August 8, 2025 • 59 mins
She says she’s done, movers booked, divorce lawyer on speed-dial. Do you level up and reclaim respect—or let her go and start over? John and Nicole break down the brutal path from blindsided husband to high-value man, debating whether fighting for a dying marriage is strength or desperation.
⏱️ Timestamps (approx.)
0:00 Cold open: “Even though she’s leaving you…”—why terms matter
2:30 Shock phase: blindsided men & early warning signs they missed
4:30 Kids, housework, careers—the hidden resentment load
10:00 Silent checkout: subtle clues she’s already halfway gone
16:30 Respect erosion & masculine drift—how it starts, how to stop it
22:30 Workplace validation and the “new guy” threat
25:30 Bedroom shutdown: sex declines and what it really signals
28:40 Cheating suspicions vs facts—panic or pattern?
33:15 Level-up blueprint: fitness, finance, frame, social proof
40:25 Negotiating new terms: boundaries, leadership, non-negotiables
49:30 Ultimatums, timing, and knowing when to walk away
59:00 Rapid-fire takeaways & next-episode teaser
👇 Links & Resources
• Podcast site – https://betterthanperfectpod.com
• Instagram – https://instagram.com/betterthanperfectpodcast
• Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/0Os5mBb4WMKy7rw5GMHDN7
• Apple – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-than-perfect-a-relationship-podcast/id1719469324
🔔 Subscribe for weekly no-filter debates on love, polarity, and personal growth—every topic splits the vote.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Even though she's leaving you, you still have to have her come
back on your term. She comes back to you because
she sees that she that you're a man that she wants to be with
and she doesn't want to lose you.
You can't beg and grovel at her feet because if it did work,
you'd be setting yourself up forfailure because now she would be
holding all the cards in a relationship and she would be
the dominant one in the relationship.
(00:20):
And can be even more masculine. Exactly.
You got to step up and be the leader.
The only way that she's going toallow you to be the leader is if
she actually comes back to you rather than and you chasing her
down beyond the perfect. We discovered through our flaws,
we complete each other better than perfect.
We stay through every fault we fight.
(00:48):
All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast,
where every week we share with you how 2 imperfect people
helping each other grow equals 1better than perfect
relationship. That's right, I just.
Forgot my lines, did you? I was like, I know this.
I'm a Prof Tell if you almost forgot them or if you're trying
to act like you almost forgot them.
(01:10):
Yeah, well, I did try. To play it off.
It was like all happening very fast because I almost forgot
them and then I was like, oh, let me just act like I almost
forgot them and then so yeah, so.
It was all happening, Yeah. OK, so I was right in all the
things. All the things were happening at
us. That is true.
So. So today, I mean, we might as
well just jump right into it. We're going to talk about how a
(01:35):
man who is on the brink of divorce because his wife wants
to divorce him can save his marriage.
How he can bring her back from the edge.
Win her back. Yeah, win her back.
How you can win back. Win back your wife.
I guess we could say that's good.
Yeah. So.
Looking at me like I yes I have all the answers.
(01:58):
No, I, I mean, I, I think that this is a pretty common problem,
right? I, I've dealt with a lot of guys
that have have dealt with this issue.
We've talked about this a lot onthe podcast about kind of when a
woman gets to that point and she's done.
And then men feel blindsided. But they weren't paying
attention to all the little you know what, What's the word I'm
(02:20):
looking for? Like the hints that is
happening. Yeah.
So I thought maybe we could talkfirst about like, why does it
happen? I think that's good.
Right. And, and maybe even some of the
hints, yeah, you know, that thatthis is happening and then we
can talk about how to fix it. Yeah, I think that's a good
idea. So why does this happen most of
(02:42):
the time? In most of the cases, it's
because, you know, you hear thisa lot from women is that she'll
say, I don't feel like I have a partner, right?
And translating that, what does that mean?
That she's doing all the things and he's not paying attention or
putting in the effort and actively trying to help.
(03:07):
Like trying to figure out how hecould help.
He's not even asking does she need help?
He's just going about his day and doing what he needs to do
and she's picking up all the slack and he doesn't even notice
it because it's being picked up by her.
But then she's getting resentment because he's not even
offering to help. He's not even paying attention
(03:29):
enough in her mind to know that she's struggling.
And granted, she needs to communicate with him, but, you
know, he's kind of just going through life and she's drowning,
waiting for him again to kind oflike, not read her mind, but use
(03:50):
his logic to pick up on what's actually happening and the
environment in the house. And it's not happening.
And it hasn't happened for a really long time.
And so then she is like, well, if I'm doing it all on my own
anyway, I should just be on my own.
And sometimes women feel, honestly, like their spouse is
another child, which is even worse.
(04:12):
That's going to cause even more resentment if she feels like
you're not even handling yourself properly, which again,
women need to kind of let men handle themselves in a way.
But if she feels like she's having to take care of the kids
and you and do all the other stuff, she's going to choose to
(04:37):
get a divorce so that she can get rid of one giant kid.
One set of laundry and let's. Get rid of 11 equation, that
should be able to do it on theirown and then that would make
things easier for her actually in the long run because she's
already doing it all herself anyway.
Yeah, yeah. A lot of times this happens when
(04:59):
you're both working, right? Because she's working and then
taking care of the other stuff. And especially when you have
kids, because then she's workingand she's taking care of the
kid. The guy's acting like, oh, it's
the wife's job to take care of the kid.
OK, yes, maybe if she's not working, Yeah, right.
But even then. And she's making dinner and
(05:20):
she's. Yeah.
But even then, even if she's notworking, you can still not feel
like a partnership because she'strying to share with you or help
get you to help make decisions about things.
And then you're deferring to heron all of them.
Like, oh, whatever you want. Or like, yeah, like it doesn't.
I don't care. Like, whatever however you want
to do it. Like, it's fine with me, right.
That might seem like you're being.
(05:42):
Agreeable. But you're not.
That's not what women are seeking.
They're seeking to feel like it's a partnership, like you're
making decisions to gather like or that you're making the
decision. And she's giving me the input to
be the leader to make the decision because that's what she
wants from me. She wants leadership, she wants
guidance. She doesn't want to just be in
charge of everything because otherwise why does she need you?
(06:03):
You know, and it doesn't feel like she feels alone even though
you're together because there's,there's no communication
happening about what's happening.
She just got to do her job and and that's it.
No appreciation, no thanks for for doing that.
It's just expected of her to do the job, right?
Whereas even just a simple thingof caring about the kids
(06:25):
schedule for their soccer practice or whatever it is, or
caring about what you want to eat for dinner that she's making
right those types. Of things or anything, yeah.
So, yeah, so that happens for a long period of time.
And she doesn't say anything necessarily but, and, and I
(06:47):
think as a man, you don't even notice it because everything's
going smooth. Like the all, all the things are
being taken care of. Laundry's being done.
Kids are taking care of all the things.
She's taking care of all, all the stuff you're doing your work
doing, doing your stuff. Everything's going smooth.
You guys are making good money, whatever it is.
Yeah, I was going to say actually, like, before we move
on too far, like, yeah, what aremen thinking when this is
(07:08):
happening? Like, I know that it's probably
hard for you to think of becauseI don't think you've ever been
this type of man, but what do you think?
Like, I know I agree with you that I think men are genuinely
like, they're just, they're singular focus.
So they're focused on one thing and they don't even notice a lot
of this going on around them. But I feel like there are things
(07:30):
that he should pick up on or like, he should be like, more
aware of, like what is happening.
Like we just talked about what'shappening in the Woman's World.
What's happening to men in this situation?
Men are men are treating her like another man and they're
like, OK, well, she's taking care of this stuff.
I'm taking care of this stuff. And so, you know, she's doing
(07:53):
her job. I'm doing my job.
Everything's good. That's how it's supposed to be.
But does he think it's fair? Because in those instances where
like, she's working and she's doing all that stuff, he thinks
that's fair. Well, let's take two instances
of it, right? And also a man's ego, right?
So one instance is where they'reyou're both working. 1 is where
she's staying home. So in the one that where you're
(08:15):
both working, OK, the man thinkshis job is more important
because, and it's not even like it's because that's how men we
are as men. What I'm doing in life, my
purpose, my mission, my work, it's super important because
that's what that's what I am I'ma man like I do stuff like it's
important. My job is super important.
(08:36):
You know what I mean? Every man thinks his job is
super important, right? So he it's not that he doesn't
necessarily think that the woman, he just takes that more
for granted as a default becausehey, he's doing important stuff
like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you needto take care of the kids and and
make the dare and stuff because I'm doing important stuff.
Even though she might be workingas well, you know what I'm
(08:57):
saying? That's what that's what is is
going on in his mind. And it's not like an intentional
thing. It's just that not even noticing
is like, OK, well, she's got herstuff handled.
She doesn't seem to be complaining.
She seems to be handling all of this stuff right.
So, so I think that's that's what's happening a lot.
But then you have the scenario where the woman's not working.
And so then he really thinks, OK, well, yeah, I'm doing the
(09:18):
important stuff, right? And so can she not handle the
other stuff while I'm handling this stuff?
And that's what what he's thinking.
But he doesn't realize that thatshe wants a partner.
She's that she's willing to do the work right, but she just
wants some input on it. She just wants to feel like what
she's doing actually contributesto the team and that he cares
(09:39):
about the contribution and and is going to give her some
direction towards it. But he's not thinking that way.
He's just thinking, hey, we're both working in tandem.
We're getting our shit done. Like we're we're going to power
couple like we're, you know, getting building our future.
Like, so in fact, what happens, This is why guys get so taken by
surprise is because they're thinking, power couple, we're
(10:00):
building our future, we're saving, we're going to buy this
big house, we're going to get the vacation home.
We're like, like the money in the bank accounts going up.
Everything is good. This is so good, right?
She's taking care of all this stuff.
I'm taking care of all this stuff.
That's what he's thinking in hishead and that's why he gets
blindsided. He's like, why is she suddenly
unhappy now? Like everything is going so
good. How could she be unhappy?
(10:24):
I get it. I'm just telling you what they
think. How do so many men, though, grow
up not really thinking of considering other people?
I guess that's my thing. Like is it the singular focus or
is it that he's like just not considering the other person in
(10:45):
this equation? Like, look, what do you think it
mostly is Like, I get that you think it's like, oh, we're
building together, but like he genuinely never thinks like, oh,
she's probably tired. Like she did a lot of stuff
today. He did.
Men don't think like that, really.
Because he's tired, because he did a lot of stuff, Because men
have usually in general, have a larger capacity to do work.
(11:06):
And so they're doing more work. Or in their mind at least, right
in the I. Was going to say the woman's
going to work and she's picking up the kids and she's making
dinner and she's doing laundry. That man is not doing more work.
But in his mind, he still is because of the job that he's
doing. That's more important than her
job, right? So.
That seems like a competition. I get it, but that's because
(11:27):
they're both in the masculine because he's not allowing her to
be in her feminine, right? And so it's in it.
And it's not even like a lot of these guys in the situation.
They honestly think they're doing right because because
again, you're like, OK, well, how can a guy not learn to care
about other people? Most men, unless they learn
otherwise, they think caring about other people is making
(11:48):
sure that they have food and clothes like is is like taking
care of their physical needs, not their emotional needs.
That's the difference is right, because many men, right,
especially if you go back older generations, it's like being a
man is taking care of people's physical needs, like Hey, money,
(12:09):
food, shelter, right? Like that's what what it is.
That's what they were given. That's why their parents, you
know, like a lot of dads, their parents, you know, if your
grandfathers and stuff, they, they didn't really show love to
their kids because they're like,this is how I show love to my
kids is by taking care of their physical needs.
I don't need to take care of their emotional needs.
(12:30):
That that's not even a concept that, that, that registers many
times. And so a man thinks he's doing
everything right by taking care of a woman and his children's
physical needs, but doesn't think about the emotional needs.
But even if he's only contributing 50% of that, like
he doesn't think about that she's also contributing the
(12:50):
other 50 and and doing other stuff.
You know I'm on the side of a woman should never have to work.
But I know, but I'm just. Saying, but I agree, but but
again, like I said, in a lot of men's minds, because men are so
centered around their work that they are, they have blinders on
and they see their work is more important, no matter what it is,
(13:11):
no matter how much money she's making or how much work she's
doing, because that's how men are.
