September 22, 2025 • 60 mins
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What if the most powerful way to reach today's youth isn't through carefully crafted topical messages, but through teaching them to dig into Scripture verse by verse? Jeremy Stevenson, formations pastor at Christ Church in Jacksonville, believes we're facing a generation hungry for authenticity—one that needs skills to engage with God's Word directly rather than depending on a youth pastor's clever packaging.
In this thought-provoking conversation, Jeremy shares how his student ministry tackles Paul's prison epistles through a series called "Letters from a Cell," creatively connecting ancient texts with Dietrich Bonhoeffer's prison writings while staying firmly rooted in Scripture. Rather than avoiding theological challenges that naturally arise when teaching through books of the Bible, Jeremy's team creates space for deeper dives into topics like predestination and sexuality—discovering that students eagerly stay for these substantive conversations.
The shift to exegetical teaching hasn't dampened creativity or student engagement. Instead, it's transformed how students interact with Scripture and their peers. "They are now equipped to take God's word to their people rather than bringing their people to hear God's word," Jeremy explains, noting how students are increasingly discipling friends rather than merely inviting them to church. By encouraging physical Bibles over screen projections and emphasizing direct textual engagement, Christ Church is equipping students with lifelong skills for spiritual growth.
Before this insightful discussion, we join Caleb DeRoin as he recounts his extraordinary attempt at the punishing Leadville 100 mountain bike race in Colorado—a 105-mile challenge with 12,000 feet of elevation change that defeats over half its participants annually. His riveting story of perseverance through 90 miles of grueling terrain at extreme altitudes offers surprising parallels to our spiritual journey of endurance and commitment.
Whether you're a youth minister questioning your teaching approach or simply curious about effective ways to help young people engage with Scripture, this episode offers fresh perspectives on discipleship that transcends trends and cultivates lasting spiritual formation. Subscribe for our upcoming conversation about integrating students into adult services versus creating student-only spaces!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Brad Warren.
This is Beyond the Event, ayouth ministry podcast presented
by Christ in Youth, where wehelp you maintain momentum
between the mountaintops.
Our guest today is JeremyStevenson.
Jeremy is the formations pastorat Christ Church in my hometown
of Jacksonville, Florida.
Jeremy and I are going to behaving part two of our
conversation about topicalversus exegetical teaching by
(00:28):
talking about the exegeticalside of things.
Before we dig into that, though, quick note this episode is
going to feel a little bitdifferent than other episodes.
We had some schedulingconflicts, some weird things, so
we had to kind of break thingsup a little bit more than we
typically would.
So Caleb, who is my co-host, isnot going to be joining me for
(00:51):
the interview, but we do have aconversation with CIO's director
of Mix, Caleb DeRoyne.
So we're going to go to thatand then you'll hear from Jeremy
later.
I'm joined by my good friend,my favorite blonde, Caleb
Deroyne.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Here I am.
I'm just fired up to be hereWelcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh, I love it so much .
Caleb, let's talk about yoursummer pre-Colorado for a second
Pre-Colorado.
And then I want to talk aboutColorado.
I'm just how like.
You got to go to a bunch ofmixes, you got to have a good
time, you got to hang out with alot of cool people.
I did what is a standout memoryfor you from this summer?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I think for me, my favorite event of the summer had
to be we did a new location inTexas this year at Stephen F
Austin University In Nacogdoches, Nacognowhere.
They can call it Nacognowhere,but there's a Taco Bueno across
the street from the dorms inRetro.
(01:57):
That's not nothing.
I ate it a lot.
No, it's been a while just withmy role.
Um, I have to do certain eventssometimes and there are certain
times that I have to go tocertain places, but I got to go
to a first year event, which istypically smaller, um, and that
was really good.
(02:18):
It was.
It was fun to see uh mix withjust a couple hundred people and
getting to know all of theyouth pastors by name and like
getting coffee with all of themand hanging out with all of them
, because I'm not running aroundand putting out every fire on
the world which sometimes seemsto be at bigger events, and so
(02:40):
that was a really sweet time forme this summer to just really
like be at a mix that nothingreally crazy happened, we just
had a good time.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, so new location Stephen F Austin University.
Yep, are we going back?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
We're so back.
Should people go?
Absolutely, was it good, was itfun?
Yeah, what did you?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
love about mixing.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Stephen F Austin Um it's June in Texas, yeah, so it
was a little hot.
It honestly wasn't as bad as Ithought it would be.
The weather ended up beingpretty mild.
It rained quite a bit.
Um, Stephen F Austin, I wouldsay we got there and even
(03:27):
learned more of what we could dothere in terms of like
recreation and some fun stuffthat they have on campus.
Um, their rooms are reallyreally great in terms of like
having the event, like theprogramming side of it, um, and
also, yeah, there's just morethat we can do on college
campuses than we can do on oncamp sometimes, and this one is
(03:51):
it just feels really safe.
Like Nacogdoches is a smalltown, but the campus was big
enough to explore right and soI'm excited.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's not like we're having mix at NYUyu or something
.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
No, yeah, yeah although mix at nyu oh my gosh
me what's good?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
can I direct it?
No, absolutely not.
I would come.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, you can come uh run slides, uh I would I would
do that no, I really think.
Uh, I think it was cool.
Um, as we, as we continue togrow, finding a new spot in
texas just to like help morepeople be able to experience mix
in texas we have so many greatchurches down there too, so many
(04:35):
, so many good churches and itwas good like I got to hang out
with my boy, richard hamiltonyeah, like me and rip got coffee
and just like talked about lifefor a long time and it was just
like man.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
It felt good to do that, yeah so well, I'm glad you
had a good time there and I'mglad that mix went well there,
because that is a uh, a greatspot and people who are down
there should check it out.
So, um, okay, now let's talkabout the colorado part of your
summer yeah, so last time you'reon this podcast, we actually
talked a little bit about, yeah,so an exciting thing that you
were getting ready to do, yeah,um, which was do the leadville
(05:12):
100 uh bike event yep, what dothey call it?
mb, mtb mountain bike gosh, um,and you were like working hard
and preparing for that and got anew bike and the whole thing.
So it's happened now.
Last week before you right, butwhich, like before you get into
, like your experience.
(05:33):
I did a little bit of researchabout the ledville 100 mtb crazy
stuff.
Okay, first of all, 12 000 feet, did I read?
Is there 12,000 feet ofelevation change, yeah,
throughout the course of therace yeah.
It is over 100 miles 105.
105 miles In 2024,.
(05:53):
Last year, I believe, only 51%of the people who entered the
race finished it.
Something like that In 2023,two years ago, 44% of the people
that entered the race finishedit.
It like you signed up to dosomething impossible, crazy hard
I'm super proud of you for evensigning up to do it.
(06:16):
Tell me about your experience.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, so this summer, uh, was one of the more chaotic
summers of my entire life.
Uh, I either drove to a bunchof events so I could bring my
bike, or I brought my bike withme all around the country to get
rides in early in the morningbefore the adult leader meeting,
which is just chaos.
And so I went out there acouple of weeks ago to try to
(06:43):
get acclimated, um, tried toreally have myself prepared for
what, yeah, you said is justlike a really crazy feat of
trying to ride your bike atcrazy elevation.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Um, and so not just at crazy elevation, but like um
and so not just at crazyelevation, but like through a
crazy dynamic of elevation.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, yeah, so it's based out of leadville, colorado
, and if you know anything aboutit, that is a town that sits it
right over 10 000 feet.
Um, people shouldn't live there.
It's not good for their bodies,science has proven it.
Yeah, but they do, and I'mgrateful that they do.
But, yeah, what is today TodayThursday?
Today is Thursday.
(07:32):
We did the race Saturday, sofive days, a few days ago, yeah,
five days ago, at 6.40 in themorning, in Leadville, colorado,
I towed the start line and gaveit my best shot.
How'd it go?
Well, for all of those who willlisten to this and are just
(07:54):
waiting on the edge of theirseat, guess what Didn't finish.
The goal was to finish.
To be completely honest, I hadput in a ton of work this summer
, um, to finish this thing.
Um, and for the first it's evencrazy to say it like this for
the first 75 miles of this race,I felt like a superhero.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I feel exhausted after driving 75 miles.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Um, my nutrition was really really good.
Our plan was really really good.
Our plan was really really good.
My coach and I had made a tonof really good decisions on
pacing and everything feltreally good.
The crux of the race so it's105 miles, but it's 52 and a
half miles out and 52 and a halfmiles back.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, it's out and a half milesout and 52, and a half miles
(08:43):
back.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I didn't know that.
Yeah, it's out and back.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
The middle of the race, like the middle 14 miles
is an up and down from 9,000feet to 12,500.
So it's a 3,500 foot climb,seven-ish miles up, seven-ish
miles down.
That's the crux of the race,that's the turnaround point.
You ride your bike, or walkyour bike all the way up to 12,
(09:08):
five spot and they're like okay,yeah, there's a little loop.
You go, you like hand a bottleand you're like can you refill
that with water?
And you go around this loop andthey're like here's your water.
And you're like thanks, um, uh,yeah, above tree line.
I wish I think there are acouple of things that I wish
like I wish I would've lookedaround.
I didn't, cause I was like ohno, I got to keep going, like
let's keep going.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And also, if I see a single cloud move, I'm going to
throw up.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, I am almost on the surface of the sun.
Um, and so, yeah, for the first75 miles felt really really
good.
Um, there's something thathappens when you ride for that
long that your mind is just notas sharp, and so I made a pretty
(10:12):
big time cuts throughout thewhole race.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So at 40 miles you have to make it there by a
certain time or you get pulledoff the course.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Got it Like a certain time of day Correct, Like 4
o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, you know whatever, yeah, yeah, okay.
So from the start line line youhave four hours to make it 40
miles okay um, which is still aton of climbing, a ton of
getting there.
so got the first time cut, feltreally good, got there with like
30 something minutes to spare.
Then you go do the big climb atthe 63 mile cut, have that's
(10:44):
another time cut.
Then at the 83 mile, there'sanother time cut.
At the 92 mile, there's anothertime cut, and then obviously
you have the finish after the 63.
But started thinking throughwhere the next cut was, knowing
(11:07):
it was at 83 miles, butconvincing myself, just while
you're alone on the bike with nomusic because they don't want
you to wear headphones, Istarted thinking it was
somewhere else than where it was.
And when I pulled up to wherethis, it was one of the aid
stations, so people were there.
I had a lady look at me and belike you have 19 minutes till
(11:27):
the cut and I was like that wasodd that she told me that,
because the cuts right here.
Why would she tell me?
I have like a hundred feet togo.
Why would you tell me that?
Uh, it turns out it wasn't.
It was like six or seven milesaway.
Um, and so I had 19 minutes toride, like six miles, six, seven
(11:52):
miles, uh, which means I had tojust empty everything out, um,
and so that 83 mile cut was atfour o'clock in the afternoon.
We've been writing since 6 40 AMand I, I, yeah, I put every
piece of me to make that cut andI made it at like 359, 35, just
like so dramatic, yeah, um, butit's a feed station.
(12:16):
So I came through, hit the, hitthe checkpoint.
Um, everyone's like hooping andhollering, but in in my brain I
knew I was like I just had tospend every last ounce of energy
um to make this cut at 83.
And so, um made the 83 point or83 mile cut felt good, but I
(12:37):
knew I was wasted.
I knew I was just likecompletely done.
Um, but what, what's, what'smean about this course?
I don't think there's anythingnice about it.
Like the whole course is justkind of sinister, um, but like
glorious and perfect in everyway.
Um is.
After the 83 mile climb, youclimb a mountain called
(13:01):
Sugarloaf, um, which the verybottom of it is a section called
power line where it tops out atlike 25 percent grade so you
come out of that station andthen it's just like, yeah, you
take a little road and then youimmediately like look up at this
thing.
You're like okay here we go.
So I did that, climbed up thewhole thing not all on my bike,
(13:25):
climbed up.
