December 30, 2020 • 37 mins
We like to think we can protect ourselves and those we love from danger. But what happens when we can't? Tonight we'll tell the story of one family left defenseless against otherworldly predators.
Have a topic suggestion? Email us at beneathyourbedpod@gmail.com
Paranormal Witness
Season 3, Episode 9
https://www.syfy.com/paranormal-witness/episodes/season/3/episode/9/the-wolf-pack
Dogman Encounters
https://dogmanencounters.com/maine-encounters/
Dogman Monsters Are Real/ FaceBook Group - Dogman Mystery
Wolf Pack - Shelley Rockwell-Martin Separates Fact From Fiction
http://dogman-monsters-are-real.blogspot.com/2013/08/wolf-pack-shelley-rockwell-martin.html
National UFO Reporting Center
Real Wolfmen: True Encounters in Modern America by Linda S. Godfrey (2012)
https://www.amazon.com/Real-Wolfmen-Encounters-Modern-America/dp/1585429082
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We like to think that we can protect ourselves and
those we love from danger, butwhat happens when we can't?
So tonight we'll tell the storyof one family left defenseless
against other worldly predators.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Jen, how are you?
My friend, Hey, I'm doing well,my friend,
Speaker 1 (00:19):
And it's good to be on tonight.
It is.
I've been looking forward to itall week.
It's a great way to unwind.
Definitely it's even better thanthe weekends.
I think.
Absolutely.
I mean, I look forward to theentire thing, but I also look
forward to the cocktail that weshare because it's kind of like
nice together time and we get tolearn new information and share
a drink and connect with all ofour listeners.
(00:41):
And that's, that's exciting.
And speaking of listeners,that's a good segue, Jen.
We didn't even plan that.
I don't really plan anything.
It's really much organic as youcan tell kind of like our lives.
Yes.
Yeah.
Speaking of our listeners, we dowant to give a shout out to some
people who have been actuallypretty faithful listeners.
We, you don't know how much weappreciate you because I mean,
(01:03):
we would do this anyway becausewe're having a good time and
we're, we're learning a lot andenjoying ourselves, but it means
so much to us that some of youare tuning in to listen and that
you're tuning in more than acouple of times.
So first off I want to thank ourlisteners in Clichy on the yield
of false, which I believe isnear par, uh, uh, new, uh,
(01:25):
equity.
I probably really grappled that,but forgive me.
I did my best.
We also want to thank ourfriends in Lake Stevens,
Washington in Stanford,Connecticut.
I wonder if Stanford is mybrother-in-law.
He might be Morgantown,Morgantown, West Virginia, which
is maybe our friend Colby, um,who we are hoping Colby.
(01:46):
Yay.
Colby.
We're hoping to have you on theshow in the new year.
And I just have to say aboutColby too.
I follow him on Facebook and heis like amazing at thrifting and
finding like the coolest stuff.
Um, when he's thrifting, whichis an interest of mine as well.
So I'm like always amazed.
Um, we also have somebody fromFrazier's bottom, West Virginia,
which is not too far fromHuntington where I grew up.
So I'm really curious who thatis.
(02:07):
I love my love, my fellow WestVirginians.
Um, we have rural Ridge,Pennsylvania, and we have, uh,
South salt Lake, Utah, just alittle, um, thing.
My, my husband was a Vista andhe was in salt Lake for, I think
about a year when he was like, Idon't know, 22 or 23.
Apparently he smoked a lot ofpot there.
So it was like the one time inhis life.
(02:30):
And I would like to give a shoutout to some of our other
listeners.
Um, we have a listener fromSanger, Texas, Chesapeake,
Virginia, Highland Springs,Virginia Tuckahoe, Virginia,
Washington, Virginia area Lakeshore, Maryland, Knoxville,
Tennessee, and Tacoma,Washington.
Thank you.
That is amazing.
It's exciting to think aboutpeople listening all over.
I love it.
(02:50):
So welcome.
We're so glad you're with us onthis crazy journey.
So what are you having to drinktonight?
My friend, well, I feel likethat's a really, I feel like
that's a really importantquestion tonight because I've
already had one.
I've had one of what I'mdrinking already.
I don't usually have more thanone drink during the week nights
and I don't drink every night.
I just don't want people tothink that you kind of do.
I do not, but that is neitherhere nor there.
(03:12):
What is here is the fact that Ihave this lovely.
I have this lovely drink infront of me.
And it is a cosmopolitan, whichI have never made, but it's one
of my favorite drinks to order.
It's kind of a girly drink, butI love it.
Can you hold it up so I can seeit?
Yeah.
And he's in a new service now,so we can see each other.
So that means I have to putmakeup on because I don't wanna,
I don't wanna look like a, shedoesn't want her to get fast
(03:34):
lunch.
I know.
I don't want to look like aSasquatch.
It's not even so much that Idon't want you to see me.
I don't want to see myself.
I think it's more about that.
It's like, am I really thatugly?
I think everybody feels that wayabout themselves online.
Can you see it?
I can see it.
So it should be Pinker.
But, um, so I'll tell you what'sin it.
It's vodka and it is Quantrowhich I have to tell you that
(03:57):
stuff ain't cheap.
Cause I went to the liquor storeto get some, but boy it smells
so delightful and it has freshsqueezed lime juice and then
cranberry juice.
But I used a pink, cranberryjuice and mine is like super
light.
So it's like a very pale palepink.
So yeah, it's delicious.
It's really good.
And as kind of boozy, can yousee what I'm holding up here?
I'm gonna, I need to minimize mynotes.
(04:19):
Let me just go back to here.
Yeah.
Oh, it's in your fancy, it's inyour fancy hurricane glass.
What is that?
I put most drinks in myhurricane glass because I can
double up anything else I wouldhave to.
That's a good idea to makeanother drink.
So I'm having to do over, doover.
Yeah.
I'm having to do over of my, myThai disaster.
Gosh, let me hold that thing upagain.
(04:40):
I need to see it.
Okay.
It looks good.
And that's what a, my tie shouldlook like.
Yes.
And it's not separating either.
So it's absolutely delicious andit has run two different types
of rum, clear rum, coconut rum,grenadine syrup, pineapple
juice, orange juice and ice.
And it's amazing.
I love a good Mai Tai.
(05:01):
I usually get a Mai Tai at theThai restaurant near here.
They have, they have really goodones.
I've never made one.
It just seems so ambitious tomake one.
I'm almost halfway through it.
I forgot to eat dinner tonight.
I'm just gonna have somecrackers Lord Jen.
So I'll do my best to stay ontask tonight.
So tonight, tonight, I'm goingto talk about, I don't even know
(05:22):
if I told you what I was goingto talk about tonight.
I don't think you did tell meyou told me like something, but
Jen, I forgot.
I'm sorry.
I'm just going to be honest.
Fine.
It's fine.
So I've been watching, I've beenwatching that series, paranormal
witness, you know, some of themare really well done.
So I've watched several of thoseand just looking at the ones
(05:43):
that kinda, I thought wouldstand out to me and I'm wanting
to cover one because it's trulyone of the creepiest stories
that I've heard involving.
Cryptids hilarious, scary, otherthan Bigfoot and bigfoots, just
really a of mine.
It's
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Not really that I'm scared that Bigfoot is going to
come and get me.
Or if I run into a big foot inthe wild, I don't know.
I mean maybe if that happens,I'd feel differently when I
think of cryptids I think of bigfoot that doesn't really scare
me that much, but this does, andjust cryptids in general, don't
scare me.
But when I came across the showand I watched it, it really,
(06:18):
really creeped me out.
You can watch it on paranormalwitness.
It's the third season and it'sepisode nine.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay.
I'm going to write that down soI can catch it tonight.
Episode third season, episodenine.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Cool.
I'm going to follow thestoryline that's in this
episode, but I'm also going toadd some things to it as well,
because there were someembellishments that the wife, it
involves a couple.
The name of the couple is Ericand Shelly Martin.
And when doing more research, Icame across that Shelly Martin
was not completely happy withhow that episode was filmed or
(06:53):
really did.
Yeah.
So she wasn't happy with some ofthe embellishments, but when I
go back and I look at it, um,and I'll tell you later, I'll
tell you later what she's, whatshe was unhappy with with, uh,
with the episode.
And she never identified thisthere, these creatures as being
wolves necessarily, or I didn'thear that in the episode.
(07:15):
So let me start my friend.
Let me regale you with thestory.
Cool.
I'm looking forward to beingreally scared.
Okay.
Maybe you won't find itfrightening, but I find it
frightening.
But then again, as we'vediscussed, the, the more and
more we go along with theseepisodes, we're finding a lot of
things that we're afraid of.
This story takes place inPalmyra, Maine in 2006 and
(07:35):
Palmyra is in central Maine.
And it's a very small town ofless than, or at least at this
time, it was, I believe it wasless than 2000 people or right
around the 2000 Mark.
And how it starts is, is thatEric and Shelly Martin and their
teenage daughter, Chelsea, theymoved to pal Myra.
And it was a difficult move fromthem.
And the reason why they moved isbecause Eric, he had worked in a
(07:58):
paper mill for over 20 years.