And that's it's not a selfish, it's not a selfish thing because
the thought about it is that I'mdoing this for my family.
I'm taking care of their physical needs, right.
So what it it it's? But that's why women shouldn't
have to work like the man shouldbe fully taken care of it
(13:33):
because he when a woman is working, he will neglect to
value her contribution. Unfortunately.
And again, this is not even meant to bash men.
This is just blinders that men have because they are designed
to be so focused on their purpose and to make their
mission so important in their life that they see their mission
as more important than other people's missions.
(13:55):
And it's a good thing and it's agood thing to be wired that way.
But it also means that the the benefit of that is that when you
are the sole protector and provider and sole breadwinner,
then that's a very good way to be wired.
But when you do a 5050, it's nota very good way to be wired
because then it appears to be extremely selfish and very like
inconsiderate. And that's how it comes across.
(14:17):
And this is where the whole problem happens.
And not to say that you couldn'thave a situation where the wife
works. I don't think that she should,
but you can still have that work.
But then as a man, you have to understand and still allow her
to be feminine and still understand.
Like, what is the contribution that that she's making?
(14:37):
And and then still being the leader, stepping up.
It's like, yeah, maybe she's doing more of the of the dealing
with the kids, but are you leading that?
Are you helping making decisions?
Are you participating in that? You know what I mean?
But it is also very unfair to tothink that if you are both
working regular jobs that she's going to then pick up the
(14:59):
housework and the kids and all that other stuff like, right,
you know, you got, you can't have it both ways.
Yeah, so you better learn to cook if you're 5050.
Yeah, And change some diapers. Yeah, yeah.
But, but but I would say it's not even in many cases.
In most of these cases, it's noteven about.
Doing the stuff. Yeah, it's not about the
division of the labor or the work.
(15:19):
Like a lot of women will say that it is and they think that
it is, but it's not really aboutthat.
It's about the feeling alone. Appreciation and like you said,
working together as a team cuz yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
It's not about evenly dividing it up, even though I feel like
you should try to do that in some point.
But I feel like if you care enough and you are working as a
(15:41):
team, like you said, you don't even have to focus if it's even
or not because you'll feel like the man is invested in not only
his job, but his family and his marriage.
And so that kind of irons out a lot of the problems rather than
because even if he took half thestuff, but he like didn't really
(16:04):
care. He just came home and did his
chores and then didn't really interact or ever like say
anything or be a part of it. That's not going to fix the
problem. Exactly.
It's the feeling. It's the connection and feeling
like he cares just as much abouthis job that he does about his
family and his wife when he comes home.
(16:24):
Exactly. And and who's ever doing the
most work is the man, because the man should be doing the most
work. So if you're working a job and
she's working a job and she's taking care of the house and the
kids, then she's the man. She's do you need to respect her
like the man, OK, Because she's the man, right.
So as a man, you should be willing to do more.
(16:47):
That's what it means to be a man.
Again, I talk about all the timethat men don't have pride.
You shouldn't even compare because you should be like, I'm
doing way more and that's OK because that's what I should be
doing. Because if you're not doing more
as a man, if you're not working harder, then you're not the man,
Then she's the man. Like you should be allowing her
to have as much free time as possible, to be feminine, to be
(17:10):
relaxed, right? Which will benefit you as a man
in many departments. Yeah, right.
So that's what you should be doing.
And so again, even if your wife is going to work, which again, I
am opposed to that, but sure, I OK, it's whatever I can.
I can understand some people arein that situation.
Then you should still be trying to take as much of the load off
(17:32):
of her as possible and appreciating that she's working
to add some contribution to to the family to the financial
situation, but taking everythingelse off of her as much as
possible because she's doing enough by even putting any
amount of of actual physical labor outside the home into the
contribution of your house, right?
(17:53):
Because she's essentially assisting you to be the man,
right? Because the man supposed to be
the provider. And so she's actually helping
you be the man. So you should probably take all
the other stuff off of her so that you you appreciate that
she's assisting you and be the man because you can't be the man
right now on your own, which is going to make little people out
of little men cry. But that's the truth.
(18:13):
But you can get out of that situation and become the sole
breadwinner, which you should bestriving to do.
Like, I, like I I'm going to stop pulling the punches because
that's the truth. Yeah, I mean, I feel like too,
it would be hard to take those things away from a woman that's
been doing all those things too,because now she might not trust
you to actually do them because you would have done them
earlier. And maybe some of the stuff you
(18:35):
don't even know how to do because you've had your blinders
on and you haven't done it at all.
So that's also going to be a challenge, but I do think it's
what's necessary. And she might resist you at
first because she doesn't trust that you're going to actually do
it or do it properly or care enough to really do the task
(18:55):
correctly. But I agree with you that that's
like you have to invest in your marriage and in your
relationship and your family. If you've just been going with
your blinders on for who knows how long and now your wife is
resenting you like you have, youhave a lot of stuff you have to
step up and do. And you have to do it for long
enough where she feels like she can trust you at this point
(19:17):
because the trust has been broken for a long time because
she's been waiting for you to wake up and be like, OK, honey,
I'm ready to like, be involved in our family now.
I'm ready to do the stuff. And constantly she's been let
down. And again, like, yes, she should
have a conversation with you. But I also think, like,
realistically, I don't think sheshould have to ask for a man to
(19:42):
be involved in his like, family life.
Plus she's already had tried to have the conversations with you
many times. Oh, I'm sure, yeah.
And you didn't recognize what itwas.
You thought she was just complaining.
You thought she was just naggingyou.
Maybe she didn't handle it in the best way.
But right, She's already had theconversation many, many times.
She's already given you the chance.
She's already given you the warning and told you that I
(20:04):
can't take this anymore. Yeah.
But you didn't understand what she was saying, right?
You didn't think it was real? The hints.
Because she was just continuing to be a workhorse and you
continue to take it for granted.And now, now it's too late.
Psych hacks Who's actually the workhorse?
But you know, but this is like, I'm saying this again, it's not
(20:24):
to bash men, it's to help them understand because I've dealt
with this. So like, there's a reason why
I'm able to recite this out of my head.
And I'm not a woman. It's because I've dealt with so
many men that are dealing with the situation.
And when I dissect it and I and I hear what he's telling me the
woman is saying, then I translate that and I know what
it really, really means. Yeah, yeah.
(20:46):
This isn't to make them feel bad, it's to teach them because
obviously they've never been taught and it's OK.
But you also have to take the responsibility to learn this
because your relationship will not succeed if you don't step up
and hold yourself accountable that this is something you never
learned and it's something you have to learn.
(21:06):
Yeah. And then the the second thing,
so that was kind of we're still kind of on the thing like the
reasons why it happened. So the, the second one I would
say, which is kind of related is, is that she doesn't feel
emotional emotional safety. So when she does have emotions,
you're trying to suppress those emotions, you're trying to not
(21:29):
allow her to express those emotions.
You're telling her to suck it upor whatever it is.
Like you're, you're not validating how she feels.
And, and that's happened for a long enough time that she, she
doesn't feel like she can come to you, that she doesn't feel
like she can express how she feels.
She feels wrong for feeling feelings right?
(21:51):
Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, sorry.
It's OK, the itchy nose, but butyeah, but but that's, I mean,
that's the big thing too, is just like not not understanding
how to allow a woman to vent and, you know, taking it all
personally, like defending everything that that that she
(22:13):
has an issue with. Yeah, Yeah.
Especially when she's trying to bring up the conversation about
the thing. Yeah.
And then you're getting logical and rationalizing and saying no,
no, no, I did the dishes yesterday or whatever instead of
hearing the thing behind the thing, which is that she needs
your help. She wants you to be involved.
(22:33):
Yeah, exactly. Well, and to men's defense,
yeah, there are often times too,though, that women do not
provide an emotional safe space for men as well either.
And so then they're like, I'm not going, you know, I'm not
going to allow her to talk abouther emotions if I can't talk
about mine. And that happens vice versa with
(22:55):
both people. But as a man, you should be the
leader. And even if she's messing up,
you should be leading by example.
And I get that that's hard, and it's easy for me to say as a
woman, but it will influence herand it will help her, and it'll
help you as well, too. Yeah, exactly.
(23:18):
And I mean, I really think that's that's pretty much the
two primary reasons. Like I don't think there's
really other things that are usually going on.
It's usually those two things have been happening for a long
time where she just feels like she doesn't have a partner and
she doesn't have, you know, for a woman, the strength of
relationship is important, the most important thing.
(23:39):
Men build their lives around their work and women build their
lives around their man or the relationship.
And so you might not see a problem as a man, but if she
doesn't see leadership and growth in the relationship, then
she sees the problem. So one, she feels like she
doesn't have a partnership and two, she doesn't feel like she
(24:00):
can communicate to you. So then she feels isolated on
her own. So then she's she's already been
living the single life. Right.
For a long enough time that thatthe divorce comes easy for her
because she's like, I'm already living in isolation.
I'm already don't feel like I have a partner, So what?
The only difference is now I have one less person to do their
(24:22):
laundry and that's a benefit, not a detriment.
And that's why men get so dumbfounded, right?
They're like, how could this be so easy for her?
And divorce is a lot of times easier for women than it is for
men because like you've said, they've already checked out.
They've already been feeling like they're on their own.
So actually being on their own is actually more beneficial to
(24:46):
them than being alone in a housewith someone else.
Like everybody talks about how the worst loneliness you can
feel is when you're with someoneelse, not when you're by
yourself. Exactly, Yeah.
So. And at that point, too, I guess
the hint part of it is that she stopped your fighting has gone
down, Yeah, Because she stopped fighting with you, because she
(25:06):
stopped engaging with you, because.
She's checking out like she doesn't even care to to argue,
to try to repair or anything. It doesn't matter anymore.
And then the real danger that happens, and this is where it
becomes extremely hard, if it's gotten to this point, is that
the a woman, especially if she'sworking right, This is why most
(25:28):
affairs happen in the workplace,is that she finds a man that she
might not even had a sexual interest in.
But he starts listening to her. He starts hearing what she's
saying. She starts to feel like she's
being seen again. And now she's being paid
attention to. And now this guy's actually
interested in her and her life and what's going on with her and
(25:50):
is listening to her emotions. And seems like he cares about
her and is involved. And and when she's been starved
for that for so long, what will she give that up for?
Nothing. Not even for her kids.
Like unfortunately, many times, not always the case, but but I'm
just giving the psychology behind this as to why women get
(26:11):
into affairs like this. And they will, they will give up
everything in their life for this affair because it's not
about the man. It's about what he represents.
It's about what he's giving her that she has been starved for
for such a long time that she creates such a strong attachment
to this that she'll give up everything else in her life.
And you're like, this woman's crazy.
Why would she throw away her whole family in her life and all
(26:32):
of these things just for this fling, this relationship with
this guy? Because it's not about the guy
at all. Because as soon as you actually
get the divorce, she's going to break up with this guy.
Whatever. Like, it's not going to.
It might not even last. It's because he's it's the
starvation of these things that he's suddenly giving her and
that she doesn't want to lose. Yeah.
(26:52):
That's the. Thing And that's why it's so
dangerous and that's why it's sohard for a man to win a woman
back if she's gone to that stage.
Yeah, once a woman's checked out, it's really hard to.
Because she's got the thing thatshe's been wanting and then
you're now coming in as the husband who for so many years
didn't give it to her. And now you're like, now that
(27:13):
she's got something that she likes, now you're like, no, no,
no. I want to take that from you
too. And I and you're supposed to
trust me that I'm going to give you that thing.
Right, even though I haven't foryears.
And then when you do and so thenwhat happens to get further into
this is you as a, as a man trying to win her back, start
doing all these things, buying her flowers, started paying a
(27:33):
attention to her. And she acts in a very
surprising way. She acts hateful towards that.
It pisses her off more. And you're like, why is that
pissing her off more? It's because it feels like.
You're trying to she want it anyway.
It feels like you're trying to take away the thing that she's
got. Well, and she doesn't want
gifts. She wants attention.
(27:53):
She wants someone engaged in herand her life who cares.
That's why gifts piss off women.And that's why when we did the
episode in the Maldives when I was like, women don't want your
gifts. They don't like they would give
up everything for a man that gives a shit about them.
