92-Mark Batterson - A Million Little Miracles - Believe Big Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders.
And cancer thrivers from aroundthe globe.

(00:35):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
Well, today we welcome back tothe podcast my friend Pastor
Mark Batterson, to talk abouthis new book, A Million Little
Miracles.
Mark serves as the lead pastorof National Community Church in

(00:57):
Washington, DC one church withmultiple locations.
NCC also owns and operatesEbenezer's Coffee House, the
Miracle Theater, The DC DreamCenter and the Capital
Turnaround as gathering placesfor the community and funding
for kingdom causes.
Mark serves as the leadvisionary for the Dream

(01:20):
Collective, which equips andsupports dreamers who long for
revival in the church,reformation in the Kingdom, and
the Renaissance and culture.
Mark holds a doctor of ministrydegree from Regent University
and is the author of 24 books,including one of my favorites
still, and New York Timesbestseller, The Circle Maker.

(01:44):
Mark is married to his beautifulwife and my friend Lora, and
they live on Capitol Hill.
They have three children, ParkerSummer, who's married to Austin
and Josiah.
Welcome back to the show, Mark!

Mark Batterson (01:57):
Oh, Ivelisse.
Thank you.
And can I make one, one littleaddition?
We now have a grandson, ourfirst grandson, so it's a new
chapter of life.
We are loving it.
And just on a personal note justthank you for the way that you
walked Laura and I through acouple of battles with breast

(02:20):
cancer and you have been sogracious to us, encouraged us
and, we wouldn't be where we arewithout Believe Big.
So, grateful and so fun.
Excited to have thisconversation.

Aw.
Well, thank you for taking timeto be with us.
I know how busy you are andcongratulations on that
grandbaby.
That is totally just anincredible blessing.
So thank you andcongratulations.

Thank you.

So we always start our podcast with our
guest's favorite health tip.
Do you have one that you couldshare with us as we start today?

Well, I'll throw out a couple of random things.
I, everybody has a differentcircadian rhythm, and so I wanna
be really careful.
Oswald Chamber said, let God beas original with others as he
was with you.
So, I'm not prescribing, but aNASA study found that a 26
minute nap increasesproductivity, 34%.

(03:15):
So, for all my nappers outthere, it resets my brain.
I have a new burst of creativitya new burst of energy.
And so I'm just wired in a way.
I can't work wire to wire and Iwork, you know, 10, 11,
sometimes 12 hour days.
I can't do it without either alittle nap in between or maybe

(03:38):
some exercise to reset.
So, there you have it.

I love it.
I love it if

I, in fact, Ivelisse, if I was running for
political office, I wouldprobably, my platform would
probably be a nationallymandated nap time.
You don't have to nap, buteverybody gets a nap time.
I think we would be a nicer,nicer nation because of it.

I believe it.
I believe it.
I, and during nap time, I said,if you don't want a nap, that's
okay.
As my kids got older, it's quiettime.
So there you go.
So I love that.
So A Million Little Miracles issuch an uplifting book.
What inspired you to write itand what message do you hope
readers take away from it?

If we were doing a word association and we hear
the word miracle, we tend tothink of things that defy the
laws of nature or maybe evendefy a doctor's diagnosis.
And you know, we can talk aboutthat.
I've experienced those kinds ofmiracles but at the same time.
There are 37 sextillionbiochemical reactions happening

(04:42):
in the human body at any givenmoment.
And Ivelisse, I didn't flip aswitch this morning.
I don't even change thebatteries.
Like, it just it happens likeyour heart will beat a hundred
thousand times six quarts ofblood through 60,000 miles of
veins, arteries, andcapillaries.
If that's not miraculous, I'mnot sure what is.

(05:03):
You know, every day about 330billion cells will recycle.
So we're all about 1% differentthan we were yesterday.
And I think those are miraclesin and of themselves.
And I happen to believe thatwe're fearfully and wonderfully
made.
And in fact, you know what?
Our body, even, you could notafford the pharmacy.