He worked with machinery and heended up blowing out a bunch of
disks in his back.
And so he was permanentlydisabled.
Oh wow.
And so Shelly wanted to get ajob or, or had gotten a job that
would be closer to home so shecould take care of him.
So they find this farm, or shefinds this farm at a local
paper.
It was a beautiful farm, lots ofroom fields.
(08:21):
It was secluded entirelysurrounded by these really dense
woods.
And I didn't come across as faras like how large the property
was or the important part is itwas just really, really remote.
That sounds kind of
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Like heaven, but also like it could be really scary.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Anything that's out in the middle of the middle of
nowhere.
I mean, I think it's beautiful,but at the same time, I think it
is frightening.
Especially if, you know, ifyou're just there with your
immediate family.
Right.
I would be very, very scaredwhen,
Speaker 1 (08:49):
When my mother-in-law was planning to live with us, we
went to look for, cause wethought we would need a bigger
house.
So we went to look for one, wewent way
Speaker 3 (08:56):
South of the County and found this beautiful house
to run, but it was surrounded bytrees and forest.
I was all for it.
And she was like, there are toomany trees, so we ended up not
renting it.
But yeah, she definitely, maybeshe helped us Dodge, a bullet or
something.
Did she ever elaborate or no,she was just really freaked out
by the rural nature.
I mean, she was from rural, wellkind of like town Ireland, but,
(09:19):
but yeah, she was, she did not,she did not get a good vibe,
obviously.
So it's important to, to pointout with Eric is that he's an
avid outdoorsman.
He was an avid Hunter.
Shelly though.
She was really uncomfortablewith having guns in the house.
So when they moved there, Erichad his older son who didn't
live there in the sameresidence.
(09:40):
He had his older son come overand they built like the strong
box.
They put all the guns in thereand then they put it in the barn
and they'll lock the barn.
And as I was saying, Eric camefrom a long line of hunters.
He said that he had hunted justabout everything that you could
hunt and in Maine, that waslegal, including Shelly.
(10:02):
Oh my God.
All right.
I'm sorry.
Oh, geez.
Um, I'm past halfway here, Jen.
Okay.
Now this is interesting.
So they make a habit of it todevelop some type of routine and
to do something together.
And I think to keep their mindoff of those circumstances, that
are the circumstances that wereimpacting their lives at that
(10:22):
time.
So they would sit out back onthe porch every evening.
So one night when they're outthere, they're sitting out there
just chit chatting and Shellynotices some lights in the
woods.
They would like pulsate.
So they would come on reallystrong and then they would fade
out and she pointed out to Eric,like, do you see that?
And Eric son came to the houseand he could see it too.
(10:44):
At first he said that he thoughtit was like a flashlight in the
distance, but he made astatement that just kind of
resonated with me.
And he had said, this is a quoteabout the lights.
Um, but it seemed the more wenoticed, the more it started
changing and moving around.
And so they decided, theythought, well, it could be
poachers.
He went out there with his dad,they had their guns and they
(11:05):
were looking around.
Eric was saying that it wasreally, really quiet.
He just, just had this eeriefeeling.
And when you would step on abranch or a twig, it would like
echo and you just couldn't hearanything else.
So they split up and they lookedaround and Eric just felt like
he was being watched.
And he just became really,really uneasy.
(11:25):
And at one point he said that hethought he saw something to the
left of him, but it disappearedreally quickly while they're out
there.
They couldn't find anyindication that it was anyone or
animals had been there eitherthe next day or within a few
days.
It seemed, they didn't give aspecific timeline.
Chelsea went for a walk in thewoods with her, with her
boyfriend, Nate he's now herhusband.
(11:46):
And they were walking the dogsand the dogs got up ahead of
them.
And when they caught up with thedogs, the dogs were barking by
this whole.
When you watch the episode, itlooks like it's some really
large, some type of den thatsome type of animal has dug.
But when you listen to what Natesays, he, he describes it as a
hole that was intentionally dog,either by a person or by an
(12:07):
animal.
Chelsea was uneasy and she justwanted to go home.
So they went home.
I don't blame Chelsea.
Yeah.
I don't blame her either.
On Memorial day, weekend orMemorial weekend, Eric and
Shelley are sitting outside ontheir back porch.
And they said it was unusuallyquiet.
There was like, no sheep, nohorses, no cows, no deer because
of this.
(12:27):
It seems like she, she wascurious.
So she picks up this flashlightor these really like large
flashlights.
It looks like a kind of like afloodlight, a little bit.
One of those, not like yourtypical flashlight or at least
that's how it was portrayed inthis episode.
And she grabs it and she beginslooking in the field and she
didn't see anything.
So she just turned theflashlight off and she sat back
down.
And after she put the lightdown, Eric got this feeling that
(12:49):
he just, he just felt like thisreally, he was overcome with his
feeling that they were indanger.
It's just really, really, reallyoverwhelming, very strong
feelings.
So, okay.
He doesn't tell her that.
So Eric, he grabbed her by theshirt and he was trying to pull
her along.
Like, let's go inside, let's goinside.
And she could tell that he wasafraid.
All of a sudden she could hearthis rustling.
So she takes a flashlight againand she points it in the
(13:12):
direction of the noise.
And then they saw these threeset of eyes looking right back
at them and Jesus.
And they described them asalmost being fluorescent.
And then they hear another soundand they point the flashlight in
that direction.
And they see two more of thesethings.
Eric said that it appeared as ifthey were mad and that they
wanted to come at them.
(13:32):
So they rushed into the houseand they locked the doors and
then they sit down on the floor,you know, just trying to get it.
They don't want them to seethem.
Yeah.
But Shelly, she wants to look atthem again.
So she, she takes a flashlightand she shows it out there
again.
And he's telling her not to dothat.
But she said that she justwanted to get another look at
them because she just wanted tomake sense of what she was
(13:52):
seeing and all she, all theycould see at this point where
the eyes, the way they describedit, they said, clearly it was
not a bear, but it was huge.
And it was really dangerouslooking in the episode they look
Wolf like, and they could standon two legs.
So at some point they look likethey're crouching and look like,
you know, like a Wolf lightthing.
And then they would stand andthey'd have like these kind of
(14:14):
spindly Harry appendages.
It's really frighteningappendages like legs or yeah,
like legs or front legs andokay.
They could either be on allfours or appear to be on all
fours or they could stand on mylegs and arms would be kind of
hanging down.
Yeah.
Um, so they're seeing thisthey're really freaked out by
it.
They don't know what it is, butthey know it's not like any
(14:37):
other form of wildlife thatthey've ever seen.
And he should know because he'sa Hunter and you know, a Hunter
from Maine and the deep woods ofMaine.
So he knows what he's talkingabout.
So their panic and just likeanybody else, they're trying to
figure out, you know, what do wedo?
And Eric felt really helplessbecause, and he describes this
or he States this several timesduring this particular episode
that he just felt so helplessbecause, you know, he viewed as
(15:00):
being a husband and a father.
It was his job to protect hisfamily, but he couldn't do it.
You know, he's injured.
He doesn't have his weapons andhe really just doesn't know what
to do at this point.
He wasn't even sure that theywould be safe in the house if
they didn't have weapons.
So we think, Oh, I was justgoing to ask, what did Kelly do?
So Shelly runs upstairs to checkon Chelsea.
(15:20):
And TLC's probably around 17 atthis point in time and she's
tired and she's a teen and shewakes her and she's like, you
know, I want you to come look atthis, come look at this.
And so Chelsea gets up she'sbleary-eyed and she's like,
whatever, I'm going back to bed.
So while she's checking onChelsea and she tells Eric not
to go outside, he decides thathe's going to go to his truck.
(15:41):
So he's thinking if I can justget to my truck, I can back it
up to the house and I can get myfamily and we can leave.
But it's 25, 30 feet away.
He severely injured.
He's in a lot of pain and it'saffecting his gate and he
decides he's going to do it.
So he makes a break for it.
This reminds me of night of theliving dead.
You know, when they're decidingthat they're going to try to
make a run for it and get in thecar.
(16:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so he goes, and he goes outto the truck and he's fumbling
with his keys and he can seethese things.
They were in a distance and thenall the sensor lights went off
and he saw one of these things.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
And he was afraid it was goingto attack him, but that, it just
kind of disappeared.
It like disappeared.
Like it ran away or justdisappear like it, like it ran
(16:25):
away.
And if you, if you watch theepisode, it makes it look like
this thing is like four feetfrom him.
And that's one of the thingsthat Shelley disputed later, she
was saying that it wasn't thatclose to him, but it takes off.
He goes back in the house andshe's of course off at him
because he went out there whenshe begged him not to go and
(16:45):
they decide they're going tocall nine one one.
So she calls nine one one.
And she was trying to explainwhat was going on.
That there were these thingsthat were trying to, you know,
attack them or get in the house.
And they probably thought shewas crazy.
And they did.
And I think it was an officershe was speaking to.
Cause I have a feeling this townwas so small that you probably
didn't have dispatch is my guess, but I don't know that for
(17:08):
sure.
So she's trying to explain, likethere are these things and
they're trying to get in thehouse or they're going to attack
us and the person on the otherline officer or dispatch or
whatever is saying, well, is it,you know, is it a bear or a dog
or a moose?
