June 2, 2025 • 42 mins
Sqairz Golf Shoes, founded in 2019 by Bob Winskowicz, are a groundbreaking innovation in golf footwear designed to enhance performance through balance, stability, and swing speed. The idea for Sqairz originated on a New England driving range, where Winskowicz noticed improved stability while wearing square-toed dress shoes. This realization led to years of research into biomechanics, ground force reaction, and foot movement, culminating in the creation of Sqairz golf shoes.
The defining feature of Sqairz shoes is their patented square toe design, which provides golfers with more room for their toes to sit naturally and improves balance by increasing ground contact area. This wider base under the ball of the foot enhances stability during swings, optimizing energy transfer and boosting accuracy and distance. Independent tests have shown that wearing Sqairz shoes can increase swing speed by up to 2.9 mph, translating into additional yardage.
Sqairz shoes prioritize comfort, performance, and style. They feature waterproof materials for durability, breathable designs for comfort, and innovative "Sta-Put" laces that remain tied throughout a round of golf.
Endorsed by PGA Tour legends like Sir Nick Faldo and John Daly, Sqairz has gained credibility as a performance-driven brand. The company is expanding its technology into other sports while maintaining its commitment to revolutionizing golf footwear with science-backed innovation.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:35):
What's up, guys?
Welcome to the Behind the GolfBrand Podcast.
This week I have my very goodfriend, mr Bob.
How the hell do I say your lastname, wiskinowitz, just kidding
.
Bob (00:48):
You know that's a contradiction.
My really good friend and youcan't even say my last name,
jeez, you know.
Paul (00:54):
I spelled it out once.
But Winskowitz, winskowitz, see.
Look, I got Libertari it'sItalian, it's Italian, you know
that's Italian.
Look, I got libertory italian,it's italian, you know, that's
italian.
That's the magic, actually.
We've been friends for a longtime.
I'm always.
I'm just giving a hard time.
I know I say his last name, butif you don't know who bob is,
(01:15):
he is the founder and creator ofsquares golf shoes, who pretty
much make one of the coolestgolf shoes like ever made.
And they're also coming out orthey have come out with other
sports too, which is really cool, and I think it's really going
to change.
Not, it has not only changedgolf, I think it's going to
change these two other sports aswell, and who knows where else
(01:35):
he's going to go.
So anyways, I'll let him do alltalking.
Bob (01:38):
Welcome to the show it's always good to be on your show,
paul.
Thank you so much, reallyReally appreciate it.
Paul (01:44):
So Bob and I were supposed to do this on Monday, and then
we ended up just bullshittingfor an hour and a half and I was
like, oh, we never went liveand I'm like, oh, let's
reschedule for Friday.
And then we ended up talkingnow for the last 40 minutes and
I'm like, oh, we better startrecording.
Bob (02:06):
That's what happens when Bob and ideas and you know, it's
, yeah, it's all, it's a lot offun.
We just, you know we banterideas and thoughts.
Talk about the golf industry,talk about, uh, you know, the
business of golf, and it's, it'salways fun.
What?
Paul (02:13):
year did you start squares ?
Bob (02:18):
so, technically, 2019 was when we actually had a shoe.
We went to market in 2020.
So you know, here we are.
You know, technically say, sixyears later, but only five years
on the market, yeah, but youguys blew up.
We did.
(02:38):
We were really fortunate, youknow, really blessed in a sense,
that we launched this in 2020,in January, and what happened
was in April of that year, outof the blue, I got my phone
rings and this gentleman on theother end says my name is Jeremy
Eisenberg and I represent SirNick Faldo.
And I'm like, all right, who isthis?
(03:01):
I thought it was a friend ofmine, breaking my chops, you
know.
And so so he says no, no, no,sir Nick, he's really studying
how to use the ground better andstudying ground force.
And he went online and he typedin on on Google.
He typed in balance, stabilityand golf, golf shoes and Squares
(03:25):
came up.
You know, thank God for searchengine optimization, because you
know he found our shoes.
And he said would you mindsending him a couple pairs of
shoes?
Paul (03:34):
So we yeah, you can buy them.
Bob (03:39):
Well, you know we were direct to consumer.
You know we've been direct toconsumer, so there's no place he
can really go.
But you know, so we sent them acouple of pairs and they wanted
to set up a Zoom about a monthlater.
And I get on there and ofcourse I was humbled that I'm on
with Sir Nick Faldo.
You know I really didn't get.
You know, I worked for ArnoldPalmer for years, spent a lot of
(04:03):
time with Arnold and thingslike that.
But you know, sir Nick was morerelatable to me, watching him
grow and the fierceness that heexhibited on the course and all
of that.
You know six majors.
And so I get on the call withhim and he asked me to tell him
about the shoes.
And he leans back and he said Iwould have never believed this
(04:23):
in a million years that I putthese shoes on.
And he picked up about threemiles an hour in a swing speed
and he said look, I just feelmore balanced, more stable.
And he says as you get older,you know you got to have this
confidence that you can go afterthe golf ball, you can go after
it a little more.
And he said you know, I thinkwhat holds a lot of players back
(04:43):
is the shoes today.
And so he just started to reelabout the shoes and then he said
, bob, how do I get involved?
And so I mean it's out there.
He's done a couple of videoswhen he's been interviewed about
this and he's told this wholestory.
So you know a lot of people saywait a minute.
(05:07):
He asked you if he could beinvolved and I said yes, he did.
It's out there in his own words.
So that's what really rocketedthis.
This is what threw gas on thefire was that instant validation
and credibility that comes withsomebody that's won over 40
times on tour and six majors andthe whole thing like he's
legend.
Paul (05:25):
Yeah, you know what I mean it's like.
But they he came, but it alsohe found you.
It wasn't like he, you know I'mgonna find, sir, someone you
know, sir nick the, you know, beour spokesperson.
It's like no, he chose thatbecause he's like holy crap,
what the heck is this?
Bob (05:41):
well it's.
It's interesting is that youknow golf.
You mentioned earlier aboutthat.
We've ventured into sports likebaseball and pickleball, and
I'll use baseball as an example.
Golf has really pioneeredground force and how to use it
and how to study it and how toassess it and how it really
(06:04):
relates to powering the golfswing.
And so when you start lookingat ground force, it's really
that interaction of your feetwith the ground and once you get
to that space there, the golfshoe it really comes to the
forefront of the conversationbecause it, if you think about
(06:26):
it, there's there's two, twoconnections to the in the game
of golf your hands to the cluband your feet to the ground.
Now, I would argue that yourfeet to the ground are the most
important.
And then somebody says well,you can't hit the ball unless
you're holding the club.
Paul (06:38):
Sure enough.
Bob (06:39):
But where the golf swing emanates from is from your
interaction with the ground, andso that makes the golf shoe
probably the most importantpiece of equipment.
Well, the reason why groundforce has been, has has was
studied, was over the years, asthe USGA starts regulating
shafts and heads and trampolineeffect and all of that that
(07:02):
regulated the heck out of thegolf ball.
And, as you know, the talk outthere is that they want to roll
back the distance of the golfball.
Well, it's because we haveoptimized shaft technology and
head technology, we've optimizedclub fitting, we've optimized
the golf ball.
So the usga stepped in andreally put regulations on the
(07:24):
club and the ball.
Paul (07:26):
So where else do you look for more?
There's only so much that youcan dig and do.
Now right, like that's it.
That's the rule, that's theline.
You can't go past that or it'snot going to be.
Bob (07:34):
I'm going to give you a statistic that you will not
believe.
I won't embarrass you, but Iwill tell you if I was to ask
you In 2018, in 2018, theaverage driving distance for an
amateur, measured by Arcos over20 million swings with a driver
was 226.3 yards.
(07:56):
Okay, what would you guess itto be in 2023?
Paul (08:12):
I'm not going to put you out there.
It's 225 yards, so the same.
It went down 1.3 yards.
But it's all these new golfclubs and they're all cool.
It has ai face and whatever thenew 10k, something this
information is out on google.
Bob (08:22):
It was was published by Arcos Over 20 million swings
with a driver in 2018 and 2023.
So anybody listening to thiscan fact check me on this.
Driving distance has gone downby more than a yard and I have
an opinion as to why I want toknow why.
(08:42):
Yes, please is that it soundsillogical that there's any way
it could go down.
And the reason I say that isbecause if you watch every
commercial for Callaway, forTitleist, for, you know, for
TaylorMade and all paying andall the drivers out there,
you're picking up 10, 20 yardsevery year.
(09:03):
You should be hitting the ballin that time frame another
hundred yards.
Well, the other thing thatflies in the face is that you
know, be hitting the ball inthat timeframe another hundred
yards.
Well, the other thing thatflies in the face is that you
know club fitting.
I mean you take places likeClub Champion and all of these
places now that I don't know toomany people that don't go in
and buy a club today that don'tget fitted.
