Is Reading Smut Cheating? The Conversation No One Wants To Have [Ep 103]

Two imperfect people, one spicy topic. We revisit erotica culture, BookTok “spice,” and why the fantasy of extreme dominance can quietly rewire desire, derail intimacy, and normalize what shouldn’t be normal. We also read a listener email from a husband navigating his wife’s romance-novel habit and share concrete steps for couples who want passion without porn—or “book porn.”

What you’ll learn

• How “spice” conditions arousal (just like porn) and what that does to real intimacy

• The healthy female desire for strength and leadership vs degradation and harm

• Why men and women experience dominance differently—and how to keep it healthy

• Resetting your libido: a simple desensitization plan that actually works

• Boundaries and scripts to talk about this without blowing up your relationship

• How to replace fantasy with presence and real connection

Chapters

00:00 Intro: the root desire and “strong dominant man”

02:05 Why we’re revisiting smut novels now

06:10 When fantasy crosses into harmful conditioning

10:45 “Female porn”? How books get normalized vs porn shamed

15:20 The dominance line: strength without degradation

20:05 Listener email: when the books replace the bedroom

27:30 Scripts and boundaries that work (for both partners)

33:15 How to resensitize your desire and reconnect

39:00 What to do if your partner won’t stop

43:10 Takeaways for couples

Resources mentioned (no links)

• The Queen’s Code (Alison Armstrong)

• The Empowered Wife / The Surrendered Wife (Laura Doyle)

• Video commentary on the “female gooner” trend

Send your question

Email: [e-mail]

Site: BetterThanPerfectPod.com

Support the show

If this helped, tap Like, drop your takeaway in the comments, and share with a friend who’s “just reading for the plot.”

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The root desire of most women isa strong dominant man 'cause
that is what the core is, that all these smut novels, books as
well too, all of these characters that these men are,
are these strong dominant men. And when you feel like you have
to feel that strong dominance toan extreme where they have to

(00:23):
literally hurt you in order for you to feel that contrast,
that's a problem beyond the person.
We discovered through our flaws we complete each other better
than perfect. We stay through every fault we
find no way. All right, welcome back to the

(00:46):
Better Than Perfect podcast, where every week we share with
you how 2 imperfect people helping each other grow equals 1
better than perfect relationship.
That's right. And we've got an exciting topic,
a Part 2, kind of, you know, revisited, I guess we, we would
call it the the. Novel.
Yes, There you go. Just say it.

(01:06):
Just smut. Novel.
Just smut. We're talking about this because
I think it's become kind of a popular topic lately, right?
Like there is. Yeah, everybody.
Hated us when we first talked about it, but now other people
are kind of talking about what we talked about in the same way
so we thought we would circle back.

(01:27):
Yeah, because it's sort of reached AI guess a new height of
depravity that brought it to more people's attention now I
think that. We also have another e-mail that
you should probably read that wegot a while back on this as well
too. Yeah, we'll read.
That in this episode. We'll add that in there.
Yeah, that's a good. Because you know it, the e-mail

(01:47):
is from a man as well, too. So it's kind of like the man's
perspective on it, which we didn't have, I think,
necessarily last time. And it's a complicated thing
because it's so accepted in society really, that it makes it
tricky because people will defend it.

(02:10):
Right. It's promoted.
It's more than. Except and then even the guys
will kind of defend it and be fine with it until it becomes a
problem. So yeah, I mean, there's a lot.
We kind of talked about this in the car the other day that we
probably shouldn't have because now we're like, what?
Where? Are all the points we had.

(02:33):
But I think at one point you were talking about, when we
discussed it, that you thought the books were worse than corn.
I'm going to say corn. Yeah, OK, we'll stick.
I'm going to say corn. OK, fine.
I'll say corn. That the books were worse than
corn and then I, you know, was like, well, corn is like this,

(02:56):
this and this. And that is true.
Like, I do think corn in a way is more damaging because it is
more human, not like it involvesactual humans and like, kinks
and things like that that can goto the extreme and then people
try to act them out on real people.
But I do think the books are worse in the sense that they are

(03:20):
publicized and promoted and it'sfine.
And it's basically written corn.Yeah.
For women that they're proud to talk about reading 100 of them
in a year. Whereas like if a man came on
here and was like, I watched 100pornos this year, where's my,

(03:43):
where's my award? You mean cornos would be?
Like, Oh yeah, cornos. Then we would be like, huh?
Like only 100? Well, I mean.
No. But the other issue is that even
I feel like if people became aware of like what the books

(04:06):
really are and like had to accept that, that it would still
be similar to corn in the sense that now people would just do it
behind closed doors sort of thing.
Which which was what I think it was back in the day, the
Harlequin romance novels or whatever.

(04:28):
And then you have the Kindle where you can just read it
anywhere. And then you have TikTok.
And then now it's being promotedas we've kind of gotten so far
down that extreme. And, and I think like, I guess
what we we watch a YouTube videowhere what was her name shoe on

(04:49):
head or something like that, I think.
It's I don't know, I think it's to link it in the description.
But she was talking about this. She called it the the female
gooner epidemic and. Which I didn't even know what a
gooner was. If yeah, we'll save the.
That's something to Google for for the viewer.
Or Urban Dictionary. Exactly.
But but, but yeah, so, so basically, I mean, she was

(05:12):
talking about and, and this is what really I think got people's
attention was one of the best selling books on Amazon was
called What's a Minotaur Milk Maid or something like that.
Yeah, and like that. And without getting too graphic
into the details of the book, the book is essentially about
some young girl who has. She's down on her luck.

(05:35):
She needs to make some money, and she can only make money by
milking minotaurs. Yeah, on this phone.
But not how you think she will. However you think like all the
ways like you. Think yeah, why is how you think
she Yeah. Yeah, all the ways and yeah.
And so it's like pretty extreme and but it's got so many reviews

(05:57):
on Amazon. It's one of the best selling
books. All these women are promoting
says, oh, it's such a great book.
And it's like, OK, this is wherewe have to draw the line and be
like, like, this is not, it's not OK.
It's not. It's just like, you know, you're
talking bestiality, like it's the extreme levels of perversion
at this point, but it's just being accepted as just OK,

(06:19):
normal, even promoted. And and that's a problem, right?
And, and so I think, and we talked about the the last
episode that we talked about this, but like, why is this such
a problem, right? There's a lot of reasons why
they that a lot of people don't really consider.
You know what one of the the biggest reasons why I think that
it's a problem is because a lot of these these books, they're

(06:42):
promoting things like bestiality, but also like,
because it is bestiality like let's.
Not promoting it. I think they're like normalizing
this sort of fantasy of bestiality.
Like I don't think they're promoting it because it's never
like an actual just animal. It's like an animal, man.

(07:05):
I'm not, I'm not justifying it, but I'm saying I, I wouldn't say
it's promoting it because like if it was just a woman and a
straight up cow, then yes. But like, they're trying to like
morph a man into this other thing that's like.
But the description of the of the cow face was like a cow
face. So yeah, but it's kind of.

