BTE4.04 Scaling for Growth: Budget with Tom Hahn and Korey Klein

Mailbag questions or topic suggestions? Text us!

Meet Tom Hahn, the "everything pastor" at Restoration Christian Church, who shares his journey of dedication and community engagement. Tom's story is one of faith and resilience, detailing how he transformed a modest church gathering into a thriving community with limited resources.

We also chat about the upcoming SuperStart 2025 tour, celebrating 20 impactful years of preteen ministry.

Finding quiet amidst the chaos of bustling church events can be a challenge. We discuss the different ways individuals seek spiritual nourishment during such times, with Brad sharing how he finds solace in the company of other believers, rather than in solitude. This conversation explores the concept of events as "thin spaces," moments where we feel closer to God, and acknowledges the diverse ways people experience their faith. Whether through solitary moments or communal experiences, we embrace the unique nature of everyone's relationship with God and the idea that spiritual practice isn't one-size-fits-all.

Our lively discussion also takes us on a ride from Muncie to French Lick, Indiana, chronicling Tom's adventurous journey of faith during the COVID-19 pandemic. He recounts moving and building a church community from the ground up, highlighting the importance of embracing change and trusting in God's plan, even when it's uncertain. We dive into the innovative, low-control, high-support model that empowers youth ministry in French Lick, fostering student ownership and community engagement. From the logistics of budgeting in ministry to the excitement of youth camps, this episode underscores the transformative power of aligning the church's vision with God's vision, inspiring growth and development within the community.

Be sure to check out the new video version of this podcast on YouTube!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So get this Michael Yep.
Tom works at a church, yep,where he is the only staff
member.
Yes, no part-time staff, nofull-time staff.
What size group would you guessthat he is bringing to move?
Oh, gosh.
See, I bet the answer is goingto shock me like a but like just

(00:25):
pretend that I'm not beingclickbaity, just like.
How many people would you?

Speaker 3 (00:29):
if I think my assumption would be 1,200 people
.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
I would.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I would bet six students.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
They are currently registered to bring 60 students
to move.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Dang yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Hi, I'm Brad Warren, and this is Beyond the Event, a
youth ministry podcast presentedby Christ in Youth, where we
help you maintain momentumbetween the mountaintops.
Today is a continuation of aconversation that we started a
couple weeks ago about how toscale for growth.
A lot of churches out there aregrowing, and that's really
exciting and very encouraging tome and to all my brothers and
sisters here at Christ in Youth,and so we just wanted to have a

(01:15):
few conversations about how togrow not like how to grow, but
the infrastructure that you haveto put in place around that
growth in order to make surethat you're able to take care of
all of the people that God hasentrusted to your care.
Joining me today my co-host,the beautiful Corey Klein.

(01:36):
Thank you, Brad Corey.
Ask me about my coffee mug,yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Hey, Brad, I noticed you have a really cool coffee
mug.
I can't say words.
What am I looking at?
What is this so?

Speaker 1 (01:48):
this is a beautiful coffee mug.
Those who are watching onYouTube they see it.
They can see it.
Michael got me this.
Isn't that nice?
Michael and I are both from thegreat Commonwealth of Kentucky.
Where's that?
And it's in the United Statesof America.
It borders Virginia, northCarolina, tennessee, missouri,

(02:08):
illinois.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Indiana and Ohio.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Okay, and West Virginia Cool, of course.
Hatfields and McCoys.
How could I forget?
Um, so, anyway, we're both fromKentucky.
Michael went and hiked at redriver gorge, which is the most
beautiful state park in thecountry.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Is it really Michael?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
It is very, very beautiful.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Most beautiful.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
I haven't been to all the state parks, okay, so great
answer.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Great answer, I guess .

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Kentucky is celebrating 100 years of their
state parks.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
So Michael got me this great mug, which was a very
thoughtful and sweet gift.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
That's really nice of you, michael.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
I really did.
My sister can vouch, not thatwe're going to take the time to
ask.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Let's pull her in right now.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I saw that mug and I said, oh, Brad would like that.
You were right.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Thank you, Michael.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
I love it.
Anyway, this episode isreleasing the day before
election day.
Who you voting for?
Well?

Speaker 3 (03:09):
on that note.
Uh, just kidding.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Elections are wild man.
They're so crazy, we're gonnatalk.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
You know, jesus is on the throne.
Jesus is on the throne.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
We got better stuff to talk about come on now better
stuff to talk about, like, uhlike, super start, yes, you're
the director of super start?

Speaker 3 (03:29):
I am, yes and um.
I love super start you're verygood at your your job when you
come to super starts, by the way, really, yeah, am I?
So brad gets to direct a fewsuper starts every year, and it
used to be a few.
This coming year it's a couple,it's two.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I got demoted.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
No, you didn't get demoted.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
I went from three to two.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
You're telling me that I do a good job, but what
I'm picking up, what I'mreceiving from you is last year
you got to do three.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
This year you get to do two.
Yeah, I want to make sure thatthose two are really really good
and you will bring that to thetwo.
It's a capacity thing.
It's that's all.
I couldn't do.
Three really well, yeah, yeah.
So I know you got this podcasttoo.
Yeah, you got the podcast, so Ididn't want to interfere with
that I get it.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
um, it is one of the the pleasures of my life to
direct Super Start.
I always get to go back to theCommonwealth of Kentucky, to my
home state, and actually the guythat we're talking to today
always comes to that event SuperStart in.
Kentucky.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
His name is Tom.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Hahn.
He is the everything pastor atRestoration Christian Church in
french lake, indiana, and uh, sobe sure to hang around because
we're going to talk to tom andtom is really a truly wonderful
guy and, uh, I I really cherishevery opportunity that I get to
talk with him.
Every year at super start.
There's always like one sessionthat he skips like 30 minutes

(05:02):
of so that he can stand in thelobby and talk to me, gotcha,
and it's one of my favoritetimes of every year he skips
session, just like 30 minutes.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
Okay, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
It's not that he like intentionally skips it's that
he is a super personable guy Forsure.
And so we just get to talkingand it's like you know that
train is moving, it ain'tstopping I love it.
I love it so yeah, this couldbe a three-hour podcast, I don't
know we'll see what happens.
We'll see what happens anyway.

(05:35):
Uh, cory, what are you excitedabout for superstar in 2025?

Speaker 3 (05:42):
five.
First off, that's crazy thatthat's a year 2025.
A few things, but the numberone thing I'm excited about for
those who don't know this willbe 20 years of SuperCert, when
we hit tour in 2025.
20 years of God using thispreteen ministry, this
conference, to further thekingdom of God.
So 20 years, 2005 to 2025.

