August 22, 2025 • 63 mins
An anthropologist says polyamorous couples are just as happy as monogamous ones. We pause the podcast, look at each other, and ask: Really? This episode dissects the “biology made me do it” argument—men’s visual wiring, women’s romance/status pull, jealousy/mate-guarding—and why biology ≠ destiny when you’re building a life, not running on instinct. We separate momentary happiness from long-term fulfillment and make the case for choosing one person—on purpose.⏱️ Timestamps (approx.)0:00 – Cold open: “Poly people are happier?” Our gut reaction2:05 – Are humans biologically monogamous or poly? What that even means4:20 – Fatherhood paradox in that interview: “Fathers matter… but also unnecessary?”6:45 – Biology as excuse vs information: why the difference matters9:00 – Men’s visual wiring; women’s romance/status wiring—temptations aren’t symmetric11:25 – Smut novels vs porn: parallel dopamine loops and why both corrode intimacy13:50 – We don’t live in nature: the attention economy hijacks instincts (food analogy)16:10 – Jealousy & mate-guarding: the biological clue for monogamy18:35 – History lesson: when polygamy “worked” (war, survival, provisioning)21:00 – Sperm Wars & Selfish Gene: cheater-effects, orgasm odds, replication logic23:40 – Happiness vs fulfillment: short-term highs, long-term emptiness26:15 – “Train the dog” metaphor: we already override biology everywhere else28:10 – Status talk: why a man must carry himself as her highest-status choice30:45 – Spiritual layer great than biology: why real love mutes primitive urges33:20 – The Costa Rican mango analogy: you don’t know the ceiling until you find it35:30 – Joint bank accounts, trust, and choosing covenant over “options”38:05 – Why blanket “biology says” claims confuse more than they clarify40:10 – Actionables: protect attention, kill comparisons, build chosen discipline42:00 – Final take: people can live how they want—just don’t sell biology as destiny👇 Links & Resources• Podcast site – https://betterthanperfectpod.com• Instagram – https://instagram.com/betterthanperfectpodcast• Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/0Os5mBb4WMKy7rw5GMHDN7• Apple – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-than-perfect-a-relationship-podcast/id1719469324🔔 Subscribe for weekly no-filter debates on love, polarity, and personal growth—where every topic splits the vote.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Honestly, how I feel is people can do whatever they want to do,
but to promote that they're happier with multiple partners,
right? There's just a part of me that
genuinely doesn't believe that. Like if for this part of their
life they want to be polyamorousand they're enjoying that, I
believe that. But having dated and tried to
find the person and dated arounduntil you came along, none of
(00:23):
even those other relationships or any part of that was better
than being with you. Again, I just feel like it's
harmful to be like, well, biologically we're not
monogamous and so these people are happier.
Like are they happier beyond? The perfect we discovered
through our flaws we complete each other.
Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find.
(00:48):
No way. Welcome back to the Better Than
Perfect podcast where every weekwe share with you how 2
imperfect people helping each other grow equals 1 better than
perfect relationship. That's.
Right. Yeah.
And the last, last week we were talking about rock stars.
Yeah. This week it's not as.
I mean, it's still pretty exciting, you know, biology,
(01:11):
right? Science.
Do you do? Bill Nye the Science guy.
Are we are? Are we a monogamous species?
Human beings. Yeah.
Are we biologically monogamous? Yeah.
Or polyamorous, as a lot of people say.
Yeah, we we listened to a podcast where.
It was the Diary of the CEO podcast and it was, I forget who
(01:36):
the guest was. It was a woman anthropologist
though, yeah. Socially Anthropologist.
And she was talking about like, fatherhood and love, but it was
mostly about fatherhood really, I feel like.
Yeah, yeah, I think it was. And why fathers are important
and things like that. But there was a tidbit in there.
(01:56):
Why fathers are important? Why?
Why? They're also unnecessary.
So that was the weird thing about the they're like, Oh yeah,
No 2, two women could be fathers, but fathers are
important. But.
Or two men can have the same effect as.
The mother. So it's like, why do we need
women? But why do we need men?
Why do we need anyone? We don't.
That's what AI wants us to believe because it's going to
(02:17):
take over. But anyway, go watch the AI
episode if you want to get more into that one part that really
stood out when she was talking about how polyamorous couples
like that's actually the biological way we're wired or
like. Same level, yeah, same level of
(02:37):
satisfaction between monogamous couples and and polyamorous.
Yeah. And we both like paused it and I
was like, wait a minute. And like we paused it because
one, obviously we don't agree with that.
But John actually brought up thepoint that I was thinking the
same thing is that when people talk about biologically, we're
(03:04):
not meant to be monogamous or even in my opinion,
biologically, like men are programmed to spread their seed
or you just mentioned before we started this episode,
biologically women are going to seek out the highest value man.
Like those things might be true,right?
But what we came to the agreement is, is that we don't
(03:26):
operate our lives from strictly biological right standards.
We're not. So animal, we're not just
animals, right? We have a spiritual ass.
Crazy, right? Yeah, like we don't just, you
know, we have cerebral literallyrun away when we're scared or
something. I mean, maybe if something's
chasing you. And that's what makes sense.
We don't just shit and pee wherever we want like like an
(03:48):
animal. Like we learned to become potty
trained. John didn't have to do an
elaborate dance in order for me to be like, ah, I want to mate
with him. Yeah, I just did that for fun.
Just yeah, you. Just do I mean.
It just, it just amped the wanting to mate with me more,
yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe like insert the clip?
Where's the? Gym, is it over there or there?
(04:10):
And then you're like, oh, I, I'mlike.
No, never mind. It can also deter.
No, it obviously didn't deter, but yeah, so that part really
like struck us. Yeah.
As far as talking about, you know, why especially a lot of
like anthropologists or any other sort of scientific
(04:34):
credentialed person likes to bring up biology for excuses
when it's not just biological like that can help us make sense
of things. So I get why they bring it up,
but it's not the full picture. And I think that I guess I'll
(04:55):
let you say some things before Igo off on like another tangent
cause I've been talking for a while, but.
I want to finish your thought here.
Unless you I. Mean, I was just going to say
that I feel like if you genuinely think you're happy
being polyamorous, then monogamous, that you just really
haven't found somebody that fulfills those needs inside of
(05:17):
you. Because it makes me feel like if
you need more than one person inthat way, then like, you haven't
found somebody that you feel fulfilled with.
Right? Yeah.
And she was talking about how, like, if you're polyamorous, you
can have romantic relationships and connections with multiple
(05:39):
people and it makes you feel more fulfilled.
But I don't think that's necessarily true, right?
Because I feel like then having dated and having had romantic
interests in other people, that would feel fulfilling, but it
never does. Like, and even with men, like
they think that they can just sleep with people because
biologically that's what their biology is telling them to do.
So then when they do it, they still feel like they're missing
(06:01):
that thing, right? Like it doesn't feel truly
fulfilling. Yeah.
And you've been there. And like I've been searching for
a relationship before you came along and you were spreading
your your seed before I came along and.
I'm a gentleman. I don't do no such thing.
And So what I'm trying to say, though, is, is that we were both
(06:22):
in the position where, like, it should have, right?
Yeah, feeling it should have been whatever, But it's not.
And it's because there's that spiritual side of it that
science doesn't take into account and kind of almost
discredits because it's not provable.
Right, even though. Science isn't provable either,
(06:42):
but that's a whole nother. Well, this part kind of science
like pseudoscience, right? Like psychology?
Right, where you're trying to understand the human mind, which
it's like, yeah, we also talked about that when we were talking
about a lot of this is that how do you even know if someone's
telling you the full truth or how they fully feel?
Like how do you even articulate that in a way and how it could
(07:04):
change? It could not change, You know,
that's it's kind of hard to quantify that and be like, this
is the right way. Which and again, like you said,
she started the thing being like, fathers are important.
And in the Congo, they're like the ones that take care of the
baby half of the time, literallyhalf the time.
They do all these things, but you don't really need them at
the end, You know, Like she's like, it doesn't really matter.
(07:26):
And then they go off and start anew family.
But they are animals, right? So it's like, and they're
running off instincts. They don't have the cognitive
ability and the spiritual aspectthat we have as humans because
we don't live like animals. All animals live like animals.
You don't see animals that don'tlive like animals.
There's no animals that are going around that I know of that
(07:48):
are wearing clothes and typing on computers and making things,
things besides primitive tools, right?
And, you know, and, and, and, and having a language where they
have decided how to communicate and how their society will work.
And this is the thing it's like.Octopus cities though, have you
heard about those? No, there's literally like 2
(08:10):
octopus cities or something thatoctopus have constructed.
But octopus are also one of the Octopi are one of the, like,
most intelligent yeah creatures so.
But the biology of it is so, I mean, the question is like, are
we a monogamous, you know, species?
And I think that, you know, she presented some biology of it.
(08:31):
And I think there are like there's the biological
components and then there's the spiritual components on top of
that, what I'll call that. And so biologically, I, I don't
even necessarily agree with her that we're non monogamous.
I, I do, I do think that biologically men are wired to
want to spread their seed to, for genetic diversity, right?
(08:55):
So a man is visually wired like biologically to be attracted to
multiple women and to try and get with multiple women, right.
A woman doesn't have that same biological wiring.
Not that a woman can't find guys, different guys attractive,
but when she has one man, she isgenerally like, not like you see
(09:20):
a guy with a shirt off. You're not like, Oh, I, I, you
know, I need to go over there, right?
Whereas men, they're more Ding, right.
However, women biologically are wired to seek emotional
relationships outside of their relationship in in the sense
(09:41):
that well, but they have to resist that at a spiritual
level, just like, or, you know, whatever.
At a psychological level. You could say, because the proof
of that that's biological. Yeah.
Is is romance novels, romance stories, movies, right?
Women want to have, but I think.Romantic.
They don't have it. I mean, yes.
(10:02):
But. You can say the same thing with
men. If they don't have the
attractive woman that they want,then are they, you know, but I,
I just think that biologically women are, are wired to seek
that, to seek romance, just like, but it's something that
has to be tamed, just like a man's desires have to be tamed.
(10:22):
But I think if you're getting romance in your relationship
that you're not seeking that. Yeah, I I think that, but you
have to make that choice, you know what I'm saying?
It's like, are you because womenare still tempted by romance
stories right now? Again, it's not necessarily in
(10:43):
in a we don't see it in a bad way unless it's excessive,
right? But but women that are happily
married will still want to watchromances, right?
And So what I'm saying is the biological wiring for the
affinity for romance or the attraction towards romance, is
there equivalent to the biological wiring for the the
(11:07):
visual aspect of attraction to men, right?
So it's like men biologically are wired to be attracted to the
physical element, right? Whereas women are biologically
wired to be attracted to the emotional element.
Both of those things as humans and not animals, we have to
control to a degree, or you knowwhat I'm saying?
(11:29):
Like we, we have to live a way that we want to live.
On top of that, we're not just ruled by our our primitive
desires. Well, so we know how men do
that, like not engaging in thosebehaviors, like not searching
for corn on the Internet, not, you know, Googling random women,
like, you know, training themselves to appreciate what
(11:53):
they have. What do you say that women do?
Because I didn't think that you would go the romance way.
Like, I get that women want romance, but I guess like,
obviously the romance novels we've talked about, like, that's
not good. And it's actually going to make
you more unfulfilled in your relationship because you don't
have that. Now you're comparing it.
(12:13):
But what other thing are you saying that women need to tame
and and in terms of that, because it's also like makes me
feel like women should. You're not saying this, but it
makes it sound like women shouldn't want the emotional
romance from their partner, right?
I feel like that's just kind of a.
(12:33):
No, they should want it only from their partner, right?
So it's like maybe it's better to compare, but compared to smut
novels, right, in in a sense that that's a better way to got
the smut now tick, tick tock, book, book talk, love you.
But you know, so, so basically like, if you think of it this
way, right? And, and here's the kind of
world that we live in, right? So as a man, right, our
(12:58):
advertisers and marketers are smart, right?
What's all over the fucking place that you cannot go
somewhere and not see all over the place.
You go to the gym, go to the pool, go to just to your
computer, TV, every like, well, yeah, but scantily clad women,
boobs, butts everywhere, right? Like, I mean, literally think
(13:21):
about how many images of boobs and butts, right?
Or you know, of, of women that every human is exposed to every
single day wherever you go, right?
It's all over social media, it'sall over advertising.
It's all over. Sexualized because like in
Europe they have a lot of like that sort of stuff, but it's not
as like sexualized as I feel like it is here.
(13:45):
I mean they have like topless beaches and stuff there.
Yeah, but it's like, I mean, regardless, it's like, well,
it's that's still indecent, right.
It's so like it's like, I mean, they're trying to be like we are
superior. It's because we don't sexualize.
No, but you still got you. You.
You're telling me that dude is like, oh, but those, those tits,
(14:07):
I don't care. They guys can see them any day.
