February 14, 2023 • 31 mins
A cancer diagnosis is frightening. A terminal diagnosis can be absolutely paralyzing. But when Jane McLelland was diagnosed with a second aggressive cancer in 1999, classified as terminal, she did not freeze. Instead she dove headfirst into medical research because she knew she had nothing to lose.
Fast forward to 2021 and find out how Jane is trying to turn the world of oncology on its ear. She's not only overcome her diagnoses, but she is thriving and sharing her knowledge that she knows first hand has had a strong, positive impact on her health.
This episode will educate, inspire and encourage anyone who may be on a cancer journey today. Join me as Jane shares about repurposed/off-label drugs, her Metro Map protocol, the effects of "starving cancer" and so much more!
Connect with Jane on her website:
https://www.howtostarvecancer.com/contact/
Suggested Resource Links:
- BOOK: How To Starve Cancer
- LINK: PubMed
- Warburg Effect (National Library of Medicine, PubMed)
- Glossary of terms Jane references and more
- LINK: Metro Map Protocol (podcast)
- International Doctors familiar with Jane's Metro Map Protocol
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
The use of off-label drugs fortreating cancer is finally
gaining traction, yet our guesttoday, Jane McLellan discovered
it herself in 2003.
A little bit about Jane.
(00:54):
Jane is a long-term survivor ofstage four cancer.
She's a former charteredphysiotherapist, and Jane is an
award-winning author of How toStarve Cancer, in which
describes her journey throughcancer and her battle with
infertility.
She's best known for her metromap, a simple diagram of the
(01:14):
complexity of cancer metabolism,and for bringing the new
approach to the public.
Because of her efforts toeducate cancer patients since
2004, Jane was awarded AmazingWoman Global 2019 Lifetime
Achievement Award.
She also won the UK Health RadioAward in 2022 for cancer
(01:38):
services.
Such an honor, welcome Jane tothe show!
Jane McLelland (01:42):
Thanks so much for having me on.
Ivelisse Page (01:44):
So our listeners are always interested in
discovering what our guestsfavorite health tip is, and I
know you have many, but can youshare one with us?
Jane McLelland (01:52):
Gosh there, there are a lot, but I think if
you're trying to, prevent canceror if you're trying to treat
cancer looking after your gut,it's not something I talk about
an awful lot in my book, butactually looking after your gut
is something which I do stressas particularly for prevention
as well.
There's a lot of evidence tosuggest leaky gut actually
(02:12):
causes pathogens to get into thewhole system.
So we need to be really lookingafter our gut really well.
So lots of probiotics and kefirand things like that.
If you are, trying to preventcancer, I think that's really
critically important.
And you can get non-dairy kefirtype things as well, made from
coconut and things like that aswell.
So I think it's really importantto be looking after your gut all
(02:35):
the way through your life.
It is something I'm not alwaysbrilliant at.
I have to remind myself to getback on the program.
And bifidobacteria inparticular, I think for cancer
are really important.
And if you haven't got enoughlevels, I think an occasional
boost is quite useful as well.
Ivelisse Page (02:51):
Yeah, I completely agree.
And I think it's a area that alot of people don't realize and
the importance, especially withthe food quality, at least here
in the United States, it's a lotbetter there in the UK where you
are, but.
Jane McLelland (03:03):
I don't think so.
Ivelisse Page (03:04):
No, okay.
Jane McLelland (03:05):
I don't think we have as many GMO crops as you
do, but, I think we actually wecan get a lot more organic stuff
from Europe as well, but I thinkour standards are not as high as
I would like.
Ivelisse Page (03:16):
Yes, for all of us.
So hopefully we'll change someof that as well.
You mentioned in your book thatduring your cancer journey you
became a Cancer PubMed SherlockHolmes.
I love that.
You discovered that research wasfocused primarily on the
activities of genes in cancer,but what made you curious was
the rest of the tumor, like thegrowth factors it used to fuel
(03:38):
and et cetera.
So can you share a little bitabout that?
Jane McLelland (03:42):
Yeah, so I obviously learned a little bit
about Otto Warburg when I wasgoing through my journey, but
there wasn't an awful lot, itwas very hard to actually
research back in my day becausethe internet was still fledgling
and, it was very hard unless Iactually went into hospitals or
I looked through the journals orI got lots of magazines on stuff
(04:02):
as well.
It was really quite a journeyback then, and I was lucky to
actually stumble across some ofthe stuff that I did and get the
off-label drugs that I could seeenormous potential for.
And I was, again, very lucky toactually have a doctor who was
willing to prescribe them.
But as things have evolved andPubMed became more available
(04:24):
online, I, I, even this day Iread probably four or five
articles on PubMed every day
Ivelisse Page (04:31):
That's fantastic.
Jane McLelland (04:32):
And I'm constantly trying to see where
things are going.
The, whole area of metabolismand cancer is moving a lot every
day.
So it's really important to tryand stay on top of it.
I have many Google searches forall sorts of things on my
computer, so I'm constantlyflagging up things that I want
to have a little look.
You dive down into these littlerabbit holes sometimes and then
(04:55):
you come out somewherecompletely different.
But it's a journey of discoveryand I actually quite enjoy it,
and I like to find answers.
I'm always sure there's ananswer to something somewhere.
If you're at weird growthfactors, or I know that there's
probably an off-label drug or asupplement that will probably do
something against thatparticular pathway.
(05:17):
So I'm constantly delvingaround, digging around, trying
to find answers.
And I find it a challenge and Ilike it actually.
Ivelisse Page (05:24):
So good.
And for those who are listeningwho are unfamiliar with the use
of off-label drugs or repurposeddrugs for cancer, what does that
mean?
What is the definition of arepurposed drug and how does
that differ from traditionalcancer treatments?
Jane McLelland (05:38):
Okay, so off-label means that drugs are
given certain indications whenthey're approved by the FDA or
the M H R A.
in the UK, they are approved fora particular condition.
So Metformin, for example, isapproved for diabetes.
Now it's off-label uses are nowfor cancer, although it's not
actually approved for cancer.
So unfortunately, because it'snot an approved drug, it's not
(06:02):
generally given.
So it's off-label.
Repurpose means just repurposinga drug for a new area of
research.
There are an awful lot of drugsbeing looked at to be repurposed
for cancer treatment.
Ivelisse Page (06:16):
Yeah.
One that I discovered, mybrother-in-law actually shared
with me as research he was doingwhen I was going through my
cancer journey with colon cancerwas Cimetidine.
And he found a study that theysaid that patients who took 400
milligrams in the morning and atnight before surgery and a year
after had an 86% survival versus33%, and that study was just
(06:40):
like alarming to me, and I knowit's the H2 blocker and things
like that in there, but it'sthings like that, that patients
aren't aware of that can reallyhelp.
Jane McLelland (06:48):
I actually use some Cimetidine myself as well,
actually.
So once I'd recovered fromcancer, I didn't know that I had
cystic fibrosis, that my immunesystem, I thought it was just my
immune system was completelybroken from the chemo, and I
constantly kept on gettinginfection after infection and
lung problems.
And I always thought it was downto a rubbish immune system.
(07:09):
And I think that was part of theproblem.
And in fact, I tested my immunesystem and it was something
known as TH-2 dominant ratherthan TH-1.
Those are your natural, TH-1 isyour cancer killing zone,
whereas TH-2 is more sort ofallergic type of humoral
response in the cells.
And I needed to reverse thatbalance, and that's where I use
(07:29):
Cimetidine and I use exactly thesame dose.
