The Dangers Of Red Pill From One Of It's Creators [Ep 106]

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Women don't care if a man's witha stripper, right?
They care though that if a man, the same man that would talk
down to a stripper is married toa stripper.
Because that's hypocritical. And that's what I would assume
that that Lady was doing by being like, hey, doesn't your
wife have three baby daddies, right?
To prove that someone that you think is below you is lesser is

(00:20):
irredeemable, you married. When men have this mindset, it
gets so extreme to the point where they can't be with any
woman because their red pill friends, we'll tear them apart
all. Right.

(00:47):
Welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast, where every
week we share with you how 2 imperfect people helping each
other grow equals 1 better than perfect relationship.
That's right. All right.
So we got have, we have a prettyexciting topic today, which is I
don't know what did you have a good name for this?
Red Pill cult. OK, there we go.

(01:09):
Let's just call it what it is. Yeah, OK.
Yeah. So I think this will be a good,
good one to talk about. We're, I think we are having
some discussion about. I think there was a video that I
showed. You.
Oh yeah, That's what it was, yeah.
From the guardian about this guythat was in the red pill and
then he realized that, you know,all the things that he was

(01:30):
brainwashing to thinking about women weren't necessarily true.
And the video, I feel like, and you felt like added things in
there just kind of like prove a point.
But the point that he ended up making that we ended up having a
long discussion about, and I wrote down points from that here

(01:50):
is important for sure. Yeah.
And I don't think a lot of people are having this
discussion about it. And essentially, it's that men
have ruined men, not women have ruined men.
Right, Right. Exactly.
Yeah. And that's for many, many
reasons. But it's when men are so
frustrated about the way societyis and the way women are, it's

(02:17):
because these other men have brainwashed them into thinking
that all women are bad. And so these men aren't even
going out and meeting other women.
They're staying at home. They're staying online.
And then they're complaining about being alone and lonely
When they're basing all of theirinformation of women off of

(02:37):
these angry men. Because that's essentially what
it is like. Because there are plenty of men
online, including you, that can give men information on how to
deal with women that are angry at women.
They're not. Exactly.
They're not demonizing women like the red pill guys are.
And because I have rarely seen ared pill video from people that

(03:05):
people already know that are in that community, that they ever
say one nice thing about a woman.
Right, that's true. Exactly.
Not one nice thing the whole video.
And so if I was a man, how wouldI feel like watching a man

(03:25):
destroy my desire to be with a woman by saying that they're all
bad and they're never going to find a good one?
How would I feel good about that?
The only thing is, is that they feel like they have a community
with men, but they're still lacking the thing that they
want, which is women, which these red pill guys.

(03:49):
And I don't know if we'll get flagged for saying the word, but
at this point it doesn't matter.I don't know if I do think some
of them are doing this on purpose just for money, just to
like make rage bait and. A very small amount of money, by
the way, a lot of them it's. Not enough to be ruining

(04:09):
society. They're.
Not they think they're a big capbecause they're making 100 KA
year. But that's why too, like the
issue with like the Andrew Tate thing, and I've even seen some
of Andrew Tate's stuff and even he has sometimes good things to
say about women. Yeah, yeah.
But he's actually more balanced,like in the terms.
I don't know. I mean, I feel like he says
scales go different ways sometimes.

(04:32):
But he, you, he does say good things about women, right, as
opposed to somebody else that never do, which again, I, you
know, I'm not, I, I know him personally, right.
So I've had him, you know, but and where he's at right now and
the stuff that has proven enoughto me that I am not in his camp
at all, like it's he's gone, youknow, he's extreme in a very bad

(04:58):
way, right. So.
But I'm just saying like. But the problem is not even him
is what I'm trying to say. It's that no, the hateful stuff
people cling to and even if a guy red pill guy says a few nice
things about women, it's not enough to overpower at this

(05:18):
point the hateful stuff. And then some people are just
straight hating women and they never say anything nice.
And so men, these men, these redpill men have created this
problem that men are blaming women for when they are creating
it. They are making men hate all

(05:39):
women. And then they're like all the
male loneliness epidemic. Yeah, created.
The male loneliness epidemic. But men created that, not the
men that are upset about it, notthe like victims.
And I don't really want to call them victims because even in the
video that we saw by the guardian, the guy was like, they

(05:59):
prey on the victim mentality andthat's true.
So like, I don't even really want to call them that, but they
are a victim to the red pill content to the red pill
creators. They are a victim to that.
It's yeah. But instead, I just don't want
them to wallow in that because like the guy said, I think
that's what's keeping them in this loop where they're like,
oh, it's not me, it's women. And like, oh, these other men

(06:22):
get it. So I'll just hang out with them
until I find a woman. You're not going to find a woman
because they're going to make you hate women so bad that it's
just you and your Bros on YouTube.
And here's the thing about it, because it's even like the last
episode, right? We didn't play that full.
The video was from, I think probably from fresh and fit on
what Mayern was saying or some clip about him talking about
Akasha's wife, right? And we played a little bit of

(06:44):
the clips that were like her clips from her podcast.
But when we played through the whole thing and we, we watch the
whole thing, you know what I, what I told you about it was
that you see how like a naive guy coming into this, he sees
that, he sees how this woman's acting, right?
He hears the stuff that Mayern'ssaying about it, and he takes

(07:06):
the bait wholeheartedly because it because like, yeah, I mean,
compared to sounds like he's, he's talking sense compared to
this, what this woman's doing. Yeah, he gets it.
Like, you see what I'm saying? But unfortunately, some of the
stuff that that Martin's saying is not exactly accurate.
It's not, it's not the best. And then what's being slipped in

(07:28):
there is that, you know, is thatMyron saying stuff that's very
negative towards women or even just making fun of this girl or
any stuff like that. Stuff that I don't support,
which, which again, which the complicated nature of this whole
thing is like Myron is someone who I know extremely well.
I helped him a lot when he was getting started out, believe it
or not, with with his podcast and gave him a platform on my

(07:51):
podcast. I was in the red pill community
and in the sense that like I wasone of the founders of it, like
I was one of the first guys. Now this was a different red
pill right than what it is now, right, because the whole idea
initially of the red pill was this like just see what I talked
about last last podcast episode was seeing reality clearly right

(08:16):
now, seeing reality clearly is not the same thing as like like
the reality isn't a women are horrible.
Now that's your opinion. Like you can look at the
behaviors and and what's happening.
Could be horrible, right that you dealt with.
Or just like I want? To deal with.
Or just certain things about women's behavior and their
attraction to men and sexual attraction and, and

(08:39):
understanding these things. That was kind of the idea behind
the red pill initially was just let's just understand the truth.
It's not this whole fairy tale thing thing where you know, This
is why nice guys finish last andwhy women prefer to date
assholes. Like like understanding the
psychology of that. That's what it was about.
That does make it seem like justreally quick that then they

(09:01):
should be an asshole. Well, OK, yeah, I'm, I'm giving
a very, a very shallow treatmentto the, to the subject, right?
Like, but, but what I'm saying is that just like understanding
why that that happens, right? Whereas what it's become now as
more of of just hatred towards women, it's become victim

(09:23):
mindset, right? Like, like the idea initially of
the red pill was like stop having the victim mindset and
have some truth of some reality.That's a hard pill to swallow
that's going to set you free so that you're not, you know, you,
you don't, you don't, you're notruled by this being upset and
being a victim. But unfortunately that's what's,

(09:44):
you know, that that stuff has changed and it's become very
much the victim mindset. So that's why I've separated
myself from that is because it doesn't represent accurately.
And even when you go back and look at my my videos content
when I was in groups of like there was a red pill roundtable
that I was, I was part of, right.
When you look at the things thatI've said, like anyone can go

(10:05):
back through all my, I mean, I have thousands of videos,
hundreds, you know, thousands ofhours of footage of me.
You will never hear me disparaging women.
You'll hear me being the only guy that's saying, you know,
this, this is women have it hardto like understand these things
because that's always been been been my objective on it.
But I think it's important to like kind of understand the
context of of that. And you know, because it's, it

(10:31):
is a complicated subject. And and that's the real danger
of this. And This is why the red pill is
so dangerous in the cult is because there are truths mixed
with interpretation and lies. And compared to the mainstream
narrative of that society has pushed this is a good
alternative to men, right? Because they're like, like I

(10:54):
said with that video, if guys watch that video and they see
Akasha's wife, they're going to be like, Oh yeah, what Myron's
saying is right. And now they're all the way over
here and they don't realize that.
No, no, no, it's not. It's a false dichotomy.
It's not like you're either likethis pussy of a guy, like blue
pill simp guy, or you're you're this, that's a false dichotomy.

