April 8, 2025 • 26 mins
This week on the Believe Big Podcast, we welcome Chris Joseph, an eight-and-a-half-year survivor of stage 3 pancreatic cancer who defied the odds—and the statistics—by completely transforming his approach to healing.
At one point, Chris was told that chemotherapy was his only real option. But when the treatment left him even sicker and failed to stop the cancer, he made a courageous decision: to take control of his health and walk a different path—one guided by faith, intentional living, and a commitment to his own well-being.
In this inspiring episode, Chris shares:
- The pivotal moment he knew he had to walk away from conventional treatment
- Why stepping into the role of CEO of your own health is essential
- The lifestyle and emotional changes that played a key role in his recovery
- A revealing look at cancer statistics—and why you shouldn't let them define your outcome
- How he's now guiding others as a coach and advocate to reclaim their power and pursue healing
Chris’s story is a testament to what can happen when you combine faith, courage, and a willingness to explore every avenue toward healing. You don’t want to miss this one.
Learn more about Chris here: Terrain Navigators
Suggested Resources:
- Chris’s website: terrainnavigators.com
- Book: Life Is A Ride: My Unconventional Journey of Cancer Recovery
- Upcoming Book: The Kitchen Sink Approach to Cancer
- Radical Remission Project: radicalremission.com
- The Metabolic Approach to Cancer by Dr. Nasha Winters
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
Today, we welcome to the podcastmy new friend Chris Joseph,
diagnosed in 2016.
Chris is an eight and a halfyear overcomer of stage three
(00:55):
pancreatic cancer.
With a village of support, Chrishealed himself using the
principles of the metabolicapproach to cancer and also the
10 factors of radical remission.
Now as a certified metabolicterrain advocate and a radical
remission certified healthcoach, I.
Chris utilizes these sameconcepts and teaching and
(01:17):
coaching cancer patients how totake charge of their health and
to find their pathway tohealing.
Chris is also a dad,environmental consultant,
thought-leader, public speaker,a founder of two music record
companies, and a nonprofithelping New Orleans artists and
(01:38):
musicians.
He is also the author of thebestselling memoir, Life Is A
Ride (01:43):
My Unconventional Journey of Cancer Recovery and is now
writing his next book, theKitchen Sink Approach to Cancer,
and Why You Shouldn't.
Always Listen To Your Doctor.
He can be reached atterrainnavigators.com.
Welcome to the show.
Chris Joseph (02:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
Ivelisse Page (02:04):
Yeah.
Well, we're so excited to speakwith you today.
It was so nice to meet you atthat conference and to hear your
story in person.
So thank you for coming on tothe podcast and sharing you
know, what you went through.
I know that our listeners willbe really excited to hear what
you have to say.
And so we always like to startwith our favorite health tip.
(02:25):
So I know you probably havemany, but what would you say is
your favorite?
Chris Joseph (02:30):
Um, before I answer, I will tell you that I
get asked that question all thetime.
Tell me what you did.
Tell me the number one thing youdid.
So, um, the number one thing isI, it, when you read my intro,
it was actually in the intro,and that is taking charge of
your health, being the CEO ofyour journey.
The day I quit chemo in early2017 after chemo wasn't working.
(02:57):
Day that changed my trajectoryand by the way, I want to be
clear, I'm not recommendinganyone quit chemo or anything
like that.
My journey is my journey When Itook charge of my health, that
was the game changer, and it'sthe number one thing I tell
people.
Ivelisse Page (03:11):
I completely agree.
Be your own advocate.
You know your body best and, youknow, follow your instincts and
make sure that you do what'sbest for you, no matter.
Chris Joseph (03:22):
Yeah.
Ivelisse Page (03:23):
You know, no matter who's saying what to you,
you know, what's best.
Um, yeah.
Intrinsic intrinsically, um, forme, I, I also sought guidance
from the Holy Spirit, and I feltlike prayer really helped me to
make those decisions as well.
Um, so I love that health tip somuch.
And so can you take us back toyour initial diagnosis in 2016?
(03:45):
Like what symptoms led you toeven seek medical attention?
Chris Joseph (03:49):
So in the summer of 2016, I was experiencing some
depression, pretty seriousdepression, which was unusual
'cause my life was going reallywell.
Um, I, I was in a goodrelationship.
My kids were doing well, I wasdoing well in the job.
Nothing abnormal, nothing tomake me sad, but I was
profoundly depressed and it wasunusual and I was worried about
(04:12):
it.
Concurrently I started losingweight.
And the third thing was I washaving lingering stomach issues.
It was never pain, but it wouldkeep me up at night.
I would actually go from likethe bed to the couch'cause I
couldn't sleep.
And so finally, after about amonth or so of all this, maybe a
couple months actually, I wentto my regular doctor.
(04:36):
He felt around, he said, oh, youshould go get a scan.
And so I went to get a scan onOctober 31st, Halloween day of
2016.
And that was when they told me Ihad stage three pancreatic
cancer.
Ivelisse Page (04:48):
Wow.
And so what were your firstthoughts?
What were your emotions?
Chris Joseph (04:52):
Well, I'm not allowed to cuss on this podcast,
but, but that, that's, that'swhat crossed my mind like, holy
crap.
Um, at fear.
I mean, it was profound fear.
Um, I was by myself.
Um, my ex-wife was actually inAustralia.
My girlfriend was at home, so Iwent to the appointment by
(05:16):
myself and, and so I had no onewith me.
The radiologist, usually theytake a week or two to give you
the results.
They told me like within anhour, and he didn't say much
about it.
He said, you have a, a big massin your pancreas, and that was
all he told me.
And so it, I mean, it was fear.
It was fear, and instantly Iwent into oh my God, I'm gonna
(05:36):
die.
Pancreatic cancer has such lousyoutcomes.
I didn't know the numbers, but Iknew they were bad.
And the hardest part, other thanhearing that news, the hardest
part that day was driving home.
I was supposed to take my kidsto their Halloween parties.
There were 14 and 12 at thetime, and I was driving home and
I was crying in the car.
