Behind Every Business: The Untold Stories of Entrepreneurship

Episode Transcript
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Ty Cobb Backer (00:00):
We are live.
Welcome back everybody toepisode 279.
I'm your host, tyco Backer.
Thank you for joining us onthis Wednesday edition of Behind
the Tool Belt.
We will be right back after ourintros from our sponsors, tc

(00:20):
Backer.
Tc Backer.
Loop inside and windows gutterssolar.
For sure, loop inside andwindows gutters solar.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
TC Backer.
Tc Backer, welcome to Behindthe Tool Belt, where the stories
are bold, the conversations arereal and the insights come to
you live, raw and uncut.
Every week, host Ty Cobb-Backersits down to bring you the
stories, the struggles, thelessons learned and the wins.

(00:55):
No filters, no scripts, justthe truth.
Please welcome your host ofBehind the Tool Belt, ty
Cobb-Backer.

And we are back.
Welcome back everybody tobehind the tool belt.
Today marks a kind of amilestone.
I guess it's episode two.
279, it's kind of a squarenumber, it's not a nice round
number.
Yeah, like 280.
Actually.
Next week we'll be on the road,vick and myself we'll be on the

(01:24):
road, vick and myself will be onthe road.
We'll be traveling togreenville, to our other
location.
We're going to knock out acouple, a couple things that uh,
we need to address.
Um, but next week's show willbe a solo show.
It'll be, uh, us on the road,which should be pretty wild, and
then a week after that, davidbruno will be in the studio with
us and I, I like I think youknow my, some of my favorite,

(01:47):
you know episodes are definitelywith with you.
Erico and David Bruno, like youguys are like the original OGs
of of behind a tool belt and, uh, or some of the most memorable,
you know, or Christmas episodesand stuff like that, where you
showed up down at the shop,pretty shot in the ass and I

(02:09):
have no idea how the hell youmade it home, but you did
because you're still with ustoday and didn't get locked up
for anything.
No, I'm just kidding.
I think my son drove Probably,but I think you also showed up
as Santa Claus.
Yeah, yeah, so that was apretty remarkable and
rememberable episode.
So you know, it's always.

Chris Markey (02:24):
I thought we were talking about leadership.

Yeah, we will, okay, but I, I, I want to, you
know, poke fun a little bit hereof you.
But yeah, this is, you know,the podcast where you know we
talk about leadership, personaldevelopment, all those good
things, things that arehappening within our industry.
And you know, for the most part, we have people that are on the

(02:48):
show that are, you know,entrepreneurs.
I don't want to just sayindustry specific, but in in
terms of how you, you know, haveaffected our business right.
So you do touch a lot of peoplewithin our industry.
You know, and a lot of peoplemight not know, that Now, that
was what one cool thing aboutour golf tournament that we
hosted Okay, there was man, Idon't remember how many people

(03:10):
there was.
There was 144 people there.
Okay, cause we maxed out thegolf course.
I don't even think they had to,like, lease golf carts from a
local, another local golf courseto to bring in to accommodate
how many people were there.
So I'm just going to spit out,because most golf tournament
scrambles are 144 people.
So there was 144 people there,half of which didn't even know

(03:35):
each other but somehow wereconnected, right Like there,
that ripple effect of whether itwas cashflow or influence or or
somehow there was some someconnection, whether it was my
insurance company, you know, oror, like Eric Brewer was there,
okay, um, we do a lot of workfor him and have for a very long

(03:57):
time.
Okay, so imagine that rippleeffect, like if we really unpack
that for a minute and how manylives that impacts and touch,
and they don't even know, like,where that cashflow might come
from, or our insurance agent,right, like how that impacts him
, because you know what I mean.
But anyhow, my point was is theimpact that you have on us,

(04:20):
right, and that that allows usto impact our local communities,
because you're always the oneof the first people I reach out
to, maybe not always I was goingto say sometimes the last
person I reach out to, becauseit's always the last minute, but
in theory, I was just going tosay.

You know, usually it's a Tuesday and you need a
Wednesday.

Yeah, exactly.

Does that count?

it's a Tuesday and you need a Wednesday.
Yeah, exactly, does that count?
So maybe you are the firstperson usually that I'm
contacting whenever we're we'redoing any kind of event.
You know all of our events atany of our locations.
You know and, and even withbehind the tool belt, you've
shipped overnighted towels to usand at RoofCon.

You said a key word there and let's let's just
take that into account likewe're real big right now into
this and you are, uh, your golftournament community, your world
, yeah, people outside thatworld, the, the ripple effect,
um, I think you and I talkedabout it a couple days ago, but
the ripple effect, the rippleeffect, how it is in everything

(05:25):
that you do, uh, so if, um, dhldoesn't pay a bill to certain
people, yeah, early enough, theycan't pay their people.
That can't pay their people, itgoes down the line.
If, uh, I go to an event and myinsurance person's there and

(05:46):
all of a sudden, they knowsomebody, they're an insurance
person for somebody else thatmight lead to me, that leads to
somebody else, that goes downthe road.
Like, everything is a ripple.

Oh yeah.

Like regardless of negative or positive?
Negative, negative or positive.
I'm just saying in general theripple effect in your business,
negative or positive.
I'm just saying in general theripple effect in your business.
Never did I think about theripple effect as I was building
the business.

Yeah.

No, within my business, outside of my business
, I mean, you think about, like,how you act, or you know how
you want to handle a situation,but you, you think about it more
, the more mature your businessis or the more mature we are,
hypothetically.
Yeah.
I'll use the quotation marks,yeah, but the that ripple effect

(06:36):
word, it's a.
It's an interesting phrase tostart our you know what I mean
Like how, how, how it affectsyour golf tournament affected a
lot of people.

It did.
Yeah, we raised in it alltogether between the Baltimore
because there was two.
There was, like a week or twolater, stephen Spence, whose
idea was to host these thingsRight.
So big shout out to StephenSpence.
And we're also participating inSwing for Recovery this year
too.
But I think there's going to bea few more, you know, across

(07:07):
the country one in Colorado, onein Baltimore, one here, there
might even be one in New Jersey.
But again, that ripple effect,yes, yeah.

