May 17, 2021 • 44 mins
We made it to Episode 47 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. In this week's episode, I interview my good friends Andrew Redvanly from Redvanly Golf Apparel.
REDVANLY is a modern-day tale of two young guys’ bootstrap grind, family and friends hustle to build a brand and New Age family business that had more than relevancy. It was born from heart, soul, ambition, vision and passion for sport. Andrew, a hockey player, played team sports through his collegiate career. Shortly after graduation, he found himself on the court or links, with every spare moment he had. It was then he conceived the idea for a premier active wear brand, intended for those competing inside of the individual sports categories.
Soon after, he left his job at a prestigious sports talent agency to go back to caddying to pursue his dreams and to start REDVANLY. Before long, his pharmaceutical sales rep cousin, David, became the brand's sole investor while also leading sales going from doctors' offices to golf shops. They built the company from scratch, fueled by the desire to conceptualize a brand for athletes, which was actualized by athletes.
Belief and passion remain the cousins', and now brothers' and friends' driving force to drop everything, bootstrap a brand from scratch and truly achieve their goals.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Today we play golf.
Let me show you how we do it inthe pros.
Welcome to behind the golf grandpodcast.
I've never missed with the sevennine a conversation with some of
the most interesting innovatorsand entrepreneurs behind the
biggest names in golf.
My plans were the golf clubs.
I lived on the golf course.
I lived on the driving rangefrom pro talk.
You should learn something eachand every single round you play
(00:23):
to fun from on and off thegreen.
Why would you play golf?
You don't play it for money.
Just let me put the ball in thehole.
This is behind the golf brandpodcast.
With Paul libertory behind thegolf brand podcast is sponsored
by OnPoint.
The revolutionarythree-dimensional dome golf ball
marker on point provides alayman recognition as small as a
(00:47):
degree of inaccuracy from theplanned course of the putt face
angle endorsed by Jim Furich usopen champion and 17 time PGA
tour winner on point alignmenttechnology has been proven to
increase putting performance andhelp lower your score.
Visit OnPoint golf dot U S, andbe sure to use code GA 10 for a
10% discount on point, make moreputts.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What's up guys, Paul from golfers authority.
Welcome to the behind the golfbrand podcast.
This week, I have my new friend,Andrew red, Bandley AKA Dutchman
from Rodin league apparel.
I call him the Dutch and I thinkmy only first night calls on
that.
But, um, so here's the story.
(01:30):
My family is freaking coolclothes.
Let me start right that, um,they sent me some clothes and it
blew my mind.
I was like, I don't really eversay that with apparel.
I was like, oh yeah, that'sgreat.
No, for real, it's like, they'remy new favorite short by far.
Paul's really cool too.
That's all they sent me cause itgets hot out, but I can't wait
to learn more about these guys.
(01:52):
Um, we actually kind of run thesame circles.
That's kinda how we met eachother.
There was an email with a bunchof same people and I was like,
Hey, we should talk.
So anyways, without further ado,welcome to the show veteran.
Thanks Paul.
I appreciate the kind words.
So the first time I talked tohim, we were like talking for
like an hour or two.
And then I was like, are youItalian?
And he's like, no, he's like,I'm Dutch.
(02:14):
And I'm like, okay, you're theDutchman now?
So that's like Lily out.
Like, does he know him as a,like them?
If I call him a Dutch guy, it'sa pretty good nickname.
I got to like, it, it soundslike scary, but like, bad-ass
like, you should be like on thatsailing vessel.
(02:36):
Yeah.
We all kind of noticed anypeople.
That's how we met.
It was very, it was love atfirst sight.
We're like, oh, don't know eachother.
Why are we on the same emailchains?
So without what is red valleywithout going into too much
detail?
Yeah.
We, um, were looking modernathletic wear brand that kind of
was built and started guys thatwere now competing in individual
(03:02):
sports.
I think, um, uh, you know, I wasa hockey player all throughout,
you know, throughout college.
And then, you know, once, once,um, once, you know, you start
getting back into the well, notback into when you start your
next life of getting a job andyou know, living on your own,
all those sorts of things aftercollege, I think, you know, I
(03:22):
found myself starting to play alot more golf or tennis, you
know, in friends, you know,going to Equinox and gyms and
hiking and just you're doingsomething athletic, but usually
you're doing it on your own oron your own time because we're,
you know, obviously gettingbusier.
So long story short was wewanted to build this brand for,
um, kind of like your next partof your, you know, life in terms
(03:44):
of, you know, competing inindividual sports.
And, um, that's kind of wherelike the thought came from and
that's kind of the, the kind oforigin this guy's.
Guy's cool.
He's a hustler.
I must be, first of all, I don'teven get hockey.
We're just playing hockey.
Yeah.
Suffolk university in Boston.
What position did you play?
(04:05):
Uh, at that point?
Nice.
So your left lane, it was reallylefty.
Well, yeah, like hockey is, youknow, I'm a writer and
everything else, but like withhockey, we think about when you
hold the stick, right?
Like you shoot right.
You shoot left.
I shoot on the left side of mybody.
But the put your right handactually is holding the top part
of the stick.
So think about if you're holdinglike a hockey stick.
So I was the opposite way.
(04:25):
I was, I was the right way.
Yeah.
It's, it's weird.
Hockey is like the one sportwhere you get like 50, 50 on
people from the left or theright side, because your right
hand is still dominant on the,on the, um, the top of the
stick.
So it just kind of depends on, Icould like dribble or you're
going to call it, you know, Ican't remember the name of it.
(04:46):
The candle stick handle earlyIrish shut up.
So I could do that.
No problem.
But I always, always Iraqi under, I love hockey hockey.
Like when I grew up, there'sonly three ice rinks in Arizona.
So I mean, that was nothing.
And I was one of the few peopleactually played hockey out here.
I played late.
I started playing like juniorhigh and I like fell in love
(05:07):
with the sport.
I was like, where has this been?
My whole life.
You know, you probably were thereason why, uh, Austin Matthews
started to play.
Probably the reason why youasked and he saw you and said, I
got to get going on.
That it's exactly what he said.
And he was like, oh, it's thisfat dude on the ice.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna skate likehim.
Um, so like my friends out of it, if I don't listen to podcasts,
(05:29):
but it's okay.
Um, I friend Stefan was on theshow and um, he's one of the
partners in alignment pro and Ididn't even know that he was an
NHL player.
Like we were talking and he'slike, oh, that was in the
neutral.
And I was like, oh, that's cool.
And then, then his other partwas like, yeah, he was really
good.
And I was like, oh yeah, howgood was he?
And he's like, well, we playedlike 15 years.
(05:50):
He went to stealing cups and Iwas like, oh yeah, I be on that
dudes do it.
And so then Stefan yeller whoplayed for the lanch.
And so he goes away for Bostonand a couple of other teams, he
cracks me up like this and thatwhole podcast, all we'll do is
we're talking back and forth,but I'm like, it's so funny out.
(06:11):
And I still, like, I lovehockey.
Like in the nineties, I wastotally addicted to hockey.
Like after that kind of, youknow, like you said, right, you
go to college phase two of yourlife.
Right.
And so I know all the players inthe nineties and I'm like, oh,
do you know this guy alreadyknow this guy?
He's like, oh yeah.
I'm like, well, who's thehardest player to play it
against.
He's like, Mario Lemieux arey'all ready, auger.
(06:33):
Like,[inaudible] was reallyhard.
I was like, I was like, holycrap.
He's just like the guy that Iwas like, and then he's like,
he's at a golf tournament.
And he's like, oh yeah, it wasthere.
Oh, he's, I'll use like, I'llplay golf with Marty McSorley.
And I'm like, I know that is heplayed for the Kings.
I'm like a total, like, it's a,that's funny, but you can drop
those lanes.
(06:56):
So.
Okay.
So did you, where'd you grow upin New Jersey, right?
Yeah.
I grew up in Northern New Jerseyabout like 15 miles from like
the city.
The city.
Yeah.
Did you play golf, like growingup or just like for fun?
Yeah.
I mean, I probably startedplaying golf, I would say like
maybe when I was like 10 or 11and I, you know, had no idea
really, you know, kinda justlike hockey player type of
(07:17):
thing.
Like I'm going to swing and, youknow, and I still have a little
bit, I'm trying to work on, uh,work on that finally with some,
some guys and they can kind ofcorrect that, but, um, yeah, it
was something that I alwaysenjoyed the game.
I really, really enjoy it thepast, like six or seven play
with your dad.
Not really, you know, my dadplayed once in a while, but it
wasn't, um, it wasn't reallylike his sport, so I don't
(07:42):
really know he was a, you know,football, baseball, basketball,
you know, kind of like yourtraditional, um, your
traditional sports, but I don'tknow.
I think I just somehow wanted tokind of get into it a little bit
and um, I think I just fell inlove with it, you know, it's,
it's just a great gameobviously, and it's, it's
frustrating.
And, um, everyone knows all theins and outs about why they like
(08:04):
golf, but yeah, I think, youknow, in terms of, you know,
probably with the next questionback to like the brand, the
brand, and I felt like we, Ithink golf and tennis and those
forests that we kind of pickedout were, were sports that we
can kind of go a little above,like the, you know, kind of like
your base brand clothing andsay, Hey, we can make this a
(08:26):
little bit better.
We can do this a little bitdifferently.
I think anytime with a businessit's always easier to, to be
better and to, to improve, um,and to be more niche than try to
compete with some of theconglomerates and say, Hey,
we're just going to come up withlike a, a cheaper product or
maybe like something that's alittle bit less, I think, cause
then you're going to kind of,you're going to lose that way.
(08:47):
And I think, you know, the golfindustry, you know, the price
points, you know, you know,everybody's in like a, you know,
any decent brand, you know, fora polo, you're looking like$75.
Right, right.
So it's a sport where I thinkyou can kind of do that.
If you were doing likebasketball clothes, it's really
tough because you know, you'recompeting now with like pants
(09:08):
and stuff and like, well, you'rejust making it, you're just
making a team.
You're making like a, a t-shirtthat could be sold at, you know,
for like$17.
And then when you find out thatthe factory says, Hey, we can do
it for nine.
Whereas where are we making?
Like, and then you're competingwith those huge brands.
So I think it was a good sportto kind of sit there and say,
Hey, I think we can hit a marginthat we needed to.
(09:29):
And I think we can do somethingreally cool.
So what year did you graduatecollege?
Uh, 2009 oh nine.
And then what was your degree inlike marketing marketing, and
then like, did you get a job inthe city?
So right after school, I was, um, applying for a gig, um, out in
(09:53):
Los Angeles at, um, a hugetalent agency called, uh,
creative artists agency, whichthey're known for, um,
primarily, you know, Hollywoodtalent music, and, you know,
they, they like rep Brad Pitt,George Clooney, all those types
of people, but then they boughtout a sport division of, I think
it might've been at the time,um, IgM could potentially, and
(10:18):
they, and they just moved theirwhole sports agency into CAA.