(06:04):
So we're just going to get tocelebrate in different ways
throughout next year, which I'mexcited about.
I'm also really excited aboutour theme, which it's out there.
You could check it out on CIOIwebsite if you have not seen it
yet.
But we're looking at Proverbs4.23, about guarding your heart
above all else, for itdetermines your path, and

(06:26):
basically, what we're going tobe talking about is this word of
influence and the things inyour life.
They shape you, whether youknow it or not.
So we get to talk with 10, 11,12 year olds about, hey, the
things that you take in in yourlife, good and bad, they shape
you, but also, on the other side, you're shaping others.
So what our team from Rob toothers on content is creating

(06:48):
and writing right now for yourstudents to just fully know who
Jesus is and how he is shapingtheir hearts.
It's just, I believe, going tobe one of the most powerful
years of superstar, and so I'mlooking forward to that too.
Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
I'm I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Actually, uh, today is our uh staff cleaning day
which is fun.
I smell terrible, right now Ismell like Clorox wipes.
Um but we clean everything headto toe, little little, uh
little dusting of the wholeproperty and everything that we
own.
Yeah, and I was in a Sprinter,I was on van duty, I was

(07:30):
cleaning out all the vans.
And I was in one of the notSprinters, the people movers,
yeah, and the only time I'm everin those things is when I go to
Superstar, superstar, and I wasin one cleaning it out and I
was like man, I cannot wait toload this thing up and drive it
all the way to Louisville,kentucky, and and have

(07:51):
superstars.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
You'll be with a great crew as well, will I?
Patrick Snow will be with you.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
I love Patrick.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
He's the best, so you're just going to have a
great time.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, a lot of board games, probably a lot of board
games games probably card games,a lot of board games, yeah
that's gonna be good.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, it'll be a good time.
Michael, are you going to thatone?
Um, I don't know yet you better.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
The tradition is that we go michael always production
manages superstar kentucky ortypically yeah, typically I've
done it, I've done it twice.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I'll most likely be likely be there, but
we just don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yes, and Michael's mom, margie, cooks us all a
dinner.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
That's amazing.
What does she cook?
Chili, ooh Chili, spaghetti,cincinnati style chili.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
So, but it's not the same as like Skyline.
Yeah, I was going to say betterthan.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Skyline for sure.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
It's more soupy than like Skyline would be.
Because, Skyline comes in likeplates.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, majority of the time.
No, we do bowls.
Okay, but it's chili overspaghetti.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, and cheese.
And then obviously that's avery controversial dish.
Some people don't like it, yeah, so Margie also typically has
another option as well.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, very smart.
Well, yeah, the noodles arealways like separate.
Yeah, okay, even, like, even.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
But she made like a creamy potato soup last time too
.
That was pretty baller, it wasso good.
I mean, she raised 12 children,so I would assume she could
cook a very, very good meal.
Yeah, she can, yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
So that's, amazing.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, by the way, if anyone doesn't know, that's not
an exaggeration, it's not.
Michael has 11 siblings.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Where are you at in the order of siblings Number?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
five.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
I'm number five, but I'm the youngest.
You're number five but thenthey stop.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Perfection I only have one brother and it's insane
for me to think I literallycan't even wrap my head around
even being part of a familywhere there are five yeah, yeah,
siblings much less there's 12.
12, just a wild time.
Are you the oldest or youngest?
Uh, I'm older okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I have one younger brother, okay, so yep
siblings different lives.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
You know what I mean way different.
Yeah, we've oh, this is fun,we've got like oldest child
energy, middle child energy.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Youngest.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely,which you?

Speaker 1 (10:11):
definitely bring.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Do I, yes, okay, yeah .

Speaker 1 (10:15):
You're totally a youngest child.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
You just know it.
Yeah, you just don't like carewhat anybody thinks about you.
That's true, you know that'strue, I feel like that's a
youngest child thing.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, I think so.
All right, that's enough ofthat.
Do we have mailbag?
Do we have mailbag questions?
I'll be honest, we're running alittle bit low.
Okay, there is actually a linkin our show notes now where you
can text us mailbag questions.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Wow, that's amazing, that's really cool.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
I know so technology do that right now unless you're
driving.
But even if you're at a redlight, go ahead and text.
We have amazing people on thispodcast all the time like Corey
Klein and want to answer yourquestions.
So you can text us thosequestions, you can email, you
can do whatever you know justget them to us.
So we're running a little low,but we do have another question

(11:02):
for sweet sweet Corey.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Oh, we do.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Okay, I guess.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, that's what I said.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
The way you said that made it sound like you had a
question in mind, but no, Idon't write into that.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
I don't do questions this is a time where Brad
doesn't have to talk, so yeah,okay, we have a question.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
I really really like this question.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Oh, I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
I think that it might be a little bit challenging, a
question from our dear friendHaley Fouts.
Oh, I love Haley.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
She's one of our backstage managers for Superstar
.
One of our backstage managersfor Superstar when she gets back
from a long-term mission inHawaii, hawaii.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Real difficult place, I'm so sorry that God called
you to Hawaii, hawaii, hawaii.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, real difficult place.
Yeah, I'm so sorry that Godcalled you to Hawaii, Haley I
can't wait to hear about all theways that Haley learned to be
challenged by her discomfort,how the Lord strengthened her to
hang out on the beach and inthe jungle and eat poke bowls,
and eat poke bowls, and eat pokebowls.
Anyway, haley's asking thisquestion.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
What does personal quiet time look like?

Speaker 1 (12:14):
at an event Like for staff.
For staff, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
I said it would be challenging.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
When I close my eyes Friday night and I go to bed.
No, but seriously, um, I wouldsay, if I'm looking at a weekend
of Superstar cause for methat's 10 years of my life.
Um, there's these.
There's these moments in theafternoon on a Friday when I
used to act, where I wouldreally try to find 30 minutes to
an hour.
I mean, you guys know there'ssome, there is some downtime on

(12:42):
those Fridays to just whetherthat's going backstage, going
outside around the churchbuilding, whatever it is, and
there's been times where I'veread a book or I've literally
put in my AirPods and listenedto some music to just center my
mind and like on what God isgoing to do.
So there are moments not awhole lot, but on a weekend of

(13:03):
Superstar, to just center yourmind and heart on Christ.
But also, honestly, justbackstage, even right before,
like during the sessions, I'mjust waiting.
It sounds weird, but waiting inthe darkness before going out
there and, instead of being witheveryone in the green room or
whatnot, just waiting and justpraying and thinking about what
God is going to do in that nextmoment, um, before going out on

(13:27):
stage or as a director, thatnext moment before talking with
adult leader, or encounteringand talking to a student.
Um, that's, that's what it isfor me, brad.
What about you?
Do you find moments at events?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Um, I'm going to be.
I'm trying to think of howhonest I want to be in this very
public forum about this.
Um, because this is, uh, youknow what I'm just going for it
be honest, full send that's whatthis is this is beyond the
events, be honest.

(14:00):
Um, I do not even try to getpersonal quiet time when I'm at
an event and, uh, events arealso like thin spaces for me
where I feel closer to God thanprobably anywhere else.
For sure, um, and I think it isbecause I am surrounded by like

(14:22):
a community of believers allthe time and I think it's just
like okay that for that season,that's how I'm filled is through
that community.
And then you get home andthere's plenty of time to like
get back into a rhythm andcreate some space where I can be
just just me and God.

(14:42):
But I'm going to be honest,where I can be just me and God.
But I'm going to be honest, Ithink faith is something that is
meant to be communal and I tryto be in the Word every single
day.
I definitely pray all the time,but having a personal quiet

(15:04):
time every single day is notsomething that is a priority for
me.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
That's great, like where I'm just by myself and
quiet yeah.
Michael Definitely occasionally, but not every day.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
I think that's a real thing.
I think thinking of events asthin spaces is a pretty great
way to put it.
Yeah, which I would say kind ofcontrasts like a challenge that
I had when I was a student atOzark Christian College, where I
was coasting a lot on likeBible classes and being in the

(15:33):
word because I was in theclassroom and then when I
graduated I was like not havingregular times like reading
scripture or anything like that,and that was that was, you know
, not super awesome, but I thinkat an event it is.
It is different because it's ait's.