(11:14):
Like those aren't the two choices that you have.
It's not just red pill or blue pill.
There's other choices along that, that spectrum.
And it's like, you know, you don't want to be this guy over
here, but you don't want to be this guy that's also a victim,
you know, that has a victim mindset.
And instead you want to choose the path of, OK, I have a high

(11:35):
respect for women and myself. And so I act this way.
I treat people this way. I expect this kind of treatment.
I have standards for myself. But that's that's not what's
being taught. Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah. And I have multiple things to
say about that. And another thing that the video

(11:55):
that kind of sparked this whole conversation between me and you
from the Guardian was the guy was talking about how even when
he was not trying to engage in red pill content, it was still
constantly showing up on his feet.
And people are talking about howthey like, deleted their account
to try to like reset their algorithm.
And then the red pill stuff was still showing up.
And I believe that because I watched the video that we used

(12:18):
for the last episode. And you got the whole.
And now Myron's stuff is poppingup, you know what I mean?
And I'm like, and I, I watched one video for that.
Like, I can't imagine how guys that come across some of this
stuff and they watch a few of them now they're probably being
bombarded with all these people's thing and maybe they
watch a video that kind of makessense.
So they're like, let me watch another one.

(12:40):
And then before they know it, they're sucked down this victim
mindset wormhole and now they'refull blown red pill and they
don't even really know how they got there.
They just feel good because someone's like, yeah, it's not
your fault. And but it's like, instead of
men using what they think about women, like you said, to have

(13:04):
internal discipline in themselves, they're painting
women as the bad guys. And I'm not saying that there
aren't bad women, just like there are bad men out there like
there are bad people out. There, or the people who made
bad choices. Like, but yeah, exactly.
But the issue now is that they watch a red pill video or well,

(13:25):
the red pill videos are more about hate now.
But even if they watched what you would used to do in the past
and you're trying to teach it ina way where they do use it as
internal discipline or being like, you know, women want fit
guys. And when they they watch that
instead of being like, all right, well, let me up my
chances by going to the gym moreand like get on a like diet and

(13:49):
like get in better shape and seewhat that gets me there instead.
Like I'm not fit. So that means that I'm hopeless.
Like that's how they're internal.
Or they're like, oh, women have these ridiculous standards.
They're so horrible women, but you see what I'm saying?
Like that, somehow they're making it into them being the
victim. Right, exactly.
They're not like viewing the things in a way to better their

(14:12):
chances. They're viewing it in a way to
keep them out of the game, right, So that they don't have
to play it at all. So then they don't strike out
like. And and, and here's what the
truth of this is. This is the analogy that I like
to use is it's like, OK, you were playing this game before
and you didn't know what the rules were, right?
And so the idea of what is supposed to be of red pill, but

(14:35):
let's just say just of of helpful reality is that like now
I've explained to you what the rules of the game are.
So now what do you do with that?You can say I don't like the
rules of the game. This game is bullshit.
This is whatever. Or you can say, OK, now I can
actually play the game better. You might not like the rules of
the game, and that's fine, but it is the rules of the game.

(14:58):
Like you're not going to change that.
And so you can be angry about it.
You can have the victim mindset about it.
You can blame women, you can blame society, you can blame
other people. And some of the blames might be
valid, like the rules might suckthat I can, I can agree with
that. But it doesn't change the rules.
It doesn't change the game that you're playing.
And so my whole thing when I first kind of discovered these
things myself was I was like, OK, damn, now I know what the

(15:20):
rules are. OK, Now I can optimize my play
to get the result that I want. And I have more power and more
sovereignty over myself. If I give away that power by
being the victim, by blaming women or blaming people are are
complaining about the rules of the game, then I'm putting
myself in a weaker position. You know what I'm saying?
So that's kind of what, what like like anything that's

(15:43):
deviating from explaining thingsin an impersonal way is
destructive of in victim mindsets.
Because it's like, if these guyswant to talk about, OK, you
know, these are some of the things that that we see that is
like in sexual behavior with women, like, and we've talked
about those things. It's fine.
Like, but when you attach a meaning to this and like, OK,

(16:04):
this makes this person bad or This is why, then that's where
you, you've, you've gone off the, the reservation is it's,
it's no good. And that's where it becomes a
cult becomes destructive is is when you when you're doing it to
that level. Yeah, and I think too that men
are focusing on the wrong things, like the term Chad and

(16:26):
things like that are so harmful to men.
For sure, absolutely. Because the reality is that men
don't like is that women don't even always play by their own
rules, but the core rules of like who you have to be as a
man, which every single man on this planet has the ability to

(16:46):
control in themselves is the main thing that matters.
There are women that are marriedto men shorter than them.
There are women that are marriedto men that they make more money
than. There are all these things.
I'm not saying that they are like ideal relationships, but it
disproves all the things that a lot of red pill people say that

(17:08):
you have to or black pill or whatever that you have to look a
certain way and be this amount tall and have ABS.
Do those things help you? Yes, but there's also chads who
have it all and don't have womenin the way that they essentially
want as well either. They might get women temporarily

(17:28):
maybe, but even you have talked about that.
If they don't have the ability to talk to women, they're also
not going to get women. So it's like those core things
matter more and even guys will sometimes admit those things,
but then they use the looks partto kind of justify an excuse
that they shouldn't even try. Well.
And, and just like we're saying with the last podcast episode,

(17:51):
if you haven't watched it, watchthe last episode, especially the
end. But what you say about me is,
is, is more important to me thanme being able to get you.
Did you know what I'm saying is like, like what?
What's more important, it is notthat you're attractive, which

(18:12):
obviously you are guys can see that, but it's what you say
about me, meaning that the character that I have, you
understand what I'm saying is more important.
Like if I'm some stud of a Chad guy, right?
And that's all that I am and youcan't get on the podcast and say
wonderful things about me besides my appearance, right as

(18:33):
my character as a man, then whathave I actually won in this
world? What what am I actually?
You see what I'm saying is like,you can and have those things
and then even if you attract women, but then those women
don't can't get on the podcast and say amazing things about.
Your character control over of those things, Even so.
So the focus has to be on the character of what kind of man do

(18:55):
you become? And that's always been the core
of my content, even in the quote, Red pill days is like,
let's not focus on all this other shit.
Let's focus on how do you use this to become a better man,
like you become a better man, You know what I'm saying?
Not the appearance of a better man not playing this game.
So you can like, how does it make you like your character?

(19:16):
How does it make you stronger togo through these things, to have
a harder life to, you know, to to realize that, yeah, women
don't like weakness. They abort weakness.
Everybody aborts weakness in a man.
So how do you how do you build strength as a man, right.
So those are really the, the keythings is that is, is that's
ultimately and that's what you're saying is that's what
every man can control, right? They can't control how.

(19:37):
Control they look or your genetics, right, You can go to
the gym, right, that you can control, but that's also.
Character, but going to the gym is character.
It's discipline. You get those ABS based on I'm
saying like that's. About the type of person.
When I look at a person and I can look at their body and I can
see if they have discipline or not, right?
Because again, it's not a judgement.

