January 6, 2021 • 42 mins
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BBC News
Rendlesham Forest UFO sighting 'new evidence' claim
July 13, 2015
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-33447592
Encounter in Rendlesham Forest: The Inside Story of the World's Best-Documented UFO Incident
by Nick Pope (Author), John Burroughs (Author), Jim Penniston (Author)
April 15, 2014
https://www.amazon.com/Encounter-Rendlesham-Forest-Best-Documented-Incident/dp/1250038103
Fade to Black with Jimmy Church
Episode 576, Jimmy Church w/ John Burroughs : Rendlesham Revisited
December 21, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-bqYvtEkiM
Fade to Black with Jimmy Church
Episode 982 Jimmy Church w/ John Burroughs : Rendlesham The Last Word
January 23, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WQkBtdEqNk
Ministry of Defence
The National Archives
Archived on 10 Nov 2012
UAP in the UK Air Defence Region: Volume 2
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-33447592
The Basement Office
Episode 5 | Rendlesham Forest UFO Incident Part 1 | Real evidence & witnesses | The Basement Office
Premiered Jun 26, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5tIevquP0
The Basement Office
Episode 6 | Rendlesham Forest UFO encounter Part 2 | Binary Code & Jim Penniston
Premiered July 10, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaYfsxbiKsM
Unsolved Mysteries
Season 4, Episode 1
Bentwaters UFO (Pts. 1 & 2)
https://unsolved.com/gallery/bentwaters-ufo/
UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record
By Leslie Kean
https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Generals-Pilots-Government-Officials/dp/0307717089
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
While on patrol airman, John Burroughs went to
meet up with his Sergeant.
It was an opportunity to get toknow his superior riding around
the perimeter of the Woodbridge,rural air force base.
He saw something in settlingthat would change his life
forever to kill your light shonein the dark of night in
Rendlesham forest at warrantedinvestigation, what he and his
fellow servicemen saw wouldbecome one of the most
(00:21):
well-documented UFO sightings,high ranking officials in the
world.
Jen, how are you?
My friend?
Hey, I'm doing great.
How are you?
I'm doing great.
I'm excited about tonight'sstory.
So am I I'm excited because ithas an extra terrestrial flare
(00:43):
and I don't think we've actuallywe did.
We just did.
Um, we did.
USO's the swimmers of Lake bycall.
Yeah.
We just did the, the swimmers ofLake by call and USO's, but
there's just so much to cover onUAPs and UFO's or whatever you
want to call them.
And, um, USO's yeah, no, I'mexcited for tonight.
And this is for the second time,you're the person doing the one
(01:05):
on the UAPs or UFO's again,whatever, whatever your
nomenclature of choices, but Ireally want to do a story on
them at some point soon.
So, cause I'm, I'm fascinated metoo.
And I think we're being preparedfor, for the big one.
I think something big is goingto happen.
You do you think be in 2020,maybe in 2021 that we're going
(01:27):
to be visited, they might giveus a year.
I mean, Jesus 2020 was just,that's just too much.
Yeah, that's true.
By the way, this is, this isthis, our first episode of the
new year.
It is so happy new year to allour listeners.
Absolutely.
We hope that it is a better newyear than the one we've just
(01:47):
come out of.
I mean, it was a challengingyear.
I still feel like, you know,there were a few bright spots
actually for me, the podcast wasone of the biggest bright spots
starting the podcast.
But, um, it was a hard year forso many people and it's really
exciting to see listenershipincreasing and we're getting
people from all over the world.
I mean India and UK and Franceand Germany and in Japan.
(02:11):
And that really is exciting.
And then we, you know, have aregular listeners too.
I'm well, a lot of these peopleare regular listeners, but it's
exciting too, to see peoplelocally like in Virginia and
Maryland, that area WestVirginia.
Yes.
Uh, West Virginia, Tennessee getexcited about Tennessee and
France.
It's very exciting.
(02:33):
I think it's East of France, butin Clichy or something, I don't
know.
Yoda false is near Paris.
I believe that's super exciting.
We need some listeners inIreland so that we have people
we can visit when we go there inthe next couple of years.
Hopefully you need to tell yourpotato story from France.
Okay.
(02:53):
So you want to hear my potatostory?
Do you?
Well, I think the Lucerne Francewould, would like to hear the
potato story.
So
Speaker 2 (03:00):
For our listeners or listener and France, I spent a
semester in Paris studying, uh,the part of the Sorbonne that's
for foreign students.
So I was there and I was no pairfor a couple of really bratty
little boys.
They were horrible children.
I think they may be a big partof the reason that I don't have
children today.
(03:21):
They weren't terrible.
But the family, um, the feelingwas kind of, I don't know, they
were kind of strange.
Like they were very upper crusty, but anyway, they invited me to
go to Normandy.
They always went to Normandy forChristmas.
And so I didn't have any placeto go or any money.
So I figured sure.
I'll go to Normandy.
Maybe I'm going to be like, I'mgoing to be their guests.
I'm going to be part of thefamily.
Well, let me just say, when Igot to Normandy, I was like, I
(03:43):
was like Cinderella.
I was not part of the family.
So the first night we get there,they're like first they asked me
to go out and start a fire toburn some trash.
And I was like, do what?
I didn't know how to start afire, Jen.
I didn't know how to burn trash.
It would have been horrible.
So I was like, you know,[inaudible] found food.
(04:07):
It was terrible.
So then they're like, well, weneed you to go out and dig some
potatoes in the garden.
Now mind you it's like December23rd or 24th.
I don't think it was ChristmasEve, but it was like the 23rd.
I mean who's who goes out anddigs potatoes in the middle of
the winter.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Did they give you an implement?
You know, I don't remember animplement.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Maybe they expected me to dig with my bare hands.
I don't know.
But I, I kind of just said, Idon't know how to dig potatoes.
They probably thought stupidAmerican like, look, dig the
potatoes.
Or you will not have anythingfor dinner.
It was horrible.
And like the boys stole my braout of my room and they, they
(04:50):
ran it downstairs and likewhipped it in front of their
father's face.
It was so horrifying.
Like the entire, I was so happyto get back to my little hovel,
Speaker 1 (04:57):
A room in Paris.
I don't even think I would havebeen embarrassed by that.
Really.
I was like, it was soembarrassing.
I'm sure I probably should havebeen embarrassed, but I don't
know if it would embarrass me.
I love that
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Your dad.
So my bra is, it was a horrible,horrible thing.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
[inaudible] Fran story.
So that's my, yeah.
One of my many French stories.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So we should talk about what we're drinking this
evening.
Cause I'm pretty excited aboutwhat I'm
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I'm drinking.
What are you having tonight, Jen?
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, I must say it is thanks to you because part of
it is a Christmas gift that yougave me and I have learned how
to pronounce it.
It is[inaudible], which is aJapanese plum wine.
And so I have made an
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Issue.
Um, what am I calling
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It in a may shoe orange fizz?
Because I, I combined that Iread that you could combine it
with like a lemon soda.
I didn't have any lemon soda,but I had a blood orange like
carbonated soda thingy.
I forget what the brand is.
So it's like a blood orange whomay shoe fits.
It's really, really nice.
Is it a liqour
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Or is it a wine or a I've
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Seen it called both things.
Um, at first gen I have to say Igot really excited because I saw
a hundred on the bottle and Ithought that meant a hundred
proof, but I don't know, it waslike a hundred percent, but it
was like a hundred.
I don't know.
It must've meant like a hundredpercent plum wine or something.
Cause then later I finally foundthe 14.4% alcohol content on the
(06:28):
bottle, but I was like, whew,I'm going to be feeling it
tonight, but it's delicious.
It's really sweet and fruity.
It's really nice.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I've seen it online and I thought I'm going to try
to get, get that for Jen.
And I was finally able to trackit down.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Really appreciate it.
And it has the plums in thebottle.
Um, and I read somewhere thatyou should fish them out.
Like you should eat them becausethey're really good.
So like you can use them togarnish your drink.
So I'll probably do that when Ihave Howard again, what are you
having?
My friend, it's funny that you,
Speaker 1 (07:01):
You are drinking the hooch that I got you because I
am actually, I got a sugar cubeand I use my tongs that you got
me for Christmas.
And then I saturated the, um, Isaturated the sugar cube with a
few drops of lavender bitters.
Oh, that sounds so nice.
(07:22):
I put in some lemon cello andadded Champaign to cheers my
friend ringing in the new year.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yes.
Cheers.
That sounds so elegant.
20,
Speaker 1 (07:33):
21 is going to be everybody's year.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It is here's to 2021 and we are going to have so many
adventures.
Like I'm so excited to goplaces.
And you know, when we finallyare able, we are just gonna, I
just miss, like, even though wedo the podcast, I miss hanging
out with you so much.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Me too.
Oh.
And one more plug and I justwant to give another plug and I
know that we did this severalepisodes ago, but we're going to
be able to, hopefully the nextcouple of weeks we'll have that
interview with, um, thecorrectional officer that worked
with Hadden Clark, the serialkiller.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yes I am.
So looking forward to that,that's going to be really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah.
I'm looking forward to it aswell.
I think it should be reallyinteresting episode.
So yeah, here's to Matt.
I don't know if we should drinkthe Hadden Clark, but so tonight
I'm going to cover theRendlesham Boris UFO incident.
And I think a lot of peoplehaven't heard of this one, cause
you're so used to hearing aboutRoswell Roswell Roswell, and
this one, believe it or not isprobably the best documented UFO
(08:35):
case in the world.
It wasn't anything recenteither.
This happened in 1980, some ofthe sources for what I'm about
to discuss the book encounter inRendlesham forest, the inside
story of the world's bestdocumented UFO incident.
And it's by Nick Pope and Johnburrows and gem Peniston.
And also I listened to onYouTube again, I listened to
(08:58):
Jimmy church's fade to blackshow and I listened to episodes
five 76 and nine 82 where heactually interviews John burrows
.