(15:55):
I don't even know how to tryand frame up like what, like how
it is different, but butthere's so much going on that
allows us to see so clearly andso closely, I think, the way
that the Lord is working.
Um, yeah, I mean, I think Ithink thinking of it as a thin
space is a great way to framethat up and why, why it's like

(16:18):
you know, not like well, brad,you should work harder.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Right, yeah, having quiet time.
Yeah, here's the deal.
I'm not really into.
I'm just not really into makingmyself feel guilty.
Yeah, Over that.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
You know, and I don't think anybody should yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
I don't Everyone's different.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
But I mean everyone is different and there are
people that like really stronglyprioritize, like I need 30
minutes alone with just me andGod every day, and that is not
an expression that my faith andmy relationship with God has
really ever taken in my lifepeople might think people might
think I'm a heathen.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
The way you meet and encounter God is in that way,
which is beautiful.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean I do, we all do, yes, yeah like I have.
There's a group of guys thatcome over to my house every
other friday morning.
Michael's in that group ofpeople cool and like.
That's when I feel close to godand we're sitting around and
like talking about, hey, whatare the really good things that
god is doing in your life andhow do you need to be encouraged
?
Yeah, and like that communityand that it is a biblical

(17:29):
community, it is a scripturallyfocused and centered community,
is like that for me you know, Idon't know, yeah, yeah, if that
makes sense, or not.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
No, that makes sense.
Yeah, I don't.
I I would say I never reallyhave consistent rhythms at
events.
I always try to like havesomething.
There are some events whereit's like super consistent.
It might be like right before Igo to bed, which is typically
the easiest time to be able todo it.

(18:03):
I'm not a morning person, so Idon't like having to wake up any
earlier than I, you know, haveto Um, but sometimes you know,
like I'll try, like I'll, I'll,I'll do it before I actually
leave, you know, the room or thedorm or you know wherever.
Um, this past summer, somethingthat I did, um, as often as I
could.
It was not always feasible, butthis was something I actually
really, really enjoyed doing.
Um, you know, of course we weregoing through Psalm 23.
And every opportunity that Ihad I would try at least once

(18:30):
during whatever week, I wouldtry and go by myself somewhere,
like in nature, that was likenear the event to read Psalm 23
and, you know, maybe read otherscripture and spend time
journaling and in prayer.
So I did it one week inCalifornia, where I went all the

(18:51):
way out, I think, to LagunaBeach, oh wow, and just found a
trail that's a little bit downfrom where Laguna Beach proper
is and just sat on a bench thatoverlooked the shoreline.
It was pretty cool, that'sreally cool.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
um, and then one time in pennsylvania just found this
like I had to walk throughsomebody's backyard to get here,
so you know, maybe it was fineum but like I thought you were
gonna say maybe it wastrespassing it was like it
definitely was.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
I mean it was he's like it's good.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
But, like I found, you know, there was this like
overlook in the woods that justlike was sitting on top of like
a valley that I was able to sitand, you know, read Psalm 23
there and yeah, it was just.
It was something that wasalways so encouraging and
refreshing, and getting to readscripture and especially
scripture that's intended to beso restful, in a place that also
was restful.
It was just a.
It was a unique experience.
I don't get to do it all thetime.
I and I I want to try and dosomething like that more

(20:00):
regularly.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
That's really cool.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Unfortunately, Joplin is not like Laguna Beach Joplin
is not like Laguna Beach orlike the Appalachia, no, but we
have good sunsets.
We have good sunsets, sometimes, sometimes.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Every once in a while we sure do Every once in a
while.
A nice sunset, and you knowwhat the horizon in Joplin is
not much.
Yeah, it is not much.
Yeah, it's yep not much goingon.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh, it's a place.
Great question, Haley, that isa good question.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
That was a good you know we all kind of agreed but
disagreed in all our differentways and I loved it.
So, yeah, it was great.
Yeah, we're all different.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
I'm nervous about people hearing me of that, but I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
You gotta be honest.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
I know I know beyond this I know, be honest, the
event um is that it?
Yeah, okay, that's our mailbagquestion for the day.
Um, cory, yeah, thanks forbeing here.
I'm excited.
Uh, you want to talk to tom?
Let's talk to tommy, so gladthat you're here.

(21:05):
Thanks for hanging out.
You're one of my favoritepeople in the whole world.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
You say that to every person who's on here.
I literally know you.
We have a lot of favoritepeople, he does.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Have you listened to this podcast before?

Speaker 4 (21:19):
It sounds like he has .
I've listened to a few episodes.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
I do not say you are one of my favorite people in the
whole world.
To everyone.
Yes, you do I absolutely do not, but Michael.
Michael has been here for everyepisode of the last three
seasons.
Do I say that to everybody whocomes on With different words?
You say that to most everyoneLike.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Last time we had Tyler Lamel and that interview
started with.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Tyler Okay, bestie, I was the best man in Tyler's
wedding.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Okay, sure, that's actually a real one.
It is a real one.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Just because these happen to be back to back
episodes, whatever, I'm notgoing to defend myself.
Hey, listen, you're good.

Speaker 4 (22:02):
I appreciate the significance of that statement.
It's good to be in that companyof people, because I will say
this if you've said it to otherpeople, I'm sure they're really
cool people too, so you know.
So there you go.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
I only have cool people on this podcast, so there
you go.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Tom, you're not wrong , though.
We're not making we're notmaking a statement about people
who have not been on the podcast.
So there you go.
There you go, tom.
You're not wrong, though you'renot making we are not making a
statement about people who havenot been on the podcast.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
Right so for my teenage children who don't think
I'm cool.
This confirms the fact that youare in fact cool yeah, tom is
cool.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Um, I met uh tom in muncie, indiana, which is a town
that I never thought that Iwould ever go to.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
And then I did.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
And Muncie Indiana is not.
I mean, it's not great, it'sfine, you know, like it's a good
town.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
College town.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
It's a college town.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
There's some cool things, but it's like very
ordinary Indiana Like the jokeis that Jerry in Parks and Rec
has a vacation home in.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
Muncie, indiana, and that's like meant to be funny
because Muncie is like justwhatever.
Right.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Why would you have a vacation home in Muncie Indiana?
Why would you have a vacationhome in Muncie Indiana?
But, then you moved.
I went to a more obscure place,to a more obscure place than
Muncie Indiana.
I know.
Thank you, Lord.
So how'd you get from Muncie toFrench Lick?
I don't even know, actually, ifI know this whole story.
French Lick, Indiana, home ofthe great Larry Bird.

