October 10, 2025 • 59 mins
Therapy terms were meant to heal—so why are they tearing us apart? Today we dig into therapy speak fatigue: how labels like “gaslighting,” “narcissist,” and even “boundaries” get weaponized, why validation isn’t agreement, and how to communicate without hiding behind buzzwords. We share concrete phrasing to replace labels with specifics so you can actually fix problems (and reconnect).Chapters • 00:00 Cold open: “Therapy speak is creating a divide” • 00:40 Intro + what we mean by “therapy speak” • 03:10 Weaponizing labels (gaslighting, narcissist, “holding space”) • 07:25 When big words dilute real abuse and real harm • 11:40 Validation vs. agreement (and why constant validation backfires) • 15:30 Boundaries vs. pathologizing: the clean way to set a boundary • 20:05 Scripts: describe behaviors without buzzwords • 25:10 Kids/Gen Z, schools, and the “diagnosis as identity” trap • 29:45 “Therapist as judge” + why outsourced accountability fails • 34:20 Coaching lens: responsibility you control vs. world you don’t • 38:15 If your partner weaponizes therapy speak—what to do next • 43:10 Weekly challenge + recapRelevant links & resources • Show site & all episodes: https://betterthanperfectpod.com • Gottman Institute (communication & conflict research): https://www.gottman.com • “Attached” (attachment styles): Amir Levine & Rachel HellerSend us your story or question: betterthanperfectpodcast@gmail.comFollow on socials: @betterthanperfectpodcastTakeaways • Use specifics over labels: “When you did X, I experienced Y. Here’s what I need next.” • Boundaries you control: “If name-calling starts, I’ll pause this convo and reschedule.” • Validation ≠ agreement. You can honor feelings without surrendering facts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The way that people are using the therapy speak and things
like that, honestly is creating a further divide because again,
it does nothing but blame other people, right?
The weird thing is, is that people use the terms to attack
someone else to, like you said, shield themselves and kind of
come across as they're not attacking somebody because
they're using the right words. Yeah, exactly.
(00:22):
But they don't realize that you're attacking somebody like
even if you're using therapy terms that seem innocent and you
can't be seen as attacking them with those you are.
Beyond the perfect we discoveredthrough our flaws, we complete
each other. Better than perfect, we stay
(00:45):
through every. Fault we find no way.
All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast,
where every week we share with you how 2 imperfect people
helping each other grow equals 1better than perfect
relationship. I didn't do anything.
I know I. Had to look to see you and I
like, I couldn't do my peripheral vision because I'm
(01:07):
like, what is he doing? Everybody didn't do anything,
Yeah. That's right, switched to that.
Yeah. So what are we, what are we
talking about? This is a topic you came up
with. I mean, we're all just like
trying to come up with topics, but yeah, no, what?
What was the topic? It was about therapy, speak,
fatigue, Are we over diagnosing each other?
(01:29):
And this is about couples, but Ithink it's about people in
general, honestly. So, yeah, I mean, one of the
points was when couples start weaponizing terms like
gaslighting our narcissistic tendencies, right, which like we
don't necessarily do these things.
And I think it's because we haverealized the therapy speak kind
(01:57):
of cover up that a lot of peopledo at this point, unfortunately.
And so we don't typically use these things against each other.
You're a narcissist. Right.
We never say so. Gaslighting me.
Yeah. But we do know people that do
use those terms and things like that.
And so, yeah, just talking abouthow honestly, in my opinion,
(02:24):
right, this is worse than how things were before.
Yeah, exactly. I agree with you.
Yes, before people had these terms, right, Right.
Like when they just said ridiculous stuff, it's like you
knew who that person was. Now, unfortunately, a lot of the
people that use therapy speak are using it in a bad way.
(02:48):
Yeah. It's disguising.
Yes. Because you don't know who the
actual enemy is. Right.
Like and they're trying to present like they're not, but
they're, they are weaponizing it.
Weaponizing is a good word because they're learning these
terms and learning how to manipulate them in order to
(03:08):
appear correct, right? Where no one can tell them
they're wrong, right? Because then the therapy terms
would be wrong. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, they're hiding behind it.
Right, Yeah. And so I honestly think it's
worse. I think it is keeping people
stuck, right, in bad habits and tendencies that they're now
(03:30):
masking with these things. They're not actually fixing them
right, like therapy was supposedto be, to help you figure out
what struggles you have and how you can change the things that
you're doing in order to overcome them or live with them,
but live more normally. It's supposed to be about you,
right? Not about other people, right?
(03:50):
And so it's like if a therapist like, like, let's take
narcissism, right? Like, to understand that is only
to apply it to yourself is to see when you have narcissistic
tendencies, right? But you don't get to put that on
other people like that. Like, it's useful narcissism,
Like understanding narcissism isuseful, right?
(04:10):
Only when applied to the self. Yeah.
It's not useful because you, youare the only person who can know
if you're a narcissist, right? You can't know other people are
narcissists. Right, because you don't know
everything. About them, you know, you can
throw that around like like there's a lot sometimes you can
have a lot of evidence, but evenstill you you really can't know,
(04:30):
but you can know for yourself. You're saying this because I
feel like I, Yeah. Because we know some but but
yeah, but but like if a therapist is telling you that
you have that, like you know about narcissism and you're
having you're displaying some narcissistic tendencies, then
you can self reflect and say that, right?
Or or even if a therapist, I guess the therapist might say
(04:51):
that someone is gaslighting you,but then and again, it's not
meant to weaponize to use against them to say you're
gaslighting. It's for you to recognize that
you're being right. You're being told the version of
the truth that you're buying right, as opposed to, you know,
you, you using that to to let people know that they're gas.
(05:12):
That's not the like the boundaryis the thing to have because we
the the was the boundaries versus pathology pathology
pathologizing I. Guess pathologizing.
Yeah, see now. You got.
Yeah, but but, yeah, but but that's The thing is, is that
people are using these these terms, right?
(05:33):
And then and then you're right. Then they hide behind it.
Well, and then they're like, you're bad because the issue is
like people didn't want to go totherapy because they didn't want
to look like something was wrongwith them.
Right now everybody goes to therapy and uses the terms to
prove how everyone else is bad and there's something wrong with
them, right? Exactly.
But you're the one in therapy stealing the terms and being
like you're a narcissist. You're gaslighting, right?
(05:57):
Does that make sense? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Like, like you said, it's
supposed to be about you, right?Therapies.
You're supposed to go in to workon stuff that you're dealing
with, right? Not go in there and learn words
and be like, oh, you're a narcissist, right?
Because you have this. Or like it'd be the same thing
as someone's watching this this podcast and then they go to
(06:18):
their spouse and they say you need to watch this episode
because see, and better than perfect podcast, they're talking
about exactly what you're doing,which is not right, right.
Like it's like, no, this like ifyou're watching this, this is
for you to fix your shit. Yeah, it's not for you to go and
take it and use it to beat someone with.
That's doesn't solve problem. You can be like, let's watch it
(06:40):
together, but don't be like, you're doing all these things
wrong. You need to watch this video.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's again, it's like the
same sort of. Yeah, that's.
Sort of the idea. But it's also like the the you
take away the actual severity ofthe thing.
It's like when people what was it that they're misusing and it
(07:02):
takes away the of of like sexualharassment for for example,
right? Or like, or it was it was
something around sexual harassment.
I forget that we're having this discussion and it's like, well,
yeah, but when you use it so widely, like so lightly, then
you take away from people who have actually been victimized
(07:24):
like, you know, like, or if you're if you're claiming
something is like, all right, I'm not even going to say the
the one word, but we, we have this, you know, culture that
people say it's like tab, we're playing taboo right now.
You know, it's like, it's a blank culture, right?
People use that. When you use that, you're
actually doing a big disservice to people who have experienced
the thing because you're making light of it as if it's
(07:47):
everywhere. And and people are like, this is
a, you know, it's like, no, thisis a traumatic thing and you're
making it to normalize to light by using that word lightly.
Don't use these words lightly. Like narcissism is one, right?
The therapy is like, yeah, someone could really be a
narcissist, but if you're calling everybody and their mom
a narcissist because they disagree with you or they did
(08:10):
one selfish thing, then it doesn't have any effectiveness.
And then when someone actually is trying to use this to really
wake you up or in therapy, then it doesn't mean anything.
It should be a word or even manipulation is a word to where
it's like you're emotionally manipulating me.
If someone really is calling that out, is is.
(08:31):
But if you're crying that about every single thing everyone
says, then now you don't have exactly.
Now you don't have a level to gothat's to indicate the thing
because you're using it all the time.
So now what's the neck? There's no level.
Like it should be like gaslighting.
Same thing as this. Like, OK, are you just not?
Are you just hearing things thatyou don't like or someone really
(08:54):
actually telling you stuff that is making you like question
yourself? And they're trying to use this
to manipulate you to alter your sense of reality, right?
If they're really doing that, then yeah, call it out as
gaslighting. But if they're if, if all these
other lower things that you're calling gaslighting, then when
you actually say gaslighting when they're actually happening,
(09:16):
you can't tell the difference because you're using the same
word, right? You know, that's, that's my
biggest issue is that you're using the same word.
But that should be a severe word.
Right. But it's like a, it's, that's
what it should actually be. Not like a scale of it, like a
lower end of the scale, you knowwhat I mean?
That's why I didn't like when people are saying the word, even
(09:37):
the word financial abuse, right?Because I'm like, you're making
light of abuse. Abuse is a serious word, right?
Right. Like physically abused, verbally
abused. Those are serious things,
especially physically abusing someone or sexually abusing
someone, right. When you say financial abuse,
you're taking this powerful wordand you're diluting it because,
(09:57):
yeah, someone might be doing financially something that you
don't like or, or whatever. But now you're you're you're
taking away the power from that word for, for situations where
it's actually meaningful. And, and is, I mean, if even
just using the word abuse because people will say, oh,
you're abusing me or this is abuse.
Yeah. Is it really though?
Because if you're just throwing that word around, you're making
(10:19):
light of the word. And now we don't have a word
that describes their actual thing, so you're taking power
away from the people that need to actually describe what's
actually happening to. Them well, I think what we're
actually doing, like you said ismislabelling things like you
said. And so everybody is held to this
(10:42):
like criminal offense even if they didn't do what people are
claiming that they're doing. It's like we have lost all
capacity, which I like Raquel, the therapist that's online, she
talks about capacity. Because that's the real issue
here is like we went from no onewas in therapy and people really
(11:03):
needed therapy right? To now everyone is right.
But now it's made nobody accountable for themselves.
It's made everybody point fingers and blame other people,
right? Which is the even with.
Parenting like. Oh yeah, You know, people are
afraid to like, actually discipline and parent their kids
because what if their kids like,that's abusive or something?
(11:25):
You know what I mean? And like, like you said,
someone's going to hear the word, especially like an
authoritative figure. And it's going to be like, oh,
we need to investigate this or something.
And then it's just they just didn't like that.
Like we're teaching our kids andthe younger generation these
words that they don't truly meanand that they are using in ways
that they shouldn't be used a lot of the time.
(11:47):
I'm not saying all the time, buta lot of the time.
And then nobody can actually handle anything that's going on.
Like that's also why we're so divided and there's so much
hate. Oh yeah.
Against each other is because we're constantly trying to blame
the other person. And now we're using therapy
words, which are supposed to be to help people, right?
(12:08):
But now we're using them to harmpeople, right?
And they are harming people and they're harming us, right?
Because if you're actually focused on bettering yourself
and you know, working through whatever issues that you have,
you're, you're not going to be weaponizing the words used to
help yourself. You're not going to take those
(12:31):
and figure out a way to hurt other people with them, right?
Like therapy is supposed to be about helping people, right?
But majority of the stuff you see these days, especially
online, is harming people. Exactly, Yeah.
And even going into therapy and then your therapist is like, Oh
yeah, that person's a narcissistor whatever.
That's not helping you. Either.
(12:52):
No, it doesn't. Yeah, exactly.
And I'm not saying all therapists are like that, but
I'm like even the therapist now are like trying to validate the
person by labeling other people that they know nothing about,
right. And in order to try to help this
person, but even validating everything has caused problems.
(13:14):
Well. Because people think that
they're entitled to have everyone validate their
emotions, which is not true. Like in a relationship, I'm
going to validate your emotions because we're in a relationship,
right? But it would be unreasonable for
me or you to expect people who are not in our relationship to
randomly validate our emotions just because we have them,
right? But this is the expectation that
(13:35):
people have for. Therapy, I think too, it's not
even validating, I think that they don't even understand that
someone can validate your emotions.
Yeah, and you still not get whatyou want because I think the Oh
yeah, yeah. Is people here validate even and
they think, OK, well, if I tell somebody they didn't validate my
(13:56):
emotions, then they need to agree with me in order for me to
feel feel validated, right. That's not the same.
That's. Not that's not emotional
validation. Right, that's not the same, but.
There's two different things here cuz I'm even saying like to
one level higher. It's like OK when you're in the
real world and your boss doesn'tvalidate your emotions, right?
Really actually doesn't tough. It's like you have to deal with
(14:18):
not everyone validating your emotions.