And she's like, no, no, no, it'snot any of those things.
And so what the officer told herto do or dispatch told her to do
is just lock all the doors andthe windows and then they just
(17:31):
hung up on her.
And so they, at this point theyfeel like, okay, they're really
on their own.
And I don't know if they didn'tknow anyone in that town.
And I don't know how far the sonlived, their adult son lives.
But I guess that's the only partof the story to me, that kind of
doesn't mesh is that I know thatI would be calling my family, my
(17:51):
friends to get your guns andcoming out there, come out
there.
But I don't know what thecircumstances were.
They never explained that.
And two, I think if you, youknow, if you live in the
country, I've known like peopleseem to be very self-sufficient
and they really don't like toask for help.
That's true.
So maybe that played into it aswell versus you or me.
I mean, it would be, you know,we would call everyone and he
(18:14):
sounds like he was definitely aguy who believed in this
masculine code.
Like I need to protect myfamily.
You know, I don't need to callin all of this help.
I can handle it kind of thing.
Am I right?
Or, yeah, he just, yeah, he wasvery much adhere to that code.
He definitely had that mindsetthat, you know, I'm the man, I'm
the husband, I'm, you know, the,uh, the father and I need to
protect my family, but he wasfeeling really inadequate
(18:36):
because of the circumstances andyou know, his health.
And I would imagine because itwas health and also because he
didn't have anything to protectthem with.
So he decides, I don't knowwhere at this point, I don't
know if she went, I think Shellywent maybe back upstairs to, to
wake Chelsea, to really wake herup this time.
And he decides that he's like, Ihave to have to go and get my
(18:59):
guns or I have to get a gun.
And it's in the barn.
It's a great deal of distanceaway.
And he could see those thingsoff in the distance.
He decides that he's going to goout and try to do this.
He started thinking that when heinitially went out to his truck
and the flood lights came on andthe sensor lights came on,
that's when the, the beast orwhatever it was took off.
(19:19):
So he was thinking if I go outthere, I set the sensors off and
then I try to use that time toget to the barn.
Okay.
Well that makes some sense.
Uh, I don't know.
It didn't seem like a reallygood plan to me, but Hey, so I
mean, if you have to do it, Imean, at least he had, at least
he had somewhat of a plan, sohe's going out there and he's
trying to trip the sensor and itcomes on.
(19:40):
And then he sees these thingsand they're to the left, to the
right of him and the lightsstill on at that point.
So I guess that was keeping themat Bay.
They were kind of on theperiphery, but they were taking
that formation, like wolves door animals would do when they're
going to attack, they're goingto pack in there and attack
someone.
So he manages to get back in thehouse while the light was still
(20:01):
on.
He stumbles inside, he runs intoShelly and then they hear
something and they realize thatthese things are on the porch.
They are not, they are not onthe porch.
Yes, they're on the porch.
So, Oh, they decide at thispoint they just decide, okay,
what are we going to do?
We're just going to go into ourbedroom.
We're all going to get on thebed and we're just gonna wait.
And they, you know, it was areally long night they're
(20:23):
waiting.
And they said that it wasdisconcerting because they could
hear these things outside on theporch.
And they just realize that theonly thing that was keeping them
apart was a wall or a windowbecause there was even a window
in that room was their bedroom,was their bedroom on the bottom
floor where the porch was.
That's a good question.
Because when you look at it, italmost seemed like in the
episode that it was on thebottom floor, but I'm not
(20:45):
certain, I know Chelsea's roomwas upstairs, but
Speaker 1 (20:48):
They had a view on them.
So like from their bedroom, theycould see what was going on out
there.
Cause I think I, it would makeme so think what would be most
terrifying would be maybeupstairs and not be able to see
what's going on.
And then if something comes inthe house
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Cornered, right, you're trapped.
She didn't look out again.
As far as I could tell, shedidn't look out again.
They didn't look out again.
They just were on the bed, justhuddle close together.
And he's trying to reassure herthat, you know, things are going
to be okay, even though hereally wasn't convinced that
that was the case.
And he was holding her hand andsqueezing it.
And he said he could just feelher hand tremble and his well,
(21:21):
and they could hear like, um,you know, they could hear them
outside.
They could hear, hear this lowguttural sound.
So they were terrified.
It's terrifying.
At this point in the episode,they had fallen asleep and then
something comes through thewindow and then Shelley wakes up
and realizes, this is just adream.
Um, and that was something elsethat was embellished in this
episode that she was unhappywith later on.
(21:43):
I don't blame her.
Yeah.
So the next day his son comesover and they go out to look to
see if they could find anytraces of whatever it was out
there on their property.
And they didn't find anything.
The only thing that they foundwere like these huge tracks and
it looked like they werestanding on two legs rather than
four.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
What do they look like?
I mean, were they, did they havetoes?
Were they, did they describe it?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
They didn't really spend a whole lot of time on it.
It just looked like a ginormous,maybe I think maybe like a Wolf
print or something, but don't,I'm not exactly sure.
I don't really recall.
I think that's what it was.
Yeah.
So they say to this day thatthey really, they have no idea
what it was.
I mean, they won't, you know,they didn't have words for it,
but they know what they saw wasunlike anything that they'd ever
(22:29):
seen.
So with that, I'm just, this isconjecture on my part or someone
on my part
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I heard of the dog ban.
I have heard a little, I mean, II've heard of it, but I really
don't know anything about it.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah.
I'd heard of it too.
And I don't know anything aboutit either until recently the dog
man, it's part of Michiganfolklore and it was evidently
the first time it was, it wasseen, was reportedly seen.
It was in 1887 and it wasdescribed as this huge creature,
like seven foot tall, but it wasblue or Amber bride.
And it was had like a caninehead and like a torso of a man.
(23:05):
And so they had like this, youknow, really loud how, and it
was on the, like a human scream.
So that's what, how theydescribed the dog man.
And in the depictions, in theepisode, that's what these
things kind of look like to me,they were very dark when they
were showing them, you know,leaving a lot to your
imagination, but it kind oflooked like, um, a Wolf head or
a dog's head almost looked likea bat, like face to, to me.
(23:28):
But you know, they were onlyshowing flashes of it in the
episode, Eric and Shelly,weren't really going into a lot
of detail other than height, youknow, what, what it looked like
based on what was it, theepisode, like the things that
you're looking at and thesethings standing up, it'd be
inherited, almost looking likeit.
Maybe partially has a male torsoand this dog like Pitt that's
what it sounds like to me is a,is a dog man.
(23:50):
So I try to look up some thingsabout it.
And there's actually a websitethat's called, it's called dog
man and counters.
Wow.
Who knew?
Yeah.
It's just a place for people tocome and report on their
sightings.
And it gives you a little bit ofinformation about, about dog
men.
And evidently there's like acouple different types.
Like one is a canine type one.
(24:13):
It has like canine style legs.
And you know, it had like ahairy body and there's another
type that evidently, and this isbased on this website.
There's another type, that'slike a big foot type.
And it has like a bear as John,of course I haven't made this up
either.
I said, it's got like a big footbody, but we're like a canine
(24:35):
muzzle.
And like these pointy ears.
Interesting also, and this issomething I want to explore as
well, along with cryptidsightings.
A lot of times there's UFOsightings as well.
So if you think about in thewoods where they saw that pulse,
80 light earlier, um, a few daysearlier, or I don't know if it
was a couple of weeks, but theysaw that and then they have this
(24:57):
siding.
That is so interesting that yousay that because I remember that
Milwaukee paranormal conferencethat we went to the virtual
conference, I don't know, acouple, three months ago, they
talked about that about howsometimes the UFO encrypted
sightings can be simultaneous orthey seem to not be such
separate entities, but sometimesmaybe part of one phenomenon.
Yeah.
I definitely want to read moreabout that.
(25:18):
I've ordered some books about,about a, um, I can't wait to
hear all what you ordered.
So Shelly Martin or Shelly,Martin Rockwell, the things that
she had stated that, or shecited that were abolishment.
So in some of those I've alreadytalked about one, is that the
Wolf flight thing or the beastshe described it wasn't right up
on her husband.
Like he wasn't within four orfive feet.
(25:40):
And when he had gone out to histruck, um, in the episode two,
it shows a point where like,they're going through the house
and they're looking for weaponsand you know, there was banging
and that sort of thing.
And she said that isn't trueeither.
And she also thought this wasreally significant.
She said that they left out thepond on their property and
that's where they would gatherreally?
Yes.
(26:00):
And then also the last thing orwhat I read, or it could be a
lot more, but these are thethings that I read.
She also took issue with wherethey kind of took creative
license and made it look likeshe had a, she was sleeping and
woke up to this thing, crashingthrough the window when it was
really a dream.
That's ridiculous.
I think that really underminestheir credibility, I think, or
(26:22):
suggest like, Hey, this is sooutlandish that we're going to
kind of provide this alternativeexplanation just to cover our
tracks.
It's funny you say that becauseshe said the same thing.
Yeah.
There's a book written by LindaGodfrey.
And I don't know if she justwrites about cryptids or just
about the dog man, but Shellyhad been interviewed by her.
