#230 - Being a Creative - Being Boss with Emily + Kathleen

Episode Transcript
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Emily Thompson (00:02):
I'm Emily Thompson.

Kathleen Shannon (00:04):
And I'm Kathleen Shannon.

And this is being boss. In this episode of
being boss, join Kathleen and meas we talk about practicing and
being a creative. As always, youcan find all the tools, books
and links we reference on theshow notes at WWW dot being boss
dot club. Okay, Kathleen, I havea challenge for us today.

What is it?

Let's not talk business. Yay. As much as
possible, I think we need tolike maybe use the word a couple
of times to draw propercomparisons. But like not
talking businesses The name ofthis? Well, then

what are we talking about?

Creativity. The other part of what it is we're
all here doing is being acreative. So let's talk about
that. Instead,

I'm stoked to talk about this, because
creativity is one of my corevalues, since I was little. And
it extends so much beyondbusiness. And I think that we've
been lucky that we've been ableto monetize our creativity along
the way. But whenever we getback down to the essence of who

(01:15):
we are, and what we're doinghere, on this planet Earth, it's
about being creative,

right. And we spend so much time talking about
business and the importance ofbusiness and the importance of
understanding how businessworks, especially as creative
business owners orentrepreneurs, being a business
owner is important. And we havebeen here talking about
business. Because we knowwhenever we started this
podcast, there was no onetalking about creative business,

(01:41):
like we were the first oneshowing up and talking about
what it was like to be creativeand to use your unique skill set
to make money for yourself onyour own terms. So we've sort of
built a platform for ourselvestalking about business. And that
is what everyone is reallyencouraged you and everyone is
talking about business thesedays, I feel like but

(02:05):
oftentimes, and I think that'sdefinitely the case, currently,
that's to the detriment of beinga creative of cultivating your
creativity of practicing yourcreativity. And so I think
we're,

I was just gonna say, think about, like,
how many business owners areconstantly saying, I miss doing
things with my hands. Yeah,like, how often do we see how
often have we said thatourselves? Many, many times,
many times for anyone who missesdoing things with their hands,

right, we're just going to talk about
creativity today. And I'mexcited to dive into this
because I feel like everyonelistening is going to get to
hear sort of some behind thescenes of what it's like to be a
million Kathleen, like creativebusiness bosses who are doing
things and buildingspreadsheets, and delivering
projects and all of thesethings, but also like what we're
doing behind the scenes, and thethings we are having

(02:54):
conversations about still, we'rejust not sharing about them in
this space. So, you know, formost of us, being a business
owner is not what fuels us beinga creative or being or
practicing creativity is. Sowe're gonna focus on that today.
I'm super excited to dive in.
Let's begin though, with thebusiness comparison. I think
let's just go ahead and get thisout of the way. And let's not

(03:16):
bring it up again. What do yousee is the difference in your
own personal experience, thedifference between the creat
like purely creative process,and a business process you build
maybe even around yourcreativity?

Well, I think for the both of us, it's going
to be a little bit differentbecause I have made my role and
my job at my business being thecreative director. So my
creative process whenever itcomes to work, and my more hobby
creative stuff isn't thatdifferent? It's really about
blocking out broad strokes, youknow, really zooming out and

(04:00):
thinking about Okay, what is itthat I think I want to create?
And how can I start to blockthat out into broad strokes for
so if you're writing a book,this looks like a table of
contents. If you are blockingout a process, it looks like the
beginning, middle and end. Ifyou're painting a canvas, it
looks like getting thatbackground kind of blocked out.

(04:20):
And then I start to zoom in andI get a little bit more specific
in one area. So that's writingthe chapter writing the
sentences, and then you zoomback out and you see how it fits
in the whole picture. And thenso for me, it's this process of
just constantly zooming out andzooming in. My creative process
and my business process are verysimilar, but obviously with

(04:42):
business, I'm getting paid forthat creativity. So I'm
definitely sharing it more alongthe way. I'm giving creative
briefs along the way. I'marticulating my choices and why
I'm doing what I'm doing.
Whereas with a more hobbycentered, creative process. I'm
not having to explain anythingto anyone I can get weird with
it. I'm not in any sort oftimeline, for better or worse.

(05:04):
And yeah, like once for fun andfor cultivating creativity and
cultivating, you know, likenurturing my soul. And one is
for it not to say that my workdoesn't also really fulfill me
in deep and meaningful ways.
Like whenever I dive into abrand platform, I start to get

(05:25):
into that flow just as much aswhenever I'm painting a canvas.
So for me, yeah, there's,there's a lot of overlap, how
about you? Like, what's thedifference for you, because you
are more of the left brainedside of business. So it probably
does feel quite a bit differentfor you, hmm,

it totally dies, it feels completely different
for me. So whenever I'm buildinga business process, even if it's
a business process that is builtto sort of conduct creativity,
for me, I see those businessprocesses as sort of science,
like you build this process thatyou know, is going to equate to
more or less the same outcomeevery single time that you do

(06:03):
it. And you can build in a bitof room in there just sort of
have those creative freedoms.
But for me, that's science. Forlike purposes of this, of this
description, and sort of, onbusiness, creativity is art.
Like, I don't go at it with anyprocess, like if you were to see
how I run business, and like myspreadsheets, and my project

(06:23):
management, and all of thosethings, and then look at how I
go at a creative project, that'sjust for fun, you would think
they were being conducted by twocompletely different people. So
for me, it is very different. Ican just like I, for me, one of
my values is creativity as well,which is I think one of the
reasons why I've always gottenalong so well. And then another
one of mine is freedom. So forme, business always feels quite

(06:47):
confining to me. And I try tobuild businesses in a way that I
can have freedom within them.
But whenever I'm just beingcreative, it's complete freedom,
I can do whatever I want,however I want, whenever I want,
whatever it may be, and there'sno, there's so few structures
that go into place whenever I ambeing a creative. Like I said,

(07:12):
it's like two different peopleare doing these things. So I
find them very different. I liketo build hardcore structures and
business, I like to just dowhatever the hell I want,
whenever I'm just being acreative.