(23:34):
Yeah, the hick from.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
French Lick.
There you go, which my wifesaid.
When I proposed the idea ofgoing to French Lick Indiana,
she said I'm not moving toFrench Lick.
What am I going to be?
A French licker, like you know.
So, hey, this is a family show.
Yeah, no doubt.
But I guess, to spare you allthe agonizing details, the gist

(24:07):
was that my wife and I kind offelt the spirit of God saying
that it was time for us to trusthim in a new season and so, in
one of the worst possible times,to try and buy and sell a house
.
We sold our house during COVIDand said Lord, our house is sold
, where do you want us to go?
And he said French LickIndianaiana.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Amazing so so you sold your house and everything
before knowing about french lick, correct, okay, wow, yes, so
you moved to french, yeah, andyou know, I mean I had I had
some, I had some really goodfriends in my life.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
um shout out to Pete Coco no relation to Glenn Coco
no.
But my point is they were kindof confirming these suspicions.
Because I was like, hey, youknow, because at that time, if I
do some math, my kids weresixth grade, fourth grade and

(25:00):
kindergarten first grade ormaybe fifth, third kindergarten,
whatever and my biggest concernwith uprooting my family
because we never thought we'dever leave Muncie was I don't
want this to be a selfish reasonfor me to move, because I don't
want my kids to have to sufferjust because dad wants a new gig

(25:24):
or you know whatever, whateverthat looks like.
And so I had people in my lifethat we were praying like is
this the right move?
You know, it's not like.
It's not like overnight we justput our house up for sale.
I actually had kind of a visionof I don't know why.
I was in worship one day and Isaw a for sale sign in my yard

(25:46):
and I in my mind, and I didn'tknow what that meant, I'm like
that's really weird.
Never thought I'd sell my house, uh, and it kind of went from
there and in a time span ofprobably nine months from that
kind of Holy cow, are you forreal?
We, our house was sold.
It sold in two days because wesold it during that COVID time

(26:07):
when, like, houses started goingstupid yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
And um interest rates were 2% or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, that was fun.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
Then we got into a house on the other side.
I don't know if this is afinancial management seminar,
but in some ways it actually isyeah, so kudos to me.
Yeah, there you go, but yeah,so that that's how we ended up
in French Lick and I just I hadmet the elders of this church,

(26:37):
um, through actually a collegewebsite.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
They were saying that they needed a pastor and I was
like, maybe and we met and yeahso that's how we ended up in
french, and the rest is history.
And uh, you work on a greatteam there, lots of wonderful
co-workers who we all know andlove, right, actually?

Speaker 4 (26:59):
you caught me in the middle of a staff meeting.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, with just you and you um, everyone's here, uh,
so you work.
I.
I want to kind of recap thisagain work at a church by
yourself.
There, there is nobody on staffat the church you attend.
Besides you full-time,part-time or otherwise tom is

(27:23):
the employee and we are havingyou on a podcast about growth,
because this is insane two yearsago, you brought 20 people to
move four years ago we boughtthree.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
That was our first move event from French Lick
Right Me, my son and one of oureldest daughters.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Okay, and that's not actually even in our database,
because you attended withanother church.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
No, that's right.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
So four years ago you brought three.
Three years ago you brought 20people.
Last year you more than doubledthat total and brought 49
people to move.
Last year you more than doubledthat total and brought 49
people to move, and this yearyou were registered to bring 60
people to move from a churchthat has one full-time staff
member does not have a buildingmeets in, if I remember

(28:13):
correctly, a movie theater Isthat right.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
We used to meet in the movie theater.
We meet in high schoolauditorium now.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Very good which is really cool.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
I actually love that.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, has that been a good move.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
It really has been good.
You know, I think, I think Ithink all the youth pastors, uh,
and youth workers that watchthis show can relate to the fact
that one of the struggles thatwe all have as people, but
students specifically have, isbeing different people in
different places.
You know, like, hey, I can bethis kid in youth group, I can

(28:45):
be this kid at home, I can bethis kid on the football team,
and it's like, as long as theyall don't find out, right, don't
want pastor, you know, youthpastor to find out.
You know that this is the way Italk around these set of
friends, and I think there'ssomething that is cool about the
fact that these students showup and worship at their school.

(29:06):
Yeah, on a Sunday, yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
At least that's the way I look at it.
I think it's pretty unique Forsure.
Yeah, that is cool.
How long have you guys beendoing that?
That's been a little over a year.
A little over a year Okay, verygood.
A year A year Okay, very good.
So, as you've grown, theconversation that we want to

(29:33):
have is about money financialplanning seminar, if you will,
because budgets are hard andmost people who are in ministry,
budgets are kind of a difficultthing for them.
And I think budgets are evenharder when you're kind of like
holding on to God's coattailsand just like experiencing the
kind of crazy growth that you'reexperiencing, at least within
the youth ministry at yourchurch and, I think, at the
church overall.

(29:55):
So it's like if you under budget, like if you shoot low, if you
aim really, really conservative,then it's possible that you
might not be able to do all ofthe things that you would want
to do for all of the studentswho show up to your ministry.
If you over budget, if you kindof get ahead, put the cart
before the horse a little bit,then it's possible that you
might not end up being able toafford some of the things that

(30:18):
you were planning to do or getyourself in a little bit of a
bind and, um, you know, one ofthe reasons I wanted to have you
on here is because I think you,like me, are a little bit of a,
a little bit of a renegade,maybe a little bit like know,

(30:38):
whatever kind of um you're,you're not the kind of guy who's
like extremely um you're.
You're not going to embedyourself in an Excel sheet on a
Monday afternoon, uh, and you'regoing to kind of like leave a
little bit of wiggle room and alittle bit of freedom for God to

(30:58):
do whatever he's going to do.
Has that?
Have you experienced frictionthere at all with, like, elders
or other people at your church,or do you feel like they're kind
of all on board.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
You know, it's kind of interesting.
Like one of the you know, Iguess maybe a lot of us were
feeling this way during COVID,when the world was like blowing
up, that there were things goingon in the church that weren't
working, like big c church, likeand, and so I guess when I came
down here, I came down here.
The reason I guess the reason Iwas attracted to a church

(31:31):
without a building, is because Iwanted to go someplace and and
and there's not.
It's not all positive, it's allnet positive to not like, not
have a building and not be longyou know, long established.
I mean, obviously there's allnet positive to not have a
building and not be longestablished.
I mean obviously there's a lotof benefit to having a very

(31:56):
established church community.
I didn't really feel like theyhad a lot of like there weren't
things that I had to tear downbecause I wanted to build
something new.
You know what I mean?
It was just like, hey, we'reready for the new thing, and

(32:16):
that was I guess that was whatGod really kind of laid on my
heart when we made the move islike, god, do you want something
different?
Yeah, you know, like, and Iguess at that time and still to
some degree, I'm convinced thathe does, other than when you're

(32:41):
dealing with a small community.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Sometimes it's difficult for them to think
bigger, small community in yourchurch or in like the
surrounding community?

Speaker 4 (32:56):
Yes, yes and yes you know, because this is a very
rooted community.
It's not a transient communitywhatsoever.
You know, when we came in itwas like hey, who are the new
people?

Speaker 1 (33:09):
you know, like it's not, like there's a military or
something taking people in andout right, you know, right it's
not

Speaker 4 (33:15):
like.
It's not like, oh, it's justanother person who decided to
move to french Lick becauseeverybody wants to move to
French Lick, you know, and so,and so the I guess the only
friction is is like is ourvision, does our vision match,
you know, god's vision as itpertains to size?

(33:35):
Or are we limited because wethink, oh well, that's just the
way we do things at this church?