It was featured in a book calledreal Wolfman and she seemed like
(26:45):
she was pleased with however itwas presented in that book.
So I'm going to have to try toget a hold of that book.
That sounds interesting.
And just one more interestingfact or one more fun fact is
that according to the nationalUFO reporting center, who knew
there was one.
Yeah, I didn't know.
They said, and this is as of2019, that main overall in the,
(27:07):
in the nation, they have thefifth highest overall UFO
reporting and cements.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
That's fascinating.
Do you know who I'm justcurious, who has the highest I'm
guessing Texas.
I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
No, not Texas Washington state Montana was
one.
And I can't remember the others.
I just remember Washington statesticking out in my mind.
So Lake Stevens, Washington, youbetter watch out.
And Montana was another, so I'mnot sure what the others were.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Wow.
That's fascinating.
And it's called the UFOreporting site,
Speaker 3 (27:38):
The national UFO reporting
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Center reporting center.
So if you see something, you canactually contact them.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yes.
And the way they describethemselves, it's an organization
in the U S that investigates UFOsightings or alien contacts.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
That sounds really cool.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
According to them, that Maine has reported 940
sightings.
And I don't think that was justfor that year.
I think that's overall.
We should try to interviewsomeone from there.
I would love to interviewsomeone from there.
I was wondering that too.
I'm like, how do you, how do youfind out about some of these
stories, unless you do have yourown, like the dog, men and
(28:13):
counters or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah.
Obviously we, once COVID ends,we need to get out there more.
We need to like put ourselvesinto some precarious positions
and see what happens to us.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Um, so I would love, I would love to interview
someone.
Who's had an experience likethat.
And I, I also wanted to touch ontoo.
I was talking to my mom, gosh, Iwas talking to her Sunday night
because you know, we want to doa, uh, a spooky carnival
episode.
And so I was asking her whereher, her love letters from the
(28:43):
creepy Carney guy.
Oh,
Speaker 1 (28:44):
You finally asked her.
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
And she's like, why?
I said, because I want to usethem for our podcast.
And she's like, no, she knowswe're doing a podcast.
She doesn't even know what apodcast is.
I'm sure.
So nationally syndicated radioshow that, you know, and so, um,
she wanted to know the name ofit.
I'm like, no.
And my brother, my brother wasshaking his head and he looked
(29:09):
like he had a look on his facelike, Oh no, you did not.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I want to listen to that podcast.
Oh God.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I try.
And I tried to find the letters.
Cause I thought if I find them,I could try to talk her into it.
And I looked and I couldn't findthem, but my wife says that she
thinks she knows where they'reat.
So I will keep working on mymom, but please do.
But that leads up to somethingwhen we were talking about this
and she's, you know, while wewanted the, the Carney love
(29:36):
letters and, you know, she askedwhat the podcast was about.
And I told her it was aboutsupernatural paranormal, true
crime type things.
And she, and she just brought upon her own.
She said, well, do you remembermy grandfather?
We called him Papo.
Do you remember that incidentthat Paul had, but the light.
And I'm like, yeah.
And I know I've told you, Ithink I recently told you about
this.
Jen, tell me again though,because I don't, I don't
(29:58):
remember all the details.
So my family, they lived back ina holler.
I'm sure you know what a holleris.
Not a sure do.
So it's basically kind of like alittle Valley between, or
surrounded by mountains, verynarrow.
And so I have my aunt and myuncle, they live within walking
distance and within sight of mygrandparents' home.
And I also have, um, anotheraunt and uncle and a cousin who
(30:22):
live back there or at one pointto lived back there.
My grandfather had told thefamily this story, and this is
before I never heard him tellthe story because I mean, I
don't ever remember him tellingme this cause I was young and it
would have scared me to death,but he didn't of course have a
car.
And he was walking home fromtown one night.
And so he had to walk acrosslike this kind of mountain
(30:43):
range.
And he said that this light wasfollowing him.
It was like he said at first hethought it was a flashlight and
every time he would stop, thelight would stop.
Oh, that's crazy.
And for the way it was describedto me, it sounds like maybe he
had noticed it and would turnaround periodically or turned to
the side to see it.
And so it followed him and whenhe would stop, it would stop.
(31:05):
And it just really struck him ashe just always wondered what
that was.
It didn't sound like I didn'thear anybody say, or my mom say
that he had indicated like hewas overcome with fear or
anything like that.
He just, he just noticed henoticed it and was kind of
weirded out by it.
Like just trying to figure outwhat this was.
And he never knew what it was.
Well, it followed him to thisApple tree and my grandfather
(31:27):
was Bernard found murdered bythe Apple tree.
Hmm.
Well, that's such a story thatgives me
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Chills.
That gives me total chills.
Yeah.
So he was found murdered laterright later.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah.
So when he, when he had thisencounter, he probably, he was
in his very early twenties.
So at that time it probablywould have been an early 1930s
when this happened and he wasfound murdered.
Um, uh, gosh, he was foundmurdered in 1977 and my aunt, my
uncle found him and it
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Was the same tree or it was just an Apple tree or
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Was it, it was the same tree.
That's crazy.
He wasn't like leaning upagainst the Apple tree or laying
against it.
He was buying
Speaker 1 (32:07):
The Apple tree or the Apple tree.
That's so crazy.
You know, at first, when youwere talking about that, it made
me think of, you know, peopletalk about the Willow, the
whisper, the F uh, I think theycall it the Fox fire.
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
The kind of, um, there's a natural explanation
for it, but kind of like a gasor something.
That's um, and it's strange,I've never heard of a, uh,
Willow, the wisp stopping whenyou stop, you know, um, God, it
almost sounds like, um, but thiswas like in the like high it
wasn't.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Okay.
So it was high up, you know,that brings me back to the
Milwaukee paranormal conference.
And I think didn't both go to asession on orbs about how orbs
could be perhaps ghostly, butthey could also be, um, have
something to do with UFO's orthere was maybe cryptids as
well.
And it makes you wonder, like,where's that just energy of his
future that he, you know, he wasbeing pursued by his destiny.
(32:57):
I mean, that's a really, it'sreally, really creepy thing.
Very, I think Erie is exactlythe right word.
Yeah, that's this.
Wow.
That's a story.
And then researching the storyas well.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I just started to think about things.
Um, my cousin's son had seen aghost and they think it was a
ghost of my grandfather,
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Which wow, that's amazing.
So
Speaker 3 (33:17):
The story with that is that my cousin's son, Evan,
he, I believe he was going towork that morning.
He worked at like a gym or theirequivalent of a gym.
They called it the field housewhere the athletes would go and
work out.
And he went outside to get inhis car and he saw a man
wandering around.
It, scared him.
It was an old band and he ran,he ran back inside and I think
(33:37):
he called my cousin.
I'll have to find out the whole,the complete story on this
because I'm just going off myrecollection.
But I think my cousin told himto go back outside or something,
just get in your car type thing.
And Evelyn was just too scaredto go back out there because you
just don't, people just don'tpop up there.
And certainly an old man,
Speaker 1 (33:56):
It sounds like he almost had a feeling that went
along with it.
That was like, this is somethingbeyond what's normal or
something.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah.
And he, and he ran back in, hewas scared.
He was immediately scared.
And he said that he was justkind of wandering around and
then he wasn't there.
When he, when he went back outthe last
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Strange that makes me feel kind of sad.
It makes me sad.
I don't know for me.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I find it kind of reassuring.
You said, well, that's good.
That's good.
And again, that's not real farfrom, that's not real far from
the Apple tree.
It's very close.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So maybe like maybe your grandfather looks after the
family or something, you know,he kind of protects the land and
um, that's, that's sointeresting.
Oh my gosh.
Just the, the thought of himseeing that light above him and
then, you know, how however many40, some years later, um, that's
the side of his death is justreally so phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
It is.
It's like, it just gives me thechills, like I was saying, but
so just talking about like allthese, like the phenomenon that,
and the light following mygrandfather, him being murdered
there being seen there.
I mean, it's like, what are theodds of all those things, right.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
It's very strange.
It's very, very strange.
And you know, you're just onefamily.
I think if you talk to familiesaround, you know, I think
probably every family has a taleof some sort, you know, even if
we don't know it, maybe it wasback a generation or two
generations or maybe sevengenerations, but people I think
are constantly havingexperiences that they can't
(35:22):
really explain, not constantly,but I just think there are far
more common than we reallythink.
But sometimes I get pushed underthe rug, like, you know, their
shame and talking about them or,you know, you don't want people
to think you're crazy, but it's,it seems like it's part of the
human experience to me to havethings that you can't explain.
I think so too.
And I'm gonna, I'll find outabout the ghost story.
(35:43):
Cause I don't want to saysomething that isn't true or
misleading.
I know that he felt like he sawthe ghost of my grandfather and
he was very frightened, but I, Ineed to find out the exact
sequence of events and thecircumstances.
But yeah, I would love to hear,hear more about that.
Well, this is fantastic.
I think this was really, um,really interesting in definitely
creepy.
I think sometimes the creepiestthings are those things that
(36:05):
are, you know, you mentionedbefore that Shelly had a hard
time putting words to what shesaw.