(19:59):
It's like you're a bad person. It's just no.
I can see if you have disciplineor not.
Right. It's like those are the
characteristics and and those are things that you can work on
and every man can achieve. And if you have those
characteristics which also result in outside the parents
changes, right, But also how youcarry yourself and how you
interact with people, then you're optimizing for the right

(20:21):
thing you're going to have. It doesn't guarantee that you're
going to have whatever woman youwant or whatever.
Like it doesn't guarantee that it doesn't.
Yeah. And it doesn't make it that that
women are attracted to taller guys or, you know, like whatever
or jawline, like those things are still true.
Those things are still true, butthose are things that are
outside of your immediate control.

(20:42):
Those things. Are way lesser right than what
you're talking about the character.
Which, but that's The thing is like if you focus on building
your character as a man, then you give yourself the greatest
chance of having the opportunities that you want with
women or whatever in life. And so there's no reason to
focus on anything besides what can I do and build myself?

(21:05):
And even if it's not as much as you would like it to be and you,
like I said, you're never going to be 6 foot whatever, it
doesn't matter. But because you've known that
you've, you've optimized yourself and your chances as
best as possible because that's all you can do.
And anything that's focused energy other than that is a
waste is stopping you from doingthat.
And, and that's where these these red pill guys are robbing

(21:27):
men of that opportunity because they're stealing their
attention. They're stealing their focus on
to things that are outside of them that are can't, they can't
control about women's bad behavior.
Even that video with Akasha's wife, it's like, OK, we're using
that for a demonstrative purpose.
But if you're consuming that concept and going your brain
cycles about, oh, look how horrible women are today.
And look at women can talk like this about their own husband

(21:49):
and, and all this stuff. It's stealing from you the time
that you could be working on reading good books to develop
yourself as a man, watching goodpodcast, going to the gym,
building your business. Instead, you're you're spending
the time feeding into that emotion, that negativity that's
addicting in the victim mindset and you're training your brain

(22:11):
in the wrong way. And so that's what it's being
stolen from you. Whereas if you take all that
time and all that energy and allthat focus, then tell me that a
man that hasn't put that into building himself, his character
as a man, that he would be in a better position.
You see, I'm saying like if you had all that time back and focus
and energy and you put it into yourself, you wouldn't even be
having this conversation. You wouldn't be having the

(22:32):
problems. You wouldn't be alone.
You wouldn't be feeling this way.
Well, it goes. Back to It's a theft.
So what we said in the last episode as well, that it's that
negativity loop, it's you're watching people talk bad about
people. So then you start talking bad
about people and then you feel bad about yourself.
And then you keep consuming thatin order to be around that same

(22:54):
energy. But it's just the crab in the
bucket. And then now you feel so much
shame and guilt for consuming negative things and
participating in negative thingsthat you can't break out of that
cycle easily now because you've gone down the wormhole of

(23:15):
negativity and hating women so bad that it's going to take a
lot for you to not hate women and to change your belief now,
even though that's what you needto do.
You need to face reality like you said, which is not that all
women are bad. Because if the reality that all
women is that all women are bad is real, then also the reality

(23:40):
that all men are bad is real. And that's just not simply not
true, like and so you have to face the reality of that, that
there are bad people in the world on both sides or.
That they make bad decisions. They make.
That's why I like. The Breaking Bad, when we watch
it, is because you see that people do make get into

(24:03):
situations and they make bad decisions.
Right. But you, that doesn't mean
everyone's like that and that doesn't mean that you're going
to be forced to be with someone like that.
Like you have to, like you said,work on the things that you can
control, like having standards and how you carry yourself and
the type of man that you are, the person that you are and have
discipline and do all those things.

(24:24):
So that when you come across a woman that is like the woman in
the video or that isn't, you know, really the person you want
to spend the rest of your life with, you can send them on their
way in a kind but firm way. Like I'm, I can't see us, you
know, continuing any further, but I wish you the best and then
you'll feel good about yourself because you did the right thing,

(24:46):
not feel bad about yourself because you're like, fuck you
then bitch, you know, or whatever.
Like those men don't feel good about themselves.
And when you're that kind of man, right, that women have
never even seen before, right? And I'm not talking about right,
but character wise, not not looks wise, character wise then

(25:07):
a woman that you've turned away because of how she is, she'll
start to change and be like. To be with you.
Exactly, And that's the thing that these guys don't understand
is that when you have that power, I mean, I, I've had, you
know, before we got together, there was women that told me
they're like, you're the best man that I've ever ever met.

(25:27):
Like, you know, and I wasn't looking for something, you know,
of, of you know, but what I'm saying is that it's not, it's
not even a reflection on on me. It's it's that I had developed
that thing. That's how you operate it, even
with temporary people. And so it was like some of these
women were not women that I would have considered to be like
of, of what I was looking for, but they would have changed.

(25:51):
But you know what I'm saying? Like because you can become that
rare of a man that it's such a rare thing in the world, right?
It's rare than. And that's what I tell guys all
the time is it's like, yeah, OK,women that are, you know,
knockout gorgeous, there is a there's so many of them, right?
They're all over Instagram. There's plenty of, you know,
it's like, it's not, that's not a hard thing to be right.

(26:12):
But to be a man that actually isa man of real character, like a
real man. That's the rarest thing in the
world that, that you can have anything, if you can be that
guy, you know, but it but that'sthat.
And that's the the falsehood that these guys are, are are
being, you know, LED away from is thinking that it's all

(26:34):
appearances or it's all of thesethese things are that women are
ruined. And you know, I'd like, I
understand all of the arguments.I'm not naive.
Like I understand what's wrong with society.
I will agree with you about the,you know, the the feminists kind
of culture and society and all the kind of messed up stuff that
that women do or that that people believe today or that is

(26:55):
taught right. But that doesn't change
anything. You know what I'm saying?
It's, it's like you as a man have to realize your ability to
influence not the world, but thepeople in your life, your tribe,
you know, and, and that's, that's The thing is like that's
what they're, they're being robbed of that, of seeing that
ability that they have, that of the leadership that they have,

(27:19):
right? It's like you don't have to, you
know, no one's, you're not coming into a perfect world and
finding like everything is. If, what is the purpose of you?
If women have already, if they're already wonderful and
have it already figured out, like as a man, like you're
supposed to be a leader and a guide.
Otherwise what, what is your purpose like?
So you're, you're coming into a place where where the world
needs your help, right? You know, but you have to be the

(27:42):
man exactly do that. You're like, oh, this world is
shitty. Well, yeah, that's why it needs
your help. It's not like, OK, so so I so
it's not for me because it's like the way that women act as
shitty. It's like, no, that's what they
need your help. Like you find a woman, you, you,
you raise a family like you, youcreate the thing you know from

(28:03):
you as a leader. But you have to be that first.
Yeah. And if you're just as shitty as
the the rest of the world, then it doesn't do any good.
Well, that's why I think too, I want to bring up that I don't
like when men try to act like women are ruined.
Exactly, Yeah. Even like in the last episode,
you didn't say it, but you kind of hinted like, you know, she's

(28:26):
she's too far gone that that woman.
And right now, yes, for marriage, she's not she's not
ready. But if she's ruined and men keep
perpetuating that, then these men are ruined.
Then any men that is in the red pill is ruined forever.
And that just perpetuates more hopelessness.

(28:46):
And I don't think that they're ruined.
I think that they're making a weirdly similar, obviously not
exactly the same mistake as thatwoman is.
And I think when you say that someone's ruined, then you have
and then people believe those things.
And so then people can't make mistakes.

(29:08):
And so then when people know that they've made mistakes, they
feel hopeless. That's part of the problem.
Like, I get what men are trying to say about promiscuous women,
right? However, just like I said in the
last episode, and just like you just said, for the right man,

(29:29):
she would never think of those days ever again.
And so if she's ruined, you can't go around perpetuating
that she's ruined because for the right man, she would be a
totally different woman. And just like these red pill
guys, if they somehow met somebody that was into them and

(29:53):
didn't act the way that men are trying to perpetuate that all
women act, he would be a different man.
It would be harder because he does still need to lead and a
woman can't influence a man thatmuch.
But he would be different than the red pill culty vibe that
he's in now, right? Exactly.