Speaker 1 (33:43):
You know what I mean, so I don't want to put words in
your mouth by any means.
So it sounds like the kind ofimagery that popped into my mind
is, when you came in torestoration, there weren't a lot
of sacred cows, there wasn't alot of culture or cultural
battle that needed to be fought.
It was just like kind of a blankslate and you and the elders

(34:07):
are walking in step um towardwhatever the vision is.
So it sounds like.
Maybe the friction then is thatthe vision.
Uh, it's harder to catch alarger vision for people who
live in a small community andattend a smaller church.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
Right, because in some and I think this is true in
all cases but we already havein our mind, when it comes to
any situation, what's possible.
And so when you are saying,okay, god, you're sending him
here because you want somethingnew, what that means is, god,

(34:48):
you want to see something happenthat has not happened before in
this community.
And so, therefore, it's like,how do you get people to believe
that that's possible?
And I mean, I think that's, Ithink that's the challenge for
any pastor of a church or youthpastor, because it's like you
come in and you're like, hey, Iwant to, I don't want to just do

(35:10):
status quo, like you know, andwhether that looks like growth,
whether that looks likecommunity engagement, whether
that looks like, you know, youknow missional goals or whatever
it is, you you have to.
You have to figure out how toincrease people's imagination on
what is possible.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
For sure, that's the job of the prophet, right?

Speaker 4 (35:32):
It's like right To write that picture, yeah and so
and so you know there are someyou know and and I think every
environment has, you know thingsthat are kind of cultural norms
, and so it's like, okay, how dowe break out of those and trust
God for something?

Speaker 1 (35:51):
bigger budgeting and money and the ways that that
impacts growth and the ways thatwe respond to growth.
When it comes to money, I kindof want to start by maybe doing
a little bit of a case studykind of thing.
So you're in the middle of aseason of growth which you have

(36:14):
been in basically the entiretime you've been at restoration.
Um, what are the money like?
What are the pinch points rightnow?
What are the conversations,what are the difficult things
when it comes to how you budgetalongside the growth of your
church and even like playinginto that what we were talking

(36:35):
about with the competing visionsa little bit I think, I think
the biggest thing, and I thinkinitially, and I think it first
of all, I think, as it relatesto budgeting for ciy, um it,

(36:56):
it's expensive for a family, ohyeah, sure especially when you
start having multiple kidswanting to go and

Speaker 4 (37:02):
all that kind of stuff.
It's not, it's not cheap, andso I think and again, people
feel a certain way about anevent.
You know what I mean, becausepeople who haven't been there
don't understand what reallyhappens in that five days.

(37:23):
So when I think about theconversations that happen,
initially I think it wasconvincing families that in a,
in a community that did not have, like I didn't want, like I
know, a lot of youth pastorswalk into a community and it's

(37:45):
like, oh, there's this groupthat meets over here, there's
this youth group over here atthis church and there's this
youth group and there's this.
Walk into a community wherethere is no youth group.
Okay, so there haven't beenkids going to youth camp, there
haven't been.
So there haven't been kidsgoing to youth camp, there

(38:06):
haven't been.
And so budgeting as astandpoint for CIY really
started with trying to convincefamilies that it was worth it,
both time and money, and thenconvincing volunteers that they
should take a week off work tocome and be a part of something
called CIY with students.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, so were you asking students to foot the
entire bill for going, or wereyou able to like, build, like?
How did that all work?

Speaker 4 (38:36):
Well, I think you know it's hard because you know,
when you, when any youth pastorsays, hey, we're going to go to
CIY, Right, and maybe there arethose churches out there that
are like, no, you just go getthe kids and we'll pay for it,
and I and I don't, I don't thinkthat was the environment that

(38:58):
we are in.
So it's like you've got to listsome sort of price tag and then
I think you know as being evenremembering my days in Muncie as
a youth pastor.
It's like, well, you want tolet people know that there's
financial assistance available,but you don't want to advertise
it because you don't want peoplethat don't need to use it use

(39:19):
it when they could pay for thattrip themselves.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
But you also don't want somebody to not go because
they can't afford it, and so theconversations for us have
always been, especially for me.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Whenever we tell people about CIY, you tell them
all the great reasons why theyshould go, what it's going to be
like, and then you say, oh, andhere's what it's cost.
But money shouldn't be thereason that you don't go.
You know, yeah, and so thatthose conversations were having

(39:52):
were happening.
You know, initially I wouldn'tsay that there was any friction
or pushback from our elder team.
I think it was more of thestudents going what Do I want?
To spend a week at church camp,like I don't know, that is not
something I'm a familiar with.
I don't have a lot of friendsthat are telling me about

(40:14):
experiences that they had atchurch camp.
And oh, there's a church campdown the road that I went to as
a kid, so why don't we just gothere?
That was really like really doyou need to take kids to Lee
university?
We have a camp near us and it'slike, well, this is different,
right, yeah, you know this isdifferent.

(40:36):
And so initially I think allthose conversations we're having
, but now I think our communityin particular is seeing the
results of how powerful a weeklong experience can be, and I
don't even think they questionit now.
Yeah, but I do know that lastyear because we also I mean, I

(41:03):
think I'd have to double checkorange county is like the third
poorest county in indiana, sowe're also not a very affluent
community and we also aren't ina habit of paying for a lot of

(41:27):
things as a church, if thatmakes sense.
We don't have a mortgagepayment, we don't have a huge
light bill and huge staff costs.
You know, we're used to notreally having to front very many
bills.
If that makes sense, yeah, andso I know last year when I I

(41:50):
thought, oh my goodness, we'regonna go from like 14 students
to 48 students.
I wonder how many of thosestudents aren't gonna be able to
afford to pay.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, when did that grow?
Where did that come from?
Was that like students comingback telling friends and
bringing them?
Or was it that the church wasattracting a lot more families
and they like where did all ofthese people come from?

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Honestly, for us in our community it really started
with myself and another ladyfrom our church who's pretty
influential in our youthcommunity.
We started getting involved inFCA and we saw a huge uptick in

(42:41):
FCA numbers.
Like we have graduating classesof around 60 to 70 here at
Springs Valley and we have wellover 100 students every week
coming to FCA.
And so I think a lot of thatand also, like when we came to

(43:03):
French Lick, my kids knew whatlike a happening youth group
looked like Sure, and theydidn't see it when they got here
and they were disappointedBecause when we got here my son
was just getting into sixthgrade and that was like now I

(43:23):
can stop being the youthpastor's kid and I can show up
to youth group.
And then when we got here it waslike, oh, what youth group you
know, looking around and seeingthree students.
So I think my kids played apretty influential part in that
because they were champions ofCIY already before they even
ever went to CIY, because theyhad been jealously watching all
these cool kids in our churchthat they looked up to get to go

(43:44):
to CIY, and so I think they'vebeen a huge part of spreading
the word and saying, hey, thisis something that's important,
and in a small community likeours it just kind of caught fire
Are a lot of the kids thatyou're bringing, students who
don't regularly attendrestoration.

