Behind the Leadership Curtain

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Behind the Tool Belt returns to its roots with an inside look at leadership development and relationship building through a conversation with TC Backer sales leader Ben Catlin.

• Ben shares his journey from Michigan to Pennsylvania, including his early influences in music and sports
• Family connections played a key role in shaping Ben's character and work ethic
• Breaking into sales happened gradually through college experiences and car sales
• The transition from car sales to construction came from prioritizing family time
• Leadership capital refers to the trust bank built through consistent behavior and communication
• Effective leadership empowers team members to think for themselves rather than following directives
• Creating relationships across departments breaks down communication barriers
• TC Backer differentiates itself through customer-focused approaches rather than one-size-fits-all solutions
• Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) help maintain consistent quality even in challenging situations
• Continuous learning and staying open to new perspectives drives company growth

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Episode Transcript

Ty Cobb Backer (00:00):
And we are live.
Welcome back everybody toBehind the Tool Belt.
I'm your host, ty Cobb-Backer.
Thank you for joining us onthis Wednesday edition.
Today we have another specialguest.
Stay tuned.
We will be back after our shortintro from our sponsors.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to Behind the Tool Belt, where the stories
are bold, the conversations arereal and the insights come to
you live, raw and uncut.
Every week, host Ty Cobb-Backersits down to bring you the
stories, the struggles, thelessons learned and the wins.
No filters, no scripts, justthe truth.

(00:53):
Please welcome your host ofBehind the Tool Belt, ty
Cobb-Backer.

Ty Cobb Backer (00:58):
Let's go.
Welcome back everybody toBehind the Tool Belt.
I'd like to welcome everybody.
We have another amazing guesttoday and Vic and I were talking
last night about.
Obviously, we've been talking alot, we always talk a lot,
sometimes probably too much, butin this particular case we were

(01:21):
talking about um, you know,getting back to our roots and
and you know back to the basicsof behind the tool belt, where
basically it started in abasement, literally garage band
basement.
You know, iphone 8, all thegood stuff, and it was a lot of.
It was about tc backer and thatwas the.

(01:43):
The birthplace of.
Behind the tool belt waspromoting windows, door siding,
solar gutters, right, and man itjust became.
It was tough coming up withcontent, but the cool thing was
is that it engaged the entirecompany.
The entire company was engagedwith it.
I mean, tyler, sam, everybodywould watch every night.

(02:04):
It was 7 PM Eastern standardtime every single Wednesday and
we haven't missed a week sincethen.
285, 283 weeks ago we startedthis and there's been a.
It's been an amazing journey.
We've been, we've traveledaround the country, we've taken

(02:25):
this place, places that I wouldhave never expected, invited,
places when, years and years andyears ago, I was told not to
come, not to these particularplaces.
But you know, I just the way,my past history, my years ago,
it was kind of like people neverinvited me to go out with them
or where I was asked to leaveand and things like that, just

(02:47):
because I was a little rowdyyeah, fair enough.
So, anyhow, we wanted to do aspotlight and start with ben and
you know I was thinking.
It's like you know I wanted tointroduce you as my friend and I
wanted to ask you like I knowit sounds like a dumb question,
it's like I know you're, youknow a co, you know leader,

(03:11):
you're, you're a team member ofthe team and it's like you know
my friend Ben.
It's like Brent Ben, are wefriends?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer (03:18):
Yeah absolutely.
And I think, and that's a good,great response and it's like and
growing more, I think, as it'slike and and and growing more, I
think, as as time goes on, andand uh, and I know that sounded
like a weird question, but itwas a question I asked myself
because I'm thinking how am Igoing to introduce Ben to the
stage?
And, you know, do I introduceBen as my, as my friend is, my
friend Ben, that I've known forseveral years now, um, directly,

(03:43):
indirectly, through familymembers, and and and stuff like
that, and and we, we teamed up acouple of years ago and and and
you came onto the team and and,uh, kind of worked your way up
to the ranks and kind of likethe way that you know we, we
were hoping it would work out,and here you are today, and so
we decided to kind of bring youin as as our first.

(04:05):
You know spotlight.
You know Ben Benji Benji,vitamin Catman, aka known as Ben
Catlin, everything else butthat usually, when you're in the
room with me and you know oneof the things, that if you know
me and if you have a pet name ora nickname that I give you,

(04:26):
that actually means something.
I'm throwing that out there toanybody.

Ben Catlin (04:30):
Oh, I know.

Ty Cobb Backer (04:31):
If you don't have a nickname okay, there's
something wrong.
I probably don't like you.
You know I hate to say that, soI'm sorry if there's anybody
that's in this building todaythat doesn't have a nickname.
Uh-oh, I probably forgot, Notnecessarily because I don't like
you, but anybody that I seefrequently.
You know that I care for.

(04:53):
I don't know what it is aboutme, but I don't know.
I just grew up that way, Iguess, and so anyhow.
So, Ben Ben Caitlin.
Welcome to the stage, Caitlin.

Ben Catlin (05:03):
Caitlin.

Ty Cobb Backer (05:04):
Yeah, caitlin, I know you love that.

Ben Catlin (05:06):
Got it my whole life man.

Ty Cobb Backer (05:07):
Cat man.

Ben Catlin (05:09):
Any of my family members that are watching right
now.
I apologize for Ty calling usCaitlin, but that's all right.

Ty Cobb Backer (05:15):
No doubt.
I do know a Jim Caitlin spelledwith a K, though, yeah.
Spelled the same exact way.
Yeah, but they spell it with aK.
I know it's Catlin.

Ben Catlin (05:24):
Yes, I've always been this, always, I mean to
this day.
Like I only have a homeownercall and they're like hey, I'm
looking for a Ben Catlin.
I'm like oh, that's me, I'm BenCatlin.

Ty Cobb Backer (05:33):
Yes, oh, I'm sorry, but so anyhow, welcome.
Welcome to the stage.
I know you've been on here acouple of times.
You know, usually I thinkaround home, home show stuff.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer (05:48):
Yeah, and I always enjoy our conversations
and I know you studiedleadership, you know just as
much as I do, and and I thought,well, why not?
And for those of you that maynot know, Ben, you know we're,
we're going to probably dig backinto you know, you know who Ben
was and what his, what has madehim who Ben is today, and like

(06:12):
what has become like your moralfiber today, Like things happen
to us, whether it's careers or,I don't know, family situations,
I don't you know.
Obviously, people take it asdeep as they want and and, uh,
we'll start there and then we'llkind of just dig, dig into you
know where, where we're at today, what it was like how you got

(06:34):
here, and kind of like what it'slike now.
And, uh, so, Ben, the, the, thestage is yours, man, Like kind
of get, kind of give us, give us.