I think most people have heardof John burrows in relation to
this incident, if we're familiarwith Rendlesham than you're
familiar with John burrows.
Okay?
So this is a bit of a story andit involves a lot of different
characters and the timeline ofevents can get kind of
(09:22):
confusing.
So I'm just going to start offwith like the most significant
people in the case.
One is Sergeant bud Stephens.
The other is airman John burrows.
And it was just talking aboutSergeant Jim Peniston, airman ed
cabins sag, and I've heard itpronounced cabin sag and cabin
sack.
So if I use it interchangeably,that is why.
(09:42):
And then there is deputycommander, Lieutenant Colonel,
Charles halt.
And there is Sergeant Adrian,but stanza and Nick Pope keep
him in the back of your mind too.
And again, he's a author of thebook I was just talking about
and he was an employee at theBritish government's ministry of
defense, which is equivalent toour DOD.
(10:03):
So the night of the firstincident, it's not really the
night it's actually in themorning.
It occurs on December 26 ataround two 30, three 30 in the
morning of the 26th.
But a lot of people say ithappened Christmas night, but it
was really the early morninghours of it would be boxing day,
I guess then.
And the location was the Royalair force bases, Woodbridge and
(10:26):
bent water.
And they're owned by theBritish.
But at that time they wereoperated by the U S and the
Rendlesham forest is betweenthem.
So between the two bases,there's about two to 300 yards
between them.
And it's located close to theNorth sea.
So on the early morning ofDecember 26, as I was saying
around two 30, three 30 Johnburrows, he was doing standard
(10:48):
patrol.
And he met up with hiscommander, his new commander at
the time.
And his name was staff Sergeant,bud Stephens.
And they were just hooking upto, I guess, get to know each
other a little bit better and totalk and that sort of thing.
So as they're on patrol,according to burrows, Sergeant
Steffens saw something to sendit to the forest.
He said to John, he said, didyou see that?
(11:10):
And John is like, you know, hedidn't see anything come down,
but he could see something inthe forest that had flashing
lights, different color lights.
So technically Stephens is thefirst person who ever laid eyes
on this.
It wasn't burrows, it would beStephen.
So this is by Burroughs accountbecause Stephen's, I don't think
he's been interviewed sincethis, since this incident
(11:32):
occurred or at least, you know,publicly, of course.
So they're trying to decide whatto do.
They go down to the end wherethe East gate is, and they're
trying to figure out what, youknow, what do we do?
You know, do we call it in?
So they decide that they'regoing to leave base, which is a
big no-no.
And so they leave base, they godown like this logging road, not
real far at all, and they turnit around.
(11:52):
And I think Bruce got out of theJeep and he said, he could just
feel like static electricity.
Yeah.
He said, you could just feellike something was in the air,
like something was wrong.
And they were watching theselights.
And the, he said at one point itlooked like it was moving
towards them a bit.
So he got back in the Jeep andthey went back inside the base
and right there, like a, a radioshack or something, they can
(12:15):
just call it in.
So they call in that they, youknow, see something, they had
seen something really new,something that they just could
not identify it and know what itwas.
And so when they called it in,uh, Sergeant Peniston, who was
actually like a specialist orhad a lot of expertise in crafts
, um, so he should know whathe's talking about.
So he, you know, arrives at theguard shack with, or the radio
(12:35):
shack with airman ed cabin, sack, and Peniston.
He wanted to investigate thelights further, but, and they
also asked, I guess they alsoasked like their desk, I forgot
what they call it.
They have all these differentacronyms, but when they called
into the desk, if they had seenanything, they also put in a
call to Heathrow airport and hethrow had detected something.
(12:56):
But I guess they didn't reallyknow what it was.
So he throw had picked up onsomething as well.
Interesting.
So back to penicillin andBurroughs, and also with a cabin
sag and Stephens, Stephens didnot want to go.
He's like, Nope, I'm good.
I'm going to stay here.
You guys can go.
And he was really rattled by it,but who wouldn't be?
So they go further out and theyget out of their Jeeps.
(13:18):
And again, people said that, youknow, they could least John was
saying, and I heard this anotherreport too, like Peniston that
it just felt like electricitywas in the air.
And the three of them went likein a staggered formation and
cabin sack.
He was first.
I'm not exactly sure where Johnwas at, where he was positioned
if like he was in the middle orbehind, but Kevin sack, he was
first and there's a lot ofdifferent, um, a lot of
(13:41):
different narratives as far aswhether or not they took their
weapons or not.
John says at one time that hedidn't think that he brought his
weapon, but pentostatin andcabin sacks said that he did.
So they go up this Hill, hecalled it a burb.
I've never heard of that before.
Have you, what was it called?
A berm I've heard of that like,like on the berm of the road or
something like that.
Yeah.
So he said there was a berm,like a small Hill and they went
(14:03):
up it and I guess just as theycrusted it, that they could see
like this bright light andaccording to him and gave a
pulse and they hit the groundand then it shot straight up.
So that's boroughs.
That's what he said.
Wow happen.
Um, so for at least part of it,that's, John's account of what
happened, Sergeant Peniston.
And it seems like there's some,perhaps maybe some tension
(14:24):
between the two of them and I'mnot sure penicillin's retelling
of the event has morphed orchanged throughout the years.
Um, it's evolved throughout theyears.
And based on his account, he hassaid, now that he was able to
touch it was a craft.
It wasn't just a light or itwasn't just like a big ball of
lights or he was able toapproach the craft and touch it.
(14:46):
And it was triangular.
And that when he did this, hegot this binary download and
there were, there were likeglyphs, like hieroglyphics on
it, like he had never seenbefore.
So his stories of all differenttime, for whatever reason who
knows.
Um, but John, I mean, he I've,like I said, I've listened to
hours and hours of him beinginterviewed.
And he seems like he's pretty,you know, upfront about things.
(15:06):
Like, I don't know.
He's willing to say, I, I don'tknow.
Versus I think sometimes alwaysregard people, the suspicion
that seemed like they know allthe answers or, yeah.
He doesn't seem as if he'sreluctant to say he doesn't
know, which I think is a goodquality.
I just wanted to ask you reallyquickly on Peniston.
You said the binary download.
So he was he saying that when hetouched it, that something
downloaded into his brain.
(15:28):
Yep.
That's exactly what he said.
He also said that he had anotebook with him.
So it went from them, I think,always in a reporting, the same
thing.
And then it evolved to Penistonsaying that he approached it.
It was triangular.
He saw glyphs, he laid his handson it and he got this binary
download.
So like zeros and ones like thatwould be used for computer,
computer programming.
(15:49):
Did he say he did anything withthat?
He produced the key, produce alittle notebook that he had that
he wrote in years later.
So then there's that.
So, so John goes home and heonly sleeps for a bit and he
wakes back up and he's thinking,you know, something's not right.
I just feel like I have to gothere again.
(16:09):
And he goes to base cause he wasliving downtown.
He wasn't living on base at thattime.
And he gets there and he wasfriends with the person who ran
the desk.
I don't know if it's a deskSergeant or what you would call
them, but they're like, youwon't believe it's something
else happened.
Something else went down.
So on the night of the 26, therewas another officer that they
saw some funny things out theretoo.
(16:29):
She went out there and her Jeepand I think she had someone who
was accompanying her, but theydidn't say who it was already.
I didn't find out who that was.
So her last name was Tamblyn.
So evidently she goes down thereand there's this blue ball of
light shoots to her windowthrough her car and it cut out
the car, cut out.
Supposedly she was like reallyupset and distraught about what
(16:50):
happened.
And she was relieved of herduties for that night.
And that's per Burroughs who gotthis from someone else.
And I think she's actually maybethe most interesting figure in
this whole entire case.
Like what, why do you, whatmakes you say that?
I say that because she's nevercome out on the record and John
on the Jimmy church show, Jimmyhad asked him, okay, has anyone
(17:12):
tried to get in touch with her?
And he's like, he's actually, Ihad someone try to find her in
2010, you said 10.
So I'm assuming he met 2010.
And he said, the closest wecould get was that being told
that she was living off the gridin Italy and she did not wish to
be contacted.
Really.
Yeah.
So I just find if all the Pthere were a lot of, well, there
(17:33):
was several people throughoutthis who didn't want to be seen,
like interviewed like Stephensis one of them in England.
And I'm going to talk aboutlater, he's another, but she
just seems like she's a totalghost.
Yeah.
And it sounds like, you know,this encounter really made a
huge impression on her.
Yes.
As it would, yes.
With anyone.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, I would be a screaming mess.
I think
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Go would be, if I was alone, I would be, if I was with
somebody else too, though, I'dbe very interested in trying to
figure out what it was.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
What do you think we do if we were together, do you
think, would we be fearlessIntrepid investigator?
Would we, would we run the otherway?
I think we'd be screaming.
It kind of thing.
So too, but I kind of hope thatwe would approach it.
I want my binary down.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You don't see that happening.
That's approaching it.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
No, I think it depends on what kind of frame of
mind we're in for drunk.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah.
So that's what he heard.
That's what John Burroughs was,what was reported to him?
Whether or not that's true.
I don't know, but I don't seewhy he would, you know, I don't
know why he would fabricate thator not, but I would love to see
if someone could, could somehowget her to agree to be
interviewed.
But if it's been all this time,I do not see that happening.
(18:48):
And what does it mean to be offthe grid?
Does that mean to be like youhave no, like you don't have a
cell phone
Speaker 2 (18:54):
During that.
Yeah.
Does that mean when I hear offthe grid?
I think like you're not usingany power, you know, at least
from like the power line systemthat you're completely
self-sufficient that you're kindof not in touch with the rest of
the world.
That's what I think it means,but who knows?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah.
I kind of think of like it LindaHamilton from the Terminator
running around with a shotgunand hiding her cell phone.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I kind of take a preppers and things like that.