Actually, I use 400 morning andevening in order to reverse the
TH-2 back to a TH-1 dominance inorder to give me a bit more
natural killer cells and generalcells that would actually fight
infection.
Cuz I, I suffered for many yearsactually, not knowing that I had
(07:50):
cystic fibrosis, which was onlydiscovered a few months before
Covid struck.
So I was in a bit of a state atthat point.
Cause I wasn't given any drugsto cope with it or anything.
But actually in September thatyear, of 2020, they came out or
they were allowing my particulargenetic mutations, which were
not your normal cystic fibrosismutations, but they approved the
(08:10):
drugs for cystic fibrosis for mygenetic mutations.
Bingo.
Wow.
That just massive change.
Ivelisse Page (08:16):
That's incredible.
That's incredible.
And for people who don't knowCimetidine is the common name
for Prevacid which is used oftenfor heartburn.
Jane McLelland (08:26):
And there's another Tagamet.
Ivelisse Page (08:27):
Yes, Tagamet is another one.
So can you also explain thebasic principles of your starved
cancer approach and how it worksto limit cell growth?
Jane McLelland (08:36):
A basic thing to understand is that cancer cells
are always hungry.
They have this massive appetitefor food.
Because they're constantlydividing, they constantly need
to create new macro molecules tomake their daughter cells.
So they need the dna, they needthe organelles, they need the
cell membranes.
So they need to make a lot ofprotein.
They need to make new fat.
(08:57):
So that's all part of it.
And that's driven by glucose isgenerally the fuel in order to
create the process of makingthese new proteins and fats.
And what happens is cancerbreaks down glucose, it breaks
down glutamine to actually fuel,and sometimes it breaks down fat
as well in order to make the newcells.
(09:17):
So my approach is actually tonot just some of the glucose,
but actually to look at blockingglutamine and fat pathways as
well.
So I created this triangle, mymetro map, which effectively
just goes through the keymetabolic pathways that cancer
uses to fuel itself.
And the way I describe it isthat if you block one pathway,
cancer is very clever.
(09:38):
It just uses another one.
But you've got to work out whatthose synergistic pathways are
in order to really get the besteffect.
And that's something we're stilllooking at the synergistic
blocking of pathways.
But certainly one is the normalOXPHOS or oxidative
phosphorylation, which is thenormal process of making ATP,
which is the currency of energy.
(10:00):
Cancer cells use a differentprocess called glycolysis, but
if you block the glycolysis, itjust uses more OXPHOS, vice
versa, if you block the OXPHOS,it uses more glycolysis.
So you've actually got to workat blocking both together.
And most people don't know thatcancer cells consume and
actually use an awful lot ofglutamine as part of their
process of making energy.
Ivelisse Page (10:22):
Interesting.
Is that used for all cancers ordo you find that some cancers
you have, more of one...
Jane McLelland (10:29):
You've even got some cancers that are very
arginine, which is another aminoacid driven like sarcomas, and
liver cancers are very argininedriven and some brain cancers
are very arginine driven.
There's a doctor who works downthe road here at the Hammersmith
Hospital.
She uses a special drug andshe's getting fantastic results
just starving glutamine withthis new drug, and I just hope
(10:51):
I'm actually, I had a sarcomapatient on the phone this
morning.
I'm thinking, maybe we can usethat for her as well, because
it's blocking the arginine,which is the key fuel for
sarcomas.
It is very hard for doctors tojustify something sometimes to
allow somebody to have somethingon a compassionate use.
She's stage four sarcoma, she'sonly in her early thirties and
(11:12):
she needs some help.
What do you do?
Ivelisse Page (11:14):
That's incredible.
And we will put links in ourshow notes to your metro map
link on how to contact you.
And I know you have a list ofpractitioners that have learned
your approach that kind ofincorporate it into their
integrative oncology that theywork with their patients on.
So we will make sure to put thaton there.
(11:34):
Can you give some other examplesof repurposed drugs that have
been used in cancer treatmentand how they had limited cell
growth?
Jane McLelland (11:41):
So my cocktail, just give you my personal
cocktail and what worked for me.
Initially I used Berberine,which is a natural form of
Metformin, but later on I diduse Metformin as well.
That was part of my cocktail.
They're both very good fortreating diabetes and then I use
Lovastatin.
It's quite hard to get hold ofLovastatin these days.
(12:01):
Most people either useSimvastatin or Atorvastatin and
those statins are fat loving,very important to get fat loving
statins.
These generally lowercholesterol.
They also have biganti-inflammatory effects and
actually synergize really wellwith some non-steroidal
anti-inflammatories.
And the one that I chose wasEtodolac.
(12:22):
The combination of the statintogether with the Etodolac make
them five times more effectiveat killing cancer cells than
individually.
Statins on their own don't workvery well, Metformin on its own
doesn't work very well, thenon-steroidal on its own, and
suddenly you get this synergy byadding these things together
because they're targetingdifferent things and you get
this exponential blocking ofwhat you're trying to do.
(12:45):
So those are the three things.
And then I added Dipyridamole,which is an old platelet,
antiplatelet drug.
So it doesn't actually destroyyour platelets.
What it does is stops themsticking together.
That allows your bloodcirculation to flow through
properly.
It doesn't allow the cancercells to stick down into little
metastatic niches, so it helpsto keep the whole thing flowing.
(13:06):
And actually temporarily I usedaspirin.
I didn't use aspirin and theEtodolac together, but I did use
aspirin and Dipyridamoletogether to begin with until I
swapped over to using Etodolac.
But the Dipyridamole workssynergistically with the statin.
They both work on blockingcholesterol pathways.
Like I said, with the OXPHOS andthe glycolysis is the same with
(13:28):
these two cholesterol pathways.
If you block one, it'll just usethe other one.
So same thing, you're justblocking two synergistic
pathways.
And that's what I was doing.
I was stopping the formation ofcholesterol, which are important
little blobs that every singlecancer cell has on the surface.
So it's just slowing down theability for it to make those new
(13:49):
cell membranes.
Ivelisse Page (13:50):
That's incredible.
And I love that you said it's asynergistic effect, and you know
a big part of therapy as well asmistletoe therapy.
And people just say, oh, I justneed some mistletoe and that'll
cure my cancer.
And it's never just one thing.
And I love that you are workingdifferent pathways.
You're synergistically workingwith many different aspects, not
only these repurposed drugs orsupplements and mistletoe
(14:13):
therapy, whatever it may be.
But what are some otherpractical tips for incorporating
the starved cancer approach fromyour book into a person's cancer
treatment plan besides,repurposed drugs?
Jane McLelland (14:24):
I've got four pillars really of starving the
cancer.
First one is your diet, and itdoesn't have to be completely
starving yourself.
The whole point is that you areusing these other things to back
up what you're trying to do soyou don't have to go on a
completely starving.
Some people do fast.
There are many ways to do it,intermittent fasting.
You can just have a low GI plusactually you, you have to have a
(14:46):
fairly low protein diet.
Ketogenic diet can be useful,but some people get resistant to
that.
It can lead to resistance afterabout 30 days.
Again, you've got this problemwhere it's starting to use
different pathways.
Diet is a big one.
Supplements, I used a heck of alot of supplements.
I was throwing an awful lot atmyself because I didn't know
enough about what was gonnawork.
(15:08):
But when I found somethinginteresting in the literature
into my routine it would go.
So those supplements is thesecond thing.
Exercise is obviously very goodfor starving the cancer.