Well, so let's dive into that a little bit, how
to be creative, exploring thecreative process, it can be hard
to know where to start wheneveryou don't have structures built
around it, and habits androutine and mindset and all of
that. So I want to start with amindset, part of creativity and
the creative process. We heardsomething really interesting

(07:46):
while we were in Guatemala, thatreally resonated with the both
of us, which is you need to feelsafe to be creative. So I want
to tell everyone, right now,you've got to get there first.
So whether that's a mantra, likeI am safe to create an even
regardless of what's going on inthe world, sometimes it doesn't
feel safe to be creative,because of your own narrative or

(08:08):
identity. Even literally tellingyourself, oh, I'm not creative.
And we have a lot of people wholisten to this podcast, and
they're like, Well, I'm notcreative, I do this, this and
this, but I'm not a creative andwe're like, Yes, you are. So
first and foremost, everyone isa creative, but you need to
start to tell yourself thatyou're creative, you start
telling yourself that you aresafe to create. And what's also

(08:32):
funny on the flip side of thatis I have found that whenever I
don't feel safe whenever I feelinsecure, or scared that
cultivating my creativity isultimately what gives me
confidence and the feeling ofsafety. So it's a little bit of
a catch 22. And I know that alot of people listening to this

(08:53):
might struggle with depressionor anxiety and have a hard time
like sparking that productivityor that momentum that it takes
to be creative. So I'm hopingthat we can touch a little bit
on creative process to just getstarted. And I think it starts
with acknowledging andrecognizing yourself as a
creative.

I also think that there's a good dose of
confidence that is required tosort of be a wildly creative. So
to try something new, forexample, like if you have a sort
of poor sense of self or lowself esteem, you're going to
find it very difficult to trysomething new because you're not

(09:33):
going to be comfortable beingbad at something because the
first time you try somethingnew, you're probably going to be
bad at it. And I think thattakes a certain amount of self
confidence to be okay with beingbad at something in order to
keep going so that you becomegreat at something. So there is
some cultivating confidence. Andagain, same like catch 22 like

(09:55):
which comes first the well allthe course always comes before
the car So chicken or the egg?
How about that? first thechicken or the egg? Is it you
know creating to build yourconfidence? Or is it building
your confidence so you cancreate, I think they both sort
of have to happen together. Andit's like failing those first
couple of times that lead youdown the road to getting out,

(10:18):
right, that sort of builds thatconfidence so that you become
more comfortable trying newthings and being creative.

You know, I love Tara Moore's exercise on
finding your inner mentor. Andwe've had her on the podcast
before check the show notesbecause we'll link to that
episode. But Tara more has thisexercise where you are
visualizing yourself 20 to 30years in the future. And this is
my number one motivation forovercoming fear or it's my

(10:48):
number one tool for overcomingfear. And really not caring if I
suck right now. Because thecreativity that I'm cultivating
is for my future self, it is forthe person that I want to become
not necessarily the person thatI feel that I am. So we've
talked about this in thatepisode. I've always had this
vision of like caftan I call itcaftan house. That's my vision.

(11:13):
I'm wearing kaftans and I livein this beautiful house and it's
so funny even seeing what hasmanifested since then, because I
have the house now. I have acloset full of kaftans I'm
getting there that kaftan housemy kaftan house self is painting
and reading and cooking andhaving interesting conversations

(11:34):
over you know, cups ofbeautifully crafted tea and I'm
saying this as I'm Sipping SomeAlmanac spring awakened tea.
Look at you go. Official brandambassador

doing it. Thank you.

Um, but, you know, that's who I want to be.
And so with that I'm okay withsucking right now. I'm okay with
starting at square one. wheneverit comes to learning how to play
the piano or painting a canvas.
I'm just gonna start now.
Because in 20 or 30 years, I'mgoing to be that creative lady

(12:11):
that has some like wisdom, andour house smells like good food
and weird herbs and all thethings like that's who I want to
be.

Your house smells like weird herbs. Like
it? Yeah, oh,

I know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I do. I
do.

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So let's dive into what itactually looks like for us to be
creative when that B word No,we're not talking about anymore
has nothing to do with it. And Bword is business because you're

(13:37):
looking at me like what do youorder? He talks

about calling me a bitch right now.

Not this time.
So let's talk about what itlooks like to be creative. So
you all should know thatKathleen and I, we've talked
about this are on Marco Polotalking about all kinds of crazy
crap all the time to each other.
But one of the things that we'remost consistently sharing with
each other is what we'recooking.

Because we love talking. Yeah, we love
talking about food. We loveflipping through cookbooks. I
feel like whenever we'retogether in person at each
other's houses, we're justbringing out our stacks of
cookbooks, and flipping throughthem and taking pictures of
recipes.

That is a true story. That is a true story.
Actually, just the other nightmade one of those photoed
recipes where I have a cookbookthat I got, or from recipe that
I got a cookbook at your house.
Last time I was there. This isdefinitely something that we're
doing. We're sharing recipes. Imean, I think it's also sort of
become tradition that every likebirthday or holiday. We're just
buying cookbooks really

well and you know what else is interesting
about this is that we both havegotten in food ruts too. We have
gotten in ruts around cooking.
And we've definitely had to pullourselves out of some holes
whenever it comes to gettingorganized and motivated to be
creative in the kitchen.

For sure. And He will say to That what I'm
talking about here is not likecooking dinner on a Monday night
because your kid is yelling, andyou just need to make something
like we do that we'll cook whenwe have to, for sure. But we
also use cooking as a creativeoutlet, whether it's trying new
recipes, or I always like tosort of perfect recipes like

(15:23):
that's part of my like cookingcreativity process is to find a
recipe that I make over and overagain, so that I can like,
become a master at cooking thisthing. So I want to talk about
that a little bit. I feel likethat's something that you and I
both have in common, we can talkabout it from both like there's
this like mundane side ofcooking that we both will do
when we have to. There's also alot of creative joy that comes

(15:46):
from getting in the kitchen andmaking food and we both sort of
have different differentperspectives of like the part of
this that we find most creativeand enjoyable.

Well, let's start with you. Because I think
that your starts with the recipeand mine ends with plating it
and making it look good. So howdo you begin with your creative
process whenever it comes to arecipe or cooking something that
you're excited about?