(05:27):
Or the the drugs that your bodyproduces, be it oxytocin or
serotonin, you couldn't affordit.
And your body just does it.
And I think all of that ispretty amazing.
So, I think miracles are kind ofall of the above, but this was a
book about, Hey, can weappreciate the million little

(05:50):
miracles that are happening allaround us all the time,
happening in us all the time.
So that was kind of themotivation for writing the book.

Yeah.
Well, I love it.
And you know, your books oftenexplore the power of faith in
action as well.
So how did writing this bookchallenge or deepen your own
faith?

Well, I think we either take things for granted
or we take them for gratitudeand, you know, I think that the
happiest, healthiest, holiestpeople on the planet are those
who just don't take anything forgranted.
And I wish this wasn't the case,Ivelisse, but you have some
experience with this.

(06:31):
You know, I've never, my wifehas had two bouts with cancer.
I haven't had cancer, but my, inmy intestines ruptured and I was
two days on a respirator,probably should have died.
Lost 25 pounds in a week.
Had an ostomy, had to wear thatostomy bag for about six months.
It was a hard year.

(06:52):
And I tell you what, after youwalk through that kind of
experience, you, you just don'ttake as many things for granted.
You tend to take everything forgratitude and and so I think,
you know that's, I think that'sjust really important that we
just cultivate that attitude ofgratitude and it has more to do

(07:14):
with health than what we think.
And I think the thepsychosomatic nature of we're
body, mind, spirit, and allthose things affect everything
else.

Yeah.
I mean, they've even donescientific studies that you
can't be in a state of gratitudeand fear at the same time.
Yes.
It has to be one or the other.
And so if you're experiencinggratitude, then your cells are
thriving, your body's thriving,and they've actually done
studies on fear that when you'rein a fear state, your body
becomes frozen and it can'theal.

(07:46):
So it's really important toremember how God created our
amazing body to thrive.
And your suggestion andconfirmation and reminder of
gratitude is one that we need toalways remember.
So thank you for sharing that.

Can I throw in kinda one fun little thing?
Yes.
As someone that had severeasthma for 40 years, and I don't
know how else to say this, butGod healed my lungs.
July 2nd, 2016, prayed a prayerand I have not touched an
inhaler from that day to thisday.

(08:21):
After 40 years of like, thereweren't even 40 days where I
didn't take multiple puffs of arescue inhaler.
So, when that happened, Ivelissestarted really researching the
respiratory system.
Just very curious about kind ofthe way that, that, that works,
the way it, the way inflammationmay affect it, for example.

(08:43):
And this is fascinating to me.
So, you know, we have asympathetic nervous system fight
or flight.
We have the parasympathetic, therest and digest that everybody
kinda knows that what I think isfascinating is that most of the
nerve endings that control theparasympathetic nervous system
are attached to the lower halfof the lungs.

(09:04):
And so if you stop and thinkabout it, if you're in a state
to fight, or flight, you havesurface breath.
You don't breathe deep, youbreathe very shallow.
But there's this little way totrick your system that literally
a deep breath.
In fact, maybe all of us shoulddo it right now.
Take a deep breath.

(09:25):
And then you let it out.
And you can almost feel thephysiological effect that there,
there's something about even theway that God has designed us,
that deep breath can then kindof put you back into that
parasympathetic state.
And part of why I love, BelieveBig and love you is that those

(09:48):
are the kind of things that youhelp us do.
That, you know, there, there areways that.
There's some things we cannotcontrol, but there are a lot of
things that we can control and Ijust thought that was kind of
fun to throw it out there.
I mean, I have never had so muchfun researching a book.
I mean, 688 footnotes went in athousand different directions,

(10:09):
but just never cease to beamazed at, the human body and
about everything else.

Yeah.
And you know, you mentionedabout your asthma and you must
have prayed before those 40years right?
Or all those 40 years that Godwould help to heal it.
What do you think was thedifference?
Like some people say, man, I'vebeen praying over this for years
and I don't feel like God'shearing me or, what do you feel
was the difference in God'stiming of saying, okay, not only

(10:40):
did he heal you of that, butthen you ran a marathon without
an inhaler as well.
So, you know, to dot that I andcross that T.
So what do you think was theresult of that?
Like why?