Ben Catlin (06:43):
Try to fit it in what 45 minutes or so.
Yeah, trying not to make thistoo bad, but no.
So I'm technically a transplant.
I know we're here in York,pennsylvania.
I did not grow up here.
I'm not from here.
I grew up in Michigan.
I was technically born.
I'm technically a Texan.
I was born in Texas.
My dad when I was technicallyborn, I'm technically a Texan, I

(07:06):
was born in Texas.
My dad, when I was born, was inthe military and I was born in
Fort Hood, texas or around FortHood, texas.
And then, when I think it wasone or one and a half two years
old, we moved up to Michigan.
Uh, that's where I grew up,that's where my family's from,

(07:27):
both my mom and my dad, uh,families are from central
Michigan, that area, um.
And then, uh, dad, uh, got adifferent job or a promotion
with his job and we moved downto Metro Detroit or a promotion
with his job, and we moved downto Metro Detroit and that was
when I was in, I guess, 11 yearsold or so.

(07:53):
So first, 10 years, backwoods,redneck stuff, you know, uh,
good old boy stuff, if you, ifyou will, uh, with a Canadian
accent.
Basically, uh, cause I've beentold quite a few times my years
living here in Pennsylvania thatI have a.
I've been told quite a fewtimes my years living here in
Pennsylvania that I have adistinct accent and people
usually think that it's Canadian.
But it's not, it's justMichigan, it's just Michigander.

(08:20):
But yeah, and then growing upwas really into sports, really
into music.
Um, my, my dad's side of thefamily, um, I have three uncles
and my dad and, uh, mygrandfather.
They, they played, uh, theyplayed country music, uh, on the
weekends.
I think that's uh what I'vebeen told, that's how my uncles
and my dad made their allowancemoney is they would, they would

(08:41):
go play, uh, either local Vfwhalls or things like that, and
play, play a couple hourscountry music, um, type thing.
So that's always been likewithin graph for me, always, um,
and from a, from a musicalstandpoint, I've always I can, I

(09:02):
can distinctly.
I can distinctly remember myfirst favorite song.
My first favorite artist wasJohnny Cash, folsom, Prison
Blues, nice, and my dad had therecord.
But I remember in the morningsbefore school, waking up before
mom and dad, because I'm anearly riser, used to be, anyway,
I was an early riser and Iwould get, you know, yell that

(09:24):
to quiet down.
So I would, and I would quietmyself down by turning on the
Johnny Cash record and playingthat.
And then something happened tome, musically wise, that just
opened up my, just opened up theentire universe for me as far
musically goes.
And it was actually when thefirst time I ever heard

(09:46):
nirvana's smells like teenspirit, that, the intro, the
drums, the, the dirty soundingguitars like that.
That was the first time I heardthat and the rhythm and
everything and just it was likeit just opened up an entire
universe for me.
And then from there you getother other influential bands
and songs.
Or like green first time I everheard green day when I come

(10:08):
around, like the, that rhythmwith everything, yeah, um, punk
rock, you know, uh.
And then that led into otherbands like, um, third eye, blind
, uh.
That when, like their firstfirst couple albums, was really
influential to me.
It's more on the pop side, butit was still influential Stuff

(10:30):
that I like, I like the sound ofit.
And then, with my country rootstoo, I like guys like Alan
Jackson.
I could name off a whole bunchof old country artists yeah, the
old school stuff.

Ty Cobb Backer (10:44):
Yeah, new country's old school stuff.
Yeah, yeah, New country's notthat's the same.
Yeah, yeah.

Ben Catlin (10:49):
Yeah, it's basically rock these days, but at any
rate, um so music was really abig and still is a huge part.
I mean, I think this mightthat's my language Like, uh like
, if no-transcript.

Ty Cobb Backer (11:26):
It helps connect and bring people together, for
sure yeah.

Ben Catlin (11:29):
Yeah, this, this, that's always like I joke, but
like when you're when you'retrying to figure out how to be a
professional salesperson andyou don't know what questions to
ask when you first meetsomebody, I always found that
and it was a joking matter.
We were like so you like music?
Who's going to say no, I don'tlike music, like it, no one's
going to say that.

(11:49):
So but yeah, I was really intomusic in high school, was in.
We made our own punk rock band.
We did covers of punk rockstuff.
We wrote our own stuff.
We had a very brief littlenuance where we played like the
high school talent show andeveryone thought we were rock

(12:09):
stars.
We were really more.
We just had like one song, butit was a good time.
Yeah, it's fun, a little bit offun with that.
And then, going back to theother side of me too, is sports.
Sports are just a huge, a hugebackground.
My first, my first like love ofsport, was actually baseball.
Um, I remember, I remember umplaying playing t-ball and um,

(12:35):
my first coach was my dad, andthen, um, and also my
grandfather too, taught me howto throw baseball properly Huge,
huge thing.
And then my dad would teach mehow to swing a baseball bat and
then my grandpa would also teachme how to properly swing a
baseball bat and then like, sothere's that into.

(13:05):
Of all the sports I played, Ithink I was the best at football
and, uh, I didn't start playingfootball until I was nine years
old, I believe.
Um today's day and age, I thinkthat's late, cause I think
they're letting kids playfootball at a younger age than
that.
But at the time, with thelittle town that we grew up in
of Alma, michigan, it was likenine, you was like the earliest
you could start football and our, uh, our first, my first coach

(13:27):
was actually my uncle and myfamily's huge, uh, huge part,
cornerstone of of my life.
Um, my uncles are and aunts aresurrogate mothers and fathers.
Um, my cousins are brothers andsisters sisters my grandfathers
and my mother, my grandmotherswere basically surrogate mothers

(13:50):
and fathers to me as well asfar as that goes, and it helped
that we were all sort of prettyclose as far as proximity area
wise.
So it just made sense that myuncle, kevin, my cousin Alex's
dad, was our first footballcoach and he taught us how to
play football the way that wethought we should play football,

(14:11):
and we're obviously, just bylooking at me, I'm not a, wasn't
a.
I wasn't a skinny kid or a fastkid.
I was one of the big uglies thatwas in the trenches hitting
somebody every single play, andwhat I loved about the sport was
I don't know if you knew thisabout football but you can hit
somebody as hard as you can andyou don't get in trouble for it.
I found that fascinating.

(14:32):
I loved it.
So that was basically a hugeinternal stepping pad for me of
like hey, I can, I can, uh, hitsomebody and I'm not getting
trouble for it.
In fact, everyone's applaudingme and screaming good job
because I hit somebody reallyhard, like this is awesome, like
let's do this again, let's dothis more.

