What if thriving with ADHD isn’t about fixing yourself—but redesigning your life around what actually works for your brain?
In this week’s Social Saturdays episode of Beyond Chronic Burnout, I’m joined by ADHD and neurodiversity coach Alexia Hetzel for a powerful, paradigm-shifting conversation on how high-achieving ADHDers can create sustainable success—on their own terms.
Based in Luxembourg, Alexia blends research, coaching, and lived experience to help ADHDers (and those who support them) move beyond burnout and into alignment.
In this episode, we explore:
- 💡 What Alexia’s research reveals about high-achieving ADHDers
- 🔄 How to use transitions as a strategy—not a stumbling block
- 🕒 Why "neuronormative time" doesn’t work for ADHD brains (and what to do instead)
- 🎨 Life Design: building a rhythm that aligns with how your brain works
- 🍋 Finding your JUICE: why not all ideas need to become outcomes to be valuable
🔔 Subscribe + turn on notifications so you never miss an episode of Beyond Chronic Burnout—where we explore what it really means to thrive as autistic women.
This is the episode that finally gives you permission to stop fighting your brain—and start celebrating it.
🎁 Grab free burnout tools & weekly bonuses for your journey: https://energize.whittingtonwellbeing.com/therecharge
🔗 Subscribe to The Recharge:
https://energyuplevel.kit.com/becomeafan
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Have you ever felt that Sunday evening dread, knowing another week is looming? 🌟As someone who has been there, I understand the feeling of your to-do list spiraling out of control.
That's why I'm thrilled to introduce Alignment Sundays - a sanctuary designed just for you. Join Us!
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This could be the change you've been seeking. Together, let's turn Sunday evenings into a time of peace and preparation, rather than dread.
Ready to reclaim your week? Let's embark on this journey together.
Get Started this Sunday:
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🌿 Ready to reconnect with your authentic Self and finally step into your Comfort Zone? Get your copy of Living Unmasked: An Autistic Woman’s Guide to Get Into Your Comfort Zone—and start your journey out of burnout and into sustainable well-being.
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You don’t have to hustle your way to healing. Let’s unmask gently, together. 💛
#AutisticBurnout #SelfDiscovery #AutisticWomen #WellBeing #SelfHelp
🌐 Connect with Alexia and explore her work at:Website - mondaycoach
Research Paper - How Positive Deviance in High-Achieving Adults with ADHD can Inform Strength-Based Coaching and Life Design to Complement Traditional ADHD Management
University-approved version: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4985832
Extended version (because I realized last minute I had written double the word count!):
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, welcome to the show, Alexia.
I'm so excited that you were here today and we are talking
not only about your research, but around all of the things
that you have learned and what has worked for you, what you
have found has worked for your clients for high achieving ADHD
years. It's social Saturdays.
The vibe feels right. Carol Jean's got the Mike.
(00:22):
Sparking light. We're building bridges, hearts
open wide, sharing stories wherethe real reside.
Artistic women creating the space, community, love.
It's a warm embrace. Connection's the key to
breakthrough the haze. Together we shine in a world we
(00:43):
amaze. Social Saturday is living loud,
breaking through the silence, proud with laughter and love.
We're all alive, being ourselvesin the truest.
We are wild and free. I'm so happy to be here.
(01:03):
Thank you so much for the invitation.
I am so glad to be joining you all the way from Luxembourg.
I know, right? That's one of the best things
that I have really enjoyed so much over the last few years,
especially hosting the show, is that I get to connect with
people from all over it's. Lovely.
(01:24):
I get to bring in, yeah, different time zones, but like
different cultural experiences, you know, different, different
backgrounds. And this is this is what's so
beautiful about the world that we live in today.
So I always love to start the show off because, you know, we
have this beautiful new format that we're in this year, in
2025. And I'm so excited to have you
(01:46):
as part of this, this new inaugural step into what beyond
chronic burnout is. And that is we always like to
start talking with our guest first with like, what is burnout
to you? What is that meant to you in
your life? Wow, burnout is something that I
have definitely experienced. It also, interestingly, is what
(02:10):
led to my ADHD diagnosis. So yes, I think that I probably
have experienced it many more times than I even know.
But my experience of it has beenthis feeling of being cramped up
(02:32):
by all the contortions that I was imposing on myself and my
brain and even my spirit, especially in the workplace.
So it wasn't so much about too much to do.
It was about I can't be me. I cannot be me.
(02:53):
And that takes a toll. It takes a toll to mask.
It takes a toll to feel lonely in your way of thinking and
approaching life. And So what burnout to me is, is
those days where, you know, evengoing out to get my mail seemed
impossible because I was simply devastated and physically
(03:16):
exhausted from, you know, a sequence of events or months
basically masking and not being able to be myself.
What I love is, is that so much of the work that you you do
professionally has just been this beautiful extension of that
(03:38):
experience. And it's like, well, how do I
fix it? And I think that's where my
research came from. It's like, I'm suffering, I'm
struggling. How do I?
Fix this. Yes, exactly.
Yes, that's exactly what what happened to me.
It was it. It was basically OK.
How do I solve this and how do Ihelp people not get into that
loop? Yeah, very much.
(04:00):
Oh my gosh, yes. And you have a beautiful
research paper talking about thepositive deviance that strengths
based coaching strategies with life design, right?
I love that life design. Oh my gosh, that's so beautiful.
And the strengths based approachis something that I within the
(04:22):
unveiling method is a big part of sort of the unmasking that
unveiling process. Because I think for so many of
us, we hear the world say, well,you're really good at this, but
it may not be what lights us up.We might be good at it, but we
may not enjoy it. And I think the strengths.
Is. Finding what we're naturally
(04:43):
good at, but also the intersection of what lights us
up. What do we love?
So Alexia, dive in and tell us about your research.
First of all, like what? What prompted your hypothesis
and and how did this this particular research begin?
(05:04):
Wow, OK, so it's very interesting the way it began
because I initially wanted to work on something completely
different to do with with ADHD women looking at the hormones,
dopamine axis and and then I thought for sure there is
(05:25):
someone already doing this. And in the meantime, actually,
it, it's been done so good. But then I thought, you know, I
just sort of took a step back and looked at my four years of
four and a bit years now of practice as an ADHD coach.
And I thought, OK, what is it that I can talk about?
(05:46):
That's part of my work. I can that I can talk about for
hours with any friend who will listen and we all thankfully
have those friends that will listen.
Yes, yes, we very, very good at the nodding along and everything
and yes and thank goodness for them.
So I realized that what I love is talking about how wonderfully
(06:14):
creative and resilient a lot of ADHD folks are.
And so I thought, well, OK, but I want to know amongst those who
go through life with ADHD and consider themselves happy high
(06:36):
achievers, I thought, OK, those brilliant minds that I coach and
that I love, how do they do it? I just thought, where is the
practical evidence of how they live their life?
There's a little bit of stuff out there about people with ADHD
(07:00):
being great entrepreneurs and people with ADHD being very
creative. But I thought, well, I, what I
really want to know is what theyeat, what's, what, what exercise
they do, how they sleep, what their, what their homes look
like, what everything about them, what, how they have
(07:23):
designed their life. And so that's, that's what
sparked it. I thought I I would.
I basically wanted to create thepaper that I would have liked to
read. The the the goodness, the juice,
as my friend Kara says, the juice in this, and I love that
you use the term your juice to we're going to get to that a
(07:46):
little bit. You guys stick around.
It's so beautiful because I think one of the things in late
identification that I've noticed, be it if you're late
identified autistic ADHD, you know, any variation within our,
our neurodivergent neurotype is we have all created these
(08:07):
success enablers in our life, these support structures that
we're not consciously or with intention aware that it is
supporting a place that maybe was a challenge along the way.
And it, what's so interesting isin my research, this is, this is
what I love so much about our ADHD life.
(08:28):
My ADHD research partner, DoctorAli Arena and I, one of the
questions we wanted to answer, have answered, 'cause we know
what it is in our life and we were looking to like how do we
decrease our own shame and and guilt around this?
We wanted to know how do you organize?
We wanted to know is a pile partof your organizational system in
some way? 100% of respondents said a pile
(08:53):
in some form or fashion is part of their organizational system.
Excellent. So when you were talking about
just what does your home environment look like, I'm like,
well, if it's ADHD folks, they got a pile somewhere.
Even if it's in a basket behind closed doors, in a drawer for
(09:14):
sure. Oh my gosh.
So as you started to dive into looking for the evidence of what
are you doing? How are you being to produce the
person that you are today? What started to come up?
What elements? Came up in your research.
(09:38):
So a ton came out and to be honest, I asked it was a very
long questionnaire, 50 questionsand and I I even had one
respondent that said in one of the answers, you know, I'm
having difficulty with this verylong survey, ha, ha, ha.
So I there was, there was reallya ton.
(09:59):
So it will be it would be difficult to go into details,
but I did get some things that Ithought were I will, I will tell
you about the highlights and thealso the surprises.
One of the questions was what have you tried, you know, in
terms of medication, therapy, anything that is sort of medical
(10:22):
or paramedical? That was one of the questions.
And one respondent had at some point tried 10 different medical
or paramedical interventions at the same time.
And I thought, wow, yes, yes. And so that is that that was the
(10:44):
first thing to me. I was like, I was thinking, Oh
my goodness, just managing thosestreams for an ADHD or would
have been just exhausting, right?
So that was quite interesting, the fact that almost all the
respondents had tried some form of medicated or therapeutic
help. And so most of them had tried at
(11:07):
least one. But yes, there was definitely a
mix. They were moving from one to
another. So you're really seeing, you're
you, you could really see basically people who are trying
to find their sweet spot in between all those possibilities
and really testing a lot. So that was one interesting
(11:28):
thing. Another thing that really that
made me laugh really because I asked, I wanted to know what
tips people could share that they use to get good sleep.
Oh, I love this one, 'cause you know, that's the first thing to
go offline and burnout, it's thelast thing to come back.
Right. And so I, I expected maybe you
(11:50):
know this, you know, the melatonin and sleep routine kind
of like standard answers. And I had to actually publish
this as part of the research in one of the appendices because
the the total list is of 39 tips, right?
It was very yes, yes. I thought, Oh my goodness.
(12:14):
Some one of the respondents, I think had a list of nine things
that they considered to be part of their, of them getting good
sleep, whether it's a ritual, whether it's something they
wear. What was also interesting in
the, the thing about sleep was that when I, when I went to dig
(12:36):
a little bit further, a, a part of the whether it's whether it's
medication or whether it's a ritual or some of this stuff was
already sort of scientifically being looked at, right?
So there was some evidence there, but for some of them
(12:58):
there really was none. And what I loved about this is
that, you know, those those respondents, they probably know
that wearing a silk bonnet is not going, is not actually going
to help you get good sleep. But they didn't care.