And so the guy that was the headof the hockey department was now
out in Los Angeles.
So throughout college, I was,you know, I, I made sure of
doing as much, like, that's whatI thought I wanted to do.
I thought I want to be as asports agent specifically in
the, you know, the, for the NHLplayers and the law school.
(10:40):
Well, that's what everybody kindof, you know, was, was
mentioning.
And I'm kind of glad I didn't.
Cause you know, now, now I'm notdoing it or I would have been
doing the same thing just fouryears of, of money, dollar done
a lot.
But, um, but yeah, that's what Ihad, but this is when the
recession was kind of goingdown.
So I was waiting for that gigfor like, I got accepted for the
(11:00):
job, but then I had to wait likesix, seven months.
I thought I was going out thereand then it never went through
due to everything that went on.
So I went to law school too.
Cause I was like, I wasn't alawyer.
I'm going to go to law schoolnow it a good time because
there's like literally no jobs.
Yeah.
Like for ELLs.
Yeah.
So then you're going to move outthere and you waited seven
(11:22):
months, like just kind ofwaiting and times like yeah, it
was in like a really weird,yeah.
It was kinda like, you know,caddying and just making some
cash and then just waiting andwaiting.
And then eventually there was aguy, a sports agent near, um,
kind of close to where I grew upand he was, you know, small,
small time, you know, agent, buthad a few good guys.
And I had kind of like internslash like semi part-time work
(11:45):
with him.
And um, I think that's kind ofwhere I started realizing, like
I don't really think I want toput the amount of effort that I,
I would need to and into likejust not just the work, but
actually just like getting intothis business.
And um, and then I worked for atalent agency in New York called
Gersh and they are, um, youknow, again, like a pretty,
(12:07):
fairly big, uh, you know, actorsand musicians and kind of that
sort of a talent.
And I went there and thought,oh, maybe I'd like it on this
side.
But actually I was like, oh mygoodness, this is way harder
than being a sports agent.
Because like, you gotta rememberlike these guys, like if you
like rap, you know, let's justsay you have like, uh, you know,
Brad Pitt, right.
(12:27):
You're reading like 15 scripts aweek and, and it just never
ends.
Right?
Like there's just so much stuffcoming.
Would you never think that whenyou're like, you know, you
wouldn't ever do that would be ajob, right?
You might think, oh, Brad Pittplaces on his couch all day,
look at scripts.
Like, no, he'd be like, right.
Everybody's got an agent readinghim, telling them, Hey, you
(12:47):
should read this one after Ijust read 15 only one's a good
one.
And then like, but like for asports agent, it's kind of like,
once you're in, it's a dream jobis like, oh, it's like a, you
know, you're sitting there andyou're going like, oh, Bryce
Harper, you just signed a 12year contract with the Phillies
for a billion dollars.
So, all right, I'll see you in12 years and we'll work out, you
know, another contract and hemakes like 1% or 3%.
(13:10):
And that's how it works.
They make a present age, I knowup to 10.
So it's like.
Right.
And then you're done onecontract and he's like, I don't
need to really deal with priceor I'll be at rented.
Okay.
He's probably got a team of guysthat work on his marketing
contracts and you know, thingslike that.
But in terms of the negotiationof, you know, the Phillies and
him, that's done he's and it'snot like he's gotta read scripts
(13:31):
or he's gotta like, keepchecking it like these good once
that contract signed.
So there is a lot of like, Ithink, uh, but anyways, long
story short, I realized I didn'treally want, like, I don't want
to do this.
And that's when I kind offigured there's really no jobs
and I want to do what I want todo.
Like, this is kind of like thetime to do something.
(13:53):
So that was kind of the push.
So what year was that?
I think it was around like agrad, probably two years after
graduation.
I realized like, okay, I'm justgoing to start a brand.
I had no idea what I was doing.
I didn't really know exactlywhat the, you know, I just
didn't really know much besidesI'm like, Hey, I don't care.
I'm gonna do something on myown.
I have to, because nobody elseis hiring.
Right.
Like I think it was one of thosespots where I've always kind of
(14:15):
wanted to do something on myown, but this pushed me a lot
earlier on because nobody wasgiving me like an option a, that
would be like, I'll do thisthing later.
Like there was no, there reallyweren't many jobs in the ones
that you can get.
The pay was like pretty muchworse than cap, worse than
caddying.
So you're sitting there going, Ican go up to the club on a
weekend and make more money thanI'd be making in two days on
(14:38):
like a salary job.
So it just kind of the rest ofthe week off to like do
something else.
Exactly, exactly.
So it really did help with likean, I did that for a while.
I was even like in the first fewyears in the brand caddying and
just kind of like using that aslike a, some sort of an income
to kind of continue, I guess youcan call it the dream of like
doing your own thing.
And, um, yeah.
(14:59):
So you have two partners, right?
Um, I, I have one, my, my cousinand then also my brother just,
um, got involved in the businessabout two years ago, so, okay.
So I know it was like you andEric and Dave or so then who
started it with Dave or error?
It was, um, it was kind of likeone of those things where at the
(15:22):
time, um, that I was starting abrand, I was living with Dave
and, um, we always been superclose, uh, more and more like
friends as opposed to cousins.
Yeah.
And, and we, um, you know, hewas working in pharma sales and
I told him about this and, um,and he was a, this is awesome.
I'm all in.
And the other, there was one ofthose situations where it was
(15:43):
like, Hey, I'm going to kind oflike continue to work the day
job until the company is readyfor me to kind of like, um, jump
on board.
And I'm like, okay, cool.
I'm going to just do everythingwe can to get us to that point.
And so I kind of like operatedthe company for a few years,
pretty much on my own.
And, um, and then we started togain more people and they've
(16:04):
jumped ship, you know, jumpedship.
And my brother came on board andwe have, you know, a bunch of
other good people now with usand really started to build it
up.
But those first few years werejust kind of like, you know, uh,
uh, a complete, like learningslash grind slash like, just,
it's almost like if you want itto start a business, you kind of
like my opinion is dive into it.
(16:24):
Right.
Like you're going to fail andyou're going to like fall down.
But if you do it small enough,there's no better experience
than actually just likecatapulting yourself into it and
learning it and kind of beinglike, because now we're sitting
here like seven, eight years inand we're like, we really, you
know, we don't know everything,but I know so much.
(16:44):
I feel like I've been in theindustry for 35 years.
And I think like, that reallyhelped those first three or four
years of just kind of like, youknow, being so small, but also
being able to kind of like, youknow, mistakes we're, we're not
magnified as much.
So then how did you, like, youguys are just a bunch of
hustlers, right?
Yeah.
You can say that for sure.
You know, that's the key, right?
(17:04):
Because it's hard, this, this ishard.
The guy, I didn't realize howhard it was until you start your
own stuff.
Right.
Like making content that's easy.
That's easy.
Well, not really, but, but whenyou actually have a product,
that's hard because it's like,now you have competition on all
these other things that you'dnever really thought you would
have.
Right.
Or like does yeah.
(17:26):
With the eyes on products.
And so many people making thesame thing, it's you have to be
a hustler.
You do.
Right.
And I looked at what's cool.
You guys is like, if you look atis, if you go to Bailey's
website, you'll see like thirdsold mini golf courses.
It's ridiculous.
And they're like, not like somelittle muni that no one's heard
of.
It's like, there are nicecourses and that's not easy to
(17:47):
do to get those clients.
So was green grass, like how youguys initially started out or
were you, or are you online?
Yeah, well, we, we had an onlinestore, but I would say our
business at that point for thefirst few years was almost
entirely, um, Greengrass andwholesale.
I think that, um, you know,we're looking back at it, you
(18:08):
know, I don't think we were in asense big enough to kind of have
like the online presence that wehave now.
And, but like, I think we weregood enough to get into a lot of
shops that wanted to testsomething new that they wanted
to bring a few shirts in view,you know, bring, you know,
something that, that wasdifferent.
So I think we really, um, honedin on that for a while.
(18:29):
And now, um, it's, it's been anice growth of, you know, we've
seen the wholesale businessreally grow in the past couple
of years.
And, um, and then the onlinebusiness now is, you know,
pretty much equal to, and withinthe next year it'll be, you
know, probably double it, whichis kind of where we want to be.
(18:50):
I think we want to have like a,you know, a really good
wholesale business that, that,um, makes money, but also does a
good job of getting your productout there with the right
partners and, you know, um,accounts.
And then also like a reallystrong cause obviously everyone
knows, you know, either youronline businesses where you
really make the money.
Um, but at the same time to thewholesale business, I think
(19:10):
really does assist with that interms of, you know, especially,
especially on the golf side,like golf is great, cause it's
like, it's a golf shop, right.
Like, you know, every dudewalking in there plays golf.
So like whether he's your exact,you know, customer, you know,
you think about like, if peoplealready like narrowed it down to
the buyer, I mean, it's going tobe what age that's about it.
(19:33):
Right.
Like, exactly.
So it is a very fine niche, likestore to like, okay.
And usually they're not thatbig, so you're going in there
and you've got like six or sevenmaybe choices for men's brands.
So it's like, it's like a gusta,right.
Or some like, you know, cheap,you know, like, you know, I'm
(19:53):
talking about like, it's cheapshirts polo with like courses,
you know, embroidered on there,you know, it's like a dollar
polo and now it's like$50.
I was like, you ever reallyaware that that's what you get
for free, you know, like atournament.
So it's like, it's, it's kind ofcool, like that kind of sale.
Right.
(20:14):
Because then people are actuallygetting cool stuff.
For sure.
For sure.
So then how many, like initiallyyou're doing green grass and
then is that what you guys werejust focusing on while slowly
building the online presencethen?
Correct.
I think we were taking likesmall bites out of the apple in
terms of, um, you know, what wewould be doing marketing wise,
how much we would be spending,you know, a lot of things.
(20:37):
Um, along those lines that we'reat a sense at the time, a little
scary for, you know, a brandthat, um, you know, we, we, you
know, to this day, you know, wenever raised any money.
We, we don't have, um, you know,funding from, you know, some
open, you know, checkbook.
And I think, you know, westarted this thing knowing like,
Hey, you know, we can go out ofbusiness.
(20:57):
You know, we can, if we, if thisdoesn't work, you know, we could
be in a position.
Yeah.
You're back just onpharmaceuticals and on back.
So, so we basically a little bittook, you know, said, Hey,
listen, we know on the wholesalebusiness, it's very simple in
terms of like, figuring out whatwe need to order, what sold, how
much money we made.
It was very kind of ABC.
Right.
(21:17):
And I think the online was kindof like, wait a second.
How is this going to work?
And are we going to make money?
Um, and you know, are we readyto really?
Cause I think with the onlinebusiness, um, for anybody, you
know, there's, there's thesefunnels, right?