(07:27):
But then I think it had a human body, didn't it?
Like as a minotaur. Somewhat it had it had hooves.
So it's, I mean, yes, I get whatyou're saying, but also it's a
blurry line that's been getting more blurry.
You know what I'm saying? It's it's as as close to
bestiality. It is bestiality.
I'm not like it is, it is what it is.

(07:47):
That is bestiality. I mean, it is, right?
It's like pretty crazy. I will say, though, the only
thing is that I feel like women are less likely to act on those
sort of things, but I agree thatit is still harmful to them,
whether they know it or not, that their brain is getting off

(08:07):
to that, you know what I mean? Like that's the most harmful
thing because I don't think women are going to go around
banging cows. No, no, but but what they will
do and what it does prime the the sexual nature for is the
other topics, which are things like degrading the, you know,
abuse, slavery, right? All kinds of stuff like torture.

(08:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grapes, right, yeah, yeah, like
all of these things that these are not healthy ways to train
your psychology, right. And and so and one of the things
that I think is is super important to understand about
human sexuality. And we talked about this a
little bit on the last episode, but since then we have some
neuro neuroscientists are that that have weighed in on it as

(08:58):
well. So it's not just us making up
stuff, but is that your, your, your, your sexual response is
trained on what you orgasm to. And so if you are reading
material about space aliens withtechnical Ding dongs or whatever
and mentors and, and people being abused and, and, and hurt

(09:20):
physically in the, in these acts, and that's what you're
getting off to. You're rewiring your sexual
response system to, to, to respond to that and not to
normal stimulus, right? Just like.
You're training your brain right, Just like a bad way.
Exactly like the the whole corn issue is that men are rewiring

(09:43):
their brain to like this extremestimulus, right of these
gigantic proportions and extremetype of things, which is like a
hyper sexualized like this is this doesn't exist in the
natural world, right in in that sense, right.
And so it's the same exact thing.
And so there's a lot of repercussions to that.
And, and I think also if you're thinking that this just is just

(10:07):
something that you just just is a sexual component, that your
psychology can be just containedwithin your sexuality, that
you're just perverted when it comes to sexuality, but it
doesn't leak into the rest of your life, that's just seems
insane. Yeah, there there's no way that
you're like, oh, I, I get off topeople being tortured or
whatever and like extreme abuse and, you know, slavery, even

(10:30):
like situations where people are, you know, being abused and
and defiled that I'm just a normal, it doesn't affect me in
my normal human life. Like it doesn't make any sense
at all. They're compartmentalizing, but
The thing is like, I don't want to shame people for these things
because that doesn't do anything.

(10:50):
But people need to realize that.They need to be honest and
realize it has gotten this far and it has gotten this bad.
Not shamefully, but they need torealize and they need to
resensitize themselves to the things that they actually have
in their life, their actual husband or you know, like actual

(11:12):
sexual encounters that they're going to have.
And they can do that. You're not too far gone if
you've gone, you know, down the deep end.
But you have to cut it off and stop going down that path and
resensitize yourself to the things that you like actually

(11:34):
have in life. And you will want those things,
and you won't be turned on by these extreme things that you've
gotten yourself, you know, suck down that wormhole.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
'Cause I don't want people to feel like they're too far gone.
Cause a lot of people, honestly,at this point, a lot of people

(11:54):
read smut novels and a lot of people are at the too far gone
level we're talking about. But you're not too far gone.
You just have to realize that you're reading 100 smut novels
in like 12 months and you are feeding an addiction like this
is an addiction. And again, your your orgasm or

(12:18):
your sexual pleasure or whateveryou're getting from reading
those books is fueling this addiction.
Exactly. It's you're putting all of that
towards a book rather than your husband or your actual sex life
or like trying something new with your partner that is
consensual like that you guys are both into or things like

(12:39):
that. Instead of putting that energy
where you should to be putting it, which are those places
you're reading hundreds of booksthat are are essentially corn.
Yeah, and, and it's cheating. It's cheating, it's emotionally
cheating, it's sexually cheating.

(13:00):
And just like, I mean, because here, here's my justification.
If you got a guy that's watchingcorn all the time, yeah.
Do you feel like he's cheating in some way?
I mean, not to the like, but in some way is that not, is not, is
that not some level of like unfaithfulness?
I guess that's my biggest thing,is the hypocriticalness of it is

(13:21):
that women have outright said that they will shame men for the
extreme corn that they watch. And some of it is very, very
bad, which they should go to jail if they're reading or
watching stuff that bad. But women are not allowing
themselves to be viewed for the reality of what they're doing

(13:42):
right. Because they're saying, oh,
it's. It's just a book, but it's like
you're if you're doing actions though to these words, then it's
the same as him doing the actions to the videos and books
are the equivalent 2 videos for men.

(14:03):
Women like words, they like the fantasy, they like thinking in
their mind of what The thing is,right.
Men need the visual aspects, andI'm not saying that women don't
want visual or men don't want words.
Like, it's just the primary, right?
It's the primary. Right.
And so for women to be hypocritical about what they're

(14:23):
reading when they judge men veryharshly for what they're
watching, right. Yeah, I have a problem with
that. And, and it has to be, it's, you
have to face it, it is an addiction because when you're
reading hundreds of books in a year.
Of just smut novels. Yeah, then that's an addiction

(14:44):
when that's all you're doing, when you can't put it down, when
that's your hobby is, you know, that's not that's like if a guy
was like, Oh yeah, my hobby is Ijerk off.
That's what my hobby is like, really.
You're a real interesting dude. OK, that's wow.
But it's like, hey, on TikTok, it's like, look, this is what my

(15:05):
hobby is, right? It's like, you know, I don't
like, you know, but but but the problem is because it's become
so normalized. And then also I think because
men don't realize what a problemthis is because they think
they're getting a good deal out of this.
Because I know my wife likes to have sex a lot more.
She's like, that's, I love thesebooks and it's like.
She's pretending you're a minotaur that she's milking.

(15:26):
That's why she wants to have sexwith you, Sir.
Right. So you're, so it's actually
you're just being used as an object, right?
Women sometimes complain about being objectified, right?
But you're just literally being used as an object.
You're just being used as an object to get out her sexual
frustration that has been created by the fantasy that she

(15:50):
read that cannot be fulfilled inlife.
So you're a substitute, a mediocre substitute for what?
She really wants that. Now, how does it taste?
You see what I'm saying? Because that's the actual truth
of it. So it's like, yeah, you can
accept that, right? And you can be like, oh, well,
at least I'm getting mine out ofit.
But you know, there's a trade off to this, right?