They put it in there. Why?
Because it is. Somebody is peeking in my
bedroom. Excuse me, somebody's peeking.
(13:21):
In my bedroom. Do they know I have a purple
silk bonnet in there? No, but.
You know, I thought, and I thought it was great that they
would list it as what helps themget good sleep because we're not
even that took things to a wholeother level for me because it
was like, OK, so we're not just talking about science based
(13:41):
stuff. We're talking about what works
for them, what did, what is partof their ritual, what are the
things that they need to check off to feel and be in the
emotional, physiological state, to be ready for bed.
And that was I. I just, I found that beautiful.
(14:02):
This is so good it's glorious. Yes, I thought it was a really
amazing yes. That alone is its whole separate
study, by the way. I know I'm doing that one.
Next no idea the number of studies that could follow from
this one. I I could be busy for the rest
of my life with this, so I really really enjoyed this.
What I also thought was interesting was the, so this is
(14:28):
really what this is the biggest highlight for me.
Yes, there were a lot of things having been tried in, in terms
of therapeutic help, terms of coaching, terms of sleep,
routine, exercise, food. Actually, not so much what, but
what, what, what stood out for, for, for eating habits was that
(14:52):
people were paying attention to what they were eating.
So whether they were actually preferring certain foods or, or
or others, the the what, what stood out is that they were
fully conscious of the link between their well-being and the
food. But what really really stood
out, and what really helped me confirm my sense when I started
(15:17):
this study, was self acceptance.Oh wow, that.
Is huge. So many of the respondents in
their concluding remarks basically said the moment I
(15:37):
stopped feeling the need to fit in or the moment I stopped
beating myself up, the moment I realized that, you know, things
are just as they are, I'm OK with who I am.
That is when they felt they werein control.
(15:57):
That is also how they that's also where they felt they were
then making more informed decisions about the kind of care
they may need. And so a lot of quite a few of
the respondents explained that, you know, pills can help and
exercise can help, but a, it is actually not just one of those
(16:22):
things. It's going to be a whole puzzle
that you create that you carve the pieces off because every
individual is different and B and I shouldn't start sentences
like this is an ADD or because Isometimes have trouble
remembering what B is. But but but it's not just me.
(16:42):
No, my first and D. Yes, I used to say I have three
things to say about this and I don't do that anymore.
And now I've lost B Wait and where was I?
I don't know. The holistic puzzle.
Yes, the holistic puzzle, sorry.So you might have to to edit
(17:06):
this. Just give me a moment.
Oh, yes. OK, So, A, it's going to be an
entire puzzle, all those pieces that you put together and B, you
are, you need to learn exactly who you are, what your process
(17:29):
is, what, what things you can put in place in your everyday
life, what fits you, what is a good fit for you.
And that will mean that you can be more selective or more
informed about do you need medication, when, for what kind
(17:49):
of tasks, etcetera. So that was really it was the
basic pills don't teach skills you know and and even those who
take medication still now and say that it helps did say this
will not do the job alone. You have to embrace who you are,
(18:11):
embrace your brain, tame it and instead of I think one
responded, put it this way, whenyou are just resorting to
exterior help, exterior leverage, you are taming a tiger
(18:31):
when you know yourself you are the tiger.
I can't hear you anymore, by theway.
No, I, I'm just nodding and I'm thinking and I'm just, I'm, I'm
downloading and allowing that tojust sit.
(18:59):
All of those, everything that you have talked about from your
research resonates with me so directly.
So of the highlights, what was the biggest surprise to you in
the study data? I think the biggest surprise for
(19:21):
me was that, and this is actually something that I did
not mention directly in the paper, but that wasn't the data
and it was the average age at which those people were
diagnosed with ADHD, because it was 34, I believe, or 30.
(19:41):
So it's mid, we're in mid 30s. Very few of them were diagnosed
in in childhood or teenage years.
I thought that was really interesting.
And that's probably also something that could turn into
another piece of research. But I found it interesting that
(20:05):
a sample of people who self identify as high achievers with
ADHD would be mostly diagnosed in adulthood.
How many women versus men did you have respond?
It was a pretty I would I I would have to double check
again, but I know that it was pretty balanced.
It was almost 5050. Oh, that's interesting.
(20:27):
And that was not even done on purpose.
I'm just just got really lucky. Right.
I love how those things come together.
But from all but from all of theresearch, from from the
responses that you gained as youbegan to put all these pieces
together, how does this come into life design and define for
us what is life? Design, Alexia.
(20:51):
Well, life design is, is puttinga designer lens on how you piece
together the different streams in your life.
And I don't know if you're familiar with design thinking
that's a little bit more know well known, right.
This idea that you are human centred.
(21:13):
You're centred on your user or the person you're trying to help
or service. Yeah, universal design.
Yes, yes. And so putting yourself in that
person's shoes is where you start in order to create a
product. And when you apply design
thinking to your life, you are the user and you are trying to
(21:37):
understand what it is that you need no one else, not your
neighbor, not your wife, you right.
And so it's, it's basically the,the application of design
thinking to life. And it introduced as something
(21:59):
that I think can really, really help ADHD folks because ADHD
folks can sometimes get, well, no, I was actually toning that
down. But our very binary, right?
We're sort of all or nothing. We have this black and white
thinking a lot of the time. And so we're either in a place
(22:21):
where we have a lots of routinesin place and then we exhaust
ourselves and all the routines fall out the window and for
maybe a few weeks we're sort of without guard rails and things
like this. So it's sort of all or nothing.
And with life design, that comesfrom design thinking, you are
allowing yourself, you're givingyourself permission to use
(22:44):
prototypes and to iterate and toreally use a sort of constant
feedback loop to keep that momentum.
So let's say you are trying to get to sleep earlier.
OK, you can, you can try one method without getting into the
(23:04):
nitty gritty because this is another ADHD thing.
People will start looking for the best app or the perfect
pillow or the, you know, there. There's going to be this and
then there's going to be this decision paralysis of Oh my
goodness, I have 18 potential potential pillows.
How do I do this? Maybe I need to create a
spreadsheet where it's to do like a compare comparison.
(23:26):
Oh, what will be the variables, etcetera.
We can go down those rabbit holes and just really, really
tire ourselves out just like that without even getting to do
the thing that we want to try. So.
If you just got called out, it'sOK, we understand.
Yes, yes, as you just spoke directly to so many of us.
(23:49):
If you think like a designer, that means you are focused on
the function, the functionality,You know, what is the function
of what we are trying to do here?
OK, it is to get better sleep. OK, So what would be the MVP?
(24:09):
That's another design thinking term, MVP, minimum viable
product. What can be the bare minimum
version of your new habit that you can test out?
So that's sort of something thatI think fits especially ADHD
brains because you are giving yourself permission to keep it
(24:34):
simple. You are not losing focus on why
you're doing it and going into rabbit holes of Amazon
comparison products. And you are, you know,
collecting data about yourself and then moving on to the next
stage of that product design or habit design or routine design
(24:58):
or anything you want. So Alexia, part of what I've
found in the work that I've doneis that the self trust piece
plays a part in this. So much for a lot of us, you
know, and when we have executivefunction challenges or there's a
(25:21):
cognitive load or decision fatigue that comes in, there's a
place where we come to where I just don't trust.
Like if I miss doing this one thing that it throws me off and
then the next day I'm not doing it.
And the next thing I know, it's a month later and I'm not doing
the thing that helps me because it got off track somewhere
around here. And it becomes this place of I
(25:44):
can't trust myself if I don't doit because then if I'm not doing
it. So then we almost become
obsessive about it because we don't trust that.
Well, if it falls off, I'm stillgoing to be OK and I can
reassess and bring back in what I need.
Or it might be the thing that allows me to say, you know,
actually that doesn't work as well as I thought it was
(26:07):
working. Yes, yes, that I think that
there's also that's also where life design thinking can be
quite useful because I, I also like sometimes to invite my
clients to just be OK with messing up and to also pick
(26:31):
their battles right. And what I mean by this is that
so in, in design thinking or life design, you, you can also
make a choice, right, to determine what are, what can be
called gravity problems, the things about you or about your
(26:51):
circumstances that will not change like gravity or you
having a terrible memory and really needing to write
everything down, right? I mean, of course there are some
things you can do to jug your help jug your memory and stuff.
But what I mean is that you, you're not going to
fundamentally change some of thequirks about you.
(27:12):
And so what's also useful is to this is to have this moment in
your life or several moments in your life where you stop and you
think, OK, is this forgetfulness, for example,
something I'm really going to continue to to despise about
(27:35):
myself? Am I going to continue taking
energy, just telling myself how silly it is that I need all
those reminders that, you know, put it in a black box, consider
it a gravity problem, and you know, that's OK.
Then there are the problems thatyou can actually manage or solve
(27:59):
or design around. So already having that
distinction, you know of what you can control, what you can't
control, and at least keeping focused on what you can control
and better about yourself. I think that's one really
important piece as well, is the,you know, some things are not
(28:20):
going to change and that's OK, right?
That's OK. I mean, the latest example I
have from myself is I, I try, I have this flagging system where
if I order something and I'm waiting for the parcel, I flag
it in my e-mail. And sometimes I guess I forget
to flag one. And recently I had this slip in
(28:42):
my letterbox saying come pick upthis parcel at the post office,
we missed you when you were not home, etcetera.
And I had no idea what this order was.
And then I it started stressing me out because the deadline to
pick it up was approaching. I was very busy and, and it was
really cold outside. And I was like, oh, today's the
(29:04):
last day and I'm feeling a bit ill.
And I was really giving myself. I was just really stressing
myself out. And then I thought, you don't
even remember what's in the parcel.
And so I just thought, if I don't remember what it is, I
probably don't need it right now.
It's probably not crucial. So I just threw the slip away.
(29:28):
That is bold. That is bold I.
Know but it felt so I love it liberating.
I love it. I was like, I mean you.
Know what? It's OK.
Power. Right exactly, I thought and I
even posted something on my Instagram about this.
I thought you know what this thing I'm going to let it go.
I am not going to ruin my day over this.
(29:50):
And sure enough, 2 weeks later Ihad a refund from some company
about some, you know gadget. I had ordered the.
Midnight order some Instagram order.
Right, they would exactly. You know what I do so and so you
know, the being OK with those things that don't have huge
(30:13):
consequences is so liberating. Oh my gosh, I just I'm just
cheering hearing you, you doing it.
It is that is making me feel so good.
So Alexi, I know you have some counter intuitive insight around
life design. Give us, give us the goodness on
this one. Yes.
(30:33):
So I, I don't know how how how popular this will be with with
our listeners, but I actually I've.