It's like, no. Yeah, but you can see them any
day, everywhere, in every advertisement.
But, you know, just because you've made a topless speech and
tried to say that it's culturally appropriate, it
doesn't. It's still sexualized, right?
It's like, it's just not explicitly sexualized.
But don't tell me guys are like,oh, I boobs.
I don't care about boobs. No, they don't.
(14:28):
You know what what I'm saying though, is that the images are
everywhere. And so a man has to actively
resist that biology because marketers, advertisers are
smart. They use what's that they know,
right? And women are, are, are also
purposely exploiting that weakness in men, right?
(14:51):
That biological weakness women don't have as much like there's
not romantic smut like in their peripheral all the time, but
they can easily get addicted to smut novels and then have access
to that and and indulge in that right?
(15:11):
Because it it is easy for a woman to become addicted to
those things to romance novels, to smut novels.
Why? Because it's lighting up the
same thing that's lighting up for the man.
It's the only problem is that man is being exposed to this all
the time everywhere. Women aren't typically being
exposed to it all the time, but definitely advertisers are smart
when they they advertise to women in certain ways as well to
like the romance stories and the, you know, to, to, to, to
(15:35):
find that dissatisfaction with your relationship that makes you
want more of this, of how it should be.
You know, the, the fantasy, right?
You see what I'm? Saying that is how it should be.
Well, well, yeah, but but some of the depictions.
I think it's definitely how it should be.
Well I I agree, but you know, but but some of the depictions
(15:55):
are unrealistic. Like aliens?
You know, I'm not even saying aliens, I'm just saying like,
even like. Alien smut novels.
Well, look, yeah, aliens smut novels for sure.
Yeah, but but you get what I'm saying, right?
And so, so you have a biologicalcomponent that is hardwired into
(16:15):
men, right? You have a biological component
that's hard wired into women, different weaknesses that they
have, but both of those things have to be controlled, right?
As a man, what do you do? You don't go and seek that out.
Like you try to shield yourself from the thing.
You don't go and look at it. You don't, you know, you don't
entertain it as a woman, same thing.
Like you just don't indulge yourself into this stuff.
(16:37):
Yeah, you could read 500 romancenovels and get into smut novels
and all all these things, right.And, and you, you choose to not
do that, even though you might be pulled to that, especially if
you start reading them. It's in, you know, it's a, it's
a trap, right? So that's what I would say about
the biology about that. I thought you were going to more
so go that women are biologically inclined to seek
(17:02):
higher status men. That's true as well, right as we
talked about last. Week with them.
They're with the rock star thing, right?
And so, so, so yeah. So I guess that's the other
thing, is that women would have to resist the celebrity or the
rock star, the status. Or a higher status man is what
(17:23):
you're saying than the man that she's with.
Yeah. But I think though, that's
that's where it's kind of a weird thing and maybe it is more
of the psychological component. But like when I coach guys, I'm
always like, no, you're the highest status man this woman's
ever seen in her life because itdoesn't even matter because
you're higher status than a fucking rock star because you're
the fucking man, right? You know what I mean?
Like you have to have that. If you're carrying that swagger
(17:44):
with you everywhere you go, thenyour woman also believes that
because you you have. Because it's what you're
projecting. The confidence, yeah, Like,
until you make it right, yeah. That's true though.
Like as a man, if I believe thatyou could do better than me,
then then you should do better than me.
Like I don't believe you can. Like I'm never gonna believe
(18:05):
that. I'm like, I'm the fucking shit,
right, You know? You are the fucking shit.
But I have to believe that, right?
Otherwise, you know, Otherwise, where am I then?
Then I then does you're susceptible to the biology of
the of the status, but but it doesn't mean that women have to
always go after the highest status man they can and leave
relationships with men that are of and just like a man doesn't
(18:29):
have to be like, Oh, well, that woman's harder than my woman.
So I guess I better go and tradeup like that's, that's not also,
you know, again, we we don't necessarily operate like that.
And and there and again, at the biological level, maybe your
biology might be telling you some of those things that way,
right? But at a psychological level,
you have things like love, right?
(18:52):
Like. Spiritual level is what we said
the spiritual level. And love is saying that, yeah,
that's it's not worth, like whatI'm getting is so much better
than what I could get, you know,like it's, it's not it, it's not
the, you know, there. There's this intangible value
that I'm getting that makes me happy, makes me fulfilled.
(19:13):
Right, right. Yeah.
I mean, we're not just strictly biological beings.
Right, and that's what everyone gets wrong.
Talking about anything, especially relationships in a
biological way, almost strictly biological way, makes zero sense
because it's not biological at all.
(19:33):
Like, I mean, it is to some degree, but I feel like really
when you're I guess that's The thing is even last episode in
this episode, you keep saying all these things like, no, you
have to make a choice, but I feel like I'm not choosing.
It's just what I know to be right.
And so when you're like, oh, like you have to choose to not
(19:56):
want to be with a higher status,man, I'm like, that's not even
like. In my mind, it's not even feels
like in my biology at this pointbecause the spiritual part and
the like, knowing that you and Iare meant to be together, which
probably sounds woo woo to a lotof people, but I don't even care
(20:17):
because it's like when you feel it, you know?
Exactly, Yeah. And so and it can't be explained
through biology. It's not that you, I don't know,
it's not like the things that you did biologically, it's that
connection that you and I have. Like, yes, it is like you don't
do the things that you talked about, like you don't stare at
(20:39):
women or you're not going to leave me for like a hotter
person and I'm not going to leave you.
But like those things don't evenpop up on the radar, if that
makes sense, because that spiritual part of it that a lot
of people talking about relationships gets discarded or
like other like fears get thrownin And it's like, you know,
(21:01):
people are like, don't have joint bank accounts with your
husband or wife. Like what?
Like that's just fear. Like, and I get where the fear
stems from and I get that we want to make sense of things in
life with biology. So we can be like, no, this is
the exact way you do this, but you can't really do that.
And I know we're sitting here and we're trying to do the best
(21:22):
that we can to help people get to where you and I are.
And you can, I think you can do that.
There's not a step by step guidewe can give people.
We can just talk about what we're doing and what's worked
for us and where we're at. And people might not believe
that we're in the place that we're at, but we are.
And so if you do believe it and you do want it, you can listen
(21:44):
to what we're saying and put that into action for yourself.
Or, I don't know, stick to the biology if you want, but that's
not going to give you the full picture, right?
Yeah, You can't use biology as the excuse and be like, this is
just how we're wired or how things are supposed to be just
like, because because we live. Well, that's what I was talking
about too, is we live in an artificial world, right?
(22:06):
So in the natural world before, you know, there wasn't fast food
and there wasn't refined sugar, right.
And so in that natural world, ifyou just ate how you felt as a
human instinctually, based on your biology, you'd probably do
pretty good, probably eat the right stuff, probably wouldn't
get fat, probably wouldn't get heart disease, right.
Probably be OK that we also livein an artificial world of butts
(22:30):
and boobs, right? And so you can't you can't fast
food it like, you know, like youstill have to constrain
yourself. We live in a world where every
indulgence is available to us from a biological craving.
There are plenty of smut novels.There are plenty of things that
women can get caught up in or orvalidation she can get from
Dming rock stars on Instagram and their response respond back
(22:55):
right. But you don't just go after all
those things because is an artificial world.
You can't go by just on your, your instinct or feelings,
right? But but to the point that you're
saying when you have a relationship like we do, that is
that is so deep on that psychological, spiritual level,
then those biological urges, youcan't even hear them anymore.
(23:19):
They're still there cuz we're inand it's in our biology.
But we can't we're, we're not viewing them.
We're not hearing them. They don't they're.
They are muted. They're muted that that's,
that's the thing about it. And so that's, that's what's
possible is to have those thingsbe muted, right?
And so you're not subject to your body just like if someone
is like, you know, when someone's like, oh, I'm
(23:41):
overweight because it's, it's genetic.
I'm, I'm hungry all the time. And I like, I just have to eat
this. Like, yeah, you have a biology
that's driving you for hunger, right?
And, and maybe yours is more than, than other people, but the
reason why you're 500 lbs is because you're eating McDonald's
three times a day. Like, it's like you're, you're
making choices. Yeah, you could be hungry and
(24:02):
eat food, but the choices that you're making are causing your
result. You're not just subject to your
biology, you know what I'm saying?
People don't want it to be theirfault, right?
They want to blame it on something, something that's out
of their control, right? And I think even with
relationships, right, they want to blame being attracted to
somebody else or doing somethinglike that or being addicted to
(24:23):
smut novels or, I don't know, whatever it is on something
else. That it doesn't have to be their
choice, like it doesn't have to be their fault.
Right, right. But like you said, it is your
choice, right? And it is your responsibility to
cultivate the relationship that you want, not just be like,
well, biologically men are gonnastare at women and so as a
(24:47):
society, we should be fine with that, or biologically, women are
gonna want to seek out romance. So you just have to deal with it
and whatever. Because I feel like if you give
in to those things and plenty ofpeople do, right?
Women become disinterested in sex with a man that is sex
craved for other people, not hiswife.
(25:08):
And men become less romantic when their wife is obsessed with
romance novels or romance moviesare like getting that fix from
somewhere else. And so that has become
normalized rather than, you know, harnessing the spiritual
part. And it's also like validated in
a way by biology being like or science being like, well, this
(25:32):
is how we're biologically wired.Like, it's fine.
Like, how many times have you heard the excuse that men
seeking out women in multiple ways is just their biology,
right? So many times.
Oh yeah, yeah. Well, it's like, OK, do you
shave your armpits? No.
Yes, you do. You like them?
(25:53):
I mean, but what I'm saying is that biologically you have hair
that grows under your arms. Yeah.
So no one makes an argument. I mean, some people do make the
argument, but as a society we'renot like, I mean, it's just
biology was like, why would we not?
Some people do. I mean, some people do, but what
I'm saying is that it's like, you shave your legs, you shave
(26:15):
your armpits as a woman, right? It's like, yeah, the biology is
other than that, but we don't ever make the argument like it's
ridiculous to shave your armpitsbecause that's the biology.
It's the same, That's the same argument that I hear when people
are like, oh, it's ridiculous toto to like expect men to be
faithful or to not look because it's biology.
(26:35):
I was like, yeah, but we don't do everything according to
biology. That's my whole point.
It's like if we did everything according to biology, then we
would just be animals and we just do whatever the fuck we
want. And then, I mean, he got angry
and he killed someone. So I mean, it's biology, right?
It's like, why are you going to throw him in prison?
Like, it's that's just what happens.
Like you get angry, you kill people, you know, or, you know,
hit them. That's just biology, right?
(26:55):
It's like you we can't use that's just biology for any
other excuse for any other part of society.
We never excuse criminals because of criminals because
it's biology, right? We don't like not wear clothes
and shit in our yards because it's biology.
Like we do other things that areagainst the quote biology
(27:17):
because it's better, because we're evolved, because we're
humans, because we have a higherlevel of thinking, not the
animal brain that, you know, we have a a cerebral cortex that's
on top of the animal brain. That's where we have our
willpower and our decision making.
That and our language abilities that sit above it, which is
that's the spiritual, the higherlevel, right, Right.
(27:38):
And so that's why like it's sucha stupid argument of, yeah,
we're not monogamous because it's our biology.
I disagree that that's even the case in the biology because part
of biology is mate guarding, right?
So, and we are biologically wired to be extremely jealous
when someone tries to take our our mate.
So if you're monogamous, why would you care, right?
(28:01):
You know, except for paternity, right?
I mean, yeah, if you're non monogamous, why would you care
Exactly. Yeah, the paternity aspect of
the gene of genetics are, I get that part.
But like, why does it matter if you're non if you're
biologically not? There must be some monogamous
element of our biology in order to have that reaction.
(28:23):
Honestly, I feel like it, the polyamorous being our natural
biological way was invented by aman, I would think, in order to
promote men going out and being able to do more things because I
do. I'm not saying that there aren't
any polyamorous women, but womenI feel like are biologically
(28:48):
geared more towards relationships and it's like
that's where they feel most likeconnected and loved.
And again, it goes back to the spiritual part of like loved,
like women are way more likely to be happy with one man that
they love and they care about intheir respect.
But a man could love and care about and respect his woman and
(29:11):
still cheat on her. So it's like, in that sense,
like I don't think it's all biology because again, women,
there are women that are in polyamorous relationships or
whatever. But like you said, I think
though that men and women are yin and Yang like we've talked
(29:32):
about before, and you need 2 halves to make a whole.
That's two people. That's not four or five or
whatever. You can't make a yin and Yang
with that many people. You can make separate ones, but
it's like 2 halves make the whole in this sense in a
relationship. And it doesn't have to be just a
heterosexual relationship, but it's, to me, it just doesn't
(29:57):
really make sense to have these other outlying pieces.