(30:14):
No, you're, you're accurate in in saying that it's I, I would
say that there are some consequences for actions that
are irrevocable. And that's the thing to
understand about it. It's it's like, you know, if
you, if you do something stupid and it causes you to like lose a

(30:36):
limb, that's a permanent change.Does that mean that your life is
over? No, doesn't mean that if you
lost your arm, you don't have anarm anymore and it's not coming
back. It does mean that, right?
Like those are serious consequences, right?
So there are things that a person can do that do have
consequences. It's not like, yeah, even even

(30:57):
some of these red pill guys. Look, hey, if you take this
philosophy too far and you get yourself into like a domestic
abuse type of situation or whatever happens, or you do
something to a woman and you know, and like you're going to
have a criminal record or whatever it is, you've got that
history, you've got that pass that is going to prevent you
from, you know, having the best kind of life that you want to

(31:20):
have. So those are really the things
to think about. But you're accurate in the sense
that what's most important in inmost of the situations, it's
like the level of quote ruined is not.
But her consequences that she's going to lose this marriage
probably that's. Or maybe she won't.
But but it's it's. Not I think her consequences
that that's probably likely and some point, even if it's not now

(31:45):
that he does that and then the other consequences that she did
this publicly and she won't be desired by men.
I don't think that it's like I don't think that anyone is there
to say what she did in the beginning of her life, which we
don't even know for sure. She has said some things that
are, you know, wild, but plenty people have done probably things

(32:06):
more extreme that they just don't talk about for sure.
But I get what? You're saying it's not like
there's not redemption, right? Take it from me, right?
Literally someone who has done some very bad things, right?
But then I'm standing here today, right, as a man that you
respect and look up to and trustwith your life and talk highly

(32:30):
of, right? So I know more than anyone that
redemption exists, but redemption means recognizing
seeing your mistakes of the past, definitely not glorifying
them in in in that that way and learning from them, right?
And so when you go down a dark path, it makes your life more

(32:55):
likely to be ruined. I agree, but she can come out of
it at that place. Yeah, and.
Like fine, you can come out. Of it.
So you can't say she's ruined when we don't know where.
Well, I don't say that she's, I don't say that.
Well, no, I mean, but like a lotof people do in the red pill
community, they'll say those things just like the rest of
that video that we put. He was like, you know, she's a

(33:17):
slut and so is the other girl she was talking to when he when
that girl said that she thinks about her husband and doesn't
watch these things. I mean, they were joking about
the the orgy thing, which is notgood.
I agree with that. But it's like assuming all these
things based on very minimal information and then claiming

(33:38):
that those women are all, you know, done for.
And so then these men watching this, they'll meet a woman and
maybe she like there's some sortof thing that he doesn't like.
She said something and then he thinks she's ruined.
It's that my exactly. I'm not saying though, that you
think that. I'm saying though, that a lot of
red pill content creators say things just like that video that

(34:01):
we had from the last episode. If you watch the whole thing,
there are plenty things that he says in that that proves that
those women are ruined. And I get that like they're not
ideal wife material for joking about those things.
I mean, some of what the one girl said is ideal wife
material. You should want, your wife
should not to think about you when she's doing something like

(34:23):
that. And not saying, oh, I could
never do that. But it's like if you view it
that way, that's why men can't find any good thing to say about
a woman. And the content creators aren't
saying any good thing they can find about a woman because they
already think that all of them are ruined.
Well, and yeah, and again, like there's different degrees,

(34:45):
right? Because like because there's
reality as well, right. So if you're a woman, if you do
an only fans account right then in in their prospects of
marriage to a good man, you are ruined.
Like in the sense that that's never going to happen at this
point, right? Not a good man.
Like I don't want to say never, but your chances of that
happening are extremely slim to none at this point.

(35:08):
Because it's permanent. Because.
It's permanent because like there's no respectable man
that's actually has the character traits that we're
talking about is going to acceptthat.
Now, I'm not saying that it's it's never possible.
I'm not saying that you can't have the redemption from that
and be like, wow, I really messed up.
Like you have to be very transparent about it.
I was like, this was a completely wrong thing that I

(35:30):
did. Like I I completely understand,
like modern traditional relationships.
I want to be a submissive wife to a man that I trust that will
lead me like this was huge errors that I made and it's like
I could see that that redemption, but it's so you
know, at that point, most men are not even going to entertain

(35:50):
long enough for you to get to that.
You see what I'm saying, unless you're completely, you know,
have have really opened your eyes.
You see what I'm saying. And so that's why I'm saying is
like there are things that they can can put you in a situation
where it where, where it's not going to be good for you, but
but it's best to not focus on that, right, Because it's more
important to focus on what is The, Who is the person right now

(36:14):
that you're dealing with? That's also very small margin
and these guys will not be with only fan models.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, yeah, it's.
Not reality being all women likeonly fan moms.
Well, here's a great. Example.
They're all ruined like. Here's a great example actually,
so that whatever podcast, right,you're familiar with that
you've. Seen the clips?

(36:34):
Right. Yeah.
So there's a guy on there that debates people all the time,
Andrew, I think his name is right now.
There was a little clip on therewhere this woman called called
Andrea and she was like, hey, it's like your wife cuz he's
married. He's like she had three
different baby Mamas or like herdaddy, whatever, like she had

(36:54):
she. Had three different because.
She has three kids, right, that are not of his own from his wife
had three different fathers to those kids.
And he's the Super ultra conservative, ultra debate, like
feminism is bad, you know, really like debating sometimes
trash talking these, these womenwho, who do this kind of stuff,

(37:15):
who, who live this life. And like, he's the like the, the
moral superiority kind of red pill guy on the on the show kind
of thing, right? And so this woman calls him out
on it. But his response, Oh, I know,
but look, but his response was, he was like, how dare you bring
my personal life into it? And he said like, he said some
things, but then he's like, do you think I'm a bad man?

(37:39):
Because I took in three childrenthat are not my own and took
care of them and gave them a father, which was powerful
statement that he made. But my point is, is that many
people would have said that his wife.
And that's the point that that woman was trying to say in that
podcast. She was like, your wife is
ruined. And he said no, no, no.

(38:00):
No, I think she was trying to say that like, how can you judge
people and be holier than and then partake in behavior that
you would condone from other people?
That's what I would think. And that is, I think that's fair
to say. But he's saying she was saying
that your wife was one of these hose right that you're saying

(38:22):
you see what I'm saying? And but but my my point is
actually, I'm I'm actually proving your point right, which
is that he didn't see that womanas irredeemable, even though she
had children from three different men.
Like something about her character at the time when she
met him, right? Told him that even though the

(38:43):
the past like would write off this woman that that she had
learned she had redeemed herselfin some way and and was someone
that he would want to marry right.
Right, I've never seen the clip so I don't know.
Unless she blatantly said your wife is a hoe, I wouldn't assume
that's what she meant. I would assume that she meant

(39:05):
what I just said. And I think that that's what
women want the most is just for men to stop being hypocritical.
It's like they judge us so harshly on women that are the
minority that are acting like that one lady in the clip and
then then they can go though andbe with a stripper or whatever.

(39:28):
Women don't care if a man's witha stripper.
They care though that if a man, the same man that would talk
down to a stripper is married toa stripper because that's
hypocritical. And that's what I would assume
that that Lady was doing by being like hey, doesn't your
wife have three baby daddies? Not to talk shit even about the
woman but to prove that someone that you think is below you is

(39:51):
lesser is irredeemable. You married.
And that's The thing is like when men that are in the red
pill cult and have this mindset like.
It gets so extreme to the point where they can't be with any
woman because they're red Pill friends or content creators will

(40:14):
will tear them apart. Or they're like that guy where
they just do it anyway because they obviously love this woman.
And there's something about thiswoman where they still try to
fit in with the red pill stuff, but at some level they don't
really believe it because they're not abiding by the rules
strictly if they're doing those things.