And I, and I, I knew it wasgonna be the tough, toughest
(05:57):
conversation I'd ever had'causeI, I still get overwhelmed even
telling the story now.
And, and it turned out to be oneof the toughest conversations
that I ever had.
I, I told them what I knew,which wasn't much, but they
could see I was upset.
I was crying.
They held my hand, I held theirhand.
Sorry.
Um,
Ivelisse Page (06:19):
no, it's okay.
Chris Joseph (06:20):
And yeah, so the first day, I mean, the first
day, that part of it, eventhough it was a tough
conversation just to share thatlove with them, that was
amazing.
That was amazing and to see howmuch they cared.
And I didn't wanna scare themand I don't know that I did.
Uh, I'm sure they were worried,but, um, it was a good reminder
(06:41):
right away that this was gonnatake a village, which is another
tip.
It really does take a village togo through something like this.
Ivelisse Page (06:48):
Yeah.
You know, that's a question thatI get asked a lot is how did you
share that with your kids?
Like some people feel like theyneed to hide things until they
know more.
And that was my story where Ijust felt like it was important
to be upfront and honest withwhat was happening.
So how did you present that in away that didn't scare them, but
also let them know that it wasserious?
Chris Joseph (07:11):
I, I told them what the radiologist told me,
but they could see how I wasupset'cause I was crying when I
told them.
So they knew I was scared.
I told'em, I didn't really knowwhat it meant and I didn't, I
mean, they actually didn't saycancer to me at that moment at
the clinic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just told them the truth.
I told'em what I knew and Ididn't want to keep it a secret
(07:32):
from them.
I didn't want to keep it asecret from anyone.
I mean, once I knew it wascancer, once I knew what stage
it was, I, I started writingblogs.
I.
Within a week or two, um, I wasdoing, and that's right when
Facebook Live started.
So I was doing Facebook Lives,which were, you know, some
people didn't like watching, youknow, they, it made them
(07:56):
uncomfortable.
Some people thought it was verybrave.
I just knew I couldn't keep it asecret.
I was like, you, I couldn't doit.
Ivelisse Page (08:02):
Yeah.
And I think that in some waysyou help to encourage and
educate other people throughthat process, and everyone has a
different thought and that'sokay.
You know, some people are moreprivate and that's okay, and
others are more public like us,and that's okay too.
There's no right way to go aboutit.
It's what's best for you andyour situation.
And so knowing this, whattreatment options were you
(08:25):
initially presented with and howdid you decide on your approach?
Chris Joseph (08:30):
The only option they gave me upfront was
chemotherapy.
They said surgery wasn'tpossible because the tumor was
wrapped around an artery or avein.
I forget.
Um, they said radiation wasn'tpossible because of the same
location of that tumor.
So I did what most people do.
I listened to my doctor, um,sort of what we're trained to do
(08:53):
from birth, right?
The doctor knows best.
Sometimes they do.
Uh, I'm not here to criticizedoctors or western medicine, but
doctors don't know how I'mfeeling.
Doctors don't know my body.
Doctors don't know.
Sometimes they don't know a lotabout health.
Um, but I did.
I, you know, starting out, I didexactly what they told me to do,
which was chemo, and that I didit for about three or four
(09:16):
months.
Actually, I did it for twomonths.
It wasn't working.
I got a, a scan and the scanshowed the tumor was growing, so
I, they upped the chemo and thenI was just miserable and it
still wasn't working.
So, in March of 2017, that'swhen I took charge of my health
and quit, um, quit chemo.
(09:37):
Don't try this at home.
Listeners.
I quit chemo, fired myoncologist.
I have not talked to him since,and, um, didn't have a plan B.
At that time, I just thought,there's gotta be a plan B.
There has to be, but I didn'tknow it.
Ivelisse Page (09:51):
Yeah, and I think what a lot of people don't
realize is that conventionaloncologists can only offer three
things.
Surgery, chemo, and radiation.
Unless it's standard of carehere in the United States, they
can actually be sued if theyoffer anything outside of those
three things.
And so that's why it's solimited, and that's why at
(10:11):
Believe Big we're alwayssharing, you need a team, you
need a people that arespecialized in integrative
medicine, that specialize inintegrative oncology, and of
course an oncologist too thatcan help to monitor you when
it's important to do so.
And so, I love your bravery andyour courage.
When you stopped doing thechemotherapy and what did your
(10:34):
family say or how did, did you,how did you move to your next
step?
Chris Joseph (10:40):
Well, well, like I said, I was posting about it.
I was very public abouteverything and so I remember
even posting that I'm gonna quitchemo.
I don't know what I'm gonna do.
And I didn't at the time, knowwhat I was gonna do.
My family, everyone to my facerespected my decision, which was
really great.
It was really lovely.
Um, what they were thinking, Idon't know.
(11:01):
I mean, you know, there was apart of me that thought I was
crazy for doing it.
And had the chemo been working,I might have actually continued
with that, but I, I, I looked atthe, at the numbers and 70% of
pancreatic cancer patients aredead within a year.
I was in like the fourth monthand chemo wasn't working.
(11:21):
They didn't offer surgery, theydidn't offer radiation.
This is not a good trajectory.
So for me it wasn't really,wasn't that hard of a decision
for me, and it could have been adisaster.
I mean, there, as we know,there's nothing that's a hundred
percent guaranteed.
I could have quit and gone downsome other path and maybe it
wouldn't have worked.
Ivelisse Page (11:39):
Yeah, so I know everybody's situation is
different and I'm myself, I'mvery careful not to share
exactly what I did,'cause Idon't want people to feel like,
well, if I do what Ivelisse did,or if I do what Chris did, then
this is the result becauseeverybody's situation is
different.
And that's why integrativemedicine works best when it's
individualized and notstandardized.
(12:00):
And so, but what would you saywere the top three things that
you did to support your bodyinto healing?
Chris Joseph (12:08):
As I said, number one, taking charge of my health.
Number two, realizing that I hadto work my fanny off to get
healthy.
This is hard work and I'm acancer coach now, and I tell
people that right up front.