Yeah. Because you're not going to have
a whole. You're not going to create a new
unit. Yeah.
And you can create, like a family unit, right?
Can have multiple people. But really at the core of that
is still the parents, right. Yeah.
So just in my mind when she was talking about it, it more so
(30:19):
seems like someone somewhere. Use.
The science to like promote thisnew age way of like, no, we
don't have to live just to a couple.
It can be one person with multiple wives or and you've
seen that in other religions or countries and things like that,
they have multiple wives. But not once have I seen that
(30:41):
where people seem actually happier.
And in that podcast, she said they are happier.
And I don't believe that. I feel like you more so see the
happiest people, which are people who genuinely found their
soul mate or someone they want to spend the rest of their lives
with, and they do that and they're happy the entire time.
When I mean, there's a biological like history or
(31:04):
reason for like the polygamous relationships that that is under
under certain circumstances, there's like there's a lot of
biology that is under certain circumstances, right?
So back in the day, right, when a lot of men were killed in
warfare and there was a high amount of women to men ratio and
(31:27):
women were not working and sustaining themselves like and,
and, and not even just from a political standpoint, right?
Like we have to remember that it's not that women were
suppressed necessarily, it's that we didn't have the
technological advancement where where like, like where you could
(31:48):
sustain yourself without having one person dedicated to taking
care of the household and kick cooking and taking care of the
children and another person going out and hunting and
killing. And you know what I mean?
Like that, Like now we have a, we go to the supermarket, we get
meat. We, you know, we we can do desk
jobs and make money. And so.
So there was an element of that,right.
And so women couldn't just survive on their own back in
(32:10):
that at that time. Yeah.
Now women could survive on theirown.
That's fine, right. But back then in our history,
women couldn't survive on their own, right?
They needed a man, right? As, and if a man had a lot of
resources, then multiple women, that man kind of was under a
duty or obligation to take care of multiple women.
(32:31):
But also those relationships were more about a, a, like a, a
survival type of relationship, right?
And so there's a biological component where where a man
could, you know, could take careof and, and, and have multiple
women and women would be accepting of that situation.
We can even see it now, like we were talking about last episode
(32:52):
with rock stars, like a woman will share, a lot of women will
share a man that's high enough value, that has enough status
and resources because it's biologically, but a man would
never do that, right, Because there's a biological difference,
you know, however, it doesn't point to non monogamy as a
default. It it points to it that under
certain circumstances, we are wired in such a way that we're
we're in order for the population to right but.
(33:15):
We're wired for survival, not for monogamy, right, Right.
And so if you're going to make that argument, then it's we're
just wired to survive. Yeah, and that's a lot of like
the root biology is wired to survive.
There's a really good book called Sperm Wars that talks
about the evolutionary biology and sexuality and it and there's
(33:36):
a lot of evolutionary adaptations that have occurred,
such as like the shape of the penis as a shovel to shovel out.
A shovel. Yeah, like to shovel out other
sperm from other competitors. When was this?
When did this happen? Yeah.
(33:56):
I mean, this is how it's. Now shaped like a shovel.
Yeah, the head, like it's not like a full shuffle.
I guess I'm like literally imagining, you know, those like
sharks that have kind of like a shovel shaped head, Like it's
not a hammerhead shark. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They have like a shovel shaped head.
Yeah, it's not quite, you know. I wouldn't call it a shovel, but
I can see what you're saying. But it serves that purpose it.
(34:18):
Serves that well. What did it look like before?
No, no, that's what it. I like that.
It's always. Been for humans you know like
yeah but I mean different, you know dogs are like, you know
there's like different our horses it's like I.
Think it looks more like a mushroom.
Huh. Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, I know it is, but.A shovel.
Serves the purpose of literally.Thinking about a shovel that's
(34:41):
that sounds really painful. Yeah, but it but it but it it
there's certain. Sorry, I yeah, distracted.
You're distracting me now. So but, but yeah, but I mean
there's different things that that occur and even in terms of
ovulation and and and and women's, you know, are more
likely to orgasm with a man they're cheating with.
(35:05):
Then the you know, which the reason biologically for that is
because it's for genetic diversity is because if she is
pursuing a short term rendezvouswith a higher genetic potential
mate as opposed to the provider mate, then orgasm actually
(35:30):
increases the likelihood of conception.
And so that's why that happened.Also, when a man cheats, his
sperm count is higher with the woman that he cheats with, which
again these are biological mechanisms.
So that again, it doesn't it doesn't because it's going to
(35:55):
sound like OK, that sounds pretty non monogamous.
It's like. You're proving the point.
But what it what it it OK, so biologically I don't think we're
non monogamous, but biologicallyare we wired to cheat?
Yes, like that is in our biology.
Again, we, that doesn't mean we do it right, just like we're
(36:15):
biologically wired that when we get angry, we get violent, but
we don't doesn't mean that we doit right.
But what I'm saying is that that's how you know, that's how
these things have evolved, right?
These are real facts about humanreproduction like sperm volume
and and stuff is measured in in those those situations and.
You think we're biologically programmed to cheat just to
(36:39):
reproduce and populate the world?
Because it doesn't sound like really it's for.
I mean, it just sounds like for reproduction.
For genetic advantage, yeah, right.
So it's just. Like, do you get married just to
genetically reproduce? Are you polyamorous just to
genetically reproduce? Well, that's The thing is like.
(37:01):
Yeah, there's there's. They're using biology.
But yes, a lot of people get married to have children and
create a family. But it's like monogamous people
don't typically go down that. I mean, polyamorous people don't
typically go down that road to be like, no, I'm gonna start a
family with all these people. But the the wiring.
(37:23):
Way back in the day when they were just trying to survive.
Right, but the Wang is there right.
There's another good book calledMean mean genes, right?
Or the OR actually there's there's one called I think mean
the the selfish gene, right. I think that's Dawkins, but it
talks about how the gene, your genetics are just trying to
(37:43):
replicate itself. And there's a lot of studies and
you know, there's different pieces of this where you
depending on your genetic relation to someone like a
cousin or something like that. Then like there's, that's where
they think that the, the idea oflike compromising or working
together came from is like, OK, well, if I can't pass on my
(38:04):
genes, I, like my cousin has some of my genes.
So I'm willing to sacrifice myself in order for my cousin to
survive in order to pass on someof our genetic material.
So like it's, it's like the, thegenes are hijacking your, your,
your brain, your system, like bydefault, but you as a human
obviously override those things to a degree, right?
So. Well, yeah.
(38:26):
And I think too, it's like you can't go strictly based on your
biology because then every womanshould have kids, right?
That's what we're right. We have all these parts for,
right? Like that's biologically what
we're supposed to do, right? And as many as.
Possible women now don't even want to have any kids at all so
(38:47):
it's like you can't again I guess it just feels like cherry
picking things to promote a certain narrative and it's
harmful. I think to use biology to
support these things when especially relationships is not
strictly biology. Exactly.
There's a social construct there's tons of.
(39:07):
Parents too that don't connect with their kid the way that they
biologically should. Like there's so many outliers
even with this biological science that they're bringing in
to support their claims that again, I feel like it's harmful
to like to try to include polyamory so that it doesn't
(39:31):
feel like an outlier while diminishing monogamy, if that
makes sense. Like honestly, how I feel is
people can do whatever they wantto do, but to promote that
they're happier with multiple partners.
There's just a part of me that genuinely doesn't believe that.
Like if for this part of their life, they want to be
(39:54):
polyamorous and they're enjoyingthat, I believe that.
I believe that they can be in that stage of their life.
But having again having like dated and tried to find like the
person and like dated around until you came along, none.
Of even those other relationships or any part of
(40:16):
that was better than being with you.
And so again, I just feel like it's harmful to be like, well,
biologically we're not monogamous.
And so these people are happier.Like are they happier?
I think they're also trying to promote their situation that
they're in and like, maybe people think that that's what
we're doing. But again, I think if you go
back to see older couples that have been together for a really
(40:39):
long time or couples just in general where you can tell they
genuinely love each other and they love being with each other,
you can tell that they're happier.
Right. Exactly.
Yeah. And so they don't even have to
sit here and tell you on a podcast like this, you can
experience it. And I feel like people who are
in our lives have experienced it, right?
So I don't know, I just, I don'treally like the whole pushing a
(41:02):
narrative and then trying to back it up with biology when
there's plenty of outliers to biology.
And like you said, there's plenty of things that we should
be fighting biology on because we shouldn't be going around
acting like a bunch of crazy animals, right?
That, you know, it's actually more harmful to try to use
(41:23):
science to get people to believeit in order to push this other
narrative that isn't even reallybacked up by anything.
Just because it's biological, the OR natural doesn't mean it's
good. That's the thing that you know,
because it's like, I mean even even animal, even dogs, right?
(41:44):
We're not like, I mean, don't train the dog.
That's against the biology. Like just let it do whatever it
wants, shit wherever it wants, piss wherever it wants.
We wouldn't even have them inside if right.
Yeah, that's not part of their normal nature.
Right. So we like train a dog, right?
Dog behaves. We, we give the dog command like
we're, we're resisting the natural biology, right?
But there's also a part of the natural biology that makes a dog
(42:05):
trainable, right? So, so, but, but what I'm saying
is that we, we don't just acceptthat in humans, we don't accept
that in dogs. So we're just going to accept
that in humans and use as an excuse.
It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.
It's important to understand to some degree the biology so you
can understand what you're dealing with, right?
And what things that you have toovercome potentially, right?
(42:28):
And, and what also your partner might struggle with, right?
Because it's different struggle.Like I said, it's a woman needs
to understand that she's not biologically wired the same as a
man because she doesn't understand why it is why it is
more difficult for a man to be, you know, let you know to be not
distracted by, you know, women in butts and boobs, right where,
(42:50):
because she doesn't have any problem with that.
So she's like, well, he must just be a piece of shit.
Well, the same thing a man needsto understand why women are
biologically wired to, you know,to seek out high status men or
to seek romance, you know, you know, and that and that kind of
thing, because otherwise he doesn't understand the the
struggle of that, right? You know what I'm saying?
So it's those things are good toknow, but it doesn't excuse the
(43:14):
behavior And it doesn't mean that we are subject only to our
biology and that we shouldn't judge people because they're
like, OK, well, it's just the biology.
It's just, you know, because that's that's not not not true,
right? And that's.
The yeah, no, I agree with you. It is not like it's not good
information to have. I just feel like it's bad when
you act like that's the only information you need, right?
(43:34):
That's my problem is like that'snot the only information you
need. And honestly, even us doing our
podcast, it's like we will we ever be able to like fully
explain it or will we ever be able to like give everyone all
the keys, all the steps? No, but it's like we have
cracked a lot of the code, including I feel like this, but
(43:58):
relationships are one of those things.
Like you said, how do you even scientifically quantify a
relationship? Like you really can't because
you can't really tell what someone's thinking.
They can tell you. You can hope they're telling the
truth. You can give them a lie detector
or something. But even then, does a lie
detector actually work? Who knows?
(44:19):
So it's like you have to just find couples and people that you
trust and trust that are tellingyou the truth and trust that
want to help you and trust that they're experiencing this
happiness that they want you to experience.
Rather than listening to some scientists be like, yeah, well,
(44:41):
you know, polyamorous people arereally the happiest because then
they're just spreading their love to everybody.
It's like, OK, but like, as a person, you should be spreading
your love to people, but that doesn't mean you're romantic
love you. You don't have to have multiple
romantic partners to be happier,Right?
Yeah. And so I guess that's my whole
(45:01):
spiel on it. Yeah.
Kind of like, I don't know what else I would add, but it just
bothered me that it was so blackand white when relationships are
the furthest thing from black and white.
It's Yeah. Well, it's.
A pull and there's a contradiction there too, which
is like, again, I don't care which side of the coin you fall
on, but contradictions I don't like right.
(45:23):
So it's like if you're like, OK,well, biology says this so that
I I didn't say it. It's like we're not a monogamous
biology biology. So that's how we should really
be. Well, OK, that if that same
person is like, whoa, homosexuality is, is biological
and it's perfectly normal, then it's like, well, but but this
doesn't fit in this. So like, you know, like, I'm OK
(45:47):
with that if that like if that'swhat a person wants to choose.
But you can't use the argument of biology.
You see what I'm saying? Because that's not biologically
natural. It doesn't work that way.
That's not how worldwide we can't reproduce through a
homosexual relationship. Our species is not created in
that way. If moral judgements aside, that
doesn't matter. I'm not trying to make a moral
judgement. You can do whatever you want as
(46:07):
a as a human being, I don't care.
But what I'm saying is if you'retrying to use a biological
argument, but you're trying to have it both ways that that I
can't stand. Like you got to pick one.
Say that it's not biological like it's what we're saying.
It's not strictly, no. One would argue that that
homosexual relationships reproduce right.
(46:27):
No one to argue that like you know what I'm saying?