(40:34):
And that's a good thing. But I think that it's bad when
that man won't even admit to what he's doing that he's also
doesn't believe in. Because there's a difference
between guidance and rules. And see, this is the important
distinction. Guidance gives you wisdom to
understand things and like you know this is generally what you

(40:57):
would see like this are things you need to be aware of, whereas
rules are like this is this is exactly.
You can't be with this. Right, exactly.
And so it's like, and that's where it comes down to is it's
like, again, wisdom and guidance.
Like if you're giving advice to men, it's like, yeah, make
choices, wise choices in your 20s, right?

(41:18):
That will set you up for the future.
So that one, you're not overweight and don't and broke
when you're in your 30s or 40s and that won't be attracted to
women. Guidance to women is, hey, don't
go and party in your 20s or whatever.
And like not, you know, ratchet up your, your leg count or
whatever you're, you're, you know, because that's not going

(41:40):
to necessarily be where you should be spending your time.
And is that not going to make you necessarily as attractive to
a possible suitor in the future of a man?
You know what I'm saying? So those are realities.
Do either of those things make someone irredeemable?
Absolutely not, right. Just like a man that wastes his
20s, he can figure some shit outin his 30s.
It's going to be harder to be harder for a woman to like

(42:02):
redeem herself. Like I said, if she has an
Onlyfans account, it's going to be pretty damn hard to explain
that to a respectable guy that you want to marry.
But it's possible if you actually have redeemed yourself
and have used that actually as alesson that has taught you some
things. But there's going to be a still
a larger majority that won't want to have anything to do with
you. So it's like there's real

(42:23):
consequences, but like. These are guide doesn't have
those views. No, When you talk about like
everything in absolutes, right? First of all, anyone that talks
about things in absolutes, you already know, right Flag exactly
right, Because it's not like that.
Like there are guidances and there's things that you should
know, but it's not an absolute. Like you really have to evaluate

(42:46):
a person on a on a case by pace case basis.
And, and, and most important thing I think just for anyone is
like who is the person now, right?
Because the mistakes in our pastactually are what make us.
Into the people we are now right.
And sometimes the mistakes in our past are what make us into
not the people we want to be, right?

(43:07):
But they're also the ones that forge us into the people that we
want to be like that, that Tony Robbins of the two brothers, you
know, that that story. Yeah, Right.
They both blame their alcoholic father.
One for success, but one for failure, Right.
Same father, right. Two brothers.
So it's like. It's the perspective, and that's
why it's so damaging for the redpill.
You wouldn't want me without my mistakes.
I wouldn't want you without yourmistakes because that's where

(43:29):
where we grow. You know, we grew from those
things. But some people it has a
negative effect and they grow inthe negative direction.
But you should have the discernment to figure out which,
right? But it's not like that's why
again, like the red pill philosophy like that's being
preached this way is very destructive because it's making
these black and whites and grouping.

(43:50):
All women are like this or you know, and in fact, they have a
thing that's it's the opposite of it, which is no Walt, no
Walt, which is not all women arelike this, which they say that
that's bullshit, but that's actually the the accurate truth
is that not all women are like every single woman that you see

(44:11):
bad behavior from. I'm trying to remember what I
was going to say while you were talking.
Oh, when I'm glad you brought upthe brother and the alcohol sort
of thing, The alcoholic father. One brother chose to never drink
alcohol and one brother became an alcoholic.
Because that's exactly what I'm talking about.

(44:34):
When men should hear the things that they hear about women and
be the brother that never touches alcohol, but instead the
red pill content creators are the alcoholic dad and majority
of these men are becoming addicted to alcohol.
They're not viewing it as, OK, I'm not going to touch alcohol.

(44:55):
I'm going to be better than that.
They're they're not using something negative and finding
the positive to get what they want, which is a woman.
They're hearing all the negatives, which is sending them
again down that negative spiral.And so that's why that internal
discipline, when you hear something like that, it has to,

(45:17):
you have to transform that into a positive.
Because when we were talking about this, like men will go on
a date or they'll hear a story and they'll be like, oh, I'm,
I'm not going to go out with women ever again.
Or like, there's no good women. And then so they just don't try.
Whereas women will encounter actual dates with men that they

(45:38):
don't like and not keep it them from dating.
They might stop for a little bit.
Right, Right. But they'll be like, OK, well,
that guy acted like this. I don't really like that He's a
little rude to the waiter. Yeah, I don't.
I don't want to be with a man that's like that.
They're not like there's no goodmen.
They're like, why can't I find agood man?
Right, right. And there's a big difference in

(46:00):
that psychology. It's like all all men are trash.
And some women do have that. Some women do viewpoint, right,
But there's a difference betweenall men are trash versus why can
I only find trash men, right? That's a different question give
you a different result, right? Whereas like you're saying with
the red pill, it's like oh all women are trash.
Right. And then they don't even try.
Or all western women are trash or whatever it is.
And then your passport bro and all of that stuff.

(46:22):
But it's like, no, that's not accurate.
You making those blanket statements?
And I get that it's harder for men 'cause they're the pursuers.
But women are also. Yes, they can get a date easier,
but they're not finding men easier.
And men being like, well, they can at least get a date.

(46:44):
That is just settling behavior. Like if you're a man and you're
going to end up like Akash because if you think that just
getting a date will get you a wife, you will end up with the
wrong wife for you every single time.
You have to be the same way as them that like even though it's
harder for you to get a date, you still have standards and you

(47:08):
back up those standards because you have developed yourself as a
man. That is highly valuable because
a lot of men haven't transformedthemselves into actual men that
have discipline, that have standards, that hold themselves
to those things. And so, you know, it's all about

(47:31):
their mindset, and the red pill mindset is just destroying men
in general. Yeah.
No, but no, you're accurate. And I think that's that's that's
the thing about it. It's like, well, and here's the
thing that is why it's appealingis because even like that
Guardian clip, there was a lot of propaganda in there.

(47:54):
And it is like it's smell like as soon as I watched it, I'm
like, this is like, because it'swhen you try to force feed
someone some bullshit, they knowit and men know it.
And men have been being forced fed a lot of bullshit about
feminism and society and, and, and all of this stuff, right?
And So what happens is you got this red pill crater and he's

(48:15):
calling it out and he's like plays the clips of this woman
being disrespectful to her husband, right?
And that's how you draw them in because they're like, Oh yeah,
well, that's like, stop feeding me the bullshit.
I'm I can understand that what I'm being fed is bullshit.
Here's a guy that's not that's not not feeding me the bullshit.
And so they get alert into that bullshit, but there's a it's a

(48:37):
different bullshit. Exactly right.
It's like. It's like, because it's like
everyone wants the, it's not your fault, right?
Right. It's like it's a victim mindset,
right? Instead of taking
responsibility. And So what ends up happening is
that that's learning because it has some half truths in there,
these things even when it has the truths, but the perception

(48:58):
interpretation of the, you know,we can take facts and we can
take interpretations of those facts and those, those are
different, right? Those are subjective.
There's objective reality of truth of facts.
What happened, right? And then there's a subjective
take on that. What does it mean?
And that's, and that's what's what's important.
But, well, a lot. Of these guys got that up really

(49:18):
quick, 'cause I want to talk about the statistics that they
love to bring up. Yeah, yeah.
Again, as a woman, I can hear the same statistic of what is
it? I don't know the actual
statistic. Yeah, whatever the actual
statistic of the divorce rate is, I can hear that.
And I'm like, OK, I'm going to do everything I can to not be in

(49:42):
the higher percentage, which is divorce.
That marriage isn't in divorce. Like and what and and also study
to learn why did those? Right, right.
Exactly. But men hear that and they're
like, I shouldn't. And so again, we when we talked
about this, I said this exact same thing.
I'm fine with men caring that much about statistics, but you

(50:04):
better care about statistics in every single aspect of your
life. You better not get in a car.
You better not get in an airplane, you better not get in
anything. And like the airplane, maybe is
a little. Bit less.
I mean, it's pretty safe. But the car, but the car is
definitely. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
You better not eat any processedfood, right?
Because you're statistically wayhigher to get all sorts of

(50:26):
diseases. You better not do any of those
statistics. Right.
If, because if you're going to cherry pick which one just based
on the percentage higher. So I'm going to do the opposite
of that, like. Well, look here, I mean, here's
the big one is like, you know, I'm sure you've heard the
statistic. You know, 9 out of 10 businesses
fail in the first five years, right?