Sure. So I think it starts so like I said,
there's one of two things forme, maybe three, let's call it
like, there are three differentcreative projects for me when it
comes to cooking. One is to finda recipe or a food that I want
to perfect. So one of the thingsthat I've decided to do during

(16:32):
quarantine because we are thisis a quarantine episode, I feel
like we're gonna refer back tothese one day is like the
quarantine episodes, or whateverthe Q series,

right?

Geez, we are, I have decided and this is one of
the things that I decided almostimmediately like this is part of
my process of life, in general,is I decided that I wanted to
really perfect my gluten freecornbread recipe. So what I do
is I go through severaldifferent kinds of recipes, and

(17:06):
I just start making that thing.
And I will make it once we'lltry it, I'll see what's right or
wrong about it. And for me, oneof the things I love about doing
this is it's not just like it'snot just proportions of
ingredients or cook times it'salso like the brand of the
ingredients. So for me, I'mtrying to find the perfect torn
mill, which is kind of a problemwhen you can't give everything
available at the grocery store.

(17:28):
But it also is fine because I'mlooking for specific kinds of
cornmeal. So like, how do I likethe size of the grain of my corn
mill? What is my like corn mill,the flour ratio, all of those
sorts of things. So I have beenmaking cornbread, I've probably
made four batches so far. I'mgetting closer and closer. It's
good, but like I'm still sort ofmaking mistakes. And that's the

(17:49):
thing too is I've made mistakes.
I actually put twice as much oilthe last batch of my cornbread
yeah ever had before it wasdense. It was a dense cornbread.

So are you changing one variable at a time?
Are you writing it down everytime like and then just changing
one thing? How are you doingthis?

Oh, that's so funny. I am. This is creative.
Emily is crazy, guys. She's acrazy person, like good, grazie.
It's fine. I don't write thingsdown the way I show it. And I
think that's kind of part oflike what makes it so messy and
fun is I also have to remember,because I will say several years
ago, I got pretty close to mycornbread, but I didn't write it

(18:28):
down. And so now I'm back atsquare one. Doing my cornbread
over again.

He said that there were three things I think
you just listed one, what arethe other

Okay, that was one. So and then Okay, second is
just finding a new recipe that Iwant to try. So you get a new
cookbook, there's a cool recipeor like you come across one on
the internet. I do love, likesmitten kitchen is one of my
favorite sources for recipes.
Right, same half baked harvestas a ham loving, right? So
there's just there's a couple ofplaces around the internet that

(19:02):
sometimes something will pop upin my feed. I'm like, Okay, I'm
making that. And so, I'll oftenjust like go add a recipe. I'm
not a rule follower. We're likerecipe follower. So I'm always
tweaking things, I never makethings quite to recipe, I always
sort of add the things that Ilike I've become if cooked long
enough that I've become quite agood like intuitive cook like I

(19:23):
can always tell that, you know,there's not they're not calling
for enough seasonings or thisother thing that I have in my
refrigerator is going to begreat to add to it. So even
quote unquote following a recipeis a creative process for me
because I'm not just following arecipe. And then the third one
is Oh, it's just kind of likeit's just making something So

(19:45):
recently I wanted to make aDutch baby and, and I always I I
should just write down myrecipe, for sure. But let's say
you want to make something and Ican't find a recipe that I like,
I'll take like four or fiverecipes that I find across
multiple different resources andjust make it up sort of based on

(20:10):
those recipes. And that's notsomething like death babies or
something that I make quiteoften. But it's not something
that I've gone out, like, I'mgonna figure out my Dutch Baby,
you know, it's just sometimes Ineed to make a Dutch baby. And
so I'll go look up a couple ofrecipes, figure it out, make my
own, every time is different.
It's always really tasty. Butalso remember that oil story I

(20:32):
was saying about the cornbread.
So that's sort of my third oneis just like I want to make
something, I can't find a recipethat I want to more or less
follow. So I just like lookacross a couple of different
recipes, actually did did thisrecently do with French onion
soup. So it's one of thosethings where I'll pull open a
couple of recipes, maybe I don'thave all all the ingredients.
But like, I'm going to look up acouple and just want to piece it

(20:54):
together. And it's going to begreat in it being really great
French onion soup. So that's mylike, that's my three attacks.
My three creative attacks, whenit goes to cooking, and I love
the process. I love sort ofplaying with things and messing
things up and having things endup unexpectedly great. One of
the first times I made cornbreadfor during quarantine, something

(21:17):
weird happened. And I stilldon't know what happened, but it
ended up sort of being like cornpudding. And it was delicious.
It was the best I've made. Solike sometimes mishaps end up
being a great success. And I'venever made more money, I have no
idea what I did,

my mother in law makes the best corn pudding,
she just throws a whole block ofcream cheese in there, oh snap,
and then bakes it. Okay, so I'mthe same, pretty much the same
as you actually you might besurprised to hear I've been real
into following recipes to thetee lately, because I have found
that I get kind of lazy aroundrecipes. And I'm like, Oh, I

(21:58):
don't need that little bit ofred onion garnish, or I don't
need certain things like alittle splash of apple cider
vinegar. So I've been reallyinto following recipes by the
tea, I got really inspired bythis cookbook by Amy Chaplin.
And I bought both of hercookbooks, I can't remember what
they're called. But if yougoogle them, they're both great.
And I've been following herrecipes to the tee and then I'll

(22:20):
modify from there. But I want totry it first, the true the true
way that it's called for. Andthen from there, I might get a
little bit creative and changeup some of the spices or change
up some of the elements of it.
And so I've been really enjoyingdoing that like almost in a
Julian Julia kind of way, whereshe's, you know, going through
the whole Julia Child's book andcooking it and blogging it. So I

(22:42):
love that. But the thing I'vebeen getting really into is
actually on those Monday nightdinners, or just the random
stuff, like how can I make it alittle bit more beautiful. So
this is probably my designer, Iis really into garnishing, I'm
putting little chopped red andyellow peppers on everything.