Like it doesn't, doesn't make. Sense the point that it's not
based all on biology, right? But.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like if you want to say
it's all based on biology, then you have to by default be
against homosexual relationshipsbecause you would say, well,
that's not compatible with the biology.
What I'm saying is that it's notall based on biology.
There's another component that'shigher than that, right.
(46:49):
And that's why Exactly. Right.
So and that then that's The thing is like you just can't be
in contradiction. You have to choose what what
level you're living at. If you're living at just
biology, then let's let your dogdo whatever.
Don't train your dog right. And you know, and, and you
probably run around naked as a human.
That's your biology. But I think people that are
genuinely in happy, good relationships know that it's a
(47:12):
spiritual element because you can feel it when you're in that
sort of relationship. You can feel it.
And this lady, I think she's married and she had a kid or
something. I think even maybe she
understands that. But then when you are a
scientist and you can't back that up with science, what do
you preach? You're going to preach your
science so that you have credibility in your career
(47:34):
rather than things that can't beproven that people can be
skeptical of. But I think everybody knows who
have been in love, like really been in love, that it's a
spiritual. It's not just biological.
Like, it's not just like you smell good.
Like, yes, there is some of that, like, component
(47:55):
attraction. Yeah.
But it's not just like, I smelled him.
I like the smell. He is mine now.
Like, it's not caveman status. And even caveman people probably
didn't use just biology. They used, they didn't even know
what biology was right? You know, they met a nice other
cave woman and they were like, let's make babies and then, you
know, whatever. But like you said, or they
(48:16):
formed like a team where the caveman went hunting and then
she stayed at home and took careof the kids and he would come
back and like made sure that he still had his woman and like
she's not having babies with somebody else or you know what I
mean? So like it's more layers and
it's always been more layers andit always will be more layers
than just biology. Like, yes, you can use biology
(48:37):
to make sense of some of the urges and desires that you might
have, but that doesn't mean thatjust because it's biological
that it's right or like what youshould do or, you know, I mean,
that's like just doesn't, it doesn't make a lot of sense when
you talk about something as intricate as relationships to be
(49:00):
like, well, this is what biologysays.
So and then leave it at that. Like she didn't really talk at
all about the spiritual part. It was strictly.
And I mean again. I think it's because she's an
anthropologist. She doesn't want to lose her
credibility, so she goes more scientific.
But then again, she didn't even really talk about like the
studies that these things came from either.
So again, it's hard to, it's just like, again, I feel like it
(49:26):
was more damaging two relationships than what she even
intended because like you said, she started it talking about how
important it was for fathers to be in their children's lives.
And then by the end, it was like, well, you don't really
need men. Yeah, you know, these are.
(49:47):
He was kind of caught her in a trap because she was like, Oh,
well, like, yeah, because what she said didn't make sense.
Right. So it's like, and I think
because we're trying to like include all these different
things again, like, I don't carewhat people do.
That's not my life. It's not my problem.
(50:07):
But I think it is harmful when you try to include every single
thing in what you're talking about, because then you just
confuse people. Because some things are better
than other things, right? And that happens like you.
Have whatever you want. You can have whatever situation
that you want in life, but you can't act like they're all
equally as good. Because.
We know multiple like people outthere probably have
(50:32):
relationships that aren't that great.
Like we don't know anybody personally that I can think of
that has like a bad relationship, but it's like,
but. You know what I mean?
Like there's, we won't, but we won't call them out.
There's some people that, you know, aren't in a happy
relationship, right? Yeah.
And then there are people that are in a really happy
(50:53):
relationship. And then, you know, there might
be some polyamorous people who are happy, but are they really
happy? Are they like, what level are
they? You can't quantify that in a way
that biology will give you a setanswer.
Yeah, You know what I mean? Like, that's not biological to
even. Yeah.
(51:13):
Conduct that as a study because how do you really know?
Like. And I guess I, I mean this in a
way of like, before I met you, there are people I could have
been with that I could have had a happy life.
Sure. Yeah.
And that time, because I didn't know what you and I could have,
it could have seen like the top,right?
(51:34):
But then when you came along, I was like, nothing else will ever
compare. I still feel that way, nothing
else. And I know that for sure.
I don't have to go searching forit.
I'm like 100% certain, right. So people could still be, they
could be taking these studies and they're still in this other
area where they genuinely believe that they're at the top
of what they could have, right. Exactly.
But they don't even know that they're not but.
(51:55):
They don't know exactly, yeah. Yeah.
And so that's why it's just so harmful, in my opinion, to be
like, this is the science when it's not science you can even
understand, because I didn't even understand that I could be
this happy in a relationship andhave this sort of relationship
until you came along and we had it, right.
So like, you can't sit here and tell me that polyamorous people
(52:17):
are happier when you can't even really quantify because you
don't know where the person's at, you don't know where they're
at and their happiness level of the potential they have.
They're like, I don't like mangoes.
And they're like, what? Have you ever had a Costa Rican
mango? And they're like, no, but I
don't like it. Like, yeah, but if you had a
Costa Rican mango, you wouldn't say that, right?
(52:38):
Yeah. You just like.
Maybe you haven't gotten there. Yeah, exactly so.
And I think it's better to say things like maybe I haven't met
the right person yet, rather than be like you're better,
you're happier if you're polyamorous.
You know what I mean? All the good things we do that
we consider good are things thatare against our biology, by the
way, right? Like, you know, our biology is
(52:59):
like, be lazy. That's not a good thing.
Our biology is eat whatever you want.
That's not a good thing. Like we have we we admire
discipline as a good thing, right?
Our biology is, you know, say whatever you want, right?
You know, like whatever, be emotional, whatever I was like,
but we do not consider those to be good things.
So everything, you know, so you could make the argument that
(53:20):
we're non monogamous, that we have some non monogamous
tendencies by our biology. I could, I could, right?
Like we talked about some of those, but that doesn't make it
a good thing. Right, it doesn't make it the
right thing, right? Like doesn't make it the path
that we should go down. Everything else that is, you
know, that we consider to be good discipline, self respect
and, you know, control, self-control and all these
(53:43):
things. We consider those to be good
things which are against we consider them to be good because
they're against our biology, Youknow, so that's that's the the
thing about it is that and. I'm not saying that science is
bad, I just want to put that outthere.
I'm not saying that science is bad.
I won't say how I actually feel about science, but I don't feel
(54:03):
like it's bad. I feel like it has done a lot of
good things for us as humans andit will continue as well.
But I think when you're talking about something as spiritual as
relationships, any relationship,right, it cannot be explained
with science. No, you can't.
Yeah. There's.
No way. We don't operate at that level.
(54:24):
We operate at a societal level, at a higher level of of of
consciousness. I mean, that's that's The thing
is like if you look at the wholelevels of consciousness, right,
The like science is actually at level 500 with that.
What is the the chart called levels of consciousness.
Trying to remember the author's name and I can't remember is, is
(54:45):
Steven? I don't know.
I don't know. I know what.
Book you're talking about, but Ican't remember the title or the
author. Yeah, there we go.
Can't remember that. The author.
We'll we'll see. I mean, when AI makes the show
notes, I think it will it'll know you know the guy levels of
consciousness. You got it there.
Go grok. You can do it.
(55:06):
Yeah, we'll see. But but the but the idea is like
science caps out at level 500 I think and then above that is
like love, which is at like 600 and then like.
I didn't even know science was on there.
It is, yeah. It's it's, I think it's reason
is what Yeah. But but above that, there's
higher levels of consciousness that are beyond just the reason
(55:27):
logic, science level, Right, right.
And if you just go to that level, yeah, you can accomplish
a lot of things of a lot as a human being.
But beyond that is where the true, you know, the true spirit.
When you realized you were everything and nothing.
Yes, the void, the Enlightenmentlevel, right.
But but yeah, so yeah, I think that's.
(55:51):
I mean, I feel better expressingmy truth.
Yeah, yeah, there was something else that I think is I just want
to remember about the. Yeah, because, yeah, because
there's a lot of components of it where I think the biggest
thing is that just people, they use the biology as the argument,
but they don't think about the higher level about it.
(56:12):
But I think it's just to push their agenda.
Honestly. I think whenever the science
part is used in relation to anything that involves spiritual
aspects as well, it's just to push their narrative.
That's how I feel. And like maybe people think that
I'm pushing our narrative. They can believe what they want,
(56:33):
but I think we've made a pretty logical as well as spiritual
explanation for why you can't just go based off of biology
when you're using something thatincorporates many and maybe even
more things than even spirituality.
Spirituality. And biology together, you know
(56:55):
what I mean? Like it's, it's a bunch of
different components. Cuz again, you have to think
logically. It's not even just biologically.
You have to think logically whenyou're picking a partner.
You have to think spiritually, You know, you like, you have to
think about so many different things.
So, yeah. And what traits do we desire,
like, in our relationships, in our interactions with humans,
(57:15):
right? Even with, you know, like a dog,
dogs instinct is to dig. We have to train a dog against
its instinct to dig because we don't want it digging up
everything, right? We don't want it chewing up the
couch and all the stuff. And so we train specifically
against it. And it's the same thing as
humans. We train out the things that are
undesirable. Also, like if a dog is
(57:38):
domesticated, it doesn't have todig like it doesn't have to, you
know, scrounge for food. It doesn't have to do those
things. So you teach it that it's safe.
And again, in relationships, it's like you don't have to as a
woman search, read all these romance books.
If your partner's giving that toyou, it's safe.
It's safe to trust that he's going to provide that for you.
(57:59):
And vice versa with men. It's like that's how it should
be viewed rather than, you know,pushing.
Again, I feel like I just feel like it's pushing a narrative,
right? And that whole episode was kind
of actually confusing because itwas pushing multiple narratives
to try to include all the narratives.
Right, Yeah, all the check, all the boxes.
Saying even to not include people like.
(58:22):
No, no, but it's like. The thing, though, is, is when
you get to a point where you're trying to include everyone, you
muddle your own message a lot ofthe time.
Yeah. And so that's where I'm coming.
And also it wasn't very credibleseeming because there wasn't
even studies or no, you know, she didn't even talk about how
they're actually measuring that they're happier, like I
(58:43):
mentioned, or any of those things.
Right. And especially I feel like men
listening to those things might think that oh, I can go do
whatever I want, you know, cuz they think more logically, not
emotionally. Women might listen to that and
be like, that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
The emotional part is missing. Like, you know, it's not just do
(59:07):
this cuz I'm a human. It's like that.
That's we all have emotions. Men have emotions, women have
emotions. We're not just biology brain,
right, either. So it's like you can't explain
this in that way. Yeah, when that's not even who
we are as a whole, but who can even know who we are as a whole
because it's such a vast thing. And it's also there's also kind
(59:31):
of a component of, of happiness,you could say versus
fulfillment, which is more meat,like we don't always just chase
happiness. We don't always chase things
that make us feel good in the moment, right?
We delay gratification for long term success for things that are
fulfilling to us. Or the same thing I could say,
(59:51):
you know, about the food, like we don't just eat everything we
want to, right, because it will cause us harm.
But will you could say, well, you're happier if you just eat
whatever you want? For the short term, yeah.
But in the long term, you don't end up being, that would be
you're not fulfilled. You feel like crap, like you
don't feel good. So, you know, it's like you're
(01:00:12):
happier in those moments. And sure, if you indulge in all
of your, you know, yeah. Then yeah, you're going to,
you're going to have momentary happiness that exceeds the
happiness of of the base level of people who don't do that, who
are disciplined and do things that are hard, that they don't
necessarily want to do or, you know, control themselves.
But you're definitely not going to be as fulfilled.
(01:00:33):
I feel like when you feed 1, youharm the other one.
Yeah. If you feed your biological
urges, you harm your spiritual urges and things that you want
and vice versa. Like sometimes when you fulfill
your spiritual one, you're harming something else in
return, you know? So it's a, it's a trade off.
Like you can't make a choice without some sort of
(01:00:57):
consequence. Yeah, and you have to figure out
what choices you want to make. And that's why thinking about
those things and like thinking about relationships in general
is not something that should be taken lightly, right?
It involves a lot of things. And so again, I guess that's why
it bothers me with like this is the cookie cutter way of the to
(01:01:20):
happiness and relationships. Like no, like it's way more
complicated. Yeah, yeah.
So. All right.
I think we're at the end of it, yeah.
Put it all out there. And we still got nothing, you
know, going to. Keep it that way.
So we'll keep it that way, yes. Yeah.
(01:01:42):
Come, come follow us on. Come follow us.
Yes. You know, join the cult.
On our journey. But go check out that.
Probably episode did seem a little like woo woo.
I mean, it is a little, we're a little woo woo so, but it's OK,
we we get to be a little woo wooso but yeah.
(01:02:02):
Follow us on better than perfectpod.com.
Subscribe to the website. Social Medias.
