Stop Shouting, Start Connecting: A Practical Guide To Community-Driven Marketing

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ty Cobb Backer (00:00):
And we are live.
Welcome back, everybody, toBeyond Tool Belt episode 308.
I am your host, Ty Facker, andthank you for joining us again
on this Wednesday edition.
We will be back after our shortintro from our sponsors.com back

(00:43):
to down the point of the toys.
No filter.
No truth.
Just the crypto.
Please welcome your host ofbehind the toolbelt.
Hey, hello, welcome back toeverybody to behind the toolbell
episode 308.
I am your host.

(01:03):
Today we have another returningguest, actually, someone that I
not only respect, but had thechance to hang out with him the
other night at an amazingnetworking event that I guess
you co-hosted, marketed, pushedit.
Um, and he owns a marketingconsulting business, and he is
the host of a podcast himselfcalled Shift Schiff Bar, right?

(01:28):
Shift.
I used to get that shift baueron the rocks.
I think I said it to myself onetoo many times the wrong way,
probably.

Paul Schiffbauer (01:36):
I always myself out.
I remember when I first on wewere play-on words in like ship
bauer, ship builder.

Yeah, that's right.
Ship bauer.
That's right.
That's right.
But but anyhow, uh, you'redoing some big things, man, in
the marketing space and andhelping businesses sharpen their
message and elevating theirbrand presence and and get real
results.
I've watched it, I know peoplethat you work for, and uh, you
know, you're you're the realdeal.
And uh so today we're gonnaprobably dive into a lot of that

(02:05):
and what's working today andand in today's market and how
businesses can build awarenessand the right way, I guess, and
how companies can stand out in acrowded digital world.
So, Paul, how you doing, buddy?
I'm doing great.

You know, it's a Wednesday hump day, it's a
little rainy where we're at,because I know you're on the
other side of the countyrecording, yeah, but um happy to
be here, man.
When yeah, I ran into you,super organic, hadn't seen you
in a while either.
That's a crazy thing, justbecause of life, you know.
Yeah, um, and you're like, youwant to come on the show coming
up?
I'm like, yeah, split snack andI'm like, let's do it, it'll be

(02:44):
fun.

Yeah, you didn't hesitate, that's for sure.
No, it's good, it was good tosee you.
And like you said, I haven'tseen you for a while.
But we were doing a lot oftraveling, you know.
We weren't, you know, we'd comeinto town for a day or two,
sometimes a week, and then we'dgo back out on the road and
between uh expansion with uh TCBacker and then taking the the
podcast on the road there for awhile.

(03:05):
And and this season, becauseright now it's it's roofing
convention season.
This season we decided to justfocus locally.
We wanted to stay local and andyou know, bring local people
back on the show, kind of likeit used to be get back to our
grassroots and stuff.
And when so when I saw you, itwas like perfect timing because
you were, you know, shit threeand a half years ago.

(03:27):
We're actually coming up on sixyears, but I feel like you were
still one of the earlyadopters, you know, one of our
earlier, you know, guests and instudio guests.
You're probably like one of thefirst in studio guests that we
had.
And uh so it's it's pretty coolfor us to be able to catch up
and and uh you know, you know,see where you're at today.

(03:47):
And and uh do you know catchsome of your stuff on social?
But but but first off, man, I Iwant to say what what a great
job that you guys did the othernight on that event.
Um, and I guess if I had aquestion for you, my first
question for you would be whatwhat inspired you to to want to
get you know into that type ofnetworking environment?

Oh, that's a great question.
So it's a little twofold.
So just in general um time forthose checking this out, maybe
live or at a later date.
Um to me, marketing is aboutcommunity at the end of the day.
If I say one word, it'scommunal.
And people might think,marketing is not community.

(04:30):
Well, it is at the end of theday, you know, you're connecting
with folks, demonstrating valueor showcasing certain features,
whatever your product, service,or brand might be, and it's
that connection point.
That's what community is at theend of the day.
It doesn't have to be anecessary digital ad, it's you
know, real life and in-person,like us running into each other.

(04:52):
Um, and ironically, and we're adigital marketing focused
consultancy, but I've gottenmost of my business generated to
date, doing this about sevenand a half years full time, just
doing good work, meeting peoplein person.
Old school, man.
It's that communal aspect.

(05:13):
But to answer your questionabout doing an event on that
scale, um, I've done a couplelike micro events of my own
throughout the years.
I've done kind of collabs likeyou saw with integrity first
home buyers with different likebusiness associations, like um
by local coalitions, a goodlocal one um in South Central
PA.
But um it was really funny andorganic how that came about.

(05:37):
Um, Matthew Toth, businessdevelopment specialist over
integrity.
Um, we got lunch right at thebeginning of October, and we're
just kind of this networking,man.
What are your goals?
What are vice versa?
What are you doing for yourbusiness at integrity for those
guys?
And what am I building overhere?
And um, I told him I have a bigdesire just to do kind of more

(06:00):
events on a larger scale, likeI've done them in the past, but
like moving into 2026, and hesits for a second.
I remember I'll be eating ourcrab cake at White Rose Barn
Grill, and he's like, Do youwant to um help me partner up on
this event?
So I'm like, what do you meanby partner?
You know, if you need a one ofthe sponsored table, he's like,

(06:21):
No, no, no, no, partner.
Like, really put your name onit, push, promote it, co-host
it.
Sat for a second, just like Isat looking at you or stood
looking at you.
I'm in.
Let's do it.
Because to me, it just would bebeneficial to all parties
involved and just the communityat large is I could bring some
people in my network who mightnot be familiar with the kind of

(06:43):
events integrity is hosted andum what they kind of want to do
long term in their respectivenetwork.
Um, we were talking kind ofpre-call.
It seemed like a hit for youknow, just the general attendee
where that might have beenreally their first kind of like
evening networking event, um,seminar.
And then, you know, folks likeyou and some of the other like

(07:04):
uh partners were you know, theywere there present, having
tables, representing theirbusinesses, where there's a lot
of shared value, and I thinkthere's a lot of shared tension.
And um, I told Matthew whileplanning it, the timing's
perfect because having anetworking event about
networking, that's essentiallywhat the theme was.
We had this panel of folks withdifferent backgrounds and