(44:04):
I would say a lot of them do now.
Okay, I mean, there's like Idon't know, it's so crazy Like
in our little community there'slike 55 churches, but most of
them are like 12 people Right,yeah, and most of them have the
same last name that show up tochurch, right, and so biblical

(44:30):
literacy is very low in ourcommunity with students.
And so I think there's agenuineness that they feel from
the gospel that in somecommunities where it's like,

(44:50):
well, I've been invited to 95youth groups and 95 youth events
my whole life and I'm around itall the time, that's not the
situation here at all, yeah, andso I think there was a
genuineness.
And then you know how it iswhen you go to CIY and you feel

(45:11):
Christian community for maybethe first time.
It's like this isn't real,right, and so I think we have a
lot of students feeling that.
I think we have a lot ofstudents feeling that.
And then, and then we have avery low control, uh, high
support model of youth ministryin French lick Like we don't

(45:32):
have youth group that meetsevery single week.
We got a Bible study that meetson Thursday mornings.
We rely very heavily on hey,you should be at FCA, because
that's your and and and it's not, it's not our meeting, it's not
our, it's their thing, yeah.
And so I think you have a lotof students who are like man,

(45:56):
this is my thing, yeah, likethis is my time, like I want,
yeah.
And so there's been a.
There's been a high level ofownership amongst our students
and I've done less work tocreate that than when I was
spinning my wheels for 12 yearstrying to figure out how to go
from 18 students to 25 students.

(46:17):
You know what I mean Like um,so yeah, so now it's.
But I do remember, like, as faras budgeting is concerned, I
remember when we made thatreally big jump two years ago, I
was like how many of thesestudents are not going to be
able to afford a thing?
Because I had student afterstudent telling me I want to go
to CYY, I want to go to CYY, Iwant to go to CYY, and then it's

(46:39):
like I don't even know who yourparents are.
I want to go to CY, and thenit's like I don't even know who
your parents are.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Like, do you have like?
Do you live with your parents?
What's the situation?

Speaker 4 (46:47):
Right, like and so.
But I think then we had againand it was kind of that perfect
storm, because I told you, wedon't write a lot of checks for
a lot of things as a churchcommunity.
So when our church, when ourfaithful church body, saw all
these young people showing upand wanting to worship with
hands raised and wanting to beat church and wanting to, you

(47:08):
know, in a community where Ithink most churches are going
well, why do young people notlove God anymore?
Why don't they want to come tochurch?
We kind of have this oppositeproblem where we have a lot of
mouths to feed and very fewpeople that are going to work.
You know like, and but I but Ithink our faithful community saw
that and I didn't have to worrybecause you know how it is when

(47:32):
you go to high volume ciyevents.
Now that down payment isnon-refundable.
And I've always told my elders,whenever we go and I'm like,
gosh, should I register for 60for CIY this year If we have to
scale back from that number, theconversation I always have with
my elders is, yeah, thisdeposit's non-refundable, but if

(47:53):
we don't get some of this moneyback, at least we know it's
going to an amazing organizationthat we would support
financially anyways.
So that's kind of the way I'vesold the non-refundable deposit
to our elders is.
Let's just look at this If wedon't end up taking 60 people
and we take 50 and we don't getthat, let's just look at this as

(48:17):
a way of financially supportingsome brothers and sisters in
Christ who are doing someamazing things that we want to
get behind anyways.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Well, that's super encouraging for me to hear.
Obviously, so were you going tosay something?

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Yeah, I was going to say, tommy, you mentioned
earlier about students takingownership and like, after the
years you guys have been comingfor a few years now from your
church, do you, just off the topof your head, have stories when
you think of students, whetherpreteen, middle school, high
school, of ways maybe thatthey've been with their friends
fundraising, like we talk aboutbudgets and how you're able to

(48:50):
maybe help students who can't go?
But are there students in yourcommunity who've gone to these
events who are like, hey, we'regoing to make this happen.
Like, what are ways they'veused their gifts, their talents
and abilities that you've seen?

Speaker 4 (49:03):
I know that several of our students this year got
that card this past year aboutraising money for 10 students to
go to ciy.
That's awesome and you're overin the corner, like yes, they're
like I know, I know, off thetop of my head, there was,
there's, there's one uh younglady named uh Maddie that got a

(49:26):
t-shirt.
I don't even know what it lookslike, I should go over to her
living room and see it but shegot a t-shirt press and so she
made all the fields of faithshirts.
No way, Um, and and she has inher mind that that is something
that she's going to start doing.
I'm making t-shirt, christiant-shirts to to raise uh funds

(49:48):
for that way.
But I will say it's kind offunny because we had fields of
faith three, three weeks ago andwe did it in the basketball
arena and the house that Birdbuilt.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
It was awesome.
By the way, there's a statueright.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
We had like five students leading worship.
I was up there just playingguitar.
They were leading the singing.
It was unbelievable.
I mean it really was.
I mean there was well over 150,200 students there like just
worshiping.
I don't know, it was amazing.
But there was like ninespeakers, okay nine students

(50:33):
that got up and at one point myfriend, who happens to be the
football coach that goes to ourchurch.
We're standing up top listeningto all these testimonies about
life change, about addictionsthat are falling away.
Students are up there likeliterally confessing, like their
parents are there and they'resaying things.
I'm like whoa, dude, you don'thave to be that honest, but they

(50:53):
are.
They're like.
I'm telling you like it wascrazy, but the football coach
leaned over to me during theevent.
He goes every time one of thesestudents mentioned ciy to ciy
pay you no.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
But it's crazy because yeah, I just want to be
really clear for everyonelistening that that is zero
dollars.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
There's no NIL deals.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
There are no affiliate links, no affiliate
links, but I think again, it'slike I've got kids that don't
even go to church, that are likeelbowing me at basketball games
and going I want to go to CIYand I'm like you don't even know
what CIY is.
Great.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
But they want to go yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
And so, more than just fundraising, I think our
students have taken ownershipand saying this is their thing.
Now, like it's no longer mything.
And now I'm kind of wrestlingwith like uh, okay, so that
other pastor wants to go andlike again, it's, it's okay.

(52:14):
Like god, this is your thingthis is not our thing and this
is not.
This is also not a tool thatwe're trying to use to grow our
church.
This is just, we know, anawesome tool for our students to
feel that call to kingdom work.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Uh, you know, because that's like for us, the super
important piece is connectingthat heart for kingdom work back
to the mission of the church.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
So so I think COI considers it a huge win if, like
local churches grow because ofwhat they're experiencing at
Superstart and it makes themmove, which is just yeah, but it
sounds really I think too, likeI think probably the most
important thing for me in ourcommunity is helping people find
missional clarity for their ownlife.

(53:02):
Yeah, and that's where I saysometimes I feel like I shoot
myself in the foot because I'mconstantly telling people that
they should go out instead ofrecruiting people to help us out
.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
You know what I?

Speaker 4 (53:14):
mean and I probably, you know like we joked around
about being a staff of one, butyou know I could probably do a
better job, you know, in thatarea.
But I will say too, it's notslowing down.
I mean we have a.
We have a fourth grade girl whoactually snuck into superstar
last year as a third grader,breaking the rules.
Let's go.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Cover your ears, Corey.
No, I'm listening.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
She started a nonprofit that she's provided
hundreds of people at nursinghomes to receive electronic pets
let's go, that's amazing andelectronic birds and baby dolls,

(54:02):
and because her grandma lastyear and her grant.
Well, it started with hergrandpa.
Her grandpa passed away alittle over a year ago and he
was in a nursing home and shefound out that these pets help

(54:22):
fight against loneliness and anarray of other things and she's
like we can do this and they arein like I don't know like six
nursing homes.
And she's been on the localnews in Louisville and I mean,
and she started this whole thingcalled Evelyn's Blessings and

(54:46):
that girl evangelizes in herschool.
Yeah, like, like crazy.
And so that's what we havecoming down the pipe.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
And so you know, for me I'm just like Is she going to
be at Superstar with you thisyear?