Right, But now they can't because they've created the
standard of everybody has to validate my emotions, right,
right. Including going to therapy and
having the therapist do it, right.
When that's not how the real, that's what I was trying to say
is that if we went back to how it was not way far back where,
you know, there's like generational trauma and like
(14:39):
your parents are treating their kids the way that they were
treated. And like, you know, not really
reflecting inward. Because I feel like you and I,
we don't run into this problem because we reflect inward, but
not in a, I'm going to use the word manipulative, but that is
what this has become with this stuff.
Like, because if I was like, you're gaslighting me, you're
(15:00):
acting like a narcissist, that would be me manipulating you.
Right. Yeah, in the.
Situation. Yeah, unless it's unless it's
very accurate. Right, like unless it's super
specific. And I can like, OK, this thing
that you just said that's manipulative.
Like, This is why? Like this is emotional
manipulation. But even then, you probably
wouldn't even acknowledge it, soit's like you have to.
Again, you would have to know that for yourself.
(15:22):
But if I'm like the boy who cried wolf and all that, that's
emotional manipulation, then what does it mean?
It doesn't have any meaning because they're just crying at
all the time. But if it's like, no, look, look
what you just said to me was wasmanipulative and here's why and.
Like which you have told me those things before.
Only when it's really actually. Be like right, OK.
(15:43):
But I don't say that all. I don't just throw that around
all the time. No, it's like something specific
that you've said and I just am pointing out to you why this is
manipulative, right? And then you get it and it make
you know what I'm saying, that'susing it not the right way.
I'm not beating you over the head.
That's how it's supposed to exactly because I'm not beating
you over the head with it. I'm trying to right to help to
understand so that it doesn't happen, right, right.
(16:05):
But now. It's used as a weapon literally.
And like I said before, it's in my opinion the scariest weapon
because on the outside, if people saw the interaction,
they'd be like, they didn't do anything wrong, right?
Because they're using therapy terms, which again, if they're,
(16:26):
if they're wrong for using thoseterms, then therapy is wrong
because they're using terms fromthis thing that's supposed to be
what everyone needs and helps them.
And so they literally learn it to get away with doing the bad
things that they should be wanting to try to unlearn, but
(16:48):
they just learned how to do thembetter and more under the under
the scenes. Yeah, 'cause it's like you, you
tell your partner you're like, you're a narcissist and then
they say stop gaslighting me, right, 'cause you are kind of
gaslighting them if you're telling them they're a
narcissist, right, 'cause when that's not, you're not a, you
don't have evidence that like, you know, it's, you're lightly
(17:09):
using that word, right. So then and then, and then
you're the conversation go, yeah.
And then it's like, well, you'reusing gaslighting as a
manipulation, right. OK.
Well then like you could just keep on going back and forth and
not really talk about anything. Right.
Exactly. It becomes shallow.
Weirdly enough, therapy is supposed to be going deep,
right? But because we use these words
this way, yeah, like you said, the conversations have become so
(17:33):
shallow, right? Because you're just labeling
everything. And even with therapy, labeling
was not supposed to be like, oh,hi, I'm Nicole.
I have anxiety. No, it's supposed to be like,
hi, I'm Nicole. And like, I get anxious flying
on airplanes. So this is what I do in order to
fly on an airplane. Not like labeling yourself,
(17:55):
right? Exactly.
And like with all the therapy terms, there's also become all
these diagnosis that we're diagnosing ourselves with.
Yeah. And then people are identifying
with those. And so then they're not actually
getting better, right? And then they want people to do
whatever they want because they have this.
(18:15):
And then now they have the termstoo, like, oh, you're you know,
you're not validating, right? You know my experience, right?
Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah. What does that even mean?
This is the whole thing I we've talked about before, we've had
to talk about this with with ourdaughter, but it's like you're
coming over to my house, jumpingin my pool.
You don't know how to swim and you're drowning.
(18:36):
And then I'm throwing you a lifepreserver and then you're like,
I don't want it. Like don't come.
Fine. If you're not going to take the
life preserver, don't come over to my house, jump in my pool and
drown, right? Like you've got the problem.
So if you're like, well, I'm bipolar or I'm whatever it is
like, OK, then you learn how to manage that, right?
(18:59):
Don't expect that everyone else has to accommodate you and you
come over and drown in their pools and now.
Right. It's supposed to be like you
learning how to face the world in a way that doesn't allow
these things to control your life, right?
But it's like they're using those things to control other
people's lives. Does that make sense?
(19:19):
Exactly, you have to accommodate.
The problem that I have, and this is coming from because, you
know, people probably will say whatever they want to say, but
this is coming from two people here that highly value working
on themselves, right? And will own up to the things
that they do wrong and take accountability.
(19:40):
That is how you're actually supposed to do it.
That is how therapy is supposed to work.
Like you're supposed to talk about the things your therapist
is supposed to, you know, talk to you in a way where you
realize the things, the issues that you have, right, and help
you figure out how to face the world with those things, right?
In a way where you're changing how you go about doing things,
(20:03):
not you changing other people. Or trying to, yeah, change the
world to adapt to you. Right, right.
And it's just unfortunately beenused, yeah, for bad for quite a
while now, which upsets me because it was this thing that
everybody's like, yeah, like, goto therapy.
It'll help heal your problems and fix all these things.
(20:25):
And I do believe it's capable ofdoing those things.
But too many people are in therapy who don't wanna actually
do the work. Right.
And they wanna use it out like Isaid.
Well, it hinders your relationship, right?
Because also even like defensiveness, if you're just
like if everything your partner says you're being defensive,
(20:45):
right? OK, sometimes that is true, but
if you're using that all the time, then it's like, OK, well,
I can't say anything, right? Because you're just gonna say
I'm defensive. Like if you ask me a question,
right? Like why did you do this?
And I'm like, well, I did this because it's stop being
defensive, right? It's like, OK, then you ask
like, I can't communicate to you, right?
If it's like which? We've even run into that before,
(21:06):
honestly. But that's not therapy speaking.
It's not like. But there's times when you need
to like be like, OK, look, This is why you're being defensive.
Again, even the same thing. If it's like you have to explain
to someone why they're very manipulative or why they're
being defensive, you can't just throw it around all the time
because then that's the problem is you're hurting the
(21:28):
communication, right, By labeling.
Yeah. Whereas it's like, just deal
with the thing if you need to. Like you only need to label it
if it's like a pattern that keeps on occurring and you need
a word for it in order to describe it so they can see.
It right, because we all get anxious, we all get depressed,
we all get these things, right. But if you call yourself those
things right now, you're taking it on and now you are
(21:49):
identifying with it. And then you're gonna have a way
different experience just than being like, oh, I'm feeling
anxious right now because, you know, this, this and that or,
you know, I've been a little depressed lately, but maybe
there's something that I can do to help with that.
You know what I mean? That's a way different.
And that's what therapy is supposed to be like.
Even when I was in therapy, I didn't want my therapist to just
(22:10):
be like, oh, yeah, you're right.Like everybody, whatever, you
know, she would be like, hey, don't you think that maybe that
this is a pattern and like, thisis something we could work on?
That's what I want, yeah, but that's not what what people want
when they're using therapy wordsto attack people.
And it, and it Shields them because people, how many times
(22:31):
have you heard people say I, I just, I, I was manic at the time
or I was having a manic episode and that's why I did what I did
or I behaved this way. And it's like, OK.
It's like an excuse. If you, if you think that, if
that maybe you know, you're probably self diagnosed, but
even if you got a diagnosis froma psychiatrist, which a lot of
times they're just handing out those diagnosis like candy right
(22:53):
now, like you're still responsible.
Like even if that is a valid condition that you have, you're
still responsible for being bipolar.
Like not on not someone else's responsible.
Because it's the same thing as if I was like, Oh yeah, I didn't
have a lot of sleep when I was cranky.
Like, OK, right. I understand why that would move
you in the direction of of having a short, you know, amount
(23:13):
of patience and, and maybe snapping or saying something
nasty, but it doesn't excuse it.Right.
That's like people being like, you triggered me.
No, you were triggered, right? And then you chose to respond in
a way because you can be triggered and consciously think
about how you're going to respond and not lash out at
somebody or call them names or attack them, Right.
(23:36):
But these days, it's like, you triggered me, right?
It's your fault. Yeah.
That's what the issue I have is with the therapy speak these
days with a lot of the words like the gas lighting and the
narcissism, like whatever. All those things.
Yeah. Or is it's your fault, not mine?
Yeah, it's like, look, if you'redriving down the road, OK, and
you got a busted ass car and yougot one, one of your tires is
(23:58):
flat or whatever, and then you try to like hit your brakes, but
your brakes don't work very good.
And then you slam into the car in front of you, right?
It's like. It's your fault that you were in
front of me. Or you can't be like, oh, my car
is so busted. That's why.
Yeah, I agree. But it's still your fault.
Like you're still like, you had to fix this busted car.
(24:19):
So if you have a, if you're driving around with your busted
car and you're endangering otherpeople, which is what I'm saying
is like, let's say you have somecondition, you're bipolar or
whatever it is. If you haven't learned how to
manage it, then don't be out like run into other people and
then calling it their problem like because you're, you're a
danger. Like you, if you have a car that
that needs to be in the shop, you know, don't drive it out and
(24:42):
then get into accidents and thenbe upset with people because you
got into accidents. That's what's happening.
It's like because, you know, mentally, maybe you're not in a
stable place. So don't get into all these
interactions with people and then 'cause accidents.
Yeah, well, and honestly, I think it's driving people
further apart than together. Like, again, therapy was
supposed to be this good thing that like helps you work through
(25:05):
stuff so you can connect better with the people in your life.
And the way that people are using the therapy speak and
things like that, honestly is creating a further divide
because again, it does nothing but blame other people, right?
And the weird thing is, is that people use the terms to attack
someone else, right? To, like you said, shield
(25:28):
themselves and kind of come across as they're not attacking
somebody cuz they're using the right words.
Yeah, exactly. But they don't realize that
you're attacking somebody like even if you're using therapy
terms that seem innocent and youcan't be seen as attacking them
with those you are like. And it's becoming more prevalent
(25:48):
now because it's being used so much in the wrong way that I do
think we are catching on to that.
But it's like a way for people to think that they're holier
than the person that they're attacking, like they're perfect.
Right. Exactly because they're using
this perfect terminology to attack you, who's not perfect.
(26:11):
And then and then ultimately, whether they know it or not,
they feel worse about themselves, right?
Because they know they're attacking you.
They know what they're doing. Right.
They just disguised it right? And then it perpetuates, right?
They learn new words and they learn to attack you in a
different way where they can be untouched and they end up alone
because no one also wants to be around somebody that's
(26:33):
constantly attacking them and thinking that they have they're
doing nothing wrong and it's allyou.
It's all the person in your life.
Then they end up with nobody because they attack everyone in
their lives. And so if you do this to your
partner, you are going to push your partner further and further
away and hurt yourself. Because you're violating trust,
(26:54):
right? Because it's not.
It's because it's, yeah, it's disingenuous, right?
Disingenuous communication. Right, it's just a mass.
And it's used as deflection too,right?
Because then you can actually talk to the person because
they're like, you're not holdingemotional space for me or you're
not valuing my emotions. And it's like, well, I'm just
trying to tell you something. You're attacking me, right?
Even the word attacking can be used, right?
(27:15):
It's like, well, no, like if I tell you something you don't
like, it doesn't mean I'm attacking you, right?
You know what I'm saying? Oh, now you're gaslighting me.
And it's like so then you can't even get through.
To talk to the person at. All yeah, when you can't
communicate to the person because they keep on using all
these deflection terms which arecorrect terms, then it's like
you're you're talking to a wall.Exactly.
(27:36):
And then nothing actually gets fixed.
Exactly. And then what happens?
You have to eventually stop interacting with that person
because they don't understand. They understand what they're
doing, but they think that they're doing it in the right
way. And again, the way that they can
get away with until no one wantsto be around them because you,
(27:56):
like you said, you can't even talk to them to be like, hey,
you like, I just want to talk toyou.
Right. Yeah, not.
Not the therapy talk I want to talk to.
You is there someone inside there that we're like, let's
off? Can we talk off the record like
because you're like, can we stopthe recording and actually talk
for real? Right.
It's very shallow. It's very, you know, it has no
(28:18):
substance, no issues actually get solved.
Right, exactly. And that's.
You know the issue too with the validating thing, cuz again,
that can also be weaponized. You're not validating me.
And then when you go to therapy and your therapist is just
validating you, what have you learned?
You learn that you're always right, right?
And that you have a bunch of words now that you can use
(28:38):
against other people to prove why why you're always right.
Right. And people are gonna make
mistakes too. I think that's the other thing
is it's like someone might say something that is somewhat
manipulative, right? That's just normal.
It happens. We don't mean to.
Our parents guilt us all the time.
They guilt trip us. They don't intentionally mean
to, right? They're like, they make you feel
bad about something, like, OK, yeah, sometimes you need to call
(29:02):
it out when it's getting to an extreme level or, or something
that's being used as a as a tactic.