And that's a that's a good ripple effect.
You have bad.
Like you said, good and bad,but it the ripple effect is in
everything yeah, it really is.
To every action there's areaction, I guess well, true,
yeah, that's probably the pointyou know what I mean you're
gonna.
You're right, you know you, I Ialways love how you walk through
a shop and you're talking tosomebody and you say one thing

(07:40):
and how, when it comes back outthe other side, that ripple goes
down and that wave's really bigand it turned into a.
It turned into like a tidalwave of something that started
with.
No, that's not how I said it,this is what I said.
You know what I mean.
So that's the bad side of yeah.

The grapevine effect is what I've heard, that
yeah, the phrase before yeahthey pass it along.

But that's the ripple right.
People turns into, it turnsinto a yeah, yeah, no doubt I
went off on a tangent.

No, no, no.
I mean, it's definitely a greattopic that we could, you know,
and I think that's what we'retrying to do.
We're trying to have impact.

Right.

You know what I mean and this is the crazy thing
about impact is that I don'tthink we know, and I don't think
you knew until, maybe, that Ijust mentioned the, the, the
power of that impact, and howmany lives you've actually been
able to touch.
Yes, throughout the country, asvick and I have traveled to, I
mean everywhere but the westcoast.
I mean we were, you know, uh,colorado, utah, uh, texas,
dozens of time.
Florida, dozens of timesFlorida, dozens of times.
Greenville, south Carolina,hilton Head, south Carolina,

(08:48):
like just all over the country,your merchandise, your swag,
your product has been touched byway more people than you can
even imagine.
And we get there's one of yourtowels that you made us.
Where was Woody, not GrandCayman?
We get there's your one of yourtowels that you made us.
Where was woody, not grandcayman?

(09:09):
He went there on one of theseship cruises where you stay on
it for like a week.
It's not a real big, huge one,it's pretty, pretty nice size
ship where they dive like fivetimes a day.
So he's on like a scuba divingship where they're it well all
week long.
He's sending us photos of thetowels that you made us one that
he's hiding in the head takinga shit with the towel held up,

(09:29):
like just all kinds of crazieslike hey guys, love you.
You know just we use them foranything yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
not just as their purpose rightum but in the shitter, yeah,
you know, and I guess it's goingdown the drain, vic, yeah.
You know, and that's kind oflike legacy.
It's like people have come towork here that that, for one

(09:53):
reason or another, don't workhere anymore.
Okay, but we do know thatthey're.
They're different.
If they come through andthey're here for any amount of
time, okay, they leave as adifferent human being, and I
would like to think in a betterway.
That they leave here, okay, andlet's just say they came
through and they were here forseveral years and they go and

(10:16):
start their own business.
Okay, we'll never get thecredit for that, even though we
know that when they came hereeight, nine, ten years ago, that
they had no idea what roofingwas or how to even install roof.
Let's just just put it that way.

And but they watched you do it ty, yeah,
right they know, right, butwe'll never.

That's like the catch 22 about legacy we'll
never know, but this is whatI've.
I've come to accept and and anduh, appreciate is that I don't.
They don't need to say, if itwasn't for tc backer, right,
that I wouldn't be who I amtoday I am.
That is the part of legacy,that there's more of that than

(11:00):
there is people saying, oh,praise, right, praise tc backer,
because they feed 5,000children every summer.
More of the impact happensunknown and I guess if you're,
if you're traveling this journey, you have to not just accept
that but not get hemmed up inthe hubbub of like, hey, look at

(11:22):
me, we've impacted so manydifferent people.
It's just, you know, it takes acertain breed of person to want
to suit up and show up and wantto take care of it.
Because leadership I am so sickand tired of that word Leader
leadership it really what it is.
It's servantship, absolutely, iswhat it is, because that's what
it's all about, because thereare days, weeks and months that

(11:45):
go by where I just want to puncheverybody in the face, and a
few others and a few others,okay, but I get through it, I
bounce back.
You know perseverance,resiliency, all that stuff, and
not get hemmed up in.
People aren't peopling right upand people aren't peopling

(12:06):
right.
You know, and you know theyhave no idea because I can get
hemmed up in that they have noidea what myself and my family
have gone through to producepayroll, to sign Christmas
bonuses to I mean the list justgoes on and on and on, and on,
and on, and on and on.
Again, I'm not running outthere smacking people upside the
face like do you have any ideathat I've had to put eight

(12:27):
mortgages on my?
I've never done that, so Iwon't even use that.
Yeah, never refied or anythingoutside of my rental property.
But my point is there's a lotof things that us entrepreneurs
have to go through, the shitthat we go through, and it's
kind of like you know we reallydon't have to do this.

Yeah.


I don't know why I , as being the person that can
get in their car, go to work,yeah, do work Kind of a flexible
schedule, yeah, and go home,right.
I envy that in a lot of waysbecause we were for lack of a
better term anchor.
It's not an anchor, but there'ssomething that's tied to you to

(13:11):
the whole time.
You're obligated to that andthat's that's what you know to
to.
What's that saying about?
To, uh, the person much isgiven, much is asked, right.
So you know, if you're going toput yourself in a position
where you're going to, um, uh,work your tail off and be given
something, there's going to be alot also asked of you.
It's not like you know if it wasright, if, if, if it was easy,

(13:34):
everybody would do it.

Yeah, right, right.

You know, if it was, if it was easy, you would
be able to do it tomorrow.
Walk out the door and do ittomorrow.
Yeah, and you know you don'tthere.
I like you, there are, there,are the have people out there
that you know have gone on to doother things, or don't you know
?
I don't that, we'll never admit, but that's okay.

Yeah, you know, all we can hope for and that's
where I was kind of going, thatis all we can hope for us is
that they go out and have thesame amount of impact on other
people's lives as we've had ontheirs.

I'm going to use a phrase I use all the time Don't
make an impression, make animpact.
So you know, in our industry,impressions that's the number of
prints we do, or whatever.
But I and I started saying thatphrase a long time ago.
Let's not make an impression,let's make an impact.
Okay, and what is the impact?
The impact is when you go outand you say I work at to the T,

(14:30):
oh yeah, I know that, yeah, theydo our swag, they do.
You don't want to be on theother side of that, right, so
you, you, just, you just be anupstanding company as best you
can.
There's going to be wins andbadids, and if you win more than
you lose, then it's a goodthing.
But you try to make the impactin the community and you can't
impact every organization, butat least you can impact as many

(14:52):
as you possibly can to get yourhands on.

And unfortunately, we're not going
to make and keep everybody happyeither, and that's something
else that we have to accept.