Like you said, the guy at the office who actually she feels
(28:15):
like gives a shit about her, she'd risk it all for that.
Like men think women want money and they want gifts.
No, they want to feel like they matter to you.
They want to feel like you care about them and that you want to
be involved in her life and create a life together and work
together. Like you said, as a team.
That's what they want. Yeah, and you can say it's right
(28:38):
or wrong, like obviously having affair is wrong, right, cheating
is wrong. But at the same time, whether
it's right or wrong or not, thisis the reality of what is likely
to happen and psychology behind it.
And so whether it's right, you can be like, oh, she's wrong.
It doesn't matter. It's how she still feels that
way. And that's not, it's not going
to fix it by telling her that she's wrong or that she's a
(28:58):
Sinner or whatever it is. Like yeah, that might be true,
but it doesn't matter. Well, and we're trying to tell
you this so that hopefully it doesn't get to the part where
your wife is having an affair because you can turn it around
and you should turn it around. And you should be looking for
signs that maybe you are checkedout in your family and your
marriage and that your wife feels like she's carrying the
(29:22):
entire, you know, load of what goes on at home and if she goes
to work as well, too. So let's talk about the right
thing to do to actually win her back.
So it's, it's contrary to what you think as a man, it's not
buying her gifts. Like I said, it's just going to
piss her off. It's not suddenly showering her
(29:43):
with attention and telling her how much you love her.
That's also going to piss her off because that's not what she
because it feels like you're only doing that.
Because you lost her, or you're about to.
Exactly like and it also feels like why didn't you do this
before? Right It took this now that I
don't care anymore now you now you do again.
(30:04):
You're trying to RIP away this thing like I'm even if she's not
having an affair, she's not thinking about her freedom and
what her life is going to be like when she doesn't have to do
your laundry. And now you're trying to take
that away from her. Like, you know what I'm saying?
That's what it feels like. And So what you really have to
do as a man is to is to just start showing up and being
consistent. Doing the things.
(30:26):
Like improving yourself, becoming a better man yourself.
Not for her, for you, right? You have to do it for you.
She has to see that you as a manhave realized that you're living
below your standards and that you not to win her back, but
you, because you don't want that.
She gave you a wake up call thatyou're not being the man that
(30:47):
you should be. And that causes you to raise
your standards and start acting and behaving in a way that, that
you respect yourself, that not chasing her down.
And So what does that mean? It might mean now you get up in,
in the morning and you go to thegym and you work out.
And it means that you, you take care of the, the stuff that you
need to do at work. And then you come home and you,
(31:09):
you take care without her askingor anything.
And without being like, oh, lookwhat I did.
You, you feed the kids, you takecare of the, of the kids like
you take care of, of the laundryor the stuff.
You don't ask, you don't negotiate it.
You don't say, look, I'll do this for you.
You just start doing it because you're you're living like a man
that has a higher standard. She starts to see that she
(31:30):
starts to respect you. She starts to see that you're
consistently doing this over time, that it's not just
something you're doing to win her back.
It's not just something that you're doing as a as a game,
whatever it is, or that you're just trying to trick her.
Then she starts to believe it. Right.
It's easier for her to believe it and trust you again if you do
it that way. Because like you said, if you're
like, oh, look what I'm doing, you're like, what can I do for
(31:53):
you? Or all those things like you're
still not really getting it. That's what she's going to
think. If you're asking her what you
can do for her, If you're like trying to show off that you're
doing these things, it's not going to feel genuine.
And she's it's not even going toregister to her because she's
still it. It takes what you said, you just
doing the things and being the man, not looking for a round of
(32:18):
applause from her or whatever, and consistently doing that for
her to realize that you're serious about this.
And that's the only way to pull her out of her single mindset at
this point. Because once a woman is set in
something, like I said before, it's very hard to pull her out.
And the only way is for you to have respect for yourself and
(32:42):
show up in the way that you'd mentioned and prove it by
actions, not by words. Yeah.
Not by trying to show it off, right.
And consistently do it because she's not going to take you back
when she set her mind on not taking you back, right?
Unless she knows that if she takes you back, you're never
going to fall back into that line again.
And I'm not saying that you're not going to make a mistake or
(33:03):
two, right? Like, that's not realistic.
And I doubt she believes that, too.
She's not expecting you to be 100% perfect, but you have to be
so consistent with these things that she feels like if she
commits to this again and gets back into this with you, that
she has full faith that you willnot revert back to the man that
you were before. Yeah, exactly.
(33:24):
Yeah. And it's got to be enough time.
Has to be consistency over time,you know, not talks like having
the talk of like, oh, we had so much years together and what
would you really want to leave our kids?
And not guilting her into it. No, no, that's not gonna work.
Or talking about the old times when you got together and you
(33:45):
had like, that's not gonna work.It's gonna just push her away
more, right? Because it feels like you're
chasing her and forcing her. And it feels manipulative.
Like what about this, you know, like, no, like all you need to
do is step up and do the things that she's been asking for
consistently, like you said, andthat will get you what you want.
Not like using any other type oftactic to get her out of that
(34:06):
mindset. And if you are going to have a
conversation, then the conversation would be something
like not even trying to like convince her otherwise, just to
be like the when you said that you wanted a divorce, it was a
real wake up call for me that I'm not showing up how I need to
as a man. And you know, I don't expect you
to like just take my word for it.
(34:29):
But you know, I, I recognize what I did and I recognize that
I haven't been a very good partner for you, that I have not
been involved in the situations and decisions in the house and
that I've let you take a lot of the load or whatever the The
thing is. And, and I recognize that I
haven't been there for you emotionally and have listened to
you and like say all those things.
(34:50):
Yeah. And then and then say, and it's
made me realize that, right. And don't promise that you're
going to change or do all those things.
Just do it right. Like, because if you get into
the I promise I'm going to do this and all this stuff, she's
going to challenge you. You're going to an argument.
Like it's not going to like justif you're going to apologize,
say the things that you recognize that you do.
(35:10):
And then just show her by example that you're living up to
be the man that you know to makeup for those things.
And don't and, and, and don't try to convince her to come
back. Like it seems really weird to to
say that, but don't like, because she doesn't necessarily
want to leave, you know, she didn't want the marriage to fall
apart, right? But if you start doing those
(35:32):
things, then you, you have to woo her back because that's how
you got her in the 1st place. And, and I think the other thing
is that men don't understand howfar, just like you're saying how
far women are by the time that this has happened because they
think that she's saying, I want to get a divorce, that she's
still making the decision, right?
That she, like, she's so far past that at the point where
(35:54):
she's already more in the relationship, Yeah, she's
already given it up. She's already mentally got a
divorce, now she's just physically getting a divorce for
me. In fact, a lot of times what
women are doing in that phase isthat they've already decided a
year ago they're going to get a divorce.
And now they're gathering their resources, they're up skilling
their, their, their, their skills for work.
(36:15):
They're going to the gym. They're preparing to be single.
And they're not actually going to say they want a divorce until
they feel like they're ready to make it out on their own.
And because they can't trust that they're not going to, you
know what I'm saying? So at that, you have to
understand as a man like what stage she's actually at and
realize that convincing her at this point is not like you have
(36:35):
to woo her. Back to you and win her back.
Yeah, only actions. Yeah.
And even then, like the at that point, you know, to be honest,
the probability is is small. Like if she's still there in the
house, then you have a higher, amuch higher chance because then
she can actually see you stepping up as a man, right.
But even then, like you've let it go to that, that that far
(37:00):
that it's, you know, you it willyou have to ultimately as a man
at this point, except that it's enough for you that this is a
wake up call for you. And it changes your life and you
start stepping up and you learn for the future and become a
better man. But you can't be like, I
absolutely have to get her back because, yeah, you know, because
(37:21):
if you're if you have that mindset, you're going to be
doing it for the wrong reason because she wants to see that
you're doing it because you realize changing.
Exactly. Yeah.
Not that you're doing it for her.
Yeah. Because if you're changing for
you again, it's feels more permanent and like it's actually
going to stick than if you're just trying to get her back.
Because she'll feel like, Oh well, he's just going to go back
(37:41):
to what he was doing once he gets me again and I can't, I'm
not dealing with that. So you're 1000% right that you
have to do it for you and you have to commit to doing it for
the rest of your life. Like you have to be that man.
You can't just be that man, evenif you're doing it for yourself
until you get her back. Because if you fall back into
(38:02):
that hard again, like if you make a few mistakes, I don't
think that she'll hold it against you.
No. But if you fall back into that
cycle again, she's gone instantly.
Like that flip will be switched immediately.
Yeah. The switch will be flipped
immediately, Yeah. Exactly and.
And yeah, like it won't even take as long as it did the first
(38:22):
time, right? Because at that point you've
betrayed her twice. And that's The thing is women
feel betrayed. They feel like they signed up
for marriage and they recorded, right?
And then they get married and now the man doesn't even pay
attention to her, not even romance her.
Pay attention to her, right? And so, yeah, she's going to be
like, why did I even do this? Why did I even get married?
(38:44):
Like, again, it feels more lonely being with somebody that
supposedly loves you than being alone.
Like, And everything's just gone.
He doesn't even pay attention toher anymore.
And like women get so frustratedbecause again, they they're just
like, well, men should know this, this is common sense.
(39:06):
This is not like women knowledge.
And again, some of it is the singular focus.
I do believe that. But also at the same time, I
feel like some of this is basic human knowledge that either men
are not focusing on or again, they didn't like learn how to be
in a relationship properly. And so, you know, The thing is
(39:29):
you have to, you have to really commit to this because if she's
that far gone, she's asking you for a divorce.
Like you said, she's already well made that decision and it
will take extreme measures to get her back, extreme change.
And it's not asking her, it's not begging her.
It's not saying you're going to do all these things.
(39:51):
It's not any of that. It has to be your changed man.
And. You got to think about it this
way too. As a man, it's like in order for
you to even have that relationship back, you need to
be the leader and the authority in their relation.
You need to be the man in the relationship.
So if you grovel and beg her back, how are you now the man?
(40:14):
Like how that's changing the nature of the relationship where
she's going to be the one holding all the cards.
So even though she's leaving you.
You still have to have her come back on your terms, meaning that
she comes back to you because she sees that she that you're a
man that she wants to be with and she doesn't want to lose
you. Which you know, it's like you
(40:34):
can't beg and grovel at her feet.
Not because even not even because it won't work, which it
won't, but because if it did work, you'll be setting yourself
up for failure. Because now she would be holding
all the cards in a relationship and she would be the dominant
one in the relationship. And be even more masculine.
Exactly. You got to step up and be the
leader. The only way that she's going to
allow you to be the leader is ifshe actually comes back to you
(40:57):
rather than you chasing her downright?
Which is a tall order. Yeah, again, the other thing I
think to say about this is that it's not to say that the that
the woman in in this situation has not done a whole whole bunch
of wrong things, right? Maybe she hasn't even been a
very Good Wife at all or whatever it was or like, like
(41:17):
that. That can be the case.
But it still doesn't change how she feels and, and the fact that
you're the man, you're supposed to be the leader.
So if she was doing things wrong, then you should have been
giving her correction. But you have to be doing the
right thing in order to give someone else correction.
So if you were stepping up and doing what you're supposed to be
(41:37):
doing, and then you were helpingher with the issues that she was
facing internally and improving herself as a person, then you
would have gotten into this messeither.
So you can't like, you know, youcan't be like, Oh, well, she's
the one who screwed up this relationship and did all these
things. There may be truth to it, but
you were the leader who was the one who is responsible for the
relationship, and you abdicated that.
(41:58):
I would say that then you shouldhave known that the divorce was
probably coming. Then if you notice that but
you're not noticing anything else, that's it's not great.
Like I would ask a man why he got married if he just gets in
it and he checks out and does whatever he wants to do.
(42:19):
And if you're a man that you feel like you can't pick up on
the hints, then I feel like it'syour responsibility as a man to
check in with your wife and ask her how she's doing and try to
talk to her and see where your relationship is.
I don't think you have to do that.
I think that you can tell the vibe.
(42:40):
But if you can't. Then you should act.
And things seem a little weird or it's been a while.
Ask her be like, hey, how are you doing?
Like you know what, what is on your plate?
Is there anything that I can help you with?
And like, I mean, try to figure it out without her telling you.