Been that makes me want it even more.
OK, OK, good. So I, I like to, I, OK, so I
like to think that as someone with ADHDI have an emotional
(30:58):
brain, I need to feel good and excited and at peace, etcetera,
about a number of things. Basically, there are a number of
things that need to be aligned that need to be there for me to
even get close to the mind spacewhere I can get things done.
And sometimes I spend so much time beating myself up about all
(31:25):
the things that I need to be doing that of course I'm not
doing them. So typical sort of freeze and
procrastination. But then I also realized that
I've been spending so much time thinking about not doing things
that I've also neglected tidying, tidying up or cleaning
around in my apartment or my hair or my nails or anything
(31:47):
like this, right? And so I think, OK, right now I
feel like I'm getting out of into a spiral.
What can I do that will make me feel like I've got it together?
And that's not necessarily actually getting the stuff done
and. That that is such a powerful
(32:09):
question. Say that again.
What helps me feel like I've gotit together?
Because that could just be anything for anybody, but it's
what's going to make you feel. Yes, yes.
You've got it together. Yes.
Like for me, sometimes the answer to that question is I get
(32:31):
dressed and I do my hair and makeup and then everything else
feels like I got. If I got, if I look like I got
it together, then I feel. Like, I got it, you got it, you
got it. It's that in rude cognition kind
of thing, yes. And for some people, it will be,
you know, a pile of laundry that's they just can't get to
work if it's not done it. They feel like there's just that
(32:53):
the excess chaos that is going to create some sort of that's
going to take up bandwidth, right?
And also you want to feel like, yes, you, I've, at least I've
got this right, right. So sometimes it means that
you're getting this stuff done later.
So technically you're like eating frogs for dessert, right?
(33:14):
Not for breakfast. So it sounds kind of
counterintuitive, but I, I, it really, really works for me.
And I'm sometimes I like to think of, OK, so I love
fireplaces. I don't have a fireplace in my
home. What I do, especially now that
we're sort of building up towards the, the winter
holidays, I like to, to watch onNetflix the fake fireplace right
(33:38):
there. I love.
That thing because we don't havea fun.
Of it I love I love fire cracking sound and and you know.
I even bought one of those candles that has the wood Wick
that crack. Yes, they have.
They have several editions. I mean, it's, it's amazing.
So I love those fake fireplace videos.
And so many of my friends have joked that, you know, when it's
(34:00):
on, they come over, they say, but I can almost feel the
warmth, you know? And that is exactly what I'm
referring to when I say that some things may seem like
counterintuitive, but no, if youare putting yourself in some
sort of state mindset or look orwhatever that makes you feel
(34:22):
like you've got things together,then that may just be something
that will get you to get you back on track.
We're taking a quick pause in the show so that I can share a
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this Sunday. Now back to the conversation.
I love that I'm thinking about this in terms of the catalyst or
the linchpin. Yeah, yeah, as we move.
Oh, this is so good. OK.
So what is the most important thing for somebody to know about
(36:18):
life design from this perspective and approach?
I think probably, and this also came up in the research again,
the fact that it's not going to be one thing.
It's not going to be 1 app, it'snot going to be one book.
(36:40):
It's not going to be 1 trick. It's going to be all of it.
Having your water on your on your desk to make sure you stay
hydrated or all the it's going to be all those things.
It's for me, it's even temperature, you know, if it's
too warm, I don't get work done.I need to be just cool enough so
that my extremities are cool. And so I think that with that
(37:07):
life design gives you this flexibility also to just jump
from one thing to the other and not to just be on one stream at
the time. You can.
It's playful, it should be fun. See right there #5 on my list
for my research of the things that impact our optimum steady
(37:30):
state. It is play, joy and laughter.
Oh yeah, for. Sure, and it's the number one
thing people say they don't haveenough of in their.
Life fun. Play joy and laughter.
Oh, OK. Play joy and laughter.
Yeah, fun. People say I don't have enough.
Play joy, laughter. Fun, right?
(37:51):
And it's the number five thing that impacts our our energy and
well-being. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, Life design should be playful.
You should be an like, you should want to be an artist
crafting your life. I.
To me, like the fun, the play inthat is like I always envision
I'm putting my lab coat on and I'm just getting compassionately
(38:13):
curious and I'm just going to play.
I'm going to try this thing and see how I feel or how it works
for me. And I'm not going to get judgy
around the outcome or feel like I have to force an outcome.
I'm just going to, I'm just going to observe in for a little
bit. But I love that that one of the
things that you're talking abouthere, we're talking about life
(38:34):
design is you're also talking about that autonomy, that agency
control, that personal power that we have within ourselves to
craft to lead our life. Yes, one of the biggest
disruptors to that wonderful ideology here around the life
(38:54):
design is our next topic, transactions.
Now as an ADHD, uh, who I was diagnosed as ADHD in my mid 20s.
I wasn't diagnosed with being autistic till I was almost 40,
but one of the things I learned and it didn't click, but I
didn't really realize it to the degree that I did a few years
(39:17):
ago was that I had challenges with transitioning.
And I the biggest transition challenge for me, and it still
is today to a certain degree, iswhen I leave my home and I drive
myself into town 30 minutes awayto the grocery store.
And then I have to get out of the car and go in the grocery
store. And then when I come out of the
(39:38):
grocery store in back into my car and then to drive, well, the
parking lot is this transition zone.
It's like this black hole vortex.
I will drive to the grocery store and then I will sit in my
car anywhere from 5 to 2030 minutes playing on my phone to
(39:59):
like decompress from driving so that I could gear myself up
mentally and physically to then go into the grocery store and
then navigate all the executive functioning it takes to grocery
shop. And then once I've done that, I
come to the car and I'm exhausted and and I get on my
phone for 10 to 20. To 30 minutes with my husband
going, are you OK texting me in the meantime?
(40:22):
I was like, yes, I'll be home ina little bit.
But these transition times for ADHD years, that awareness alone
has been huge for me. But also like being kind of
compassionate to myself and recognizing I need it.
I'm not going from this to this to this.
I've got to have some transitiontime between certain activities,
(40:43):
so talk to us about your research and what you've learned
around transitions for us ADHD years.
Well, from research and from alllike many of my coaching
clients. So this is a mixture.
You're like, do you have transition challenges too?
(41:03):
Yes, but I've got I've, I'm very, very happy to report that
I have become better and better at managing them.
So first, what I want to say about transitions is here we're,
we're a crowd of people. We know, we know what that
means, right? We know what is a transitioning
transition challenge. But actually for people who are
(41:27):
new to the, to their ADHD diagnosis or just the, the theme
of ADHD, I find that it's not addressed enough.
The, the, the challenge with transitions is often very much
overlooked. But when you think about it in
today's world with all the different communication streams,
(41:47):
the tablets, the phone, the e-mail, the Insta, and I'm
calling you because I came to see you to ask if you got my
e-mail, that it's like, wow, OK,you know, it, it's, it's, it's
actually, it's actually a very important topic.
So what I found in the research is that people didn't
necessarily call, they didn't necessarily use the word
(42:09):
transitions, but they did explain that they're when when
they when I was asking about work and productivity and work
life balance, people did indicate that they're using time
blocking, that they're you, thatthey're that they're trying to
(42:32):
merge together tasks or modes that that go together.
So I'm going to explain this a little bit because this is
sounding very abstract probably for now.
But basically being when you arewriting, for example, writing a
(42:52):
paper or writing a poem, or you know, you're, you're, you're
crafting text, you're creating thought you are in a very
specific mode or mindset. And then especially if you have
ADHD, someone comes and interrupts you and asks you a
(43:12):
question about when did you wantto take off again for your
summer holiday? And it's like you got this
freeze, like, you know, I, one of my clients described it as
this sudden interruption and transition feels like I'm having
(43:33):
to let one's brain software shutdown, cool off, and then I need
to turn on another software and wait for it to warm up until I
am fully with that person. And then if I need to go back to
whatever I was doing before my other mode, my other software,
(43:56):
it's going to take that same effort again.
And I coach a lot of entrepreneurs and I know that
when people are solopreneurs especially, they are looking for
funding, they are marketing themselves, they are having
calls. Sometimes they're recruiting
(44:17):
people if they don't want to be sore preneurs anymore.
They are creating their content,they're doing the the core job.
They're they're basically, they have so many streams happening.
And a lot of my client entrepreneurs were jumping from
a recruitment call to a client call to a funding meeting to A
(44:40):
and it was and I thought, wait, of course it takes you about 10
minutes to land in the meeting. You are calling upon a
completely different mode in you.
So why don't you try to group them?
It's of course it depends on what your work is and how much
(45:01):
freedom you have. But as much as possible, I think
transitions should be minimized because if you are constantly
going from e-mail writing to talking to a colleague, to
writing a paper, to going to lunch with another colleague, to
all these different modes. And by the way, modes are very
(45:24):
personal. Some people think, well, you
mean maybe like a client or a file.
And I'm like, well, if that's the way you divide it, then yes.
But I'm more thinking, so they're saying, oh, maybe tasks.
Well, yeah, tasks is closer, butit's really about what mindspace
(45:47):
are you good for right now? You know what?
That is so good. What mindspace are you good for
right now? Yes.
That's a quality question. Yes, I think so too.
I think it's very important to, I mean, of course you don't, you
can't always do it. But I think that as much as
(46:08):
possible, try to make sure that if you are in creative mode, you
are securing a certain amount oftime to be in that creative
mode. And if you're, I have a people
mode, right, I, and, and so there will be days on my
calendar where I know that I will refuse to talk to anyone.
(46:33):
I'm just not in that mode. I, I know myself now I schedule
it. I had an MVP, you know, I tried
time blocking in certain ways and I tested and failed and
tried again. And, you know, now I've got a
good thing going. But those transitions can lead
you to burnout. There's multiple transmissions
(46:56):
where there's so many of them that you don't have flow within
the chunks of your modality. Yes, yes.
Yes, and that is what is the most liberating too.
It's like to recognize it. To recognize it and to, you
know, there's so many people in general, but especially with
ADHD, they say I'm so tired and I feel so busy, but I'm not
(47:19):
getting my stuff done. Well, that's because you're
always switching, you know, and there's a lot of quality time or
quality that or added value that's being lost there in those
transitions as well, right? So yes, transitions, noticing
what your modes are, naming them, not naming them according
(47:42):
to your coach or any book or your modes, giving them your
names, and then managing those transitions from one mood to
another with a lot more intent can really, really help prevent
burnout. Oh, most definitely.
You know, I think about it like a palate cleanser is how I
(48:04):
approach transitions from the sense that, you know, if, if I'm
if I have my, you know, granola for breakfast kind of mode,
right. And then in between.