Yeah, and I don't think I know.
I, there are just some thingsthat I have what I call a
Deuteronomy 29:29 file.
And I promise everybody that'slistening.
Yeah, I pastor a church.
I'm not gonna turn this into asermon, but but that is my
worldview.
That's kind of my matrix thatthings make sense.

(11:13):
And so, Deuteronomy 29:29 saysthat the revealed things belong
to us.
The secret things belong to God.
So Ivelisse, over the years I'vehad to put a lot of thing things
in that Deuteronomy 29:29 file,things that I don't understand.
They just, they haven't beenrevealed to me.
So why would God not heal me forthose 40 years?

(11:36):
But then on one day bam.
He does.
I'm not sure I understand that.
And you know, before we plantedand pastored National Community
Church here in DC, which theLord has blessed and it's
thrived, I mean, we tried toplant a church in Chicago and it
failed.
Like, I don't totally understandthat I and Ivelisse, I don't

(11:59):
understand why my father-in-lawat 55, 2 days after his 55th
birthday and he had just gone tothe doctor and the doctor had
just said, you could drive aMack truck through your
arteries.
How is it then that he dies of amassive heart attack at 55?
Like we, that still doesn't makesense to me 27 years later.
So I just think the humancondition is such that I don't

(12:25):
think we're gonna have all theanswers on this side of the
space time continuum.
I think the day will come thatsome of those things will make
sense.
But there are just not easyanswers to those questions.
And at the same time if therewere, if you could answer every
question, faith and trust wouldbe out of the equation.

(12:47):
But, part of it is learning totrust the heart of God when I
can't see the hand of God.

Yeah.
I think that is such a amazingmessage.
Thanks for sharing that, becauseI feel that even in the cancer
world, right.
I think one of the messages thatJimmy asked me is.
We need to make sure that wetell the Lord that we trust him
no matter how this turns out.
Like we have our agenda, we haveour hopes on how things turn

(13:14):
out.
We he's the only sovereign oneand he's the one that knows the
beginning and the end.
And we just need to surrender tothat.
And I think that act ofsurrendering brings peace.
And allows us to continue on,you know, with however many days
we have ahead.
So, thank you.
Thank you for sharing that.

(13:35):
You know, and that brings me to,I know that a lot of people that
are listening right now have ahard time and they struggle with
believing in miracles.
So how would you encouragesomebody who wants to believe
but finds it difficult and, youknow, what do you think is the
biggest misconception peoplehave about miracles?

Yeah, well, I might remind us, just take a
moment to remind us that we areon a planet that's spinning at a
thousand miles per hour andspeeding through space at 67,000
miles per hour.
So even on a day, we didn't getmuch done.
We did travel 1.6 million milesthrough space.

(14:16):
Now I sometimes jokingly asklike when was the last time you
thank God for keeping us inorbit?
And the answer is.
Never, like I, I don't kneelnext to my bed Lord.
I wasn't sure we were gonna makethe full rotation today, but you
did it again.
Like I think that God is so goodat what God does that we tend to
take it for granted.

(14:36):
And so part of the impulse inwriting this book was I.
I've met people who would say,I've never experienced a
miracle.
And I would say, with all duerespect, you have never not,
like, think about theastrophysic kind of miracles
that are happening.
I mean, we haven't even thrownin the fact that the Milky Way

(14:59):
is speeding through space aswell and spinning and we don't
even get dizzy.
We can keep our balance prettygood.
I just think that, it kind ofbegins with an appreciation
that, wow, everything, well,nothing is as simple as it
seems, and everything is moremiraculous than we can imagine

(15:20):
and I think that baselineappreciation then helps us
understand that.
Yeah, even though we callmiracles things that are kind of
inexplainable the truth is allof it is pretty miraculous.
So that's kind of my baseline.