Like the New Mexico desert orsomething.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So apparently at that time she was off the grid,
Speaker 2 (19:23):
But to be off the grid in Italy is pretty nice.
I was thinking that too.
I'm thinking that
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Bad.
All that bad.
Yeah.
So anyway, we digress.
There's just a lot of, a lot oftwists and turns with this.
Okay.
So fast forward two nightslater, and this is per the book
written by Nick Pope and thenalso also burrows and Peniston
in the book.
It says that there's this andalso, Oh, okay.
Also if there's a unsolvedmysteries episode on this from
(19:51):
ages ago and they actuallyinterview some of the people
that were involved.
So per uh, Pope's book, I'm justgoing to call it Pope's book.
There was Lieutenant BruceEngland and there was actually
an awards or Christmas party.
And I know it's like a few daysafter Christmas, but they
couldn't book the hall orwhatever it was they needed.
So I had to be held a few dayslater, Bruce England, he went to
(20:12):
this awards, dinner kind ofburst in.
And at that time, the Lieutenantcommander was Lieutenant Colonel
Charles halt, and he's going toplay a significant part in this.
So he burst in and he says, it'sback.
And, and he's like, what?
You know, Holtz superior wasthere too.
And so whole basically, youknow, they said, you know, what,
(20:33):
what are you talking about?
What's back.
And they're like, he's like theUFO is back, haul, draws the S
the, um, short straw.
And he has to go check it out.
And he was just going to go, godown there and quickly debunk
it.
He brings along a guy whoactually has like a Geiger
counter.
And he also orders that thesethings that they called Lidells,
(20:53):
and they're basically like theseenormous lights that they use
when they're repairing aircraftin the dark.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Oh, okay.
I think I've seen something likethat.
Like on the highway, whenthey're doing road work at night
or something,
Speaker 1 (21:04):
It would be like comparable to kind of that, but
maybe a little bit taller.
I don't know.
So he orders those to be broughtout to, and they're run by gas,
but they kept malfunctioning.
I mean, they only worked like, Ithink a few times during the
course of that night.
So the team that Holtz assembledto dispel what was going on, um,
one of them was Sergeant MonroeNevilles, and he had a
(21:25):
background in disasterpreparedness, and there was also
a master Sergeant Bobby Ball.
And he was actually, um,interviewed for unsolved
mysteries too.
So if you were to look at thatand in a wholesale, original
account, and this is the otherto me, the other mystery, and
Holt's original account of whathappened that night, he did not
acknowledge that Burroughs wasthere really that's weird, at
least publicly, he did not.
(21:46):
And burrows, he actually arrivedto the scene where, you know,
halt them or checking thingsout.
And he eventually got back there.
Halt tried to deny for many,many years that Burroughs was
back helping them search.
It was Burroughs.
And there was this other guy,his name is Adrian.
[inaudible].
So Burroughs and Vicenza they'repaired together.
And halts, according toBurroughs, tells him to go out
(22:08):
and investigate these lightsbecause by the time halt got
there, he could see the lightsof the sky.
And at one point in time, it wassending down these beams, Oh my
Lord.
He saw these beams of light.
And at one point it shown a beamdown like right in front of him
and his men.
And at another time it wasbeaming down on like this
storage area, like this weapons,storage area that they have.
(22:32):
So burrows and Justine's, orthey go out to investigate
further.
And as they got close, he saidthat the light came towards them
and that they both went down tothe ground.
But the Steans reported that heactually saw John being hit with
like a beam of light and the waythat he described it as like
John disappeared for a bit, likeyou would see, like there's a
(22:52):
really old star track chose andstuff.
How do we, you know, beamsomebody up, beam me up, Scotty,
do you think he was being dumb?
I kind of wonder because a lotof people Peniston also said at
one time that the same thingthat he witnessed the same thing
happened to John when they firstapproached it the very first
night that it happened earlymorning that it happened.
But again, you know, Penistonstory has evolved over time.
(23:14):
Yeah.
And Burroughs is not discountingthat that's a possibility.
Did he
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Lose memory or lose time or anything that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I'm glad that you brought that up.
When they, the three of themwent out when it was Peniston
burrows and then cabin sack,evidently the base lost all
communications with them for 45minutes.
So when they got back, they hadlost 45 minutes of time.
Cause they asked what time itwas.
That's weird.
Isn't it?
It is weird.
It's very weird.
What I didn't mention too, wasthat halt, when he took his crew
(23:44):
out there, they find depressionsin the ground that looked like
it had been left perhaps by acraft of some kind.
And they also detected radiationin that area.
And then also they detectedradiation on some of the trees
because they were like branchesand stuff broken off of the
trees because when the crafttook off the first time, it
decided it just shot straightup.
You know, it just shot straightup in the sky.
(24:06):
So I probably knocked branchesand stuff like that down as it
was going along.
And the other interesting thingabout halt is that he was
someone who always carriedaround like a voice recorder
with him at the time.
And you have to figure that's 40years ago.
I think for that time, you know,it was a bit unusual.
So he'd always carried somethinglike that around with him.
And just, I think a few yearsago they released that tape or
(24:29):
parts of that tape is only about18 minutes long, but it was, it
should have been a much longer,there was like starts and stops
and things like that, which youdo with a recorder when you're
recording yourself.
So I don't necessarily find thatas being suspicious.
Was there a lot of profanity?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
No, really.
I would
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Have been like what that is.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah.
I totally would have been likethat.
So you can hear this going on inreal time, but you had this, you
know, verbal account of what'sgoing on.
And if you remember, I told youburrows, there seems to be like
some type of tension or maybesome bad blood between them.
I don't know why, but Bruce hadsaid that he had denied that
(25:07):
Burroughs was even there thatnight when, you know, he was out
there himself, he actually hadto reverse course and, and
acknowledge that Burroughs wasthere because his name was
mentioned on the tape when he'ddeny, he, he seems like a jerk
to me.
Like, why would you denysomething like a basic fact like
that?
I don't know.
I don't know either.
I think about that too.
And that's, to me, like otherthan this Tamblyn that's off the
(25:31):
grid, why would, why would haltlie about something like that?
It's really odd, but was it haltor was it Peniston who lied
about that?
It was hall.
It was hall because halt is theLieutenant Colonel.
And he was the one that, youknow, was at the awards IC.
He was at the awards banquet.
And he's like, I'm just going togo down there and put this to
rest.
(25:52):
So I think, yeah, you askingthat that's one of the, to me,
one of the mysteries too, is thefact that we'll why, why lie
about something like that?
If you indeed, you know?
Yeah.
I don't, I don't get themotivation at all.
You know, why would you notmention him?
So I don't know what themotivation would be either.
And I don't understand whyburrows two, wouldn't say, well,
you know, he left me out of hisaccount and this is why I think
(26:15):
he did it.
But for whatever reason, burrowsdoes not seem happy with halt at
all.
He didn't say anything.
Well, he did say that, I don'tknow if he used the word lie,
but that he provided differentaccounts and that he was forced
to acknowledge that, that Johnwas there that night halt and
his men, they saw this light,they saw that it, you know, made
(26:37):
this new, when it took off inthe sky, it was beaming down and
Robert and ball CUSA guy.
One of the guys that, you know,here had mentioned very often,
but he was the person that wasone of the people that was
interviewed and unsolvedmysteries.
And he said that he felt forcertain, that this thing was
doing like a grid search, like agrid search, like looking for
(26:58):
something, which I thought wasreally interesting.
It is interesting, especiallybecause it's over a military
base or whatever in thatmilitary base at that time had
like this huge, huge arsenal ofnuclear weapons.
Haultain other people said thatit was under intelligent control
(27:18):
and there, and they believed,and at one point it bursts and
it goes like into five differentlike balls of light really.
Yeah.
Later they see like three more,like, I guess are more
elliptical looking shapeseventually, you know, eventually
those disappear too.
So halt hold had written a memo.
I think it was a couple of weeksafter the incident and it got
(27:40):
the date wrong with the incidentthat he was involved with, that
he wrote that was supposed to goto, you know, the British air
force.
Okay.
And it was something like, itwas entitled.
This is an understatement of thecentury, um, unusual lights.
And so someone finally obtainedthat through the freedom of
(28:00):
information act and got that.
So his memo came to light tosupport, you know, what was
cited.
And in 2015 there was aninterview conducted by the BBC
with halt.
And again, he said, you know,whatever was there was, was
obviously under intelligentcontrol.
My personal feeling is thatthere was some type of
(28:21):
mothership or bigger entity orsomething that was controlling
what was on the ground orperhaps some form of what we,
what we saw in the sky.
Wow.
And he also said during thatinterview that there were some
air traffic controllers thatlater on spoke to him about
their accounts, about whathappened.
And they said that they didn'tcome forward earlier because you
(28:42):
know, people would think thatyou were a nut and that would be
the end of your career, but theydid come forward.
And did they, they say somethingsimilar to what he had seen.
This is based on what halt saidto BBC.
Okay.
Whether or not these peopleactually came forward.
I didn't see anything to thateffect, but he's saying that he
had contact with them and thatthey had told him, yeah.
(29:05):
You know, we, we really did.
We saw it too, but we didn'twant to say anything because
this would, you know, and ourentire career in the air force.
So I had mentioned one of theco-authors Nick Pope and that he
was the employee of the ministryof defense Britain's ministry of
defense.
So while he was employed there,he had like this wide range of
duties and what they do thereevidently is that they try to
(29:29):
move you around the kind ofshift you around every few
years, I guess, to give youexperience.
But they shift employees aroundquite a bit there.
Okay.
So he ends up getting this gigto investigate UFO phenomena
really, and to determine whetheror not any defense significance.
So I'm sure, I'm sure he'spretty high up in the, in the
ministry of defense, but anyway,he landed all this.
