June 1, 2025 • 28 mins
Ever felt like you're constantly juggling everything but never quite catching up? If traditional organising advice hasn't worked for you, this episode might just change everything.
Megs Crawford, professional organizing coach and host of "Organizing an ADHD Brain," joins me to discuss a refreshingly different approach to organisation, especially for those whose brains work differently. As a recovering "clutter human" with ADHD herself, Megs shares how she transitioned from corporate life to helping others find calm in their chaos through gentle, sustainable methods.
We dive deep into why the perfect Pinterest pantries often remain elusive despite our best efforts and how understanding your unique brain wiring changes everything. Rather than fighting against your natural tendencies, Megs and Mel advocate working with them like placing a container exactly where your family naturally drops items instead of battling ingrained habits.
The conversation takes fascinating turns as we explore concepts like "body doubling" (having someone present while you organise), understanding your nervous system's reaction to clutter and breaking free from what Megs calls "doom piles" (Didn't Organise, Only Moved). You'll learn why manifestation and vision-setting form the foundation of lasting organisation and how addressing limiting beliefs often matters more than knowing which containers to buy.
What stands out most is our shared philosophy that organising isn't just about creating picture-perfect spaces, it's about believing you can do things differently. The transformation begins not with perfect systems but with a mindset shift that makes those systems possible.
Whether you have ADHD or simply feel overwhelmed by life's demands, this episode offers practical wisdom for creating order that works with your life, not against it. Connect with Megs through her podcast "Organizing an ADHD Brain" or visit her community at organizinganADHDbrain.com/community to continue your journey toward organised peace.
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Remember, organising is a tool to live the purposeful life beyond it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mel (00:18):
Welcome to Beyond Organized , the podcast that helps you
simplify your life and amplifyyour purpose.
I'm Mel Shenker, life coach,speaker, founder of she's
Organized, but, more importantly, a wife and mum of four little
kids, if you've ever feltoverwhelmed like you're
constantly juggling everythingbut never quite catching up.
This is the place for you.
Here we go beyond just thetidying up and creating systems.
(00:42):
We're talking about real lifestrategies that bring order to
your life, but also we talkabout the things beyond the
organizing, the things thatreally matter, like your
parenting relationships and somuch more.
So grab your coffee and let'sdive in.
Welcome to another episode ofBeyond Organised.
(01:02):
I have the lovely MegsCrawford here with us today.
Megs is a professionalorganizing coach with ADHD and
hosts of Organizing an ADHDBrain.
So a bit of background on her.
So she's a recovering clutterhuman herself.
Megs knows firsthand howoverwhelming it can feel to get
(01:24):
organized when your brain worksdifferently.
After leaving the corporateworld to create a life that felt
more aligned, she now helpswomen with ADHD find calm in the
chaos through one-on-onecoaching and a supportive online
community.
She's married with twoenergetic daughters and believes
lasting change starts withmeeting yourself right where you
are.
Her work blends nervous systemawareness, gentle structure and
(01:46):
a whole lot of compassion,because organizing isn't just
about stuff.
It's about believing you can dothings differently.
I love that Megs, Welcome.
Meg,
Megs (01:56):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
Mel (01:59):
It's so good to have you.
It's so nice to be able to talkand connect with someone that
is in the same space as me.
I think it's so good.
Megs (02:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
Mel (02:10):
And like not one of us can help the whole world, so we need
our community of organizers tosupport one another
coac when I brought it up tiyou know I've got you coming on,
and that they were a little bithesitant because they're like
oh, but you're in the same spaceand you know then, like you're
(02:30):
competing, and I was likecompeting, there's no competing,
I'm not in any kind ofcompetition, I'm running my own
race, like I think, you know,it's just about complimenting
each other and working together,and why can't my audience and
your audience be the sameaudience.
Megs (02:50):
Yeah, totally fine um, we can learn stuff from each other
too, right?
Mel (02:54):
the more we talk and the more we share stories and lived
experiences yeah, that's it, andI'm constantly learning, even
in what I'm doing, and I'm sureyou are too.
We can all keep learning andgrowing, and I think the day we
stop learning is probably theday we should stop doing this,
right?
Yeah, for sure.
Oh well, let's get in.
(03:14):
I've got a few questions foryou, and I'm sure the more you
talk, the more my brain's goingto keep going.
So what inspired you to getinto this space of organizing,
and particularly with the ADHD?
Megs (03:29):
yeah, absolutely so.
I left the corporate world.
I was in leadership and I wasgetting my project management
master's degree, and so therewas a lot of things I wanted to
do, but I felt lost in thecorporate world.
I had been doing it for almostnine years climbing the ladder.
I knew I could go further, butthere was something about me
that needed to leave.
I felt like I was in a reallytoxic position, so I left.
(03:53):
I was working with a careercoach at the time, which I
highly recommend.
Coaches are so amazing becausethey just help you see things
from a new perspective and shehelped me understand some of the
things that I really loved todo.
And one thing I had beenfocused on in my own home was
starting to let go of all of thestuff.
Now I had done like a lot ofselling stuff online and like
(04:15):
you know, cause I had kids andso as soon as they grew out of
something, I'm like well, howcan?
I make this work?
How can I make it intosomething that makes sense for
me?
But I wanted to createPinterest perfect pantries.
I wanted to create the spacesthat were envious of the home
edit, you know, and really condo.
Mel (04:35):
I love those shows.
Megs (04:36):
Oh, my gosh, me too Right and like they're so
aesthetically pleasing andthey're beautiful, the colors,
oh yes, it's amazing pleasingand they're beautiful.
It's amazing and I realizedpretty quickly that, in order to
get there there was a lot ofwork involved and there was a
lot of change involved, andthere was a lot of understanding
(04:57):
your own uniqueness and how youwork in order to get to those
spaces.
So I asked other organizers whenyou go into someone's home, do
you work with them or do youwork for them, Right Like, do
you go into?
The space for them, or do youwork alongside with them?
And they said well, it justdepends, Like we'd let them
decide.
But then sometimes we'll comeback and the space isn't the way
(05:19):
that we put it in the firstplace and I was like, well, yeah
, of course it's not going to bethe way that you put it in the
first place.
Yeah, they have no idea what youdid and now they have to work
in their own brain to figure itout.