So that should optimize yourswing.
(09:24):
That should give you moredistance.
Think about shaft technology.
Most people think the engine ofa golf club is the head.
It is not.
It is the shaft.
The shaft is the engine of agolf club.
So all of the advancement inshaft technology, why is it that
people have lost 1.3 yards ofdistance?
(09:45):
Well, if you buy in a groundforce and you start looking at
shoes, the industry, the golfindustry went to about 63% of
these spikeless, lightweight,sneaker-like shoes that you can
twist, okay, and I always tellpeople if you can twist the golf
(10:05):
shoe, hold it by the heel andthe toe and twist it.
Throw it away.
You can't play golf in it.
Now, 82% of all tour playerswear a golf shoe that's got a
removable cleat.
Spikes.
Of that, 82% 30% still wear ametal cleat.
We can't as amateurs, and weall love to hear that click,
(10:26):
click, click when they'rewalking through the yeah yeah.
But, but.
But the 82 percent of tourplayers wear a removable cleat.
Now, driving distance went upabout eight yards in that same
period for tour pros.
Ok, but when you start studyingthe ground, ground force, your
shoe can either help you or hurtyou.
(10:47):
Now most golfers out there whois listening to this would say,
geez, that just kind of makessense.
But with all the pressure matsthat we have today in swing
analysis we can show you whatyour weight distribution looks
like.
So in the golf swing, the twomost important things I believe
(11:08):
is balance stability.
Well, balance stability I wouldput in the same bucket and then
weight distribution.
So weight weight distributionis that you too much in your
toes, too much in your heels.
When you take the club back,you should load on the inside of
your trail heel and and.
So where is your weight at whatpoint in the swing?
(11:29):
All right, that's number one.
Number two is you createpressure with the ground.
So when you look at somebodylike Rory McIlroy and you watch
him hit a drive, I mean here's aguy that's 160 pounds, soaking
wet, and he can hit the ball 345yards.
Now, how is that possible?
Well, he uses the ground and ifyou watch him swing as he's
(11:50):
coming down.
It looks like he's sitting down, but what's happening is is
he's forcing, forcing pressureinto the ground more than twice
his body weight.
He's forcing it down into theground, it's coming back up
through him and that's thesource of his power.
And to make it kind of simplefor people is that it's like
jumping on a trampoline.
(12:11):
When you want to go higher,what do you do?
You push down harder, youextend your legs, you push down
harder and that gives you morepressure to go back up.
So number one, it's how muchpressure can you create with the
ground?
And then the single greatestdifference between an amateur
player and a tour pro is what wecall postural control, which is
(12:35):
stability, how well you controlyour body through that motion.
So now you create the pressure,but how much of that pressure
do you use at the point ofimpact?
And I can tell you it's not thesame amount that you generate
here, because we, as golfers,you know you see the golfers
moving back and forth and leftand right.
Yet the tour players, you knowyou can draw a line down and
(12:58):
watch how that head stays rightthere behind the ball.
And so posture and posturalcontrol and balance and
stability and weightdistribution is paramount in the
golf swing.
Rick Smith, who's one of the topinstructors out there?
We've got Rick Smith, davidLedbetter, jim McLean, all these
instructors, would you know?
(13:19):
People go in for lessons andthe guy says you know, hey,
should my hands be here here?
Here Rick Smith says look,forget about your hands, I'm
going to work from your, aboutyour hands.
I'm going to work from yourbelt.
Buckle down, I'm going to workon your footwork, your
interaction with the ground, andthen we'll worry about all the
way up here.
That would be like building ahouse before you build a
(13:39):
foundation.
So your golf shoe is paramountNow.
Golf shoes of the past uh, withthe, with the leather structured
spike shoes, let's just parkthose to the right and then take
these lightweight, sneaker likespikeless shoes that you're
(13:59):
like slipping and sliding rightit is you are and and the other
thing is is that when you wearsomething these, these
lightweight sneaker shoes andyou have a side hill downhill
lie, which we know, of course,isn't perfectly flat, your foot
is going to press out of thisshoe, it's going to move in the
shoe, and then your body hasthis internal GPS and if you
(14:25):
feel that that movement of yourfoot on a side hill, downhill
lie, it's kind of like whenyou're looking over a cliff.
When you're looking over acliff, your brain says, oh, and
your toes are going to grab theground.
And that's the same thing ingolf.
If you're in a side hilldownhill lie and your body feels
this imbalance, it's going tograb the ground and that's the
(14:45):
worst thing you can do is grabthe ground.
So when you look at thoselightweight sneaker-like shoes
over here and you look at thatleather-structured shoe with
great traction over here, youknow the lightweight sneaker was
like, hey, people feel it'smore comfortable, more
breathable, all of that.
Where the old shoe of yesterdaywas heavy, but it had the
(15:06):
structure, it had the traction.
Where the old shoe of yesterdaywas heavy, but it had the
structure, it had the traction.
What we did at Squares is.
We believe we've built theperfect confluence of that
lightweight sneaker like shoeand that structured spike shoe
of the past.
So we believe we have createdthis whole new category of shoe
(15:27):
which is really what I call theperfect hybrid.
So let me, let me kind of takeyou through that Number one.
This shoe weighs about 424grams.
If you look at the Adidas Tour360, you look at the FootJoy
Premier, the FootJoy Traditions,the G44 gallivan, this is
(15:48):
lighter than that.
So those performance shoes,where squares participates in
this performance shoe business,that we are the lightest of any
performance-based shoe in themarket.
So we took that light weightfrom that other category, that
sneaker like, put it into thisshoe without compromising
structure.
You can't twist this shoe.
(16:09):
It's got the structure.
The other thing we did is webuilt a hybrid traction pattern
so, as you can see, it's kind ofget that like spikeless look
with a couple of spikessprinkled in.
Now, where these spikes arelocated are directly under the
pressure points that, that, that, they that you exert the
greatest amount of pressure onthe ground.
(16:30):
So these, these arestrategically positioned.
But what makes this shoe fardifferent than any other shoe?
And we have done study of thestudy, of study about ground
force and about distance, thatthis shoe.
This shoe will outperform anyother shoe on the market
relative to distance.
And this is why is that withall shoes today they angle your
(16:53):
toes to the center of the shoeand your foot really operates as
a three-legged stool your thumb, your little toe and your heel.
And if you take and you startangling your toes to the center
of the shoe, you start losingbalance and stability.
You also start losing that feelfor the ground in your ability
to create ground force, becausewhen you start moving that in
(17:17):
like this, just think about howmuch ground force you can
produce with this kind of motionversus this kind of motion.
So the other thing is your bigtoe is like the steering wheel
of a car.
This gives you direction.
This accounts for most of theproduction in the golf swing is
your big toe.
But when you start reducingthat by moving it inwards, you
(17:40):
start reducing the foot functionand you also start reducing
balance and stability and groundforce production.
And again, this is allmeasurable with pressure mats.
So what Squares did is the restof what Squares did is we opened
up the toe box.
Now, this is not a wide shoe,all right, this is a normal D
(18:01):
width shoe.
But what we did is we opened upthe toe box from where the toes
meet the foot up in this area.
Only Now you would think thatthat's really not novel.
But when you think back to allthe shoes that have been
produced up to date, everythingangled your toes to the center
of the shoe.
But now, because of all theresearch that's out there and
(18:24):
all of the problems people havewith plantar fasciitis and all
of these foot problems, is thatpeople like Hoka, people like
Ultra people, like on runningeverybody has jumped into
opening up the toe box comeswith opening up the toe box.
(18:51):
So we opened up the toe box, but, as I mentioned, this is not a
wide shoe, but what we did wasjust the outsole only is we
widened the base under the ballof your foot by about four
millimeters.
This will give you even morebalance and stability.
But now you've got moretraction and more coverage of
the ground and more energyexchange with the ground.
(19:11):
The other thing we did is thisthis piece on the back of the
shoe, this external piece.
It runs externally and theninternally down along the plant,
the fascia, and this givestremendous art support, but it
also gives.
It gives that anti,anti-torsion, because you don't
want the shoe twisting.
The other little technique wedid is we put these little nubs
(19:35):
on the laces.
We did that because you wantthe foot to be one with the shoe
.
So what you do is you bringthis down, but you don't want it
loosening up, and so once youpull these laces tight, they
stay exactly where you put them.
Paul (19:52):
They put laces right, that's right.
Bob (19:55):
Yep.
So the other thing is that withthe toe box, there's more
comfort, there's more balance,there's more stability, more
ground production.
So what we did in golf golfreally pioneered ground force,
force plates, all of the scienceand technology, swing analysis.
Now other sports, like baseball, are finally finally catching
(20:18):
up.
Now we launched our baseballshoe back in October and we have
just been named the officialbaseball shoe of Perfect Game.
We've been named the officialbaseball shoe of perfect game.