(07:26):
perspectives and how they buildtheir businesses and how they
build you know their own littlecommunities and networks.
Um, I think this time of year,the holiday season in
particular, people get lost whenit comes to networking just
because of life.
You know, everyone has these Xamount of holiday parties, but I
feel like sometimes theintentionality, you know, loses

(07:47):
focus.
And I think this is the mostcritical time to be focused if
you own a business.
And just in general, if youwant to grow as a person,
individual, you know, it's thatclassic end of the year,
beginning of the year, who youwant to be.
This is time you should oftenlook back and reflect now.
Where am I coming up short?
And how can I, you know, betterposition myself and

(08:10):
respectively connect with othersto get where I want to be
moving into 2026.
Where I'm sitting, you know,this time next year in November,
and man, I hit those goalsbecause you know I really sat
down, it was more intentional ofwhat I'm doing day to day and
my business, my life, and thepeople I'm connecting with.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.
No, it was it was an amazingevent, you know, um, from from
our our experience, we had agroup of us there, and uh we we
did end up sponsoring a table.
And I would say I met well, Ire reunited with you.
That's that's very important umpoint right there, too.

(08:51):
But we also connected withseveral different other people
that you know are that may ormay not need our services.
Um, but not necessarily eventhat.
There was, you know, uh a guythat does mortgages and and
things like that.
There was an attorney, uh abusiness, you know, attorney who
focuses on you know businessstuff.
Um I think that might be myattorney who lives there.

(09:14):
Yeah, maybe.
And I got a I got a uh coffeedate with him next Friday.
Nice.
Um actually, no, I'm sorry, notnext Friday, because next
Friday's Black Friday.
It's actually the followingFriday.
We I I was trying to schedule.
We he hit me up and I was like,How about next week?
And I said next Thursdaybecause I looked at my calendar.
Oh, it's open.

(09:35):
I'm wide open, you know, on onthat because I it's just Google
Calendar.
I don't have the holidays inthere.
And he was like, Um that'sThanksgiving.
I was like, oh shit.
Yeah, right, right.
And I was gonna blow him offlike I was just throwing a day
out there next week.
Yeah, no, but uh next week'sgonna be busy as crap for us.
We have our little event thatthat we're doing on Wednesday.

(09:58):
But um, so getting back to kindof touching on what you were
talking about, and and a lot ofthe speakers were bringing it
up.
Um, so what what's yourphilosophy on on building real
relationships versus you knowjust going to one of these
events and and collectingbusiness cards?

Oh, that's that's great.
I'm gonna pull from Mike Tish,a good friend and mentor of
mine, was on the panel.
Steal a little bit, one of hisnuggets, but share for your
audience and folks out there.
Um I think when it comes togoing to an event, and say you
you're meeting people, do alittle research on who's gonna
be in the room if you can.
And Mike gave a great examplebecause he was coming up from

(10:41):
Baltimore County.
He does a little business uphere, um, but this is not his
neck of the woods.
So he immediately looked.
Okay, what names are associatedpublicly with potential
sponsors and people postingcertain things on social media?
Okay, here's this business,here's that business.
I know this person's in theroom.

(11:02):
So if you're going to an event,fish out of water, think about
look at let me rephrase that.
Just look at who's you're gonnaknow potentially gonna be
there.
And think about too, it's justlike what do you need or want
out of the event?
And I think coming into a placemore out of a want than a need
is gonna serve you so muchbecause uh you you can't force a

(11:26):
connection at that point, itbecomes more transactional, it
doesn't become real.
Yeah, so it's just okay, youknow, I'm looking, you know,
potentially maybe I am lookingto pick up a new client.
So look at folks in the room,you know.
If your market is homeowners,how many of them are gonna be
homeowners?
How many of them arepotentially be real estate

(11:48):
agents that can connect you withthose homeowners?
Make a list or make a mentalnote when you're meeting with
them or running into them atthese events.
Okay, I'll follow up withCarter, I'm gonna follow up with
Jimmy because they do this,they serve similar markets.
We might not hit it off rightaway, and you probably
shouldn't.
To me, any relationshipdeveloped professionally in the

(12:11):
networking space, it goes handin hand with dating.
You're not necessarily gonnaget married on the first date.
You shouldn't.
Something's probably probablywrong there unless it's like in
the stars, you know?
Um, but it's planting thoseseeds and and just being really
intentional.
One thing, and people alwayslook at me funny.

(12:33):
So I do have some olderbusiness cards, but I
intentionally nine times out often, don't bring them to events,
Ty, because it's the classic.
I got a card.
It has a mental notepotentially to follow up with
someone.
But if I'm talking to someone10, 20 minutes and we feel like
there could be a next step orthere's an initial connection,

(12:55):
schedule that lunch, schedulethat coffee, yeah, schedule that
Zoom call.
Where hey, we talked aboutthis, why don't we just set out
right now?

Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
That's why I asked you thatquestion because I know you
didn't have any business cardswith you.
And it's like you said, plantplanting seeds, putting yourself
out there, stepping outsideyour comfort zone, you know,
doing some research, like yousaid, to see what what type of
networking event am I going to?
And unfortunately, you know, wewe kind of knew what we were

(13:28):
getting you know involved withwhen we decided to go to that.
And I'll be honest with you, II I wasn't going there to see
what I could actually get out ofit.
We're going with the potentialof what we could bring to to the
table.
And, you know, it it worked outgreat for us because, like I
said, we made at least fiveconnections um and not

(13:49):
necessarily connected at thattime, but other people noticed
that we were there because youknow, we to the table and stuff,
and that was kind of the point,you know, but it was more so,
you know, what could we bring tothe table because and you can
tell, you know, and I hopenobody takes this the wrong way,
but you can tell rookienetworkers, you know, because
they got the stack of businesscards in their hand, you know,

(14:11):
and that might be old schooltoo, but like all their mission
is just to see how many businesscards they get passed out, and
it's like a pat on the back forthem.
Yeah, right.
Like, yeah, I just hand out 50business cards.
Okay, that's great, but whatconnection did you make?
Okay, not just with thosepeople, but what what how were
you the connector?
How were you able to connectother people with other people?