So as I started to understandhow I wanted to operate in my
own business and as I started tounderstand my own ADHD brain,
(05:41):
it just so happened that Istarted to work with a lot of
people with ADHD by chance andpeople who also like
self-diagnosed through listeningto my podcast or you know,
they're starting to realize somany of the signs, so many of
the things that show up forthemselves, and so I started to
get really passionate abouthelping people with ADHD learn
how to let go, because I have avery strong emotional connection
(06:04):
to my stuff.
And so when I started to learnhow to let go because I have a
very strong emotional connectionto my stuff, and so when I
started to learn how to let goin a way that made sense for me
I just wanted to help others dothe same, and I wanted others
others to know that just becauseyou've been clutter full your
whole life doesn't mean thatthat's going to be your normal
forever.
So that's a little bit abouthow I broke into this space, but
(06:25):
it's also the podcast likelearning through people who had
ADHD and have ADHD.
Their journeys have helped me aton in discovering my own, so
that I can help people that Ihelp discover how their brain
works.
It's been fascinating.
Mel (06:42):
I love it, I love all of it , and I did listen to some of
your podcasts and it's funnybecause I don't have ADHD but my
eldest son does and since hegot diagnosed I started seeing
signs.
I guess you could say.
But then I think it's justbecause I mean I've got four
kids now.
I think it's just beingoverstimulated and just so much
(07:04):
going on all the time that, okay, it's the season I'm in, it's
not a formal diagnosis, but Ican so relate to the stuff
you're saying, just as anoverstimulated mom, you know,
with so much going on.
So you cater not only to thosethat have been, you know,
diagnosed, it's for all the restof us that are just trying to
(07:25):
get through the day.
So it's great.
I think what you're doing isreally, really good.
Megs (07:31):
Thank you, and like to that point.
I think sometimes we feel likewe need to stop the world and
just get a week to ourselves sothat we can get everything
organized.
And then, once we have thatweek, we're going to do
everything, we're going to getit all organized and then we can
live our life and it'll beeasier.
But that's not the reality Lifenever stops.
Mel (07:48):
No, that's it.
I mean to be honest.
If I had a week off everything,I probably wouldn't be at home
organising my stuff.
Megs (07:57):
Yes, exactly, that is the last thing you would be doing.
Mel (08:00):
Yeah, that's it, and I think it's so important to start
little and create these littleroutines and ways of going about
things and make things work foryou.
I love how you said how you gointo people's homes and like
you're working with them.
You're working with thesepeople with whatever situation
(08:21):
it is, and you know it's notjust for them, it's with them.
And I love that because I'm thekind of person as well that you
know if you end up puttingsomething down in a particular
spot, don't try and change thathabit.
Make that habit work for you.
Like there's a particular spoton the kitchen bench where my
(08:42):
husband and kids and everyoneloves to dump stuff and I don't
particularly like it there, butthat's the spot that it is and
it is in the corner.
So I got a container, that kindof blended in everything dumps
in there and then if we have aparty or something, I literally
just take the container and moveit away and then for the every
(09:03):
day with the rest of the stuff,I'll just pop it back, I go.
You know what I'm going to workwith the family habits instead
of against it, and it just makesmy life so much easier and I'm
all about just making thingssimple easier, and it sounds
like you're on that same trainof thought, so yes, absolutely
yeah, just like working withyourself instead of against.
(09:23):
So how like?
What's your particular processin the way that you go about
things?
Megs (09:30):
So I'm now, I'm now working with women solely online
, um, and men too, becausethat's just the way that it
happens.
Mel (09:37):
They need it too.
Megs (09:38):
Absolutely so.
he way that I start my processis through manifestation and
truly understanding what youwant your space to be, getting a
true vision of what the futureholds, because oftentimes we get
really excited about organizingor doing a project but then we
lose momentum because we don'tknow where it's going.
(09:58):
And taking small and tinyactions toward that bigger
project is something that canhold us back because we don't
see the efforts put in rightaway.
That's why before and afterpictures are so important right,
yes.
I love them, starting withmanifestation and then truly
(10:19):
understanding some of thebeliefs you need to hold on to
in order to get to the otherside.
So part of what holds us back,like I remember my first client
ever working coaching coachingher over the phone, she was
telling me I've never really putso much effort into it because
I never believed that I couldtruly keep a space organized,
(10:41):
and so she just didn't startbecause she's like, why would I
start if I'm just going to do itall over again?
And I felt that so much becausethere were so many times where
I would spend a weekend emptyingan entire closet and then
trying to put it all backtogether and then not being able
to remember what I did.
So then of course, the closetgot messy again, like two days
(11:03):
later.
Yeah, and then it started.
So that's the first part of itis like truly understanding what
you're trying to achieve andthe feeling you're trying to get
to.
On the other side, most of thepeople I talk to are seeking
peace in one way, shape form oranother.
Right, peace with four kids.
Peace with you know, eightanimals, peace with, like a
(11:24):
crazy chaotic life where yourstuff is chaotic too, and then
it from there.
It's just about trulyunderstanding some of the things
that are holding us back,because with ADHD sometimes we
go into this paralysis state orit's our nervous system is.
We go into all of thesedifferent like fight, flight,
freeze or fawn and we have acertain reaction that we handle
(11:47):
clutter and it's normal.
It's something that we've doneour whole lives and we avoid it,
right, until we get to thepoint that someone's coming over
and we have no choice but toface it head on.
The frenzy yeah or, or we're,we're in a, in a rage, and we're
like I can't believe I've letit get to this point and I'm
just gonna clean up, I'm gonnathrow things in places and I'm
(12:08):
not gonna have a method to mymadness, but don't go in that
door, right, it's like um, didyou ever watch friends like
Monica's closet, where she wouldshove everything?
Mel (12:18):
yes, oh my gosh we all need a closet that used to be me,
that used to be me.
I was like do not go in there.
, od I'm free from that nowright.
Megs (12:28):
But then, like now you've got all of this stuff and of
course you're not going to tryto attack that.
Now you've got like thisgigantic doom closet or doom
piles every there, everywhere,and doom stands for if you don't
know, didn't organize, onlymoved, and so now we're moving
all of our shit all over theplace instead of making any real
lasting change.