If everybody was happy.

that's utopia something else that we have to
accept.
But if everybody was happy,that's utopia, right.
But also learn from that.
You know what?
What did we do wrong here?
You know, if, if it's, if it'snot a good fit, that's, that's
one thing.
But if you lose a client, or ifyou lose a team member or a
coworker, okay, those for meover the years, right away I
want to take it personally,because I am a firm believer

(15:26):
that, you know, people don'tquit jobs, they quit people.
So I kind of get hemmed up inthat a little bit when somebody
does end up leaving.
But I also got to look at thewhole thing where it's kind of
like they had a betteropportunity.
It wasn't necessarily, you know, something that we did wrong,
right.
But when somebody does leave oryou end up losing a client,

(15:48):
that right there is.
There's a big, huge lesson tobe learned there.
Like, why is this happening forus right now?
Right, okay.
Or if you have a client that isvery difficult to work with and
over the years we've hadseveral of them where, like, if
we can meet that standard, weshould be able to meet
everybody's standard, and thathas now become the standard and
that's what I've said to my teamwhere it's like I know they're
very difficult.

(16:08):
We we had this project severalyears ago up in Mechanicsburg
and this guy was relentlessly onmy ass about safety, about
cleanliness, and I mean over thesmallest, my new pieces of
little fragmented aluminumsnippets on the ground.
I mean it took him longer tosnap a picture and send it to me
than it would have been for himto just pick it up and throw it

(16:30):
away.
What I discovered was on my waythere to to to whoop up on him.
I'd left my family in DelawareI was on vacation left them
there and drove the Hoyt andMechanicsburg to put the smack
down on this dude.
I had been so emotionallyhungover because I kicked his

(16:51):
ass five ways to Tuesday up here.
I knew exactly what I was goingto say.
I knew exactly how theconversation was going to do.
I knew exactly what hisrebuttal was going to be and
what I was going to follow upwith.
I mean I just metaphorically,like mentally, beat the crap out
of this dude Three and a halfhours, probably four, up to
Mechanicsburg, left my familydown there, drove up there, got

(17:16):
there.
He'd have probably just beenable to push me over because I
was so emotionally hung over anddistraught, like worn out, like
beat the crap out of myself.
But what I've realized on myway there and I got out of the
truck and he was so excited tosee me hey, todd, because he's a
keyboard warrior, right what Irealized was is this guy is just

(17:41):
so good at his job he's reallygood at his job and I didn't
like it.
I didn't like the fact that hewas pointing out my character
defects, my flaws, our flaws notnecessarily my personal
character defects, but our flaws, our character defects as a
company.
And that's where I discoveredand this is going back a good 10

(18:01):
, 12 years ago- I remember theday.
Do you yeah?

You talked to me on the drive up.

Probably did.

And I got the whole story about what you were
going to do to this guy.

Yeah, I already knew where the body was going.

But I just distinctly remember that day.
I remember I remember ustalking.
It was like a day or two laterI was like how did that go?
And you're like it didn't goany way, that I said it was
going to go.

I took away time from my family.
That's how that went Right,really, at the end of the day.

That was it.

Yeah.

Yeah, but is that guy going to be a big advocate
for you?
He is.

We still work with this guy and that has
become the standard.
Do we always meet that standard?
No, we don't.
But we now know what thestandard is.
If we can keep this guy happy,we are going to shine like a
diamond, like there's nobodythat we're not going to be able
to accommodate.

If we hold this standard, now you do have notes
in the system, hey, by the way,you know this guy's particular.
Yeah, hey, don't do this when Ipassed him off to to vick.

I warned vick.
When vick passed him off tobaker.

Vick had to warn baker yeah you know, like hey
this kind of like we've goteverybody about yeah, you
probably that's why I?
Don't deal with anybody elseother than you no, it's because
they would come to me to ask ifwe could get this done.
So you just come right to me.

Yeah.

Right, I'm waiting for the day you say hey, I
needed my shirt yesterday, chris, I haven't had that one yet.

Okay, that's coming, that's coming, that's
coming.
Love my shirt.

I needed them yesterday.
Tuesday, chris, you're late.

Yeah, you're holding back Today's Wednesday
what's up?
You came here empty handed.

Oh, by the way, I did forget your.
Your order was up in my officeand I forgot.
I'm going to get yelled at.
Kelsey's going to yell that.

So oh, speaking of Kelsey, um Tabby reached out
to me, she wants to.

Yeah, man, yeah she.
You know we think that's theone good thing about our shop.
Everybody in the shopunderstands the value of
relationships.
Yeah, you will be more patientsometimes because we understand,
because they're patient with us.
So you know, that's very.

Well, that's what's so special about our
relationship, you know what Imean.
I think one time I had a momenton you and I'm not even saying
we had a moment, it was on me,okay when I and it wasn't even
you.
It wasn't even you that I wasfrustrated with, it was
everything else.

Yeah, but you talk about that, but friends do that
Right.
So I mean that if you can't dothat as friends, let's be honest
with each other.

Yeah.

If we can, as servant leadership or whatever,
if we can, as leaders, have amoment on some employees, then
we're all not in this togetherCause there's going to be a day
and employee has it on me.
Because there's going to be aday, an employee has it on me
and I can tell you Kelsey's hadseveral.
No doubt my son, mason has hadseveral, but it's going to

(21:11):
happen Like I don't, there is no, you don't like.
That's just to get like my wifeand I argue right, that's my
best friend.
Yeah, right, I mean like peopleare going to have that.
You know, yeah, I don't thinkthat's.
I don't think that's unhealthy.
As a matter of fact, I think itis healthy.
And you know, one of the thingswe started saying in our shop
was you know, when some, whenthere's something wrong with it,

(21:33):
hey, can I get that back fromyou?
And people would get upset.
Until I said we use it as atraining mechanism to find out
where we went wrong, then theywant to be a part of it.
Then they're like, oh sure, Iwas like, hey, this, I'm gonna
send you a shipping thing.
They will just send it back tome.
We want to find out in oursystem where this went wrong and
where we could be better at it.
All of a sudden, then they wantto be a part of it.
Everybody's a bitcher.

(21:55):
Until they want to be, untilthey're part of the solution,
yeah.
And all of a sudden they goaway.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?
Yep, Right, and it's okay toask a customer.
Where do you think this wouldbe easier on a customer for
future reference?
Where do you think this wouldhelp us out for customers in the
future and be better for them,Right?
So I think you know.