And I think things that arebeyond, I mean they're beyond
human experience.
We don't have the language forit yet.
Right.
And then, um, it makes usgrapple with what is, or what
could be, and that's really,it's terrifying, but it's also
what makes life worth living.
(36:25):
Thank you to everyone wholistens.
The best thing you can do tohelp us grow is to like review
on subscribe on iTunes and evenbetter yet tweet about us or
post about us on Facebook.
Tell your friends if you thinkthey would like us and have a
good night.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
[inaudible].
We like to think that we can protect ourselves and
those we love from danger, butwhat happens when we can't?
So tonight we'll tell the storyof one family left defenseless
against other worldly predators.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Jen, how are you?
My friend, Hey, I'm doing well,my friend,
Speaker 1 (00:19):
And it's good to be on tonight.
It is.
I've been looking forward to itall week.
It's a great way to unwind.
Definitely it's even better thanthe weekends.
I think.
Absolutely.
I mean, I look forward to theentire thing, but I also look
forward to the cocktail that weshare because it's kind of like
nice together time and we get tolearn new information and share
a drink and connect with all ofour listeners.
(00:41):
And that's, that's exciting.
And speaking of listeners,that's a good segue, Jen.
We didn't even plan that.
I don't really plan anything.
It's really much organic as youcan tell kind of like our lives.
Yes.
Yeah.
Speaking of our listeners, we dowant to give a shout out to some
people who have been actuallypretty faithful listeners.
We, you don't know how much weappreciate you because I mean,
(01:03):
we would do this anyway becausewe're having a good time and
we're, we're learning a lot andenjoying ourselves, but it means
so much to us that some of youare tuning in to listen and that
you're tuning in more than acouple of times.
So first off I want to thank ourlisteners in Clichy on the yield
of false, which I believe isnear par, uh, uh, new, uh,
(01:25):
equity.
I probably really grappled that,but forgive me.
I did my best.
We also want to thank ourfriends in Lake Stevens,
Washington in Stanford,Connecticut.
I wonder if Stanford is mybrother-in-law.
He might be Morgantown,Morgantown, West Virginia, which
is maybe our friend Colby, um,who we are hoping Colby.
(01:46):
Yay.
Colby.
We're hoping to have you on theshow in the new year.
And I just have to say aboutColby too.
I follow him on Facebook and heis like amazing at thrifting and
finding like the coolest stuff.
Um, when he's thrifting, whichis an interest of mine as well.
So I'm like always amazed.
Um, we also have somebody fromFrazier's bottom, West Virginia,
which is not too far fromHuntington where I grew up.
So I'm really curious who thatis.
(02:07):
I love my love, my fellow WestVirginians.
Um, we have rural Ridge,Pennsylvania, and we have, uh,
South salt Lake, Utah, just alittle, um, thing.
My, my husband was a Vista andhe was in salt Lake for, I think
about a year when he was like, Idon't know, 22 or 23.
Apparently he smoked a lot ofpot there.
So it was like the one time inhis life.
(02:30):
And I would like to give a shoutout to some of our other
listeners.
Um, we have a listener fromSanger, Texas, Chesapeake,
Virginia, Highland Springs,Virginia Tuckahoe, Virginia,
Washington, Virginia area Lakeshore, Maryland, Knoxville,
Tennessee, and Tacoma,Washington.
Thank you.
That is amazing.
It's exciting to think aboutpeople listening all over.
I love it.
(02:50):
So welcome.
We're so glad you're with us onthis crazy journey.
So what are you having to drinktonight?
My friend, well, I feel likethat's a really, I feel like
that's a really importantquestion tonight because I've
already had one.
I've had one of what I'mdrinking already.
I don't usually have more thanone drink during the week nights
and I don't drink every night.
I just don't want people tothink that you kind of do.
I do not, but that is neitherhere nor there.
(03:12):
What is here is the fact that Ihave this lovely.
I have this lovely drink infront of me.
And it is a cosmopolitan, whichI have never made, but it's one
of my favorite drinks to order.
It's kind of a girly drink, butI love it.
Can you hold it up so I can seeit?
Yeah.
And he's in a new service now,so we can see each other.
So that means I have to putmakeup on because I don't wanna,
I don't wanna look like a, shedoesn't want her to get fast
(03:34):
lunch.
I know.
I don't want to look like aSasquatch.
It's not even so much that Idon't want you to see me.
I don't want to see myself.
I think it's more about that.
It's like, am I really thatugly?
I think everybody feels that wayabout themselves online.
Can you see it?
I can see it.
So it should be Pinker.
But, um, so I'll tell you what'sin it.
It's vodka and it is Quantrowhich I have to tell you that
(03:57):
stuff ain't cheap.
Cause I went to the liquor storeto get some, but boy it smells
so delightful and it has freshsqueezed lime juice and then
cranberry juice.
But I used a pink, cranberryjuice and mine is like super
light.
So it's like a very pale palepink.
So yeah, it's delicious.
It's really good.
And as kind of boozy, can yousee what I'm holding up here?
I'm gonna, I need to minimize mynotes.
(04:19):
Let me just go back to here.
Yeah.
Oh, it's in your fancy, it's inyour fancy hurricane glass.
What is that?
I put most drinks in myhurricane glass because I can
double up anything else I wouldhave to.
That's a good idea to makeanother drink.
So I'm having to do over, doover.
Yeah.
I'm having to do over of my, myThai disaster.
Gosh, let me hold that thing upagain.
(04:40):
I need to see it.
Okay.
It looks good.
And that's what a, my tie shouldlook like.
Yes.
And it's not separating either.
So it's absolutely delicious andit has run two different types
of rum, clear rum, coconut rum,grenadine syrup, pineapple
juice, orange juice and ice.
And it's amazing.
I love a good Mai Tai.
(05:01):
I usually get a Mai Tai at theThai restaurant near here.
They have, they have really goodones.
I've never made one.
It just seems so ambitious tomake one.
I'm almost halfway through it.
I forgot to eat dinner tonight.
I'm just gonna have somecrackers Lord Jen.
So I'll do my best to stay ontask tonight.
So tonight, tonight, I'm goingto talk about, I don't even know
(05:22):
if I told you what I was goingto talk about tonight.
I don't think you did tell meyou told me like something, but
Jen, I forgot.
I'm sorry.
I'm just going to be honest.
Fine.
It's fine.
So I've been watching, I've beenwatching that series, paranormal
witness, you know, some of themare really well done.
So I've watched several of thoseand just looking at the ones
(05:43):
that kinda, I thought wouldstand out to me and I'm wanting
to cover one because it's trulyone of the creepiest stories
that I've heard involving.
Cryptids hilarious, scary, otherthan Bigfoot and bigfoots, just
really a of mine.
It's
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Not really that I'm scared that Bigfoot is going to
come and get me.
Or if I run into a big foot inthe wild, I don't know.
I mean maybe if that happens,I'd feel differently when I
think of cryptids I think of bigfoot that doesn't really scare
me that much, but this does, andjust cryptids in general, don't
scare me.
But when I came across the showand I watched it, it really,
(06:18):
really creeped me out.
You can watch it on paranormalwitness.
It's the third season and it'sepisode nine.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay.
I'm going to write that down soI can catch it tonight.
Episode third season, episodenine.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Cool.
I'm going to follow thestoryline that's in this
episode, but I'm also going toadd some things to it as well,
because there were someembellishments that the wife, it
involves a couple.
The name of the couple is Ericand Shelly Martin.
And when doing more research, Icame across that Shelly Martin
was not completely happy withhow that episode was filmed or
(06:53):
really did.
Yeah.
So she wasn't happy with some ofthe embellishments, but when I
go back and I look at it, um,and I'll tell you later, I'll
tell you later what she's, whatshe was unhappy with with, uh,
with the episode.
And she never identified thisthere, these creatures as being
wolves necessarily, or I didn'thear that in the episode.
(07:15):
So let me start my friend.
Let me regale you with thestory.
Cool.
I'm looking forward to beingreally scared.
Okay.
Maybe you won't find itfrightening, but I find it
frightening.
But then again, as we'vediscussed, the, the more and
more we go along with theseepisodes, we're finding a lot of
things that we're afraid of.
This story takes place inPalmyra, Maine in 2006 and
(07:35):
Palmyra is in central Maine.
And it's a very small town ofless than, or at least at this
time, it was, I believe it wasless than 2000 people or right
around the 2000 Mark.
And how it starts is, is thatEric and Shelly Martin and their
teenage daughter, Chelsea, theymoved to pal Myra.
And it was a difficult move fromthem.
And the reason why they moved isbecause Eric, he had worked in a
(07:58):
paper mill for over 20 years.
He worked with machinery and heended up blowing out a bunch of
disks in his back.
And so he was permanentlydisabled.
Oh wow.
And so Shelly wanted to get ajob or, or had gotten a job that
would be closer to home so shecould take care of him.
So they find this farm, or shefinds this farm at a local
paper.
It was a beautiful farm, lots ofroom fields.
(08:21):
It was secluded entirelysurrounded by these really dense
woods.
And I didn't come across as faras like how large the property
was or the important part is itwas just really, really remote.