(12:48):
And, of course, we're frustratedby it because we've just burnt
ourselves out trying to cleanour home and now we don't even
have something to truly go backand say wow, look what I did,
like it looks nice for a moment,but then chaos ensues because
we have families and homes we'retrying to take care of and life
continues to happen.
So it's about understandingthose regular routines,
(13:12):
understanding your nervoussystem reaction to the clutter
and then continuously making,like itsy bitsy, small changes
along the way to see how theycompound upon one another.
So, yeah, that's a little bitof it, but like I've got a lot
of tools and different thingsthat work with you along the way
.
And then community is so key tothis because, like it's like
(13:35):
having body doubling sessionsand having other people that are
going through the same thing asyou and understanding that
you're not alone.
Everything like it's just sucha beautiful experience.
Mel (13:46):
yeah, I am gonna ask for everyone out there and a little
bit o me, I'll admit what isbody doubling?
Megs (13:53):
Oh my gosh, yeah, so body doubling oh it's so cool.
So it's, it's a proventechnique to support people in
the ADHD community, but I canimagine that it supports humans
in general.
So, it's this idea that you caninvite a friend over and just
their natural presence of havingthem there is going to help you
get things done.
And so if you're strugglingwith something in the home and
(14:14):
you need to do something, invitesomeone over.
They don't have to tell youwhat to do, they don't have to
do it for you, they just have tobe there.
They're not twisting your arm,you're just telling them this is
what I'm doing and for somereason, instead of being in the
back of our mind, we're likewe're ruminating or we're
constantly flying from oneproject to another.
We stick on that projectbecause we have someone there
(14:36):
who's holding us accountable tobeing in our conscious brain,
and so that's really cool.
So we do it on zoom.
So, on zoom, we body double,where we come in and we say what
we're going to do, and then weturn our cameras off, we mute
ourselves, and then we come backat five minutes to the end of
the hour and we talk about whatwe did.
Mel (14:54):
Awesome.
Megs (14:55):
Yeah, it's so fun.
And then we do body doublingd we body we do decluttering
sessions the same way.
So we come in and we talk aboutwhat we're gonna do and then we
all declutter together and thenthat way, if someone's
struggling with something like,say they, they know they want to
let go of something, butthey're not sure the method they
want to use to let it go, andthey're trying to find that
(15:17):
reason or like that thing that'sgoing to make them feel better,
sometimes it's just about thefact that, hey, this is going to
hurt a little bit, it mightfeel a little yucky to let it go
, but is it going to make spacein your life to let new
opportunities in?
Yes, absolutely.
So that's body doubling.
In a nutshell, it's love it.
Mel (15:37):
Yeah, I had not heard of that term before now, so there
you go.
Even I'm learning something.
Megs (15:44):
Absolutely.
Oh my God, it's good, it's agame changer, yeah.
Mel (15:48):
I mean I I guess I already knew that having someone there
and having support and all thatis definitely great.
I just didn't know the term.
I didn't know it was an actualthing, having support and all
that is definitely great.
I just didn't know the term.
Megs (15:59):
I d k i w a a t, otally.
It's funny.
My husband even body doubleswith me, like if he sees me
cleaning he will start to cleanbecause I'm doing it.
So then we're body doublingtogether.
We didn't even realize that'swhat we were doing until like a
couple months ago, and he's like, oh my gosh, I'm body doubling
with you and I'm like, yes,that's crazy my gosh, I'm body
(16:19):
doubling with you and I'm like,yes, that's crazy.
Mel (16:21):
Now I just need to train my husband to do that.
But look, I'll admit, he dealswith the kids, so then I can
clean.
So that's kind of ourarrangement at this point in
time.
Brilliant, I have got the babyand the toddler and all of that.
So it's like, please justhandle them and let me clean,
and then we're all good and letme clean and then we're all good
?
Yes, absolutely so.
(16:49):
In your experience as a coachso far, what do you feel like is
one of the biggest things?
Holding people back even justfrom getting help and dealing
with clutter, or getting on topof the organizing?
What's your experience?
Megs (17:02):
I think one of the biggest things that I've seen is that
people are just so busy Like welive in this world where we're
just go, go, go all the time and, instead of trying to take
things off our plate, we justadd more on and it's almost like
trying to keep up with theJoneses right, like we see all
these other mom friends with us,all their kids are.
(17:24):
They're signed up for like eightdifferent activities and they
seem to still have it alltogether and then they're also
like keeping this perfectcalendar and they're keep like
everything is working out.
They're not human and they'rekeep like everything is working
out, they're not human Right,and so now we're like, okay,
(17:46):
well, I guess I should sign upmy kids for eight different
activities, and now I'm not evenplanning meals.
So I think part of it is justthe fact that we have so much
going on and we can hardly keepup with our homes as it is.
How do we possibly adddecluttering to that and
organizing and like buying theperfect bins, like how do we
have any time to do that?
So then a lot of it, too, islike it's interesting because a
(18:06):
lot of it comes back to our likenatural nervous system
responses to certain things andwhat we do to comfort ourselves.
I have a lot of clients whowill do a ton of research.
They're like I'm just going todive in, I'm going to find out
all the information, so now I'llknow everything.
But then they don't know whereto start because they have so
much going on up here.
So now it's like, okay, I knoweverything to do, so now I know
(18:29):
nothing to do because I've gottoo much information and not
enough like action Right.
So, that's part of it, but thenpart of it is coming back to
the beliefs is like I don't evenbelieve I can sustain it,
because I've tried this beforeand everything's failed.
Mel (18:47):
Yeah, it's crazy so.
Megs (18:49):
I would say that's a lot of like the main stuff.
And then there's a lot ofpeople that come that just don't
know how their brains work,that they're just like.
There's a lot of people thatcome that just don't know how
their brains work, but they'rejust like.
I have ADHD and so do you.
I'm not organized but you are.
And now I'm very curious howthose things can intersect.
(19:09):
So it's just this curiosity, butI would say the biggest thing
out there is like just making adecision to get out of the
comfort zone that you're in,because as much as we hate our
clutter as much as we hate likenot having things organized,
that's also the way you've livedyour life, your whole life, so
you're comfortable there as muchas you hate it.
Yeah, there is some comfortaround it, and so when you make
(19:31):
a change, it's naturally goingto be uncomfortable.
