Becky Pomerleau - Chief Audit Executive and Heart Transplant Recipient

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In this podcast episode, Becky Pomerleau shares her incredible journey from a career-driven CPA to a heart transplant recipient, her renewed faith in God, and how her life's challenges have reshaped her approach to biblical leadership, work-life balance, and living as a daughter of God.

Becky's LinkedIn page
Becky's website
Five Dysfunctions of a Team book
Sacredness of Secular Work book
Sacred Work book

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Episode Transcript

Yeti Nano (00:01):
Welcome to the biblical leadership at work
podcast.
I am your host, Jason watered.
On this month's episode, we willmeet Becky Pomerleau, lawyer,
chief audit, executive CPAChrist follower.
And heart transplant recipient.
Listen in as Becky discusses herdramatic story, leading up to
her need for a heart transplant.

Becky (00:23):
I had what I call a soul moment where God literally
Knocked me off of my feet.
I would say that I was aChristian who lived my life with
God, but maybe not necessarilyfor God.
so when I needed something fromGod, that's what I did.
predominantly what I would prayabout, and so what happened is
my husband and I, were inColorado celebrating our five

(00:44):
year wedding anniversary.
and I had It's a series of heartattacks, not knowing that that's
what was happening.

Yeti Nano (00:49):
Listen in as Becky talks about how this event.
Also changed her approach towork and her walk with God.

Becky (00:56):
because my husband and I don't have children, work was
life and our identity was reallytied up in our work.
and now post transplant, Ireally genuinely see my identity
as a daughter of God andintentionally and proactively
taking steps to live my life inthat way and to align how I

(01:16):
spend my time and my resourceswith those same values that I've
always had as a Believer.

Yeti Nano (01:22):
Becky offers a lot of wisdom on biblical leadership,
but for her, the foundation isthis.

Becky (01:28):
my core motto and what I also teach people who are for
the first time becoming peopleleaders is it's not about you.
And that's the foundationalelement, all of the other
leadership principles,

Yeti Nano (01:39):
Becky also talks specifically about the
importance of knowing eachmember of your team individually
and leading them in accordancewith their specific needs.

Becky (01:48):
And you really do have to tailor your leadership to each
person individually, which meansyou have to get to know your
employees, not just as workers,but also as human beings.

Yeti Nano (01:58):
So now let's meet Becky.

Jason (02:01):
Okay.
Becky Palmer low.
Thank you for coming on thepodcast today.
I cannot wait to share yourstory with our listeners.
So thank you sister for joiningme.

Becky (02:11):
It's great to be here.
Thanks,

Jason (02:12):
Yeah, so, um, like always, let's start with, uh, a
little bit about yourprofessional background,
educational background, what Godbrought you through and, and
where you're at, what you'redoing today.

Becky (02:24):
And so maybe I'll start.
Quickly with just where I amtoday, so I've recently taken
the role as Chief AuditExecutive at Lesley's.
Lesley's is a pool and spa carecompany, a retail company, so
just started that about a monthago, but that audit work has
been a theme throughout mycareer.
It's been a prettystraightforward path of got my

(02:46):
CPA and master's degree inaccounting from the University
of Missouri, grew up inMissouri.
Uh, and then worked in publicaccounting with Deloitte.
Then for a couple of differentcompanies and progressive
internal audit rules.
Um, before then, uh, moving outto Silicon Valley and, uh,
working for eBay and PayPalwhere I was in some first line

(03:06):
risk management rules, uh, aswell as.
Uh, the last, uh, few years washelping to uplift their Sarbanes
Oxley program as a part ofinternal audit.
Um, but one thing I think hasreally been a theme throughout
my career and what really getsme jazzed and going is, being an
agent of change and helping totransform processes, transform
organizations to really helpmove people from like point A to

(03:29):
point B with point B being abetter

Jason (03:31):
Yeah, a lot of people development and process
development.
You and I are both processoriented people in a different
function, but yeah, definitelyappreciate the controls and
continuous improvement and,Processes that, uh, that we do.
So you, and you just moved, youand your husband, right?
Just relocated.
So going through all that rightnow.