We've been named the officialbaseball shoe of major league
baseball players association.
Minor league and major leaguebaseball players association, an
official partner of of all theplayers in the in in major
(20:40):
league baseball, we will haveover 250 players wearing the
shoe in baseball, and the wholereason is is that they did the
same type of research inbaseball and on average, in
major league baseball playersare picking up five miles an
hour and exit velocity.
Paul (20:56):
Now exit velocity.
Yeah, what does that mean?
Cause if you're not in abaseball like this is massive
right.
Bob (21:01):
This is game changing.
It is and and.
And.
If you think about it now, whydoes that happen?
How does it happen and I knowit sounds like a big number when
you say five miles an hour inexit velocity, now in pitching
it's 2.7 miles an hour.
On a fastball We've picked up2.7 miles an hour.
(21:24):
And this was independent studiesand in fact it's a medical,
clinical independent study andwe had a group of.
There was a group of orthopedicsurgeons and podiatrists got
together and were very intriguedabout the impact of shoe design
and structure as it relates tofoot function and performance,
(21:47):
and they did a study and it waspresented three weeks ago at the
American College in Foot andAnkle Surgeons Convention and it
won an award.
That our shoe won an award.
It was presented at thisrecognizable medical conference
that why they were so intriguedwas that this shoe promotes
(22:08):
proper foot function and thatproper foot function allows for
better or elevated performance.
And then we can measure thatelevated performance.
So in baseball it's a gamechanger because, if you think
about it, what happens with abaseball player?
They have a tendency of doingwhat they call varus of valgus
(22:29):
profile.
All right, now varus is pickingup your big toe.
All right, valgus is picking upyour little toe and if you
watch a lot of these players asthey get ready to swing, they
start picking their foot up andas they start picking that foot
up and the shoe is encouragingbecause that shoe doesn't have
structure or the design of thatshoe, so I can measure how much
(22:53):
that toe is up and how muchthey're losing in exit velocity.
So what I'm what I'm here tosay is that it's not that that
this shoe is is is giving themsomething they don't have.
What the shoe does is itreduces all of this anti-torsion
(23:13):
, it keeps their foot in aneutral position and it lets
them optimize their potential.
These guys that are picking upfive miles an hour in exit
velocity, they always had it,they just could never use it.
Paul (23:26):
Because of the way their foot is right yeah, exactly.
And the way they already have aproblem with.
Not a problem, but it's justhow they're built, right.
And then, on top of it, theshoe makes it even worse, right.
Bob (23:40):
It exacerbates it, it promotes that, you know that
inefficiency, it encourages itand it makes it worse.
And it was interesting I wastalking with Manny Rodriguez's
agent.
Manny's a pitcher for the Raysand so he was throwing
(24:00):
consistently 94 miles an hour,you know, in his Nikes.
And so I was talking to hisagent and I said to her I said
I'll tell you what I'll make youa bet.
To her I said I'll tell youwhat I'll make you a bet.
I'm going to send him theseshoes and he'll pick up at least
two miles an hour.
And so we made a bet.
In fact, she's a big pizza fan,I'm a pizza fan and so we're
(24:21):
talking, we said what are wegoing to bet?
And we said let's bet a pizza.
So we send the shoes to Manny.
About two weeks later I get anemail and the opening line of
the email was I owe you a pizza.
He hit 97-98 in his fastballjust by changing his shoes.
Now, like I said before, he'salways had that potential, but
(24:51):
the fact that those shoes werejamming his toes like this
balanced stability.
And I think Manny had a variousprofile, which means you know
if you look at your shoes andwhere you wear your shoes out.
You know you have a certainprofile and if you have a
various profile and you've got ashoe that encourages more of
that, you're losing a lot.
So you know it's our abilitywhen you're hitting, when you're
pitching, when you're runningis that balance and stability is
(25:14):
paramount.
So when I launched Squares, itwas really all about one thing.
It was a premise that I said ifI can improve your balance and
your stability, you will hit theball farther and straighter,
because balance and stabilityhas a direct relationship with
dispersion, same with distancethat if I can give you more
(25:35):
balance, you will hit it farther, and we can measure that today.
So you know it's all aboutground force, it's all about the
production of it and then howmuch you use.
And this year we really focusedin on, you know, a very classy,
clean design.
(25:55):
And then we really worked ontaking weight out of the shoe.
Now, when you take weight outof the shoe, usually taking
weight out means takingstructure out.
So that's the delicate balance,that's the engineering that
went into this shoe, withmaterials and internal structure
that we were able to take outof the shoe.
Last year we were 491 grams.
(26:15):
This year we're 424.
So taking out of 50 grams, which50-something grams, which is
almost, you know, two and a halfounces.
We've taken out almost two anda half ounces.
So it's something that you knoweverybody is talking about
today is the golf shoe and howto use the ground better.
(26:36):
And in fact, I was watching thegolf channel the other night
and there was something on thereabout rory talking about
working with the designers atnike to customize the shoe based
upon his foot profile.
You know, scotty Scheffler hadthe same kind of situation where
they filmed him working withthem to customize the shoe, and
(26:59):
even I think JT was on the othernight talking about his foot
choice.
So you know it's something thatwe have as a footwear company.
We pioneered, really, in golffootwear.
Paul (27:11):
We pioneered this whole thing about allowing the toes to
sit naturally, producing moreenergy, more balance, more
stability, and now everybody'sstarting to catch up to us well,
it's just crazy too, becauseand until people are really
understanding what's the sciencebehind it and the numbers and
you start to really it's likeholy crap, you know, not just
(27:34):
for baseball, I mean initiallyfor golf, but now it's like not
just golf, now it's baseball,now it's pickleball.
Bob (27:40):
It's like the same theory any sport you're on your feet
pretty much could this, couldhelp somebody absolutely,
because balance and stability inany land-based sport is
paramount, because you can'toptimize your performance
without optimizing your use ofthe ground.
It's something we all know thatyou've just got to be able to
(28:06):
use the ground better and moreefficiently, and if you can do
that, you'll play at a muchhigher level.
So someone's asking a questionMaybe you can do that.
Um, you'll play at a muchhigher level.
Paul (28:13):
So someone's asking a question.
Maybe you can look at thisquestion here.
This guy's asking can squaresbring a 2e wide to a size 7 for
a golf shoe, because it onlygoes with a size 9 I don't think
we are the the answer.
Bob (28:26):
The answer is yes, we, we, we have gotten enough, gotten a
lot of requests for E's in thelower size.
Paul (28:36):
What does that mean for dummies like me?
I don't know what that means.
Bob (28:38):
All right, so E is width.
So there's a normal D width andthen you have an E width and
then they have what they calltwo, three, four E's.
It's just the width.
This person probably has a wideball under their foot, you know
wide base of their foot.
So, uh, with even with our, alot of people try to buy width
with length of the shoe, whichis weird, right, because?
(29:00):
Then their foot's moving in theshoe.
But you know that was reallytheir only option for years is
trying to buy that yeah, I justand, and, so now the industry
has really really focused onthis.
So the answer is yes, we will beaddressing this.
Paul (29:17):
I guess what made you guys move into baseball.
Like when did you realize?
Like whoa baseball?
Because I mean initially youstarted in golf, but did
baseball become becausepickleball came before baseball,
right, and then no, actually.
Bob (29:28):
Wait, wait, wait, no, yes, you are correct, you are correct
.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, no, yes, you are correct, you are
(29:56):
correct.
But it's kind of an interestingstory is that we started
designing, developing apickleball shoe because we saw
you know, we really saw thecrossover play pickleball and we
designed this shoe and we madeprobably, I think, a size nine
to a 13.
And we have a gentleman namedPhil Stoddard who's a ground
force expert, does a lot of workwith the Cincinnati Reds and a
lot of other major leaguebaseball players and teams, and
so Phil says hey, can you sendme down some of those pickleball
like shoes that you develop?
We sent them down at Phil.
(30:16):
Phil took them because heunderstood our golf shoe and how
it really helps put people in aneutral position, balanced
ability.
His mindset, unbeknownst to me,was to take it to the Reds
training camp, and so we took itover to the training camp and
started training these kids inthe shoes.
And he calls me one night.
He goes Bob, you're not goingto believe what I'm seeing here.
(30:37):
I mean I got kids that arepicking up five, six miles an
hour in exit velocity.
I mean I got pitchers that arepicking up three miles an hour
in their fastball just bychanging the shoes out.
He says I think you gotsomething here in baseball.
And so you know I didn't takethe bait.
I went for about another yearand he kept pushing me.
And then he says look, you dome a favor, can you make like
(31:00):
three or four you know moldedshoes?
Because we were making like aturf, you know, and that's
what's the pickleball shit?
You know the pickleball.
And so I did, and same thinghappened.
He calls me back, bob.