So as you're going through thatdiscomfort which is why a coach
is so important, because we canlead you through it is, as
you're getting through thatdiscomfort, how do you find that
new comfort?
On the other side?
There's regression and there'sall kinds of things that play
into it, but it's fascinating.
Mel (19:52):
Yeah that's so good With my community and followers and all
of that.
I am like, yep, you can go, doall the research, you can learn
all these things yourself.
There's YouTube, there's youknow, shows on Netflix, there's
everything right, like you cando it all yourself.
But it is overwhelming and ittakes a lot of time and you know
(20:14):
it's taken me 12 years to getto the place where all these
parts of my life are organisedand in balance, because I went
from being completelydisorganised, like could not
function at all, to then gettingto a point where I was so
over-organised that it paralysedme too with the perfectionism
(20:35):
and it was so far the other way.
Yeah, paralysed me too with theperfectionism, and it was so far
the other way.
I was snapping at my kids and itwas so bad up till maybe three
years ago.
And then I've sort of come backand I found that happy balance
in the middle and it's just likeyou can learn all this stuff
yourself, you can do it allyourself.
But are you willing topotentially spend 12 years of
(20:58):
your life trying to work it outand tens of thousands of dollars
and all this kind of stuff andbe overwhelmed with it all, or
have someone in your cornerthat's gone through all that for
you and happy to just sort ofbreak it down to just the parts
that you need right now.
Just trust us, we know whatwe're doing break it down to
(21:18):
just the parts that you needright now, just trust us, we
know what we're doing.
Let us just make it simple foryou, because I love to take
things off people's plate andjust go.
You could add more systems, youcould add more things if you
wanted to, but is that reallygoing to help you?
Probably not.
We need to declutter all areasof our life, not just in our
home, but let's remove somethings off the plate first,
(21:39):
before we try and organiseeverything.
So, yeah, I love what you'resaying and, yeah, completely
agree.
So, oh, my goodness, I feellike we could just go on forever
, absolutely.
We've still got more to say, butI'm like I don't even know what
to say next.
We've still got more to say,but I'm like I don't even know
(22:00):
what to say next.
So, beyond the organizing andeverything to do with the ADHD
and everything, how do you findpeople's mindset changes when
they start getting support andhelp with the ADHD, or just in
general, I think?
Megs (22:20):
it's so cool to see the progression right, and I think
it happens a little bitdifferently for everyone as far
as when they're ready, becausesome people, as much as they're
ready to say, yes, here's all mymoney, let's do coaching,
sometimes they're still notready to take action and so it's
just working through the beliefsystem and what's going to help
(22:40):
them get to that next step.
But by the second month they'vegot some sort of routine, some
sort of understanding on howthey can do it.
And the cool thing is is, likeI asked them you know what their
takeaway is and what they'reworking on, or or like what's
made a difference in their life,and they're like I can do it,
(23:00):
like I can actually do this, andit's like it's this realization
of holy crap, like this is real.
This is something that I canactually change in my life about
keeping up with that momentum,because we can be very cyclical
(23:21):
with, like the way that webelieve in ourselves and then we
regress and then we believe inourselves and then we regress,
and so it's just about, asyou're going through this change
, how do you keep up thatmomentum of yeah, I can do this,
I really think I can.
And it's amazing and I thinkthat's one of the coolest things
to see is that just helpingpeople believe in themselves and
understand their beliefs thathave held them back for so long
(23:45):
has been really powerful.
Mel (23:47):
Yep, and you don't even realize it's there a lot of
these times, these limitingbeliefs.
I have found that with thepeople that I've talked to that
you can give them all the tools,all the strategies, all the
ways to simplify, to declutter,to organize their schedule,
(24:07):
whatever it is.
But if their mind is not on theright track, if they do not
believe that they can do it, ifthey self-sabotage, things like
that, you know just if theirmind is not in the game, you can
have all the tools in the worldand it's not going to stick,
it's not going to last.
So one thing, if anything that Ihope we both can get through to
(24:31):
anyone listening, is that itreally starts up here, because
once you get your mind in gear,absolutely anything and
everything is possible.
You can get organized, you canfind that peace and that
intention in your life andorganizing then just becomes a
(24:53):
background thing.
So the rest of your life, youknow you can have that time with
your family, with your friends,in your careers, whatever is
important to you.
You can have that time becausethings are working better in the
background and a big part of itjust starts with your mind and
getting that on the right page,and that's what we're here to
(25:17):
help you with, you know, and soI love that.
So, for everyone listening,what is something that they can
do to support you in what you'redoing, like to follow you?
Megs (25:35):
Yeah, um.
Well, I would say, come find mypodcast Organizing an ADHD
Brain anywhere you listen topodcasts, and let me know what
you think.
I'd love to hear yourperspective on it, or even your
stories.
If you'd like to share andsomething that's worked or not
worked for you, I'd love to hear.
I loved connecting with peoplebecause I think sharing our
(25:55):
lived experiences is soimportant.
It helps oh, my gosh, it helpsus grow.
Um, aside from that, I'm not onsocial media too much, um,
except as a lurker sometimes.
Mel (26:09):
That's not a bad thing.
It could take up a lot of timeand energy.
Megs (26:14):
It does.
I'm actually I'm looking tomake a transition off of social
media eventually, so come findme on the podcast, because
that's where you'll find most ofit.
If you are interested incommunity and Mel has one too so
go look at Mel's communityfirst.
But if ADHD speaks to you andyou're looking for what that
looks like it's, my website isorganizing an ADHD brain and
(26:37):
then forward, slash community tofind the community.
Mel (26:40):
Lovely.
Yes, I had a look through atthat and it looks fantastic with
all the stuff that you'reoffering in there.
So I think you know we can allget something out of it together
, and I I love that you'vecreated a space that is safe and
easy for people that are, youknow, finding it harder to get
(27:03):
on top of the organising thanprobably the average.
Mind you, I'm probably in thataverage category and it was
tough, so I think it can betough for all of us, but I love
that you've created thatcommunity and safe space for
people.
So good on you.
I got you.
Thank you.
(27:23):
Well, I think that we'veprobably covered enough things
and definitely I'll put all theinformation in the description.
So, for those of you that can'tremember and don't want to have
to keep going backwards andforwards throughout the episode,
I'll put all the information inthe description so you can find
Meg's online and find hercommunity if you wish to be part
(27:43):
of that too.
