BTE5.01 Topical vs. Exegetical: Part 1 with DJ Rodeffer and Lane Moss

Mailbag questions or topic suggestions? Text us!

What approach should you take when teaching in a post-Christian context? DJ Rodeffer, Youth Director at Collective Church in Frederick, Maryland, makes a compelling case for topical teaching in this thought-provoking conversation.

Speaking from his experience in one of America's most unchurched regions, DJ explains why topical teaching creates powerful entry points for students who've been burned by the church or have no religious background whatsoever. Rather than feeling like a compromise, his approach strategically addresses real-life issues while remaining firmly anchored in Scripture.

"We feel as if we're able to engage what's specifically going on in our kids' lives," DJ shares, describing how his team crafts series on everything from digital hygiene to mental health based on relationships with their students. This contextual sensitivity allows them to meet young people exactly where they are.

While DJ clearly leans topical, he emphasizes there's no ministry without a balance of both approaches. The conversation offers valuable perspective for any youth worker wondering how to effectively communicate timeless truth to a generation hungry for relevance and authenticity. Whether you're team topical, team exegetical, or somewhere in between, you'll find practical wisdom for your ministry context.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Brad Warren.
This is Beyond the Event, ayouth ministry podcast presented
by Christ in Youth, where wehelp you maintain momentum
between the mountaintops.
Our guest today is DJ Rotifer.
He's the youth director atCollective Church in Fredding
Maryland.
Dj and I are starting off ourconversation about topical
versus exegetical teaching todayand we're going to talk about
the topical side.

(00:24):
But first, before we do that,lane Moss is here.
Lane Brad, welcome.
Thank you so much.
It's a new dawn here at Christin Youth, a new day, season five
of the podcast.
Wouldn't want to start it withanybody else.
How you doing today, lane?
Awesome, good, super good.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Real hot outside, it's just so hot, but air
conditioned in here A little.
I mean a little.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, it's a little air conditioned Lane.
How was your summer?
It was really really good.
I knew you were going to saythat yeah, why?
How do you know that?
Because it's always good.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
It is always good.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Summer's the best.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Not without bumps and hurdles to jump, and and and
hurdles to jump.
But uh, but boy, we jump themwith joy, you know, and we just
and it was really, really greatMove.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Theme 2026, jump jumping with joy, jumping with
joy.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
It was awesome, actually.
Uh, it was a really, reallygreat summer.
There are a few things that um,as you know, know that make me
more excited and fill me withmore energy than being able to
hang out with, uh, with youngpeople and with youth workers,
um, and just like being a partof what they've been doing all
year long.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Getting to jump in on that for a week is just a total
joy yeah, rocks, it is you andcaleb both, and I know you do
this a little bit, but you andcaleb both have allowed me to
like go back to the same eventsover and over again and like see
the same people and it justfeels like a giant family
reunion and it's the best thingin the world.
I just love it so much.
It's pretty cool and we're ableto do that.

(01:56):
Yeah, yeah.
You go to Oregon every year.
How was Oregon Unbelievable Did?
You get your clam chowder Uh soI didn't get clam chowder.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Uh, so I didn't get clam chowder, but I did go to
the same like I go to the sameseafood place every year that
I'm out there out in newport.
It's called local ocean, yeah,and I got grilled.
I got tilapia with grilledpeaches and it was to die for
that sounds.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
It was amazing, really good actually.
It sounds pretty freakingawesome, yeah, producer.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Michael was with me.
Wait what?

Speaker 4 (02:26):
I didn't even know that.
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Guys, don't say that I have FOMO in reverse.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
Well, we had a terrible time.
Please don't say any.
That's what we'll say to you.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
No, inside jokes on the podcast okay, all right,
this one time.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
No no way past midnight.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
I can't, I can't, yeah, we stayed up way past
midnight because a sprinklerwent off in a dorm.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
If you're up way past midnight.
A move.
It's not for a good reason, nottypically.
No, it's not Um.
What is your?
The, the standout alternativeact that you saw this summer.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Oh sheesh.
You know I didn't actually seemuch alternative this summer.
Yeah, I know, I saw very littlealternative.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
We don't even have anything to talk about.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
What was the standout act?
You saw.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
The standout act I saw was a kid who he came out on
stage and they were doing thisthing.
They were doing like uh, likebreak dancing moves, but
obviously badly.
They were doing them badly.
And this kid and there's like atrack going in, the whole thing
and it's a whole thing and thekid like he, when I say he had
me, he had me he went to like doa move and he fell down and I
thought he was hurt and I waslike, oh no, we're gonna have to
call an ambulance because thiskid can't break dance.
And then he got me and he threwit back a little bit.

(03:55):
Yeah and that was crazy and Iwas like, oh no, it was like I
mean I went from, you know,because I went from like total
fear that like a child is hurton my watch, to like fear that
we all just witnessed somethingthat we didn't want to see.
Well, and listen.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
If the olympics have taught us anything, it's that
who knows what's good breakdancing you know he could be a
gold medal honestly breakdancing.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, we don't know we don't know who knows who's so
that's probably the one that,like, stands out the most, for
sure, um, there was also a groupof girls that, um, one of them
is a faithful listener to thispodcast uh, a group of of girls
that wrote a rap, sure, and didit.
A group of white women who wrotea rap and did it on stage b,

(04:44):
about their small group leaderwhose name is lauren yeah,
that's so they just wrote a raplike hyping her up it was very
cringy and very good andhilarious, and awesome, good, so
that wasn't during thealternative, but that was just a
funny thing but it is analternative act yeah no, when I
saw it I was like I wish therewas a two minute timer on this,
but guess what there wasn't.
Yeah, and so they blew rightpast that benchmark.

(05:08):
Well, do you have any funnystories you can share?
If not, from the alternative,anything awesome happen.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, Tons of stuff.
Boy, you put me on the spothere.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
I didn't what did you think we were going to talk
about?

Speaker 3 (05:18):
The stuff you told me we were going to talk about.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
We'll get to that.
You're good on your feet.
You'll be fine, we'll get tothat.
Okay, you're good on your feet.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
You'll be fine.
I need to think of.
I mean, several of the thingsthat like jump to mind
immediately are like are not potappropriate, you know.
So that's fair.
Yeah, you know, I don't know, Ihave to think about it.
Oh, we'll circle back.
You think about it, we'llcircle back, it'll be good.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, um, it was a good year move.
Thanks for letting me be a partof it.
It was wonderful.
I had fun, you had fun, Michaelhad fun.
Yeah, it's great.
Um, producer Lauren off.
Mike, here's the deal.
I want to tell you aboutsomething.
Here's what we're doing.
We are we're breaking newsright now.

(06:06):
Ok, yeah, we're killing themailbag.
Ok, the mailbag is dead.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Dead.
It's a serious.
Apologies, by the way, toMichelle Cruz and Tyler
Strickland.
Yeah, we just submitted ninequestions or something Michelle
did.
Michelle had like one.
Oh About like.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Here's the deal.
It's getting really hard topull questions out of people and
they're forcing it a little bit.
You can tell you know we'reforcing it a little bit.
It served a good purpose.
It's dead.
In its place I wanted tointroduce a few new like
segments of the podcast that aregoing to be fun, introduce a

(06:47):
few new like segments of thepodcast that are going to be fun
.
Um, so we'll do one.
I want to tell everyone thatwe're going to do one like right
after the interview, before thecredits, so the part of the
podcast that you normally skip,don't skip it, okay, yeah, at
least not until we get through afun segment that we're going to
do with lane, that's, we'realso going to do a segment.
Maybe this is a maybe calledstory time, which is, I would
love to hear, like Lane hereCan't come up with a single

(07:09):
story from the whole summer.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
So many, they're all All right.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Okay, then just tell the amalgamation of all of them.
So if if a great story happenedat Move or Mix or Superstart, I
want you to type it up in anemail to podcastcyycom.
Send it to us, we will read iton the air as written.
A very Ron Burgundy thing aboutme is that if it's on the
prompter, I'm going to say it.