Social media. Like and subscribe Yeah share
with your friends. Leave a leave a review, you
know, do all the things. Seeing us in e-mail.
Yeah. Talk to us.
Yeah, and if you're in San Diegoand you want to be on the
podcast. Let us know.
Yeah. And you got some kind of act or
(01:02:24):
something like that Act a good one.
Yeah, Bring. Your.
Talent Talent Show if you want to audition for the podcast.
Right, he's kidding. I'm not the like you got to you
just we're just going to let anyYahoo on here.
No, but you don't have to audition.
You just have to you. Got to impress us.
At least you got to be like, OK.Yeah, we're not super hard to
impress. I'm trying to sell it.
(01:02:46):
Like, what did we just talk about?
About people don't want stuff that is easy, right?
You're ruining. It's like we are hard to
impress. It's very freaking hard to get
on this show. John's like making it hard and
I'm like, you're going to scare them.
No one's going to reach out because they're going to be
scared. They're like this question isn't
good enough. That's right, yeah.
You got to bring your A game. You've.
(01:03:07):
Heard John. That's it.
All right. We'll see you next week.
Take care. Bye.
Honestly, how I feel is people can do whatever they want to do,
but to promote that they're happier with multiple partners,
right? There's just a part of me that
genuinely doesn't believe that. Like if for this part of their
life they want to be polyamorousand they're enjoying that, I
believe that. But having dated and tried to
find the person and dated arounduntil you came along, none of
(00:23):
even those other relationships or any part of that was better
than being with you. Again, I just feel like it's
harmful to be like, well, biologically we're not
monogamous and so these people are happier.
Like are they happier beyond? The perfect we discovered
through our flaws we complete each other.
Better than perfect we stay through every fault we find.
(00:48):
No way. Welcome back to the Better Than
Perfect podcast where every weekwe share with you how 2
imperfect people helping each other grow equals 1 better than
perfect relationship. That's.
Right. Yeah.
And the last, last week we were talking about rock stars.
Yeah. This week it's not as.
I mean, it's still pretty exciting, you know, biology,
(01:11):
right? Science.
Do you do? Bill Nye the Science guy.
Are we are? Are we a monogamous species?
Human beings. Yeah.
Are we biologically monogamous? Yeah.
Or polyamorous, as a lot of people say.
Yeah, we we listened to a podcast where.
It was the Diary of the CEO podcast and it was, I forget who
(01:36):
the guest was. It was a woman anthropologist
though, yeah. Socially Anthropologist.
And she was talking about like, fatherhood and love, but it was
mostly about fatherhood really, I feel like.
Yeah, yeah, I think it was. And why fathers are important
and things like that. But there was a tidbit in there.
(01:56):
Why fathers are important? Why?
Why? They're also unnecessary.
So that was the weird thing about the they're like, Oh yeah,
No 2, two women could be fathers, but fathers are
important. But.
Or two men can have the same effect as.
The mother. So it's like, why do we need
women? But why do we need men?
Why do we need anyone? We don't.
That's what AI wants us to believe because it's going to
(02:17):
take over. But anyway, go watch the AI
episode if you want to get more into that one part that really
stood out when she was talking about how polyamorous couples
like that's actually the biological way we're wired or
like. Same level, yeah, same level of
(02:37):
satisfaction between monogamous couples and and polyamorous.
Yeah. And we both like paused it and I
was like, wait a minute. And like we paused it because
one, obviously we don't agree with that.
But John actually brought up thepoint that I was thinking the
same thing is that when people talk about biologically, we're
(03:04):
not meant to be monogamous or even in my opinion,
biologically, like men are programmed to spread their seed
or you just mentioned before we started this episode,
biologically women are going to seek out the highest value man.
Like those things might be true,right?
But what we came to the agreement is, is that we don't
(03:26):
operate our lives from strictly biological right standards.
We're not. So animal, we're not just
animals, right? We have a spiritual ass.
Crazy, right? Yeah, like we don't just, you
know, we have cerebral literallyrun away when we're scared or
something. I mean, maybe if something's
chasing you. And that's what makes sense.
We don't just shit and pee wherever we want like like an
(03:48):
animal. Like we learned to become potty
trained. John didn't have to do an
elaborate dance in order for me to be like, ah, I want to mate
with him. Yeah, I just did that for fun.
Just yeah, you. Just do I mean.
It just, it just amped the wanting to mate with me more,
yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe like insert the clip?
Where's the? Gym, is it over there or there?
(04:10):
And then you're like, oh, I, I'mlike.
No, never mind. It can also deter.
No, it obviously didn't deter, but yeah, so that part really
like struck us. Yeah.
As far as talking about, you know, why especially a lot of
like anthropologists or any other sort of scientific
(04:34):
credentialed person likes to bring up biology for excuses
when it's not just biological like that can help us make sense
of things. So I get why they bring it up,
but it's not the full picture. And I think that I guess I'll
(04:55):
let you say some things before Igo off on like another tangent
cause I've been talking for a while, but.
I want to finish your thought here.
Unless you I. Mean, I was just going to say
that I feel like if you genuinely think you're happy
being polyamorous, then monogamous, that you just really
haven't found somebody that fulfills those needs inside of
(05:17):
you. Because it makes me feel like if
you need more than one person inthat way, then like, you haven't
found somebody that you feel fulfilled with.
Right? Yeah.
And she was talking about how, like, if you're polyamorous, you
can have romantic relationships and connections with multiple
(05:39):
people and it makes you feel more fulfilled.
But I don't think that's necessarily true, right?
Because I feel like then having dated and having had romantic
interests in other people, that would feel fulfilling, but it
never does. Like, and even with men, like
they think that they can just sleep with people because
biologically that's what their biology is telling them to do.
So then when they do it, they still feel like they're missing
(06:01):
that thing, right? Like it doesn't feel truly
fulfilling. Yeah.
And you've been there. And like I've been searching for
a relationship before you came along and you were spreading
your your seed before I came along and.
I'm a gentleman. I don't do no such thing.
And So what I'm trying to say, though, is, is that we were both
(06:22):
in the position where, like, it should have, right?
Yeah, feeling it should have been whatever, But it's not.
And it's because there's that spiritual side of it that
science doesn't take into account and kind of almost
discredits because it's not provable.
Right, even though. Science isn't provable either,
(06:42):
but that's a whole nother. Well, this part kind of science
like pseudoscience, right? Like psychology?
Right, where you're trying to understand the human mind, which
it's like, yeah, we also talked about that when we were talking
about a lot of this is that how do you even know if someone's
telling you the full truth or how they fully feel?
Like how do you even articulate that in a way and how it could
(07:04):
change? It could not change, You know,
that's it's kind of hard to quantify that and be like, this
is the right way. Which and again, like you said,
she started the thing being like, fathers are important.
And in the Congo, they're like the ones that take care of the
baby half of the time, literallyhalf the time.
They do all these things, but you don't really need them at
the end, You know, Like she's like, it doesn't really matter.
(07:26):
And then they go off and start anew family.
But they are animals, right? So it's like, and they're
running off instincts. They don't have the cognitive
ability and the spiritual aspectthat we have as humans because
we don't live like animals. All animals live like animals.
You don't see animals that don'tlive like animals.
There's no animals that are going around that I know of that
(07:48):
are wearing clothes and typing on computers and making things,
things besides primitive tools, right?
And, you know, and, and, and, and having a language where they
have decided how to communicate and how their society will work.
And this is the thing it's like.Octopus cities though, have you
heard about those? No, there's literally like 2
(08:10):
octopus cities or something thatoctopus have constructed.
But octopus are also one of the Octopi are one of the, like,
most intelligent yeah creatures so.
But the biology of it is so, I mean, the question is like, are
we a monogamous, you know, species?
And I think that, you know, she presented some biology of it.
(08:31):
And I think there are like there's the biological
components and then there's the spiritual components on top of
that, what I'll call that. And so biologically, I, I don't
even necessarily agree with her that we're non monogamous.
I, I do, I do think that biologically men are wired to
want to spread their seed to, for genetic diversity, right?
(08:55):
So a man is visually wired like biologically to be attracted to
multiple women and to try and get with multiple women, right.
A woman doesn't have that same biological wiring.
Not that a woman can't find guys, different guys attractive,
but when she has one man, she isgenerally like, not like you see
(09:20):
a guy with a shirt off. You're not like, Oh, I, I, you
know, I need to go over there, right?
Whereas men, they're more Ding, right.
However, women biologically are wired to seek emotional
relationships outside of their relationship in in the sense
(09:41):
that well, but they have to resist that at a spiritual
level, just like, or, you know, whatever.
At a psychological level. You could say, because the proof
of that that's biological. Yeah.
Is is romance novels, romance stories, movies, right?
Women want to have, but I think.Romantic.
They don't have it. I mean, yes.
(10:02):
But. You can say the same thing with
men. If they don't have the
attractive woman that they want,then are they, you know, but I,
I just think that biologically women are, are wired to seek
that, to seek romance, just like, but it's something that
has to be tamed, just like a man's desires have to be tamed.
(10:22):
But I think if you're getting romance in your relationship
that you're not seeking that. Yeah, I I think that, but you
have to make that choice, you know what I'm saying?
It's like, are you because womenare still tempted by romance
stories right now? Again, it's not necessarily in
(10:43):
in a we don't see it in a bad way unless it's excessive,
right? But but women that are happily
married will still want to watchromances, right?
And So what I'm saying is the biological wiring for the
affinity for romance or the attraction towards romance, is
there equivalent to the biological wiring for the the
(11:07):
visual aspect of attraction to men, right?
So it's like men biologically are wired to be attracted to the
physical element, right? Whereas women are biologically
wired to be attracted to the emotional element.
Both of those things as humans and not animals, we have to
control to a degree, or you knowwhat I'm saying?
(11:29):
Like we, we have to live a way that we want to live.
On top of that, we're not just ruled by our our primitive
desires. Well, so we know how men do
that, like not engaging in thosebehaviors, like not searching
for corn on the Internet, not, you know, Googling random women,
like, you know, training themselves to appreciate what
(11:53):
they have. What do you say that women do?
Because I didn't think that you would go the romance way.
Like, I get that women want romance, but I guess like,
obviously the romance novels we've talked about, like, that's
not good. And it's actually going to make
you more unfulfilled in your relationship because you don't
have that. Now you're comparing it.
(12:13):
But what other thing are you saying that women need to tame
and and in terms of that, because it's also like makes me
feel like women should. You're not saying this, but it
makes it sound like women shouldn't want the emotional
romance from their partner, right?
I feel like that's just kind of a.
(12:33):
No, they should want it only from their partner, right?
So it's like maybe it's better to compare, but compared to smut
novels, right, in in a sense that that's a better way to got
the smut now tick, tick tock, book, book talk, love you.
But you know, so, so basically like, if you think of it this
way, right? And, and here's the kind of
world that we live in, right? So as a man, right, our
(12:58):
advertisers and marketers are smart, right?
What's all over the fucking place that you cannot go
somewhere and not see all over the place.
You go to the gym, go to the pool, go to just to your
computer, TV, every like, well, yeah, but scantily clad women,
boobs, butts everywhere, right? Like, I mean, literally think
(13:21):
about how many images of boobs and butts, right?
Or you know, of, of women that every human is exposed to every
single day wherever you go, right?
It's all over social media, it'sall over advertising.
It's all over. Sexualized because like in
Europe they have a lot of like that sort of stuff, but it's not
as like sexualized as I feel like it is here.
(13:45):
I mean they have like topless beaches and stuff there.
Yeah, but it's like, I mean, regardless, it's like, well,
it's that's still indecent, right.
It's so like it's like, I mean, they're trying to be like we are
superior. It's because we don't sexualize.
No, but you still got you. You.
You're telling me that dude is like, oh, but those, those tits,
(14:07):
I don't care. They guys can see them any day.
It's like, no. Yeah, but you can see them any
day, everywhere, in every advertisement.
But, you know, just because you've made a topless speech and
tried to say that it's culturally appropriate, it
doesn't. It's still sexualized, right?
It's like, it's just not explicitly sexualized.
But don't tell me guys are like,oh, I boobs.
I don't care about boobs. No, they don't.
(14:28):
You know what what I'm saying though, is that the images are
everywhere. And so a man has to actively
resist that biology because marketers, advertisers are
smart. They use what's that they know,
right? And women are, are, are also
purposely exploiting that weakness in men, right?
(14:51):
That biological weakness women don't have as much like there's
not romantic smut like in their peripheral all the time, but
they can easily get addicted to smut novels and then have access
to that and and indulge in that right?
(15:11):
Because it it is easy for a woman to become addicted to
those things to romance novels, to smut novels.
Why? Because it's lighting up the
same thing that's lighting up for the man.