That sounds kind of
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Like heaven, but also like it could be really scary.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Anything that's out in the middle of the middle of
nowhere.
I mean, I think it's beautiful,but at the same time, I think it
is frightening.
Especially if, you know, ifyou're just there with your
immediate family.
Right.
I would be very, very scaredwhen,
Speaker 1 (08:49):
When my mother-in-law was planning to live with us, we
went to look for, cause wethought we would need a bigger
house.
So we went to look for one, wewent way
Speaker 3 (08:56):
South of the County and found this beautiful house
to run, but it was surrounded bytrees and forest.
I was all for it.
And she was like, there are toomany trees, so we ended up not
renting it.
But yeah, she definitely, maybeshe helped us Dodge, a bullet or
something.
Did she ever elaborate or no,she was just really freaked out
by the rural nature.
I mean, she was from rural, wellkind of like town Ireland, but,
(09:19):
but yeah, she was, she did not,she did not get a good vibe,
obviously.
So it's important to, to pointout with Eric is that he's an
avid outdoorsman.
He was an avid Hunter.
Shelly though.
She was really uncomfortablewith having guns in the house.
So when they moved there, Erichad his older son who didn't
live there in the sameresidence.
(09:40):
He had his older son come overand they built like the strong
box.
They put all the guns in thereand then they put it in the barn
and they'll lock the barn.
And as I was saying, Eric camefrom a long line of hunters.
He said that he had hunted justabout everything that you could
hunt and in Maine, that waslegal, including Shelly.
(10:02):
Oh my God.
All right.
I'm sorry.
Oh, geez.
Um, I'm past halfway here, Jen.
Okay.
Now this is interesting.
So they make a habit of it todevelop some type of routine and
to do something together.
And I think to keep their mindoff of those circumstances, that
are the circumstances that wereimpacting their lives at that
(10:22):
time.
So they would sit out back onthe porch every evening.
So one night when they're outthere, they're sitting out there
just chit chatting and Shellynotices some lights in the
woods.
They would like pulsate.
So they would come on reallystrong and then they would fade
out and she pointed out to Eric,like, do you see that?
And Eric son came to the houseand he could see it too.
(10:44):
At first he said that he thoughtit was like a flashlight in the
distance, but he made astatement that just kind of
resonated with me.
And he had said, this is a quoteabout the lights.
Um, but it seemed the more wenoticed, the more it started
changing and moving around.
And so they decided, theythought, well, it could be
poachers.
He went out there with his dad,they had their guns and they
(11:05):
were looking around.
Eric was saying that it wasreally, really quiet.
He just, just had this eeriefeeling.
And when you would step on abranch or a twig, it would like
echo and you just couldn't hearanything else.
So they split up and they lookedaround and Eric just felt like
he was being watched.
And he just became really,really uneasy.
(11:25):
And at one point he said that hethought he saw something to the
left of him, but it disappearedreally quickly while they're out
there.
They couldn't find anyindication that it was anyone or
animals had been there eitherthe next day or within a few
days.
It seemed, they didn't give aspecific timeline.
Chelsea went for a walk in thewoods with her, with her
boyfriend, Nate he's now herhusband.
(11:46):
And they were walking the dogsand the dogs got up ahead of
them.
And when they caught up with thedogs, the dogs were barking by
this whole.
When you watch the episode, itlooks like it's some really
large, some type of den thatsome type of animal has dug.
But when you listen to what Natesays, he, he describes it as a
hole that was intentionally dog,either by a person or by an
(12:07):
animal.
Chelsea was uneasy and she justwanted to go home.
So they went home.
I don't blame Chelsea.
Yeah.
I don't blame her either.
On Memorial day, weekend orMemorial weekend, Eric and
Shelley are sitting outside ontheir back porch.
And they said it was unusuallyquiet.
There was like, no sheep, nohorses, no cows, no deer because
of this.
(12:27):
It seems like she, she wascurious.
So she picks up this flashlightor these really like large
flashlights.
It looks like a kind of like afloodlight, a little bit.
One of those, not like yourtypical flashlight or at least
that's how it was portrayed inthis episode.
And she grabs it and she beginslooking in the field and she
didn't see anything.
So she just turned theflashlight off and she sat back
down.
And after she put the lightdown, Eric got this feeling that
(12:49):
he just, he just felt like thisreally, he was overcome with his
feeling that they were indanger.
It's just really, really, reallyoverwhelming, very strong
feelings.
So, okay.
He doesn't tell her that.
So Eric, he grabbed her by theshirt and he was trying to pull
her along.
Like, let's go inside, let's goinside.
And she could tell that he wasafraid.
All of a sudden she could hearthis rustling.
So she takes a flashlight againand she points it in the
(13:12):
direction of the noise.
And then they saw these threeset of eyes looking right back
at them and Jesus.
And they described them asalmost being fluorescent.
And then they hear another soundand they point the flashlight in
that direction.
And they see two more of thesethings.
Eric said that it appeared as ifthey were mad and that they
wanted to come at them.
(13:32):
So they rushed into the houseand they locked the doors and
then they sit down on the floor,you know, just trying to get it.
They don't want them to seethem.
Yeah.
But Shelly, she wants to look atthem again.
So she, she takes a flashlightand she shows it out there
again.
And he's telling her not to dothat.
But she said that she justwanted to get another look at
them because she just wanted tomake sense of what she was
(13:52):
seeing and all she, all theycould see at this point where
the eyes, the way they describedit, they said, clearly it was
not a bear, but it was huge.
And it was really dangerouslooking in the episode they look
Wolf like, and they could standon two legs.
So at some point they look likethey're crouching and look like,
you know, like a Wolf lightthing.
And then they would stand andthey'd have like these kind of
(14:14):
spindly Harry appendages.
It's really frighteningappendages like legs or yeah,
like legs or front legs andokay.
They could either be on allfours or appear to be on all
fours or they could stand on mylegs and arms would be kind of
hanging down.
Yeah.
Um, so they're seeing thisthey're really freaked out by
it.
They don't know what it is, butthey know it's not like any
(14:37):
other form of wildlife thatthey've ever seen.
And he should know because he'sa Hunter and you know, a Hunter
from Maine and the deep woods ofMaine.
So he knows what he's talkingabout.
So their panic and just likeanybody else, they're trying to
figure out, you know, what do wedo?
And Eric felt really helplessbecause, and he describes this
or he States this several timesduring this particular episode
that he just felt so helplessbecause, you know, he viewed as
(15:00):
being a husband and a father.
It was his job to protect hisfamily, but he couldn't do it.
You know, he's injured.
He doesn't have his weapons andhe really just doesn't know what
to do at this point.
He wasn't even sure that theywould be safe in the house if
they didn't have weapons.
So we think, Oh, I was justgoing to ask, what did Kelly do?
So Shelly runs upstairs to checkon Chelsea.
(15:20):
And TLC's probably around 17 atthis point in time and she's
tired and she's a teen and shewakes her and she's like, you
know, I want you to come look atthis, come look at this.
And so Chelsea gets up she'sbleary-eyed and she's like,
whatever, I'm going back to bed.
So while she's checking onChelsea and she tells Eric not
to go outside, he decides thathe's going to go to his truck.
(15:41):
So he's thinking if I can justget to my truck, I can back it
up to the house and I can get myfamily and we can leave.
But it's 25, 30 feet away.
He severely injured.
He's in a lot of pain and it'saffecting his gate and he
decides he's going to do it.
So he makes a break for it.
This reminds me of night of theliving dead.
You know, when they're decidingthat they're going to try to
make a run for it and get in thecar.
(16:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so he goes, and he goes outto the truck and he's fumbling
with his keys and he can seethese things.
They were in a distance and thenall the sensor lights went off
and he saw one of these things.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
And he was afraid it was goingto attack him, but that, it just
kind of disappeared.
It like disappeared.
Like it ran away or justdisappear like it, like it ran
(16:25):
away.
And if you, if you watch theepisode, it makes it look like
this thing is like four feetfrom him.
And that's one of the thingsthat Shelley disputed later, she
was saying that it wasn't thatclose to him, but it takes off.
He goes back in the house andshe's of course off at him
because he went out there whenshe begged him not to go and
(16:45):
they decide they're going tocall nine one one.
So she calls nine one one.
And she was trying to explainwhat was going on.
That there were these thingsthat were trying to, you know,
attack them or get in the house.
And they probably thought shewas crazy.
And they did.
And I think it was an officershe was speaking to.
Cause I have a feeling this townwas so small that you probably
didn't have dispatch is my guess, but I don't know that for
(17:08):
sure.
So she's trying to explain, likethere are these things and
they're trying to get in thehouse or they're going to attack
us and the person on the otherline officer or dispatch or
whatever is saying, well, is it,you know, is it a bear or a dog
or a moose?
And she's like, no, no, no, it'snot any of those things.
And so what the officer told herto do or dispatch told her to do
is just lock all the doors andthe windows and then they just
(17:31):
hung up on her.
And so they, at this point theyfeel like, okay, they're really
on their own.
And I don't know if they didn'tknow anyone in that town.
And I don't know how far the sonlived, their adult son lives.