Like you need to be like onpoint and every area, your
website needs to be phenomenal.
Your product needs to bephenomenal.
(21:37):
Your ads need to be reallystrong.
Your email marketing needs to beawesome.
Your, and then these funnels andhow you kind of just keep it
going to gain more.
People are kind of it's.
So it's so much work.
Like you can't almost start abrand, you know, everyone sorts
of brand like every day and theythrow it up and it's like, you
got the coolest product in theworld, but no one's ever going
(21:58):
to find you.
Yeah.
Or, or you might just not be, Ithink the thing too is like, I
think that, um, you know, it's abuild up, right?
Like, you know, if you're juststarting something and you have
like, you know, seven products,you know?
Yeah.
It might be harder for you togain that person to get products
(22:18):
.
Exactly.
So you might have to godifferent, you might have to
start small and try and get afew accounts to take it.
Right.
Like, and make it a little bitbetter.
See when you're buying stuff.
Right.
It's not once it's like, whenyou actually have stuff in your
garage, you spent cash for, andnow it's like a whole other
stress level.
Right.
Because now it's like, well,that's money.
I spent, it's tied up.
My capital is tied up in theseproducts.
(22:40):
No, it's it's um, it is true.
I think when you have all that,that kind of going through your
head, you know, you're gonnamake sure that you make some
safer decisions.
So I think that's kind of wherewe were.
And um, and then, but we, weknew that online was where we
needed to be and we just kepttrying to work with the right
people and like start to reallyfigure out, Hey, how, when did
(23:04):
we start, you know, putting the,you know, the end of the foot to
the pedal there a little bitmore.
And um, and now I think we'vegotten to a spot where it's
like, again, it's just likeanything else, you do it for a
few years and you really startto learn and you really start to
see what's working.
And then you start gettingdialed in and not saying it.
That is exactly you can't, youcan't just figure it out on a
piece of paper.
Right.
You have to literally do it andsucceed or fail, succeed, or
(23:26):
fail.
And then like, you slowly startrefining what you're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like constant change.
Right.
And we're still doing itobviously, but you're right.
But even like stuff you did 10years ago, you probably you've
learned so much.
You would never do some of thosethings ever again.
No.
Hell no.
But you thought it was a goodback then, right?
(23:47):
Yeah.
Sure.
I mean, and that's the thingtoo.
I feel like there's so muchnoise in people's inboxes and on
social and everything else, evenads that like, you gotta be so
dialed in or you're in lose yourif you don't have the capital
for that, but it's a constantbalance and getting attention to
(24:07):
what you're doing.
So I agree.
So when did like things reallyaccelerate for you guys?
Like what year was that?
I would say about like two yearsago.
Um, you know, we started to, wemade, like, I think there's like
a bunch of good changes thatwere made.
Um, you know, we kind of likereally went back to the drawing
(24:30):
board on some fabrications andwe really started to focus on,
uh, I think one of the goalsthat we had was I want to make
sure that whatever product youbuy from us, um, across the
board, you're going to sit thereand say, this is pretty much
second to none.
I'm not saying that ours isgoing to be, you know,
(24:52):
guaranteed the best.
But I think as a whole, when youstart fabrication wise started
touching our stuff, feeling itacross the board, I want people
to be like, no matter what I getfrom these guys, it's really
good.
And I mean, it's, it's at thetop.
You know, I think that was ourgoal.
When we started to make somechanges, focusing really hard
on, you know, what else is outthere?
What are people doing and reallytesting our stuff against who
(25:15):
we're competing with.
And, um, that really was thestart of, I think the change.
And then we developed the onsthat same year, um, the short to
start and then the next year,the PA.
And I think that reallyaccelerated things too, with
back to like online, I think,you know, you have an item, you
know, in terms of what I wasjust speaking with prior about
like really good fabrics andstuff, that's kind of a harder
(25:35):
sell to somebody like swipingthrough Instagram.
Like until they see it or feelit, then you'll get it.
But to get that first guy to buy, um, those pull ons were huge
because people are sitting theregoing no way, really like that,
that got people's attention.
And I think it's our key item to, I think like our like kind of
(25:56):
icebreaker item to get somebodyinto our product.
And then once that happens,there goes the flood gates with
these shorts.
Feel like what if the gatewaydrug?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, for us what it is, it'slike, oh, right?
Yeah.
I think every brand needs that,you know?
I mean, like if you said a polo,everybody has a pool, right.
(26:16):
So why is it?
Yeah.
Know why are you better than badbirdie?
Or why are you bad or thatwhoever right.
And it's like, that's the dietthat are used.
Some other things are better,but if you have something that's
different, then it's like, hehas, nobody has a technology.
Nobody has an design.
Nobody has.
And they're fricking cool ashell.
(26:36):
But it's like, it's easy to sella polo because of like, oh, that
matches.
Or I called them to buy the pole.
Right.
Or I'm gonna like, oh, they havepolos.
Oh cool.
Because I really like thesepants.
Right?
Like you gotta have a gateway.
I really, yeah.
I mean, I know that sounds kindof silly, but it's true.
Like you have to have that oneproduct or product, maybe one or
two, like you guys did and youhave multiple colors, but I
(26:58):
mean, you got to have thatthing.
So somebody will draw somebodyto the site that says, this is
what really makes you differentthan everybody else.
Because if not everyone rightnow would be comparing you guys
to everybody else is already outthere.
Right.
There's like at least four otherpolo brands that make sport
polos.
But yeah.
It's like, but we're not just apolo company.
Right.
Those other brands are not doingpants.
None of them are just doingpolos.
(27:18):
Right.
I dunno.
That's so I got my pants.
I didn't even know what theywere.
Right.
There's a story.
Like, he's like, I'm going tostick.
Like first time we talked, I'mgoing to say some stuff.
I'm like, okay.
He's like, no, I want you to,before we do anything else, I
wanted to see what you think ofour stuff.
Okay, cool.
Like I can do it on box and donothing.
And I get packaged in them, youknow?
And my wife like put it in thestudio and I was like, oh, I got
(27:39):
a package.
And I go, oh, this is what, thisfrom red manly.
Right.
I'm like, well, what's this allabout?
And then I like, she's like, shewas like, oh, well try them on
so I can wash them.
Right.
So like I put the pants on andI'm like, whoa, these are like,
these are not pants.
These are something different.
Like, I was like blown awaybecause what it is is these are,
(28:00):
these are not the typical pants.
Like how would you describethese pants?
Cause I don't want, I dunno.
I dunno.
Describe it.
It's almost like, someone'slike, you're wearing it's
elastic pants and it's like, itdoesn't even look like elastic.
It's so comfortable and it'slike stretchy and you can move.
It feels like we're on likeworkout pants.
Right.
But it looks like a nice pair ofkhaki pants.
(28:20):
It's crazy.
It blows your mind.
Like for reals, the comfortable,like, I don't know.
I hate wearing, you know, likeit's not as heavy as cotton, you
know?
It's like, I don't know.
It just, I was blown away.
That's a trick.
I literally, well, there's veryfew products where I was like,
oh, game changer.
Like that was one of them.
I appreciate that.
(28:40):
And um, yeah, there, theirpatterns and stuff.
I'm gonna take it right now.
So you guys make the shortelastic short and the elastic
slacks.
Right.
And the jogger as well.
And the jogger that are all thesame material essentially.
(29:00):
Yeah.
Those three items are, we do twodifferent joggers.
We do like one, that's more oflike, you're kind of active,
which is like your typical likeelastic with this front sheet.
And like kind of just for likethe jam or whatever, or just out
of the bottom.
Right?
Yeah.
And then we do the golf jogger,which is the same concept that
you just mentioned with, like,it doesn't look like it's an
elastic waistband.
And so we have that, it's like anice pair of slacks as it looks
(29:23):
like.
Right.
I mean, I just, I love it, dude.
I was like, I like taxing him.
I was like, holy crap, what didyou guys?
I was like, oh great.
I'll pull a company.
You're gonna send me some polos.
And then I was like, oh wait.
He said it was polos Eddie,similar pants.
I'm like, you better send somemore pants bro.
Got a bigger size.
I need a bigger size.
(29:45):
I'm not gonna say what I wasabout.
We're laughing.
So then what's your like goalfor this year?
Like what are you guys focusingon more online sales?
That's kind of like your, forbrand awareness.
Like what, yeah, a little bitof, a little bit of both.
I think, uh, we're, we're juststarting to just try to reach
more.
And I think we're at a pointright now where yeah.
(30:07):
We're trying to push that, um,that lever down even further and
just reach more and more people.
Cause I think we're, we're in areally comfortable spot with, uh
, you know, re, willing to beton ourselves.
Right.
I think we're at a point where,like I mentioned, I think, you
know, our products are second tonone and I think that we will
bet on that when it gets intoyour hands.
(30:30):
And I think that's a greatposition to be in.
So once we're in that and it's,you know, let's be honest, it's
taken, you know, five, six yearsto get to that point where
you're really like our we'vedone the work.
We've done it for five, sixyears and we're still going to
get better.
Don't get me wrong.
Like every year, but not yourinfrastructure.
There have a foundation, youguys are making money.
(30:52):
So, you know, you don't have toworry about it.
And like there going let's,let's keep touching more.
Cause that's what we do thisfor.
Right?
Like when you hear like what youjust said, that's the best part.
Like when you hear guys, youknow, get the stuff and are just
like, these are my favoritepants, these are my favorite
shorts.
These is my, like, that's whatwe do at four, you know, at the
end of the day, like that'sbetter than, you know, any
(31:12):
numbers or whatever you want totalk about.
Like, I mean, that's, that'sawesome.
So they were just focused on,Hey, let's reach more and more
people to give them theopportunity to give us a chance.
And hopefully it's a mutualrelationship where they love
them and you know, we get, youknow, a customer and also just
the feedback that they love, um,which, which means so much to
(31:33):
us.
And so I'd say overall, it'slike, yeah, we're just trying to
kind of just take what we'redoing now and just go further
with it, you know, in terms oftouching more and more people
digitally.
I think where we're at on thewholesale side is, you know, the
wholesale business is it's aharder business to grow and I
think we're okay with like, youknow, maintaining where we're
(31:54):
at.
Like we're not, because I thinkon the wholesale side, um, you
know, you don't want to be, inour opinion, we don't want to be
in every single golf shop.
And the thing is like, when youthink about like a lot of the
places that you mentioned thatare really great, that we sell
to, um, you know, most of theplaces are private or high end
resort just due to our pricing.
And you know, there's a lot ofthose places, but before you
(32:14):
know it, if you really let'sjust say you grow your
wholesale, right?
Yeah.
Like it wasn't many courses likethat.
You can go to eventually everygolf course and then you're not
kind of cool anymore.
And then all of a sudden,somebody else swoops in and
they're like, well, this is new.
So I think we want to continueto be new and a lot of shops and
keep ourselves exclusive.