And, there are many ways thatexercise will help.
Aerobic exercise will actuallyoxygenate the tissue, but
actually weightlifting, doingsome weightlifting will actually
starve the cancer even moreeffectively actually than the
(15:31):
aerobic stuff.
There are different ways thatexercise actually works on
cancer.
And in fact, I do recommend thatpeople exercise after they've
had a meal.
They don't have to do great bigaerobic exercise after a meal,
but they need to do enough justto curb that insulin spike and
glucose spike that you get aftera meal.
So you just keep everything abit lower so that can't, that
doesn't feed the cancer in quitethe same way.
Ivelisse Page (15:54):
I love that.
So you have diet, supplements,exercise, and what's your last
pillar
Jane McLelland (15:58):
Then you have label, off-label drugs as well.
Ivelisse Page (16:00):
Off-label drugs.
Okay.
And That's why it's reallyimportant to also know what's
best for you as an individual,whether it's your diet or
exercising, intermittentfasting.
And we have a lot ofpractitioners that help you to
determine what is best for you.
And I know a lot of them use itbefore their traditional
treatments, if they're pursuingthat pathway.
Cuz it will help the treatmentsto work better and also get rid
(16:21):
of the toxins faster out of yourbody.
And then exercise, I know thatwas a difficult one for me when
I was in the middle of myjourney cause I was so weak.
But even just a walk.
yeah.
Or even just sitting withlightweights, and just lifting
some lightweights while you'resitting watching a show or
listening to music or reading.
There are many ways, I love thatyou mentioned, to incorporate
those things for your betterhealth.
Jane McLelland (16:43):
This is particularly important I think
actually if you've got cachexia,which is the wasting syndrome
that you can get sometimes withcancer when it's starting to do
this salvage autophagy, it'sactually eating away at you and
munching up parts of your muscleand your fat.
This is where exercise canreally help as well.
And there are some supplementsthat will help improve cachexia.
(17:05):
But you have to take them beforeyou exercise again.
You don't want the amino acidsto go to feeding the cancer.
You want it to go to building upyour muscle, so it's important
to take it at the right time.
And cachexia is, I'm probablygonna do a blog on that fairly
soon actually and put that inthe newsletter.
I think it's important.
It kills quite a lot of peoplejust wasting away rather than
(17:25):
the actual cancer itself.
And you have to be incrediblycareful about your diet when
it's cachexia as well.
Ivelisse Page (17:32):
Can you explain to people what cachexia is?
Jane McLelland (17:34):
There are several reasons that cachexia
happens.
One of the problems that you getwith cancer is this
inflammation, and this causescertain changes in the cancer
metabolism.
Cancer also has these littletiny microvesicles that it sheds
off things called exosomes.
I dunno whether you've heard ofthose before.
Ivelisse Page (17:53):
Yes.
Jane McLelland (17:53):
And these shed off and they take micro RNA and
take all sorts of otherinstructions, and it takes some
other particles as well to tellyour muscles and your fat zones
to break down, and then thatgets put into the circulation to
feed the tumor.
So it's actually a parasitethat's eating away at you, and
(18:14):
it's that the cancer is actuallyinstructing the body to break
down, to feed itself, and youget this wasting of your muscles
and your fat zones.
When I had cancer, I noticed myinner thighs were thinner than
they'd ever been before.
And I knew it was unusual, andthat was before I was diagnosed.
I thought, wow, gosh, I havebeen exercising better than I
(18:36):
normally do, and I couldn'tunderstand.
But actually I was misdiagnosedfor an awfully long time.
Yeah, I definitely had somecachexia changes going on even
when I was first diagnosed backin 1994.
Ivelisse Page (18:47):
Can you share a brief little bit about your
story for those who haven'theard your story of overcoming
cervical cancer?
Correct?
Stage four?
Jane McLelland (18:55):
In a nutshell, I, I was diagnosed in 94 with
cervical cancer that spread tomy lungs in 99.
So it became stage four As aresult of all the treatments
that I had, the high dose chemo,they told me that they'll
probably kill me with thesetreatments because they
overdosed me so much on all ofthat because they didn't think I
was gonna survive anyway.
(19:15):
But that then gave me bonemarrow cancer, which actually is
another really serious illnessto try and overcome as well.
And it was at that point that Iknew I was controlling one
cancer because my normal cancermarkers for cervical cancer were
okay.
They were still in the normalrange, but these other markers
uh, which showed theseglycolytic changes and various
(19:37):
other things going on with theleukemia were way off the
charts.
So I had to change what I wasdoing.
I thought, okay so the naturalapproaches, the intravenous
vitamin C, all the other thingsthat I was doing, I never tried
mistletoe.
I, couldn't get hold of it backthen, but I certainly looked
into it and, then I decided toinvestigate these off-label
(19:58):
drugs as well.
I thought, well, I've gotnothing to lose here.
I knew I only had a few weeks tolive, unless I actually did
something fairly radical.
I had an understanding doctor,both my oncologist at the time
actually.
I had some wonderful integrativeoncologists that I was working
with as well.
And I got this little cocktailprescribed, checked, I got'em
from different people and then Ichecked that it was okay to add
(20:20):
them all together.
Eventually I got this littlecocktail together, threw it all
together and seven months later,markers were fine and no trace
of cancer.
Thank God.
And I never got any sideeffects.
I didn't even feel like I was ontreatment.
And that was the funny thing wasyou normally feel really
terrible, awful sick, reallyshoddy when you're having
(20:42):
treatment, but actually I didn'treally feel like I was ill at
all or really suffering duringthat time.
Ivelisse Page (20:47):
And that's something that is so important,
and I think that if anythingelse, whether it's mistletoe or
repurposed drugs that help youto go through something so
difficult with a great qualityof life is huge.
Not only for the patient, butfor their loved ones that are
seeing them suffer.
And I know that God spared yourlife for a huge reason to be
able to educate and help so manyothers in these last years that
(21:10):
we've had learning about thisfrom you, and I know you have
lots of stories from patientsthat have also been, you're not
the only one, even though youwere the first test case.
You're not the only one that hasbenefited.
Do you have a story that standsout to you that you can share
briefly about someone else whokind of followed your metro map
or repurposed drugs?
Jane McLelland (21:31):
I talk about two in my online course.
I've got a lady, she was her2positive, really bad stage four,
but she went to the SeattleIntegrative people.
She did my protocol and then shegot into remission.
She's doing really well.
And then it came back again and,I said, are you sure you've
blocked all the right pathways?
And we had a look, and shehadn't blocked the salvage
(21:53):
autophagy pathway.
And this is one of the thingsthat cancer learns to use, maybe
sometimes later on.
And I said, block that one aswell.
We added that one into herprotocol and bingo, she went
back into remission again.
So I love that the fact thatshe'd done really well.
She got herself into remissionand in fact now she's still,
(22:14):
she's going strong.
This is years later.
She is now off all traditionalmeds.
She's not had any moretraditional meds.
I'm not even sure she's eventaking the off label drugs
anymore.
I think she's pretty muchcarrying on as a normal person
would gone back to work and isfine.
The other one I discuss in mycourse is this gentleman who had
prostate cancer.
His PSA was 1,007, and thereason for that was that he'd
(22:38):
been having glutathione, whichwas fueling his cancer.
I'm very wary about peopletaking glutathione, because it
bleeds to resistance.
It's a major antioxidant and youactually need to create some
free radicals, which kind ofpro-oxidants the opposite.