(29:51):
So what a, what a great thing Iwould love.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
To have that job now, which,which kind of guy was this, this
was Nick Pope and he's aco-author of a book.
Wow.
It'd be fascinating to know allthe stuff that he knows about
that, that he can't talk about.
Exactly.
He had access to all the abodifiles from Rendlesham.
(30:15):
And when he sold that file, ithadn't been released to the
public.
So he went back and he did areview of the, of the case.
And I think of everything thathe's reviewed, that that's been
the most credible incident tohim and which, you know, cause
you had, I think the highestranking military official at the
time, that's on record sayingthat they had seen this and then
(30:35):
you have so many people there atthe same time.
Yeah.
And then you also have the, youknow, halt with his recorder.
Right.
Speaking about what washappening.
Yeah.
Very well-documented, you know,just so many witnesses and know
it's extremely well documented.
Do you think it's the bestdocumentary of any?
Yeah, I do.
I mean, I think, um, as I said,everybody makes such hay about
(31:00):
Roswell, but this to me farsurpasses all as well.
Another thing that's interestingis that burrows, he had a number
and even Peniston, he had anumber of health conditions as
you know, time went by, youknow, he, shortly after the
incident, bros got sick withsymptoms like with nausea,
things that resembling radiationexposure in 2011, boroughs
(31:21):
doctors discovered that he hadlike a mitral valve failure,
which is something at his age atthat time was considered, I
guess, unusual or usually happenin men, much older than him.
But you know, people have heartproblems, you know, everybody's
different.
But boroughs, what wasinteresting is that bruise
doctor could not get a hold ofhis, if his health records
really from, from the airports,I'm not sure if he was still in
(31:44):
the air force or not at thatpoint, but so his doctor could
not get ahold of his medicalrecords and they were deemed
classified by the VA and the VAevidently can classify your
medical records if you'reworking on something that's
classified, but what he wasworking on or just doing his
regular patrol and went out intothe forest that wasn't deemed,
you know, what he was doing atthe time wasn't classified.
(32:05):
Does that make sense?
What I'm trying to say, like,even though he ran into this
really unusual situation, Imean, my only thought is maybe
it becomes classified after thatpoint, because then it involves,
you know, this extra terrestrialstuff that they want to tamp
down.
But yeah, like he was just doinghis normal duties and he even
got Senator McCain's officeinvolved to try to get ahold of
(32:26):
those records in Burrow's lawyerand his legal team.
They were actually able toobtain a records through the
Britain's ministry of defense.
Oh.
So he did get them well, he wasable to, this is how he got
them.
They were able to findsomething, some documents who,
the British ministry of defense,which, and this is a quote, high
levels of radiation were in factpresent when burrows and the
(32:49):
UFO's met.
Wow.
So based on that, they were ableto get ahold of his, I guess, of
his medical records, his fullmedical records, because they
were able to obtain this otherdocument.
Okay.
Through the British governmentsaying that he was, um, exposed
to high levels of radiation.
I'm surprised you can come downwith cancer or some sort of like
(33:10):
that.
Then he had problems too.
But from what I've seen in, ofcourse I, this could go on for a
decade trying to research thisor a lifetime.
I didn't see him go intoPennEast and go into what
specifically what his, what hismedical problems were and Pope.
He also, I think he's the onewho alerted boroughs to this, or
(33:30):
he's the one who got thedocuments, but Pope went on and
he alerted some other witnessesthat believe that they suffered
some health problems, do theexposure, the object.
And he found a, a document, adeclassified document.
And it was called on identifyphenomenon and in the UK air
defense region volume two.
(33:50):
And this is a quote from thatdocument.
The well reported Rendleshamforest slash bent water event is
an example of where it ispostulated that several
observers were probably exposedto a UAP radiation for longer
than normal UAP signing periods.
And UAP is actually a term thatPope came up with because when
he was trying to go back andinterview people, when he's
(34:11):
doing an investigation of these,of these UFO cold cases, the
minute you say UFO people shutdown.
So he gave it this termunidentified aerial phenomenon.
When he used UAP, when he wasinterviewing people, they were
much more willing to open up.
Is that still being used today?
Is that kind of replaced UFO?
Yeah.
It has big time.
(34:31):
So unidentified aerialphenomenon.
Interesting.
Yeah.
UAP.
So again, it was a line, it wasa line from a declassified
British intelligence memo calledunidentified phenomenon in UK
air defense region volume two.
And it said the well reportedRendlesham forest slash bent
water event is an example ofwhere it is postulated that
several observers were probablyexposed to UAP radiation for
(34:54):
longer than normal UAP sightingperiods.
But I don't know if it stuck outto you too.
It's like, obviously they haveother, you know what I'm saying?
And they're saying that there'sbeen more than one slide in
there acknowledging yeah.
That didn't, I didn't catch on,but you're absolutely right.
The most recent interview that Ilistened to with Burroughs that
was on the Jimmy church, um,show I think was from about a
(35:15):
year ago.
And he's also been through likesome hypnosis and he didn't
really go into like what wasretrieved during those sessions,
but he's gone through that.
And he seemed to think that Iguess, whatever it was, that
there was credibility to it.
And he thinks that when he wasasked by Jimmy church, well,
what do you think this is?
(35:35):
And, or was, and seems to thinkthat there's some type of
unusual phenomenon that's justoccurring in that specific
region really area.
And that he also thinks thatbased on his discussions, I
guess, with some other peoplethat perhaps it could have been
some weapon Dory or some, youknow, some type of technology
that our government had at thattime.
(35:57):
You mean what they, what theysaw or what the UAP would have
been interested in, what theysaw, I guess, I think what they
saw, but he seems to think like,it's either one or the other or
both.
It seems like he might be likethinking that or his, his
thinking, I don't want to speakfor him, but I think his belief
is that it could be a little bitof both.
Like there's some really wildphenomenon that's happening in
(36:21):
that region.
They don't know why.
And that also it could have beenweaponry or technology that that
was really, really top secret,which, you know, with that, if I
buy that with a weaponry, Imean, I can totally see it.
And other reports thathappening, it could just be
something that we're testing andnot let anybody know.
But why would you do it betweenthose two air force spaces?
(36:41):
Yeah.
That's like an odd place to doit.
I think that's really odd too.
I was, I think I was telling youthis earlier, but I watched this
interesting documentary it'sfrom 2020 called phenomenon
about UFO's UAPs.
And when you talked about in thestory, the part about, you know,
how there were a lot of nuclearweapons housed on this base,
maybe think of there's a part ofthe documentary and I, they go
over so much in the documentary.
(37:02):
I can't remember exactly wherethis is, but they, there are
some stories and it wasn'tRendlesham, but where they
thought whatever the object wasseemed interested in was kind of
doing a search of where weaponswere stored.
And, and that seems to be atheme with UAPs.
Um, almost like they, I don'tknow if they, if they want to
know what we have or if theysomehow want to destroy what we
(37:23):
have, which would probably be agood idea if they destroyed all
the nuclear weapons, it justmakes you wonder.
I don't know.
I mean, it makes sense thatthat, you know, they would be
interested in our militarybases, but I don't know if I buy
yeah.
I'm with you.
I don't know if I buy that.
We have something that's thatadvanced and top secret, you
know, I've heard, I've heardpeople talk about that actually
in this documentary, they talkabout that.
(37:44):
Um, some people who are high upand they say, you know, as far
as I know, we had nothing thatwould resemble, you know, any of
these things that people haveseen other places.
So, I mean, this scene justseems so off the charts that, I
mean, does I just don't, I mean,I could see as we just, as we
were talking about earlier, Ican see where with other
sightings, that might be thecase that we have something
that's some huge craft that'sflying overhead and people
(38:07):
spotted or something orsomething unusual.
But yeah, it seems like thatthis technology is just so
beyond anything that we couldhave had then, or even now.
Exactly.
I think I used to be moreskeptical.
I've always been kind of afraidof UFO's just really Luke.
Ooh, I don't want to seesomething like that, but it
would be very curious to see it,but I really do believe that
(38:29):
they exist.
I mean, there's just, the more Ihear from people who've
witnessed it, you know, on someof these shows, which seem very
credible.
Like this documentary seemedextremely credible.
There's too many, too manyinstances.
I know it was like counted Brianthings on a complete nut.
He doesn't believe in any ofthis stuff.
Brian is my husband in case somepeople don't know who that is.
(38:50):
Um, well he bright is theworld's biggest skeptic.
I mean, I have never met abigger skeptic than this boy.
He's, he's always shooting andhe's just extremely rational,
but I don't think this stuff isirrational.
We'll see.
I don't either.
I just try to think of it.
Like what is the most likely,and to me the most likely
(39:11):
scenario is that, but it wasYeti, Yeti, I'm sorry.
You were going to say secondaryto, to Yeti.
Um, no, I just think like the, Ithink about, and I feel like I'm
rational for the most part.
I try to think, well, what isthe most likely scenario?
And what I think is the mostlikely is that it is something
(39:34):
that we just don't know what itis.
And I think when people think ofUFO now known as UAP, they think
of, you know, space beings in a,in a craft and it doesn't
necessarily have to be that whoknows what it is.
So what do you think of the, uh,Rendlesham incident?
So that was such an interestingstory.
(39:55):
Wow.
Um, and I actually hadn't heardabout that.
So I'm really interested.
Um, 1980 was a long time ago,but you're right.
It, it really does seem like itwas very well-documented there
were so many players involved init.
Um, so yeah, that's a bit of astory thing.
Yeah.
Hard to keep all of those peoplestraight, but I think, think you
(40:15):
manage to, to tell it in a waythat, that we could, so that was
awesome.
Well, you know, like every storycalls for a toast at the end.
So what do you think, what doyou think we should toast to
tonight?
Jen?
Well, let's, um, let's toast tonot being abducted by aliens and
having, and having our eggs,harvested what you want to toast
(40:37):
to having our eggs harvested andnot having our let's toast to
not having it,
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Your eggs harvested.