I think there's a lot of things that we take for
granted sometimes that we, evenas customers, you know, yeah,
isn't that for sure?

Like even as customers, like we're on that
other side every day, but yet Iwalk into Subway.
Damn it, if you put that greenpepper on there, I'm going to
kill you.

Yeah, Come on bro.
Yeah, calm down you know whatI'm saying.
Yeah, no, there is healthycontroversy.
I mean, there, there really ishealthy controversy.
We had a situation not thatlong ago and I'm not going to
mention anybody's name, but I Iknew that they were at odds and

(22:53):
I used to jump right in and tryto fix everything, like, no, you
guys are going to get alongright now.
If not, then I'm going to bemad, like I'm out mad.
The situation and I let it go.
I was like no, they need towork it out.
Actually, there was twosituations where, you know it,
just, I knew that they needed towork this out, because one,

(23:14):
because we, we do hold a highstandard, okay, and really, at
the end of the day, all they'redoing is is holding each other
accountable, like and I watchedthe entire conversation unfold,
you know what I mean it was like, well, they're just holding
each other accountable.
So that's where healthycontroversy is just leveling
people up.
Like you know, there's a,there's a, there's a right way

(23:36):
and wrong way to do it too, andthere's kind of like the
in-between way where you know,hopefully you don't go too
overboard and mother F, somebodyor whatever, and that happens
too Right.
But sometimes we need to saystupid stuff too, to knock
ourselves back a peg and realize, like where I've done wrong and
that has turned into betterrelationships, where now I'm

(24:00):
coming to you more vulnerable.

Right.

And like hey man .

I love when you're vulnerable.
So sorry, well, I know, well,nevermind, but uh, well, listen,
you know it happens in ouroffice too, so but uh, well,
listen, you know it happens inour office too, so so listen.
Kelsey's driven.

Yeah.

Everybody wants a Kelsey or has a Kelsey and you
know sales reps do things wrongat times and sometimes, some
days, it's okay, you can tellwho she's mad at, but based on
based on the fact that whatshe's not going to put up with
that day, right, oh, on the factthat what she's not going to
put up with that day, right, oh,you're in the doghouse.
You know, it's kind of therunning joke, like who she met,

(24:40):
but that's her job, right, she'sheld accountable by me, right,
which she doesn't like.
You know what I mean?
Because she can't bark back.
She can bark, yeah, but youcan't, you know, yeah, but
that's, that's the thing I thinkyou know.
You, you want that.
You want that accountability,of course you want.
You want that, you want thataccountability, of course you
want them to work it outthemselves, which is where I am
in this stage.

(25:00):
Yeah, you know, like I lefttoday and I was like all right,
you're going to load the van up,you're taking all these things
out.
I turned around, walked out.
Usually I would have loaded thevan back in the day, loaded the
van.
This is where you're going whenyou see this person say hi,
blah, blah, blah.
Now I'm getting to a pointwhere, hey, when you learned the
last time you were out, oh, Ilearned this, that and
everything.
I'm starting to make them.
Hey, write in a book and writenotes in there and put that on

(25:22):
because you know you startdelivering stuff.
They can just go in the book andbe like, oh suzy usually gets
it, she's at the counter, yeah,that kind of stuff.
So they started doing thatthemselves yeah, no, that's good
well, you, they don't wantrobots.
No, you don't want robots.
No, you don't Right.

Yeah, no, because we're in the customer
service space.
We got to accommodate and youwant them to, even though you're
not there and your back'sturned, you want to make sure
that your clients are receivingthe same service and value right
as if you were there.
That's really what it comesdown to at the end of the day,
and sometimes they're evenbetter right at it.

(25:58):
Yes you know, because justbecause we're other places and
when we show up there we may notbe as like here's your boxes,
you might have a good debt.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
But as as our co-workers aremaking deliveries, like they,
they that's what they're thereto do.
They don't have 15 other places.
They have to be in their mindpsychologically.
You know what I mean and that'swhat I found.

(26:20):
Like my team, a lot of my teamis a lot better, especially
today at at things that I usedto do all the time, like load
the truck.
I should, I'd be the onedriving the truck after loading
the truck and and making all myrounds and deliveries and all
that stuff.
Um, you know what I mean.
But there I come to find outthey're they're better at it

(26:42):
because one I might not have thebandwidth, like I should be
working on the company, not inthe company necessarily so much,
because you know, you know andthis is where the impact starts
Like we've built such a niceimpression right the impact.
Yeah, the impact, right, likehere, I'm impacting you.
I gave you a job, right, you,you, you know what I mean To to
go out and impact more people'slives and you know, speaking of

(27:03):
which, you know the way and whenwe I think we talked about this
earlier on the phone todaywhere you know, like early on,
when, when we used to be the oneloading the truck, driving the
truck and delivering everything,and we, we, we had a small team
and you know the way that I ledthen compared to the way that I

(27:23):
lead now.
Totally different.
Right, it is totally different.
You know, and I was talking toyou about, like you know, it's
one thing to have all of theright people in place, you know,
and I've gotten complacentmyself where it's kind of like
they should know their job butnot realizing that people still
need lead.

(27:43):
But it needs to be differentnow because it's a different
breed of people that are herecompared to 16 years ago, the
way, different breed of peoplewho work for us today.

I'm going to, I'm going to stop you right there,
cause I had that happen justtoday.
So all along I've been oursales reps, like I've kind of
taken that's my gig.
I like to sell, so I've kind oftaken the sales.
Uh, being a sales leader likehaving sales meetings and
talking about ways to do thingsand be better at it and you know

(28:17):
your CRM and staying on top ofthings and the follow-up and the
follow-through.
And I had talked to my leadsales rep about a certain thing
that we were doing, that Iwanted to do, and I started
implementing and you know youknow, them.
They, they don't want toimplement it.
Or it seems like it's different, but you implement it.
And then you I said, once weget to a certain point, you'll

(28:39):
be able to see the value in this.
So today I showed him the valuein this and the next thing, you
know, all of a sudden he's allin.
You know what I mean, which wasgreat.
That's a leadership thing.
And I just thought about that.
Now, that was a leadership.
I didn't do it.
I was just like, hey, let meshow you this.
And then it's kind of likeshowing your kid how to put a
chain on his bike.