But I guess that's the only partof the story to me, that kind of
doesn't mesh is that I know thatI would be calling my family, my
(17:51):
friends to get your guns andcoming out there, come out
there.
But I don't know what thecircumstances were.
They never explained that.
And two, I think if you, youknow, if you live in the
country, I've known like peopleseem to be very self-sufficient
and they really don't like toask for help.
That's true.
So maybe that played into it aswell versus you or me.
I mean, it would be, you know,we would call everyone and he
(18:14):
sounds like he was definitely aguy who believed in this
masculine code.
Like I need to protect myfamily.
You know, I don't need to callin all of this help.
I can handle it kind of thing.
Am I right?
Or, yeah, he just, yeah, he wasvery much adhere to that code.
He definitely had that mindsetthat, you know, I'm the man, I'm
the husband, I'm, you know, the,uh, the father and I need to
protect my family, but he wasfeeling really inadequate
(18:36):
because of the circumstances andyou know, his health.
And I would imagine because itwas health and also because he
didn't have anything to protectthem with.
So he decides, I don't knowwhere at this point, I don't
know if she went, I think Shellywent maybe back upstairs to, to
wake Chelsea, to really wake herup this time.
And he decides that he's like, Ihave to have to go and get my
(18:59):
guns or I have to get a gun.
And it's in the barn.
It's a great deal of distanceaway.
And he could see those thingsoff in the distance.
He decides that he's going to goout and try to do this.
He started thinking that when heinitially went out to his truck
and the flood lights came on andthe sensor lights came on,
that's when the, the beast orwhatever it was took off.
(19:19):
So he was thinking if I go outthere, I set the sensors off and
then I try to use that time toget to the barn.
Okay.
Well that makes some sense.
Uh, I don't know.
It didn't seem like a reallygood plan to me, but Hey, so I
mean, if you have to do it, Imean, at least he had, at least
he had somewhat of a plan, sohe's going out there and he's
trying to trip the sensor and itcomes on.
(19:40):
And then he sees these thingsand they're to the left, to the
right of him and the lightsstill on at that point.
So I guess that was keeping themat Bay.
They were kind of on theperiphery, but they were taking
that formation, like wolves door animals would do when they're
going to attack, they're goingto pack in there and attack
someone.
So he manages to get back in thehouse while the light was still
(20:01):
on.
He stumbles inside, he runs intoShelly and then they hear
something and they realize thatthese things are on the porch.
They are not, they are not onthe porch.
Yes, they're on the porch.
So, Oh, they decide at thispoint they just decide, okay,
what are we going to do?
We're just going to go into ourbedroom.
We're all going to get on thebed and we're just gonna wait.
And they, you know, it was areally long night they're
(20:23):
waiting.
And they said that it wasdisconcerting because they could
hear these things outside on theporch.
And they just realize that theonly thing that was keeping them
apart was a wall or a windowbecause there was even a window
in that room was their bedroom,was their bedroom on the bottom
floor where the porch was.
That's a good question.
Because when you look at it, italmost seemed like in the
episode that it was on thebottom floor, but I'm not
(20:45):
certain, I know Chelsea's roomwas upstairs, but
Speaker 1 (20:48):
They had a view on them.
So like from their bedroom, theycould see what was going on out
there.
Cause I think I, it would makeme so think what would be most
terrifying would be maybeupstairs and not be able to see
what's going on.
And then if something comes inthe house
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Cornered, right, you're trapped.
She didn't look out again.
As far as I could tell, shedidn't look out again.
They didn't look out again.
They just were on the bed, justhuddle close together.
And he's trying to reassure herthat, you know, things are going
to be okay, even though hereally wasn't convinced that
that was the case.
And he was holding her hand andsqueezing it.
And he said he could just feelher hand tremble and his well,
(21:21):
and they could hear like, um,you know, they could hear them
outside.
They could hear, hear this lowguttural sound.
So they were terrified.
It's terrifying.
At this point in the episode,they had fallen asleep and then
something comes through thewindow and then Shelley wakes up
and realizes, this is just adream.
Um, and that was something elsethat was embellished in this
episode that she was unhappywith later on.
(21:43):
I don't blame her.
Yeah.
So the next day his son comesover and they go out to look to
see if they could find anytraces of whatever it was out
there on their property.
And they didn't find anything.
The only thing that they foundwere like these huge tracks and
it looked like they werestanding on two legs rather than
four.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
What do they look like?
I mean, were they, did they havetoes?
Were they, did they describe it?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
They didn't really spend a whole lot of time on it.
It just looked like a ginormous,maybe I think maybe like a Wolf
print or something, but don't,I'm not exactly sure.
I don't really recall.
I think that's what it was.
Yeah.
So they say to this day thatthey really, they have no idea
what it was.
I mean, they won't, you know,they didn't have words for it,
but they know what they saw wasunlike anything that they'd ever
(22:29):
seen.
So with that, I'm just, this isconjecture on my part or someone
on my part
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I heard of the dog ban.
I have heard a little, I mean, II've heard of it, but I really
don't know anything about it.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah.
I'd heard of it too.
And I don't know anything aboutit either until recently the dog
man, it's part of Michiganfolklore and it was evidently
the first time it was, it wasseen, was reportedly seen.
It was in 1887 and it wasdescribed as this huge creature,
like seven foot tall, but it wasblue or Amber bride.
And it was had like a caninehead and like a torso of a man.
(23:05):
And so they had like this, youknow, really loud how, and it
was on the, like a human scream.
So that's what, how theydescribed the dog man.
And in the depictions, in theepisode, that's what these
things kind of look like to me,they were very dark when they
were showing them, you know,leaving a lot to your
imagination, but it kind oflooked like, um, a Wolf head or
a dog's head almost looked likea bat, like face to, to me.
(23:28):
But you know, they were onlyshowing flashes of it in the
episode, Eric and Shelly,weren't really going into a lot
of detail other than height, youknow, what, what it looked like
based on what was it, theepisode, like the things that
you're looking at and thesethings standing up, it'd be
inherited, almost looking likeit.
Maybe partially has a male torsoand this dog like Pitt that's
what it sounds like to me is a,is a dog man.
(23:50):
So I try to look up some thingsabout it.
And there's actually a websitethat's called, it's called dog
man and counters.
Wow.
Who knew?
Yeah.
It's just a place for people tocome and report on their
sightings.
And it gives you a little bit ofinformation about, about dog
men.
And evidently there's like acouple different types.
Like one is a canine type one.
(24:13):
It has like canine style legs.
And you know, it had like ahairy body and there's another
type that evidently, and this isbased on this website.
There's another type, that'slike a big foot type.
And it has like a bear as John,of course I haven't made this up
either.
I said, it's got like a big footbody, but we're like a canine
(24:35):
muzzle.
And like these pointy ears.
Interesting also, and this issomething I want to explore as
well, along with cryptidsightings.
A lot of times there's UFOsightings as well.
So if you think about in thewoods where they saw that pulse,
80 light earlier, um, a few daysearlier, or I don't know if it
was a couple of weeks, but theysaw that and then they have this
(24:57):
siding.
That is so interesting that yousay that because I remember that
Milwaukee paranormal conferencethat we went to the virtual
conference, I don't know, acouple, three months ago, they
talked about that about howsometimes the UFO encrypted
sightings can be simultaneous orthey seem to not be such
separate entities, but sometimesmaybe part of one phenomenon.
Yeah.
I definitely want to read moreabout that.
(25:18):
I've ordered some books about,about a, um, I can't wait to
hear all what you ordered.
So Shelly Martin or Shelly,Martin Rockwell, the things that
she had stated that, or shecited that were abolishment.
So in some of those I've alreadytalked about one, is that the
Wolf flight thing or the beastshe described it wasn't right up
on her husband.
Like he wasn't within four orfive feet.
(25:40):
And when he had gone out to histruck, um, in the episode two,
it shows a point where like,they're going through the house
and they're looking for weaponsand you know, there was banging
and that sort of thing.
And she said that isn't trueeither.
And she also thought this wasreally significant.
She said that they left out thepond on their property and
that's where they would gatherreally?
Yes.
(26:00):
And then also the last thing orwhat I read, or it could be a
lot more, but these are thethings that I read.
She also took issue with wherethey kind of took creative
license and made it look likeshe had a, she was sleeping and
woke up to this thing, crashingthrough the window when it was
really a dream.
That's ridiculous.
I think that really underminestheir credibility, I think, or
(26:22):
suggest like, Hey, this is sooutlandish that we're going to
kind of provide this alternativeexplanation just to cover our
tracks.
It's funny you say that becauseshe said the same thing.
Yeah.
There's a book written by LindaGodfrey.
And I don't know if she justwrites about cryptids or just
about the dog man, but Shellyhad been interviewed by her.
It was featured in a book calledreal Wolfman and she seemed like
(26:45):
she was pleased with however itwas presented in that book.
So I'm going to have to try toget a hold of that book.
That sounds interesting.
And just one more interestingfact or one more fun fact is
that according to the nationalUFO reporting center, who knew
there was one.
Yeah, I didn't know.
They said, and this is as of2019, that main overall in the,
(27:07):
in the nation, they have thefifth highest overall UFO
reporting and cements.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
That's fascinating.