(07:35):
If you send something topodcastcyycom a good story, a
funny story, something that youthink would be either
entertaining or edifying for ourlisteners please send it to me.
If you do, we'll read it on airand that'll be a segment as
well.
Right now, it's time for asegment that I'm very excited
about.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yeah, I have a story whenever you want one.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Oh okay, let's do that first.
Oh yeah, you want to do thatfirst.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , so this is weird because I
wasn't actually at this event,um, but it did, uh weirdly
involve my, uh, my son, yeah, uh, so, yeah, ledger, actually
ledger.
so canon and ledger were both atmove nebraska with our church,
with colchites and um, andledger was selected to be the
lucky charms kid so if you knowwhat that, is they were given a

(08:21):
lucky charms, told they hadtypically 24 hours, but ne, but
Nebraska, being an early end,had less than 24 hours to raise
as much money as possible.
Like, really truthfully, not alot of time.
Yeah, right, oh, yeah, very,very little, very little.
And so, uh, ledger, I was athome, I happened to be at home,
um, that that week, in thatThursday night that he was given
Lucky Charms box.
So he called me at about 10, 30, 10, 45.

(08:43):
Kelly, my wife, was asleep.
Ledger called me and said, hey,um, is it okay if I tell
everybody that if I raise $3,000, um, then I can shave my
eyebrows.
And I said, yeah, that's agreat story.
I was like, yeah, of course youcan do that, sure man.
I was like, yeah, let's rock.

(09:04):
And so he was like, okay, andso then, uh, and then I, and
then I completely forgot aboutit.
Well, um, I guess he had otherpeople from the, from our youth
group, jump in and be like, yeah, and if we raise this much,
I'll do it too.
And like the you know, as youknow, everybody gets a little
camp drunk and starts you knowyou make bad choices, yeah.

(09:30):
And so on, the like the parentsthread group me of.
Like the parents whose kids areat move from college, like the
parents said another mom thatthe following morning another
mom said please no shavingeyebrows which Kelly read.
And I was sitting on the couchand Kelly was at our kitchen
table and she said why do youthink just like table?
And she said why do you thinkjust like read it out.
And said why do you think shesaid that?
And I was like oh yeah, forgotto tell you.

(09:53):
I told Ledger that he couldshave his eyebrows if he right,
and Kelly said Kelly ever thelevel headed one in our home
said no, veto, we're not doingthat.
He has.
He has a job.
Apparently, they take like ayear to grow back.
I was like we'll be done withthis in two weeks, yeah, but
they make pencils, yeah, sure,sure.

(10:13):
She said.
She said no, uh, but he canshave his head.
And so, uh, and so ledger gotup I think that you know that
next morning and just said so Iwas going to shave my eyebrows.
My mom vetoed that, but I'llshave my head instead, and sure
enough, and they raised the cashand he shaved his head.

(10:34):
And then.
The cool thing about that,though, is that a couple weeks
later, we got to go to Ireland,to move in Ireland, and that
first adult leader meeting andmove in Ireland.
I was praying with a couplethere.
Kelly and I were praying with acouple, a guy named Tiago from
Brazil and his wife, and we werepraying for them, and we didn't
realize at the time, but oncewe, when we finished praying,
one of our, helen, who works forCY Europe, said oh hey, have

(10:57):
you met Tiago yet?
And we said yeah, and she saidTiago project y placement.
Oh, and we were like oh crazy,we had no idea.
And so ledger got to meet tiagoand got pictures with him and
stuff ledger with his shavedhead and this is not good radio,
but can you show me a pictureof that really?

Speaker 1 (11:10):
yeah, totally absolutely, yeah, totally can.
Uh, um, that is incredible.
Uh, it's a really good story.
I love ledger.
I'm glad he raised the money.
I had no doubt.
Oh my gosh, yeah, ledger isn'tthat awesome.
He looks like cannon.
Yeah, I don't know why, but helooks like so much more like
cannon with the shaved head.
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Thank you for sharing that story.
It's beautiful.
So story time is a segment thatwe'll do.
If you send stories, we'regoing to do another segment at
the end before the credits.
Don't skip that.
The segment we're going to doright now is called Mic'd Up
with Mike Mic'd.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Up with Mike, mic'd Up with Mike.
Here's what the-.
My first time hearing that.
Yeah, I can't wait for thejingle.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Can you write a jingle?

Speaker 4 (11:59):
Maybe I have done it before.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
For a segment featuring yourself.
Here's the impetus for this.
Michael valiantly facilitatedthe mailbag for many years and
we're killing the mailbag and Ithink that Michael is hilarious
and funny and insightful.
So basically what I toldMichael was hey, you, before we

(12:24):
do our interview, get to talkabout anything that you want,
you choose.
I have no idea what's comingright now.
It could be a pop culturereference from the Internet, it
could be a very meaningful storythat he has to share that we're
going to talk about, butbasically Michael gets to decide
what we're going to talk aboutfor a few minutes before we go
over to our conversation with DJ.

(12:45):
So, for the first everiteration of mic'd up, I'm going
to hand it over to Mike, whichI never call you that, but you
could.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
I could, if you want to.
Um, okay, I thought for a whileabout, uh, what I wanted to
talk about after Brad told methis was going to happen and I
said don't put me on the spotlike that.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
He literally said I don't want to do this.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
And I said too bad, yeah, boy man, and here we are,
runs a harsh ship.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
You know, I've thought this for a few years and
maybe, brad, you've even heardme say this before.
I'm of the opinion that Oceansdeserves a comeback.
Yep, oceans, the hillsong.
United track from oh, whatyou're like not the bodies of
water.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
12 yeah, I think oceans are doing fine.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah, there's a little plastic, but like sure,
or you know, if not a comeback,at least some respect.
Gosh darn darn it yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
So as we reflect on oceans, we reflect with fondness
and not with disdain.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
And occasionally, and occasionally when appropriate,
consider using it in a worshipset.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Here's my concern.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Yeah, tell me.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I'm going to tell you my concern.
So you have somebody, they'rean alcoholic, right, they drink
way too much, okay, and thenthey stop drinking, and then
you're like, okay, you can havea sip, okay, that could be fine
how are you comparing thesethings that?
Could go, that could go fine,or they could end up just like

(14:21):
way into it in a way that youdon't want them to be into it,
and I fear that that's whatworship leaders are going to do
with oceans.
No, and if we let them play it?

Speaker 4 (14:29):
once.
What kind of poll.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Do you think I have they're?

Speaker 4 (14:31):
going to play it every.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Sunday there were ocean holics.
There were For a time.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Here's this is the thing that I'm asking people to
consider.
Ok, okay, oceans.
To my knowledge, okay wasreally the first song that kind
of entered into this like spaceof like.
Oh, we've been singing thissong like every week for a while
.
Can we like please take a breakfrom this song?
After that, there have been somany more.