Yeah, I love that.
And then you also emphasize theneed to cultivate a holy
curiosity.
How can someone facing, youknow, a difficult season like a
health crisis rediscover a senseof wonder and faith in the midst
of uncertainty.

Yeah.
That is sort of one of my rulesof life or mantras.
I think I would've been about 22when I picked up a biography on
Albert Einstein, 878 pages andpage 755 changed my life.
Albert Einstein said, never losea holy curiosity.
And there was something aboutthe juxtaposition of those two

(16:16):
ideas that really impacted me.
And so Ivelisse I'm serious,honestly, about everything.
Like there's hardly anythingthat I don't find pretty
interesting.
Pretty amazing.
But then I would even push thata little bit further.
So Lora and I have a counselorand you know, I'll just put this

(16:39):
out there.
I've never met anybody thatdoesn't need counseling at some
point for something like all ofus need a a little bit of help
along the way.
Ours happens to be a familysystems therapist, and so it's
kind of the Dr.
Murray Bowen, that kind ofsystem of thought.
But at the heart of it is thisidea of cultivating non-anxious

(17:01):
curiosity.
And I can't even tell you thathas changed the game for us.
In terms of parenting, like theway that we even parent our
children, occasionally you justlike, you know, what were you
thinking?
You were not thinking.
But there's a different approachpath where instead of making
people defensive, you justcultivated genuine curiosity.

(17:24):
In fact you know, everyone is mysuperior in some way and that I
learned of them.
That's what I want my posture tobe.
And then as it relates to, say acancer battle or cancer journey
I think I've shared this before,but man, this one's worth
sharing again, that, you know,Lora read this poem when she got
that first diagnosis and itposed a question.

(17:46):
And the question was this, whathave you come to teach me?
That's a really hard question toask when you get a hard
diagnosis or you're in adifficult situation, but I just
don't know how else to make itthrough.
You really have to take alearning posture, kind of a
growth mindset and genuinely askthe question, what have you come

(18:09):
to teach me?
And I tell you what, Lora and Ihave grown so much and I might
add, grown closer to each otherthrough the journey because hey,
this isn't what we would'vesigned up for.
But we're in the class andeither we can learn or not

(18:29):
learn, and we're gonna take alearning posture.
What have you come to teach us?

That's great.
Yeah.
I think one thing that I try anddo along with that is to say,
you know, Lord, take from mewhat you need to take.
You know, that's act ofsurrender again, is keeping your
palms open, facing up and say,Lord, take from me what you need
to take and give me what I needto receive today.
So that goes along with what youjust said.

(18:56):
I love that.
You know, at Believe Big youknow, we see prayer as a
powerful part of healing.
Can you share a story from yourbook or life where prayer led to
a breakthrough or an unexpectedmiracle besides your you know,
with your breathing and yourasthma?

Wow.
How much time do we have?

We have 10 more minutes.
Yeah,

I may come at this from a little different
angle.
'Cause you know, I could tellyou a story about a prompting to
pray a perimeter around CapitolHill 29 years ago.
And pretty crazy.
We own six properties worthabout$85 million on that prayer
circle.
So I've, I mean, we've seen realestate miracles.

(19:41):
We've seen health miracles.
So, you know, I've experiencedtoo many miracles not to believe
God for the next one, but can Ijust, can I maybe come at this
with a very simple observation?
I think for most of us ourdefault setting in prayer is,
Lord, change my circumstances.

(20:02):
Like, in other words, justwhatever's happening around me
change that.
The problem with that is this,that sometimes the circumstances
you're asking God to change arethe circumstances that God is
using to change you.
Now, let's be very careful here.
I think our theology is reallyimportant.
I think sometimes we, wemistakenly say that God causes c

(20:26):
certain things.
And I just don't I think we livein a fallen world where, disease
is part of the human condition.
And these bodies deteriorate.
And you know, I don't know whosaid it first, but n none of us
are getting outta here alive.
Ivelisse, like, you know, it onone level, like death is the

(20:48):
destiny of all of us.
And so ironically, even ifyou're healed, it's a temporary
healing.
There, there is an end point.
Sorry that turned into a littlebit of a went in a little
different direction that Iplanned.
But here is my thought or whatthe Lord is really teaching me.
I wanna pray, change mycircumstances, and if that
doesn't work, Lord, changeothers.

