September 26, 2025 • 32 mins
Dr. Ralph Ford, chancellor of Penn State Behrend, talks with Dr. Christopher Harben, the Toudy Chair of Entrepreneurship and Family Business, about the Center for Family Business and the annual Family Business Conference. Originally recorded on September 15, 2025.
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Ralph Ford (00:00):
Hello, I'm Dr.
Ralph Ford, Chancellor of PennState Behrend, and you are
listening to Behrend Talks.
My guest today is somebodywe've had here before, Dr.
Christopher Chris Harben, the2D chair of Entrepreneurship and
Family Business in the BlackSchool of Business.
He also is the uh director, theacademic director of the Center
(00:20):
for Family Business, which isrun by the Black School of
Business.
Welcome back here, Chris.
Christopher Harben (00:26):
Thanks, Dr.
Ford.
How are you?
Ralph Ford (00:28):
I'm doing well.
And uh it's good to have youhere.
I'm gonna, you know, I alwaysdo this.
This is part of the show as Irun through people's background.
I feel it's important, youknow.
You've got a Doctor ofStrategic Leadership from Regent
University, an MBA with dualconcentrations in organizational
leadership and internationalbusiness from the University of
Findlay.
(00:48):
And uh earned a bachelor's inmedia communication from the
University of Akron.
And this interested me a lot,actually.
The certificate in emotionallyintelligent leadership from Case
Western.
Christopher Harben (01:02):
That was a lot of fun.
In fact, I got to meet my myjoke with my wife, I say it was
my academic man crush, Dr.
Richard Boyatzis, who is a uhone of the preeminent thought
leaders on emotionalintelligence, him and uh another
professor from Harvard.
When I did my doctoral studies,Boyatzis wrote a lot of the
stuff.
And he teaches at Case, so Igot to be involved in that
(01:23):
program.
It was a lot of fun.
Ralph Ford (01:25):
Do you consider yourself an emotionally
intelligent leader?
Christopher Harben (01:28):
Over years of practice, yes.
That doesn't mean that I'mperfect, and I think that's one
of the tenets of emotionalintelligence is you know what
you do well and what you don'tdo well, and you try to avoid
those things you don't do well.
Ralph Ford (01:39):
I mean, there's a ton of evidence that you can be
as bright as you can, but if youdon't have emotionally
intelligent leaders are the oneswho end up at the top.
Is that fair assessment?
Christopher Harben (01:48):
I think that's fair.
In fact, some of the researchthat I'm planning right now
relative to family businesses isreally reacting to the needs
for up-and-coming leaders andhow we can create a tool to help
establish leadership and familybusinesses kind of pick out who
are the best suited people inthe organization to be the next
gen.
Ralph Ford (02:07):
Yeah, because there's a lot of emotion.
We're gonna get into all ofthis today, but there's a lot of
emotion around family-runbusinesses, I'm sure.
Christopher Harben (02:13):
Yes, I think I I often joke that the problem
with family business is not thebusiness.
Ralph Ford (02:18):
That's right, it's the people, right?
Right.
It's always the people.
It's the family.
Well, you know, a little bitmore, your research focuses on
small business strategy,organizational leadership, and
uh family business continuation.
So, well, let's uh you know,let's jump right in.
Uh I always love to start outwith this question what's the
pathway to Penn State Behrend?
How did you end up here?
Christopher Harben (02:40):
That was really interesting.
I was teaching in a programvery similar to what I'm
teaching here, and they, as whathappens in higher ed, um they
made some decisions aboutcutting the program, and I
needed to do a search.
So I was four hours away andwas very fortunate to fit in
here.
Um, you know, the transitionwas nice because I went from a
(03:01):
D1 school to this school, butthat was not a large D1 school.
I preferred the small campusenvironment.
I prefer being able to walkaround campus and knowing
students by name, by face, byseeing them.
So the path was, you know,fairly, fairly traditional in
that I I had a need, and it justwas fortuitous that the need
(03:21):
was met here.
So I consider myself verylucky, and I'm not saying that
because I'm here with you.
I've been talking about this.
This is now my ninth year here.
Um I I like to say that we arethe better Penn State campus.
Ralph Ford (03:34):
Well, I think we've got a lot to offer.
It's a really specialenvironment, and I think you
just encapsulated a whole lot ofthat.
Well, let's talk about uh, youknow, your role as the academic
director of the Center forFamily Business.
This business was this center,excuse me, was launched in 2021.
You know, just walk us throughthis.
(03:55):
What does the center do?
What's your role there?
You know, give us thebackground.
Christopher Harben (03:59):
I think it's important to talk about the
genesis of the idea.
So we had some key people, GregFilbeck and Tom Hoffman,
looking around the region andsaying, we're noticing that
there are businesses,particularly family businesses,
that are getting to a pointwhere they can't sustain
themselves from one generationto the next.
And a lot of times they werebeing sold.
And the people buying them hadno real interest in keeping them
(04:21):
in northwest Pennsylvania.
So we started this reallythinking this is a way that we
can help strengthen familybusinesses so that they can
stay.
It's an economic argument,really.
We want to try to see how do wekeep as many of these
businesses running strong innorthwest Pennsylvania.
And then we looked around andsaid there really isn't anything
like this.
There was a information desertanywhere from Cleveland to
(04:44):
Buffalo to Pittsburgh, therewasn't anything like this.
Now, since then, there there isone in Cleveland, but they
operate a lot different than us.
And there are there are familybusiness centers across the
country, but there wasn'tanything nearby.
So our focus was really todevelop a center where we are
providing information, providingnetworking, providing family
(05:05):
businesses the opportunity towork with each other so they
realize they're not bythemselves.
A lot of times when you talk toa family business, they will
say things that indicate thatthey believe they're very
different than every otherfamily business.
But when they really talk toanother person, they realize oh,
you have the same knuckleheaduncle that I do.
Oh, we have the same struggleas as you.
(05:26):
And this has come up every timewe put on a program, every time
we bring in a speaker, peoplefeel this initial connection,
feel energized, feel likethey're a lot more likely to be
successful because they don'tfeel like they're on that island
anymore.
Ralph Ford (05:44):
A lot of it, I think I've been to a number of your
programs.
And by the way, they're alwaysinspiring, and you're right,
they're some of the same themes.
I can't say I've been to themall.
But one that always strikes meis you've got this question
about what role should thedifferent family members have
here?
And that's often a struggle.
Someone's got to perhaps be thechief executive, the CFO.
How do you walk people throughthose really difficult
(06:06):
conversations and help them makerational decisions, emotionally
intelligent decisions?
Christopher Harben (06:11):
I think that's one of the reasons I got
that certificate, is becausewhen you think about the family
business operating model, it isnot unlike any other business,
except it has the family dynamicwrapped around it, so that
complicates things.
You know, I was reading againthe biography of one of our
speakers at the upcomingconference, and she was saying
she had no interest in beinginvolved in the family business,
(06:32):
but she was involved because itwas dinner time conversation
all her life.
So that's one of the challengesis how do you balance the life
of the family versus the life ofthe business and can you
separate them?
And sometimes that causesschisms that causes the future
generations to not even want tobe involved.
(06:53):
It is not really a uniqueproblem to just family
businesses, too.
I want to make this clear, youknow, if if you are a regular
business, you would benefit froma lot of the stuff we do at the
Center for Family Businessbecause a lot of small
businesses go through that.
Someone starts a smallbusiness, they get it to a
particular level where theirskill sets are no longer helping
feed growth.
(07:14):
And now you have to getemotionally intelligent enough
to recognize I need to addsomeone else with different sets
of skill sets, and that's atough thing to do sometimes.
So that's why you'll see a lotof entrepreneurs fail.