Speaker 4 (54:58):
She will be at Superstar this year.
Yeah, Make sure that I meet her, okay, yeah for sure Brad will
be there.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Yeah, for sure, that's so cool.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
So, you know, I think that for me and I think it also
helps too, like I've never beenin this season where I have two
high schools well, middleschool eighth grader and 10th
grader in my own home, and I'mlike, if they don't figure out
how to make this faith their ownbefore they leave this house,
I'm a little worried, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I mean yeah, totally.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
And so I think I'm in a season of my life where,
being a single staff person, Ican't I can't control everything
, because there's only so manyquote unquote programs that we
can dream that you see, like, gomake it happen.
Like you know, I'll pray foryou and I think our students

(55:57):
have just caught that vibe and,and I don't know, it just kind
of took off so cool and I reallywondered is 60 enough?
Like I?
I see that I saw that LeeUniversity is almost full and
there's been several days in thelast week where I'm like, do I
need to go register 10 morepeople?
Maybe I should just do that.

(56:18):
Maybe I just go do that,because I, I fear I fear more of
telling that student who wantsto go that we're out of spots.
Yeah, then I do, figuring outhow to come up with a hundred
dollars, right, yeah, right, butyou, know, yeah, kind of.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
But also as you grow, I feel like that dollar amount
that it costs to add a studentbecomes more and more so like
are you?
Well are you are you forkingover a hundred dollars for every
student that goes to move, orwhatever is that?

Speaker 4 (56:53):
you mean like as a church, or you mean me, yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
No, you Tom.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Yeah, taking money out of that extra pillowcase.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
So we did a Google form here, trying to do a little
better job, because one of thethings I've been horrible at I
mean October comes quick.
By the way, it's really hard tosell family members about a
July event in October, by theway.
And I know CY knows this- and Iknow you don't have any control
over it because you have to havenumbers.
You've got to know.
I've always done probably areally poor job of that

(57:29):
pre-registration yeah, this yearwe did a Google form
registration yeah, this year wedid a Google form and on it
instead of in the past, I thinkwhenever I've done things like
this, I've just kind of put thatthing out there, like, will you
be requiring financialassistance?
And this time I actually wentinto greater detail.
I said will you need?
Uh?

(57:50):
I basically broke it up andsaid, hey, will you need 25% of
your fee covered?
I basically broke it up andsaid, hey, will you need 25% of
your fee covered?
Will you need 50%?
Will you need 75% or will youneed 100?
Because we're actually chargingstudents $500 a piece because,
by the way, it's expensive.
This is the first time lastyear we've ever had to get a
charter bus.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, those things are not cheap.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
If anybody knows like got the hookup on how that
should not be like.
Like it cost us 10 grand, justin travel costs, to bring kids
to Lee University from FrenchLick and back yeah, and then
we're at the event withouttransportation.
We have a vehicle or twovehicles from sponsors, but

(58:33):
that's really expensive.
So we're actually chargingstudents $500 a piece to go to
CIY this year.
But one of the huge blessingsand I know this will be
particularly relevant for peoplein Indiana and there might be
organizations in other statesbut there's an organization

(58:54):
called the Center forCongregations and we applied for
and received a $25,000 matchinggrant to educate under the
umbrella of congregationaleducation.
So, like, everything we spentthe money on had to be in an

(59:17):
effort to increasing biblicalliteracy within our congregation
, and so all of our expenses,travel and all those
registrations that we had tohelp out with as a church fell
within that matching grant.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
So we had a $25,000.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
What's that?
So we had a $25,000 assistanceand we spent all $25,000 of that
money and matched 2750 as acongregation to take our
students to CY.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
So does the October registration thing like?
To me it almost sounds likethat would help with budgeting a
little bit, because it's likeyou're getting a
pre-registration from all ofyour students.
They're telling you or theirfamilies are telling you, hey, I
think we're going to need Xamount of assistance, and then
you're able to like budget forthat for the following right

(01:00:17):
calendar year it was less, itwas, it was it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
It provided more clarity, which really helped
because, like right away and I,you know, I just had a qr code
that I kind of let loose at theschool and just had students
start, you know, signing up andlike telling us who their
guardians are and you know phonenumbers and that kind of thing
and I think within the firstweek we had like 52 students

(01:00:46):
that said they were going and ofthose 52, I think there were
like six that needed fullfinancial assistance, and so it
was definitely very helpfulbecause in my mind I was like,
oh my gosh, are 25 of thesestudents gonna need us to cover
all right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
yeah, cost for ciy and then I'm really bad at what
would happen if they did.
What if 25 people were like weneed you to pay for for move?
I think we would just take them, you just pay, pay for it and a
lot of like running yeah I meanand I guess maybe that's the
benefit of not being a superestablished.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
Like I said, we're not writing checks for a lot,
and the impact that our faithcommunity has seen from CIY has
blown people's minds, so I thinkI have a blank check to write
now as it pertains to summercamp at CIY would that be a

(01:01:55):
conversation with your elders,like, hey, I need however much.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, I mean, there's one elder in particular.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
Well, there's one elder in particular that handles
our finances.
And so I called him like twodays before event registration
and said hey, I'm about tocommit to $90,000.
Like, what do you think aboutthat?

(01:02:26):
You know, like it's not quite,it's not that.
Well, we registered 90 peopleat $500 a pop, so $45,000.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
And have you registered for Superstar yet?
We have not yet Come on.
Hey, Fortunately that eventdoesn't fill up as quickly.

Speaker 4 (01:02:46):
Corey's right here.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
man, we got you know I'm right here, it's okay.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
I saw your posts.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
I saw your posts about it.
I see you're excited.
You can check out our Facebookpage, bro.
We posts about it.
You can check out our Facebookpage, bro, we just put out the
event for Superstar.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
I've got some 5th grade teachers.
My wife is an aide in the 5thgrade classroom and our
children's administrator,Jennifer Hill.
She runs all of our children'sprogramming on Sunday morning.
She's crazy, Her daughter's ona volunteer basis.
Wow, she is, she's crazy.

(01:03:21):
So we, yeah, we always.
We will have a big group atsuperstart this year.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
I love it.
I love it so much.
That was going somewhere and Ican't really remember where it
was.
Oh, yeah, you're not like whenyou first register for Move Mix,
though you're not on the hookfor $500 a person.

Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
No, you're not, Is what I'm saying?
No, you're not, no, you're not.
But anyway, how does that?

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
conversation go is what I'm trying to ask.
Like, when you say I'm on thehook for this, is he like do no?

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
no, it goes, it goes well, because I think, as a
faith community like I just andI don't know if it's this way in
all places, but around hereit's like people are so
surprised by students that wantto be involved in their faith,

(01:04:19):
like they're pleasantlysurprised.
Yeah, you know what I mean, andso it's a really.
It's a really.
But I'm also not that youthpastor that's constantly saying,
hey, we'd like to buy five newflat screen TVs for our youth
room.
So I'm not competing and I knowthat's a real deal Like a youth

(01:04:42):
pastor is budgeting for thewhole year and camp is part of
that budget, and so when wealready asked for an upgrade to
our youth room, thatconversation hits a little
differently for us.
I think we're so lean andnimble that it's like, hey, this
is something we do and it'sjust going to be something we
continue to do and we'll figureit out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
But there's a lesson in that and like being simple
and having the flexibility tothen invest in whatever those
high priorities.
Are that really truly kind ofdrive the mission of the
ministry?
That's encouraging, I don'tknow.
Yeah, yeah, corey, this man hasabout six full-time jobs.