So I'm going to have some water,some some palate cleansing
refreshment before I move into my salad part of my day right
(48:25):
where I've got like all of my vegetables and stuff.
But I, I, I think about those transitions with intention now
of like I'm grouping my, my mode, all the tasks within that
mode together. They have this flow because the
more I'm switching, the more energy I'm using, the more fuel
(48:46):
I'm burning to maintain shiftingbetween.
And it's like riding four horsesat one time.
You don't do it well, and you risk falling a whole lot more
than. If you did, remember that one,
yes, even 2. Right.
(49:06):
I mean, I think about the acrobats, you know, in the
circus riding, riding around on multiple horses.
And I'm just like, oh, good for you.
But you don't do it all day longeither.
They only do it for that one performance.
And I think that's what we forget.
And as we talk about transition,I think the biggest chunk, the
most important element here is the tab, you know, is ADHD
(49:30):
years. Time blindness was something
number one I didn't recognize was what I was experiencing.
And then when I learned about time blindness and I started to
put into context how I experienced time, when it feels
like for me, the passage of time.
And it was mind blowing but it also changed my life when I
(49:51):
learned how to understand my experience of time.
Talk to us about the research and and what time means for us
as ADHD years. Wow, I'm pretty sure there will
be as many senses or definitionsof time as there will be ADHD
years. That being said, time was a
(50:17):
keyword in the research, right? It came up all the time and it
was time blindness in its fullest.
OK, so sometimes people, so people were expressing, you
know, if I, I feel like I never have enough time or I am not
(50:39):
seeing time properly, I don't feel my deadlines.
They don't feel real, especiallyif they're far off into the
future. There was feeling behind in
time. Yes, yes.
Was that one that came up a lot?That what that was that was
definitely that definitely came up a lot.
(51:00):
And also this idea of how elastic time is.
Quite a few people mentioned sometimes an hour will go by
like this and sometimes it will feel like death.
OK. And so it with that in mind, I
also saw another word came that came up and it happens to be a
(51:25):
design thinking and therefore life design term as well, which
is sprints, right? And so, yes, sprints.
Some of the sparkly good words that I love I.
Know I know right? And so a lot of people in a lot
of respondents in the research admitted, not that there's any
guilt that should be attached toit, but admitted to thinking in
(51:49):
sprints. And this very much correlates
with what I also see in my clients is in that I encourage
them to embrace if that's what works for them.
And So what I am thinking is that part of life design which
could help those respondents andanyone with ADHD is to stop
(52:16):
feeling boxed in by a neuronormative calendar.
You know when I I mean those planners.
Can we get everybody on board for that?
Planners. Planners are daily horizontally
(52:37):
or the end and I just what if, what if I'm not feeling like my
current horizon that I need to focus on is a week or a day or a
month? What if I feel that I'm on a
four week Sprint, you know, and how can I visualize this for
myself? And, and I do this with a lot of
(52:59):
my clients and it's something I use for myself all the time if I
feel, and it doesn't have to be exact, it doesn't have to be an
exact measure. This is why unlearning calendars
can be a really liberating thing.
If you feel like your next Sprint is the next six weeks,
put them on an axis, six week axis and look at how many days
(53:22):
you have between now and that and what feels like that
deadline or inflection point or point of horizon.
You can zoom in and out as much as you want.
Your Sprint can be 6 days, it can be six weeks, it can be
whatever you want, but you can visualize that Sprint and that
(53:43):
Sprint only. You're creating your blinders, I
guess, in a way, and. I'm, I really like that.
I, I ascribe to sort of what Robin Sharma teaches in these
cycles, right? And a lot of other people teach
about, you know, these 90 minutecycles and, and recharging.
(54:05):
And so I played around with thatand I found, well, I do these
sprints that align with my peak performance time.
So my energy rhythm and I playedaround with how many of these do
I comfortably do in a day and what modes do I fit into each
one of those sprints? And that for me has been life
(54:27):
changing. But one of the things that I
love that you talk about when wetalk about time is how and as
sort of as we move into the nextpart of like your juice part.
But it's the comparison trap that we fall into when that is
something that is our optimum state of operation.
(54:49):
And we've learned, OK, these aremy sprints, these are my cycles,
these are my transition. This is how I, you know, my life
by design. But now I've got all these
people telling me that's not howwe do it around here.
It's. True.
It's true. That's.
Weird. Why would you do that?
(55:10):
Why wouldn't you just do it likethis, like everybody else?
Does and you know what? Both things, Both modes, can
coexist. You can have your own Sprint
visualization, your own horizon and still exist.
And then you heard of the world.It works.
(55:30):
I think sometimes it is interesting when I have had sort
of granular conversations with people on different neurotypes,
you know, when we talk about ourour work styles and our learning
styles and I'll describe mine, I'll hear them describe theirs.
And it's really interesting, youknow, as you hear how other
people work with them. And I was like, isn't it
(55:51):
interesting because we've both designed what best supports our
performance, our peak performance and what is a
success enabler for us, which doesn't mean that this once as
fits all approach is going to work.
Because if you had to do it the way I do it, you would not be
(56:12):
performing at your best and feelyour best.
And if you did it, you know I did it like you, I certainly
would. I've tried it would not feel it
my best. So how do we move into getting
it to that place of like your? Juice.
OK, OK, well, so the juice, the juice has something.
(56:36):
It's interesting because what came up in the research is that
people were very, very self aware and very, very conscious
of what they are good at and what they enjoy versus what they
enjoy less and what they maybe need to take themselves by the
(56:58):
hand a little bit more for. And so especially around work,
one of the one of the research questions or one of the survey
questions was what do you like most about your job or what do
you like most about work and what do you hate most about your
work? And it was really interesting
(57:19):
because just to say that the professional landscape behind
the respondents was very, very diverse.
We had some, I had some like researchers, journalists,
auditors, public servants, I mean the the full again, very
(57:39):
lucky, a very, very diverse set of respondents.
But what was really interesting was just to notice that none of
them loved all of the tasks thattheir job entailed.
None of them they. Need to know with anyone
anywhere 100% loves everything they do.
(58:02):
But that's also something that Ithink, I mean, I don't, I, I, I,
I don't recommend getting into ajob and just sucking it up and
just, you know, doing it becauseyou have to.
But with that knowledge in mind of, you know, oh, some people
were saying I'm very, very good at the ideation or at convincing
(58:24):
people or getting them on board or, and then, oh, but I don't
really like the planning or I don't really like, I don't know,
being with clients or, you know,whatever.
With that knowledge in mind, youalso know when you are really
surfing the wave and enjoying yourself and you don't need to
(58:45):
put anything in place really to get to that flow there.
Then you know that the parts that are less fun, that is where
you need to call in the big guns.
So anything else that can make it more fun.
There's a task that you don't like doing, Go and do it in your
(59:06):
favorite coffee shop. Treat yourself to your favorite
matcha latte or whatever. While you're doing the task that
you hate, like change something else about it.
Use a proxy that's going to makethat part that you like less,
less painful. And so that's one thing that
(59:26):
really, really came up in the inthe study is that no one liked
all aspects of their job. And people were very, very aware
of which parts they enjoyed less.
It was not even necessarily thatthey were bad at them, they just
didn't like them, right. And so they did put in place
(59:47):
mechanisms to help, to help walkthemselves through those least
favorite tasks. And another thing about the Jews
that I want to say is that as part of the big lesson of that
research for me, which is the self acceptance piece and the
(01:00:10):
giving yourself grace, peace, the word grace came up a lot and
quite a few people mentioned that.
They're OK with who they are, and they're also OK with not
finishing everything that they start.
And I liked that because, well, it made me feel better,
(01:00:33):
obviously. Yes, yes.
OK, yes. Thank you.
Thank you. I felt almost, you know,
validated myself. Really giving me permission.
OK, yes. And it reminded me of someone I
coached once who was particularly, he was an idea
machine and was very good at drawing.
(01:00:55):
And that person was his thing was to draw very great looking
prototypes of ideas, objects, just things he imagined everyday
life objects that would be helpful to people.
(01:01:15):
And he was like, but I never execute on any of them.
I don't patent them. I don't look for investors.
I don't do anything with them. It's almost like, you know, once
I've done the drawing, the fun part is done.
I was like what's wrong with that?
(01:01:37):
Those beliefs that we hold that somehow we're supposed to.
Supposed to. To be successful.
Right. If he took violin for two years
and we gave up, Oh my goodness, like, oh, I gave up again.
It's like, no, you didn't give up.
You you took it up and then you let it go, right.
(01:01:59):
And so that was that was also liberating.
And I remember that that that one client with his drawings,
when he realized that he was actually just getting the juice
that he needed from that, he decided to have an entire wall
of those drawings to get them framed and to have them as a
(01:02:22):
proud decorative item and something that he could show off
to his friends. And he really became OK with the
idea that he never acted on those ideas, that they were just
there. The the juice had been squeezed.
That was the part that got him going.
Who says you have to execute on everything?
(01:02:46):
Yes. That is the happy Wiz pops and
sparkles and all the juicy goodness is we can't just simply
stand knowing that there can be something that it's not quote UN
quote taken over the finish line.
But we have gotten something from the element of whatever
(01:03:08):
we've done in it that has benefited or been of use to.
Us, yes, all to feed that puzzle.
All to feed that puzzle. Because people with ADHD in
particular have those amazing CVS that, OK, may not make a lot
of sense to many people in the normative corporate world, but
(01:03:30):
they have touched so many things.
They have explored so many different areas, concepts,
professions, themes, passions. They are a unique mosaic of all
those things. Yes, I always say, you know,
when someone looks at my CV, they think it's, you know, 10 or
(01:03:54):
12 different people. There's no way this one woman
has, you know, gone from real estate appraisal to law to
healthcare. And you know, there's how does
any of this make sense? But it makes sense because
everything that, and I think that's the other thing that we
miss in the Jews is that sometimes it's just the
(01:04:17):
experience itself. It's not like we have to gain
something from it. Sometimes it's just that we were
in it, and then there's other times that, yes, we were in it,
but there was a part of it, an element of it that we carry with
us that took us to the next thing.
Yes, it's about falling in love with the process and not
(01:04:38):
obsessing on the destination. Oh, that is a quotable quote
right there. And doesn't it loop us back to
where we started, which is life by design?
Yeah. This has been such a beautiful
conversation. Thank you so much for sharing
your research with us today. Your exploration into what are
(01:05:02):
all of the facets, the beautifulelements of ADHD and and what
can we learn from one another. The beautiful research that you
have done will be linked down inthe show notes.
So please, if you have listened and you have joined us today, go
check out the full research paper.
Take this in your own life and begin to apply it.
(01:05:24):
How are you going to step into that?