(16:11):
And and also, if someone is willing to emotionally cheat on
you or fantasy cheat on you, because that's what these things
are, then how far is that from physically happening, right?
I'm not saying that it guarantees it, but you're
walking down that path because just like a junkie needs to get

(16:33):
a better and better high, where where does it?
You know, you can only write so much perverted shit in a book.
At some point you're trying to act that out in physical
reality. Which actually there was some
convention, you know, romance novel convention and they, these
women were groping all these guythat like groping this guy and
yeah, like harassing him and grabbing his Dick and all kinds

(16:56):
of stuff that was like, you know, some pretty extremes.
I mean, there's a ton of women that were doing this.
So it wasn't just like one womanthat was a crazy woman.
It's like when you when you feedinto anything to that degree,
you know, you keep on going downto levels of depravity and
especially when you normalize itand then you don't make it to be

(17:16):
something that is shame. I'm not saying that you should
shame the people, but it's a shameful thing, you know, it's,
it's not, it's not. Something we should be
normalizing, just like we're notnormalizing corn, right?
We're not. We shouldn't be normalizing
erotica written corn basically right, Because even the girl in
the video we watched was like, you guys can't really say that

(17:39):
you read the book for the story.That's like saying you watch
corn for the plot. Like that's not how it is.
And a lot of the reviews talk specifically about the different

(18:00):
shaped. Ding dongs.
Yeah. And I'm like, how do you even
get to a point where the shape of a, a penis is not enough for
you, like you want it to be? And what kind of shape are we
talking about here? And like, like, why is that

(18:21):
where we're going with this? But I I saw somewhere else that
women like are more likely to cheat when they don't have like
the spontaneity or like mystery of the sexual encounter.
Sure. Yeah.
And so that made me think about them wanting.

(18:45):
The the novelty of novelty of like the.
Of the penis looking different, but I'm like, how far have you
gone down this spiral if you're now searching for penises that
are not penis shape and do like go go gadget penis like they do
these things that a normal peniswill never be able to do not

(19:07):
even a a sex toy will probably do the things that they're
talking. I don't know what shape they're
looking for because I've never read any of these, but it just
made me think of like that is literally all they wrote in some
of the reviews is like why they were looking for a book that
that's what they're going after.Because there are a lot of ones

(19:27):
now that are animals or aliens or, I don't know, like some
other things that you just wouldn't even think.
Yeah, I mean, at least when it was 50 Shades of Grey, right?
Like and I read that. Book that's.
A little bit fairly tame even. It wasn't.
I read that book. It's like, OK, so he was like
this dominant billionaire guy and you know, he did a little

(19:48):
bit BDSM stuff, but it wasn't. But that was.
That's like the entry level now.Yeah, that's get into that.
That's what I'm saying. You get further down.
We've gotten so far from that, that that wasn't healthy, right?
But this is so far from healthy.It's the gateway drug.
Yeah, yeah. So that it's, it's just become,
it's become this and not enough people have talked about this

(20:09):
and and actually made this like it's a problem.
Like you're psychologically damaging yourself and your
future relationships because you're going to be unfulfilled.
It's just like the same thing I tell guys all the time is it's
like, OK, if you're constantly looking at corn or other women
or whatever, then you're ruiningyour own sexual experience with
your wife or the woman that you're with because it's not

(20:31):
going to feel as good, right? It's not going to be as
exciting. Yeah.
And so, but if you deprive yourself from that, if you know
when you're at the gym and you see the, what you might call it
up the ass crack yoga pants and you're just like, look away.
You're doing it for your own look.
Away from the yoga. Pants, right?
You're doing it for your own good because you're, you're,
you're, you're, you're re sensitizing yourself.

(20:54):
You're, you're, you're preventing yourself from having
all this sexual stimulus that you're constantly bombarded with
so that you can have better sexual experiences in your life,
right? You know, and that's, it's a
smart move to do right? So but doing the opposite is a
very dumb move because it's going to make you unsatisfied

(21:15):
with everything and it's going to ruin your relationships
because at some point your partner's going to know that
you're not happy with them, thatyou're not satisfied.
They're going to feel inadequate, right And then
what's going to happen from thatthat point forward, right now,
now you have the only that's going to make you feel good is
going to be something that you can't even have, right, exactly

(21:35):
because it doesn't exist, right,right.
Well. And another one of my big issues
with this is children. Yeah.
So our daughter mentioned at onepoint that one of her friends
was reading not the Minotaur book, but a book that has very
money in it. Yeah.
And this was when she was in 8thgrade, Yeah.

(21:58):
And that I have a problem with. I get that as a parent, you'd
rather have your kid reading a book, I'm sure, than going out
and doing certain things. But also as a parent, if your
kid is reading these books at that age, how long is it going
to take them to get to Minotaur Milk Maid?

(22:21):
And they're they're thirteen years old like that.
And then it's if they go online,all these women are promoting
these books, right? So they think it's fine.
Yeah. They think it's normalized.
It's. A fun club to be part of.
Right, right. And so then they just go down
this spiral even earlier, like if you're a woman and that's

(22:45):
what you want to do, at the end of the day, that is your choice.
But you will ruin your sex life with your husband or your
partner, whoever. But that's still your choice.
But children should not be exposed to these things in this
way and have basically their sexual preferences changed and

(23:06):
morphed by these books before they even really know what they
want, and that they shouldn't even be focusing all of that
energy on to that. Specifically, and it's fun, like
if you're an adult woman and you're like, I don't see any
problem. I like to like be choked or
slapped or whatever and be degraded, fine, that's your

(23:28):
choice. However, do you want your
daughter to be soaked, to be choked and slapped and degraded?
Probably not, right? Like you probably don't want her
to marry some dude that's going to do that to her, right?
So if so, it's like, OK, you could justify yourself and
that's fine. That's what you're into.
Whatever. I mean, it is a perversion that
you know, and I think that the thing about that is that we'll,

(23:50):
we'll get into that topic. But but you can sure have that
perversion yourself. But do you want your, your
child? Because that's what's, you know,
if you're promoting that, if you're OK with that being just
out there, because everything that's out there today is
something that's accessible to children.
There's no things are not accessible to children anymore.
The Internet has made it so that, you know, 8 year olds have

(24:12):
access to everything. And and even if you restrict
your child from it, right? They go to school and the kids
talk the. Other kid is reading the book
and talks them and shows them ontheir phone or whatever it is.
I mean the kids are even just have their phone in school just
playing games and watching whatever they want on their
phone in school. Now that's.
What the situation is, Yeah. But but the other part of that
that is that about the sexual perversion of it is that there's

(24:35):
a healthy sexuality around womenwanting a dominant man to be
more powerful than powerful thanthem and to maybe even overpower
them. I'm not talking about in a in a
grape way, but I'm just saying like to, to feel a man's power
and dominance, right and and his, his authority, like in a

(24:56):
sexual way. I think that's a totally natural
instinct that that women have. The perversion of it is wanting
to be slapped and choked and whatever and punched in the face
and be called names and, and be degraded.
That's not healthy. It's not a healthy psychology,
right? Like a lot of people like, oh,
no, that's just what my kink is.No, no, you have to understand

(25:17):
it's a perversion of a natural, a natural desire that you have.
And, and the reason why I think that that desire comes out is
because in the modern world, right, in the, in the, in the
kind of world that we live in, avery feminist type of world,
it's not OK for a man to be in charge.
It's not OK for a man. You know, there's, there's this
whole backlash against masculinity and, and men being

(25:40):
masculine and being dominant, right?
And so how do you get that if you, if you're not getting that
in the, in the, if you're, if it's not acceptable in the real
world, is that you have to then go into this fantasy world where
you're getting an extreme version of that or even not even
in fantasy world in your actual sexual life, right?