But in everyday conversation, especially when you're
discussing something with your partner and they might say
something that feels a little bit like gaslighting or feels a
little bit manipulative or feelsa little bit defensive, you
don't need to call them all out.Like you need to reserve that
(29:23):
for the times where it's absolutely necessary in order to
progress further. Like because if it's blocking
the communication, if it's like,let's say someone's being super
defensive and that's preventing you from actually talking to
them, then you would say it, right?
Or if they're like really rewriting history and that's
(29:43):
making it so they can't honestlysee what's actually happening.
I wouldn't even use the term gaslighting then I would just
like cuz it's there's no need just to say like you're you're
you're you're, you know, you're not representing the things
correctly. Right.
That's what I guess I'm trying to say is like you don't have to
even use these words to get yourpoint across and you shouldn't
at this point because it is another way.
(30:05):
It's a pattern, just like what you said.
If like the defensiveness is a pattern, right, then bring up in
a way where you can actually still have a conversation, but
the therapy speak can sometimes be a pattern where you can't
have an actual conversation. So that that is what the problem
actually is. And the reality is honestly, we
all have narcissistic tendencies.
(30:26):
We all can gaslight, we can all lie.
We can all do all the things that we can all invalidate
people. Nobody is immune to that.
And you never will be, no matterif you learn all the words, no
matter if you learn all the things, no matter if you're a
therapist. It doesn't matter.
So like, people need to just getreal with themselves.
(30:48):
They need to stop trying to findthe way where they're protected
from doing the wrong thing because you're going to do the
wrong thing. And if you think that there's a
way where you can't do the wrongthing, you're going to harm
people more, usually trying to prevent yourself from being
wrong, and then you end up blaming everyone else and then
(31:08):
no one wants to be around you. Right And then what we always
say like in our relationship too, is like to give the benefit
of the doubt, right, to figure. So it's like you have to figure
out, cuz if you just throw some therapy terms to block whatever
someone saying, it's like, well,why are they saying this to you?
Right? If you can sure say, oh, well,
that's not emotionally validating mirror that feels
(31:30):
that's defensive. But it's like, well, what is
their actual intent? Are they really, are they trying
to, like, attack you or they actually trying to get through
to you to make you understand a certain thing?
Yeah. And that's why it's probably
good to just even just ban the therapy words from your
relationship because also they're a shortcut, right?
(31:50):
So it's like if you use the wordabuse again, it's a loaded word.
Like what does that mean exactly?
Is it words? Is it physical, right?
What extent is it? Did you just say something that
someone didn't like and they're they're mislabeling it, right?
Because that's that's the issue.Shortcut.
It's like, yeah, instead of actually explaining the real
thing, like you can just throw the label and say abuse or
(32:12):
that's narcissistic or whatever it is, and it's like, well, or
that's manipulative. But if you can't use those
vocabulary, that's a shortcut, right?
It's useful for a therapist because then they can encompass
this whole idea and one thing. You don't have to explain the
entire thing over and over again, right?
That's what it's for. That's why you have that right.
But in an actual situation, you need to talk about the situation
(32:35):
in a relationship instead of labeling it as like, you're
being abusive to me, right? It's like don't say that and
said say when you said this thing, this wasn't OK because of
like explain exactly what you mean by the thing because it's
just it's a lazy way of fighting.
Right it is. That's what it is.
(32:55):
Well. And it's like at this point,
it's also to just gonna make somebody defend themselves,
like, yeah. Because again, it's like, even
if you have a problem with somebody and they are exhibiting
those behaviors, like you said, you're not really getting to the
root of the problem. So like, if your intention is to
actually work through this or fix this problem or have the
(33:16):
person acknowledge it, why are you using terms that aren't
gonna effectively do that like you think they are?
Cuz again, like you said, a therapist uses it, so it must be
the way to do it, right? But if you just call somebody a
narcissist and you're like, you're just being such a
narcissist, they don't know how to fix that, right?
(33:36):
Like, what if the way you're being a narcissist is that you
don't pick the restaurant that they want to eat at the majority
of the time, Right. Yeah.
That's like, you're not going toknow that by just calling
somebody a narcissist. And that's not even like the
actual textbook definition. There's so many things that go
(33:58):
into it and. Like you're avoiding the
underlying issue instead of saying a lot of the time you
pick the restaurant without taking in regard what restaurant
I want to go to. That's the actual issue.
Right. In fact, they don't feel you.
Resolve an issue if you don't know what it is, right?
So you have to say what the actual issue is instead of using
a word. Right.
Which is I feel like it's what we do majority of the time and
(34:21):
that's why, you know, it's hard to do whole episode because we
don't use these kind of words and we can see where they've
become really damaging and weaponizing, but.
But but a lot. Of it does, yeah, a lot of
people are doing these sort of things, but it is more
beneficial to talk about the actual situation.
(34:43):
That's what I was saying earlierwhere I was like, we need to go
back to like, just actually talking about what bothers us,
right? Not label everything right with
these words that half the peopledon't even really know what they
mean and they're not using them the way that they should be
used. It affects us more in parenting,
I would say. I think that's yeah, because
then we get that and then it's like even even it's just
(35:04):
difficult like for schools and and therapists or doctors when
it's like, you know, are you depressed?
And it's like, yeah, I, I have depression, right.
It's like, well, you're asking akid that and they've been told
that or that like they they're using again, that's.
Or their feelings feel really big and they feel like a nine
(35:26):
out of 10. Or they say they're being abused
when they're not being abused, like.
Because they got their phone taken away or something.
That's not the Yeah, but now they have the terms to say or
that my emotions don't get validated by my parents, right?
It's like, you know, at that canbe true, right?
But a lot of times that's not not true.
It's like you're upset because you didn't get what you wanted,
(35:48):
right? It's not the same thing.
But then when you tell someone you know that your emotions
aren't being validated by your parents or you tell your
therapist that you know, it's like, so.
I mean, parents have to deal with this.
Right kind of issue. Well, and I think honestly, it's
it's not just kids learning it, but I mostly see it with younger
people using it in this sort of way.
(36:11):
I'm not saying that adults don'teither.
I think they do as well. Right.
But you know, our generation andolder, they were the kind of
like anti therapy. I mean, maybe mine and yours is
like when people started actually going to therapy, but
definitely the ones before us, yeah, we're very anti therapy,
you know, No, not gonna go do that.
(36:32):
Yeah. So I do feel like it is more of
the younger generation. People are doing this, use that.
They'll say you need to go to therapy, you should do that.
That's what they. Used to say back to therapy,
yeah, of like, oh, you're not doing therapy right, You're not.
Everyone should be in therapy, right?
You know, which like they're, I'm not even trying to sit here
and tell you that therapy is notbeneficial.
(36:53):
The right kind of therapy is beneficial, but using the terms
to attack people and just going to be validated 24/7 and not
wanting to really reflect on what you came there to work on
because you went to therapy for a reason.
What did you go to therapy for? To to figure something out, to
heal something to make changes in your life.
(37:15):
Yeah. But by being validated with
everything, that's not going to do any of those things, right?
There is a part of being validated that does feel
healing. If you never were, sure.
But that's if you never. Were.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And but even then, I feel like if you're really, it's still
enlightened, you realize that that's not the end all, but
(37:35):
that's not going to solve all your.
Problems. Yeah, exactly.
Because it's just a Band-Aid, right?
Like, it feels good. I, I was explaining to one of my
coaching clients the other day, I was like, look, it's like a
bucket that has holes, holes in it.
Like, yeah, it feels good in themoment when that bucket is
filled, but it's just gonna empty.
And then you're gonna need to still fill that bucket, keep on
filling it because you can't fill that bucket.
It's like you have to figure outhow can you, you know, fix the
(37:57):
holes in the bucket, not try andkeep on filling the bucket
because then you're draining from everyone else trying to
fill your bucket all the time. And that's not, it's not good.
So, yeah, but that's true. Yeah.
And then it also, I think in their relationship too, like
you, you have to, I forgot what I was going to say about the Oh
no, no, that's what I was going to say is that sometimes,
(38:18):
because I hear this all the timewith a lot of my coaching
clients too, it's like there's they have therapists, right?
And people in a relationship will go and discuss their
relationship problems with theirtherapist instead of the person
they're in their relationship with, right?
And that's not a solution, right?
If you have a like, the therapy is for you to deal with your
(38:40):
internal self right? But if you have an issue with
your partner, you need to discuss those issues with your
partner, not with your therapist.
You can't fix a problem in the relationship.
Yeah, in a relationship with someone that's not in it.
Right, because they're going to give you a lot of a lot of times
they'll give you bad advice because they're seeing it only
(39:01):
you're only. Perspective.
That's also why ChatGPT is also not a good therapist exactly
because they're only seeing yourperspective.
Even if you're like, don't be biased towards what I'm saying
or whatever prompt you want to give ChatGPT, it's still going
to be biased. It doesn't have the full picture
because let's be real, even if you told a story and I told a
story, they're not going to sound the same.
(39:22):
And somewhere in the middle, it's what actually happened,
right? Even as two people that I feel
like we can be pretty brutally honest, right?
Even if we don't like it, that it, it's always going to be lost
in translation. So you can't go based on one
person's. Right, if anything, go on the
other person's if you want to get there therapy for you, have
your partner tell the therapist what happened instead of you
(39:44):
telling the therapist what happened.
Then you'll get a more accurate for yourself.
Yeah, you might not like it, butyou know what I'm saying, But it
at least it'll be biased in the other direction, because if you
bias things in your own direction, you're not going to
learn. That's the thing.
It's like you'd be better off biasing in the other direction.
But if you bias things all in your own direction, it's not
going to learn. Well, and a lot of times too
(40:05):
with, with therapy, you know. When they actually see your
interactions with in real life, it changes the advice, right?
Because when you're just tellingthe therapist this thing,
they're validating you and saying, Oh yeah, you're being
gas lit. It sounds like you're married to
a narcissist or whatever it is. But then if they actually see
(40:27):
your interaction and they see what you're actually doing, then
it makes sense why this person acted this way or responded this
way or what you're describing. And so it's just not, it's not a
substitute for actually, you know, dealing with the issue
with your partner. Right.
And I have nothing against therapists.
I have plenty of people in my life that are therapists.
(40:48):
And I'm sure they're great therapists because they're great
people. Yeah, but it's like you can't
have your therapist also be the end all be all like the high and
mighty in your life, like the the person that's judging you.
Like you can't go there and be like, if they say I'm a good
person, then I'm a good person, you know what I mean?
(41:08):
Or be like my therapist said, you're a bad person, so you're a
bad person. 1 You shouldn't be doing that as a therapist.
I would think I'm not a therapist, but I would think
that you shouldn't even be leading your client to think
those things. But so many people act like the
therapy and the therapist is God, exactly.
Is like the one that's gonna determine if they get into
heaven or not. And I'm not even religious like
(41:31):
that, you know what I mean? But people treat it that way.
And I'm not saying they shouldn't have respect for their
therapist. They should like, that's a hard
job. Yeah.
To like, you know, take on everybody's.
But then you, but then they weaponize that.
They're like, oh, my therapist said this about you or my
therapist said that when you saythis, that I should respond this
way, right? It's like, just keep that to
yourself and respond that way, right?
(41:52):
You're using it as a weapon, right?
And it might not even be correctbecause you're biased, giving
them biased information, right? And then you're using that as a
weapon. So it's like.
Which is like, that's part of the problem, right?
Like you, you're their therapists are not the person
that's gonna determine who I am,especially from someone else's
account or even my own account. Yeah, like that's not.
(42:14):
Yeah, and I'm not. Gonna judge people.
I'm not a therapist but I do life coaching.
I do coaching right from my clients.
And when they tell me shit that happened to them that that
someone else did to them, I empathize with them.
And I say, wow, I'm. I mean, that sounds rough.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Yeah.
But then I focus on what? Can we can do what?
Then on them, I don't spend the time saying, Oh yeah, that
(42:36):
person is, is an asshole or whatever.
I'm like, and I and sometimes they get upset because I'm, I'm
like, well, what do you think might have you might have said
or, or did that cause them to respond that way or treat you
that way? Right.
They're like, what do you mean? I'm like, yeah, because I mean,
sure, people are responsible fortheir own actions, but but do
you think there's there's nothing that you like said or
(42:58):
did that would have caused you know, and and but but that's the
channel. Like so because if I'm coaching
you and I'm helping you, I can only fix you.
Yeah, I can't you know, I can't fix the world or your broken
relationships out there and how other people are.
I can only help you fix you, right.
And so and. Teaching you how to blame people
(43:18):
doesn't help you. And it doesn't mean that other
people aren't doing wrong things, right, But like you have
to like, if you're going to therapy, like a good therapist
would, would do, you know, I imagine with coaching, which is
to empathize with your situationand how you feel and, and
understand, understand your feelings, but then help you to
(43:40):
understand how to deal with those feelings, right?
Not how to not have those feelings, how to deal with those
feelings, right. And, you know, because otherwise
you're trying to like live in a bubble where you're like, OK, we
got to treat you like the boy inthe bubble.
We got to keep keep all the germs away from you because you
can't let anything bad happen toyou otherwise you because you
can't handle it because you're so fragile.
(44:02):
Yeah, you know, and that's The thing is like, so I mean,
sometimes, like I said, my clients will sometimes get upset
at me because I'm like, they're to they're like, well, what
about all these other people that are doing this stuff to me?