They'll get to a certain level,they force themselves to stick
to it because gosh darn it,they've got it this far.
And I'll get it further, butthey don't have the skills.
Ralph Ford (07:38):
How do you like you know, so you've got, let's, you
know, the in your visual there,the family sitting around the
dinner table.
But how do you bring anexternal obviously Center for
Family Business is one external,but do they ever you encourage
them to create boards ofdirectors or advisory boards?
I mean, what are the mechanismsyou get them to see this?
Christopher Harben (07:57):
One of the ways is we do it incrementally,
first of all, in a verynon-threatening way, if we can
encourage people to just comeand network with other family
businesses, that opens the door.
Then we would say get involvedin peer groups.
So we sponsor peer groupsthrough the center where you
have members of familybusinesses getting together
every month where it's veryinformal, not non-threatening,
(08:18):
very private.
We like to say what happens inpeer group stays in peer group
because uh people want to beable to feel comfortable.
It gets very intimate and itbecomes sort of this de facto uh
board.
I remember sitting in on onewhere the group was starting to
talk about a subject they hadplanned on talking about, and a
member came in a few minuteslater and says, I don't know
(08:38):
what anyone's talking about, butI need to talk about this.
And he was struggling withwhether to fire someone.
And the group just pivoted andsupported him.
Those kind of things set thestage for helping people have an
open mind to having outsideinfluence, outside advisory.
The next step is an advisoryboard where it is purely just
(09:00):
advisory that has no power.
You can't hire and fireanybody.
But typically we recommend thatthose advisors come from a
variety of different walks oflife, different industries.
You don't want to create anecho chamber where if you're in
manufacturing, you're in a peergroup with all manufacturers.
There's a benefit to hearingpeople from the service industry
(09:22):
from other places.
And then the ultimate level isthe fiduciary board, where you
actually have a board in placethat can help steer the company
through rough times.
I can't underscore this enoughbecause it is a struggle
sometimes for a business,particularly a family business,
when they've built it up throughthe family and they have to get
(09:42):
to the point where they'rethinking about this, it's really
tough to have the thought ofgiving up some control.
So that might be the initialthing.
If I have a board, then I nolonger have a hundred percent.
Speaker 00 (09:53):
That's correct.
Christopher Harben (09:55):
But what they have to think about is
where the board becomesparticularly useful is in the
notion of succession planning.
What happens if the patriarchor matriarch is running the
company and they have a medicalissue, which has happened, I
mean, more people than you wouldthink that I talked to, that
has been the trigger for thetransition.
Dad died, mom got sick, Iwasn't planning on being in the
(10:18):
business, but now I have to be.
Had there been a board inplace, it smooths that
transition out.
It takes a lot of pressure offthe people that own the
business.
And I think that's an importantpoint, too.
Family businesses have to kindof think, you know, bilaterally.
I'm an owner and I'm and I'm anoperator.
You don't have to be both forit to be a family business.
(10:39):
And I think more and morefamily businesses are
recognizing I don't have theskill sets to be an operator.
I am an owner.
I want to maintain theownership for family legacy for
that asset.
I'll bring in outside places,and that's where a board helps a
lot.
Ralph Ford (10:54):
Someone else to operate it.
What happens in the case, let'ssay you've got a family, but
there's no there's no apparentsuccession plan.
And they they don't want tosell the private equity, but
they need to sell it tosomebody.
Is there some in-between there?
Are there way creative ways youcan work this out with
companies?
Christopher Harben (11:12):
That's a great question.
So we have one of our originalmembers, a company called Onex
here in town.
Ralph Ford (11:18):
Oh, yeah, know them well.
Christopher Harben (11:19):
Ashley Hoyer was one of the CEO at the time.
They transitioned from a familybusiness to an eSOP.
Now, an eSOP is a veryinteresting option that uh it is
somewhere in between selling.
Uh, and in fact, one of ourspeakers at the upcoming
conference is really going to betalking about this because they
transitioned from a familybusiness to an eSop.
And I'm not an eSop expert.
(11:39):
I will bring in experts, but Iwon't even pretend to be one.
But this is one of the wayswhere you can gradually
transition from the familyowning it.
So there could be some revenuegenerated for the family as
they're stepping out.
They have professionalmanagement that comes in and
starts running the company, itstays in the area, it largely
maintains the culture that'sestablished because the
(12:01):
employees are still there.
The employees now are owners,so they have a higher level of
engagement, higher level of youknow, respect for the company
because it's their company now,and it is something to at least
consider.
It's a you know, it's it's notsimple.
It's one of those things whereyou would definitely want to
have an advisor, and there areprofessional advisors out there
(12:21):
to walk that through.
But I've always suggested it assomething that people should
consider.
One of the problems that familybusinesses have is when the
current leaders want to get out,how do they generate any
revenue to live the lifestylethey've been used to?
Because if I'm acting as CEO,I'm paying myself a salary.
But if I'm no longer the CEOand I'm not getting a salary,
(12:44):
where's the money coming from?
And if I sell it to my kids, dothey have the financial
resources to be able to provideme a salary for not doing
anything while I'm retired?
It gets a lot more complicated.
And this is the this is the keyto why we started the center.
To go back to your firstquestion, if I summed it up into
one thing, we want to causefamily businesses to have
(13:07):
questions and conversationsbefore they need to.
You know, too often you see afamily business get to a trigger
point, dad or mom gets sick,um, there is uh some sort of
economic catastrophe orsomething like this where they
have to do something, andthey've never thought about it
before that point.
I'd much rather think about itbefore and never need it than to
(13:28):
have to think about it themoment it's happening.
Ralph Ford (13:30):
And the reality is someday something's going to
happen.
So it's going to happen one wayor another.
That's the reality.
Christopher Harben (13:36):
One of the CEOs uh that is speaking at our
conference, she made thiscomment to me.
She goes, I never paidattention to the family business
because dad was going to liveforever.
Ralph Ford (13:45):
That's right.
Doesn't work that way.
No.
You only think that's the case.
Well, and the other thing aboutthe power of what you're doing
is you've got a lot of peopleinvolved in the community, so
they can reach out to get a lotof advice from experts in the
community as well.
Christopher Harben (13:59):
We have those expert relationships
either via sponsorrelationships, so formal
sponsors of the center, or wejust know people.
And that's that's what we tryto do.
We're not a consulting agency.
We don't provide directconsulting ourselves.
My role as the academicdirector is to leverage Penn
State's resources as best I can.
Our director, Jake Jones, hisjob is to be out there in the
(14:22):
community developing newcommunity relationships.
We're we're the conduit for alot of the stuff out there.
As I mentioned before, we werein an information desert, at
least relative to familybusinesses.
There's always been a lot ofresources out there, whether
it's all the universities in thearea, we're very fortunate to
have a lot of universities inthe area.
The innovation beehive is thisreally underrated asset for the
(14:46):
community that more businessesneed to take advantage of.
And we're trying to connectpeople to those things.
So we look at ourselves as thatconduit as a connector.
Ralph Ford (14:54):
Now your background is in strategy.
You're an expert there.
So how does that play in?
Do you give a lot of strategicadvice?
You you know, you focus onstrategic planning.
How's that factor in?
Christopher Harben (15:03):
Well, the way I simplify it is strategy is
about playing the game with apurpose, right?
You can go out there as a kidand go out to an empty field
with a ball and just throw aball around.
But once you have a purpose,then there's a method to doing
that.
And I can help businesses.
We put on strategic planningworkshops to help businesses
think about the first steps.
(15:24):
One of the things that I Inotice with strategy clients and
even some of our members isthat when they are thinking
about strategy, they're thinkingabout the tasks to do.
What do I need to do?
Do I need to introduce a newproduct?