I got guys asking for him, Igot to get you know, and that's
how it really started and Ifinally just said hey, if I can
(31:21):
see this kind of data coming outof the same data coming out of
baseball as I did golf, then whynot?
So then I brought on somebodyto do all the testing.
Louisville Slugger's hittingand science center did all of
this testing about ground forceproduction, exit, velocity,
throwing, velocities, running,and, and so we got into baseball
(31:46):
.
And then about three monthslater we we launched in December
of last year, you know, welaunched our pickleball shoe.
Paul (31:54):
This is amazing how it's developing so fast, because this
technology is so revolutionarythat I don't know.
I think baseball is going to bebigger than golf.
That's what I think personally.
Bob (32:05):
Well, you certainly.
I think you're right too,because there's certainly, you
know, the fun part aboutbaseball is that you know, we
sell to a lot of teams, you know, and instead of selling one
golfer out there, I sell to, youknow, 20 something kids and
then, as you know, as a parentand somebody has somebody in
baseball is that they need, theyneed a molded and they need a
(32:27):
turf, or they need a molded turfand metal.
Paul (32:30):
So there's three, you know , and then and it's a kid their
feet are growing right andthey're going to destroy them in
the next four months.
And you know one pair of golfshoes that you use for three
years, right?
Bob (32:46):
So you know golf is, you know golf is great.
I love golf.
It's a testing ground.
It's a testing ground.
Paul (32:53):
Yeah, I mean for a lot of products.
I figure, like I mean, it works.
The technology works,regardless of what sport, and I
bet you're going to figure outsome other way of using it for
some other sport too, annoyingyou.
You know what I mean.
Oh, we could use it forbasketball, who knows?
I have no idea.
But like this, something elsethat, like I don't know, I think
(33:13):
the technology is, it's.
Bob (33:15):
But I think for golf, you know, I I have got a tremendous
passion, as you know, for golfand if I could, if I could, talk
to every golfer in the UnitedStates or around the world, I
would say everybody thinks thegolf shoe is just a fashion
statement.
Everybody thinks the golf shoeis just a fashion statement.
Everybody wants to look good,sure enough.
But the golf shoe reallyfacilitates all the key
(33:39):
fundamentals of the swing andwithout balance and stability
and ground connection, you gotnothing.
Everything else is compensation.
From that point forward, you'recompensating.
You may become really good atcompensating, but that's why the
golf, the tour pros, don'tcompensate.
They've got this, this wholeregimen down.
(34:00):
They can repeat it, repeat it,repeat it.
So you know they focus on that.
They are always on pressuremats are all on swing speeds.
They're all looking at, atcertain points of the swing, how
balanced they are, if they'reon their toes, the heels or
whatever.
I would tell every golfer thatis listening to this that give
it a shot, go out and get a pairof squares.
Get on a pressure mat or swingspeed monitor and you will show
(34:24):
yourself.
You will feel instantly.
This is the beauty of theseshoes.
Paul (34:28):
You're going to see it.
You're going to be like whatthe F?
Yeah?
Same change on your body, right?
Bob (34:36):
That's what you're doing with your feet.
Right and just put them on,you'll instantly feel the
stability number one.
Number two is you will havethis feeling that you can go
after it because you feel thatstable, that connected to the
ground.
The other thing is you will seethe distance.
You will see them on the golfcourse.
Wear them for 30 days and ifyou don't like them, if they
(35:07):
don't do everything we say, youcan send them back.
There's not too many companiesout there that will do that.
Once you wear them, you ownthem.
Well, once you wear them,they'll charge you a 30%
restocking fee or something likethat.
I am so confident in the data.
We have over 40 somethingpapers published on the design
(35:28):
of our shoe, most of which aremedical clinical papers and the
function.
We've got a medical advisoryboard of podiatrists four
podiatrists, no threepodiatrists, three orthopedic
surgeon and a gentleman who ownsthe largest physical therapy
practice in the United States.
(35:49):
They've got over 3,000locations and you don't get
these type of people unless theytest it, they validate it,
because they're not going to puttheir name.
They're not going to put theirname on that shit.
There's no way, nope, and andthat's why you know it's it's
sometimes hard to market what wehave in this shoe and and you
(36:10):
know we all have a limitedattention span, but you know,
coming on a podcast like thiswhere I can tell the whole story
and hopefully it's entertainingenough, so somebody listens to
Will's story is that, hey look,there's nothing more important
than your golf shoe.
And the last thing I'd say ismy golf spy did a study, I think
it was like two years ago.
(36:31):
They took the five bestperforming drivers and they took
and they added a driver thatwas five years old into the mix
and they tested all thesedrivers and they boiled it down
to five drivers and thedifference between number one
and three was less than a yard.
All right in in times ofdistance, all right so same
(36:53):
shaft, same head, sameeverything.
I think it was less than oneyard in the top three.
It's less than three yards inthe top five.
The second best, second bestperforming driver was the one
that was five years old.
It's hilarious.
And then you match up with thefact that in 2018, it was 226.3
yards average driving distanceand in 2023, it was 225, a loss
(37:20):
of 1.3 yards.
The only thing that's changedis the golf shoe.
Over this time, the market wentto 63 percent to this.
It's starting to really startto come back now, because people
are finally realizing that athis is hurting your game, but b
is companies like us.
They can give you thatlightweight, that comfortability
(37:42):
, without compromisingperformance.
Paul (37:46):
Yeah, I've always been a fan, like you know that, like
I've seen the technology, butthen even, like I've talked to,
some other people have used itthat are in the professional
field and they're like, dude, itdoes work.
I'm like, yeah, no shit, you'rea lot.
Bob (38:03):
I think you said it exactly that way too, I really probably
did say that.
Paul (38:06):
I'm like thanks, Watson, when can people find Squares?
Bob (38:14):
You can visit our website, squares S-Q-A-I-R-Z squarescom.
We're also available.
The golf is available worldwidegolf.
They're on PGA tour scorescom.
Our baseball is on dickscom, so, but our website, if you go to
(38:35):
our website, which is squarescom, you can see everything there
and, like I said, give it a tryand after 30 days it doesn't do
everything we say it does.
Paul (38:44):
You can send it back well, outside of all the tech and all
the cool shit, like you guysare keeping refining the shoe
too, like the way it looks right, like from where you were in
2019, 2020 to now.
Like the shoes works the samebut they're getting more, it
looks different and it's gettingrefined and it's like that's
(39:04):
cool, you know honestly, paul,because we listen.
We listen to people we wereknocking like, oh yeah, it looks
like.
Now it's like, dude, theseshoes look badass yeah people
were saying, hey, I don't likethe looks.
Bob (39:17):
You know, it's too heavy, you know, and so you know.
What we do is we start.
I work here and I've got moreshoes sitting around me than you
can imagine and I look at themall day long and I sit here and
I think how can I make thisbetter?
What little nuance can I do?
Do I add more cushioning on thecollar here?
Do I?
You?
Paul (39:37):
know that's a baseball shoe right.
Yeah that's a baseball shoe.
Bob (39:43):
That's going baseball shoe, right, yeah, that's a baseball
shoe that's going to blow up,bro, I can tell you right now.
Yeah, you know.
The other thing too is thisyear we did was a premium
microfiber upper, and microfiberis great because microfiber is
100% waterproof, so it doesn'tlet water in, but it lets
perspiration and moisture out,and so you know that
breathability is critical.
The other thing we do is we sewour tongue all the way down
(40:07):
because water wants to bounceinto the shoe through the tongue
.
So this shoe is literallywaterproof all the way up to the
top in the baseball shoebaseball shoe, yeah, in the
baseball shoe and our, our golfshoe, yep, yep well, I knew the
golf shoe because it has thisscupper.
Paul (40:23):
Did you guys call it yeah?
Bob (40:25):
this upper material is a microfiber upper, and again we
sew the gusset on either side.
Paul (40:30):
That's it.
That's what it was.
Yeah, so it's waterproof likethere's no way water's gonna get
in that bad boy no, not at all.
Bob (40:35):
In fact, I did a video last year.
I put my foot, I had both feetin the lake, soaking in the the
lake and all the way up to hereI took my shoe off and showed my
feet were still dry, my sockswere still dry.
They're 100% waterproof.
Two-year guarantee on thewaterproof.
Paul (40:53):
That's so cool.
I'm proud of you.
I think it's cool as shit.
Dude, you're crushing it and Ilove it how you're moving
outside of golf and like thebaseball and the pickleball,
it's like I don't know a lot offoresight there just to see.
Bob (41:06):
Yeah, as we were talking before, I don't think I've met I
think I've met one pitcher thatpitches in the MLB that doesn't
play golf.
These guys love golf, so it'syou know.
Paul (41:16):
I get, I get them.
They're always hanging me.
Hey, can I?
Bob (41:18):
get a pair of golf shoes.
You know, hey, can I get a pairof golf shoes?
Yeah, no problem.