(50:48):
So that's a 90% failure rate. So what kind of idiot starts a
business? That's some people even use that
argument. They're like, you're dumb if
you're starting a business because 9 out of 10 of them
fail. Well, it's like, OK, so is it
just straight odds, just luck that determines whether a
business fail? I mean, anyone with a logical
brain will realize that it's notjust luck.
It's not like, OK, we just roll the dice.

(51:09):
Our business failed. No, like one out of 10 is doing
something, the other 9 out of 10aren't.
So even with a 90% failure rate,why would anyone become an
entrepreneur? Because they've studied the
failures of the other businessesand they've studied the success
of the successful ones, and theyknow how to become a successful

(51:30):
one, right? So you can tell me that 60% of
marriages end in divorce and that 95% of divorces are
initiated by women. And I'm not going to say, oh,
it's a bad bet. You should never get married,
right? I instead I want to say, well,
why did they fail, right? How did the ones that succeed,
they're like, oh, the ones that succeed didn't even succeed.
They're not even happy marriages.

(51:50):
They just stayed together. OK, fine.
So there's what then maybe 10 or20% left that are happy
marriages that stayed together. So let me study them and see how
did they succeed? Where did the other ones fail,
right. And then if 95% of of divorces
were initiated by women instead of what was.
I mean women are more likely to leave than men.

(52:11):
Even though men are unhappy. We know men that have not been
happy in their relationships that stay anyway.
Yeah, to a ridiculous degree. To a ridiculous degree, right.
We've been through this with with several people that we
know, not just one, like severalpeople to a ridiculous degree.
Were at yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, yeah.

(52:32):
I mean, there is, yeah. But yeah.
But still I could fall into the statistic of that, right.
So, but, but the, the point is, is that like you have to look in
in study the information to figure out, because if you if
95% of women are are are initiating divorce, maybe we
should figure out why. Like, what is it and how can you
be a man that doesn't have that hat?

(52:52):
So maybe it's a matter of filtering of which women you
know that that you're gonna be, or maybe it's like how you
behave or maybe what they're looking for that in in figuring
that stuff out. And that's what is really the
key, you know. So because the statistic thing
is like, and that's also like one of the big dangers of the
red pill stuff like the way thatit's projected today is that you

(53:14):
talk to a 22 year old kid and hegive you.
All of the statistics the same. I'm like, do you have any
original thoughts of your own? Because I already heard all this
stuff because it's you're just, you're just like a little repeat
like like you pull the cord and then it says the same thing.
I already know exactly there's there's like 100,000 of you got
eyes that are exactly the same. Like, do you feel like you're

(53:36):
not brainwashed if you're repeating the exact same thing,
the same talking points over andover again?
It's like sheep if you give me original thought, or at least
even tell me your own personal experience that that validates
that point. Yeah.
But if you're just telling me the statistics that I can hear
from, I've heard 100 times the same exact talking points, right
That you don't have an original thought.

(53:57):
Right, they're sheep. Right, so.
Then do you want to be a sheep, right?
No, right. You want to be a wolf and or a
lion. There, like the same argument
goes for feminists. Like I've heard the whole
propaganda. You know you.
You've heard it. Too, and it's that.
It's sheep on that on either side, but being a free thinker
is where you actually evaluate and you say, OK, there's some
truth to some of these things, OK, but here's like, here's what

(54:21):
my thoughts are on it. No, I was going to say that
earlier in the thing that also like the extreme feminism is
exactly the same problem. Like because it's getting women
to hate men. And that and just because you
can cite that men have done these horrible things before
these certain men, that doesn't make all men bad.

(54:44):
And the second that you try to convince other women to hate men
and those women actually want tobe with a man and want to have a
family and want to settle down, you're like furthering the
divide. Like, each extreme is so bad.
I think the red pill area, though, is just scarier because

(55:09):
of the violence that these men can get to because they're so
angry. These red pill people are making
them feel so angry and such the victim that that can push them
to do extreme things and end up hurting a lot of people.
A lot of innocent people, for sure.
Yeah. Whereas like feminine, I'm not
saying is better, but you don't see women like killing men for

(55:32):
fun, you know what I mean? Like, like, I'm not saying that
a woman has never done that. No, no.
But they're not going to go shoot up a place because they're
like, you know, there's no good men left in the world.
Like it's not great what they'redoing either.
But you got to admit that lonely, angry, self isolated men

(55:56):
that are chronically online and chronically being fed negative
violent things are dangerous to society as a whole.
I just saw a story about a guy who murdered a woman's
ex-husband and his child and a stepchild and left the woman to

(56:19):
like and then he shot himself. Like like those things happen.
Like men will also attack other men.
For sure, yeah. Just because he's angry with a
woman, right? Yeah.
And so, like, not even men are safe.
And that's why I guess I want men to understand is like,
because these men are obviously men are listening to other men,

(56:43):
but unfortunately majority of men are listening to red pill
men, right? And and.
And there needs to be more men like you.
And I know you're out here doingthis and you've been doing this.
And it's so important. And it's so important for other
men like you to get out there and talk about the things that
you're talking about, especiallythe victim mindset.
I know you've been working on that with men for such a long

(57:03):
time. And it's so important because if
a majority of men followed men like you right, then I also
think the feminism issue would be less.
It would dwindle so much becauseit.
Wouldn't have the fuel for that.Well, and that's really all that
women want, right? And and here's the thing about

(57:23):
it is it's like, like what? What are the values that we
represent? Do we believe into the blue
pilled feminist society views ofwhatever that men and women are
the same and all of this we don't, right?
We believe in it. Even right, like, but like, it
was just me, right? Then I realized the benefit of
having the polarity and the duality of you handling the

(57:48):
masculine things in the right way and being a man of integrity
and how important that is and how lacking that is in society
and how you taking that masculine stuff off of me.
And me being able to be super feminine and caring and
nurturing to not only our familybut everyone exactly would

(58:10):
benefit society as a whole if wehad more of that dynamic.
Exactly because because we believe, right, that a woman
should be submissive to a man, the man should be dominant in
the relationship, the man shouldbe the authority.
She should listen to his authority, right?
In a good way, not in a bad way,right?
But we believe that women shouldn't be promiscuous.

(58:30):
That's not a good thing, right? We believe in like these values
systems that, that are the like,because these guys are fighting
against those, those other things, right?
They're like, but we believe that.
But we don't believe that because of that, that we need to
disparage women or that women are bad or that like are we have
to be angry. And like you can still have good

(58:53):
traditional modern values without being this extreme red
pill hating, women hating society, victim blaming.
You see, what I'm saying is likewe have the the values that that
most of these guys would agree with, but the way that we're
approaching it is in a different, constructive way that
doesn't doesn't dehumanize a person, doesn't devalue a

(59:16):
person, right? That that the understanding of
why of these things should exist, that the way that they do
well. Because they've been on both
sides, right? You've been in the Red Pill,
like you said. I've been, you know, on the more
feminist side. Yeah.
And we're choosing this and we've chose this for a long
time. And I can't speak for you, but I

(59:37):
think that you're happier this way.
I'm happier this way. And it makes a lot more.
Well, like I said, I never agreed to the OR you know,
believe those that value system,but like this has always been
the value. But you were surrounded by it.
You were in there with people who did you know exactly.
Yeah, and became and it became even worse than than what it was
when I was there. But, but my point is, is that