This is not for the passive thatthe people who put in the
effort, it's like when you weregoing to college, you get out of
it what you put into it.
(12:28):
And it's the same thing withyour health.
I think what I've learned, and Istarted learning it in 2017, is
I had to get healthier and so Ilearned how to eat healthier.
I was never a, a lousy eater.
Sometimes I was, but I mean,overall I was probably a little
better than average, but Ireally started paying attention
to what I was putting in mybody.
(12:49):
I started moving my body more.
I dealt with stress.
I had come out of a badmarriage, difficult marriage.
Uh, my company had fallen apartin 2010, which I'm sure
contributed to the stress thatled to, you know, one of the
contributing factors to cancer.
I just started paying attentionto my health more and being much
(13:10):
more mindful.
To be honest, I probably becamea little more selfish, because I
had to do that to stay alive.
But I figured in order to stayalive to, because I was the
breadwinner.
I need to do this.
Mm-hmm.
Otherwise I'm not gonna live.
And there's no other breadwinnerhere.
So it was a, it was sort of acombination of factors.
Um, no one thing.
Ivelisse Page (13:31):
Yes.
So physically you changed yourdiet.
Mm-hmm.
And, and then you did probably alot of emotional work in order
to get rid of all the stress andcertain things that you had
experienced that werephysiologically causing cortisol
and other things.
Mm-hmm.
And preventing your body fromhealing.
And so, wow.
That's just amazing to me thatyou also did not do surgery and
(13:52):
that you didn't do radiation andthat you are here doing these
simple things that turned yourlife around.
It's amazing.
Chris Joseph (14:02):
Yeah.
I, I wanna be fair, I actuallydid do a little bit more western
medicine.
Um, but when I quit chemo, thefirst thing I did was I went to
my integrative doctor, um,Melanie Giesler in Los Angeles,
and I started getting IVtherapies and learning more
about health.
Melanie wanted me to do keto.
And, uh, I didn't know at thetime she was actually consulting
(14:25):
with Dr.
Nasha Winters.
Mm-hmm.
That was before I knew, who knewwho Nasha was.
So Nasha actually consulted onmy case, but they wanted me to
do keto.
And, I always get a littletrouble for saying this, but I
never did keto.
and not, not because I don'tbelieve in it, I actually do,
strongly believe in it.
I was a single dad.
(14:45):
My kids were 14 and 12, and thebig thing is I don't cook.
And so it was just toochallenging.
Um, so when the suggestion wasmade to do keto, I said, ah, I
don't think I can do that.
But it didn't stop me fromeating healthier and eating low
carb and eating organic when Icould, which was much of the
(15:06):
time.
And cutting out processed foodsand really focusing on the low
carb.
I mean, I was probably inketosis many times.
I never tested myself back then,but I'm sure I was in ketosis
sometimes.
Ivelisse Page (15:20):
Yeah.
If someone is listening rightnow and is facing a pancreatic
cancer diagnosis, what advicewould you give them?
Chris Joseph (15:28):
What a great question.
I mean, the first thing I tellthem is that, ignore the
numbers.
Ignore the stats.
Those are just stats.
Um, I get so angry when doctorstell patients, oh, you have six
months to live, or whatever itis.
I mean, the, the honest thingthat doctors could do would be
to say, I don't know what else Ican do for you, because that
(15:49):
really would be honest.
And what more do we want fromour providers is just tell us
the truth.
Truth is they have hit theirlevel, their limit of knowledge.
And then what I think theyshould say is, but you might
wanna try an alternative doctoror something like that.
Um, now I forgot what yourquestion was.
I went off on the
Ivelisse Page (16:08):
No, what, you know, what would advice, would
you give someone with apancreatic cancer diagnose?
Mm-hmm.
Chris Joseph (16:15):
Ignore the numbers, as I said.
Start getting healthier.
Start getting healthier.
I mean, 90 some upwards of 90%of cancers are environmental and
lifestyle cause not hereditary.
And to me that's an opportunity.
That's an opportunity.
Like, oh, okay, if I was eating,you know, maybe part of this was
I was eating louy.
(16:35):
Okay, I'm gonna start eatinghealthier, I'm gonna move my
body more.
If it was hereditary, I don'tknow what else I could do.
Right?
I mean, I, maybe the samethings, but I would feel more
limited and more helpless.
Environmental and lifestyle gotme here.
So environmental and lifestyle'sgonna get me outta this too.
Ivelisse Page (16:51):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chris Joseph (16:52):
And it turned out to be true.
Ivelisse Page (16:54):
Yeah.
And even for those that do havea genetic, you know, I fell into
that 5%, uh, genetics.
And you know, I believe you canswitch on and off those genes
depending on what you do aswell.
So the same things apply toboth.
Yeah.
I believe whether it's geneticor not.
And so, you know, what you do isso important and so, you now
(17:14):
coach and teach others who arefacing all types of cancers,
correct?
Not just pancreatic cancer.
You help all cancers?
Chris Joseph (17:22):
I do.
I mean, I, I've sort of become ago-to person on the pancreatic
cancer side, um, because peoplehave heard about my journey from
me being so public about it orwriting the book or doing
podcasts.
I work with people with alltypes of cancers.
It almost, in some respects,doesn't matter what the cancer
is'cause I'm, I'm not teachingthe same things.
(17:45):
Everyone, as you pointed out,everyone's journey is
individual.
I don't exactly know until Italk to someone what might be,
what might be best for them.
Ivelisse Page (17:54):
What is one of the most rewarding aspect of
this work?
Chris Joseph (17:58):
Um, when I see people willing to do the work,
when I see people who arewilling to question what they're
doing, when I see people willingto question their doctors, their
healthcare providers, I wantthem to question me.
I don't want them to take what Isay from face value.
And so I can often tell the oneswho are willing to do that.
(18:23):
Obviously it's gratifying to seesome, see some people do well,
some people do not.
I mean, that's just the reality.
I've learned as a coach over theyears now that, I It's their
journey.
Ivelisse Page (18:34):
Yes.
Yeah.
It's their journey.