But I can guarantee that if you're in like the beginning
(43:01):
stages where the resentment is starting to build up and you
feel like you're disconnecting from each other, that if you
check in and you communicate more, it'll also help you
realize like where you need to step up.
And then maybe you do have to ask her, like, how can I help
you Or like, what can I do, right?
(43:23):
And she tells you, you know, it would be nice if you took the
trash out. OK, you do that.
And then you continue to do thatbecause you know that if it
helped her one time, it would help her all the other times.
Exactly. You know, So if you're not
catching on right on your own, because this is new to you,
again, if you're like completelyoblivious, this is going to be
hard for you. I'm not going to lie.
(43:43):
There's things that you can do. You can pay more attention, but
if you're not picking up on any cues, have the conversation.
Yeah, yeah. And find out exactly.
Right, and then do that and thenonce you know a few things, you
can be like, oh OK, well she wants me to take the trash out.
So what if I also do this for her as well too?
What if I also like, you know, put the trash can out at the the
(44:09):
for the dump truck to come and pick it up or, you know, like
things that kind of tie together, things that you can
just keep on accumulating until you feel like she's kind of
warmed back up to you. Yeah.
Yeah. And do it because you're a
responsible adult, not because you're a good little boy, right?
(44:29):
No. Yeah.
Seeking because you're contributing to your family.
You're contributing to your marriage not because like your
wife wants you to do it, becauseit's also your trash.
Because then if your wife wants to do it and you're doing it,
who's in charge? Who's the leader, Right, Right.
It's like you take the leadership by saying, OK, I hear
what you're saying like I and I and I hear that I haven't been
(44:51):
been doing as much as I should. I'll take care of that.
Right. And then you take care of that.
Yeah, that's it. Then you're the leader.
But if you're doing it just because, oh, she wants me to,
oh, I'm get in trouble if I don't take out the right please,
like, then you're just being a little kid.
Like yeah, I feel like yeah, I feel like that's just, yeah,
lacking accountability. Yeah.
Cuz again, it's like this is also your house.
(45:11):
This is also your trash. You're not doing her a favor by
taking out the trash that you also contribute to.
You know what I mean? Like this still that's it's part
of your home too. So but if you view it as like
she wants me to take out the trash or she wants me to do
that, then you're not really. You're missing the entire point,
really. Exactly, but what you asked also
(45:33):
about how like what how can men why would men get married?
Like if they're because the answer is is because if a man is
got his his work and he's got sex and he's got food, he can
live just fine. He doesn't need love.
He wants love. He doesn't need love.
Women cannot live without love. That's why women read romance
(45:54):
novels and watch romance movies because they need that in their
life. But a man can be just fine just
going to work, getting sex, getting food.
That's it. Like, you know, miserable life.
But that's that's a man can livelike that.
It feels like it. Well, I guess if you're.
But can a woman live like that without romance and her life
without? She can't live like that.
(46:15):
So that's why is that for a man,he can be in that situation and
feel like everything's fine because he.
Yeah, the love would be nice. OK, it faded.
Whatever. Not a big deal.
Like, I've got these other things.
I've got my hobbies, my interests, I've got my my
friends, I've got food. I get sex like I'm good.
(46:36):
Do you see what I'm saying? So that's that's why it gets to
that point is because he doesn'tsee that there is a problem.
And then and then when she triesto tell him there's a problem,
he's like, oh, she's just nagging me.
She's just complaining. Why does she just make trouble,
right? Because to him, everything's
fine. Like why are you disrupting the
fineness? It's all good.
Like what? Why are you going to come and
make waves when it's all good? Like you got money, you got
(46:58):
food, you're good. You see that's that's the
psychology of it. But I'm not saying it's right,
but that's how it is so. Men are simple yet confusing
creatures. But what else was I going to
say? OK.
So maybe even like the hints that I mean we talked a little
bit about about about like the hints that this is happening.
(47:20):
Yeah, I mean, you said like if she's not even arguing with you,
doesn't even want to like engagein a serious conversation about
something, then she's definitelythat kind of the severe level.
But I mean, what would you say are like the hints?
(47:42):
I mean, I would think passive aggressive comments are probably
a good hint that she's got some resentment and is trying to hint
at you to do the things without telling you directly to do it,
because she still wants to give you the chance to do it on your
own even though she's hinting atit.
(48:04):
Yeah, I think you're in dangerous territory if you're
getting a lot of passive aggressive comments or the.
Nagging, the nagging, like the nagging is usually a you problem
as a man, not a like the woman'snagging comes from a resentment
that's built up. Yeah, right.
So now she has to nag. Feels like she has to nag you
about it because I mean, yeah, women shouldn't nag, right?
(48:26):
But why does a woman usually nag?
When she does, it's because she feels like she doesn't trust you
to be responsible, right? Like, it's really hard to nag
someone that's on top of their shit, right?
Like, what are you going to nag them about, right?
Like, you know, like. That she's asked you multiple
times and you're still not doingit.
That's usually why a woman nags,right?
Right. But if you're proactive, you're
(48:47):
on top of all your shit. How is she going to nag you?
Like what is she going to nag you about?
Like that's true where it's usually come from.
So that's a big, a big hint thatthings are coming down the pipe.
Yeah. But then also like the little
things like, yeah, now she's started going to the gym.
Now she's like trying to do get a raise at her job, like, you
(49:08):
know what I mean? Things like that that you can
see as well. It's like, so she's preparing
the the exit, you know? If you feel like you guys aren't
connected, then you have those are red flags.
But yeah, I think, I can't thinkof any.
She's always talking to Susie atwork at 11:00 PM at night.
(49:31):
What that's more of the a fair 1probably.
That's the a fair one, but. I mean, I feel like you can
tell. I feel like you can tell the
energy, like if your wife's not happy to see you, not like being
affectionate towards you, Like I'm not saying that if she
(49:52):
doesn't do it like once or twice, then she's going to
divorce you. But if her typical normal state
around you is not very loving and affectionate, you're
probably in trouble. You're probably neglecting your,
you know, duties in your marriage and in your family
(50:13):
unit. Yeah.
And I think one of the other things I was going to talk about
too is like that, like having the conversation of like whether
you restore it or not, or like even before you restore it or if
you do restore it, of now going through the deep wounds and
having a conversation where you talk to her and say, OK, I just
(50:34):
want to listen. I want to hear how I've hurt you
so that you can get all that out.
And I can understand, you know how you felt because she's got
all this pent up emotional energy and resentment that you
need to get that out. And she needs to see that she
can express that without you being butthurt and offended by
(50:56):
it and being phased by it and just listening and hearing it.
So that then she can start to feel that it's safe to actually
express those things in the future when things come up to
express them. So they don't get pushed down
and bottled up. Yeah, right.
And and turn into resentment. So no, definitely.
(51:16):
Yeah, I think that pretty much covers it, unless you can think
of what else. I mean, I guess the only thing
that I would say to women actually is that you should read
The Empowered Wife and The Surrendered Wife and try, even
if he hasn't stepped up yet, tryto give him the reins.
(51:43):
And hopefully that could also wake him up.
Like there is something that youcan still do as a woman and it's
not nagging. It's not, you know, passive
aggressive comments. Allow him to flounder if he's
going to flounder, like give hima responsibility, give him
something. And if he forgets to do it or he
doesn't do it, he has to suffer those consequences.
(52:05):
And a lot of times that helps men step up and helps them
become more aware. But if it's not working, or if,
you know, I don't know, for somereason that doesn't work, I feel
like it should work, then you need to have a conversation with
him. I know you probably had
multiple, but at least communicate what's going on.
(52:28):
And, you know, it is up to him whether he listens to that or
not because like you said, a lotof women, they've tried to have
this conversation multiple times.
But I also don't want women to think that men can read their
mind or things like that. If you want something, ask for
help right to, you know, like, yeah, ask for help.
(52:52):
And again, I feel like some women won't get the help that
they want. And that's kind of why they're
in this situation. I do feel like these are the
extreme versions and that they probably have asked for help and
they probably have had these conversations.
But just try all that you can doto actually save the marriage.
(53:14):
And then, you know, it is up to him.
And again, like you said, he's either when you get to a point
where you ask him for a divorce,he's either going to step up or
he's not. And I know that women also don't
want to get divorced, but like you said, they don't also want a
man child to have to add on to her responsibilities when she's
(53:34):
doing all the things either. Yeah, exactly so and that's so
good reminder too, for books formen Masculine in Relationship by
GS Youngblood and Way, The Superior Man by David Data.
Read those books, you know if you're at the.
I mean you need to read both of them, but masculine relationship
might be a higher priority if you're at.
(53:55):
The divorce stage. Yeah, but but both of them will
be be useful to you but. And then the surrendered wife or
the empowered wife from Laura Doyle and the Queen's code.
Yeah, by Allison Armstrong. Exactly, but it can be.
It can be fixed, but it's it. Can be turned around.
For sure, you're gotten if you're gotten, if you've gotten
(54:16):
to the point that she's pretty set on divorce, like you said,
this, this did not happen recently.
Yeah, it's been in her mind. So yeah, it's going to take a
lot, but you can do it if you'rereally committed to it.
Yeah, but just yeah, don't chaseher down and don't and even I
mean maybe even like she keep goes forward with it like all
(54:39):
because it takes a long time. It's not a quick process.
And so you've got time on your side as a man.
Like you don't have to be like, Oh, I, I got to fix this right
now. I got to like convince her no,
like you have probably six months a year to show consistent
behavior and show that you're stepping up and become a a new
person, you know, a new man and and you can win her over over
(55:04):
that over that time, you know, because you're kind of starting
over from scratch, like you're trying to whir over, you know,
except that you've got a bad mark on it.
Like, you know, so, but but that's The thing is because it
doesn't work. I've never heard of a guy and
I've talked to a lot of guys. I've never heard of a guy where
he's been in the situation and he's like talked to her and
(55:27):
convinced her to stay or like, like done all these things and
and like showed her like very suddenly how he like expressed
his love for her, right? And that's worked.
It's not gonna be an instant thing.
It takes time. Yeah, cuz it's not.
She does. It's not that like she needs you
to express your love for her andtell her how much she means to.
(55:47):
And like, that doesn't mean anything at this point because,
yeah, it hasn't been shown for such a long time.
Well, guys, yeah, guys have to realize that it took a long time
for it to get this bad. Yeah, So it's gonna take a
decent amount of time for to getgood again.
She's not just going to instantly be like OK, I believe
you and then go back after she'smourned and felt alone for a
(56:09):
very long time. Yeah, yeah.
But the good news for men is that a woman wants you to step
up and be this, the man that she's always wanted you to be or
that you used to be like, to save the day.
Like that's what a woman wants. If she feels like you're not
capable of it. Yeah, genuinely, then it's,
(56:30):
yeah, it's not gonna work. But if you used to be the man
and you used to make her feel a certain way, and you show up as
that man again permanently, yeah, you're gonna be the hero.
And isn't that what every man wants to be?
Exactly, Yeah. So harness that energy.
Be the hero. Be her hero.
Save her from you. Save her from the old version of
(56:50):
you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's true. It's true, yeah.
But yeah, OK. I think, yeah, I think we, we
pretty much covered it. But yeah, hopefully that's,
that's helpful. If if there's someone that needs
this message, you know, share itwith them, help save them.
Because I always hate to, you know, I hear the situation so
(57:10):
many times and I'm like, you need to like you need to get
some help here because you need to fix it.
Also just to give it a shout outto why did I just forget his
name? Just to give a shout out.
Man, I just forgot who. Let me just pull it up real
(57:34):
quick. Why?
Why didn't I forget a thing? Who is my brain is not working
mystery. Shout out.
What I definitely forgot Josh. Josh.
Oh that's what I thought, but I didn't want to say the wrong.
No, Josh, Josh Hudson, he has a,a program called Marriage
(57:55):
mastery. I think is, is what it is.
He has a YouTube channel and everything, but he, I mean, he,
he does. He's in my mastermind group and
he's a friend of ours and he helps men.
You know, he basically gives this very similar advice, I
would say to us, We're we're pretty much on on on par with
with what the the message of howto win your wife back.
(58:16):
But that's what he's specializedin.
He has a program and yeah. So if you feel like you need the
extra help to do that, then yeah.
Then go check out Josh Hudson and Marriage mastery.