Okay.
Because I'm like, that soundslike those sound like two very
good things.
Not being abducted and nothaving our eggs harvested by
aliens.
I'm I'll drink to that.
If they hear, if they harvestedour eggs, they would be like,
we've been ripped off.
We got to go back and get somedecent eggs.
(41:02):
This is ridiculous.
Exactly.
They'd say in your words, Jen,they'd be like, these eggs are
busted.
You're here.
My friends, my friends you'rehere.
Thank you to everyone wholistens.
The best thing you can do tohelp us grow is to like review
on subscribe on iTunes and evenbetter yet tweet about us or
post about us on Facebook.
Tell your friends if you thinkthey would like us and have a
(41:24):
good night.
(42:22):
[inaudible].
While on patrol airman, John Burroughs went to
meet up with his Sergeant.
It was an opportunity to get toknow his superior riding around
the perimeter of the Woodbridge,rural air force base.
He saw something in settlingthat would change his life
forever to kill your light shonein the dark of night in
Rendlesham forest at warrantedinvestigation, what he and his
fellow servicemen saw wouldbecome one of the most
(00:21):
well-documented UFO sightings,high ranking officials in the
world.
Jen, how are you?
My friend?
Hey, I'm doing great.
How are you?
I'm doing great.
I'm excited about tonight'sstory.
So am I I'm excited because ithas an extra terrestrial flare
(00:43):
and I don't think we've actuallywe did.
We just did.
Um, we did.
USO's the swimmers of Lake bycall.
Yeah.
We just did the, the swimmers ofLake by call and USO's, but
there's just so much to cover onUAPs and UFO's or whatever you
want to call them.
And, um, USO's yeah, no, I'mexcited for tonight.
And this is for the second time,you're the person doing the one
(01:05):
on the UAPs or UFO's again,whatever, whatever your
nomenclature of choices, but Ireally want to do a story on
them at some point soon.
So, cause I'm, I'm fascinated metoo.
And I think we're being preparedfor, for the big one.
I think something big is goingto happen.
You do you think be in 2020,maybe in 2021 that we're going
(01:27):
to be visited, they might giveus a year.
I mean, Jesus 2020 was just,that's just too much.
Yeah, that's true.
By the way, this is, this isthis, our first episode of the
new year.
It is so happy new year to allour listeners.
Absolutely.
We hope that it is a better newyear than the one we've just
(01:47):
come out of.
I mean, it was a challengingyear.
I still feel like, you know,there were a few bright spots
actually for me, the podcast wasone of the biggest bright spots
starting the podcast.
But, um, it was a hard year forso many people and it's really
exciting to see listenershipincreasing and we're getting
people from all over the world.
I mean India and UK and Franceand Germany and in Japan.
(02:11):
And that really is exciting.
And then we, you know, have aregular listeners too.
I'm well, a lot of these peopleare regular listeners, but it's
exciting too, to see peoplelocally like in Virginia and
Maryland, that area WestVirginia.
Yes.
Uh, West Virginia, Tennessee getexcited about Tennessee and
France.
It's very exciting.
(02:33):
I think it's East of France, butin Clichy or something, I don't
know.
Yoda false is near Paris.
I believe that's super exciting.
We need some listeners inIreland so that we have people
we can visit when we go there inthe next couple of years.
Hopefully you need to tell yourpotato story from France.
Okay.
(02:53):
So you want to hear my potatostory?
Do you?
Well, I think the Lucerne Francewould, would like to hear the
potato story.
So
Speaker 2 (03:00):
For our listeners or listener and France, I spent a
semester in Paris studying, uh,the part of the Sorbonne that's
for foreign students.
So I was there and I was no pairfor a couple of really bratty
little boys.
They were horrible children.
I think they may be a big partof the reason that I don't have
children today.
(03:21):
They weren't terrible.
But the family, um, the feelingwas kind of, I don't know, they
were kind of strange.
Like they were very upper crusty, but anyway, they invited me to
go to Normandy.
They always went to Normandy forChristmas.
And so I didn't have any placeto go or any money.
So I figured sure.
I'll go to Normandy.
Maybe I'm going to be like, I'mgoing to be their guests.
I'm going to be part of thefamily.
Well, let me just say, when Igot to Normandy, I was like, I
(03:43):
was like Cinderella.
I was not part of the family.
So the first night we get there,they're like first they asked me
to go out and start a fire toburn some trash.
And I was like, do what?
I didn't know how to start afire, Jen.
I didn't know how to burn trash.
It would have been horrible.
So I was like, you know,[inaudible] found food.
(04:07):
It was terrible.
So then they're like, well, weneed you to go out and dig some
potatoes in the garden.
Now mind you it's like December23rd or 24th.
I don't think it was ChristmasEve, but it was like the 23rd.
I mean who's who goes out anddigs potatoes in the middle of
the winter.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Did they give you an implement?
You know, I don't remember animplement.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Maybe they expected me to dig with my bare hands.
I don't know.
But I, I kind of just said, Idon't know how to dig potatoes.
They probably thought stupidAmerican like, look, dig the
potatoes.
Or you will not have anythingfor dinner.
It was horrible.
And like the boys stole my braout of my room and they, they
(04:50):
ran it downstairs and likewhipped it in front of their
father's face.
It was so horrifying.
Like the entire, I was so happyto get back to my little hovel,
Speaker 1 (04:57):
A room in Paris.
I don't even think I would havebeen embarrassed by that.
Really.
I was like, it was soembarrassing.
I'm sure I probably should havebeen embarrassed, but I don't
know if it would embarrass me.
I love that
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Your dad.
So my bra is, it was a horrible,horrible thing.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
[inaudible] Fran story.
So that's my, yeah.
One of my many French stories.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So we should talk about what we're drinking this
evening.
Cause I'm pretty excited aboutwhat I'm
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I'm drinking.
What are you having tonight, Jen?
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, I must say it is thanks to you because part of
it is a Christmas gift that yougave me and I have learned how
to pronounce it.
It is[inaudible], which is aJapanese plum wine.
And so I have made an
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Issue.
Um, what am I calling
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It in a may shoe orange fizz?
Because I, I combined that Iread that you could combine it
with like a lemon soda.
I didn't have any lemon soda,but I had a blood orange like
carbonated soda thingy.
I forget what the brand is.
So it's like a blood orange whomay shoe fits.
It's really, really nice.
Is it a liqour
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Or is it a wine or a I've
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Seen it called both things.
Um, at first gen I have to say Igot really excited because I saw
a hundred on the bottle and Ithought that meant a hundred
proof, but I don't know, it waslike a hundred percent, but it
was like a hundred.
I don't know.
It must've meant like a hundredpercent plum wine or something.
Cause then later I finally foundthe 14.4% alcohol content on the
(06:28):
bottle, but I was like, whew,I'm going to be feeling it
tonight, but it's delicious.
It's really sweet and fruity.
It's really nice.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I've seen it online and I thought I'm going to try
to get, get that for Jen.
And I was finally able to trackit down.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Really appreciate it.
And it has the plums in thebottle.
Um, and I read somewhere thatyou should fish them out.
Like you should eat them becausethey're really good.
So like you can use them togarnish your drink.
So I'll probably do that when Ihave Howard again, what are you
having?
My friend, it's funny that you,
Speaker 1 (07:01):
You are drinking the hooch that I got you because I
am actually, I got a sugar cubeand I use my tongs that you got
me for Christmas.
And then I saturated the, um, Isaturated the sugar cube with a
few drops of lavender bitters.
Oh, that sounds so nice.
(07:22):
I put in some lemon cello andadded Champaign to cheers my
friend ringing in the new year.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yes.
Cheers.
That sounds so elegant.
20,
Speaker 1 (07:33):
21 is going to be everybody's year.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It is here's to 2021 and we are going to have so many
adventures.
Like I'm so excited to goplaces.
And you know, when we finallyare able, we are just gonna, I
just miss, like, even though wedo the podcast, I miss hanging
out with you so much.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Me too.
Oh.
And one more plug and I justwant to give another plug and I
know that we did this severalepisodes ago, but we're going to
be able to, hopefully the nextcouple of weeks we'll have that
interview with, um, thecorrectional officer that worked
with Hadden Clark, the serialkiller.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yes I am.
So looking forward to that,that's going to be really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah.
I'm looking forward to it aswell.
I think it should be reallyinteresting episode.
So yeah, here's to Matt.
I don't know if we should drinkthe Hadden Clark, but so tonight
I'm going to cover theRendlesham Boris UFO incident.
And I think a lot of peoplehaven't heard of this one, cause
you're so used to hearing aboutRoswell Roswell Roswell, and
this one, believe it or not isprobably the best documented UFO
(08:35):
case in the world.
It wasn't anything recenteither.
This happened in 1980, some ofthe sources for what I'm about
to discuss the book encounter inRendlesham forest, the inside
story of the world's bestdocumented UFO incident.
And it's by Nick Pope and Johnburrows and gem Peniston.
And also I listened to onYouTube again, I listened to
(08:58):
Jimmy church's fade to blackshow and I listened to episodes
five 76 and nine 82 where heactually interviews John burrows
.
I think most people have heardof John burrows in relation to
this incident, if we're familiarwith Rendlesham than you're
familiar with John burrows.
Okay?
So this is a bit of a story andit involves a lot of different
characters and the timeline ofevents can get kind of
(09:22):
confusing.
So I'm just going to start offwith like the most significant
people in the case.
One is Sergeant bud Stephens.
The other is airman John burrows.
And it was just talking aboutSergeant Jim Peniston, airman ed
cabins sag, and I've heard itpronounced cabin sag and cabin
sack.
So if I use it interchangeably,that is why.
(09:42):
And then there is deputycommander, Lieutenant Colonel,
Charles halt.
And there is Sergeant Adrian,but stanza and Nick Pope keep
him in the back of your mind too.