Do I need to go to a newmarket?
Do I need to expand myofferings?
Do I go to a new location?
(15:46):
And what I help them understandis we might have to go back a
few steps.
Do you have established values?
What's your vision?
What's your mission?
And a lot of those things havebecome checkboxes over the
years.
But when we work with people,we help them understand that
those are foundational.
And without those, that task isgoing to be maybe worth it,
(16:08):
maybe it will work.
You could get lucky, but ourbusinesses don't have the margin
for error just to try to getlucky.
Strategy is about takingcalculated risks and putting
your best resources forward.
Ralph Ford (16:22):
Adapting is necessary.
So you mentioned earlier JacobJones, Jake Jones, he's
relatively new, so you have aco-director model.
Tell us a bit about him.
I know he couldn't join us heretoday, and uh how's that work
between the two of you workingtogether in this?
Christopher Harben (16:37):
So originally we didn't have any
directors when we started, so Iwas kind of managing all the
roles, but when we brought Jakeon, he and I work together, both
reporting to the director ofthe school business.
So we have distinct roles.
Co-directors, but really he'sthe director, I'm the academic
director.
So, you know, Jake will be outthere dealing with fundraising.
(16:59):
He runs the day-to-dayoperations, he interacts with
the board mostly.
We share the role of putting onprogramming, although I'll say
Jake has done an outstandingjob.
You know, we went from havingprogramming, our goal of having
programming once a month, nowthat Jake's been on, we have
more than one program a month atleast.
(17:20):
Plus, he's he's activelyengaged in the community, doing
podcasts, you know, with ourmembers, with community leaders.
Great.
Uh video podcasts.
It's just been, we went from anactivity level, you know, at a
50% activity level to an 80%activity level relative to this.
And it's still really just thetwo of us running the center.
Ralph Ford (17:39):
Well, Tell you, one of the things that you know has
really very pleasantly surprisedme.
I mean, I've been involved inthe discussion since this was
created, is the number ofcompanies and the number of
people that have beeninterested.
It's just been astounding,actually.
Christopher Harben (17:52):
Yeah, I think in especially when you
compare us to other suchcenters.
So when we started this, youknow, Dr.
Filbeck was involved in thecenter at the University of
Toledo, and a lot of this wasmodeled after the University of
Toledo.
They have been in existence for28 years, maybe even more than
that.
And they have 200 and somemembers.
(18:13):
We've been in existence forfive years, and we've got 80.
Wow.
So our trajectory was reallyquick, very fast, and I think
that's a testament to the factthat there was a need that was
being unmet in the marketplace.
And I think it's also atestament to the stakeholders
that we were able to developrelationships with outside, and
we've had a very strong board,too.
So we have some very key peopleon the board that have been
(18:36):
very instrumental.
Uh, Bill Lillis is the chairmanof our board.
Philip Katen has been on theboard for you know since the
beginning.
We have several people likethat that have been around since
the beginning.
They give us a lot of goodadvice.
But again, it goes back to uhthere was a significant need.
Another story I will tell youis that I went to a family
business conference inSacramento that was put on by a
(18:58):
regional Center for FamilyBusiness out there.
They had 75 members, and theyput on a two-day conference, and
you know they had been inexistence for over 20 years as
well.
So for us to do this, we're notthe size of Sacramento.
You know, we don't have thatkind of capital region.
That that's the capital regionof California that they call
(19:20):
that.
We don't have that, but we'restill getting that number of
membership.
Ralph Ford (19:24):
Well, can you, without naming names, can you
confidently say that uh you knowthere are businesses that are
in existence today that mightnot have been if the if the
center didn't exist, or is itquite that black and white?
Christopher Harben (19:37):
I don't know.
I don't think I don't think wehave had any businesses that
have joined that were in perilthat were like that.
Um but I think it's safe to saythat because of some of the
programming we have, we havebusinesses that are better
positioned to have greaterlongevity than they would have.
Again, we go back to the mantraof our center.
Ralph Ford (19:57):
Fair enough.
Christopher Harben (19:58):
Force you to ask those questions before you
have to.
Ralph Ford (20:00):
Now we're an academic institution, obviously.
We've got a lot of faculty andstudents.
Are there faculty involved?
Are are students involved inthe center?
Christopher Harben (20:08):
We are more transitioning into that.
That is really my role.
And because until we broughtJake on, I didn't have as much
time as I would like to havedone that.
But Jake's been here now ayear, and this is transitioning.
The conference we have comingup, since it's in October, we
have a lot of students involved,we have a lot of faculty
involved as participants.
I think this is going to be agood opportunity for them to
(20:30):
experience what the center is.
Now we do have studentsinvolved with members.
So in my strategy class, Ibring in companies each semester
where students work on a what Icall a live case project.
They take on a company as aclient.
All those companies for thelast two years have been members
of the Center for FamilyBusiness.
So these students are gettingexposed to family businesses
(20:53):
that way.
Um we have faculty that put onprograms for through the center.
So I'm reaching out andutilizing those resources within
Penn State Behrend's world tohelp, you know, connect with our
members.
Ralph Ford (21:07):
Well, you have referred several times to the
annual conference.
It's coming up here soon.
And uh, why don't you tell usabout uh the annual conference,
October 8th and 9th, I believe,is coming up.
Christopher Harben (21:18):
Right.
The 8th, we kick it off with asocial event here on campus at
the Metzger Alumni Center.
This is a social event thatgives people an opportunity to
meet speakers and network.
But the big event is October9th at the Bayfront.
We have four keynote speakersthroughout the day.
It is an outstandingopportunity for people to meet
and interact with CEOs ofwell-known companies that have
(21:41):
gone through some form ofsuccession.
The theme this year is thesuccession.
It's a little bittongue-in-cheek because it's the
second year, so it's succeedingour first year.
But each of these speakers havehad some particular expertise
and a different experience withsuccession.
The first one's Gutman Energy.
So Joe Luco is a former CFO ofGiant Eagle, and he went to
(22:05):
Gutman Energy as a CFO there,and now he's the CEO, and he led
the transition for GutmanHoldings to become an eSOP from
a more than 90-year-old familybusiness.
He's got a lot of reallygranular experience with if
you're thinking of this option,here's some things you should
think about.
Here's some things we wentthrough.
His keynote by itself would bevaluable because if anyone's
(22:29):
thinking about what do I dosometime in the future, and they
want to understand maybe eSOPis one of those considerations,
this would be a great one.
Our second keynote is a PennState grad.
Uh, his name is Bradley Frank.
He's really a triple threat.
He's an accountant, he's a CPA,he's an entrepreneur.
He wrote a best-selling bookcalled The Succession Solution.
(22:50):
It's a guide for businessesgoing through succession.
He now advises companies onsuccession planning.
He's another, it's a great kindof non-threatening way to
listen to an expert provideadvice without having to hire
them.
And the thing we look at withhaving Brad here is that Brad's
talk will actually make ourmembers better clients for the
(23:13):
local advisors that exist.
So if you have an accountantrelationship, you have an
attorney relationship, listeningto Brad is going to help you be
a better client for thosepeople.
And the first hundred peoplethat register, and we're getting
close, first hundred peoplethat register get a copy of his
book.
The third keynote speaker I'mexcited about.
I've known Sherry for years.
(23:34):
Um Sherry runs, SherryBrumbaugh runs an Ohio-based
trucking company called GarnerTrucking.
If anyone's been on Route 90,they've seen the trucks.
They're black trucks with bigred letters, says Garner.
This is a regional butnationally known trucking
company.
They constantly are beingawarded, uh, I think they're in
the Hall of Fame for best fleetsto drive for, which means you
(23:58):
have to win that award 10 yearsin a row to become a Hall of
Famer, and they've been in aHall of Fame three years now.