Becky (03:50):
We're still in the process of that as everyone
knows moving is stressful andwe're kind of doing it in
multiple stages.
So my husband is still back inSan Jose and, uh, we're, I'm
currently in Scottsdale,Arizona.

Jason (04:01):
Okay.
So, um, talk a little bit aboutyour, your faith background.
How did you come to know theLord?
What does that, uh, story looklike?

Becky (04:10):
And honestly, I don't really remember a time when I
didn't know Jesus as my Lord andSavior.
I grew up in a Christianhousehold with just wonderful,
amazing, loving parents.
And one of those householdswhere the only excuse for
missing church was either theroads were too icy, Uh, or it
was your summer vacation, um,not the entire summer, but I

(04:31):
mean, like, you know, actuallyon vacation.
And that was the only excuse tomiss church.
so I grew up in thatenvironment.
So when I went to college at theUniversity of Missouri, I was
also surrounded by Christians.
Um, I ran track there and crosscountry as well, and so that
great group of people, most ofthem were Christians, but one of
them, and who continues to beone of my best friends today,

(04:52):
was an atheist, and hechallenged me to say, think
through, Is your faith reallyyour faith or just because
that's what your parentsinstilled in you?
And I'm really grateful for thatbecause it did affirm for me
that yes, my faith in Jesus, theLord and Savior is my own faith.
Um, and not just because it'swhat I was brought up believing.

(05:16):
Um, and then, uh, fast forwardseveral years after college and
I had what I call a soul momentwhere God literally Knocked me
off of my feet.
I would say that I was aChristian who lived my life with
God, but maybe not necessarilyfor God.
Um, so when I needed somethingfrom God, you know, that's what

(05:37):
I did.
predominantly what I would prayabout, right?
Um, and so what happened is myhusband and I, at this point I
was now married, and my husbandand I were in Colorado
celebrating our five yearwedding anniversary.
It was around Thanksgiving time.
My parents had driven out fromMissouri to be with us as well,
and I had It's a series of heartattacks, not knowing that that's

(06:00):
what was happening.
So it was just this kind ofuncomfortable pressure in my
chest, something that just feltvery different than what I'm
accustomed to.
And then I did have tingling inmy left arm as well.
And when I first had thesymptoms on Black Friday, I just
took some aspirin, the symptomswent away within a few minutes
and it was like, Oh, that wasweird.

(06:21):
Then Sunday morning, two dayslater, I woke up from sleep with
those same symptoms, but insteadof alerting my family or
anything.
I went into the bathroom.
I shut the door.
I sat down on the edge of thebathtub and thought, you know
what?
I want to see if my strong,healthy body is going to resolve
these symptoms without needingto take aspirin because I don't
need the aspirin.
Then it's probably no big deal.

(06:43):
I'm not sure how long I wasactually in the bathroom, but it
was long enough that myhusband's like, Hey, why hasn't
she come to bed yet?
And so he kind of called out tome.
And of course my first thoughtis like, I'm going to have to
tell him that I'm having thesesymptoms and he's going to make
a big deal out of it.
Which is exactly what he did.
Thank the Lord that he did.
and so he kept saying, hey, ifyou're having chest pain, you

(07:04):
need to go to the emergencyroom.
We need to take you to theemergency room.
And I'm like, well, it's notreally painful.
I wouldn't describe it that way.
And I did take some more aspirinand the symptoms went away.
And we sat down together as afamily.
For breakfast and do a littledevotional at the end of
breakfast.
And that still small voice in myhead, which I refer to as the
Holy Spirit said, listen to yourhusband, go to the emergency

