November 5, 2025 • 53 mins
When Jesus felt compassion, it wasn’t pity. It was power.
In this episode, I sit down with my friend Daniel Borge, a Spirit-filled Norwegian with the kind of honesty and humor that hits you right in the heart. Together, we unpack the Greek word splagchnizomai, that gut-level compassion Jesus felt that always moved Him to action.
We talk about the difference between enabling and empowering, flesh-based kindness versus Holy Spirit love, and how seeing ourselves as “Christian” can get twisted by self-judgment instead of God’s voice. Daniel shares about learning to show compassion in truth, and I open up about the times I’ve gotten it wrong, when my “kindness” came from a need for validation instead of obedience.
If you’ve ever wondered what Jesus really meant when He felt compassion, this conversation will bring clarity and conviction in the best way. 🕊️
Thanks for tuning in to Bible Bish!
Come for the tea, stay for the truth -you just might leave changed. 🕊️
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel (00:00):
the difference between Jesus and us, we can have
(00:02):
compassion, but we just,there's no action . So we just.
Move on.
Kayley (00:06):
If you operate outside of God's depiction
and definition of compassion,you will find yourself
showing compassion, thatis laced with pity and that
gleans no transformation.
Wow.
Hello.
Thank you forjoining Bible Bish.
I am so glad to beback in the studio.
It's been a few months.
(00:27):
I was in Japan over the summer,but I'm back and I've got a
great friend that I have made.
His name is Daniel Borge,he's actually Norwegian, and
that's how you pronounce it.
If you're Norwegian.
Daniel Borge.
Yes.
But if you're American like me,you can just say Daniel Borge.
Daniel (00:48):
Sounds good.
Kayley (00:48):
He, he will respond to that one too.
Uh, he's a great friend of mine.
We've played music and we'vegone on tour all over Norway
together, and he's actuallyhere in Nashville right now.
And I wanted to capitalizeon this moment and get you
in the studio and we'regonna talk about compassion.
Daniel is super Spirit filled.
We have the most beautifulrevelatory conversations
(01:10):
when we're on the road, andI wanted to bring that here
for you guys to listen to.
So we're gonna talk aboutcompassion, and before we
get started, I actually wannagive you a definition of
compassion, but specificallythe Greek version.
The Greek word is, I'm not gonnapronounce this very well at all.
(01:31):
It's fine.
It's splagchnizomai
Daniel (01:37):
Yeah, probably that's, yeah.
You didn't pronounceit any good at all?
Kayley (01:41):
No, I didn't.
That was quite horrendous.
I'm actually reallygood at pronunciation.
Splagchnizomai Mm-hmm.
Um, it's a word used inthe gospels to describe
Jesus's compassion.
It's not just a surfacefeeling, it's a deep,
visceral response, like yourguts twisting inside you.
That's kind of nuts.
(02:01):
This is the kind of compassionJesus showed, and it
always moved him to action.
Whether he was healing thesick, feeding the hungry,
or teaching the lost.
It wasn't just a feeling offeeling sorry for someone,
it was seeing theirneed and being so deeply
moved that he had to stepin and meet that need.
That's kind of a,that's wild to me.
Daniel (02:20):
Yeah.
Yes,
Kayley (02:20):
and I think, anyway, so let's just,
let's just dive right in.
Daniel, I want you to give meyour definition of compassion
as you have lived it out inyour life up to this point.
Daniel (02:35):
Uh, yeah.
Uh, for me, I think, uh,as a person, uh, compassion
just comes naturally to me.
Kayley (02:44):
Oh,
Daniel (02:44):
yeah.
I feel like sometimesit's maybe too much.
Okay.
Um, I have to think about whatthe word means, but, uh,
I feel like it's empathya word you have in, uh.
Kayley (02:55):
Yeah.
Empathy.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
Daniel (02:56):
yeah.
It's kind of the same thing.
Kayley (02:58):
Okay.
Daniel (02:58):
Yeah.
So sometimes it's um, when youhave too much empathy mm-hmm.
It might, uh, it might beharder to make decisions.
Kayley (03:06):
Okay.
Daniel (03:07):
Business wise.
Kayley (03:08):
Business wise, yeah.
Interesting.
Daniel (03:10):
For example you have a business and you have a guy
working for you, and he's justdoing all the wrong things.
Okay.
And you ask him again and againand did, he just can't do what
you ask him to do, and then.
Suddenly you maybe have to firehim or something like that.
Yeah, but I can't do that.
I have too much.
Kayley (03:27):
You can't fire someone
Daniel (03:28):
No, I have too much compassion.
Kayley (03:29):
Wait, so what do you do?
Can, do you havean example of this?
Daniel (03:32):
Uh, yeah, I have, but I,
Kayley (03:35):
tell me, give me a story.
I wanna hear about this.
Daniel (03:36):
Yeah.
So I have this guy workingfor me and, um, uh, I'm,
I'm his boss boss, or I washis boss and I told him what
to do and he didn't do it.
And, uh, the thing thathappened was that he just
refused doing things.
Like, uh, I'm alsoworking as a roofer.
Kayley (03:54):
Okay.
Daniel (03:54):
So if, if it was cold outside or if it was
raining, he was like, no, Idon't wanna do that today.
And I was like, you have to.
It's your job.
And he was like,no, no, not today.
Yeah, I know.
And then I was like, angry.
And of course youhave to do that.
But then I was startedthinking about his family,
his wife, his kids.
What will happen tohim if I fire him?
(04:15):
But that's too much.
Kayley (04:17):
That's too much.
Daniel (04:18):
It's too much.
So you have to learnhow to have a balance.
Kayley (04:21):
Well, what happened?
Did you end up letting him go?
Daniel (04:23):
He, uh, yeah, I had to.
Kayley (04:26):
And how did that conversation go?
Daniel (04:28):
The, the problem was, yeah, the problem is that
when you push it too far, yeah.
Then I get angry and then Ido it, you know, in a angry
situation and that's not howyou're supposed to do it.
So, uh, that's what thatWe're best friends now.
Kayley (04:41):
You're best friends now?
Daniel (04:42):
Yeah.
Oh, but he's notworking for me anymore.
Kayley (04:44):
He's not working for you?
Daniel (04:46):
No.
Kayley (04:47):
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I think what youjust described is your
version of compassion.
Daniel (04:52):
Yeah.
Right.
Probably
Kayley (04:53):
versus like Holy Spirit's version of compassion.
Daniel (04:56):
That's something totally different.
Yeah.
Kayley (04:57):
So I want you to give me what, what is your idea
of the difference betweenHoly Spirit's, compassion
and like IE Jesus or HolySpirit's compassion and
your version of compassion?
Daniel (05:07):
I feel like, um.
The compassion that theHoly Spirit gives of Jesus
gives, without sayinganything wrong right now,
but it's not always fair.
Like, it's not always just
Kayley (05:21):
what, what do you mean?
It's like, what do youmean it's not fair or just,
Daniel (05:24):
uh, because, um, we are not, we, we doesn't deserve
everything God gives us.
Kayley (05:30):
Oh, I understand.
He doesn't, yeah.
Daniel (05:31):
We doesn't deserve, uh, forgiveness and all that.
Right.
But he gives that anyways.
Mm-hmm.
Because of his compassion to us.
Kayley (05:38):
Of course.
Daniel (05:38):
So if it would be like, this is how he's supposed to be.
Mm. We would never,ever got to get saved.
Stuff like that.
Kayley (05:48):
Of course, of course.
Daniel (05:48):
But it because of what Jesus did on the cross.
Yeah.
And that's compassion.
Mm-hmm.
For us.
So it's not always this is haveto, this is how it should be.
Yeah.
But because of his compassionand his love for us, we
get to do that anyways.
Kayley (06:02):
Yeah.
That's so good.
I was kind of doing a little bitof research on compassion and
what really is the differencebetween my human compassion and
the compassion that Jesus shows.
But there's a, there's apassage of scripture and it's.
It's Matthew 9 (06:16):
36.
And just to give some context,I'll read 35 says, Jesus
walked throughout the regionwith the joyful message
of God's kingdom realm.
He taught in their meetinghouses and wherever he
went, he demonstrated God'spower by healing every kind
of disease and illness.
When he saw the vast crowdsof people, Jesus's heart was
(06:39):
deeply moved with compassionbecause they seemed weary
and helpless, like wanderingsheep without a shepherd.
He turned to his disciplesand he said, the harvest
is huge and ripe.
But there are not enoughharvesters to bring it all in.
As you go, plead with theowner of the harvest, IE
God, to thrust out many morereapers to harvest this grain.
(06:59):
And so we see here, like hisheart was moved because the
crowd, they were wonderingsheep without a shepherd.
I mean, can you imaginesheep without a shepherd?
That's some serious compassion.
And it moved him to action.
And it wasn't based on, um,what Jesus wanted for himself.
Because when I think aboutthe times that I've been
compassionate, sometimes it'sbased on my own emotions.
(07:21):
Mm-hmm.
And like, okay, I feel, I feelsad and I want someone I don't
know to do something for me.
So I'll feel bad for themso that they see I feel bad
and maybe they'll like me.
Does that make sense?
Daniel (07:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, uh, menlike human being.
That's,
Kayley (07:39):
that's human.
Daniel (07:40):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kayley (07:40):
But like I, Jesus, there's not a point in scripture
where Jesus did something sothat people would like him.
Daniel (07:48):
No, it's not
Kayley (07:50):
more so I want you to follow me, and if you follow
me, you'll have eternal life.
Yeah.
It's not about following me tofollow me, it's about following
me, so that you can have freedomand you can come back to life.
You can be alive.
Mm-hmm.
And so anyway, I just, Ithink that's a beautiful idea
of, okay, maybe my versionof compassion is rooted in
(08:11):
my emotions, but I wannahear from you 'cause you say
that you're naturally reallygood at being compassionate.
I wanna hear from you wherecompassion is challenging.
Daniel (08:22):
Oh yeah.
Yes.
Um, to be honest, likethere's, um, when.
Yes.
Like I just told you, likemy, when my compassion comes
between what's right and wrong.
Kayley (08:37):
Oh, okay.
Daniel (08:37):
Yeah.
That's the, I, I, I find ithard to like let people down.
Oh, okay.
And that's also a bigopposite from Jesus.
Yeah.
Because he didn't care if helet them down because he just
told them this is righteous.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like, um.
I've been thinking a lotabout the Prodigal son.
Yeah.
Uh, I think it's in Luke 15.
(08:58):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kayley (08:59):
Maybe.
I don't know.
I need to reference it.
Yeah.
Daniel (09:01):
It's in there somewhere.
the thing right there is, therewas this man that had two sons.
Mm-hmm.
One of them left and didall the things wrong.
Kayley (09:11):
Yes.
Daniel (09:12):
Everything was so bad he moved to another country.
And, uh, it, it wasa sinful country, and
that's where he lived andthat's where he stayed.
Uh, and so many times wehear the story about him.
Mm-hmm.
How, uh, many thingshe did bad and yeah.
Yeah.
He, he was awful.
Yeah.
And then he found himself
Kayley (09:30):
Yeah.
Daniel (09:31):
And then he came back.
Yeah.
not so often.
Do people talk about, or thinkabout the son that was left
behind or stayed with his daddy?
Kayley (09:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel (09:40):
The thing that I've been thinking about is that
we can all see people that aredoing sin sinful things mm-hmm.
That you can see with your eyes.
Kayley (09:49):
Yes.
Daniel (09:50):
But the son that was, uh, with his dad, he
have a lot of sinful thoughtsthat nobody could see.
Kayley (09:55):
Yeah.
Oof.
Daniel (09:56):
Yeah.
I know.
So the thing is, yeah,I think there's a lot of
people that, that feel likeI'm doing everything right.
Yeah.
Like every, I, I've beenfollowing the rules.
Kayley (10:04):
Yeah.
Daniel (10:06):
But many times I think it's harder for them to
understand that they need Jesus.
Mm. Because they'reperfect in any way.
Kayley (10:12):
Well, 'cause they're earning it through
their human strength.
Daniel (10:15):
Exactly.
And also I think it's harderfor them to find compassion
because they haven't been there.
Kayley (10:21):
Mm. They haven't needed compassion shown to them.
Daniel (10:26):
Exactly.
Kayley (10:27):
So it's harder for them to show compassion to others.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Daniel (10:32):
Yeah.
Also in a lot ofchurches around.
I think a lot of times that'sa thing that is bigger than
many think about becausethere are people that are
doing everything perfect.
Yeah.
And you can't seethe sin on them.
Mm. But then you have peoplelike me that doing wrong
(10:53):
things all the time and,uh, but for me, I don't
have a problem to say that.
I am, I'm, I'msinning every day.
I'm, I'm doing so muchwrong and I need Jesus.
Kayley (11:03):
Yeah.
Daniel (11:03):
Because if not, if I don't have Jesus, I'm nothing.
Mm-hmm.
When there are people thatalmost like they, I'm, I'm
actually, I'm good enough.
Mm-hmm.
But it is good tohave Jesus too.
But you know what I mean?
Kayley (11:15):
You know, I, I feel like I relate to the son
that was left behind, thatdidn't go and wander astray.
'cause I have a prettyclean track record.
Uh, which is why when mywhole life fell apart, I
didn't understand who I was.
I had a complete identitycrisis, and as a result, a flood
of compassion has entered andI feel compassion for people.
(11:37):
Uh, but I still relate tothe son that stayed behind
because I have done so muchof trying to earn things
through my own strength andin that you almost carry a
spirit of judgment of you arekind of judging yourself based
on your abilities and yourachievements, and that naturally
bleeds over to judging othersfor how they're not achieving
(11:59):
or they're lazy or whatever.
And I still think I strugglewith that a little bit.
Um, even though I have so muchmore empathy and compassion for
people, I still struggle withthis, I think spirit of judgment
specifically for myself.
But if I'm judging myself,which is, it's not my role.
(12:21):
I need to completely givethat over to the Lord.
It's all ego and pride.
'cause I am not God, nordo I wanna be God and nor
do I wanna be a judge.