You know, those first elements of life design.
Where are some transitions in your life that you can begin to
look at them and put those things into?
You know the modes that you need, group them together.
You know, what is your time looking like?
How are you utilizing that time and where's your juice?
(01:05:45):
I think this has just been a glorious conversation.
What is one thing that you wouldlike to leave our audience with
today around your research? Grace.
Giving yourself grace. No one else is going to do it
(01:06:06):
for you. No, they won't.
Oh, so beautiful. Thank you.
Alexi Hetzel, we will have all of your links down on the show
notes so people can reach out, connect with you.
You know, if if Alexi has spokento you today, if she has really
sparked some some wonderful things in your brain, reach out
and have a conversation with her.
(01:06:27):
Thank you so much for being here.
We'll see you next time. Thank you.
Thanks for being here. It's been quiet.
All right, let's turn the tide. Stop shelf guests dropping
wisdom bombs. Join us next week where the
energy's strong Beyond crying burnout.
(01:06:49):
We're breaking free podcast pumping full of energy tips and
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You'll feel alive. Energy mastery.
Come along for the ride behind Beyond Crime Burnout.
We're on the rise. Join us as we form our top shelf
(01:07:14):
guests. I need to energy throughout our
past.
Well, welcome to the show, Alexia.
I'm so excited that you were here today and we are talking
not only about your research, but around all of the things
that you have learned and what has worked for you, what you
have found has worked for your clients for high achieving ADHD
years. It's social Saturdays.
The vibe feels right. Carol Jean's got the Mike.
(00:22):
Sparking light. We're building bridges, hearts
open wide, sharing stories wherethe real reside.
Artistic women creating the space, community, love.
It's a warm embrace. Connection's the key to
breakthrough the haze. Together we shine in a world we
(00:43):
amaze. Social Saturday is living loud,
breaking through the silence, proud with laughter and love.
We're all alive, being ourselvesin the truest.
We are wild and free. I'm so happy to be here.
(01:03):
Thank you so much for the invitation.
I am so glad to be joining you all the way from Luxembourg.
I know, right? That's one of the best things
that I have really enjoyed so much over the last few years,
especially hosting the show, is that I get to connect with
people from all over it's. Lovely.
(01:24):
I get to bring in, yeah, different time zones, but like
different cultural experiences, you know, different, different
backgrounds. And this is this is what's so
beautiful about the world that we live in today.
So I always love to start the show off because, you know, we
have this beautiful new format that we're in this year, in
2025. And I'm so excited to have you
(01:46):
as part of this, this new inaugural step into what beyond
chronic burnout is. And that is we always like to
start talking with our guest first with like, what is burnout
to you? What is that meant to you in
your life? Wow, burnout is something that I
have definitely experienced. It also, interestingly, is what
(02:10):
led to my ADHD diagnosis. So yes, I think that I probably
have experienced it many more times than I even know.
But my experience of it has beenthis feeling of being cramped up
(02:32):
by all the contortions that I was imposing on myself and my
brain and even my spirit, especially in the workplace.
So it wasn't so much about too much to do.
It was about I can't be me. I cannot be me.
(02:53):
And that takes a toll. It takes a toll to mask.
It takes a toll to feel lonely in your way of thinking and
approaching life. And So what burnout to me is, is
those days where, you know, evengoing out to get my mail seemed
impossible because I was simply devastated and physically
(03:16):
exhausted from, you know, a sequence of events or months
basically masking and not being able to be myself.
What I love is, is that so much of the work that you you do
professionally has just been this beautiful extension of that
(03:38):
experience. And it's like, well, how do I
fix it? And I think that's where my
research came from. It's like, I'm suffering, I'm
struggling. How do I?
Fix this. Yes, exactly.
Yes, that's exactly what what happened to me.
It was it. It was basically OK.
How do I solve this and how do Ihelp people not get into that
loop? Yeah, very much.
(04:00):
Oh my gosh, yes. And you have a beautiful
research paper talking about thepositive deviance that strengths
based coaching strategies with life design, right?
I love that life design. Oh my gosh, that's so beautiful.
And the strengths based approachis something that I within the
(04:22):
unveiling method is a big part of sort of the unmasking that
unveiling process. Because I think for so many of
us, we hear the world say, well,you're really good at this, but
it may not be what lights us up.We might be good at it, but we
may not enjoy it. And I think the strengths.
Is. Finding what we're naturally
(04:43):
good at, but also the intersection of what lights us
up. What do we love?
So Alexia, dive in and tell us about your research.
First of all, like what? What prompted your hypothesis
and and how did this this particular research begin?
(05:04):
Wow, OK, so it's very interesting the way it began
because I initially wanted to work on something completely
different to do with with ADHD women looking at the hormones,
dopamine axis and and then I thought for sure there is
(05:25):
someone already doing this. And in the meantime, actually,
it, it's been done so good. But then I thought, you know, I
just sort of took a step back and looked at my four years of
four and a bit years now of practice as an ADHD coach.
And I thought, OK, what is it that I can talk about?
(05:46):
That's part of my work. I can that I can talk about for
hours with any friend who will listen and we all thankfully
have those friends that will listen.
Yes, yes, we very, very good at the nodding along and everything
and yes and thank goodness for them.
So I realized that what I love is talking about how wonderfully
(06:14):
creative and resilient a lot of ADHD folks are.
And so I thought, well, OK, but I want to know amongst those who
go through life with ADHD and consider themselves happy high
(06:36):
achievers, I thought, OK, those brilliant minds that I coach and
that I love, how do they do it? I just thought, where is the
practical evidence of how they live their life?
There's a little bit of stuff out there about people with ADHD
(07:00):
being great entrepreneurs and people with ADHD being very
creative. But I thought, well, I, what I
really want to know is what theyeat, what's, what, what exercise
they do, how they sleep, what their, what their homes look
like, what everything about them, what, how they have
(07:23):
designed their life. And so that's, that's what
sparked it. I thought I I would.
I basically wanted to create thepaper that I would have liked to
read. The the the goodness, the juice,
as my friend Kara says, the juice in this, and I love that
you use the term your juice to we're going to get to that a
(07:46):
little bit. You guys stick around.
It's so beautiful because I think one of the things in late
identification that I've noticed, be it if you're late
identified autistic ADHD, you know, any variation within our,
our neurodivergent neurotype is we have all created these
(08:07):
success enablers in our life, these support structures that
we're not consciously or with intention aware that it is
supporting a place that maybe was a challenge along the way.
And it, what's so interesting isin my research, this is, this is
what I love so much about our ADHD life.
(08:28):
My ADHD research partner, DoctorAli Arena and I, one of the
questions we wanted to answer, have answered, 'cause we know
what it is in our life and we were looking to like how do we
decrease our own shame and and guilt around this?
We wanted to know how do you organize?
We wanted to know is a pile partof your organizational system in
some way? 100% of respondents said a pile
(08:53):
in some form or fashion is part of their organizational system.
Excellent. So when you were talking about
just what does your home environment look like, I'm like,
well, if it's ADHD folks, they got a pile somewhere.
Even if it's in a basket behind closed doors, in a drawer for
(09:14):
sure. Oh my gosh.
So as you started to dive into looking for the evidence of what
are you doing? How are you being to produce the
person that you are today? What started to come up?
What elements? Came up in your research.
(09:38):
So a ton came out and to be honest, I asked it was a very
long questionnaire, 50 questionsand and I I even had one
respondent that said in one of the answers, you know, I'm
having difficulty with this verylong survey, ha, ha, ha.
So I there was, there was reallya ton.
(09:59):
So it will be it would be difficult to go into details,
but I did get some things that Ithought were I will, I will tell
you about the highlights and thealso the surprises.
One of the questions was what have you tried, you know, in
terms of medication, therapy, anything that is sort of medical
(10:22):
or paramedical? That was one of the questions.
And one respondent had at some point tried 10 different medical
or paramedical interventions at the same time.
And I thought, wow, yes, yes. And so that is that that was the
(10:44):
first thing to me. I was like, I was thinking, Oh
my goodness, just managing thosestreams for an ADHD or would
have been just exhausting, right?
So that was quite interesting, the fact that almost all the
respondents had tried some form of medicated or therapeutic
help. And so most of them had tried at
(11:07):
least one. But yes, there was definitely a
mix. They were moving from one to
another. So you're really seeing, you're
you, you could really see basically people who are trying
to find their sweet spot in between all those possibilities
and really testing a lot. So that was one interesting
(11:28):
thing. Another thing that really that
made me laugh really because I asked, I wanted to know what
tips people could share that they use to get good sleep.
Oh, I love this one, 'cause you know, that's the first thing to
go offline and burnout, it's thelast thing to come back.
Right. And so I, I expected maybe you
(11:50):
know this, you know, the melatonin and sleep routine kind
of like standard answers. And I had to actually publish
this as part of the research in one of the appendices because
the the total list is of 39 tips, right?
It was very yes, yes. I thought, Oh my goodness.
(12:14):
Some one of the respondents, I think had a list of nine things
that they considered to be part of their, of them getting good
sleep, whether it's a ritual, whether it's something they
wear. What was also interesting in
the, the thing about sleep was that when I, when I went to dig
(12:36):
a little bit further, a, a part of the whether it's whether it's
medication or whether it's a ritual or some of this stuff was
already sort of scientifically being looked at, right?
So there was some evidence there, but for some of them
(12:58):
there really was none. And what I loved about this is
that, you know, those those respondents, they probably know
that wearing a silk bonnet is not going, is not actually going
to help you get good sleep. But they didn't care.
They put it in there. Why?
Because it is. Somebody is peeking in my
bedroom. Excuse me, somebody's peeking.
(13:21):
In my bedroom. Do they know I have a purple
silk bonnet in there? No, but.
You know, I thought, and I thought it was great that they
would list it as what helps themget good sleep because we're not
even that took things to a wholeother level for me because it
was like, OK, so we're not just talking about science based
(13:41):
stuff. We're talking about what works
for them, what did, what is partof their ritual, what are the
things that they need to check off to feel and be in the
emotional, physiological state, to be ready for bed.
And that was I. I just, I found that beautiful.
(14:02):
This is so good it's glorious. Yes, I thought it was a really
amazing yes. That alone is its whole separate
study, by the way. I know I'm doing that one.
Next no idea the number of studies that could follow from
this one. I I could be busy for the rest
of my life with this, so I really really enjoyed this.
What I also thought was interesting was the, so this is
(14:28):
really what this is the biggest highlight for me.
Yes, there were a lot of things having been tried in, in terms
of therapeutic help, terms of coaching, terms of sleep,
routine, exercise, food. Actually, not so much what, but
what, what, what stood out for, for, for eating habits was that
(14:52):
people were paying attention to what they were eating.