And I just I want to thank youfor joining us today, because I
just loved talking to you and Ilove your mission, what you're
doing and how you're helping,how you're just helping people
in the world.
I love it.
Megs (27:59):
So thank you so much for being on here today.
Thank you, thanks for having meand thanks for what you're
doing right back.
It's amazing.
Mel (28:06):
Thank you, I'll talk to you soon.
Megs (28:09):
Sounds good.
Mel (28:10):
If you love this episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so
you don't miss what's comingnext.
And if you want to continue theconversation, you can connect
with me on Instagram a sheso.
rganized.
organized.
organized or for some over overto head over to
beyondorganizedcom.
slash toolkit.
Remember organizing is a toolto live the purposeful life
beyond it.
See you next time.
Welcome to Beyond Organized , the podcast that helps you
simplify your life and amplifyyour purpose.
I'm Mel Shenker, life coach,speaker, founder of she's
Organized, but, more importantly, a wife and mum of four little
kids, if you've ever feltoverwhelmed like you're
constantly juggling everythingbut never quite catching up.
This is the place for you.
Here we go beyond just thetidying up and creating systems.
(00:42):
We're talking about real lifestrategies that bring order to
your life, but also we talkabout the things beyond the
organizing, the things thatreally matter, like your
parenting relationships and somuch more.
So grab your coffee and let'sdive in.
Welcome to another episode ofBeyond Organised.
(01:02):
I have the lovely MegsCrawford here with us today.
Megs is a professionalorganizing coach with ADHD and
hosts of Organizing an ADHDBrain.
So a bit of background on her.
So she's a recovering clutterhuman herself.
Megs knows firsthand howoverwhelming it can feel to get
(01:24):
organized when your brain worksdifferently.
After leaving the corporateworld to create a life that felt
more aligned, she now helpswomen with ADHD find calm in the
chaos through one-on-onecoaching and a supportive online
community.
She's married with twoenergetic daughters and believes
lasting change starts withmeeting yourself right where you
are.
Her work blends nervous systemawareness, gentle structure and
(01:46):
a whole lot of compassion,because organizing isn't just
about stuff.
It's about believing you can dothings differently.
I love that Megs, Welcome.
Meg,
Megs (01:56):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
Mel (01:59):
It's so good to have you.
It's so nice to be able to talkand connect with someone that
is in the same space as me.
I think it's so good.
Megs (02:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
Mel (02:10):
And like not one of us can help the whole world, so we need
our community of organizers tosupport one another
coac when I brought it up tiyou know I've got you coming on,
and that they were a little bithesitant because they're like
oh, but you're in the same spaceand you know then, like you're
(02:30):
competing, and I was likecompeting, there's no competing,
I'm not in any kind ofcompetition, I'm running my own
race, like I think, you know,it's just about complimenting
each other and working together,and why can't my audience and
your audience be the sameaudience.
Megs (02:50):
Yeah, totally fine um, we can learn stuff from each other
too, right?
Mel (02:54):
the more we talk and the more we share stories and lived
experiences yeah, that's it, andI'm constantly learning, even
in what I'm doing, and I'm sureyou are too.
We can all keep learning andgrowing, and I think the day we
stop learning is probably theday we should stop doing this,
right?
Yeah, for sure.
Oh well, let's get in.
(03:14):
I've got a few questions foryou, and I'm sure the more you
talk, the more my brain's goingto keep going.
So what inspired you to getinto this space of organizing,
and particularly with the ADHD?
Megs (03:29):
yeah, absolutely so.
I left the corporate world.
I was in leadership and I wasgetting my project management
master's degree, and so therewas a lot of things I wanted to
do, but I felt lost in thecorporate world.
I had been doing it for almostnine years climbing the ladder.
I knew I could go further, butthere was something about me
that needed to leave.
I felt like I was in a reallytoxic position, so I left.
(03:53):
I was working with a careercoach at the time, which I
highly recommend.
Coaches are so amazing becausethey just help you see things
from a new perspective and shehelped me understand some of the
things that I really loved todo.
And one thing I had beenfocused on in my own home was
starting to let go of all of thestuff.
Now I had done like a lot ofselling stuff online and like
(04:15):
you know, cause I had kids andso as soon as they grew out of
something, I'm like well, howcan?
I make this work?
How can I make it intosomething that makes sense for
me?
But I wanted to createPinterest perfect pantries.
I wanted to create the spacesthat were envious of the home
edit, you know, and really condo.
Mel (04:35):
I love those shows.
Megs (04:36):
Oh, my gosh, me too Right and like they're so
aesthetically pleasing andthey're beautiful, the colors,
oh yes, it's amazing pleasingand they're beautiful.
It's amazing and I realizedpretty quickly that, in order to
get there there was a lot ofwork involved and there was a
lot of change involved, andthere was a lot of understanding
(04:57):
your own uniqueness and how youwork in order to get to those
spaces.
So I asked other organizers whenyou go into someone's home, do
you work with them or do youwork for them, Right Like, do
you go into?
The space for them, or do youwork alongside with them?
And they said well, it justdepends, Like we'd let them
decide.
But then sometimes we'll comeback and the space isn't the way
(05:19):
that we put it in the firstplace and I was like, well, yeah
, of course it's not going to bethe way that you put it in the
first place.
Yeah, they have no idea what youdid and now they have to work
in their own brain to figure itout.
So as I started to understandhow I wanted to operate in my
own business and as I started tounderstand my own ADHD brain,
(05:41):
it just so happened that Istarted to work with a lot of
people with ADHD by chance andpeople who also like
self-diagnosed through listeningto my podcast or you know,
they're starting to realize somany of the signs, so many of
the things that show up forthemselves, and so I started to
get really passionate abouthelping people with ADHD learn
how to let go, because I have avery strong emotional connection
(06:04):
to my stuff.
And so when I started to learnhow to let go because I have a
very strong emotional connectionto my stuff, and so when I
started to learn how to let goin a way that made sense for me
I just wanted to help others dothe same, and I wanted others
others to know that just becauseyou've been clutter full your
whole life doesn't mean thatthat's going to be your normal
forever.
So that's a little bit abouthow I broke into this space, but
(06:25):
it's also the podcast likelearning through people who had
ADHD and have ADHD.