(14:33):
And that's what a lot ofnetworking is about, is being
that guy.
And and I think somebody wasactually talking about the you
know, being being thatconnector.
Like everybody knows that Iknow that guy that might have,
you know, uh a person that has asolution to your problem, you
know, and that's a good place tobe, you know, and because
you're the first person I thinkof to use your services if they

(14:54):
need your services, if you'rethat guy that is authentically
just trying to connect peoplewith people.
Um, but I think it's I thinkit's the conversations that you
have, and it wasn't how manypeople that I got to talk to, it
was the quality of theconversations with the people
that I had when I was there, Ithink is what really um uh you

(15:16):
know affected me, you know,personally while I was there.
And I know some of our teammembers were connecting with
people too, and it seemed likewe were having conversations,
you know, with individuals, theyou know, two or three
individuals the the entire timewe were there, not you know,
going around the whole room,trying to see how many business
cards we could hand out, butbeing super intentional with the

(15:37):
conversation that we werehaving, because I didn't want
people to think, you know, if myeyes were focused someplace
else as they were having aconversation with me.
And I think somebody elsebrought that up.
There was a lot in yourspeaker, the speakers that were
there, they were dropping somegood nuggets.
And and um, you know, gettingback to, and then there's the
flip side to that too.
And and for those of you thatmay have read Grant Cardone's

(16:00):
10x book, he says any room thatyou should walk into, he says,
you know, who's got my the firstthought that should go through
your head is it's who's got mymoney?
Yeah, you know, which whichisn't bad either.
You you know what I mean at theend of the day, and that's just
being authentic.
You know what I mean?
If no, it's at the end of theday, we're in business.

(16:20):
Yeah, right, right.
And that is that's a greatbook.
And and it and it doesn'tnecessarily have to be a
networking event, but asanywhere, and I think somebody
touched on it, you know, youcould be standing in line at
McDonald's, you could be, youknow, um waiting to enter an
elevator or in an elevator withother people, just have
conversations.
That's networking, is justhaving a conversation with

(16:43):
people and and making animpression, hopefully a good
impression on somebody, becauseyou never know if you're gonna
run into them again or wherethat conversation is actually
going to take you.
Because you never know whoyou're standing next to.
You really don't, and you can'talways judge a book by its
cover either.

One of the funniest things in terms of my
business career.
Um I mentioned on our firstedition, me coming on here, used
to go to like all these tradeshows for home furnishings.
And we had a gentleman who didsome like commission sales for
us, and he essentially helpedtee up a deal for us, where he

(17:21):
was talking to this uh gentlemanat this like sales agency where
he would pinpoint brands tothese big online vendors.
It was over a chicken paninisandwich in like the little like
makeshift cafeteria where hewasn't like trying to hard sell
this guy, Steve, at the booth orhey um you looking to come by
our booth, talking about whatthey were eating and then why

(17:44):
you're here, tell me more aboutyou, how long have you been
coming the high point?
Just actually being real.
And it sounds so simple, but atthe end of the day, it's people
read through that.
And my a big thing, especiallyas I've got an older tie, when I
see younger people in the room,or to see people I know where

(18:07):
they're uncomfortable or awkwardbecause like they're getting
out of their comfort zone.
I think the best thing you cando is be real with someone and
just try to make them feelcomfortable in that room.
So that was like my big thinghelping co-host that event was
okay, I know X amount of peopleare coming here, make sure
they're talking to someone orthey're engaged, or getting out

(18:30):
of their comfort zone, or thisis new to them.
Because I had a handful of uhcolleagues and friends for that
matter in the room where, youknow, they haven't come
necessarily to an event likethis.
They've done networking, butit's oh, is it just like B and
I?
Is it like that?
No, this is a different kind offormat.
Come and you want to be realand make people feel

(18:52):
comfortable.
It's it's it's a slam dunk.
I don't care what settingyou're in.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.
You know, and and there's thatold saying, you know, and and
this is true for marketing aswell, too.
It's you know, if you try totalk to everyone, you end up
talking to no one.
No one.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So so speaking of of marketing,how how do you help companies
identify, you know, who who youknow, who their audience is?

Okay, yeah, I love that you teed it up that
way.
Um, because you got my brainstirring.
As soon as you said not beingeverything to everybody.
So just a little context atShip Our Consulting Group, we
specialize in really helpingbusinesses grow click to close.
And we really want to transformthem at the end of the day as
you know, we partner with them.

(19:40):
Where even if it's a short-termengagement, we're going on a
date to start, I'm alwayslooking at the end game.
You know, if they are apartner, if we have similar
values, if we really jive andwe're getting results, they like
it, we like it.
Let's let's keep growing, man.
You know, I want to take you toa pre-revenue company to that,
you know, three to get yourfirst million, get to that five

(20:02):
million mark.
But to answer your question, II love this.
I do a lot of it in really theinitial like sales like
discovery process, but really gomore in depth as we're
onboarding, really getting toknow folks more intimately.
I'm like, what makes youspecial?
What makes you different?
And then in the trades, I'msure you hear it all the time

(20:25):
going to these differentconventions or guys talking to
you with the elevator pitches.
We're gas certified, we have 30years of experience, and we
believe in quality.
Okay.
How many other guys are sayingthat in your space?

Yeah, same message.

Yeah.
Yeah.
We it's we should rework that.
You leverage your experience tohelp homeowners, you know, with
with families have peace ofmind in the Dallastown area.
That's way more specific wherewe want to put a bunch of roofs

(21:03):
on everyone we can, and we'vebeen doing this for years.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah.

And oh, by the way, you know, this is how some
secondary details, you know, wefocus maybe on the Dallastown
community.
I'm just using that as an exrandom example.
Right.
You know, but we get back tothe community.
We actually are very local andfamily driven because we do we
serve primarily homeowners whoare families.
That really further ties it in.

unknown (21:32):
Yeah.