(26:01):
Because in your real life, you're not getting that.
So when you're in the bedroom now you're, you're, you're
getting this in, in an extreme form.
That's a bad form of that, right, which comes from a low
self esteem. And so we have to realize that
these aren't healthy sexual dynamics and find the healthy
version of it. But these books are pushing you

(26:21):
further down that path and and programming you to now to to now
respond in that way. Right.
Well, and I do think again, likeI said, you can be, you can
reprogram yourself and you should because even like not to
go too in detail, but in our personal life, you used to tell
me like, oh, you can like do these things if you want on your

(26:42):
own. And I'd be like, no, I'd rather
us do things together. And I don't think you understood
it fully until we were talking about this the other day And I
explained it to you that like, Idon't want to spread my sexual
energy to just focus on myself when I'd rather focus it on you

(27:03):
and I. And like, even though it's not
that big of a deal and it wouldn't get to that point, but
what if it did? What if I started enjoying my
alone time more than time with you?
You know what I mean? And like, that would cause a
problem in our relationship. And that's what these books are
doing. Like these women are enjoying
their reading their book time more than being with their

(27:23):
husband or they're reading theirbook time and then the only
penis they have is their husbands and it doesn't go go
gadget and do stuff, but that'lldo I guess, you know, like
that's this is what's happening.And so if you again, like
resensitize yourself to what youhave and invest in your actual

(27:44):
physical relationship with your husband or your partner, then
you will become fulfilled from that.
But it will take time because you essentially, it's like an
addict. You have to go through some
withdrawals. I'm sure there's going to be
times when you're like, I want to read the Minotaur, but you
have to not do it. Like you have to kind of go cold
Turkey and go kind of like, you know, the men that would go off

(28:08):
to war if they saw an ankle, they'd be like, oh God, I just,
I just had a moment there, you know what I mean?
Like, but essentially that's what it is, is what you have to
do and you can do it. But first you have to realize
you know the point that you've gotten to and how you got there
and how you have to get away from that point.

(28:28):
Yeah, yeah. I forgot what I was.
I was going to say. There was something about like I
lost it. I lost it.
I should have wrote it down in my notebook.
Lost in the sauce? Yeah, I was going to say
something about. I was hoarding the pin.
That's OK. It's it's too late now.
But I can't, I can't, I can't remember it now.

(28:51):
It'll it'll come to me. Yeah.
Oh, no, no, I know what I was going to say.
Yes, it just came right to me. So you got to think about like,
again, if you had a guy that wasspending 2-3 hours a day
watching corn, right, you kind of give down on him, not just
because he's watching corn, but you'd be like, you're ignoring
your, your wife and your kids, like why you're spending all

(29:14):
this time watching corn. It's not like you're building a
business. It's not like you're going and
working out, like you're indulging yourself in fantasies.
So you'd probably be like you'reyou're not like you're not doing
your job, right. It would be probably like your
bad husband, your bad father, like you probably would say that
to that guy, right? Honestly.

(29:35):
OK, so if you're reading hundreds of books, which take
how many hours does it take to read one book?
OK, So if you're doing that right, like I'm not saying, you
know, reading a handful of of books, even even that's, you
know, smart novel is still not good.
But I'm saying that a lot of women are so addicted to this,
right, that they're reading hundreds of books.

(29:57):
How many hours of time is being wasted that's not being spent
with your husband, that's not being spent with your kids,
that's not being spent on productive things?
It's not good. Well my thing too is and they
might get mad but. They're going to get.
They're already mad. I would dare to say that you got

(30:21):
into smut novels because your sex life probably wasn't
fulfilling and then you used it to fill that void and then now
you got addicted to it and now you don't need to work on fixing
your sex life with your partner because you're this thing is
filling this void now, right? If you're fulfilled in your sex
life, you don't need to read about other people having sex,

(30:44):
right? It's not something that you
actively seek out. Like I am in a book club with
girls that I know and they read smut and that's that's on them.
That's not on me. But I'm I'm not reading the
books that they're reading. We don't read them in the book
club, but I know outside of bookclub they read the books and

(31:05):
that is their choice. However, you know, I am not
going to read any of those booksbecause I know that none of them
could accurately depict the typeof intimacy that you and I have.
And it's far greater than anything I could read about some
Minotaur or anything else really.

(31:26):
Even like the human ones with the vampires and the fairies and
whatever. Like all of it, like is not
going to top what you and I haveand like the things that we do.
And so I feel like you have to also be honest about that part
too, is that if you are supplementing your sexual energy
towards books, you could be putting that towards your actual

(31:51):
intimacy with your partner and create such a great sex life
that you don't need the books. Yeah, if you put all that time
and energy instead into developing your sex, your actual
sex life with your partner, thatthat that's a lot of hours of
time that you could work on things and make things really
good, right? Exactly.

(32:13):
Well, and I know the last time we did this, the book talk,
people were like, well, you've never read a book, so you don't
understand. I've read some romance books
that have some scenes of spice. I wouldn't even yeah, spice is
what they call it. And it's not like full blown
erotica. And it's like I don't need to
read the full blown erotica whenalready the like spicy parts of

(32:34):
these romance books, right, are not interesting to me.
Like I don't need a A5 page description of some guy and some
woman that I don't know doing things to each other when I
could call you into the room andwe could do the things and that
would be way better. You know what I mean?
So like. You could.

(32:56):
Summon me red. You could be like.
Some of the spicy stuff, but it doesn't interest me.
Like it's that's not what I'm here for.
I am here for the story, right? And when they throw in those
things, I'm kind of like you kind of and.
It's not just a matter of taste,right?
Because it's like, look, I haven't done meth, but I'm
pretty sure I'd like it, you know?

(33:17):
But I'm not going to because it's not going to be good for
me. Here's what I'm saying.
So it's like, because sometimes people say, well, it's just what
I'm into or what I like. Yeah, No, Like whoever did
whatever drug that you did, you'd like it, but it doesn't
mean that you should do it. Or it's not just a matter of
taste. It's just like, it's prudence,
right? It's like, yeah, if you read

(33:38):
smart novels, you're gonna enjoythem.
Of course you're going to, because they're designed that
way, right? Just like when you eat a Reese's
Bar, it tastes good because it'sdesigned that way.
You want to eat another one? Exactly.
It's designed that way, right. But that.
But that doesn't mean that that you should indulge in it.
Yeah, You know what I mean? That's.
That's exactly. And it's like, if you can

(33:58):
control yourself, because I've said this before, like if you're
single and you want to have somespecial time with yourself, I
don't see the harm in reading a spicy book.
But if you can't control yourself to go from like spicy
to 100, then you probably shouldn't do that.

(34:19):
And it's probably better to justavoid that in general, right to
use your mind to. Like, I mean, if it's gonna, if
most people spiral to yeah, a Minotaur milk maid book, then
yeah, you should. You want to have that system
primed as best as possible, you know what I'm saying?
To be be as sensitized as possible.
That's like something that I think a lot of people didn't
really think about until the corn epidemic came around.