So it's an outstanding story.
And she started off as a musicteacher.
She was a band director, andshe was the one sitting around
the family table saying, have nointerest in being in dad's
business, dad's gonna liveforever.
And then her dad got sick, andher mom said, You know, Sherry,
(24:19):
I think you can do this, andshe's transitioning in that
role.
Second generation CEO in abusiness that's primarily male.
So she's got a great, greatstory to tell.
And then finally, and I justrealized this the other day,
this has a Pennsylvaniaconnection, even though it's an
Ohio company.
If anyone's familiar withNortheast Ohio Cleveland area,
they're familiar with Malley'sChocolates.
(24:40):
Well, I didn't realize thatMalley's Chocolates got it
traced its roots to Meadville.
Because the original MikeMalley worked at a chocolate
store in Meadville before heended up growing up and moved to
Lakewood, Ohio, bought a storefor $500, rented a store for
$500, and started what's nowMalley's Chocolates with over 18
stores at a 60,000 square footfacility right by the airport.
(25:04):
So he and he's the thirdgeneration chocolatier.
He's a former CEO.
They just transitioned awayfrom having a family member CEO.
They have a non-family memberCEO.
And he will talk about theirplans for the future as well as
with regard to succession.
Ralph Ford (25:18):
It's a great lineup of speakers.
So if people are interested,how do they find out more?
Christopher Harben (25:22):
The easiest way, you go to our website,
family business, all one word,familybusiness.psu.edu, or they
can email me directly, CLH612 atpsu.edu. G
Ralph Ford (25:36):
And uh, you know, before we finish up, we're
getting close here.
I want to talk a bit about AI.
We hear about it all the time,and you know, if properly used,
as we said earlier before westarted this discussion, it can
be a real force multiplier.
Are small small businessesasking about this?
Are you involved?
Tell us about this.
Christopher Harben (25:55):
I'm not directly involved other than in
my own world.
I'm starting to incorporate ita lot more.
I would consider myself a lateadopter to it.
I was suspicious of it atfirst, but now I'm starting to
realize just the amount ofefficiency it can create.
And it's been something that'sbeen a topic on the minds of our
members.
So a couple months ago, we hada great AI presentation by one
(26:17):
of our faculty here, two of ourmembers.
It's we brought in uh communityexperts, created this great
discussion because I think ithas more impact to small
businesses than small businessesrealize.
I think right now there's a lotof perspective out there that
this is what the big companiesare doing.
They're going to institute itinto their call centers, they're
going to do in quoting systems.
(26:37):
But I was talking to a smallbusiness the other day where she
is a one or two, three peoplein her office, and she's looking
at it.
Can it help me with marketing?
You know, you can create AIchatbots on the website, and she
can get quotes from that, itcan take that data and start
creating media marketingcampaigns.
(26:58):
So I think right now, more andmore of our members, because we
don't have huge business sizemembers, we are really the small
to middle size uh center, and Ithink there's a lot of
opportunity there.
Ralph Ford (27:10):
So much.
And I you know, another area tothink about is it's a strategic
thought partner, right?
You you're the strategicleader, but it can challenge,
you know, you can have itexamine your strategic plan.
It can ask you really criticalquestions.
There's so much that it's it'smore than asking it to help you
write uh a document and anemail, but really, you know,
have it challenge your thinking.
Christopher Harben (27:31):
So in my strategy class, that's one of
the things I'm having studentsdo.
They're doing uh a caseassessment as is typical at this
level, and I'm having them useAI to vet their recommendations,
to kind of not you're not usingit to write the case, you're
having AI to check your work orsay, hey, have you thought about
this?
Here's another thing that'sworked.
(27:53):
Even in the book I'm writing onstrategy, I'm putting uh a
section in there where saying,okay, if you go through this
section, use AI to check yourwork.
Part of the thing is, you know,if we think about it outside
the of academia, businessesdon't have a whole lot of time
to devote to this.
This is one of the reasons thatthey don't put as much effort
into strategic planning as theyshould.
(28:14):
But if they can utilize AI,they make the work they're
putting in a lot more efficient.
Ralph Ford (28:20):
Yeah, it's it can really make a lot of difference
if you use it uh veryeffectively and strategically.
Well, let me switch to uh youmentioned your class, so that
makes me think.
Tell us a little bit about yourteaching.
What's your philosophy ofteaching?
What do you like to do in theclassroom?
Christopher Harben (28:36):
So I like to believe I was hired here just
because I am an applicationsexpert.
So I am not someone thatproduces a lot of research, but
what I do is I take the researchthat's out there and help
students apply it to real worldsituations.
My my thinking is in, you know,in the academic world, it's a
balance between creating newknowledge and then applying that
(28:56):
knowledge.
I'm the application guy.
So when you come into myclassroom, we're gonna do some
typical academic things, caseanalysis, but that case analysis
leads to real-world currentlevel discussions.
I'm talking about clients thatI have, I'm talking about
members of our center, I'mcomparing it to current business
issues, whether it's the tariffissues, whether it's you know,
(29:18):
strategy relative to AI, howdoes this affect strategy?
And then getting other actualbusinesses involved, students
really, really love being ableto work with a living, breathing
business.
You know, it's a lot differentthan the theoretical.
So mine is less on thetheoretical, more on the
practical.
Mine is the capstone class.
(29:38):
It's one of the last thingsthey do before they graduate.
So my philosophy to them is myjob is to help you differentiate
yourself from all the otherstudents out there.
As business students, they'renot rare, they're not unique.
You can fall out of a buildingon Peach Street and you're gonna
hit three other business majorson the way down.
So, what sets you apart?
And I believe with my Teachingis what sets my students apart
(30:03):
is they've been there, done thatmore than others have because
of the way we run this class.
Ralph Ford (30:07):
Well, I think it's the whole idea behind our open
lab philosophy here.
And uh I'll just say right on,I'm I'm with you, and in fact,
I'm teaching a capstone classthis semester with student
projects.
And what we hear across theboard is that capstone
experience is so important intheir future career.
Well, let's uh let's uh switchto your long-term vision for the
(30:28):
Center for Family Business.
What would you like to see itlook like five, ten years from
now?
Christopher Harben (30:32):
Well, that's that's fascinating because
we're just having thesediscussions because frankly,
when you're a growingorganization, it's sometimes
hard to be looking 10 years downthe road, five years down the
road because you're focused ongetting the growth now.
We are finally at critical massnow where we're refining what
we're doing.
We're refining, we have someprogramming that's always
(30:53):
happening every year.
We plan to have the conferenceevery year.
We have a leadershipdevelopment program, two
versions of that every year.
We have a succession planningworkshop every year, and we do a
half-day event in May everyyear.
So those are sort of ourfoundational programs, and this
allows us to build around that.
I think what we're lookingultimately is to be so
(31:14):
influential and so um well donethat this spreads across other
campuses, starting to interactmore with other Penn State
campuses, starting to be aresource for other Penn State
campuses, using those resourcesfor the benefit of our members.
There isn't another one likethis in the Penn State system.
No, there isn't.
So they're watching us just asmuch as as anything.
(31:35):
Um, and I think we've beenwe've been living up to a lot of
the expectations, but I thinkthat's the long-term vision.
It becomes more integral to theentire Commonwealth campus
system rather than just residinghere and only focusing on
Behrend.
Ralph Ford (31:48):
Well, that's a great vision, and this has been a
wonderful conversation.
Have learned a lot.
I know that uh our listenersare going to get a lot out of
this one.
Uh Chris, uh, this has beengreat.
I've been today's discussionhas been with uh Dr.
Chris Harben, who is the uhacademic director of the Center
for Family Business here at PennState Behrend.