Uh, but it's like that innerdialogue of like self hatred
or frustration with myselffor not performing well.
And God's been doing acompletely new thing in my
life lately where he's like,I'm gonna root this out of you
(12:42):
and show you that th through.
I've been, I've been.
Exhausted.
And if I'm exhausted, I can'tperform and I can't produce,
and if I can't produce, thenit's like, well, am I worthy?
Am I like valuable?
Mm-hmm.
Am I valuable at all?
And if so, like I've equatedmy value to being productive.
And that's not what God issaying or wanting for me.
(13:05):
And so I've had to like letthat go and I think he's rooting
out that spirit of judgment inme through that process of why
don't, in your exhaustion, whydon't you just remain in me
and start, start being a humanbeing instead of a human doing?
Yeah.
And get your value from whatI say instead of what you do.
Mm-hmm.
And that's been a, a hardthing for me to understand and
(13:26):
really walk out because you canhear it, but that doesn't mean
you're walking it out well.
True.
Um, so I'm glad you broughtup the prodigal son.
'cause I kind of relate to him.
I have compassion for him.
Daniel (13:38):
Exactly.
But that's it.
Like people that youcan relate to Yeah.
May be sometimes easierto have compassion to.
Yeah.
And that's why I put Jesusso high, because Jesus
never done anything wrong.
He was perfect in any way.
Yeah.
And still he cried.
Kayley (13:52):
Yeah.
Daniel (13:53):
Among people.
Like when Lazarus was dead.
Yeah.
He cried.
Mm.
Even if he knew that hewas gonna rise again.
Yeah.
He, he felt for them.
Yeah.
He felt their sorrow.
Mm-hmm.
So, uh, yeah.
I think, uh, compassion is, uh,is a thing that is very deep.
Yeah.
To understand how to useit in the right ways.
Kayley (14:14):
You just, but you just touched on something, use it.
Daniel (14:17):
Yeah.
Kayley (14:18):
Can, do you think it's possible to show compassion
without taking action?
Daniel (14:23):
Mm. That's a good question.
Kayley (14:25):
I mean, 'cause when Jesus had compassion,
it moved him to action.
Yeah.
He saw the need that thepeople needed a shepherd,
and then immediately waslike, we need more laborers
to go disciple these people.
I mean, I always go back tothat scripture where Jesus
gave us the great commission,which is to go and make
disciples of the nations.
He didn't say, gomake believers.
(14:45):
No, go convert people.
He said, go make disciples.
And a disciple issomeone who follows.
Yeah.
And if you're following Jesus,then your whole life changes.
And if you're following Jesus,that means you have a shepherd.
Yeah.
I think there are a lot ofsheep that believe in Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
But don't actuallybelong in a flock.
Daniel (15:04):
Yeah.
Kayley (15:06):
And maybe I think that's the difference in that
commission of go make disciples,
Daniel (15:10):
but maybe that's also the difference between
Jesus and us, that maybewe can have compassion, but
we just, there's no actionin what we're thinking.
So we just.
Move on.
Kayley (15:20):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So that's not, that's not Jesus.
That's not Jesus and it's notHoly Spirit, so that's flesh.
Daniel (15:26):
Oh yeah.
Kayley (15:26):
That's a human version of compassion.
Mm-hmm.
I think we naturally feel pity,but compassion is not pity.
No.
You can pity somebody andnot do anything about it.
Yeah.
Just feel bad for them.
Yeah.
I mean, how many people scrollon on Instagram or TikTok
and they see all these sadvideos and you're like, oh.
Or like you, the SarahMcLaughlin in the arms of an
(15:47):
angel and you see all the,the dogs that are dying and
you just scroll right past it.
You feel bad forlike five minutes.
Yeah, that's true.
You scroll past anddo nothing about it.
Daniel (15:56):
Ex. Exactly.
You just don't care.
What would Jesus, doyou care for a while?
Yeah.
Kayley (16:00):
Jesus would start a foundation and he would
go knock on door to doorcollecting money for it.
Daniel (16:06):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kayley (16:07):
And make sure that every dog never went hungry again.
Daniel (16:10):
Exactly.
That's what he would.
Kayley (16:12):
And if he can do that for a dog, how much more
would he be doing it for thepeople made in his image?
Yeah.
For his children, forhis flock, for his sheep.
Daniel (16:20):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's, that's,that's the difference.
And also we shouldbe more like Jesus.
Uh, so maybe weshould act more Yeah.
On what we're feelingwhen it comes to
compassion, that's good.
Well, what you were justsaying about trying your
best to do what Jesus wants.
Kayley (16:37):
Yeah.
Daniel (16:37):
That's of course a good thing.
Mm-hmm.
But also if you're focusingtoo much about acts.
Mm. that can be a trap for you.
Yeah.
That's what I felt.
Yeah.
And that's what I, why I, fora while I didn't feel like I
was worthy Mm. To actually becalled a Christian anymore.
Kayley (16:58):
Really?
Daniel (16:58):
Yeah.
Because of that,there, there are rules.
Mm-hmm.
And you follow them.
Mm-hmm.
Try to follow them.
Mm-hmm.
And then, uh.
The adversary, isthat what it called?
Kayley (17:07):
Yeah.
The adversary.
Daniel (17:08):
Yep.
Uh, he's always remindingyou of everything that
you've done wrong.
Yeah.
And he's saying, dothat, do that, do that.
And when you do it, he'slike, why did you do that?
Oof.
Yeah.
And also, if that's your focuson never do anything wrong.
Yeah.
And you use your hand tolike make your life worthy.
Yeah.
Then you can't let, you shouldrather let Jesus use his hand
(17:31):
to make you worthy, becauseas soon as you use your hand.
Kayley (17:34):
You.
You're gonna fail.
Daniel (17:35):
You're gonna fail.
Kayley (17:35):
It's not gonna look good.
Daniel (17:36):
And that's what the adversary wants you to do.
Kayley (17:38):
It's gonna be the difference between like
a five-year-old making adrawing and Picasso, or like,
yeah, like Leonardo da Vincimaking a painting.
That's how differenceit is between you trying
to make yourself worthyand Jesus making you.
Daniel (17:50):
Yeah, it, it won't even be a picture.
Kayley (17:52):
It won't even be, it's just like scribble,
Daniel (17:54):
it's like painting without a brush, you know?
Yeah.
Kayley (17:57):
Okay.
So when did that change for you?
When did you.
Uh, when did you go from, oh,I'm not even worthy to be a
Christian because of all myissues, to realizing that it was
the adversary spreading lies.
Daniel (18:10):
It, to be totally, uh, totally honest.
It was actually after I metyou and, uh, legacy the church.
Mm. And Christianpeople in the US.
I'm from Norway and where,uh, where I'm from, I'm
not saying that the peoplethere are judgemental.
Mm-hmm.
But I think I was Mm.
And I actually judgedother people too.
(18:32):
Mm. and myself and I feltlike you can't do that.
Uh, are you really a Christian?
You can't do that, orthis or that, or whatever.
And when I came to the US therewas, I, I, I didn't feel the
same judgmental people that Imet back in Norway, but later
(18:53):
I understood that it, it mightnot be the people that I,
that, that are in my country.
It was me.
Kayley (19:00):
Wow.
Daniel (19:00):
I was the one that judging.
But when I came here, Isaw that, uh, the people
are more open-minded.
Yeah.
So they, I felt likeI could actually say
that I'm a Christian.
I was allowed to saythat I'm a Christian.
Wow.
And when you're allowed tosay that you're a Christian,
that's what you wanna do.
Because if you always tellpeople that what you're doing
right now is wrong, theydon't care about anything,
(19:20):
they will just drop it all.
Kayley (19:22):
So is it more so like the way you were
living your life in Norway?
Yeah.
And then to say youwere a Christian that
felt hypocritical?
Daniel (19:31):
Exactly.
Okay.
But also because I wouldn'tsay that I could say
that I was a Christianthe way I lived my life.
Kayley (19:37):
Yeah,
Daniel (19:39):
but that was be because of what people told me early on.
So that's what I'm saying.
If I tell you thatyour Christian life
right now is not enough Mm.
Then why should you pray?
Why should you readthe Bible anymore?
Why should you doanything at all?
Kayley (19:55):
Where did that start for you?
Daniel (19:57):
I think it started with that I wasn't good enough.
Like, um,
Kayley (20:00):
like you weren't good enough.
Like who, who told you thatyou weren't good enough?
Who told you that youwere a bad Christian?
Daniel (20:06):
Actually nobody did, I think,
Kayley (20:08):
did the devil?
Daniel (20:09):
That's, yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
I, I'm not blaming thepeople in Norway or at all.
Uh, and also there's a lotof really nice churches over
there, and I think, I don'tthink it was the people there.
I think maybe it was myselfthat judged myself so bad
because I looked at theother people in the church
and they were so good.
(20:30):
Okay.
And I felt like Icouldn't reach them.
Mm.
and also, uh,there are a lot of.
I feel a lot of judgmentalthings going on in the church.
Mm-hmm.
I'm, I'm, I'm trying to weighwhat I'm saying right now.
Kayley (20:44):
Yeah.
You're trying to like, okay.
You don't wanna ruffleany feathers, I get it.
Daniel (20:47):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kayley (20:47):
Okay, so let me, let me take it back to
compassion real quick.
'cause I did ask youbefore, where is it hard
for you to show compassion?
And I'm wondering now ifthe hardest person to show
compassion for was yourself.
Daniel (21:01):
Yeah, probably.
That's might be oneof my biggest issues.
Yeah.
Kayley (21:07):
Okay.
Yeah.
So you're, it's easy toshow compassion for other
people more so easy to showcompassion that's from the
flesh, not from the Holy Spirit.
Mm-hmm.
If you're, I mean,'cause I'm the same way.
I will enable, actually I havea story about enabling somebody.
I remember, gosh, I was, I wasplaying downtown Nashville a lot
and I had this pretty regulargig and I also had a buddy of
(21:30):
mine who was really talented.
And I thought to myself,you know, he really
needs some money.
Why don't I justadd him to my gig?
They're not gonnapay me any more.
That means I'll end upearning less 'cause.
But I was willing to do that.
I was willing to bring him on,not get paid any more by the
venue, and just pay him outof what I was earning, just so
that he could earn some money.
(21:53):
And I did that for a longtime and he didn't have a car.
And I would even go pickhim up, take him to the
show, drop him back off.
I mean, I was just doingeverything for this guy,
giving him random moneytoo, just to help him.
'cause I believed in him.
I believed in him so much.
Yeah.
And I remember years later,I just heard this word and
it was, Jesus calls you togive to the poor and the
(22:16):
destitute, not to the lazy.
And I was like.
Wow.
I totally just enabled thisguy because it wasn't the
Holy Spirit nudging me to goout on a limb to help him.
It totally was just myown feelings, and the
truth of the matter isnothing I did changed him.
(22:38):
It didn't changethe way he lived.
It didn't change his process.
It didn't give him a leg up outof his circumstances, it just
kept him in his circumstances.
Yeah.
And that's when you know it'shuman compassion versus the
compassion of the Holy Spirit.
Because when I'm operating outof Jesus's compassion, there
actually is transformation.
Daniel (22:57):
Yeah.
Kayley (22:58):
I think that is a mark of knowing I'm not operating
in my flesh right now.
And you can see the fruit of it.
There's fruit whenyou're walking in the
compassion of Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
anyway, I just, I justthought of that so.
If you're out there listeningand you've enabled somebody,
I enabled them first.
Daniel (23:17):
Yeah.
But it's also what you'resaying right there is that, um,
for something to start grow,it has to be crushed first.
Uh, yeah.
Like a seed.
It has to go into the ground.
It has to be crushedbefore it can boom.
Yeah.
Kayley (23:29):
Wine.
Yeah.
Wine do you haveto crush the grape?
Daniel (23:31):
I think it's because it's, uh, preparing you for
what you're about to face.
Yeah.
As you have to go a lot oftimes through hard times.
Yeah.
Uh, before, uh, youreach the good times.
And, um, but the thing is,I think a lot of people like
to be in the crushed state.
Because then they're ina victimized position.
Kayley (23:53):
Yes.
Daniel (23:54):
That everybody want to help them.
Yes.
And they're saying,poor me, poor me.
Can you help me?
Yes.
And they will never getout of that phase until
you start making them grow.
Yeah.
you just keep them there,nothing will happen.
Kayley (24:06):
Well then, now here's another question.
Is compassion telling the truth?
Daniel (24:11):
Yeah.
Always.
Kayley (24:12):
Always?
Yeah.
Have you had todeliver the truth?
Before.
Daniel (24:17):
Yes.
And that's also, that's alsothe difference between Jesus and
me because what's, same idea,
Kayley (24:23):
the difference between Jesus and me,
that's a good song title.
Nobody take that.
We're gonna write that.
Me and Dan are gonna write that.
Daniel (24:28):
But as we're speaking about compassion right now,
the word actually revealsitself more and more.
And also what I saidearlier on is that I
have so much compassion.
Maybe I don't.
Maybe I just want to makepeople like me better.
Oof.
Yeah.
I think that's mightbe the thing about me.
Yeah.
Because it's hardto tell the truth.
(24:50):
Mm.
Because then theywon't like me anymore.
Mm.
That's not compassion
Kayley (24:54):
and that's not Jesus.
Daniel (24:55):
Exactly.
That's me.
Kayley (24:57):
But it's so true.
We, we do that.
I so.
Switching gears a little bit.
Um, I ended up doing adeliverance session recently and
before people like hang up thephone or turn this podcast off.
I'm gonna explain thedeliverance session because
I think it's something thatwe all should kind of be
(25:19):
partaking in if we're aChristian walking with the Lord.
And it starts withthe Lord's Prayer.
It's like, um, uh.
What's the beginningof the Lord's Prayer?
Why am I blanking on it?
Oh, father, who art in heavenfather who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
The kingdom come, thywill be done on earth
as it is in heaven.
Give us a day our daily breadand forgive us our debts
(25:39):
as we forgive our debtors.
Lead us not into temptation,but deliver us from evil.
Mm-hmm.
And I keep thinkingabout the Lord's Prayer.