(34:41):
And now it's like all these guysare having some major problems,
right, with, with their wives and girlfriends and, and
whatnot. And but this, you know, so I, I
think that's, that is important.Yeah, but I think both people
have to give it up. The guys have to give up the
corn and the woman have to give up the smart novels.
And I think that the issue is like, because you said, I mean,

(35:02):
we know a ton of people, a lot, most women, a large percentage
of women read smart novels, right?
So it's not like we're saying, Oh, you're a bad person and
like, but it's like, but you do need to wake up and, and, and,
and realize that it's not good, right?
Like it's not like, you know what I'm saying.
It's not like most, I think a lot of women that are, are

(35:22):
partaking in this don't they're just innocently doing so.
They don't think there's anything wrong.
Or they've seen other people be like, oh, I like the spicy books
and like, spicy, spicy. And they're like, oh, OK, we're
like outwardly reading these books now, like in public.
OK, like I'll do it, you know, like they're just going along.
Could it 'cause that you go downthe spiral?
That's why we're making this episode is not to like beat up

(35:45):
on people and be like, oh, you're such a bad person.
It's just to make you realize that look, you you need an
intervention because you're not realizing how bad this actually
is for both men and women. Like men also need to realize on
the corn side. Obviously that's been talked
about plenty, but but that your wife reading these is not good.
It's not good for you. It's like you might think it's

(36:06):
good for you, but it's not good.Well, and if you're a man
reading or watching corn, you need to stop that as well too,
because 90% of men do that. And the, I'm sure the smut
novels, it's getting up to the same sort of percentage.
Like you said, like we're not here to shame people.
We know plenty of people that read these sort of books, and
I'm not saying they're worse. I'm better than them.

(36:29):
I'm not saying that in any way. I'm just saying, and what you're
saying is that we just want people to realize what's
actually happening. Like this is the woman version
of Korn, but it's actually kind of worse because it's been
normalized and popularized, popularized, popularized,
popularized. And like that is damaging your

(36:55):
actual real life, physical, intimate relationships and
situations that you're in. And you don't think that it is.
You think that, Oh no, it's good.
Like I want to do it all the time, but like, can you honestly
sit here and tell me that you want to do it with the man that
you're looking at when you're ontop of him?
Or are you pretending he's a minotaur that you're milking?

(37:17):
Or a or bringing it or a vampire?
Enduring some fantasy from the book.
Right. Or thinking of some scenario
that you're in and that like you're not really in the moment.
And I guess that's The thing is like, I want to help women enjoy
their real life. Like be in the moment.
Like, like I get that going to this, like fantasyland is a good

(37:39):
coping mechanism that people like to use, but it's not
actually good for you. Like it works to escape what's
going on in your life, but the thing that's going to make you
the happiest is coming back to reality, fixing your reality
where it's a place you actually want to be and be present in the
moment with the person that you love, love and you want to be
intimate with instead of fantasizing even when you're

(38:02):
with that person. Because like you said, do you
know how offended women would beif like she was intimate with
her man? And he was like, yeah, I was
imagining you were like my step sister from that one video.
You know what I mean? Like that.
But that's essentially what it is.
And. Let me give you the counter
argument to that, because I already know that it's coming,
which is that women will say, I don't do that.

(38:27):
I, I, I just like the books. It just turns me on and then I'm
so turned on and then I, I'm, I'm present having sex with my
man. Like you said, you can't detach
though, like you can't detach those things.
Let's say that that's even true.Let's give them that.
So if a guy is like, Oh yeah, I just watch a bunch of porn now I
want to have sex with you. Like the porn turned me on the

(38:50):
corn. I've blown it.
That's OK. That's what he.
Said I'm still going to say wow.The corn turned me on and now I
want to have sex with you. How does that feel?
Right? Not you turned me on.
Not you turned me on. So if you're like as I won't.
Oh, the book turned me on and now I want to have sex with you.
Hurry up. I'm turned on.
You better hurry. It's not because of you, It's

(39:11):
because of this book. So it's fading fast.
And that's really the actual, the actuality.
Like those words are even spoken, right.
Yeah. You know, it's like it doesn't,
it wouldn't work the other way. You wouldn't be very happy about
that. It's like, oh, I don't turn you
on. You have to look at porn and
then you're turned on. Now you're ready to go.
Yeah, That doesn't, it doesn't make any sense.

(39:33):
So that's. No, I agree.
It's like it's offensive and anywoman would be offended.
Yeah. So why do we think it's OK to do
it, men? And even as a single woman, I'm,
I'm telling you because, you know, guys have talked about
this and I've seen them talk about it and I've coached guys
and I'm like, look, if you're dating a girl and you go over to
her house and you see a bookshelf full of smut novels,
just walk out. Because you're not going to like

(39:54):
walk out because you're done. Because you're done because
she's so. Because you're going to have to
do like find another girl that'snot ruined because.
That's what it's going to be like.
They're. Going to have no woman.
A lot of women are reading the sweat novel.
I know. So don't be one of those because
because I because honestly, likeif I'm giving good advice to a
guy, I already know what he's competing against, it's not
good. Like he he's not going to like

(40:17):
she's already got so much stuff that she's consumed that has
filled her mind. And we're not just talking about
Minotaur stuff, but also dark, you know, degrading, kind of
abusive. Yeah, that it's like, what are
you going to do? You're either going to like be
one of those guys and give her what she quote wants or which is

(40:40):
still not even going to, you know, like or what, what option
do you have? Like you said, I'm saying
otherwise you might as well justwalk.
Out, but then you make it sound like they're they can't be
fixed. Well, they have to fix
themselves. But what I'm saying is that but
like you at that point you're broken.
You have to realize that you're broken.
Like your sexuality is broken. Like, OK, if we had a guy and he
and he gets turned on by like watching animals or whatever,

(41:05):
like watching some really perverted porn, right?
We would say he's broken. We would be like you, you would
not tell a girl that's like, Oh yeah, when when you looked at
his browsing history and it was like a whole bunch of weird ass
porn, you wouldn't be like, yeah, that seems like a good guy
you should date. You'd be like, maybe stay away
from that guy, right? So why would it work any

(41:26):
different? Because it's weird ass shit that
you know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying is like
it, it's not to be, I'm not trying to be offensive or, or
mean or rude. I'm just saying that's the
reality is that if I'm giving good advice to a guy, I'm like,
yeah, if a girl's involved with all that stuff, it's there's a
lot of things that are going to be broken that I don't know if

(41:47):
you want to come in and be the guy that tries to fix it and
good luck because someone's got an addiction.
How are you going to help someone?
You know, it's just like if, if someone's, if a guy's got an
addiction, what are you going todo?
You're going to hope that he breaks his addiction.
He needs to break the addiction first.
Yeah, man, you really That probably messed up the dating
world the most if people listen to that.

(42:08):
I mean, I'm just saying. I mean, tell me that I'm wrong
too. Tell me.
That. I'm wrong?
I'd rather be wrong. But here's the problem is that
women can't see a man's browser history.
But if she has her books out, she's going to be able to see.
But men can hide their stuff, sure, which is just as bad.
Like men should also not be doing that sort of stuff, right?
And especially if you're like, not if you're keeping that from

(42:32):
your partner because that's the worst.
Like, I mean, at least with the book ladies, they're pretty open
about what they're reading, right?
And so there can be a conversation.
But with guys, it's all very secretive.
Like most women don't know the type of corn that their man is
watching or the person that theywant to go to date is watching

(42:54):
and then they get in a relationship and then they don't
even have the option to make that decision before they get in
a relationship. You think most guys really know
what's in these books? They're probably like, oh, she's
just reading romance novels, which which again, I'm also at
this point, I'm also against thereading romance novels.
I don't think that's a good ideabecause that's also just
creating it. It's not just real life.
You know, like stick to real life stuff, right?