And again, he's a author of thebook I was just talking about
and he was an employee at theBritish government's ministry of
defense, which is equivalent toour DOD.
(10:03):
So the night of the firstincident, it's not really the
night it's actually in themorning.
It occurs on December 26 ataround two 30, three 30 in the
morning of the 26th.
But a lot of people say ithappened Christmas night, but it
was really the early morninghours of it would be boxing day,
I guess then.
And the location was the Royalair force bases, Woodbridge and
(10:26):
bent water.
And they're owned by theBritish.
But at that time they wereoperated by the U S and the
Rendlesham forest is betweenthem.
So between the two bases,there's about two to 300 yards
between them.
And it's located close to theNorth sea.
So on the early morning ofDecember 26, as I was saying
around two 30, three 30 Johnburrows, he was doing standard
(10:48):
patrol.
And he met up with hiscommander, his new commander at
the time.
And his name was staff Sergeant,bud Stephens.
And they were just hooking upto, I guess, get to know each
other a little bit better and totalk and that sort of thing.
So as they're on patrol,according to burrows, Sergeant
Steffens saw something to sendit to the forest.
He said to John, he said, didyou see that?
(11:10):
And John is like, you know, hedidn't see anything come down,
but he could see something inthe forest that had flashing
lights, different color lights.
So technically Stephens is thefirst person who ever laid eyes
on this.
It wasn't burrows, it would beStephen.
So this is by Burroughs accountbecause Stephen's, I don't think
he's been interviewed sincethis, since this incident
(11:32):
occurred or at least, you know,publicly, of course.
So they're trying to decide whatto do.
They go down to the end wherethe East gate is, and they're
trying to figure out what, youknow, what do we do?
You know, do we call it in?
So they decide that they'regoing to leave base, which is a
big no-no.
And so they leave base, they godown like this logging road, not
real far at all, and they turnit around.
(11:52):
And I think Bruce got out of theJeep and he said, he could just
feel like static electricity.
Yeah.
He said, you could just feellike something was in the air,
like something was wrong.
And they were watching theselights.
And the, he said at one point itlooked like it was moving
towards them a bit.
So he got back in the Jeep andthey went back inside the base
and right there, like a, a radioshack or something, they can
(12:15):
just call it in.
So they call in that they, youknow, see something, they had
seen something really new,something that they just could
not identify it and know what itwas.
And so when they called it in,uh, Sergeant Peniston, who was
actually like a specialist orhad a lot of expertise in crafts
, um, so he should know whathe's talking about.
So he, you know, arrives at theguard shack with, or the radio
(12:35):
shack with airman ed cabin, sack, and Peniston.
He wanted to investigate thelights further, but, and they
also asked, I guess they alsoasked like their desk, I forgot
what they call it.
They have all these differentacronyms, but when they called
into the desk, if they had seenanything, they also put in a
call to Heathrow airport and hethrow had detected something.
(12:56):
But I guess they didn't reallyknow what it was.
So he throw had picked up onsomething as well.
Interesting.
So back to penicillin andBurroughs, and also with a cabin
sag and Stephens, Stephens didnot want to go.
He's like, Nope, I'm good.
I'm going to stay here.
You guys can go.
And he was really rattled by it,but who wouldn't be?
So they go further out and theyget out of their Jeeps.
(13:18):
And again, people said that, youknow, they could least John was
saying, and I heard this anotherreport too, like Peniston that
it just felt like electricitywas in the air.
And the three of them went likein a staggered formation and
cabin sack.
He was first.
I'm not exactly sure where Johnwas at, where he was positioned
if like he was in the middle orbehind, but Kevin sack, he was
first and there's a lot ofdifferent, um, a lot of
(13:41):
different narratives as far aswhether or not they took their
weapons or not.
John says at one time that hedidn't think that he brought his
weapon, but pentostatin andcabin sacks said that he did.
So they go up this Hill, hecalled it a burb.
I've never heard of that before.
Have you, what was it called?
A berm I've heard of that like,like on the berm of the road or
something like that.
Yeah.
So he said there was a berm,like a small Hill and they went
(14:03):
up it and I guess just as theycrusted it, that they could see
like this bright light andaccording to him and gave a
pulse and they hit the groundand then it shot straight up.
So that's boroughs.
That's what he said.
Wow happen.
Um, so for at least part of it,that's, John's account of what
happened, Sergeant Peniston.
And it seems like there's some,perhaps maybe some tension
(14:24):
between the two of them and I'mnot sure penicillin's retelling
of the event has morphed orchanged throughout the years.
Um, it's evolved throughout theyears.
And based on his account, he hassaid, now that he was able to
touch it was a craft.
It wasn't just a light or itwasn't just like a big ball of
lights or he was able toapproach the craft and touch it.
(14:46):
And it was triangular.
And that when he did this, hegot this binary download and
there were, there were likeglyphs, like hieroglyphics on
it, like he had never seenbefore.
So his stories of all differenttime, for whatever reason who
knows.
Um, but John, I mean, he I've,like I said, I've listened to
hours and hours of him beinginterviewed.
And he seems like he's pretty,you know, upfront about things.
(15:06):
Like, I don't know.
He's willing to say, I, I don'tknow.
Versus I think sometimes alwaysregard people, the suspicion
that seemed like they know allthe answers or, yeah.
He doesn't seem as if he'sreluctant to say he doesn't
know, which I think is a goodquality.
I just wanted to ask you reallyquickly on Peniston.
You said the binary download.
So he was he saying that when hetouched it, that something
downloaded into his brain.
(15:28):
Yep.
That's exactly what he said.
He also said that he had anotebook with him.
So it went from them, I think,always in a reporting, the same
thing.
And then it evolved to Penistonsaying that he approached it.
It was triangular.
He saw glyphs, he laid his handson it and he got this binary
download.
So like zeros and ones like thatwould be used for computer,
computer programming.
(15:49):
Did he say he did anything withthat?
He produced the key, produce alittle notebook that he had that
he wrote in years later.
So then there's that.
So, so John goes home and heonly sleeps for a bit and he
wakes back up and he's thinking,you know, something's not right.
I just feel like I have to gothere again.
(16:09):
And he goes to base cause he wasliving downtown.
He wasn't living on base at thattime.
And he gets there and he wasfriends with the person who ran
the desk.
I don't know if it's a deskSergeant or what you would call
them, but they're like, youwon't believe it's something
else happened.
Something else went down.
So on the night of the 26, therewas another officer that they
saw some funny things out theretoo.
(16:29):
She went out there and her Jeepand I think she had someone who
was accompanying her, but theydidn't say who it was already.
I didn't find out who that was.
So her last name was Tamblyn.
So evidently she goes down thereand there's this blue ball of
light shoots to her windowthrough her car and it cut out
the car, cut out.
Supposedly she was like reallyupset and distraught about what
(16:50):
happened.
And she was relieved of herduties for that night.
And that's per Burroughs who gotthis from someone else.
And I think she's actually maybethe most interesting figure in
this whole entire case.
Like what, why do you, whatmakes you say that?
I say that because she's nevercome out on the record and John
on the Jimmy church show, Jimmyhad asked him, okay, has anyone
(17:12):
tried to get in touch with her?
And he's like, he's actually, Ihad someone try to find her in
2010, you said 10.
So I'm assuming he met 2010.
And he said, the closest wecould get was that being told
that she was living off the gridin Italy and she did not wish to
be contacted.
Really.
Yeah.
So I just find if all the Pthere were a lot of, well, there
(17:33):
was several people throughoutthis who didn't want to be seen,
like interviewed like Stephensis one of them in England.
And I'm going to talk aboutlater, he's another, but she
just seems like she's a totalghost.
Yeah.
And it sounds like, you know,this encounter really made a
huge impression on her.
Yes.
As it would, yes.
With anyone.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, I would be a screaming mess.
I think
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Go would be, if I was alone, I would be, if I was with
somebody else too, though, I'dbe very interested in trying to
figure out what it was.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
What do you think we do if we were together, do you
think, would we be fearlessIntrepid investigator?
Would we, would we run the otherway?
I think we'd be screaming.
It kind of thing.
So too, but I kind of hope thatwe would approach it.
I want my binary down.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You don't see that happening.
That's approaching it.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
No, I think it depends on what kind of frame of
mind we're in for drunk.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah.
So that's what he heard.
That's what John Burroughs was,what was reported to him?
Whether or not that's true.
I don't know, but I don't seewhy he would, you know, I don't
know why he would fabricate thator not, but I would love to see
if someone could, could somehowget her to agree to be
interviewed.
But if it's been all this time,I do not see that happening.
(18:48):
And what does it mean to be offthe grid?
Does that mean to be like youhave no, like you don't have a
cell phone
Speaker 2 (18:54):
During that.
Yeah.
Does that mean when I hear offthe grid?
I think like you're not usingany power, you know, at least
from like the power line systemthat you're completely
self-sufficient that you're kindof not in touch with the rest of
the world.
That's what I think it means,but who knows?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah.
I kind of think of like it LindaHamilton from the Terminator
running around with a shotgunand hiding her cell phone.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I kind of take a preppers and things like that.
Like the New Mexico desert orsomething.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So apparently at that time she was off the grid,
Speaker 2 (19:23):
But to be off the grid in Italy is pretty nice.
I was thinking that too.
I'm thinking that
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Bad.
All that bad.
Yeah.
So anyway, we digress.
There's just a lot of, a lot oftwists and turns with this.
Okay.
So fast forward two nightslater, and this is per the book
written by Nick Pope and thenalso also burrows and Peniston
in the book.
It says that there's this andalso, Oh, okay.
Also if there's a unsolvedmysteries episode on this from
(19:51):
ages ago and they actuallyinterview some of the people
that were involved.
So per uh, Pope's book, I'm justgoing to call it Pope's book.
There was Lieutenant BruceEngland and there was actually
an awards or Christmas party.