It's the only problem is that man is being exposed to this all
the time everywhere. Women aren't typically being
exposed to it all the time, but definitely advertisers are smart
when they they advertise to women in certain ways as well to
like the romance stories and the, you know, to, to, to, to
(15:35):
find that dissatisfaction with your relationship that makes you
want more of this, of how it should be.
You know, the, the fantasy, right?
You see what I'm? Saying that is how it should be.
Well, well, yeah, but but some of the depictions.
I think it's definitely how it should be.
Well I I agree, but you know, but but some of the depictions
(15:55):
are unrealistic. Like aliens?
You know, I'm not even saying aliens, I'm just saying like,
even like. Alien smut novels.
Well, look, yeah, aliens smut novels for sure.
Yeah, but but you get what I'm saying, right?
And so, so you have a biologicalcomponent that is hardwired into
(16:15):
men, right? You have a biological component
that's hard wired into women, different weaknesses that they
have, but both of those things have to be controlled, right?
As a man, what do you do? You don't go and seek that out.
Like you try to shield yourself from the thing.
You don't go and look at it. You don't, you know, you don't
entertain it as a woman, same thing.
Like you just don't indulge yourself into this stuff.
(16:37):
Yeah, you could read 500 romancenovels and get into smut novels
and all all these things, right.And, and you, you choose to not
do that, even though you might be pulled to that, especially if
you start reading them. It's in, you know, it's a, it's
a trap, right? So that's what I would say about
the biology about that. I thought you were going to more
so go that women are biologically inclined to seek
(17:02):
higher status men. That's true as well, right as we
talked about last. Week with them.
They're with the rock star thing, right?
And so, so, so yeah. So I guess that's the other
thing, is that women would have to resist the celebrity or the
rock star, the status. Or a higher status man is what
(17:23):
you're saying than the man that she's with.
Yeah. But I think though, that's
that's where it's kind of a weird thing and maybe it is more
of the psychological component. But like when I coach guys, I'm
always like, no, you're the highest status man this woman's
ever seen in her life because itdoesn't even matter because
you're higher status than a fucking rock star because you're
the fucking man, right? You know what I mean?
Like you have to have that. If you're carrying that swagger
(17:44):
with you everywhere you go, thenyour woman also believes that
because you you have. Because it's what you're
projecting. The confidence, yeah, Like,
until you make it right, yeah. That's true though.
Like as a man, if I believe thatyou could do better than me,
then then you should do better than me.
Like I don't believe you can. Like I'm never gonna believe
(18:05):
that. I'm like, I'm the fucking shit,
right, You know? You are the fucking shit.
But I have to believe that, right?
Otherwise, you know, Otherwise, where am I then?
Then I then does you're susceptible to the biology of
the of the status, but but it doesn't mean that women have to
always go after the highest status man they can and leave
relationships with men that are of and just like a man doesn't
(18:29):
have to be like, Oh, well, that woman's harder than my woman.
So I guess I better go and tradeup like that's, that's not also,
you know, again, we we don't necessarily operate like that.
And and there and again, at the biological level, maybe your
biology might be telling you some of those things that way,
right? But at a psychological level,
you have things like love, right?
(18:52):
Like. Spiritual level is what we said
the spiritual level. And love is saying that, yeah,
that's it's not worth, like whatI'm getting is so much better
than what I could get, you know,like it's, it's not it, it's not
the, you know, there. There's this intangible value
that I'm getting that makes me happy, makes me fulfilled.
(19:13):
Right, right. Yeah.
I mean, we're not just strictly biological beings.
Right, and that's what everyone gets wrong.
Talking about anything, especially relationships in a
biological way, almost strictly biological way, makes zero sense
because it's not biological at all.
(19:33):
Like, I mean, it is to some degree, but I feel like really
when you're I guess that's The thing is even last episode in
this episode, you keep saying all these things like, no, you
have to make a choice, but I feel like I'm not choosing.
It's just what I know to be right.
And so when you're like, oh, like you have to choose to not
(19:56):
want to be with a higher status,man, I'm like, that's not even
like. In my mind, it's not even feels
like in my biology at this pointbecause the spiritual part and
the like, knowing that you and Iare meant to be together, which
probably sounds woo woo to a lotof people, but I don't even care
(20:17):
because it's like when you feel it, you know?
Exactly, Yeah. And so and it can't be explained
through biology. It's not that you, I don't know,
it's not like the things that you did biologically, it's that
connection that you and I have. Like, yes, it is like you don't
do the things that you talked about, like you don't stare at
(20:39):
women or you're not going to leave me for like a hotter
person and I'm not going to leave you.
But like those things don't evenpop up on the radar, if that
makes sense, because that spiritual part of it that a lot
of people talking about relationships gets discarded or
like other like fears get thrownin And it's like, you know,
(21:01):
people are like, don't have joint bank accounts with your
husband or wife. Like what?
Like that's just fear. Like, and I get where the fear
stems from and I get that we want to make sense of things in
life with biology. So we can be like, no, this is
the exact way you do this, but you can't really do that.
And I know we're sitting here and we're trying to do the best
(21:22):
that we can to help people get to where you and I are.
And you can, I think you can do that.
There's not a step by step guidewe can give people.
We can just talk about what we're doing and what's worked
for us and where we're at. And people might not believe
that we're in the place that we're at, but we are.
And so if you do believe it and you do want it, you can listen
(21:44):
to what we're saying and put that into action for yourself.
Or, I don't know, stick to the biology if you want, but that's
not going to give you the full picture, right?
Yeah, You can't use biology as the excuse and be like, this is
just how we're wired or how things are supposed to be just
like, because because we live. Well, that's what I was talking
about too, is we live in an artificial world, right?
(22:06):
So in the natural world before, you know, there wasn't fast food
and there wasn't refined sugar, right.
And so in that natural world, ifyou just ate how you felt as a
human instinctually, based on your biology, you'd probably do
pretty good, probably eat the right stuff, probably wouldn't
get fat, probably wouldn't get heart disease, right.
Probably be OK that we also livein an artificial world of butts
(22:30):
and boobs, right? And so you can't you can't fast
food it like, you know, like youstill have to constrain
yourself. We live in a world where every
indulgence is available to us from a biological craving.
There are plenty of smut novels.There are plenty of things that
women can get caught up in or orvalidation she can get from
Dming rock stars on Instagram and their response respond back
(22:55):
right. But you don't just go after all
those things because is an artificial world.
You can't go by just on your, your instinct or feelings,
right? But but to the point that you're
saying when you have a relationship like we do, that is
that is so deep on that psychological, spiritual level,
then those biological urges, youcan't even hear them anymore.
(23:19):
They're still there cuz we're inand it's in our biology.
But we can't we're, we're not viewing them.
We're not hearing them. They don't they're.
They are muted. They're muted that that's,
that's the thing about it. And so that's, that's what's
possible is to have those thingsbe muted, right?
And so you're not subject to your body just like if someone
is like, you know, when someone's like, oh, I'm
(23:41):
overweight because it's, it's genetic.
I'm, I'm hungry all the time. And I like, I just have to eat
this. Like, yeah, you have a biology
that's driving you for hunger, right?
And, and maybe yours is more than, than other people, but the
reason why you're 500 lbs is because you're eating McDonald's
three times a day. Like, it's like you're, you're
making choices. Yeah, you could be hungry and
(24:02):
eat food, but the choices that you're making are causing your
result. You're not just subject to your
biology, you know what I'm saying?
People don't want it to be theirfault, right?
They want to blame it on something, something that's out
of their control, right? And I think even with
relationships, right, they want to blame being attracted to
somebody else or doing somethinglike that or being addicted to
(24:23):
smut novels or, I don't know, whatever it is on something
else. That it doesn't have to be their
choice, like it doesn't have to be their fault.
Right, right. But like you said, it is your
choice, right? And it is your responsibility to
cultivate the relationship that you want, not just be like,
well, biologically men are gonnastare at women and so as a
(24:47):
society, we should be fine with that, or biologically, women are
gonna want to seek out romance. So you just have to deal with it
and whatever. Because I feel like if you give
in to those things and plenty ofpeople do, right?
Women become disinterested in sex with a man that is sex
craved for other people, not hiswife.
(25:08):
And men become less romantic when their wife is obsessed with
romance novels or romance moviesare like getting that fix from
somewhere else. And so that has become
normalized rather than, you know, harnessing the spiritual
part. And it's also like validated in
a way by biology being like or science being like, well, this
(25:32):
is how we're biologically wired.Like, it's fine.
Like, how many times have you heard the excuse that men
seeking out women in multiple ways is just their biology,
right? So many times.
Oh yeah, yeah. Well, it's like, OK, do you
shave your armpits? No.
Yes, you do. You like them?
(25:53):
I mean, but what I'm saying is that biologically you have hair
that grows under your arms. Yeah.
So no one makes an argument. I mean, some people do make the
argument, but as a society we'renot like, I mean, it's just
biology was like, why would we not?
Some people do. I mean, some people do, but what
I'm saying is that it's like, you shave your legs, you shave
(26:15):
your armpits as a woman, right? It's like, yeah, the biology is
other than that, but we don't ever make the argument like it's
ridiculous to shave your armpitsbecause that's the biology.
It's the same, That's the same argument that I hear when people
are like, oh, it's ridiculous toto to like expect men to be
faithful or to not look because it's biology.
(26:35):
I was like, yeah, but we don't do everything according to
biology. That's my whole point.
It's like if we did everything according to biology, then we
would just be animals and we just do whatever the fuck we
want. And then, I mean, he got angry
and he killed someone. So I mean, it's biology, right?
It's like, why are you going to throw him in prison?
Like, it's that's just what happens.
Like you get angry, you kill people, you know, or, you know,
hit them. That's just biology, right?
(26:55):
It's like you we can't use that's just biology for any
other excuse for any other part of society.
We never excuse criminals because of criminals because
it's biology, right? We don't like not wear clothes
and shit in our yards because it's biology.
Like we do other things that areagainst the quote biology
(27:17):
because it's better, because we're evolved, because we're
humans, because we have a higherlevel of thinking, not the
animal brain that, you know, we have a a cerebral cortex that's
on top of the animal brain. That's where we have our
willpower and our decision making.
That and our language abilities that sit above it, which is
that's the spiritual, the higherlevel, right, Right.
(27:38):
And so that's why like it's sucha stupid argument of, yeah,
we're not monogamous because it's our biology.
I disagree that that's even the case in the biology because part
of biology is mate guarding, right?
So, and we are biologically wired to be extremely jealous
when someone tries to take our our mate.
So if you're monogamous, why would you care, right?
(28:01):
You know, except for paternity, right?
I mean, yeah, if you're non monogamous, why would you care
Exactly. Yeah, the paternity aspect of
the gene of genetics are, I get that part.
But like, why does it matter if you're non if you're
biologically not? There must be some monogamous
element of our biology in order to have that reaction.
(28:23):
Honestly, I feel like it, the polyamorous being our natural
biological way was invented by aman, I would think, in order to
promote men going out and being able to do more things because I
do. I'm not saying that there aren't
any polyamorous women, but womenI feel like are biologically
(28:48):
geared more towards relationships and it's like
that's where they feel most likeconnected and loved.
And again, it goes back to the spiritual part of like loved,
like women are way more likely to be happy with one man that
they love and they care about intheir respect.
But a man could love and care about and respect his woman and
(29:11):
still cheat on her. So it's like, in that sense,
like I don't think it's all biology because again, women,
there are women that are in polyamorous relationships or
whatever. But like you said, I think
though that men and women are yin and Yang like we've talked
(29:32):
about before, and you need 2 halves to make a whole.
That's two people. That's not four or five or
whatever. You can't make a yin and Yang
with that many people. You can make separate ones, but
it's like 2 halves make the whole in this sense in a
relationship. And it doesn't have to be just a
heterosexual relationship, but it's, to me, it just doesn't
(29:57):
really make sense to have these other outlying pieces.
Yeah. Because you're not going to have
a whole. You're not going to create a new
unit. Yeah.
And you can create, like a family unit, right?
Can have multiple people. But really at the core of that
is still the parents, right. Yeah.
So just in my mind when she was talking about it, it more so
(30:19):
seems like someone somewhere. Use.
The science to like promote thisnew age way of like, no, we
don't have to live just to a couple.
It can be one person with multiple wives or and you've
seen that in other religions or countries and things like that,
they have multiple wives. But not once have I seen that
(30:41):
where people seem actually happier.
And in that podcast, she said they are happier.
And I don't believe that. I feel like you more so see the
happiest people, which are people who genuinely found their
soul mate or someone they want to spend the rest of their lives
with, and they do that and they're happy the entire time.
When I mean, there's a biological like history or
(31:04):
reason for like the polygamous relationships that that is under
under certain circumstances, there's like there's a lot of
biology that is under certain circumstances, right?
So back in the day, right, when a lot of men were killed in
warfare and there was a high amount of women to men ratio and
(31:27):
women were not working and sustaining themselves like and,
and, and not even just from a political standpoint, right?