(43:15):
You know what I mean? Not not when it comes to your
sexual like if you want to read a fantasy novel about Dragons
and whatever and and nights, whatever adventure that's that's
fine or some sci-fi thing or whatever.
But when it comes to like your sexuality, you probably don't
want to mess with that and set expectations and set things that
are not achievable and and also the novelty of it, because it's

(43:36):
like you. Why don't you just read the same
book over and over again? Because you want the novelty of
it. And if you, if you get yourself
stimulated and hooked on novelty, you're going to
constantly want, So if you read a bunch of romance novels that
aren't even smut novels, right? And then you get your
relationship with one guy, but you've been reading fantasy
stories about all these romances, you think you're going

(43:57):
to be less and more satisfied. I'm not saying that you couldn't
have a successful relationship. I'm just going to.
I'm just saying that would you be more or less satisfied than
if you hadn't, You know, and, and it's common sense.
Yeah. But, but definitely with the
with the with the novels, most guys don't even know what's in
those books. They don't think that she's
reading about some milking minute, you know, they don't

(44:19):
think that that's what's going on.
So they don't, they don't have any idea.
Some videos that we saw in the one.
But most guys in general don't know that.
Yeah, right. Or or even the dark kind of
really BDSM type of like where? Until they're with the woman
that tells them to do stuff and then they're like, what?
Yeah, and that's, that's off putting as a guy, right, Because

(44:40):
I've had women tell me stuff like that, like do this.
And I'm like, no, I'm not going to not going to hit you, not
going to choke you, not going toslap you in the face.
Sorry. That's not that, you know,
there's something wrong with you.
Like, and I'm not going to, I'm not going to reinforce your
abuse pattern because that wouldbe abuse in any other situation.
That would be abuse right Yet now it's OK.

(45:00):
No, it's it's abuse like and andyou, oh, it's consenting.
No, it's still abuse like you like, just because if I'm like,
if you're like, hey, hit my handwith a, with a my, my thumb with
a hammer. They're like, I know I want you
to that like if I do it, I'm still bad.
I'm still wrong, I'm still hurting you like I'm, and I'm
choosing even if you tell me that's what you want me to do.
It's still violent. It's still not something that's

(45:23):
product that's good for that person, right?
You know what I mean? Like you don't just do things
just because people want you to do them and think that you're
OK. And instead, you should want to
be like, admired and adored and like, looked at fondly and
lovingly like. That should be the energy that
we have when we're in intimate relationships.

(45:43):
And if you're honest with yourself as a woman, you need to
ask yourself where these sort ofdesires, like hitting and
choking and some of the more extreme ones really came from,
because it's probably not a goodplace where it came from.
Right. It, it, it came from somewhere.
Something you read, something you experienced, something you

(46:04):
saw, something. You know, that that got you
turned on about that and then that became like that became
rooted into your, your sexualityand your psychology.
Yeah, which I really think what you said earlier on that the
root desire of most women, majority of women is a strong

(46:26):
dominant man because that is what the core is that all these
smut novels, books as well too, all of these characters that
these men are, are are these strong dominant men that like
turn soft for them or, you know,like care about them and protect
them. But they're all usually strong

(46:46):
dominant men or creatures or whatever.
Like that's the core thing. And when you feel like you have
to feel that strong dominance toan extreme where they have to
literally hurt you in order for you to feel that contrast,
that's a problem. Because you should still be able

(47:07):
to admire and feel the dominancewithout a man hurting you or
like resorting to violence, evenif you're asking for it.
That's like you have taken it tothis extreme that you don't even
realize is an extreme because you won't even allow yourself to

(47:28):
experience the normal dominance of a man in a way that would
have you that part of your desire fulfilled.
Now it has to go to the extreme because somewhere along the way
the normal desire of it became not enough, and then it's just
going to keep going. The more you have somebody

(47:50):
actually doing the extreme things or reading the extreme
things, the further down the extremes you're going to go.
Just like a man watching Korn. It's no different that everyone
starts out pretty innocent and then certain things happen.
They get addicted to it. They need more, they need new,

(48:11):
they need more extreme to get the same feeling.
It's essentially what a drug addict does as well too.
They need more drugs to feel thesame feeling they had before and
so you have to be real with where this all came from.
And that only comes if you indulge.
If you deprive, you reset. You create that healthy balance.

(48:32):
And the same exists in the world.
I forget what they call it, but it's a I can't remember the the
term of it, but our food is likethat as well, right, because our
natural food of like fruits, in fact, we the the original fruits
weren't even that sweet. We even the fruits that we eat
now, like which we call natural or not, they're, they're super.

(48:53):
GMO D Yeah, well, they're, they're genetically modified.
They're artificial in the sense yeah, they're even if they're
not GMO D but bread even for the, the sweetness or the right.
But the food that we have, it's an artificial when you go and
you get a hamburger and and all of the additives and the the
sugar, refined sugar and all of these things, it's creates AI

(49:16):
can't think of the the name for it, but there's a there's a word
for this where that's why we're fat.
That's why we have all of these health problems is because those
foods, we overeat them. We overindulge them because
they're, they're greater than the natural pleasure response
that we get from those things. And so it's the same thing with,

(49:39):
with corn, with the, the smut novels is that it creates this
overconsumption because it's, it's more than a natural
stimulus and it makes it so you're not happy with natural
stimulus. Like if you, if you ate an old
time apple or whatever be beforeit was bred, you know, like
what, how it existed originally in nature, you'd, you'd be like,

(50:01):
oh, this is disgusting. It doesn't, it doesn't, it
doesn't taste sweet at all. You know, I mean, like, so, so
that's, that's, that's the issueis that we're, we're creating
these environments and it existsin social media all over the
place where we're getting this constant dopamine and, and, and
it's making. So we're not satisfied with with
anything. Right, that's true.
Well, and to think about to along with the like the
resensitizing, think about when you haven't gotten any in a

(50:23):
while, like let's say a month, let's say you haven't gotten any
a month. And then you're with your
partner, you're with someone andthey like just touch you and
you're like ready to go. Like you can do that with your
mind. You can resensitize yourself,
but you have to deprive yourselfif you've gone this far and get

(50:46):
back to the baseline that you need to be at.
Right. So like, it is possible.
We've seen it. And just like with your apple
thing, like if you weren't able to eat anything except that
apple, yeah, eventually that apple would taste really good.
Oh. Yeah.
Well, if you go on a diet and you don't eat any sugar, right,
or you do like a keto diet whereyou don't need any carbohydrates

(51:08):
and then you have just like a little piece of something sweet,
It's it tastes so much sweeter, right?
You know, So yeah. Should I read that guy's yes.
e-mail before? Let me see.
I can find. It just so people can have other
someone else's perspective. Yeah, because he had some good
questions about. Let me see.
I think, I think we still saved it in the e-mail account.