(07:27):
room.
so it went to the emergency roomand found that there were some
slight abnormalities in herheart.
And the test that they ran.
And so they sent us down toDenver cause we were up in the
mountains at the time.
They sent us down to Denver forfurther testing, which happened
the next day.
Um, and that's when kind of allhell broke loose and they found
the condition that I had, butthe condition also became

(07:48):
severely worse.
So I had what's calledspontaneous coronary artery
dissection, or SCAD, and yourcoronary arteries that supply
the oxygen to your heart musclestarted tearing from the inside
out, um, and that's what causedthe blockage and then caused the
heart attacks.
And every time they would try toput a stent in, where the artery

(08:10):
had torn, then the artery wouldtear someplace else.
And I was lifelighted, uh, tothe University of Colorado
Hospital on the other side oftown, um, where we learned that
I would need a heart transplant.
I was, of course, unconscious,um, once they had taken me in to
do the testing, um, andunconscious for a few days.
So, um, it's always difficult.
It's fascinating to me when youlose this period of time that

(08:35):
you're, you don't experience,but yet your family is going
through one of the hardestthings that they've ever went
through in their

Jason (08:42):
Yeah.
And you're not there.
I mean, really.
Right.

Becky (08:44):
Yeah.
I mean, you're physically there,but you're not present.

Jason (08:48):
just to give people context, no family history of
heart issues.
You were in great shape.
I mean, you guys were on a skitrip.
You're, you know, young,absolutely no reason to think
that you had massive heartissues.

Becky (09:02):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Um, and the condition that I hadtypically afflicts women between
the ages of 30 and 60 who havenone of the typical risk factors
for heart disease.
so this has led me to be anadvocate for women's heart
health

Jason (09:15):
Yeah.

Becky (09:16):
the reason I describe this as a bit of a Saul moment
is because

Jason (09:20):
Yeah.

Becky (09:21):
but I am not done with you yet.
And I just had this confidencethat, um, he, he wasn't done
with me yet.
And we were going to get throughthis.
In fact, I had a dream one nightin which I was arguing with
Jesus, me saying, Hey, like,when are we getting this new
heart?
Like we can't, you know, wake upevery day wondering is today
going to be the day.
And, and Jesus told me just bepatient.

(09:43):
It's going to be two months.
And I kept arguing with him,like not only are the doctors
telling us I can only be on thisexternal machine for a
definitive period of time, butalso my family emotionally, I
don't know if they can handleevery day wondering, is today
going to be the day?
The next morning I told myfamily about this dream, like,
listen, I don't know, was Ireally talking to Jesus?

(10:04):
Was it just a dream, that I tookthat step out in faith and
shared that story with them.
And so they put out, you know, aplea on social media.
for people to pray morefervently.
And the very next day we gotnews of a new heart.

Jason (10:17):
And so you were during that waiting period, obviously
bedridden on a machine, not ableto kind of talk us through what
level of acute care that you hadto be under.
Um, I mean, you just in thehospital waiting, right?
In an ICU, I'm guessing.

Becky (10:33):
Yeah, exactly.
And, and, uh, cardiothoracicICU.
And, uh, initially, and this waseven before they brought me out
of the coma, but initially therehad to be two nurses in my room
with me at all times, just incase.
Something started to happen andthey needed to immediately care
for me.
Um, I was first put on ECMO andthen put on that biventricle

(10:56):
assist device that wasfunctioning as my heart.
and they did, um, once theybrought me out of the coma and
they were the drug induced coma,uh, and they were able to
evaluate that I had not had astroke and that my other organs
were functioning well, I wasplaced then on the waiting list
for a transplant.
And each day we try to make alittle bit of progress to

(11:17):
getting me stronger, to be ableto just be prepared to go
through a heart transplant.

Jason (11:21):
Yeah.

Becky (11:22):
And so first it was just sitting up in bed.
For a period of time.
Then it was standing next to thebed, Going over and sitting in a
chair.
And then it was starting to walkdown the hall progressively
further.
Um, and I remember the first onemight've been the first time,
but maybe it was the second timethey had me sitting in a chair
and they bring this little thingthat you can bicycle, you know,
with your feet.