You're making it seem like it's all my fault, right?
But it's your responsibility. I can't.
It's your life. I can't do anything with them.
You tell them to come and do coaching and I can talk to them,
(44:23):
but I'm talking to you. So we're gonna fix you.
Yeah, you know, so. Yeah, No, I think you saying
fragile is what it is. Yeah.
They think it's strong and that they're, you know, conquering
the things by being like, oh, you're doing this like they're
labeling you now they're the therapist, right?
When you view your therapist is God, and now you learn the words
(44:44):
and you can be the therapist. Yeah.
And diagnose people without knowing anything, you feel like
God. Exactly.
Right. But really, you're actually the
most fragile, right? Because you can't even have an
actual conversation without deflecting or using your
shielding therapy terms to protect yourself.
(45:05):
You're not even exposing yourself.
You're not being actual actuallyvulnerable, which is what you're
supposed to do in therapy, right?
Yeah. Like you're just attacking
people and then hiding behind the thing and then wondering why
it's not working, right? That's why your therapy isn't
working is because you you don'treally understand what you're
there to do. You're not there to learn words,
(45:26):
to attack other people, to make yourself feel better.
You're there to heal yourself. Like you said, all you can focus
on is yourself. And even sometimes, like you
said, you have to face the hard stuff of like, well, what was
your part in this, this situation?
Yeah. Like that person hurt you and
they did this. I understand that.
But what was your part in the situation?
(45:47):
Need a new therapist? Right, but that's how it goes
these. Days you're blaming, victim
blaming. You're victim blaming.
My therapist is victim blaming. It's like, how do you?
Even they're trying to make me accountable, they're trying to
make me have a responsibility tohold, to be accountable for my
own actions or my own feelings and thoughts.
Right. Oh, can't, can't have that.
Need to get a new therapist? If you want to be weak and not
(46:09):
be able to handle the world, keep doing what you're doing.
But if you want to be able to handle the world and anything
that it throws at you, you have to actually be vulnerable.
You have to actually take accountability and you have to
actually make changes in your life, not expect other people to
cater to you. You have to learn how to
interact with the world, not be afraid to be triggered by it or
(46:36):
what are like, be wrong or be viewed a certain way.
And look, I've like done all of these things, probably like I'm
not perfect, but I'm coming hereto tell you these things because
it's the only way to actually feel better about yourself, to
actually feel in control of yourlife and to stop allowing other
(46:57):
people to put stuff on you. Right.
Yeah. Because otherwise it what it
really is, is a victim mindset. And that's what you know, you're
either taking responsibility foryour life and your actions and
your own emotions and thoughts, or you're blaming other people.
And then you have the victim mindset, 'cause you're making
yourself the victim, right? And that's the thing.
And that's what not what therapywas supposed to be.
(47:18):
Right. And do you want other people to
control your life or you to control your life?
Right. Yeah, so, but yeah, Well, good.
I think that's we we beat that horse to death.
Did we? I I.
Think though, unless you had. Something else we didn't talk
about, boundaries didn't. Oh, oh, yeah.
Wait. Oh, yeah, that's true.
That's a good point. Yeah.
So the boundaries versus what was the patho pathogelot
(47:41):
pathologizing? You messed me up.
Now you're you're like, can you?Please say this word so I don't
mess it up. You got me, you got me.
It's the pressure. But yeah, but well, I think
that's, that's The thing is, is if someone is well, even like I
think it's a good example, like let's say that someone is
gaslighting you, instead of calling them a gaslighter, you
(48:03):
can just have a boundary. I'm not gonna continue this
conversation right until we can actually talk about what's going
on, not label each other. Right, yeah, if you say this
like, you know, if you you can even have to have a boundary
around the therapy terms, like if you hit me with therapy terms
instead of the real issues, thenI I'm not gonna have this
(48:26):
conversation cuz I'm not cuz. It doesn't go anywhere, right?
Exactly. It's not.
It's not worth my time. It's not and boundaries you
control, right? Yeah.
You see, boundaries are things that you, yeah, you can't make
someone do something with your boundary.
Boundary is not expecting them to act any differently.
It's just to make it clear as towhat you're going to do so that
it's really for yourself to protect yourself.
(48:46):
Which unfortunately, boundaries have also been weaponized.
As well too the therapy because it is a therapy term, it's
boundaries. Right.
So it is difficult, but you willknow when someone's using it for
the wrong way, right? And I think that's what most
people have to watch out for because most people I don't
think are intentionally, if they're in the mindset that you
(49:10):
and I have, they're not going toset a boundary to manipulate
somebody intentionally. It might even come across that
way, but it's that's not intentional.
You know, if you're dealing withsomeone that is weaponizing a
lot of things and you'll know whether their boundary is
disguised as a threat or not. Because again, like you said it,
(49:31):
if they're throwing out a boundary, they have to do
something if that's crossed, notyou.
Right. Yeah, exactly.
They're trying to make you jump to the hoop or make you
responsible for their emotions or responsible for their
actions. Exactly.
Right. And that's not like it's, you
can't be like, oh, you made me do this.
Right. Right.
It's and I think the thing aboutit.
Is but people will try to say that though.
(49:53):
Yeah. Well, and the other thing is
like if you're using the word like don't, you don't need to
use the word boundary when you set a boundary, right?
Because then you're going to trigger people because you're
now using the the word that's loaded, right.
So you just need to spell it outwithout.
Feeling if you call me this name, I'm not going to right?
Don't say this is my boundary, because once you said that, now
you've lost all the power behindit, because now it feels like
(50:14):
you're manipulating using. The word unfortunately, because
all the words right now feel like manipulation.
They don't even feel genuine. Anymore, why did you use that
word? Why?
And you just say, look. Why didn't you just say the
boundary? And even, and even before you
set the boundary, like people are setting the boundary too
early to because they're using it as a, as a thing to, to
shield themselves from actually,you know, which allows them to
(50:36):
be like, you can create so much boundaries around yourself that
you're fragile because you can't, no one can talk to you in
any way. That's what's happening.
It's different like, you know, to have a boundary to say, OK,
if you, if you're going to speakto me in a, in a, in a way where
you're, if you're yelling at me or calling me names, I'm not
(50:57):
going to have a talk with you, right?
But if it's like, oh, if you've raised your voice at all, well,
we're not talking. If you said something negative
towards me at all, we're not talking.
Like now you've created, you've made this fragile space around
you where you can't have a real communication with someone
because oh, they better not elevate their tone at all.
You know what I'm saying? Like there's a difference
between yelling at someone and calling them names versus
(51:19):
elevating their tone, right or or whatever.
Like you have to have enough in there room to operate where
you're not where you're actuallylike using the boundary to
protect yourself. But even then, like you don't
need to drop the boundary right away.
Like the boundary needs to be something that is like
something's repeatedly happeningand the boundary is the only way
(51:39):
to solve this issue. Instead, you should be more
resilient, right? Like, you know, what I'm saying
is that I think that's the issueis that people aren't resilient
enough, especially in their relationships, because it gets
messy. Like even when we're trying to
work things out, it shouldn't goto the level of you calling me
names or me yelling at you or anything like that.
That's that should not be part of that, but it still.
(52:01):
Doesn't. No, and it doesn't, but, but it
still gets messy. Like I'm going to say something
that I shouldn't have said that might hurt your feelings.
And you're going to say something that you shouldn't
have said that might hurt my feelings.
And they might be somewhat manipulative or might be like,
because we're trying to navigateand we're trying to be better
at. Obviously everyone should try to
be. But if, if I set a boundary,
(52:21):
like a hard boundary, the minuteyou say something that hurts my
feelings that you shouldn't havesaid, then I've shut down the
communication, right? It's like, but if you're repeat,
like let's say that you just kept on calling me an asshole
while we're trying to talk, OK, then I would need to set it
because there's a reason to set that boundary.
But if you just said something that I didn't like and I start
(52:43):
setting the boundary, now I've shut down the communication
because now I can't, you know what I'm saying?
Like, like there's not enough range that you have to actually
say the truth to me because the truth offends me.
So I've set boundaries around I've I've blocked myself out and
made myself fragile. Yeah, I know what you're saying.
I think though, like there's never really an excuse to call
(53:06):
people names though, because. That's a hard boundary.
You know, it is possible not to do, even if people think that
they can't do it right. So I know you're, I'm just
picking on like the example thatyou used, but I don't.
I think that even saying I'm notgonna talk to you if you call me
an asshole is understandable. Personally, I said that's.
(53:29):
Well, you said if they keep calling you an.
Asshole. Yeah, sorry.
Yeah, one time is enough. Because I do feel like if you
allow like someone to continuously call you an
asshole, they're going to be like, well, you didn't say
anything when I said it the first five times, You know what
I mean? Which it's again, that's not
your responsibility. Like you were giving them grace,
(53:49):
but it is harder for them to understand if you allowed it to
happen certain amount of times. And then now you're drawing the
line, which I get that. It's like, you know, maybe you
didn't really care before, I don't know.
But just having our experience, I'm like, you cannot call people
names. Like I know it's possible.
Like being with you, I know a lot of things are possible that
(54:11):
people think are not possible, like not yelling and not calling
each other names. Those things are possible.
So again, like, I'm just saying that I, I don't think I would
allow somebody to call me an asshole multiple times in a
conversation. Sure.
Yeah. Before saying something.
But no, I agree. With you, if it's something that
you haven't encountered before, right, right.
(54:31):
Like, I mean, our relationship'sa little bit different, but if
it if somebody haven't encountered before, you might
need to say like someone calls you an asshole in, you know,
your partner in a, you know, it's a newer relationship and
you say I really don't like. Appreciate that.
Like, yeah. That's like when you said
calling me an asshole, like, canwe not do that?
Can we not do that? And then they do it again.
(54:51):
Then maybe you have to draw themout of like, all right, I told
you that I didn't like it, that it's not OK with me.
Now I'm going to tell you now that if you say that again that
this will end the conversation and future conversations, right?
Then you have see that's the proper way to set the boundary,
right? Because it's actually it's
actually inhibiting the conversation.
(55:12):
When you're communicating all this, you're not just like, like
you're fully communicating it, right?
You're not just shutting it downor labeling it something quickly
and then dismissing it and. It's not open for
interpretation, right? Because if you have, it's like
if I have my yard, right, and I have do not trespass signs on my
yard, but it's not clear where my yard is.
(55:34):
I don't have a fence or anything.
And you're like, OK, I don't know.
Am I am I am I in the yard? I don't know.
Like it's especially if it's an oddly shaped, you're like, I
need to have a have a sign, havea fence, have some kind of
delineation. Otherwise they don't even know
if they're caught. If it's if it's up to your
interpret. That's why I said like bullying
is a good example. It's a vague thing.
(55:56):
Yeah. You interpret one thing that I
might, I'm not interpreted as bullying, but maybe you
interpreted as bullying. I don't.
You can't have a boundary where where it's your interpretation.
It has to be a distinct thing. If you say this word, if you do
this thing, I will, you know, because otherwise it's
meaningless. Like, and also you're training
(56:16):
people to like to cater to your emotions instead of your like
the and that's the problem is that when you use those
boundaries in that way, then you're forcing people to walk on
egg shells. You're forcing people like
you're actually manipulating them because you're the one it's
like that game replayed. What was the the card game, the
dictator one that the Mao Mao Mao game.
(56:39):
It's like, I don't know, did I bake a rule?
Because you're the one who's telling me whether I broke the
rule or not. Like there's, it's not defined
anywhere, you know? So it's like, OK, you shouldn't
have to have. People don't want to live like
that, right? Yeah, yeah.
Which is why though, again, going back to kind of tie it all
together with the bow that the therapy speak people think is
(56:59):
helping them communicate more clearly, but it's actually not
at all. Like it's not specific.
It doesn't actually solve the problems.
It a lot of times causes more problems because you can't even
have an in depth conversation atthat point and you can't connect
deeply. And so, yeah, it's just.
And it's going to be a triggering word, like because of
(57:20):
how it's used now, right? Like if you tell someone, hey I
think you're being narcissistic,boom all of a sudden they're not
listening to you anymore. They're just going to defend
themselves or whatever, and thenyou're going to think they're
more narcissistic because they're defending themselves.
Instead, instead call out the thing that they're doing right.
Don't use the word narcissistic.Right, right.
(57:40):
Just actually talk. About the things like, it seems
like every time you're making itabout you in this conference
conversation, like for instance,I said this and then now you're
actually dealing with the real right issue.
Which is way more likely to actually get resolved.
Right, because it's even the same thing.
Like if someone, if you really feel like someone's gaslighting
you, if you say, hey, stop gaslighting me, they're going to
(58:01):
get triggered by that word, right?
Because it's going to have a lotof negative implications where
if you say, hey, I feel like what you're saying, it can be
the same definition of because like you're saying these things
and it feels like you're trying to convince me of things that I
don't actually believe. Right.
You know, now you're actually dealing with the real thing and
(58:24):
now you could actually say without triggering them, right?
Because if your intent is to really actually resolve the
issue and not just to to use it as a weapon to name call them,
then you would say what the issue is.