(59:59):
like this there, there's not just two choices, right?
Right. Like this is the third choice
you know of of the app, but thisis the more beneficial 1.
For everybody, Yeah, Yeah. Because it's because a lot of
people are like, oh, well, you guys are dumb because like you
don't understand like all of this, this stuff about no, we
yeah, that's the point. It's like we get it and we fight

(01:00:21):
against it, but the way that we fight against it is a different
way, is a constructive, uplifting way of fighting
against of you can be better. Because we talked about the smut
novels and we talked about all the, the stuff that the
destructive stuff that that women do in society.
We've had whole episodes where we've talked about women being
controlling with the Mormon wives thing and double standards

(01:00:43):
and all of this stuff. So we we're aware of those
things, right? But we're also aware of the
things that the men are doing that need to be fixed and
changed and to be a leader. But like, if you want to have
that kind of relationship where you have, you know, a woman
respecting your authority as a man, you have to be a
respectable man. It doesn't make sense.
Like what? What Like if you're like, I want

(01:01:05):
a submissive wife that's going to submit to me and trust me as
an authority and the leader of the house, right.
But then you are talking shit about how women are thoughts and
and hoes over there and like, how is that going to happen?
Because what woman is going to be like, Oh yeah, I trust this
guy with my life. Like like he can make decisions

(01:01:27):
for me and I would trust whatever decision he's going to
make. But then he's saying all this
stuff about, you know what I'm saying?
And and having the victim mindset.
That's not so those things you see, like they very that they
want they they can't because even you know, guys like like
Myron, they're like, oh, women deserve less.
And this woman like a man shouldbe this like he's got some of

(01:01:51):
these these values, right, that we have in terms of like.
Women deserve less. What?
Like that's his book. Like of of everything.
He's a book. Yeah, yeah.
It's called Women deserve less. That's what it's called.
Yeah, but but we're not here to make fun of, you know, but my,
my point, I, I get the ridiculousness, but, but my, my

(01:02:12):
point, my point is, is that someone like him, like has those
same, same talking points about how a man should be an authority
in their relationship, right? However, it comes from two
different perspectives. Come from power with him.
Comes. From servant leadership.

(01:02:33):
Right, which we'll talk about inthe next episode because that's
what we're going to. But but yeah, I mean, that's,
that's, that's The thing is thatlike what we're what we're,
we're not naive. Like we we understand the the
trash that society feeds you, but we also understand that this
is trash. I guess my last question that we

(01:02:54):
don't have to answer. I want people, if they make it
this far, to answer in the comments and maybe based on
their comments, we'll do anotherepisode on this sort of thing
because I'm sure there's a lot more we could hit on that we
didn't. But why aren't men doing what it
takes to be a man anymore? That's what I want to know from

(01:03:14):
men. I want to, I want to understand.
And I mean, you could answer if you want, as long as it's not
super low because we're over. But.
Well, I'll just flip it and say,like, what if you asked the
question of because, right, Because devil's advocate here is
why are women not doing what they need to do?
Because they don't have anyone. It's exactly what you said.
They don't have anyone that theylook up to enough to lead them.

(01:03:38):
And so they can't just be feminine and vulnerable on their
own or around the wrong man. That's very, that's the worst is
being vulnerable around the wrong man.
And so again, I'm, I'm not saying that women can't be more
feminine on their own in certainways.
And I again, I do think that society is kind of going more

(01:03:59):
towards that, if I'm being honest.
I have seen less of like the Super feminist extreme push and
more of like women doing traditional feminine things.
And, you know, a lot more women want to stay home and be, you
know, more traditional and cook and do stuff for their family.
But the reality is, is that women will always be a little

(01:04:24):
hardened and a little tougher without meant to protect them.
And so and like you said, if a man's like, oh, I want a woman
to be submissive and I'll protect my family.
And he's like yelling at people,calling people thoughts that
that that's an easily triggered man.
That's not a safe man. Like he's not protecting her in

(01:04:45):
the right way. And so I'm not saying this to
put it all on men, but if you want to be a leader, it is on
you. Right.
Well, look, hey, this is actually a good you just made me
think of this is like, 'cause I always talk about how women, a
woman is a reflection of the manin her life, right?

(01:05:07):
Women in society are a reflection of men in society.
It's true, right? Yeah.
So it is on men because as a manbeing the leader, right?
Like, like, where did it we got here?
Yeah, from men being weak. Right.
And now women are stepping up and they're like, OK, I'll be
the man. And that's why they're more

(01:05:28):
masculine and they go towards more of the feminist side
because men are over here in theI'm the victim.
Poor me. Women deserve less.
Give me the Princess treatment. Yeah, I hope that we're
communicating doesn't communicate as disparaging men,
because I don't feel like it does.
No, we're not saying that men are bad.
We're not saying right. We're saying like you, you can
be the be the wolf. Exactly like work on the

(01:05:50):
personal things that you have control over, no matter what you
look like, no matter what kind of man you are, no matter how
tall you are, no matter if you have abs or not, you can work on
being the best man and that willget you the most success.
And even if, and honestly, you shouldn't be focused on women
because if you're focused on that and you mean that and you

(01:06:12):
have the discipline and you're doing what it takes and you have
the standards, the rest will work itself out in the time it's
supposed to. And you have to have trust in
that. Because I think when you commit
to doing that, to being the bestversion and to taking negative
and making it positive, finding the good and everything, finding
a way to make it work, even whenthe path looks like you can't
get down the path to what does Tony Robbins say?

(01:06:34):
Like carve your own path. You're going to find a way or
I'm going to make a way. If you have that mindset, you
will get everything that you want as a man.
But if you lay down and you justfollow the herd like the red
pill cult, you're brainwashed. You're not even thinking for
yourself anymore. You will you will be sad and

(01:06:54):
alone and have no woman ever. Yeah.
That's the reality. And like, The thing is, you can
get out at any time. The second you decide that
you're going to change who you are and be better and make a way
no matter what, well. It's just like, like I said, I
mean, the biggest thing is, is whether it's on either side is

(01:07:15):
the fighting against the victim mindset.
That's the one thing that will bury you no matter who you are
in life is because you're when you're spending expelling energy
and time, expending energy and time on things that are outside
of yourself. In your control.
You're just wasting it. And whereas all that time and

(01:07:38):
energy is focused on actually improving yourself, you will get
a result. And that's, and that's the key
piece of it is that's why it's like, it doesn't matter what
other people are doing. It doesn't matter what society
is doing. Like you can be aware of these
things, but it has to be only sothat you know what to improve in
yourself or how to build yourself in such a way you know

(01:07:59):
to, to be able to, you know, to,to thrive in this environment.
Right. If you want a wife, make it
happen. Be the man that any woman would
love to be with. And I'm not talking physically
whatsoever, right? Be the man.
Yeah. All right.
Well, that's that we hit all of the the points that you had.

(01:08:21):
For now, like I said, I'm curious to see what other people
comment and where we could maybetouch on other things, but I
think we did pretty good job talking about it.
So I guess our other thing, it wasn't like a well, I guess it
was a conflict, but it was more of like you were dealing with me

(01:08:43):
being stubborn in a way. We had a talk the other night
and you basically showed me how I was treating you differently
because of the version of you that I anticipated you would be.

(01:09:04):
Yeah. Is that a good way to describe
it? Yeah, like I, I say that it was
like mischaracterizing me, almost like accusing me of like
punched me for the crime before I even committed the crime,
right. Like that was what it was
basically. Like I would assume that you
were going to react a certain way and not even allow you to
have whatever reaction you wouldhave.

(01:09:26):
And I would just assume it wouldbe a bad one and then treat me
like my reaction off of that, like as if it already happened
like you said. Yeah, as I had like a protective
mechanism. Yeah, I didn't even realize I
was doing it. It wasn't in a malicious way,
and I wasn't. And honestly, had we not been in
such a deep discussion? I don't.
I genuinely don't think I even noticed I was doing it because

(01:09:50):
it wasn't malicious, it was a protection mechanism that I
learned a long time ago. It doesn't make it OK.
And I'm glad that we had the conversation in order for me to
be aware that it was happening because it was so subconscious
that it didn't even register really.