And he had got to 1,007.
He was in a wheelchair and itwas a disaster.
(23:00):
Spinal mets everywhere,paralyzed, partly paralyzed.
And he did my protocol and gotback down to his PSA is under
one, and he's back water skiing,having a fantastic time.
Lives in Hawaii.
Ivelisse Page (23:13):
Incredible.
And you mentioned somethingabout asking different
physicians that you had toprescribe one or the other and
other things.
And there I just wanted to sharethat there are integrative
oncologists out there and evenoncologists who are willing to
help monitor you and work withyou.
You just have to find the rightones.
I know for myself, once I wastwo years out, I asked him, hey
(23:34):
I'm taking Cimetidine, I'mtaking all these things.
Is there anything I should drop?
And in your opinion, and helooked at me and he's like, do
not change a thing.
Jane McLelland (23:43):
Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
Ivelisse Page (23:45):
Yes, don't change a thing.
It's working.
And I think I probably stoppedthe Cimetidine four years after
I was clear and I eased off ofthat.
And I haven't been on it, butwhat advice do you have for
individuals interested inincorporating this approach of
starving cancer into theircancer management plan?
Jane McLelland (24:02):
Not to get overwhelmed, all right.
If they read my book the keything is not to get overwhelmed,
try and get themselves in withone of the doctors if they can.
And, they will get them on abasic program.
And then from there, I guidepeople.
People read my book many times.
I do have an online course aswell, which makes things much
simpler for people tounderstand, and I go more into
(24:24):
specific pathways of whichsupplements, which drugs work
specifically more for differentcancers.
And I think people find thatincredibly useful.
But I think the main thing is tostart somewhere.
Some people read the book andthen they don't really get that
they actually need to startdoing something.
You're not going to overcomecancer if you've got stage four
just with the traditionaltreatments, very unlikely.
(24:46):
Even the new immunotherapies,they don't work as well as
they'd like us to imagine theydo.
But incorporating some of theseoff-label drugs can be
incredibly useful.
They're now doing a trial fortriple negative breast cancer
using a new immunotherapy withIvermectin because that boosts
the tumor to make it instead ofbeing cold, it makes it hot.
That means infiltratinglymphocytes can get into it, and
(25:09):
that's what Ivermectin does.
It actually increases the amountof immune cells you actually get
in the tumor.
So there are many different waysto incorporate lots of different
off-label drugs into yourprotocol and I think the big
thing is to work out, if you'rehaving chemo, there might be
slightly different protocol toif you're having immunotherapy
to if you're having a targeteddrug, there are certain targeted
(25:31):
drugs like osimertinib, whichyou have to take HDAC inhibitors
at the same time.
You don't need to know whatthose are necessary right now,
but they are things likeHydroxybutyrate, but the
butyrate kind of thing.
So sodiumbutyrate andbetahydroxybutyrate, which is a
ketone, can actually help toblock those.
Those are the kind of things youneed to know and try and work
(25:51):
out your conventional treatment.
Cause I'm not againstconventional treatments at all.
I think we just need to makethem work better.
At the moment, the cocktailsaren't there.
They're not targeting themetabolism of the cancer stem
cells as well as, the fastdividing cells are also quite
happily mutating.
And you need to be able to stopall of that happening in various
(26:12):
different ways and attacking themetabolism.
Stopping the metabolism actuallystops the cancer from mutating
and finding a way around thosetreatments and becoming
resistant.
So it's all about making thetreatments the normal
conventional treatments that youhave, more effective.
I'm definitely not alternative.
I'm most definitelycomplimentary.
Ivelisse Page (26:32):
Yes, myself as well.
And I think too, what a lot ofpeople don't realize is that
traditional treatments likechemotherapy and radiation, they
don't kill the stem cells.
And that's why we have such ahigh recurrence rate because
people go back, they said, oh,I'm cancer free, no evidence of
disease.
And they go back one to theirold routines, or even if they
(26:54):
didn't, they're not addressingthose stem cells and it will
come back.
So it's really wise toincorporate the things that
you're sharing to stop thosepathways from rearing their ugly
heads again.
Jane McLelland (27:05):
The cancer stem cells are so few, it's one per
10,000 of the cancer tumor cellsare actually the cancer stem
cells.
But they are the tricky onesthat really need to be stopped.
So it can look like you got ridof a tumor on a scan, but
actually, these little peskystem cells can really cause an
awful lot of trouble later on ifyou don't stop those too.
Ivelisse Page (27:27):
Yes.
And so in closing, how do yousee the repurposed drugs used in
cancer treatment evolving in thefuture?
What potential advancements areyou most excited about?
Jane McLelland (27:37):
I have a big chapter on ferroptosis at the
end of my second edition, and Iknow that is the future.
It's a hot topic in research.
It hasn't really made its waydown to the bench, bedside yet,
not in a big way, but I have gota few doctors doing it and
getting fantastic results.
Ivelisse Page (27:57):
And what is that?
Explain what that is real quick.
Jane McLelland (27:59):
Okay.
Very quickly, so cancer lovesiron.
It has this massive appetite foriron.
So you actually oxidize the ironin the cancer cells and that
destroys the cell membranes.
Something called peroxidase,it's just a sort of a
destruction of the cell membraneitself and that destroys the
cancer cell.
Totally different way of causingcell death.
(28:21):
Apoptosis is the normal celldeath mechanism, but this is a
slight variation on that, andyou can use various things.
There are many resistancepathways involved, so I do have
a list of supplements and a listof drugs that try and target all
of those different things at thesame time.
Again, it's got to be a cocktailthat works.
Intravenous vitamin C is part ofit, but it doesn't work on its
(28:44):
own.
That's why a lot of people haveintravenous vitamin C because
that creates hydrogen peroxide.
That's the oxygen that you needto trigger this oxidation of the
iron.
But you need to have it incombination with some other
stuff.
Doing intravenous Vitamin C onits own doesn't work.
Artemisinin is obviously animportant thing to have, but
(29:06):
there are many other things youneed in order to block all the
different resistance pathways.
Coq 10 is actually somethingthat's going to stop
ferroptosis.
So actually statins are reallycritical cause they help to
lower that antioxidant so youcan create the ferroptosis much
easier.
Ivelisse Page (29:24):
Incredible.
So you think that's the future?
Jane McLelland (29:27):
I think that will work alongside
immunotherapy and I thinkactually getting immunotherapies
to work better is that currentlythe future.
Everybody's gone from looking atchemotherapy, then they went
into angiogenesis inhibitors,and then they've now gone
immunotherapies.
But certainly immunotherapiescan be very helpful, but they
need to be made more effective.
And actually ferroptosis willwork alongside immunotherapies
(29:50):
as well.
I've actually had mistletoe,because it's helping the immune
system, really hugelybeneficial.
And, I think this is the waywe're going is, trying to get
the immune system to switch backon and actually beat the cancer.
But you've gotta block some ofthe reasons why the
immunotherapies don't work isbecause of the metabolic
problems going on in the cells.
So if you block those first, theimmunotherapies are gonna work
(30:12):
much better.
So it's always a synergy ofdifferent things, and it's
getting people to understandthat you've got to stop things
like the glucose will actuallyblocking glycolysis, that huge
element where the cancerferments the sugar will help
immunotherapy to work better.
So it's always many factorscoming into play here in order
(30:32):
to get a better result.
And that's what I want people toknow.
It's always combination.
That's my big thing.
I say it so many times.
It's always a combination ofthings that works.