I think it's what it what it's called or we.
Just looked at. Him.
Well, I was trying to see what his program's called, but just
(58:37):
to make sure, I want to make sure I give the right.
Oh, yeah, it's marriage mastery.Look, I got it right.
So it's like Josh. Yeah.
Josh Hudson or Josh. Yeah, that's what I said.
(58:57):
Josh Hudson. Yeah.
OK. Marriage mastery.
Good. All right, all right.
Or if there's anything that we didn't cover in this episode
that you want us to talk about on another episode or in the
beginning of another episode, leave us comments and we'll go
over it and check out our podcast website,
betterthanperfectpod.com and share, share the word of Better
(59:24):
than Perfect with all your friends and family.
All right. We'll see you guys next time.
Even though she's leaving you, you still have to have her come
back on your term. She comes back to you because
she sees that she that you're a man that she wants to be with
and she doesn't want to lose you.
You can't beg and grovel at her feet because if it did work,
you'd be setting yourself up forfailure because now she would be
holding all the cards in a relationship and she would be
the dominant one in the relationship.
(00:20):
And can be even more masculine. Exactly.
You got to step up and be the leader.
The only way that she's going toallow you to be the leader is if
she actually comes back to you rather than and you chasing her
down beyond the perfect. We discovered through our flaws,
we complete each other better than perfect.
We stay through every fault we fight.
(00:48):
All right, welcome back to the Better Than Perfect podcast,
where every week we share with you how 2 imperfect people
helping each other grow equals 1better than perfect
relationship. That's right, I just.
Forgot my lines, did you? I was like, I know this.
I'm a Prof Tell if you almost forgot them or if you're trying
to act like you almost forgot them.
(01:10):
Yeah, well, I did try. To play it off.
It was like all happening very fast because I almost forgot
them and then I was like, oh, let me just act like I almost
forgot them and then so yeah, so.
It was all happening, Yeah. OK, so I was right in all the
things. All the things were happening at
us. That is true.
So. So today, I mean, we might as
well just jump right into it. We're going to talk about how a
(01:35):
man who is on the brink of divorce because his wife wants
to divorce him can save his marriage.
How he can bring her back from the edge.
Win her back. Yeah, win her back.
How you can win back. Win back your wife.
I guess we could say that's good.
Yeah. So.
Looking at me like I yes I have all the answers.
(01:58):
No, I, I mean, I, I think that this is a pretty common problem,
right? I, I've dealt with a lot of guys
that have have dealt with this issue.
We've talked about this a lot onthe podcast about kind of when a
woman gets to that point and she's done.
And then men feel blindsided. But they weren't paying
attention to all the little you know what, What's the word I'm
(02:20):
looking for? Like the hints that is
happening. Yeah.
So I thought maybe we could talkfirst about like, why does it
happen? I think that's good.
Right. And, and maybe even some of the
hints, yeah, you know, that thatthis is happening and then we
can talk about how to fix it. Yeah, I think that's a good
idea. So why does this happen most of
(02:42):
the time? In most of the cases, it's
because, you know, you hear thisa lot from women is that she'll
say, I don't feel like I have a partner, right?
And translating that, what does that mean?
That she's doing all the things and he's not paying attention or
putting in the effort and actively trying to help.
(03:07):
Like trying to figure out how hecould help.
He's not even asking does she need help?
He's just going about his day and doing what he needs to do
and she's picking up all the slack and he doesn't even notice
it because it's being picked up by her.
But then she's getting resentment because he's not even
offering to help. He's not even paying attention
(03:29):
enough in her mind to know that she's struggling.
And granted, she needs to communicate with him, but, you
know, he's kind of just going through life and she's drowning,
waiting for him again to kind oflike, not read her mind, but use
(03:50):
his logic to pick up on what's actually happening and the
environment in the house. And it's not happening.
And it hasn't happened for a really long time.
And so then she is like, well, if I'm doing it all on my own
anyway, I should just be on my own.
And sometimes women feel, honestly, like their spouse is
another child, which is even worse.
(04:12):
That's going to cause even more resentment if she feels like
you're not even handling yourself properly, which again,
women need to kind of let men handle themselves in a way.
But if she feels like she's having to take care of the kids
and you and do all the other stuff, she's going to choose to
(04:37):
get a divorce so that she can get rid of one giant kid.
One set of laundry and let's. Get rid of 11 equation, that
should be able to do it on theirown and then that would make
things easier for her actually in the long run because she's
already doing it all herself anyway.
Yeah, yeah. A lot of times this happens when
(04:59):
you're both working, right? Because she's working and then
taking care of the other stuff. And especially when you have
kids, because then she's workingand she's taking care of the
kid. The guy's acting like, oh, it's
the wife's job to take care of the kid.
OK, yes, maybe if she's not working, Yeah, right.
But even then. And she's making dinner and
(05:20):
she's. Yeah.
But even then, even if she's notworking, you can still not feel
like a partnership because she'strying to share with you or help
get you to help make decisions about things.
And then you're deferring to heron all of them.
Like, oh, whatever you want. Or like, yeah, like it doesn't.
I don't care. Like, whatever however you want
to do it. Like, it's fine with me, right.
That might seem like you're being.
(05:42):
Agreeable. But you're not.
That's not what women are seeking.
They're seeking to feel like it's a partnership, like you're
making decisions to gather like or that you're making the
decision. And she's giving me the input to
be the leader to make the decision because that's what she
wants from me. She wants leadership, she wants
guidance. She doesn't want to just be in
charge of everything because otherwise why does she need you?
(06:03):
You know, and it doesn't feel like she feels alone even though
you're together because there's,there's no communication
happening about what's happening.
She just got to do her job and and that's it.
No appreciation, no thanks for for doing that.
It's just expected of her to do the job, right?
Whereas even just a simple thingof caring about the kids
(06:25):
schedule for their soccer practice or whatever it is, or
caring about what you want to eat for dinner that she's making
right those types. Of things or anything, yeah.
So, yeah, so that happens for a long period of time.
And she doesn't say anything necessarily but, and, and I
(06:47):
think as a man, you don't even notice it because everything's
going smooth. Like the all, all the things are
being taken care of. Laundry's being done.
Kids are taking care of all the things.
She's taking care of all, all the stuff you're doing your work
doing, doing your stuff. Everything's going smooth.
You guys are making good money, whatever it is.
Yeah, I was going to say actually, like, before we move
on too far, like, yeah, what aremen thinking when this is
(07:08):
happening? Like, I know that it's probably
hard for you to think of becauseI don't think you've ever been
this type of man, but what do you think?
Like, I know I agree with you that I think men are genuinely
like, they're just, they're singular focus.
So they're focused on one thing and they don't even notice a lot
of this going on around them. But I feel like there are things
(07:30):
that he should pick up on or like, he should be like, more
aware of, like what is happening.
Like we just talked about what'shappening in the Woman's World.
What's happening to men in this situation?
Men are men are treating her like another man and they're
like, OK, well, she's taking care of this stuff.
I'm taking care of this stuff. And so, you know, she's doing
(07:53):
her job. I'm doing my job.
Everything's good. That's how it's supposed to be.
But does he think it's fair? Because in those instances where
like, she's working and she's doing all that stuff, he thinks
that's fair. Well, let's take two instances
of it, right? And also a man's ego, right?
So one instance is where they'reyou're both working. 1 is where
she's staying home. So in the one that where you're
(08:15):
both working, OK, the man thinkshis job is more important
because, and it's not even like it's because that's how men we
are as men. What I'm doing in life, my
purpose, my mission, my work, it's super important because
that's what that's what I am I'ma man like I do stuff like it's
important. My job is super important.
(08:36):
You know what I mean? Every man thinks his job is
super important, right? So he it's not that he doesn't
necessarily think that the woman, he just takes that more
for granted as a default becausehey, he's doing important stuff
like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you needto take care of the kids and and
make the dare and stuff because I'm doing important stuff.
Even though she might be workingas well, you know what I'm
(08:57):
saying? That's what that's what is is
going on in his mind. And it's not like an intentional
thing. It's just that not even noticing
is like, OK, well, she's got herstuff handled.
She doesn't seem to be complaining.
She seems to be handling all of this stuff right.
So, so I think that's that's what's happening a lot.
But then you have the scenario where the woman's not working.
And so then he really thinks, OK, well, yeah, I'm doing the
(09:18):
important stuff, right? And so can she not handle the
other stuff while I'm handling this stuff?
And that's what what he's thinking.
But he doesn't realize that thatshe wants a partner.
She's that she's willing to do the work right, but she just
wants some input on it. She just wants to feel like what
she's doing actually contributesto the team and that he cares
(09:39):
about the contribution and and is going to give her some
direction towards it. But he's not thinking that way.
He's just thinking, hey, we're both working in tandem.
We're getting our shit done. Like we're we're going to power
couple like we're, you know, getting building our future.
Like, so in fact, what happens, This is why guys get so taken by
surprise is because they're thinking, power couple, we're
(10:00):
building our future, we're saving, we're going to buy this
big house, we're going to get the vacation home.
We're like, like the money in the bank accounts going up.
Everything is good. This is so good, right?
She's taking care of all this stuff.
I'm taking care of all this stuff.
That's what he's thinking in hishead and that's why he gets
blindsided. He's like, why is she suddenly
unhappy now? Like everything is going so
good. How could she be unhappy?
(10:24):
I get it. I'm just telling you what they
think. How do so many men, though, grow
up not really thinking of considering other people?
I guess that's my thing. Like is it the singular focus or
is it that he's like just not considering the other person in
(10:45):
this equation? Like, look, what do you think it
mostly is Like, I get that you think it's like, oh, we're
building together, but like he genuinely never thinks like, oh,
she's probably tired. Like she did a lot of stuff
today. He did.
Men don't think like that, really.
Because he's tired, because he did a lot of stuff, Because men
have usually in general, have a larger capacity to do work.
(11:06):
And so they're doing more work. Or in their mind at least, right
in the I. Was going to say the woman's
going to work and she's picking up the kids and she's making
dinner and she's doing laundry. That man is not doing more work.
But in his mind, he still is because of the job that he's
doing. That's more important than her
job, right? So.
That seems like a competition. I get it, but that's because
(11:27):
they're both in the masculine because he's not allowing her to
be in her feminine, right? And so it's in it.
And it's not even like a lot of these guys in the situation.
They honestly think they're doing right because because
again, you're like, OK, well, how can a guy not learn to care
about other people? Most men, unless they learn
otherwise, they think caring about other people is making
(11:48):
sure that they have food and clothes like is is like taking
care of their physical needs, not their emotional needs.
That's the difference is right, because many men, right,
especially if you go back older generations, it's like being a
man is taking care of people's physical needs, like Hey, money,
(12:09):
food, shelter, right? Like that's what what it is.
That's what they were given. That's why their parents, you
know, like a lot of dads, their parents, you know, if your
grandfathers and stuff, they, they didn't really show love to
their kids because they're like,this is how I show love to my
kids is by taking care of their physical needs.
I don't need to take care of their emotional needs.
(12:30):
That that's not even a concept that, that, that registers many
times. And so a man thinks he's doing
everything right by taking care of a woman and his children's
physical needs, but doesn't think about the emotional needs.
But even if he's only contributing 50% of that, like
he doesn't think about that she's also contributing the
(12:50):
other 50 and and doing other stuff.
You know I'm on the side of a woman should never have to work.
But I know, but I'm just. Saying, but I agree, but but
again, like I said, in a lot of men's minds, because men are so
centered around their work that they are, they have blinders on
and they see their work is more important, no matter what it is,
(13:11):
no matter how much money she's making or how much work she's
doing, because that's how men are.
And that's it's not a selfish, it's not a selfish thing because
the thought about it is that I'mdoing this for my family.
I'm taking care of their physical needs, right.
So what it it it's? But that's why women shouldn't
have to work like the man shouldbe fully taken care of it
(13:33):
because he when a woman is working, he will neglect to
value her contribution. Unfortunately.
And again, this is not even meant to bash men.
This is just blinders that men have because they are designed
to be so focused on their purpose and to make their
mission so important in their life that they see their mission
as more important than other people's missions.
(13:55):
And it's a good thing and it's agood thing to be wired that way.
But it also means that the the benefit of that is that when you
are the sole protector and provider and sole breadwinner,
then that's a very good way to be wired.