So would you say that's the biggest mistake that
most companies make is thatit's the same wash and and
repeat messaging that I mean,marketers, I guess, and have
have been using that tactic 30years, and we're certified in
this, and you know, fifthgeneration, you know, with the
same, and it's like you seeFacebook ads, and we talk about

(21:53):
this a lot because we we do mostof our marketing in-house, and
it's like you see that sameroof, you see that same roof
being tore off, you see thatsame group of people up on the
roof, all wearing differentcolored shirts, and you know,
it's all the same.
So it for somebody in theroofing space, particularly,

(22:15):
like what would you say, whatwould you say we should focus on
the most?

Oh, I love this question just because I've
had experience working with acouple roofers in the local area
over the years.
And I I'm a little cynical init kind of makes sense.
Why is lead cost so high froman acquisition standpoint?
Because a not everybody, but alot of the guys, you know, in
central Pennsylvania, and a lotof it's you see more of it, I

(22:43):
feel like in Baltimore County,they lean into that 30 years,
staff certified.
To me, that's just that'sentry-level points.
And then going from a marketingadvertising angle, it's you're
running the same exactdollar-dollar promo,
essentially, other than maybe afive or ten dollar difference.

(23:05):
Like you're just giving me aprice tag on a roof replacement,
but the next guy's doing thesame thing.
What's the difference?
What's your uniquedifferentiator?
You know, I'm okay potentiallypaying more if you resonate more
with me in the messaging.
You know, what's your story?
Give me a brand video.
You know, if I'm getting firstserved an ad from you on

(23:25):
Facebook or Instagram orYouTube, tell me a little bit
more about the process and roofeating company ABC.
And then, you know, if I'minterested and I get reserved
another video where I went onyour website and necessarily
didn't get you didn't capture myinformation, okay.
Maybe serve another ad thatmaybe that's more sales process

(23:47):
focused.
Don't do that right off therim.
Like stand out.
Yeah.
And it could be, you know,something as reimagining
something traditional as theroof replacement or the roof
tune-up, but spin it your ownway.
Let's say you got a bangingsiding division, and you know

(24:09):
the other guys out there don't,just because you actually do all
this custom work, leverage thata little bit because that's a
positioning point in yourmarketplace.
It might not, you know, be allthe bread and butter when we
look at the margins, but thatmight get you in the door if
you're going for, you know, ahigher tier audience in certain
like more affluent, you know,neighborhoods or local areas

(24:29):
versus just casting a wide net.

Yeah.
Yeah.
No, we've been, we've done allthat, you know, and it seemed to
work for a little bit.
And you know, and the thing is,I guess everyone's trying to
figure out, and if they're nottrying to figure out, is how to
break through that noise becausethere's so much noise out
there.
And and how would you, what islike a couple, a couple tricks?
And it doesn't matter whatindustry, how do you break

(24:54):
through that noise?
How do you stand out?
Is it is it the the uh the waythat your ads look?
Is it pain points that you'retrying to because let's face it,
you only have 15 to 30 secondsto catch people's attention.

And boom, at least the gas through initially
and get them interested.

Yeah, right.
So, how do you break throughthat noise?
If you were starting a businesstoday, re redoing a business
now, what would you do to breakthrough that noise to make
yourself unique?

Okay, so well, let's I'll give a little
dichotomy, like really 30,000foot view.
So let's just say I'll I'll useHVAC to switch it up a little
bit.
Very similar home service kindof vertical.
So your ex-HVAC guy, you know,I'm starting off this company.

(25:43):
Really look around you from amarketing standpoint.
I mentioned earlier, marketingcommunity.
To me, the number one rule ofmarketing though is knowing your
market.
So if I'm ex HVAC company, I'mgonna I want to know how each of

(26:05):
my main direct localcompetition are positioning
themselves.
What kind of like deals arethen running right now for
eating this time of year?
What are they saying?
How consistent is it?
How inconsistent is it?
And look for a gap, look for anopportunity.

(26:25):
Are they doing video?
If not, that's a competitiveadvantage right there.
If they are, and you probablysee this all the time in the in
the on the roofing side, it'sthat style of video right now
where you got the roofer on theroof with the phone.
Hey, Jim, we just replace thisroof right now.

(26:49):
We can do the same deal for youfor X amount.
That's super trendy right now.
And a lot of the home guys whocheck this out are gonna know
that.
Certain trades, you don't seethat.
But it that's becoming a formatwhere I feel like audiences
they're getting used to it.
Okay, yeah, no, that'spotentially the roofer or said

(27:13):
roof owner or the public face ofthis roofing company and their
marketing material that they'reputting out.
Is it does it work?
Does it stand out?
You gotta look at, and it's ascience in a way, Ty, and for
folks listening out there, whereto really break through the
noise, it's understanding whatpeople are doing and not doing,

(27:35):
putting it as simple as that,and then testing.
There's been over the yearswhere we'll run, you know, five
different creatives and veryvarious variants for a home
service company.
And a lot of the time I'm like,this one's gonna stick, and it
sticks, but sometimes, man, youhave this general graphic that

(27:59):
would beat a video, and you'relike, okay, it's resonating,
it's working.
We're able to track lead flowdirectly from this compared to
some of the other ads, andthey're actually booking jobs
from it.
Keep running it.
So when something is working,when you are starting to break
through the noise, don't get toocute until it doesn't become
relevant anymore.
That's where I feel like otherfolks sometimes too.

(28:22):
It's something's working, andthen they want to play around
with it because they get bored,and it's objectively, it's ego,
it's like, ah man, like thatad's kind of old, we could do
something better.
Yeah, do something better andtest against it from a creative
standpoint or an ad copystandpoint.
But you know, but don'treinvent the wheel.

(28:43):
If it's still gonna work, keeprunning it.