I agree.
And so now that you are aterrain advocate and also a
radical remission coach, how arethose similar?
Or, or how are they different inwhat you teach people?
Chris Joseph (18:47):
The part that I work with, it's all lifestyle,
it's all, you know, it's mental,emotional.
Those buckets are the same,whether it's Radical Remission
or, or Metabolic TerrainInstitute of Health.
Um, eating healthy is in bothcamps?
Exercises In both camps.
Yeah.
There's lots of overlap.
In fact I'm working with bothgroups to try and get them to
(19:10):
work together even more thanthey already have.
But yeah, there's, there's tonsof overlap.
Maybe how it's approach might bea little different, but yeah.
There's a lot of overlap.
Ivelisse Page (19:20):
Yes.
Yes.
And you're writing a new booknow, the Kitchen Sink Approach
to Cancer.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat.
Chris Joseph (19:27):
So the first book that I wrote in 2020, and the
reason I wrote that book, thebiggest reason was I wrote it
for my kids.
It turned out they haven't readit.
Um, I'm sure they will at somepoint, but their response was
they lived it so they don't haveto read it, and they're not
wrong about that.
Um, but I, I knew I had a goodstory with pancreatic cancer, so
that's why I wrote that book.
(19:49):
And I, I wrote it.
in memoir form.
Because people can't reallyargue with memoir.
Your story is your story.
I mean, it's possible.
I got a fact wrong here orthere, and I'm sure I did, but
no one could argue with myjourney and I didn't really
wanna argue with people.
If I would've used it as aplatform, people can argue with
that.
So that was 2020.
2025, I'm not nearly as shyabout trying to advocate for
(20:14):
better health and alternativecancer care, and just getting
people healthy, healthier ingeneral.
Um, can I bring up somethingwhich might sound a little
controversial?
Sure.
But it's not, I promise you.
I, I, when I talk to people, Ibring up covid and people get
triggered by vaccines and masksand lockdowns.
(20:37):
Even years later, they, it'sstill a triggering thing.
I don't talk about any of thosethings.
I have my opinions, but I don'ttalk about them.
But I bring up Covid with peopleand now with you because Covid
shined a light on how unhealthythis country is.
And we really didn't do muchabout it.
In fact, we were sort of toldthe opposite, you know, stay
indoors and bake, and then itcouldn't have been worse advice.
(21:01):
And so part of my journey is tonot only help cancer patients,
but to just talk about health ingeneral and to talk about the
importance of getting healthier.
I know you know this, doing whatyou do.
I mean, this is a profoundlyunhealthy country, and I don't
say that with criticism.
It's just the truth.
And so why am I writing thisother book?
(21:21):
The new book will be more notjust memoir, but opinions
hopefully backed up as by asmuch science as I can.
But I am now much morecourageous about like, Hey, what
we're doing over here it's notreally working.
Yeah, it's not really working.
Ivelisse Page (21:38):
Yeah.
And I, I think it really didshow how unhealthy our country
is, and it made it unhealthierbecause like you said, people
were inside, they weren'toutside exercising and doing all
the things that they, they did.
But I think one of the positivesthat happened through COVID was
that people are questioning andasking more questions now than
they used to before blindly takethings or, uh, you know, as far
(22:01):
as their health, they're takingmore control of their health and
being more curious.
And I think that is a positivething for our country.
And I do hope that it turnsaround because the obesity rates
have skyrocketed and mm-hmm.
And just even, the healthoverall in our country.
So, so, yeah.
I'm so glad that you will beaddressing that in your, in your
(22:22):
next book.
So if you had to look back.
Right now, what would be onething you would've changed?
If you back then, if you knowwhat you knew now, what would
you have changed starting out?
Chris Joseph (22:34):
I'm gonna give this, um, qualifier upfront.
I do not advise other people tofollow my journey.
Um, but if I could go back anddo one thing differently, I
would not have done chemo.
I were to started out right awaydoing alternative stuff.
Yeah.
And that's not to say that chemocan't help some people.
I've actually seen it help somepeople, so that's why I wanna be
(22:56):
fair about that.
But for me, it was not helping,it was hurting.
I was going, I was on atrajectory to die of chemo
before I was gonna die ofcancer.
So, yeah, I, and, and go ahead.
Ivelisse Page (23:09):
Yeah, and I said that's why the, that it's really
important to ask those rightquestions and like it was not
effective or being effective foryou.
And so, you know, I always tellpeople before if I would've even
considered that, I would've donea test to determine whether or
not my tumor would've beenreceptive to that.
And they do have sensitivitytests that can test different
(23:31):
types of chemotherapy beforeyour body undergoes that kind
of, treatment and breaking itdown to see if it would even be
effective.
So there are several of thosetests that even conventional
hospitals can do that can reallyhelp to determine and answer
those questions for patients,which I find helpful now.
Chris Joseph (23:50):
Yeah, I think it's great.
My, my first oncologist.
I'm gonna guess he knew aboutthose tests, but chose not to
run them.
It was Dr.
Giesler, who my in integrativedoctor, who did run those tests
for me and found the, yes, mybody does not do a good job of
flushing out toxins and we knowchemo is a toxin.
(24:12):
So yeah, it was not right forme.
Ivelisse Page (24:15):
Yeah.
So as we close, um, looking backon the last eight and a half
years, what has this journeytaught you about life,
resilience and healing?
Chris Joseph (24:27):
If you would've told me, or if anyone would've
told me eight and a half yearsago that my life would be better
after getting diagnosed withpancreatic cancer, I would've
said crazy.
That's not possible.
My life is better.
My life is richer.
In some ways it's more fun.
I mean, I wish I could haveachieved all this and, and
experienced all of this withouthaving the cancer, but you know,
(24:50):
that was what it was.
That's what propelled me intothis, this healing journey.
So my life's better.
It's better.
I'm much more aware now.
I'm much more awake.
I'm much more mindful than Iused to be.
And I, and I wanna be clearalso, I'm not, I'm not on a
soapbox.
I have much to learn, much tolearn.
