag, you'll
get minimal.
They hand paint the bags too,by the way.
He didn't even talk about that,but they hand paint their bags.
If you want a fully custom bag,they can make you a fully
custom bag Hand painted, andthey're freaking sick.
Sam's a good dude.
Sam knows a lot aboutentrepreneurial stuff, even

(01:21:40):
though he acts like he doesn't.

(01:21:43):
Thanks for being on the show it really is.

Paul (01:21:45):
He's one of my good friends, campbell.
He's okay.
I used to know that kid.
He's not a kid anymore, butI'll see you guys in the next
episode.
Okay.

(01:21:55):
Thank you, paul.
Thank you Thanks for listeningto another episode of Behind the
Golf Brand Podcast.
You're going to beat me.
Stay A behind the golf brandpodcast.
You're going to beat me A golf.
Stay connected on and off theshow by visiting
golfersauthoritycom.
Don't forget to like, subscribeand leave a comment.
Golf is always more fun whenyou win.
Stay out of the beach and seeyou on the green.

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#141 - MNML Golf: Sam Goulden

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#141 - MNML Golf: Sam Goulden