Do you know who I'm justcurious, who has the highest I'm
guessing Texas.
I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
No, not Texas Washington state Montana was
one.
And I can't remember the others.
I just remember Washington statesticking out in my mind.
So Lake Stevens, Washington, youbetter watch out.
And Montana was another, so I'mnot sure what the others were.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Wow.
That's fascinating.
And it's called the UFOreporting site,
Speaker 3 (27:38):
The national UFO reporting
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Center reporting center.
So if you see something, you canactually contact them.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yes.
And the way they describethemselves, it's an organization
in the U S that investigates UFOsightings or alien contacts.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
That sounds really cool.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
According to them, that Maine has reported 940
sightings.
And I don't think that was justfor that year.
I think that's overall.
We should try to interviewsomeone from there.
I would love to interviewsomeone from there.
I was wondering that too.
I'm like, how do you, how do youfind out about some of these
stories, unless you do have yourown, like the dog, men and
(28:13):
counters or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah.
Obviously we, once COVID ends,we need to get out there more.
We need to like put ourselvesinto some precarious positions
and see what happens to us.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Um, so I would love, I would love to interview
someone.
Who's had an experience likethat.
And I, I also wanted to touch ontoo.
I was talking to my mom, gosh, Iwas talking to her Sunday night
because you know, we want to doa, uh, a spooky carnival
episode.
And so I was asking her whereher, her love letters from the
(28:43):
creepy Carney guy.
Oh,
Speaker 1 (28:44):
You finally asked her.
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
And she's like, why?
I said, because I want to usethem for our podcast.
And she's like, no, she knowswe're doing a podcast.
She doesn't even know what apodcast is.
I'm sure.
So nationally syndicated radioshow that, you know, and so, um,
she wanted to know the name ofit.
I'm like, no.
And my brother, my brother wasshaking his head and he looked
(29:09):
like he had a look on his facelike, Oh no, you did not.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I want to listen to that podcast.
Oh God.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I try.
And I tried to find the letters.
Cause I thought if I find them,I could try to talk her into it.
And I looked and I couldn't findthem, but my wife says that she
thinks she knows where they'reat.
So I will keep working on mymom, but please do.
But that leads up to somethingwhen we were talking about this
and she's, you know, while wewanted the, the Carney love
(29:36):
letters and, you know, she askedwhat the podcast was about.
And I told her it was aboutsupernatural paranormal, true
crime type things.
And she, and she just brought upon her own.
She said, well, do you remembermy grandfather?
We called him Papo.
Do you remember that incidentthat Paul had, but the light.
And I'm like, yeah.
And I know I've told you, Ithink I recently told you about
this.
Jen, tell me again though,because I don't, I don't
(29:58):
remember all the details.
So my family, they lived back ina holler.
I'm sure you know what a holleris.
Not a sure do.
So it's basically kind of like alittle Valley between, or
surrounded by mountains, verynarrow.
And so I have my aunt and myuncle, they live within walking
distance and within sight of mygrandparents' home.
And I also have, um, anotheraunt and uncle and a cousin who
(30:22):
live back there or at one pointto lived back there.
My grandfather had told thefamily this story, and this is
before I never heard him tellthe story because I mean, I
don't ever remember him tellingme this cause I was young and it
would have scared me to death,but he didn't of course have a
car.
And he was walking home fromtown one night.
And so he had to walk acrosslike this kind of mountain
(30:43):
range.
And he said that this light wasfollowing him.
It was like he said at first hethought it was a flashlight and
every time he would stop, thelight would stop.
Oh, that's crazy.
And for the way it was describedto me, it sounds like maybe he
had noticed it and would turnaround periodically or turned to
the side to see it.
And so it followed him and whenhe would stop, it would stop.
(31:05):
And it just really struck him ashe just always wondered what
that was.
It didn't sound like I didn'thear anybody say, or my mom say
that he had indicated like hewas overcome with fear or
anything like that.
He just, he just noticed henoticed it and was kind of
weirded out by it.
Like just trying to figure outwhat this was.
And he never knew what it was.
Well, it followed him to thisApple tree and my grandfather
(31:27):
was Bernard found murdered bythe Apple tree.
Hmm.
Well, that's such a story thatgives me
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Chills.
That gives me total chills.
Yeah.
So he was found murdered laterright later.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah.
So when he, when he had thisencounter, he probably, he was
in his very early twenties.
So at that time it probablywould have been an early 1930s
when this happened and he wasfound murdered.
Um, uh, gosh, he was foundmurdered in 1977 and my aunt, my
uncle found him and it
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Was the same tree or it was just an Apple tree or
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Was it, it was the same tree.
That's crazy.
He wasn't like leaning upagainst the Apple tree or laying
against it.
He was buying
Speaker 1 (32:07):
The Apple tree or the Apple tree.
That's so crazy.
You know, at first, when youwere talking about that, it made
me think of, you know, peopletalk about the Willow, the
whisper, the F uh, I think theycall it the Fox fire.
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
The kind of, um, there's a natural explanation
for it, but kind of like a gasor something.
That's um, and it's strange,I've never heard of a, uh,
Willow, the wisp stopping whenyou stop, you know, um, God, it
almost sounds like, um, but thiswas like in the like high it
wasn't.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Okay.
So it was high up, you know,that brings me back to the
Milwaukee paranormal conference.
And I think didn't both go to asession on orbs about how orbs
could be perhaps ghostly, butthey could also be, um, have
something to do with UFO's orthere was maybe cryptids as
well.
And it makes you wonder, like,where's that just energy of his
future that he, you know, he wasbeing pursued by his destiny.
(32:57):
I mean, that's a really, it'sreally, really creepy thing.
Very, I think Erie is exactlythe right word.
Yeah, that's this.
Wow.
That's a story.
And then researching the storyas well.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I just started to think about things.
Um, my cousin's son had seen aghost and they think it was a
ghost of my grandfather,
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Which wow, that's amazing.
So
Speaker 3 (33:17):
The story with that is that my cousin's son, Evan,
he, I believe he was going towork that morning.
He worked at like a gym or theirequivalent of a gym.
They called it the field housewhere the athletes would go and
work out.
And he went outside to get inhis car and he saw a man
wandering around.
It, scared him.
It was an old band and he ran,he ran back inside and I think
(33:37):
he called my cousin.
I'll have to find out the whole,the complete story on this
because I'm just going off myrecollection.
But I think my cousin told himto go back outside or something,
just get in your car type thing.
And Evelyn was just too scaredto go back out there because you
just don't, people just don'tpop up there.
And certainly an old man,
Speaker 1 (33:56):
It sounds like he almost had a feeling that went
along with it.
That was like, this is somethingbeyond what's normal or
something.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah.
And he, and he ran back in, hewas scared.
He was immediately scared.
And he said that he was justkind of wandering around and
then he wasn't there.
When he, when he went back outthe last
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Strange that makes me feel kind of sad.
It makes me sad.
I don't know for me.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I find it kind of reassuring.
You said, well, that's good.
That's good.
And again, that's not real farfrom, that's not real far from
the Apple tree.
It's very close.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So maybe like maybe your grandfather looks after the
family or something, you know,he kind of protects the land and
um, that's, that's sointeresting.
Oh my gosh.
Just the, the thought of himseeing that light above him and
then, you know, how however many40, some years later, um, that's
the side of his death is justreally so phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
It is.
It's like, it just gives me thechills, like I was saying, but
so just talking about like allthese, like the phenomenon that,
and the light following mygrandfather, him being murdered
there being seen there.
I mean, it's like, what are theodds of all those things, right.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
It's very strange.
It's very, very strange.
And you know, you're just onefamily.
I think if you talk to familiesaround, you know, I think
probably every family has a taleof some sort, you know, even if
we don't know it, maybe it wasback a generation or two
generations or maybe sevengenerations, but people I think
are constantly havingexperiences that they can't
(35:22):
really explain, not constantly,but I just think there are far
more common than we reallythink.
But sometimes I get pushed underthe rug, like, you know, their
shame and talking about them or,you know, you don't want people
to think you're crazy, but it's,it seems like it's part of the
human experience to me to havethings that you can't explain.
I think so too.
And I'm gonna, I'll find outabout the ghost story.
(35:43):
Cause I don't want to saysomething that isn't true or
misleading.
I know that he felt like he sawthe ghost of my grandfather and
he was very frightened, but I, Ineed to find out the exact
sequence of events and thecircumstances.
But yeah, I would love to hear,hear more about that.
Well, this is fantastic.
I think this was really, um,really interesting in definitely
creepy.
I think sometimes the creepiestthings are those things that
(36:05):
are, you know, you mentionedbefore that Shelly had a hard
time putting words to what shesaw.
And I think things that arebeyond, I mean they're beyond
human experience.
We don't have the language forit yet.
Right.
And then, um, it makes usgrapple with what is, or what
could be, and that's really,it's terrifying, but it's also
what makes life worth living.
(36:25):
Thank you to everyone wholistens.
The best thing you can do tohelp us grow is to like review
on subscribe on iTunes and evenbetter yet tweet about us or
post about us on Facebook.
Tell your friends if you thinkthey would like us and have a
good night.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
[inaudible].
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