Um, I'm on a journey just likeeveryone else is, but my life's
(25:12):
better.
I know that it's better.
Ivelisse Page (25:15):
That's great.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And would you want thediagnosis?
Absolutely not.
But on the other side of it, yousee all of God's graces.
I believe that he turns paininto purpose, and I see that in
your life to now where you'reusing it to bless so many people
and encourage and teach and helpthem to overcome their cancers.
(25:38):
And so thank you, Chris, forwhat you do every day.
For the patients that reach outto you, we will definitely put
links to contact you and to yourwebsite so that people can
easily get ahold of you if theyhave additional questions after
listening to this podcast.
But thank you for joining ustoday.
Chris Joseph (25:56):
Thank you.
Ivelisse Page (26:04):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit BelieveBig.orgto access to show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
Today, we welcome to the podcastmy new friend Chris Joseph,
diagnosed in 2016.
Chris is an eight and a halfyear overcomer of stage three
(00:55):
pancreatic cancer.
With a village of support, Chrishealed himself using the
principles of the metabolicapproach to cancer and also the
10 factors of radical remission.
Now as a certified metabolicterrain advocate and a radical
remission certified healthcoach, I.
Chris utilizes these sameconcepts and teaching and
(01:17):
coaching cancer patients how totake charge of their health and
to find their pathway tohealing.
Chris is also a dad,environmental consultant,
thought-leader, public speaker,a founder of two music record
companies, and a nonprofithelping New Orleans artists and
(01:38):
musicians.
He is also the author of thebestselling memoir, Life Is A
Ride (01:43):
My Unconventional Journey of Cancer Recovery and is now
writing his next book, theKitchen Sink Approach to Cancer,
and Why You Shouldn't.
Always Listen To Your Doctor.
He can be reached atterrainnavigators.com.
Welcome to the show.
Chris Joseph (02:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
Ivelisse Page (02:04):
Yeah.
Well, we're so excited to speakwith you today.
It was so nice to meet you atthat conference and to hear your
story in person.
So thank you for coming on tothe podcast and sharing you
know, what you went through.
I know that our listeners willbe really excited to hear what
you have to say.
And so we always like to startwith our favorite health tip.
(02:25):
So I know you probably havemany, but what would you say is
your favorite?
Chris Joseph (02:30):
Um, before I answer, I will tell you that I
get asked that question all thetime.
Tell me what you did.
Tell me the number one thing youdid.
So, um, the number one thing isI, it, when you read my intro,
it was actually in the intro,and that is taking charge of
your health, being the CEO ofyour journey.
The day I quit chemo in early2017 after chemo wasn't working.
(02:57):
Day that changed my trajectoryand by the way, I want to be
clear, I'm not recommendinganyone quit chemo or anything
like that.
My journey is my journey When Itook charge of my health, that
was the game changer, and it'sthe number one thing I tell
people.
Ivelisse Page (03:11):
I completely agree.
Be your own advocate.
You know your body best and, youknow, follow your instincts and
make sure that you do what'sbest for you, no matter.
Chris Joseph (03:22):
Yeah.
Ivelisse Page (03:23):
You know, no matter who's saying what to you,
you know, what's best.
Um, yeah.
Intrinsic intrinsically, um, forme, I, I also sought guidance
from the Holy Spirit, and I feltlike prayer really helped me to
make those decisions as well.
Um, so I love that health tip somuch.
And so can you take us back toyour initial diagnosis in 2016?
(03:45):
Like what symptoms led you toeven seek medical attention?
Chris Joseph (03:49):
So in the summer of 2016, I was experiencing some
depression, pretty seriousdepression, which was unusual
'cause my life was going reallywell.
Um, I, I was in a goodrelationship.
My kids were doing well, I wasdoing well in the job.
Nothing abnormal, nothing tomake me sad, but I was
profoundly depressed and it wasunusual and I was worried about
(04:12):
it.
Concurrently I started losingweight.
And the third thing was I washaving lingering stomach issues.
It was never pain, but it wouldkeep me up at night.
I would actually go from likethe bed to the couch'cause I
couldn't sleep.
And so finally, after about amonth or so of all this, maybe a
couple months actually, I wentto my regular doctor.
(04:36):
He felt around, he said, oh, youshould go get a scan.
And so I went to get a scan onOctober 31st, Halloween day of
2016.
And that was when they told me Ihad stage three pancreatic
cancer.
Ivelisse Page (04:48):
Wow.
And so what were your firstthoughts?
What were your emotions?
Chris Joseph (04:52):
Well, I'm not allowed to cuss on this podcast,
but, but that, that's, that'swhat crossed my mind like, holy
crap.
Um, at fear.
I mean, it was profound fear.
Um, I was by myself.
Um, my ex-wife was actually inAustralia.
My girlfriend was at home, so Iwent to the appointment by
(05:16):
myself and, and so I had no onewith me.
The radiologist, usually theytake a week or two to give you
the results.
They told me like within anhour, and he didn't say much
about it.
He said, you have a, a big massin your pancreas, and that was
all he told me.
And so it, I mean, it was fear.
It was fear, and instantly Iwent into oh my God, I'm gonna
(05:36):
die.
Pancreatic cancer has such lousyoutcomes.
I didn't know the numbers, but Iknew they were bad.
And the hardest part, other thanhearing that news, the hardest
part that day was driving home.
I was supposed to take my kidsto their Halloween parties.
There were 14 and 12 at thetime, and I was driving home and
I was crying in the car.
And I, and I, I knew it wasgonna be the tough, toughest
(05:57):
conversation I'd ever had'causeI, I still get overwhelmed even
telling the story now.
And, and it turned out to be oneof the toughest conversations
that I ever had.
I, I told them what I knew,which wasn't much, but they
could see I was upset.
I was crying.
They held my hand, I held theirhand.
Sorry.
Um,
Ivelisse Page (06:19):
no, it's okay.
Chris Joseph (06:20):
And yeah, so the first day, I mean, the first
day, that part of it, eventhough it was a tough
conversation just to share thatlove with them, that was
amazing.