(29:00):
Yeah, right, all of a sudden,then they could do it.
That's a leadership thing, andyou just didn't know it.
Right, putting, helping yourkid put his chain on his bike,
or hey, this is how you push alawnmower correctly, or this is
what you want to look for whenyou're mowing or trimming.
Same thing happened today.
Sometimes you have to go outand show it.
Yeah, and show it once, andthen they'll come back with the
well, what about this?
Or hey, I did it this way anddid it, and then they'll come

(29:22):
back with all these other thingsthat make that process or
procedure better.

Yeah.

And that's what's happened.
That's what happened.
That's where.

I most recently have noticed in one of my
shortcomings is that I'm guiltyof not fully explaining the goal
or the mission.
So I've been using thiscemetery that's across the

(29:50):
parking lot here as an example,like I am so guilty of.
I need you to go over to thecemetery, okay, yeah, and I'll
leave the room, okay.
So they're kind of just like,all right, just do.
Doing on the way over there,like you know, when I should
have said there's an oak treeover in that cemetery and every

(30:13):
time the wind blows it'sscraping across these headstones
, okay, and it's damaging them.
If I would have gave just thatmuch more description, they'd
have been like oh okay, grab thechainsaw and ran over there.
But why they were over there?
They noticed there was twoother oak trees that were doing
the same thing.

(30:34):
And then they would havediscovered hey, maybe we should
break these leaves up.
Hey, now the grass needs mowed.
Hey, now the headstones needpower.
We hope it would go like this,but with a little more
description, which would buy usmaybe a little more time until
we can circle back and walk overthem and be like, hey, why
don't you now mow the grass?
You know what I mean mean trimthis up or hey those leads,

(30:56):
leave me right yeah, because ifthey don't have enough
initiative, that that's onething.
But us giving a betterdescription of like why I need
you to go over there.
This is our goal.
Our goal is to clean this placeup, fix, get, stop damaging the
headstones.
Right, and I'm looking out thewindow and I'm watching this oak
tree.

Yeah, but the next question is the one that you
want.
So if I tell Vic to go get that, do what you said hey, go over
there and clean up that oak tree, okay.
If he says, hey, is thereanything else?
That needs cleaned up overthere.
That dude right there I'm going.

(31:36):
Oh, this guy's a little forwardthinking Like that sticks with
me Like oh, okay, yep, yep, goodpoint, good point.
How about you go over there?
I'll be over in five minutes,I'll give you a little roundup
and you can finish up.
You good with that?
Yeah, I'm good with that.
Okay, cool, I'll be right over.
You know what I'm saying.
The next question is the oneyes, right, and I was.
Where did I get that from?
There was a book I was readingand it was talking about the

(31:57):
questions back from an employeeand how what they mean to you.
So, or how you take them.
Like the catcher catching theball yeah, he's going to catch a
knuckleball, different than hecatches a fastball or a
curveball.
Makes sense, right, yes, andhow you receive that.

(32:35):
I'm asking you this, okay,great.
So the receiving of that.
It's good that they're askingoh, I think you're great.
That's great that, like in mymind, I'm going to sell this.
You know, you start to thinklike know whether they're asking
the right questions or, by thetime you do show up, they

(32:59):
already started to rake theleaves after they took the limbs
down right, but what if you?
What is right?

away.
I'm thinking they shouldalready know they need to clean
the limbs and the leaves up, butsome people weren't that
forward thinking they will butsome people yeah, but some will.

They'll start to get to know what your
expectations are exactly whenyou do that right like what's
the standard here?

like we're not just going to come over here,
like ty wouldn't accept the factof us just cutting these limbs
off and then leaving for the dayokay, I'll use this analogy hey
, vick, go wash my truck.

So he takes your truck thinking ahead.
Hey, I'm going to be ahead ofthis game.
These stickers on here, thesedecals yeah, that's not good.
This is a brand new truck, whywe have these and he starts
taking them off.
Is that good?

no, you would want them to say yes, hey, what
about these stickers?

yeah, yeah, and you're gonna be like yeah, are
they asking the right question?
Correct?
Yeah, it's the right question.
Or he comes back with no decalson and you're like look, I just
paid eighty thousand dollarsfor that truck, including the
decals, right?

yes, I appreciate your being
forthcoming about this, but yeah, I really wanted to take in the
thank you for taking theinitiative, like I understand
where your mind was, but thatwas pretty dumb but still it's
what they're asking.

Yeah, right, and, and I agree with you, I think
there are some things that arepretty self, or at least to me
they're self-explanatory, butare they?

so see, that's my point, right?
I would think that would bevery self-explanatory by me just
stating go over to the cemetery, right, right.
Only because that's I'm more ofa forward-thinking person, I'm
going to go over, I'm going tocheck it out, I'm going to you.
Obviously he wants me here.
There must be something wrong,right, like what's going on.

(34:40):
But not everybody's built likeus, and that's my point is that
I got to give a little moredescription of what it is that
I'm actually looking for.
Nobody can read my mind.
Nobody's a mind reader.
Well, your wife thinks she canshe is actually a good she is
but I'm supposed to read hermind.
Oh yeah, that's.

(35:00):
Yeah, it's tough.
Yeah, that's tough, I've gottenbetter it's like Braille yeah.
Did I say that out loud, vic?
Everybody heard me?
No, but I mean, as we mature,like, like you stated earlier,
as we grow up, as the businessmatures and and as we.
But this my point too, was youknow how I led, then isn't gonna

(35:24):
like, yeah, may have got ushere, but where we want to go,
you know what I mean, that Ihave to change.
I have, I have to redevelopmyself as a leader in today's
day and age, whether it's thetechnology, it's the things I'm
studying, the things I'mlistening to, the events that
I'm attending, you know, inorder to get where we want to go

(35:47):
, whether I want to sell,whether we want to do X, y, z,
amount, dollar, whatever thatcase might be, because we might
have all the right people in allthe right people and all the
right seats, but if they're notbeing led correctly or giving
enough description of what it isthey should be doing, we'll
never reach that goal.
And then what happens too?
This is the other thing too ifthey're not being led well
enough, people get a little toocomfortable and they get

(36:10):
complacent.
Right, and okay is just okay.
Right when we're, you know, theenemy of good is great, like we
want to continuously be great,but you know what I'm riding on
my laurels and I'm sitting backin my chair and and with my feet
propped up, you know, andpeople, people might say well,
as long as you have the rightleadership in place, that's

(36:32):
still not.
I've been doing this longenough.
It doesn't matter who I put inplace.
The message will not be thesame, unless it's coming from me
.
The energy, the ceo right andyou know what's complacent.