Ivelisse Page (30:41):
Yes.
thank you Jane so much.
You are a huge knowledge ofinformation and learned so much
today.
And I know that those who arelistening really appreciate your
insight.
And again, we will put your linkto your book and to the roadmap
and your resources in the shownotes so that people who are
interested can dig deeper andbecome their own Sherlock Holmes
(31:03):
of their cancer as well.
So thank you for joining us.
Jane McLelland (31:07):
Thanks so much Ivelisse.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support our
podcast, please subscribe andshare it with others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
(31:27):
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
The use of off-label drugs fortreating cancer is finally
gaining traction, yet our guesttoday, Jane McLellan discovered
it herself in 2003.
A little bit about Jane.
(00:54):
Jane is a long-term survivor ofstage four cancer.
She's a former charteredphysiotherapist, and Jane is an
award-winning author of How toStarve Cancer, in which
describes her journey throughcancer and her battle with
infertility.
She's best known for her metromap, a simple diagram of the
(01:14):
complexity of cancer metabolism,and for bringing the new
approach to the public.
Because of her efforts toeducate cancer patients since
2004, Jane was awarded AmazingWoman Global 2019 Lifetime
Achievement Award.
She also won the UK Health RadioAward in 2022 for cancer
(01:38):
services.
Such an honor, welcome Jane tothe show!
Jane McLelland (01:42):
Thanks so much for having me on.
Ivelisse Page (01:44):
So our listeners are always interested in
discovering what our guestsfavorite health tip is, and I
know you have many, but can youshare one with us?
Jane McLelland (01:52):
Gosh there, there are a lot, but I think if
you're trying to, prevent canceror if you're trying to treat
cancer looking after your gut,it's not something I talk about
an awful lot in my book, butactually looking after your gut
is something which I do stressas particularly for prevention
as well.
There's a lot of evidence tosuggest leaky gut actually
(02:12):
causes pathogens to get into thewhole system.
So we need to be really lookingafter our gut really well.
So lots of probiotics and kefirand things like that.
If you are, trying to preventcancer, I think that's really
critically important.
And you can get non-dairy kefirtype things as well, made from
coconut and things like that aswell.
So I think it's really importantto be looking after your gut all
(02:35):
the way through your life.
It is something I'm not alwaysbrilliant at.
I have to remind myself to getback on the program.
And bifidobacteria inparticular, I think for cancer
are really important.
And if you haven't got enoughlevels, I think an occasional
boost is quite useful as well.
Ivelisse Page (02:51):
Yeah, I completely agree.
And I think it's a area that alot of people don't realize and
the importance, especially withthe food quality, at least here
in the United States, it's a lotbetter there in the UK where you
are, but.
Jane McLelland (03:03):
I don't think so.
Ivelisse Page (03:04):
No, okay.
Jane McLelland (03:05):
I don't think we have as many GMO crops as you
do, but, I think we actually wecan get a lot more organic stuff
from Europe as well, but I thinkour standards are not as high as
I would like.
Ivelisse Page (03:16):
Yes, for all of us.
So hopefully we'll change someof that as well.
You mentioned in your book thatduring your cancer journey you
became a Cancer PubMed SherlockHolmes.
I love that.
You discovered that research wasfocused primarily on the
activities of genes in cancer,but what made you curious was
the rest of the tumor, like thegrowth factors it used to fuel
(03:38):
and et cetera.
So can you share a little bitabout that?
Jane McLelland (03:42):
Yeah, so I obviously learned a little bit
about Otto Warburg when I wasgoing through my journey, but
there wasn't an awful lot, itwas very hard to actually
research back in my day becausethe internet was still fledgling
and, it was very hard unless Iactually went into hospitals or
I looked through the journals orI got lots of magazines on stuff
(04:02):
as well.
It was really quite a journeyback then, and I was lucky to
actually stumble across some ofthe stuff that I did and get the
off-label drugs that I could seeenormous potential for.
And I was, again, very lucky toactually have a doctor who was
willing to prescribe them.
But as things have evolved andPubMed became more available
(04:24):
online, I, I, even this day Iread probably four or five
articles on PubMed every day
Ivelisse Page (04:31):
That's fantastic.
Jane McLelland (04:32):
And I'm constantly trying to see where
things are going.
The, whole area of metabolismand cancer is moving a lot every
day.
So it's really important to tryand stay on top of it.
I have many Google searches forall sorts of things on my
computer, so I'm constantlyflagging up things that I want
to have a little look.
You dive down into these littlerabbit holes sometimes and then
(04:55):
you come out somewherecompletely different.
But it's a journey of discoveryand I actually quite enjoy it,
and I like to find answers.
I'm always sure there's ananswer to something somewhere.
If you're at weird growthfactors, or I know that there's
probably an off-label drug or asupplement that will probably do
something against thatparticular pathway.
(05:17):
So I'm constantly delvingaround, digging around, trying
to find answers.
And I find it a challenge and Ilike it actually.
Ivelisse Page (05:24):
So good.
And for those who are listeningwho are unfamiliar with the use
of off-label drugs or repurposeddrugs for cancer, what does that
mean?
What is the definition of arepurposed drug and how does
that differ from traditionalcancer treatments?
Jane McLelland (05:38):
Okay, so off-label means that drugs are
given certain indications whenthey're approved by the FDA or
the M H R A.
in the UK, they are approved fora particular condition.
So Metformin, for example, isapproved for diabetes.
Now it's off-label uses are nowfor cancer, although it's not
actually approved for cancer.
So unfortunately, because it'snot an approved drug, it's not
(06:02):
generally given.
So it's off-label.
Repurpose means just repurposinga drug for a new area of
research.
There are an awful lot of drugsbeing looked at to be repurposed
for cancer treatment.
Ivelisse Page (06:16):
Yeah.
One that I discovered, mybrother-in-law actually shared
with me as research he was doingwhen I was going through my
cancer journey with colon cancerwas Cimetidine.
And he found a study that theysaid that patients who took 400
milligrams in the morning and atnight before surgery and a year
after had an 86% survival versus33%, and that study was just
(06:40):
like alarming to me, and I knowit's the H2 blocker and things
like that in there, but it'sthings like that, that patients
aren't aware of that can reallyhelp.
Jane McLelland (06:48):
I actually use some Cimetidine myself as well,
actually.
So once I'd recovered fromcancer, I didn't know that I had
cystic fibrosis, that my immunesystem, I thought it was just my
immune system was completelybroken from the chemo, and I
constantly kept on gettinginfection after infection and
lung problems.
And I always thought it was downto a rubbish immune system.
(07:09):
And I think that was part of theproblem.
And in fact, I tested my immunesystem and it was something
known as TH-2 dominant ratherthan TH-1.
Those are your natural, TH-1 isyour cancer killing zone,
whereas TH-2 is more sort ofallergic type of humoral
response in the cells.
And I needed to reverse thatbalance, and that's where I use
(07:29):
Cimetidine and I use exactly thesame dose.
Actually, I use 400 morning andevening in order to reverse the
TH-2 back to a TH-1 dominance inorder to give me a bit more
natural killer cells and generalcells that would actually fight
infection.
Cuz I, I suffered for many yearsactually, not knowing that I had
(07:50):
cystic fibrosis, which was onlydiscovered a few months before
Covid struck.
So I was in a bit of a state atthat point.
Cause I wasn't given any drugsto cope with it or anything.