(01:10:11):
Unless I like really looked at what you were saying and not be
defensive about it. Because I feel like it is easy
for me to be defensive at times,especially when you're telling
me like, hey, you're treating melike this or you know, like,
like I'm acting a certain way. But I really listen to what you

(01:10:33):
had to say and realize that you were right, that I was doing
that and it wasn't fair to you and I wouldn't want you to treat
me that way. And so it definitely wasn't fair
for me to do that to you as well.
And I was kind of robbing you ofthe opportunity to make your own
decisions and have your own reactions by me just assuming

(01:10:58):
you're going to react in the worst way.
Not like the worst way, but you know, I mean like in a way that
would be your quote worst way. Like, you know, you would get
upset with me or you know, whatever.
Like that's not even, I don't want to say worst way because it
sounds like you would yell at meor something, but you wouldn't
even do that. It would just be like me

(01:11:18):
thinking that you're going to beupset.
So then I would like try to protect myself from you being
upset before you even were upsetbecause you didn't even know
that all this was going on in myhead.
Yeah, it it's like when when someone's like, Oh yeah, I
didn't, I didn't tell you because I knew you were going
to. React this way.
Or, and it's like, give me a like, like it's very unfair to

(01:11:42):
like, you know, it's like to, totreat someone in a negative way
that hasn't actually done the negative thing.
Like to, to like, think it's like thinking poorly of someone
you know, somebody kind of comesdown.
To but I like to. I didn't view it.
No, it wasn't. So that's why like this ended up
being a long conversation because it's like, I don't think
of you poorly. I just would think that I had to

(01:12:05):
prepare myself to protect myself.
Right. Well, it was like.
Whatever it was. Like the example that I gave you
that I think helped you to see it was because you were sick
like on Sunday night and we needto take our daughter to to dance
or to pick her up from dance. And I, and normally we would go
together. And I had told you that no,
like, don't even worry about it.I'll like, you know, you're

(01:12:27):
like, oh, you're like, Are you sure?
Like, no, no, you stay home. It's no problem at all for me,
you know, and I went and drove and, and picked her up like, you
know, as a favor to you to make it so that you could just go,
you know, relax and not have to worry.
And then, you know, and then I, I said to you, I think I was
like, well, you know, when, whenI got in the car and I and I
left you, what were you thinkingabout me or, and you're like, I

(01:12:51):
was thinking and I finished the sentence, but because I already
knew what it what it was going to be because I was trying to
illustrate that point. And like you were thinking some
of the something along the linesof like, he's probably resenting
that I have that he has to go and do this and like, and it was
like. Or it was a test that I should
have went even though I'm sick and even though he told me I

(01:13:13):
didn't need to go. Right.
Yeah, Yeah. And it's like those are kind of
negative. Whereas I'm sitting and driving
in the car and I'm like, oh, shemust think I'm the most
wonderful husband in the world because I did this for her.
And it's like you're thinking bad things about me when I'm
doing something good for you. And and that was like, I was
like, Can you imagine how hurtful that is?

(01:13:33):
Like when a person makes a sacrifice, like does something
specifically for you and then you ascribe like a negative
nature to it. It it's like it's a double hurt
because they had to do the thingright to make the sacrifice.
And then instead of getting credit for it, they're actually
being being discredited for it. Like, like, like, you know,
assuming what what's going on inin the person's head.

(01:13:55):
So. Yeah, it's like a hyper
vigilance thing too as well. Part of it, it's like, is
someone upset and they're just not telling me?
And I take on that responsibility to like try to
figure it out even if they don'tsay it.
But then, like you said, I end up assuming that they are and
then treating them that way or reacting as if they are.

(01:14:18):
And I don't know. But yeah, the main thing is
like, I don't want to treat you that way.
And also too, I need to not feelresponsible for other people's
reactions. Like, you're an adult, you can
tell me if you're upset. It's not my responsibility to
assume. But I grew up that way like you

(01:14:39):
know, not knowing, you know, if someones upset or what's going
to happen. And you got a Yeah.
And that anticipate, right And that was the survival mechanism
back then. So that's why I'm like, I just.
When you're on people who drink a lot too, like because you
don't know what their their behavior is gonna it's erratic,
right? Like some now, they're upset.
Right. So, yeah, you don't know, you

(01:15:00):
could say the wrong thing and set them off so.
Right. And so I think I too didn't,
like, have anyone really back then I could, like, fully trust.
Yeah, like that was predictable,you know, like, I'm not saying I
couldn't trust my parents, but in a way, right.
Emotional way, Yes, an emotionalway.

(01:15:20):
And so I just always was very like, well, it's all on me.
And I got to protect myself and I got to, you know, figure this
out. And I got to be able to pick up
on when people are upset or not and deal with that.
And that was never my responsibility, but I
internalized it. And then so when you brought
this up, I realized I kind of been doing this to probably

(01:15:42):
everybody without even really know, like realizing it, like
really. And so that's why I kept
thanking you for bringing this up, because I want to know these
things and I want to fix these things and I don't want to treat
people this way. And I think it was good like
that, what you had told me before about like how I brought
it up, right? It was like we were able to have

(01:16:04):
that conversation where I wasn'tcombative or aggressive toward
you about it. I felt like you wanted to help
me and work through this with me.
Like I felt like it was US against this problem and that's
what people say to do in relationships.
But man, I don't think people actually do it unless, like you

(01:16:24):
said, unless you're not combative and not aggressive
when you're talking about it. I can't see it happening because
that's the only time really is when we can interact like that,
that I feel like we're working together.
And I did feel supported by you while you were telling me hard
truths, even though I was still resisting them.
You know, I think it was still that like protecting myself

(01:16:46):
thing inside of me that wanted to like keep going.
But that's like the weaker part of me is wanting to defend that.
Like I'm strong enough now to not have to deal with things in
the way that I was. And it's not like you're less
inclined to defend it. Like you've made improvements on
there for sure. If I am approaching it in a

(01:17:07):
vulnerable way, because my way of communicating it to you was
that example, I was like, how much do you think it would hurt
me while I was driving in the car to know what you were
actually thinking about me, right?
It's like, boom, that hits home because it's vulnerable as
opposed to me being upset and being like, I can't believe you
were thinking that about me while I'm driving in the car

(01:17:29):
doing you a favor. And then you're thinking about
that. I mean, do you not understand
how disrespectful that is? Like if I come across that way,
it's the same thing but it's thedifferent.
Worse, it's well, like. It's like it's a more, it's a
combative, aggressive way as opposed to the vulnerable way,
which is not a weak, you know, it's like I've like, do you

(01:17:50):
understand how this would hurt me, right?
Like in this situation, if I knew what you were thinking you.
Know no vulnerable. That gets to you.
Is the strong way, and that's what I had to tell myself.
Is that the way I was trying to protect myself or react to the
things the way before, the way that you brought up to me was
weak. Me being vulnerable and not

(01:18:12):
having to protect myself in thatway is the strong thing to do
and I need to do that that moving forward.
But. But that's, but that's, I think
that's just a good communicationin general.
It's just like like I said, and I appreciate you bringing that
to my attention so that I could use it in in the conversation to
help you to see the thing that. Yeah, no, it was important to

(01:18:33):
me. It really helps me a lot.
And I would not be the person I am without you, that's for sure.
Thank you. Likewise, as I said in the last
episode. But that's why we're better than
perfect because we're, you know,we're here for each other and we
want to help each other and we want to grow individually and
together. Yeah.
All right, well, let's wrap thisone up and if you have a

(01:18:56):
question for us, comment whatever.
You can go to betterthanperfectpod.com to
subscribe to the episodes and leave a comment there, or send
us an e-mail or e-mail us at betterthanperfectpodcast@gmail.com.
Follow us on social media. Yeah, we'll see you next week.
Bye.

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