(14:59):
I can tell you two songs that I, if I'm still saved to be able
to say this, build my Life.
No, not that one.
Oh, okay, I'm so tired oflistening to Reckless Love and
Waymaker.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, but I feel like we don't like okay.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Those like those songs, like years after Oceans
had the same treatment thatOceans was given.
Yeah, but none of the, none ofthe disrespect that oceans
received and I'm not sayingthose songs deserve disrespect.
I'm saying oceans doesn'tdeserve the disrespect that they
got.
It's just that oceans was thefirst song that really kind of

(15:35):
gave us like worship songfatigue you know, sometimes,
sometimes things get fatiguedbecause they were such a good
thing.
Well, yeah, yeah, you know whatI mean, yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
So it's like you know I think one of you know here's
one of the things that didn'treally help with oceans a whole
lot is that you know thealternative didn't help with
oceans a lot.
No, it didn't.
We ended up with a lot ofoceans in the alternative.
Yep.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, it's like please stand and worship with me
while I play oceans on theukulele.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Well, listen, I, I, yeah, no, I I get it, yeah, okay
.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
I can get on board.
Yeah, so you're going to singit for us right now?

Speaker 4 (16:16):
No, you're not going to take us deeper.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Listen honestly, there may have been enough time
past that.
If somebody pulled out OceansSunday morning, I'd be like I'm
here for it.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
I think it would give me trauma.
I think it would give me PTSD.
That is quite the reaction.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Here's some of the things that I think Well, yeah,
some of the things that I thinkneed to be considered here.
You know, the two other songsthat I mentioned are extremely
flexible songs.
You know, like when you have asermon series with some like
pretty specific themes, likeit's pretty easy to just be like
oh, we don't have that manysongs that are like super

(17:03):
specific to what this is about,but Reckless Love and Waymaker
are easy to just throw in.
That's understandable.
Oceans does not have that kindof flexibility, at least
thematically speaking.
Oceans is really kind of abouta pretty specific thing.
Now.
I graduated high school and Iwent to my sister's graduation

(17:26):
in the same year when shegraduated from Ozark Christian
College.
I had just gotten accepted, Ireceived the email and
everything that said I wasaccepted into Ozark and all of
my stuff was basically in order.
The day that I was driving outthere to the graduation I went
to the baccalaureate servicethat they had the night before I

(17:46):
think the night before theactual like graduation ceremony,
and, um, there was a time ofworship during the baccalaureate
and they sang oceans.
I, when I had first pulled ontoOzarks campus, was like I don't
know if this is really what Iwant to do, Like, is this really
where I want to spend the nextlike four years?

Speaker 2 (18:04):
of my life.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
I spent the next six, but at the baccalaureate.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
No.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
At the baccalaureate when they sang Oceans, I was
like.
I was like you know what, likethis feels like an actual, like
step of faith.
Like I don't know what isreally down the road for the
next several years, but like Ican.
I think I can take the step andtrust that the Lord is going to
like lead me and carry me.
And like Oceans was a song thatlike, appropriately, was
applied in that moment to helpgive me a little bit of
certainty in a moment ofuncertainty.

(18:33):
That's the thematic use forOceans, yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
So it's like the baccalaureate song.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, like the baccalaureate anthem from Bible
colleges everywhere.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
It deserves a comeback at baccalaureate.
Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
For those of you programming baccalaureates out
there what I'm saying is, youknow, not every song needs to be
used in every circumstance.
And I'm not saying that Oceansdeserves to be used all the time
.
I'm saying where appropriate,it's a good song and it doesn't
deserve the disrespect that ithas still maintained over the
years.
I would agree with that theproblem.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
I think I might agree with you, but practically
speaking I don't know if it canactually make a comeback,
because it became a meme Becauseof the video of the drummer
going crazy.
Dreamoceans.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
You know what I mean.
Are you going to put that onhim?

Speaker 1 (19:22):
That poor guy, the weight of the legacy of this
entire song rests on theshoulders of this one guy just
worshiping with joy, speaking ofthe flexing in the streets
being the flexibility, I willbecome even more undignified
than this.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah, uh, which?
That's a song that could use acomeback.
Yeah, no joke, the speaking ofthe flexibility of reckless love
, to your point, it wasn't.
Did I?
Did I dream that Bieber didReckless Love at Coachella?

Speaker 4 (19:50):
It sounds like something that happened.
Let me take on my producerresponsibilities and look.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
That might be just like a weird.
If it's true, then it's alsotrue.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Or if it's not true, then it is true that I had a
dream about Justin Bieber true,or if it's not true, then it is
true that I had a dream aboutjustin bieber.
So um what?
The other song that did thiswas the.
I can't even think of what itis.
Now I feel like an idiot.
The sloppy white kiss thing.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, that's well.
Yeah, that's what everybody'sthinking about right now what's
the?

Speaker 1 (20:15):
what is the song, though?
Yeah, uh, how he loves how heloves.
Yeah, yes, was another one thatit's just like.
This is a pretty good song thatwe just beat into oblivion.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
Somebody did it at Move this summer, I think, and
it was great Really.
Yeah, it was great and itlanded See.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
I'm kind of in the boat that you're in with Oceans,
where it's like if I heard thatsong now, I think I would be
like, okay, I can vibe with thisyeah yeah.
Yeah, all right, did Bieber doit at Coachella.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
I'm not sure if he did it at Coachella.
I think he did sing it.
Unfortunately, when I searchedJustin Bieber Oceans Coachella,
what I get is Justin Bieberpublicly praised Frank Ocean's
controversial Coachella.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Maybe that's what I'm thinking of.
Maybe I just misread a headline.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
I read praise Justin Bieber publicly praises with
ocean.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah, I read Justin Bieber praises oceans Coachella
and I was like oh, I know thisstory?

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, absolutely Amazing stuff.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Um I'm 90%.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Sure that he did, though, yeah.
I am ready to declare our firstiteration of mic'd up a raging
success, yeah.
Yeah, and I am just thrilledfor whatever is going to come
next.
No, you're welcome, is theproper response.
You gave us that gift and I'mdeeply, deeply grateful.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
I don't think I'll come out swinging every time.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
That's fine.
I love Hot Takes with Pikewell.
I also love an endearing story.
I love you know.
This is a recipe that I cookedfor the first time and I loved
it.
You should try.
Whatever you wait, it's yourtime.
It's your time, we're along forthe ride.
Um, that was great.
Now I think we should go andtalk to DJ about topical

(21:56):
teaching.
Lane you ready to do this?
Oh, so ready, DJ.
Welcome back.
So glad to have you here.
I love you so much.
I love you, Brad, how you doingman, Doing good man.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
We're catching you.
Good to be back.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Catching you like.
The second week of August youwent to move and mix this summer
.
What's your favorite move andor mix memory from this summer.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Oof, oof man move and or mix memory from this summer.
Ooh, ooh, man, like you can goso many ways with that, because
there's the obvious like ballsin your court, man Okay.
Yeah, dude, okay.
So I would say, move.
I'll go sentimental and move.
I feel like it earns it.
Um, uh, when it comes to the,the night with the batons, I

(22:47):
honestly had no realexpectations for maybe one or
two of our students to like, youknow, like, hey, I'm interested
in hearing more information.
But we had five students comeforth that night and just the
conversations that have beenable to follow out of that Dude,
unreal.
And I think it was one of thosenights like I found myself like

(23:09):
by myself in tears a lot thatweek because it was more than
like I ever expected it would be.
But that night specifically,it's just like, wow, right, like
and it's not to negate any ofthe other big time decisions
right, like kids making firsttime decisions short of Jesus,
because they're all equal,they're all great, but to step
up and like, follow a calling,like and like, hear that and be

(23:30):
like you know what, no, I needto do this Like at, I mean like,
just thinking about where I was, like Brad knew me when I was
like 16, 17 years old, and it'sjust like to put like, think
where I was at 16, 17 years oldand to hear what these kids have
to say, and the reasoningbehind it, it's, it's, it's,
overwhelming, um.
So honestly, I would say that asa whole, from move, uh, because