So so you talk about that's a great word, by
the way complacent becauseyou're like, okay, listen man,
I'm my business is doing thisand it keeps going up a couple.
You know a couple percentagesevery know a couple of
percentages every year.
So good, whatever, but they getcomplacent.
And then when they getcomplacent, okay, and you go to
ask them to do more because allof a sudden you had an epiphany

(37:07):
yeah, right, right, they're notused to that.
Oh well, it's all good.
Yeah, yeah, well, I was wrong.

Yeah.

Well then, I don't like this job anymore, because
you know what?
I mean Like you start goingdown this.
Yeah, you start really goingoff.

Oh yeah.

Whereas you look my well, my father-in-law who
passed away.
God love him, don.
But he used to say it's okayfor people to walk on eggshells.
It's okay, like we do, all thetime you drive in your car.
You're speeding, but you'reconstantly looking for the cops.

Yeah.

You know what I mean the kids, your kids.
They want to know where theline is.
When's the line that goes fromdad yelling at me to dad just
snatching me up, right, right.
But employees want to know,they and they need to know.
It's a you know there's whenit's time to and when it's not.
Yes, and we're walking oneggshells because there might be

(38:02):
a change tomorrow.
Yes, and that is good, becauseyou know, my wife works for a
$700 billion company.
For them to turn it's liketaking this freight liner and do
this and when they have newthings going on, there's 4,377
people that have to do the samething to turn this freight liner

(38:24):
, when we should be able to doit like this because we're a
smaller company and it shouldn'taffect anybody.
It should be.
What's my role and what do youexpect from us by turning this?
Yeah, 45 degrees, right, right,but a lot of times we go, oh,
you're changing my world.

Yeah, like I just you know, and I think on
your point is is in my earlierdays of leadership, it would
have just been we're doing itRight, that's it.
I don't just shut up, just doit.
This is what we're doing.
And I'm not saying I stilldon't have that attitude at
times, because sometimes I don'thave the time right, it just
needs to happen.
Okay.
But I think the way that Iapproach things too, is like we
try not to roll things out tothe entire company at one time,

(39:13):
right.
And then recently, most recently, I started to write clarity
notes from Ty.
There was some, some changeshappening upstairs, and so I
wrote, instead of me justtelling you right and then
leaving okay, I thought, well,there'd be more impact if I
actually wrote something out andshowed you what I want you,

(39:34):
your new, your new role, somenew task that I want you to pick
up, and the impact that it'sgoing to have on the, on the
company, and why this is soimportant.
That's a great idea.
So I started going throughwriting notes for Ty and and
this is the thing too likethere's a couple of people who
have been here for for a littlewhile that I also think their
roles might not be changing, butneed a clarity.

(39:57):
Note, whether it'scomfortability, whether it's, I
just see gaps, like, hey, I feellike you should be.
You know this.
This is your job, just so youknow.
Instead of getting their jobdescription from them, it's my
job to tell them, and remindthem sometimes, what their job
is and the importance of thatrole.

Like it's okay to do that.

You're the bridge between sales and
production.

But it's okay to do that too.
Yeah, that's where they get.
That's where the it gets lost,in the sense of it's like.
I can't believe you're sayingthat to me.
What part of it didn't youunderstand, like?
What part I don't get it, likewe're just changing some things.
It happens everywhere you go.

And they're not always going to get it right
away, but after three monthsit's just now their job.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?
Like it just wears off whereit's like this is just the
normal every day.
I've come in here for a weeknow and it's just it's habit now
.

We are creatures of habit, yeah, and they fact
that they come in, they sit downin a chair, make their coffee
the same way and do all of that.
God forbid my dad was the worst.
God forbid that one car got inhis way on his 30-minute drive
to work.
His day was ruined, and we dohave employees like that.
You got to take that intoaccount.
But I think your point, likethat message, like going in and

(41:10):
changing it, that's an awesomeidea, meaning like you're going
to say here's some things thatare going to change, okay.
The other thing, too, is justtalking about the change at the
beginning.
Yeah, okay, reading a bookabout talking about where you go
into a meeting and you have anagenda, but you don't tell them
the agenda up front.
What you do is you bring uphere's a couple of things that I
was thinking of and there'sonly one on the board that
really matters to you.

(41:31):
At that point you let them talkabout all the other stuff and
then you know you get to thiscertain one and you see how, how
could that be implemented?
They don't know it's going tobe implemented, but if we did it
how we do it, you let them getdown the line and that's the one
you really want.
And then, when you do that, sayokay, that's, I really liked

(41:52):
that one we're going toimplement that one and now.

It's never a good idea until we think it's a
good idea as individuals, anyindividual.

Right, and you know, it's always the majority
in the room too, right?
So if there's four people inthat room and three of them go,
wow, that's pretty good.
The other one's like listen,man, I'm kind of caught off on
it.
But you know, let's walk downthis road and see where it goes.
Maybe you know that's what youwant.
Yes, right.

And sometimes it's very hard to get.
You know, and a lot of thesethings should be a team effort.
You know if they feel like thatthey're involved in the
decision-making.
You know it goes no differentthan me when I work for somebody
else or or household change.
You know mom and dad.
You know if they're like hey,how.
You know, like, like my opinionreally matters, my influence, I

(42:44):
have influence here.
It gives you that, that not yes, sense, sense of belonging, but
it gives you that empowerment,right, you feel empowered to.
I'm helping.

Yeah, well, I can, I can tell you, let's talk
about that.
So there's some and I'm goingto use something that happened
with my daughter about thisempowerment.
I thought it was really goodSuperintendent of the school
district asked a bunch of kidsto go into this meeting and talk
about.
You know, they were ninth, 10thand, I believe, 11th graders.
Like hey, what do you see?
Which I thought was awesome.