My goal in the steep part wasto climb up some of it on my
bike and I did, but walked therest and then you just kind of
ride and hike up this.
It's three or four miles up tothe peak.
Uh, during that three or fourmiles had I had run into
(13:52):
leadville search and rescuethree different times.
Um, as the day is starting towind down and they're, they're
starting to sweep the course,just making sure that people
aren't out and doing somethingstupid or kind of get hurt.
Uh, the first time they're likeyou need anything, you need to
tow back to town.
How you doing?
I was walking at that point andI looked at my wall, I looked
at like my computer on my bikeand I was like technically, the
last time cut doesn't happen foranother 30 minutes, so you
(14:14):
can't disqualify me like yeah,but I was like uh-uh, so I left
them for the first time.
Second time they came up hey,you need, you need oxygen, you
need water, you need us to giveyou a tow.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I was like you're like yes, yes, but I'm leaving.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, I was like the moment you help me, or like do
anything for me, like it's gameover, I'm disqualified and I was
like no, I don't need anything.
They're like are you sure?
And I was like dude, I'm fine,let me keep going.
They gave you a water bottle Ithink they could have like
helped give me water, but I hadenough water.
Um, all the while, like,obviously, internally, every
(14:47):
time I pedal like my legs arecramping, like I'm dying.
The third time the I get up andover this mountain, come down
the descent, and, um, they areme.
They met me on the road andthis, this time cut is 10
minutes away or whatever.
And they're like okay, dude,they only refer to you as your
(15:11):
bib number, so 1607.
They're like all right, 1607.
We've seen you a couple times,like do you want us to take you
back into town?
What do you need?
Like you have 10 minutes tomake this cut.
I was like I got 10 minutes tomake this cut.
It's a five mile, 1500 footclimb.
Like there's no way I could dothat in 10 minutes.
(15:31):
But this was the third time andI was like I think my crew is
at the next like aid station.
How about I just ride to them?
And they just like take me back.
I had no idea we have no cellservice.
I didn't know where my crew was, me back.
I had no idea we have no cellservice.
I didn't know where my crew was, but I just wanted to keep
riding.
This lady was like 1607.
I was like, okay, bye, and Ijust took off.
(15:53):
At that point I get to the lastclimb and I was just toast.
Obviously, no, the time cut Ihad missed it Ended up going
about 90 miles of the 105.
Um, just over, just over like 12and a half hours, I think, on
the bike.
(16:13):
Um, and that's when, um, I'mnot going to get emotional about
it, but that's when, uh, I sawa car park and and my wife got
out and she was the person tomeet me and I was in good
spirits, like I was bummed, butjust told her I was like I mean
(16:35):
you gave it.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I mean, how could you not be?
You know it's like I.
You know you did something thatno one else in this room could
do.
You know you did something thatno one else in this room could
do that's not true.
You guys could do it, not rightnow, but if you put time I
think I could do it next week.
Yeah, don't do it next week.
I was like are we going to gonow?
I would love to give it anothershot.
(16:57):
You should, That'd be awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
2026 sounds like a good year to try this crazy
thing again I mean, I feel likeeven yeah, this is a stupid
comparison, but it's like I tookthe act in high school right
and then they're like take itagain, you'll get a higher score
.
It's like you don't have tostudy anymore, but just like
(17:24):
knowing what you're walking intolike gives you even more of it.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
There's some of that.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So it's like even just like having done almost all
of it.
Yeah, I feel like you justconquer the world.
Next year, man, go do it.
It's the goal.
Okay, well, I'm proud of you.
It's super cool, man buddy,yeah, um, we have a new segment
on this show in place of themailbag.
(17:50):
We don't do the mailbag anymoreoh, but we have a segment
called mic'd up, which is wheremike gets to talk about anything
he wants mic'd up.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah, oh, mic'd up.
That's only the second timeI've heard him say the name.
In our travels, we just get togo to like a variety of places,
which is honestly something Ithink we're quite fortunate to
do, and one of the things that Ialways think is interesting is
(18:24):
there are a lot of people whoare afraid to drive in Southern
California.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Like our team, doesn't like to drive yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Which you know if you don't enjoy driving in densely
populated areas that have somepretty dense traffic,
understandable.
Populated areas that have somepretty dense traffic
understandable, um, but I havelike driven in a lot of
different places around thecountry just because of the
different like places that weget to travel for work.
Um, and southern californiamakes so much sense in my brain.
Driving around there, um, theinterstate system reasonable,
(19:01):
the way that people drive outthere, predictable, which is
like the safest way to drive inmy opinion.
They still do things likeassertively but, um, it's not
that bad.
You know where I hate driving,oh, joblin no, joblin's fine,
but people don't drive verypredictably in joblin.
They don't um more predictable,though, than chicagoland.
(19:24):
Chicago area drivers areundoubtedly some of the worst
drivers I think I've ever seen.
They make aggressive selfishdecisions without regard.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I mean what people on the road, what person when
they're driving their car, isn'tmaking selfish decisions?
I'd like to think me.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
No, you're all you're looking out for number one.
I'm looking out for what otherpeople are doing on the road.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Oh, that's good like like when, michael, you are a
better driver than I?
Yeah, me too I also learned todrive in florida, though, which
is like the place where I meanwe also not a great place to
drive well, here's the thingabout flor You're talking about
like things that are reliableand predictable, and everybody,
like people from Chicago retireto Florida, but people from New
(20:14):
York also retire to Florida, andpeople from North Carolina
retire to Florida, and everybodyjust brings their crappy
driving habits all to the sameplace.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It's a traffic rat king.
It is a traffic rat king.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, it is a traffic rat king, yeah, and that is
where I learned how to drive,and uh, anyway, I believe you,
though I believe you thatchicago is terrible.
I don't know that.
I actually don't know that.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
I've ever driven in chicago it's terrible, I hate it
you would, you would legit sayover like dfw area yeah, wow,
yep d to use.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I don't love texas drivers texas is a lot of people
in and from texas.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
That I love, but but when we're talking about how
people from texas drive, is whatI'm saying, you know yeah I
mean, that's the caveat forchicago area drivers, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Just want to make sure I'm not saying that I hate
people so the point of today'siteration of Mic'd Up is that if
you live in the Chicagolandarea and you drive a car, get it
together for the love.
Be better.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
We love you out here, but like we don't love the way
you drive, Do better.
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Or get on the orange line.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
That would be, so terrible.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So the L is great in chicago like driving from the
getting from the airport intotown and then their public
transportation is all great.
So next time you go, I likewalking around downtown chicago.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Yeah you know like it's, it's fun, it's a beautiful
city, um, but the way thatpeople drive, it's just.
But when you know, when I'm incalifornia, I have never
struggled to change lanes.
I've never, never struggled tolike get to where I need to be
because when I turn on myblinker, the other drivers will
respect that I'm trying to moveover.
But not in Chicagoland.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
But not in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Man, it's dangerous out there.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
It's a doggy dog world.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
It's a doggy dog world.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
A doggy dog, a doggy dog world.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Michael, thanks for another successful Mic'd Up.
Let's head over to myconversation with Jeremy.
Jeremy, it's good to see yourface.
We got to spend a lot of timetogether this summer.
That was great, and this feelslike a reunion.
You know, I'm happy to see you.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yep for sure it's going to be good.
So we went to Spain together.
We did a move together, we dida mix together.
Power rank them.
Oh, those three, yeah Well Imean, I want to know
definitively like what is thehighest of your rad experiences
(22:46):
but also your CIY experiences?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I don't know that just changed the whole.
Also, your CIY experiences Idon't know that just changed the
whole idea with the Bradexperiences.
Yeah, I definitely think Spainwas like I don't know how.
I mean Spain's just sointentional and you're so close
and I don't know how you couldbeat that Doing Jesus stuff on a
different continent.
I don't know.
I think that's got to be numberone.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
That's pretty cool, yeah.
And then you were only at likeone day of mix.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
So I was about to rank that as the next best Brad
experience.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I deserved that I deserved that.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
What's crazy is, if I had been there, we would have
been together, Like you and Noahand a couple other people were,
was like what 15 straight daysyou were together.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, because I flew from Spain to direct mix and
flow, which was a mistake.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Our team was there with you 24 hours later.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, which was wild.
It was so fun.
You have a great team, greatthings going on there at
Christchurch.
I'm really excited to hear alittle bit about it and how it
plays into this conversationabout exegetical teaching.
So people have already heardcontext for you our episode
about topical teaching with DJ.
(24:01):
It was great, and so we're justgoing to kind of look at the
other side of that coin and say,I mean, it really is as simple.
As I sent you a question and Isaid do you prefer topical or
exegetical teaching?
You said exegetical.
Why was that your answer?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Well, I mean, ok, yeah.
So first of all, this is I'lljust answer this one briefly
here, but it's 2025 and you'reusually either all for or all
against something and I'm notthat like.
It's not that I'm anti-topical,I'm just really pro exegetical.
So it's not anyway.
But I would say in a nutshellyour question is why exegetical?
(24:44):
I think my briefest possibleanswer that I can go into way
more detail my briefest answerwould be I just want to get back
to doing God's word and onetraining young people to rely on
God's word rather than on thecommunicator of God's word, and
(25:04):
getting them to grow up in aworld, in a world where they get
to learn how to dig for theirown food, so to speak, that they
uh don't rely on somebody elseto make it catchy or clever or
uh find stuff that only fits andonly applies to them, but they
have to find the truth and uhdoing that to get back to God's
word.
I got a bunch of little reasonswhy I think it's good for youth
(25:27):
pastors specifically and canmake their job easier and more
effective.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
We'll get into all of that.
I'm really you.
That is not the direction thatI thought you were going to go,
interestingly, so I kind of wantto.
So so you're saying that youfeel like topical teaching is
more conducive to, likepersonality driven ministry type
of thing?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, I think it's not only yeah, you can like to
go to the extreme.
Yep A, like celebrity pastor, ismore likely to be a topical
teacher than an exegeticalteacher, it's at least a
slippery slope, it's at leastrisky of that and and and you
can like topical you can moredirectly target your audience,
(26:09):
which I think would be maybe thebest argument for topical
teaching is that you can targetyour audience.
But I think the flip side ofthat coin is that you too much
target your audience and youdon't give them real the
vegetables of the food that they, that they might actually need,
that they don't know that theyneed and it just becomes it's a
slippery slope.
That would be, that would bemine.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, so I know that you are overseeing a lot of
different ministries atChristchurch.
Now I want to talk kind of like, if we can hone in specifically
on student ministry, where doesstudent ministry start at
Christchurch?
Like grade wise, sorry.
No it starts at sixth grade, um.
So maybe we can like also leakinto that like preteen area as
well a little bit Um.
But I'm curious how this likeplays out as you guys are
(26:53):
thinking about.
I mean, we're at the fall, youguys are at the beginning of a
cycle, um, that's going to lasta year in your student ministry.
I'm curious how your philosophypractically kind of plays out
as you're figuring all of thatout.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah, so like I can give you an example.
So our student team right nowis doing Paul's prison letters
over the course of a 16.
So the whole semester is Paul'sprison letters.
They're calling it like lettersfrom a cell and so it's like
all the what is it I don't evenknow right now Four or five
letters that he- Ephesians,Philippians, Colossians,
(27:26):
Philemon, I think.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Look at that.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah, uh, that sounds dead on.
So is that right I?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
checked out in my brain.
Let's go with it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So somebody will correct it Um but uh, yeah but
so, yeah, so they uh, they'reworking through each one of
those letters chapter by chapter, verse by verse.
But they also make it thematic,Like they're actually doing it.
They're paralleling Paul'sletters from a cell to Dietrich
(27:57):
Bonhoeffer's letters from a celland so, like, each week there's
another letter from Bonhoefferto the church and they're like
kind of paralleling that andusing some of Bonhoeffer's
language to drive whether it'stheology, to make it a little
bit more modern of an example.
So it's not like it's notthematic, but each week they get
to dive into a specific text.