(23:59):
it definitely wasn't tubing inthe river, I wanted to drive the
van off the road that day, um.
And then from mix, you know, wewent.
We went at a wild 24 hours.
We went.
A kid puking in the middle ofthe night all over the bathroom
floor at Juniata at 4.
Am that I had to clean up, astepped up and took one for the
team.
Yeah, man, you got to have agood puke story, got to, but

(24:21):
went through probably another.
Those those times where you'redealing with middle schoolers
you're like, oh my gosh, why dowe come to mix?
Um, and it just had one ofthose afternoons through lunch
going into dinner.
I'm like man, this is a day.
And that night we had fivebaptism conversations with uh
seventh to eighth graders, andthose I mean those kids

(24:44):
specifically like it's beenunmatched.
The work they put back uh thissummer.
So uh, overall, I don't knowhow it keeps topping year after
year, but I mean this is, thisis why you guys do what you do.
So I appreciate it.
Like we're, we're not I meanI'm a CY kids.
So like if, if they don't likeit or not, we're going back next
year anyway, it is what it isMakes your job a little bit

(25:07):
easier, though, right, oh?
yeah, just pick a week.
Hey, pay me, let's go and rockyeah.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I heard the baton thing from so many churches this
summer where it's like we justdidn't get enough or like
whatever, coming back and doingmore that kind of thing.
I'm glad to hear that.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
That was a huge plus.
We're still navigating it alittle bit but one of my
students he doesn't know whatside of ministry he wants to go
into, but we are.
I've talked with, I just had ameeting with our head pastor and
like the two of us are going tosit down, meet with him and
just like kind of answer anyquestion he has here coming up
soon.
So it's been at least like justgetting their gears, like going

(25:52):
towards this, like right, likeI mean the whole point of the
app is like we, we make thesebig time decisions at these
trips.
I think one year I was like I'mgoing to go into missions and
then immediately next week islike what was I thinking?
I'm not going to do that, butit just it makes it more like
can hold more practical, moreaccountable for these kids, Like
you know, because the numberone thing I want them to know is

(26:14):
like, yeah, dude, it's a life,it's a mountaintop experience,
but also coming back right Likeit's rough.
You get back into the flow ofthings.
Like I don't want them to thinklike there's ever a point where
like hey, I'm disappointed inyou or anyone's disappointed you
if you're not following throughon these things, but also, at
the same time, like, hey, doremember, these are things that
you said you wanted to do.
Do you still want to do this?

(26:34):
So it's been.
It's been strike some reallygood conversations in the month
month and a half since we'vebeen to.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
So it's awesome.
Love it, love it.
Incredible stuff, dude.
All right, well, uh, that wasall free, that was all bonus.
What we brought you here totalk about today, dj, is topical
teaching, um here to talk abouttoday.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
DJ is topical, teaching A lot of youth pastors.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Let's get topical.
I'm sorry.
Okay, I'm here for it.
So let's get topical.
Let's get topical.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Let's get topical, topical as opposed to exegetical
teaching.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Are those actually inverses of each other?
That's an argument to be had bysmarter people than I am, but a
lot of people feel like theyhave to make that choice.
Am I going to lean topical?
Am I going to lean exegetical,exegetical, whatever.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
I don't know.
You made me think I was sayingit wrong when you said it that
way.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
What did?

Speaker 3 (27:28):
I say let's debate this Is it exegetical or
exegetical.
I mean exegetical or exegetical.
I mean exegetical, exegetical.
That's what I thought topicalversus exegetical.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Okay, thank you, I just had a moment.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
I just had a moment, it's fine yeah, um, I, I just
you stressed me out, I didn'tknow if I was right, so okay.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
so, uh, just give me gut reaction really quick, like
what is it what?
Like if I asked you topicalversus exegetical, you're going
to say topical back to me why isthat your answer?
And then we're just going torun from there.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, dude, let's run it.
I think, first and foremost,right, I think, like you already
hit it, like it's an argumentof its own, like, when it comes
to it, I think there's trulylike I lean more topical.
But there's no real methodwithout a balance of both.
Like just before we go intoanything like I think that's

(28:22):
true this day, I would say Ilean more topical.
We probably lean more topicalas a church for the specific
reasons of we.
We feel as if we're able toright, we're able to engage
what's going on specifically inour kids' lives.
Like we know we're inrelationship, our leaders are in
relationship with thesestudents, we know what's kind of

(28:44):
going on.
So we kind of have an idea oflike, hey, topical gives us the
opportunity to be in the phaseof life they're in right now or
what they're struggling withright now.
It gives us the opportunity todo that and then, being topical,
we're able to then takeeverything we possibly can on
that topic and then have fiveweeks, four weeks, six weeks or

(29:07):
whatever.
So we lean that.
But I would also say, or we liketo think of the first time
guests, like all the time, and alot of times it feels less
overwhelming and it feels morelike this isn't what I thought
church was to.
First time guests or first timestudents, when they come in and

(29:28):
they're like it's very topical.
You're like, yes, we're talkingJesus, yes, we're talking
gospel.
That doesn't leave.
But it's more practical to belike if I'm on the fence about
Jesus, I'm open to coming backand learning more because this
is very practical to what I'mgoing through in life right now.
So I would say that ispersonally why I lean topical,
but I would say at the same time, there's no right or wrong

(29:52):
right Like I would say at thesame time that there's no right
or wrong right Like, at the endof the day, I'm not trying to
like oh, that's the puck, that'sit, we're done, done, done.
Way to tie a bow on it.
So.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
I assume you're.
I don't know what your summercalendar looks like and
everything else.
Have you all started regularprogramming back yet?

Speaker 2 (30:08):
We start in two weeks .
We start back in two weeks.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
So what is it?
So what is it?
What is your topical approach?
Look like for this, like firstmonth of, like jumping back in.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
What, like, what types of topics are you
addressing it within, like,specifically within your youth
ministry?
Yeah, no worries.
So we're hopping right back in.
We're starting off with aseries we kind of did as a
church during the summer tobuild hype, and we try our best
to be in a line.
We take some of our teachingsand make it more direct to
students, but we try to be onthe same level of what's going
on in our auditorium on Sundaysas well, because we want what

(30:46):
our students' parents are goingthrough and talking about to be
kind of on the same leveldifferent but same topics and
same subjects that theirstudents are getting during the
week.
So that's something that I talkwith our head pastor quite a
bit on and we're on the samepage of what things go forward.
So, as we're heading in, we'redoing a this is what we do
series, which it kind of justleans into our values as a

(31:07):
church, like experiencing God,finding community and doing
something that matters.
From then we're going toactually be in an apologetic
series for a little bit, likehelping them understand why they
believe what they believe orwhy why we're even here, right,
and then from there we're goingto do some mental health.
We usually always kind ofcircle back to some mental

(31:28):
health stuff.
It's just very relevant.
We don't want kids to feel likecaptured or hold by that, but
we want to be able to give themthe practical tools to move
forward from that.
So we're doing a series calledcages, essentially about being
like caged in from all thesefeelings and emotions.
So I we're still working on thespring, on the back half as we

(31:49):
go into the winter spring, butearlier this year we kind of
went really hard.
We went hard.
It was specifically likedigital hygiene, like a whole
technology series right into asex series.
So it was awesome, it wasphenomenal.
And the series was called.
This is a Series About Sex.

(32:10):
It was just right there.
They love the bumper video.
Nothing better than an awkwardroom of middle schoolers as you
get ready for that.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Awkward but remarkably well attended.
Oh no, I don't want to talkabout this.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
I'll check it out, locked in.
So I was listening to you sayeverything you just said as like
a guy sitting in Joplin,missouri, knowing like the type
of high school students andjunior high students that come
to my church, christ Church ofOronogo, that go to Lane's

(32:48):
Church, college Heights,christian Church, and I tried to
like kind of take myself out ofthat context a little bit and
imagine that I was in adifferent space and I think what
you're saying hits differentlydepending on, like what the
context of your ministry is.
Can you just talk a little bitabout like where you are and

(33:09):
what it is that your church istrying to do A hundred percent?