Their journeys have helped me aton in discovering my own, so
that I can help people that Ihelp discover how their brain
works.
It's been fascinating.
Mel (06:42):
I love it, I love all of it , and I did listen to some of
your podcasts and it's funnybecause I don't have ADHD but my
eldest son does and since hegot diagnosed I started seeing
signs.
I guess you could say.
But then I think it's justbecause I mean I've got four
kids now.
I think it's just beingoverstimulated and just so much
(07:04):
going on all the time that, okay, it's the season I'm in, it's
not a formal diagnosis, but Ican so relate to the stuff
you're saying, just as anoverstimulated mom, you know,
with so much going on.
So you cater not only to thosethat have been, you know,
diagnosed, it's for all the restof us that are just trying to
(07:25):
get through the day.
So it's great.
I think what you're doing isreally, really good.
Megs (07:31):
Thank you, and like to that point.
I think sometimes we feel likewe need to stop the world and
just get a week to ourselves sothat we can get everything
organized.
And then, once we have thatweek, we're going to do
everything, we're going to getit all organized and then we can
live our life and it'll beeasier.
But that's not the reality Lifenever stops.
Mel (07:48):
No, that's it.
I mean to be honest.
If I had a week off everything,I probably wouldn't be at home
organising my stuff.
Megs (07:57):
Yes, exactly, that is the last thing you would be doing.
Mel (08:00):
Yeah, that's it, and I think it's so important to start
little and create these littleroutines and ways of going about
things and make things work foryou.
I love how you said how you gointo people's homes and like
you're working with them.
You're working with thesepeople with whatever situation
(08:21):
it is, and you know it's notjust for them, it's with them.
And I love that because I'm thekind of person as well that you
know if you end up puttingsomething down in a particular
spot, don't try and change thathabit.
Make that habit work for you.
Like there's a particular spoton the kitchen bench where my
(08:42):
husband and kids and everyoneloves to dump stuff and I don't
particularly like it there, butthat's the spot that it is and
it is in the corner.
So I got a container, that kindof blended in everything dumps
in there and then if we have aparty or something, I literally
just take the container and moveit away and then for the every
(09:03):
day with the rest of the stuff,I'll just pop it back, I go.
You know what I'm going to workwith the family habits instead
of against it, and it just makesmy life so much easier and I'm
all about just making thingssimple easier, and it sounds
like you're on that same trainof thought, so yes, absolutely
yeah, just like working withyourself instead of against.
(09:23):
So how like?
What's your particular processin the way that you go about
things?
Megs (09:30):
So I'm now, I'm now working with women solely online
, um, and men too, becausethat's just the way that it
happens.
Mel (09:37):
They need it too.
Megs (09:38):
Absolutely so.
he way that I start my processis through manifestation and
truly understanding what youwant your space to be, getting a
true vision of what the futureholds, because oftentimes we get
really excited about organizingor doing a project but then we
lose momentum because we don'tknow where it's going.
(09:58):
And taking small and tinyactions toward that bigger
project is something that canhold us back because we don't
see the efforts put in rightaway.
That's why before and afterpictures are so important right,
yes.
I love them, starting withmanifestation and then truly
(10:19):
understanding some of thebeliefs you need to hold on to
in order to get to the otherside.
So part of what holds us back,like I remember my first client
ever working coaching coachingher over the phone, she was
telling me I've never really putso much effort into it because
I never believed that I couldtruly keep a space organized,
(10:41):
and so she just didn't startbecause she's like, why would I
start if I'm just going to do itall over again?
And I felt that so much becausethere were so many times where
I would spend a weekend emptyingan entire closet and then
trying to put it all backtogether and then not being able
to remember what I did.
So then of course, the closetgot messy again, like two days
(11:03):
later.
Yeah, and then it started.
So that's the first part of itis like truly understanding what
you're trying to achieve andthe feeling you're trying to get
to.
On the other side, most of thepeople I talk to are seeking
peace in one way, shape form oranother.
Right, peace with four kids.
Peace with you know, eightanimals, peace with, like a
(11:24):
crazy chaotic life where yourstuff is chaotic too, and then
it from there.
It's just about trulyunderstanding some of the things
that are holding us back,because with ADHD sometimes we
go into this paralysis state orit's our nervous system is.
We go into all of thesedifferent like fight, flight,
freeze or fawn and we have acertain reaction that we handle
(11:47):
clutter and it's normal.
It's something that we've doneour whole lives and we avoid it,
right, until we get to thepoint that someone's coming over
and we have no choice but toface it head on.
The frenzy yeah or, or we're,we're in a, in a rage, and we're
like I can't believe I've letit get to this point and I'm
just gonna clean up, I'm gonnathrow things in places and I'm
(12:08):
not gonna have a method to mymadness, but don't go in that
door, right, it's like um, didyou ever watch friends like
Monica's closet, where she wouldshove everything?
Mel (12:18):
yes, oh my gosh we all need a closet that used to be me,
that used to be me.
I was like do not go in there.
, od I'm free from that nowright.
Megs (12:28):
But then, like now you've got all of this stuff and of
course you're not going to tryto attack that.
Now you've got like thisgigantic doom closet or doom
piles every there, everywhere,and doom stands for if you don't
know, didn't organize, onlymoved, and so now we're moving
all of our shit all over theplace instead of making any real
lasting change.
(12:48):
And, of course, we're frustratedby it because we've just burnt
ourselves out trying to cleanour home and now we don't even
have something to truly go backand say wow, look what I did,
like it looks nice for a moment,but then chaos ensues because
we have families and homes we'retrying to take care of and life
continues to happen.
So it's about understandingthose regular routines,
(13:12):
understanding your nervoussystem reaction to the clutter
and then continuously making,like itsy bitsy, small changes
along the way to see how theycompound upon one another.
So, yeah, that's a little bitof it, but like I've got a lot
of tools and different thingsthat work with you along the way
.
And then community is so key tothis because, like it's like
(13:35):
having body doubling sessionsand having other people that are
going through the same thing asyou and understanding that
you're not alone.
Everything like it's just sucha beautiful experience.
Mel (13:46):
yeah, I am gonna ask for everyone out there and a little
bit o me, I'll admit what isbody doubling?