Yeah, no, you know, and you said something key
there.
You got to test things and ittakes time, you know.
And a lot of people, it it'shard for them to stay consistent
and just keep throwing shit onthe wall.
Let's see what sticks.
Keep throwing shit, keepthrowing it, keep throwing stuff
and keep throwing stuff outthere, but also paying attention
to like what is working, youknow, because a lot of there's a

(29:09):
lot of uh a lot of moving partsthere.
I mean, it could be the time ofday that a video hit off well.
It could be the type, how longis it?
Um, what's what's stopping themfrom scrolling?
And I'm and I'm I I haveFacebook mostly in mind right
now when I speak.
Everybody is on Facebook,everybody.
Um mostly everybody is, youknow, and there's there's you

(29:30):
know, Instagram and then there'sTikToks making you know big,
big, huge splash nowadays, youknow, a lot of people on TikTok,
uh a lot of people that youwouldn't even think would be on
TikTok or on TikTok because itit's so user friendly.
Um, you know, but staying outin front of that stuff and and
getting and having the righttools and resources so you can
keep testing and keep throwingstuff at the wall and seeing

(29:51):
what sticks and uh and stufflike that.
So um I guess you know, shouldshould businesses get involved
like like their operations,their installs, their service
calls, and and and and use thatto to fuel their content?
Like should they should theybring that into their content?
Like should they be on a roofsaying, hey, we just installed

(30:12):
this, um, or should it just tryto cover endpoints?
You know what I mean?
Like um I can't afford it tooffer 18 month savings cash.
Or um what do you what do youthink the best approach is, you
know, because I I too havethrown a fishnet and just tried
thought everybody was my client,everybody was my customer, and

(30:35):
we're gonna throw out their adsfor roofing siding, windows,
gutters, and solar.
And what I noticed was it'slike it it really you only have
so many resources.
So by the time we throw out thethe five or six things that we
do it everything becomes watereddown.
Okay.
What I've noticed is if you cankind of just stick to and even
if it's if you change it upseasonally whatever do it a

(30:56):
whole quarter roofing for onewhole quarter and and find what
seasons are best for the roofingseason.
Find what season for the windowseason find what seasons are
best for the the gutter seasonand gutter guard season and
really just drive that in shit Ialmost forgot my question in
the beginning.
That's okay.
And again well I'm just tryingto throw some nuggets out there

(31:18):
too for for your guests toobecause you're you're more than
welcome you're sharing ourstage.

Yeah now I'm gonna be sending this to folks
in general where I might sendthis to a few guys I've been
talking to where they've been onthe fence I'm like pretty much
we're just giving a marketingtalk right now black time which
I think is really cool.

Yeah me too and we've been both have been doing
this for a long time you knowand and things change things
evolve and and it's it's it'scrazy to keep up with nowadays.
But let's let's talk about umAI how AI is is changing
everything and and how companiesshould be using it and use it

(31:58):
to improve you know theirmarketing in particular um
without losing I guess thathuman touch.

The touch yes it's it I glad you brought it up
I always hear about it it's notgoing away I tell folks it's
AI's another tool in themarketing sales toolbox it might
not necessarily be the end allbe all five ten years from now
in terms of how you grow yourbusiness depending on what your

(32:27):
business is who you are as abrand at its core but it's a
tool and you should know how touse it for for you and how to
best connect with folks it'sfunny you asked that in
particular though John mylong-term essentially business
partner been on almost everyproject for the the past six and

(32:47):
a half seven and a half yearsI've been doing this shout out
to him he sent a note last nightabout a client with their
Google My Business listing thisthe organic rankings they have a
great name in the area but theranked are a little lower
because they're not open 24hours time.
So he's like maybe nudge him alittle bit and potentially let's

(33:11):
recommend him a tool where hecan be open 24 hours at least
intake the calls in where he'llhave more of a fighting chance
on some organic leads andinterests for his Google My
Business listing rather thanbeing saying eight to five on
his listing where if someonewants something you know like a

(33:31):
junk removal company if someonewants a clean out and they're
pissed off at seven o'clock atnight and he you know he might
be busy with the kids and hisadmin might be tied up with
their personal life get the callin it shows that visibility and
that AI citizen can intake thatcall for him at this point.
So that's like anunconventional tool that those

(33:54):
are things we're activelyresearching as Ship Fabric
Consulting Group to help thesesmall business cats get a
competitive advantage not juston the marketing side of things.
When it comes to marketing I Ilike to say you you can use AI
for your content to some extentbut it's an 8020 principle.

(34:15):
You should not be mindlesslycreating oh give me some pain
point posts and I'm gonna throwthem out there on Facebook and
I'm not gonna edit them.
To me that's almost moredamaging from a branding
standpoint especially if youreally pride yourself on being a

(34:36):
homegrown local entity orwhatever if you're just a one
man crew with a helper or 1520guys you still got to be you at
the end of the day.
Like I mentioned AI is a tooluse your brain when you're using
it especially when it comes tolike content so if you are you

(34:57):
know it is a a tool in the sensewhere use it to generate ideas
in terms of hey what are somepain points for my you know
customers if I own a tree carebusiness.
Okay, let's do the pain pointslet's take it a step further Ty
and folks out there I'm gonnadump into this AI agent or

(35:22):
prompt all our previous orsamples of our ad copy and how
we speak here's a coupleFacebook post screenshots here's
the content on our website thatwe're really proud of because
it actually does sound like usbecause we invested time and
effort to make sure it doeshere's another note I'm gonna
upload a video I did me as theowner because I'm the primarily

(35:45):
you know sales specialist and wetrain our guys to like approach
folks like this I'm gonnaupload that into the agent
prompt.
So all of a sudden you uploadall these examples you spend
time and effort in that actuallysound like you your brand and
your business then AI agentprompt is going to sound a lot

(36:05):
closer to how you want to talkto your potential audience out
there versus then any treecompany or any old junk company
or roofing company out there.
That's when you using yourbrain and being strategic with
the tool versus just picking itup it's the real thing as if
you're climbing on a roof you'rejust not just gonna start

(36:27):
chipping away at it.
There's certain ways you'regonna tackle on how to replace
that roof and how to properlyprep it.
That's the same thing whenyou're using these new tools.
Yeah think about it like that.

Right.
Yeah no for sure and there's somany different ways you can use
it and and one is is you knowposting you know your your
content and what times a day andand I know a lot of companies
waste money on on boosting postwithout a strategy like you were
kind of talking about there andand and so what what are some
smarter ways to approach paidads?

Okay that's great.
So a big thing is you ideallyyou want to funnel someone where
they can give you theirinformation and you can intake
it in a proper fashion.
A big mistake I see and itusually it's a lot of guys where
they just have a call extensionon their ad.

(37:22):
But I know damn right well manthey don't have an out of
certain like office assistantthat's more traditional like you
know call center or they don'thave the AI assistant.
So if I click on their ad at835 at night they just you know
wasted a probably significantamount of like bucks right

(37:43):
there.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah.