(23:02):
I'm buying lots of herbs andmaking sure to sprinkle that on
everything. And I've just beenreally into making everything
look good. And I've beenactually really inspired by Bree
Emery from design love fest. Idon't know if you've seen this
yet, Emily, she just launched awebsite called I Am presently
calm. And it's kind of likethat. What's it called? When are
you get hypnotized by peopledoing things ATMs are it's kind

(23:24):
of like a MSR where she'scooking, and you can hear the
real sounds. And she's reallyencouraging you to like, smell
the food as you're chopping it.
And I'm good getting into thetextures and the tastes and just
really being present withcooking. I've been really into
that lately. And just makingthings look beautiful on the

(23:47):
plate. That's been really funfor me lately. And that's been
part of my process for sure.

I love this. And so I love that we've taken sort
of a whole process and bothfocused on separate parts
because I think that's a thingtoo is we all enjoy different
parts of the creative process orin creating something we're all
going to sort of find. You findjoy in different parts of it.
And it's just like it's justdoing it. It's just doing and

(24:16):
that's sort of a key here iscreativity is about the journey,
not the destination. Like for memaking some shitty cornbread
like, yeah, that's gonna happen.
That's the destination. That'snot necessarily what I'm going
for. When I do love doing ismaking cornbread. Like getting
in there mixing things out,figuring things out, seeing
what's going to work on what'snot going to work, ensure. I'm
going after having a greatcornbread recipe one day that I

(24:39):
can just repeat. But I also justlove the process of it. I love
the fact that I have cornbreadthat you like every week I'm
going to leave quarantine sortof the shape of cornbread just
in general round and kind offlat and I'm not mad about it.

So I have one creative process exercise that I
want to share. And this is onethat I've been cultivating since
college. So I went to art schoollike fine art school and ended
up going down the graphic designroute. But a lot of what it is
to be creative is to be able toimagine what it is that you want
to create, and then using yourhands to make what you've

(25:22):
imagined real in the world. Andso I think of the little moniker
is that what is called moniker Imean, it's I am. So I am stands
for imagination, attention, andmemory. So these are the things
that you really need tocultivate your creative process.
whenever it comes to like thatraw creativity, you need to be

(25:44):
able to imagine what it is thatyou're wanting to make, you need
to give attention to what it isthat you're wanting to create.
So imagination for you, Emilywith cornbread would be I'm
imagining this perfect kind ofcornbread. And in your mind, you
kind of probably have a vaguesense of what that means you
probably have a vague sense oftexture, taste, flavor, density,

(26:06):
all the things you might notknow for sure. But you're
starting to imagine what itwould be like. And then
attention is the actual doing ofthe thing, you're giving it
attention. And then memory isthe last thing in this little
bit tricky. But coming back toyour recipe, you remember that
you put too much oil in it thatone time or you remember that,
you know, one tablespoon ofsugar was exactly right for your

(26:28):
corn bread recipe. So memory isdrawing on what you already
know. And I think that memory isthe trickiest word in the three
of these because it almost likeharkens to like what you
remember, all it really is likeor a specific time or event what
memory is, is drawing on whatyou already know. So it's

(26:49):
drawing on what you know, to betrue. So one exercise that you
can really do to start tocultivate imagination, because I
think that this part issometimes the hardest. And then
bridging that gap, you know,between imagining and then
actually making it do is what isdoing the work. You know, we
talked about doing the work allthe time, that's what the

(27:09):
attention part of it is. But theimagination if you're struggling
with that, a really goodexercise for this is to find a
flower, or some sort of objectin your house and sit in front
of it. Get real chill. Try tomemorize every single detail
about that flower, for example,then close your eyes and start

(27:30):
to paint a picture of thatflower in your mind. And you'll
start to remember how manypetals it has. And you'll start
to really think about the colorsthat it has. And at some point,
you're you're going to stopremembering what that flower
looked like. And you're you'llneed to open your eyes again and
look at the flower again. Andthen close your eyes again and
start to paint it and everytime, it will become a little

(27:53):
bit more vivid in your mind'seye. This is how you cultivate
your imagination is literally bypracticing almost your memory in
some ways. And from there, youcan start to close your eyes and
imagine new things. It doesn'thave to be the flower that
you're staring at. But thisreally helps cultivate that
practice of imagining what it isthat you want to see. So that

(28:14):
you can then create it with yourhands. So that's just the little
exercise to try.

I love that. I might try that with cornbread.

Yeah, for real, I would be curious to see
how it turns out. And Icertainly do this with projects
that are more art related likepaintings or textiles, but it
truly works with anything.

Hmm, that's a good that's like that's a good
meditation for anyone. It reallyis. Especially if you need help
getting back into your creativebrain. Oftentimes, I find
creative business ownerswhenever they like get too far
down the business where theyforget how to be creative. So
you just gave them a nice littletool to go back to cultivating
that quality in themselves. Iwant to talk a little bit about

(29:01):
the difference between long termcreative projects and short term
pre creative projects, because Ithink we all have different
capacities for each. And I thinkit's a good idea to at least
just have it in your mind thatthere's a difference between
cooking some core actually,there's a difference between
cooking cornbread one time andthen going into a multi week

(29:21):
process of perfecting acornbread recipe, for example.
Or there's you know, doing apainting versus growing a
garden, which is going to takeyears. And I think I think a
creative has multiple projectsgoing at a time or it can have
multiple projects going at atime. A couple of those are long

(29:42):
term and then occasionallyyou're filling the holes with
some short term things as well.
Yeah,

you know what, though, I think of my short term
projects as leading me again, tomy future self. And sometimes my
short term projects seem to helpplay into Do those long term
projects. So for me, I think ofmy long term project is maybe my
house, you know, I can't remodeleverything all at once. But

(30:08):
these short term projects, likemaking a cool flower
arrangement, really, it lends towhat it is that ultimately I
want my space to look and feellike, I'm learning how to
perfect or, you know, thecreating a recipe, just one
recipe cooking for the day, it,it really supports my long term

(30:29):
vision of this kaftan house, forexample. Um, so for me, the
short term projects arepracticing and playing into
those long term projects, Ithink, but maybe I also don't
have a ton. I mean, my house isdefinitely a long term project.
But there are little things Ican do along the way, like
replacing a light switch, or,you know, and it starts to add

(30:52):
up. So for me that it's kind ofone in the same really, an even
gardening, you know, you'redoing a little thing, you might
be weeding your garden everyweek. And you might be planting
a couple of new plants everyyear. And then 20 years down the
road, you have this beautifulcultivated garden, right, that
has been well established and isstarting to kind of run on its

(31:15):
own. And then from that garden,short term projects might pop
up, like you're harvesting someof your herbs to make some tea,
or you are cutting some flowersand creating a beautiful
arrangement. And you're growingvegetables and eating them. Like
I just think it's really funthinking about how your short
term projects play into yourlong term projects and vice
versa.