(14:54):
So there's that.
But uh, like the, but myfavorite sport, my favorite
sport is, uh, ice hockey.
So I, I love hockey and thatprobably just because I grew up
in Detroit in the mid to late90s through early 2000s, the
professional hockey, the onlygood professional team, we had

(15:14):
in the city of Detroit, was theDetroit Red Wings, all those
guys.
I could go on for hours aboutthat, but huge fan of ice hockey
, just in general.
So you know, talk about themusic, talk about that.
And then how did I get in thesales?
I'm glad you asked yeah, howdid I get in the sales?

Ty Cobb Backer (15:34):
Yeah, how did you get in the sales so?

Ben Catlin (15:35):
long story.

Ty Cobb Backer (15:36):
That was my next question, yeah.

Ben Catlin (15:37):
Yeah, yeah, so I got in the sales, believe it or not
.
And cars, yeah, uh, I got intosales, believe it or not.

Ty Cobb Backer (15:43):
And, um, cars are another huge thing of just
being well, let's, let's rewindwhen, like, did the sales thing
happen in Detroit or after youmoved?
It happened when, I moved.

Ben Catlin (15:56):
It happened to.
Well.
I guess the the beginning partsof selling happened when I was
in college, believe it or not,and I remember we had to do.
I was in a creative writingclass in college because I
really didn't apply myself verywell in high school so I had to
take, like, the remedial classes.

(16:17):
I like talked my, I knew I wasa salesman when I when I talked
myself into the college I endedup going to.
So I didn't have the grades.
Honestly, I had no right ofgoing to the college that I went
to at Elmwood College.
It's a very prestigious, verysmart, academically enriched
school.
I had no right going to thatschool.

(16:38):
I literally I found someone Icould talk to that was on the uh
, the administrative side ofthings, the admission side of
things, and I literally talkedmyself into into the college.

Ty Cobb Backer (16:50):
So so that was over in Michigan, Okay.

Ben Catlin (16:53):
Um, and then, uh, creative writing class we had to
begin because I like music somuch I really wanted to be
either a lawyer or I wanted tobe a music executive, cause I
was like I don't have the talentto actually be like a musician,
like, but or I want to be aproducer or something, something
behind the scenes.

(17:14):
So I really want to do thatcreative and creative writing.
We had to, uh, we had to do anactual, uh research project.
And one of my history teachersin high school he was actually
roommates with a guy that was amusic executive at a actual
record company in Los Angelesand I just I circled back to my

(17:39):
history teacher from high schooland he goes don't mess this up.
But he said that you could callhim.
Here's his phone number.
Just don't, don't, don't messit up.
So I talked to him and then Ihad to make this whole research
project and in that I did awhole sales presentation on
wanting to be a music executive.
Everybody else was just like.
And then I remember myprofessor she's going, you know,

(18:01):
I think you're going to be asalesman.
I'm like.

Ty Cobb Backer (18:10):
I don't want to be a salesman because no one
wants to be a salesman.
Yeah, it sounds, I think, theinterpretation that we perceived
over sales person.
I think it always I don't know,just I don't know people.

Ben Catlin (18:22):
There's always that negative connotation.

Ty Cobb Backer (18:24):
Yes, that's what I was looking for.
Yes.

Ben Catlin (18:27):
You know it, you know they.
They say, oh, license to stealor whatever that is.
But you, you have a.
You have a the mindset of.
If you detach from the wholesituation and live in the idea
that every person on this planet, whether they recognize it or

(18:48):
not, is it truly a salesperson,whether it's a salesperson or
herself.
Yeah, like I could be.
I could be a roofer.
I could be legitimately on theproduction crew.
I'm a salesman in some capacitybecause I have to sell myself
to my to my other guys on thecrew Team yeah, yeah, exactly,
homeowners, whatever.

Ty Cobb Backer (19:02):
Yep, yeah, your wife.
Myself, to my absolute.
My other guys on the crew teamyeah, yeah, exactly, homeowners,
whatever.

Ben Catlin (19:04):
Yep, yeah, your wife yeah, yeah, and that that's
your thing too.
Yeah, you just like it's yeahthe, the, I guess, the sooner
you recognize it well and evenokay.

Ty Cobb Backer (19:16):
so we had somebody fill out an application
today, okay, well, what do youthink he was doing when he was
out there during his interview?
His first interview was withtam.
What do you think he was doing?
I, he was out there during hisinterview.
His first interview was withTim.
What do you think he was doing?
I mean, he's applying for anon-sales position, but he came
in here to sell himself.
So I agree and to solidify yourfact is that you know, at some

(19:37):
point in time throughout thecourse of our lives, we're
selling ourselves, we're sellingother people.
It could be at the post office,could be at the grocery store,
could be negotiating over aparking spot.
You're, you're sellingsomething.
Yep, yeah, for sure, for sure.

Ben Catlin (19:52):
Yep.
So, but I, finally I made theprofessional leap when I
graduated from college and I hadthis big fancy piece of paper
that says that I was reallysmart and I couldn't find a job
to save my life because thishappened during the great
repression, or whatever we'recalling it, whatever it's called
Recession, recession, sorryyeah, recession of 2008, 2009

(20:16):
type thing.
So imagine me being in themiddle of nowhere in Michigan
with a fancy piece of paper thatI got, saying I was smart and
thinking, oh yeah, I got thispiece of paper, I'm going to,
I'm going to do everything now.
I went from, went through fromthe school of thought to the
school of hard knocks.
So, um, truthfully, mom and dadmoved from Michigan to

(20:42):
Pennsylvania because mom's avery, very, very, very
professional accountantcontroller.
She worked for Kellogg's andthey have a Pop-Tart factory in
Muncie, so that's where that.
And then I had to do the at age23, move back in with mom and
dad for a little bit.
And then dad was dad was sellingcars for a big group up there

(21:07):
and uh, got me an interview andthen I sold myself to the sales
manager and he hired me and thenI started selling uh Nissan's
for two and a half years andthen I uh sold BMWs here in York
for a little bit and then, uh,I spent a bulk of my uh sales,
uh car sales career up inmechanics, berg and some motor

(21:29):
cars group.
Uh sold Audis and it was.
It was that's where I reallybecame professional, but that's
the big leagues.
Like.
There's a difference betweenjust being a sales car salesman
type thing, like you really haveto dig deep and work on your

(21:49):
interpersonal yeah, where you gofrom sales to actually catering
to people's needs and wants.
Yes, yeah, there's the biggestthing Want.

Ty Cobb Backer (21:57):
Yeah, yeah, big, big, big difference between
sales and catering to needs andwants.