(32:08):
Fascinating conversation.
Thank you for being here today.
Christopher Harben (32:10):
Thank you, Ralph.
Ralph Ford (32:11):
Take care.
Hello, I'm Dr.
Ralph Ford, Chancellor of PennState Behrend, and you are
listening to Behrend Talks.
My guest today is somebodywe've had here before, Dr.
Christopher Chris Harben, the2D chair of Entrepreneurship and
Family Business in the BlackSchool of Business.
He also is the uh director, theacademic director of the Center
(00:20):
for Family Business, which isrun by the Black School of
Business.
Welcome back here, Chris.
Christopher Harben (00:26):
Thanks, Dr.
Ford.
How are you?
Ralph Ford (00:28):
I'm doing well.
And uh it's good to have youhere.
I'm gonna, you know, I alwaysdo this.
This is part of the show as Irun through people's background.
I feel it's important, youknow.
You've got a Doctor ofStrategic Leadership from Regent
University, an MBA with dualconcentrations in organizational
leadership and internationalbusiness from the University of
Findlay.
(00:48):
And uh earned a bachelor's inmedia communication from the
University of Akron.
And this interested me a lot,actually.
The certificate in emotionallyintelligent leadership from Case
Western.
Christopher Harben (01:02):
That was a lot of fun.
In fact, I got to meet my myjoke with my wife, I say it was
my academic man crush, Dr.
Richard Boyatzis, who is a uhone of the preeminent thought
leaders on emotionalintelligence, him and uh another
professor from Harvard.
When I did my doctoral studies,Boyatzis wrote a lot of the
stuff.
And he teaches at Case, so Igot to be involved in that
(01:23):
program.
It was a lot of fun.
Ralph Ford (01:25):
Do you consider yourself an emotionally
intelligent leader?
Christopher Harben (01:28):
Over years of practice, yes.
That doesn't mean that I'mperfect, and I think that's one
of the tenets of emotionalintelligence is you know what
you do well and what you don'tdo well, and you try to avoid
those things you don't do well.
Ralph Ford (01:39):
I mean, there's a ton of evidence that you can be
as bright as you can, but if youdon't have emotionally
intelligent leaders are the oneswho end up at the top.
Is that fair assessment?
Christopher Harben (01:48):
I think that's fair.
In fact, some of the researchthat I'm planning right now
relative to family businesses isreally reacting to the needs
for up-and-coming leaders andhow we can create a tool to help
establish leadership and familybusinesses kind of pick out who
are the best suited people inthe organization to be the next
gen.
Ralph Ford (02:07):
Yeah, because there's a lot of emotion.
We're gonna get into all ofthis today, but there's a lot of
emotion around family-runbusinesses, I'm sure.
Christopher Harben (02:13):
Yes, I think I I often joke that the problem
with family business is not thebusiness.
Ralph Ford (02:18):
That's right, it's the people, right?
Right.
It's always the people.
It's the family.
Well, you know, a little bitmore, your research focuses on
small business strategy,organizational leadership, and
uh family business continuation.
So, well, let's uh you know,let's jump right in.
Uh I always love to start outwith this question what's the
pathway to Penn State Behrend?
How did you end up here?
Christopher Harben (02:40):
That was really interesting.
I was teaching in a programvery similar to what I'm
teaching here, and they, as whathappens in higher ed, um they
made some decisions aboutcutting the program, and I
needed to do a search.
So I was four hours away andwas very fortunate to fit in
here.
Um, you know, the transitionwas nice because I went from a
(03:01):
D1 school to this school, butthat was not a large D1 school.
I preferred the small campusenvironment.
I prefer being able to walkaround campus and knowing
students by name, by face, byseeing them.
So the path was, you know,fairly, fairly traditional in
that I I had a need, and it justwas fortuitous that the need
(03:21):
was met here.
So I consider myself verylucky, and I'm not saying that
because I'm here with you.
I've been talking about this.
This is now my ninth year here.
Um I I like to say that we arethe better Penn State campus.
Ralph Ford (03:34):
Well, I think we've got a lot to offer.
It's a really specialenvironment, and I think you
just encapsulated a whole lot ofthat.
Well, let's talk about uh, youknow, your role as the academic
director of the Center forFamily Business.
This business was this center,excuse me, was launched in 2021.
You know, just walk us throughthis.
(03:55):
What does the center do?
What's your role there?
You know, give us thebackground.
Christopher Harben (03:59):
I think it's important to talk about the
genesis of the idea.
So we had some key people, GregFilbeck and Tom Hoffman,
looking around the region andsaying, we're noticing that
there are businesses,particularly family businesses,
that are getting to a pointwhere they can't sustain
themselves from one generationto the next.
And a lot of times they werebeing sold.
And the people buying them hadno real interest in keeping them
(04:21):
in northwest Pennsylvania.
So we started this reallythinking this is a way that we
can help strengthen familybusinesses so that they can
stay.
It's an economic argument,really.
We want to try to see how do wekeep as many of these
businesses running strong innorthwest Pennsylvania.
And then we looked around andsaid there really isn't anything
like this.
There was a information desertanywhere from Cleveland to
(04:44):
Buffalo to Pittsburgh, therewasn't anything like this.
Now, since then, there there isone in Cleveland, but they
operate a lot different than us.
And there are there are familybusiness centers across the
country, but there wasn'tanything nearby.
So our focus was really todevelop a center where we are
providing information, providingnetworking, providing family
(05:05):
businesses the opportunity towork with each other so they
realize they're not bythemselves.
A lot of times when you talk toa family business, they will
say things that indicate thatthey believe they're very
different than every otherfamily business.
But when they really talk toanother person, they realize oh,
you have the same knuckleheaduncle that I do.
Oh, we have the same struggleas as you.
(05:26):
And this has come up every timewe put on a program, every time
we bring in a speaker, peoplefeel this initial connection,
feel energized, feel likethey're a lot more likely to be
successful because they don'tfeel like they're on that island
anymore.
Ralph Ford (05:44):
A lot of it, I think I've been to a number of your
programs.
And by the way, they're alwaysinspiring, and you're right,
they're some of the same themes.
I can't say I've been to themall.
But one that always strikes meis you've got this question
about what role should thedifferent family members have
here?
And that's often a struggle.
Someone's got to perhaps be thechief executive, the CFO.
How do you walk people throughthose really difficult
(06:06):
conversations and help them makerational decisions, emotionally
intelligent decisions?
Christopher Harben (06:11):
I think that's one of the reasons I got
that certificate, is becausewhen you think about the family
business operating model, it isnot unlike any other business,
except it has the family dynamicwrapped around it, so that
complicates things.
You know, I was reading againthe biography of one of our
speakers at the upcomingconference, and she was saying
she had no interest in beinginvolved in the family business,
(06:32):
but she was involved because itwas dinner time conversation
all her life.
So that's one of the challengesis how do you balance the life
of the family versus the life ofthe business and can you
separate them?
And sometimes that causesschisms that causes the future
generations to not even want tobe involved.
(06:53):
It is not really a uniqueproblem to just family
businesses, too.
I want to make this clear, youknow, if if you are a regular
business, you would benefit froma lot of the stuff we do at the
Center for Family Businessbecause a lot of small
businesses go through that.
Someone starts a smallbusiness, they get it to a
particular level where theirskill sets are no longer helping
feed growth.
(07:14):
And now you have to getemotionally intelligent enough
to recognize I need to addsomeone else with different sets
of skill sets, and that's atough thing to do sometimes.
So that's why you'll see a lotof entrepreneurs fail.
They'll get to a certain level,they force themselves to stick
to it because gosh darn it,they've got it this far.
And I'll get it further, butthey don't have the skills.