And I know it's like a few daysafter Christmas, but they
couldn't book the hall orwhatever it was they needed.
So I had to be held a few dayslater, Bruce England, he went to
(20:12):
this awards, dinner kind ofburst in.
And at that time, the Lieutenantcommander was Lieutenant Colonel
Charles halt, and he's going toplay a significant part in this.
So he burst in and he says, it'sback.
And, and he's like, what?
You know, Holtz superior wasthere too.
And so whole basically, youknow, they said, you know, what,
(20:33):
what are you talking about?
What's back.
And they're like, he's like theUFO is back, haul, draws the S
the, um, short straw.
And he has to go check it out.
And he was just going to go, godown there and quickly debunk
it.
He brings along a guy whoactually has like a Geiger
counter.
And he also orders that thesethings that they called Lidells,
(20:53):
and they're basically like theseenormous lights that they use
when they're repairing aircraftin the dark.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Oh, okay.
I think I've seen something likethat.
Like on the highway, whenthey're doing road work at night
or something,
Speaker 1 (21:04):
It would be like comparable to kind of that, but
maybe a little bit taller.
I don't know.
So he orders those to be broughtout to, and they're run by gas,
but they kept malfunctioning.
I mean, they only worked like, Ithink a few times during the
course of that night.
So the team that Holtz assembledto dispel what was going on, um,
one of them was Sergeant MonroeNevilles, and he had a
(21:25):
background in disasterpreparedness, and there was also
a master Sergeant Bobby Ball.
And he was actually, um,interviewed for unsolved
mysteries too.
So if you were to look at thatand in a wholesale, original
account, and this is the otherto me, the other mystery, and
Holt's original account of whathappened that night, he did not
acknowledge that Burroughs wasthere really that's weird, at
least publicly, he did not.
(21:46):
And burrows, he actually arrivedto the scene where, you know,
halt them or checking thingsout.
And he eventually got back there.
Halt tried to deny for many,many years that Burroughs was
back helping them search.
It was Burroughs.
And there was this other guy,his name is Adrian.
[inaudible].
So Burroughs and Vicenza they'repaired together.
And halts, according toBurroughs, tells him to go out
(22:08):
and investigate these lightsbecause by the time halt got
there, he could see the lightsof the sky.
And at one point in time, it wassending down these beams, Oh my
Lord.
He saw these beams of light.
And at one point it shown a beamdown like right in front of him
and his men.
And at another time it wasbeaming down on like this
storage area, like this weapons,storage area that they have.
(22:32):
So burrows and Justine's, orthey go out to investigate
further.
And as they got close, he saidthat the light came towards them
and that they both went down tothe ground.
But the Steans reported that heactually saw John being hit with
like a beam of light and the waythat he described it as like
John disappeared for a bit, likeyou would see, like there's a
(22:52):
really old star track chose andstuff.
How do we, you know, beamsomebody up, beam me up, Scotty,
do you think he was being dumb?
I kind of wonder because a lotof people Peniston also said at
one time that the same thingthat he witnessed the same thing
happened to John when they firstapproached it the very first
night that it happened earlymorning that it happened.
But again, you know, Penistonstory has evolved over time.
(23:14):
Yeah.
And Burroughs is not discountingthat that's a possibility.
Did he
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Lose memory or lose time or anything that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I'm glad that you brought that up.
When they, the three of themwent out when it was Peniston
burrows and then cabin sack,evidently the base lost all
communications with them for 45minutes.
So when they got back, they hadlost 45 minutes of time.
Cause they asked what time itwas.
That's weird.
Isn't it?
It is weird.
It's very weird.
What I didn't mention too, wasthat halt, when he took his crew
(23:44):
out there, they find depressionsin the ground that looked like
it had been left perhaps by acraft of some kind.
And they also detected radiationin that area.
And then also they detectedradiation on some of the trees
because they were like branchesand stuff broken off of the
trees because when the crafttook off the first time, it
decided it just shot straightup.
You know, it just shot straightup in the sky.
(24:06):
So I probably knocked branchesand stuff like that down as it
was going along.
And the other interesting thingabout halt is that he was
someone who always carriedaround like a voice recorder
with him at the time.
And you have to figure that's 40years ago.
I think for that time, you know,it was a bit unusual.
So he'd always carried somethinglike that around with him.
And just, I think a few yearsago they released that tape or
(24:29):
parts of that tape is only about18 minutes long, but it was, it
should have been a much longer,there was like starts and stops
and things like that, which youdo with a recorder when you're
recording yourself.
So I don't necessarily find thatas being suspicious.
Was there a lot of profanity?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
No, really.
I would
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Have been like what that is.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
100%.
Yeah.
I totally would have been likethat.
So you can hear this going on inreal time, but you had this, you
know, verbal account of what'sgoing on.
And if you remember, I told youburrows, there seems to be like
some type of tension or maybesome bad blood between them.
I don't know why, but Bruce hadsaid that he had denied that
(25:07):
Burroughs was even there thatnight when, you know, he was out
there himself, he actually hadto reverse course and, and
acknowledge that Burroughs wasthere because his name was
mentioned on the tape when he'ddeny, he, he seems like a jerk
to me.
Like, why would you denysomething like a basic fact like
that?
I don't know.
I don't know either.
I think about that too.
And that's, to me, like otherthan this Tamblyn that's off the
(25:31):
grid, why would, why would haltlie about something like that?
It's really odd, but was it haltor was it Peniston who lied
about that?
It was hall.
It was hall because halt is theLieutenant Colonel.
And he was the one that, youknow, was at the awards IC.
He was at the awards banquet.
And he's like, I'm just going togo down there and put this to
rest.
(25:52):
So I think, yeah, you askingthat that's one of the, to me,
one of the mysteries too, is thefact that we'll why, why lie
about something like that?
If you indeed, you know?
Yeah.
I don't, I don't get themotivation at all.
You know, why would you notmention him?
So I don't know what themotivation would be either.
And I don't understand whyburrows two, wouldn't say, well,
you know, he left me out of hisaccount and this is why I think
(26:15):
he did it.
But for whatever reason, burrowsdoes not seem happy with halt at
all.
He didn't say anything.
Well, he did say that, I don'tknow if he used the word lie,
but that he provided differentaccounts and that he was forced
to acknowledge that, that Johnwas there that night halt and
his men, they saw this light,they saw that it, you know, made
(26:37):
this new, when it took off inthe sky, it was beaming down and
Robert and ball CUSA guy.
One of the guys that, you know,here had mentioned very often,
but he was the person that wasone of the people that was
interviewed and unsolvedmysteries.
And he said that he felt forcertain, that this thing was
doing like a grid search, like agrid search, like looking for
(26:58):
something, which I thought wasreally interesting.
It is interesting, especiallybecause it's over a military
base or whatever in thatmilitary base at that time had
like this huge, huge arsenal ofnuclear weapons.
Haultain other people said thatit was under intelligent control
(27:18):
and there, and they believed,and at one point it bursts and
it goes like into five differentlike balls of light really.
Yeah.
Later they see like three more,like, I guess are more
elliptical looking shapeseventually, you know, eventually
those disappear too.
So halt hold had written a memo.
I think it was a couple of weeksafter the incident and it got
(27:40):
the date wrong with the incidentthat he was involved with, that
he wrote that was supposed to goto, you know, the British air
force.
Okay.
And it was something like, itwas entitled.
This is an understatement of thecentury, um, unusual lights.
And so someone finally obtainedthat through the freedom of
(28:00):
information act and got that.
So his memo came to light tosupport, you know, what was
cited.
And in 2015 there was aninterview conducted by the BBC
with halt.
And again, he said, you know,whatever was there was, was
obviously under intelligentcontrol.
My personal feeling is thatthere was some type of
(28:21):
mothership or bigger entity orsomething that was controlling
what was on the ground orperhaps some form of what we,
what we saw in the sky.
Wow.
And he also said during thatinterview that there were some
air traffic controllers thatlater on spoke to him about
their accounts, about whathappened.
And they said that they didn'tcome forward earlier because you
(28:42):
know, people would think thatyou were a nut and that would be
the end of your career, but theydid come forward.
And did they, they say somethingsimilar to what he had seen.
This is based on what halt saidto BBC.
Okay.
Whether or not these peopleactually came forward.
I didn't see anything to thateffect, but he's saying that he
had contact with them and thatthey had told him, yeah.
(29:05):
You know, we, we really did.
We saw it too, but we didn'twant to say anything because
this would, you know, and ourentire career in the air force.
So I had mentioned one of theco-authors Nick Pope and that he
was the employee of the ministryof defense Britain's ministry of
defense.
So while he was employed there,he had like this wide range of
duties and what they do thereevidently is that they try to
(29:29):
move you around the kind ofshift you around every few
years, I guess, to give youexperience.
But they shift employees aroundquite a bit there.
Okay.
So he ends up getting this gigto investigate UFO phenomena
really, and to determine whetheror not any defense significance.
So I'm sure, I'm sure he'spretty high up in the, in the
ministry of defense, but anyway,he landed all this.
(29:51):
So what a, what a great thing Iwould love.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
To have that job now, which,which kind of guy was this, this
was Nick Pope and he's aco-author of a book.
Wow.
It'd be fascinating to know allthe stuff that he knows about
that, that he can't talk about.
Exactly.
He had access to all the abodifiles from Rendlesham.
(30:15):
And when he sold that file, ithadn't been released to the
public.
So he went back and he did areview of the, of the case.
And I think of everything thathe's reviewed, that that's been
the most credible incident tohim and which, you know, cause
you had, I think the highestranking military official at the
time, that's on record sayingthat they had seen this and then
(30:35):
you have so many people there atthe same time.
Yeah.
And then you also have the, youknow, halt with his recorder.
Right.
Speaking about what washappening.
Yeah.
Very well-documented, you know,just so many witnesses and know
it's extremely well documented.