Right. But when, when, when, when do you have
time to do all of these thingslong term and short term? I
mean, we're both. We're bothbusy, we have lots of things
happening and lots things we'redoing, but we still make time
for it. So when is it that youare finding time to to do these?

(31:56):
Oh, like just so fulfillingcreative projects.

I do it I do them 15 minutes at a time, like
so for me, it feels a lot likewriting our book. You know, that
was not an easy thing to fit into our already busy, we were
running being boss full time, wewere both running our own
individual businesses full timeand then writing a book on top
of that was a part time job. SoI think that especially right

(32:22):
now, because we are inquarantine times, we're
homeschooling our kids, we'rerunning businesses, we're
navigating the end processingthe feelings of a really scary
time, you know, so all thosethings play into finding the
time to do things as well. Forme, I just take 15 minutes. So

(32:43):
piano, for example, I'm learninghow to play the piano, and I've
built it into a habit. So forme, it's always kind of finding
these triggers that trigger meinto the habit. So I'm
practicing piano every nightafter dinner, I make myself a
batch of dandelion tea, and Isit down with my tea at the
piano. And I just play piano for10 minutes, sometimes that 10

(33:06):
minutes turns into an hour. It'sthe same with a piece of fiber
art that I'm doing. And I keepfalling off the wagon with this
piece of fiber art that I'mcreating, because I don't have a
habitual time to do it. So forme, that's really the trick to
finding the time is to havethese triggers. One thing that
I'm doing right now with Foxbeing home from school, is we're
doing this thing we call walkthe yard every morning, I think

(33:29):
that Emily, you do this withDavid, let's

probably call it surveying the kingdom, surveying
the

kingdom. So every morning, we go outside and
we just walk around our gardenand around our property to see
what new growth is coming up.
And that's become a little bitof a habit. And I imagine that I
could start integratinggardening into that, you know,
and it just the little thingsadd up so much. And if you want
to learn about habitually usingsome of your creativity, I'm
obsessed with the book atomichabits. by James clear, it is

(33:55):
phenomenal whenever it comes toreally integrating your habits
into your identity. And thenalso starting really small.

What about what do you think? Yeah, for sure. I
also say we integrate a lot ofour creativity time and do
family time. So whenever itcomes to spending an evening
together, you know, we're notusually sitting down to TV and
said we're going to beach abouta bake a batch of cookies or on
the weekends. We're allgardening together as much as

(34:28):
possible. So we spend a lot ofour together time as creative
time. I also like to take sortof half days or a couple of
hours, once or twice a week todo kind of bigger projects. So
I've had some sewing projectswhen the things that I've been
doing during this quarantinetimes I love these cutie wee

(34:50):
acronym it no Probably not, is Ihad a closet full of sewing
projects that I'd kind of beencollecting over the past
probably year and a half or so.
And so I've been getting Thoseout and I'll spend, I'll take
two or three, two or three hourblocks of time over a weekend
and complete a project, or it'sthe things I'm doing sort of

(35:10):
after hours instead of like, andI want to say this too, in terms
of, you know, using yourcreativity to become the person
that you want to be. I got realreal with myself a couple of
years ago about how much time Iwas using, or how much time I
was spending on the television.
and was like, you know, do Iwant to be the kind of person

(35:33):
who is binged every show onNetflix? Or do I want to be the
kind of person who has, youknow, completed those curtains
for the guestroom and has, youknow, done all of these projects
that had kind of kept piling up.
And not to say that you can't doboth, but I can't do both. And I
don't want to do both. So I'vechosen, like, warranting time, I
think I've watched maybe I sitdown, I watched two episodes of
a show with David over the pastmonth. And that is, all of the

(35:55):
TV that I've watched, I wouldrather sort of sit down and cut
out my next pattern, or takethat half day and and plant my
next garden or plan my nextgarden or whatever it may be.
I've really chosen a life of alot of creativity. Because in
that's just priorities, andthat's something we've talked

(36:19):
about many times is I'veprioritized creativity.

Do you ever feel lazy though, like whenever
you talk about baking cookieswith Lily, Fox wants me to make
these art pancakes with them. Ihave just like, Oh, I want to
make that batter and thenseparate into bowls and then put
the dye which I'm not even sureabout what chemicals are in that
dye and then transfer it tolittle tubes so that we can make

(36:46):
art pancakes. It's nice. I feellazy about sometimes I would
rather just watch a show onNetflix.

Right? Um, yeah, sometimes I feel like I do want
to be lazy. I've also and thisis definitely partially a
product of quarantine times. ButI find my energy a little too
frantic right now to sit downand like and just watch TV like
my hands need to be moving. AndI felt like that for a really
long time. Actually, we'vetalked about this together

(37:14):
before. I also love to crossstitch, which we've talked
about, we've talked about sortof sending each other cross
stitch patterns, because crossis not the kind of thing that I
do for yourself. But like, assomeone said, You one you'll do
one. I find myself having areally hard time like just
settling down and watching TV. Ifeel better. I feel better when

(37:36):
I'm doing things. intricatethings like art pancakes, like
Yeah, I'd probably be like, youknow, What's also great just
pancakes.

I know. Our kids are also different ages. So
I think mine stone a little bitmore of that hands on.