Yeah, I just did a shoe forRoger Clemens Actually, it was
this shoe and we put the Rocketman logo on the back of the shoe
here for him.
Yeah, he's a big golfer and, ofcourse, great pitcher, an
amazing pitcher, he's the.
Paul (41:40):
GOAT, one of the GOATs, yep.
Well, thank you for being onthe show today.
You guys got to check outSquares.
It's the real deal.
Bob's awesome, bob's awesome.
So, but, thank you, Be on theshow and I'll see you guys in
the next episode.
Bob (41:55):
Thanks, Paul Appreciate it.
Thanks, Paul Appreciate it.
(42:05):
Thanks, paul, appreciate it.
What's up, guys?
Welcome to the Behind the GolfBrand Podcast.
This week I have my very goodfriend, mr Bob.
How the hell do I say your lastname, wiskinowitz, just kidding
.
Bob (00:48):
You know that's a contradiction.
My really good friend and youcan't even say my last name,
jeez, you know.
Paul (00:54):
I spelled it out once.
But Winskowitz, winskowitz, see.
Look, I got Libertari it'sItalian, it's Italian, you know
that's Italian.
Look, I got libertory italian,it's italian, you know, that's
italian.
That's the magic, actually.
We've been friends for a longtime.
I'm always.
I'm just giving a hard time.
I know I say his last name, butif you don't know who bob is,
(01:15):
he is the founder and creator ofsquares golf shoes, who pretty
much make one of the coolestgolf shoes like ever made.
And they're also coming out orthey have come out with other
sports too, which is really cool, and I think it's really going
to change.
Not, it has not only changedgolf, I think it's going to
change these two other sports aswell, and who knows where else
(01:35):
he's going to go.
So anyways, I'll let him do alltalking.
Bob (01:38):
Welcome to the show it's always good to be on your show,
paul.
Thank you so much, reallyReally appreciate it.
Paul (01:44):
So Bob and I were supposed to do this on Monday, and then
we ended up just bullshittingfor an hour and a half and I was
like, oh, we never went liveand I'm like, oh, let's
reschedule for Friday.
And then we ended up talkingnow for the last 40 minutes and
I'm like, oh, we better startrecording.
Bob (02:06):
That's what happens when Bob and ideas and you know, it's
, yeah, it's all, it's a lot offun.
We just, you know we banterideas and thoughts.
Talk about the golf industry,talk about, uh, you know, the
business of golf, and it's, it'salways fun.
What?
Paul (02:13):
year did you start squares ?
Bob (02:18):
so, technically, 2019 was when we actually had a shoe.
We went to market in 2020.
So you know, here we are.
You know, technically say, sixyears later, but only five years
on the market, yeah, but youguys blew up.
We did.
(02:38):
We were really fortunate, youknow, really blessed in a sense,
that we launched this in 2020,in January, and what happened
was in April of that year, outof the blue, I got my phone
rings and this gentleman on theother end says my name is Jeremy
Eisenberg and I represent SirNick Faldo.
And I'm like, all right, who isthis?
(03:01):
I thought it was a friend ofmine, breaking my chops, you
know.
And so so he says no, no, no,sir Nick, he's really studying
how to use the ground better andstudying ground force.
And he went online and he typedin on on Google.
He typed in balance, stabilityand golf, golf shoes and Squares
(03:25):
came up.
You know, thank God for searchengine optimization, because you
know he found our shoes.
And he said would you mindsending him a couple pairs of
shoes?
Paul (03:34):
So we yeah, you can buy them.
Bob (03:39):
Well, you know we were direct to consumer.
You know we've been direct toconsumer, so there's no place he
can really go.
But you know, so we sent them acouple of pairs and they wanted
to set up a Zoom about a monthlater.
And I get on there and ofcourse I was humbled that I'm on
with Sir Nick Faldo.
You know I really didn't get.
You know, I worked for ArnoldPalmer for years, spent a lot of
(04:03):
time with Arnold and thingslike that.
But you know, sir Nick was morerelatable to me, watching him
grow and the fierceness that heexhibited on the course and all
of that.
You know six majors.
And so I get on the call withhim and he asked me to tell him
about the shoes.
And he leans back and he said Iwould have never believed this
(04:23):
in a million years that I putthese shoes on.
And he picked up about threemiles an hour in a swing speed
and he said look, I just feelmore balanced, more stable.
And he says as you get older,you know you got to have this
confidence that you can go afterthe golf ball, you can go after
it a little more.
And he said you know, I thinkwhat holds a lot of players back
(04:43):
is the shoes today.
And so he just started to reelabout the shoes and then he said
, bob, how do I get involved?
And so I mean it's out there.
He's done a couple of videoswhen he's been interviewed about
this and he's told this wholestory.
So you know a lot of people saywait a minute.
(05:07):
He asked you if he could beinvolved and I said yes, he did.
It's out there in his own words.
So that's what really rocketedthis.
This is what threw gas on thefire was that instant validation
and credibility that comes withsomebody that's won over 40
times on tour and six majors andthe whole thing like he's
legend.
Paul (05:25):
Yeah, you know what I mean it's like.
But they he came, but it alsohe found you.
It wasn't like he, you know I'mgonna find, sir, someone you
know, sir nick the, you know, beour spokesperson.
It's like no, he chose thatbecause he's like holy crap,
what the heck is this?
Bob (05:41):
well it's.
It's interesting is that youknow golf.
You mentioned earlier aboutthat.
We've ventured into sports likebaseball and pickleball, and
I'll use baseball as an example.
Golf has really pioneeredground force and how to use it
and how to study it and how toassess it and how it really
(06:04):
relates to powering the golfswing.
And so when you start lookingat ground force, it's really
that interaction of your feetwith the ground and once you get
to that space there, the golfshoe it really comes to the
forefront of the conversationbecause it, if you think about
(06:26):
it, there's there's two, twoconnections to the in the game
of golf your hands to the cluband your feet to the ground.
Now, I would argue that yourfeet to the ground are the most
important.
And then somebody says well,you can't hit the ball unless
you're holding the club.
Paul (06:38):
Sure enough.
Bob (06:39):
But where the golf swing emanates from is from your
interaction with the ground, andso that makes the golf shoe
probably the most importantpiece of equipment.
Well, the reason why groundforce has been, has has was
studied, was over the years, asthe USGA starts regulating
shafts and heads and trampolineeffect and all of that that
(07:02):
regulated the heck out of thegolf ball.
And, as you know, the talk outthere is that they want to roll
back the distance of the golfball.
Well, it's because we haveoptimized shaft technology and
head technology, we've optimizedclub fitting, we've optimized
the golf ball.
So the usga stepped in andreally put regulations on the
(07:24):
club and the ball.
Paul (07:26):
So where else do you look for more?
There's only so much that youcan dig and do.
Now right, like that's it.
That's the rule, that's theline.
You can't go past that or it'snot going to be.
Bob (07:34):
I'm going to give you a statistic that you will not
believe.
I won't embarrass you, but Iwill tell you if I was to ask
you In 2018, in 2018, theaverage driving distance for an
amateur, measured by Arcos over20 million swings with a driver
was 226.3 yards.
(07:56):
Okay, what would you guess itto be in 2023?
Paul (08:12):
I'm not going to put you out there.
It's 225 yards, so the same.
It went down 1.3 yards.
But it's all these new golfclubs and they're all cool.
It has ai face and whatever thenew 10k, something this
information is out on google.
Bob (08:22):
It was was published by Arcos Over 20 million swings
with a driver in 2018 and 2023.
So anybody listening to thiscan fact check me on this.
Driving distance has gone downby more than a yard and I have
an opinion as to why I want toknow why.
(08:42):
Yes, please is that it soundsillogical that there's any way
it could go down.
And the reason I say that isbecause if you watch every
commercial for Callaway, forTitleist, for, you know, for
TaylorMade and all paying andall the drivers out there,
you're picking up 10, 20 yardsevery year.
(09:03):
You should be hitting the ballin that time frame another
hundred yards.
Well, the other thing thatflies in the face is that you
know, be hitting the ball inthat timeframe another hundred
yards.
Well, the other thing thatflies in the face is that you
know club fitting.
I mean you take places likeClub Champion and all of these
places now that I don't know toomany people that don't go in
and buy a club today that don'tget fitted.
So that should optimize yourswing.
(09:24):
That should give you moredistance.
Think about shaft technology.
Most people think the engine ofa golf club is the head.
It is not.
It is the shaft.
The shaft is the engine of agolf club.
So all of the advancement inshaft technology, why is it that
people have lost 1.3 yards ofdistance?
(09:45):
Well, if you buy in a groundforce and you start looking at
shoes, the industry, the golfindustry went to about 63% of
these spikeless, lightweight,sneaker-like shoes that you can
twist, okay, and I always tellpeople if you can twist the golf
(10:05):
shoe, hold it by the heel andthe toe and twist it.
Throw it away.