Ralph Ford (07:38):
How do you like you know, so you've got, let's, you
know, the in your visual there,the family sitting around the
dinner table.
But how do you bring anexternal obviously Center for
Family Business is one external,but do they ever you encourage
them to create boards ofdirectors or advisory boards?
I mean, what are the mechanismsyou get them to see this?
Christopher Harben (07:57):
One of the ways is we do it incrementally,
first of all, in a verynon-threatening way, if we can
encourage people to just comeand network with other family
businesses, that opens the door.
Then we would say get involvedin peer groups.
So we sponsor peer groupsthrough the center where you
have members of familybusinesses getting together
every month where it's veryinformal, not non-threatening,
(08:18):
very private.
We like to say what happens inpeer group stays in peer group
because uh people want to beable to feel comfortable.
It gets very intimate and itbecomes sort of this de facto uh
board.
I remember sitting in on onewhere the group was starting to
talk about a subject they hadplanned on talking about, and a
member came in a few minuteslater and says, I don't know
(08:38):
what anyone's talking about, butI need to talk about this.
And he was struggling withwhether to fire someone.
And the group just pivoted andsupported him.
Those kind of things set thestage for helping people have an
open mind to having outsideinfluence, outside advisory.
The next step is an advisoryboard where it is purely just
(09:00):
advisory that has no power.
You can't hire and fireanybody.
But typically we recommend thatthose advisors come from a
variety of different walks oflife, different industries.
You don't want to create anecho chamber where if you're in
manufacturing, you're in a peergroup with all manufacturers.
There's a benefit to hearingpeople from the service industry
(09:22):
from other places.
And then the ultimate level isthe fiduciary board, where you
actually have a board in placethat can help steer the company
through rough times.
I can't underscore this enoughbecause it is a struggle
sometimes for a business,particularly a family business,
when they've built it up throughthe family and they have to get
(09:42):
to the point where they'rethinking about this, it's really
tough to have the thought ofgiving up some control.
So that might be the initialthing.
If I have a board, then I nolonger have a hundred percent.
Speaker 00 (09:53):
That's correct.
Christopher Harben (09:55):
But what they have to think about is
where the board becomesparticularly useful is in the
notion of succession planning.
What happens if the patriarchor matriarch is running the
company and they have a medicalissue, which has happened, I
mean, more people than you wouldthink that I talked to, that
has been the trigger for thetransition.
Dad died, mom got sick, Iwasn't planning on being in the
(10:18):
business, but now I have to be.
Had there been a board inplace, it smooths that
transition out.
It takes a lot of pressure offthe people that own the
business.
And I think that's an importantpoint, too.
Family businesses have to kindof think, you know, bilaterally.
I'm an owner and I'm and I'm anoperator.
You don't have to be both forit to be a family business.
(10:39):
And I think more and morefamily businesses are
recognizing I don't have theskill sets to be an operator.
I am an owner.
I want to maintain theownership for family legacy for
that asset.
I'll bring in outside places,and that's where a board helps a
lot.
Ralph Ford (10:54):
Someone else to operate it.
What happens in the case, let'ssay you've got a family, but
there's no there's no apparentsuccession plan.
And they they don't want tosell the private equity, but
they need to sell it tosomebody.
Is there some in-between there?
Are there way creative ways youcan work this out with
companies?
Christopher Harben (11:12):
That's a great question.
So we have one of our originalmembers, a company called Onex
here in town.
Ralph Ford (11:18):
Oh, yeah, know them well.
Christopher Harben (11:19):
Ashley Hoyer was one of the CEO at the time.
They transitioned from a familybusiness to an eSOP.
Now, an eSOP is a veryinteresting option that uh it is
somewhere in between selling.
Uh, and in fact, one of ourspeakers at the upcoming
conference is really going to betalking about this because they
transitioned from a familybusiness to an eSop.
And I'm not an eSop expert.
(11:39):
I will bring in experts, but Iwon't even pretend to be one.
But this is one of the wayswhere you can gradually
transition from the familyowning it.
So there could be some revenuegenerated for the family as
they're stepping out.
They have professionalmanagement that comes in and
starts running the company, itstays in the area, it largely
maintains the culture that'sestablished because the
(12:01):
employees are still there.
The employees now are owners,so they have a higher level of
engagement, higher level of youknow, respect for the company
because it's their company now,and it is something to at least
consider.
It's a you know, it's it's notsimple.
It's one of those things whereyou would definitely want to
have an advisor, and there areprofessional advisors out there
(12:21):
to walk that through.
But I've always suggested it assomething that people should
consider.
One of the problems that familybusinesses have is when the
current leaders want to get out,how do they generate any
revenue to live the lifestylethey've been used to?
Because if I'm acting as CEO,I'm paying myself a salary.
But if I'm no longer the CEOand I'm not getting a salary,
(12:44):
where's the money coming from?
And if I sell it to my kids, dothey have the financial
resources to be able to provideme a salary for not doing
anything while I'm retired?
It gets a lot more complicated.
And this is the this is the keyto why we started the center.
To go back to your firstquestion, if I summed it up into
one thing, we want to causefamily businesses to have
(13:07):
questions and conversationsbefore they need to.
You know, too often you see afamily business get to a trigger
point, dad or mom gets sick,um, there is uh some sort of
economic catastrophe orsomething like this where they
have to do something, andthey've never thought about it
before that point.
I'd much rather think about itbefore and never need it than to
(13:28):
have to think about it themoment it's happening.
Ralph Ford (13:30):
And the reality is someday something's going to
happen.
So it's going to happen one wayor another.
That's the reality.
Christopher Harben (13:36):
One of the CEOs uh that is speaking at our
conference, she made thiscomment to me.
She goes, I never paidattention to the family business
because dad was going to liveforever.
Ralph Ford (13:45):
That's right.
Doesn't work that way.
No.
You only think that's the case.
Well, and the other thing aboutthe power of what you're doing
is you've got a lot of peopleinvolved in the community, so
they can reach out to get a lotof advice from experts in the
community as well.
Christopher Harben (13:59):
We have those expert relationships
either via sponsorrelationships, so formal
sponsors of the center, or wejust know people.
And that's that's what we tryto do.
We're not a consulting agency.
We don't provide directconsulting ourselves.
My role as the academicdirector is to leverage Penn
State's resources as best I can.
Our director, Jake Jones, hisjob is to be out there in the
(14:22):
community developing newcommunity relationships.
We're we're the conduit for alot of the stuff out there.
As I mentioned before, we werein an information desert, at
least relative to familybusinesses.
There's always been a lot ofresources out there, whether
it's all the universities in thearea, we're very fortunate to
have a lot of universities inthe area.
The innovation beehive is thisreally underrated asset for the
(14:46):
community that more businessesneed to take advantage of.
And we're trying to connectpeople to those things.
So we look at ourselves as thatconduit as a connector.
Ralph Ford (14:54):
Now your background is in strategy.
You're an expert there.
So how does that play in?
Do you give a lot of strategicadvice?
You you know, you focus onstrategic planning.
How's that factor in?
Christopher Harben (15:03):
Well, the way I simplify it is strategy is
about playing the game with apurpose, right?
You can go out there as a kidand go out to an empty field
with a ball and just throw aball around.
But once you have a purpose,then there's a method to doing
that.
And I can help businesses.
We put on strategic planningworkshops to help businesses
think about the first steps.
(15:24):
One of the things that I Inotice with strategy clients and
even some of our members isthat when they are thinking
about strategy, they're thinkingabout the tasks to do.
What do I need to do?
Do I need to introduce a newproduct?
Do I need to go to a newmarket?
Do I need to expand myofferings?
Do I go to a new location?
(15:46):
And what I help them understandis we might have to go back a
few steps.
Do you have established values?