Yeah, stage, for sure. For sure. I've actually
taught Lily to make chocolatechip cookies like all on her own
from start to finish. And so oneof the things I did this weekend
was I needed some some momentsalone. I was okay. How about you
go make some chocolate chipcookies. And sure enough, she
went in there made her ownbachelor chip cookies. And I was

(38:12):
like, This is what I was workingfor. Oh, you

know what, though, while we're speaking
about kids and creative process,because Fox has been home, I
took your advice and asked himlike What does he want to learn
more about? And he said art, sowe've been doing a lot of art.
And he's playing. He's learninghow to play piano. And I'm
really respecting his creativeprocess. So that's one thing
that you want to do is find outwhat your creative processes and

(38:38):
respect it so for him, he needsa specific kind of pen. He likes
drawing the Sharpie, a Crayolamarker will not do only go Hey,
got it. So I'm ordering moreSharpies. If he draws like one
shape on a white piece of paperand doesn't like it the papers
trash, which also hurts my soulbecause I'm like, No, just keep

(38:59):
drawing over it. And he's like,nope, and I'm like, Okay, I'm
gonna respect his process. Heneeds his tools. He has this
process, and really cultivatingthat in him. But one thing I
found is kind of allowing him tosuck through the process and get
upset and get disappointedbecause that's a normal way to
feel. And so, you know, our kidsare often our biggest teachers.

(39:20):
And I've learned a lot from himwatching him be creative as a
kid. And even piano like if hemakes one mistake. He's starting
that whole song over again,instead of just slogging through
the mistake and keeping going.
Whereas I like to just keepgoing if I make a mistake. So we
all have different processes andreally honoring that and kind of
not getting in your own way. Sofor Fox, I'm not getting in his
way. I'm letting him get upsetand I'm not going in and doing

(39:43):
it for him. I'm letting himlearn from his mistakes. That's
part of the creative process.
And so you have to remember thatfor yourself as well. Like don't
get in your own way. Becauseyou're getting frustrated with
the process. That's part of theprocess too.

I bet they're right about now you're probably
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Okay, I want to share a list that I found
from Austin kleon, who is anartist and a creative, he writes
lots of amazing books oncreativity that are really
digestible and bite size, Ihighly recommend him. But he had
this list from his new bookcalled How to Keep going, which
I think is especially relevantright now. And, and really

(40:50):
anytime, because not just rightnow, creatives always struggle
with finding the time or theenergy or the motivation to make
the thing this is common foreverybody at any time. But I
thought that his list wasespecially poignant right now.
And so I want to share it. Idon't know what he says or

(41:11):
writes about this list. I'm sureit's in his book, how to keep
going. But there are a fewthings here that are a little
bit more obvious. And I want toshare our spin on them and what
it means to us. So here's hislist one every day is Groundhog
Day. I think we can all relateto that right now. To build a
bliss station, I don't know whatthat means. But take from it

(41:31):
what you will. Three, forget thenoun, do the verb, this one I
highlighted because I think it'sso important. For a lot of us
creatives, if you've taken theCEO day kit, you've seen the
cycle of change. And they'resquare one square to square
three square four. This is atechnique that I learned from

(41:53):
Martha Beck about kind of thecreative process in a way. And
square two is doing a lot of theresearch for being creative. And
I think a lot of people getstuck in this square, they're
just watching the master classon cooking, rather than getting
in the kitchen and actuallycooking. They're watching

(42:13):
YouTube videos on differentpainting techniques instead of
actually painting. So this partof the process, it is important
to go ahead and research yourmaterials and start to that's
how you start to cultivate yourimagination. But you have to
actually get in there and startdoing in order to make. So I

(42:34):
really wanted to highlight thatpart.

And I want to go in here really quickly. I love
that you just brought up thechain cycle because I had a q&a
call with our community CEO daycamp members, like two days ago,
that was two days ago.

Does it feel like two weeks

Oh my God, I thought last week, easy two days
ago. And we actually talkedtalked about the train cycle and
discovered how a lot of a lot ofthem were feeling stuck in phase
two unable to move into phasethree. And I just think like
current things happening in theeconomy, businesses shutting
down all of those things, we arevery much so blocked from going

(43:13):
in terms of business, we'reblocked from going from
researching and to doing likewe're like forced to be in this
researching phase. But I dothink we do have the ability to
move through the entire processmany times over when it comes to
personal creativity. So if youare feeling blocked and stuck,
or whatever it is, when it comesto working on your business

(43:34):
stuff, put it away. Like this isnot the time to be doing most of
those things and get back tocreating for yourself. Because I
do think we do have a marvelousopportunity to move back and
forth between two and three asmany times as we'd like,
whenever it comes to personalcreativity.

Yeah, so we can move between doing the
research and learning more aboutit and then actually doing it.
And this brings me to somethingyou said in the last segment,
which is about completingsomething, I think it's so
important to complete littleprojects along the way because
that's how you're going to gainconfidence in your own
creativity is actually finishingsomething. I'm saying this for
myself more than anyone becauseI have this piece of fiber art

(44:14):
that I want to hang on my wall.
I've been working on it for 15minutes at a time for probably
four months now. Okay, the nextthing on his list is make gifts.
Then the next thing is theordinary plus extra attention
equals the extraordinary. I lovethis so much one of my own
personal mantras for a long timehas been to elevate the mundane.

(44:35):
I love taking little spaces andmaking them extra special. And
so for this, you know evenmaking that Monday night meal a
little bit more special by justa few garnishes that take an
extra five minutes. They werelike are setting the table is
also a great way to take themundane and make it a little

(44:56):
special. Right or you Yeah,exactly. Or even cleaning your
house or Lighting a candlebefore you start to work, you
know, little things, think abouthow you can just give little
ordinary things just a littleextra attention to make them
special. slay the art monsters.