But actually in September thatyear, of 2020, they came out or
they were allowing my particulargenetic mutations, which were
not your normal cystic fibrosismutations, but they approved the
(08:10):
drugs for cystic fibrosis for mygenetic mutations.
Bingo.
Wow.
That just massive change.
Ivelisse Page (08:16):
That's incredible.
That's incredible.
And for people who don't knowCimetidine is the common name
for Prevacid which is used oftenfor heartburn.
Jane McLelland (08:26):
And there's another Tagamet.
Ivelisse Page (08:27):
Yes, Tagamet is another one.
So can you also explain thebasic principles of your starved
cancer approach and how it worksto limit cell growth?
Jane McLelland (08:36):
A basic thing to understand is that cancer cells
are always hungry.
They have this massive appetitefor food.
Because they're constantlydividing, they constantly need
to create new macro molecules tomake their daughter cells.
So they need the dna, they needthe organelles, they need the
cell membranes.
So they need to make a lot ofprotein.
They need to make new fat.
(08:57):
So that's all part of it.
And that's driven by glucose isgenerally the fuel in order to
create the process of makingthese new proteins and fats.
And what happens is cancerbreaks down glucose, it breaks
down glutamine to actually fuel,and sometimes it breaks down fat
as well in order to make the newcells.
(09:17):
So my approach is actually tonot just some of the glucose,
but actually to look at blockingglutamine and fat pathways as
well.
So I created this triangle, mymetro map, which effectively
just goes through the keymetabolic pathways that cancer
uses to fuel itself.
And the way I describe it isthat if you block one pathway,
cancer is very clever.
(09:38):
It just uses another one.
But you've got to work out whatthose synergistic pathways are
in order to really get the besteffect.
And that's something we're stilllooking at the synergistic
blocking of pathways.
But certainly one is the normalOXPHOS or oxidative
phosphorylation, which is thenormal process of making ATP,
which is the currency of energy.
(10:00):
Cancer cells use a differentprocess called glycolysis, but
if you block the glycolysis, itjust uses more OXPHOS, vice
versa, if you block the OXPHOS,it uses more glycolysis.
So you've actually got to workat blocking both together.
And most people don't know thatcancer cells consume and
actually use an awful lot ofglutamine as part of their
process of making energy.
Ivelisse Page (10:22):
Interesting.
Is that used for all cancers ordo you find that some cancers
you have, more of one...
Jane McLelland (10:29):
You've even got some cancers that are very
arginine, which is another aminoacid driven like sarcomas, and
liver cancers are very argininedriven and some brain cancers
are very arginine driven.
There's a doctor who works downthe road here at the Hammersmith
Hospital.
She uses a special drug andshe's getting fantastic results
just starving glutamine withthis new drug, and I just hope
(10:51):
I'm actually, I had a sarcomapatient on the phone this
morning.
I'm thinking, maybe we can usethat for her as well, because
it's blocking the arginine,which is the key fuel for
sarcomas.
It is very hard for doctors tojustify something sometimes to
allow somebody to have somethingon a compassionate use.
She's stage four sarcoma, she'sonly in her early thirties and
(11:12):
she needs some help.
What do you do?
Ivelisse Page (11:14):
That's incredible.
And we will put links in ourshow notes to your metro map
link on how to contact you.
And I know you have a list ofpractitioners that have learned
your approach that kind ofincorporate it into their
integrative oncology that theywork with their patients on.
So we will make sure to put thaton there.
(11:34):
Can you give some other examplesof repurposed drugs that have
been used in cancer treatmentand how they had limited cell
growth?
Jane McLelland (11:41):
So my cocktail, just give you my personal
cocktail and what worked for me.
Initially I used Berberine,which is a natural form of
Metformin, but later on I diduse Metformin as well.
That was part of my cocktail.
They're both very good fortreating diabetes and then I use
Lovastatin.
It's quite hard to get hold ofLovastatin these days.
(12:01):
Most people either useSimvastatin or Atorvastatin and
those statins are fat loving,very important to get fat loving
statins.
These generally lowercholesterol.
They also have biganti-inflammatory effects and
actually synergize really wellwith some non-steroidal
anti-inflammatories.
And the one that I chose wasEtodolac.
(12:22):
The combination of the statintogether with the Etodolac make
them five times more effectiveat killing cancer cells than
individually.
Statins on their own don't workvery well, Metformin on its own
doesn't work very well, thenon-steroidal on its own, and
suddenly you get this synergy byadding these things together
because they're targetingdifferent things and you get
this exponential blocking ofwhat you're trying to do.
(12:45):
So those are the three things.
And then I added Dipyridamole,which is an old platelet,
antiplatelet drug.
So it doesn't actually destroyyour platelets.
What it does is stops themsticking together.
That allows your bloodcirculation to flow through
properly.
It doesn't allow the cancercells to stick down into little
metastatic niches, so it helpsto keep the whole thing flowing.
(13:06):
And actually temporarily I usedaspirin.
I didn't use aspirin and theEtodolac together, but I did use
aspirin and Dipyridamoletogether to begin with until I
swapped over to using Etodolac.
But the Dipyridamole workssynergistically with the statin.
They both work on blockingcholesterol pathways.
Like I said, with the OXPHOS andthe glycolysis is the same with
(13:28):
these two cholesterol pathways.
If you block one, it'll just usethe other one.
So same thing, you're justblocking two synergistic
pathways.
And that's what I was doing.
I was stopping the formation ofcholesterol, which are important
little blobs that every singlecancer cell has on the surface.
So it's just slowing down theability for it to make those new
(13:49):
cell membranes.
Ivelisse Page (13:50):
That's incredible.
And I love that you said it's asynergistic effect, and you know
a big part of therapy as well asmistletoe therapy.
And people just say, oh, I justneed some mistletoe and that'll
cure my cancer.
And it's never just one thing.
And I love that you are workingdifferent pathways.
You're synergistically workingwith many different aspects, not
only these repurposed drugs orsupplements and mistletoe
(14:13):
therapy, whatever it may be.
But what are some otherpractical tips for incorporating
the starved cancer approach fromyour book into a person's cancer
treatment plan besides,repurposed drugs?
Jane McLelland (14:24):
I've got four pillars really of starving the
cancer.
First one is your diet, and itdoesn't have to be completely
starving yourself.
The whole point is that you areusing these other things to back
up what you're trying to do soyou don't have to go on a
completely starving.
Some people do fast.
There are many ways to do it,intermittent fasting.
You can just have a low GI plusactually you, you have to have a
(14:46):
fairly low protein diet.
Ketogenic diet can be useful,but some people get resistant to
that.
It can lead to resistance afterabout 30 days.
Again, you've got this problemwhere it's starting to use
different pathways.
Diet is a big one.
Supplements, I used a heck of alot of supplements.
I was throwing an awful lot atmyself because I didn't know
enough about what was gonnawork.
(15:08):
But when I found somethinginteresting in the literature
into my routine it would go.
So those supplements is thesecond thing.
Exercise is obviously very goodfor starving the cancer.
And, there are many ways thatexercise will help.
Aerobic exercise will actuallyoxygenate the tissue, but
actually weightlifting, doingsome weightlifting will actually
starve the cancer even moreeffectively actually than the
(15:31):
aerobic stuff.
There are different ways thatexercise actually works on
cancer.
And in fact, I do recommend thatpeople exercise after they've
had a meal.
They don't have to do great bigaerobic exercise after a meal,
but they need to do enough justto curb that insulin spike and
glucose spike that you get aftera meal.
So you just keep everything abit lower so that can't, that
doesn't feed the cancer in quitethe same way.