So whether they were actually preferring certain foods or, or
or others, the the what, what stood out is that they were
fully conscious of the link between their well-being and the
food. But what really really stood
out, and what really helped me confirm my sense when I started
(15:17):
this study, was self acceptance.Oh wow, that.
Is huge. So many of the respondents in
their concluding remarks basically said the moment I
(15:37):
stopped feeling the need to fit in or the moment I stopped
beating myself up, the moment I realized that, you know, things
are just as they are, I'm OK with who I am.
That is when they felt they werein control.
(15:57):
That is also how they that's also where they felt they were
then making more informed decisions about the kind of care
they may need. And so a lot of quite a few of
the respondents explained that, you know, pills can help and
exercise can help, but a, it is actually not just one of those
(16:22):
things. It's going to be a whole puzzle
that you create that you carve the pieces off because every
individual is different and B and I shouldn't start sentences
like this is an ADD or because Isometimes have trouble
remembering what B is. But but but it's not just me.
(16:42):
No, my first and D. Yes, I used to say I have three
things to say about this and I don't do that anymore.
And now I've lost B Wait and where was I?
I don't know. The holistic puzzle.
Yes, the holistic puzzle, sorry.So you might have to to edit
(17:06):
this. Just give me a moment.
Oh, yes. OK, So, A, it's going to be an
entire puzzle, all those pieces that you put together and B, you
are, you need to learn exactly who you are, what your process
(17:29):
is, what, what things you can put in place in your everyday
life, what fits you, what is a good fit for you.
And that will mean that you can be more selective or more
informed about do you need medication, when, for what kind
(17:49):
of tasks, etcetera. So that was really it was the
basic pills don't teach skills you know and and even those who
take medication still now and say that it helps did say this
will not do the job alone. You have to embrace who you are,
(18:11):
embrace your brain, tame it and instead of I think one
responded, put it this way, whenyou are just resorting to
exterior help, exterior leverage, you are taming a tiger
(18:31):
when you know yourself you are the tiger.
I can't hear you anymore, by theway.
No, I, I'm just nodding and I'm thinking and I'm just, I'm, I'm
downloading and allowing that tojust sit.
(18:59):
All of those, everything that you have talked about from your
research resonates with me so directly.
So of the highlights, what was the biggest surprise to you in
the study data? I think the biggest surprise for
(19:21):
me was that, and this is actually something that I did
not mention directly in the paper, but that wasn't the data
and it was the average age at which those people were
diagnosed with ADHD, because it was 34, I believe, or 30.
(19:41):
So it's mid, we're in mid 30s. Very few of them were diagnosed
in in childhood or teenage years.
I thought that was really interesting.
And that's probably also something that could turn into
another piece of research. But I found it interesting that
(20:05):
a sample of people who self identify as high achievers with
ADHD would be mostly diagnosed in adulthood.
How many women versus men did you have respond?
It was a pretty I would I I would have to double check
again, but I know that it was pretty balanced.
It was almost 5050. Oh, that's interesting.
(20:27):
And that was not even done on purpose.
I'm just just got really lucky. Right.
I love how those things come together.
But from all but from all of theresearch, from from the
responses that you gained as youbegan to put all these pieces
together, how does this come into life design and define for
us what is life? Design, Alexia.
(20:51):
Well, life design is, is puttinga designer lens on how you piece
together the different streams in your life.
And I don't know if you're familiar with design thinking
that's a little bit more know well known, right.
This idea that you are human centred.
(21:13):
You're centred on your user or the person you're trying to help
or service. Yeah, universal design.
Yes, yes. And so putting yourself in that
person's shoes is where you start in order to create a
product. And when you apply design
thinking to your life, you are the user and you are trying to
(21:37):
understand what it is that you need no one else, not your
neighbor, not your wife, you right.
And so it's, it's basically the,the application of design
thinking to life. And it introduced as something
(21:59):
that I think can really, really help ADHD folks because ADHD
folks can sometimes get, well, no, I was actually toning that
down. But our very binary, right?
We're sort of all or nothing. We have this black and white
thinking a lot of the time. And so we're either in a place
(22:21):
where we have a lots of routinesin place and then we exhaust
ourselves and all the routines fall out the window and for
maybe a few weeks we're sort of without guard rails and things
like this. So it's sort of all or nothing.
And with life design, that comesfrom design thinking, you are
allowing yourself, you're givingyourself permission to use
(22:44):
prototypes and to iterate and toreally use a sort of constant
feedback loop to keep that momentum.
So let's say you are trying to get to sleep earlier.
OK, you can, you can try one method without getting into the
(23:04):
nitty gritty because this is another ADHD thing.
People will start looking for the best app or the perfect
pillow or the, you know, there. There's going to be this and
then there's going to be this decision paralysis of Oh my
goodness, I have 18 potential potential pillows.
How do I do this? Maybe I need to create a
spreadsheet where it's to do like a compare comparison.
(23:26):
Oh, what will be the variables, etcetera.
We can go down those rabbit holes and just really, really
tire ourselves out just like that without even getting to do
the thing that we want to try. So.
If you just got called out, it'sOK, we understand.
Yes, yes, as you just spoke directly to so many of us.
(23:49):
If you think like a designer, that means you are focused on
the function, the functionality,You know, what is the function
of what we are trying to do here?
OK, it is to get better sleep. OK, So what would be the MVP?
(24:09):
That's another design thinking term, MVP, minimum viable
product. What can be the bare minimum
version of your new habit that you can test out?
So that's sort of something thatI think fits especially ADHD
brains because you are giving yourself permission to keep it
(24:34):
simple. You are not losing focus on why
you're doing it and going into rabbit holes of Amazon
comparison products. And you are, you know,
collecting data about yourself and then moving on to the next
stage of that product design or habit design or routine design
(24:58):
or anything you want. So Alexia, part of what I've
found in the work that I've doneis that the self trust piece
plays a part in this. So much for a lot of us, you
know, and when we have executivefunction challenges or there's a
(25:21):
cognitive load or decision fatigue that comes in, there's a
place where we come to where I just don't trust.
Like if I miss doing this one thing that it throws me off and
then the next day I'm not doing it.
And the next thing I know, it's a month later and I'm not doing
the thing that helps me because it got off track somewhere
around here. And it becomes this place of I
(25:44):
can't trust myself if I don't doit because then if I'm not doing
it. So then we almost become
obsessive about it because we don't trust that.
Well, if it falls off, I'm stillgoing to be OK and I can
reassess and bring back in what I need.
Or it might be the thing that allows me to say, you know,
actually that doesn't work as well as I thought it was
(26:07):
working. Yes, yes, that I think that
there's also that's also where life design thinking can be
quite useful because I, I also like sometimes to invite my
clients to just be OK with messing up and to also pick
(26:31):
their battles right. And what I mean by this is that
so in, in design thinking or life design, you, you can also
make a choice, right, to determine what are, what can be
called gravity problems, the things about you or about your
(26:51):
circumstances that will not change like gravity or you
having a terrible memory and really needing to write
everything down, right? I mean, of course there are some
things you can do to jug your help jug your memory and stuff.
But what I mean is that you, you're not going to
fundamentally change some of thequirks about you.
(27:12):
And so what's also useful is to this is to have this moment in
your life or several moments in your life where you stop and you
think, OK, is this forgetfulness, for example,
something I'm really going to continue to to despise about
(27:35):
myself? Am I going to continue taking
energy, just telling myself how silly it is that I need all
those reminders that, you know, put it in a black box, consider
it a gravity problem, and you know, that's OK.
Then there are the problems thatyou can actually manage or solve
(27:59):
or design around. So already having that
distinction, you know of what you can control, what you can't
control, and at least keeping focused on what you can control
and better about yourself. I think that's one really
important piece as well, is the,you know, some things are not
(28:20):
going to change and that's OK, right?
That's OK. I mean, the latest example I
have from myself is I, I try, I have this flagging system where
if I order something and I'm waiting for the parcel, I flag
it in my e-mail. And sometimes I guess I forget
to flag one. And recently I had this slip in
(28:42):
my letterbox saying come pick upthis parcel at the post office,
we missed you when you were not home, etcetera.
And I had no idea what this order was.
And then I it started stressing me out because the deadline to
pick it up was approaching. I was very busy and, and it was
really cold outside. And I was like, oh, today's the
(29:04):
last day and I'm feeling a bit ill.
And I was really giving myself. I was just really stressing
myself out. And then I thought, you don't
even remember what's in the parcel.
And so I just thought, if I don't remember what it is, I
probably don't need it right now.
It's probably not crucial. So I just threw the slip away.
(29:28):
That is bold. That is bold I.
Know but it felt so I love it liberating.
I love it. I was like, I mean you.
Know what? It's OK.
Power. Right exactly, I thought and I
even posted something on my Instagram about this.
I thought you know what this thing I'm going to let it go.
I am not going to ruin my day over this.
(29:50):
And sure enough, 2 weeks later Ihad a refund from some company
about some, you know gadget. I had ordered the.
Midnight order some Instagram order.
Right, they would exactly. You know what I do so and so you
know, the being OK with those things that don't have huge
(30:13):
consequences is so liberating. Oh my gosh, I just I'm just
cheering hearing you, you doing it.
It is that is making me feel so good.
So Alexi, I know you have some counter intuitive insight around
life design. Give us, give us the goodness on
this one. Yes.
(30:33):
So I, I don't know how how how popular this will be with with
our listeners, but I actually I've.
Been that makes me want it even more.
OK, OK, good. So I, I like to, I, OK, so I
like to think that as someone with ADHDI have an emotional
(30:58):
brain, I need to feel good and excited and at peace, etcetera,
about a number of things. Basically, there are a number of
things that need to be aligned that need to be there for me to
even get close to the mind spacewhere I can get things done.
And sometimes I spend so much time beating myself up about all
(31:25):
the things that I need to be doing that of course I'm not
doing them. So typical sort of freeze and
procrastination. But then I also realized that
I've been spending so much time thinking about not doing things
that I've also neglected tidying, tidying up or cleaning
around in my apartment or my hair or my nails or anything
(31:47):
like this, right? And so I think, OK, right now I
feel like I'm getting out of into a spiral.
What can I do that will make me feel like I've got it together?
And that's not necessarily actually getting the stuff done
and. That that is such a powerful
(32:09):
question. Say that again.
What helps me feel like I've gotit together?
Because that could just be anything for anybody, but it's
what's going to make you feel. Yes, yes.
You've got it together. Yes.