(45:17):
Again, I don't know what thatmeans, but I love the way it
sounds. And Danielle chrissa,the jealous curator has a ton of
resources. whenever it comes tothis kind of concept in this
sort of thing. Next, you'reallowed to change your mind, I
always love a good change inyour mind. When in doubt, tidy

(45:37):
up, I highlighted this onebecause this past weekend I've
been doing, I think that you'vementioned this Emily on our
Instagram stories that any sortof sense of schedule, and
boundaries around your workschedule have been blown out of
the water, like you're justworking in different ways than
you ever have before. I'mworking nights and weekends. I'm

(46:00):
I my schedule is weird rightnow. And so I was working this
weekend. And then I just took athree hour break to tidy up my
house. And I felt so muchbetter. So I know that this
isn't a part of the creativeprocess, or even just tidying up
my laptop files, and gettingeverything off my desktop.
Because you know, I'm the kindof person that has 1800 browsers

(46:21):
open at the same time. So whenin doubt tidy up. And then the
next two are, I think that theykind of go together demons hate
fresh air, I have the truth, Ihave been feeling a little demon
sitting on my chest,

right, and so many little walks like I need to
go outside,

go outside, go outside. And then finally plant
your garden. And I literallyyou're planting your garden.
That's a creative project you'vebeen embarking on me to. And I
also think that this can relateto going back to that, who do
you want to be in 20 years, youcan start establishing that

(47:02):
garden now so that it hasincredible roots, and it's just
going on its own. And all you'vegot to do is just weed out the
bad stuff. So think about yourgarden in the beam boss book, we
talked about boundaries as agarden, he's a garden metaphor,
what is it that you want togrow? And what is it that's
going to be the pests or thepredators that are trying to

(47:25):
chew on your creativity and thethings that you want to
cultivate? How do you get themout of there. So plant your
garden. And so I love that listfrom Austin kleon maybe, you
know, future podcasts, maybewe'll get him on the show. But I
love sharing his work. And healways has great work. So that
list inspired me even justreading as a list. I hope it

(47:47):
inspires you all as well.

Yeah, I do want to touch I want to touch on this
plant your garden when reallyquickly because if the title of
this list is how to keep going,I think our culture has is so
like down with the what is itcalled? It's not like immediate
instant gratification. That'swhat's called, where like we do
something, we get instantgratification. Like why keep
going when we're not likeinvesting in something a little

(48:11):
more long term, right? I thinkwith planting a garden, you are
doing work now with a veryclear, like just human on Earth,
understanding that you're goingto plant some seeds now. And you
have to like hang out and keepshowing up for the next couple
of months for you to get whatyou're going for, basically. And

(48:32):
I think that that practiceinstills this deeper
understanding that instantgratification is not what we're
here for. We're here to dolittle bits of things now and
then continue showing up overthe long term and to get these
long term rewards. That are thethat's what keeping going is

(48:56):
made out of like we have to, wehave to invest long term in
things, to have the inspirationand the motivation to continue
going for whatever we're goingfor. So just throw that in
there. Extra insight.

The last thing I really want to talk about
whenever it comes to creativityis surround yourself with
creative people. And right nowthat might not be super easy
whenever it comes to in personrelationships. So I've been
following a few creatives. I'mobsessed with Christine
McConnell. Shame inspires mebeyond belief because she's not

(49:37):
only creative in how she works,she just takes it to the next
level like she piles creativityon top of her creativity. But
then also, she really modelsliterally models what it looks
like to be devoted and to getinto that flow state and to not

(49:57):
settle and to see See how thingsare gonna play out and not know
and to trust your vision. So shehas a YouTube account. Again,
her name is Christine McConnell.
She also has a Patreon. It's oneof the few Patreon that I
support. It's three bucks amonth for her extra videos. She
also has a Netflix show calledThe curious mind of Christine
McConnell, or that's what herYouTube is called. Anyway, if

(50:18):
you just look up ChristineMcConnell and flex, it'll pop
up.

Yes, I love her as well, I find her very
inspiring and even put onInstagram the other day that I
have found, I am finding herproductivity inspiring for my
productivity. So I'm literallylike putting her screen over on
the side of my screen watchingher just do crafts. And it keeps
me inspired to continue doing mywork because I am struggling

(50:45):
very hard with with beingproductive at work, but I'm
finding again, just watchingpeople be productive is helping
me be productive. So I thinkshe's really great. And then I
think we also both really lovethe book Big Magic by Elizabeth
Gilbert. So if anyone needs someinteresting insight into
creativity, new have not readthis book, yet it is a must read

(51:07):
for any and every creative onthe face of the planet.

She also has a 17 minute TED talk that kind of
wraps up everything that shetalks about in Big Magic, but
what I really like aboutElizabeth Gilbert is really
calling on something beyondyourself to let creativity move
through you. And for me, thatconcept has really helped me not
take it personal. And both goodand bad. Whenever I create
something that sucks. I'm like,Well, my genius didn't show up

(51:33):
for me today. And whenever Icreate something, that's great.
I can be like, okay, somethingmoved through me. And this isn't
just mine. So it helps me keepmy ego in check. And it helps me
call on almost like some magic,some big magic to make things do

for sure.
Alright, to wrap this up, I haveto ask how it is that you pick
your creative projects and whatyou're currently working on.

I mean, because I've wrapped up my
creative, I've wrapped up myidentity in being creative my
whole life. So I don't eventhink about what am I going to
pursue? For me, it's likebreathing, you know, I'm just
taking the next steps. And sofor me, there's probably always
a spark of an envision, like,what do I want this to look

(52:22):
like? And that's what helps memove forward on something.
Sometimes it's even jealousy.
Like, if I find myself beingjealous of something that
someone else has or is doing,I'm like, Oh, that's because I
want to be doing that or makingthat thing or have something
like that. So for me, likeinterior design is one of those
ones that I get a little bitjealous about. And then I think

(52:43):
well, I can do that too. I canthrow some paint on my wall, I
can pursue these things.
Interior Design is alsointeresting too, because it's a
longer term project. And sorry,I'm kind of going to divert
here, I'm going to go on alittle bit of a tangent, where
this is where the little thingsstart to add up to the big thing
where I can easily getoverwhelmed by how do I make my

(53:06):
whole house cohesive andbeautiful and have a common
theme. This is where you justhave to trust myself that making
one decision at a time that if Ilike this decision, I'm going to
trust that it's going to lead meinto a place that maybe is even
better than I imagined just bymaking one little decision at a
time. Um, and then again, likejust really looking at my inner

(53:30):
mentor and who is she? What doesshe want to be? What Is she good
at. And so learning how to playthe piano, writing, I've been
doing a lot of creative writinglately, fiber art painting, I
just want to be like arenaissance woman who's doing
all of the things which is alsofunny, actually going, going
back to the beginning of ourconversation, whenever it comes

(53:51):
to business, I like to be anexpert. I like to know exactly
what I'm doing. And I like to bebomb ass at it. And that's what
I've done for myself with designand branding. But whenever it
comes to creative projects, Ijust want to get messy and try
things out and it might not beperfect. And that's the beauty
of it. What about you?