What's your vision?
What's your mission?
And a lot of those things havebecome checkboxes over the
years.
But when we work with people,we help them understand that
those are foundational.
And without those, that task isgoing to be maybe worth it,
(16:08):
maybe it will work.
You could get lucky, but ourbusinesses don't have the margin
for error just to try to getlucky.
Strategy is about takingcalculated risks and putting
your best resources forward.
Ralph Ford (16:22):
Adapting is necessary.
So you mentioned earlier JacobJones, Jake Jones, he's
relatively new, so you have aco-director model.
Tell us a bit about him.
I know he couldn't join us heretoday, and uh how's that work
between the two of you workingtogether in this?
Christopher Harben (16:37):
So originally we didn't have any
directors when we started, so Iwas kind of managing all the
roles, but when we brought Jakeon, he and I work together, both
reporting to the director ofthe school business.
So we have distinct roles.
Co-directors, but really he'sthe director, I'm the academic
director.
So, you know, Jake will be outthere dealing with fundraising.
(16:59):
He runs the day-to-dayoperations, he interacts with
the board mostly.
We share the role of putting onprogramming, although I'll say
Jake has done an outstandingjob.
You know, we went from havingprogramming, our goal of having
programming once a month, nowthat Jake's been on, we have
more than one program a month atleast.
(17:20):
Plus, he's he's activelyengaged in the community, doing
podcasts, you know, with ourmembers, with community leaders.
Great.
Uh video podcasts.
It's just been, we went from anactivity level, you know, at a
50% activity level to an 80%activity level relative to this.
And it's still really just thetwo of us running the center.
Ralph Ford (17:39):
Well, Tell you, one of the things that you know has
really very pleasantly surprisedme.
I mean, I've been involved inthe discussion since this was
created, is the number ofcompanies and the number of
people that have beeninterested.
It's just been astounding,actually.
Christopher Harben (17:52):
Yeah, I think in especially when you
compare us to other suchcenters.
So when we started this, youknow, Dr.
Filbeck was involved in thecenter at the University of
Toledo, and a lot of this wasmodeled after the University of
Toledo.
They have been in existence for28 years, maybe even more than
that.
And they have 200 and somemembers.
(18:13):
We've been in existence forfive years, and we've got 80.
Wow.
So our trajectory was reallyquick, very fast, and I think
that's a testament to the factthat there was a need that was
being unmet in the marketplace.
And I think it's also atestament to the stakeholders
that we were able to developrelationships with outside, and
we've had a very strong board,too.
So we have some very key peopleon the board that have been
(18:36):
very instrumental.
Uh, Bill Lillis is the chairmanof our board.
Philip Katen has been on theboard for you know since the
beginning.
We have several people likethat that have been around since
the beginning.
They give us a lot of goodadvice.
But again, it goes back to uhthere was a significant need.
Another story I will tell youis that I went to a family
business conference inSacramento that was put on by a
(18:58):
regional Center for FamilyBusiness out there.
They had 75 members, and theyput on a two-day conference, and
you know they had been inexistence for over 20 years as
well.
So for us to do this, we're notthe size of Sacramento.
You know, we don't have thatkind of capital region.
That that's the capital regionof California that they call
(19:20):
that.
We don't have that, but we'restill getting that number of
membership.
Ralph Ford (19:24):
Well, can you, without naming names, can you
confidently say that uh you knowthere are businesses that are
in existence today that mightnot have been if the if the
center didn't exist, or is itquite that black and white?
Christopher Harben (19:37):
I don't know.
I don't think I don't think wehave had any businesses that
have joined that were in perilthat were like that.
Um but I think it's safe to saythat because of some of the
programming we have, we havebusinesses that are better
positioned to have greaterlongevity than they would have.
Again, we go back to the mantraof our center.
Ralph Ford (19:57):
Fair enough.
Christopher Harben (19:58):
Force you to ask those questions before you
have to.
Ralph Ford (20:00):
Now we're an academic institution, obviously.
We've got a lot of faculty andstudents.
Are there faculty involved?
Are are students involved inthe center?
Christopher Harben (20:08):
We are more transitioning into that.
That is really my role.
And because until we broughtJake on, I didn't have as much
time as I would like to havedone that.
But Jake's been here now ayear, and this is transitioning.
The conference we have comingup, since it's in October, we
have a lot of students involved,we have a lot of faculty
involved as participants.
I think this is going to be agood opportunity for them to
(20:30):
experience what the center is.
Now we do have studentsinvolved with members.
So in my strategy class, Ibring in companies each semester
where students work on a what Icall a live case project.
They take on a company as aclient.
All those companies for thelast two years have been members
of the Center for FamilyBusiness.
So these students are gettingexposed to family businesses
(20:53):
that way.
Um we have faculty that put onprograms for through the center.
So I'm reaching out andutilizing those resources within
Penn State Behrend's world tohelp, you know, connect with our
members.
Ralph Ford (21:07):
Well, you have referred several times to the
annual conference.
It's coming up here soon.
And uh, why don't you tell usabout uh the annual conference,
October 8th and 9th, I believe,is coming up.
Christopher Harben (21:18):
Right.
The 8th, we kick it off with asocial event here on campus at
the Metzger Alumni Center.
This is a social event thatgives people an opportunity to
meet speakers and network.
But the big event is October9th at the Bayfront.
We have four keynote speakersthroughout the day.
It is an outstandingopportunity for people to meet
and interact with CEOs ofwell-known companies that have
(21:41):
gone through some form ofsuccession.
The theme this year is thesuccession.
It's a little bittongue-in-cheek because it's the
second year, so it's succeedingour first year.
But each of these speakers havehad some particular expertise
and a different experience withsuccession.
The first one's Gutman Energy.
So Joe Luco is a former CFO ofGiant Eagle, and he went to
(22:05):
Gutman Energy as a CFO there,and now he's the CEO, and he led
the transition for GutmanHoldings to become an eSOP from
a more than 90-year-old familybusiness.
He's got a lot of reallygranular experience with if
you're thinking of this option,here's some things you should
think about.
Here's some things we wentthrough.
His keynote by itself would bevaluable because if anyone's
(22:29):
thinking about what do I dosometime in the future, and they
want to understand maybe eSOPis one of those considerations,
this would be a great one.
Our second keynote is a PennState grad.
Uh, his name is Bradley Frank.
He's really a triple threat.
He's an accountant, he's a CPA,he's an entrepreneur.
He wrote a best-selling bookcalled The Succession Solution.
(22:50):
It's a guide for businessesgoing through succession.
He now advises companies onsuccession planning.
He's another, it's a great kindof non-threatening way to
listen to an expert provideadvice without having to hire
them.
And the thing we look at withhaving Brad here is that Brad's
talk will actually make ourmembers better clients for the
(23:13):
local advisors that exist.
So if you have an accountantrelationship, you have an
attorney relationship, listeningto Brad is going to help you be
a better client for thosepeople.
And the first hundred peoplethat register, and we're getting
close, first hundred peoplethat register get a copy of his
book.
The third keynote speaker I'mexcited about.
I've known Sherry for years.
(23:34):
Um Sherry runs, SherryBrumbaugh runs an Ohio-based
trucking company called GarnerTrucking.
If anyone's been on Route 90,they've seen the trucks.
They're black trucks with bigred letters, says Garner.
This is a regional butnationally known trucking
company.
They constantly are beingawarded, uh, I think they're in
the Hall of Fame for best fleetsto drive for, which means you
(23:58):
have to win that award 10 yearsin a row to become a Hall of
Famer, and they've been in aHall of Fame three years now.
So it's an outstanding story.
And she started off as a musicteacher.
She was a band director, andshe was the one sitting around
the family table saying, have nointerest in being in dad's
business, dad's gonna liveforever.