So making sure the destination point is
somewhere where that informationcan be secured and you can
reach them in a timely fashion.
Direct them to the website ifyou have website you should have
a website is a sales tool.
I don't care if it's a one pagerule souped up or something you
know five, 10, 15, 20 pagesdepending on how much
information and considerationyou want to give a potential

(38:06):
customer or a client make sureyou have points that intake that
information in a timelyfashion.
So if let's say they are youknow window shopping or price
shopping or you know somethingmore cosmetic, a hardscaping
project at 10 o'clock at nightbecause Susie and Devin, that's
the only time they have reallyto look together to consider
quotes and options make sure ifyou have a contact form it says

(38:30):
we're going to reply back to youwithin 24 hours or during these
hours.
So that's the expectation ofwhen they can get back to you
where they don't get pissed offand don't consider you once you
don't get back.
Or if you are in a more highpressure environment where you
know it's roofing and you knowthere's a storm rolling through
and it is 10 o'clock at nightyou might have that call center

(38:52):
or AI assistant but make sureyou also have maybe that chat
bot feature that can intuitivelyfeed that information to the
right party so they can get teedup for service right there when
they immediately need itbecause that pain point's the
highest.

unknown (39:06):
Yeah.

Because at that point it's just you're
bleeding money man on the on adsit doesn't make sense if you
can't properly or purposefullypick up the phone.
At the end of the day it's I Irun into folks sometimes
problems in early engagementswhere a lot of time I first talk
to them Ty folks out there Iask more sales related questions

(39:30):
on their sales process and howthey intake and work with
customers and clients versuswhat they do for marketing and
have done for marketing.
Because if they can't pick upthe phone or call back why are
you potentially spend thousandsof dollars and invest that with
with a partner like us becauseit's at that point is you're
you're there's gonna be waste.

Yeah no such a great point you know to to
gather that data you know andand answer the phone you know
what I mean you you have to havesomebody that that is answering
the phone even and and I'm abig stickler on that too because
like you said most people areworking nine to five jobs they
go home they they got sportingevents they're they're the kid

(40:12):
they come home they eat dinnernext thing you know it's 8 39 10
o'clock at night and that'swhen they're scrolling or
searching you know uh whetherthey're using AI because you can
use AI as a search engine nowor or whatever whatever the case
might be um you you gotta havesomething in place a call center
put in place uh somebody and ifyou're if you're advertising on

(40:34):
your website 24-7 you betterhave somebody answering that
phone or getting right back tothem yeah in a timely fashion
there's an expectation of when Iwill get a reply for a next
chat exactly and and chatbotshuge especially a messenger have
somebody you know that issomebody or something that is
replying back that like you saidwill get back to you within two

(40:55):
hours or 24 hours um or achatbot that can actually have a
conversation with somebody youknow I mean and it's taking the
time and the place it takes ittakes time to set those things
up and put them in place but itit's it's worth it in the long
run like you had mentionedthey're they're spending a lot
of money with the marketingcompany they're spending a lot
of money on creating the contentthey're spending a lot of time

(41:19):
and and energy and if you'regonna go all in go all in but
but don't forget how you'recapturing the call how you're
capturing you know the the formsubmissions that are coming
through your website or orthrough social media and all
those things that's just asimportant it's almost like
that's the foundation like youalmost need to have that set up
first before you start throwingthe the fishing line out there.

(41:40):
You know what I mean like howam I going to be available to
answer the call or am I going tobe on a am I going to be on a
roof?
Am I gonna be on someone'skitchen sink, you know, turning
wrenches and I won't be able toanswer the phone anyhow.

Which is it's it's fine Ty if that's the case
let's say I'm a guy pre-revenuestarting off I maybe have one
crew I ask them who picks up thephone and they say me I'm like
let's have a conversation aboutthat before we even press play.
Absolutely I'm like here's theexpectation if we primarily push
ads to your phone and you don'tpick up right away the chance

(42:15):
of you being considered is goingto go down.
So we want to give them eithera the option where they can go
to the website and filleverything out or where
something can be captured ontheir own accord or two it's
just you gotta you know you gotto know there's the risk where
if you're on a roof and doingthis and not capturing every

(42:37):
every call we're gonna have aconversation down the road in
our first phase of ourengagement if you're like man
I'm not closing any businesswell we're able to track 30
calls from you know Google adsdata that we have set up at
analytics for you know 90% ofthem are 717 numbers where even
if our early campaign we'rereally hitting the marks we see

(43:00):
some high intention calls comingin you know a minute two
minutes four five 10 minuteswhat's up with all these calls
that weren't answered when I seethe 717 numbers did you call
them back and a lot of timesit's this accountability thing
with folks that I have it's likeuh nah I didn't get back to it
yet I'm like why not?
Especially if this is a goalfor you to grow your business

(43:24):
you know depending on what thatthose goals that may look like
for those folks.

Absolutely absolutely so what what um what
KPI should a business um youknow really be tracking and and
because I know it it's not justthe likes and the comments and
the impressions and stuff likethat.

So what KPIs should we be following if it's
truly growth growth from arevenue standpoint it's what's
my cost per lead and and that isa number in itself.
So it's figuring out what's thecost per call over X amount of
seconds how many calls are yougetting and then getting

(44:04):
qualitative feedback from thosefolks and yourself more
importantly internally okay ifI'm getting 20 calls over X
amount at at X amount durationat Y cost, how many of these are
my closing and then I have nowa tracker doing this for three
months is this scalable and ifthe front end lead cost is good

(44:30):
but the actual close cost interms of getting an estimate and
getting a job is bad it'slooking more internally at that
point.
Is it something with my salesprocess?
Is it something with mydelivery of that estimate to
close the door what what are theobjections if I'm not getting
that business at the end of theday when we start with folks Ty

(44:51):
and folks out there we focus onthat first initial lead cost.
What's your cost per call if weset up analytics properly
what's that cost per lead comingin your website or contact form
that's our baseline metricbecause until we get more in
depth with you in terms ofproviding some guidance on how
to improve your sales processand your operations that's stuff