When the disciples came to Jesusand said, teach us how to pray,
he said, deliver us from evil.
And so if we'refollowing the Lord.
And we're walking with him,we're following his ways,
and he's telling us to dailypray to deliver us from evil.
(26:02):
Then there's something to that,and I think about deliverance,
similar to going to the doctor.
So as humans, we aresoul, body and spirit.
We've got our bodies.
We go to the doctors for ourbodies, for our souls, which
is our mind will and emotions.
We go see psychiatrists,we go see therapists.
We do all of that, butare we really doing
(26:23):
anything for our spirit?
Mm-hmm.
If you're, if you're afaithful believer, you know
that we don't fight againstflesh and blood, but the
spirits and principalitiesof the unseen realm.
Yeah.
So what are we doing forour spiritual health,
um, beyond prayer?
And maybe, are wepraying the right way?
Yeah, because I think weshould be, I mean the,
(26:44):
Jesus gave us power in hisdeath and resurrection.
We have power to vanquish the,the, the schemes of the devil
just in rebuking and saying, anddecreeing and declaring and um,
anyway, so in this deliverancesession, which is basically
what that is, you, I, I wentin and you do a lot of like
breaking of agreements of like,yes, I agreed with the enemy
(27:08):
that I am always a problem.
I made that agreement.
My ex-husband told me Iwas always the problem.
The next roommate Ihad after that always
said I was the problem.
So clearly I'm the problem,but that was totally in
agreement with the enemy.
And so you have to go andyou have to break that off.
And in this specificdeliverance session.
(27:29):
The team that I was with,they were interceding for me.
They were also praying toHoly Spirit praying with
Holy Spirit on my behalf.
And they asked me, they said,Kayley, will you ask Jesus
what your opposition isin this scenario that
you need breakthrough in?
I said, okay.
So I asked the Lord,what's my opposition?
And he said, kindness.
(27:50):
I'm like, okay, make thatmake sense because kindness
is a fruit of the spirit.
So.
Why would kindnessbe my opposition?
Mm-hmm.
And then I realized throughour discussion and the the
session itself, I was broughtback to a memory of my mother
where she taught me to "kill'em with kindness", which I
(28:13):
don't know if you have a phraselike that in Norway, but here
Daniel (28:16):
I don't think so.
Kayley (28:17):
Yeah.
It just means like.
If someone has a hardershell or if someone, if
someone is mean, you break'em down with kindness.
Yeah.
You, you, you show kindness toget them to be like pliable and
malleable and happy or whatever.
And my mom taught me that ata young age, and I realized
my whole life I've beenwalking with this concept
of kill him with kindness.
(28:38):
And I had to learnin that session.
I, I did learn that I havebeen operating my whole life
in kindness from the flesh.
Versus the Lord's version ofkindness, because God has a
boundary line for his kindness.
And if you cross outta thatboundary line for his kindness,
that's when you start usingkindness to manipulate,
(28:59):
control, enable, um, protectyourself, seek validation.
And I was using kindnessfor all of those things.
So no wonder I wasexhausted and tired.
Anyway, this is a long spielof me talking about this
deliverance leading to kindness.
But it, to me, I hear thesame thing with compassion.
Because if you operateoutside of God's depiction
(29:23):
and definition of compassion,you will find yourself showing
compassion, an earthly versionof compassion that doesn't
have any action behind it, thatis laced with pity and that
ha gleans no transformation.
And I just think that he wants,he wants more for his disciples.
He wants us to really know whatit means to be Jesus to the
(29:45):
crowd that needs a shepherd.
Daniel (29:47):
Absolutely.
I think, uh, we have a sayingin Norway and it's called
doing someone a bear favor.
Not bear, drink bear,but bear the animal.
Kayley (29:58):
Like bear, like BEAR.
Daniel (30:00):
Yes.
Kayley (30:02):
Doing someone a bear favor.
Daniel (30:04):
Exactly.
Okay.
Kayley (30:04):
Explain
Daniel (30:05):
that means that.
I have kids, two kids.
Mm-hmm.
if I let them stayup all night mm-hmm.
Watching movies.
Mm-hmm.
and they were supposedto go to school mm-hmm.
Seven o'clock in the morning.
Mm-hmm.
They will love me because I'mthe best dad ever when I let
them watch the movies, but inthe long run, it will hurt them.
(30:26):
So that's what's it meansto do somebody a bare favor.
Kayley (30:29):
So it's kind of like a bad favor.
Daniel (30:31):
It's a bad favor, yeah.
It's a you, they love youbecause you're letting
them do what they wannado then and there.
Yeah.
And, and maybe that's,if you, if you draw that
into a Christian, uh,thought, What about heaven?
What about life after death?
What about Jesus?
Stuff like that.
Mm-hmm.
And I tell everybody thatyou don't need Jesus because
(30:52):
I want them to like me.
Mm. Or I want them to feellike they're good enough.
Mm-hmm.
So they can walk outof there feeling good.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Instead of saying,you're actually a sinner.
Mm-hmm.
You, you, you're notdeserving heaven.
Mm-hmm.
But because of God and becausewhat Jesus did on the cross.
Mm. You do.
Yeah.
That's harder to say.
Kayley (31:11):
It's, it's hard to deliver the gospel.
It is, yeah.
I mean, there are peoplethat have told me like,
Kayley, you're so bold.
You're so brave for talkingabout Jesus or whatever.
I'm like, you don't understand.
Like, yeah, I usedto be terrified of
talking about faith.
One, I could not even tellyou what the gospel was,
first of all, so I had nobusiness talking about it,
(31:33):
but I did believe in it.
Yeah.
And, and secondly, I didn'tknow the compassion of God.
No.
Like this whole podcast, liketalking about Jesus, talking
about the ways in which youcan live a rich and fulfilling
life through him because that'shis will and desire for you.
Like it would be cruel for meto withhold some of the roadmap.
(31:53):
Yeah.
It would be, it would becruel for me to withhold
some of the testimony.
Mm-hmm.
Because it does lead totransformation in my, in my
opinion and belief and, andjust the outcome of people
that have watched thispodcast and reached out to me.
And I, I just thinklike I walked into a new
understanding of the lovethat Jesus has and I want
(32:14):
everybody to know what it is.
Daniel (32:16):
Yes.
And that's what convinced meto believe that I was allowed,
I have to say, allowed to becalled a Christian because I
felt like I couldn't do that.
And, um.
The way I look atJesus now Yeah.
Compared to before.
Yeah.
I, I felt like he wasthis judgmental man
sitting on a, a big guy.
(32:37):
Yeah.
And just, only watchedthe bad things I did.
Mm. And uh, the more Iunderstand that what Jesus did
on the cross for me is enough.
Mm-hmm.
it changed the whole thing.
And I think the devilwants you to believe that
you're not good enough.
Yeah.
And that you feel.
You feel a better person tosay that I'm not a Christian.
(32:59):
Yeah.
Because I do so,so many bad things.
Mm. Because you feel likethat's how it's supposed to be.
Kayley (33:07):
Like you're like, you deserve that.
So it Yeah.
But it doesn't make youfeel better in the end.
It just makes youfeel worthless.
Daniel (33:12):
Yeah.
But it, you feel likethat's, I felt like I was
being more honest to notsay that I was a Christian.
Okay.
I thought that was honesty.
Kayley (33:21):
So when did it change and how did it, and
how did it change and whatdoes it look like now?
Daniel (33:25):
It took a while.
Kayley (33:26):
Okay.
Daniel (33:26):
It was a, a long road and, um, now I feel
like I'm not focusing anymoreon things I'm doing wrong.
Okay.
I'm trying to do the best Ican, but when you do that,
when you're trying to dostuff for Jesus and thinking
about, I belong to Jesus.
Yeah.
You want to do good things.
Yeah.
If you believe that you'renot belong to Jesus Christ,
(33:49):
you don't care anymore.
Mm-hmm.
And that's the, that's, uh,the danger in, uh, how you
tell people about the gospel.
Yeah.
Because, it's so,it's like my daddy.
My daddy is a pastor, andhe says it's so easy that
it takes a human beingto make it difficult.
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kayley (34:08):
That's pretty good.
But I think also, you know, inscripture it says, think on what
is good, what is, um, beautiful,what is worthy of praise.
Mm-hmm.
Think on these things.
Yeah.
And how often doesthe enemy wanna get us
thinking on the opposite?
Exactly.
And I think that's where we,we end up forfeiting the gift.
Yeah.
(34:29):
Because what you were doingin focusing on all the
ways that you are not good.
Yeah.
And a bad Christian or whatever.
You forfeited God'slove in your life.
You forfeited God's favor.
You forfeited God's freedom thathe had for you, his peace, his
joy, simply because your focuswas on all the ways in which
you were terrible and not theways in which God redeemed you.
(34:51):
Yeah, and it doesn't meanthat, I mean, I'm still a worm.
Like I remember, I rememberwhen I was going through it,
I was living on my knees.
And that, that was the onlyway I could get through my day.
I just, I needed Jesusso bad every day I was
living on my knees, and itwas in that season that I
learned I was just a worm.
Mm-hmm.
I was such a worm andI needed him so bad.
(35:15):
Yeah.
And it was pain that brought methere, and it was there that I
learned reliance on the Lord.
And now I learned how to relyon him in the good ways too,
like in the good seasons duringthe, the blessed seasons,
during seasons of harvest.
Oh.
Because I learned how to servehim and, and lean on him in
the, in the hard, barren times.
Daniel (35:34):
Yeah.
The thing is, um, when Iwent through that phase
for many years, it's hardfor you to believe that
Jesus actually loves you.
And that's the thing thatI was struggling with.
Yeah.
And I've kind ofmade peace with that.
Okay.
Because I wasn't good enoughand I, my thoughts were
somewhere else because Ifelt like, why, why do I even
(35:55):
think about Jesus at all?
Yeah.
And then his way,how do you say that?
It's not our ways.
Kayley (36:02):
Yeah.
His ways are not our our ways.
Daniel (36:03):
So everything I did, it led me back to Jesus somehow.
Mm-hmm.
And, craziest thing Iever experienced was, I
was thinking about this.
Am I really good enough, Am I?
I wanted to be, and I was on myway back and I was the prodigal
son on his way back to thehouse, but I wasn't there yet.
Okay.
I was going there and,uh, we wrote the song,
(36:24):
the, the Old Church.
Kayley (36:26):
Yes.
Daniel (36:27):
And I sang that at 3rd And Lindsley and when I
came back to Norway, uh, mywife, she had, uh, videotaped
the whole thing on her phone.
Mm-hmm.
And I was, uh, puttingsubtitles, uh, in
English on the song.
Okay.
I was going to put it out there.
And the whole time I wasthinking, does Jesus loves me?
(36:48):
Am I good enough?
And the crazy thing, Istill have that tape.
The crazy thing is thatwhen the guitar player,
I don't know his name.
Uh, there were a couple guitarplayers on that session.
Yeah.
The one that played, uh,was it Gideon Friend?
We have in Jesus?
Oh, I don't knowwhich one did that.
No.
Okay.
Whatever.
One of the guitar players, oneof the guitar players, yeah.
When he played that, the introon the song, suddenly the
(37:12):
subtitles came on, but thereare no words right there.
So I'm not starting singingbefore maybe 10 seconds later.
Wow.
And it says, do, do, do.
I do, do do, love, do, do you.
So wait.
Somebody said, I love youwhen standing on that stage.
(37:34):
And I have goosebumps right now.
And it was like, Icouldn't believe that
was actually happened.
So I took it back and Ihave a studio back home.
So I did the equalizerand tried to see
Kayley (37:45):
somebody said it on a mic or something.
Daniel (37:47):
Yeah.
And there's dead silence.
It's only the guitar.
Kayley (37:50):
It's just the guitar.
Daniel (37:50):
Yeah.
And that's before Ising a Christian song
about my faith and all.
And it was, I,
Kayley (37:55):
and this was at my show.
Yeah.
Last October.
Daniel (37:57):
Yeah.
And it said, I love you.
And from that time I was like,yeah, he actually loves me.
So I, I, I'm allowed tosay that I'm a Christian.
Kayley (38:09):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And we'd known eachother for a little bit.
Yeah.
By that point.
And you never told methat you struggled with
feeling God's love for you.
Daniel (38:18):
No.
Kayley (38:19):
Wow.
Oh, that's so good.
He's so good.
Yeah.
He's a miracle workerand he also knows the
cries of our heart.
He knows where we struggleand he comes in in
miraculous ways that don'tmake sense to just earth.
Daniel (38:37):
Yeah.
Kayley (38:37):
And he comes in, he just reveals his love.
Daniel (38:40):
Yes.
It's amazing.
And,
Kayley (38:41):
and it changed you.
Daniel (38:43):
It changed me.
It did.
Kayley (38:43):
It changed you.
Yeah.
That was his compassion.
I feel for you, Daniel.
I feel for you that youdon't think I love you.
I need to tell you in a reallybeautiful, miraculous way.
Yeah.
And now you get changed.
Mm-hmm.
So how is it in Norway now?
Are you declaring that you'rea Christian over there?
Daniel (39:02):
Yeah.
I, I need to be bolder.
Okay.
But, uh, we say Norway, weprobably do that here too.
We say Saved.
I'm saved.
Mm-hmm.
And that's another thingto say that I'm saved.
Mm-hmm.
And to say that I'm aChristian in Norway.
Kayley (39:16):
Really?
Yeah.
Why is it different?
Daniel (39:18):
if you say you're a Christian,
that's more the religion.
Christian.
Okay.
That you believe in God, butyou don't have a personal
relationship with God.
Kayley (39:25):
Okay.
Daniel (39:26):
So when you say you saved, that's say, oh, really?
So that's another level kind of,
Kayley (39:34):
this is so fascinating to me.
I know.
Daniel (39:36):
So Christian and saved are the same thing,
but at the same timeit's not the same thing.
Kayley (39:42):
Well, it's, you know, there's a lot of Christians,
there's a, you know, there'sa lot of unbelievers that
I've encountered thathave no knowledge that
they need to be saved.
Yeah.