Ben Catlin (22:01):
Yeah, and which was really like when I reflect on
like what we're trying to dohere as a company too.
It really parallels on tryingto maximize the most of what we
have at our disposal as acompany of creating the best
customer experience we possiblycan, and that's ultimately what
I learned, like shout outs.
As far as that goes, go to guyslike John Yetter.

(22:25):
Um, I don't know if he'swatching, I don't know if he's
going to watch this, but he isparamount in the development of
the person, the personal, thetrue personal professional sales
experience.
That, uh, he taught me and Igrew beyond that, but he was the
launchpad of, of developing thewhat, what I am professionally

(22:47):
today is is that, uh, onus toJohn as far as that goes, cool,
so, um, and then, basically,long story short, had a started
started making a family and carindustry.
Being a car sales Hours are verylong and I didn't want it to be

(23:09):
a situation where I didn'trecognize and my kids didn't
know me.
So I made the switch from carsto construction roofing and
haven't looked back since.
I love it, it's, it's great'sgreat, especially what we do,
because what we do as a company,we were, yeah, we're roofers,
right, but we do gutters, we dowindows, we do doors, do solar.

(23:32):
If you want to do solar, we, wedo siding.
We will build you a deck if youwant us to.
So that makes it for me in myadhd.
That makes it really funbecause it's something new every
day, like when the, when theguys, what's the position?
I'm at now.
The dichotomy of our, of ourcompany, where I'm at now for
your team, is I, I get, I get tosit with the guys on all the

(23:57):
stuff Like it's, it's not justmy stuff, I get to help the guys
out with all the stuff.
It's, it's not just my stuff, Iget to help the guys out with
all the stuff.
And then I can also use myexperience on, like the, the
lessons learned, like, oh man, Imessed this one up a couple of
years ago.
Hey, make sure we don't say thisor hey, make sure we're looking
at these parts of the house tomake sure that we're going to

(24:19):
get it set off on the right foot, like so.
It's little learningexperiences again, school hard
knocks, yeah, but if you winmore than you lose, then you're
pretty good, I think no doubt.
No one's perfect.

Ty Cobb Backer (24:31):
No, that's great .
It's great and you shared withus a lot of things that I I
didn't.
I mean, I've heard bits andpieces.
You talk about Michigan, youlove the red wings and and and
hockey and and football andstuff like that, but I don't
think I've ever heard the fullstory or you mentioned it the
way that you did.
And it's kind of cool because Italked about moral fiber right,

(24:53):
and listening to you basicallyin your development, right,
Family music, which is hugeinfluence on me as well, and and
who I hung out with and and whohelped design my character,
right, like listening to kurtcobain, that that that seattle
sound yeah during the the 90slike era.

(25:15):
That was, that was my biggestthing.
And and getting back in, youknow family, you very, very
family oriented, your unclecoaching you football and your
dad at T-ball and you knowthings like that and that's
that's pretty nifty.
A lot of people can't say, saythat you know what I mean,
especially nowadays with with.
You know single parents and andthings like that.
So that's, that's, that's cool.

(25:36):
And then into sales andovercoming the adversities of
the great recession and pivotedover into sales and made a
living out of that and wasmentored by the gentleman that
you mentioned earlier.
And now that you now whereyou're at today, you have the
opportunity to pass on what hasbeen so freely given to you, and

(26:00):
that's that's really the moralfiber of of TC backer right Is
is giving back right what, whatwe are teaching ourselves on a
day-to-day basis, like I saidearlier, you know, I know you're
a student of of leadership andcontinuously trying to push
yourself and elevate yourselfand educate yourself in order to
educate other people.
And then the the great thingabout this is, like you know

(26:25):
it's not, we're not an Andersonwindow where it's.
You know we're in your home forthree hours until you sign and
getting ready, I think there'sno hard close it's.
It's we're in the retail space.

Ben Catlin (26:35):
God, please no no, right.

Ty Cobb Backer (26:38):
So so you know, being in the retail space,
people are actually we're soughtafter, right?
So people are seeking us outand that's what's kind of,
that's what's really cool aboutwhat it is that we do.
So obviously there's a needthere, so we get to go out and
service their needs and providethem value and walk them through
this journey that in most cases, when it comes to construction,

(27:01):
isn't a very pleasantexperience, and I think that's
that's a lot of homeownershesitation about calling,
especially a roofing contractoror any type of, you know,
exterior construction, just like, just just as much as
salesperson, like, oh my God, aroofer.
Right, there's, there's astigma around that, and what

(27:23):
we're really trying to do isimprove the industry as a whole
and but more importantly, itstarts here, about what we're
doing.
Right, we're trying to lead byexample and be be the pioneers
and trailblazers.
And you know we had an amazingmeeting last last three weeks.
Yeah, we we've had an amazingmeeting about, you know,
overcoming objections out in thefield, right, not overcoming

(27:46):
objections with homeowners, eventhough that's that's something
I'm sure that you review withyour team on a day to day basis.
But more importantly, it waslike you know when things go bad
, how are we going to handlethem?
Right, and we don't want ourteam responding out of fear,
outside of a healthy fear.
Right there, there won't be anyunhealthy fear that they should
be struggling from.
It should be a healthy fear oflike.

(28:08):
Okay, we we need to take careof this issue.
We stumbled across what was thegutter guard that was on the
house, but what was that?
It?
was like a gutter helmet,something like that, Right,
which is the worst product outin the market anyhow.
But you know, okay, shit, theygot it.

(28:29):
What are we going to do?
We have to take it off in orderto get our drip edge on,
instead of everybody panicking.
So we came up with a resolutionof like what's the process,
what's our SOP?
You know to handle thesituation.
Salesperson didn't mess up,Homeowner didn't mess up,
Production ops nobody messed up.
It's just just gotta get thisdone.
We just stumbled across thissituation.
It's like okay, once we take itoff it's gonna run.
Okay, cool, replace it withlifetime warranty stuff that we

(28:52):
provide workmanship andmanufacturer warranty on win-win
for everybody.
Now they get free gutterscleaned out right, new gutter
guards, cool, no problem, noharm, no foul.
And that's our approach.
Yes to not like let's see howwe can reinstall this damaged
gutter helmet that we justdestroyed.

(29:12):
Taking off, it's like, no, thatwas like the furthest thing
from our mind.
So to to have that type ofmindset compared to the
sleazeball roofing contractorsalesperson, you know what I
mean.
Like it's like, and I can'tremember I snake oil sales.
Yes, I did some research on theactual word sales and we were.