(45:12):
we do really long term withfolks it's it's you as a
business center.
Because if you're taking thecalls and running the estimates
it's not our responsibility wecan get qualitative feedback
saying hey Paul this one's outof market okay that shouldn't
have happened let's put anegative zip code in so you
don't get that anymore.
You know we don't want to go inNew York City because you know

(45:33):
based on your business the leadswe're getting from a pay to ad
standpoint you know are lesserquality.
That's something we can controlon our end.
But the main KPI is your costper lead and it's really three
quadrants of that the marketingcost and initial acquisition
your estimate cost your quotecost and then your actual true

(45:56):
job cost factored in becausethat number is going to look
completely different from jobcost to lead cost.
But ideally over time when youmeasure the three as a business
owner you want to make sure it'svery sustainable for you and
scalable because like you mightbe really happy where you're at

(46:16):
with what you're doing from apaid standpoint and even an
organic standpoint it's trackingthat from a lead cost
standpoint.
So it's this what goes intoorganic it's a little more naive
a little more ambiguous butit's usually time and effort.
Yeah if you're a bigger youknow home service company maybe
five to 10 million a year andyou got a marketing coordinator

(46:37):
or manager on staff whatactivities are they doing you
know if they're not handling thepaid stuff from an organic
standpoint to generate orfurther generate organic
business for you.
And you need to evaluate thatin terms of their salary and in
terms of like their time andeffort.

Yeah no so so so much good stuff that you
reviewed there.
And the one thing that keptgoing through my head it's it's
a little bit overwhelmingbecause the second it's kind of
twofold here the second that youthink you have it figured out
there it's neither one of thosefacets are are static.
No it's never changing.
It's very fluid like what wasmaking the phone ring six months

(47:19):
ago may not make the phone ringtoday.

Especially in the trades.
Because you have the givenseasonality especially in the
Northeast market.
Yeah like we pinpoint it inmost trades where there's
different little pockets withroofing versus maybe your
traditional tree guys.
Yeah but I mean we kind of knowit as like the back of our hand
where January through Februaryis the lowest for most of the

(47:44):
folks in our our main book inthe trades.
Yeah.
So it's now it's just like ifwe're working with someone long
term how do they be proactiveand get ahead at the end of
summer in the fall with themarketing programs and
initiatives to putting out sowhat are we doing paid what are
you going to do or how can wehelp you on some of the stuff

(48:06):
where you know where let's getmore out of your current book so
you got an email list of pastcustomers what can we do to
nurture them to maybe set somestuff up over the winter or in
the early spring to kind of getyou through that lull yeah yeah
no it it it you you always gotto be thinking about it.

You know if you're if you're just now
thinking now's the time is theis the season where you should
be thinking about next year'smarketing.
You should have in placealready things in motion like
shit you should have had them inthe beginning of Q4 at the end
of Q3.
Correct and and I know it'shard I know I know it is and and
you know January will be herebefore we know it but you know

(48:46):
and I'm not saying January's toolate to start thinking about
this because you do have JanuaryFebruary March at least in our
in our seasonal um trade thatwe're in but I've I've sat here
in this office January 1st thatMonday morning was like dude I
didn't even think about what wewere going to do for 20 you know
whatever year that was that wasthe last time.

Because you're running and gunning and it's
just like I'm sure you probablysat where this kind of sucks
right now.
Yeah I wish I thought I had orthought a little differently
about this.

Of course because none of this stuff
happens overnight and it and youknow and what you're doing
eventually is you're you'recreating brand awareness you
know and and and I think that'swhat's helped us you know carry
through where a lot of otherpeople you know have been slower
we've we've remained steady oror busier than usual because of

(49:40):
our community involvement.
So what role does communityinvolvement play in brand
awareness and and how can howcan companies get it right so
it's not cheesy?

It's got to be them.
Because sometimes cheesy to onecompany is not going to be
cheesy to another company thatit's brand and audience guy.
And that's okay.
But you shouldn't be doingeverything that you know someone
else is doing necessarily makesure it's still you and it comes
back to like even networking inperson one-on-one be real I

(50:12):
think a great example in thelocal South Central market of a
home business is uh Jared PetroURLAX Moving he's got his shtick
he's got his skits but theywork for his brand personally in
you relax as a business whereit's fun family oriented they do
things throughout the year tosupport that mission and it's

(50:35):
consistent in their marketingand messaging.
But at the end of the day it'sa yeah we're gonna take care of
your family we're gonna have alittle fun doing it but we also
are experts and here's some ofthe technical stuff that we do.

If another moving company was trying to do
what you relax is doing with allthe skits in the same vein be
like wait aren't these otherguys doing it that's kind of a
little corny you know yeah nofor sure and it kind of comes
back to that example when youasked me about like roofing in

(51:07):
general you don't want to soundlike all the other roofers no
and no hard I mean becausethere's so much noise out there
and everybody's posting the sameshit the warranties and it's
family owned and operated andyou know this this is the people
people buy buy from fromcompanies um you know don't buy

(51:27):
from companies I should say thatyou know they they buy from the
brand that they recognize andthey trust um you know awareness
is the is the first step in inthe relationship so anybody
that's getting started in thislike what what is your brand
going to be what what is yourlast impression going to be you
know and if I had to do it allover again I would be super

(51:48):
intentional about that.
Like it took me a good four orfive years to figure out my why
like the company's why andcreate a culture and and we've
lived that for you know the past12, 15 years.
But it it unfortunately hadtaken me because we didn't have
social media back then.
We we really didn't we hadyellow book um yellow book
finally went digital and andstarted creating you know

(52:10):
websites and and things likethat.
So it was it was a lot of wordof mouth rap trucks yard times
door hangers and we still use alot of that traditional brand
awareness that that omnipresencebut what is your messaging now
that you have you know um youknow digital marketing and stuff
like that and it's so mucheasier now to reach but you got

(52:31):
to make sure it all matches toolike you can't have a color of
something on this and a color ofsomething and I'm not saying
pattern interrupt isn't good umover time but you you shouldn't
even be thinking about that yetuntil you know you're well
established.