And then her dad got sick, andher mom said, You know, Sherry,
(24:19):
I think you can do this, andshe's transitioning in that
role.
Second generation CEO in abusiness that's primarily male.
So she's got a great, greatstory to tell.
And then finally, and I justrealized this the other day,
this has a Pennsylvaniaconnection, even though it's an
Ohio company.
If anyone's familiar withNortheast Ohio Cleveland area,
they're familiar with Malley'sChocolates.
(24:40):
Well, I didn't realize thatMalley's Chocolates got it
traced its roots to Meadville.
Because the original MikeMalley worked at a chocolate
store in Meadville before heended up growing up and moved to
Lakewood, Ohio, bought a storefor $500, rented a store for
$500, and started what's nowMalley's Chocolates with over 18
stores at a 60,000 square footfacility right by the airport.
(25:04):
So he and he's the thirdgeneration chocolatier.
He's a former CEO.
They just transitioned awayfrom having a family member CEO.
They have a non-family memberCEO.
And he will talk about theirplans for the future as well as
with regard to succession.
Ralph Ford (25:18):
It's a great lineup of speakers.
So if people are interested,how do they find out more?
Christopher Harben (25:22):
The easiest way, you go to our website,
family business, all one word,familybusiness.psu.edu, or they
can email me directly, CLH612 atpsu.edu. G
Ralph Ford (25:36):
And uh, you know, before we finish up, we're
getting close here.
I want to talk a bit about AI.
We hear about it all the time,and you know, if properly used,
as we said earlier before westarted this discussion, it can
be a real force multiplier.
Are small small businessesasking about this?
Are you involved?
Tell us about this.
Christopher Harben (25:55):
I'm not directly involved other than in
my own world.
I'm starting to incorporate ita lot more.
I would consider myself a lateadopter to it.
I was suspicious of it atfirst, but now I'm starting to
realize just the amount ofefficiency it can create.
And it's been something that'sbeen a topic on the minds of our
members.
So a couple months ago, we hada great AI presentation by one
(26:17):
of our faculty here, two of ourmembers.
It's we brought in uh communityexperts, created this great
discussion because I think ithas more impact to small
businesses than small businessesrealize.
I think right now there's a lotof perspective out there that
this is what the big companiesare doing.
They're going to institute itinto their call centers, they're
going to do in quoting systems.
(26:37):
But I was talking to a smallbusiness the other day where she
is a one or two, three peoplein her office, and she's looking
at it.
Can it help me with marketing?
You know, you can create AIchatbots on the website, and she
can get quotes from that, itcan take that data and start
creating media marketingcampaigns.
(26:58):
So I think right now, more andmore of our members, because we
don't have huge business sizemembers, we are really the small
to middle size uh center, and Ithink there's a lot of
opportunity there.
Ralph Ford (27:10):
So much.
And I you know, another area tothink about is it's a strategic
thought partner, right?
You you're the strategicleader, but it can challenge,
you know, you can have itexamine your strategic plan.
It can ask you really criticalquestions.
There's so much that it's it'smore than asking it to help you
write uh a document and anemail, but really, you know,
have it challenge your thinking.
Christopher Harben (27:31):
So in my strategy class, that's one of
the things I'm having studentsdo.
They're doing uh a caseassessment as is typical at this
level, and I'm having them useAI to vet their recommendations,
to kind of not you're not usingit to write the case, you're
having AI to check your work orsay, hey, have you thought about
this?
Here's another thing that'sworked.
(27:53):
Even in the book I'm writing onstrategy, I'm putting uh a
section in there where saying,okay, if you go through this
section, use AI to check yourwork.
Part of the thing is, you know,if we think about it outside
the of academia, businessesdon't have a whole lot of time
to devote to this.
This is one of the reasons thatthey don't put as much effort
into strategic planning as theyshould.
(28:14):
But if they can utilize AI,they make the work they're
putting in a lot more efficient.
Ralph Ford (28:20):
Yeah, it's it can really make a lot of difference
if you use it uh veryeffectively and strategically.
Well, let me switch to uh youmentioned your class, so that
makes me think.
Tell us a little bit about yourteaching.
What's your philosophy ofteaching?
What do you like to do in theclassroom?
Christopher Harben (28:36):
So I like to believe I was hired here just
because I am an applicationsexpert.
So I am not someone thatproduces a lot of research, but
what I do is I take the researchthat's out there and help
students apply it to real worldsituations.
My my thinking is in, you know,in the academic world, it's a
balance between creating newknowledge and then applying that
(28:56):
knowledge.
I'm the application guy.
So when you come into myclassroom, we're gonna do some
typical academic things, caseanalysis, but that case analysis
leads to real-world currentlevel discussions.
I'm talking about clients thatI have, I'm talking about
members of our center, I'mcomparing it to current business
issues, whether it's the tariffissues, whether it's you know,
(29:18):
strategy relative to AI, howdoes this affect strategy?
And then getting other actualbusinesses involved, students
really, really love being ableto work with a living, breathing
business.
You know, it's a lot differentthan the theoretical.
So mine is less on thetheoretical, more on the
practical.
Mine is the capstone class.
(29:38):
It's one of the last thingsthey do before they graduate.
So my philosophy to them is myjob is to help you differentiate
yourself from all the otherstudents out there.
As business students, they'renot rare, they're not unique.
You can fall out of a buildingon Peach Street and you're gonna
hit three other business majorson the way down.
So, what sets you apart?
And I believe with my Teachingis what sets my students apart
(30:03):
is they've been there, done thatmore than others have because
of the way we run this class.
Ralph Ford (30:07):
Well, I think it's the whole idea behind our open
lab philosophy here.
And uh I'll just say right on,I'm I'm with you, and in fact,
I'm teaching a capstone classthis semester with student
projects.
And what we hear across theboard is that capstone
experience is so important intheir future career.
Well, let's uh let's uh switchto your long-term vision for the
(30:28):
Center for Family Business.
What would you like to see itlook like five, ten years from
now?
Christopher Harben (30:32):
Well, that's that's fascinating because
we're just having thesediscussions because frankly,
when you're a growingorganization, it's sometimes
hard to be looking 10 years downthe road, five years down the
road because you're focused ongetting the growth now.
We are finally at critical massnow where we're refining what
we're doing.
We're refining, we have someprogramming that's always
(30:53):
happening every year.
We plan to have the conferenceevery year.
We have a leadershipdevelopment program, two
versions of that every year.
We have a succession planningworkshop every year, and we do a
half-day event in May everyyear.
So those are sort of ourfoundational programs, and this
allows us to build around that.
I think what we're lookingultimately is to be so
(31:14):
influential and so um well donethat this spreads across other
campuses, starting to interactmore with other Penn State
campuses, starting to be aresource for other Penn State
campuses, using those resourcesfor the benefit of our members.
There isn't another one likethis in the Penn State system.
No, there isn't.
So they're watching us just asmuch as as anything.
(31:35):
Um, and I think we've beenwe've been living up to a lot of
the expectations, but I thinkthat's the long-term vision.
It becomes more integral to theentire Commonwealth campus
system rather than just residinghere and only focusing on
Behrend.
Ralph Ford (31:48):
Well, that's a great vision, and this has been a
wonderful conversation.
Have learned a lot.
I know that uh our listenersare going to get a lot out of
this one.
Uh Chris, uh, this has beengreat.
I've been today's discussionhas been with uh Dr.
Chris Harben, who is the uhacademic director of the Center
for Family Business here at PennState Behrend.
(32:08):
Fascinating conversation.
Thank you for being here today.
Christopher Harben (32:10):
Thank you, Ralph.
Ralph Ford (32:11):
Take care.
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