(32:34):
And if, even if that means liketo S to not, cause we know we
can on the online businessdigitally.
Great.
Right.
That's awesome.
But like the wholesale, you'remaking less margin here.
It's almost like you're, this iskind of like, it's important
butter.
I mean, cause you guys know, butalso sucks, right?
Like yeah, you sell a bunch ofstuff, but just, don't like half
(32:56):
of what you could sell foronline, like for reals.
So it's like, okay, well nowyour margins are tighter because
daddy bought a hundred pairs ofpants, but you've only made half
as much as you would havesomebody put a hundred pounds.
Like you don't make as muchmoney if it's nice to have it.
Right.
Cause it's pay to Jamaica, butyou're only making 50% return on
your investment or less.
Right.
And you're like, well it's justbranding and blah, blah, blah,
(33:19):
blah, blah.
But it's still.
I mean, I think it's the truth.
Right?
Exactly.
That's why a lot of brands don'tdo.
Like you look at these brandsare out there now.
Right.
That don't do wholesale.
Right.
Like they do, but it's verylimited and they don't even know
who was wholesaling for them.
Right.
So it's almost, yeah, becauselike, for example, I was like
(33:40):
talking to a golf course thatwants to buy my towels.
Right.
And they own like five coursesyou're on the ballot.
So it's a pretty bigconglomerate.
And they're like, okay, what'syour, what's your wholesale?
And I was like, I told them andI did the math and I'm like.
I mean, like it's not that likeonce all of a sudden done, it's
like, I've really made anymoney.
I did all the work, you know,like literally do all the work.
(34:02):
I probably lost money.
It was money to pay me.
It's like nothing, you know?
And that's the hard part.
It's like, yeah.
I mean, what do you do though?
It's good money.
They'll get me wrong.
It's just, it could be better, alot better.
I think it's and I think itcomes down to just managing like
what expectations are as, as abrand or a company with, Hey,
you look at the pros, right?
The pros are, we're getting, youknow, maybe it's head pros that
(34:25):
have, you know, some, um, somepush with the brand that are
talking people, teaching people,you know, the whole marketing
aspect.
Right.
So that's a pro and then you'relooking at it and saying, all
right, well it's guaranteedmoney.
We know what we can produce forit.
Right.
And if you get your orders inearly enough, which, you know, a
lot of companies try to do, um,you know, then, you know, okay,
we'll just throw that into theproduction.
Yeah.
We might only be making Xpercentage on it, but it's,
(34:48):
we're ordering more.
So our prices go down.
Right.
And it's a guaranteed sale.
It's not like there's no verylow risk.
Right.
The marketing from men andyou're getting the brand out
there.
So there's that side.
But then like on the other side,like you had mentioned before,
if you do it kind of incorrectlyand you're trying to like, just
put, and it's like, wait asecond.
You don't need to go crazy here.
(35:09):
Because like you said, you mightbe going crazy for not that
much.
And you should be more focusedon utilizing that product
elsewhere.
And you know, for example, too,you want to talk about touch and
reach.
It's like, you know, you canreach a ton of people online and
you know, you're 48 pieces.
That's sitting in XYZ countryclub, although that's good, you
(35:30):
know, there's maybe 250 membersthat are having to be like, you
do the, you do the math.
So, you know, it's, it's justone of those things where I
think they both do help eachother out.
I just think you gotta, yougotta know how to manage both.
And you gotta just sit there andsay, you know, this is what we
need to do on the wholesaleside.
And you know, be okay with, youknow, coming up with a plan on
it and stick into it.
(35:52):
No, I think it's cool.
Like, because your price pointsare, I think are fair, right?
It's a high quality product.
Like, you know, that price rangeis it's not exorbitant by any
means, but it's a higher pricepoint then like what all golf
stuff is, right.
It doesn't matter what brand is.
You can buy a, t-shirt a polo 70bucks minimum anywhere.
(36:12):
Right?
Like a decent one.
And then I'll lip a hundred, youknow?
And I think like pants likepants, price points were fine
because like their pants, right.
Like, and their special pants, Iguess you call it, like, they're
not the normal cotton you buy atthe mall.
Right?
Like, and so you guys say likefit this really unique mold
where it's like performancewear, but it's also like
(36:35):
fashionable, you know what Imean?
Like I can see some of your, Ican see some of the competitors
in a polo space.
Like once they realize what youguys are doing there and be
like, oh, I'm going to do thattoo.
You know?
Like you see it with bad birdie.
Like everybody's coming out.
The same design is bad.
Burton can last two years like amillion copycats.
Right.
And so it's like, I don't know.
(36:56):
It's a lot of copycats outthere.
Yeah.
And I think like we spoke aboutbefore we started, you know, I
think that there's, um, there'sa little bit of, uh, uh, I guess
that's the nicest way to say welike what you're doing if other
people start to kind of, but,but yeah.
But back to your point though,um, yeah.
(37:16):
There's uh, you know, people, Ithink people try to jump onto
certain trends and things likethat, but you gotta be ahead of
the game.
Right.
Because before, yeah, becausethat turns on gonna last so
long, who knows, what's going toend.
I'm not saying it's a batch orwhatever I'm saying, it's going
to last so long.
So if you're like a one hitwonder, you got to be able to
evolve into something, whatever,and you don't want, you want to
(37:36):
be trendy, but you don't want tobe like the trend brand.
That's like, Hey, we made that.
That's cool.
Now.
Uh, I don't know.
I think golf right now is just avery interesting, I guess, at
the golf course yesterday,getting lessons that's right.
I'm gonna kick your when youplay fall.
But I probably won't.
But so, and I also look aroundfor wearing, right?
(37:58):
First of all, I'm going to tellyou guys, I've never seen, I go
by my house.
Every bay was taken still everybay, right for it.
So like my, my instructor and Iended up dry, like for the car,
with the backside of the, youknow, the backside of the
hitting area, the driving range.
And we played that from backthere because that's what always
, we go in like, you know,normal people can't go back
(38:20):
there.
And I was like, holy crap, dude.
You know, like golf, I don'tcare what people say.
Golf is, golf is just strongthis year, as it was last year.
I know it's not the only sportpeople can play.
But I mean, I saw people wearingjeans, playing golf, and I was
like, that person needs to buy ared family of pants, jeans to
the Concourse.
That's gotta be mostuncomfortable feeling.
Right?
(38:40):
Yeah.
No, it's true.
Tough right now.
So tell everybody like what youhave on the way down the state,
you have polos, right?
You have the pants.
We talked about the shorts,which I love there is send me
some more because I'm gonna wearthem all summer.
Uh, seriously.
I love your polos.
I mean, I have everything.
Do they have underwear thatjoggers, they have hoodies like,
(39:03):
Hey, it's have cool clothes.
I dunno.
You're special brand dude.
Seriously.
I just here's different.
I dunno.
I like finding brands like thatwhere it's just something like,
you know, and the only reasonwhy I found you, I didn't know.
I mean, I just saw the name, butI've seen the name before, like
a couple of contests you guysdid with some of the brands that
I work with.
But like, I didn't really knowwho you were.
I just figured it.
(39:24):
Cause there's a million.
I've seen a lot of apparelbrands, not just in golf, but
like other ones that I've workedwith that I was like, you know,
I wasn't that really excitedabout, but I'm excited about
what you guys are doing.
So that's good.
Kudos to you get the POL seal ofapproval means a lot, even
though you're the Dutchman.
Did anybody else call you theDutchman?
(39:45):
No, you, you were there.
I got to give him a call later,actually.
Like that's just kind of coolabout what I do is like, I just
make friends, you know, like Ijust, I think we're all kind of
in the same thing together.
Right?
We're trying to figure out,listen, none of us were trained
to do this, right?
Like, like you weren't aprofessional golfer.
(40:07):
Like I wasn't right.
We're just dudes like wanting todo something fun and a support
we like or sports.
We like.
So I think it really resonateswith the modern golfer.
So I think you guys need tocheck them out, honestly.
Red valley.
What's your, what's your URLagain?
Like with bailey.com.
That's his last name?
By the way, I was like highschool with that name, the last
(40:29):
name I was on your website withmy last name too.
But it'd be way too long.
I had already actually put likea porn site.
Yeah.
So when are we going to hangout?
Oh, wait.
You're New Jersey.
Nevermind.
I'll be, I'll be out there.
So I'll be at there sooner thanlater.
Do you ever come out Eastern orno.
(40:49):
No, but I want to, I think it'dbe fun to like go out there.
Well, now's the time, I mean, orthe fall is the best, I think in
terms of golf and weather andeverything, it'd be cool.
Like come out there and like,like film, you know, like go out
there and play like golf withyou guys.
A couple of other brands I knowthat are in the Eastern
seaboard.
Like just maybe like up Bostonand stuff like that.
(41:12):
And that's kinda like what Iwant to do.
So I will visit you.
Maybe you guys caught thePhoenix open next year.
Yeah, I think so.
Think about that.
A million people that drafts.
Did you see that the NFL draftis like literally places just
jammed?
I mean, it was crazy.
I mean, they said everybody wasvaccinated and the whole nine,
(41:33):
but the fact that that wentdown, I think, you know, I think
things are going to start to,especially why I was like a
super spreader event and they'relike, oh wait everyone.
I know a guy that gotvaccinated.
And then he got COVID.
So I was like, he was.
He was like, I don't believethis.
Like he was he's in the army.
It was like, he texted me like,Hey man, what's going on?
(41:55):
He's like a COVID.
I was like, wait, what?
Yeah, it doesn't make you immunefrom it.
It just makes it not as bad ifyou do get it.
So it's almost like it's not amagic bullet.
I'm not saying not to get it.
I got my shot.
I get my second shot Nick, thisweek actually.
Don't you get, did you get, whatis your second shot?
Because they, the, I talked toyou on the phone Friday, two
(42:23):
weeks ago and she did feel sick,but my, my, one of my partners
at the firm got a second shotand like he came to work.
He was like, I feel like.
And I'm like, oh, why are youhere?
Who's chilled and freezing andstuff.
I'm like, why are you here?
What is it like 24 hours orsomething like that?
Pretty much like no more than48, unless you like have some
weird side effect other than abruised arm.
(42:44):
So, well now as the COVID,that's our COVID part of the
show.
So you guys can check out redvalley, red valley.com.
I'll give you the Dutchman cellnumber.
If you have any questions, justgetting one, one nine one, one
five, five, five, um, seriously,the pants he'll blow your
freaking mind.
(43:05):
Like for reals, like I wanna, Iwant to try and get some more
free pairs.
So that's why I'm the, I've beenas excited about pants ever in
my life.
I wanna make a workout.
How are those pants?
You can do whatever you want.
I'm tired of wearing likebasketball shorts and stuff like
that.
See pants, the pants, the polesreally nice too, but I'd say the
(43:25):
pants and shorts the bomb sowell, cool, man.