(28:19):
They get to therefore allowGod's words to drive the theme
that they're talking about.
It forces students to not onlyget in their Bibles but bring
their Bibles, forces them toallow God's word to be what
teaches them, what grows them,rather than a youth pastor's
catchy phrase.
There's never a point wherethat's kind of the main thread
(28:42):
of the text.
The main thread of the text iswhat God is kind of using that
for.
It allows them to run afterhard conversations too.
Um, like a couple I know willcome up like bigger
conversations.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Uh, they are just like you.
You make it.
You have it right there to talkabout, cause it's like well,
this is next.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
So we're talking about like like it forces you as
you're reading the text oh,this thing just came up.
They had just came up.
They did a conversation onpredestination because it came
up and so like, otherwise, thatmight be a thing that you well,
let's just not read those coupleverses.
You know, like where Pauladdresses whatever.
(29:23):
But well now you can't justread over and be like ah, your
small group leader will talkabout that, you know so.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I think horrible idea .
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, I know Right.
So so they have like several ofthese things that they're doing
, like these little furtherconversations on um.
That might not even be a partof the message, but come up in
the text that they don't want toavoid.
So we're going to have a realconversation about this or about
this, or in what, uh like, inwhat context are those
conversations happening?
(29:53):
The team came up with an ideathat I was excited about.
Like they'll, they'll preachthrough them.
But then also after the smallgroup time, I could explain the
setup.
But after the small group timethey're also providing like an
optional hey, do you want tocome back and have a further
whether it's theologicalconversation?
There's one about sexualitycoming up that like it comes up
in the text, and they're like,hey, we're going to bring in an
(30:15):
expert to dive a little bitdeeper into this and, like, the
majority of the students staylike because they want to, to
dive into that thing.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
So that's cool.
Um so like, take a step back inthe calendar with me a little
bit and you're kind of likelanding on this idea of doing
the prison epistles, which isgreat.
Um, was that a conversationthat started with hey, we really
(30:45):
want to hit on these things andthis is the place in scripture
where they're found.
Or was it like we haven'ttalked about these four books of
the Bible in a long time andwe're going to do it?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, I would say a little bit of both, but more the
latter than the first.
We are definitely.
We're putting on the whiteboardand it's like, okay, we haven't
done an Old Testament book in aminute.
What are some Old Testamentbooks that and this is where
that might come into play whatare some that could ring true?
They're going to do Esther, Ibelieve, next semester.
(31:17):
So, like you know, wepurposefully do a gospel like
every three years.
So like it is way more of a hey, we haven't hit a prophetic
kind of text in a minute.
Let's go back to that, orhistory books Like um, we
haven't done that.
Um, one of my favorite ones waswas judges, and we did judges
(31:39):
for really no, no great reasonother than we're like dude,
there's some crazy stories andjudges and two.
You could probably compare itto our world today, but we're
just going to go verse by versethrough the book of Judges and
line it up with modern context.
So, yeah, it's definitely moreof hey, we just want to do
(32:00):
sections of scripture books ofthe Bible.
Where is God leading our team?
What's he drawing us to?
And then, once we kind of getclose, it's like, oh, actually,
yeah, we could pull on thisthread, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, so you kind of hit on this a little bit.
The argument for topicalteaching, I think, in student
ministry revolves really aroundtwo things.
One is these are very specificpeople living in a very specific
time in their life and we wantto make sure that we're saying
things that resonate with them.
(32:34):
But I think the the other sideof that coin, of the same coin,
is um, there are a lot of peoplein a lot of contexts that don't
see kids consistently and theywant to make sure that, like if
a student comes one week with afriend and then they don't see
that student again for fourweeks or six weeks, that it like
(32:55):
make sense for them to like beable to like kind of plug it,
plug in and whatever and thatthey're speaking yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, um, whereas, like,if we're on chapter four of
Ephesians, miranda and I walk inlike there's a whole bunch of
context that I've missed, do youguys?
(33:15):
I don't know how you woulddescribe your context, honestly.
So maybe we need to have thatconversation, but are you guys
thinking about that at all?
Or is that just like?
Hey, we know that that's thedownside of doing this and we're
leaning into it.
We're rocking and rolling.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yeah, yeah, both of those, but like I, I think I
would lean to I'm if we had anyconversation about youth
ministry at all.
I would be long game over shortgame in like every context.
That's probably not true, but ina lot of just stick with it,
just yeah, that was definitiveanyway, um, but like I'm just
(33:52):
for the, the, the long game, andI I could, I could make the
argument right now the topicalin the short term could be the
best in like a vacuum for smallwindow of time.
Like I could make that case.
I think it's more about thespiritual development over the
long haul, and so therefore, yes, I do think there is a little
(34:14):
bit of a hey, somebody couldjump in in the middle and not
fully get the context or thedepth of what we're looking to
Now.
I would say, at the same time,I think there's a generation
increasingly craving real,authentic.
Just tell me what God says,just give me the real thing.
(34:35):
And so, actually, while astudent might be coming in and
they might not, I don't know,yeah, they might be we might be
in Ephesians 3 and they missed 1and 2.
And so they might be behind theeight ball a little bit.
I think students areincreasingly just drawn to they
dug in yeah, this guy isn'ttelling me something I want to
(34:58):
hear exactly, and it's not evenlike yeah it's not even like
trying to be all trendy and it'snot even trying to be like all
teenager-y I just made that,that word up, I think but like
it's not.
It's not necessarily justtrying to chase a trend or a fad
.
Like this felt like the realthing and so I would.
I would just desire to elevatethat over.
(35:21):
Yeah, we might get somebody.
25% of the time, of course, wewould do the normal things, and
that's where we bring the themesin.
One of our, one of our bigthings is we want to actually
say the same thing for 16straight weeks.
We're going to put differentlenses on it, but like we want
to drive home a big idea for 16weeks.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So what can you give?
Can you like speak about whatthat actually is right now?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah, so well, I mentioned judges.
Let me give you that one.
So, in the letters from a cell,our team is kind of just into
that and so we're still kind ofdrawing out some of those themes
.
I think if our team was on thiscall, I think they could tell
you what it already is.
But judges easy example.
I just know this one like theback of my hand.
(36:08):
There's a phrase in judges thatpops up I don't know four or
five, maybe six times.
Uh, that basically talks aboutin those days, israel had no
King, and so everybody did asthey saw fit.
That's like the phrase.
And it's like when you removethe King off his throne, then
everybody does whatever the heckthey want to do.
(36:30):
And where does that end?
Judges ends in pain, suffering,destruction.
Every single time the throne,it all, falls apart.
(36:50):
That, like Jesus, is thelinchpin of our lives.
And when you take him off thethrone of your life, it goes
through this cycle and judges of, of, of falling, and then
repentance, and then Jesusrestores, and then we get
comfortable and we fall, andthen we repent, and so that was
like a thread that we pulled onevery single week.
So even if you were there only,let's say, four of the 16, you
(37:10):
were still four times, you gotthe heartbeat of the book of
Judges.
And so I know, in Letters of aCell right now, they're doing
that with suffering and they'retalking about how we suffer well
, for the sake of the gospel,and they're pulling on major
threads that we drive home for along period of time, which,
like what speaks better to lifein our world today.
They're pulling on majorthreads that we drive home for
for a long period of time which,like what?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
what speaks better to life in our world today?
You know what I mean.
Like it almost circles backaround to like accomplishing
some of the same wins thattopical accomplishes, but yeah
but it's not.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
And again, this is where I would just say but it
doesn't to a teenager, itdoesn't feel like a youth pastor
came up with something thatapplies to their world.
It is God's word that is thesame yesterday, today and
forever.
That is driving the truth thatI am consuming and being
transformed by.
So I think that's an importantdistinction that's an important
(38:12):
distinction.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, it's funny because, like, I have a group of
freshman guys that I lead, thatpeople who listen to this
podcast faithful, you're tiredof hearing about.
But um, they are like I Imight've said this before on the
on the podcast but um, they, ifI can get them to like do their
most authentic laugh, they'velost.
(38:33):
You know, like they don't wantto betray any kind of like
emotion Like they, they like meand I think they like being
around me, but they're stillvery much like I want to make
sure that you know that you'renot clever Right, which is good,
you know, it's good for me.
They're very dry and it's veryfunny, but it's like that same
(38:56):
principle almost kind of appliesto what you're saying, where
it's like I don't want to beinfluenced.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
You know, I just want whatever is true.
You know, I just want whateveris true, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
And I just think how, if, if we could instill that
when they're 12, 15, 17, like,how does that change their
spiritual growth going forward,like into adulthood?
Yeah, how does it change theway they engage with the church
in in college?
How does it?
And change the way they engagewith god's word as they grow and
(39:29):
as they develop?
And so I think again, that'spart of the long game of we're
training them to seek God'struth in the right ways, in the
right times, from the rightsources.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
So that's kind of subtle underlying underlying,
yeah, um, so this is when you,when you think about like scope,
you kind of talked about likeall right, we're gonna do this
because we haven't done this ina while, we're gonna do this
because we haven't done this ina while.
Is there any kind of at christchurch, like if a kid goes from
(40:06):
sixth grade through 12th grade,like they're going to get
everything, or is it a littlebit more like yeah, I don't know
how to ask it in a way that'snot incriminating.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I think that is a for Christ Church.
That is a work in progress.
That is a thing that we dreamof long-term.
Our kids ministry has that.
They, they do um, they're thecurriculum they use is the Bible
all the way through in threeyears.
So they literally rinse andrepeat every three years and
they just keep going um, everyevery three years through the
(40:43):
through the thing and students,we have just kind of overlaid a
(41:04):
couple big things that we wantto be true, like gospel, every
three years.
What are we doing next semester?
They have like the previousfive semesters or whatever it
might be on the board behind itso that they can see hey, we've
kind of been missing this, this,this kind of thing.
That's how we ended up doing a.
We did a series called summerin the Psalms because we just
had missed that like thread ofof scripture, and so we, we
(41:28):
dream of having a larger hey,let's do old, new, old new
gospel, whatever it might be.
But I don't think we we haven'tgotten there yet and we've kind
of just kind of been relying onhey, let's look at what the
gaps we've missed and let's givestudents the scope of scripture
so that they can see the threadof God's redemptive plan for
(41:49):
creation over the whole thing,Through all of it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, yeah.
But also, like I mean, if youget a kid that comes up in sixth
grade that's been in elementaryfor a while, they like already
have the foundation.
Yep, I mean if they, if they dokindergarten through fifth
grade, they're going all the waythrough twice.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
My, so my, my daughter, we, uh, my daughter is
in first grade, one of mydaughters in first grade.
He was at a COI move with methis this summer and happened to
be there the day that they gotkingdom worker cards and she
asked if she could get one and Iwas like uh, dude, that means I
gotta do whatever you know,it's like when your kid asked if
they can get a dog and saywe've done this Anyway.
So she got a cool one.
She got one that was like goinga prayer walk with 10 different
(42:30):
people or whatever, and we hadbeen talking about prayer
walking because of Spain anddoing all that as a part of and
get that engaged trip and andall that, and so it was awesome.
Well, uh, she asked if we couldgo on a prayer walk the other.
The other night we are praying.
As we're walking, a mom with aholding a baby walks by us and
she is praying out loud, like aloud enough that I'm
(42:51):
uncomfortable, you know, like,like.
This is great.
I admire your confidence.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
But yes, like how?
How do I?
Speaker 3 (42:59):
tell her don't pray so loud, anyway, you don't he's
praying for you, right, I didn'the's praying for this lady.
we're walking by and she says Ijust pray that this baby
wouldn't be like mephibosheth.
And I was like like who?
And she said Mephibosheth.
And I was like are you sayingMephibosheth thought about
(43:29):
Mephibosheth in 15 years?
So like I don't know.
But she was praying that hewouldn't be crippled, that this
man was just like where did you?
And she was like we weretalking about it at church and
about how, about how Davidwanted to honor Jonathan and I
was like cool team.