I think in the westernworld, we do everything
we need for ourselves.
Like we have our basic needsmet, food, shelter, clothing.
We're not hungry for that.
(40:03):
Mm-hmm.
And we become our own God.
I mean, we are in the worldview.
The worldview of if youwant something, you go
out and you go get it.
Yeah.
And when you operate in that wayand everything you acquire was
through your own strength, will.
Yeah.
Et cetera, then youjust don't need a God.
Mm-hmm.
That's how a lot of peopleoperate and therefore
(40:23):
you are your own God.
Yeah.
I was my own God for a longtime, even I even claimed
Jesus and I was my own God,and it's because I didn't
submit my ways to the Lord.
Mm-hmm.
And the Bible says like, submitall your ways into the Lord and
he will make your path straight.
My paths were crooked as hell.
You know, like they were,they were, they were
not good looking paths.
(40:45):
Yeah.
And I'm sitting herethinking, oh, look at me.
I can do all things.
And then, yeah, hereI am needing to give
my life to the Lord.
And I knew I neededsaving from myself.
Yeah.
But most people don't thinkthey need to be saved.
Daniel (40:59):
I know,
Kayley (41:00):
So the, that even that concept even
of Oh, you got saved.
What did you get saved from?
Geez.
Were you likeexactly in the ditch?
No, I was literally my own God.
That's what happened.
Daniel (41:10):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying to people because a lot
of people saying, oh, you thinkyou're so much better than me?
Because you're going toheaven and you're saved.
I was like, no,I'm worse than you.
I need Jesus.
You think you can getthere by yourself, so yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's hard.
We need Jesus to get there.
So, yeah,
Kayley (41:25):
there's a scripture in Habakkuk, which is one
of the prophets in the, inthe Old Testament, and, uh,
it says, it's talking, Ithink about the Babylonians
with their fierce chariotsand their mighty horses.
And he said, the Biblesaid they are so, uh, no.
What does it say?
Uh, they are filled withguilt because their own
(41:46):
strength is their God.
Yeah.
And that's so people.
Mm-hmm.
That's just pe That's human.
That's humanity.
Daniel (41:53):
It is.
Kayley (41:55):
This is why there's burnout.
This is why they,we need therapy.
Daniel (42:00):
Yeah, but it's true.
Kayley (42:00):
This, this is why we need a shepherd.
This is why we need thecompassion of Jesus.
Daniel (42:04):
Exactly.
These sheeps would justwander away because
they're really stupid.
Kayley (42:10):
They're so stupid.
Daniel (42:11):
They're so stupid, and so are we.
Yeah.
At least I am.
I'm so stupid.
But if, yeah.
So I'm You need a shepherd.
Human beings.
You need a shepherd.
You, you wake up inthe morning like Jesus.
Say, we all sin.
Yeah.
Why do we do that?
Kayley (42:28):
Why do we sin?
Daniel (42:28):
Yeah.
It's because we're sheeps.
Kayley (42:30):
We're sheeps.
Sheeps.
Yeah.
Jeeps,
Daniel (42:32):
sheep, Jeeps, Jeeps.
We're Jeeps.
Yeah.
So because we're stupid andwe're just, you're stupid.
Yeah.
We, we need Jesus.
And.
To understand thatwe need Jesus.
And the most important thingthat I understood after a while
is that he loved us first.
He wants us to come to him.
(42:52):
Yeah.
It's not like I hope Jesus,that I'm good enough right
now that I can come to you.
He, that's what he wants.
Yeah.
And he, he loves us first.
That's why we love him.
Yeah.
And he died on the crossbecause that he wants us.
And to understand thatinstead of thinking that
no, he don't, he doesn'twant me because I'm so bad.
I'm doing so many things wrong.
(43:13):
Uh, you're justfooling yourself and
Kayley (43:15):
Well, that's the enemy.
Daniel (43:16):
That's the enemy.
Kayley (43:17):
It's the enemy.
I, I like to say this a lot.
Is the voice in yourhead building you up,
or is it burying you?
Yeah,because God's voice in your
life will never, ever bury you.
It will always build you.
Yeah.
AndI wish I would've known that.
Years ago because it would'vesaved me from a lot of
self-inflicted torture.
Yeah, that's good.
Where I'm like, I'm the worstof, because I, you know, just
(43:41):
as I was performing beforeGod was the Lord of my life.
I then began performing whenhe was the Lord of my life.
I'm like, I have to performthis way, and this way, and
this way in faith, in orderfor God to give me favor.
Mm-hmm.
But no, he like givesme these good gifts.
And then I'm like,wait, wait, wait.
I don't deserve this.
Like, look at how Iwas behaving this week.
Like what are youyou're providing for me?
(44:03):
Oh my gosh, I didn'teven deserve this.
Yeah.
And he's like, exactly.
Daniel (44:06):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kayley (44:07):
Exactly.
And then what doesthat make me wanna do?
It makes me want to obey him.
Yeah.
It makes me want to servehim and love him and seek
him and be like, okay, Lord.
Like Wow, you really, man,you paid my bills this week.
Um.
What, how can I, how canI, how can I love you?
Mm-hmm.
How can I serve you?
Who, who, who do youwant me to minister to?
(44:28):
What, what can I dofor your kingdom?
Yeah.
And most of the time hejust says, ah, why don't
you just hang out with me?
Daniel (44:33):
That's what he wants.
Kayley (44:34):
Why don't you just spend time with me?
Daniel (44:35):
And also when you talk to him about compassion,
I think it's David, in oneof those psalms, he says,
if I make my bed in hell yeah.
You are there.
Yeah.
So instead of thinking ofthat, I'm not good enough.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, he will be there always.
And that's compassion.
(44:55):
the compassion fromJesus, not ours.
Kayley (44:58):
I think it's also showing a low view of God.
Mm-hmm.
To say, oh, look how bad I am.
Look at how worthless I am.
Like he doesn't wanna save meor he doesn't need to save me.
You're also in away saying he can't.
Exactly.
He can't save me.
I am just this wor, I'm likethis terrible of a person.
Mm-hmm.
And that is establishing,establishing a low view
(45:20):
of God and who he is.
And I had a friend justliterally last night talk about
a prayer that she, she has.
She's like, ah, I really,you know, wish the Lord
would do this, but I don'twanna ask him 'cause it's
not that big of a deal.
And you know, he's gotbigger fish to fry.
And I'm like.
My friend, my dear, my sister.
That's a low view of God.
Daniel (45:41):
Yeah, it is.
Kayley (45:41):
Don't you think he cares about the big things
and the small things?
Yeah.
You're his daughter.
I said, imagine ifyou had a child.
And, and, and actuallyit was about like, um,
I think a toothache.
It was a, she had atoothache and she's like,
I gotta go to the dentistand I just want this.
I've never had atoothache before.
I've never had a cavity before.
And I just, I don't, Ijust don't wanna bother
(46:02):
the Lord with a tooth.
I said, can you imagineif you had a child.
Who had a toothache and theydidn't come to you and say,
mom, I have a toothache.
Mm-hmm.
I need help.
Yeah.
She's like, I wouldtake him outside back
and I would slap him.
Like, I'd be mad youdidn't tell me about this.
Exactly.
I said, that's how theLord feels when we don't
bring our issues to him.
Yeah.
He's the great healer.
(46:23):
He's the great, uh,he's the medicine man.
Yeah.
Like he wants to comein and make whole what
is un whole mm-hmm.
Heal.
What is unhealed?
Restore what is torn down.
Yeah.
Build up what is broken down.
That's who he is, that'swhat he wants to do.
And so if we can have compassionfor ourselves and the compassion
(46:44):
of the Holy Spirit thatactually changes us mm-hmm.
And changes our environment,then we will go to him and
ask for the restoration, askfor the healing, ask for him
to be Lord over everything.
Daniel (46:56):
Yes.
And I believe that, uh,Jesus is God made flesh.
Mm. He came to earth.
Yeah.
So he's been throughall those things.
Yes.
I don't know if heever had toothache.
Kayley (47:09):
He might have had a toothache
Daniel (47:10):
maybe.
But he, he knows howto feel, to be sad.
Yeah.
To be angry.
To cry.
Yeah.
To feel, uh, woundedin, in any way.
Yeah.
To feel betrayal.
Yeah.
He felt all that.
Yeah.
So he can relate.
So when we say, dear Jesus,um, I'm really sad today.
(47:30):
Mm. This is a,this is a hard one.
This is the worst day I ever had
Kayley (47:33):
in my life.
Yeah.
Daniel (47:34):
Yeah.
He, he can relate towhatever feeling we have,
Kayley (47:37):
He can relate to it,
Daniel (47:38):
and that's what I think is a personal
relationship with God.
Yeah.
Because if he's my dad,I would've called on
my dad and said, do youhave some painkillers
for my tooth right now?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, I think that'sthe personal relationship
God wants us to have.
Mm-hmm.
Not to put him.
He, he's the, he, he'sthe king of kings.
(47:59):
That's not what I'm saying.
But he's also,
Kayley (48:01):
he is, but he is, he is the lion and the lamb.
Daniel (48:04):
Exactly.
Kayley (48:04):
And it's, it's so beautiful when we think about
that because it, it says, itsays like, pick up your cross.
But it's like there, Ithink in scripture it
talks about the fellowshipof Christ's sufferings.
Mm-hmm.
And I think when we are grieved.
We're in fellowship with Jesus.
Yeah.
Because he also too grieved.
Mm-hmm.
And how beautiful isit to relate to Jesus?
(48:27):
It's, it puts himin the room with us.
Yeah.
It, it takes down this dividingwall of separation of like,
oh, he doesn't understand me.
He doesn't get me.
This is why I am a worthlesspiece of, you know, sack
of rice or whatever.
Yeah.
And, um, he doesn't wannapay any attention to me when
it's like he was that person.
Yeah.
He, he wanted.
He, he, and then the compassionhe had for that crowd, I keep
(48:50):
going back to that crowd.
Mm-hmm.
He saw them and with compassion,the twisting up of his insides.
Yeah.
Like, that's crazy.
To me, that's what he felt whenhe had compassion, the twisting
and wrenching of his insides.
That's how much grief he had.
Mm-hmm.
For those people thatdidn't have a shepherd
that were being led astray,
Daniel (49:10):
I think a lot of times about, the
woman, that were caught.
Kayley (49:14):
In in adultery.
Daniel (49:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
the, the cool thing thatI've been thinking about
is that Jesus saying toall the Pharisees and all
the people there that you,without stone, you without
sin, cast the first stone.
Yeah.
And then it kneels down andhe writes something in sand.
Kayley (49:30):
He writes in the sand.
Yeah.
Nobody knows what he said.
Daniel (49:32):
Nobody knows.
Kayley (49:32):
What do you think he said?
Um.
That Greek word for compassionthat I can't pronounce.
Daniel (49:38):
That's what he said.
But what I'm thinkingabout, he takes his finger.
Yeah.
And he writes, so I wasthinking, did he write
the 10 Commandments?
Because the other timesomebody writes something
with his finger, it's God onthe mountain when he gives
them the 10 Commandments.
So what if you did that?
Because the pharisee,they they knew that.
Kayley (49:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, interesting.
Daniel (49:59):
You know, but the coolest thing is, jesus is
standing there in front ofthem perfect God in flesh.
Yeah.
He's maybe the one thatwrote the rules for that
woman that was there.
Mm. He was the one thathad written all the laws.
Yeah.
And then he said, he askedher, does any of these
people, um, judge you?
(50:20):
Because they all left.
Yeah.
And nobody does.
And neither do I.
Kayley (50:24):
Neither do I.
Daniel (50:25):
What he say?
C Condemn you.
Kayley (50:26):
Condemn you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel (50:27):
He could do that.
He, he could condemn her.
Kayley (50:30):
But he didn't come to the world to condemn.
Exactly.
He came to the world to save
Daniel (50:33):
and he's the one that wrote the, the rules.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he came to save and restore.
Yeah.
And give life,
Kayley (50:41):
uh, He's a God of mercy.
Daniel (50:43):
Yeah.
And also another thing that Iwas thinking about when you was
talking about the God's Prayer.
That
Kayley (50:48):
the what?
Daniel (50:49):
The, the God's Prayer.
No, what?
Kayley (50:51):
Oh, the Lord's Prayer.
Daniel (50:52):
Yeah.
The Lord's Prayer.
Yeah.
So when you are not having the.
Relationship with God anymore.
Yeah.
That you don'tthink you deserve.
Kayley (51:00):
Okay.
Daniel (51:01):
the praying after a while will stop.
Mm. So you are leaning onthings you heard before
because you have no context,your connection with the Lord
Kayley (51:12):
Yeah.
Okay.
Daniel (51:13):
So one of the coolest things I think in
the Lord's Prayer is giveus today the daily bread.
Yes.
Give us our daily bread.
Kayley (51:19):
Yes.
Daniel (51:20):
Every single day.
Yeah.
Because when Isaac and Abraham,when Abraham was about to
sacrifice Isaac mm-hmm.
He was, he, he, he wasgiven the word mm-hmm.
And was going to do that.
But then he didn't hearabout the daily word.
He didn't, he needed onemore word to set him free.
Mm.
So that's what we need.
We need the dailybread every day.
Yeah.
To know what to do every day.
Kayley (51:40):
Yeah.
For man does not live bybread alone, but every
word from the mouth of God.
Exactly.
Ugh.
This is so good.
Yeah.
Well, I think we'rerunning outta time.
Daniel (51:48):
Absolutely.
Yep.
Kayley (51:48):
But I'm just so glad that I was able to catch you
while you were stateside andI can't wait to go back to
Norway and to see all thepeople and play more music.
Yeah.
Again, 'cause I knowwe're gonna do that again
this, this Christmas.
Um.
But anyway, y'all, thankyou so much for listening,
tuning into Bible Bish Today.
I hope that something that weha had said, something that
we've said has stirred in yourchest, whether it was showing
(52:11):
your own version of compassionversus Holy Spirit's, or
Jesus's version of compassion.
I hope you're not enablingpeople like we have, and I
hope that you also understandthat God loves you so much and
that his compassion is for you.