But when you do a 5050, it's nota very good way to be wired
because then it appears to be extremely selfish and very like
inconsiderate. And that's how it comes across.
(14:17):
And this is where the whole problem happens.
And not to say that you couldn'thave a situation where the wife
works. I don't think that she should,
but you can still have that work.
But then as a man, you have to understand and still allow her
to be feminine and still understand.
Like, what is the contribution that that she's making?
(14:37):
And and then still being the leader, stepping up.
It's like, yeah, maybe she's doing more of the of the dealing
with the kids, but are you leading that?
Are you helping making decisions?
Are you participating in that? You know what I mean?
But it is also very unfair to tothink that if you are both
working regular jobs that she's going to then pick up the
(14:59):
housework and the kids and all that other stuff like, right,
you know, you got, you can't have it both ways.
Yeah, so you better learn to cook if you're 5050.
Yeah, And change some diapers. Yeah, yeah.
But, but but I would say it's not even in many cases.
In most of these cases, it's noteven about.
Doing the stuff. Yeah, it's not about the
division of the labor or the work.
(15:19):
Like a lot of women will say that it is and they think that
it is, but it's not really aboutthat.
It's about the feeling alone. Appreciation and like you said,
working together as a team cuz yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
It's not about evenly dividing it up, even though I feel like
you should try to do that in some point.
But I feel like if you care enough and you are working as a
(15:41):
team, like you said, you don't even have to focus if it's even
or not because you'll feel like the man is invested in not only
his job, but his family and his marriage.
And so that kind of irons out a lot of the problems rather than
because even if he took half thestuff, but he like didn't really
(16:04):
care. He just came home and did his
chores and then didn't really interact or ever like say
anything or be a part of it. That's not going to fix the
problem. Exactly.
It's the feeling. It's the connection and feeling
like he cares just as much abouthis job that he does about his
family and his wife when he comes home.
(16:24):
Exactly. And and who's ever doing the
most work is the man, because the man should be doing the most
work. So if you're working a job and
she's working a job and she's taking care of the house and the
kids, then she's the man. She's do you need to respect her
like the man, OK, Because she's the man, right.
So as a man, you should be willing to do more.
(16:47):
That's what it means to be a man.
Again, I talk about all the timethat men don't have pride.
You shouldn't even compare because you should be like, I'm
doing way more and that's OK because that's what I should be
doing. Because if you're not doing more
as a man, if you're not working harder, then you're not the man,
Then she's the man. Like you should be allowing her
to have as much free time as possible, to be feminine, to be
(17:10):
relaxed, right? Which will benefit you as a man
in many departments. Yeah, right.
So that's what you should be doing.
And so again, even if your wife is going to work, which again, I
am opposed to that, but sure, I OK, it's whatever I can.
I can understand some people arein that situation.
Then you should still be trying to take as much of the load off
(17:32):
of her as possible and appreciating that she's working
to add some contribution to to the family to the financial
situation, but taking everythingelse off of her as much as
possible because she's doing enough by even putting any
amount of of actual physical labor outside the home into the
contribution of your house, right?
(17:53):
Because she's essentially assisting you to be the man,
right? Because the man supposed to be
the provider. And so she's actually helping
you be the man. So you should probably take all
the other stuff off of her so that you you appreciate that
she's assisting you and be the man because you can't be the man
right now on your own, which is going to make little people out
of little men cry. But that's the truth.
(18:13):
But you can get out of that situation and become the sole
breadwinner, which you should bestriving to do.
Like, I, like I I'm going to stop pulling the punches because
that's the truth. Yeah, I mean, I feel like too,
it would be hard to take those things away from a woman that's
been doing all those things too,because now she might not trust
you to actually do them because you would have done them
earlier. And maybe some of the stuff you
(18:35):
don't even know how to do because you've had your blinders
on and you haven't done it at all.
So that's also going to be a challenge, but I do think it's
what's necessary. And she might resist you at
first because she doesn't trust that you're going to actually do
it or do it properly or care enough to really do the task
(18:55):
correctly. But I agree with you that that's
like you have to invest in your marriage and in your
relationship and your family. If you've just been going with
your blinders on for who knows how long and now your wife is
resenting you like you have, youhave a lot of stuff you have to
step up and do. And you have to do it for long
enough where she feels like she can trust you at this point
(19:17):
because the trust has been broken for a long time because
she's been waiting for you to wake up and be like, OK, honey,
I'm ready to like, be involved in our family now.
I'm ready to do the stuff. And constantly she's been let
down. And again, like, yes, she should
have a conversation with you. But I also think, like,
realistically, I don't think sheshould have to ask for a man to
(19:42):
be involved in his like, family life.
Plus she's already had tried to have the conversations with you
many times. Oh, I'm sure, yeah.
And you didn't recognize what itwas.
You thought she was just complaining.
You thought she was just naggingyou.
Maybe she didn't handle it in the best way.
But right, She's already had theconversation many, many times.
She's already given you the chance.
She's already given you the warning and told you that I
(20:04):
can't take this anymore. Yeah.
But you didn't understand what she was saying, right?
You didn't think it was real? The hints.
Because she was just continuing to be a workhorse and you
continue to take it for granted.And now, now it's too late.
Psych hacks Who's actually the workhorse?
But you know, but this is like, I'm saying this again, it's not
(20:24):
to bash men, it's to help them understand because I've dealt
with this. So like, there's a reason why
I'm able to recite this out of my head.
And I'm not a woman. It's because I've dealt with so
many men that are dealing with the situation.
And when I dissect it and I and I hear what he's telling me the
woman is saying, then I translate that and I know what
it really, really means. Yeah, yeah.
(20:46):
This isn't to make them feel bad, it's to teach them because
obviously they've never been taught and it's OK.
But you also have to take the responsibility to learn this
because your relationship will not succeed if you don't step up
and hold yourself accountable that this is something you never
learned and it's something you have to learn.
(21:06):
Yeah. And then the the second thing,
so that was kind of we're still kind of on the thing like the
reasons why it happened. So the, the second one I would
say, which is kind of related is, is that she doesn't feel
emotional emotional safety. So when she does have emotions,
you're trying to suppress those emotions, you're trying to not
(21:29):
allow her to express those emotions.
You're telling her to suck it upor whatever it is.
Like you're, you're not validating how she feels.
And, and that's happened for a long enough time that she, she
doesn't feel like she can come to you, that she doesn't feel
like she can express how she feels.
She feels wrong for feeling feelings right?
(21:51):
Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, sorry.
It's OK, the itchy nose, but butyeah, but but that's, I mean,
that's the big thing too, is just like not not understanding
how to allow a woman to vent and, you know, taking it all
personally, like defending everything that that that she
(22:13):
has an issue with. Yeah, Yeah.
Especially when she's trying to bring up the conversation about
the thing. Yeah.
And then you're getting logical and rationalizing and saying no,
no, no, I did the dishes yesterday or whatever instead of
hearing the thing behind the thing, which is that she needs
your help. She wants you to be involved.
(22:33):
Yeah, exactly. Well, and to men's defense,
yeah, there are often times too,though, that women do not
provide an emotional safe space for men as well either.
And so then they're like, I'm not going, you know, I'm not
going to allow her to talk abouther emotions if I can't talk
about mine. And that happens vice versa with
(22:55):
both people. But as a man, you should be the
leader. And even if she's messing up,
you should be leading by example.
And I get that that's hard, and it's easy for me to say as a
woman, but it will influence herand it will help her, and it'll
help you as well, too. Yeah, exactly.
(23:18):
And I mean, I really think that's that's pretty much the
two primary reasons. Like I don't think there's
really other things that are usually going on.
It's usually those two things have been happening for a long
time where she just feels like she doesn't have a partner and
she doesn't have, you know, for a woman, the strength of
relationship is important, the most important thing.
(23:39):
Men build their lives around their work and women build their
lives around their man or the relationship.
And so you might not see a problem as a man, but if she
doesn't see leadership and growth in the relationship, then
she sees the problem. So one, she feels like she
doesn't have a partnership and two, she doesn't feel like she
(24:00):
can communicate to you. So then she feels isolated on
her own. So then she's she's already been
living the single life. Right.
For a long enough time that thatthe divorce comes easy for her
because she's like, I'm already living in isolation.
I'm already don't feel like I have a partner, So what?
The only difference is now I have one less person to do their
(24:22):
laundry and that's a benefit, not a detriment.
And that's why men get so dumbfounded, right?
They're like, how could this be so easy for her?
And divorce is a lot of times easier for women than it is for
men because like you've said, they've already checked out.
They've already been feeling like they're on their own.
So actually being on their own is actually more beneficial to
(24:46):
them than being alone in a housewith someone else.
Like everybody talks about how the worst loneliness you can
feel is when you're with someoneelse, not when you're by
yourself. Exactly, Yeah.
So. And at that point, too, I guess
the hint part of it is that she stopped your fighting has gone
down, Yeah, Because she stopped fighting with you, because she
(25:06):
stopped engaging with you, because.
She's checking out like she doesn't even care to to argue,
to try to repair or anything. It doesn't matter anymore.
And then the real danger that happens, and this is where it
becomes extremely hard, if it's gotten to this point, is that
the a woman, especially if she'sworking right, This is why most
(25:28):
affairs happen in the workplace,is that she finds a man that she
might not even had a sexual interest in.
But he starts listening to her. He starts hearing what she's
saying. She starts to feel like she's
being seen again. And now she's being paid
attention to. And now this guy's actually
interested in her and her life and what's going on with her and
(25:50):
is listening to her emotions. And seems like he cares about
her and is involved. And and when she's been starved
for that for so long, what will she give that up for?
Nothing. Not even for her kids.
Like unfortunately, many times, not always the case, but but I'm
just giving the psychology behind this as to why women get
(26:11):
into affairs like this. And they will, they will give up
everything in their life for this affair because it's not
about the man. It's about what he represents.
It's about what he's giving her that she has been starved for
for such a long time that she creates such a strong attachment
to this that she'll give up everything else in her life.
And you're like, this woman's crazy.
Why would she throw away her whole family in her life and all
(26:32):
of these things just for this fling, this relationship with
this guy? Because it's not about the guy
at all. Because as soon as you actually
get the divorce, she's going to break up with this guy.
Whatever. Like, it's not going to.
It might not even last. It's because he's it's the
starvation of these things that he's suddenly giving her and
that she doesn't want to lose. Yeah.
(26:52):
That's the. Thing And that's why it's so
dangerous and that's why it's sohard for a man to win a woman
back if she's gone to that stage.
Yeah, once a woman's checked out, it's really hard to.
Because she's got the thing thatshe's been wanting and then
you're now coming in as the husband who for so many years
didn't give it to her. And now you're like, now that
(27:13):
she's got something that she likes, now you're like, no, no,
no. I want to take that from you
too. And I and you're supposed to
trust me that I'm going to give you that thing.
Right, even though I haven't foryears.
And then when you do and so thenwhat happens to get further into
this is you as a, as a man trying to win her back, start
doing all these things, buying her flowers, started paying a
(27:33):
attention to her. And she acts in a very
surprising way. She acts hateful towards that.
It pisses her off more. And you're like, why is that
pissing her off more? It's because it feels like.
You're trying to she want it anyway.
It feels like you're trying to take away the thing that she's
got. Well, and she doesn't want
gifts. She wants attention.
(27:53):
She wants someone engaged in herand her life who cares.
That's why gifts piss off women.And that's why when we did the
episode in the Maldives when I was like, women don't want your
gifts. They don't like they would give
up everything for a man that gives a shit about them.
Like you said, the guy at the office who actually she feels
(28:15):
like gives a shit about her, she'd risk it all for that.
Like men think women want money and they want gifts.
No, they want to feel like they matter to you.
They want to feel like you care about them and that you want to
be involved in her life and create a life together and work
together. Like you said, as a team.
That's what they want. Yeah, and you can say it's right
(28:38):
or wrong, like obviously having affair is wrong, right, cheating
is wrong. But at the same time, whether
it's right or wrong or not, thisis the reality of what is likely
to happen and psychology behind it.
And so whether it's right, you can be like, oh, she's wrong.