You can't play golf in it.
Now, 82% of all tour playerswear a golf shoe that's got a
removable cleat.
Spikes.
Of that, 82% 30% still wear ametal cleat.
We can't as amateurs, and weall love to hear that click,
(10:26):
click, click when they'rewalking through the yeah yeah.
But, but.
But the 82 percent of tourplayers wear a removable cleat.
Now, driving distance went upabout eight yards in that same
period for tour pros.
Ok, but when you start studyingthe ground, ground force, your
shoe can either help you or hurtyou.
(10:47):
Now most golfers out there whois listening to this would say,
geez, that just kind of makessense.
But with all the pressure matsthat we have today in swing
analysis we can show you whatyour weight distribution looks
like.
So in the golf swing, the twomost important things I believe
(11:08):
is balance stability.
Well, balance stability I wouldput in the same bucket and then
weight distribution.
So weight weight distributionis that you too much in your
toes, too much in your heels.
When you take the club back,you should load on the inside of
your trail heel and and.
So where is your weight at whatpoint in the swing?
(11:29):
All right, that's number one.
Number two is you createpressure with the ground.
So when you look at somebodylike Rory McIlroy and you watch
him hit a drive, I mean here's aguy that's 160 pounds, soaking
wet, and he can hit the ball 345yards.
Now, how is that possible?
Well, he uses the ground and ifyou watch him swing as he's
(11:50):
coming down.
It looks like he's sitting down, but what's happening is is
he's forcing, forcing pressureinto the ground more than twice
his body weight.
He's forcing it down into theground, it's coming back up
through him and that's thesource of his power.
And to make it kind of simplefor people is that it's like
jumping on a trampoline.
(12:11):
When you want to go higher,what do you do?
You push down harder, youextend your legs, you push down
harder and that gives you morepressure to go back up.
So number one, it's how muchpressure can you create with the
ground?
And then the single greatestdifference between an amateur
player and a tour pro is what wecall postural control, which is
(12:35):
stability, how well you controlyour body through that motion.
So now you create the pressure,but how much of that pressure
do you use at the point ofimpact?
And I can tell you it's not thesame amount that you generate
here, because we, as golfers,you know you see the golfers
moving back and forth and leftand right.
Yet the tour players, you knowyou can draw a line down and
(12:58):
watch how that head stays rightthere behind the ball.
And so posture and posturalcontrol and balance and
stability and weightdistribution is paramount in the
golf swing.
Rick Smith, who's one of the topinstructors out there?
We've got Rick Smith, davidLedbetter, jim McLean, all these
instructors, would you know?
(13:19):
People go in for lessons andthe guy says you know, hey,
should my hands be here here?
Here Rick Smith says look,forget about your hands, I'm
going to work from your, aboutyour hands.
I'm going to work from yourbelt.
Buckle down, I'm going to workon your footwork, your
interaction with the ground, andthen we'll worry about all the
way up here.
That would be like building ahouse before you build a
(13:39):
foundation.
So your golf shoe is paramountNow.
Golf shoes of the past uh, withthe, with the leather structured
spike shoes, let's just parkthose to the right and then take
these lightweight, sneaker likespikeless shoes that you're
(13:59):
like slipping and sliding rightit is you are and and the other
thing is is that when you wearsomething these, these
lightweight sneaker shoes andyou have a side hill downhill
lie, which we know, of course,isn't perfectly flat, your foot
is going to press out of thisshoe, it's going to move in the
shoe, and then your body hasthis internal GPS and if you
(14:25):
feel that that movement of yourfoot on a side hill, downhill
lie, it's kind of like whenyou're looking over a cliff.
When you're looking over acliff, your brain says, oh, and
your toes are going to grab theground.
And that's the same thing ingolf.
If you're in a side hilldownhill lie and your body feels
this imbalance, it's going tograb the ground and that's the
(14:45):
worst thing you can do is grabthe ground.
So when you look at thoselightweight sneaker-like shoes
over here and you look at thatleather-structured shoe with
great traction over here, youknow the lightweight sneaker was
like, hey, people feel it'smore comfortable, more
breathable, all of that.
Where the old shoe of yesterdaywas heavy, but it had the
(15:06):
structure, it had the traction.
Where the old shoe of yesterdaywas heavy, but it had the
structure, it had the traction.
What we did at Squares is.
We believe we've built theperfect confluence of that
lightweight sneaker like shoeand that structured spike shoe
of the past.
So we believe we have createdthis whole new category of shoe
(15:27):
which is really what I call theperfect hybrid.
So let me, let me kind of takeyou through that Number one.
This shoe weighs about 424grams.
If you look at the Adidas Tour360, you look at the FootJoy
Premier, the FootJoy Traditions,the G44 gallivan, this is
(15:48):
lighter than that.
So those performance shoes,where squares participates in
this performance shoe business,that we are the lightest of any
performance-based shoe in themarket.
So we took that light weightfrom that other category, that
sneaker like, put it into thisshoe without compromising
structure.
You can't twist this shoe.
(16:09):
It's got the structure.
The other thing we did is webuilt a hybrid traction pattern
so, as you can see, it's kind ofget that like spikeless look
with a couple of spikessprinkled in.
Now, where these spikes arelocated are directly under the
pressure points that, that, that, they that you exert the
greatest amount of pressure onthe ground.
(16:30):
So these, these arestrategically positioned.
But what makes this shoe fardifferent than any other shoe?
And we have done study of thestudy, of study about ground
force and about distance, thatthis shoe.
This shoe will outperform anyother shoe on the market
relative to distance.
And this is why is that withall shoes today they angle your
(16:53):
toes to the center of the shoeand your foot really operates as
a three-legged stool your thumb, your little toe and your heel.
And if you take and you startangling your toes to the center
of the shoe, you start losingbalance and stability.
You also start losing that feelfor the ground in your ability
to create ground force, becausewhen you start moving that in
(17:17):
like this, just think about howmuch ground force you can
produce with this kind of motionversus this kind of motion.
So the other thing is your bigtoe is like the steering wheel
of a car.
This gives you direction.
This accounts for most of theproduction in the golf swing is
your big toe.
But when you start reducingthat by moving it inwards, you
(17:40):
start reducing the foot functionand you also start reducing
balance and stability and groundforce production.
And again, this is allmeasurable with pressure mats.
So what Squares did is the restof what Squares did is we opened
up the toe box.
Now, this is not a wide shoe,all right, this is a normal D
(18:01):
width shoe.
But what we did is we opened upthe toe box from where the toes
meet the foot up in this area.
Only Now you would think thatthat's really not novel.
But when you think back to allthe shoes that have been
produced up to date, everythingangled your toes to the center
of the shoe.
But now, because of all theresearch that's out there and
(18:24):
all of the problems people havewith plantar fasciitis and all
of these foot problems, is thatpeople like Hoka, people like
Ultra people, like on runningeverybody has jumped into
opening up the toe box comeswith opening up the toe box.
(18:51):
So we opened up the toe box, but, as I mentioned, this is not a
wide shoe, but what we did wasjust the outsole only is we
widened the base under the ballof your foot by about four
millimeters.
This will give you even morebalance and stability.
But now you've got moretraction and more coverage of
the ground and more energyexchange with the ground.
(19:11):
The other thing we did is thisthis piece on the back of the
shoe, this external piece.
It runs externally and theninternally down along the plant,
the fascia, and this givestremendous art support, but it
also gives.
It gives that anti,anti-torsion, because you don't
want the shoe twisting.
The other little technique wedid is we put these little nubs
(19:35):
on the laces.
We did that because you wantthe foot to be one with the shoe
.
So what you do is you bringthis down, but you don't want it
loosening up, and so once youpull these laces tight, they
stay exactly where you put them.
Paul (19:52):
They put laces right, that's right.
Bob (19:55):
Yep.
So the other thing is that withthe toe box, there's more
comfort, there's more balance,there's more stability, more
ground production.
So what we did in golf golfreally pioneered ground force,
force plates, all of the scienceand technology, swing analysis.
Now other sports, like baseball, are finally finally catching
(20:18):
up.
Now we launched our baseballshoe back in October and we have
just been named the officialbaseball shoe of Perfect Game.
We've been named the officialbaseball shoe of perfect game.
We've been named the officialbaseball shoe of major league
baseball players association.
Minor league and major leaguebaseball players association, an
official partner of of all theplayers in the in in major
(20:40):
league baseball, we will haveover 250 players wearing the
shoe in baseball, and the wholereason is is that they did the
same type of research inbaseball and on average, in
major league baseball playersare picking up five miles an
hour and exit velocity.
Paul (20:56):
Now exit velocity.
Yeah, what does that mean?
Cause if you're not in abaseball like this is massive
right.
Bob (21:01):
This is game changing.
It is and and.
And.
If you think about it now, whydoes that happen?