There's a twisting upof his insides for you
if you are a led astray.
He wants you in his flock.
(52:33):
He wants you to have himas your shepherd because
he will always restore you.
He will help youwhen you're downcast.
He will lift you up.
in his glory, he will exalt you.
And so anyway, I just, welove you so much and make
sure you follow, subscribe,like do all the things.
Absolutely.
Share this podcast with someonethat you love and in the name
(52:53):
of love, go be blessed and havea wonderful rest of your day.
the difference between Jesus and us, we can have
(00:02):
compassion, but we just,there's no action . So we just.
Move on.
Kayley (00:06):
If you operate outside of God's depiction
and definition of compassion,you will find yourself
showing compassion, thatis laced with pity and that
gleans no transformation.
Wow.
Hello.
Thank you forjoining Bible Bish.
I am so glad to beback in the studio.
It's been a few months.
(00:27):
I was in Japan over the summer,but I'm back and I've got a
great friend that I have made.
His name is Daniel Borge,he's actually Norwegian, and
that's how you pronounce it.
If you're Norwegian.
Daniel Borge.
Yes.
But if you're American like me,you can just say Daniel Borge.
Daniel (00:48):
Sounds good.
Kayley (00:48):
He, he will respond to that one too.
Uh, he's a great friend of mine.
We've played music and we'vegone on tour all over Norway
together, and he's actuallyhere in Nashville right now.
And I wanted to capitalizeon this moment and get you
in the studio and we'regonna talk about compassion.
Daniel is super Spirit filled.
We have the most beautifulrevelatory conversations
(01:10):
when we're on the road, andI wanted to bring that here
for you guys to listen to.
So we're gonna talk aboutcompassion, and before we
get started, I actually wannagive you a definition of
compassion, but specificallythe Greek version.
The Greek word is, I'm not gonnapronounce this very well at all.
(01:31):
It's fine.
It's splagchnizomai
Daniel (01:37):
Yeah, probably that's, yeah.
You didn't pronounceit any good at all?
Kayley (01:41):
No, I didn't.
That was quite horrendous.
I'm actually reallygood at pronunciation.
Splagchnizomai Mm-hmm.
Um, it's a word used inthe gospels to describe
Jesus's compassion.
It's not just a surfacefeeling, it's a deep,
visceral response, like yourguts twisting inside you.
That's kind of nuts.
(02:01):
This is the kind of compassionJesus showed, and it
always moved him to action.
Whether he was healing thesick, feeding the hungry,
or teaching the lost.
It wasn't just a feeling offeeling sorry for someone,
it was seeing theirneed and being so deeply
moved that he had to stepin and meet that need.
That's kind of a,that's wild to me.
Daniel (02:20):
Yeah.
Yes,
Kayley (02:20):
and I think, anyway, so let's just,
let's just dive right in.
Daniel, I want you to give meyour definition of compassion
as you have lived it out inyour life up to this point.
Daniel (02:35):
Uh, yeah.
Uh, for me, I think, uh,as a person, uh, compassion
just comes naturally to me.
Kayley (02:44):
Oh,
Daniel (02:44):
yeah.
I feel like sometimesit's maybe too much.
Okay.
Um, I have to think about whatthe word means, but, uh,
I feel like it's empathya word you have in, uh.
Kayley (02:55):
Yeah.
Empathy.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
Daniel (02:56):
yeah.
It's kind of the same thing.
Kayley (02:58):
Okay.
Daniel (02:58):
Yeah.
So sometimes it's um, when youhave too much empathy mm-hmm.
It might, uh, it might beharder to make decisions.
Kayley (03:06):
Okay.
Daniel (03:07):
Business wise.
Kayley (03:08):
Business wise, yeah.
Interesting.
Daniel (03:10):
For example you have a business and you have a guy
working for you, and he's justdoing all the wrong things.
Okay.
And you ask him again and againand did, he just can't do what
you ask him to do, and then.
Suddenly you maybe have to firehim or something like that.
Yeah, but I can't do that.
I have too much.
Kayley (03:27):
You can't fire someone
Daniel (03:28):
No, I have too much compassion.
Kayley (03:29):
Wait, so what do you do?
Can, do you havean example of this?
Daniel (03:32):
Uh, yeah, I have, but I,
Kayley (03:35):
tell me, give me a story.
I wanna hear about this.
Daniel (03:36):
Yeah.
So I have this guy workingfor me and, um, uh, I'm,
I'm his boss boss, or I washis boss and I told him what
to do and he didn't do it.
And, uh, the thing thathappened was that he just
refused doing things.
Like, uh, I'm alsoworking as a roofer.
Kayley (03:54):
Okay.
Daniel (03:54):
So if, if it was cold outside or if it was
raining, he was like, no, Idon't wanna do that today.
And I was like, you have to.
It's your job.
And he was like,no, no, not today.
Yeah, I know.
And then I was like, angry.
And of course youhave to do that.
But then I was startedthinking about his family,
his wife, his kids.
What will happen tohim if I fire him?
(04:15):
But that's too much.
Kayley (04:17):
That's too much.
Daniel (04:18):
It's too much.
So you have to learnhow to have a balance.
Kayley (04:21):
Well, what happened?
Did you end up letting him go?
Daniel (04:23):
He, uh, yeah, I had to.
Kayley (04:26):
And how did that conversation go?
Daniel (04:28):
The, the problem was, yeah, the problem is that
when you push it too far, yeah.
Then I get angry and then Ido it, you know, in a angry
situation and that's not howyou're supposed to do it.
So, uh, that's what thatWe're best friends now.
Kayley (04:41):
You're best friends now?
Daniel (04:42):
Yeah.
Oh, but he's notworking for me anymore.
Kayley (04:44):
He's not working for you?
Daniel (04:46):
No.
Kayley (04:47):
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I think what youjust described is your
version of compassion.
Daniel (04:52):
Yeah.
Right.
Probably
Kayley (04:53):
versus like Holy Spirit's version of compassion.
Daniel (04:56):
That's something totally different.
Yeah.
Kayley (04:57):
So I want you to give me what, what is your idea
of the difference betweenHoly Spirit's, compassion
and like IE Jesus or HolySpirit's compassion and
your version of compassion?
Daniel (05:07):
I feel like, um.
The compassion that theHoly Spirit gives of Jesus
gives, without sayinganything wrong right now,
but it's not always fair.
Like, it's not always just
Kayley (05:21):
what, what do you mean?
It's like, what do youmean it's not fair or just,
Daniel (05:24):
uh, because, um, we are not, we, we doesn't deserve
everything God gives us.
Kayley (05:30):
Oh, I understand.
He doesn't, yeah.
Daniel (05:31):
We doesn't deserve, uh, forgiveness and all that.
Right.
But he gives that anyways.
Mm-hmm.
Because of his compassion to us.
Kayley (05:38):
Of course.
Daniel (05:38):
So if it would be like, this is how he's supposed to be.
Mm. We would never,ever got to get saved.
Stuff like that.
Kayley (05:48):
Of course, of course.
Daniel (05:48):
But it because of what Jesus did on the cross.
Yeah.
And that's compassion.
Mm-hmm.
For us.
So it's not always this is haveto, this is how it should be.
Yeah.
But because of his compassionand his love for us, we
get to do that anyways.
Kayley (06:02):
Yeah.
That's so good.
I was kind of doing a little bitof research on compassion and
what really is the differencebetween my human compassion and
the compassion that Jesus shows.
But there's a, there's apassage of scripture and it's.
It's Matthew 9 (06:16):
36.
And just to give some context,I'll read 35 says, Jesus
walked throughout the regionwith the joyful message
of God's kingdom realm.
He taught in their meetinghouses and wherever he
went, he demonstrated God'spower by healing every kind
of disease and illness.
When he saw the vast crowdsof people, Jesus's heart was
(06:39):
deeply moved with compassionbecause they seemed weary
and helpless, like wanderingsheep without a shepherd.
He turned to his disciplesand he said, the harvest
is huge and ripe.
But there are not enoughharvesters to bring it all in.
As you go, plead with theowner of the harvest, IE
God, to thrust out many morereapers to harvest this grain.
(06:59):
And so we see here, like hisheart was moved because the
crowd, they were wonderingsheep without a shepherd.
I mean, can you imaginesheep without a shepherd?
That's some serious compassion.
And it moved him to action.
And it wasn't based on, um,what Jesus wanted for himself.
Because when I think aboutthe times that I've been
compassionate, sometimes it'sbased on my own emotions.
(07:21):
Mm-hmm.
And like, okay, I feel, I feelsad and I want someone I don't
know to do something for me.
So I'll feel bad for themso that they see I feel bad
and maybe they'll like me.
Does that make sense?
Daniel (07:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, uh, menlike human being.
That's,
Kayley (07:39):
that's human.
Daniel (07:40):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kayley (07:40):
But like I, Jesus, there's not a point in scripture
where Jesus did something sothat people would like him.
Daniel (07:48):
No, it's not
Kayley (07:50):
more so I want you to follow me, and if you follow
me, you'll have eternal life.
Yeah.
It's not about following me tofollow me, it's about following
me, so that you can have freedomand you can come back to life.
You can be alive.
Mm-hmm.
And so anyway, I just, Ithink that's a beautiful idea
of, okay, maybe my versionof compassion is rooted in
(08:11):
my emotions, but I wannahear from you 'cause you say
that you're naturally reallygood at being compassionate.
I wanna hear from you wherecompassion is challenging.
Daniel (08:22):
Oh yeah.
Yes.
Um, to be honest, likethere's, um, when.
Yes.
Like I just told you, likemy, when my compassion comes
between what's right and wrong.
Kayley (08:37):
Oh, okay.
Daniel (08:37):
Yeah.
That's the, I, I, I find ithard to like let people down.
Oh, okay.
And that's also a bigopposite from Jesus.
Yeah.
Because he didn't care if helet them down because he just
told them this is righteous.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like, um.
I've been thinking a lotabout the Prodigal son.
Yeah.
Uh, I think it's in Luke 15.
(08:58):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kayley (08:59):
Maybe.
I don't know.
I need to reference it.
Yeah.
Daniel (09:01):
It's in there somewhere.
the thing right there is, therewas this man that had two sons.
Mm-hmm.
One of them left and didall the things wrong.
Kayley (09:11):
Yes.
Daniel (09:12):
Everything was so bad he moved to another country.
And, uh, it, it wasa sinful country, and
that's where he lived andthat's where he stayed.
Uh, and so many times wehear the story about him.
Mm-hmm.
How, uh, many thingshe did bad and yeah.
Yeah.
He, he was awful.
Yeah.
And then he found himself
Kayley (09:30):
Yeah.
Daniel (09:31):
And then he came back.
Yeah.
not so often.
Do people talk about, or thinkabout the son that was left
behind or stayed with his daddy?
Kayley (09:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel (09:40):
The thing that I've been thinking about is that
we can all see people that aredoing sin sinful things mm-hmm.
That you can see with your eyes.
Kayley (09:49):
Yes.
Daniel (09:50):
But the son that was, uh, with his dad, he
have a lot of sinful thoughtsthat nobody could see.
Kayley (09:55):
Yeah.
Oof.
Daniel (09:56):
Yeah.
I know.
So the thing is, yeah,I think there's a lot of
people that, that feel likeI'm doing everything right.
Yeah.
Like every, I, I've beenfollowing the rules.
Kayley (10:04):
Yeah.
Daniel (10:06):
But many times I think it's harder for them to
understand that they need Jesus.
Mm. Because they'reperfect in any way.
Kayley (10:12):
Well, 'cause they're earning it through
their human strength.
Daniel (10:15):
Exactly.
And also I think it's harderfor them to find compassion
because they haven't been there.
Kayley (10:21):
Mm. They haven't needed compassion shown to them.
Daniel (10:26):
Exactly.
Kayley (10:27):
So it's harder for them to show compassion to others.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Daniel (10:32):
Yeah.
Also in a lot ofchurches around.
I think a lot of times that'sa thing that is bigger than
many think about becausethere are people that are
doing everything perfect.
Yeah.
And you can't seethe sin on them.
Mm. But then you have peoplelike me that doing wrong
(10:53):
things all the time and,uh, but for me, I don't
have a problem to say that.
I am, I'm, I'msinning every day.
I'm, I'm doing so muchwrong and I need Jesus.
Kayley (11:03):
Yeah.
Daniel (11:03):
Because if not, if I don't have Jesus, I'm nothing.
Mm-hmm.
When there are people thatalmost like they, I'm, I'm
actually, I'm good enough.
Mm-hmm.
But it is good tohave Jesus too.
But you know what I mean?
Kayley (11:15):
You know, I, I feel like I relate to the son
that was left behind, thatdidn't go and wander astray.
'cause I have a prettyclean track record.
Uh, which is why when mywhole life fell apart, I
didn't understand who I was.
I had a complete identitycrisis, and as a result, a flood
of compassion has entered andI feel compassion for people.
(11:37):
Uh, but I still relate tothe son that stayed behind
because I have done so muchof trying to earn things
through my own strength andin that you almost carry a
spirit of judgment of you arekind of judging yourself based
on your abilities and yourachievements, and that naturally
bleeds over to judging othersfor how they're not achieving
(11:59):
or they're lazy or whatever.
And I still think I strugglewith that a little bit.
Um, even though I have so muchmore empathy and compassion for
people, I still struggle withthis, I think spirit of judgment
specifically for myself.
But if I'm judging myself,which is, it's not my role.
(12:21):
I need to completely givethat over to the Lord.
It's all ego and pride.
'cause I am not God, nordo I wanna be God and nor
do I wanna be a judge.
Uh, but it's like that innerdialogue of like self hatred
or frustration with myselffor not performing well.
And God's been doing acompletely new thing in my
life lately where he's like,I'm gonna root this out of you
(12:42):
and show you that th through.
I've been, I've been.
Exhausted.
And if I'm exhausted, I can'tperform and I can't produce,
and if I can't produce, thenit's like, well, am I worthy?
Am I like valuable?
Mm-hmm.
Am I valuable at all?
And if so, like I've equatedmy value to being productive.