It doesn't matter. It's how she still feels that
way. And that's not, it's not going
to fix it by telling her that she's wrong or that she's a
(28:58):
Sinner or whatever it is. Like yeah, that might be true,
but it doesn't matter. Well, and we're trying to tell
you this so that hopefully it doesn't get to the part where
your wife is having an affair because you can turn it around
and you should turn it around. And you should be looking for
signs that maybe you are checkedout in your family and your
marriage and that your wife feels like she's carrying the
(29:22):
entire, you know, load of what goes on at home and if she goes
to work as well, too. So let's talk about the right
thing to do to actually win her back.
So it's, it's contrary to what you think as a man, it's not
buying her gifts. Like I said, it's just going to
piss her off. It's not suddenly showering her
(29:43):
with attention and telling her how much you love her.
That's also going to piss her off because that's not what she
because it feels like you're only doing that.
Because you lost her, or you're about to.
Exactly like and it also feels like why didn't you do this
before? Right It took this now that I
don't care anymore now you now you do again.
(30:04):
You're trying to RIP away this thing like I'm even if she's not
having an affair, she's not thinking about her freedom and
what her life is going to be like when she doesn't have to do
your laundry. And now you're trying to take
that away from her. Like, you know what I'm saying?
That's what it feels like. And So what you really have to
do as a man is to is to just start showing up and being
consistent. Doing the things.
(30:26):
Like improving yourself, becoming a better man yourself.
Not for her, for you, right? You have to do it for you.
She has to see that you as a manhave realized that you're living
below your standards and that you not to win her back, but
you, because you don't want that.
She gave you a wake up call thatyou're not being the man that
(30:47):
you should be. And that causes you to raise
your standards and start acting and behaving in a way that, that
you respect yourself, that not chasing her down.
And So what does that mean? It might mean now you get up in,
in the morning and you go to thegym and you work out.
And it means that you, you take care of the, the stuff that you
need to do at work. And then you come home and you,
(31:09):
you take care without her askingor anything.
And without being like, oh, lookwhat I did.
You, you feed the kids, you takecare of the, of the kids like
you take care of, of the laundryor the stuff.
You don't ask, you don't negotiate it.
You don't say, look, I'll do this for you.
You just start doing it because you're you're living like a man
that has a higher standard. She starts to see that she
(31:30):
starts to respect you. She starts to see that you're
consistently doing this over time, that it's not just
something you're doing to win her back.
It's not just something that you're doing as a as a game,
whatever it is, or that you're just trying to trick her.
Then she starts to believe it. Right.
It's easier for her to believe it and trust you again if you do
it that way. Because like you said, if you're
like, oh, look what I'm doing, you're like, what can I do for
(31:53):
you? Or all those things like you're
still not really getting it. That's what she's going to
think. If you're asking her what you
can do for her, If you're like trying to show off that you're
doing these things, it's not going to feel genuine.
And she's it's not even going toregister to her because she's
still it. It takes what you said, you just
doing the things and being the man, not looking for a round of
(32:18):
applause from her or whatever, and consistently doing that for
her to realize that you're serious about this.
And that's the only way to pull her out of her single mindset at
this point. Because once a woman is set in
something, like I said before, it's very hard to pull her out.
And the only way is for you to have respect for yourself and
(32:42):
show up in the way that you'd mentioned and prove it by
actions, not by words. Yeah.
Not by trying to show it off, right.
And consistently do it because she's not going to take you back
when she set her mind on not taking you back, right?
Unless she knows that if she takes you back, you're never
going to fall back into that line again.
And I'm not saying that you're not going to make a mistake or
(33:03):
two, right? Like, that's not realistic.
And I doubt she believes that, too.
She's not expecting you to be 100% perfect, but you have to be
so consistent with these things that she feels like if she
commits to this again and gets back into this with you, that
she has full faith that you willnot revert back to the man that
you were before. Yeah, exactly.
(33:24):
Yeah. And it's got to be enough time.
Has to be consistency over time,you know, not talks like having
the talk of like, oh, we had so much years together and what
would you really want to leave our kids?
And not guilting her into it. No, no, that's not gonna work.
Or talking about the old times when you got together and you
(33:45):
had like, that's not gonna work.It's gonna just push her away
more, right? Because it feels like you're
chasing her and forcing her. And it feels manipulative.
Like what about this, you know, like, no, like all you need to
do is step up and do the things that she's been asking for
consistently, like you said, andthat will get you what you want.
Not like using any other type oftactic to get her out of that
(34:06):
mindset. And if you are going to have a
conversation, then the conversation would be something
like not even trying to like convince her otherwise, just to
be like the when you said that you wanted a divorce, it was a
real wake up call for me that I'm not showing up how I need to
as a man. And you know, I don't expect you
to like just take my word for it.
(34:29):
But you know, I, I recognize what I did and I recognize that
I haven't been a very good partner for you, that I have not
been involved in the situations and decisions in the house and
that I've let you take a lot of the load or whatever the The
thing is. And, and I recognize that I
haven't been there for you emotionally and have listened to
you and like say all those things.
(34:50):
Yeah. And then and then say, and it's
made me realize that, right. And don't promise that you're
going to change or do all those things.
Just do it right. Like, because if you get into
the I promise I'm going to do this and all this stuff, she's
going to challenge you. You're going to an argument.
Like it's not going to like justif you're going to apologize,
say the things that you recognize that you do.
(35:10):
And then just show her by example that you're living up to
be the man that you know to makeup for those things.
And don't and, and, and don't try to convince her to come
back. Like it seems really weird to to
say that, but don't like, because she doesn't necessarily
want to leave, you know, she didn't want the marriage to fall
apart, right? But if you start doing those
(35:32):
things, then you, you have to woo her back because that's how
you got her in the 1st place. And, and I think the other thing
is that men don't understand howfar, just like you're saying how
far women are by the time that this has happened because they
think that she's saying, I want to get a divorce, that she's
still making the decision, right?
That she, like, she's so far past that at the point where
(35:54):
she's already more in the relationship, Yeah, she's
already given it up. She's already mentally got a
divorce, now she's just physically getting a divorce for
me. In fact, a lot of times what
women are doing in that phase isthat they've already decided a
year ago they're going to get a divorce.
And now they're gathering their resources, they're up skilling
their, their, their, their skills for work.
(36:15):
They're going to the gym. They're preparing to be single.
And they're not actually going to say they want a divorce until
they feel like they're ready to make it out on their own.
And because they can't trust that they're not going to, you
know what I'm saying? So at that, you have to
understand as a man like what stage she's actually at and
realize that convincing her at this point is not like you have
(36:35):
to woo her. Back to you and win her back.
Yeah, only actions. Yeah.
And even then, like the at that point, you know, to be honest,
the probability is is small. Like if she's still there in the
house, then you have a higher, amuch higher chance because then
she can actually see you stepping up as a man, right.
But even then, like you've let it go to that, that that far
(37:00):
that it's, you know, you it willyou have to ultimately as a man
at this point, except that it's enough for you that this is a
wake up call for you. And it changes your life and you
start stepping up and you learn for the future and become a
better man. But you can't be like, I
absolutely have to get her back because, yeah, you know, because
(37:21):
if you're if you have that mindset, you're going to be
doing it for the wrong reason because she wants to see that
you're doing it because you realize changing.
Exactly. Yeah.
Not that you're doing it for her.
Yeah. Because if you're changing for
you again, it's feels more permanent and like it's actually
going to stick than if you're just trying to get her back.
Because she'll feel like, Oh well, he's just going to go back
(37:41):
to what he was doing once he gets me again and I can't, I'm
not dealing with that. So you're 1000% right that you
have to do it for you and you have to commit to doing it for
the rest of your life. Like you have to be that man.
You can't just be that man, evenif you're doing it for yourself
until you get her back. Because if you fall back into
(38:02):
that hard again, like if you make a few mistakes, I don't
think that she'll hold it against you.
No. But if you fall back into that
cycle again, she's gone instantly.
Like that flip will be switched immediately.
Yeah. The switch will be flipped
immediately, Yeah. Exactly and.
And yeah, like it won't even take as long as it did the first
(38:22):
time, right? Because at that point you've
betrayed her twice. And that's The thing is women
feel betrayed. They feel like they signed up
for marriage and they recorded, right?
And then they get married and now the man doesn't even pay
attention to her, not even romance her.
Pay attention to her, right? And so, yeah, she's going to be
like, why did I even do this? Why did I even get married?
(38:44):
Like, again, it feels more lonely being with somebody that
supposedly loves you than being alone.
Like, And everything's just gone.
He doesn't even pay attention toher anymore.
And like women get so frustratedbecause again, they they're just
like, well, men should know this, this is common sense.
(39:06):
This is not like women knowledge.
And again, some of it is the singular focus.
I do believe that. But also at the same time, I
feel like some of this is basic human knowledge that either men
are not focusing on or again, they didn't like learn how to be
in a relationship properly. And so, you know, The thing is
(39:29):
you have to, you have to really commit to this because if she's
that far gone, she's asking you for a divorce.
Like you said, she's already well made that decision and it
will take extreme measures to get her back, extreme change.
And it's not asking her, it's not begging her.
It's not saying you're going to do all these things.
(39:51):
It's not any of that. It has to be your changed man.
And. You got to think about it this
way too. As a man, it's like in order for
you to even have that relationship back, you need to
be the leader and the authority in their relation.
You need to be the man in the relationship.
So if you grovel and beg her back, how are you now the man?
(40:14):
Like how that's changing the nature of the relationship where
she's going to be the one holding all the cards.
So even though she's leaving you.
You still have to have her come back on your terms, meaning that
she comes back to you because she sees that she that you're a
man that she wants to be with and she doesn't want to lose
you. Which you know, it's like you
(40:34):
can't beg and grovel at her feet.
Not because even not even because it won't work, which it
won't, but because if it did work, you'll be setting yourself
up for failure. Because now she would be holding
all the cards in a relationship and she would be the dominant
one in the relationship. And be even more masculine.
Exactly. You got to step up and be the
leader. The only way that she's going to
allow you to be the leader is ifshe actually comes back to you
(40:57):
rather than you chasing her downright?
Which is a tall order. Yeah, again, the other thing I
think to say about this is that it's not to say that the that
the woman in in this situation has not done a whole whole bunch
of wrong things, right? Maybe she hasn't even been a
very Good Wife at all or whatever it was or like, like
(41:17):
that. That can be the case.
But it still doesn't change how she feels and, and the fact that
you're the man, you're supposed to be the leader.
So if she was doing things wrong, then you should have been
giving her correction. But you have to be doing the
right thing in order to give someone else correction.
So if you were stepping up and doing what you're supposed to be
(41:37):
doing, and then you were helpingher with the issues that she was
facing internally and improving herself as a person, then you
would have gotten into this messeither.
So you can't like, you know, youcan't be like, Oh, well, she's
the one who screwed up this relationship and did all these
things. There may be truth to it, but
you were the leader who was the one who is responsible for the
relationship, and you abdicated that.
(41:58):
I would say that then you shouldhave known that the divorce was
probably coming. Then if you notice that but
you're not noticing anything else, that's it's not great.
Like I would ask a man why he got married if he just gets in
it and he checks out and does whatever he wants to do.
(42:19):
And if you're a man that you feel like you can't pick up on
the hints, then I feel like it'syour responsibility as a man to
check in with your wife and ask her how she's doing and try to
talk to her and see where your relationship is.
I don't think you have to do that.
I think that you can tell the vibe.
(42:40):
But if you can't. Then you should act.
And things seem a little weird or it's been a while.
Ask her be like, hey, how are you doing?
Like you know what, what is on your plate?
Is there anything that I can help you with?
And like, I mean, try to figure it out without her telling you.
But I can guarantee that if you're in like the beginning
(43:01):
stages where the resentment is starting to build up and you
feel like you're disconnecting from each other, that if you
check in and you communicate more, it'll also help you
realize like where you need to step up.
And then maybe you do have to ask her, like, how can I help
you Or like, what can I do, right?
(43:23):
And she tells you, you know, it would be nice if you took the
trash out. OK, you do that.
And then you continue to do thatbecause you know that if it
helped her one time, it would help her all the other times.
Exactly. You know, So if you're not
catching on right on your own, because this is new to you,
again, if you're like completelyoblivious, this is going to be
hard for you. I'm not going to lie.
(43:43):
There's things that you can do. You can pay more attention, but
if you're not picking up on any cues, have the conversation.