Do you think it's the bestdocumentary of any?
Yeah, I do.
I mean, I think, um, as I said,everybody makes such hay about
(31:00):
Roswell, but this to me farsurpasses all as well.
Another thing that's interestingis that burrows, he had a number
and even Peniston, he had anumber of health conditions as
you know, time went by, youknow, he, shortly after the
incident, bros got sick withsymptoms like with nausea,
things that resembling radiationexposure in 2011, boroughs
(31:21):
doctors discovered that he hadlike a mitral valve failure,
which is something at his age atthat time was considered, I
guess, unusual or usually happenin men, much older than him.
But you know, people have heartproblems, you know, everybody's
different.
But boroughs, what wasinteresting is that bruise
doctor could not get a hold ofhis, if his health records
really from, from the airports,I'm not sure if he was still in
(31:44):
the air force or not at thatpoint, but so his doctor could
not get ahold of his medicalrecords and they were deemed
classified by the VA and the VAevidently can classify your
medical records if you'reworking on something that's
classified, but what he wasworking on or just doing his
regular patrol and went out intothe forest that wasn't deemed,
you know, what he was doing atthe time wasn't classified.
(32:05):
Does that make sense?
What I'm trying to say, like,even though he ran into this
really unusual situation, Imean, my only thought is maybe
it becomes classified after thatpoint, because then it involves,
you know, this extra terrestrialstuff that they want to tamp
down.
But yeah, like he was just doinghis normal duties and he even
got Senator McCain's officeinvolved to try to get ahold of
(32:26):
those records in Burrow's lawyerand his legal team.
They were actually able toobtain a records through the
Britain's ministry of defense.
Oh.
So he did get them well, he wasable to, this is how he got
them.
They were able to findsomething, some documents who,
the British ministry of defense,which, and this is a quote, high
levels of radiation were in factpresent when burrows and the
(32:49):
UFO's met.
Wow.
So based on that, they were ableto get ahold of his, I guess, of
his medical records, his fullmedical records, because they
were able to obtain this otherdocument.
Okay.
Through the British governmentsaying that he was, um, exposed
to high levels of radiation.
I'm surprised you can come downwith cancer or some sort of like
(33:10):
that.
Then he had problems too.
But from what I've seen in, ofcourse I, this could go on for a
decade trying to research thisor a lifetime.
I didn't see him go intoPennEast and go into what
specifically what his, what hismedical problems were and Pope.
He also, I think he's the onewho alerted boroughs to this, or
(33:30):
he's the one who got thedocuments, but Pope went on and
he alerted some other witnessesthat believe that they suffered
some health problems, do theexposure, the object.
And he found a, a document, adeclassified document.
And it was called on identifyphenomenon and in the UK air
defense region volume two.
(33:50):
And this is a quote from thatdocument.
The well reported Rendleshamforest slash bent water event is
an example of where it ispostulated that several
observers were probably exposedto a UAP radiation for longer
than normal UAP signing periods.
And UAP is actually a term thatPope came up with because when
he was trying to go back andinterview people, when he's
(34:11):
doing an investigation of these,of these UFO cold cases, the
minute you say UFO people shutdown.
So he gave it this termunidentified aerial phenomenon.
When he used UAP, when he wasinterviewing people, they were
much more willing to open up.
Is that still being used today?
Is that kind of replaced UFO?
Yeah.
It has big time.
(34:31):
So unidentified aerialphenomenon.
Interesting.
Yeah.
UAP.
So again, it was a line, it wasa line from a declassified
British intelligence memo calledunidentified phenomenon in UK
air defense region volume two.
And it said the well reportedRendlesham forest slash bent
water event is an example ofwhere it is postulated that
several observers were probablyexposed to UAP radiation for
(34:54):
longer than normal UAP sightingperiods.
But I don't know if it stuck outto you too.
It's like, obviously they haveother, you know what I'm saying?
And they're saying that there'sbeen more than one slide in
there acknowledging yeah.
That didn't, I didn't catch on,but you're absolutely right.
The most recent interview that Ilistened to with Burroughs that
was on the Jimmy church, um,show I think was from about a
(35:15):
year ago.
And he's also been through likesome hypnosis and he didn't
really go into like what wasretrieved during those sessions,
but he's gone through that.
And he seemed to think that Iguess, whatever it was, that
there was credibility to it.
And he thinks that when he wasasked by Jimmy church, well,
what do you think this is?
(35:35):
And, or was, and seems to thinkthat there's some type of
unusual phenomenon that's justoccurring in that specific
region really area.
And that he also thinks thatbased on his discussions, I
guess, with some other peoplethat perhaps it could have been
some weapon Dory or some, youknow, some type of technology
that our government had at thattime.
(35:57):
You mean what they, what theysaw or what the UAP would have
been interested in, what theysaw, I guess, I think what they
saw, but he seems to think like,it's either one or the other or
both.
It seems like he might be likethinking that or his, his
thinking, I don't want to speakfor him, but I think his belief
is that it could be a little bitof both.
Like there's some really wildphenomenon that's happening in
(36:21):
that region.
They don't know why.
And that also it could have beenweaponry or technology that that
was really, really top secret,which, you know, with that, if I
buy that with a weaponry, Imean, I can totally see it.
And other reports thathappening, it could just be
something that we're testing andnot let anybody know.
But why would you do it betweenthose two air force spaces?
(36:41):
Yeah.
That's like an odd place to doit.
I think that's really odd too.
I was, I think I was telling youthis earlier, but I watched this
interesting documentary it'sfrom 2020 called phenomenon
about UFO's UAPs.
And when you talked about in thestory, the part about, you know,
how there were a lot of nuclearweapons housed on this base,
maybe think of there's a part ofthe documentary and I, they go
over so much in the documentary.
(37:02):
I can't remember exactly wherethis is, but they, there are
some stories and it wasn'tRendlesham, but where they
thought whatever the object wasseemed interested in was kind of
doing a search of where weaponswere stored.
And, and that seems to be atheme with UAPs.
Um, almost like they, I don'tknow if they, if they want to
know what we have or if theysomehow want to destroy what we
(37:23):
have, which would probably be agood idea if they destroyed all
the nuclear weapons, it justmakes you wonder.
I don't know.
I mean, it makes sense thatthat, you know, they would be
interested in our militarybases, but I don't know if I buy
yeah.
I'm with you.
I don't know if I buy that.
We have something that's thatadvanced and top secret, you
know, I've heard, I've heardpeople talk about that actually
in this documentary, they talkabout that.
(37:44):
Um, some people who are high upand they say, you know, as far
as I know, we had nothing thatwould resemble, you know, any of
these things that people haveseen other places.
So, I mean, this scene justseems so off the charts that, I
mean, does I just don't, I mean,I could see as we just, as we
were talking about earlier, Ican see where with other
sightings, that might be thecase that we have something
that's some huge craft that'sflying overhead and people
(38:07):
spotted or something orsomething unusual.
But yeah, it seems like thatthis technology is just so
beyond anything that we couldhave had then, or even now.
Exactly.
I think I used to be moreskeptical.
I've always been kind of afraidof UFO's just really Luke.
Ooh, I don't want to seesomething like that, but it
would be very curious to see it,but I really do believe that
(38:29):
they exist.
I mean, there's just, the more Ihear from people who've
witnessed it, you know, on someof these shows, which seem very
credible.
Like this documentary seemedextremely credible.
There's too many, too manyinstances.
I know it was like counted Brianthings on a complete nut.
He doesn't believe in any ofthis stuff.
Brian is my husband in case somepeople don't know who that is.
(38:50):
Um, well he bright is theworld's biggest skeptic.
I mean, I have never met abigger skeptic than this boy.
He's, he's always shooting andhe's just extremely rational,
but I don't think this stuff isirrational.
We'll see.
I don't either.
I just try to think of it.
Like what is the most likely,and to me the most likely
(39:11):
scenario is that, but it wasYeti, Yeti, I'm sorry.
You were going to say secondaryto, to Yeti.
Um, no, I just think like the, Ithink about, and I feel like I'm
rational for the most part.
I try to think, well, what isthe most likely scenario?
And what I think is the mostlikely is that it is something
(39:34):
that we just don't know what itis.
And I think when people think ofUFO now known as UAP, they think
of, you know, space beings in a,in a craft and it doesn't
necessarily have to be that whoknows what it is.
So what do you think of the, uh,Rendlesham incident?
So that was such an interestingstory.
(39:55):
Wow.
Um, and I actually hadn't heardabout that.
So I'm really interested.
Um, 1980 was a long time ago,but you're right.
It, it really does seem like itwas very well-documented there
were so many players involved init.
Um, so yeah, that's a bit of astory thing.
Yeah.
Hard to keep all of those peoplestraight, but I think, think you
(40:15):
manage to, to tell it in a waythat, that we could, so that was
awesome.
Well, you know, like every storycalls for a toast at the end.
So what do you think, what doyou think we should toast to
tonight?
Jen?
Well, let's, um, let's toast tonot being abducted by aliens and
having, and having our eggs,harvested what you want to toast
(40:37):
to having our eggs harvested andnot having our let's toast to
not having it,
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Your eggs harvested.
Okay.
Because I'm like, that soundslike those sound like two very
good things.
Not being abducted and nothaving our eggs harvested by
aliens.
I'm I'll drink to that.
If they hear, if they harvestedour eggs, they would be like,
we've been ripped off.
We got to go back and get somedecent eggs.
(41:02):
This is ridiculous.
Exactly.
They'd say in your words, Jen,they'd be like, these eggs are
busted.
You're here.
My friends, my friends you'rehere.
Thank you to everyone wholistens.
The best thing you can do tohelp us grow is to like review
on subscribe on iTunes and evenbetter yet tweet about us or
post about us on Facebook.
Tell your friends if you thinkthey would like us and have a
(41:24):
good night.
(42:22):
[inaudible].
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