Cause you just remembered moreof the story than I did, so
that's incredible.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
So I do want to kind of go back to the context thing
because, um, I'm fromJacksonville.
Jacksonville is a city with anidentity crisis in a lot of ways
.
It's like are we Southern?
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, are we Florida.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Georgia.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Are we crackheads?
I don't know, um, but it's like, yeah, I mean when I was
growing up there, whichobviously it's been years and
years and years, but like weused to call it Southeast
Georgia, which is like well,that's how you kind of referred
to it as like this is super.
I don't know if you feel likeyou're doing ministry in like a
(44:22):
Bible belty culture.
I like how does that feel toyou?
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Yeah, I would say.
Well, I mean, I grew up in theMidwest, so like, Evansville,
Indiana.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
I know let's go now.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
So, like we were, we were churched to the core.
You know, and I do think there'sit's not to that extent here,
but I definitely think in ourcontext we do have a lot of
people that are a part of ourchurch, with deep church
backgrounds, like that is anormally true thing.
(44:55):
Um, I think the thing that wecontinue to stumble on is that
they are theologicallyilliterate in a lot of sense
that they are um, not uh, they.
They have been going to churchand they've been around God's
word, but maybe they have neverdug into it for themselves.
That they are just kind of, andso like that would play into my
(45:16):
case for this exegetical kindof style of hey, the, the, the
gospel will transform your life,Um, but it's as you dig into
the words of God.
It's not just attending churchin and of itself that is going
to transform, um, you into theimage of Christ.
Uh, it's actually going to bedigging in and other things as
(45:38):
well, but, um, by way of hisword and and knowing what he has
called us to, that's going tobe the engine behind that.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Yeah, so do you feel like um a major, like, help me
break down your student ministryfor me.
What percent do you feel like,hey, they are faithful members
of this church.
They've been around for a longtime.
What percentage are you seeingon any given Sunday afternoon or
evening that are like theone-offs came with a friend you
(46:05):
know like help me understandwhat the room looks like.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yeah, I would say I would say 60, 70, 75% are
somewhat churched.
The the thing that we have seenactually in our, in our push of
of getting students back intoGod's word and letting that
transform and then like joiningJesus on mission um, has been a
(46:28):
push that they are more thedrivers of students who are
outside of that realm.
That they are actually notbringing more I almost said the
language they're bringing theirfriends.
I wouldn't say that's the case.
I would actually say they'rediscipling their friends, that
they are now equipped to takeGod's word to their people
(46:50):
rather than bringing theirpeople to hear God's word.
And so, like we're actuallythere's increasingly more
students that are not as church,that are from different
backgrounds, that are showing upbecause somebody has already
led them to Jesus, not becausesomeone brought them to be led
to Jesus.
So it's pretty cool that that'sbeen a fun thing, but like as a
(47:12):
whole I would say we're talking75% of them are from some kind
of a church background or wehave a private school.
So we have 300 middle schooland high school students on our
campus every day.
So like we also have a goodnumber of Christian private
school kids that are gettingchapels.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
The worst kids in the world.
Sometimes, yeah, I'm justkidding no, the worst kids in
the world are the homeschoolers.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
They're the worst, oh trash.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Man you are just firing today.
That was just a shot directlyacross the bow toward Michael.
That wasn't for anybody else,that was just me making fun of
Michael.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Where did you, did you grow up?
In public school, privateschool?
What'd you do me?
Yeah, yeah, I.
Well, I was homeschooledthrough third grade and then I
was so glad you said that.
Well, I could tell by the wayhe reacted that I was like there
was some homeschooling Icouldn't read, so my mom was
like I don't want him to be heldback for six years, so we need
to teach him how to read.
And then yeah, Also another.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Well, just a fun kind of juxtaposition on the podcast
here.
Jeremy Michael has 11 siblingsthat were all homeschooled.
Yeah, so Jeremy is an onlychild.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
That's yeah, I'm an only child.
Yeah, so you basically had yourown university and we can read.
Yeah, oh man, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
That's funny.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
I learned how to memorize cause I couldn't read,
so that was my, that was mydefault.
There you go, that works,that's great.
Um learned how to memorizebecause I couldn't read.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
So that was my, that was my default.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
There you go, that works, that's great yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Um, that was incredible, michael, props to
you, uh, okay.
So, uh, I do, I do kind of wantto.
I mean, I want to be respectfulof your time.
We don't need to sit here andtalk forever.
But I want to dig into to onemore kind of little thing here.
Um, that's based on somethingthat you said that I'm now going
to have to try really hard toremember.
(49:15):
Um, oh, so, exegetical teaching.
Um, it sounds like within that,I want you to clarify something
for me.
You talk a lot about how you'reteaching people how to read the
Bible.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Does that happen?
Is that a byproduct of justteaching the way that you are
teaching, or are you actuallyincorporating like, hey, this is
how we got here into the wholething as well?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Yeah, we're definitely.
I do think it could be a subtlebyproduct, even if you weren't
doing that intentionally, like Ithink it could be.
But we are definitelyincorporating that into, like we
little things One on socialmedia and all other platforms.
We're encouraging students thatthey would read the text before
they come themselves to um.
We are pushing like old school,like it's 1994, that they bring
their Bibles and those thatdon't.
We have Bibles at the door, sowe don't.
(50:19):
We don't have to say, put it upon the screen.
We say open up your Bible towhatever that we are.
That their eyes would go to thetext and not necessarily to a
screen or to a voice on a stage.
When they get back to theirsmall group rooms, they do small
groups with Bibles open andagain the Bible continues to be
(50:40):
the teacher that it continues tobe the thing that is leading
them back towards the truth.
Sometimes our team does weeklydevos that could be a section to
zero in on a little bit more.
So I don't know if thatdirectly answers your question,
but we are definitely trying topurposefully teach them how to
(51:00):
engage with God's word, not justfrom hearing from a stage, but
how it can be actively a part ofall the time.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah, that does partially answer my question.
I want to ask a different way,though.
To what extent are you likeshowing your work?
You know like are, are.
Do your kids?
Are they learning aboutcommentaries and word studies?
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Like are those things that?
Speaker 1 (51:30):
are incorporated, or does that all kind of happen
beneath the surface, on theiceberg, so to speak?
Speaker 3 (51:36):
Yeah, no, that's a great question and I think it
happens more organically.
I would love to say I'm a guythat likes to have a play
written and we run the play andI love to think through all the
X's and O's, right, I don'tthink this is one that we
necessarily think through, but Ithink happens naturally out of
(51:56):
the depth of our own digginginto and then that overflows in
the way that we teach.
So, like a easy example wouldbe, our team loves to randomly
show a Bible project video in inthe middle of a here, a here's
how Paul wrote Ephesians.
So here's this one minute clipthat like informs you on how we
(52:18):
got to this big idea.
Or frequently, like one of ouryouth pastors he's a little bit
more of a nerd than me Like heloves to do the hey, this Greek
word, and I looked that up inthis commentary and this means
that thing.
And so, like teaching them howto look under the look under the
hood, maybe a little bit ofscripture as well.
(52:38):
So I do think that stuffhappens more organically when
you're doing exegetical Um, butI would love to say that we have
a plan to reveal that stuff andmaybe, under the hood to use
your language more than we do.
But I do think it happensconsistently, organically, just
by the model of, of exegeticalteaching.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Yeah.
So I'm trying to listen to thisconversation.
I'm trying to listen to youcritically, Like I'm trying to
find the holes a little bit.
So forgive me for peeling backlike a layer that this is a
half-baked thing, but I dowonder if somebody could listen
(53:21):
to this and think, man, if Iimplemented this, like at my
church, I feel like studentministry could start to feel
very, um, like I could, I couldlose a sense of relationship,
Like it's very school-y.
You know like we're very heavyon like education, theological
(53:45):
literacy, and I just want togive you a chance to speak to
that um because I know frombeing around your group that
like they are very deeplyconnected and in community.
So just kind of speak to that alittle bit.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
Well, yeah, I would, I would, yeah.
First of all, I could make allthe normal arguments here of
that that that it actuallybreeds more conversation, it
breeds more community, it breedsmore togetherness.
I could do all that, but I wouldalso, I think, one key point to
me in all this if I was talkingto a youth pastor, I would say
this doesn't kill yourcreativity, it doesn't kill your
(54:17):
, it actually grows it.
It doesn't hinder your abilityto be engaging or even bring
topical elements into it.
Like, like, you can continue totheme up whatever passage
you're digging into.
Like you can, you can build awhole experience kind of around
the thing that can be engaging,uh, for students that they want
(54:40):
to be a part of that.
That might, uh, get theirbrains to say, oh, this is cool.
Uh, I want to hear what we haveto say about whatever it might
be.
Um, it doesn't mean that youjust have to say like, okay, so
we're doing a study on Exodusthe end like, yeah, like, open
your Bibles, let's go, likethere's still room for yeah,
(55:01):
there, there can be a thematicway that you bring that home,
that that draws them into.
Oh man, I've never like lookedat it through that light.
We did.
We did Joseph one time.
Oh man, I've never like lookedat it through that light.
We did, we did Joseph one time.
And instead of saying we'restudying the end of Genesis, we
we said but God, you know likethis thing is going to happen in
your life, but God will use it,turn it into bring flowers out
(55:24):
of out of graves, kind of kindof language and so like the
whole series is titled but God,and that became like the
language.
It wasn't like.
We never even actually saidwe're doing Genesis, chapters 30
.
What is it?
36 through 50 or whatever.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (55:39):
Yeah, so like we never like use that language, it
was just like we made itthematic, we and so like I think
that's what I would say Like itdoesn't have to be black.
This like dry, like eatingcrackers every day, yeah, you
know yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
So, yeah, yeah, no, that totally makes sense.
So, um, well, I I think thatwe've given people a lot to chew
on here and uh reallyappreciate you taking the time
to hang out with me and uh andtalk through some of this stuff.
I love how deeply you'vethought about all of this and
obviously this is coming from aplace of.
(56:18):
Well, I'll just tell people,like, I asked you to do this
yesterday, like, there was nopreparation.
This is all just like flowingfrom a place of passion and care
, and that's a really of passionand care, yeah, and that's
that's a really neat thing tosee.
So, yeah, yeah, thanks forbeing with me, man.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yeah, I love it.
This is an awesome conversation, so if you ever want to do this
for like 10 hours, I'm in forthat too.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
So sign me up.
Let's get on a plane and goback to Spain.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
All right.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
See ya, bye.
Okay, caleb, we have a new waythat we're closing out episodes.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
We don't have a name for this segment yet.
Oh my gosh, we're letting thelisteners decide, really, yes,
but we do have this board, whoalook at that board.
And I want you to hype up ayouth pastor, and I know that
you've brought a picture to addto the board.
Oh, that's.
Ad the lane hyped up, Addy,which is super cool, yeah.
So here's your pin.
(57:14):
And why don't you tell uswhat's going on over here?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Okay, I have somebody to hype up.
Okay, for the second time.
Number two yeah, I'm going tohype up Walter Schoen from Tulsa
, oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I love Walter.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Some about Walter Tulsa, oklahoma.
I love Walter.
Some about Walter.
There's a couple of things, buthe's going to go right here,
I'm not going to stick a pin inhis head.
A couple of things.
So I think Walter's a reallygreat youth pastor from the
Tulsa area Actually just movedchurches this summer, but just
the way that he, that he loveshis family, well, um, a little
(57:56):
bit about Walter and what hisfamily is going through there.
Their son has been battlingcancer for a number of years, um
, and has spent a good amount oftime in Memphis at St Jude, um,
and, to be completely honest,the way that Walter is a dad to
(58:19):
his son and a husband to hiswife is something I look up to a
whole lot.
The joy that he still has inthe midst of really tough
moments and just the way that hecares deeply for the Lord is
really great.
Also, he's an Oklahoma Soonerfan.
So Boomer Sooner, walter, yougot that on the board.
It's absolute.