And that's not what God issaying or wanting for me.
(13:05):
And so I've had to like letthat go and I think he's rooting
out that spirit of judgment inme through that process of why
don't, in your exhaustion, whydon't you just remain in me
and start, start being a humanbeing instead of a human doing?
Yeah.
And get your value from whatI say instead of what you do.
Mm-hmm.
And that's been a, a hardthing for me to understand and
(13:26):
really walk out because you canhear it, but that doesn't mean
you're walking it out well.
True.
Um, so I'm glad you broughtup the prodigal son.
'cause I kind of relate to him.
I have compassion for him.
Daniel (13:38):
Exactly.
But that's it.
Like people that youcan relate to Yeah.
May be sometimes easierto have compassion to.
Yeah.
And that's why I put Jesusso high, because Jesus
never done anything wrong.
He was perfect in any way.
Yeah.
And still he cried.
Kayley (13:52):
Yeah.
Daniel (13:53):
Among people.
Like when Lazarus was dead.
Yeah.
He cried.
Mm.
Even if he knew that hewas gonna rise again.
Yeah.
He, he felt for them.
Yeah.
He felt their sorrow.
Mm-hmm.
So, uh, yeah.
I think, uh, compassion is, uh,is a thing that is very deep.
Yeah.
To understand how to useit in the right ways.
Kayley (14:14):
You just, but you just touched on something, use it.
Daniel (14:17):
Yeah.
Kayley (14:18):
Can, do you think it's possible to show compassion
without taking action?
Daniel (14:23):
Mm. That's a good question.
Kayley (14:25):
I mean, 'cause when Jesus had compassion,
it moved him to action.
Yeah.
He saw the need that thepeople needed a shepherd,
and then immediately waslike, we need more laborers
to go disciple these people.
I mean, I always go back tothat scripture where Jesus
gave us the great commission,which is to go and make
disciples of the nations.
He didn't say, gomake believers.
(14:45):
No, go convert people.
He said, go make disciples.
And a disciple issomeone who follows.
Yeah.
And if you're following Jesus,then your whole life changes.
And if you're following Jesus,that means you have a shepherd.
Yeah.
I think there are a lot ofsheep that believe in Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
But don't actuallybelong in a flock.
Daniel (15:04):
Yeah.
Kayley (15:06):
And maybe I think that's the difference in that
commission of go make disciples,
Daniel (15:10):
but maybe that's also the difference between
Jesus and us, that maybewe can have compassion, but
we just, there's no actionin what we're thinking.
So we just.
Move on.
Kayley (15:20):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So that's not, that's not Jesus.
That's not Jesus and it's notHoly Spirit, so that's flesh.
Daniel (15:26):
Oh yeah.
Kayley (15:26):
That's a human version of compassion.
Mm-hmm.
I think we naturally feel pity,but compassion is not pity.
No.
You can pity somebody andnot do anything about it.
Yeah.
Just feel bad for them.
Yeah.
I mean, how many people scrollon on Instagram or TikTok
and they see all these sadvideos and you're like, oh.
Or like you, the SarahMcLaughlin in the arms of an
(15:47):
angel and you see all the,the dogs that are dying and
you just scroll right past it.
You feel bad forlike five minutes.
Yeah, that's true.
You scroll past anddo nothing about it.
Daniel (15:56):
Ex. Exactly.
You just don't care.
What would Jesus, doyou care for a while?
Yeah.
Kayley (16:00):
Jesus would start a foundation and he would
go knock on door to doorcollecting money for it.
Daniel (16:06):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kayley (16:07):
And make sure that every dog never went hungry again.
Daniel (16:10):
Exactly.
That's what he would.
Kayley (16:12):
And if he can do that for a dog, how much more
would he be doing it for thepeople made in his image?
Yeah.
For his children, forhis flock, for his sheep.
Daniel (16:20):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's, that's,that's the difference.
And also we shouldbe more like Jesus.
Uh, so maybe weshould act more Yeah.
On what we're feelingwhen it comes to
compassion, that's good.
Well, what you were justsaying about trying your
best to do what Jesus wants.
Kayley (16:37):
Yeah.
Daniel (16:37):
That's of course a good thing.
Mm-hmm.
But also if you're focusingtoo much about acts.
Mm. that can be a trap for you.
Yeah.
That's what I felt.
Yeah.
And that's what I, why I, fora while I didn't feel like I
was worthy Mm. To actually becalled a Christian anymore.
Kayley (16:58):
Really?
Daniel (16:58):
Yeah.
Because of that,there, there are rules.
Mm-hmm.
And you follow them.
Mm-hmm.
Try to follow them.
Mm-hmm.
And then, uh.
The adversary, isthat what it called?
Kayley (17:07):
Yeah.
The adversary.
Daniel (17:08):
Yep.
Uh, he's always remindingyou of everything that
you've done wrong.
Yeah.
And he's saying, dothat, do that, do that.
And when you do it, he'slike, why did you do that?
Oof.
Yeah.
And also, if that's your focuson never do anything wrong.
Yeah.
And you use your hand tolike make your life worthy.
Yeah.
Then you can't let, you shouldrather let Jesus use his hand
(17:31):
to make you worthy, becauseas soon as you use your hand.
Kayley (17:34):
You.
You're gonna fail.
Daniel (17:35):
You're gonna fail.
Kayley (17:35):
It's not gonna look good.
Daniel (17:36):
And that's what the adversary wants you to do.
Kayley (17:38):
It's gonna be the difference between like
a five-year-old making adrawing and Picasso, or like,
yeah, like Leonardo da Vincimaking a painting.
That's how differenceit is between you trying
to make yourself worthyand Jesus making you.
Daniel (17:50):
Yeah, it, it won't even be a picture.
Kayley (17:52):
It won't even be, it's just like scribble,
Daniel (17:54):
it's like painting without a brush, you know?
Yeah.
Kayley (17:57):
Okay.
So when did that change for you?
When did you.
Uh, when did you go from, oh,I'm not even worthy to be a
Christian because of all myissues, to realizing that it was
the adversary spreading lies.
Daniel (18:10):
It, to be totally, uh, totally honest.
It was actually after I metyou and, uh, legacy the church.
Mm. And Christianpeople in the US.
I'm from Norway and where,uh, where I'm from, I'm
not saying that the peoplethere are judgemental.
Mm-hmm.
But I think I was Mm.
And I actually judgedother people too.
(18:32):
Mm. and myself and I feltlike you can't do that.
Uh, are you really a Christian?
You can't do that, orthis or that, or whatever.
And when I came to the US therewas, I, I, I didn't feel the
same judgmental people that Imet back in Norway, but later
(18:53):
I understood that it, it mightnot be the people that I,
that, that are in my country.
It was me.
Kayley (19:00):
Wow.
Daniel (19:00):
I was the one that judging.
But when I came here, Isaw that, uh, the people
are more open-minded.
Yeah.
So they, I felt likeI could actually say
that I'm a Christian.
I was allowed to saythat I'm a Christian.
Wow.
And when you're allowed tosay that you're a Christian,
that's what you wanna do.
Because if you always tellpeople that what you're doing
right now is wrong, theydon't care about anything,
(19:20):
they will just drop it all.
Kayley (19:22):
So is it more so like the way you were
living your life in Norway?
Yeah.
And then to say youwere a Christian that
felt hypocritical?
Daniel (19:31):
Exactly.
Okay.
But also because I wouldn'tsay that I could say
that I was a Christianthe way I lived my life.
Kayley (19:37):
Yeah,
Daniel (19:39):
but that was be because of what people told me early on.
So that's what I'm saying.
If I tell you thatyour Christian life
right now is not enough Mm.
Then why should you pray?
Why should you readthe Bible anymore?
Why should you doanything at all?
Kayley (19:55):
Where did that start for you?
Daniel (19:57):
I think it started with that I wasn't good enough.
Like, um,
Kayley (20:00):
like you weren't good enough.
Like who, who told you thatyou weren't good enough?
Who told you that youwere a bad Christian?
Daniel (20:06):
Actually nobody did, I think,
Kayley (20:08):
did the devil?
Daniel (20:09):
That's, yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
I, I'm not blaming thepeople in Norway or at all.
Uh, and also there's a lotof really nice churches over
there, and I think, I don'tthink it was the people there.
I think maybe it was myselfthat judged myself so bad
because I looked at theother people in the church
and they were so good.
(20:30):
Okay.
And I felt like Icouldn't reach them.
Mm.
and also, uh,there are a lot of.
I feel a lot of judgmentalthings going on in the church.
Mm-hmm.
I'm, I'm, I'm trying to weighwhat I'm saying right now.
Kayley (20:44):
Yeah.
You're trying to like, okay.
You don't wanna ruffleany feathers, I get it.
Daniel (20:47):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kayley (20:47):
Okay, so let me, let me take it back to
compassion real quick.
'cause I did ask youbefore, where is it hard
for you to show compassion?
And I'm wondering now ifthe hardest person to show
compassion for was yourself.
Daniel (21:01):
Yeah, probably.
That's might be oneof my biggest issues.
Yeah.
Kayley (21:07):
Okay.
Yeah.
So you're, it's easy toshow compassion for other
people more so easy to showcompassion that's from the
flesh, not from the Holy Spirit.
Mm-hmm.
If you're, I mean,'cause I'm the same way.
I will enable, actually I havea story about enabling somebody.
I remember, gosh, I was, I wasplaying downtown Nashville a lot
and I had this pretty regulargig and I also had a buddy of
(21:30):
mine who was really talented.
And I thought to myself,you know, he really
needs some money.
Why don't I justadd him to my gig?
They're not gonnapay me any more.
That means I'll end upearning less 'cause.
But I was willing to do that.
I was willing to bring him on,not get paid any more by the
venue, and just pay him outof what I was earning, just so
that he could earn some money.
(21:53):
And I did that for a longtime and he didn't have a car.
And I would even go pickhim up, take him to the
show, drop him back off.
I mean, I was just doingeverything for this guy,
giving him random moneytoo, just to help him.
'cause I believed in him.
I believed in him so much.
Yeah.
And I remember years later,I just heard this word and
it was, Jesus calls you togive to the poor and the
(22:16):
destitute, not to the lazy.
And I was like.
Wow.
I totally just enabled thisguy because it wasn't the
Holy Spirit nudging me to goout on a limb to help him.
It totally was just myown feelings, and the
truth of the matter isnothing I did changed him.
(22:38):
It didn't changethe way he lived.
It didn't change his process.
It didn't give him a leg up outof his circumstances, it just
kept him in his circumstances.
Yeah.
And that's when you know it'shuman compassion versus the
compassion of the Holy Spirit.
Because when I'm operating outof Jesus's compassion, there
actually is transformation.
Daniel (22:57):
Yeah.
Kayley (22:58):
I think that is a mark of knowing I'm not operating
in my flesh right now.
And you can see the fruit of it.
There's fruit whenyou're walking in the
compassion of Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
anyway, I just, I justthought of that so.
If you're out there listeningand you've enabled somebody,
I enabled them first.
Daniel (23:17):
Yeah.
But it's also what you'resaying right there is that, um,
for something to start grow,it has to be crushed first.
Uh, yeah.
Like a seed.
It has to go into the ground.
It has to be crushedbefore it can boom.
Yeah.
Kayley (23:29):
Wine.
Yeah.
Wine do you haveto crush the grape?
Daniel (23:31):
I think it's because it's, uh, preparing you for
what you're about to face.
Yeah.
As you have to go a lot oftimes through hard times.
Yeah.
Uh, before, uh, youreach the good times.
And, um, but the thing is,I think a lot of people like
to be in the crushed state.
Because then they're ina victimized position.
Kayley (23:53):
Yes.
Daniel (23:54):
That everybody want to help them.
Yes.
And they're saying,poor me, poor me.
Can you help me?
Yes.
And they will never getout of that phase until
you start making them grow.
Yeah.
you just keep them there,nothing will happen.
Kayley (24:06):
Well then, now here's another question.
Is compassion telling the truth?
Daniel (24:11):
Yeah.
Always.
Kayley (24:12):
Always?
Yeah.
Have you had todeliver the truth?
Before.
Daniel (24:17):
Yes.
And that's also, that's alsothe difference between Jesus and
me because what's, same idea,
Kayley (24:23):
the difference between Jesus and me,
that's a good song title.
Nobody take that.
We're gonna write that.
Me and Dan are gonna write that.
Daniel (24:28):
But as we're speaking about compassion right now,
the word actually revealsitself more and more.
And also what I saidearlier on is that I
have so much compassion.
Maybe I don't.
Maybe I just want to makepeople like me better.
Oof.
Yeah.
I think that's mightbe the thing about me.
Yeah.
Because it's hardto tell the truth.
(24:50):
Mm.
Because then theywon't like me anymore.
Mm.
That's not compassion
Kayley (24:54):
and that's not Jesus.
Daniel (24:55):
Exactly.
That's me.
Kayley (24:57):
But it's so true.
We, we do that.
I so.
Switching gears a little bit.
Um, I ended up doing adeliverance session recently and
before people like hang up thephone or turn this podcast off.
I'm gonna explain thedeliverance session because
I think it's something thatwe all should kind of be
(25:19):
partaking in if we're aChristian walking with the Lord.
And it starts withthe Lord's Prayer.
It's like, um, uh.
What's the beginningof the Lord's Prayer?
Why am I blanking on it?
Oh, father, who art in heavenfather who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
The kingdom come, thywill be done on earth
as it is in heaven.
Give us a day our daily breadand forgive us our debts
(25:39):
as we forgive our debtors.
Lead us not into temptation,but deliver us from evil.
Mm-hmm.
And I keep thinkingabout the Lord's Prayer.
When the disciples came to Jesusand said, teach us how to pray,
he said, deliver us from evil.
And so if we'refollowing the Lord.
And we're walking with him,we're following his ways,
and he's telling us to dailypray to deliver us from evil.
(26:02):
Then there's something to that,and I think about deliverance,
similar to going to the doctor.
So as humans, we aresoul, body and spirit.
We've got our bodies.
We go to the doctors for ourbodies, for our souls, which
is our mind will and emotions.