Speaker 2 (33:11):
man you are and what it is that your church is trying
to do.
A hundred percent man.
So Collective Church Frederick,maryland we planted eight years
ago, next month, so eighthbirthday coming up Excited the
Ocho.
Here we go, frederick, maryland, and honestly, this area in the

(33:32):
Northeast, as we're heading into the Northeast because we're
kind of just like Atlantic, butit's one of the most unchurched
areas in our country and it'sgot a very post-Christian,
post-christianity vibe, like allaround Very hardcore Catholic
roots.
No, shame to the Catholic Church, but they did a number on every
single one of my students'parents one time or another and

(33:52):
it's a lot of people that havejust been burned by the church,
don't have a good taste in theirmouth at a church.
It's very much leaning withlike the church doesn't accept
anybody, the church isjudgmental, we don't want
anything to do with it or peoplethat just have no understanding
of what religion is at all inthe area that we're in.
I mean like as you guys know,brad knows, like we grew up in

(34:16):
florida.
Like in florida, like is it asouth state, I don't know,
whatever it is, where?

Speaker 4 (34:22):
we live.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
It was yeah, uh, there's churches everywhere.
Uh, right, like, um, I was, Iwent to a church and there was
another church on that streetand there was another church on
the street over, and that couldnot be further from the opposite
when it comes to this area.
So a lot of the students weregetting, though they would look

(34:44):
back at their life when they'relike our age, like, be like,
yeah, I grew up in the church,but like their parents did not,
and they're all like as a wholetrying to figure this thing out,
did not, and they're all likeas a whole trying to figure this
thing out.
Um, it's pretty crazy uh tothink about, because, I mean,
it's, it's not what, it's notwhat different regions would be
used to like, or the bible belt,right, that's nothing.
Anywhere in eastern tennesseeor indiana would be like, really

(35:06):
like, are you like that?
That's the thing is like, yeah,dude, it's a total thing.
Uh, I've made the joke to colin,um, when we were at move, uh,
shout out to colin.
Uh, when we got move, uh, thissummer, and he was talking about
he's like yeah, I met some ofyour kids.
I was like, our kids jokearound really harshly with each
other and they said they've beengetting judged by these indiana
kids and I was like, and I'dsell them.

(35:26):
I was like, hey guys, don'ttake anything by it.
You're just like you got some m, some Maryland edge to you and
they're just not used.
They're not, they're not goingto be used to what.
How you guys are.
You're from a different planet.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
The Ravens and Colts are two different, two different
squads.
Oh yeah, they hate each other Ahundred percent.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
So it's just a.
So a part of our approach andwhy we lean topical is we are
reaching a different demographicof people all together.
So yeah, if that answers yourquestion, brad, it does.
I want to kind of no, itdefinitely does I just want to
like dig in on the last sentencethat you said.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
So, like you've kind of talked about.
Okay, here's our approach as achurch.
We want to be able to talk topeople about things that they
see as relevant.
We're sitting in this culturethat is like post-Christian.
A lot of kids are happy comingto church.
Their parents maybe not, youknow, first generation
Christians.
Um, those types of things likehow, as a church, I know you
guys have experienced successover the last eight years.

(36:31):
Like how do you feel like thisapproach has helped you?

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah, man, um, honestly, like it's helped in a
way where, uh right, in order tohave any sort of like success
in any area, right, leaders haveto go first.
We, we can't.
We can't be in an area where weare saying we're going to talk
about these topics and just bevague about it.

(36:57):
I would say a big part of thatis my team, our team as a church
as a whole.
It starts from the top down.
We go all in.
If we're going to talk aboutsex, if we're going to talk
about this topic, we have to go.
We have to go there.
We have to go there forourselves.
We have to be real about whatwe struggle with.

(37:18):
We have to be real about whatthat time was for us and in that
we we see we're getting greatresponse through our
vulnerability and our leadersvulnerability.
Our students are naturallyfeeling like this is a safe
place for them to come right,because the goal isn't for them.
Well, share your deepest,darkest secrets so we can shame
you Like it's not any of thatkind of thing.
We don't want any of that.
What we want is we understandwhat they're going through.

(37:41):
We understand how brutal theworld can be.
We understand how temptationcan be.
We understand what it's like tobe trapped in your own thoughts
and feel like you are carryingall of these things on your own.
So, through our vulnerabilityand us stepping up and going
first, it's given them theopportunity to really open up on
our small groups because,though we have the teachings,
we'll do activities from here tothere.

(38:04):
I think I talked about this thelast time I was on podcast with
you.
When it comes to small groups,we really lean into the topic
and we really like step up tothe challenge of it.
And right, some kids will share, some kids won't.
But at the at the core of thatis like we will step up and make
sure we are always the oneslike being vulnerable first to
make them know like hey, you'reseeing, you're heard, like I've

(38:25):
been there too.
We want to make sure it's asafe place.
That they know like, hey, thisisn't going to be a place where,
like I'm coming in with barelyanything you have to share and
then we're going to like we'reall going to dissect your life,
kind of a deal which, to adegree, I feel like part of that
comes with the edge of some ofour staff members that we grew

(38:46):
up in that kind of environment.
So we're trying to doeverything that we didn't like.
We're trying to do the opposite.
We're trying to pendulum swingthere we didn't like.
We're trying to do the opposite.
We're trying to pendulum swingthere, but also, at the same
time, we're trying to create.
I mean I say this to my teamquite a bit I want you to sit in
the space and, like yourself asa teenager, and think of all
the things that you wish you hadand wish you didn't.

(39:07):
Be that for these kids, be wholike.
And I think when we talk abouttopics, specific topics, it
gives us opportunity to, yes,take in scripture and what God
says about these topics, liketake in all what Jesus says as
well, and take in what Paul saysLike right, if we're talking
about sex, let's jump intoCorinthians, let's talk about
the culture of the Corinthiansand talk about all of that as

(39:27):
well.
In regards to also like whatJesus and God has to say about
marriage in general.
In regards to also like whatJesus, god, has to say about
marriage in general.
But also let's let us have anopportunity to tell you, like
what that felt like for us atthat time period and like we
have the opportunity to tellthem and place words like on

(39:49):
them that like we wish we couldhave heard at that time too.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
That's good, it's good stuff, cool.
So I just I kind of thoughtlane was going to jump in there.
I had a feeling, but my lanesenses are off.
Sorry because we've been apartalso no, I'm gonna do?
You don't have to do.
Yeah, I'm gonna go um.
So, uh, I just didn't want tointerrupt you if you were going
to say something you know, yeah,yeah, so polite gosh, this guy
I'm I throw I.

(40:11):
I'm when I think of myself, Ialways think of polite.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Definitely First.
Thing.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
And humble, yeah, yeah and humble, Okay.
So I feel like people who leanexegetical would say like that
topical teaching.
You're kind of like openingyourself up to the temptation to
kind of like cherry pick thingsto talk about the things that

(40:39):
you really want to talk aboutand leave other things on the
table that you know you maybeshould talk about, but you're
you're giving yourself thefreedom not to kind of, so to
speak.
I'm not accusing you of that, Idon't think that you do that,
but I am You're saying I'mdodging stuff.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, I'm saying yeah .