I appreciate you call the showtoday.
Uh, be a lookout for more redfamily stuff on our site, on our
channel.
Cause he sent me a care package.
So we'll be doing unboxing verysoon and I will talk to you
soon.
Awesome, Paul, I appreciate thetime, man.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Thanks for listening to another episode of behind the
golf brand podcast.
You're going to beat me likestay connected on and off the
show by visiting golfersauthority.com.
Don't forget to like subscribeand leave a comment.
Golf is always more fun whenyou're, when stay out of the
beach and see you on the green.
Today we play golf.
Let me show you how we do it inthe pros.
Welcome to behind the golf grandpodcast.
I've never missed with the sevennine a conversation with some of
the most interesting innovatorsand entrepreneurs behind the
biggest names in golf.
My plans were the golf clubs.
I lived on the golf course.
I lived on the driving rangefrom pro talk.
You should learn something eachand every single round you play
(00:23):
to fun from on and off thegreen.
Why would you play golf?
You don't play it for money.
Just let me put the ball in thehole.
This is behind the golf brandpodcast.
With Paul libertory behind thegolf brand podcast is sponsored
by OnPoint.
The revolutionarythree-dimensional dome golf ball
marker on point provides alayman recognition as small as a
(00:47):
degree of inaccuracy from theplanned course of the putt face
angle endorsed by Jim Furich usopen champion and 17 time PGA
tour winner on point alignmenttechnology has been proven to
increase putting performance andhelp lower your score.
Visit OnPoint golf dot U S, andbe sure to use code GA 10 for a
10% discount on point, make moreputts.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What's up guys, Paul from golfers authority.
Welcome to the behind the golfbrand podcast.
This week, I have my new friend,Andrew red, Bandley AKA Dutchman
from Rodin league apparel.
I call him the Dutch and I thinkmy only first night calls on
that.
But, um, so here's the story.
(01:30):
My family is freaking coolclothes.
Let me start right that, um,they sent me some clothes and it
blew my mind.
I was like, I don't really eversay that with apparel.
I was like, oh yeah, that'sgreat.
No, for real, it's like, they'remy new favorite short by far.
Paul's really cool too.
That's all they sent me cause itgets hot out, but I can't wait
to learn more about these guys.
(01:52):
Um, we actually kind of run thesame circles.
That's kinda how we met eachother.
There was an email with a bunchof same people and I was like,
Hey, we should talk.
So anyways, without further ado,welcome to the show veteran.
Thanks Paul.
I appreciate the kind words.
So the first time I talked tohim, we were like talking for
like an hour or two.
And then I was like, are youItalian?
And he's like, no, he's like,I'm Dutch.
(02:14):
And I'm like, okay, you're theDutchman now?
So that's like Lily out.
Like, does he know him as a,like them?
If I call him a Dutch guy, it'sa pretty good nickname.
I got to like, it, it soundslike scary, but like, bad-ass
like, you should be like on thatsailing vessel.
(02:36):
Yeah.
We all kind of noticed anypeople.
That's how we met.
It was very, it was love atfirst sight.
We're like, oh, don't know eachother.
Why are we on the same emailchains?
So without what is red valleywithout going into too much
detail?
Yeah.
We, um, were looking modernathletic wear brand that kind of
was built and started guys thatwere now competing in individual
(03:02):
sports.
I think, um, uh, you know, I wasa hockey player all throughout,
you know, throughout college.
And then, you know, once, once,um, once, you know, you start
getting back into the well, notback into when you start your
next life of getting a job andyou know, living on your own,
all those sorts of things aftercollege, I think, you know, I
(03:22):
found myself starting to play alot more golf or tennis, you
know, in friends, you know,going to Equinox and gyms and
hiking and just you're doingsomething athletic, but usually
you're doing it on your own oron your own time because we're,
you know, obviously gettingbusier.
So long story short was wewanted to build this brand for,
um, kind of like your next partof your, you know, life in terms
(03:44):
of, you know, competing inindividual sports.
And, um, that's kind of wherelike the thought came from and
that's kind of the, the kind oforigin this guy's.
Guy's cool.
He's a hustler.
I must be, first of all, I don'teven get hockey.
We're just playing hockey.
Yeah.
Suffolk university in Boston.
What position did you play?
(04:05):
Uh, at that point?
Nice.
So your left lane, it was reallylefty.
Well, yeah, like hockey is, youknow, I'm a writer and
everything else, but like withhockey, we think about when you
hold the stick, right?
Like you shoot right.
You shoot left.
I shoot on the left side of mybody.
But the put your right handactually is holding the top part
of the stick.
So think about if you're holdinglike a hockey stick.
So I was the opposite way.
(04:25):
I was, I was the right way.
Yeah.
It's, it's weird.
Hockey is like the one sportwhere you get like 50, 50 on
people from the left or theright side, because your right
hand is still dominant on the,on the, um, the top of the
stick.
So it just kind of depends on, Icould like dribble or you're
going to call it, you know, Ican't remember the name of it.
(04:46):
The candle stick handle earlyIrish shut up.
So I could do that.
No problem.
But I always, always Iraqi under, I love hockey hockey.
Like when I grew up, there'sonly three ice rinks in Arizona.
So I mean, that was nothing.
And I was one of the few peopleactually played hockey out here.
I played late.
I started playing like juniorhigh and I like fell in love
(05:07):
with the sport.
I was like, where has this been?
My whole life.
You know, you probably were thereason why, uh, Austin Matthews
started to play.
Probably the reason why youasked and he saw you and said, I
got to get going on.
That it's exactly what he said.
And he was like, oh, it's thisfat dude on the ice.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna skate likehim.
Um, so like my friends out of it, if I don't listen to podcasts,
(05:29):
but it's okay.
Um, I friend Stefan was on theshow and um, he's one of the
partners in alignment pro and Ididn't even know that he was an
NHL player.
Like we were talking and he'slike, oh, that was in the
neutral.
And I was like, oh, that's cool.
And then, then his other partwas like, yeah, he was really
good.
And I was like, oh yeah, howgood was he?
And he's like, well, we playedlike 15 years.
(05:50):
He went to stealing cups and Iwas like, oh yeah, I be on that
dudes do it.
And so then Stefan yeller whoplayed for the lanch.
And so he goes away for Bostonand a couple of other teams, he
cracks me up like this and thatwhole podcast, all we'll do is
we're talking back and forth,but I'm like, it's so funny out.
(06:11):
And I still, like, I lovehockey.
Like in the nineties, I wastotally addicted to hockey.
Like after that kind of, youknow, like you said, right, you
go to college phase two of yourlife.
Right.
And so I know all the players inthe nineties and I'm like, oh,
do you know this guy alreadyknow this guy?
He's like, oh yeah.
I'm like, well, who's thehardest player to play it
against.
He's like, Mario Lemieux arey'all ready, auger.
(06:33):
Like,[inaudible] was reallyhard.
I was like, I was like, holycrap.
He's just like the guy that Iwas like, and then he's like,
he's at a golf tournament.
And he's like, oh yeah, it wasthere.
Oh, he's, I'll use like, I'llplay golf with Marty McSorley.
And I'm like, I know that is heplayed for the Kings.
I'm like a total, like, it's a,that's funny, but you can drop
those lanes.
(06:56):
So.
Okay.
So did you, where'd you grow upin New Jersey, right?
Yeah.
I grew up in Northern New Jerseyabout like 15 miles from like
the city.
The city.
Yeah.
Did you play golf, like growingup or just like for fun?
Yeah.
I mean, I probably startedplaying golf, I would say like
maybe when I was like 10 or 11and I, you know, had no idea
really, you know, kinda justlike hockey player type of
(07:17):
thing.
Like I'm going to swing and, youknow, and I still have a little
bit, I'm trying to work on, uh,work on that finally with some,
some guys and they can kind ofcorrect that, but, um, yeah, it
was something that I alwaysenjoyed the game.
I really, really enjoy it thepast, like six or seven play
with your dad.
Not really, you know, my dadplayed once in a while, but it
wasn't, um, it wasn't reallylike his sport, so I don't
(07:42):
really know he was a, you know,football, baseball, basketball,
you know, kind of like yourtraditional, um, your
traditional sports, but I don'tknow.
I think I just somehow wanted tokind of get into it a little bit
and um, I think I just fell inlove with it, you know, it's,
it's just a great gameobviously, and it's, it's
frustrating.
And, um, everyone knows all theins and outs about why they like
(08:04):
golf, but yeah, I think, youknow, in terms of, you know,
probably with the next questionback to like the brand, the
brand, and I felt like we, Ithink golf and tennis and those
forests that we kind of pickedout were, were sports that we
can kind of go a little above,like the, you know, kind of like
your base brand clothing andsay, Hey, we can make this a
(08:26):
little bit better.
We can do this a little bitdifferently.
I think anytime with a businessit's always easier to, to be
better and to, to improve, um,and to be more niche than try to
compete with some of theconglomerates and say, Hey,
we're just going to come up withlike a, a cheaper product or
maybe like something that's alittle bit less, I think, cause
then you're going to kind of,you're going to lose that way.
(08:47):
And I think, you know, the golfindustry, you know, the price
points, you know, you know,everybody's in like a, you know,
any decent brand, you know, fora polo, you're looking like$75.
Right, right.
So it's a sport where I thinkyou can kind of do that.
If you were doing likebasketball clothes, it's really
tough because you know, you'recompeting now with like pants
(09:08):
and stuff and like, well, you'rejust making it, you're just
making a team.
You're making like a, a t-shirtthat could be sold at, you know,
for like$17.
And then when you find out thatthe factory says, Hey, we can do
it for nine.
Whereas where are we making?
Like, and then you're competingwith those huge brands.
So I think it was a good sportto kind of sit there and say,
Hey, I think we can hit a marginthat we needed to.
(09:29):
And I think we can do somethingreally cool.
So what year did you graduatecollege?
Uh, 2009 oh nine.
And then what was your degree inlike marketing marketing, and
then like, did you get a job inthe city?
So right after school, I was, um, applying for a gig, um, out in
(09:53):
Los Angeles at, um, a hugetalent agency called, uh,
creative artists agency, whichthey're known for, um,
primarily, you know, Hollywoodtalent music, and, you know,
they, they like rep Brad Pitt,George Clooney, all those types
of people, but then they boughtout a sport division of, I think
it might've been at the time,um, IgM could potentially, and
(10:18):
they, and they just moved theirwhole sports agency into CAA.
And so the guy that was the headof the hockey department was now
out in Los Angeles.
So throughout college, I was,you know, I, I made sure of
doing as much, like, that's whatI thought I wanted to do.
I thought I want to be as asports agent specifically in
the, you know, the, for the NHLplayers and the law school.
(10:40):
Well, that's what everybody kindof, you know, was, was
mentioning.
And I'm kind of glad I didn't.