(29:34):
We were at hunter's office andI did.
The word sales means help and Idon't know if it's old english
or old latin.
I think it's latin.
If you look it up, salesactually means give and help
somebody and somewhere along thethe decades and generations,
and in terms of the century, theword sales has just become not

(29:56):
a very flavorable choice ofwords when we put it on our
business card.
I mean to the point where Ithink we were trying to like
figure out how, how else can wecome up with?
anything but a sales rep,salesperson, saleswoman, it's
like we try to get away with it.
But you know, yeah,unfortunately it is what it is.
But you've called us and howcan we make this a pleasurable

(30:20):
journey?
Right, and it's like every daywe're continuously trying to
work on improving the customer'sexperience and journey.
You know, and that's that'swhat's really cool, because we
have control over, we can gowith the status quo and handle
everybody the same way.
Everybody else is handlingthings and and getting online

(30:41):
and talking shit about how muchbetter we are, and you know it,
we don't do it like so-and-sodown the street.
It's like, okay, no, we're justgoing to allow our actions to
speak louder than our words.
We're not here to to make anyother roofing contractor look
bad and we're sure as hell notgoing to preach it from the
rooftops of you know how muchworse they are than us because

(31:02):
ultimately, at the end of theday, they have the same exact
resources, tools, products as wedo.
Yep, right, so how are we goingto differentiate ourselves from
everyone else when everyoneelse basically has the same
tools and resources as we do?

Ben Catlin (31:17):
We prioritize what's important to that individual
homeowner.
We create center focused onthat particular homeowner.
That's what sets us apart.
We go into every meeting,whether it's an appointment set
weeks in advance or just acouple of days in advance, and
we try to we cater tounderstanding, because how can

(31:41):
you help somebody if you don'ttruly understand what the
problem is?
That's that's what we're tryingto do here, like and and.
There are plenty of instanceswhere maybe we're, maybe we just
can't help out that particularhomeowner.
But guess what?
We've got some people that weknow that we can give you, we
can, we can help you out with atleast establishing that

(32:02):
relationship with someone elsethat could help you with what
you're experiencing on yourhouse.
Like that's us, that's what wedo, yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer (32:12):
No, that's great .
You know I love this topic.
I love this subject, I love ourcompany, I love our team and
you know that's the thing too wetalk about.
You know team members andco-leaders and things like that.
And it's like I was told a longtime ago that the fish always
stinks at the head first.
Right, and that has stuck withme.

(32:32):
I was in a meeting withsomebody and unfortunately it
wasn't.
It wasn't about me.
I just got to witness andexperience a situation where
that particular comment wasbrought up in that conversation
and it has always stuck with meto make sure that and I'm not
saying I've never put us myselfin a situation where the head

(32:53):
started to stank.
But you know, through trials anderrors and things like that,
you know you just try to.
You know, improve upon, but youknow, allowing, allowing you
guys to, to make decisions rightand giving you that, that, that
type of empowerment.

(33:14):
And and I came up withsomething a while ago, um, and
I'm sure I heard it someplacealong the way but um, basically
it's like you know, stop tellingthem what to think.
Basically, it's like you know,stop telling them what to think,
but encourage them how to think.
Do you know what I mean, andthat's just my job today is to

(33:34):
kind of like be that guide.
Like this morning in thatmeeting it was like I was asking
questions, not because I wastrying to poke holes in anything
.
I was asking questions becauseI wanted to hear you guys come
up with the solution.

Ben Catlin (33:44):
Work through it ourselves.

Ty Cobb Backer (33:45):
Yeah, work through it.
That's why you know we keptflipping it back to like all
right, next week I want to seeyou guys work on these things,
because what that does is thatempowers everybody.
Now they're making decisions onhow the KPI should be designed,
right.
They're making the decisions onhow the SOPs will be put in
place for those future peoplethat come into the company right

(34:08):
, and we've already talked about, like, jeremy needing an
assistant, and it's likeeverybody by that form of clear
communication and verytransparent, and calling each
other out on like, okay, yeah,the salespeople shouldn't be
doing this anymore because theysuck at it, and really it should
be production, because they'realready there or whatever.

(34:29):
However the conversation went,you know what I mean, and
production sucks sometimes too,but there's always that there's
a bridge that we need to gap,and you're not the gap.
By the way, I was telling Benthis morning that he was the gap
and not the bridge.
You were actually the bridge togap.
You know the communication fromthere to over there, and that's

(34:50):
where I think a lot of peoplethere's a miscommunication.
It's like, yes, we want thatcompetitive spirit, we want that
healthy competition amongst youguys and in your group.
We love that, we need that.
And it's like how many jobs canyou sell to make the production
team stumble?
Yeah, you know what I mean.

(35:10):
And vice versa, it's like, allright, come on, guys, you guys
aren't selling enough.
Like that, this is easy overhere.
Then it's like we're trying tocreate a good problem.
Yeah, essentially is what we'retrying to do, but we need that
clear communication.
And and and we were talkingabout earlier, before we got on
here, was leadership capital.
Yes, okay, and and.

(35:33):
Where my head goes when I hearthat phrase, leadership capital
not only is it like a trust bankwhere, over time of being
consistent, you start to buildup trust.
I also look at it in terms ofwhen to use the authority and
when not to use the authority.
Like, do I want to burn mycapital up on some useless stuff

(35:56):
where I'm scolding people, ordo I pick and choose my battles
wisely enough?
Because then when I do drawthat line in the sand, they I
mean business yep exactly,exactly, exactly.

Ben Catlin (36:07):
That's.
That's a.
That's a pivotal thing there'sin that I played football all
the way through college andalways, always recognized,
especially when I was one of theyoung guys on the team the
actual leaders were not only ourbest players, but they're also

(36:27):
the guys that and that wasn'talways the case, but usually
like your best players, likejust so happens to be the one A
good leader.
Yeah, right yeah what I didn'tunderstand and what I could not
stand, to be honest with you,was the one that was the super
rah, rah, rah, rah, rah one.
No, I pay more attention to thedude.
That would actually help theguys that are under them.

(36:49):
And the reason why that guy ishelping the guys under them is
because what if he hurts himself, what if he tears his ACL in
the game?
What, then, are we okay with?
Are we okay with just packingit up and hope we win this game
or we quit, we're done?
No, next man up.

(37:11):
And with that capital I alwayspaid attention to, and in these
later years, in the most recentyears, uh, I've really become,
uh, a huge student of justtrying to grow the leadership
and influence of, of confidencefrom you, so that I can instill

(37:33):
the same stuff for the peoplethat I'm supposed to be helping
out, so that they can do theirjob and they can feed their
families, type thing.
I'm trying to teach them to fish, not just give families, type
thing.
I'm trying to teach them tofish, not just give them a fish.
I'm trying to teach them tofish.
The thing is like what?
What you're honing in on waswas, uh, you know, basically,
we're trying to teach people tofish.
Yeah Right, I'm trying to.