How does it happen and I knowit sounds like a big number when
you say five miles an hour inexit velocity, now in pitching
it's 2.7 miles an hour.
On a fastball We've picked up2.7 miles an hour.
(21:24):
And this was independent studiesand in fact it's a medical,
clinical independent study andwe had a group of.
There was a group of orthopedicsurgeons and podiatrists got
together and were very intriguedabout the impact of shoe design
and structure as it relates tofoot function and performance,
(21:47):
and they did a study and it waspresented three weeks ago at the
American College in Foot andAnkle Surgeons Convention and it
won an award.
That our shoe won an award.
It was presented at thisrecognizable medical conference
that why they were so intriguedwas that this shoe promotes
(22:08):
proper foot function and thatproper foot function allows for
better or elevated performance.
And then we can measure thatelevated performance.
So in baseball it's a gamechanger because, if you think
about it, what happens with abaseball player?
They have a tendency of doingwhat they call varus of valgus
(22:29):
profile.
All right, now varus is pickingup your big toe.
All right, valgus is picking upyour little toe and if you
watch a lot of these players asthey get ready to swing, they
start picking their foot up andas they start picking that foot
up and the shoe is encouragingbecause that shoe doesn't have
structure or the design of thatshoe, so I can measure how much
(22:53):
that toe is up and how muchthey're losing in exit velocity.
So what I'm what I'm here tosay is that it's not that that
this shoe is is is giving themsomething they don't have.
What the shoe does is itreduces all of this anti-torsion
(23:13):
, it keeps their foot in aneutral position and it lets
them optimize their potential.
These guys that are picking upfive miles an hour in exit
velocity, they always had it,they just could never use it.
Paul (23:26):
Because of the way their foot is right yeah, exactly.
And the way they already have aproblem with.
Not a problem, but it's justhow they're built, right.
And then, on top of it, theshoe makes it even worse, right.
Bob (23:40):
It exacerbates it, it promotes that, you know that
inefficiency, it encourages itand it makes it worse.
And it was interesting I wastalking with Manny Rodriguez's
agent.
Manny's a pitcher for the Raysand so he was throwing
(24:00):
consistently 94 miles an hour,you know, in his Nikes.
And so I was talking to hisagent and I said to her I said
I'll tell you what I'll make youa bet.
To her I said I'll tell youwhat I'll make you a bet.
I'm going to send him theseshoes and he'll pick up at least
two miles an hour.
And so we made a bet.
In fact, she's a big pizza fan,I'm a pizza fan and so we're
(24:21):
talking, we said what are wegoing to bet?
And we said let's bet a pizza.
So we send the shoes to Manny.
About two weeks later I get anemail and the opening line of
the email was I owe you a pizza.
He hit 97-98 in his fastballjust by changing his shoes.
Now, like I said before, he'salways had that potential, but
(24:51):
the fact that those shoes werejamming his toes like this
balanced stability.
And I think Manny had a variousprofile, which means you know
if you look at your shoes andwhere you wear your shoes out.
You know you have a certainprofile and if you have a
various profile and you've got ashoe that encourages more of
that, you're losing a lot.
So you know it's our abilitywhen you're hitting, when you're
pitching, when you're runningis that balance and stability is
(25:14):
paramount.
So when I launched Squares, itwas really all about one thing.
It was a premise that I said ifI can improve your balance and
your stability, you will hit theball farther and straighter,
because balance and stabilityhas a direct relationship with
dispersion, same with distancethat if I can give you more
(25:35):
balance, you will hit it farther, and we can measure that today.
So you know it's all aboutground force, it's all about the
production of it and then howmuch you use.
And this year we really focusedin on, you know, a very classy,
clean design.
(25:55):
And then we really worked ontaking weight out of the shoe.
Now, when you take weight outof the shoe, usually taking
weight out means takingstructure out.
So that's the delicate balance,that's the engineering that
went into this shoe, withmaterials and internal structure
that we were able to take outof the shoe.
Last year we were 491 grams.
(26:15):
This year we're 424.
So taking out of 50 grams, which50-something grams, which is
almost, you know, two and a halfounces.
We've taken out almost two anda half ounces.
So it's something that you knoweverybody is talking about
today is the golf shoe and howto use the ground better.
(26:36):
And in fact, I was watching thegolf channel the other night
and there was something on thereabout rory talking about
working with the designers atnike to customize the shoe based
upon his foot profile.
You know, scotty Scheffler hadthe same kind of situation where
they filmed him working withthem to customize the shoe, and
(26:59):
even I think JT was on the othernight talking about his foot
choice.
So you know it's something thatwe have as a footwear company.
We pioneered, really, in golffootwear.
Paul (27:11):
We pioneered this whole thing about allowing the toes to
sit naturally, producing moreenergy, more balance, more
stability, and now everybody'sstarting to catch up to us well,
it's just crazy too, becauseand until people are really
understanding what's the sciencebehind it and the numbers and
you start to really it's likeholy crap, you know, not just
(27:34):
for baseball, I mean initiallyfor golf, but now it's like not
just golf, now it's baseball,now it's pickleball.
Bob (27:40):
It's like the same theory any sport you're on your feet
pretty much could this, couldhelp somebody absolutely,
because balance and stability inany land-based sport is
paramount, because you can'toptimize your performance
without optimizing your use ofthe ground.
It's something we all know thatyou've just got to be able to
(28:06):
use the ground better and moreefficiently, and if you can do
that, you'll play at a muchhigher level.
So someone's asking a questionMaybe you can do that.
Um, you'll play at a muchhigher level.
Paul (28:13):
So someone's asking a question.
Maybe you can look at thisquestion here.
This guy's asking can squaresbring a 2e wide to a size 7 for
a golf shoe, because it onlygoes with a size 9 I don't think
we are the the answer.
Bob (28:26):
The answer is yes, we, we, we have gotten enough, gotten a
lot of requests for E's in thelower size.
Paul (28:36):
What does that mean for dummies like me?
I don't know what that means.
Bob (28:38):
All right, so E is width.
So there's a normal D width andthen you have an E width and
then they have what they calltwo, three, four E's.
It's just the width.
This person probably has a wideball under their foot, you know
wide base of their foot.
So, uh, with even with our, alot of people try to buy width
with length of the shoe, whichis weird, right, because?
(29:00):
Then their foot's moving in theshoe.
But you know that was reallytheir only option for years is
trying to buy that yeah, I justand, and, so now the industry
has really really focused onthis.
So the answer is yes, we will beaddressing this.
Paul (29:17):
I guess what made you guys move into baseball.
Like when did you realize?
Like whoa baseball?
Because I mean initially youstarted in golf, but did
baseball become becausepickleball came before baseball,
right, and then no, actually.
Bob (29:28):
Wait, wait, wait, no, yes, you are correct, you are correct
.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, no, yes, you are correct, you are
(29:56):
correct.
But it's kind of an interestingstory is that we started
designing, developing apickleball shoe because we saw
you know, we really saw thecrossover play pickleball and we
designed this shoe and we madeprobably, I think, a size nine
to a 13.
And we have a gentleman namedPhil Stoddard who's a ground
force expert, does a lot of workwith the Cincinnati Reds and a
lot of other major leaguebaseball players and teams, and
so Phil says hey, can you sendme down some of those pickleball
like shoes that you develop?
We sent them down at Phil.
(30:16):
Phil took them because heunderstood our golf shoe and how
it really helps put people in aneutral position, balanced
ability.
His mindset, unbeknownst to me,was to take it to the Reds
training camp, and so we took itover to the training camp and
started training these kids inthe shoes.
And he calls me one night.
He goes Bob, you're not goingto believe what I'm seeing here.
(30:37):
I mean I got kids that arepicking up five, six miles an
hour in exit velocity.
I mean I got pitchers that arepicking up three miles an hour
in their fastball just bychanging the shoes out.
He says I think you gotsomething here in baseball.
And so you know I didn't takethe bait.
I went for about another yearand he kept pushing me.
And then he says look, you dome a favor, can you make like
(31:00):
three or four you know moldedshoes?
Because we were making like aturf, you know, and that's
what's the pickleball shit?
You know the pickleball.
And so I did, and same thinghappened.
He calls me back, bob.
I got guys asking for him, Igot to get you know, and that's
how it really started and Ifinally just said hey, if I can
(31:21):
see this kind of data coming outof the same data coming out of
baseball as I did golf, then whynot?
So then I brought on somebodyto do all the testing.
Louisville Slugger's hittingand science center did all of
this testing about ground forceproduction, exit, velocity,
throwing, velocities, running,and, and so we got into baseball
(31:46):
.
And then about three monthslater we we launched in December
of last year, you know, welaunched our pickleball shoe.
Paul (31:54):
This is amazing how it's developing so fast, because this
technology is so revolutionarythat I don't know.
I think baseball is going to bebigger than golf.
That's what I think personally.
Bob (32:05):
Well, you certainly.