(43:17):
Like, bring them in, tell uswhat you see or some things on
your mind.
What would you change?
What would help us?
I thought that was great.
You talk to a parent.
Their agenda is different thanthis kid's agenda, but if you
get the right ones in the room,they're going to tell you the
right answers, right, so youknow.
And she said I think mydaughter said to the
superintendent need to turf thefield and she knew it was a

(43:40):
challenging.
She told me later and she knewit was a challenging question
because turfing the fields noteverybody likes that.
The grandparents get upsetbecause you're spending so much
money on it.
It just goes down.
But she knew it was going to bea tough question.
But she also knew it was goingto be a tough question because

(44:03):
of what she was going to ask himnext.
The next question, and I thoughtthis was all good, because and
he said, listen, it's, it's, youknow, whatever it's a million
dollars, whatever the number wasa million dollars, and right
now there's things that are moreimportant than that.
And her next question was okay,so it's more important than me
getting home at 10 o'clock atnight and then having to study
because we have to practiceseven to nine.
And he went on to the nextquestion and I thought it was

(44:25):
brilliant.
So, like in this meeting withyour employees, you bring up
these things and they make thesechallenges.
The next question is going tobe the hard one.
You, as a leader, have to beprepared for it, and I don't
think he was prepared that thesekids are smarter than you know.
We have to be prepared asleaders to know that, oh, I
better like I better have mystuff together.
Yeah, you know the proverbial.

(44:47):
Well, let me get back to you,but let me think about that.
Get back Sometimes in today'sworld.
Yeah, I don't believe you,because they know we're swarming
, that We've done it for 18years, so they know that we've
thought about this.
Yeah, there's a reason we'reasking these questions Right,
asking these questions RightExactly, you know so.
When he, when she, walked intothat room, I don't think he felt
that he was going to get toughquestions it was maybe a Kumbaya

(45:09):
and everybody was having a goodtime, right but she hit him
with it, you know.
Good for him or her, yeah.

But I'm saying, is we?

have as leaders.
It showed me that we I have tobe ready, you know, whatever it
is.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like the first time I gothealth insurance in the company
and I'm standing there and theinsurance reps in and they're
doing all their talking and theyask a question and the
insurance rep went like this andI was like oh, let me get back

(45:40):
to you, yeah.

But, and sometimes there is.
I don't know the answer to thatquestion or not, but I will get
back to you.
Yeah, but, and sometimes thereis I don't know the answer to
that question or not, but I willget back to you, but we
shouldn't we should.

If we're going to ask them to be prepared, or
we're going to ask them, weshould be a little bit better
prepared.
There are going to be somequestions.
Yeah, an insurance question.
Do you think I'm really goingto know it?
I won't.
No, yeah, no, I won't.
The only thing I know is I geta call every year.
Hey, it went up.
Yeah.

Isn't that the truth?

Yeah, yeah, we just went at ourselves.
Yeah, did you fix his camera?
Vic.
He fixed his camera, you fixedmy camera.
You did.
He didn't get any prettier.

Did I.

I should have.
He didn't get any prettier.

I should have.
What um.
Where are we at on time here?

Almost 48 minutes 48 minutes Almost 48 minutes.

We got another 48 minutes in us, don't we?
I know we do.
We probably got at leastanother two hours.
But before we get off here realquick, is there something that
you want to leave us with?
Leave our viewers with.

Yeah, you know, um , there's.
There's a lot I talk about.
I talk about um I've beentalking about it a lot lately uh
, coaching youth, I coach sports, I'm a varsity lacrosse coach
and uh, through this wholeboobid type thing we had gone

(47:02):
through, um, I found that Iwouldn't maybe was disappointed
in the kids, but it probablyended up figuring out that I was
more disappointed in theparents allowing, just not being
parents, you know, whether adivorce situation or what.
But I think there's hope and II find that you know people are

(47:27):
stronger than you realize andkids are stronger than you
realize.

More resilient.

Yes, then we give, ever give them, you know, and I
think we need to be that witheach other, because I think part
of everything that people aretrying to or I don't know what's
trying to go on, and they, theytry to get us to hate one
another, and then it just getsexhausting.

(47:51):
And so I have hope, I have hope.
I have hope for our future.
I have hope for a lot of things, and I think we need to put our
hand out and shake hands andtell people we love them a lot
more.
I think it matters, because youdon't know where that person's
been in that day.
And I started doing something awhile ago and I think you and I
talked about it before andprobably three to four times a
week I'll send out text Now youand I text a lot, so it's

(48:13):
different, but I'll send textout to people that I haven't
talked to in a while and I callit being intentional.
Hey, hope all is well.
That's all I put.
Hope all is well.
That's all I put.
Hope, all is well.
And sometimes you get adissertation back.
Thanks for reaching out.
I was thinking of you, man.
It's been tough, chris.
And then sometimes you'll getit's been great.
Thanks for reaching out andthinking of me, but I think we

(48:34):
need to do more of that.
I agree, we need to do more ofthat, not only with.
I walk around the shop.
I'm sure you do too.
You walk around the buildingevery day.
I walk around my shop every day.
An employee just had a baby.
You know, every baby born inour building is baby chris, by
the way, and it's gender neutral.
Just wanted everybody to knowthat.
But uh, they didn't name themthat, but I.

(48:57):
The raise their raise wasdetermined based on if they were
named with their baby chrishow'd that go?

I'm not very well, so there's no chris's, no
new chris so, if I'm hearingwhat you're saying, you mean to
to be more empathetic because wedon't know what?

people are going through, um, or I, you know, I
think, cognizant make we all.
We all want, we want toregurgitate our opinions,
because we opined for so longduring COVID that I think
sometimes, right now, you don'twant to regurgitate those.
I think you want to stop,listen and ask yourself what are

(49:42):
they asking of me right now?
And it's one of the things Iwork on every day, and I know my
wife's probably going to laughat me when she watches this
thing.
Right, but I truly do drivearound, think about you know,
how can I?
Or how can I handle thatsituation better, or how can I
be better as part of theleadership?

For sure, I mean we have to right and that's a
part of that that that personaldevelopment journey.
There's no destination to thisRight.
You know what I mean it's it'sit's like I was trying to say
earlier.
It's like, yeah, I could justshow up every day and just stick
my feet up on a desk Right andand you know, and wonder why
things got a little mad and wewere in the locker room.

And the woe is me.
Stuff gets on my nerves.
Ty and I finally broke down andsaid to him I don't share a lot
.
I just met my biological fatherwhen I was 30.
I haven't talked to my mom whenI was 18.
And I get all this.
Oh, my parents are divorced.
Well, mine were divorced fourtimes.
Like, I don't, like that justdoesn't bode well with me.