(21:10):
'cause it's way easier thanchanging me.
But, I really have come to aplace where my predominant
prayer is, Lord, change me.
Now if you wanna change thecircumstances and you wanna
change other people, that'sgreat.
But at the end of the day, endof the day, there's that old
song that says it's me, oh Lord,standing in the need of prayer.

(21:32):
So I think just prayer.
Yes, it changes things.
I think prayer is how we writehistory before it happens, but I
think prayer is also taking aposture where God can begin to
do a work in us and change ourminds, change our hearts, change
our attitudes, change ouroutlook, and all of those things

(21:55):
have a tremendous impact on ourlives.
So, instead of praying, changemy circumstances, change others.
I think our first prayer shouldprobably be, Lord, change me.

Yes.
Yeah.
That's great advice.
You know, I think what do I needto change within me to come all
that he's asked us to be?
I love that works in marriagetoo, right?
We can see the fault in ourspouses, right.
But it sure does.
Lord change me.
You know, many times it's us andnot them, so I.

Yeah.

How can we as believers, you know, become more
aware of being a miracle insomeone else's life?

Yeah, and I love that.
You know, I immediately, whatpopped into my head was this,
remember that little boy withhis brown bag lunch?
He had five loaves, two fish,and you know, in, in our hands,
five plus two equals seven.
But if you take what you have inyour hands, put it into God's
hands.
Five plus two equals 5,000remainder 12.

(22:54):
What I love about that story ishow that little boy just a small
act of love or faith orobedience, whatever you wanna
call it.
Like, it becomes a miracle for5,000 people.
So I just I think we never knowhow our sacrifice can be a
miracle for someone else.

(23:15):
So I wanna make sure that I'mposturing myself in a way that,
well, and Ivelisse, I think partof it starts with, I mean, let's
just.
Call it as it is, we're in acultural moment where we're
shaming and blaming, baiting,trolling, canceling.
Just a lot of negativity wherewe tend to see a common enemy

(23:37):
instead of common humanity.
And so I think it starts withthe theology of dignity.
That the image of God in megreets the image of God in you.
Part of what I write about inthe book is I'm a little bit
weary.
Being made to feel foolish forbelieving in intelligent design
when it should be the exactopposite.

(23:57):
Common sense and common sciencepoint towards we recognize
intelligent design when we seeit, whether it's a well plated
meal in nice restaurant or abuilding that clearly had an
architect and an engineer.
This narrative that we are acosmic accident, the result of

(24:18):
random chance is a falsenarrative and it does tremendous
damage to the human psyche.
I.
What, what makes us think we canbelieve that and it not affect
the souls of people who buy intothat.
So here's what I believe.
I believe you are the image ofGod, the apple of God's eye.

(24:38):
You're God's workmanship.
You're fearfully and wonderfullymade.
You were knit together in yourmother's womb by God.
He ordained all the days of yourlife.
You were made a little lowerthan the angels and crowned with
glory and, that's the narrativeof scripture.
And I think it's a criticalstarting point if we're gonna
regain just the humanity oftreating each other with love

(25:02):
and respect.
And so that's kinda where mymind goes when you ask that
question.

Hundred percent, you know?
And I think it gives us astanding point of who we are in
Christ, you know, who we werecreated to be, and not that
we're just some accident thathappened by chance.
So I love that you shared that.
And to add it another step oranother layer to that, you know,
for those walking alongside aloved one with cancer, what are

(25:30):
some ways that they can be apart of the miracle in that
person's life?