And you don't have to use that specific word, right?
Even abuse, you don't have to use that word.
You can say what you said was not OK or like you know so.
That's true, yeah. All right, now we've, now we've.
(58:49):
Dealt with it all OK. Good.
All right. Well, yeah, I guess we don't
really have anything for for this week since we're.
Recording that way. Back-to-back episodes, but.
Yeah, just follow us on our social media and you can visit
our website betterthanperfectpod.com.
(59:10):
Yeah, if you've got a question, you can e-mail us at
betterthanperfectpodcast@gmail.com.And leave review like share,
subscribe. I guess you could make like AI
don't know. I guess I could.
I could make an e-mail address for our website, but better than
Perfect pod or like info at yeah, Nicole, Nicole and John at
(59:35):
better than perfectpod.com. I don't know.
But yeah. Some Someday, when people
actually e-mail us, then we'll.
The way that people are using the therapy speak and things
like that, honestly is creating a further divide because again,
it does nothing but blame other people, right?
The weird thing is, is that people use the terms to attack
someone else to, like you said, shield themselves and kind of
come across as they're not attacking somebody because
they're using the right words. Yeah, exactly.
(00:22):
But they don't realize that you're attacking somebody like
even if you're using therapy terms that seem innocent and you
can't be seen as attacking them with those you are.
Beyond the perfect we discoveredthrough our flaws, we complete
each other. Better than perfect, we stay
(00:45):
through every. Fault we find no way.
All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast,
where every week we share with you how 2 imperfect people
helping each other grow equals 1better than perfect
relationship. I didn't do anything.
I know I. Had to look to see you and I
like, I couldn't do my peripheral vision because I'm
(01:07):
like, what is he doing? Everybody didn't do anything,
Yeah. That's right, switched to that.
Yeah. So what are we, what are we
talking about? This is a topic you came up
with. I mean, we're all just like
trying to come up with topics, but yeah, no, what?
What was the topic? It was about therapy, speak,
fatigue, Are we over diagnosing each other?
(01:29):
And this is about couples, but Ithink it's about people in
general, honestly. So, yeah, I mean, one of the
points was when couples start weaponizing terms like
gaslighting our narcissistic tendencies, right, which like we
don't necessarily do these things.
And I think it's because we haverealized the therapy speak kind
(01:57):
of cover up that a lot of peopledo at this point, unfortunately.
And so we don't typically use these things against each other.
You're a narcissist. Right.
We never say so. Gaslighting me.
Yeah. But we do know people that do
use those terms and things like that.
And so, yeah, just talking abouthow honestly, in my opinion,
(02:24):
right, this is worse than how things were before.
Yeah, exactly. I agree with you.
Yes, before people had these terms, right, Right.
Like when they just said ridiculous stuff, it's like you
knew who that person was. Now, unfortunately, a lot of the
people that use therapy speak are using it in a bad way.
(02:48):
Yeah. It's disguising.
Yes. Because you don't know who the
actual enemy is. Right.
Like and they're trying to present like they're not, but
they're, they are weaponizing it.
Weaponizing is a good word because they're learning these
terms and learning how to manipulate them in order to
(03:08):
appear correct, right? Where no one can tell them
they're wrong, right? Because then the therapy terms
would be wrong. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, they're hiding behind it.
Right, Yeah. And so I honestly think it's
worse. I think it is keeping people
stuck, right, in bad habits and tendencies that they're now
(03:30):
masking with these things. They're not actually fixing them
right, like therapy was supposedto be, to help you figure out
what struggles you have and how you can change the things that
you're doing in order to overcome them or live with them,
but live more normally. It's supposed to be about you,
right? Not about other people, right?
(03:50):
And so it's like if a therapist like, like, let's take
narcissism, right? Like, to understand that is only
to apply it to yourself is to see when you have narcissistic
tendencies, right? But you don't get to put that on
other people like that. Like, it's useful narcissism,
Like understanding narcissism isuseful, right?
(04:10):
Only when applied to the self. Yeah.
It's not useful because you, youare the only person who can know
if you're a narcissist, right? You can't know other people are
narcissists. Right, because you don't know
everything. About them, you know, you can
throw that around like like there's a lot sometimes you can
have a lot of evidence, but evenstill you you really can't know,
(04:30):
but you can know for yourself. You're saying this because I
feel like I, Yeah. Because we know some but but
yeah, but but like if a therapist is telling you that
you have that, like you know about narcissism and you're
having you're displaying some narcissistic tendencies, then
you can self reflect and say that, right?
Or or even if a therapist, I guess the therapist might say
(04:51):
that someone is gaslighting you,but then and again, it's not
meant to weaponize to use against them to say you're
gaslighting. It's for you to recognize that
you're being right. You're being told the version of
the truth that you're buying right, as opposed to, you know,
you, you using that to to let people know that they're gas.
(05:12):
That's not the like the boundaryis the thing to have because we
the the was the boundaries versus pathology pathology
pathologizing I. Guess pathologizing.
Yeah, see now. You got.
Yeah, but but, yeah, but but that's The thing is, is that
people are using these these terms, right?
(05:33):
And then and then you're right. Then they hide behind it.
Well, and then they're like, you're bad because the issue is
like people didn't want to go totherapy because they didn't want
to look like something was wrongwith them.
Right now everybody goes to therapy and uses the terms to
prove how everyone else is bad and there's something wrong with
them, right? Exactly.
But you're the one in therapy stealing the terms and being
like you're a narcissist. You're gaslighting, right?
(05:57):
Does that make sense? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Like, like you said, it's
supposed to be about you, right?Therapies.
You're supposed to go in to workon stuff that you're dealing
with, right? Not go in there and learn words
and be like, oh, you're a narcissist, right?
Because you have this. Or like it'd be the same thing
as someone's watching this this podcast and then they go to
(06:18):
their spouse and they say you need to watch this episode
because see, and better than perfect podcast, they're talking
about exactly what you're doing,which is not right, right.
Like it's like, no, this like ifyou're watching this, this is
for you to fix your shit. Yeah, it's not for you to go and
take it and use it to beat someone with.
That's doesn't solve problem. You can be like, let's watch it
(06:40):
together, but don't be like, you're doing all these things
wrong. You need to watch this video.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's again, it's like the
same sort of. Yeah, that's.
Sort of the idea. But it's also like the the you
take away the actual severity ofthe thing.
It's like when people what was it that they're misusing and it
(07:02):
takes away the of of like sexualharassment for for example,
right? Or like, or it was it was
something around sexual harassment.
I forget that we're having this discussion and it's like, well,
yeah, but when you use it so widely, like so lightly, then
you take away from people who have actually been victimized
(07:24):
like, you know, like, or if you're if you're claiming
something is like, all right, I'm not even going to say the
the one word, but we, we have this, you know, culture that
people say it's like tab, we're playing taboo right now.
You know, it's like, it's a blank culture, right?
People use that. When you use that, you're
actually doing a big disservice to people who have experienced
the thing because you're making light of it as if it's
(07:47):
everywhere. And and people are like, this is
a, you know, it's like, no, thisis a traumatic thing and you're
making it to normalize to light by using that word lightly.
Don't use these words lightly. Like narcissism is one, right?
The therapy is like, yeah, someone could really be a
narcissist, but if you're calling everybody and their mom
a narcissist because they disagree with you or they did
(08:10):
one selfish thing, then it doesn't have any effectiveness.
And then when someone actually is trying to use this to really
wake you up or in therapy, then it doesn't mean anything.
It should be a word or even manipulation is a word to where
it's like you're emotionally manipulating me.
If someone really is calling that out, is is.
(08:31):
But if you're crying that about every single thing everyone
says, then now you don't have exactly.
Now you don't have a level to gothat's to indicate the thing
because you're using it all the time.
So now what's the neck? There's no level.
Like it should be like gaslighting.
Same thing as this. Like, OK, are you just not?
Are you just hearing things thatyou don't like or someone really
(08:54):
actually telling you stuff that is making you like question
yourself? And they're trying to use this
to manipulate you to alter your sense of reality, right?
If they're really doing that, then yeah, call it out as
gaslighting. But if they're if, if all these
other lower things that you're calling gaslighting, then when
you actually say gaslighting when they're actually happening,
(09:16):
you can't tell the difference because you're using the same
word, right? You know, that's, that's my
biggest issue is that you're using the same word.
But that should be a severe word.
Right. But it's like a, it's, that's
what it should actually be. Not like a scale of it, like a
lower end of the scale, you knowwhat I mean?
That's why I didn't like when people are saying the word, even
(09:37):
the word financial abuse, right?Because I'm like, you're making
light of abuse. Abuse is a serious word, right?
Right. Like physically abused, verbally
abused. Those are serious things,
especially physically abusing someone or sexually abusing
someone, right. When you say financial abuse,
you're taking this powerful wordand you're diluting it because,
(09:57):
yeah, someone might be doing financially something that you
don't like or, or whatever. But now you're you're you're
taking away the power from that word for, for situations where
it's actually meaningful. And, and is, I mean, if even
just using the word abuse because people will say, oh,
you're abusing me or this is abuse.
Yeah. Is it really though?
Because if you're just throwing that word around, you're making
(10:19):
light of the word. And now we don't have a word
that describes their actual thing, so you're taking power
away from the people that need to actually describe what's
actually happening to. Them well, I think what we're
actually doing, like you said ismislabelling things like you
said. And so everybody is held to this
(10:42):
like criminal offense even if they didn't do what people are
claiming that they're doing. It's like we have lost all
capacity, which I like Raquel, the therapist that's online, she
talks about capacity. Because that's the real issue
here is like we went from no onewas in therapy and people really
(11:03):
needed therapy right? To now everyone is right.
But now it's made nobody accountable for themselves.
It's made everybody point fingers and blame other people,
right? Which is the even with.
Parenting like. Oh yeah, You know, people are
afraid to like, actually discipline and parent their kids
because what if their kids like,that's abusive or something?
(11:25):
You know what I mean? And like, like you said,
someone's going to hear the word, especially like an
authoritative figure. And it's going to be like, oh,
we need to investigate this or something.
And then it's just they just didn't like that.
Like we're teaching our kids andthe younger generation these
words that they don't truly meanand that they are using in ways
that they shouldn't be used a lot of the time.
(11:47):
I'm not saying all the time, buta lot of the time.
And then nobody can actually handle anything that's going on.
Like that's also why we're so divided and there's so much
hate. Oh yeah.
Against each other is because we're constantly trying to blame
the other person. And now we're using therapy
words, which are supposed to be to help people, right?
(12:08):
But now we're using them to harmpeople, right?
And they are harming people and they're harming us, right?
Because if you're actually focused on bettering yourself
and you know, working through whatever issues that you have,
you're, you're not going to be weaponizing the words used to
help yourself. You're not going to take those
(12:31):
and figure out a way to hurt other people with them, right?
Like therapy is supposed to be about helping people, right?
But majority of the stuff you see these days, especially
online, is harming people. Exactly, Yeah.
And even going into therapy and then your therapist is like, Oh
yeah, that person's a narcissistor whatever.
That's not helping you. Either.
(12:52):
No, it doesn't. Yeah, exactly.
And I'm not saying all therapists are like that, but
I'm like even the therapist now are like trying to validate the
person by labeling other people that they know nothing about,
right. And in order to try to help this
person, but even validating everything has caused problems.
(13:14):
Well. Because people think that
they're entitled to have everyone validate their
emotions, which is not true. Like in a relationship, I'm
going to validate your emotions because we're in a relationship,
right? But it would be unreasonable for
me or you to expect people who are not in our relationship to
randomly validate our emotions just because we have them,
right? But this is the expectation that
(13:35):
people have for. Therapy, I think too, it's not
even validating, I think that they don't even understand that
someone can validate your emotions.
Yeah, and you still not get whatyou want because I think the Oh
yeah, yeah. Is people here validate even and
they think, OK, well, if I tell somebody they didn't validate my
(13:56):
emotions, then they need to agree with me in order for me to
feel feel validated, right. That's not the same.
That's. Not that's not emotional
validation. Right, that's not the same, but.
There's two different things here cuz I'm even saying like to
one level higher. It's like OK when you're in the
real world and your boss doesn'tvalidate your emotions, right?
Really actually doesn't tough. It's like you have to deal with
(14:18):
not everyone validating your emotions.
Right, But now they can't because they've created the
standard of everybody has to validate my emotions, right,
right. Including going to therapy and
having the therapist do it, right.
When that's not how the real, that's what I was trying to say
is that if we went back to how it was not way far back where,
you know, there's like generational trauma and like
(14:39):
your parents are treating their kids the way that they were
treated. And like, you know, not really
reflecting inward. Because I feel like you and I,
we don't run into this problem because we reflect inward, but
not in a, I'm going to use the word manipulative, but that is
what this has become with this stuff.
Like, because if I was like, you're gaslighting me, you're
(15:00):
acting like a narcissist, that would be me manipulating you.
Right. Yeah, in the.
Situation. Yeah, unless it's unless it's
very accurate. Right, like unless it's super
specific. And I can like, OK, this thing
that you just said that's manipulative.
Like, This is why? Like this is emotional
manipulation. But even then, you probably
wouldn't even acknowledge it, soit's like you have to.