Same Same thing with all of those things, I
would say just bring a littlemore a little more to it. Things
that I want or that like Idesire for myself, but I don't
necessarily want to go out andbuy them. So for example I
recently sold for myself or Ican't find them I recently sewed
for myself, a linen skirt likelike a buttoned down cute like

(54:35):
mid calf linen skirt. BecauseI've been looking for one for a
long time, haven't found what Iwant. So it was like you know
what, I'm just gonna make it. SoI made it. I bought some linen a
couple of months ago and satdown about two weeks ago and
finally made that skirt becauseI couldn't find what I wanted.
Or I also do things just likeseasonally. So like right now

(55:00):
And season like all of my notall of it, a lot of my
creativity is being poured intomy yard and my garden. So I'll
think about things veryseasonally. But same where I
just like to try new things. Ialso creative my entire life, I
have tons of creative littlecreative skill sets, whether
that's like, yeah, fiber art, orcrocheting or knitting, a

(55:24):
questionable knitter or crossstitching or sewing it my I had
a great aunt who taught me tosew, the first thing I ever
sewed was a dress like a wholedress for my little sister when
I was like eight. So I wastaught to so when I was really
young, I've made quilts before,like when it comes to and I love
to cook and we'll cook all kindsof crazy things. So for me, it's

(55:47):
just I like to dabble in each ofthose things sort of in turn to
like, I'm not going to spendlike six months sewing, David
and Lily would probably move outthey always get really scared
whenever I get the sewingmachine out. Because things
happen and it makes me angry.

Unknown (56:02):
Yeah, like the freakin threading the bobbin

Oh my god, or just like it gets stuck if it
gets stuck. And you know, thethread is always going to get
stuck like right when you're onlike a long haul of just so on a
straight line right in themiddle of it helping messes up,

you know, I have since being married to an
engineer, and I feel like hisskills would come in handy with
some of that stuff. To invest ina sewing machine again,

I whenever I got a new when a couple of years
ago, because I'd had one that Ibought, like in high school or
something that I let a friendborrow it had come back with
pieces missing, like the wholething, I bought myself a new
one. And I've used it severaltimes. But again, I'll go easily
a year without using it. Andlike sometimes that's just a
thing, I'll go a whole yearwithout sewing and then I'll
bring it out and throw a couplethings together and put it back

(56:51):
up for another six to 12 monthsor so it's not something that
I'm doing often, but I will go Igo through these like phases of
lying to So some things and nowthat we're sort of stuck at
home. So I sewed a skirt theother day, I have two pairs of
pants that are all cut out overthere on the bed waiting to be
sewn up and a shirt and a dress.
So I have a couple of things todo, which is really fun. I feel

(57:13):
like do. Every creative in theworld is so glad that they have
that craft closet right now. Youknow, like we're all going thank
God, I've been collecting thatpaper and markers like now I
have nothing to do and I don'tneed to go to the craft store to
do it. So I have been thinkingabout that. I'm very grateful

(57:34):
that I don't know I have alittle bit of a craft stash
because it has me so many thingsto do but sometimes to my kid
will support my creativeendeavors. So last year about
this time, and I saw some morestuff in there. I think we may
do it again in the summer.
Anyway, all of that to saythough, I like to dabble in all
kinds of things. And usuallyjust whatever I'm into at the

(57:57):
moment whenever I'm feeling sortof seasonally, but also, like,
you know, it's not everyday thatI need to live in skirt, but
here I am.

Well, I have had so much fun talking about
creativity, even just talkingabout it. I feel so inspired to
go do some more creative things.

Go finish that fiber art I need to

and Michaels is doing curbside pickup, so I
need some more fatty yarn.

Perfect.
Perfect. All right, yeah. And Ihope everyone sort of gets some
inspiration for creativity. Wedidn't even dive into
inspiration. That's a wholeother conversation. But I hope
everyone is feeling inspired tobe creative. And whether it's
because you have some extra timeon your hands, that you just
want to dive into something orjust working it into your
schedule more often again, wealways sort of punctuate the

(58:46):
need to practice business and tobe a business person. I think
that's very important. It is ourcareers. But we are also
innately creative. And I thinkwe should put a we should be
putting just as much a priorityon that creativity and not that
we all need more to dues on ourlist. But maybe we choose it
over other things that we havethat aren't as important or as

(59:07):
fulfilling because I do find itis one of my values. I
understand that I'm totallybiased. But I do find creativity
to be joyously fulfilling.

Yeah, and sorry, one more thing. I know
that that was like a nice boatwrap this up with but I'm seeing
a backlash against productivityon Instagram because I think
that some people are feelingright now like they need to be
productive during this time. Wehave an entire podcast episode
on rest. So if that's what youneed right now, definitely
listen to that episode, we'vedealt with burnout and not

(59:39):
feeling good and not feelinglike we can create. But I do
want to share that. Creativityhas been so paramount for my own
mental health. I definitely amchallenged by anxiety, big time.
So in some ways, it's kind ofinteresting to see the rest of
the world feeling the way that Ifeel like I've felt for the
past. Five years, whenever itcomes to anxiety, but like

(01:00:04):
literally sitting down andplaying the piano for 15 minutes
a day takes me out of my head.
I'm challenged, I'm learningsomething new. I'm sure the same
is true for you, Emily, wheneveryou're cooking or sewing
something, it just gets you outof your head a little bit and
into a new space. So don't eventhink of it as like you
producing something. Just getinto the process and think of it

(01:00:24):
as a way to get out of your ownhead and to get into your body
and into your hands. in a newway, it can be so healthy for
you, and really be a gamechanger whenever it comes to
your mood and your attitude, andyour perspective and outlook.

Emily Thompson (01:00:45):
Thanks for listening. And hey, if you want
more resources, we're talkingworksheets, free trainings in
person meetups and vacations andmore. Go to our website at www
dot beam boss dot club.

Kathleen Shannon (01:00:58):
Do the work the boss

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#230 - Being a Creative

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