(51:29):
There. Yeah, I think it's still on an
arm of e-mail. OK.
Oh yeah, Jake, OK, from state. Farm.
He says here. So I listened to your podcast on
this subject is romance novels. So I listened to your podcast on

(51:50):
this after doing a whole bunch of deep dives into women slash
wives who read romance novels, this is all my wife exclusively
reads. We've been together since we
were 17, married for 17 years now and have three kids.
She started reading 50 Shades during all the hubbub when it
came out in 2017 ish. We watched all the movies
together and I found that all extremely hot.

(52:12):
And then she really dove head first into romance novels for
her escape in 2020, which to me back then was even more awesome.
Nothing like being quarantined with three kids and a wife who
couldn't get enough of me thanksto her books.
It was really a great time. Fast forward five years and she
is still is just invested in into these all Spice Devils, all

(52:35):
genres. She gets her playlist, finds
pictures of the couples or or more if or more if it's a Why
Choose novel, and dives in everynight so she actually finds
pictures of the couples. She can see what they look like.
Yeah, I've expressed how these make me feel and compared them

(52:55):
to me watching porn. And just like all the excuses in
your podcast, it's not the same,it's different.
I enjoy the story. Where I get my biggest heartburn
is from is she won't share the novels with me, she won't talk
about them, won't let me read over her shoulder during the
spicy scenes, has pictures of the couples, etcetera.

(53:16):
If she sees me reading over her shoulder it causes quite an
issue. Saying I give her the ick
feeling for reading these scenes, which I have said maybe
she shouldn't be reading. These really did help her come
out of her shell sexually and normalize the ability to talk
about different things and what we like and don't like so there
can be some positive things. I've gone behind her and and

(53:40):
read some of the books and man talk about making me feel
insecure. Some of her arguments are it
didn't used to bother you, why does it matter?
Which makes me feel even more insecure that she is shocked
that it bothers me. Part of me wants to just throw
up my hands and join her. We're pretty devotee Christian
so this leads to a whole other layer of guilt for me when I

(54:03):
decide to indulge myself in the books, especially because she
wouldn't approve of me reading them because I don't read them
for the stories they're written by women for women.
Anyways, I love my wife with allmy heart and hate that I feel
like this has come between us from my perspective as it
doesn't seem to affect her opinion of me and I'm quite at a
loss on how to navigate this beyond prayer and spiritual

(54:25):
intervention. It's definitely much more
culturally appropriate for womento read these than it is for men
to consume porn. And I hate talking about this
because it feels like I'm putting my wife on blast.
I don't personally watch porn anymore for a variety of
reasons. The biggest is now having a
daughter. And man what a different
perspective that puts on your life.
This e-mail is over all over theplace, just me vomiting my

(54:47):
thoughts. It was nice to hear similar
perspective from another couple,especially one without face base
background to not make me feel crazy and insecure.
Feel free to write back any tipson future conversations with my
wife, how to explain how it makes me feel without causing
more arguments. So quite a bit there.
But I mean I'm glad that you said that e-mail because like

(55:09):
that shows the progression and like he thought it was a good
thing at 1st and now look what'swhat's happening and how far
that she's gone down. This just starting with the 50
Shades of grey. If he can't look over your
shoulder, read the thing that's,I mean, that's textbook like,
you know, you're not doing what you should be doing.

(55:29):
That's like men when they're cheating and you can't see their
phone, like why are you not letting your husband read these
things? Like that is a huge red flag.
And I feel for him because again, like you said, he liked
the benefits in the beginning, but and now it's gotten to a

(55:50):
point where it's secretive and he's excluded.
And it's not going to get betterunless she stops reading the
books and hopefully they talk about it and she actually
listens to what he has to say. Because I think honestly, if
you're an open minded person, you have to realize it's super

(56:13):
hypocritical for women to be able to read their corn, but
guys get crap for watching Korn.Like they're essentially the
same thing. Because the purpose is the same.
I don't care if there's people in it or it's AI or it's words
or it's Braille. I don't care what it is.

(56:34):
The purpose is to get turned on sexually, to do things sexually,
and that's the same. And so we can't be hypocritical
and say 1 is fine and publicize it and also make it like where
children are coming across some of these books and they might

(56:56):
read the book or something and which they shouldn't be.
If a child if you would be upsetthat your child is watching Korn
right, you should be upset that your child's reading this book.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
So that's the biggest thing hereis that you have to honestly
realize that it's super hypocritical that these books
are fine, especially the majority of them that are

(57:19):
really, really bad, like really explicit, really, you know,
harmful extreme situations that we're normalizing.
And that's the biggest problem here.
It doesn't matter that it's a book like it, it is perpetuating
something that is not good. I mean, that e-mail shows that

(57:41):
it has spiraled into something where now she's being secretive
and she's like, you're giving methe ick.
Do you think she's gonna wanna go have sex with him if she if
he's giving her the. Ick, right?
Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine having your
spouse tell you that? Giving you the ick?
Like that's how far it's gone, you know?
Yeah. And then and her looking up what

(58:02):
the people look like. Yeah, now it is getting visual.
Yeah, now it is getting, you know, into another level.
Become this level of addiction, right?
It's not sexual liberation. It's not all those things like
she's making all the excuses. Just like, I mean, I've dealt
with drug addicts and they will lie to you.
They will tell you every reason why they're not addicted, why

(58:24):
they can go without a fix. They'll tell you everything,
everything to convince you that they're not as depraved as they
actually are. Because that's how, because they
don't want to be cut off from their source.
You know what I'm saying? And that's the thing because
there's, it's so, so dear to them that they don't want to be

(58:46):
cut, that they'll give anything to not be cut off from their
source. And that's that's the same
behavior. Well, on the issue too, when he
said that he's glad that they, you know, are able to talk about
things more, I think that he's confusing that the books gave
her that because really she should be open with him and they

(59:07):
should have been trying things and figuring those things out
together. And so I don't think that it's
the book necessarily. And I don't want people to think
like, Oh, I need the book to figure out what I like sexually.
Like there are plenty of other ways to do that, especially if
you have a partner. You guys can talk about it and

(59:29):
try new things and figure out what you like and you don't like
without having to. And that's a safe place and it's
reality, rather than reading this book that might have
extreme things that you might belike, oh, can we try this?
You know what I mean? Like things that you probably
shouldn't even be willing to tryin the first place.

(59:51):
Yeah. So the advice for him, I would
say for him to to have a conversation with her and to
say, look, I'm very uncomfortable with this.
Do you care that I'm very uncomfortable with this,
regardless of what your reasons are?