Speaker 1 (40:58):
It sounds like you're really really doing the milk
and not the solid food, man.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
But I am just curious if you're like, when you're
picking, like, what am I goingto talk about Like?
Are you conscious of that?
Going to talk about Like?
Are you conscious of that?
Are you like, how do you arriveat the place where you say,
like I don't remember exactlywhat you said, all you're
exactly going to be talkingabout this fall, but I know you
said you're doing apologetics.
Um, you mentioned anotherseries that you're doing.
Like, how did you get there?

(41:26):
Is, I guess, the question.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
So, yeah, I think it's a great question.
I think or not.
I think what we do is, um, weget together, um, me and head
pastor here, along with likelike, and we kind of set the
topics and he sets mostly thetopics we're talking about and
like, right within, taking inputon some of the staff and some
trusted leaders, where we wekind of sit and like we are able

(41:52):
to look back at past years andknow what we've hit on, what's
been a while since we've hit onum, to kind of know what's next
in turn, what, where, wherethings start to fall, um, so
sometimes it's driven by liketime period on which we've
talked on a topic, um, butsometimes it's just driven by
like no, right now, like this,this is needed and we have these

(42:14):
things planned out.
But we're going to take thisseries, we're actually going to
push this to this time periodbecause this is really what's
relevant right now.
So a lot of it is throughconversations, through groups,
through meetings and then us,like as a staff, getting
together and knowing, likereally feeling out the needs of
our church at the time and theneeds of our people, because
sometimes it, sometimes it's itreally comes down to right, like

(42:40):
we, we don't want to hit atopic if there's no, if it's not
feeling like it's somethingthat needs to be heard at that
time.
And I think like right, I thinkyou're right, like there's a
feeling or a sense of cherrypicking in that essence, because
you know, at the end of the day, like we can just pick whatever
topics we want to if we go thatway.
But also, at the same time, Ifeel like with the other other

(43:02):
things that we bring, I won'tsay other things you bring to
the table, but I would say we,we don't dodge things, we will
just maneuver things in order ofwhat need we feel needs to be
hit at that time, if that makessense, that is, that is that it.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, it does make sense.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yeah, no, I well, I, I think that you know, I I think
the key thing that you saidright that, right off the rip,
was was in relationship, was wasin relationship, use the, you
know, use the phrase inrelationship right at the
beginning, you know, andanswering at the very beginning
of the question.
That is, I think that is thekey is, you know, you also

(43:44):
mentioned being cognizant offirst time guests and things
like that.
But when it comes to, like,pastoring a certain group of
people, um, consistently, youknow, consistent group of people
, it it seems, you know, that itseems like spending time with
those people, being inrelationship with those people,
understanding the needs of thosepeople, what's going on in

(44:04):
their lives, what's going on,you know, in their, in their
worlds, and everything it.
It allows you to have a morelaser focus when it comes to
picking topics and probably, Iwould think too, maybe it
doesn't allow you to cherry pickquite as much.
If you're willing to be honestabout.
This is what we really see as atrue need here right now.

(44:26):
It's what needs to happen.
It might be less comfortable,it might feel less inviting to a
newcomer or something like that, but if we are truly in
relationship with the peoplethat have been entrusted to us.
Then here we go.
Do you have like a?
Do your series?
Do they vary in length or areyou like we're going to do four

(44:48):
weeks on this?
Four weeks on this.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
They vary in length, I would say nothing's more than
six.
Okay, like we don't want tobeat something to death, like
right, we don't want to berepetitive, like on a couple of
weeks.
Yeah, cool, lane.
I would say three to six onusual.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
DJ, I'm so grateful that you're here.
I'm going to ask Lane aquestion really quick.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
If that's quick, okay , that's okay.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Do you view what happens at move as topical
teaching?

Speaker 3 (45:15):
I'm kidding, I really don't know what you're going to
say.
It's a great question it does.
It does vary a little bit, um.
You know it varies a little bityear to year, theme to theme,
um, but there's a, there's a.
I feel like oftentimes it's alittle bit of a hybrid because
we are going to be workingthrough.
I mean, this next year is goingto be a really good example of

(45:41):
um.
Well, I'll say this two yearslast year, rest of your life, um
, we had some more exegeticalkind of teaching in the morning
as we walked through Psalm 23,.
Just start to finish up thecourse of the mornings.
Kind of teaching in the morningas we walked through Psalm 23,.
Just start to finish up thecourse of the mornings.
And then in the evenings was alittle bit more topical because
our you know, our whole themecentered around, you know, two
verses, basically in Matthew,and then we spun off.

(46:03):
And then we spun off of those toaddress some different themes.
This next year, as we look atEphesians, it will be a little
bit more of a hybrid where wewill walk through Ephesians, but
we have decided to hone in onsome specific themes within
Ephesians that we're going totalk about each day, um and so.
So maybe a little bit of ahybrid in that in that sense.

(46:25):
Um, yeah, you know, so it is.
It is kind of to get like thisholistic idea of this, of the
book of Hebrew or, excuse me,it's just this year of Ephesians
, but um, but there's a sense ofarts where, like, okay, high
schoolers suck at resting.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
We need to talk about this, no doubt.
Galatians two 20 says this andwe're going to kind of like go
in some different directionshere, which?
is like a similar philosophy, atleast for that theme, as what
you know DJ is kind of talkingabout, which I think is really
cool.
So, yeah, is there like do youever I'm curious about this come

(47:05):
to a theme that you're like wewant to talk about this and then
ultimately end up doingsomething a little bit more
exegetical where it's like, hey,we need to talk about joy, so
we're just going to go throughPhilippians?
Like, does that kind of thingever happen?

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah, no, I would say a hundred percent.
I like and I I reallyappreciate you late, like I
cause, when it comes to CIY,like in that, like like I cause,
I was thinking through this andlike topical and like we
definitely lean topical and Iwas like I was thinking
yesterday, I was right now.
I was like what's ciy even do?
I was like they're definitelyexegetical but like it is

(47:44):
topical within, as exegeticalthrough and through it is.
It is a heavy, good, balanceddose of the two of them.
Um, but I'd say yeah,definitely.
I I'd say when we do moreexegetical um, we did a series,
I want to say a year and a half,two years ago, I can't remember
exactly when, but it was.
It was um, I can't remember thename of it, but it was

(48:08):
specifically honed in on the oh,my goodness, I'm below my mind
right now.
It was honed in on the prodigalson.
So it was honed in on that.
So, exegetically speaking, wewent through the same scripture,
actually four weeks in a row,but it was topically different
across the board because we wentthrough the shoes of every

(48:30):
single person in that story.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
So, right, first, one we're playing the yeah
christmas series.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
It was a christmas series on the prodigal son don't
mind what a sad thing to bringup song doesn't deserve the
disrespect that's the headspacethat lane is in right now.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's it's a great song.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
It's so sad, but yeah , uh, we went through the
father's shoes, the son's shoes,the brother's shoes and then
also, like the you know thecommunity.
How the community reacted aswell.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
So, yeah, it's cool, I like it.
So I'm about to ask, like kindof a wrap up question Do you
have anything else you want tohit on?
Lane's like taking notes overhere.
I'm a bad host, lane is.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
No, I'm just.
I just want to write down stuff, that stuff that just like
stands out to me.
You know what I mean.
I should do that too.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
That's what I'm saying Well, you kind of, you
kind of.
All I have over here is alittle picture of my fox
drinking a cup of coffee.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Well, you can just go back and listen to it.
I guess Brad.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, that's true, since you didn't want to be
attentive in the moment.
No, I am being attentive, I'mjust not as I'm forever living
in the shadow of Lane Moss.
If I'm being honest, Get out ofhere.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
So I one you kind of answered this, but I but I'm
curious.
So what, what typically?
What does a you know what is atypical topical uh uh series, or
I'm going to zero on message?
So, like you know, on a, on aon a Wednesday night or a Sunday
night or whenever you're doingyour stuff, you know what?