Again, you would have to know that for yourself.
(15:22):
But if I'm like the boy who cried wolf and all that, that's
emotional manipulation, then what does it mean?
It doesn't have any meaning because they're just crying at
all the time. But if it's like, no, look, look
what you just said to me was wasmanipulative and here's why and.
Like which you have told me those things before.
Only when it's really actually. Be like right, OK.
(15:43):
But I don't say that all. I don't just throw that around
all the time. No, it's like something specific
that you've said and I just am pointing out to you why this is
manipulative, right? And then you get it and it make
you know what I'm saying, that'susing it not the right way.
I'm not beating you over the head.
That's how it's supposed to exactly because I'm not beating
you over the head with it. I'm trying to right to help to
understand so that it doesn't happen, right, right.
(16:05):
But now. It's used as a weapon literally.
And like I said before, it's in my opinion the scariest weapon
because on the outside, if people saw the interaction,
they'd be like, they didn't do anything wrong, right?
Because they're using therapy terms, which again, if they're,
(16:26):
if they're wrong for using thoseterms, then therapy is wrong
because they're using terms fromthis thing that's supposed to be
what everyone needs and helps them.
And so they literally learn it to get away with doing the bad
things that they should be wanting to try to unlearn, but
(16:48):
they just learned how to do thembetter and more under the under
the scenes. Yeah, 'cause it's like you, you
tell your partner you're like, you're a narcissist and then
they say stop gaslighting me, right, 'cause you are kind of
gaslighting them if you're telling them they're a
narcissist, right, 'cause when that's not, you're not a, you
don't have evidence that like, you know, it's, you're lightly
(17:09):
using that word, right. So then and then, and then
you're the conversation go, yeah.
And then it's like, well, you'reusing gaslighting as a
manipulation, right. OK.
Well then like you could just keep on going back and forth and
not really talk about anything. Right.
Exactly. It becomes shallow.
Weirdly enough, therapy is supposed to be going deep,
right? But because we use these words
this way, yeah, like you said, the conversations have become so
(17:33):
shallow, right? Because you're just labeling
everything. And even with therapy, labeling
was not supposed to be like, oh,hi, I'm Nicole.
I have anxiety. No, it's supposed to be like,
hi, I'm Nicole. And like, I get anxious flying
on airplanes. So this is what I do in order to
fly on an airplane. Not like labeling yourself,
(17:55):
right? Exactly.
And like with all the therapy terms, there's also become all
these diagnosis that we're diagnosing ourselves with.
Yeah. And then people are identifying
with those. And so then they're not actually
getting better, right? And then they want people to do
whatever they want because they have this.
(18:15):
And then now they have the termstoo, like, oh, you're you know,
you're not validating, right? You know my experience, right?
Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah. What does that even mean?
This is the whole thing I we've talked about before, we've had
to talk about this with with ourdaughter, but it's like you're
coming over to my house, jumpingin my pool.
You don't know how to swim and you're drowning.
(18:36):
And then I'm throwing you a lifepreserver and then you're like,
I don't want it. Like don't come.
Fine. If you're not going to take the
life preserver, don't come over to my house, jump in my pool and
drown, right? Like you've got the problem.
So if you're like, well, I'm bipolar or I'm whatever it is
like, OK, then you learn how to manage that, right?
(18:59):
Don't expect that everyone else has to accommodate you and you
come over and drown in their pools and now.
Right. It's supposed to be like you
learning how to face the world in a way that doesn't allow
these things to control your life, right?
But it's like they're using those things to control other
people's lives. Does that make sense?
(19:19):
Exactly, you have to accommodate.
The problem that I have, and this is coming from because, you
know, people probably will say whatever they want to say, but
this is coming from two people here that highly value working
on themselves, right? And will own up to the things
that they do wrong and take accountability.
(19:40):
That is how you're actually supposed to do it.
That is how therapy is supposed to work.
Like you're supposed to talk about the things your therapist
is supposed to, you know, talk to you in a way where you
realize the things, the issues that you have, right, and help
you figure out how to face the world with those things, right?
In a way where you're changing how you go about doing things,
(20:03):
not you changing other people. Or trying to, yeah, change the
world to adapt to you. Right, right.
And it's just unfortunately beenused, yeah, for bad for quite a
while now, which upsets me because it was this thing that
everybody's like, yeah, like, goto therapy.
It'll help heal your problems and fix all these things.
(20:25):
And I do believe it's capable ofdoing those things.
But too many people are in therapy who don't wanna actually
do the work. Right.
And they wanna use it out like Isaid.
Well, it hinders your relationship, right?
Because also even like defensiveness, if you're just
like if everything your partner says you're being defensive,
(20:45):
right? OK, sometimes that is true, but
if you're using that all the time, then it's like, OK, well,
I can't say anything, right? Because you're just gonna say
I'm defensive. Like if you ask me a question,
right? Like why did you do this?
And I'm like, well, I did this because it's stop being
defensive, right? It's like, OK, then you ask
like, I can't communicate to you, right?
If it's like which? We've even run into that before,
(21:06):
honestly. But that's not therapy speaking.
It's not like. But there's times when you need
to like be like, OK, look, This is why you're being defensive.
Again, even the same thing. If it's like you have to explain
to someone why they're very manipulative or why they're
being defensive, you can't just throw it around all the time
because then that's the problem is you're hurting the
(21:28):
communication, right, By labeling.
Yeah. Whereas it's like, just deal
with the thing if you need to. Like you only need to label it
if it's like a pattern that keeps on occurring and you need
a word for it in order to describe it so they can see.
It right, because we all get anxious, we all get depressed,
we all get these things, right. But if you call yourself those
things right now, you're taking it on and now you are
(21:49):
identifying with it. And then you're gonna have a way
different experience just than being like, oh, I'm feeling
anxious right now because, you know, this, this and that or,
you know, I've been a little depressed lately, but maybe
there's something that I can do to help with that.
You know what I mean? That's a way different.
And that's what therapy is supposed to be like.
Even when I was in therapy, I didn't want my therapist to just
(22:10):
be like, oh, yeah, you're right.Like everybody, whatever, you
know, she would be like, hey, don't you think that maybe that
this is a pattern and like, thisis something we could work on?
That's what I want, yeah, but that's not what what people want
when they're using therapy wordsto attack people.
And it, and it Shields them because people, how many times
(22:31):
have you heard people say I, I just, I, I was manic at the time
or I was having a manic episode and that's why I did what I did
or I behaved this way. And it's like, OK.
It's like an excuse. If you, if you think that, if
that maybe you know, you're probably self diagnosed, but
even if you got a diagnosis froma psychiatrist, which a lot of
times they're just handing out those diagnosis like candy right
(22:53):
now, like you're still responsible.
Like even if that is a valid condition that you have, you're
still responsible for being bipolar.
Like not on not someone else's responsible.
Because it's the same thing as if I was like, Oh yeah, I didn't
have a lot of sleep when I was cranky.
Like, OK, right. I understand why that would move
you in the direction of of having a short, you know, amount
(23:13):
of patience and, and maybe snapping or saying something
nasty, but it doesn't excuse it.Right.
That's like people being like, you triggered me.
No, you were triggered, right? And then you chose to respond in
a way because you can be triggered and consciously think
about how you're going to respond and not lash out at
somebody or call them names or attack them, Right.
(23:36):
But these days, it's like, you triggered me, right?
It's your fault. Yeah.
That's what the issue I have is with the therapy speak these
days with a lot of the words like the gas lighting and the
narcissism, like whatever. All those things.
Yeah. Or is it's your fault, not mine?
Yeah, it's like, look, if you'redriving down the road, OK, and
you got a busted ass car and yougot one, one of your tires is
(23:58):
flat or whatever, and then you try to like hit your brakes, but
your brakes don't work very good.
And then you slam into the car in front of you, right?
It's like. It's your fault that you were in
front of me. Or you can't be like, oh, my car
is so busted. That's why.
Yeah, I agree. But it's still your fault.
Like you're still like, you had to fix this busted car.
(24:19):
So if you have a, if you're driving around with your busted
car and you're endangering otherpeople, which is what I'm saying
is like, let's say you have somecondition, you're bipolar or
whatever it is. If you haven't learned how to
manage it, then don't be out like run into other people and
then calling it their problem like because you're, you're a
danger. Like you, if you have a car that
that needs to be in the shop, you know, don't drive it out and
(24:42):
then get into accidents and thenbe upset with people because you
got into accidents. That's what's happening.
It's like because, you know, mentally, maybe you're not in a
stable place. So don't get into all these
interactions with people and then 'cause accidents.
Yeah, well, and honestly, I think it's driving people
further apart than together. Like, again, therapy was
supposed to be this good thing that like helps you work through
(25:05):
stuff so you can connect better with the people in your life.
And the way that people are using the therapy speak and
things like that, honestly is creating a further divide
because again, it does nothing but blame other people, right?
And the weird thing is, is that people use the terms to attack
someone else, right? To, like you said, shield
(25:28):
themselves and kind of come across as they're not attacking
somebody cuz they're using the right words.
Yeah, exactly. But they don't realize that
you're attacking somebody like even if you're using therapy
terms that seem innocent and youcan't be seen as attacking them
with those you are like. And it's becoming more prevalent
(25:48):
now because it's being used so much in the wrong way that I do
think we are catching on to that.
But it's like a way for people to think that they're holier
than the person that they're attacking, like they're perfect.
Right. Exactly because they're using
this perfect terminology to attack you, who's not perfect.
(26:11):
And then and then ultimately, whether they know it or not,
they feel worse about themselves, right?
Because they know they're attacking you.
They know what they're doing. Right.
They just disguised it right? And then it perpetuates, right?
They learn new words and they learn to attack you in a
different way where they can be untouched and they end up alone
because no one also wants to be around somebody that's
(26:33):
constantly attacking them and thinking that they have they're
doing nothing wrong and it's allyou.
It's all the person in your life.
Then they end up with nobody because they attack everyone in
their lives. And so if you do this to your
partner, you are going to push your partner further and further
away and hurt yourself. Because you're violating trust,
(26:54):
right? Because it's not.
It's because it's, yeah, it's disingenuous, right?
Disingenuous communication. Right, it's just a mass.
And it's used as deflection too,right?
Because then you can actually talk to the person because
they're like, you're not holdingemotional space for me or you're
not valuing my emotions. And it's like, well, I'm just
trying to tell you something. You're attacking me, right?
Even the word attacking can be used, right?
(27:15):
It's like, well, no, like if I tell you something you don't
like, it doesn't mean I'm attacking you, right?
You know what I'm saying? Oh, now you're gaslighting me.
And it's like so then you can't even get through.
To talk to the person at. All yeah, when you can't
communicate to the person because they keep on using all
these deflection terms which arecorrect terms, then it's like
you're you're talking to a wall.Exactly.
(27:36):
And then nothing actually gets fixed.
Exactly. And then what happens?
You have to eventually stop interacting with that person
because they don't understand. They understand what they're
doing, but they think that they're doing it in the right
way. And again, the way that they can
get away with until no one wantsto be around them because you,
(27:56):
like you said, you can't even talk to them to be like, hey,
you like, I just want to talk toyou.
Right. Yeah, not.
Not the therapy talk I want to talk to.
You is there someone inside there that we're like, let's
off? Can we talk off the record like
because you're like, can we stopthe recording and actually talk
for real? Right.
It's very shallow. It's very, you know, it has no
(28:18):
substance, no issues actually get solved.
Right, exactly. And that's.
You know the issue too with the validating thing, cuz again,
that can also be weaponized. You're not validating me.
And then when you go to therapy and your therapist is just
validating you, what have you learned?
You learn that you're always right, right?
And that you have a bunch of words now that you can use
(28:38):
against other people to prove why why you're always right.
Right. And people are gonna make
mistakes too. I think that's the other thing
is it's like someone might say something that is somewhat
manipulative, right? That's just normal.
It happens. We don't mean to.
Our parents guilt us all the time.
They guilt trip us. They don't intentionally mean
to, right? They're like, they make you feel
bad about something, like, OK, yeah, sometimes you need to call
(29:02):
it out when it's getting to an extreme level or, or something
that's being used as a as a tactic.
But in everyday conversation, especially when you're
discussing something with your partner and they might say
something that feels a little bit like gaslighting or feels a
little bit manipulative or feelsa little bit defensive, you
don't need to call them all out.Like you need to reserve that
(29:23):
for the times where it's absolutely necessary in order to
progress further. Like because if it's blocking
the communication, if it's like,let's say someone's being super
defensive and that's preventing you from actually talking to
them, then you would say it, right?
Or if they're like really rewriting history and that's
(29:43):
making it so they can't honestlysee what's actually happening.
I wouldn't even use the term gaslighting then I would just
like cuz it's there's no need just to say like you're you're
you're you're, you know, you're not representing the things
correctly. Right.
That's what I guess I'm trying to say is like you don't have to
even use these words to get yourpoint across and you shouldn't
at this point because it is another way.
(30:05):
It's a pattern, just like what you said.
If like the defensiveness is a pattern, right, then bring up in
a way where you can actually still have a conversation, but
the therapy speak can sometimes be a pattern where you can't
have an actual conversation. So that that is what the problem
actually is. And the reality is honestly, we
all have narcissistic tendencies.