(01:05:25):
Yeah, that's crazy, so I thinkI'm ready to let him go.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Well, I was just going to say do you have
anything?

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
else.
Well, I was just thinking, youknow, as we're closing this out,
man, a pleasure getting to hearfrom you and get to know your
heart.
But I talk to a lot ofministers who are children's and
youth pastors.
But yeah, you talked about sixhats, brad man, like just
briefly, can you just share likewhat it's like, as we close
this out, to not only beministering to children's and

(01:05:54):
youth, but like to children andyouth but to adults and to the
whole body.
Of course, that comes from God,who's instilled in your heart
to do this.
But, man, what do you loveabout your job and doing that?
I just want to hear about that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:08):
So I probably preach 45 weeks out of the year.
Yeah, sunday mornings.
Uh, sunday Sunday I'm in a golftournament.
Yeah, daddy, daddy, daddy daddy, daddy daddy, daddy, daddy,
daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy,daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy,
daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy,daddy.

(01:06:29):
I have a high school student, asenior, Graydon McGee.
This will be the third time,and he's been a Christian for
like seven months.
This will be the third timehe's filled the pulpit for me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Wow, that's really cool.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
And so last night he was sitting in my office and
we're just like jiving over, youknow office, and we're just
like jiving over, you know, thesermon this Sunday is about man.
If God is powerful, if God isall powerful, why wouldn't we
ask him for what we need?
And we were just like gettingexcited.
And it's so crazy because,again, this is a, this is a very

(01:07:17):
young individual, you know, a17 year old I'm, and I look at
him and like dude, are you, areyou ready for this?
He's like dude, I'm ready, I'mexcited, you know, and it's like
working with adults.
Sometimes it's like man, yougotta like, really like, hey,
you can do, this, you can do,and you have to baby them.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
What's that?
You have to baby them, right?
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
sure you know.
And so that's where I think I Iget excited, thinking okay,
something we're doing is working.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
yeah, and also like god god is providing, like a, in
a very unconventional way.
He's providing support aroundyou, um, where, like some youth
pastors, have a staff aroundthem to support them.
Right, your support is comingfrom all these people in your

(01:08:11):
faith community, including a.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
17 year old boy, not just youth leaders, but the
youth themselves.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
No, it is awesome.
It is awesome.
I love that man.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Well, tom, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Thanks for taking some time tohang out with us, and I just
love your heart, man.
I love it so much.
It's a it's.
It's really encouraging alwaysfor me to hear from you and just
how different you're you'redoing church than than so many
places around the country, and,uh, you're rolling your eyes at

(01:08:46):
me a little bit, but I meanthere's.

Speaker 4 (01:08:48):
I was like I don't again.
I still haven't figured it out.
I don't know if it's good, itdoesn't matter, never will.
I haven't figured it out.
I don't know if it's good, itdoesn't matter, never will.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Never will you put one foot in front of the other
and it's like you only got to befaithful to whatever the next
thing God calls you to is youknow what I?
Mean so um, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Well, you know, and I think too, I think it's really
important to be faithful, Likeone of the commitments that I've
made in my mind is to befaithful to a place and a group
of people, and in a smallcommunity like ours, that is so
important, cause I don't knowhow many times I heard in the
first few years that we werehere like, well, you won't be
here forever and I'm like dude,I'm not planning on going

(01:09:26):
anywhere, like I'm, like I'mhere, but it just, it just takes
a while.
Uh and, and you know, and justinvest I I, by the way, ci, why
you guys are incredible, likeyou really are, and I'm so
pumped to go back to leeuniversity this summer with

(01:09:48):
aaron pelso, I'm so pumped to goto, oh yeah, oh yeah, dude,
1600 people in a 1500 room, youknow like what?

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
yeah, that's pretty and that was gross.
Brad's excited to go back tolee as well.
I am, I always, I love going tolee and we don't go to the same
.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
Maybe there's some food upgrades on the horizon at
lee university is what Iwouldn't count on it here's the
mentality that I've learned toadopt.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
If I could pick anything about a week of move to
be your least favorite thingabout the week, I'm picking food
every time.
I'm picking food every time.
Because if food trumps theworship or the preaching and the
thing I'm like.
You know what, If everyone'sleast favorite thing is the food
, that's great by my estimation.
Now I have to eat that food fortwo weeks weeks, and that is

(01:10:37):
certainly a bummer for me.

Speaker 4 (01:10:39):
So yeah, it didn't help the 90 taco bell bill that
I got the first time, bro, yougotta go.
That wasn't in the churchbudget.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
You gotta go to cookout.
It's way cheaper.
Oh, here we go.
Yeah, yeah, all right, bro.
Well, love you, appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
Man, it was great.
Appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
Thanks guys, Appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Tom is one of the most authentic people that I
know and I just love thatconversation so much.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
It was great.
I love the different stories hebrought up, especially of
people in the youth group wherehe talked about students who are
fundraising, but also justhearing about the student who's
also preaching like three timesalready it's here's the thing is
tom has no like loyalty totradition.

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
Yeah, no I, I don't mean that in a bad way, I know
what you mean.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
Yeah, like yeah, in a really really pure way.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
he he's just like yeah, we're going to do the
things that God wants us to do,and it sounds really cool too
that it's not just him buthearing the eldership and in the
community of that church likeyeah, like we see what God is
doing through the church andwe're going to we're and of
course you see probably adultleaders also getting that,
because they see what God isdoing 100% and that's like when

(01:11:56):
you don't have a mortgage andyou don't have a huge staff bill
.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
It's like, man, we want to spend money on this and
the eldership says, yeah, that'ssuper in line with our mission,
so you can spend money on that.
That's really cool.
It's really cool.
It's been a great conversation.
Corey, I'm going to have you ifyou would close us out by
praying our blessing over ourlisteners.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
I would love to.
May God show you grace andbless you.
May he make his face shine onyou.
May you experience the love ofChrist, through whom God gives
you fullness of life.
May you be strengthened by hispower, and may Christ himself
make his home in your heart,that you would be full of his
love and grace and that thoseyou serve would see Jesus in you

(01:12:39):
.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Today's episode was produced by Michael Hester,
lauren Bryan and me.
Thank so much to Corey forbeing here and thank you also to
Tom two people who I just lovea lot and I'm glad we got to
have this conversation today.
We're going to be back in acouple of weeks to kind of wrap
this series up on how to scalefor growth.

(01:13:02):
We're going to be talking toanother really good friend of
mine who I promise I'm not goingto say is my favorite person of
all time.
I will not be saying that eventhough I might use different
words and also say it in adifferent way.
We'll see how it goes, but yeah, either way, it's going to be a

(01:13:24):
fun conversation, so be sure totune back in for that one.
If you like what you heard, besure to subscribe.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can also subscribe on
YouTube.
If you want to watch, go aheadand and smash that subscribe
button.
Love you guys, see you nexttime.

(01:13:46):
Peace, thank you.