You got to it's branding 101 and I've seen
it so much over my career andI've been very blessed to have a
couple mentors in the brandingspace where these guys are like
savants where they've done likeFortune 100 corporate branding
and be able to kind of early onin my career work under them

(53:07):
projects and kind of shadow themfor me to get more experience
just in how to run an agency andhow to interface with clients
and really the most importantthing brand good marketing can
only take branding so or so far.
If you don't know who you areand we're you're saying you're

(53:30):
the best HVAC guy but you alsooffer plumbing and electrical
you're gonna get lost in thesauce buddy look hone in on what
you do best.
I mentioned the example whereit's a little outside the box
but like if you're in a servingan affluent area and some people
are more intentional with theirsidings and windows lean on

(53:51):
that even if they're not yourmoneymaker that's roofing's
where you make your money makerwhen you go in out on the sales
side and have that conversationwith those folks that's where
we're gonna make the bread atthe end of the day and pay the
bills.
Yeah true because I've seenguys especially in the roofing
industry where they really don'thave a brand other than those

(54:12):
30 years gaff.
They don't know who they arethey think it's just just
because they can throw a roof onthey should be making money and
they do but if they really honein on self-reflecting and
honestly going thinkingobjectively if here's a couple
questions to consider for folksout there with brain I'll give

(54:34):
this nugget what would you wantone of your customers to say
about you what are those wordsand get that feedback if you can
because I'm sure one of yourgood customers would tell you
that and then talk to acolleague I call them a champion
or cheerleader or they referbusiness to you or willing to
refer business to you what wouldthey say about you and then if

(54:59):
those two things don't jive orthey sound different you have
some brand incongruency myfriend because that champion or
cheerleader even if they neverbought from you they should know
how you best serve customersand the same thing even with
some of your maybe your yourcore customers where you they
might have been like an indirectclient or customer where they

(55:21):
bought one of your ancillaryservices oh yeah they're pretty
good I mean I've heard him in myline of work where oh yeah
they're pretty good at websites.
What we really do is digitaltransformation grown you click
the close at the end of the daywe're more than just like a
website shop.
That was some brandingcongruency me starting off a

(55:44):
couple years ago were like man Ihad to look a little inward.
So it's making sure yourcustomer clients know what you
do best same as your yourreferral partners and other
people in your networkingcircle.
And I love how that tied rightback into our initial
conversation with networkingthere.

Yeah absolutely absolutely yeah it's humanizing
the brand you know it's it'sit's people trust people you
know people do business withpeople they know they like they
trust and and how do they do howdo you get them to do all those
things you know and it's it'sit's the companies that are you
know showing their team theirtheir culture their values and
and those are the companies thatare going to win today.

(56:24):
It truly is and if you can ifyou can wrap that up and tie a
night nice little neat bow on itand tie you know hit hit the
the the pain points and the callto action and it in 15 seconds
like you're gonna win thebattle.
And it's it's hard because welive in an Amazon world today
people don't want to watch a youknow a a 30 second I mean it's

(56:46):
tough to get them to watch awhole 30 second you know
anything over 30 seconds forgetabout it.
They're gonna keep scrollingand uh you know so that's that's
that's just kind of my my spinon it but it's like I said it it
there's ebbs and flows with itand it's very fluid.
It's nothing it's not static atall.
You know AI is changing andit's changing our our our

(57:10):
industry fast.
I mean we use it in just aboutevery facet from um we're we're
building out our own AI rightnow for our company you know
SOPs KPIs everything um you knowin and as far in terms of how
we're creating the content andwhen the content's being put out
and what platforms thecontent's being placed on at

(57:31):
what times a day and all thesethings that you know blog post
writing I mean AI can bust out500 in five minutes you know
blog post um out of uh paying anindividual you know to to write
five a day maybe you know backin not that long ago but but uh

(57:51):
you know get like you saidgetting back to the networking
thing you know marketing isn'tisn't just digital you know it's
it's uh you know in your eventprove that you know real people
connecting with with you know umreal people and and which
creates real momentum you knowthis I felt the momentum once we

(58:11):
left there so that was that wasgood and and uh is there we're
right we're getting ready tocome up on that hour mark and I
know you got a you got a hardhard stop here um is there
anything else that you want tothrow out there quick another
another little nugget biggestthing I can say is if you're not
if you're a business owner andyou're not happy or pleased with

(58:34):
where you're at now you need tothink about where you want to
be in 12 months.

I know a lot of guys out there even guys
you're bigger there's a lotgoing on in the economy in the
seasonality right now you mightbe thinking to get through the
winter give me the spring wheredo you want to be in 12 months
and look at it objectively whatyou're doing marketing
advertising and sales first andforemost and then the operations

(59:04):
are going to support a lot ofthe gaps that still might be
occurring in those three likebusiness quadrants marketing
advertising you can lump intoone but that's where I would
really stress is this is timefor reflection but action where
a lot of things you want to bedoing J J1 you should be doing

(59:25):
them before you put thoseChristmas presents under the
tree this year.
Get serious about who you wantto be and if you want to have a
conversation with me feel freeto reach out because at minimum
going to point you in the rightdirection.

No doubt no doubt great great great advice
man you know Paul always apleasure having you on the show
man you you're one of those guyswho truly understand you know
not just the tactics tacticsbehind marketing but the heart
that goes the heart behind ityou know with with connecting
people building trust and knowelevating the brand the the the

(01:00:02):
right way and and for for anyonelistening if you want to get
sharper on your marketing or orjust want to understand how to
get your message you know outthere more clearly um definitely
reach out to Paul you know paulpaul's an OG in our local area
and and he knows everybody whichis a good start right there and

(01:00:23):
if he if he doesn't have thetools he knows somebody that's
got the tools um you know andand thanks for for tuning in
everybody to this episode ofBehind the Toolbout and and make
sure that that you like lovesubscribe share this out um and
leave us a review and and uhPaul we'll put your uh we'll put
your website in the in ourcomments that way if anybody
wants to reach out to you thatthat might listen to this um

(01:00:45):
later they'll they'll be able touh hook you up and sound good
them up I appreciate it brotherit was great running to you last
week and this was been fun yeahfor sure man I hope I hope to
stay in touch oh we will we'llbe intentional about it yes for
sure all right till next weekeverybody stay dry out there

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