Like for me, sometimes the answer to that question is I get
(32:31):
dressed and I do my hair and makeup and then everything else
feels like I got. If I got, if I look like I got
it together, then I feel. Like, I got it, you got it, you
got it. It's that in rude cognition kind
of thing, yes. And for some people, it will be,
you know, a pile of laundry that's they just can't get to
work if it's not done it. They feel like there's just that
(32:53):
the excess chaos that is going to create some sort of that's
going to take up bandwidth, right?
And also you want to feel like, yes, you, I've, at least I've
got this right, right. So sometimes it means that
you're getting this stuff done later.
So technically you're like eating frogs for dessert, right?
(33:14):
Not for breakfast. So it sounds kind of
counterintuitive, but I, I, it really, really works for me.
And I'm sometimes I like to think of, OK, so I love
fireplaces. I don't have a fireplace in my
home. What I do, especially now that
we're sort of building up towards the, the winter
holidays, I like to, to watch onNetflix the fake fireplace right
(33:38):
there. I love.
That thing because we don't havea fun.
Of it I love I love fire cracking sound and and you know.
I even bought one of those candles that has the wood Wick
that crack. Yes, they have.
They have several editions. I mean, it's, it's amazing.
So I love those fake fireplace videos.
And so many of my friends have joked that, you know, when it's
(34:00):
on, they come over, they say, but I can almost feel the
warmth, you know? And that is exactly what I'm
referring to when I say that some things may seem like
counterintuitive, but no, if youare putting yourself in some
sort of state mindset or look orwhatever that makes you feel
(34:22):
like you've got things together,then that may just be something
that will get you to get you back on track.
We're taking a quick pause in the show so that I can share a
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Then we'll get back to the fabulous conversation with my
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this Sunday. Now back to the conversation.
I love that I'm thinking about this in terms of the catalyst or
the linchpin. Yeah, yeah, as we move.
Oh, this is so good. OK.
So what is the most important thing for somebody to know about
(36:18):
life design from this perspective and approach?
I think probably, and this also came up in the research again,
the fact that it's not going to be one thing.
It's not going to be 1 app, it'snot going to be one book.
(36:40):
It's not going to be 1 trick. It's going to be all of it.
Having your water on your on your desk to make sure you stay
hydrated or all the it's going to be all those things.
It's for me, it's even temperature, you know, if it's
too warm, I don't get work done.I need to be just cool enough so
that my extremities are cool. And so I think that with that
(37:07):
life design gives you this flexibility also to just jump
from one thing to the other and not to just be on one stream at
the time. You can.
It's playful, it should be fun. See right there #5 on my list
for my research of the things that impact our optimum steady
(37:30):
state. It is play, joy and laughter.
Oh yeah, for. Sure, and it's the number one
thing people say they don't haveenough of in their.
Life fun. Play joy and laughter.
Oh, OK. Play joy and laughter.
Yeah, fun. People say I don't have enough.
Play joy, laughter. Fun, right?
(37:51):
And it's the number five thing that impacts our our energy and
well-being. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, Life design should be playful.
You should be an like, you should want to be an artist
crafting your life. I.
To me, like the fun, the play inthat is like I always envision
I'm putting my lab coat on and I'm just getting compassionately
(38:13):
curious and I'm just going to play.
I'm going to try this thing and see how I feel or how it works
for me. And I'm not going to get judgy
around the outcome or feel like I have to force an outcome.
I'm just going to, I'm just going to observe in for a little
bit. But I love that that one of the
things that you're talking abouthere, we're talking about life
(38:34):
design is you're also talking about that autonomy, that agency
control, that personal power that we have within ourselves to
craft to lead our life. Yes, one of the biggest
disruptors to that wonderful ideology here around the life
(38:54):
design is our next topic, transactions.
Now as an ADHD, uh, who I was diagnosed as ADHD in my mid 20s.
I wasn't diagnosed with being autistic till I was almost 40,
but one of the things I learned and it didn't click, but I
didn't really realize it to the degree that I did a few years
(39:17):
ago was that I had challenges with transitioning.
And I the biggest transition challenge for me, and it still
is today to a certain degree, iswhen I leave my home and I drive
myself into town 30 minutes awayto the grocery store.
And then I have to get out of the car and go in the grocery
store. And then when I come out of the
(39:38):
grocery store in back into my car and then to drive, well, the
parking lot is this transition zone.
It's like this black hole vortex.
I will drive to the grocery store and then I will sit in my
car anywhere from 5 to 2030 minutes playing on my phone to
(39:59):
like decompress from driving so that I could gear myself up
mentally and physically to then go into the grocery store and
then navigate all the executive functioning it takes to grocery
shop. And then once I've done that, I
come to the car and I'm exhausted and and I get on my
phone for 10 to 20. To 30 minutes with my husband
going, are you OK texting me in the meantime?
(40:22):
I was like, yes, I'll be home ina little bit.
But these transition times for ADHD years, that awareness alone
has been huge for me. But also like being kind of
compassionate to myself and recognizing I need it.
I'm not going from this to this to this.
I've got to have some transitiontime between certain activities,
(40:43):
so talk to us about your research and what you've learned
around transitions for us ADHD years.
Well, from research and from alllike many of my coaching
clients. So this is a mixture.
You're like, do you have transition challenges too?
(41:03):
Yes, but I've got I've, I'm very, very happy to report that
I have become better and better at managing them.
So first, what I want to say about transitions is here we're,
we're a crowd of people. We know, we know what that
means, right? We know what is a transitioning
transition challenge. But actually for people who are
(41:27):
new to the, to their ADHD diagnosis or just the, the theme
of ADHD, I find that it's not addressed enough.
The, the, the challenge with transitions is often very much
overlooked. But when you think about it in
today's world with all the different communication streams,
(41:47):
the tablets, the phone, the e-mail, the Insta, and I'm
calling you because I came to see you to ask if you got my
e-mail, that it's like, wow, OK,you know, it, it's, it's, it's
actually, it's actually a very important topic.
So what I found in the research is that people didn't
necessarily call, they didn't necessarily use the word
(42:09):
transitions, but they did explain that they're when when
they when I was asking about work and productivity and work
life balance, people did indicate that they're using time
blocking, that they're you, thatthey're that they're trying to
(42:32):
merge together tasks or modes that that go together.
So I'm going to explain this a little bit because this is
sounding very abstract probably for now.
But basically being when you arewriting, for example, writing a
(42:52):
paper or writing a poem, or you know, you're, you're, you're
crafting text, you're creating thought you are in a very
specific mode or mindset. And then especially if you have
ADHD, someone comes and interrupts you and asks you a
(43:12):
question about when did you wantto take off again for your
summer holiday? And it's like you got this
freeze, like, you know, I, one of my clients described it as
this sudden interruption and transition feels like I'm having
(43:33):
to let one's brain software shutdown, cool off, and then I need
to turn on another software and wait for it to warm up until I
am fully with that person. And then if I need to go back to
whatever I was doing before my other mode, my other software,
(43:56):
it's going to take that same effort again.
And I coach a lot of entrepreneurs and I know that
when people are solopreneurs especially, they are looking for
funding, they are marketing themselves, they are having
calls. Sometimes they're recruiting
(44:17):
people if they don't want to be sore preneurs anymore.
They are creating their content,they're doing the the core job.
They're they're basically, they have so many streams happening.
And a lot of my client entrepreneurs were jumping from
a recruitment call to a client call to a funding meeting to A
(44:40):
and it was and I thought, wait, of course it takes you about 10
minutes to land in the meeting. You are calling upon a
completely different mode in you.
So why don't you try to group them?
It's of course it depends on what your work is and how much
(45:01):
freedom you have. But as much as possible, I think
transitions should be minimized because if you are constantly
going from e-mail writing to talking to a colleague, to
writing a paper, to going to lunch with another colleague, to
all these different modes. And by the way, modes are very
(45:24):
personal. Some people think, well, you
mean maybe like a client or a file.
And I'm like, well, if that's the way you divide it, then yes.
But I'm more thinking, so they're saying, oh, maybe tasks.
Well, yeah, tasks is closer, butit's really about what mindspace
(45:47):
are you good for right now? You know what?
That is so good. What mindspace are you good for
right now? Yes.
That's a quality question. Yes, I think so too.
I think it's very important to, I mean, of course you don't, you
can't always do it. But I think that as much as
(46:08):
possible, try to make sure that if you are in creative mode, you
are securing a certain amount oftime to be in that creative
mode. And if you're, I have a people
mode, right, I, and, and so there will be days on my
calendar where I know that I will refuse to talk to anyone.
(46:33):
I'm just not in that mode. I, I know myself now I schedule
it. I had an MVP, you know, I tried
time blocking in certain ways and I tested and failed and
tried again. And, you know, now I've got a
good thing going. But those transitions can lead
you to burnout. There's multiple transmissions
(46:56):
where there's so many of them that you don't have flow within
the chunks of your modality. Yes, yes.
Yes, and that is what is the most liberating too.
It's like to recognize it. To recognize it and to, you
know, there's so many people in general, but especially with
ADHD, they say I'm so tired and I feel so busy, but I'm not
(47:19):
getting my stuff done. Well, that's because you're
always switching, you know, and there's a lot of quality time or
quality that or added value that's being lost there in those
transitions as well, right? So yes, transitions, noticing
what your modes are, naming them, not naming them according
(47:42):
to your coach or any book or your modes, giving them your
names, and then managing those transitions from one mood to
another with a lot more intent can really, really help prevent
burnout. Oh, most definitely.
You know, I think about it like a palate cleanser is how I
(48:04):
approach transitions from the sense that, you know, if, if I'm
if I have my, you know, granola for breakfast kind of mode,
right. And then in between.
So I'm going to have some water,some some palate cleansing
refreshment before I move into my salad part of my day right
(48:25):
where I've got like all of my vegetables and stuff.
But I, I, I think about those transitions with intention now
of like I'm grouping my, my mode, all the tasks within that
mode together. They have this flow because the
more I'm switching, the more energy I'm using, the more fuel
(48:46):
I'm burning to maintain shiftingbetween.
And it's like riding four horsesat one time.
You don't do it well, and you risk falling a whole lot more
than. If you did, remember that one,
yes, even 2. Right.
(49:06):
I mean, I think about the acrobats, you know, in the
circus riding, riding around on multiple horses.
And I'm just like, oh, good for you.
But you don't do it all day longeither.
They only do it for that one performance.
And I think that's what we forget.
And as we talk about transition,I think the biggest chunk, the
most important element here is the tab, you know, is ADHD
(49:30):
years. Time blindness was something
number one I didn't recognize was what I was experiencing.
And then when I learned about time blindness and I started to
put into context how I experienced time, when it feels
like for me, the passage of time.
And it was mind blowing but it also changed my life when I
(49:51):
learned how to understand my experience of time.