Cause you know, now, now I'm notdoing it or I would have been
doing the same thing just fouryears of, of money, dollar done
a lot.
But, um, but yeah, that's what Ihad, but this is when the
recession was kind of goingdown.
So I was waiting for that gigfor like, I got accepted for the
(11:00):
job, but then I had to wait likesix, seven months.
I thought I was going out thereand then it never went through
due to everything that went on.
So I went to law school too.
Cause I was like, I wasn't alawyer.
I'm going to go to law schoolnow it a good time because
there's like literally no jobs.
Yeah.
Like for ELLs.
Yeah.
So then you're going to move outthere and you waited seven
(11:22):
months, like just kind ofwaiting and times like yeah, it
was in like a really weird,yeah.
It was kinda like, you know,caddying and just making some
cash and then just waiting andwaiting.
And then eventually there was aguy, a sports agent near, um,
kind of close to where I grew upand he was, you know, small,
small time, you know, agent, buthad a few good guys.
And I had kind of like internslash like semi part-time work
(11:45):
with him.
And um, I think that's kind ofwhere I started realizing, like
I don't really think I want toput the amount of effort that I,
I would need to and into likejust not just the work, but
actually just like getting intothis business.
And um, and then I worked for atalent agency in New York called
Gersh and they are, um, youknow, again, like a pretty,
(12:07):
fairly big, uh, you know, actorsand musicians and kind of that
sort of a talent.
And I went there and thought,oh, maybe I'd like it on this
side.
But actually I was like, oh mygoodness, this is way harder
than being a sports agent.
Because like, you gotta rememberlike these guys, like if you
like rap, you know, let's justsay you have like, uh, you know,
Brad Pitt, right.
(12:27):
You're reading like 15 scripts aweek and, and it just never
ends.
Right?
Like there's just so much stuffcoming.
Would you never think that whenyou're like, you know, you
wouldn't ever do that would be ajob, right?
You might think, oh, Brad Pittplaces on his couch all day,
look at scripts.
Like, no, he'd be like, right.
Everybody's got an agent readinghim, telling them, Hey, you
(12:47):
should read this one after Ijust read 15 only one's a good
one.
And then like, but like for asports agent, it's kind of like,
once you're in, it's a dream jobis like, oh, it's like a, you
know, you're sitting there andyou're going like, oh, Bryce
Harper, you just signed a 12year contract with the Phillies
for a billion dollars.
So, all right, I'll see you in12 years and we'll work out, you
know, another contract and hemakes like 1% or 3%.
(13:10):
And that's how it works.
They make a present age, I knowup to 10.
So it's like.
Right.
And then you're done onecontract and he's like, I don't
need to really deal with priceor I'll be at rented.
Okay.
He's probably got a team of guysthat work on his marketing
contracts and you know, thingslike that.
But in terms of the negotiationof, you know, the Phillies and
him, that's done he's and it'snot like he's gotta read scripts
(13:31):
or he's gotta like, keepchecking it like these good once
that contract signed.
So there is a lot of like, Ithink, uh, but anyways, long
story short, I realized I didn'treally want, like, I don't want
to do this.
And that's when I kind offigured there's really no jobs
and I want to do what I want todo.
Like, this is kind of like thetime to do something.
(13:53):
So that was kind of the push.
So what year was that?
I think it was around like agrad, probably two years after
graduation.
I realized like, okay, I'm justgoing to start a brand.
I had no idea what I was doing.
I didn't really know exactlywhat the, you know, I just
didn't really know much besidesI'm like, Hey, I don't care.
I'm gonna do something on myown.
I have to, because nobody elseis hiring.
Right.
Like I think it was one of thosespots where I've always kind of
(14:15):
wanted to do something on myown, but this pushed me a lot
earlier on because nobody wasgiving me like an option a, that
would be like, I'll do thisthing later.
Like there was no, there reallyweren't many jobs in the ones
that you can get.
The pay was like pretty muchworse than cap, worse than
caddying.
So you're sitting there going, Ican go up to the club on a
weekend and make more money thanI'd be making in two days on
(14:38):
like a salary job.
So it just kind of the rest ofthe week off to like do
something else.
Exactly, exactly.
So it really did help with likean, I did that for a while.
I was even like in the first fewyears in the brand caddying and
just kind of like using that aslike a, some sort of an income
to kind of continue, I guess youcan call it the dream of like
doing your own thing.
And, um, yeah.
(14:59):
So you have two partners, right?
Um, I, I have one, my, my cousinand then also my brother just,
um, got involved in the businessabout two years ago, so, okay.
So I know it was like you andEric and Dave or so then who
started it with Dave or error?
It was, um, it was kind of likeone of those things where at the
(15:22):
time, um, that I was starting abrand, I was living with Dave
and, um, we always been superclose, uh, more and more like
friends as opposed to cousins.
Yeah.
And, and we, um, you know, hewas working in pharma sales and
I told him about this and, um,and he was a, this is awesome.
I'm all in.
And the other, there was one ofthose situations where it was
(15:43):
like, Hey, I'm going to kind oflike continue to work the day
job until the company is readyfor me to kind of like, um, jump
on board.
And I'm like, okay, cool.
I'm going to just do everythingwe can to get us to that point.
And so I kind of like operatedthe company for a few years,
pretty much on my own.
And, um, and then we started togain more people and they've
(16:04):
jumped ship, you know, jumpedship.
And my brother came on board andwe have, you know, a bunch of
other good people now with usand really started to build it
up.
But those first few years werejust kind of like, you know, uh,
uh, a complete, like learningslash grind slash like, just,
it's almost like if you want itto start a business, you kind of
like my opinion is dive into it.
(16:24):
Right.
Like you're going to fail andyou're going to like fall down.
But if you do it small enough,there's no better experience
than actually just likecatapulting yourself into it and
learning it and kind of beinglike, because now we're sitting
here like seven, eight years inand we're like, we really, you
know, we don't know everything,but I know so much.
(16:44):
I feel like I've been in theindustry for 35 years.
And I think like, that reallyhelped those first three or four
years of just kind of like, youknow, being so small, but also
being able to kind of like, youknow, mistakes we're, we're not
magnified as much.
So then how did you, like, youguys are just a bunch of
hustlers, right?
Yeah.
You can say that for sure.
You know, that's the key, right?
(17:04):
Because it's hard, this, this ishard.
The guy, I didn't realize howhard it was until you start your
own stuff.
Right.
Like making content that's easy.
That's easy.
Well, not really, but, but whenyou actually have a product,
that's hard because it's like,now you have competition on all
these other things that you'dnever really thought you would
have.
Right.
Or like does yeah.
(17:26):
With the eyes on products.
And so many people making thesame thing, it's you have to be
a hustler.
You do.
Right.
And I looked at what's cool.
You guys is like, if you look atis, if you go to Bailey's
website, you'll see like thirdsold mini golf courses.
It's ridiculous.
And they're like, not like somelittle muni that no one's heard
of.
It's like, there are nicecourses and that's not easy to
(17:47):
do to get those clients.
So was green grass, like how youguys initially started out or
were you, or are you online?
Yeah, well, we, we had an onlinestore, but I would say our
business at that point for thefirst few years was almost
entirely, um, Greengrass andwholesale.
I think that, um, you know,we're looking back at it, you
(18:08):
know, I don't think we were in asense big enough to kind of have
like the online presence that wehave now.
And, but like, I think we weregood enough to get into a lot of
shops that wanted to testsomething new that they wanted
to bring a few shirts in view,you know, bring, you know,
something that, that wasdifferent.
So I think we really, um, honedin on that for a while.
(18:29):
And now, um, it's, it's been anice growth of, you know, we've
seen the wholesale businessreally grow in the past couple
of years.
And, um, and then the onlinebusiness now is, you know,
pretty much equal to, and withinthe next year it'll be, you
know, probably double it, whichis kind of where we want to be.
(18:50):
I think we want to have like a,you know, a really good
wholesale business that, that,um, makes money, but also does a
good job of getting your productout there with the right
partners and, you know, um,accounts.
And then also like a reallystrong cause obviously everyone
knows, you know, either youronline businesses where you
really make the money.
Um, but at the same time to thewholesale business, I think
(19:10):
really does assist with that interms of, you know, especially,
especially on the golf side,like golf is great, cause it's
like, it's a golf shop, right.
Like, you know, every dudewalking in there plays golf.
So like whether he's your exact,you know, customer, you know,
you think about like, if peoplealready like narrowed it down to
the buyer, I mean, it's going tobe what age that's about it.
(19:33):
Right.
Like, exactly.
So it is a very fine niche, likestore to like, okay.
And usually they're not thatbig, so you're going in there
and you've got like six or sevenmaybe choices for men's brands.
So it's like, it's like a gusta,right.
Or some like, you know, cheap,you know, like, you know, I'm
(19:53):
talking about like, it's cheapshirts polo with like courses,
you know, embroidered on there,you know, it's like a dollar
polo and now it's like$50.
I was like, you ever reallyaware that that's what you get
for free, you know, like atournament.
So it's like, it's, it's kind ofcool, like that kind of sale.
Right.
(20:14):
Because then people are actuallygetting cool stuff.
For sure.
For sure.
So then how many, like initiallyyou're doing green grass and
then is that what you guys werejust focusing on while slowly
building the online presencethen?
Correct.
I think we were taking likesmall bites out of the apple in
terms of, um, you know, what wewould be doing marketing wise,
how much we would be spending,you know, a lot of things.
(20:37):
Um, along those lines that we'reat a sense at the time, a little
scary for, you know, a brandthat, um, you know, we, we, you
know, to this day, you know, wenever raised any money.
We, we don't have, um, you know,funding from, you know, some
open, you know, checkbook.
And I think, you know, westarted this thing knowing like,
Hey, you know, we can go out ofbusiness.
(20:57):
You know, we can, if we, if thisdoesn't work, you know, we could
be in a position.
Yeah.
You're back just onpharmaceuticals and on back.
So, so we basically a little bittook, you know, said, Hey,
listen, we know on the wholesalebusiness, it's very simple in
terms of like, figuring out whatwe need to order, what sold, how
much money we made.
It was very kind of ABC.
Right.
(21:17):
And I think the online was kindof like, wait a second.
How is this going to work?
And are we going to make money?
Um, and you know, are we readyto really?
Cause I think with the onlinebusiness, um, for anybody, you
know, there's, there's thesefunnels, right?
Like you need to be like onpoint and every area, your
website needs to be phenomenal.
Your product needs to bephenomenal.
(21:37):
Your ads need to be reallystrong.
Your email marketing needs to beawesome.
Your, and then these funnels andhow you kind of just keep it
going to gain more.
People are kind of it's.
So it's so much work.
Like you can't almost start abrand, you know, everyone sorts
of brand like every day and theythrow it up and it's like, you
got the coolest product in theworld, but no one's ever going
(21:58):
to find you.
Yeah.