Yeah, well I think part of it is, there are
gonna be moments where even aguy named Moses, his arms got
tired.
Needed Aaron and her to kind ofcome alongside and lift up those
arms.
So I wanna or to use a gym, gymmetaphor, I'll throw this in
there for your husband, Jimmy.
Great.
That when you're at, when you'reat the gym, bench pressing,

(25:57):
sometimes if you're gonna pushyour limits, you need a spotter.
You need someone that's gonnahelp you complete that rep.
And so I just felt like for manyyears as Lora walked through,
the different stages of kindaher recovery from cancer.
Like, I just needed to beemotional support, spiritual
support.

(26:18):
You know, what do you need andwhat do we need to do?
You know, I think I, I.
I may have shared this with youbefore, but like we started
hitting comedy clubs watchingthose kind of standup specials
on Netflix a little bit more.
'cause we felt like we need tobe very intentional about
keeping the sense of humor,which helps you keep a sense of

(26:38):
perspective even when you're inthe middle of the dog fight, so
to speak.

Yeah.
I love that you're kind of likethat lightning rod that, you
know, neutralizes what's comingat you.
And I think for a cancerpatient, that is a lot,
especially when they enter intothe conventional appointments.
And I think that's one thingthat I could say that Jimmy did
as well.
He was that lightning rod thatkept me focused on God's
capabilities.

(27:03):
Right.
And not the challenge that wasin front of me and his
possibilities of how I can bewell and would be well.
So thank you.
Thank you for sharing that.
And, you know, as we coming to aclose on our time, you know, if
someone finishes your book andwants to take that next step in
growing in their faith, whatwould you recommend them to do?

Wow, that's a big question.
And you know, I think that, likeanything else, A faith journey
is a journey.
It kind of begins with a firststep.
But then there's no finish line.
Like you never arrive.
So I think it's continuing tohave this posture of growth, a

(27:48):
posture of faith and, and thenalong the way, I think you have
to enjoy the journey.
And some of us, you know, we're,we fall into the win then trap.
Like, when I get my driver'slicense or when I go to college,
when I graduate from college,when I get a job, when I get a
promotion, when I get married,when we have kids, when our kids

(28:09):
are out of the house, when I'mretired then life will be good.
No, you gotta enjoy the journeyright here, right now.
And part of that is just for me,living in a place of just
dependence upon God.
In him, we live and move andhave our being.

(28:30):
And so we, we wish that theLord's Prayer was give us this
month, our monthly bread evenbetter give us this year our
yearly bread, but it really isgive us this day, our daily
bread.
And so I think a lot of it isjust kind of this one day at a
time as mercies are new everymorning and kinda living in that

(28:52):
daily dependence upon God and,and if we do that God's pretty
good at getting us where hewants us to go.

I love that.
Thank you, Mark.
We're also gonna put a link toNational Community Church, so if
anyone is listening, you know,there Mark's sermons are
recorded from their church andyou can watch from home even if
you're not in the DC area.
So we'll make sure to put thatlink.
And I also wanna just mentionthat if anyone that is listening

(29:21):
to this and would like someprayer that would like to
believe in a miracle.
Please contact us at BelieveBig.
You know our advocates and arethere for you to pray for you
and just, you can email us atinfo@believebig.org or you can
call us at(888) 317-5850 and wewould love to pray for that

(29:42):
miracle for you.
So thank you Mark so much forjoining us.
Thank you for writing this bookand all the books that you write
to encourage us and you're sucha blessing to us and to so many.
So thank you.
Ah,

well Ivelisse, thank you.
And it really is a joy for Loraand I to be a part of the
Believe Big family and just Ihope that those who are
listening today just feel seen,heard and loved that.
I wanna tell you today, there,there's a God who collects our
tears in his bottle.

(30:15):
Your name is tattooed on thepalm of his hand, and, he
genuinely cares for you, lovesyou.
I hope you sense that and knowthat as we have this
conversation, a joy to be withyou and look forward to the next
one.

Yes, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Autumn Burns (30:33):
This podcast episode is made possible thanks
to the generous support of theGary L.
Zipper Charitable Giving Fund.

If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
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92-Mark Batterson - A Million Little Miracles

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}92-Mark Batterson - A Million Little Miracles