Like we have to remember that it's not that women were
suppressed necessarily, it's that we didn't have the
technological advancement where where like, like where you could
(31:48):
sustain yourself without having one person dedicated to taking
care of the household and kick cooking and taking care of the
children and another person going out and hunting and
killing. And you know what I mean?
Like that, Like now we have a, we go to the supermarket, we get
meat. We, you know, we we can do desk
jobs and make money. And so.
So there was an element of that,right.
And so women couldn't just survive on their own back in
(32:10):
that at that time. Yeah.
Now women could survive on theirown.
That's fine, right. But back then in our history,
women couldn't survive on their own, right?
They needed a man, right? As, and if a man had a lot of
resources, then multiple women, that man kind of was under a
duty or obligation to take care of multiple women.
(32:31):
But also those relationships were more about a, a, like a, a
survival type of relationship, right?
And so there's a biological component where where a man
could, you know, could take careof and, and, and have multiple
women and women would be accepting of that situation.
We can even see it now, like we were talking about last episode
(32:52):
with rock stars, like a woman will share, a lot of women will
share a man that's high enough value, that has enough status
and resources because it's biologically, but a man would
never do that, right, Because there's a biological difference,
you know, however, it doesn't point to non monogamy as a
default. It it points to it that under
certain circumstances, we are wired in such a way that we're
we're in order for the population to right but.
(33:15):
We're wired for survival, not for monogamy, right, Right.
And so if you're going to make that argument, then it's we're
just wired to survive. Yeah, and that's a lot of like
the root biology is wired to survive.
There's a really good book called Sperm Wars that talks
about the evolutionary biology and sexuality and it and there's
(33:36):
a lot of evolutionary adaptations that have occurred,
such as like the shape of the penis as a shovel to shovel out.
A shovel. Yeah, like to shovel out other
sperm from other competitors. When was this?
When did this happen? Yeah.
(33:56):
I mean, this is how it's. Now shaped like a shovel.
Yeah, the head, like it's not like a full shuffle.
I guess I'm like literally imagining, you know, those like
sharks that have kind of like a shovel shaped head, Like it's
not a hammerhead shark. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They have like a shovel shaped head.
Yeah, it's not quite, you know. I wouldn't call it a shovel, but
I can see what you're saying. But it serves that purpose it.
(34:18):
Serves that well. What did it look like before?
No, no, that's what it. I like that.
It's always. Been for humans you know like
yeah but I mean different, you know dogs are like, you know
there's like different our horses it's like I.
Think it looks more like a mushroom.
Huh. Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, I know it is, but.A shovel.
Serves the purpose of literally.Thinking about a shovel that's
(34:41):
that sounds really painful. Yeah, but it but it but it it
there's certain. Sorry, I yeah, distracted.
You're distracting me now. So but, but yeah, but I mean
there's different things that that occur and even in terms of
ovulation and and and and women's, you know, are more
likely to orgasm with a man they're cheating with.
(35:05):
Then the you know, which the reason biologically for that is
because it's for genetic diversity is because if she is
pursuing a short term rendezvouswith a higher genetic potential
mate as opposed to the provider mate, then orgasm actually
(35:30):
increases the likelihood of conception.
And so that's why that happened.Also, when a man cheats, his
sperm count is higher with the woman that he cheats with, which
again these are biological mechanisms.
So that again, it doesn't it doesn't because it's going to
(35:55):
sound like OK, that sounds pretty non monogamous.
It's like. You're proving the point.
But what it what it it OK, so biologically I don't think we're
non monogamous, but biologicallyare we wired to cheat?
Yes, like that is in our biology.
Again, we, that doesn't mean we do it right, just like we're
(36:15):
biologically wired that when we get angry, we get violent, but
we don't doesn't mean that we doit right.
But what I'm saying is that that's how you know, that's how
these things have evolved, right?
These are real facts about humanreproduction like sperm volume
and and stuff is measured in in those those situations and.
You think we're biologically programmed to cheat just to
(36:39):
reproduce and populate the world?
Because it doesn't sound like really it's for.
I mean, it just sounds like for reproduction.
For genetic advantage, yeah, right.
So it's just. Like, do you get married just to
genetically reproduce? Are you polyamorous just to
genetically reproduce? Well, that's The thing is like.
(37:01):
Yeah, there's there's. They're using biology.
But yes, a lot of people get married to have children and
create a family. But it's like monogamous people
don't typically go down that. I mean, polyamorous people don't
typically go down that road to be like, no, I'm gonna start a
family with all these people. But the the wiring.
(37:23):
Way back in the day when they were just trying to survive.
Right, but the Wang is there right.
There's another good book calledMean mean genes, right?
Or the OR actually there's there's one called I think mean
the the selfish gene, right. I think that's Dawkins, but it
talks about how the gene, your genetics are just trying to
(37:43):
replicate itself. And there's a lot of studies and
you know, there's different pieces of this where you
depending on your genetic relation to someone like a
cousin or something like that. Then like there's, that's where
they think that the, the idea oflike compromising or working
together came from is like, OK, well, if I can't pass on my
(38:04):
genes, I, like my cousin has some of my genes.
So I'm willing to sacrifice myself in order for my cousin to
survive in order to pass on someof our genetic material.
So like it's, it's like the, thegenes are hijacking your, your,
your brain, your system, like bydefault, but you as a human
obviously override those things to a degree, right?
So. Well, yeah.
(38:26):
And I think too, it's like you can't go strictly based on your
biology because then every womanshould have kids, right?
That's what we're right. We have all these parts for,
right? Like that's biologically what
we're supposed to do, right? And as many as.
Possible women now don't even want to have any kids at all so
(38:47):
it's like you can't again I guess it just feels like cherry
picking things to promote a certain narrative and it's
harmful. I think to use biology to
support these things when especially relationships is not
strictly biology. Exactly.
There's a social construct there's tons of.
(39:07):
Parents too that don't connect with their kid the way that they
biologically should. Like there's so many outliers
even with this biological science that they're bringing in
to support their claims that again, I feel like it's harmful
to like to try to include polyamory so that it doesn't
(39:31):
feel like an outlier while diminishing monogamy, if that
makes sense. Like honestly, how I feel is
people can do whatever they wantto do, but to promote that
they're happier with multiple partners.
There's just a part of me that genuinely doesn't believe that.
Like if for this part of their life, they want to be
(39:54):
polyamorous and they're enjoyingthat, I believe that.
I believe that they can be in that stage of their life.
But having again having like dated and tried to find like the
person and like dated around until you came along, none.
Of even those other relationships or any part of
(40:16):
that was better than being with you.
And so again, I just feel like it's harmful to be like, well,
biologically we're not monogamous.
And so these people are happier.Like are they happier?
I think they're also trying to promote their situation that
they're in and like, maybe people think that that's what
we're doing. But again, I think if you go
back to see older couples that have been together for a really
(40:39):
long time or couples just in general where you can tell they
genuinely love each other and they love being with each other,
you can tell that they're happier.
Right. Exactly.
Yeah. And so they don't even have to
sit here and tell you on a podcast like this, you can
experience it. And I feel like people who are
in our lives have experienced it, right?
So I don't know, I just, I don'treally like the whole pushing a
(41:02):
narrative and then trying to back it up with biology when
there's plenty of outliers to biology.
And like you said, there's plenty of things that we should
be fighting biology on because we shouldn't be going around
acting like a bunch of crazy animals, right?
That, you know, it's actually more harmful to try to use
(41:23):
science to get people to believeit in order to push this other
narrative that isn't even reallybacked up by anything.
Just because it's biological, the OR natural doesn't mean it's
good. That's the thing that you know,
because it's like, I mean even even animal, even dogs, right?
(41:44):
We're not like, I mean, don't train the dog.
That's against the biology. Like just let it do whatever it
wants, shit wherever it wants, piss wherever it wants.
We wouldn't even have them inside if right.
Yeah, that's not part of their normal nature.
Right. So we like train a dog, right?
Dog behaves. We, we give the dog command like
we're, we're resisting the natural biology, right?
But there's also a part of the natural biology that makes a dog
(42:05):
trainable, right? So, so, but, but what I'm saying
is that we, we don't just acceptthat in humans, we don't accept
that in dogs. So we're just going to accept
that in humans and use as an excuse.
It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.
It's important to understand to some degree the biology so you
can understand what you're dealing with, right?
And what things that you have toovercome potentially, right?
(42:28):
And, and what also your partner might struggle with, right?
Because it's different struggle.Like I said, it's a woman needs
to understand that she's not biologically wired the same as a
man because she doesn't understand why it is why it is
more difficult for a man to be, you know, let you know to be not
distracted by, you know, women in butts and boobs, right where,
(42:50):
because she doesn't have any problem with that.
So she's like, well, he must just be a piece of shit.
Well, the same thing a man needsto understand why women are
biologically wired to, you know,to seek out high status men or
to seek romance, you know, you know, and that and that kind of
thing, because otherwise he doesn't understand the the
struggle of that, right? You know what I'm saying?
So it's those things are good toknow, but it doesn't excuse the
(43:14):
behavior And it doesn't mean that we are subject only to our
biology and that we shouldn't judge people because they're
like, OK, well, it's just the biology.
It's just, you know, because that's that's not not not true,
right? And that's.
The yeah, no, I agree with you. It is not like it's not good
information to have. I just feel like it's bad when
you act like that's the only information you need, right?
(43:34):
That's my problem is like that'snot the only information you
need. And honestly, even us doing our
podcast, it's like we will we ever be able to like fully
explain it or will we ever be able to like give everyone all
the keys, all the steps? No, but it's like we have
cracked a lot of the code, including I feel like this, but
(43:58):
relationships are one of those things.
Like you said, how do you even scientifically quantify a
relationship? Like you really can't because
you can't really tell what someone's thinking.
They can tell you. You can hope they're telling the
truth. You can give them a lie detector
or something. But even then, does a lie
detector actually work? Who knows?
(44:19):
So it's like you have to just find couples and people that you
trust and trust that are tellingyou the truth and trust that
want to help you and trust that they're experiencing this
happiness that they want you to experience.
Rather than listening to some scientists be like, yeah, well,
(44:41):
you know, polyamorous people arereally the happiest because then
they're just spreading their love to everybody.
It's like, OK, but like, as a person, you should be spreading
your love to people, but that doesn't mean you're romantic
love you. You don't have to have multiple
romantic partners to be happier,Right?
Yeah. And so I guess that's my whole
(45:01):
spiel on it. Yeah.
Kind of like, I don't know what else I would add, but it just
bothered me that it was so blackand white when relationships are
the furthest thing from black and white.
It's Yeah. Well, it's.
A pull and there's a contradiction there too, which
is like, again, I don't care which side of the coin you fall
on, but contradictions I don't like right.
(45:23):
So it's like if you're like, OK,well, biology says this so that
I I didn't say it. It's like we're not a monogamous
biology biology. So that's how we should really
be. Well, OK, that if that same
person is like, whoa, homosexuality is, is biological
and it's perfectly normal, then it's like, well, but but this
doesn't fit in this. So like, you know, like, I'm OK
(45:47):
with that if that like if that'swhat a person wants to choose.
But you can't use the argument of biology.
You see what I'm saying? Because that's not biologically
natural. It doesn't work that way.
That's not how worldwide we can't reproduce through a
homosexual relationship. Our species is not created in
that way. If moral judgements aside, that
doesn't matter. I'm not trying to make a moral
judgement. You can do whatever you want as
(46:07):
a as a human being, I don't care.
But what I'm saying is if you'retrying to use a biological
argument, but you're trying to have it both ways that that I
can't stand. Like you got to pick one.
Say that it's not biological like it's what we're saying.
It's not strictly, no. One would argue that that
homosexual relationships reproduce right.
(46:27):
No one to argue that like you know what I'm saying?
Like it doesn't, doesn't make. Sense the point that it's not
based all on biology, right? But.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like if you want to say
it's all based on biology, then you have to by default be
against homosexual relationshipsbecause you would say, well,
that's not compatible with the biology.
What I'm saying is that it's notall based on biology.
There's another component that'shigher than that, right.
(46:49):
And that's why Exactly. Right.
So and that then that's The thing is like you just can't be
in contradiction. You have to choose what what
level you're living at. If you're living at just
biology, then let's let your dogdo whatever.
Don't train your dog right. And you know, and, and you
probably run around naked as a human.
That's your biology. But I think people that are
genuinely in happy, good relationships know that it's a
(47:12):
spiritual element because you can feel it when you're in that
sort of relationship. You can feel it.
And this lady, I think she's married and she had a kid or
something. I think even maybe she
understands that. But then when you are a
scientist and you can't back that up with science, what do
you preach? You're going to preach your
science so that you have credibility in your career
(47:34):
rather than things that can't beproven that people can be
skeptical of. But I think everybody knows who
have been in love, like really been in love, that it's a
spiritual. It's not just biological.