Or, or you might just not be, Ithink the thing too is like, I
think that, um, you know, it's abuild up, right?
Like, you know, if you're juststarting something and you have
like, you know, seven products,you know?
Yeah.
It might be harder for you togain that person to get products
(22:18):
.
Exactly.
So you might have to godifferent, you might have to
start small and try and get afew accounts to take it.
Right.
Like, and make it a little bitbetter.
See when you're buying stuff.
Right.
It's not once it's like, whenyou actually have stuff in your
garage, you spent cash for, andnow it's like a whole other
stress level.
Right.
Because now it's like, well,that's money.
I spent, it's tied up.
My capital is tied up in theseproducts.
(22:40):
No, it's it's um, it is true.
I think when you have all that,that kind of going through your
head, you know, you're gonnamake sure that you make some
safer decisions.
So I think that's kind of wherewe were.
And um, and then, but we, weknew that online was where we
needed to be and we just kepttrying to work with the right
people and like start to reallyfigure out, Hey, how, when did
(23:04):
we start, you know, putting the,you know, the end of the foot to
the pedal there a little bitmore.
And um, and now I think we'vegotten to a spot where it's
like, again, it's just likeanything else, you do it for a
few years and you really startto learn and you really start to
see what's working.
And then you start gettingdialed in and not saying it.
That is exactly you can't, youcan't just figure it out on a
piece of paper.
Right.
You have to literally do it andsucceed or fail, succeed, or
(23:26):
fail.
And then like, you slowly startrefining what you're doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like constant change.
Right.
And we're still doing itobviously, but you're right.
But even like stuff you did 10years ago, you probably you've
learned so much.
You would never do some of thosethings ever again.
No.
Hell no.
But you thought it was a goodback then, right?
(23:47):
Yeah.
Sure.
I mean, and that's the thingtoo.
I feel like there's so muchnoise in people's inboxes and on
social and everything else, evenads that like, you gotta be so
dialed in or you're in lose yourif you don't have the capital
for that, but it's a constantbalance and getting attention to
(24:07):
what you're doing.
So I agree.
So when did like things reallyaccelerate for you guys?
Like what year was that?
I would say about like two yearsago.
Um, you know, we started to, wemade, like, I think there's like
a bunch of good changes thatwere made.
Um, you know, we kind of likereally went back to the drawing
(24:30):
board on some fabrications andwe really started to focus on,
uh, I think one of the goalsthat we had was I want to make
sure that whatever product youbuy from us, um, across the
board, you're going to sit thereand say, this is pretty much
second to none.
I'm not saying that ours isgoing to be, you know,
(24:52):
guaranteed the best.
But I think as a whole, when youstart fabrication wise started
touching our stuff, feeling itacross the board, I want people
to be like, no matter what I getfrom these guys, it's really
good.
And I mean, it's, it's at thetop.
You know, I think that was ourgoal.
When we started to make somechanges, focusing really hard
on, you know, what else is outthere?
What are people doing and reallytesting our stuff against who
(25:15):
we're competing with.
And, um, that really was thestart of, I think the change.
And then we developed the onsthat same year, um, the short to
start and then the next year,the PA.
And I think that reallyaccelerated things too, with
back to like online, I think,you know, you have an item, you
know, in terms of what I wasjust speaking with prior about
like really good fabrics andstuff, that's kind of a harder
(25:35):
sell to somebody like swipingthrough Instagram.
Like until they see it or feelit, then you'll get it.
But to get that first guy to buy, um, those pull ons were huge
because people are sitting theregoing no way, really like that,
that got people's attention.
And I think it's our key item to, I think like our like kind of
(25:56):
icebreaker item to get somebodyinto our product.
And then once that happens,there goes the flood gates with
these shorts.
Feel like what if the gatewaydrug?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, for us what it is, it'slike, oh, right?
Yeah.
I think every brand needs that,you know?
I mean, like if you said a polo,everybody has a pool, right.
(26:16):
So why is it?
Yeah.
Know why are you better than badbirdie?
Or why are you bad or thatwhoever right.
And it's like, that's the dietthat are used.
Some other things are better,but if you have something that's
different, then it's like, hehas, nobody has a technology.
Nobody has an design.
Nobody has.
And they're fricking cool ashell.
(26:36):
But it's like, it's easy to sella polo because of like, oh, that
matches.
Or I called them to buy the pole.
Right.
Or I'm gonna like, oh, they havepolos.
Oh cool.
Because I really like thesepants.
Right?
Like you gotta have a gateway.
I really, yeah.
I mean, I know that sounds kindof silly, but it's true.
Like you have to have that oneproduct or product, maybe one or
two, like you guys did and youhave multiple colors, but I
(26:58):
mean, you got to have thatthing.
So somebody will draw somebodyto the site that says, this is
what really makes you differentthan everybody else.
Because if not everyone rightnow would be comparing you guys
to everybody else is already outthere.
Right.
There's like at least four otherpolo brands that make sport
polos.
But yeah.
It's like, but we're not just apolo company.
Right.
Those other brands are not doingpants.
None of them are just doingpolos.
(27:18):
Right.
I dunno.
That's so I got my pants.
I didn't even know what theywere.
Right.
There's a story.
Like, he's like, I'm going tostick.
Like first time we talked, I'mgoing to say some stuff.
I'm like, okay.
He's like, no, I want you to,before we do anything else, I
wanted to see what you think ofour stuff.
Okay, cool.
Like I can do it on box and donothing.
And I get packaged in them, youknow?
And my wife like put it in thestudio and I was like, oh, I got
(27:39):
a package.
And I go, oh, this is what, thisfrom red manly.
Right.
I'm like, well, what's this allabout?
And then I like, she's like, shewas like, oh, well try them on
so I can wash them.
Right.
So like I put the pants on andI'm like, whoa, these are like,
these are not pants.
These are something different.
Like, I was like blown awaybecause what it is is these are,
(28:00):
these are not the typical pants.
Like how would you describethese pants?
Cause I don't want, I dunno.
I dunno.
Describe it.
It's almost like, someone'slike, you're wearing it's
elastic pants and it's like, itdoesn't even look like elastic.
It's so comfortable and it'slike stretchy and you can move.
It feels like we're on likeworkout pants.
Right.
But it looks like a nice pair ofkhaki pants.
(28:20):
It's crazy.
It blows your mind.
Like for reals, the comfortable,like, I don't know.
I hate wearing, you know, likeit's not as heavy as cotton, you
know?
It's like, I don't know.
It just, I was blown away.
That's a trick.
I literally, well, there's veryfew products where I was like,
oh, game changer.
Like that was one of them.
I appreciate that.
(28:40):
And um, yeah, there, theirpatterns and stuff.
I'm gonna take it right now.
So you guys make the shortelastic short and the elastic
slacks.
Right.
And the jogger as well.
And the jogger that are all thesame material essentially.
(29:00):
Yeah.
Those three items are, we do twodifferent joggers.
We do like one, that's more oflike, you're kind of active,
which is like your typical likeelastic with this front sheet.
And like kind of just for likethe jam or whatever, or just out
of the bottom.
Right?
Yeah.
And then we do the golf jogger,which is the same concept that
you just mentioned with, like,it doesn't look like it's an
elastic waistband.
And so we have that, it's like anice pair of slacks as it looks
(29:23):
like.
Right.
I mean, I just, I love it, dude.
I was like, I like taxing him.
I was like, holy crap, what didyou guys?
I was like, oh great.
I'll pull a company.
You're gonna send me some polos.
And then I was like, oh wait.
He said it was polos Eddie,similar pants.
I'm like, you better send somemore pants bro.
Got a bigger size.
I need a bigger size.
(29:45):
I'm not gonna say what I wasabout.
We're laughing.
So then what's your like goalfor this year?
Like what are you guys focusingon more online sales?
That's kind of like your, forbrand awareness.
Like what, yeah, a little bitof, a little bit of both.
I think, uh, we're, we're juststarting to just try to reach
more.
And I think we're at a pointright now where yeah.
(30:07):
We're trying to push that, um,that lever down even further and
just reach more and more people.
Cause I think we're, we're in areally comfortable spot with, uh
, you know, re, willing to beton ourselves.
Right.
I think we're at a point where,like I mentioned, I think, you
know, our products are second tonone and I think that we will
bet on that when it gets intoyour hands.
(30:30):
And I think that's a greatposition to be in.
So once we're in that and it's,you know, let's be honest, it's
taken, you know, five, six yearsto get to that point where
you're really like our we'vedone the work.
We've done it for five, sixyears and we're still going to
get better.
Don't get me wrong.
Like every year, but not yourinfrastructure.
There have a foundation, youguys are making money.
(30:52):
So, you know, you don't have toworry about it.
And like there going let's,let's keep touching more.
Cause that's what we do thisfor.
Right?
Like when you hear like what youjust said, that's the best part.
Like when you hear guys, youknow, get the stuff and are just
like, these are my favoritepants, these are my favorite
shorts.
These is my, like, that's whatwe do at four, you know, at the
end of the day, like that'sbetter than, you know, any
(31:12):
numbers or whatever you want totalk about.
Like, I mean, that's, that'sawesome.
So they were just focused on,Hey, let's reach more and more
people to give them theopportunity to give us a chance.
And hopefully it's a mutualrelationship where they love
them and you know, we get, youknow, a customer and also just
the feedback that they love, um,which, which means so much to
(31:33):
us.
And so I'd say overall, it'slike, yeah, we're just trying to
kind of just take what we'redoing now and just go further
with it, you know, in terms oftouching more and more people
digitally.
I think where we're at on thewholesale side is, you know, the
wholesale business is it's aharder business to grow and I
think we're okay with like, youknow, maintaining where we're
(31:54):
at.
Like we're not, because I thinkon the wholesale side, um, you
know, you don't want to be, inour opinion, we don't want to be
in every single golf shop.
And the thing is like, when youthink about like a lot of the
places that you mentioned thatare really great, that we sell
to, um, you know, most of theplaces are private or high end
resort just due to our pricing.
And you know, there's a lot ofthose places, but before you
(32:14):
know it, if you really let'sjust say you grow your
wholesale, right?
Yeah.
Like it wasn't many courses likethat.
You can go to eventually everygolf course and then you're not
kind of cool anymore.
And then all of a sudden,somebody else swoops in and
they're like, well, this is new.
So I think we want to continueto be new and a lot of shops and
keep ourselves exclusive.
(32:34):
And if, even if that means liketo S to not, cause we know we
can on the online businessdigitally.
Great.
Right.
That's awesome.
But like the wholesale, you'remaking less margin here.
It's almost like you're, this iskind of like, it's important
butter.
I mean, cause you guys know, butalso sucks, right?
Like yeah, you sell a bunch ofstuff, but just, don't like half
(32:56):
of what you could sell foronline, like for reals.
So it's like, okay, well nowyour margins are tighter because
daddy bought a hundred pairs ofpants, but you've only made half
as much as you would havesomebody put a hundred pounds.