Ivelisse Page (15:54):
I love that.
So you have diet, supplements,exercise, and what's your last
pillar
Jane McLelland (15:58):
Then you have label, off-label drugs as well.
Ivelisse Page (16:00):
Off-label drugs.
Okay.
And That's why it's reallyimportant to also know what's
best for you as an individual,whether it's your diet or
exercising, intermittentfasting.
And we have a lot ofpractitioners that help you to
determine what is best for you.
And I know a lot of them use itbefore their traditional
treatments, if they're pursuingthat pathway.
Cuz it will help the treatmentsto work better and also get rid
(16:21):
of the toxins faster out of yourbody.
And then exercise, I know thatwas a difficult one for me when
I was in the middle of myjourney cause I was so weak.
But even just a walk.
yeah.
Or even just sitting withlightweights, and just lifting
some lightweights while you'resitting watching a show or
listening to music or reading.
There are many ways, I love thatyou mentioned, to incorporate
those things for your betterhealth.
Jane McLelland (16:43):
This is particularly important I think
actually if you've got cachexia,which is the wasting syndrome
that you can get sometimes withcancer when it's starting to do
this salvage autophagy, it'sactually eating away at you and
munching up parts of your muscleand your fat.
This is where exercise canreally help as well.
And there are some supplementsthat will help improve cachexia.
(17:05):
But you have to take them beforeyou exercise again.
You don't want the amino acidsto go to feeding the cancer.
You want it to go to building upyour muscle, so it's important
to take it at the right time.
And cachexia is, I'm probablygonna do a blog on that fairly
soon actually and put that inthe newsletter.
I think it's important.
It kills quite a lot of peoplejust wasting away rather than
(17:25):
the actual cancer itself.
And you have to be incrediblycareful about your diet when
it's cachexia as well.
Ivelisse Page (17:32):
Can you explain to people what cachexia is?
Jane McLelland (17:34):
There are several reasons that cachexia
happens.
One of the problems that you getwith cancer is this
inflammation, and this causescertain changes in the cancer
metabolism.
Cancer also has these littletiny microvesicles that it sheds
off things called exosomes.
I dunno whether you've heard ofthose before.
Ivelisse Page (17:53):
Yes.
Jane McLelland (17:53):
And these shed off and they take micro RNA and
take all sorts of otherinstructions, and it takes some
other particles as well to tellyour muscles and your fat zones
to break down, and then thatgets put into the circulation to
feed the tumor.
So it's actually a parasitethat's eating away at you, and
(18:14):
it's that the cancer is actuallyinstructing the body to break
down, to feed itself, and youget this wasting of your muscles
and your fat zones.
When I had cancer, I noticed myinner thighs were thinner than
they'd ever been before.
And I knew it was unusual, andthat was before I was diagnosed.
I thought, wow, gosh, I havebeen exercising better than I
(18:36):
normally do, and I couldn'tunderstand.
But actually I was misdiagnosedfor an awfully long time.
Yeah, I definitely had somecachexia changes going on even
when I was first diagnosed backin 1994.
Ivelisse Page (18:47):
Can you share a brief little bit about your
story for those who haven'theard your story of overcoming
cervical cancer?
Correct?
Stage four?
Jane McLelland (18:55):
In a nutshell, I, I was diagnosed in 94 with
cervical cancer that spread tomy lungs in 99.
So it became stage four As aresult of all the treatments
that I had, the high dose chemo,they told me that they'll
probably kill me with thesetreatments because they
overdosed me so much on all ofthat because they didn't think I
was gonna survive anyway.
(19:15):
But that then gave me bonemarrow cancer, which actually is
another really serious illnessto try and overcome as well.
And it was at that point that Iknew I was controlling one
cancer because my normal cancermarkers for cervical cancer were
okay.
They were still in the normalrange, but these other markers
uh, which showed theseglycolytic changes and various
(19:37):
other things going on with theleukemia were way off the
charts.
So I had to change what I wasdoing.
I thought, okay so the naturalapproaches, the intravenous
vitamin C, all the other thingsthat I was doing, I never tried
mistletoe.
I, couldn't get hold of it backthen, but I certainly looked
into it and, then I decided toinvestigate these off-label
(19:58):
drugs as well.
I thought, well, I've gotnothing to lose here.
I knew I only had a few weeks tolive, unless I actually did
something fairly radical.
I had an understanding doctor,both my oncologist at the time
actually.
I had some wonderful integrativeoncologists that I was working
with as well.
And I got this little cocktailprescribed, checked, I got'em
from different people and then Ichecked that it was okay to add
(20:20):
them all together.
Eventually I got this littlecocktail together, threw it all
together and seven months later,markers were fine and no trace
of cancer.
Thank God.
And I never got any sideeffects.
I didn't even feel like I was ontreatment.
And that was the funny thing wasyou normally feel really
terrible, awful sick, reallyshoddy when you're having
(20:42):
treatment, but actually I didn'treally feel like I was ill at
all or really suffering duringthat time.
Ivelisse Page (20:47):
And that's something that is so important,
and I think that if anythingelse, whether it's mistletoe or
repurposed drugs that help youto go through something so
difficult with a great qualityof life is huge.
Not only for the patient, butfor their loved ones that are
seeing them suffer.
And I know that God spared yourlife for a huge reason to be
able to educate and help so manyothers in these last years that
(21:10):
we've had learning about thisfrom you, and I know you have
lots of stories from patientsthat have also been, you're not
the only one, even though youwere the first test case.
You're not the only one that hasbenefited.
Do you have a story that standsout to you that you can share
briefly about someone else whokind of followed your metro map
or repurposed drugs?
Jane McLelland (21:31):
I talk about two in my online course.
I've got a lady, she was her2positive, really bad stage four,
but she went to the SeattleIntegrative people.
She did my protocol and then shegot into remission.
She's doing really well.
And then it came back again and,I said, are you sure you've
blocked all the right pathways?
And we had a look, and shehadn't blocked the salvage
(21:53):
autophagy pathway.
And this is one of the thingsthat cancer learns to use, maybe
sometimes later on.
And I said, block that one aswell.
We added that one into herprotocol and bingo, she went
back into remission again.
So I love that the fact thatshe'd done really well.
She got herself into remissionand in fact now she's still,
(22:14):
she's going strong.
This is years later.
She is now off all traditionalmeds.
She's not had any moretraditional meds.
I'm not even sure she's eventaking the off label drugs
anymore.
I think she's pretty muchcarrying on as a normal person
would gone back to work and isfine.
The other one I discuss in mycourse is this gentleman who had
prostate cancer.
His PSA was 1,007, and thereason for that was that he'd
(22:38):
been having glutathione, whichwas fueling his cancer.
I'm very wary about peopletaking glutathione, because it
bleeds to resistance.
It's a major antioxidant and youactually need to create some
free radicals, which kind ofpro-oxidants the opposite.
And he had got to 1,007.
He was in a wheelchair and itwas a disaster.
(23:00):
Spinal mets everywhere,paralyzed, partly paralyzed.
And he did my protocol and gotback down to his PSA is under
one, and he's back water skiing,having a fantastic time.
Lives in Hawaii.
Ivelisse Page (23:13):
Incredible.
And you mentioned somethingabout asking different
physicians that you had toprescribe one or the other and
other things.
And there I just wanted to sharethat there are integrative
oncologists out there and evenoncologists who are willing to
help monitor you and work withyou.
You just have to find the rightones.