Yeah, yeah. And find out exactly.
Right, and then do that and thenonce you know a few things, you
can be like, oh OK, well she wants me to take the trash out.
So what if I also do this for her as well too?
What if I also like, you know, put the trash can out at the the
(44:09):
for the dump truck to come and pick it up or, you know, like
things that kind of tie together, things that you can
just keep on accumulating until you feel like she's kind of
warmed back up to you. Yeah.
Yeah. And do it because you're a
responsible adult, not because you're a good little boy, right?
(44:29):
No. Yeah.
Seeking because you're contributing to your family.
You're contributing to your marriage not because like your
wife wants you to do it, becauseit's also your trash.
Because then if your wife wants to do it and you're doing it,
who's in charge? Who's the leader, Right, Right.
It's like you take the leadership by saying, OK, I hear
what you're saying like I and I and I hear that I haven't been
(44:51):
been doing as much as I should. I'll take care of that.
Right. And then you take care of that.
Yeah, that's it. Then you're the leader.
But if you're doing it just because, oh, she wants me to,
oh, I'm get in trouble if I don't take out the right please,
like, then you're just being a little kid.
Like yeah, I feel like yeah, I feel like that's just, yeah,
lacking accountability. Yeah.
Cuz again, it's like this is also your house.
(45:11):
This is also your trash. You're not doing her a favor by
taking out the trash that you also contribute to.
You know what I mean? Like this still that's it's part
of your home too. So but if you view it as like
she wants me to take out the trash or she wants me to do
that, then you're not really. You're missing the entire point,
really. Exactly, but what you asked also
(45:33):
about how like what how can men why would men get married?
Like if they're because the answer is is because if a man is
got his his work and he's got sex and he's got food, he can
live just fine. He doesn't need love.
He wants love. He doesn't need love.
Women cannot live without love. That's why women read romance
(45:54):
novels and watch romance movies because they need that in their
life. But a man can be just fine just
going to work, getting sex, getting food.
That's it. Like, you know, miserable life.
But that's that's a man can livelike that.
It feels like it. Well, I guess if you're.
But can a woman live like that without romance and her life
without? She can't live like that.
(46:15):
So that's why is that for a man,he can be in that situation and
feel like everything's fine because he.
Yeah, the love would be nice. OK, it faded.
Whatever. Not a big deal.
Like, I've got these other things.
I've got my hobbies, my interests, I've got my my
friends, I've got food. I get sex like I'm good.
(46:36):
Do you see what I'm saying? So that's that's why it gets to
that point is because he doesn'tsee that there is a problem.
And then and then when she triesto tell him there's a problem,
he's like, oh, she's just nagging me.
She's just complaining. Why does she just make trouble,
right? Because to him, everything's
fine. Like why are you disrupting the
fineness? It's all good.
Like what? Why are you going to come and
make waves when it's all good? Like you got money, you got
(46:58):
food, you're good. You see that's that's the
psychology of it. But I'm not saying it's right,
but that's how it is so. Men are simple yet confusing
creatures. But what else was I going to
say? OK.
So maybe even like the hints that I mean we talked a little
bit about about about like the hints that this is happening.
(47:20):
Yeah, I mean, you said like if she's not even arguing with you,
doesn't even want to like engagein a serious conversation about
something, then she's definitelythat kind of the severe level.
But I mean, what would you say are like the hints?
(47:42):
I mean, I would think passive aggressive comments are probably
a good hint that she's got some resentment and is trying to hint
at you to do the things without telling you directly to do it,
because she still wants to give you the chance to do it on your
own even though she's hinting atit.
(48:04):
Yeah, I think you're in dangerous territory if you're
getting a lot of passive aggressive comments or the.
Nagging, the nagging, like the nagging is usually a you problem
as a man, not a like the woman'snagging comes from a resentment
that's built up. Yeah, right.
So now she has to nag. Feels like she has to nag you
about it because I mean, yeah, women shouldn't nag, right?
(48:26):
But why does a woman usually nag?
When she does, it's because she feels like she doesn't trust you
to be responsible, right? Like, it's really hard to nag
someone that's on top of their shit, right?
Like, what are you going to nag them about, right?
Like, you know, like. That she's asked you multiple
times and you're still not doingit.
That's usually why a woman nags,right?
Right. But if you're proactive, you're
(48:47):
on top of all your shit. How is she going to nag you?
Like what is she going to nag you about?
Like that's true where it's usually come from.
So that's a big, a big hint thatthings are coming down the pipe.
Yeah. But then also like the little
things like, yeah, now she's started going to the gym.
Now she's like trying to do get a raise at her job, like, you
(49:08):
know what I mean? Things like that that you can
see as well. It's like, so she's preparing
the the exit, you know? If you feel like you guys aren't
connected, then you have those are red flags.
But yeah, I think, I can't thinkof any.
She's always talking to Susie atwork at 11:00 PM at night.
(49:31):
What that's more of the a fair 1probably.
That's the a fair one, but. I mean, I feel like you can
tell. I feel like you can tell the
energy, like if your wife's not happy to see you, not like being
affectionate towards you, Like I'm not saying that if she
(49:52):
doesn't do it like once or twice, then she's going to
divorce you. But if her typical normal state
around you is not very loving and affectionate, you're
probably in trouble. You're probably neglecting your,
you know, duties in your marriage and in your family
(50:13):
unit. Yeah.
And I think one of the other things I was going to talk about
too is like that, like having the conversation of like whether
you restore it or not, or like even before you restore it or if
you do restore it, of now going through the deep wounds and
having a conversation where you talk to her and say, OK, I just
(50:34):
want to listen. I want to hear how I've hurt you
so that you can get all that out.
And I can understand, you know how you felt because she's got
all this pent up emotional energy and resentment that you
need to get that out. And she needs to see that she
can express that without you being butthurt and offended by
(50:56):
it and being phased by it and just listening and hearing it.
So that then she can start to feel that it's safe to actually
express those things in the future when things come up to
express them. So they don't get pushed down
and bottled up. Yeah, right.
And and turn into resentment. So no, definitely.
(51:16):
Yeah, I think that pretty much covers it, unless you can think
of what else. I mean, I guess the only thing
that I would say to women actually is that you should read
The Empowered Wife and The Surrendered Wife and try, even
if he hasn't stepped up yet, tryto give him the reins.
(51:43):
And hopefully that could also wake him up.
Like there is something that youcan still do as a woman and it's
not nagging. It's not, you know, passive
aggressive comments. Allow him to flounder if he's
going to flounder, like give hima responsibility, give him
something. And if he forgets to do it or he
doesn't do it, he has to suffer those consequences.
(52:05):
And a lot of times that helps men step up and helps them
become more aware. But if it's not working, or if,
you know, I don't know, for somereason that doesn't work, I feel
like it should work, then you need to have a conversation with
him. I know you probably had
multiple, but at least communicate what's going on.
(52:28):
And, you know, it is up to him whether he listens to that or
not because like you said, a lotof women, they've tried to have
this conversation multiple times.
But I also don't want women to think that men can read their
mind or things like that. If you want something, ask for
help right to, you know, like, yeah, ask for help.
(52:52):
And again, I feel like some women won't get the help that
they want. And that's kind of why they're
in this situation. I do feel like these are the
extreme versions and that they probably have asked for help and
they probably have had these conversations.
But just try all that you can doto actually save the marriage.
(53:14):
And then, you know, it is up to him.
And again, like you said, he's either when you get to a point
where you ask him for a divorce,he's either going to step up or
he's not. And I know that women also don't
want to get divorced, but like you said, they don't also want a
man child to have to add on to her responsibilities when she's
(53:34):
doing all the things either. Yeah, exactly so and that's so
good reminder too, for books formen Masculine in Relationship by
GS Youngblood and Way, The Superior Man by David Data.
Read those books, you know if you're at the.
I mean you need to read both of them, but masculine relationship
might be a higher priority if you're at.
(53:55):
The divorce stage. Yeah, but but both of them will
be be useful to you but. And then the surrendered wife or
the empowered wife from Laura Doyle and the Queen's code.
Yeah, by Allison Armstrong. Exactly, but it can be.
It can be fixed, but it's it. Can be turned around.
For sure, you're gotten if you're gotten, if you've gotten
(54:16):
to the point that she's pretty set on divorce, like you said,
this, this did not happen recently.
Yeah, it's been in her mind. So yeah, it's going to take a
lot, but you can do it if you'rereally committed to it.
Yeah, but just yeah, don't chaseher down and don't and even I
mean maybe even like she keep goes forward with it like all
(54:39):
because it takes a long time. It's not a quick process.
And so you've got time on your side as a man.
Like you don't have to be like, Oh, I, I got to fix this right
now. I got to like convince her no,
like you have probably six months a year to show consistent
behavior and show that you're stepping up and become a a new
person, you know, a new man and and you can win her over over
(55:04):
that over that time, you know, because you're kind of starting
over from scratch, like you're trying to whir over, you know,
except that you've got a bad mark on it.
Like, you know, so, but but that's The thing is because it
doesn't work. I've never heard of a guy and
I've talked to a lot of guys. I've never heard of a guy where
he's been in the situation and he's like talked to her and
(55:27):
convinced her to stay or like, like done all these things and
and like showed her like very suddenly how he like expressed
his love for her, right? And that's worked.
It's not gonna be an instant thing.
It takes time. Yeah, cuz it's not.
She does. It's not that like she needs you
to express your love for her andtell her how much she means to.
(55:47):
And like, that doesn't mean anything at this point because,
yeah, it hasn't been shown for such a long time.
Well, guys, yeah, guys have to realize that it took a long time
for it to get this bad. Yeah, So it's gonna take a
decent amount of time for to getgood again.
She's not just going to instantly be like OK, I believe
you and then go back after she'smourned and felt alone for a
(56:09):
very long time. Yeah, yeah.
But the good news for men is that a woman wants you to step
up and be this, the man that she's always wanted you to be or
that you used to be like, to save the day.
Like that's what a woman wants. If she feels like you're not
capable of it. Yeah, genuinely, then it's,
(56:30):
yeah, it's not gonna work. But if you used to be the man
and you used to make her feel a certain way, and you show up as
that man again permanently, yeah, you're gonna be the hero.
And isn't that what every man wants to be?
Exactly, Yeah. So harness that energy.
Be the hero. Be her hero.
Save her from you. Save her from the old version of
(56:50):
you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's true. It's true, yeah.
But yeah, OK. I think, yeah, I think we, we
pretty much covered it. But yeah, hopefully that's,
that's helpful. If if there's someone that needs
this message, you know, share itwith them, help save them.
Because I always hate to, you know, I hear the situation so
(57:10):
many times and I'm like, you need to like you need to get
some help here because you need to fix it.
Also just to give it a shout outto why did I just forget his
name? Just to give a shout out.
Man, I just forgot who. Let me just pull it up real
(57:34):
quick. Why?
Why didn't I forget a thing? Who is my brain is not working
mystery. Shout out.
What I definitely forgot Josh. Josh.
Oh that's what I thought, but I didn't want to say the wrong.
No, Josh, Josh Hudson, he has a,a program called Marriage
(57:55):
mastery. I think is, is what it is.
He has a YouTube channel and everything, but he, I mean, he,
he does. He's in my mastermind group and
he's a friend of ours and he helps men.
You know, he basically gives this very similar advice, I
would say to us, We're we're pretty much on on on par with
with what the the message of howto win your wife back.
(58:16):
But that's what he's specializedin.
He has a program and yeah. So if you feel like you need the
extra help to do that, then yeah.
Then go check out Josh Hudson and Marriage mastery.
I think it's what it what it's called or we.
Just looked at. Him.
Well, I was trying to see what his program's called, but just
(58:37):
to make sure, I want to make sure I give the right.
Oh, yeah, it's marriage mastery.Look, I got it right.
So it's like Josh. Yeah.
Josh Hudson or Josh. Yeah, that's what I said.
(58:57):
Josh Hudson. Yeah.
OK. Marriage mastery.
Good. All right, all right.
Or if there's anything that we didn't cover in this episode
that you want us to talk about on another episode or in the
beginning of another episode, leave us comments and we'll go
over it and check out our podcast website,
betterthanperfectpod.com and share, share the word of Better
(59:24):
than Perfect with all your friends and family.
All right. We'll see you guys next time.
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