We go see psychiatrists,we go see therapists.
We do all of that, butare we really doing
(26:23):
anything for our spirit?
Mm-hmm.
If you're, if you're afaithful believer, you know
that we don't fight againstflesh and blood, but the
spirits and principalitiesof the unseen realm.
Yeah.
So what are we doing forour spiritual health,
um, beyond prayer?
And maybe, are wepraying the right way?
Yeah, because I think weshould be, I mean the,
(26:44):
Jesus gave us power in hisdeath and resurrection.
We have power to vanquish the,the, the schemes of the devil
just in rebuking and saying, anddecreeing and declaring and um,
anyway, so in this deliverancesession, which is basically
what that is, you, I, I wentin and you do a lot of like
breaking of agreements of like,yes, I agreed with the enemy
(27:08):
that I am always a problem.
I made that agreement.
My ex-husband told me Iwas always the problem.
The next roommate Ihad after that always
said I was the problem.
So clearly I'm the problem,but that was totally in
agreement with the enemy.
And so you have to go andyou have to break that off.
And in this specificdeliverance session.
(27:29):
The team that I was with,they were interceding for me.
They were also praying toHoly Spirit praying with
Holy Spirit on my behalf.
And they asked me, they said,Kayley, will you ask Jesus
what your opposition isin this scenario that
you need breakthrough in?
I said, okay.
So I asked the Lord,what's my opposition?
And he said, kindness.
(27:50):
I'm like, okay, make thatmake sense because kindness
is a fruit of the spirit.
So.
Why would kindnessbe my opposition?
Mm-hmm.
And then I realized throughour discussion and the the
session itself, I was broughtback to a memory of my mother
where she taught me to "kill'em with kindness", which I
(28:13):
don't know if you have a phraselike that in Norway, but here
Daniel (28:16):
I don't think so.
Kayley (28:17):
Yeah.
It just means like.
If someone has a hardershell or if someone, if
someone is mean, you break'em down with kindness.
Yeah.
You, you, you show kindness toget them to be like pliable and
malleable and happy or whatever.
And my mom taught me that ata young age, and I realized
my whole life I've beenwalking with this concept
of kill him with kindness.
(28:38):
And I had to learnin that session.
I, I did learn that I havebeen operating my whole life
in kindness from the flesh.
Versus the Lord's version ofkindness, because God has a
boundary line for his kindness.
And if you cross outta thatboundary line for his kindness,
that's when you start usingkindness to manipulate,
(28:59):
control, enable, um, protectyourself, seek validation.
And I was using kindnessfor all of those things.
So no wonder I wasexhausted and tired.
Anyway, this is a long spielof me talking about this
deliverance leading to kindness.
But it, to me, I hear thesame thing with compassion.
Because if you operateoutside of God's depiction
(29:23):
and definition of compassion,you will find yourself showing
compassion, an earthly versionof compassion that doesn't
have any action behind it, thatis laced with pity and that
ha gleans no transformation.
And I just think that he wants,he wants more for his disciples.
He wants us to really know whatit means to be Jesus to the
(29:45):
crowd that needs a shepherd.
Daniel (29:47):
Absolutely.
I think, uh, we have a sayingin Norway and it's called
doing someone a bear favor.
Not bear, drink bear,but bear the animal.
Kayley (29:58):
Like bear, like BEAR.
Daniel (30:00):
Yes.
Kayley (30:02):
Doing someone a bear favor.
Daniel (30:04):
Exactly.
Okay.
Kayley (30:04):
Explain
Daniel (30:05):
that means that.
I have kids, two kids.
Mm-hmm.
if I let them stayup all night mm-hmm.
Watching movies.
Mm-hmm.
and they were supposedto go to school mm-hmm.
Seven o'clock in the morning.
Mm-hmm.
They will love me because I'mthe best dad ever when I let
them watch the movies, but inthe long run, it will hurt them.
(30:26):
So that's what's it meansto do somebody a bare favor.
Kayley (30:29):
So it's kind of like a bad favor.
Daniel (30:31):
It's a bad favor, yeah.
It's a you, they love youbecause you're letting
them do what they wannado then and there.
Yeah.
And, and maybe that's,if you, if you draw that
into a Christian, uh,thought, What about heaven?
What about life after death?
What about Jesus?
Stuff like that.
Mm-hmm.
And I tell everybody thatyou don't need Jesus because
(30:52):
I want them to like me.
Mm. Or I want them to feellike they're good enough.
Mm-hmm.
So they can walk outof there feeling good.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Instead of saying,you're actually a sinner.
Mm-hmm.
You, you, you're notdeserving heaven.
Mm-hmm.
But because of God and becausewhat Jesus did on the cross.
Mm. You do.
Yeah.
That's harder to say.
Kayley (31:11):
It's, it's hard to deliver the gospel.
It is, yeah.
I mean, there are peoplethat have told me like,
Kayley, you're so bold.
You're so brave for talkingabout Jesus or whatever.
I'm like, you don't understand.
Like, yeah, I usedto be terrified of
talking about faith.
One, I could not even tellyou what the gospel was,
first of all, so I had nobusiness talking about it,
(31:33):
but I did believe in it.
Yeah.
And, and secondly, I didn'tknow the compassion of God.
No.
Like this whole podcast, liketalking about Jesus, talking
about the ways in which youcan live a rich and fulfilling
life through him because that'shis will and desire for you.
Like it would be cruel for meto withhold some of the roadmap.
(31:53):
Yeah.
It would be, it would becruel for me to withhold
some of the testimony.
Mm-hmm.
Because it does lead totransformation in my, in my
opinion and belief and, andjust the outcome of people
that have watched thispodcast and reached out to me.
And I, I just thinklike I walked into a new
understanding of the lovethat Jesus has and I want
(32:14):
everybody to know what it is.
Daniel (32:16):
Yes.
And that's what convinced meto believe that I was allowed,
I have to say, allowed to becalled a Christian because I
felt like I couldn't do that.
And, um.
The way I look atJesus now Yeah.
Compared to before.
Yeah.
I, I felt like he wasthis judgmental man
sitting on a, a big guy.
(32:37):
Yeah.
And just, only watchedthe bad things I did.
Mm. And uh, the more Iunderstand that what Jesus did
on the cross for me is enough.
Mm-hmm.
it changed the whole thing.
And I think the devilwants you to believe that
you're not good enough.
Yeah.
And that you feel.
You feel a better person tosay that I'm not a Christian.
(32:59):
Yeah.
Because I do so,so many bad things.
Mm. Because you feel likethat's how it's supposed to be.
Kayley (33:07):
Like you're like, you deserve that.
So it Yeah.
But it doesn't make youfeel better in the end.
It just makes youfeel worthless.
Daniel (33:12):
Yeah.
But it, you feel likethat's, I felt like I was
being more honest to notsay that I was a Christian.
Okay.
I thought that was honesty.
Kayley (33:21):
So when did it change and how did it, and
how did it change and whatdoes it look like now?
Daniel (33:25):
It took a while.
Kayley (33:26):
Okay.
Daniel (33:26):
It was a, a long road and, um, now I feel
like I'm not focusing anymoreon things I'm doing wrong.
Okay.
I'm trying to do the best Ican, but when you do that,
when you're trying to dostuff for Jesus and thinking
about, I belong to Jesus.
Yeah.
You want to do good things.
Yeah.
If you believe that you'renot belong to Jesus Christ,
(33:49):
you don't care anymore.
Mm-hmm.
And that's the, that's, uh,the danger in, uh, how you
tell people about the gospel.
Yeah.
Because, it's so,it's like my daddy.
My daddy is a pastor, andhe says it's so easy that
it takes a human beingto make it difficult.
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kayley (34:08):
That's pretty good.
But I think also, you know, inscripture it says, think on what
is good, what is, um, beautiful,what is worthy of praise.
Mm-hmm.
Think on these things.
Yeah.
And how often doesthe enemy wanna get us
thinking on the opposite?
Exactly.
And I think that's where we,we end up forfeiting the gift.
Yeah.
(34:29):
Because what you were doingin focusing on all the
ways that you are not good.
Yeah.
And a bad Christian or whatever.
You forfeited God'slove in your life.
You forfeited God's favor.
You forfeited God's freedom thathe had for you, his peace, his
joy, simply because your focuswas on all the ways in which
you were terrible and not theways in which God redeemed you.
(34:51):
Yeah, and it doesn't meanthat, I mean, I'm still a worm.
Like I remember, I rememberwhen I was going through it,
I was living on my knees.
And that, that was the onlyway I could get through my day.
I just, I needed Jesusso bad every day I was
living on my knees, and itwas in that season that I
learned I was just a worm.
Mm-hmm.
I was such a worm andI needed him so bad.
(35:15):
Yeah.
And it was pain that brought methere, and it was there that I
learned reliance on the Lord.
And now I learned how to relyon him in the good ways too,
like in the good seasons duringthe, the blessed seasons,
during seasons of harvest.
Oh.
Because I learned how to servehim and, and lean on him in
the, in the hard, barren times.
Daniel (35:34):
Yeah.
The thing is, um, when Iwent through that phase
for many years, it's hardfor you to believe that
Jesus actually loves you.
And that's the thing thatI was struggling with.
Yeah.
And I've kind ofmade peace with that.
Okay.
Because I wasn't good enoughand I, my thoughts were
somewhere else because Ifelt like, why, why do I even
(35:55):
think about Jesus at all?
Yeah.
And then his way,how do you say that?
It's not our ways.
Kayley (36:02):
Yeah.
His ways are not our our ways.
Daniel (36:03):
So everything I did, it led me back to Jesus somehow.
Mm-hmm.
And, craziest thing Iever experienced was, I
was thinking about this.
Am I really good enough, Am I?
I wanted to be, and I was on myway back and I was the prodigal
son on his way back to thehouse, but I wasn't there yet.
Okay.
I was going there and,uh, we wrote the song,
(36:24):
the, the Old Church.
Kayley (36:26):
Yes.
Daniel (36:27):
And I sang that at 3rd And Lindsley and when I
came back to Norway, uh, mywife, she had, uh, videotaped
the whole thing on her phone.
Mm-hmm.
And I was, uh, puttingsubtitles, uh, in
English on the song.
Okay.
I was going to put it out there.
And the whole time I wasthinking, does Jesus loves me?
(36:48):
Am I good enough?
And the crazy thing, Istill have that tape.
The crazy thing is thatwhen the guitar player,
I don't know his name.
Uh, there were a couple guitarplayers on that session.
Yeah.
The one that played, uh,was it Gideon Friend?
We have in Jesus?
Oh, I don't knowwhich one did that.
No.
Okay.
Whatever.
One of the guitar players, oneof the guitar players, yeah.
When he played that, the introon the song, suddenly the
(37:12):
subtitles came on, but thereare no words right there.
So I'm not starting singingbefore maybe 10 seconds later.
Wow.
And it says, do, do, do.
I do, do do, love, do, do you.
So wait.
Somebody said, I love youwhen standing on that stage.
(37:34):
And I have goosebumps right now.
And it was like, Icouldn't believe that
was actually happened.
So I took it back and Ihave a studio back home.
So I did the equalizerand tried to see
Kayley (37:45):
somebody said it on a mic or something.
Daniel (37:47):
Yeah.
And there's dead silence.
It's only the guitar.
Kayley (37:50):
It's just the guitar.
Daniel (37:50):
Yeah.
And that's before Ising a Christian song
about my faith and all.
And it was, I,
Kayley (37:55):
and this was at my show.
Yeah.
Last October.
Daniel (37:57):
Yeah.
And it said, I love you.
And from that time I was like,yeah, he actually loves me.
So I, I, I'm allowed tosay that I'm a Christian.
Kayley (38:09):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And we'd known eachother for a little bit.
Yeah.
By that point.
And you never told methat you struggled with
feeling God's love for you.
Daniel (38:18):
No.
Kayley (38:19):
Wow.
Oh, that's so good.
He's so good.
Yeah.
He's a miracle workerand he also knows the
cries of our heart.
He knows where we struggleand he comes in in
miraculous ways that don'tmake sense to just earth.
Daniel (38:37):
Yeah.
Kayley (38:37):
And he comes in, he just reveals his love.
Daniel (38:40):
Yes.
It's amazing.
And,
Kayley (38:41):
and it changed you.
Daniel (38:43):
It changed me.
It did.
Kayley (38:43):
It changed you.
Yeah.
That was his compassion.
I feel for you, Daniel.
I feel for you that youdon't think I love you.
I need to tell you in a reallybeautiful, miraculous way.
Yeah.
And now you get changed.
Mm-hmm.
So how is it in Norway now?
Are you declaring that you'rea Christian over there?
Daniel (39:02):
Yeah.
I, I need to be bolder.
Okay.
But, uh, we say Norway, weprobably do that here too.
We say Saved.
I'm saved.
Mm-hmm.
And that's another thingto say that I'm saved.
Mm-hmm.
And to say that I'm aChristian in Norway.
Kayley (39:16):
Really?
Yeah.
Why is it different?
Daniel (39:18):
if you say you're a Christian,
that's more the religion.
Christian.
Okay.
That you believe in God, butyou don't have a personal
relationship with God.
Kayley (39:25):
Okay.
Daniel (39:26):
So when you say you saved, that's say, oh, really?
So that's another level kind of,
Kayley (39:34):
this is so fascinating to me.
I know.
Daniel (39:36):
So Christian and saved are the same thing,
but at the same timeit's not the same thing.
Kayley (39:42):
Well, it's, you know, there's a lot of Christians,
there's a, you know, there'sa lot of unbelievers that
I've encountered thathave no knowledge that
they need to be saved.
Yeah.
I think in the westernworld, we do everything
we need for ourselves.
Like we have our basic needsmet, food, shelter, clothing.
We're not hungry for that.
(40:03):
Mm-hmm.
And we become our own God.
I mean, we are in the worldview.
The worldview of if youwant something, you go
out and you go get it.
Yeah.
And when you operate in that wayand everything you acquire was
through your own strength, will.
Yeah.
Et cetera, then youjust don't need a God.
Mm-hmm.
That's how a lot of peopleoperate and therefore
(40:23):
you are your own God.