I know for myself, once I wastwo years out, I asked him, hey
(23:34):
I'm taking Cimetidine, I'mtaking all these things.
Is there anything I should drop?
And in your opinion, and helooked at me and he's like, do
not change a thing.
Jane McLelland (23:43):
Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
Ivelisse Page (23:45):
Yes, don't change a thing.
It's working.
And I think I probably stoppedthe Cimetidine four years after
I was clear and I eased off ofthat.
And I haven't been on it, butwhat advice do you have for
individuals interested inincorporating this approach of
starving cancer into theircancer management plan?
Jane McLelland (24:02):
Not to get overwhelmed, all right.
If they read my book the keything is not to get overwhelmed,
try and get themselves in withone of the doctors if they can.
And, they will get them on abasic program.
And then from there, I guidepeople.
People read my book many times.
I do have an online course aswell, which makes things much
simpler for people tounderstand, and I go more into
(24:24):
specific pathways of whichsupplements, which drugs work
specifically more for differentcancers.
And I think people find thatincredibly useful.
But I think the main thing is tostart somewhere.
Some people read the book andthen they don't really get that
they actually need to startdoing something.
You're not going to overcomecancer if you've got stage four
just with the traditionaltreatments, very unlikely.
(24:46):
Even the new immunotherapies,they don't work as well as
they'd like us to imagine theydo.
But incorporating some of theseoff-label drugs can be
incredibly useful.
They're now doing a trial fortriple negative breast cancer
using a new immunotherapy withIvermectin because that boosts
the tumor to make it instead ofbeing cold, it makes it hot.
That means infiltratinglymphocytes can get into it, and
(25:09):
that's what Ivermectin does.
It actually increases the amountof immune cells you actually get
in the tumor.
So there are many different waysto incorporate lots of different
off-label drugs into yourprotocol and I think the big
thing is to work out, if you'rehaving chemo, there might be
slightly different protocol toif you're having immunotherapy
to if you're having a targeteddrug, there are certain targeted
(25:31):
drugs like osimertinib, whichyou have to take HDAC inhibitors
at the same time.
You don't need to know whatthose are necessary right now,
but they are things likeHydroxybutyrate, but the
butyrate kind of thing.
So sodiumbutyrate andbetahydroxybutyrate, which is a
ketone, can actually help toblock those.
Those are the kind of things youneed to know and try and work
(25:51):
out your conventional treatment.
Cause I'm not againstconventional treatments at all.
I think we just need to makethem work better.
At the moment, the cocktailsaren't there.
They're not targeting themetabolism of the cancer stem
cells as well as, the fastdividing cells are also quite
happily mutating.
And you need to be able to stopall of that happening in various
(26:12):
different ways and attacking themetabolism.
Stopping the metabolism actuallystops the cancer from mutating
and finding a way around thosetreatments and becoming
resistant.
So it's all about making thetreatments the normal
conventional treatments that youhave, more effective.
I'm definitely not alternative.
I'm most definitelycomplimentary.
Ivelisse Page (26:32):
Yes, myself as well.
And I think too, what a lot ofpeople don't realize is that
traditional treatments likechemotherapy and radiation, they
don't kill the stem cells.
And that's why we have such ahigh recurrence rate because
people go back, they said, oh,I'm cancer free, no evidence of
disease.
And they go back one to theirold routines, or even if they
(26:54):
didn't, they're not addressingthose stem cells and it will
come back.
So it's really wise toincorporate the things that
you're sharing to stop thosepathways from rearing their ugly
heads again.
Jane McLelland (27:05):
The cancer stem cells are so few, it's one per
10,000 of the cancer tumor cellsare actually the cancer stem
cells.
But they are the tricky onesthat really need to be stopped.
So it can look like you got ridof a tumor on a scan, but
actually, these little peskystem cells can really cause an
awful lot of trouble later on ifyou don't stop those too.
Ivelisse Page (27:27):
Yes.
And so in closing, how do yousee the repurposed drugs used in
cancer treatment evolving in thefuture?
What potential advancements areyou most excited about?
Jane McLelland (27:37):
I have a big chapter on ferroptosis at the
end of my second edition, and Iknow that is the future.
It's a hot topic in research.
It hasn't really made its waydown to the bench, bedside yet,
not in a big way, but I have gota few doctors doing it and
getting fantastic results.
Ivelisse Page (27:57):
And what is that?
Explain what that is real quick.
Jane McLelland (27:59):
Okay.
Very quickly, so cancer lovesiron.
It has this massive appetite foriron.
So you actually oxidize the ironin the cancer cells and that
destroys the cell membranes.
Something called peroxidase,it's just a sort of a
destruction of the cell membraneitself and that destroys the
cancer cell.
Totally different way of causingcell death.
(28:21):
Apoptosis is the normal celldeath mechanism, but this is a
slight variation on that, andyou can use various things.
There are many resistancepathways involved, so I do have
a list of supplements and a listof drugs that try and target all
of those different things at thesame time.
Again, it's got to be a cocktailthat works.
Intravenous vitamin C is part ofit, but it doesn't work on its
(28:44):
own.
That's why a lot of people haveintravenous vitamin C because
that creates hydrogen peroxide.
That's the oxygen that you needto trigger this oxidation of the
iron.
But you need to have it incombination with some other
stuff.
Doing intravenous Vitamin C onits own doesn't work.
Artemisinin is obviously animportant thing to have, but
(29:06):
there are many other things youneed in order to block all the
different resistance pathways.
Coq 10 is actually somethingthat's going to stop
ferroptosis.
So actually statins are reallycritical cause they help to
lower that antioxidant so youcan create the ferroptosis much
easier.
Ivelisse Page (29:24):
Incredible.
So you think that's the future?
Jane McLelland (29:27):
I think that will work alongside
immunotherapy and I thinkactually getting immunotherapies
to work better is that currentlythe future.
Everybody's gone from looking atchemotherapy, then they went
into angiogenesis inhibitors,and then they've now gone
immunotherapies.
But certainly immunotherapiescan be very helpful, but they
need to be made more effective.
And actually ferroptosis willwork alongside immunotherapies
(29:50):
as well.
I've actually had mistletoe,because it's helping the immune
system, really hugelybeneficial.
And, I think this is the waywe're going is, trying to get
the immune system to switch backon and actually beat the cancer.
But you've gotta block some ofthe reasons why the
immunotherapies don't work isbecause of the metabolic
problems going on in the cells.
So if you block those first, theimmunotherapies are gonna work
(30:12):
much better.
So it's always a synergy ofdifferent things, and it's
getting people to understandthat you've got to stop things
like the glucose will actuallyblocking glycolysis, that huge
element where the cancerferments the sugar will help
immunotherapy to work better.
So it's always many factorscoming into play here in order
(30:32):
to get a better result.
And that's what I want people toknow.
It's always combination.
That's my big thing.
I say it so many times.
It's always a combination ofthings that works.
Ivelisse Page (30:41):
Yes.
thank you Jane so much.
You are a huge knowledge ofinformation and learned so much
today.
And I know that those who arelistening really appreciate your
insight.
And again, we will put your linkto your book and to the roadmap
and your resources in the shownotes so that people who are
interested can dig deeper andbecome their own Sherlock Holmes
(31:03):
of their cancer as well.
So thank you for joining us.
Jane McLelland (31:07):
Thanks so much Ivelisse.
If you enjoyed this episode andyou'd like to help support our
podcast, please subscribe andshare it with others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
(31:27):
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
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