(11:42):
And I remember thinking in mymind, I was like, so happy and
elated that like, wow, look whatI'm doing.
And we have a video of this andyou go back and you look at the
video.
And even though in my mind, Ilike, I still have this memory
of it just I was feeling thissense of elation, of like, hope.
This is like a hopeful thingthat I was able to do.
Like, you look at the video andI look so just like,

Jason (12:07):
Pretty intense.

Becky (12:07):
going on in my mind, right?
It was very different.
And so, um, in these times whenwe would, have me get up and,
you know, Go and try to startwalking down the hall.
It took an entourage of nursesbecause it's so many machines
and things connected to him.
And my, my blood was literallygoing from my carotid artery out
to this machine being oxygenatedand warmed and coming back in
through a different tube.

(12:29):
And so if anything happened tothat, or one of those things got
pulled, like it would have beenbad news.
Bears, right?

Jason (12:36):
yeah, yeah.
Well, and I think I shared thiswhen you and I talked on the
phone.
I have our 18 year old, ouryoungest son, had a kidney
transplant and was almost wenton an ECMO machine when he was
about three days old.
They put them in the room anddidn't end up putting them on
it, but nurse 24, sevendedicated, not two, but he had
one.
And then he had, uh, yeah, openheart surgery three years ago.

(12:57):
So it's, uh, yeah, I know someof the, uh, Some of the
challenges, especially on thefamily side, not going through
it personally, but tremendousamount of stress and, yeah, it
draws you nearer to the Lord.
You have to because, right,you're out of

Becky (13:13):
he liked it.
I'm not giving you any choice inthe matter.

Jason (13:17):
Yeah.
It's totally out.

Becky (13:18):
I kind of read into it as a Saul moment is he, he forced
it on me.
And, and that's really what, um,transitioned me to not just a
life with God where I'm prayingto him for the things that I
want him to take action on or tohelp me with, but to really a
life that is for God where I'mactively, and I don't do it well
every day, but where I'mactively seeking to pursue his

(13:41):
will versus my

Jason (13:42):
Yeah.
So in the context of work,Becky, I mean, that's, so this
podcast is really to otherworkplace leaders, um, and those
who aren't in leadership thatwant to learn or aspire to
leadership.
God allowed that verychallenging time and situation
into your life and has, youknow, changed you dramatically

(14:02):
spiritually.
Sounds like a lot of spiritualgrowth and maturity through
that.
What would you tell peoplebefore and after, uh, that has
changed in your life and wouldencourage us who haven't been
through that to pursue thosechanges anyways in our spiritual
growth, our relationship withChrist.
Like what, tell us before andafter what has changed.

(14:25):
I know a little bit about yourpursuit of, um, faith in the
workplace and some of the workyou've done there, but I want,
yeah, I'd love to hear moreabout that from you.

Becky (14:33):
for me, my values didn't change from before and after,
but what did change is reallyliving out those values
intentionally and proactively.
and so before my life was verymuch focused on, because my
husband and I don't havechildren, we hadn't planned to
necessarily have childrenanyways, like.
Work was life and our identitywas really tied up in our work.

(14:57):
and now post transplant, uh, Ireally genuinely see my identity
as a daughter of God andintentionally and proactively
taking steps to live my life inthat way and to align how I
spend my time and my resourceswith those same values that I've
always had as a believer.
and so.

(15:17):
God led me to through somepeople that he put in my life
who were from completelydifferent aspects of my life.
And, but around the same time,both asked me if I would be
interested in helping to startfaith based employee resource
groups at PayPal.
and I was like, what's anemployee resource group was my
first reaction.

Jason (15:36):
So, so what, what is it?
How would you describe that tothe average Joe out here?

Becky (15:41):
yeah.
And a lot of people I thinkwould be really surprised to
learn that all the big techcompanies for the most part
have.
Faith based employee resourcegroups.
And an employee resource groupis very much like what it
sounds.
It is a resource group foremployees of a certain subset of
the employees.
And so most of the time they arearound the protected classes.