Ty Cobb Backer (37:55):
I'm trying to teach you how to think not you
how to think, not what to say.
Yeah Right, yeah, think on yourown.
Yeah Right, make mistakes.
We need people.
We haven't talked about thisfor a while, but I mean this
morning we did in our meetingbut, like we need people to to
make mistakes hopefully not verycostly mistakes and we talked
about, like, the errors thatwe've made over the years and

(38:18):
and the the safeguards that weand guide rails that we try to
put in place.
But sometimes we hop over thoseguide rails and things happen.
But it's how we deal with them.
You know, if everyone'sterrified that they're going to
get in trouble or they're goingto lose their job, or they're
going to get fired from eithermaking a mistake or thinking
outside the box and bringingideas to the table, and if you

(38:41):
can't make it a collaborativemeeting right and and allow
everybody to participate in itand give feedback, if it's just
one way.
So now you're taking away theempowerment.
Now nothing happens.
Now there's a bottleneck.
Everybody is waiting for theinformation to come from the top
down.
Yeah, okay, and there are timesthat it needs to come from the

(39:05):
top down, but it also needs tocome from the bottom up.
Yeah, and who knows better thanthose on the front lines, right,
and that's why I'm enjoyingthis meeting, too, that we're
having, because, for multiplereasons.
One, because it's kind of like,you know, helping people open
their eyes, like, oh shit, I dohave other resources, I don't

(39:25):
have to take, take on this allby myself, right, and we're,
we're kind of watching Laurencome into her, her, her space
here, like, oh, I do have otherpeople here that I can flip that
on and put a barrier between meand I think it's what you said
yesterday actually, when the inthe global meeting was
delegation.

Ben Catlin (39:45):
Yeah it's OK to delegate.
Nobody is going to call youlazy because you're delegating
certain things.
Because you have to prioritizewhat's important, what you have
to execute on a daily basis or aminute by minute basis when
you're in the room, what youhave to execute on a daily basis
or a minute by minute basiswhen you're in the room, like
that must be nice to.
I know that when you're talkingabout some stuff, I'm sure I'm

(40:07):
not going to talk for her, butlike I was thinking in the back
of my head, man, it must be niceto have a day by day
prioritizing it.
Mine's literally minute byminute or hour by hour, to be
realistic, like hour by hour.
I had to execute this, this,this, this.
Okay, what has to be done first?
Okay, cool, Make this phonecall, send this email, sit with

(40:28):
the salesperson to make surethat they're good with this
homeowner at this afternoon,like it doesn't matter.
But that's mine's an hour byhour as far as that goes with
what we have to do.
And it's even worse for otherfolks and other positions in the
company or on the team.
Like Lauren and I agree withyou I feel that we are
accomplishing a lot in a smallamount of time with just getting

(40:48):
face-to-face in the same roomon a weekly basis, just to yeah,
that's I'm excited for it andI'm glad you guys are having
your meeting, bridging that gap,keeping that line of
communication open and creatingthose relationships creating
those.
I was actually just trying tofigure out how we could segue
into what we want to talk about.

Ty Cobb Backer (41:05):
Yeah, exactly and I just want to add one thing
to that.
You know, um, one of the thingsthat that I'm enjoying about
being with you and gettingcloser to you, kind of going
back to like developing ourrelationship and and really
galvanizing that is that I getthe opportunity.
What good is the knowledge thatI have if I'm just behind

(41:25):
closed doors all day and you'reupstairs and I've been kicking
myself in the ass for severalmonths probably, and Vic and I
have talked about this for along time.
It's been over months whereI've been just so over inundated
, where I've been just so overinundated, right, with other
stuff.
Okay, and and one of my newyear's resolutions were my my

(41:49):
only new year's resolution wasis to remove things.
You know, most people set goalsand they're piling and stacking
all kinds of shit and it justbecomes a bunch of broken
promises and wonder why yourfucking self-esteem is all
screwed up.
Well, this year I elected toremove people, places, things
and situations in order to, youknow, filter in and be around

(42:13):
certain people, places, thingsand situations that are
conducive to my, my health, mywealth and my spirituality Right
, and my health, my wealth andmy spirituality right.
And it's been a slow go right,so I can get back to the golden
hen, right, that has laid somegolden eggs that tend to

(42:33):
distract me, and I know I'm kindof going off on a little
tangent here, but this is me.
You, nah, I don't believe it.
This is me just trying to unpacka bunch of things too, and
that's one good thing about thispodcast is that has allowed me
to unpack a bunch of stuff.
And you know and this is a partof my, my, my leadership
experience, my leadershipjourney you know me continuously

(42:55):
trying to work on me in orderto accommodate and not to try to
bite off more than I can choose, thinking that I can
accommodate everything at onetime and this has just been my
most recent experiences is like,dude, what you got to get back
to, like what you were tellingyourself.
You know, december 31st, youknow, with your new year's

(43:16):
resolution man, you know thatyou kept adding shit in there,
kept throwing stuff on top ofthe pile.
And year's resolution man, youknow that you kept adding shit
in there, kept throwing stuff ontop of the pile, and it's like,
nah, dude, you got to start,you got to start peeling some of
this stuff away.
So, anyhow, I'm enjoyingspending more time with you and
Lauren and Zach and Glenn andand those people, and we plan on
doing some other areas too thatyou know where I feel like I'm.

(43:40):
I'm nurturing the, the goldengoose again, but it it goes back
to some of my relationshipsearly on.
You know, like Glenn and I'srelationship isn't what it used
to be.
We were, we were pretty tightand, um, you know, lauren and I
were pretty tight when she firststarted here.
Her first six months and wetalk about this probably longer

(44:02):
her first 12 months she rodeshotgun literally in my truck
with me every single day of theweek.
I mean, I don't know what otherway to create and develop an
amazing relationship.
And not that we still don'tlove each other, but we have

(44:24):
grown.
I have grown away, you know,from those relationships that at
one point in time were where Icould look at her and tell her
exactly what was wrong, yeah,you know.
But now it's kind of like I'vekind of grown away from that and
I'm really trying to get myselfback into the relationship
building of of people that Ienjoy being around, yeah, um,

(44:44):
and that that bring joy, thatthat is conducive to my mental
state.
You know what I mean and that'swhat that's what our Wednesday
pros and ops meeting has hasreally done for me.
Just just so you know that,like I'm, you know, and seeing
Amanda's face in there todaytaking notes and stuff, um, has
brought a lot of joy to me.
I look forward to it.

(45:04):
This morning it's cool.