Megs (13:53):
Oh my gosh, yeah, so body doubling oh it's so cool.
So it's, it's a proventechnique to support people in
the ADHD community, but I canimagine that it supports humans
in general.
So, it's this idea that you caninvite a friend over and just
their natural presence of havingthem there is going to help you
get things done.
And so if you're strugglingwith something in the home and
(14:14):
you need to do something, invitesomeone over.
They don't have to tell youwhat to do, they don't have to
do it for you, they just have tobe there.
They're not twisting your arm,you're just telling them this is
what I'm doing and for somereason, instead of being in the
back of our mind, we're likewe're ruminating or we're
constantly flying from oneproject to another.
We stick on that projectbecause we have someone there
(14:36):
who's holding us accountable tobeing in our conscious brain,
and so that's really cool.
So we do it on zoom.
So, on zoom, we body double,where we come in and we say what
we're going to do, and then weturn our cameras off, we mute
ourselves, and then we come backat five minutes to the end of
the hour and we talk about whatwe did.
Mel (14:54):
Awesome.
Megs (14:55):
Yeah, it's so fun.
And then we do body doublingd we body we do decluttering
sessions the same way.
So we come in and we talk aboutwhat we're gonna do and then we
all declutter together and thenthat way, if someone's
struggling with something like,say they, they know they want to
let go of something, butthey're not sure the method they
want to use to let it go, andthey're trying to find that
(15:17):
reason or like that thing that'sgoing to make them feel better,
sometimes it's just about thefact that, hey, this is going to
hurt a little bit, it mightfeel a little yucky to let it go
, but is it going to make spacein your life to let new
opportunities in?
Yes, absolutely.
So that's body doubling.
In a nutshell, it's love it.
Mel (15:37):
Yeah, I had not heard of that term before now, so there
you go.
Even I'm learning something.
Megs (15:44):
Absolutely.
Oh my God, it's good, it's agame changer, yeah.
Mel (15:48):
I mean I I guess I already knew that having someone there
and having support and all thatis definitely great.
I just didn't know the term.
I didn't know it was an actualthing, having support and all
that is definitely great.
I just didn't know the term.
Megs (15:59):
I d k i w a a t, otally.
It's funny.
My husband even body doubleswith me, like if he sees me
cleaning he will start to cleanbecause I'm doing it.
So then we're body doublingtogether.
We didn't even realize that'swhat we were doing until like a
couple months ago, and he's like, oh my gosh, I'm body doubling
with you and I'm like, yes,that's crazy my gosh, I'm body
(16:19):
doubling with you and I'm like,yes, that's crazy.
Mel (16:21):
Now I just need to train my husband to do that.
But look, I'll admit, he dealswith the kids, so then I can
clean.
So that's kind of ourarrangement at this point in
time.
Brilliant, I have got the babyand the toddler and all of that.
So it's like, please justhandle them and let me clean,
and then we're all good and letme clean and then we're all good
?
Yes, absolutely so.
(16:49):
In your experience as a coachso far, what do you feel like is
one of the biggest things?
Holding people back even justfrom getting help and dealing
with clutter, or getting on topof the organizing?
What's your experience?
Megs (17:02):
I think one of the biggest things that I've seen is that
people are just so busy Like welive in this world where we're
just go, go, go all the time and, instead of trying to take
things off our plate, we justadd more on and it's almost like
trying to keep up with theJoneses right, like we see all
these other mom friends with us,all their kids are.
(17:24):
They're signed up for like eightdifferent activities and they
seem to still have it alltogether and then they're also
like keeping this perfectcalendar and they're keep like
everything is working out.
They're not human and they'rekeep like everything is working
out, they're not human Right,and so now we're like, okay,
(17:46):
well, I guess I should sign upmy kids for eight different
activities, and now I'm not evenplanning meals.
So I think part of it is justthe fact that we have so much
going on and we can hardly keepup with our homes as it is.
How do we possibly adddecluttering to that and
organizing and like buying theperfect bins, like how do we
have any time to do that?
So then a lot of it, too, islike it's interesting because a
(18:06):
lot of it comes back to our likenatural nervous system
responses to certain things andwhat we do to comfort ourselves.
I have a lot of clients whowill do a ton of research.
They're like I'm just going todive in, I'm going to find out
all the information, so now I'llknow everything.
But then they don't know whereto start because they have so
much going on up here.
So now it's like, okay, I knoweverything to do, so now I know
(18:29):
nothing to do because I've gottoo much information and not
enough like action Right.
So, that's part of it, but thenpart of it is coming back to
the beliefs is like I don't evenbelieve I can sustain it,
because I've tried this beforeand everything's failed.
Mel (18:47):
Yeah, it's crazy so.
Megs (18:49):
I would say that's a lot of like the main stuff.
And then there's a lot ofpeople that come that just don't
know how their brains work,that they're just like.
There's a lot of people thatcome that just don't know how
their brains work, but they'rejust like.
I have ADHD and so do you.
I'm not organized but you are.
And now I'm very curious howthose things can intersect.
(19:09):
So it's just this curiosity, butI would say the biggest thing
out there is like just making adecision to get out of the
comfort zone that you're in,because as much as we hate our
clutter as much as we hate likenot having things organized,
that's also the way you've livedyour life, your whole life, so
you're comfortable there as muchas you hate it.
Yeah, there is some comfortaround it, and so when you make
(19:31):
a change, it's naturally goingto be uncomfortable.
So as you're going through thatdiscomfort which is why a coach
is so important, because we canlead you through it is, as
you're getting through thatdiscomfort, how do you find that
new comfort?
On the other side?
There's regression and there'sall kinds of things that play
into it, but it's fascinating.
Mel (19:52):
Yeah that's so good With my community and followers and all
of that.
I am like, yep, you can go, doall the research, you can learn
all these things yourself.
There's YouTube, there's youknow, shows on Netflix, there's
everything right, like you cando it all yourself.
But it is overwhelming and ittakes a lot of time and you know
(20:14):
it's taken me 12 years to getto the place where all these
parts of my life are organisedand in balance, because I went
from being completelydisorganised, like could not
function at all, to then gettingto a point where I was so
over-organised that it paralysedme too with the perfectionism
(20:35):
and it was so far the other way.
Yeah, paralysed me too with theperfectionism, and it was so far
the other way.