I think you're right too,because there's certainly, you
know, the fun part aboutbaseball is that you know, we
sell to a lot of teams, you know, and instead of selling one
golfer out there, I sell to, youknow, 20 something kids and
then, as you know, as a parentand somebody has somebody in
baseball is that they need, theyneed a molded and they need a
(32:27):
turf, or they need a molded turfand metal.
Paul (32:30):
So there's three, you know , and then and it's a kid their
feet are growing right andthey're going to destroy them in
the next four months.
And you know one pair of golfshoes that you use for three
years, right?
Bob (32:46):
So you know golf is, you know golf is great.
I love golf.
It's a testing ground.
It's a testing ground.
Paul (32:53):
Yeah, I mean for a lot of products.
I figure, like I mean, it works.
The technology works,regardless of what sport, and I
bet you're going to figure outsome other way of using it for
some other sport too, annoyingyou.
You know what I mean.
Oh, we could use it forbasketball, who knows?
I have no idea.
But like this, something elsethat, like I don't know, I think
(33:13):
the technology is, it's.
Bob (33:15):
But I think for golf, you know, I I have got a tremendous
passion, as you know, for golfand if I could, if I could, talk
to every golfer in the UnitedStates or around the world, I
would say everybody thinks thegolf shoe is just a fashion
statement.
Everybody thinks the golf shoeis just a fashion statement.
Everybody wants to look good,sure enough.
But the golf shoe reallyfacilitates all the key
(33:39):
fundamentals of the swing andwithout balance and stability
and ground connection, you gotnothing.
Everything else is compensation.
From that point forward, you'recompensating.
You may become really good atcompensating, but that's why the
golf, the tour pros, don'tcompensate.
They've got this, this wholeregimen down.
(34:00):
They can repeat it, repeat it,repeat it.
So you know they focus on that.
They are always on pressuremats are all on swing speeds.
They're all looking at, atcertain points of the swing, how
balanced they are, if they'reon their toes, the heels or
whatever.
I would tell every golfer thatis listening to this that give
it a shot, go out and get a pairof squares.
Get on a pressure mat or swingspeed monitor and you will show
(34:24):
yourself.
You will feel instantly.
This is the beauty of theseshoes.
Paul (34:28):
You're going to see it.
You're going to be like whatthe F?
Yeah?
Same change on your body, right?
Bob (34:36):
That's what you're doing with your feet.
Right and just put them on,you'll instantly feel the
stability number one.
Number two is you will havethis feeling that you can go
after it because you feel thatstable, that connected to the
ground.
The other thing is you will seethe distance.
You will see them on the golfcourse.
Wear them for 30 days and ifyou don't like them, if they
(35:07):
don't do everything we say, youcan send them back.
There's not too many companiesout there that will do that.
Once you wear them, you ownthem.
Well, once you wear them,they'll charge you a 30%
restocking fee or something likethat.
I am so confident in the data.
We have over 40 somethingpapers published on the design
(35:28):
of our shoe, most of which aremedical clinical papers and the
function.
We've got a medical advisoryboard of podiatrists four
podiatrists, no threepodiatrists, three orthopedic
surgeon and a gentleman who ownsthe largest physical therapy
practice in the United States.
(35:49):
They've got over 3,000locations and you don't get
these type of people unless theytest it, they validate it,
because they're not going to puttheir name.
They're not going to put theirname on that shit.
There's no way, nope, and andthat's why you know it's it's
sometimes hard to market what wehave in this shoe and and you
(36:10):
know we all have a limitedattention span, but you know,
coming on a podcast like thiswhere I can tell the whole story
and hopefully it's entertainingenough, so somebody listens to
Will's story is that, hey look,there's nothing more important
than your golf shoe.
And the last thing I'd say ismy golf spy did a study, I think
it was like two years ago.
(36:31):
They took the five bestperforming drivers and they took
and they added a driver thatwas five years old into the mix
and they tested all thesedrivers and they boiled it down
to five drivers and thedifference between number one
and three was less than a yard.
All right in in times ofdistance, all right so same
(36:53):
shaft, same head, sameeverything.
I think it was less than oneyard in the top three.
It's less than three yards inthe top five.
The second best, second bestperforming driver was the one
that was five years old.
It's hilarious.
And then you match up with thefact that in 2018, it was 226.3
yards average driving distanceand in 2023, it was 225, a loss
(37:20):
of 1.3 yards.
The only thing that's changedis the golf shoe.
Over this time, the market wentto 63 percent to this.
It's starting to really startto come back now, because people
are finally realizing that athis is hurting your game, but b
is companies like us.
They can give you thatlightweight, that comfortability
(37:42):
, without compromisingperformance.
Paul (37:46):
Yeah, I've always been a fan, like you know that, like
I've seen the technology, butthen even, like I've talked to,
some other people have used itthat are in the professional
field and they're like, dude, itdoes work.
I'm like, yeah, no shit, you'rea lot.
Bob (38:03):
I think you said it exactly that way too, I really probably
did say that.
Paul (38:06):
I'm like thanks, Watson, when can people find Squares?
Bob (38:14):
You can visit our website, squares S-Q-A-I-R-Z squarescom.
We're also available.
The golf is available worldwidegolf.
They're on PGA tour scorescom.
Our baseball is on dickscom, so, but our website, if you go to
(38:35):
our website, which is squarescom, you can see everything there
and, like I said, give it a tryand after 30 days it doesn't do
everything we say it does.
Paul (38:44):
You can send it back well, outside of all the tech and all
the cool shit, like you guysare keeping refining the shoe
too, like the way it looks right, like from where you were in
2019, 2020 to now.
Like the shoes works the samebut they're getting more, it
looks different and it's gettingrefined and it's like that's
(39:04):
cool, you know honestly, paul,because we listen.
We listen to people we wereknocking like, oh yeah, it looks
like.
Now it's like, dude, theseshoes look badass yeah people
were saying, hey, I don't likethe looks.
Bob (39:17):
You know, it's too heavy, you know, and so you know.
What we do is we start.
I work here and I've got moreshoes sitting around me than you
can imagine and I look at themall day long and I sit here and
I think how can I make thisbetter?
What little nuance can I do?
Do I add more cushioning on thecollar here?
Do I?
You?
Paul (39:37):
know that's a baseball shoe right.
Yeah that's a baseball shoe.
Bob (39:43):
That's going baseball shoe, right, yeah, that's a baseball
shoe that's going to blow up,bro, I can tell you right now.
Yeah, you know.
The other thing too is thisyear we did was a premium
microfiber upper, and microfiberis great because microfiber is
100% waterproof, so it doesn'tlet water in, but it lets
perspiration and moisture out,and so you know that
breathability is critical.
The other thing we do is we sewour tongue all the way down
(40:07):
because water wants to bounceinto the shoe through the tongue
.
So this shoe is literallywaterproof all the way up to the
top in the baseball shoebaseball shoe, yeah, in the
baseball shoe and our, our golfshoe, yep, yep well, I knew the
golf shoe because it has thisscupper.
Paul (40:23):
Did you guys call it yeah?
Bob (40:25):
this upper material is a microfiber upper, and again we
sew the gusset on either side.
Paul (40:30):
That's it.
That's what it was.
Yeah, so it's waterproof likethere's no way water's gonna get
in that bad boy no, not at all.
Bob (40:35):
In fact, I did a video last year.
I put my foot, I had both feetin the lake, soaking in the the
lake and all the way up to hereI took my shoe off and showed my
feet were still dry, my sockswere still dry.
They're 100% waterproof.
Two-year guarantee on thewaterproof.
Paul (40:53):
That's so cool.
I'm proud of you.
I think it's cool as shit.
Dude, you're crushing it and Ilove it how you're moving
outside of golf and like thebaseball and the pickleball,
it's like I don't know a lot offoresight there just to see.
Bob (41:06):
Yeah, as we were talking before, I don't think I've met I
think I've met one pitcher thatpitches in the MLB that doesn't
play golf.
These guys love golf, so it'syou know.
Paul (41:16):
I get, I get them.
They're always hanging me.
Hey, can I?
Bob (41:18):
get a pair of golf shoes.
You know, hey, can I get a pairof golf shoes?
Yeah, no problem.
Yeah, I just did a shoe forRoger Clemens Actually, it was
this shoe and we put the Rocketman logo on the back of the shoe
here for him.
Yeah, he's a big golfer and, ofcourse, great pitcher, an
amazing pitcher, he's the.
Paul (41:40):
GOAT, one of the GOATs, yep.
Well, thank you for being onthe show today.
You guys got to check outSquares.
It's the real deal.
Bob's awesome, bob's awesome.
So, but, thank you, Be on theshow and I'll see you guys in
the next episode.
Bob (41:55):
Thanks, Paul Appreciate it.
Thanks, Paul Appreciate it.
(42:05):
Thanks, paul, appreciate it.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.