Ben Catlin (45:05):
So like, basically, I think what we wanted to talk
about was leadership, capitaland then the power of the
relationship um I think and withthat.
The just notes are like you know, leadership requires
relationships, goodrelationships with people above
you, below you, beside you.
You know, in the quote, unquotetrenches, you know the next man

(45:30):
or woman on each side of you.
You know that relationship thatyou have with them, um, so the
concept is the better therelationship, the more open and
effective communication there is.
And you've you said it quite alot and I have to agree 100 that

(45:50):
communication is the.
The biggest thing that we haveis humans between each other.
We can actually talk to eachother, um, but anyway.
So the the more effective thecommunication is, and then from
that the steam rolls and growsto the more communication there
is, the stronger the team willbe.
So it's literally the circle oflife.
As far as like how, if you wereto ask me Ben, how, how do I

(46:13):
strengthen the sales team?
We gotta we gotta createrelationships with each other.
We just have to.
We can't just be I'm a guy thatshows up two hours a week, two
hours a week in the office,right, and then that's it Like
no, we got to spend that time.

(46:35):
We got to ask each other thequestions of like, hey, how do
you do how many, how do you knowhow many?
You know feet of Valley We'vegot a?
How many rolls of ice and watershould we got to put in a house
If there's like 30 feet ofValley?
Oh, cool man, yeah, go just talkshop and start with talking

(46:56):
shop and then start talkingabout yourself personally and
then start talking about whatyou like and what you don't like
.
And then then, if you're likeme, then you start making fun of
each other.
And then the next thing youknow you actually have a
relationship and then, withspawning off that, you start
actually communicating well withthat individual and this
individual and that individualand you got yourself a nice

(47:20):
dichotomy of communication.
And then next thing you knowyou're a very strong team, like,
instead of one person that'sgood at doing everything,
everybody in the room is nowgood at doing the stuff.
Because we're communicating,we've established those
relationships, we've galvanizedourselves from within, basically
.
So that's my idea and that'swhat I'm trying to accomplish,

(47:41):
so that you know that's what I'mtrying to accomplish with our
team here in Pennsylvania, withthe sales team, and also being
able to maybe it's a superpowerof mine, but being able to
detach and see something from adifferent perspective.
Just very briefly, not sayingthat I see all the stuff, but
just very briefly seeing thatand then that leading, seeing
the tea leaves, so to say, so wecan maybe do a slight pivot,

(48:05):
not not us about facing all theway, it's just just a slight
pivot so that we can adjust,because that's the other thing
too about all of this stuff isin us, building our
relationships and communicatingeverything.
We also still have to, we haveto be open, and we cannot, we,
we can, we cannot stop learningnew things.
We have to keep an open mindwith everything For sure.
That's and that's how you win.

Ty Cobb Backer (48:27):
Yeah, you, and a lot of what you're talking
about is trust.
Yeah, yes, developing trust,staying consistent.
You know, like you said earlier, you know, not only being here
for two hours, you know, you'renot.
That's not very consistent, youknow, and and there's no way of
being able to build trust andthen even knowing who they

(48:48):
should report to, right, and weexperienced that here too, for
for a brief minute, where it waskind of like, you know, the
teams were split up and then youknow what, whatever, and it's,
you know, being able to pivotbecause ultimately, at the end
of the day, I believe, everybodytrusted us enough, we were able
to build up enough leadershipcapital for for you to stick

(49:10):
around, for Brian, stick around,for the team under you guys to
stick around, until we decidedor made decision of, like, okay,
which direction are we goingnow?
Because we have approachedanother growth spurt, yep, so
what do we need to do here?
And with that, you know, becauseof the trust, the team was able
to adapt quickly, make changes,you know, and we have to,

(49:31):
because markets change, marketconditions change, buyers,
behaviors, buyers, you know,think, all types of things
change and without that openline of communication, we can't
pivot quickly, yeah right, ifeveryone is and this goes back
to decentralized command, likeif everybody's kind of waiting
on me necessarily to make adecision.

(49:53):
And I'm not saying that I'mperfect about this, I'm still
studying.
I'm like I started to write abook 12 steps of of to
leadership, and the problem withthat is is that I'm still
learning.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer (50:09):
That's why it has been published.
Yet you know what I mean Witheverything that I've I've
documented and put down and andwrote.
It's continuously evolvingright, Because it's like the
more that I realize about myself.
You know the my my perceptionof things, of how I used to
think and how I used to handlesituations is totally different,

(50:30):
even even just a couple monthsago.
Yeah, like I'm hearing thingsdifferently and interpreting
them.

Ben Catlin (50:39):
It's, and I I think not to take words out of your
mouth, but what I think you'retrying to say is is you're
keeping that open mind You're,you're not done learning,
nobody's done learning, right,the day that you're done
learning is the day that you die.
Basically, that's the way Ilook at it.
For sure, Like that is, there'sno other way around that.
Like we need to as people youas a person, you as a person, me

(51:02):
as a person, vic over here as aperson we all have to stay
open-minded.
We don't know, we don't knoweverything.

Ty Cobb Backer (51:09):
We don't Exactly , no, we don't, we don't, and I
understand you know people, youknow being decisive versus being
indecisive.
And again, this, this is thattrust bank that we talk about
and that, that capital, thatthat we gain.
You know where, where we can.
There are times that we can beindecisive.

(51:30):
When we're very decisive,hopefully, majority of the time,
outweighs the indecisiveness,you know, and that's where that
trust in the communication comesin, Like when when you're MIA
and you're not available andpeople can't contact you and
they don't know which directionto go because it's a pretty
important decision that needs tobe made.
But once you are learning justas much from your team as that

(51:55):
they've learned from you, that'strue, authentic culture.

Ben Catlin (51:59):
Yep, yes, like they know what my call would be, so
what's the point in calling me?
Absolutely they already knowwhat my call is going to be.

Ty Cobb Backer (52:06):
Right.

Ben Catlin (52:06):
They're just going to do it.

Ty Cobb Backer (52:07):
Exactly, yep, exactly, and if I'm MIA, that
relationship could never beforged or developed by being
inconsistent.
Exactly.

Ben Catlin (52:18):
Exactly If you're not consistent with being
present, not consistent withyour yearning or wanting to
learn to, so you can execute andestablish yourself, and within
the team and what we have to do.

Ty Cobb Backer (52:33):
You know what's the point Exactly.
Yeah, no, this is such a greatconversation.
I feel like we might've wantedto start with that because
probably, that's okay, we can,it's.
This is such a greatconversation.
I feel like we might've wantedto start with that because,
that's okay, we can, it's.
This won't be the last timethat you come on the show, but
you know, and that's the thingit starts it starts with
personal development.
It starts with, you know,taking your experiences that you

(52:53):
were discussing earlier todayyour, your family, your bonds,
how you want to be treated, youknow, is the way you want to
treat other people.
You know all of those thingsthat have defined us right, not
because of our behaviors, right,that's.
I don't want to say ourbehaviors necessarily define us.