That was amazing and to see howmuch they cared.
And I didn't wanna scare themand I don't know that I did.
Uh, I'm sure they were worried,but, um, it was a good reminder
(06:41):
right away that this was gonnatake a village, which is another
tip.
It really does take a village togo through something like this.
Ivelisse Page (06:48):
Yeah.
You know, that's a question thatI get asked a lot is how did you
share that with your kids?
Like some people feel like theyneed to hide things until they
know more.
And that was my story where Ijust felt like it was important
to be upfront and honest withwhat was happening.
So how did you present that in away that didn't scare them, but
also let them know that it wasserious?
Chris Joseph (07:11):
I, I told them what the radiologist told me,
but they could see how I wasupset'cause I was crying when I
told them.
So they knew I was scared.
I told'em, I didn't really knowwhat it meant and I didn't, I
mean, they actually didn't saycancer to me at that moment at
the clinic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just told them the truth.
I told'em what I knew and Ididn't want to keep it a secret
(07:32):
from them.
I didn't want to keep it asecret from anyone.
I mean, once I knew it wascancer, once I knew what stage
it was, I, I started writingblogs.
I.
Within a week or two, um, I wasdoing, and that's right when
Facebook Live started.
So I was doing Facebook Lives,which were, you know, some
people didn't like watching, youknow, they, it made them
(07:56):
uncomfortable.
Some people thought it was verybrave.
I just knew I couldn't keep it asecret.
I was like, you, I couldn't doit.
Ivelisse Page (08:02):
Yeah.
And I think that in some waysyou help to encourage and
educate other people throughthat process, and everyone has a
different thought and that'sokay.
You know, some people are moreprivate and that's okay, and
others are more public like us,and that's okay too.
There's no right way to go aboutit.
It's what's best for you andyour situation.
And so knowing this, whattreatment options were you
(08:25):
initially presented with and howdid you decide on your approach?
Chris Joseph (08:30):
The only option they gave me upfront was
chemotherapy.
They said surgery wasn'tpossible because the tumor was
wrapped around an artery or avein.
I forget.
Um, they said radiation wasn'tpossible because of the same
location of that tumor.
So I did what most people do.
I listened to my doctor, um,sort of what we're trained to do
(08:53):
from birth, right?
The doctor knows best.
Sometimes they do.
Uh, I'm not here to criticizedoctors or western medicine, but
doctors don't know how I'mfeeling.
Doctors don't know my body.
Doctors don't know.
Sometimes they don't know a lotabout health.
Um, but I did.
I, you know, starting out, I didexactly what they told me to do,
which was chemo, and that I didit for about three or four
(09:16):
months.
Actually, I did it for twomonths.
It wasn't working.
I got a, a scan and the scanshowed the tumor was growing, so
I, they upped the chemo and thenI was just miserable and it
still wasn't working.
So, in March of 2017, that'swhen I took charge of my health
and quit, um, quit chemo.
(09:37):
Don't try this at home.
Listeners.
I quit chemo, fired myoncologist.
I have not talked to him since,and, um, didn't have a plan B.
At that time, I just thought,there's gotta be a plan B.
There has to be, but I didn'tknow it.
Ivelisse Page (09:51):
Yeah, and I think what a lot of people don't
realize is that conventionaloncologists can only offer three
things.
Surgery, chemo, and radiation.
Unless it's standard of carehere in the United States, they
can actually be sued if theyoffer anything outside of those
three things.
And so that's why it's solimited, and that's why at
(10:11):
Believe Big we're alwayssharing, you need a team, you
need a people that arespecialized in integrative
medicine, that specialize inintegrative oncology, and of
course an oncologist too thatcan help to monitor you when
it's important to do so.
And so, I love your bravery andyour courage.
When you stopped doing thechemotherapy and what did your
(10:34):
family say or how did, did you,how did you move to your next
step?
Chris Joseph (10:40):
Well, well, like I said, I was posting about it.
I was very public abouteverything and so I remember
even posting that I'm gonna quitchemo.
I don't know what I'm gonna do.
And I didn't at the time, knowwhat I was gonna do.
My family, everyone to my facerespected my decision, which was
really great.
It was really lovely.
Um, what they were thinking, Idon't know.
(11:01):
I mean, you know, there was apart of me that thought I was
crazy for doing it.
And had the chemo been working,I might have actually continued
with that, but I, I, I looked atthe, at the numbers and 70% of
pancreatic cancer patients aredead within a year.
I was in like the fourth monthand chemo wasn't working.
(11:21):
They didn't offer surgery, theydidn't offer radiation.
This is not a good trajectory.
So for me it wasn't really,wasn't that hard of a decision
for me, and it could have been adisaster.
I mean, there, as we know,there's nothing that's a hundred
percent guaranteed.
I could have quit and gone downsome other path and maybe it
wouldn't have worked.
Ivelisse Page (11:39):
Yeah, so I know everybody's situation is
different and I'm myself, I'mvery careful not to share
exactly what I did,'cause Idon't want people to feel like,
well, if I do what Ivelisse did,or if I do what Chris did, then
this is the result becauseeverybody's situation is
different.
And that's why integrativemedicine works best when it's
individualized and notstandardized.
(12:00):
And so, but what would you saywere the top three things that
you did to support your bodyinto healing?
Chris Joseph (12:08):
As I said, number one, taking charge of my health.
Number two, realizing that I hadto work my fanny off to get
healthy.
This is hard work and I'm acancer coach now, and I tell
people that right up front.
This is not for the passive thatthe people who put in the
effort, it's like when you weregoing to college, you get out of
it what you put into it.
(12:28):
And it's the same thing withyour health.
I think what I've learned, and Istarted learning it in 2017, is
I had to get healthier and so Ilearned how to eat healthier.
I was never a, a lousy eater.
Sometimes I was, but I mean,overall I was probably a little
better than average, but Ireally started paying attention
to what I was putting in mybody.
(12:49):
I started moving my body more.
I dealt with stress.
I had come out of a badmarriage, difficult marriage.