(58:39):
Put those guns away, absolutelynot them.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
Walter was in my wilderness group.
Speaker 2 (58:47):
I love Walter a whole lot and he is just a real
treasure.
A treasure.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
So anytime I can shout out, Walter.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
I absolutely will shout him out.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
All right, thanks, caleb.
Quick reminder if you have agood story about CIY or about
youth ministry that you thinkwould be encouraging to our
listeners, you can type it out.
You can send it to podcast atciycom.
I'll read it on air as written.
So huge thank you to Jeremy andto Caleb for joining me today.
Today's episode was produced byMichael Hester, lauren Bryan
(59:19):
and myself.
Two weeks from now, we aregoing to begin a new
conversation about whether weshould be integrating students
into our kind of adult servicesand into normal church life or
be emphasizing creatingstudent-only spaces.
So we're going to be talking toTito Lozano about creating
(59:41):
intentional student-only spaces.
If you don't want to miss that,be sure to subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts.
We'll see you next time.
Hi, I'm Brad Warren.
This is Beyond the Event, ayouth ministry podcast presented
by Christ in Youth, where wehelp you maintain momentum
between the mountaintops.
Our guest today is JeremyStevenson.
Jeremy is the formations pastorat Christ Church in my hometown
of Jacksonville, Florida.
Jeremy and I are going to behaving part two of our
conversation about topicalversus exegetical teaching by
(00:28):
talking about the exegeticalside of things.
Before we dig into that, though, quick note this episode is
going to feel a little bitdifferent than other episodes.
We had some schedulingconflicts, some weird things, so
we had to kind of break thingsup a little bit more than we
typically would.
So Caleb, who is my co-host, isnot going to be joining me for
(00:51):
the interview, but we do have aconversation with CIO's director
of Mix, Caleb DeRoyne.
So we're going to go to thatand then you'll hear from Jeremy
later.
I'm joined by my good friend,my favorite blonde, Caleb
Deroyne.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Here I am.
I'm just fired up to be hereWelcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh, I love it so much .
Caleb, let's talk about yoursummer pre-Colorado for a second
Pre-Colorado.
And then I want to talk aboutColorado.
I'm just how like.
You got to go to a bunch ofmixes, you got to have a good
time, you got to hang out with alot of cool people.
I did what is a standout memoryfor you from this summer?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I think for me, my favorite event of the summer had
to be we did a new location inTexas this year at Stephen F
Austin University In Nacogdoches, Nacognowhere.
They can call it Nacognowhere,but there's a Taco Bueno across
the street from the dorms inRetro.
(01:57):
That's not nothing.
I ate it a lot.
No, it's been a while just withmy role.
Um, I have to do certain eventssometimes and there are certain
times that I have to go tocertain places, but I got to go
to a first year event, which istypically smaller, um, and that
was really good.
(02:18):
It was.
It was fun to see uh mix withjust a couple hundred people and
getting to know all of theyouth pastors by name and like
getting coffee with all of themand hanging out with all of them
, because I'm not running aroundand putting out every fire on
the world which sometimes seemsto be at bigger events, and so
(02:40):
that was a really sweet time forme this summer to just really
like be at a mix that nothingreally crazy happened, we just
had a good time.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, so new location Stephen F Austin University.
Yep, are we going back?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
We're so back.
Should people go?
Absolutely, was it good, was itfun?
Yeah, what did you?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
love about mixing.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Stephen F Austin Um it's June in Texas, yeah, so it
was a little hot.
It honestly wasn't as bad as Ithought it would be.
The weather ended up beingpretty mild.
It rained quite a bit.
Um, Stephen F Austin, I wouldsay we got there and even
(03:27):
learned more of what we could dothere in terms of like
recreation and some fun stuffthat they have on campus.
Um, their rooms are reallyreally great in terms of like
having the event, like theprogramming side of it, um, and
also, yeah, there's just morethat we can do on college
campuses than we can do on oncamp sometimes, and this one is
(03:51):
it just feels really safe.
Like Nacogdoches is a smalltown, but the campus was big
enough to explore right and soI'm excited.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's not like we're having mix at NYUyu or something
.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
No, yeah, yeah although mix at nyu oh my gosh
me what's good?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
can I direct it?
No, absolutely not.
I would come.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, you can come uh run slides, uh I would I would
do that no, I really think.
Uh, I think it was cool.
Um, as we, as we continue togrow, finding a new spot in
texas just to like help morepeople be able to experience mix
in texas we have so many greatchurches down there too, so many
(04:35):
, so many good churches and itwas good like I got to hang out
with my boy, richard hamiltonyeah, like me and rip got coffee
and just like talked about lifefor a long time and it was just
like man.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
It felt good to do that, yeah so well, I'm glad you
had a good time there and I'mglad that mix went well there,
because that is a uh, a greatspot and people who are down
there should check it out.
So, um, okay, now let's talkabout the colorado part of your
summer yeah, so last time you'reon this podcast, we actually
talked a little bit about, yeah,so an exciting thing that you
were getting ready to do, yeah,um, which was do the leadville
(05:12):
100 uh bike event yep, what dothey call it?
mb, mtb mountain bike gosh, um,and you were like working hard
and preparing for that and got anew bike and the whole thing.
So it's happened now.
Last week before you right, butwhich, like before you get into
, like your experience.
(05:33):
I did a little bit of researchabout the ledville 100 mtb crazy
stuff.
Okay, first of all, 12 000 feet, did I read?
Is there 12,000 feet ofelevation change, yeah,
throughout the course of therace yeah.
It is over 100 miles 105.
105 miles In 2024,.
(05:53):
Last year, I believe, only 51%of the people who entered the
race finished it.
Something like that In 2023,two years ago, 44% of the people
that entered the race finishedit.
It like you signed up to dosomething impossible, crazy hard
I'm super proud of you for evensigning up to do it.
(06:16):
Tell me about your experience.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, so this summer, uh, was one of the more chaotic
summers of my entire life.
Uh, I either drove to a bunchof events so I could bring my
bike, or I brought my bike withme all around the country to get
rides in early in the morningbefore the adult leader meeting,
which is just chaos.
And so I went out there acouple of weeks ago to try to
(06:43):
get acclimated, um, tried toreally have myself prepared for
what, yeah, you said is justlike a really crazy feat of
trying to ride your bike atcrazy elevation.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Um, and so not just at crazy elevation, but like um
and so not just at crazyelevation, but like through a
crazy dynamic of elevation.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, yeah, so it's based out of leadville, colorado
, and if you know anything aboutit, that is a town that sits it
right over 10 000 feet.
Um, people shouldn't live there.
It's not good for their bodies,science has proven it.
Yeah, but they do, and I'mgrateful that they do.
But, yeah, what is today TodayThursday?
Today is Thursday.
(07:32):
We did the race Saturday, sofive days, a few days ago, yeah,
five days ago, at 6.40 in themorning, in Leadville, colorado,
I towed the start line and gaveit my best shot.
How'd it go?
Well, for all of those who willlisten to this and are just
(07:54):
waiting on the edge of theirseat, guess what Didn't finish.
The goal was to finish.
To be completely honest, I hadput in a ton of work this summer
, um, to finish this thing.
Um, and for the first it's evencrazy to say it like this for
the first 75 miles of this race,I felt like a superhero.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I feel exhausted after driving 75 miles.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Um, my nutrition was really really good.
Our plan was really really good.
Our plan was really really good.
My coach and I had made a tonof really good decisions on
pacing and everything feltreally good.
The crux of the race so it's105 miles, but it's 52 and a
half miles out and 52 and a halfmiles back.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, it's out and a half milesout and 52, and a half miles
(08:43):
back.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I didn't know that.
Yeah, it's out and back.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
The middle of the race, like the middle 14 miles
is an up and down from 9,000feet to 12,500.
So it's a 3,500 foot climb,seven-ish miles up, seven-ish
miles down.
That's the crux of the race,that's the turnaround point.
You ride your bike, or walkyour bike all the way up to 12,
(09:08):
five spot and they're like okay,yeah, there's a little loop.
You go, you like hand a bottleand you're like can you refill
that with water?
And you go around this loop andthey're like here's your water.
And you're like thanks, um, uh,yeah, above tree line.
I wish I think there are acouple of things that I wish
like I wish I would've lookedaround.
I didn't, cause I was like ohno, I got to keep going, like
let's keep going.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And also, if I see a single cloud move, I'm going to
throw up.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, I am almost on the surface of the sun.
Um, and so, yeah, for the first75 miles felt really really
good.
Um, there's something thathappens when you ride for that
long that your mind is just notas sharp, and so I made a pretty
(10:12):
big time cuts throughout thewhole race.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So at 40 miles you have to make it there by a
certain time or you get pulledoff the course.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Got it Like a certain time of day Correct, Like 4
o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, you know whatever, yeah, yeah, okay.
So from the start line line youhave four hours to make it 40
miles okay um, which is still aton of climbing, a ton of
getting there.
so got the first time cut, feltreally good, got there with like
30 something minutes to spare.
Then you go do the big climb atthe 63 mile cut, have that's
(10:44):
another time cut.
Then at the 83 mile, there'sanother time cut.
At the 92 mile, there's anothertime cut, and then obviously
you have the finish after the 63.
But started thinking throughwhere the next cut was, knowing
(11:07):
it was at 83 miles, butconvincing myself, just while
you're alone on the bike with nomusic because they don't want
you to wear headphones, Istarted thinking it was
somewhere else than where it was.
And when I pulled up to wherethis, it was one of the aid
stations, so people were there.
I had a lady look at me and belike you have 19 minutes till
(11:27):
the cut and I was like that wasodd that she told me that,
because the cuts right here.
Why would she tell me?
I have like a hundred feet togo.
Why would you tell me that?
Uh, it turns out it wasn't.
It was like six or seven milesaway.
Um, and so I had 19 minutes toride, like six miles, six, seven
(11:52):
miles, uh, which means I had tojust empty everything out, um,
and so that 83 mile cut was atfour o'clock in the afternoon.
We've been writing since 6 40 AMand I, I, yeah, I put every
piece of me to make that cut andI made it at like 359, 35, just
like so dramatic, yeah, um, butit's a feed station.
(12:16):
So I came through, hit the, hitthe checkpoint.
Um, everyone's like hooping andhollering, but in in my brain I
knew I was like I just had tospend every last ounce of energy
um to make this cut at 83.
And so, um made the 83 point or83 mile cut felt good, but I
(12:37):
knew I was wasted.
I knew I was just likecompletely done.
Um, but what, what's, what'smean about this course?
I don't think there's anythingnice about it.
Like the whole course is justkind of sinister, um, but like
glorious and perfect in everyway.
Um is.
After the 83 mile climb, youclimb a mountain called
(13:01):
Sugarloaf, um, which the verybottom of it is a section called
power line where it tops out atlike 25 percent grade so you
come out of that station andthen it's just like, yeah, you
take a little road and then youimmediately like look up at this
thing.
You're like okay here we go.
So I did that, climbed up thewhole thing not all on my bike,
(13:25):
climbed up.
My goal in the steep part wasto climb up some of it on my
bike and I did, but walked therest and then you just kind of
ride and hike up this.
It's three or four miles up tothe peak.
Uh, during that three or fourmiles had I had run into
(13:52):
leadville search and rescuethree different times.
Um, as the day is starting towind down and they're, they're
starting to sweep the course,just making sure that people
aren't out and doing somethingstupid or kind of get hurt.
Uh, the first time they're likeyou need anything, you need to
tow back to town.
How you doing?
I was walking at that point andI looked at my wall, I looked
at like my computer on my bikeand I was like technically, the
last time cut doesn't happen foranother 30 minutes, so you
(14:14):
can't disqualify me like yeah,but I was like uh-uh, so I left
them for the first time.
Second time they came up hey,you need, you need oxygen, you
need water, you need us to giveyou a tow.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I was like you're like yes, yes, but I'm leaving.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, I was like the moment you help me, or like do
anything for me, like it's gameover, I'm disqualified and I was
like no, I don't need anything.