Like you don't make as muchmoney if it's nice to have it.
Right.
Cause it's pay to Jamaica, butyou're only making 50% return on
your investment or less.
Right.
And you're like, well it's justbranding and blah, blah, blah,
(33:19):
blah, blah.
But it's still.
I mean, I think it's the truth.
Right?
Exactly.
That's why a lot of brands don'tdo.
Like you look at these brandsare out there now.
Right.
That don't do wholesale.
Right.
Like they do, but it's verylimited and they don't even know
who was wholesaling for them.
Right.
So it's almost, yeah, becauselike, for example, I was like
(33:40):
talking to a golf course thatwants to buy my towels.
Right.
And they own like five coursesyou're on the ballot.
So it's a pretty bigconglomerate.
And they're like, okay, what'syour, what's your wholesale?
And I was like, I told them andI did the math and I'm like.
I mean, like it's not that likeonce all of a sudden done, it's
like, I've really made anymoney.
I did all the work, you know,like literally do all the work.
(34:02):
I probably lost money.
It was money to pay me.
It's like nothing, you know?
And that's the hard part.
It's like, yeah.
I mean, what do you do though?
It's good money.
They'll get me wrong.
It's just, it could be better, alot better.
I think it's and I think itcomes down to just managing like
what expectations are as, as abrand or a company with, Hey,
you look at the pros, right?
The pros are, we're getting, youknow, maybe it's head pros that
(34:25):
have, you know, some, um, somepush with the brand that are
talking people, teaching people,you know, the whole marketing
aspect.
Right.
So that's a pro and then you'relooking at it and saying, all
right, well it's guaranteedmoney.
We know what we can produce forit.
Right.
And if you get your orders inearly enough, which, you know, a
lot of companies try to do, um,you know, then, you know, okay,
we'll just throw that into theproduction.
Yeah.
We might only be making Xpercentage on it, but it's,
(34:48):
we're ordering more.
So our prices go down.
Right.
And it's a guaranteed sale.
It's not like there's no verylow risk.
Right.
The marketing from men andyou're getting the brand out
there.
So there's that side.
But then like on the other side,like you had mentioned before,
if you do it kind of incorrectlyand you're trying to like, just
put, and it's like, wait asecond.
You don't need to go crazy here.
(35:09):
Because like you said, you mightbe going crazy for not that
much.
And you should be more focusedon utilizing that product
elsewhere.
And you know, for example, too,you want to talk about touch and
reach.
It's like, you know, you canreach a ton of people online and
you know, you're 48 pieces.
That's sitting in XYZ countryclub, although that's good, you
(35:30):
know, there's maybe 250 membersthat are having to be like, you
do the, you do the math.
So, you know, it's, it's justone of those things where I
think they both do help eachother out.
I just think you gotta, yougotta know how to manage both.
And you gotta just sit there andsay, you know, this is what we
need to do on the wholesaleside.
And you know, be okay with, youknow, coming up with a plan on
it and stick into it.
(35:52):
No, I think it's cool.
Like, because your price pointsare, I think are fair, right?
It's a high quality product.
Like, you know, that price rangeis it's not exorbitant by any
means, but it's a higher pricepoint then like what all golf
stuff is, right.
It doesn't matter what brand is.
You can buy a, t-shirt a polo 70bucks minimum anywhere.
(36:12):
Right?
Like a decent one.
And then I'll lip a hundred, youknow?
And I think like pants likepants, price points were fine
because like their pants, right.
Like, and their special pants, Iguess you call it, like, they're
not the normal cotton you buy atthe mall.
Right?
Like, and so you guys say likefit this really unique mold
where it's like performancewear, but it's also like
(36:35):
fashionable, you know what Imean?
Like I can see some of your, Ican see some of the competitors
in a polo space.
Like once they realize what youguys are doing there and be
like, oh, I'm going to do thattoo.
You know?
Like you see it with bad birdie.
Like everybody's coming out.
The same design is bad.
Burton can last two years like amillion copycats.
Right.
And so it's like, I don't know.
(36:56):
It's a lot of copycats outthere.
Yeah.
And I think like we spoke aboutbefore we started, you know, I
think that there's, um, there'sa little bit of, uh, uh, I guess
that's the nicest way to say welike what you're doing if other
people start to kind of, but,but yeah.
But back to your point though,um, yeah.
(37:16):
There's uh, you know, people, Ithink people try to jump onto
certain trends and things likethat, but you gotta be ahead of
the game.
Right.
Because before, yeah, becausethat turns on gonna last so
long, who knows, what's going toend.
I'm not saying it's a batch orwhatever I'm saying, it's going
to last so long.
So if you're like a one hitwonder, you got to be able to
evolve into something, whatever,and you don't want, you want to
(37:36):
be trendy, but you don't want tobe like the trend brand.
That's like, Hey, we made that.
That's cool.
Now.
Uh, I don't know.
I think golf right now is just avery interesting, I guess, at
the golf course yesterday,getting lessons that's right.
I'm gonna kick your when youplay fall.
But I probably won't.
But so, and I also look aroundfor wearing, right?
(37:58):
First of all, I'm going to tellyou guys, I've never seen, I go
by my house.
Every bay was taken still everybay, right for it.
So like my, my instructor and Iended up dry, like for the car,
with the backside of the, youknow, the backside of the
hitting area, the driving range.
And we played that from backthere because that's what always
, we go in like, you know,normal people can't go back
(38:20):
there.
And I was like, holy crap, dude.
You know, like golf, I don'tcare what people say.
Golf is, golf is just strongthis year, as it was last year.
I know it's not the only sportpeople can play.
But I mean, I saw people wearingjeans, playing golf, and I was
like, that person needs to buy ared family of pants, jeans to
the Concourse.
That's gotta be mostuncomfortable feeling.
Right?
(38:40):
Yeah.
No, it's true.
Tough right now.
So tell everybody like what youhave on the way down the state,
you have polos, right?
You have the pants.
We talked about the shorts,which I love there is send me
some more because I'm gonna wearthem all summer.
Uh, seriously.
I love your polos.
I mean, I have everything.
Do they have underwear thatjoggers, they have hoodies like,
(39:03):
Hey, it's have cool clothes.
I dunno.
You're special brand dude.
Seriously.
I just here's different.
I dunno.
I like finding brands like thatwhere it's just something like,
you know, and the only reasonwhy I found you, I didn't know.
I mean, I just saw the name, butI've seen the name before, like
a couple of contests you guysdid with some of the brands that
I work with.
But like, I didn't really knowwho you were.
I just figured it.
(39:24):
Cause there's a million.
I've seen a lot of apparelbrands, not just in golf, but
like other ones that I've workedwith that I was like, you know,
I wasn't that really excitedabout, but I'm excited about
what you guys are doing.
So that's good.
Kudos to you get the POL seal ofapproval means a lot, even
though you're the Dutchman.
Did anybody else call you theDutchman?
(39:45):
No, you, you were there.
I got to give him a call later,actually.
Like that's just kind of coolabout what I do is like, I just
make friends, you know, like Ijust, I think we're all kind of
in the same thing together.
Right?
We're trying to figure out,listen, none of us were trained
to do this, right?
Like, like you weren't aprofessional golfer.
(40:07):
Like I wasn't right.
We're just dudes like wanting todo something fun and a support
we like or sports.
We like.
So I think it really resonateswith the modern golfer.
So I think you guys need tocheck them out, honestly.
Red valley.
What's your, what's your URLagain?
Like with bailey.com.
That's his last name?
By the way, I was like highschool with that name, the last
(40:29):
name I was on your website withmy last name too.
But it'd be way too long.
I had already actually put likea porn site.
Yeah.
So when are we going to hangout?
Oh, wait.
You're New Jersey.
Nevermind.
I'll be, I'll be out there.
So I'll be at there sooner thanlater.
Do you ever come out Eastern orno.
(40:49):
No, but I want to, I think it'dbe fun to like go out there.
Well, now's the time, I mean, orthe fall is the best, I think in
terms of golf and weather andeverything, it'd be cool.
Like come out there and like,like film, you know, like go out
there and play like golf withyou guys.
A couple of other brands I knowthat are in the Eastern
seaboard.
Like just maybe like up Bostonand stuff like that.
(41:12):
And that's kinda like what Iwant to do.
So I will visit you.
Maybe you guys caught thePhoenix open next year.
Yeah, I think so.
Think about that.
A million people that drafts.
Did you see that the NFL draftis like literally places just
jammed?
I mean, it was crazy.
I mean, they said everybody wasvaccinated and the whole nine,
(41:33):
but the fact that that wentdown, I think, you know, I think
things are going to start to,especially why I was like a
super spreader event and they'relike, oh wait everyone.
I know a guy that gotvaccinated.
And then he got COVID.
So I was like, he was.
He was like, I don't believethis.
Like he was he's in the army.
It was like, he texted me like,Hey man, what's going on?
(41:55):
He's like a COVID.
I was like, wait, what?
Yeah, it doesn't make you immunefrom it.
It just makes it not as bad ifyou do get it.
So it's almost like it's not amagic bullet.
I'm not saying not to get it.
I got my shot.
I get my second shot Nick, thisweek actually.
Don't you get, did you get, whatis your second shot?
Because they, the, I talked toyou on the phone Friday, two
(42:23):
weeks ago and she did feel sick,but my, my, one of my partners
at the firm got a second shotand like he came to work.
He was like, I feel like.
And I'm like, oh, why are youhere?
Who's chilled and freezing andstuff.
I'm like, why are you here?
What is it like 24 hours orsomething like that?
Pretty much like no more than48, unless you like have some
weird side effect other than abruised arm.
(42:44):
So, well now as the COVID,that's our COVID part of the
show.
So you guys can check out redvalley, red valley.com.
I'll give you the Dutchman cellnumber.
If you have any questions, justgetting one, one nine one, one
five, five, five, um, seriously,the pants he'll blow your
freaking mind.
(43:05):
Like for reals, like I wanna, Iwant to try and get some more
free pairs.
So that's why I'm the, I've beenas excited about pants ever in
my life.
I wanna make a workout.
How are those pants?
You can do whatever you want.
I'm tired of wearing likebasketball shorts and stuff like
that.
See pants, the pants, the polesreally nice too, but I'd say the
(43:25):
pants and shorts the bomb sowell, cool, man.
I appreciate you call the showtoday.
Uh, be a lookout for more redfamily stuff on our site, on our
channel.
Cause he sent me a care package.
So we'll be doing unboxing verysoon and I will talk to you
soon.
Awesome, Paul, I appreciate thetime, man.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Thanks for listening to another episode of behind the
golf brand podcast.
You're going to beat me likestay connected on and off the
show by visiting golfersauthority.com.
Don't forget to like subscribeand leave a comment.
Golf is always more fun whenyou're, when stay out of the
beach and see you on the green.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.