(30:26):
We all can gaslight, we can all lie.
We can all do all the things that we can all invalidate
people. Nobody is immune to that.
And you never will be, no matterif you learn all the words, no
matter if you learn all the things, no matter if you're a
therapist. It doesn't matter.
So like, people need to just getreal with themselves.
(30:48):
They need to stop trying to findthe way where they're protected
from doing the wrong thing because you're going to do the
wrong thing. And if you think that there's a
way where you can't do the wrongthing, you're going to harm
people more, usually trying to prevent yourself from being
wrong, and then you end up blaming everyone else and then
(31:08):
no one wants to be around you. Right And then what we always
say like in our relationship too, is like to give the benefit
of the doubt, right, to figure. So it's like you have to figure
out, cuz if you just throw some therapy terms to block whatever
someone saying, it's like, well,why are they saying this to you?
Right? If you can sure say, oh, well,
that's not emotionally validating mirror that feels
(31:30):
that's defensive. But it's like, well, what is
their actual intent? Are they really, are they trying
to, like, attack you or they actually trying to get through
to you to make you understand a certain thing?
Yeah. And that's why it's probably
good to just even just ban the therapy words from your
relationship because also they're a shortcut, right?
(31:50):
So it's like if you use the wordabuse again, it's a loaded word.
Like what does that mean exactly?
Is it words? Is it physical, right?
What extent is it? Did you just say something that
someone didn't like and they're they're mislabeling it, right?
Because that's that's the issue.Shortcut.
It's like, yeah, instead of actually explaining the real
thing, like you can just throw the label and say abuse or
(32:12):
that's narcissistic or whatever it is, and it's like, well, or
that's manipulative. But if you can't use those
vocabulary, that's a shortcut, right?
It's useful for a therapist because then they can encompass
this whole idea and one thing. You don't have to explain the
entire thing over and over again, right?
That's what it's for. That's why you have that right.
But in an actual situation, you need to talk about the situation
(32:35):
in a relationship instead of labeling it as like, you're
being abusive to me, right? It's like don't say that and
said say when you said this thing, this wasn't OK because of
like explain exactly what you mean by the thing because it's
just it's a lazy way of fighting.
Right it is. That's what it is.
(32:55):
Well. And it's like at this point,
it's also to just gonna make somebody defend themselves,
like, yeah. Because again, it's like, even
if you have a problem with somebody and they are exhibiting
those behaviors, like you said, you're not really getting to the
root of the problem. So like, if your intention is to
actually work through this or fix this problem or have the
(33:16):
person acknowledge it, why are you using terms that aren't
gonna effectively do that like you think they are?
Cuz again, like you said, a therapist uses it, so it must be
the way to do it, right? But if you just call somebody a
narcissist and you're like, you're just being such a
narcissist, they don't know how to fix that, right?
(33:36):
Like, what if the way you're being a narcissist is that you
don't pick the restaurant that they want to eat at the majority
of the time, Right. Yeah.
That's like, you're not going toknow that by just calling
somebody a narcissist. And that's not even like the
actual textbook definition. There's so many things that go
(33:58):
into it and. Like you're avoiding the
underlying issue instead of saying a lot of the time you
pick the restaurant without taking in regard what restaurant
I want to go to. That's the actual issue.
Right. In fact, they don't feel you.
Resolve an issue if you don't know what it is, right?
So you have to say what the actual issue is instead of using
a word. Right.
Which is I feel like it's what we do majority of the time and
(34:21):
that's why, you know, it's hard to do whole episode because we
don't use these kind of words and we can see where they've
become really damaging and weaponizing, but.
But but a lot. Of it does, yeah, a lot of
people are doing these sort of things, but it is more
beneficial to talk about the actual situation.
(34:43):
That's what I was saying earlierwhere I was like, we need to go
back to like, just actually talking about what bothers us,
right? Not label everything right with
these words that half the peopledon't even really know what they
mean and they're not using them the way that they should be
used. It affects us more in parenting,
I would say. I think that's yeah, because
then we get that and then it's like even even it's just
(35:04):
difficult like for schools and and therapists or doctors when
it's like, you know, are you depressed?
And it's like, yeah, I, I have depression, right.
It's like, well, you're asking akid that and they've been told
that or that like they they're using again, that's.
Or their feelings feel really big and they feel like a nine
(35:26):
out of 10. Or they say they're being abused
when they're not being abused, like.
Because they got their phone taken away or something.
That's not the Yeah, but now they have the terms to say or
that my emotions don't get validated by my parents, right?
It's like, you know, at that canbe true, right?
But a lot of times that's not not true.
It's like you're upset because you didn't get what you wanted,
(35:48):
right? It's not the same thing.
But then when you tell someone you know that your emotions
aren't being validated by your parents or you tell your
therapist that you know, it's like, so.
I mean, parents have to deal with this.
Right kind of issue. Well, and I think honestly, it's
it's not just kids learning it, but I mostly see it with younger
people using it in this sort of way.
(36:11):
I'm not saying that adults don'teither.
I think they do as well. Right.
But you know, our generation andolder, they were the kind of
like anti therapy. I mean, maybe mine and yours is
like when people started actually going to therapy, but
definitely the ones before us, yeah, we're very anti therapy,
you know, No, not gonna go do that.
(36:32):
Yeah. So I do feel like it is more of
the younger generation. People are doing this, use that.
They'll say you need to go to therapy, you should do that.
That's what they. Used to say back to therapy,
yeah, of like, oh, you're not doing therapy right, You're not.
Everyone should be in therapy, right?
You know, which like they're, I'm not even trying to sit here
and tell you that therapy is notbeneficial.
(36:53):
The right kind of therapy is beneficial, but using the terms
to attack people and just going to be validated 24/7 and not
wanting to really reflect on what you came there to work on
because you went to therapy for a reason.
What did you go to therapy for? To to figure something out, to
heal something to make changes in your life.
(37:15):
Yeah. But by being validated with
everything, that's not going to do any of those things, right?
There is a part of being validated that does feel
healing. If you never were, sure.
But that's if you never. Were.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And but even then, I feel like if you're really, it's still
enlightened, you realize that that's not the end all, but
(37:35):
that's not going to solve all your.
Problems. Yeah, exactly.
Because it's just a Band-Aid, right?
Like, it feels good. I, I was explaining to one of my
coaching clients the other day, I was like, look, it's like a
bucket that has holes, holes in it.
Like, yeah, it feels good in themoment when that bucket is
filled, but it's just gonna empty.
And then you're gonna need to still fill that bucket, keep on
filling it because you can't fill that bucket.
It's like you have to figure outhow can you, you know, fix the
(37:57):
holes in the bucket, not try andkeep on filling the bucket
because then you're draining from everyone else trying to
fill your bucket all the time. And that's not, it's not good.
So, yeah, but that's true. Yeah.
And then it also, I think in their relationship too, like
you, you have to, I forgot what I was going to say about the Oh
no, no, that's what I was going to say is that sometimes,
(38:18):
because I hear this all the timewith a lot of my coaching
clients too, it's like there's they have therapists, right?
And people in a relationship will go and discuss their
relationship problems with theirtherapist instead of the person
they're in their relationship with, right?
And that's not a solution, right?
If you have a like, the therapy is for you to deal with your
(38:40):
internal self right? But if you have an issue with
your partner, you need to discuss those issues with your
partner, not with your therapist.
You can't fix a problem in the relationship.
Yeah, in a relationship with someone that's not in it.
Right, because they're going to give you a lot of a lot of times
they'll give you bad advice because they're seeing it only
(39:01):
you're only. Perspective.
That's also why ChatGPT is also not a good therapist exactly
because they're only seeing yourperspective.
Even if you're like, don't be biased towards what I'm saying
or whatever prompt you want to give ChatGPT, it's still going
to be biased. It doesn't have the full picture
because let's be real, even if you told a story and I told a
story, they're not going to sound the same.
(39:22):
And somewhere in the middle, it's what actually happened,
right? Even as two people that I feel
like we can be pretty brutally honest, right?
Even if we don't like it, that it, it's always going to be lost
in translation. So you can't go based on one
person's. Right, if anything, go on the
other person's if you want to get there therapy for you, have
your partner tell the therapist what happened instead of you
(39:44):
telling the therapist what happened.
Then you'll get a more accurate for yourself.
Yeah, you might not like it, butyou know what I'm saying, But it
at least it'll be biased in the other direction, because if you
bias things in your own direction, you're not going to
learn. That's the thing.
It's like you'd be better off biasing in the other direction.
But if you bias things all in your own direction, it's not
going to learn. Well, and a lot of times too
(40:05):
with, with therapy, you know. When they actually see your
interactions with in real life, it changes the advice, right?
Because when you're just tellingthe therapist this thing,
they're validating you and saying, Oh yeah, you're being
gas lit. It sounds like you're married to
a narcissist or whatever it is. But then if they actually see
(40:27):
your interaction and they see what you're actually doing, then
it makes sense why this person acted this way or responded this
way or what you're describing. And so it's just not, it's not a
substitute for actually, you know, dealing with the issue
with your partner. Right.
And I have nothing against therapists.
I have plenty of people in my life that are therapists.
(40:48):
And I'm sure they're great therapists because they're great
people. Yeah, but it's like you can't
have your therapist also be the end all be all like the high and
mighty in your life, like the the person that's judging you.
Like you can't go there and be like, if they say I'm a good
person, then I'm a good person, you know what I mean?
(41:08):
Or be like my therapist said, you're a bad person, so you're a
bad person. 1 You shouldn't be doing that as a therapist.
I would think I'm not a therapist, but I would think
that you shouldn't even be leading your client to think
those things. But so many people act like the
therapy and the therapist is God, exactly.
Is like the one that's gonna determine if they get into
heaven or not. And I'm not even religious like
(41:31):
that, you know what I mean? But people treat it that way.
And I'm not saying they shouldn't have respect for their
therapist. They should like, that's a hard
job. Yeah.
To like, you know, take on everybody's.
But then you, but then they weaponize that.
They're like, oh, my therapist said this about you or my
therapist said that when you saythis, that I should respond this
way, right? It's like, just keep that to
yourself and respond that way, right?
(41:52):
You're using it as a weapon, right?
And it might not even be correctbecause you're biased, giving
them biased information, right? And then you're using that as a
weapon. So it's like.
Which is like, that's part of the problem, right?
Like you, you're their therapists are not the person
that's gonna determine who I am,especially from someone else's
account or even my own account. Yeah, like that's not.
(42:14):
Yeah, and I'm not. Gonna judge people.
I'm not a therapist but I do life coaching.
I do coaching right from my clients.
And when they tell me shit that happened to them that that
someone else did to them, I empathize with them.
And I say, wow, I'm. I mean, that sounds rough.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Yeah.
But then I focus on what? Can we can do what?
Then on them, I don't spend the time saying, Oh yeah, that
(42:36):
person is, is an asshole or whatever.
I'm like, and I and sometimes they get upset because I'm, I'm
like, well, what do you think might have you might have said
or, or did that cause them to respond that way or treat you
that way? Right.
They're like, what do you mean? I'm like, yeah, because I mean,
sure, people are responsible fortheir own actions, but but do
you think there's there's nothing that you like said or
(42:58):
did that would have caused you know, and and but but that's the
channel. Like so because if I'm coaching
you and I'm helping you, I can only fix you.
Yeah, I can't you know, I can't fix the world or your broken
relationships out there and how other people are.
I can only help you fix you, right.
And so and. Teaching you how to blame people
(43:18):
doesn't help you. And it doesn't mean that other
people aren't doing wrong things, right, But like you have
to like, if you're going to therapy, like a good therapist
would, would do, you know, I imagine with coaching, which is
to empathize with your situationand how you feel and, and
understand, understand your feelings, but then help you to
(43:40):
understand how to deal with those feelings, right?
Not how to not have those feelings, how to deal with those
feelings, right. And, you know, because otherwise
you're trying to like live in a bubble where you're like, OK, we
got to treat you like the boy inthe bubble.
We got to keep keep all the germs away from you because you
can't let anything bad happen toyou otherwise you because you
can't handle it because you're so fragile.
(44:02):
Yeah, you know, and that's The thing is like, so I mean,
sometimes, like I said, my clients will sometimes get upset
at me because I'm like, they're to they're like, well, what
about all these other people that are doing this stuff to me?
You're making it seem like it's all my fault, right?
But it's your responsibility. I can't.
It's your life. I can't do anything with them.
You tell them to come and do coaching and I can talk to them,
(44:23):
but I'm talking to you. So we're gonna fix you.
Yeah, you know, so. Yeah, No, I think you saying
fragile is what it is. Yeah.
They think it's strong and that they're, you know, conquering
the things by being like, oh, you're doing this like they're
labeling you now they're the therapist, right?
When you view your therapist is God, and now you learn the words
(44:44):
and you can be the therapist. Yeah.
And diagnose people without knowing anything, you feel like
God. Exactly.
Right. But really, you're actually the
most fragile, right? Because you can't even have an
actual conversation without deflecting or using your
shielding therapy terms to protect yourself.