They're like are you sure?
And I was like dude, I'm fine,let me keep going.
They gave you a water bottle Ithink they could have like
helped give me water, but I hadenough water.
Um, all the while, like,obviously, internally, every
(14:47):
time I pedal like my legs arecramping, like I'm dying.
The third time the I get up andover this mountain, come down
the descent, and, um, they areme.
They met me on the road andthis, this time cut is 10
minutes away or whatever.
And they're like okay, dude,they only refer to you as your
(15:11):
bib number, so 1607.
They're like all right, 1607.
We've seen you a couple times,like do you want us to take you
back into town?
What do you need?
Like you have 10 minutes tomake this cut.
I was like I got 10 minutes tomake this cut.
It's a five mile, 1500 footclimb.
Like there's no way I could dothat in 10 minutes.
(15:31):
But this was the third time andI was like I think my crew is
at the next like aid station.
How about I just ride to them?
And they just like take me back.
I had no idea we have no cellservice.
I didn't know where my crew was, me back.
I had no idea we have no cellservice.
I didn't know where my crew was, but I just wanted to keep
riding.
This lady was like 1607.
I was like, okay, bye, and Ijust took off.
(15:53):
At that point I get to the lastclimb and I was just toast.
Obviously, no, the time cut Ihad missed it Ended up going
about 90 miles of the 105.
Um, just over, just over like 12and a half hours, I think, on
the bike.
(16:13):
Um, and that's when, um, I'mnot going to get emotional about
it, but that's when, uh, I sawa car park and and my wife got
out and she was the person tomeet me and I was in good
spirits, like I was bummed, butjust told her I was like I mean
(16:35):
you gave it.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I mean, how could you not be?
You know it's like I.
You know you did something thatno one else in this room could
do.
You know you did something thatno one else in this room could
do that's not true.
You guys could do it, not rightnow, but if you put time I
think I could do it next week.
Yeah, don't do it next week.
I was like are we going to gonow?
I would love to give it anothershot.
(16:57):
You should, That'd be awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
2026 sounds like a good year to try this crazy
thing again I mean, I feel likeeven yeah, this is a stupid
comparison, but it's like I tookthe act in high school right
and then they're like take itagain, you'll get a higher score
.
It's like you don't have tostudy anymore, but just like
(17:24):
knowing what you're walking intolike gives you even more of it.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
There's some of that.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So it's like even just like having done almost all
of it.
Yeah, I feel like you justconquer the world.
Next year, man, go do it.
It's the goal.
Okay, well, I'm proud of you.
It's super cool, man buddy,yeah, um, we have a new segment
on this show in place of themailbag.
(17:50):
We don't do the mailbag anymoreoh, but we have a segment
called mic'd up, which is wheremike gets to talk about anything
he wants mic'd up.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah, oh, mic'd up.
That's only the second timeI've heard him say the name.
In our travels, we just get togo to like a variety of places,
which is honestly something Ithink we're quite fortunate to
do, and one of the things that Ialways think is interesting is
(18:24):
there are a lot of people whoare afraid to drive in Southern
California.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Like our team, doesn't like to drive yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Which you know if you don't enjoy driving in densely
populated areas that have somepretty dense traffic,
understandable.
Populated areas that have somepretty dense traffic
understandable, um, but I havelike driven in a lot of
different places around thecountry just because of the
different like places that weget to travel for work.
Um, and southern californiamakes so much sense in my brain.
Driving around there, um, theinterstate system reasonable,
(19:01):
the way that people drive outthere, predictable, which is
like the safest way to drive inmy opinion.
They still do things likeassertively but, um, it's not
that bad.
You know where I hate driving,oh, joblin no, joblin's fine,
but people don't drive verypredictably in joblin.
They don't um more predictable,though, than chicagoland.
(19:24):
Chicago area drivers areundoubtedly some of the worst
drivers I think I've ever seen.
They make aggressive selfishdecisions without regard.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I mean what people on the road, what person when
they're driving their car, isn'tmaking selfish decisions?
I'd like to think me.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
No, you're all you're looking out for number one.
I'm looking out for what otherpeople are doing on the road.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Oh, that's good like like when, michael, you are a
better driver than I?
Yeah, me too I also learned todrive in florida, though, which
is like the place where I meanwe also not a great place to
drive well, here's the thingabout flor You're talking about
like things that are reliableand predictable, and everybody,
like people from Chicago retireto Florida, but people from New
(20:14):
York also retire to Florida, andpeople from North Carolina
retire to Florida, and everybodyjust brings their crappy
driving habits all to the sameplace.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It's a traffic rat king.
It is a traffic rat king.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, it is a traffic rat king, yeah, and that is
where I learned how to drive,and uh, anyway, I believe you,
though I believe you thatchicago is terrible.
I don't know that.
I actually don't know that.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
I've ever driven in chicago it's terrible, I hate it
you would, you would legit sayover like dfw area yeah, wow,
yep d to use.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I don't love texas drivers texas is a lot of people
in and from texas.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
That I love, but but when we're talking about how
people from texas drive, is whatI'm saying, you know yeah I
mean, that's the caveat forchicago area drivers, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Just want to make sure I'm not saying that I hate
people so the point of today'siteration of Mic'd Up is that if
you live in the Chicagolandarea and you drive a car, get it
together for the love.
Be better.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
We love you out here, but like we don't love the way
you drive, Do better.
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Or get on the orange line.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
That would be, so terrible.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So the L is great in chicago like driving from the
getting from the airport intotown and then their public
transportation is all great.
So next time you go, I likewalking around downtown chicago.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Yeah you know like it's, it's fun, it's a beautiful
city, um, but the way thatpeople drive, it's just.
But when you know, when I'm incalifornia, I have never
struggled to change lanes.
I've never, never struggled tolike get to where I need to be
because when I turn on myblinker, the other drivers will
respect that I'm trying to moveover.
But not in Chicagoland.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
But not in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Man, it's dangerous out there.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
It's a doggy dog world.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
It's a doggy dog world.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
A doggy dog, a doggy dog world.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Michael, thanks for another successful Mic'd Up.
Let's head over to myconversation with Jeremy.
Jeremy, it's good to see yourface.
We got to spend a lot of timetogether this summer.
That was great, and this feelslike a reunion.
You know, I'm happy to see you.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yep for sure it's going to be good.
So we went to Spain together.
We did a move together, we dida mix together.
Power rank them.
Oh, those three, yeah Well Imean, I want to know
definitively like what is thehighest of your rad experiences
(22:46):
but also your CIY experiences?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I don't know that just changed the whole.
Also, your CIY experiences Idon't know that just changed the
whole idea with the Bradexperiences.
Yeah, I definitely think Spainwas like I don't know how.
I mean Spain's just sointentional and you're so close
and I don't know how you couldbeat that Doing Jesus stuff on a
different continent.
I don't know.
I think that's got to be numberone.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
That's pretty cool, yeah.
And then you were only at likeone day of mix.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
So I was about to rank that as the next best Brad
experience.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I deserved that I deserved that.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
What's crazy is, if I had been there, we would have
been together, Like you and Noahand a couple other people were,
was like what 15 straight daysyou were together.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, because I flew from Spain to direct mix and
flow, which was a mistake.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Our team was there with you 24 hours later.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, which was wild.
It was so fun.
You have a great team, greatthings going on there at
Christchurch.
I'm really excited to hear alittle bit about it and how it
plays into this conversationabout exegetical teaching.
So people have already heardcontext for you our episode
about topical teaching with DJ.
(24:01):
It was great, and so we're justgoing to kind of look at the
other side of that coin and say,I mean, it really is as simple.
As I sent you a question and Isaid do you prefer topical or
exegetical teaching?
You said exegetical.
Why was that your answer?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Well, I mean, ok, yeah.
So first of all, this is I'lljust answer this one briefly
here, but it's 2025 and you'reusually either all for or all
against something and I'm notthat like.
It's not that I'm anti-topical,I'm just really pro exegetical.
So it's not anyway.
But I would say in a nutshellyour question is why exegetical?
(24:44):
I think my briefest possibleanswer that I can go into way
more detail my briefest answerwould be I just want to get back
to doing God's word and onetraining young people to rely on
God's word rather than on thecommunicator of God's word, and
(25:04):
getting them to grow up in aworld, in a world where they get
to learn how to dig for theirown food, so to speak, that they
uh don't rely on somebody elseto make it catchy or clever or
uh find stuff that only fits andonly applies to them, but they
have to find the truth and uhdoing that to get back to God's
word.
I got a bunch of little reasonswhy I think it's good for youth
(25:27):
pastors specifically and canmake their job easier and more
effective.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
We'll get into all of that.
I'm really you.
That is not the direction thatI thought you were going to go,
interestingly, so I kind of wantto.
So so you're saying that youfeel like topical teaching is
more conducive to, likepersonality driven ministry type
of thing?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, I think it's not only yeah, you can like to
go to the extreme.
Yep A, like celebrity pastor, ismore likely to be a topical
teacher than an exegeticalteacher, it's at least a
slippery slope, it's at leastrisky of that and and and you
can like topical you can moredirectly target your audience,
(26:09):
which I think would be maybe thebest argument for topical
teaching is that you can targetyour audience.
But I think the flip side ofthat coin is that you too much
target your audience and youdon't give them real the
vegetables of the food that they, that they might actually need,
that they don't know that theyneed and it just becomes it's a
slippery slope.
That would be, that would bemine.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, so I know that you are overseeing a lot of
different ministries atChristchurch.
Now I want to talk kind of like, if we can hone in specifically
on student ministry, where doesstudent ministry start at
Christchurch?
Like grade wise, sorry.
No it starts at sixth grade, um.
So maybe we can like also leakinto that like preteen area as
well a little bit Um.
But I'm curious how this likeplays out as you guys are
(26:53):
thinking about.
I mean, we're at the fall, youguys are at the beginning of a
cycle, um, that's going to lasta year in your student ministry.
I'm curious how your philosophypractically kind of plays out
as you're figuring all of thatout.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah, so like I can give you an example.
So our student team right nowis doing Paul's prison letters
over the course of a 16.
So the whole semester is Paul'sprison letters.
They're calling it like lettersfrom a cell and so it's like
all the what is it I don't evenknow right now Four or five
letters that he- Ephesians,Philippians, Colossians,
(27:26):
Philemon, I think.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Look at that.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah, uh, that sounds dead on.
So is that right I?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
checked out in my brain.
Let's go with it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So somebody will correct it Um but uh, yeah but
so, yeah, so they uh, they'reworking through each one of
those letters chapter by chapter, verse by verse.
But they also make it thematic,Like they're actually doing it.
They're paralleling Paul'sletters from a cell to Dietrich
(27:57):
Bonhoeffer's letters from a celland so, like, each week there's
another letter from Bonhoefferto the church and they're like
kind of paralleling that andusing some of Bonhoeffer's
language to drive whether it'stheology, to make it a little
bit more modern of an example.
So it's not like it's notthematic, but each week they get
to dive into a specific text.
(28:19):
They get to therefore allowGod's words to drive the theme
that they're talking about.
It forces students to not onlyget in their Bibles but bring
their Bibles, forces them toallow God's word to be what
teaches them, what grows them,rather than a youth pastor's
catchy phrase.
There's never a point wherethat's kind of the main thread
(28:42):
of the text.
The main thread of the text iswhat God is kind of using that
for.
It allows them to run afterhard conversations too.
Um, like a couple I know willcome up like bigger
conversations.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Uh, they are just like you.
You make it.
You have it right there to talkabout, cause it's like well,
this is next.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
So we're talking about like like it forces you as
you're reading the text oh,this thing just came up.
They had just came up.
They did a conversation onpredestination because it came
up and so like, otherwise, thatmight be a thing that you well,
let's just not read those coupleverses.
You know, like where Pauladdresses whatever.
(29:23):
But well now you can't justread over and be like ah, your
small group leader will talkabout that, you know so.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I think horrible idea .