(01:00:12):
Whatever. Do you, do you care that I'm
very uncomfortable to start the conversation with that right.
And then if she says yes and sayOK, well, you know, what can we
do to change the situation and then to explain to her why?
Right. Well, he could even, I was going
to say he could even start with like, I know that we both were
fine with this in the beginning,but now that to the point that

(01:00:35):
it's gotten very uncomfortable and I don't think that it's a
good idea anymore at all. Yeah, like, you know, he can be
honest and be like, you know, I did tell you that this was fine,
but I was wrong. Yeah, like because look what
it's done to our relationship. Yeah.
And our intimacy, like I'm sure their intimacy is affected as
well too. Yeah, and, and even to admit

(01:00:58):
that of course this is going to make him feel sexually insecure
in this case, right. In most cases, I don't tell a
guy to admit that he feels insecure.
But in this case, it's odd like there's it's not an insecurity
for just because you're you're weak, it's an insecurity because
who wouldn't, right? And then just give her the flip
the script. Don't even use porn.
Just say, OK, if I read these books and I spent hours reading

(01:01:22):
these books. And I was hiding them from you
and I was looking up pictures. Would you feel insecure about
that? Would you be OK with that?
Would you honestly? Would you feel like there wasn't
a problem? Right.
Right. Like, you know, obviously you
would. And then I think at some point
you kind of have to put your foot down and, and be like, all
right, if you're going to continue to do this, even

(01:01:42):
though, and there's a differencebetween saying, OK, you better
not do this, right? Versus if you're going to
continue to do this even though I've told you how uncomfortable
it makes me feel. And then I'm going to distance
myself. Like I'm not going to have sex

(01:02:03):
with you. I'm not going to be just an
object that you use, right. I'm not gonna feel comfortable
having sex with you. Or, and hey, maybe I mean,
you're gonna have to have a lot of hard conversations about.
It right, you'll have to have a boundary, the boundary that
feels right to have in that situation, which should be a

(01:02:24):
boundary because you can't that just like if a guy was addicted
to corn and you're like, hey, this makes me uncomfortable,
like could you please stop doingthat?
And they continue to do it. A woman would have to do the
same sort of thing, have some sort of boundary, have some sort
of, you know, action that she takes in regards to this thing
that is destroying their relationship.

(01:02:45):
And if you need an intervention,like if you're Christian, you
say that she's Christian, you'reboth Christian, go to your
pastor. Yeah.
And be like, hey, let's sit downand ask him about it and see
what he says. Let's let's get a third party
perspective on it and see if that or go to marriage
counseling and, you know, and see what they.
I mean, I think that most people, even even a very woke

(01:03:06):
therapist, would realize that this is destructive of their
relationship at this point. You see what I'm saying?
So like, get the intervention. I mean, it's going to take some
balls to to do this because she's not going to be happy
about it and she might threaten to divorce you or whatever, But
it's like you're going that direction either way.
So you might as well be steeringthe ship and be like in control

(01:03:28):
of this. And maybe even you're the one
that has to say, well, maybe we need some time apart or whatever
because like this is an addiction and this is not
healthy and this is not OK. And this is not what I signed up
for. Like this is I consider this to
be cheating. Like it's, it's not being
sexually faithful to like, especially when you're bringing
up pictures of other people, even at their fantasy photos.

(01:03:50):
Yeah. So yeah.
Yeah, no, I. It's a sticky, but that's why
don't ever get to the. Situation don't go down.
You know, it's like if the. Wormhole.
Yeah, like and and if you're a guy that your wife is just
reading some whatever. Smack it out of her hand.
Just kidding, throw it away. Which grocery?

(01:04:12):
Store down the toilet, be like empty all our books into the
trash can and be like. Well, like, honey, where's my
book? Oh, I have no idea.
I don't know. No, but confront.
It have a conversation. Confront it now.
Right. You know, right?
Yeah, and even just be like, oh,I'm glad you're showing more
sexual interest. I really like that however.

(01:04:35):
I want it to be geared towards me, not.
It's not, I'm not because if youdon't have the balls to do it,
then like when you feel like it's a benefit to you, then
you're going to let it get to the point where it's not going
to feel like a benefit to you anymore because that's going to
wear off. And you're going to be like, OK,
yeah, you know, she's just usingme, right?
And that's not going to not going to feel good.
Right. So you're right.

(01:04:56):
All right, well, book talk, comefor us.
They're going. To They're going to come.
For us, but I think we make a lot of sense.
But I'm biased but. Yeah.
And the authors that like try tolike this is one thing.
I'll say one last thing is because the authors, because
they came for us, the authors. Yeah, but they're just trying to
make money. Yeah, that's exactly.
They're just trying to make money.

(01:05:17):
They're like a drug dealer. So I don't respect any of that.
You're not. You're not a writer, OK?
You're you're peddling smut likelike you're, you're, it's, it's
depravity like you might be. Oh, it's, it's not, it's not
literature. It's not literature, right?
It, it's not, it's not, let's not pretend like it's your art
or whatever kind of bullshit you're making money peddling

(01:05:38):
that maybe you're an addict to and you and you cook up a good
batch as well, but that's like you're a drug dealer.
Like you're allowing people to destroy their lives and their
relationships and you're profiting from that.
So I don't have an ear respect for you.
I'm not going to, I'm not going to worry about I'm stepping on
your toes and hurting your feelings.
Like, I mean, we're a little bitsofter on it last time, but but

(01:05:59):
as I've thought about it more, I'm like, no, no, you're the
you're the problem is like you're benefiting from other
people's misery. You know what I mean?
So there you go. They are just upset because this
is their bread and butter, whichI get, but it's like, it's like
you're like you said, you're kind of you're promoting the
issue. Yeah.
Yeah, if you want to write, write, but don't write that like

(01:06:22):
like I I would respect you as anauthor if you write something,
Yeah, maybe even if you write a book and it had a sex scene and
OK, whatever, like or whatever. Like so you know, but but that
the stuff that you write, you know what you're doing.
Like don't, don't try to pretendlike I'm an idiot or we don't,
you know, don't gas like me because I know, you know, we all
know so. Right.

(01:06:43):
And maybe we will have a author or somebody on here at some
point because I wouldn't be opposed to having somebody on
here to talk. About I knew their perspective.
And it's not like we're not openminded, but it would be really
hard to convince us that smut isgood for you at this point
because I feel like we've done apretty good job explaining where

(01:07:03):
we're coming from and why we're talking about this.
And again, it's not to shame people.
It's not to make people feel bad, but it's to get people back
to a baseline where they're actually enjoying their real
life and their real partner and the real sex that they're having
and being in the present in the now with these experiences,

(01:07:26):
rather than living in a fantasy world.
And people might be like, oh, well, the real world sucks.
OK, Yeah, sure. But we're here.
You need to make the best of this real.
World, but it's comparison, it sucks in compare comparison as
this theft of the right, the depth of joy, right?
So it's like if you didn't have that fantasy world, then you'd

(01:07:47):
have to deal with the real worldand find the things that are
good in it. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, Which is what you should be doing because you can't even
go to these fantasy places in your books, only mentally.
And do you just want to live in your mind or do you want to live
here while you still have the chance?
So all. Right.
Well, let's close the book on it.
All right, guys, if you want to,you know, yell at us and, and

(01:08:10):
you're looking for the, the complaint department, it's that
better than [e-mail].
We will read all the, the emailsand, and then put them in the
archive and then talk about it, delete them.
But no, no, if you got a, if yougot a valid, you know, if you
got a good rebuttal, Yeah, I'm, I'm, we'll hear it.

(01:08:31):
We'll read it for sure. Podcast.
Talk about it. But, and you can check us out at
better than perfectpod.com. See you next week.