(53:16):
It's the things that we havelearned from things that have
happened to us in the way thatwe may have behaved poorly or
good, that truly define us right.
Just because I made a mistake,right, I made a bad call, I
wasn't available today, doesn'tnecessarily mean that's who I am
right.

(53:36):
And having empathy right Bothparties myself, you, you for me,
me for you goes a long ways toand keeping an open mind and and
trying to figure out what.
What can we learn from this?
Why is this happening for usand and and not to us?
We talked about that a littlebit this morning in our meeting

(53:56):
and and taking that right andlearning from it, it's like,
okay, unfortunately there's abig gap there that needs felt.
We need to create another SOPand we've been on this SOP.
Kick for for is is that youknow the standard wasn't set
long ago enough.
Yeah, you know what I'm sayingyou know you got it.

Ben Catlin (54:29):
You have to take it easy on yourself too, because
that every everybody startslearning something at a
particular point in time for areason.
Something at a particular pointin time for a reason that's
what I believe, anyway.
Like something clicks,something out of nowhere you'll
give a little bit of attentionto, and then then you grow off
of that, so you can't kickyourself on that no doubt but

(54:52):
yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm in thegame with you, I'm all for it.
Like it's that, we we need to,as daunting as the task can be,
to create from scratch anotherSOP about this from start to
finish, that's fine.
Like we, we'll figure it out.
Like we'll, we'll get it done.

Ty Cobb Backer (55:08):
And what's cool is is we don't have to do it by
ourselves.

Ben Catlin (55:10):
Yeah, that's, that's the, that's the absolutely
fortunate thing, because I thinkI'm very fortunate for that the
people that we talk about verybriefly on this podcast from
time to time but, yeah, thereare so many people that do
actually do the work.
Um, for for me, like it's, it's, it's astonishing, like how

(55:31):
effective and efficient otherpeople are at me versus me
trying to.
You know, a monkey with twofingers and a keyboard.
Like good luck getting thatdone sometime soon.
So, yeah, it's awesome.

Ty Cobb Backer (55:45):
I feel that I feel that Well, cool we're.
Where are we at about 56 minutesinto this?
Um, is there anything that youwant to leave us with real quick
?
Um, if not, that's cool too.
Um, just want to give a bigshout out, you know, to our
entire team.
I can't, I can't say thatenough, and I think what we're
going to do here randomly iswe're going to pull names out of

(56:07):
a hat, we're going to put everyteam member's name into a hat,
and I'm not going to say once amonth, but but seldom we're
going to pull a name out of ahat and and uh, whether they
like it or not, we may end up intheir office or on their job
site the microphone yeah, andand do a podcast you see that

(56:27):
show it's it's like a betweentwo ferns, whereas it's like
it's that it's set up like likeuh, supposed to be a serious
interview, one-on-one interview,and it just always turns into
it not being real at all.

Ben Catlin (56:42):
But it's yeah stuff like that.
Yeah, it's like I'm, I'm, I'mhere in your office and I'm not
going away, so you might as well, uh, reluctantly answer my
questions.
Yeah, I might go anywhere.
That's what we're doing.

Ty Cobb Backer (56:53):
Hopefully, the majority of everybody will want
to come on the show, but we justwe want to do a highlight of of
everybody who has watched this.
Everybody has has watched this.
I mean this.
We're coming up on five yearsof doing this right and and we
couldn't do this without themand, like I said, we're getting
back to our roots, going back tobasics on a lot of these things

(57:16):
.
Some of this stuff, I'll besolo sometimes where we got a
great guest coming on next weekand if you're in sales, you're
going to want to watch this nextweek.
This is a.
What's his name, Shy Ellis, andwhat's the name of his company?

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer (57:35):
Let's, let's play the promo here real quick.

Ben Catlin (57:37):
Segway.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Join Ty next week when he welcomes shy audis.
He's the founder of one callclose academy and author of
in-home sales a bestsellerthat's changing the game for
sales pros everywhere.
Next week, on behind the toolbelt yeah so super excited.

Ty Cobb Backer (57:56):
Um vick lined this one up.
I don't know this guy from acan of spray paint, so I'm going
into this, not blind.
I'll have to do a little recon,yeah do some recon and that way
I can come up with some goodquestions.
So by me putting that out there, if anybody you know, do some
research.
Vick's going to be running thispromo about this.
This gentleman who's kindenough to go on this podcast,

(58:17):
obviously he must see some valuein it.
Or else I'm gentleman who'skind enough to come on this
podcast, obviously he must seesome value in it.
Or else I'm sure you wouldn'twant to come on, but he does
want to come on the show.
So put some questions.
Either message me throughFacebook, if you got my cell
number, text message me.
But but, ben, get with yourteam and and put together some
questions get some questions.

Ben Catlin (58:39):
Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool.

Ty Cobb Backer (58:40):
Yeah, get me some questions, um, and I'm sure
he's going to want to answerthem, all of them, especially if
it's our own team that that'sasking him those questions.
But, uh, ben, thank you foreverything that you do, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Thanks.

Ty Cobb Backer (58:52):
Thank you for coming on the show at the at the
last minute.
We kind of decided this.
Even though I have.
I have some good stuff thatI've been writing down and some
of it's from the book that I'vebeen working on.
I kind of let the cat out ofthe bag officially right now.
It'll come out, I might.
Just I don't want to just throwshit on the wall and see what

(59:13):
sticks.
I want to make sure that 10years from now, when I review or
read the book, that I stillstand by those thoughts, morals,
you know.
So it's when we're talkingabout leadership here.
I really want to make sure it'sserious stuff.
My personal experience all ofit will be from my personal
experiences, most of itregurgitated things that I've
learned along the way, I'veheard along the way, and with my

(59:38):
slant on it, of course, becauseI don't interpret things the
same as everybody else does.
It kind of takes me offsomeplace else where I may be
able to apply it differently andin a different application than
what it was proposed to me asUm.
But that that'll be.
I don't know when.
There's no date, no launch datefor that, but um, love this
stuff, thank you.

(59:58):
Thank you for coming on theshow at the last minute.
Yeah, I love this stuff, thankyou.

Ben Catlin (01:00:00):
Thank you for coming on the show at the last minute.

Ty Cobb Backer (01:00:01):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Yeah, so thank you everybodyfor tuning in.
We will see you next week.
Same time, same bat time, samebat channel.
So then take care of each other, we'll see you next week.