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, I know Right.
So so they have like several ofthese things that they're doing
, like these little furtherconversations on um.
That might not even be a partof the message, but come up in
the text that they don't want toavoid.
So we're going to have a realconversation about this or about
this, or in what, uh like, inwhat context are those
conversations happening?
(29:53):
The team came up with an ideathat I was excited about.
Like they'll, they'll preachthrough them.
But then also after the smallgroup time, I could explain the
setup.
But after the small group timethey're also providing like an
optional hey, do you want tocome back and have a further
whether it's theologicalconversation?
There's one about sexualitycoming up that like it comes up
in the text, and they're like,hey, we're going to bring in an
(30:15):
expert to dive a little bitdeeper into this and, like, the
majority of the students staylike because they want to, to
dive into that thing.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
So that's cool.
Um so like, take a step back inthe calendar with me a little
bit and you're kind of likelanding on this idea of doing
the prison epistles, which isgreat.
Um, was that a conversationthat started with hey, we really
(30:45):
want to hit on these things andthis is the place in scripture
where they're found.
Or was it like we haven'ttalked about these four books of
the Bible in a long time andwe're going to do it?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, I would say a little bit of both, but more the
latter than the first.
We are definitely.
We're putting on the whiteboardand it's like, okay, we haven't
done an Old Testament book in aminute.
What are some Old Testamentbooks that and this is where
that might come into play whatare some that could ring true?
They're going to do Esther, Ibelieve, next semester.
(31:17):
So, like you know, wepurposefully do a gospel like
every three years.
So like it is way more of a hey, we haven't hit a prophetic
kind of text in a minute.
Let's go back to that, orhistory books Like um, we
haven't done that.
Um, one of my favorite ones waswas judges, and we did judges
(31:39):
for really no, no great reasonother than we're like dude,
there's some crazy stories andjudges and two.
You could probably compare itto our world today, but we're
just going to go verse by versethrough the book of Judges and
line it up with modern context.
So, yeah, it's definitely moreof hey, we just want to do
(32:00):
sections of scripture books ofthe Bible.
Where is God leading our team?
What's he drawing us to?
And then, once we kind of getclose, it's like, oh, actually,
yeah, we could pull on thisthread, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, so you kind of hit on this a little bit.
The argument for topicalteaching, I think, in student
ministry revolves really aroundtwo things.
One is these are very specificpeople living in a very specific
time in their life and we wantto make sure that we're saying
things that resonate with them.
(32:34):
But I think the the other sideof that coin, of the same coin,
is um, there are a lot of peoplein a lot of contexts that don't
see kids consistently and theywant to make sure that, like if
a student comes one week with afriend and then they don't see
that student again for fourweeks or six weeks, that it like
(32:55):
make sense for them to like beable to like kind of plug it,
plug in and whatever and thatthey're speaking yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, um, whereas, like,if we're on chapter four of
Ephesians, miranda and I walk inlike there's a whole bunch of
context that I've missed, do youguys?
(33:15):
I don't know how you woulddescribe your context, honestly.
So maybe we need to have thatconversation, but are you guys
thinking about that at all?
Or is that just like?
Hey, we know that that's thedownside of doing this and we're
leaning into it.
We're rocking and rolling.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yeah, yeah, both of those, but like I, I think I
would lean to I'm if we had anyconversation about youth
ministry at all.
I would be long game over shortgame in like every context.
That's probably not true, but ina lot of just stick with it,
just yeah, that was definitiveanyway, um, but like I'm just
(33:52):
for the, the, the long game, andI I could, I could make the
argument right now the topicalin the short term could be the
best in like a vacuum for smallwindow of time.
Like I could make that case.
I think it's more about thespiritual development over the
long haul, and so therefore, yes, I do think there is a little
(34:14):
bit of a hey, somebody couldjump in in the middle and not
fully get the context or thedepth of what we're looking to
Now.
I would say, at the same time,I think there's a generation
increasingly craving real,authentic.
Just tell me what God says,just give me the real thing.
(34:35):
And so, actually, while astudent might be coming in and
they might not, I don't know,yeah, they might be we might be
in Ephesians 3 and they missed 1and 2.
And so they might be behind theeight ball a little bit.
I think students areincreasingly just drawn to they
dug in yeah, this guy isn'ttelling me something I want to
(34:58):
hear exactly, and it's not evenlike yeah it's not even like
trying to be all trendy and it'snot even trying to be like all
teenager-y I just made that,that word up, I think but like
it's not.
It's not necessarily justtrying to chase a trend or a fad
.
Like this felt like the realthing and so I would.
I would just desire to elevatethat over.
(35:21):
Yeah, we might get somebody.
25% of the time, of course, wewould do the normal things, and
that's where we bring the themesin.
One of our, one of our bigthings is we want to actually
say the same thing for 16straight weeks.
We're going to put differentlenses on it, but like we want
to drive home a big idea for 16weeks.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So what can you give?
Can you like speak about whatthat actually is right now?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah, so well, I mentioned judges.
Let me give you that one.
So, in the letters from a cell,our team is kind of just into
that and so we're still kind ofdrawing out some of those themes
.
I think if our team was on thiscall, I think they could tell
you what it already is.
But judges easy example.
I just know this one like theback of my hand.
(36:08):
There's a phrase in judges thatpops up I don't know four or
five, maybe six times.
Uh, that basically talks aboutin those days, israel had no
King, and so everybody did asthey saw fit.
That's like the phrase.
And it's like when you removethe King off his throne, then
everybody does whatever the heckthey want to do.
(36:30):
And where does that end?
Judges ends in pain, suffering,destruction.
Every single time the throne,it all, falls apart.
(36:50):
That, like Jesus, is thelinchpin of our lives.
And when you take him off thethrone of your life, it goes
through this cycle and judges of, of, of falling, and then
repentance, and then Jesusrestores, and then we get
comfortable and we fall, andthen we repent, and so that was
like a thread that we pulled onevery single week.
So even if you were there only,let's say, four of the 16, you
(37:10):
were still four times, you gotthe heartbeat of the book of
Judges.
And so I know, in Letters of aCell right now, they're doing
that with suffering and they'retalking about how we suffer well
, for the sake of the gospel,and they're pulling on major
threads that we drive home for along period of time, which,
like what speaks better to lifein our world today.
They're pulling on majorthreads that we drive home for
for a long period of time which,like what?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
what speaks better to life in our world today?
You know what I mean.
Like it almost circles backaround to like accomplishing
some of the same wins thattopical accomplishes, but yeah
but it's not.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
And again, this is where I would just say but it
doesn't to a teenager, itdoesn't feel like a youth pastor
came up with something thatapplies to their world.
It is God's word that is thesame yesterday, today and
forever.
That is driving the truth thatI am consuming and being
transformed by.
So I think that's an importantdistinction that's an important
(38:12):
distinction.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, it's funny because, like, I have a group of
freshman guys that I lead, thatpeople who listen to this
podcast faithful, you're tiredof hearing about.
But um, they are like I Imight've said this before on the
on the podcast but um, they, ifI can get them to like do their
most authentic laugh, they'velost.
(38:33):
You know, like they don't wantto betray any kind of like
emotion Like they, they like meand I think they like being
around me, but they're stillvery much like I want to make
sure that you know that you'renot clever Right, which is good,
you know, it's good for me.
They're very dry and it's veryfunny, but it's like that same
(38:56):
principle almost kind of appliesto what you're saying, where
it's like I don't want to beinfluenced.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
You know, I just want whatever is true.
You know, I just want whateveris true, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
And I just think how, if, if we could instill that
when they're 12, 15, 17, like,how does that change their
spiritual growth going forward,like into adulthood?
Yeah, how does it change theway they engage with the church
in in college?
How does it?
And change the way they engagewith god's word as they grow and
(39:29):
as they develop?
And so I think again, that'spart of the long game of we're
training them to seek God'struth in the right ways, in the
right times, from the rightsources.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
So that's kind of subtle underlying underlying,
yeah, um, so this is when you,when you think about like scope,
you kind of talked about likeall right, we're gonna do this
because we haven't done this ina while, we're gonna do this
because we haven't done this ina while.
Is there any kind of at christchurch, like if a kid goes from
(40:06):
sixth grade through 12th grade,like they're going to get
everything, or is it a littlebit more like yeah, I don't know
how to ask it in a way that'snot incriminating.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I think that is a for Christ Church.
That is a work in progress.
That is a thing that we dreamof long-term.
Our kids ministry has that.
They, they do um, they're thecurriculum they use is the Bible
all the way through in threeyears.
So they literally rinse andrepeat every three years and
they just keep going um, everyevery three years through the
(40:43):
through the thing and students,we have just kind of overlaid a
(41:04):
couple big things that we wantto be true, like gospel, every
three years.
What are we doing next semester?
They have like the previousfive semesters or whatever it
might be on the board behind itso that they can see hey, we've
kind of been missing this, this,this kind of thing.
That's how we ended up doing a.
We did a series called summerin the Psalms because we just
had missed that like thread ofof scripture, and so we, we
(41:28):
dream of having a larger hey,let's do old, new, old new
gospel, whatever it might be.
But I don't think we we haven'tgotten there yet and we've kind
of just kind of been relying onhey, let's look at what the
gaps we've missed and let's givestudents the scope of scripture
so that they can see the threadof God's redemptive plan for
(41:49):
creation over the whole thing,Through all of it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, yeah.
But also, like I mean, if youget a kid that comes up in sixth
grade that's been in elementaryfor a while, they like already
have the foundation.
Yep, I mean if they, if they dokindergarten through fifth
grade, they're going all the waythrough twice.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
My, so my, my daughter, we, uh, my daughter is
in first grade, one of mydaughters in first grade.
He was at a COI move with methis this summer and happened to
be there the day that they gotkingdom worker cards and she
asked if she could get one and Iwas like uh, dude, that means I
gotta do whatever you know,it's like when your kid asked if
they can get a dog and saywe've done this Anyway.
So she got a cool one.
She got one that was like goinga prayer walk with 10 different
(42:30):
people or whatever, and we hadbeen talking about prayer
walking because of Spain anddoing all that as a part of and
get that engaged trip and andall that, and so it was awesome.
Well, uh, she asked if we couldgo on a prayer walk the other.
The other night we are praying.
As we're walking, a mom with aholding a baby walks by us and
she is praying out loud, like aloud enough that I'm
(42:51):
uncomfortable, you know, like,like.
This is great.
I admire your confidence.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
But yes, like how?
How do I?
Speaker 3 (42:59):
tell her don't pray so loud, anyway, you don't he's
praying for you, right, I didn'the's praying for this lady.
we're walking by and she says Ijust pray that this baby
wouldn't be like mephibosheth.
And I was like like who?
And she said Mephibosheth.
And I was like are you sayingMephibosheth thought about
(43:29):
Mephibosheth in 15 years?
So like I don't know.
But she was praying that hewouldn't be crippled, that this
man was just like where did you?
And she was like we weretalking about it at church and
about how, about how Davidwanted to honor Jonathan and I
was like cool team.
Cause you just remembered moreof the story than I did, so
that's incredible.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
So I do want to kind of go back to the context thing
because, um, I'm fromJacksonville.
Jacksonville is a city with anidentity crisis in a lot of ways
.
It's like are we Southern?
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, are we Florida.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Georgia.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Are we crackheads?
I don't know, um, but it's like, yeah, I mean when I was
growing up there, whichobviously it's been years and
years and years, but like weused to call it Southeast
Georgia, which is like well,that's how you kind of referred
to it as like this is super.
I don't know if you feel likeyou're doing ministry in like a
(44:22):
Bible belty culture.
I like how does that feel toyou?
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Yeah, I would say.
Well, I mean, I grew up in theMidwest, so like, Evansville,
Indiana.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
I know let's go now.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
So, like we were, we were churched to the core.
You know, and I do think there'sit's not to that extent here,
but I definitely think in ourcontext we do have a lot of
people that are a part of ourchurch, with deep church
backgrounds, like that is anormally true thing.