Talk to us about the research and and what time means for us
as ADHD years. Wow, I'm pretty sure there will
be as many senses or definitionsof time as there will be ADHD
years. That being said, time was a
(50:17):
keyword in the research, right? It came up all the time and it
was time blindness in its fullest.
OK, so sometimes people, so people were expressing, you
know, if I, I feel like I never have enough time or I am not
(50:39):
seeing time properly, I don't feel my deadlines.
They don't feel real, especiallyif they're far off into the
future. There was feeling behind in
time. Yes, yes.
Was that one that came up a lot?That what that was that was
definitely that definitely came up a lot.
(51:00):
And also this idea of how elastic time is.
Quite a few people mentioned sometimes an hour will go by
like this and sometimes it will feel like death.
OK. And so it with that in mind, I
also saw another word came that came up and it happens to be a
(51:25):
design thinking and therefore life design term as well, which
is sprints, right? And so, yes, sprints.
Some of the sparkly good words that I love I.
Know I know right? And so a lot of people in a lot
of respondents in the research admitted, not that there's any
guilt that should be attached toit, but admitted to thinking in
(51:49):
sprints. And this very much correlates
with what I also see in my clients is in that I encourage
them to embrace if that's what works for them.
And So what I am thinking is that part of life design which
could help those respondents andanyone with ADHD is to stop
(52:16):
feeling boxed in by a neuronormative calendar.
You know when I I mean those planners.
Can we get everybody on board for that?
Planners. Planners are daily horizontally
(52:37):
or the end and I just what if, what if I'm not feeling like my
current horizon that I need to focus on is a week or a day or a
month? What if I feel that I'm on a
four week Sprint, you know, and how can I visualize this for
myself? And, and I do this with a lot of
(52:59):
my clients and it's something I use for myself all the time if I
feel, and it doesn't have to be exact, it doesn't have to be an
exact measure. This is why unlearning calendars
can be a really liberating thing.
If you feel like your next Sprint is the next six weeks,
put them on an axis, six week axis and look at how many days
(53:22):
you have between now and that and what feels like that
deadline or inflection point or point of horizon.
You can zoom in and out as much as you want.
Your Sprint can be 6 days, it can be six weeks, it can be
whatever you want, but you can visualize that Sprint and that
(53:43):
Sprint only. You're creating your blinders, I
guess, in a way, and. I'm, I really like that.
I, I ascribe to sort of what Robin Sharma teaches in these
cycles, right? And a lot of other people teach
about, you know, these 90 minutecycles and, and recharging.
(54:05):
And so I played around with thatand I found, well, I do these
sprints that align with my peak performance time.
So my energy rhythm and I playedaround with how many of these do
I comfortably do in a day and what modes do I fit into each
one of those sprints? And that for me has been life
(54:27):
changing. But one of the things that I
love that you talk about when wetalk about time is how and as
sort of as we move into the nextpart of like your juice part.
But it's the comparison trap that we fall into when that is
something that is our optimum state of operation.
(54:49):
And we've learned, OK, these aremy sprints, these are my cycles,
these are my transition. This is how I, you know, my life
by design. But now I've got all these
people telling me that's not howwe do it around here.
It's. True.
It's true. That's.
Weird. Why would you do that?
(55:10):
Why wouldn't you just do it likethis, like everybody else?
Does and you know what? Both things, Both modes, can
coexist. You can have your own Sprint
visualization, your own horizon and still exist.
And then you heard of the world.It works.
(55:30):
I think sometimes it is interesting when I have had sort
of granular conversations with people on different neurotypes,
you know, when we talk about ourour work styles and our learning
styles and I'll describe mine, I'll hear them describe theirs.
And it's really interesting, youknow, as you hear how other
people work with them. And I was like, isn't it
(55:51):
interesting because we've both designed what best supports our
performance, our peak performance and what is a
success enabler for us, which doesn't mean that this once as
fits all approach is going to work.
Because if you had to do it the way I do it, you would not be
(56:12):
performing at your best and feelyour best.
And if you did it, you know I did it like you, I certainly
would. I've tried it would not feel it
my best. So how do we move into getting
it to that place of like your? Juice.
OK, OK, well, so the juice, the juice has something.
(56:36):
It's interesting because what came up in the research is that
people were very, very self aware and very, very conscious
of what they are good at and what they enjoy versus what they
enjoy less and what they maybe need to take themselves by the
(56:58):
hand a little bit more for. And so especially around work,
one of the one of the research questions or one of the survey
questions was what do you like most about your job or what do
you like most about work and what do you hate most about your
work? And it was really interesting
(57:19):
because just to say that the professional landscape behind
the respondents was very, very diverse.
We had some, I had some like researchers, journalists,
auditors, public servants, I mean the the full again, very
(57:39):
lucky, a very, very diverse set of respondents.
But what was really interesting was just to notice that none of
them loved all of the tasks thattheir job entailed.
None of them they. Need to know with anyone
anywhere 100% loves everything they do.
(58:02):
But that's also something that Ithink, I mean, I don't, I, I, I,
I don't recommend getting into ajob and just sucking it up and
just, you know, doing it becauseyou have to.
But with that knowledge in mind of, you know, oh, some people
were saying I'm very, very good at the ideation or at convincing
(58:24):
people or getting them on board or, and then, oh, but I don't
really like the planning or I don't really like, I don't know,
being with clients or, you know,whatever.
With that knowledge in mind, youalso know when you are really
surfing the wave and enjoying yourself and you don't need to
(58:45):
put anything in place really to get to that flow there.
Then you know that the parts that are less fun, that is where
you need to call in the big guns.
So anything else that can make it more fun.
There's a task that you don't like doing, Go and do it in your
(59:06):
favorite coffee shop. Treat yourself to your favorite
matcha latte or whatever. While you're doing the task that
you hate, like change something else about it.
Use a proxy that's going to makethat part that you like less,
less painful. And so that's one thing that
(59:26):
really, really came up in the inthe study is that no one liked
all aspects of their job. And people were very, very aware
of which parts they enjoyed less.
It was not even necessarily thatthey were bad at them, they just
didn't like them, right. And so they did put in place
(59:47):
mechanisms to help, to help walkthemselves through those least
favorite tasks. And another thing about the Jews
that I want to say is that as part of the big lesson of that
research for me, which is the self acceptance piece and the
(01:00:10):
giving yourself grace, peace, the word grace came up a lot and
quite a few people mentioned that.
They're OK with who they are, and they're also OK with not
finishing everything that they start.
And I liked that because, well, it made me feel better,
(01:00:33):
obviously. Yes, yes.
OK, yes. Thank you.
Thank you. I felt almost, you know,
validated myself. Really giving me permission.
OK, yes. And it reminded me of someone I
coached once who was particularly, he was an idea
machine and was very good at drawing.
(01:00:55):
And that person was his thing was to draw very great looking
prototypes of ideas, objects, just things he imagined everyday
life objects that would be helpful to people.
(01:01:15):
And he was like, but I never execute on any of them.
I don't patent them. I don't look for investors.
I don't do anything with them. It's almost like, you know, once
I've done the drawing, the fun part is done.
I was like what's wrong with that?
(01:01:37):
Those beliefs that we hold that somehow we're supposed to.
Supposed to. To be successful.
Right. If he took violin for two years
and we gave up, Oh my goodness, like, oh, I gave up again.
It's like, no, you didn't give up.
You you took it up and then you let it go, right.
(01:01:59):
And so that was that was also liberating.
And I remember that that that one client with his drawings,
when he realized that he was actually just getting the juice
that he needed from that, he decided to have an entire wall
of those drawings to get them framed and to have them as a
(01:02:22):
proud decorative item and something that he could show off
to his friends. And he really became OK with the
idea that he never acted on those ideas, that they were just
there. The the juice had been squeezed.
That was the part that got him going.
Who says you have to execute on everything?
(01:02:46):
Yes. That is the happy Wiz pops and
sparkles and all the juicy goodness is we can't just simply
stand knowing that there can be something that it's not quote UN
quote taken over the finish line.
But we have gotten something from the element of whatever
(01:03:08):
we've done in it that has benefited or been of use to.
Us, yes, all to feed that puzzle.
All to feed that puzzle. Because people with ADHD in
particular have those amazing CVS that, OK, may not make a lot
of sense to many people in the normative corporate world, but
(01:03:30):
they have touched so many things.
They have explored so many different areas, concepts,
professions, themes, passions. They are a unique mosaic of all
those things. Yes, I always say, you know,
when someone looks at my CV, they think it's, you know, 10 or
(01:03:54):
12 different people. There's no way this one woman
has, you know, gone from real estate appraisal to law to
healthcare. And you know, there's how does
any of this make sense? But it makes sense because
everything that, and I think that's the other thing that we
miss in the Jews is that sometimes it's just the
(01:04:17):
experience itself. It's not like we have to gain
something from it. Sometimes it's just that we were
in it, and then there's other times that, yes, we were in it,
but there was a part of it, an element of it that we carry with
us that took us to the next thing.
Yes, it's about falling in love with the process and not
(01:04:38):
obsessing on the destination. Oh, that is a quotable quote
right there. And doesn't it loop us back to
where we started, which is life by design?
Yeah. This has been such a beautiful
conversation. Thank you so much for sharing
your research with us today. Your exploration into what are
(01:05:02):
all of the facets, the beautifulelements of ADHD and and what
can we learn from one another. The beautiful research that you
have done will be linked down inthe show notes.
So please, if you have listened and you have joined us today, go
check out the full research paper.
Take this in your own life and begin to apply it.
(01:05:24):
How are you going to step into that?
You know, those first elements of life design.
Where are some transitions in your life that you can begin to
look at them and put those things into?
You know the modes that you need, group them together.
You know, what is your time looking like?
How are you utilizing that time and where's your juice?
(01:05:45):
I think this has just been a glorious conversation.
What is one thing that you wouldlike to leave our audience with
today around your research? Grace.
Giving yourself grace. No one else is going to do it
(01:06:06):
for you. No, they won't.
Oh, so beautiful. Thank you.
Alexi Hetzel, we will have all of your links down on the show
notes so people can reach out, connect with you.
You know, if if Alexi has spokento you today, if she has really
sparked some some wonderful things in your brain, reach out
and have a conversation with her.
(01:06:27):
Thank you so much for being here.
We'll see you next time. Thank you.
Thanks for being here. It's been quiet.
All right, let's turn the tide. Stop shelf guests dropping
wisdom bombs. Join us next week where the
energy's strong Beyond crying burnout.
(01:06:49):
We're breaking free podcast pumping full of energy tips and
tricks to boost your fight fast pace and fun.
You'll feel alive. Energy mastery.
Come along for the ride behind Beyond Crime Burnout.
We're on the rise. Join us as we form our top shelf
(01:07:14):
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