(50:09):
What does that mean for the useof scripture?
So I hope that doesn't at allsound loaded Like I'm just
saying for those people that doprefer to teach topically but
also have, as I know you do, ahigh regard for scripture.
You know, and so is it.
Do you typically go okay, we'regoing to talk about you know
this topic, so let's find ascripture that we think speaks

(50:31):
to that topic really well, or isthat like we're going to kind
of just going to take the heartof what scripture says overall
about this topic and we're goingto try to teach from that?
What's your approach?
I don't know if there's a rightor wrong.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
No, that's an awesome question because I think it
brings clarity to the wholething Is right, I think.
I think a lot of times like thegoal right and this is right.
I think a lot of times like thegoal right, and the goal in
everything is that Scripturedrives everything right.
The goal is that God's Word isthe thing that is driving us.
And right, we take therelationships we have with these
people plus God's Word and whenhe lays on our hearts to put

(51:09):
together anything.
I would say it varies sometimesright, like we did a series
earlier this year called BattleReady, right, um, though it's
topical about being in storms,being in the battle, and we're
able to.
You know, we're able to pull,we're able to pull from the old
Testament and overcoming Right.
And like one of our biggest uh,uh things from first or second

(51:30):
Kings can't remember off the topof my head right now Like we
always talk about diggingditches, digging the ditches,
doing the hard work, so God willprovide.
So we we referenced things likethat all the time but meanwhile
, like it was a series throughand through, through James like
being battle ready througheverything.
So I would say sometimes likeright, like we're saying our,
our, our church needs a seriesabout men stepping up, right,

(51:53):
and you know what?
Well, we'll talk a little bitabout that in youth and bring
that, bring some essence of thatas well, right?
Then we're going to say, okay,we'll take this specific thing.
Now let's kind of hone in oneverything that's calling men to
step up.
I think sex would be another onewhere it's like okay, we know
what that is, we know that's ahot topic as well.
Let's take everything and carefor each scripture as well on

(52:15):
that.
But then I would say veryspecifically, if we're going to
talk about burdens or the weightthat we carry, we already know
we're going to be in Matthew, wealready know which parables
we're going to pull through andwhat we're going to kind of lean
on when it comes to that.
Totally, yeah, it's good.
I think that's a great question, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
It's good stuff.
Holy spirit is is kind of theone who's in charge, obviously,
when it comes to like whatdirection are we heading, but
that you're giving scripturekind of.
Once you land on something,it's like okay, we need to be
really, really attentive to theauthority that scripture has on

(52:55):
this issue, and not because Imean the tim like.
We've all heard bad topicalsermons before, we've all heard
bad exegetical sermons before,but the bad topical chapel at a
bible college but the badtopical sermons come when
somebody is like I think this isthe thing that I really want to
say, and here are 15 like oneverse passages of scripture that

(53:21):
I can kind of like use in orderto say the thing that I want to
say, and from an approachstandpoint like you.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
You and collective church as a whole, it sounds
like are way more Keyed in onlike making sure that scripture
has a final authority, which Ithink you have, I mean sometimes
, like right, like majority oftime, we only have one shot with
a person and we we cannot blowthat by misinterpreting

(53:50):
scripture or giving any sort ofground for Satan to overtake
something in someone's head whenthey come into that space,
because they could very wellleave.
And you know very well likepeople don't like truth all the
time, so like people are notgoing to like what we have to
say all the time, we, we areunderstanding that.

(54:10):
But the last thing we will lethappen is the fact that someone
comes and say we'vemisinterpreted scripture, we're
not, we're not, we're not in thegame for that.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, yeah, so it requires care.
Um, absolutely Exegeticalrequires care, but this I'm glad
we hit on like what they kindof unique temptations and type
of care that are needed are here.
So here's kind of the questionthat I want to end on I hope
this gives you a chance to kindof put a bow on things and wrap
this conversation up a littlebit is just, let's say, your

(54:36):
senior pastor.
This isn't happening.
I don't think, based on whatyou've said, your senior pastor
comes to you and is like hey, Iknow we've this has kind of been
where we've lived and we'vedone this topical thing for a
while.
But I want to spend two yearsand I want to go through like
the gospel of Luke, verse byverse, for a hundred weeks.

(54:59):
You know which, uh, my churchhas done and it was great, it
was wonderful.
But I'm curious what you feellike you would lose the ability
to do if that were like the, thepath you decided to go.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
I mean, that's a lot, that's a lot.
Verse by verse in Luke Um,specifically, are you asking
like that's what lot?
That's a lot, that's a good.
Verse by verse in Luke,specifically, are you asking,
like that's what we're doing asa church, a whole, like in
everything, week to week, fortwo years?
Yeah, I'm going to make sure Iget every hypothetical out of
this.
Yeah, yeah, no that's nothypothetical.

(55:37):
We've done that, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
It's a thing that's happened.
Um, but yeah, I'm just curious,like obviously you're not going
to be like oh dang, I have topreach about Luke.
This sucks Sure.
Like I'm curious what tools youwould feel like might be taken
out of your tool belt If thatwas what you were doing for two
years.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah, I feel like it would take.
It would take out our abilitybe able to to write, mix and
match and play with what we wantto play with, based off of the
needs we feel.
A lot of times because we'd be,we'd be just trucking along on
this plan.
I, I do feel like there'sdefinitely areas where, like

(56:15):
right, gospels are in a linewith each other.
So I mean, just because we'rein Luke doesn't mean we have to
stay in Luke.
It does give us the opportunityto jump around Um.
So, within that like, we stillhave some flexibility to be
topical depending on where we'reat, but also for the main, the
main part, like it.
It gives a little bit more oflike this is a plan and we're to

(56:38):
it and it's not.
Again, it takes away thatability to be able to shift and
be like no.
These are the needs we're at Umand this is something we're
really feeling we need to touchon um, because we were already,
according to, like, stickingtrue on this plan.
So I feel like that's what itwould take away is the freedom
to, uh, just kind of jump in andbe like no.

(57:00):
This is something we need to doright now.
We're we feel this need rightnow.
I definitely would think itwould take that away.
That would be my rebuttal to itat a hundred percent, but not
to say there's not like there's,there's a pro con to everything
.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
But yeah, oh yeah, a hundred percent.
I'm not saying one's right andone's wrong, I'm just curious,
like I know that if that if?
You're, if you're a seniorpastor said that to you, you'd
be like cool, let's run with it.
I'm just curious.
I was curious like, okay, whatdo we feel like we lose?
And it sounds like there's likean of the moment-ness, like a
flexibility that you have.
It's a flexibility.