Like, it's not just like you smell good.
Like, yes, there is some of that, like, component
(47:55):
attraction. Yeah.
But it's not just like, I smelled him.
I like the smell. He is mine now.
Like, it's not caveman status. And even caveman people probably
didn't use just biology. They used, they didn't even know
what biology was right? You know, they met a nice other
cave woman and they were like, let's make babies and then, you
know, whatever. But like you said, or they
(48:16):
formed like a team where the caveman went hunting and then
she stayed at home and took careof the kids and he would come
back and like made sure that he still had his woman and like
she's not having babies with somebody else or you know what I
mean? So like it's more layers and
it's always been more layers andit always will be more layers
than just biology. Like, yes, you can use biology
(48:37):
to make sense of some of the urges and desires that you might
have, but that doesn't mean thatjust because it's biological
that it's right or like what youshould do or, you know, I mean,
that's like just doesn't, it doesn't make a lot of sense when
you talk about something as intricate as relationships to be
(49:00):
like, well, this is what biologysays.
So and then leave it at that. Like she didn't really talk at
all about the spiritual part. It was strictly.
And I mean again. I think it's because she's an
anthropologist. She doesn't want to lose her
credibility, so she goes more scientific.
But then again, she didn't even really talk about like the
studies that these things came from either.
So again, it's hard to, it's just like, again, I feel like it
(49:26):
was more damaging two relationships than what she even
intended because like you said, she started it talking about how
important it was for fathers to be in their children's lives.
And then by the end, it was like, well, you don't really
need men. Yeah, you know, these are.
(49:47):
He was kind of caught her in a trap because she was like, Oh,
well, like, yeah, because what she said didn't make sense.
Right. So it's like, and I think
because we're trying to like include all these different
things again, like, I don't carewhat people do.
That's not my life. It's not my problem.
(50:07):
But I think it is harmful when you try to include every single
thing in what you're talking about, because then you just
confuse people. Because some things are better
than other things, right? And that happens like you.
Have whatever you want. You can have whatever situation
that you want in life, but you can't act like they're all
equally as good. Because.
We know multiple like people outthere probably have
(50:32):
relationships that aren't that great.
Like we don't know anybody personally that I can think of
that has like a bad relationship, but it's like,
but. You know what I mean?
Like there's, we won't, but we won't call them out.
There's some people that, you know, aren't in a happy
relationship, right? Yeah.
And then there are people that are in a really happy
(50:53):
relationship. And then, you know, there might
be some polyamorous people who are happy, but are they really
happy? Are they like, what level are
they? You can't quantify that in a way
that biology will give you a setanswer.
Yeah, You know what I mean? Like, that's not biological to
even. Yeah.
(51:13):
Conduct that as a study because how do you really know?
Like. And I guess I, I mean this in a
way of like, before I met you, there are people I could have
been with that I could have had a happy life.
Sure. Yeah.
And that time, because I didn't know what you and I could have,
it could have seen like the top,right?
(51:34):
But then when you came along, I was like, nothing else will ever
compare. I still feel that way, nothing
else. And I know that for sure.
I don't have to go searching forit.
I'm like 100% certain, right. So people could still be, they
could be taking these studies and they're still in this other
area where they genuinely believe that they're at the top
of what they could have, right. Exactly.
But they don't even know that they're not but.
(51:55):
They don't know exactly, yeah. Yeah.
And so that's why it's just so harmful, in my opinion, to be
like, this is the science when it's not science you can even
understand, because I didn't even understand that I could be
this happy in a relationship andhave this sort of relationship
until you came along and we had it, right.
So like, you can't sit here and tell me that polyamorous people
(52:17):
are happier when you can't even really quantify because you
don't know where the person's at, you don't know where they're
at and their happiness level of the potential they have.
They're like, I don't like mangoes.
And they're like, what? Have you ever had a Costa Rican
mango? And they're like, no, but I
don't like it. Like, yeah, but if you had a
Costa Rican mango, you wouldn't say that, right?
(52:38):
Yeah. You just like.
Maybe you haven't gotten there. Yeah, exactly so.
And I think it's better to say things like maybe I haven't met
the right person yet, rather than be like you're better,
you're happier if you're polyamorous.
You know what I mean? All the good things we do that
we consider good are things thatare against our biology, by the
way, right? Like, you know, our biology is
(52:59):
like, be lazy. That's not a good thing.
Our biology is eat whatever you want.
That's not a good thing. Like we have we we admire
discipline as a good thing, right?
Our biology is, you know, say whatever you want, right?
You know, like whatever, be emotional, whatever I was like,
but we do not consider those to be good things.
So everything, you know, so you could make the argument that
(53:20):
we're non monogamous, that we have some non monogamous
tendencies by our biology. I could, I could, right?
Like we talked about some of those, but that doesn't make it
a good thing. Right, it doesn't make it the
right thing, right? Like doesn't make it the path
that we should go down. Everything else that is, you
know, that we consider to be good discipline, self respect
and, you know, control, self-control and all these
(53:43):
things. We consider those to be good
things which are against we consider them to be good because
they're against our biology, Youknow, so that's that's the the
thing about it is that and. I'm not saying that science is
bad, I just want to put that outthere.
I'm not saying that science is bad.
I won't say how I actually feel about science, but I don't feel
(54:03):
like it's bad. I feel like it has done a lot of
good things for us as humans andit will continue as well.
But I think when you're talking about something as spiritual as
relationships, any relationship,right, it cannot be explained
with science. No, you can't.
Yeah. There's.
No way. We don't operate at that level.
(54:24):
We operate at a societal level, at a higher level of of of
consciousness. I mean, that's that's The thing
is like if you look at the wholelevels of consciousness, right,
The like science is actually at level 500 with that.
What is the the chart called levels of consciousness.
Trying to remember the author's name and I can't remember is, is
(54:45):
Steven? I don't know.
I don't know. I know what.
Book you're talking about, but Ican't remember the title or the
author. Yeah, there we go.
Can't remember that. The author.
We'll we'll see. I mean, when AI makes the show
notes, I think it will it'll know you know the guy levels of
consciousness. You got it there.
Go grok. You can do it.
(55:06):
Yeah, we'll see. But but the but the idea is like
science caps out at level 500 I think and then above that is
like love, which is at like 600 and then like.
I didn't even know science was on there.
It is, yeah. It's it's, I think it's reason
is what Yeah. But but above that, there's
higher levels of consciousness that are beyond just the reason
(55:27):
logic, science level, Right, right.
And if you just go to that level, yeah, you can accomplish
a lot of things of a lot as a human being.
But beyond that is where the true, you know, the true spirit.
When you realized you were everything and nothing.
Yes, the void, the Enlightenmentlevel, right.
But but yeah, so yeah, I think that's.
(55:51):
I mean, I feel better expressingmy truth.
Yeah, yeah, there was something else that I think is I just want
to remember about the. Yeah, because, yeah, because
there's a lot of components of it where I think the biggest
thing is that just people, they use the biology as the argument,
but they don't think about the higher level about it.
(56:12):
But I think it's just to push their agenda.
Honestly. I think whenever the science
part is used in relation to anything that involves spiritual
aspects as well, it's just to push their narrative.
That's how I feel. And like maybe people think that
I'm pushing our narrative. They can believe what they want,
(56:33):
but I think we've made a pretty logical as well as spiritual
explanation for why you can't just go based off of biology
when you're using something thatincorporates many and maybe even
more things than even spirituality.
Spirituality. And biology together, you know
(56:55):
what I mean? Like it's, it's a bunch of
different components. Cuz again, you have to think
logically. It's not even just biologically.
You have to think logically whenyou're picking a partner.
You have to think spiritually, You know, you like, you have to
think about so many different things.
So, yeah. And what traits do we desire,
like, in our relationships, in our interactions with humans,
(57:15):
right? Even with, you know, like a dog,
dogs instinct is to dig. We have to train a dog against
its instinct to dig because we don't want it digging up
everything, right? We don't want it chewing up the
couch and all the stuff. And so we train specifically
against it. And it's the same thing as
humans. We train out the things that are
undesirable. Also, like if a dog is
(57:38):
domesticated, it doesn't have todig like it doesn't have to, you
know, scrounge for food. It doesn't have to do those
things. So you teach it that it's safe.
And again, in relationships, it's like you don't have to as a
woman search, read all these romance books.
If your partner's giving that toyou, it's safe.
It's safe to trust that he's going to provide that for you.
(57:59):
And vice versa with men. It's like that's how it should
be viewed rather than, you know,pushing.
Again, I feel like I just feel like it's pushing a narrative,
right? And that whole episode was kind
of actually confusing because itwas pushing multiple narratives
to try to include all the narratives.
Right, Yeah, all the check, all the boxes.
Saying even to not include people like.
(58:22):
No, no, but it's like. The thing, though, is, is when
you get to a point where you're trying to include everyone, you
muddle your own message a lot ofthe time.
Yeah. And so that's where I'm coming.
And also it wasn't very credibleseeming because there wasn't
even studies or no, you know, she didn't even talk about how
they're actually measuring that they're happier, like I
(58:43):
mentioned, or any of those things.
Right. And especially I feel like men
listening to those things might think that oh, I can go do
whatever I want, you know, cuz they think more logically, not
emotionally. Women might listen to that and
be like, that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
The emotional part is missing. Like, you know, it's not just do
(59:07):
this cuz I'm a human. It's like that.
That's we all have emotions. Men have emotions, women have
emotions. We're not just biology brain,
right, either. So it's like you can't explain
this in that way. Yeah, when that's not even who
we are as a whole, but who can even know who we are as a whole
because it's such a vast thing. And it's also there's also kind
(59:31):
of a component of, of happiness,you could say versus
fulfillment, which is more meat,like we don't always just chase
happiness. We don't always chase things
that make us feel good in the moment, right?
We delay gratification for long term success for things that are
fulfilling to us. Or the same thing I could say,
(59:51):
you know, about the food, like we don't just eat everything we
want to, right, because it will cause us harm.
But will you could say, well, you're happier if you just eat
whatever you want? For the short term, yeah.
But in the long term, you don't end up being, that would be
you're not fulfilled. You feel like crap, like you
don't feel good. So, you know, it's like you're
(01:00:12):
happier in those moments. And sure, if you indulge in all
of your, you know, yeah. Then yeah, you're going to,
you're going to have momentary happiness that exceeds the
happiness of of the base level of people who don't do that, who
are disciplined and do things that are hard, that they don't
necessarily want to do or, you know, control themselves.
But you're definitely not going to be as fulfilled.
(01:00:33):
I feel like when you feed 1, youharm the other one.
Yeah. If you feed your biological
urges, you harm your spiritual urges and things that you want
and vice versa. Like sometimes when you fulfill
your spiritual one, you're harming something else in
return, you know? So it's a, it's a trade off.
Like you can't make a choice without some sort of
(01:00:57):
consequence. Yeah, and you have to figure out
what choices you want to make. And that's why thinking about
those things and like thinking about relationships in general
is not something that should be taken lightly, right?
It involves a lot of things. And so again, I guess that's why
it bothers me with like this is the cookie cutter way of the to
(01:01:20):
happiness and relationships. Like no, like it's way more
complicated. Yeah, yeah.
So. All right.
I think we're at the end of it, yeah.
Put it all out there. And we still got nothing, you
know, going to. Keep it that way.
So we'll keep it that way, yes. Yeah.
(01:01:42):
Come, come follow us on. Come follow us.
Yes. You know, join the cult.
On our journey. But go check out that.
Probably episode did seem a little like woo woo.
I mean, it is a little, we're a little woo woo so, but it's OK,
we we get to be a little woo wooso but yeah.
(01:02:02):
Follow us on better than perfectpod.com.
Subscribe to the website. Social Medias.
Social media. Like and subscribe Yeah share
with your friends. Leave a leave a review, you
know, do all the things. Seeing us in e-mail.
Yeah. Talk to us.
Yeah, and if you're in San Diegoand you want to be on the
podcast. Let us know.
Yeah. And you got some kind of act or
(01:02:24):
something like that Act a good one.
Yeah, Bring. Your.
Talent Talent Show if you want to audition for the podcast.
Right, he's kidding. I'm not the like you got to you
just we're just going to let anyYahoo on here.
No, but you don't have to audition.
You just have to you. Got to impress us.
At least you got to be like, OK.Yeah, we're not super hard to
impress. I'm trying to sell it.
(01:02:46):
Like, what did we just talk about?
About people don't want stuff that is easy, right?
You're ruining. It's like we are hard to
impress. It's very freaking hard to get
on this show. John's like making it hard and
I'm like, you're going to scare them.
No one's going to reach out because they're going to be
scared. They're like this question isn't
good enough. That's right, yeah.
You got to bring your A game. You've.
(01:03:07):
Heard John. That's it.
All right. We'll see you next week.
Take care. Bye.
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