(50:52):
And I and I I you know I hithim with it.
I was like you guys want to poopoo on me and you can't come to
practice because your toenailshanging off.
And I said but if I don't putyou in the game when you're not
here because you didn't come topractice, that's a problem,
because your parents are sittingin or one of your parents are
sitting in the stand.
I was like, listen, you guysgot to get away from this poo
poo pooing about each other andyou just got to start showing up

(51:13):
and start making it happen.
And that's like and I shouldn'thave said probably opened up
that much, but I will tell youthey opened up more to me
because they felt the same way,like, uh, you know what?
Oh, coach, has been through it.
Yeah, you know.
So, I digress.

You know a little bit and I so what, what,
what to okay, so wrap that, wrapthat up for me.

Well, I just think that we need to love one
another a little bit more and Ithink we need to reach out and
understand people's situations,and I think we I'm going to be
honest with you stay away fromthe TV, stay off, you know, get
out of that shit.
Shake somebody's hand Like lookthem in the eye, know what
their world's like.


And you know I try to.
You know it's this, this, thisis not all about money.
You know it's not.
This is all about we need tolove one another and we need to
do it in a better way, includingmyself, no doubt.

So yeah, yeah, no, I like that, I, I, I, I
agree, I agree that you know weneed to be a little more
empathetic, um, but the on onthe other side of the coin, too,
is that we're not here to bedoormats either.
No, you know, and if you're notwilling to meet me halfway, at
least meet me halfway.

(52:29):
You know, mike and I just had aconversation my guy down in the
Carolinas, you know, yesterday,about, you know, meeting, you
know, boohoo and about torntoenails or whatever the
question might be or whateverthe issue might be.
There there was, you know, theall this soft, you know, and I
guess that's what drives mecrazy.
Sometimes too, it's like youknow every, not everyone, but

(52:50):
there's, you know, looking forsomething for nothing.
And you know, and andnavigating through that bullshit
, like where, like, are theyjust looking for something for
nothing or are they willing toput into work?
And then, right, they missedpractice.
And then it's game day, friday,right, and they don't
understand why they're sittingon the bench.

(53:11):
You know what I mean, but younever put the work in.
Everybody else was here.
Even the worst player on theteam is here trying meeting me
halfway.
So, like I'm pouring into this,kid, you won't allow me to pour
into you, but yet, kid, youwon't allow me to pour into you,
but yet you want to get theglory, you know, on on game day.
You know what I mean and it'sand I think people don't
understand.

(53:31):
You know you.
You gotta be consistent Likeone.
I can't trust you.
I didn't know if I could putyou on the lineup or not because
you weren't here Sunday orThursday's practice.
So you show up Friday because,yeah, it's game day, but I
didn't no call, no show.
Like what, what?
What was I supposed to do?

But that goes for work.

You're making a sports analogy, right now, but
the same goes for your office.
Exactly what I'm saying.

Right, oh, why did he get that lead?
Well, you weren't here and, bythe way, they were asking about
this which you weren't in ourmeeting about that, and we
weren't in our meeting aboutthat, and we weren't able to
bring up the date.
We just want that direction.
Yes, right, totally, oh, butit's uh that you're taking money
out of our my mouth, or foodout of my kids mouth.

come on man, yeah, come on, then you should
have worried about that when youtook off two days this week
already yeah, you know, oh, nodoubt I don't feel good yeah,
yeah, no, what a great, what agreat conversation always that,
like I said earlier, this is why, um you, you were definitely
one of my favorite guests comingon the show, because always our
conversation should be recorded, every conversation we have,

(54:33):
you know, on the phone.
You know the conversation we hadearlier today when we were on
the call like that all of thatstuff should be recorded and
edited, most of it.
But there are some, there aresome golden gems in there that,
uh, you know, and and I, I, Ienjoy you.
I appreciate you more thanyou'll probably ever know, chris
.

Oh, one of these times I want to have a show tie,
cause I keep a list of quotesand like favorite quotes or
favorite things out of a book orwhatever.
I want us to come on here andjust start going down the list,
reading some of the good ones,yeah, like, like, and I'm sure
you probably write them down oryou have a book of them.
It would be really cool to justto go down and start start

(55:13):
reading those and be like, youknow, like uh and what it means
to you.

not necessarily in terms of when you read it or
heard it, because I don't know.
I'm pretty sure you're like meeven though I'm reading
something, my mind goessomewhere else, Like yeah,
they're they.
They meant it this way, but Ican use it this way, Right?
You know what I mean, so I'dlike to hear your interpretation
.

I'm going to give you one little gem.
Okay, John Wooden, basketballcoach, UCLA won like 10 titles,
it's so weird.

You just said his name.

he the pyramid of life, yes, but one of his
favorites, yeah, yeah yeah, oneof his favorite sayings is it's
what I learned after I knew itall that made me the man I am
today, and I'm thinkingpriceless yeah I've kept that
with me forever because it is sotrue yeah, so true so true,
yeah, no, that's good.
So yeah, and that's one of myfavorites, john Wooden.
Yeah, if you don't, you got todig into him.

Yeah, he's just brilliant yeah.

I just started, oh did you, yeah, I just yeah.

It's so weird.
You.
He's one of the all-timegreatest NBA coaches of all time
.

No.

NCAA, ncaa yeah.

Well, whatever, a short guy like you doesn't know
basketball, not at all but he'sawesome.

But I will kick your ass at a game, one-on-one
Probably yeah.

Probably I tore my Achilles years ago.
It's all Nick's fault.

Excuses are already coming.
No, I love you but lacrosse,I'll let you kick my ass, I'll
give you that one.

Anyhow, how about?

pickleball we can play pickleball.

When I beat you don't cry.
We can't play 77 games untilyou win one.
And then you say I won.

Why it's the last one that counts.
I'm just warming up, alright.
Well, thank you everybody.
Thank you, chris, for coming,and thank you everybody for
joining us on this Wednesdayedition of Behind the Tool Belt,
episode 279.
If you haven't liked, loved andsubscribed yet, please do that,
and if you know anybody thatmay get something out of this,

(57:22):
please share it with them orreach out to us, ask.
Ask us any questions in thecomments.
We do follow back up.

Be intentional.
Yeah, be intentional.

Till then, we will see you guys next week, as
Vic and I will be on the road.

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