Yeah.
I was my own God for a longtime, even I even claimed
Jesus and I was my own God,and it's because I didn't
submit my ways to the Lord.
Mm-hmm.
And the Bible says like, submitall your ways into the Lord and
he will make your path straight.
My paths were crooked as hell.
You know, like they were,they were, they were
not good looking paths.
(40:45):
Yeah.
And I'm sitting herethinking, oh, look at me.
I can do all things.
And then, yeah, hereI am needing to give
my life to the Lord.
And I knew I neededsaving from myself.
Yeah.
But most people don't thinkthey need to be saved.
Daniel (40:59):
I know,
Kayley (41:00):
So the, that even that concept even
of Oh, you got saved.
What did you get saved from?
Geez.
Were you likeexactly in the ditch?
No, I was literally my own God.
That's what happened.
Daniel (41:10):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying to people because a lot
of people saying, oh, you thinkyou're so much better than me?
Because you're going toheaven and you're saved.
I was like, no,I'm worse than you.
I need Jesus.
You think you can getthere by yourself, so yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's hard.
We need Jesus to get there.
So, yeah,
Kayley (41:25):
there's a scripture in Habakkuk, which is one
of the prophets in the, inthe Old Testament, and, uh,
it says, it's talking, Ithink about the Babylonians
with their fierce chariotsand their mighty horses.
And he said, the Biblesaid they are so, uh, no.
What does it say?
Uh, they are filled withguilt because their own
(41:46):
strength is their God.
Yeah.
And that's so people.
Mm-hmm.
That's just pe That's human.
That's humanity.
Daniel (41:53):
It is.
Kayley (41:55):
This is why there's burnout.
This is why they,we need therapy.
Daniel (42:00):
Yeah, but it's true.
Kayley (42:00):
This, this is why we need a shepherd.
This is why we need thecompassion of Jesus.
Daniel (42:04):
Exactly.
These sheeps would justwander away because
they're really stupid.
Kayley (42:10):
They're so stupid.
Daniel (42:11):
They're so stupid, and so are we.
Yeah.
At least I am.
I'm so stupid.
But if, yeah.
So I'm You need a shepherd.
Human beings.
You need a shepherd.
You, you wake up inthe morning like Jesus.
Say, we all sin.
Yeah.
Why do we do that?
Kayley (42:28):
Why do we sin?
Daniel (42:28):
Yeah.
It's because we're sheeps.
Kayley (42:30):
We're sheeps.
Sheeps.
Yeah.
Jeeps,
Daniel (42:32):
sheep, Jeeps, Jeeps.
We're Jeeps.
Yeah.
So because we're stupid andwe're just, you're stupid.
Yeah.
We, we need Jesus.
And.
To understand thatwe need Jesus.
And the most important thingthat I understood after a while
is that he loved us first.
He wants us to come to him.
(42:52):
Yeah.
It's not like I hope Jesus,that I'm good enough right
now that I can come to you.
He, that's what he wants.
Yeah.
And he, he loves us first.
That's why we love him.
Yeah.
And he died on the crossbecause that he wants us.
And to understand thatinstead of thinking that
no, he don't, he doesn'twant me because I'm so bad.
I'm doing so many things wrong.
(43:13):
Uh, you're justfooling yourself and
Kayley (43:15):
Well, that's the enemy.
Daniel (43:16):
That's the enemy.
Kayley (43:17):
It's the enemy.
I, I like to say this a lot.
Is the voice in yourhead building you up,
or is it burying you?
Yeah,because God's voice in your
life will never, ever bury you.
It will always build you.
Yeah.
AndI wish I would've known that.
Years ago because it would'vesaved me from a lot of
self-inflicted torture.
Yeah, that's good.
Where I'm like, I'm the worstof, because I, you know, just
(43:41):
as I was performing beforeGod was the Lord of my life.
I then began performing whenhe was the Lord of my life.
I'm like, I have to performthis way, and this way, and
this way in faith, in orderfor God to give me favor.
Mm-hmm.
But no, he like givesme these good gifts.
And then I'm like,wait, wait, wait.
I don't deserve this.
Like, look at how Iwas behaving this week.
Like what are youyou're providing for me?
(44:03):
Oh my gosh, I didn'teven deserve this.
Yeah.
And he's like, exactly.
Daniel (44:06):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kayley (44:07):
Exactly.
And then what doesthat make me wanna do?
It makes me want to obey him.
Yeah.
It makes me want to servehim and love him and seek
him and be like, okay, Lord.
Like Wow, you really, man,you paid my bills this week.
Um.
What, how can I, how canI, how can I love you?
Mm-hmm.
How can I serve you?
Who, who, who do youwant me to minister to?
(44:28):
What, what can I dofor your kingdom?
Yeah.
And most of the time hejust says, ah, why don't
you just hang out with me?
Daniel (44:33):
That's what he wants.
Kayley (44:34):
Why don't you just spend time with me?
Daniel (44:35):
And also when you talk to him about compassion,
I think it's David, in oneof those psalms, he says,
if I make my bed in hell yeah.
You are there.
Yeah.
So instead of thinking ofthat, I'm not good enough.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, he will be there always.
And that's compassion.
(44:55):
the compassion fromJesus, not ours.
Kayley (44:58):
I think it's also showing a low view of God.
Mm-hmm.
To say, oh, look how bad I am.
Look at how worthless I am.
Like he doesn't wanna save meor he doesn't need to save me.
You're also in away saying he can't.
Exactly.
He can't save me.
I am just this wor, I'm likethis terrible of a person.
Mm-hmm.
And that is establishing,establishing a low view
(45:20):
of God and who he is.
And I had a friend justliterally last night talk about
a prayer that she, she has.
She's like, ah, I really,you know, wish the Lord
would do this, but I don'twanna ask him 'cause it's
not that big of a deal.
And you know, he's gotbigger fish to fry.
And I'm like.
My friend, my dear, my sister.
That's a low view of God.
Daniel (45:41):
Yeah, it is.
Kayley (45:41):
Don't you think he cares about the big things
and the small things?
Yeah.
You're his daughter.
I said, imagine ifyou had a child.
And, and, and actuallyit was about like, um,
I think a toothache.
It was a, she had atoothache and she's like,
I gotta go to the dentistand I just want this.
I've never had atoothache before.
I've never had a cavity before.
And I just, I don't, Ijust don't wanna bother
(46:02):
the Lord with a tooth.
I said, can you imagineif you had a child.
Who had a toothache and theydidn't come to you and say,
mom, I have a toothache.
Mm-hmm.
I need help.
Yeah.
She's like, I wouldtake him outside back
and I would slap him.
Like, I'd be mad youdidn't tell me about this.
Exactly.
I said, that's how theLord feels when we don't
bring our issues to him.
Yeah.
He's the great healer.
(46:23):
He's the great, uh,he's the medicine man.
Yeah.
Like he wants to comein and make whole what
is un whole mm-hmm.
Heal.
What is unhealed?
Restore what is torn down.
Yeah.
Build up what is broken down.
That's who he is, that'swhat he wants to do.
And so if we can have compassionfor ourselves and the compassion
(46:44):
of the Holy Spirit thatactually changes us mm-hmm.
And changes our environment,then we will go to him and
ask for the restoration, askfor the healing, ask for him
to be Lord over everything.
Daniel (46:56):
Yes.
And I believe that, uh,Jesus is God made flesh.
Mm. He came to earth.
Yeah.
So he's been throughall those things.
Yes.
I don't know if heever had toothache.
Kayley (47:09):
He might have had a toothache
Daniel (47:10):
maybe.
But he, he knows howto feel, to be sad.
Yeah.
To be angry.
To cry.
Yeah.
To feel, uh, woundedin, in any way.
Yeah.
To feel betrayal.
Yeah.
He felt all that.
Yeah.
So he can relate.
So when we say, dear Jesus,um, I'm really sad today.
(47:30):
Mm. This is a,this is a hard one.
This is the worst day I ever had
Kayley (47:33):
in my life.
Yeah.
Daniel (47:34):
Yeah.
He, he can relate towhatever feeling we have,
Kayley (47:37):
He can relate to it,
Daniel (47:38):
and that's what I think is a personal
relationship with God.
Yeah.
Because if he's my dad,I would've called on
my dad and said, do youhave some painkillers
for my tooth right now?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, I think that'sthe personal relationship
God wants us to have.
Mm-hmm.
Not to put him.
He, he's the, he, he'sthe king of kings.
(47:59):
That's not what I'm saying.
But he's also,
Kayley (48:01):
he is, but he is, he is the lion and the lamb.
Daniel (48:04):
Exactly.
Kayley (48:04):
And it's, it's so beautiful when we think about
that because it, it says, itsays like, pick up your cross.
But it's like there, Ithink in scripture it
talks about the fellowshipof Christ's sufferings.
Mm-hmm.
And I think when we are grieved.
We're in fellowship with Jesus.
Yeah.
Because he also too grieved.
Mm-hmm.
And how beautiful isit to relate to Jesus?
(48:27):
It's, it puts himin the room with us.
Yeah.
It, it takes down this dividingwall of separation of like,
oh, he doesn't understand me.
He doesn't get me.
This is why I am a worthlesspiece of, you know, sack
of rice or whatever.
Yeah.
And, um, he doesn't wannapay any attention to me when
it's like he was that person.
Yeah.
He, he wanted.
He, he, and then the compassionhe had for that crowd, I keep
(48:50):
going back to that crowd.
Mm-hmm.
He saw them and with compassion,the twisting up of his insides.
Yeah.
Like, that's crazy.
To me, that's what he felt whenhe had compassion, the twisting
and wrenching of his insides.
That's how much grief he had.
Mm-hmm.
For those people thatdidn't have a shepherd
that were being led astray,
Daniel (49:10):
I think a lot of times about, the
woman, that were caught.
Kayley (49:14):
In in adultery.
Daniel (49:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
the, the cool thing thatI've been thinking about
is that Jesus saying toall the Pharisees and all
the people there that you,without stone, you without
sin, cast the first stone.
Yeah.
And then it kneels down andhe writes something in sand.
Kayley (49:30):
He writes in the sand.
Yeah.
Nobody knows what he said.
Daniel (49:32):
Nobody knows.
Kayley (49:32):
What do you think he said?
Um.
That Greek word for compassionthat I can't pronounce.
Daniel (49:38):
That's what he said.
But what I'm thinkingabout, he takes his finger.
Yeah.
And he writes, so I wasthinking, did he write
the 10 Commandments?
Because the other timesomebody writes something
with his finger, it's God onthe mountain when he gives
them the 10 Commandments.
So what if you did that?
Because the pharisee,they they knew that.
Kayley (49:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, interesting.
Daniel (49:59):
You know, but the coolest thing is, jesus is
standing there in front ofthem perfect God in flesh.
Yeah.
He's maybe the one thatwrote the rules for that
woman that was there.
Mm. He was the one thathad written all the laws.
Yeah.
And then he said, he askedher, does any of these
people, um, judge you?
(50:20):
Because they all left.
Yeah.
And nobody does.
And neither do I.
Kayley (50:24):
Neither do I.
Daniel (50:25):
What he say?
C Condemn you.
Kayley (50:26):
Condemn you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel (50:27):
He could do that.
He, he could condemn her.
Kayley (50:30):
But he didn't come to the world to condemn.
Exactly.
He came to the world to save
Daniel (50:33):
and he's the one that wrote the, the rules.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he came to save and restore.
Yeah.
And give life,
Kayley (50:41):
uh, He's a God of mercy.
Daniel (50:43):
Yeah.
And also another thing that Iwas thinking about when you was
talking about the God's Prayer.
That
Kayley (50:48):
the what?
Daniel (50:49):
The, the God's Prayer.
No, what?
Kayley (50:51):
Oh, the Lord's Prayer.
Daniel (50:52):
Yeah.
The Lord's Prayer.
Yeah.
So when you are not having the.
Relationship with God anymore.
Yeah.
That you don'tthink you deserve.
Kayley (51:00):
Okay.
Daniel (51:01):
the praying after a while will stop.
Mm. So you are leaning onthings you heard before
because you have no context,your connection with the Lord
Kayley (51:12):
Yeah.
Okay.
Daniel (51:13):
So one of the coolest things I think in
the Lord's Prayer is giveus today the daily bread.
Yes.
Give us our daily bread.
Kayley (51:19):
Yes.
Daniel (51:20):
Every single day.
Yeah.
Because when Isaac and Abraham,when Abraham was about to
sacrifice Isaac mm-hmm.
He was, he, he, he wasgiven the word mm-hmm.
And was going to do that.
But then he didn't hearabout the daily word.
He didn't, he needed onemore word to set him free.
Mm.
So that's what we need.
We need the dailybread every day.
Yeah.
To know what to do every day.
Kayley (51:40):
Yeah.
For man does not live bybread alone, but every
word from the mouth of God.
Exactly.
Ugh.
This is so good.
Yeah.
Well, I think we'rerunning outta time.
Daniel (51:48):
Absolutely.
Yep.
Kayley (51:48):
But I'm just so glad that I was able to catch you
while you were stateside andI can't wait to go back to
Norway and to see all thepeople and play more music.
Yeah.
Again, 'cause I knowwe're gonna do that again
this, this Christmas.
Um.
But anyway, y'all, thankyou so much for listening,
tuning into Bible Bish Today.
I hope that something that weha had said, something that
we've said has stirred in yourchest, whether it was showing
(52:11):
your own version of compassionversus Holy Spirit's, or
Jesus's version of compassion.
I hope you're not enablingpeople like we have, and I
hope that you also understandthat God loves you so much and
that his compassion is for you.
There's a twisting upof his insides for you
if you are a led astray.
He wants you in his flock.
(52:33):
He wants you to have himas your shepherd because
he will always restore you.
He will help youwhen you're downcast.
He will lift you up.
in his glory, he will exalt you.
And so anyway, I just, welove you so much and make
sure you follow, subscribe,like do all the things.
Absolutely.
Share this podcast with someonethat you love and in the name
(52:53):
of love, go be blessed and havea wonderful rest of your day.
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