(45:05):
You're not even exposing yourself.
You're not being actual actuallyvulnerable, which is what you're
supposed to do in therapy, right?
Yeah. Like you're just attacking
people and then hiding behind the thing and then wondering why
it's not working, right? That's why your therapy isn't
working is because you you don'treally understand what you're
there to do. You're not there to learn words,
(45:26):
to attack other people, to make yourself feel better.
You're there to heal yourself. Like you said, all you can focus
on is yourself. And even sometimes, like you
said, you have to face the hard stuff of like, well, what was
your part in this, this situation?
Yeah. Like that person hurt you and
they did this. I understand that.
But what was your part in the situation?
(45:47):
Need a new therapist? Right, but that's how it goes
these. Days you're blaming, victim
blaming. You're victim blaming.
My therapist is victim blaming. It's like, how do you?
Even they're trying to make me accountable, they're trying to
make me have a responsibility tohold, to be accountable for my
own actions or my own feelings and thoughts.
Right. Oh, can't, can't have that.
Need to get a new therapist? If you want to be weak and not
(46:09):
be able to handle the world, keep doing what you're doing.
But if you want to be able to handle the world and anything
that it throws at you, you have to actually be vulnerable.
You have to actually take accountability and you have to
actually make changes in your life, not expect other people to
cater to you. You have to learn how to
interact with the world, not be afraid to be triggered by it or
(46:36):
what are like, be wrong or be viewed a certain way.
And look, I've like done all of these things, probably like I'm
not perfect, but I'm coming hereto tell you these things because
it's the only way to actually feel better about yourself, to
actually feel in control of yourlife and to stop allowing other
(46:57):
people to put stuff on you. Right.
Yeah. Because otherwise it what it
really is, is a victim mindset. And that's what you know, you're
either taking responsibility foryour life and your actions and
your own emotions and thoughts, or you're blaming other people.
And then you have the victim mindset, 'cause you're making
yourself the victim, right? And that's the thing.
And that's what not what therapywas supposed to be.
(47:18):
Right. And do you want other people to
control your life or you to control your life?
Right. Yeah, so, but yeah, Well, good.
I think that's we we beat that horse to death.
Did we? I I.
Think though, unless you had. Something else we didn't talk
about, boundaries didn't. Oh, oh, yeah.
Wait. Oh, yeah, that's true.
That's a good point. Yeah.
So the boundaries versus what was the patho pathogelot
(47:41):
pathologizing? You messed me up.
Now you're you're like, can you?Please say this word so I don't
mess it up. You got me, you got me.
It's the pressure. But yeah, but well, I think
that's, that's The thing is, is if someone is well, even like I
think it's a good example, like let's say that someone is
gaslighting you, instead of calling them a gaslighter, you
(48:03):
can just have a boundary. I'm not gonna continue this
conversation right until we can actually talk about what's going
on, not label each other. Right, yeah, if you say this
like, you know, if you you can even have to have a boundary
around the therapy terms, like if you hit me with therapy terms
instead of the real issues, thenI I'm not gonna have this
(48:26):
conversation cuz I'm not cuz. It doesn't go anywhere, right?
Exactly. It's not.
It's not worth my time. It's not and boundaries you
control, right? Yeah.
You see, boundaries are things that you, yeah, you can't make
someone do something with your boundary.
Boundary is not expecting them to act any differently.
It's just to make it clear as towhat you're going to do so that
it's really for yourself to protect yourself.
(48:46):
Which unfortunately, boundaries have also been weaponized.
As well too the therapy because it is a therapy term, it's
boundaries. Right.
So it is difficult, but you willknow when someone's using it for
the wrong way, right? And I think that's what most
people have to watch out for because most people I don't
think are intentionally, if they're in the mindset that you
(49:10):
and I have, they're not going toset a boundary to manipulate
somebody intentionally. It might even come across that
way, but it's that's not intentional.
You know, if you're dealing withsomeone that is weaponizing a
lot of things and you'll know whether their boundary is
disguised as a threat or not. Because again, like you said it,
(49:31):
if they're throwing out a boundary, they have to do
something if that's crossed, notyou.
Right. Yeah, exactly.
They're trying to make you jump to the hoop or make you
responsible for their emotions or responsible for their
actions. Exactly.
Right. And that's not like it's, you
can't be like, oh, you made me do this.
Right. Right.
It's and I think the thing aboutit.
Is but people will try to say that though.
(49:53):
Yeah. Well, and the other thing is
like if you're using the word like don't, you don't need to
use the word boundary when you set a boundary, right?
Because then you're going to trigger people because you're
now using the the word that's loaded, right.
So you just need to spell it outwithout.
Feeling if you call me this name, I'm not going to right?
Don't say this is my boundary, because once you said that, now
you've lost all the power behindit, because now it feels like
(50:14):
you're manipulating using. The word unfortunately, because
all the words right now feel like manipulation.
They don't even feel genuine. Anymore, why did you use that
word? Why?
And you just say, look. Why didn't you just say the
boundary? And even, and even before you
set the boundary, like people are setting the boundary too
early to because they're using it as a, as a thing to, to
shield themselves from actually,you know, which allows them to
(50:36):
be like, you can create so much boundaries around yourself that
you're fragile because you can't, no one can talk to you in
any way. That's what's happening.
It's different like, you know, to have a boundary to say, OK,
if you, if you're going to speakto me in a, in a, in a way where
you're, if you're yelling at me or calling me names, I'm not
(50:57):
going to have a talk with you, right?
But if it's like, oh, if you've raised your voice at all, well,
we're not talking. If you said something negative
towards me at all, we're not talking.
Like now you've created, you've made this fragile space around
you where you can't have a real communication with someone
because oh, they better not elevate their tone at all.
You know what I'm saying? Like there's a difference
between yelling at someone and calling them names versus
(51:19):
elevating their tone, right or or whatever.
Like you have to have enough in there room to operate where
you're not where you're actuallylike using the boundary to
protect yourself. But even then, like you don't
need to drop the boundary right away.
Like the boundary needs to be something that is like
something's repeatedly happeningand the boundary is the only way
(51:39):
to solve this issue. Instead, you should be more
resilient, right? Like, you know, what I'm saying
is that I think that's the issueis that people aren't resilient
enough, especially in their relationships, because it gets
messy. Like even when we're trying to
work things out, it shouldn't goto the level of you calling me
names or me yelling at you or anything like that.
That's that should not be part of that, but it still.
(52:01):
Doesn't. No, and it doesn't, but, but it
still gets messy. Like I'm going to say something
that I shouldn't have said that might hurt your feelings.
And you're going to say something that you shouldn't
have said that might hurt my feelings.
And they might be somewhat manipulative or might be like,
because we're trying to navigateand we're trying to be better
at. Obviously everyone should try to
be. But if, if I set a boundary,
(52:21):
like a hard boundary, the minuteyou say something that hurts my
feelings that you shouldn't havesaid, then I've shut down the
communication, right? It's like, but if you're repeat,
like let's say that you just kept on calling me an asshole
while we're trying to talk, OK, then I would need to set it
because there's a reason to set that boundary.
But if you just said something that I didn't like and I start
(52:43):
setting the boundary, now I've shut down the communication
because now I can't, you know what I'm saying?
Like, like there's not enough range that you have to actually
say the truth to me because the truth offends me.
So I've set boundaries around I've I've blocked myself out and
made myself fragile. Yeah, I know what you're saying.
I think though, like there's never really an excuse to call
(53:06):
people names though, because. That's a hard boundary.
You know, it is possible not to do, even if people think that
they can't do it right. So I know you're, I'm just
picking on like the example thatyou used, but I don't.
I think that even saying I'm notgonna talk to you if you call me
an asshole is understandable. Personally, I said that's.
(53:29):
Well, you said if they keep calling you an.
Asshole. Yeah, sorry.
Yeah, one time is enough. Because I do feel like if you
allow like someone to continuously call you an
asshole, they're going to be like, well, you didn't say
anything when I said it the first five times, You know what
I mean? Which it's again, that's not
your responsibility. Like you were giving them grace,
(53:49):
but it is harder for them to understand if you allowed it to
happen certain amount of times. And then now you're drawing the
line, which I get that. It's like, you know, maybe you
didn't really care before, I don't know.
But just having our experience, I'm like, you cannot call people
names. Like I know it's possible.
Like being with you, I know a lot of things are possible that
(54:11):
people think are not possible, like not yelling and not calling
each other names. Those things are possible.
So again, like, I'm just saying that I, I don't think I would
allow somebody to call me an asshole multiple times in a
conversation. Sure.
Yeah. Before saying something.
But no, I agree. With you, if it's something that
you haven't encountered before, right, right.
(54:31):
Like, I mean, our relationship'sa little bit different, but if
it if somebody haven't encountered before, you might
need to say like someone calls you an asshole in, you know,
your partner in a, you know, it's a newer relationship and
you say I really don't like. Appreciate that.
Like, yeah. That's like when you said
calling me an asshole, like, canwe not do that?
Can we not do that? And then they do it again.
(54:51):
Then maybe you have to draw themout of like, all right, I told
you that I didn't like it, that it's not OK with me.
Now I'm going to tell you now that if you say that again that
this will end the conversation and future conversations, right?
Then you have see that's the proper way to set the boundary,
right? Because it's actually it's
actually inhibiting the conversation.
(55:12):
When you're communicating all this, you're not just like, like
you're fully communicating it, right?
You're not just shutting it downor labeling it something quickly
and then dismissing it and. It's not open for
interpretation, right? Because if you have, it's like
if I have my yard, right, and I have do not trespass signs on my
yard, but it's not clear where my yard is.
(55:34):
I don't have a fence or anything.
And you're like, OK, I don't know.
Am I am I am I in the yard? I don't know.
Like it's especially if it's an oddly shaped, you're like, I
need to have a have a sign, havea fence, have some kind of
delineation. Otherwise they don't even know
if they're caught. If it's if it's up to your
interpret. That's why I said like bullying
is a good example. It's a vague thing.
(55:56):
Yeah. You interpret one thing that I
might, I'm not interpreted as bullying, but maybe you
interpreted as bullying. I don't.
You can't have a boundary where where it's your interpretation.
It has to be a distinct thing. If you say this word, if you do
this thing, I will, you know, because otherwise it's
meaningless. Like, and also you're training
(56:16):
people to like to cater to your emotions instead of your like
the and that's the problem is that when you use those
boundaries in that way, then you're forcing people to walk on
egg shells. You're forcing people like
you're actually manipulating them because you're the one it's
like that game replayed. What was the the card game, the
dictator one that the Mao Mao Mao game.
(56:39):
It's like, I don't know, did I bake a rule?
Because you're the one who's telling me whether I broke the
rule or not. Like there's, it's not defined
anywhere, you know? So it's like, OK, you shouldn't
have to have. People don't want to live like
that, right? Yeah, yeah.
Which is why though, again, going back to kind of tie it all
together with the bow that the therapy speak people think is
(56:59):
helping them communicate more clearly, but it's actually not
at all. Like it's not specific.
It doesn't actually solve the problems.
It a lot of times causes more problems because you can't even
have an in depth conversation atthat point and you can't connect
deeply. And so, yeah, it's just.
And it's going to be a triggering word, like because of
(57:20):
how it's used now, right? Like if you tell someone, hey I
think you're being narcissistic,boom all of a sudden they're not
listening to you anymore. They're just going to defend
themselves or whatever, and thenyou're going to think they're
more narcissistic because they're defending themselves.
Instead, instead call out the thing that they're doing right.
Don't use the word narcissistic.Right, right.
(57:40):
Just actually talk. About the things like, it seems
like every time you're making itabout you in this conference
conversation, like for instance,I said this and then now you're
actually dealing with the real right issue.
Which is way more likely to actually get resolved.
Right, because it's even the same thing.
Like if someone, if you really feel like someone's gaslighting
you, if you say, hey, stop gaslighting me, they're going to
(58:01):
get triggered by that word, right?
Because it's going to have a lotof negative implications where
if you say, hey, I feel like what you're saying, it can be
the same definition of because like you're saying these things
and it feels like you're trying to convince me of things that I
don't actually believe. Right.
You know, now you're actually dealing with the real thing and
(58:24):
now you could actually say without triggering them, right?
Because if your intent is to really actually resolve the
issue and not just to to use it as a weapon to name call them,
then you would say what the issue is.
And you don't have to use that specific word, right?
Even abuse, you don't have to use that word.
You can say what you said was not OK or like you know so.
That's true, yeah. All right, now we've, now we've.
(58:49):
Dealt with it all OK. Good.
All right. Well, yeah, I guess we don't
really have anything for for this week since we're.
Recording that way. Back-to-back episodes, but.
Yeah, just follow us on our social media and you can visit
our website betterthanperfectpod.com.
(59:10):
Yeah, if you've got a question, you can e-mail us at
betterthanperfectpodcast@gmail.com.And leave review like share,
subscribe. I guess you could make like AI
don't know. I guess I could.
I could make an e-mail address for our website, but better than
Perfect pod or like info at yeah, Nicole, Nicole and John at
(59:35):
better than perfectpod.com. I don't know.
But yeah. Some Someday, when people
actually e-mail us, then we'll.
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