(44:55):
Um, I think the thing that wecontinue to stumble on is that
they are theologicallyilliterate in a lot of sense
that they are um, not uh, they.
They have been going to churchand they've been around God's
word, but maybe they have neverdug into it for themselves.
That they are just kind of, andso like that would play into my
(45:16):
case for this exegetical kindof style of hey, the, the, the
gospel will transform your life,Um, but it's as you dig into
the words of God.
It's not just attending churchin and of itself that is going
to transform, um, you into theimage of Christ.
Uh, it's actually going to bedigging in and other things as
(45:38):
well, but, um, by way of hisword and and knowing what he has
called us to, that's going tobe the engine behind that.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Yeah, so do you feel like um a major, like, help me
break down your student ministryfor me.
What percent do you feel like,hey, they are faithful members
of this church.
They've been around for a longtime.
What percentage are you seeingon any given Sunday afternoon or
evening that are like theone-offs came with a friend you
(46:05):
know like help me understandwhat the room looks like.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yeah, I would say I would say 60, 70, 75% are
somewhat churched.
The the thing that we have seenactually in our, in our push of
of getting students back intoGod's word and letting that
transform and then like joiningJesus on mission um, has been a
(46:28):
push that they are more thedrivers of students who are
outside of that realm.
That they are actually notbringing more I almost said the
language they're bringing theirfriends.
I wouldn't say that's the case.
I would actually say they'rediscipling their friends, that
they are now equipped to takeGod's word to their people
(46:50):
rather than bringing theirpeople to hear God's word.
And so, like we're actuallythere's increasingly more
students that are not as church,that are from different
backgrounds, that are showing upbecause somebody has already
led them to Jesus, not becausesomeone brought them to be led
to Jesus.
So it's pretty cool that that'sbeen a fun thing, but like as a
(47:12):
whole I would say we're talking75% of them are from some kind
of a church background or wehave a private school.
So we have 300 middle schooland high school students on our
campus every day.
So like we also have a goodnumber of Christian private
school kids that are gettingchapels.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
The worst kids in the world.
Sometimes, yeah, I'm justkidding no, the worst kids in
the world are the homeschoolers.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
They're the worst, oh trash.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Man you are just firing today.
That was just a shot directlyacross the bow toward Michael.
That wasn't for anybody else,that was just me making fun of
Michael.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Where did you, did you grow up?
In public school, privateschool?
What'd you do me?
Yeah, yeah, I.
Well, I was homeschooledthrough third grade and then I
was so glad you said that.
Well, I could tell by the wayhe reacted that I was like there
was some homeschooling Icouldn't read, so my mom was
like I don't want him to be heldback for six years, so we need
to teach him how to read.
And then yeah, Also another.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Well, just a fun kind of juxtaposition on the podcast
here.
Jeremy Michael has 11 siblingsthat were all homeschooled.
Yeah, so Jeremy is an onlychild.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
That's yeah, I'm an only child.
Yeah, so you basically had yourown university and we can read.
Yeah, oh man, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
That's funny.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
I learned how to memorize cause I couldn't read,
so that was my, that was mydefault.
There you go, that works,that's great.
Um learned how to memorizebecause I couldn't read.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
So that was my, that was my default.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
There you go, that works, that's great yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Um, that was incredible, michael, props to
you, uh, okay.
So, uh, I do, I do kind of wantto.
I mean, I want to be respectfulof your time.
We don't need to sit here andtalk forever.
But I want to dig into to onemore kind of little thing here.
Um, that's based on somethingthat you said that I'm now going
to have to try really hard toremember.
(49:15):
Um, oh, so, exegetical teaching.
Um, it sounds like within that,I want you to clarify something
for me.
You talk a lot about how you'reteaching people how to read the
Bible.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Does that happen?
Is that a byproduct of justteaching the way that you are
teaching, or are you actuallyincorporating like, hey, this is
how we got here into the wholething as well?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Yeah, we're definitely.
I do think it could be a subtlebyproduct, even if you weren't
doing that intentionally, like Ithink it could be.
But we are definitelyincorporating that into, like we
little things One on socialmedia and all other platforms.
We're encouraging students thatthey would read the text before
they come themselves to um.
We are pushing like old school,like it's 1994, that they bring
their Bibles and those thatdon't.
We have Bibles at the door, sowe don't.
(50:19):
We don't have to say, put it upon the screen.
We say open up your Bible towhatever that we are.
That their eyes would go to thetext and not necessarily to a
screen or to a voice on a stage.
When they get back to theirsmall group rooms, they do small
groups with Bibles open andagain the Bible continues to be
(50:40):
the teacher that it continues tobe the thing that is leading
them back towards the truth.
Sometimes our team does weeklydevos that could be a section to
zero in on a little bit more.
So I don't know if thatdirectly answers your question,
but we are definitely trying topurposefully teach them how to
(51:00):
engage with God's word, not justfrom hearing from a stage, but
how it can be actively a part ofall the time.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah, that does partially answer my question.
I want to ask a different way,though.
To what extent are you likeshowing your work?
You know like are, are.
Do your kids?
Are they learning aboutcommentaries and word studies?
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Like are those things that?
Speaker 1 (51:30):
are incorporated, or does that all kind of happen
beneath the surface, on theiceberg, so to speak?
Speaker 3 (51:36):
Yeah, no, that's a great question and I think it
happens more organically.
I would love to say I'm a guythat likes to have a play
written and we run the play andI love to think through all the
X's and O's, right, I don'tthink this is one that we
necessarily think through, but Ithink happens naturally out of
(51:56):
the depth of our own digginginto and then that overflows in
the way that we teach.
So, like a easy example wouldbe, our team loves to randomly
show a Bible project video in inthe middle of a here, a here's
how Paul wrote Ephesians.
So here's this one minute clipthat like informs you on how we
(52:18):
got to this big idea.
Or frequently, like one of ouryouth pastors he's a little bit
more of a nerd than me Like heloves to do the hey, this Greek
word, and I looked that up inthis commentary and this means
that thing.
And so, like teaching them howto look under the look under the
hood, maybe a little bit ofscripture as well.
(52:38):
So I do think that stuffhappens more organically when
you're doing exegetical Um, butI would love to say that we have
a plan to reveal that stuff andmaybe, under the hood to use
your language more than we do.
But I do think it happensconsistently, organically, just
by the model of, of exegeticalteaching.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Yeah.
So I'm trying to listen to thisconversation.
I'm trying to listen to youcritically, Like I'm trying to
find the holes a little bit.
So forgive me for peeling backlike a layer that this is a
half-baked thing, but I dowonder if somebody could listen
(53:21):
to this and think, man, if Iimplemented this, like at my
church, I feel like studentministry could start to feel
very, um, like I could, I couldlose a sense of relationship,
Like it's very school-y.
You know like we're very heavyon like education, theological
(53:45):
literacy, and I just want togive you a chance to speak to
that um because I know frombeing around your group that
like they are very deeplyconnected and in community.
So just kind of speak to that alittle bit.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
Well, yeah, I would, I would, yeah.
First of all, I could make allthe normal arguments here of
that that that it actuallybreeds more conversation, it
breeds more community, it breedsmore togetherness.
I could do all that, but I wouldalso, I think, one key point to
me in all this if I was talkingto a youth pastor, I would say
this doesn't kill yourcreativity, it doesn't kill your
(54:17):
, it actually grows it.
It doesn't hinder your abilityto be engaging or even bring
topical elements into it.
Like, like, you can continue totheme up whatever passage
you're digging into.
Like you can, you can build awhole experience kind of around
the thing that can be engaging,uh, for students that they want
(54:40):
to be a part of that.
That might, uh, get theirbrains to say, oh, this is cool.
Uh, I want to hear what we haveto say about whatever it might
be.
Um, it doesn't mean that youjust have to say like, okay, so
we're doing a study on Exodusthe end like, yeah, like, open
your Bibles, let's go, likethere's still room for yeah,
(55:01):
there, there can be a thematicway that you bring that home,
that that draws them into.
Oh man, I've never like lookedat it through that light.
We did.
We did Joseph one time.
Oh man, I've never like lookedat it through that light.
We did, we did Joseph one time.
And instead of saying we'restudying the end of Genesis, we
we said but God, you know likethis thing is going to happen in
your life, but God will use it,turn it into bring flowers out
(55:24):
of out of graves, kind of kindof language and so like the
whole series is titled but God,and that became like the
language.
It wasn't like.
We never even actually saidwe're doing Genesis, chapters 30
.
What is it?
36 through 50 or whatever.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (55:39):
Yeah, so like we never like use that language, it
was just like we made itthematic, we and so like I think
that's what I would say Like itdoesn't have to be black.
This like dry, like eatingcrackers every day, yeah, you
know yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
So, yeah, yeah, no, that totally makes sense.
So, um, well, I I think thatwe've given people a lot to chew
on here and uh reallyappreciate you taking the time
to hang out with me and uh andtalk through some of this stuff.
I love how deeply you'vethought about all of this and
obviously this is coming from aplace of.
(56:18):
Well, I'll just tell people,like, I asked you to do this
yesterday, like, there was nopreparation.
This is all just like flowingfrom a place of passion and care
, and that's a really of passionand care, yeah, and that's
that's a really neat thing tosee.
So, yeah, yeah, thanks forbeing with me, man.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yeah, I love it.
This is an awesome conversation, so if you ever want to do this
for like 10 hours, I'm in forthat too.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
So sign me up.
Let's get on a plane and goback to Spain.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
All right.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
See ya, bye.
Okay, caleb, we have a new waythat we're closing out episodes.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
We don't have a name for this segment yet.
Oh my gosh, we're letting thelisteners decide, really, yes,
but we do have this board, whoalook at that board.
And I want you to hype up ayouth pastor, and I know that
you've brought a picture to addto the board.
Oh, that's.
Ad the lane hyped up, Addy,which is super cool, yeah.
So here's your pin.
(57:14):
And why don't you tell uswhat's going on over here?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Okay, I have somebody to hype up.
Okay, for the second time.
Number two yeah, I'm going tohype up Walter Schoen from Tulsa
, oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I love Walter.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Some about Walter Tulsa, oklahoma.
I love Walter.
Some about Walter.
There's a couple of things, buthe's going to go right here,
I'm not going to stick a pin inhis head.
A couple of things.
So I think Walter's a reallygreat youth pastor from the
Tulsa area Actually just movedchurches this summer, but just
the way that he, that he loveshis family, well, um, a little
(57:56):
bit about Walter and what hisfamily is going through there.
Their son has been battlingcancer for a number of years, um
, and has spent a good amount oftime in Memphis at St Jude, um,
and, to be completely honest,the way that Walter is a dad to
(58:19):
his son and a husband to hiswife is something I look up to a
whole lot.
The joy that he still has inthe midst of really tough
moments and just the way that hecares deeply for the Lord is
really great.
Also, he's an Oklahoma Soonerfan.
So Boomer Sooner, walter, yougot that on the board.
It's absolute.
(58:39):
Put those guns away, absolutelynot them.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
Walter was in my wilderness group.
Speaker 2 (58:47):
I love Walter a whole lot and he is just a real
treasure.
A treasure.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
So anytime I can shout out, Walter.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
I absolutely will shout him out.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
All right, thanks, caleb.
Quick reminder if you have agood story about CIY or about
youth ministry that you thinkwould be encouraging to our
listeners, you can type it out.
You can send it to podcast atciycom.
I'll read it on air as written.
So huge thank you to Jeremy andto Caleb for joining me today.
Today's episode was produced byMichael Hester, lauren Bryan
(59:19):
and myself.
Two weeks from now, we aregoing to begin a new
conversation about whether weshould be integrating students
into our kind of adult servicesand into normal church life or
be emphasizing creatingstudent-only spaces.
So we're going to be talking toTito Lozano about creating
(59:41):
intentional student-only spaces.
If you don't want to miss that,be sure to subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts.
We'll see you next time.
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