I was snapping at my kids and itwas so bad up till maybe three
years ago.
And then I've sort of come backand I found that happy balance
in the middle and it's just likeyou can learn all this stuff
yourself, you can do it allyourself.
But are you willing topotentially spend 12 years of
(20:58):
your life trying to work it outand tens of thousands of dollars
and all this kind of stuff andbe overwhelmed with it all, or
have someone in your cornerthat's gone through all that for
you and happy to just sort ofbreak it down to just the parts
that you need right now.
Just trust us, we know whatwe're doing break it down to
(21:18):
just the parts that you needright now, just trust us, we
know what we're doing.
Let us just make it simple foryou, because I love to take
things off people's plate andjust go.
You could add more systems, youcould add more things if you
wanted to, but is that reallygoing to help you?
Probably not.
We need to declutter all areasof our life, not just in our
home, but let's remove somethings off the plate first,
(21:39):
before we try and organiseeverything.
So, yeah, I love what you'resaying and, yeah, completely
agree.
So, oh, my goodness, I feellike we could just go on forever
, absolutely.
We've still got more to say, butI'm like I don't even know what
to say next.
We've still got more to say,but I'm like I don't even know
(22:00):
what to say next.
So, beyond the organizing andeverything to do with the ADHD
and everything, how do you findpeople's mindset changes when
they start getting support andhelp with the ADHD, or just in
general, I think?
Megs (22:20):
it's so cool to see the progression right, and I think
it happens a little bitdifferently for everyone as far
as when they're ready, becausesome people, as much as they're
ready to say, yes, here's all mymoney, let's do coaching,
sometimes they're still notready to take action and so it's
just working through the beliefsystem and what's going to help
(22:40):
them get to that next step.
But by the second month they'vegot some sort of routine, some
sort of understanding on howthey can do it.
And the cool thing is is, likeI asked them you know what their
takeaway is and what they'reworking on, or or like what's
made a difference in their life,and they're like I can do it,
(23:00):
like I can actually do this, andit's like it's this realization
of holy crap, like this is real.
This is something that I canactually change in my life about
keeping up with that momentum,because we can be very cyclical
(23:21):
with, like the way that webelieve in ourselves and then we
regress and then we believe inourselves and then we regress,
and so it's just about, asyou're going through this change
, how do you keep up thatmomentum of yeah, I can do this,
I really think I can.
And it's amazing and I thinkthat's one of the coolest things
to see is that just helpingpeople believe in themselves and
understand their beliefs thathave held them back for so long
(23:45):
has been really powerful.
Mel (23:47):
Yep, and you don't even realize it's there a lot of
these times, these limitingbeliefs.
I have found that with thepeople that I've talked to that
you can give them all the tools,all the strategies, all the
ways to simplify, to declutter,to organize their schedule,
(24:07):
whatever it is.
But if their mind is not on theright track, if they do not
believe that they can do it, ifthey self-sabotage, things like
that, you know just if theirmind is not in the game, you can
have all the tools in the worldand it's not going to stick,
it's not going to last.
So one thing, if anything that Ihope we both can get through to
(24:31):
anyone listening, is that itreally starts up here, because
once you get your mind in gear,absolutely anything and
everything is possible.
You can get organized, you canfind that peace and that
intention in your life andorganizing then just becomes a
(24:53):
background thing.
So the rest of your life, youknow you can have that time with
your family, with your friends,in your careers, whatever is
important to you.
You can have that time becausethings are working better in the
background and a big part of itjust starts with your mind and
getting that on the right page,and that's what we're here to
(25:17):
help you with, you know, and soI love that.
So, for everyone listening,what is something that they can
do to support you in what you'redoing, like to follow you?
Megs (25:35):
Yeah, um.
Well, I would say, come find mypodcast Organizing an ADHD
Brain anywhere you listen topodcasts, and let me know what
you think.
I'd love to hear yourperspective on it, or even your
stories.
If you'd like to share andsomething that's worked or not
worked for you, I'd love to hear.
I loved connecting with peoplebecause I think sharing our
(25:55):
lived experiences is soimportant.
It helps oh, my gosh, it helpsus grow.
Um, aside from that, I'm not onsocial media too much, um,
except as a lurker sometimes.
Mel (26:09):
That's not a bad thing.
It could take up a lot of timeand energy.
Megs (26:14):
It does.
I'm actually I'm looking tomake a transition off of social
media eventually, so come findme on the podcast, because
that's where you'll find most ofit.
If you are interested incommunity and Mel has one too so
go look at Mel's communityfirst.
But if ADHD speaks to you andyou're looking for what that
looks like it's, my website isorganizing an ADHD brain and
(26:37):
then forward, slash community tofind the community.
Mel (26:40):
Lovely.
Yes, I had a look through atthat and it looks fantastic with
all the stuff that you'reoffering in there.
So I think you know we can allget something out of it together
, and I I love that you'vecreated a space that is safe and
easy for people that are, youknow, finding it harder to get
(27:03):
on top of the organising thanprobably the average.
Mind you, I'm probably in thataverage category and it was
tough, so I think it can betough for all of us, but I love
that you've created thatcommunity and safe space for
people.
So good on you.
I got you.
Thank you.
(27:23):
Well, I think that we'veprobably covered enough things
and definitely I'll put all theinformation in the description.
So, for those of you that can'tremember and don't want to have
to keep going backwards andforwards throughout the episode,
I'll put all the information inthe description so you can find
Meg's online and find hercommunity if you wish to be part
(27:43):
of that too.
And I just I want to thank youfor joining us today, because I
just loved talking to you and Ilove your mission, what you're
doing and how you're helping,how you're just helping people
in the world.
I love it.
Megs (27:59):
So thank you so much for being on here today.
Thank you, thanks for having meand thanks for what you're
doing right back.
It's amazing.
Mel (28:06):
Thank you, I'll talk to you soon.
Megs (28:09):
Sounds good.
Mel (28:10):
If you love this episode, don't forget to hit subscribe so
you don't miss what's comingnext.
And if you want to continue theconversation, you can connect
with me on Instagram a sheso.
rganized.
organized.
organized or for some over overto head over to
beyondorganizedcom.
slash toolkit.
Remember organizing is a toolto live the purposeful life
beyond it.
See you next time.
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