Uh, my company had fallen apartin 2010, which I'm sure
contributed to the stress thatled to, you know, one of the
contributing factors to cancer.
I just started paying attentionto my health more and being much
(13:10):
more mindful.
To be honest, I probably becamea little more selfish, because I
had to do that to stay alive.
But I figured in order to stayalive to, because I was the
breadwinner.
I need to do this.
Mm-hmm.
Otherwise I'm not gonna live.
And there's no other breadwinnerhere.
So it was a, it was sort of acombination of factors.
Um, no one thing.
Ivelisse Page (13:31):
Yes.
So physically you changed yourdiet.
Mm-hmm.
And, and then you did probably alot of emotional work in order
to get rid of all the stress andcertain things that you had
experienced that werephysiologically causing cortisol
and other things.
Mm-hmm.
And preventing your body fromhealing.
And so, wow.
That's just amazing to me thatyou also did not do surgery and
(13:52):
that you didn't do radiation andthat you are here doing these
simple things that turned yourlife around.
It's amazing.
Chris Joseph (14:02):
Yeah.
I, I wanna be fair, I actuallydid do a little bit more western
medicine.
Um, but when I quit chemo, thefirst thing I did was I went to
my integrative doctor, um,Melanie Giesler in Los Angeles,
and I started getting IVtherapies and learning more
about health.
Melanie wanted me to do keto.
And, uh, I didn't know at thetime she was actually consulting
(14:25):
with Dr.
Nasha Winters.
Mm-hmm.
That was before I knew, who knewwho Nasha was.
So Nasha actually consulted onmy case, but they wanted me to
do keto.
And, I always get a littletrouble for saying this, but I
never did keto.
and not, not because I don'tbelieve in it, I actually do,
strongly believe in it.
I was a single dad.
(14:45):
My kids were 14 and 12, and thebig thing is I don't cook.
And so it was just toochallenging.
Um, so when the suggestion wasmade to do keto, I said, ah, I
don't think I can do that.
But it didn't stop me fromeating healthier and eating low
carb and eating organic when Icould, which was much of the
(15:06):
time.
And cutting out processed foodsand really focusing on the low
carb.
I mean, I was probably inketosis many times.
I never tested myself back then,but I'm sure I was in ketosis
sometimes.
Ivelisse Page (15:20):
Yeah.
If someone is listening rightnow and is facing a pancreatic
cancer diagnosis, what advicewould you give them?
Chris Joseph (15:28):
What a great question.
I mean, the first thing I tellthem is that, ignore the
numbers.
Ignore the stats.
Those are just stats.
Um, I get so angry when doctorstell patients, oh, you have six
months to live, or whatever itis.
I mean, the, the honest thingthat doctors could do would be
to say, I don't know what else Ican do for you, because that
(15:49):
really would be honest.
And what more do we want fromour providers is just tell us
the truth.
Truth is they have hit theirlevel, their limit of knowledge.
And then what I think theyshould say is, but you might
wanna try an alternative doctoror something like that.
Um, now I forgot what yourquestion was.
I went off on the
Ivelisse Page (16:08):
No, what, you know, what would advice, would
you give someone with apancreatic cancer diagnose?
Mm-hmm.
Chris Joseph (16:15):
Ignore the numbers, as I said.
Start getting healthier.
Start getting healthier.
I mean, 90 some upwards of 90%of cancers are environmental and
lifestyle cause not hereditary.
And to me that's an opportunity.
That's an opportunity.
Like, oh, okay, if I was eating,you know, maybe part of this was
I was eating louy.
(16:35):
Okay, I'm gonna start eatinghealthier, I'm gonna move my
body more.
If it was hereditary, I don'tknow what else I could do.
Right?
I mean, I, maybe the samethings, but I would feel more
limited and more helpless.
Environmental and lifestyle gotme here.
So environmental and lifestyle'sgonna get me outta this too.
Ivelisse Page (16:51):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chris Joseph (16:52):
And it turned out to be true.
Ivelisse Page (16:54):
Yeah.
And even for those that do havea genetic, you know, I fell into
that 5%, uh, genetics.
And you know, I believe you canswitch on and off those genes
depending on what you do aswell.
So the same things apply toboth.
Yeah.
I believe whether it's geneticor not.
And so, you know, what you do isso important and so, you now
(17:14):
coach and teach others who arefacing all types of cancers,
correct?
Not just pancreatic cancer.
You help all cancers?
Chris Joseph (17:22):
I do.
I mean, I, I've sort of become ago-to person on the pancreatic
cancer side, um, because peoplehave heard about my journey from
me being so public about it orwriting the book or doing
podcasts.
I work with people with alltypes of cancers.
It almost, in some respects,doesn't matter what the cancer
is'cause I'm, I'm not teachingthe same things.
(17:45):
Everyone, as you pointed out,everyone's journey is
individual.
I don't exactly know until Italk to someone what might be,
what might be best for them.
Ivelisse Page (17:54):
What is one of the most rewarding aspect of
this work?
Chris Joseph (17:58):
Um, when I see people willing to do the work,
when I see people who arewilling to question what they're
doing, when I see people willingto question their doctors, their
healthcare providers, I wantthem to question me.
I don't want them to take what Isay from face value.
And so I can often tell the oneswho are willing to do that.
(18:23):
Obviously it's gratifying to seesome, see some people do well,
some people do not.
I mean, that's just the reality.
I've learned as a coach over theyears now that, I It's their
journey.
Ivelisse Page (18:34):
Yes.
Yeah.
It's their journey.
I agree.
And so now that you are aterrain advocate and also a
radical remission coach, how arethose similar?
Or, or how are they different inwhat you teach people?
Chris Joseph (18:47):
The part that I work with, it's all lifestyle,
it's all, you know, it's mental,emotional.
Those buckets are the same,whether it's Radical Remission
or, or Metabolic TerrainInstitute of Health.
Um, eating healthy is in bothcamps?
Exercises In both camps.
Yeah.
There's lots of overlap.
In fact I'm working with bothgroups to try and get them to
(19:10):
work together even more thanthey already have.
But yeah, there's, there's tonsof overlap.