(57:31):
I feel.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
I feel like we lose an intentionality, if you like,
down the road that we aremissing.
I feel like, if we commit tosomething there, we like, right.
If we commit to doing somethingfor two years, we don't know
what six months looks like, letalone two years from there.
That point, so I feel like itis us making plans for an area

(57:53):
we like though we need to begood stewards and know, like and
plan things 100% but we are notgiving us the ability to know,
like, if, if something needs tochange or if, like, there is a
felt need that we need to hit,yeah, well, and it goes back to,
so you're going back to the inrelationship aspect of it yeah,

(58:13):
based on the relationships thatwe have.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
We would give freedom to be able to be a little bit
more limber with regards to whatwe're teaching and what we're
walking people through.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
But like I also was brought back to the context
thing too, where it's like whenI walk into church and Mark
Christian says good morningchurch, open your Bibles to John
, chapter 15.
This is where we're at, youknow.
It's like I've been there everyweek, you know and I know where
we're at.
Like I have a context for thisbut like the number of people
that you see one time, or yousee them one time and then six

(58:47):
weeks later you see them onemore time, and it's like within
your context, that might justmake less sense at times, um
than just saying like we live inthis place in this culture in
this time and if we're gonnahave one shot in this culture in
this time, and if we're goingto have one shot at saying
something to somebody, this iswhat we want them to hear.
It's just a different approachand I appreciate you kind of

(59:09):
helping me think about it alittle bit.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
So, because I think there's occasionally something
to be said for, sorry, I thinkyou're trying to land this plane
, and I keep, and I keep pullingback on this.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Listen, I'm down with touch and goes.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
Good, good, good, good, good, good good.
Touch and go that's a greatseries title for a topic.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
About what that will be very well attended by middle
schoolers.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Oh, oh, oh God, okay, no Bad Sorry.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
I've never had to put an explicit tag on this podcast
.
Let's not start now.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
So one thing that I'm curious I think that actually
might have a little bit of a tosome degree.
I've heard an argument madethat for new people coming into
a church it might be easier towalk into, open your Bibles to,
you know, to John, you know, 13,.
Because that's where we areright now, because it alleviates

(01:00:17):
the question mark in people'sminds of why does this church
that I don't know think that Ineed to hear this thing they're
talking about today?
It can like it can.
It can alleviate that just alittle bit, um, and instead just
kind of go listen.
We're talking about this thingbecause we think this book is
important, and this is the nextthing that we were in 12 last
week, we're in 13 this weekbecause it's next.

(01:00:39):
I've heard that it canalleviate.
So I'm just so, I think it'sinteresting, just cause I think
it can kind of go both waysthere, right, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
I can.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
I can see, I can totally see.
You know you can walk.
On the other hand, you can walkin and go like 13.
Okay, well, what did I?

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
what have it's like if Endgame was the first Marvel
movie that you saw?

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What are we?

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
doing here, Dude?

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
actually funny story.
You brought that up tosidetrack it.
I saw the seventh part oneHarry Potter movie without
seeing five or six, withoutreading the books.
No idea Dumbledore is dead.
It's exactly like that Spoileralert.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
I was like he's dead.
Spoiler alert.
Spoiler alert for the20-year-old series Harry Potter.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
On that note, yeah, no, that's good.
Well, I'm sorry, that's good,because I would say too, like,
just like that, like we with thetopical, not to.
I know we're trying to wrapthings up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Listen, I'm fine.
I want to be respectful of yourtime, your time, hey dude,
you're nothing but respectful ofmy time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
I love you.
Um, I just just to get to spendtime with you, that's all Um.
When it comes to topical, when,when we like, we'll usually
like right, like, start off likesermons or teachings with, like
a story or something funny orsomething like something to gain

(01:02:08):
people's attention, nine timesout of 10, right, and after that
we're in this series and welist off all the things we've
already talked about, like, andif you've missed it, like always
refer if you've like.
If Always refer if you've like.
If this is your first Sundayhere or you missed Sunday, go
back on the podcast, go back toYouTube, go back to Spotify,
listen to it.
Like, if this intrigues you, goback and listen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
It's great 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
It's good stuff.
I think that topical is rightand exegetical is wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
now yeah, that's what we learned today, right?
No, no.
All scripture is right.
No, no, all scripture.
It's God breathed and usefulfor teaching, rebuking
correcting and training andrighteousness.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
You got it Training and righteous.
Thanks, dave Peters.
Dave Peters would be so proud.
All right, hey, dj, thanks forbeing here.
Man, I love you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I love you too, man.
Thank you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
See you soon.
Thanks, DJ Uh conversation.
Thanks for letting me be a partof it.
It was a lot of fun.
It actually went a differentway than I kind of thought it
was going to go, but it wasgreat.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Yeah, I think it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Um, all right, we are .
We killed the mailbag.
We're also killing the blessing, Sorry folks.
Um, here's what we're going todo instead we're going to have
one youth worker be a proxy forall of you and we are going to
spend some time hyping up thatyouth worker.
They will get to go On thisboard that you cannot see.

(01:03:30):
If you were listening.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
On the board.
Oh it's just a cork board.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
It's just a cork board.
What are the?

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
dimensions of this cork board Not big enough.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
13 by I don't know, okay, so Not big enough.
13 by I don't know, okay, so 28.
I need Lane.
I asked Chad GPT to help, but Ineed your help naming this
segment.
Okay, okay, here we go.
Can't wait.
Here are some options that ChadGPT gave me.
The hype board yeah, simple andliteral, that's the description
.
Hype board Pin the praise Got avery jumping with joy.

(01:04:03):
Push pin props.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
I think producer Michael likes that one that got
a reaction.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
The praise board.
Yeah, tackling the best.
I don't know what that means,what I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
Wait.
Who said that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
The hall of hype Chat , gpt.
He sucks PinspirationEncouragement, that's one that
he gave me.
Snapshot of a saint, any ofthese resonating with you?
Yet no, hype shots.
It says life.
Saint, any of these resonatingwith you yet no, okay, hype

(01:04:45):
Shots, it says life.
I know, but a good theme song.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
Why don't we ask listeners for suggestions?

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Okay, someone tell us what to name this segment, but
I am going to give Lane a chanceto go very first.
So we have a blank cork board.
And Lane can pin whomever hewould like to the corkboard and
tell us why they're just anawesome youth worker.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Do I pin first or do I talk first?

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Pin and talk at the same time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Pin and talk at the same time.
For our very first addition tothe inspiration, for our very
first encouragement.
I just wanted to take a secondto hype up our friend and yours,
Miss Addie Jarrett.
So this is a little bit, maybea little bit of a

(01:05:26):
non-traditional thing.
She's not really a youth pastorin like the traditional sense,
in that she doesn't do like ayouth ministry in a local church
.
She is a part of a local churchbut specifically the youth work
that she does, the youthministry that she does, is
through the neighborhood lifehouse here in Joplin and
absolutely is doing anincredible job.
They're a phenomenal ministry.

(01:05:46):
They come along people to meetneeds, physically, emotionally,
spiritually, and they have a tonof different like youth
programs that they do.
Addie's, the director ofneighborhood life house brings,
brings a group of them to movehere in Joplin.
Yeah, here in Joplin Just saw arecent post from Lifehouse
where they're celebrating threebaptisms from decisions that

(01:06:08):
were made within their youthprograms this summer, which is
absolutely awesome.
We're celebrating that withthem, with Addie.
It is just so broad, so manydifferent programs that they do
and so so broad, um, so manydifferent programs that they do
and so so much work.
And if youth ministry is this,if youth ministry is loving
young people and pointing themto Jesus, then Addie is a

(01:06:31):
absolute killer.
Youth minister just doing akiller job with it.
So uh, in your corner, addie,love ya Um and uh, always
encouraged by you and the workthat you're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Joplin is different because of Addy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Absolutely.
It's a different place becauseof Addy.
Absolutely, thank you forchoosing her.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
That's wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
And her.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
And that's his wife.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
And her husband Cliff .

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Okay, well, that's all for today.
Folks, quick reminder if youhave a good move, mix or
superstar or engage or a youthministry in general story that
you think is going to be goodfor our listeners to hear, type
it out.
Send it to podcastatciycom.
We'll get it.
I'll read it as written on theair.
You can be an encouragement toour listeners.
Today's episode is produced bymichael hester, lauren brian and

(01:07:26):
myself.
Thanks lane and thanks dj forbeing with us today uh, two
weeks from today we will finishthis conversation about topical
versus exegetical teaching.
We're going to be talking tojuan fias.
If you don't want to miss that,be sure you subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts.
We'll see you next time, thankyou.