Maybe how it's approach might bea little different, but yeah.
There's a lot of overlap.
Ivelisse Page (19:20):
Yes.
Yes.
And you're writing a new booknow, the Kitchen Sink Approach
to Cancer.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat.
Chris Joseph (19:27):
So the first book that I wrote in 2020, and the
reason I wrote that book, thebiggest reason was I wrote it
for my kids.
It turned out they haven't readit.
Um, I'm sure they will at somepoint, but their response was
they lived it so they don't haveto read it, and they're not
wrong about that.
Um, but I, I knew I had a goodstory with pancreatic cancer, so
that's why I wrote that book.
(19:49):
And I, I wrote it.
in memoir form.
Because people can't reallyargue with memoir.
Your story is your story.
I mean, it's possible.
I got a fact wrong here orthere, and I'm sure I did, but
no one could argue with myjourney and I didn't really
wanna argue with people.
If I would've used it as aplatform, people can argue with
that.
So that was 2020.
2025, I'm not nearly as shyabout trying to advocate for
(20:14):
better health and alternativecancer care, and just getting
people healthy, healthier ingeneral.
Um, can I bring up somethingwhich might sound a little
controversial?
Sure.
But it's not, I promise you.
I, I, when I talk to people, Ibring up covid and people get
triggered by vaccines and masksand lockdowns.
(20:37):
Even years later, they, it'sstill a triggering thing.
I don't talk about any of thosethings.
I have my opinions, but I don'ttalk about them.
But I bring up Covid with peopleand now with you because Covid
shined a light on how unhealthythis country is.
And we really didn't do muchabout it.
In fact, we were sort of toldthe opposite, you know, stay
indoors and bake, and then itcouldn't have been worse advice.
(21:01):
And so part of my journey is tonot only help cancer patients,
but to just talk about health ingeneral and to talk about the
importance of getting healthier.
I know you know this, doing whatyou do.
I mean, this is a profoundlyunhealthy country, and I don't
say that with criticism.
It's just the truth.
And so why am I writing thisother book?
(21:21):
The new book will be more notjust memoir, but opinions
hopefully backed up as by asmuch science as I can.
But I am now much morecourageous about like, Hey, what
we're doing over here it's notreally working.
Yeah, it's not really working.
Ivelisse Page (21:38):
Yeah.
And I, I think it really didshow how unhealthy our country
is, and it made it unhealthierbecause like you said, people
were inside, they weren'toutside exercising and doing all
the things that they, they did.
But I think one of the positivesthat happened through COVID was
that people are questioning andasking more questions now than
they used to before blindly takethings or, uh, you know, as far
(22:01):
as their health, they're takingmore control of their health and
being more curious.
And I think that is a positivething for our country.
And I do hope that it turnsaround because the obesity rates
have skyrocketed and mm-hmm.
And just even, the healthoverall in our country.
So, so, yeah.
I'm so glad that you will beaddressing that in your, in your
(22:22):
next book.
So if you had to look back.
Right now, what would be onething you would've changed?
If you back then, if you knowwhat you knew now, what would
you have changed starting out?
Chris Joseph (22:34):
I'm gonna give this, um, qualifier upfront.
I do not advise other people tofollow my journey.
Um, but if I could go back anddo one thing differently, I
would not have done chemo.
I were to started out right awaydoing alternative stuff.
Yeah.
And that's not to say that chemocan't help some people.
I've actually seen it help somepeople, so that's why I wanna be
(22:56):
fair about that.
But for me, it was not helping,it was hurting.
I was going, I was on atrajectory to die of chemo
before I was gonna die ofcancer.
So, yeah, I, and, and go ahead.
Ivelisse Page (23:09):
Yeah, and I said that's why the, that it's really
important to ask those rightquestions and like it was not
effective or being effective foryou.
And so, you know, I always tellpeople before if I would've even
considered that, I would've donea test to determine whether or
not my tumor would've beenreceptive to that.
And they do have sensitivitytests that can test different
(23:31):
types of chemotherapy beforeyour body undergoes that kind
of, treatment and breaking itdown to see if it would even be
effective.
So there are several of thosetests that even conventional
hospitals can do that can reallyhelp to determine and answer
those questions for patients,which I find helpful now.
Chris Joseph (23:50):
Yeah, I think it's great.
My, my first oncologist.
I'm gonna guess he knew aboutthose tests, but chose not to
run them.
It was Dr.
Giesler, who my in integrativedoctor, who did run those tests
for me and found the, yes, mybody does not do a good job of
flushing out toxins and we knowchemo is a toxin.
(24:12):
So yeah, it was not right forme.
Ivelisse Page (24:15):
Yeah.
So as we close, um, looking backon the last eight and a half
years, what has this journeytaught you about life,
resilience and healing?
Chris Joseph (24:27):
If you would've told me, or if anyone would've
told me eight and a half yearsago that my life would be better
after getting diagnosed withpancreatic cancer, I would've
said crazy.
That's not possible.
My life is better.
My life is richer.
In some ways it's more fun.
I mean, I wish I could haveachieved all this and, and
experienced all of this withouthaving the cancer, but you know,
(24:50):
that was what it was.
That's what propelled me intothis, this healing journey.
So my life's better.
It's better.
I'm much more aware now.
I'm much more awake.
I'm much more mindful than Iused to be.
And I, and I wanna be clearalso, I'm not, I'm not on a
soapbox.
I have much to learn, much tolearn.
Um, I'm on a journey just likeeveryone else is, but my life's
(25:12):
better.
I know that it's better.
Ivelisse Page (25:15):
That's great.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And would you want thediagnosis?
Absolutely not.
But on the other side of it, yousee all of God's graces.
I believe that he turns paininto purpose, and I see that in
your life to now where you'reusing it to bless so many people
and encourage and teach and helpthem to overcome their cancers.
(25:38):
And so thank you, Chris, forwhat you do every day.
For the patients that reach outto you, we will definitely put
links to contact you and to yourwebsite so that people can
easily get ahold of you if theyhave additional questions after
listening to this podcast.
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