(16:05):
For equal opportunityemployment.
Um, and so a lot of times theywill have started with maybe a
women's employee resource groupthat really helps to lift up
women in the workplace, or, uh,might be around race, uh, might
be for veterans.
so this is for people whose coreidentity is rooted in their
faith and.
One of the reasons why it isalso necessary is because you

(16:28):
have people who, because oftheir faith, may be
discriminated against in someway, whether it's because
they're wearing a hijab or thejewelry that they wear, or by
their faith practices becausethey say, hey, at four Sundown
on Friday, I start my Sabbathand I can't be on call.
and making sure that companiesare providing religious

(16:48):
accommodations in the workplaceas well.
So that's kind of thefoundational why you should have
it, but the bigger, why youshould have it.
And from my perspective isbecause there's really intrinsic
value in people of faith andwhat they bring to the
workplace, meaning that.
My Christian faith is whatdrives me to work with
excellence.
My Christian faith is whatdrives me to treat others with

(17:11):
respect.
My Christian faith was thesource of my hope and resilience
through my heart transplantjourney, which continues today,
but journey that's over.
Um, and I wanted to enableothers to bring that same source
of hope and resilience and loveinto the workplace as well,
because there's intrinsic valuein that.
And so, uh, again, I had acouple of people, different

(17:32):
aspects of my life.
I bring this to my attention.
one of those is actually oursenior vice president, general
counsel at PayPal at the time.
And so she had sponsored theirChristian employee resource
group at AmEx when shepreviously worked at AmEx and
came to PayPal and surprisedthat we didn't already have this
at PayPal.
And so, uh, when you have yoursenior vice president, general
counsel, who's saying, yes, weshould do this and helping the

(17:54):
champion, it breaks down.
A lot of other barriers.
And so, um, we ended up startingan interfaith employee resource
group where people of all faithsare working together to uplift
and support each other.
At the same time, we also hadchapters for the different
faiths so that we weren'tsaying, Hey, all faiths are
basically the same or promotingone faith over another.

(18:16):
We were really intentional aboutbeing inclusive.
And so I was an active member aswell of our Christian.
Uh, ERG as well, our chapterwithin the ERG

Jason (18:26):
So I want to talk a little bit about your leadership
philosophy.
You've been in leadership rolesfor a long time with some really
large companies and, and alsothe context of, you know, this
whole event that happened withthis harsh transplant and how
maybe that you.
changed as a leader or changesome of your, um, methods in
which you lead others.

(18:47):
Um, I'd like to hear about that.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat.
What's your core model?
what's your leadershipprinciple?
How do you approach leadingothers in the workplace?

Becky (18:55):
and my core motto and what I also teach young people
or people who are for the firsttime and maybe becoming people
leaders is it's not about you.
And that's the foundationalelement, all of the other
leadership principles, becauseif you get that down, it's much
easier to kind of coach andlearn some of the other
principles.
And so starting with that as afoundation, how you live that

(19:19):
out then is.
Seek first to understand.
Don't go in assuming, uh, that Iknow all the answers, or if it's
maybe a conflict type ofsituation, don't go in assuming,
well, the other person's wrongand I'm right, or assume why
this person is behaving in theway that they are.
Make sure that you reallyunderstand first where they're

(19:40):
coming from, so that activelistening component, uh, is
really important.
and how you also live that outis, by, um, Say, I want to
reflect God's love at work.
And what does that look like?
Like, what would Jesus do inthis situation?
Yes.

Jason (19:55):
Yeah.
Reminds me of the John Maxwell.
I think at least he's the one Ialways coined that I feel like
coined this term to seek.
First to be understood, then to,you know, seek first to
understand, then to beunderstood, you know, that whole
piece of really, reallyunderstanding others, you know,
where they're coming from and,and, and, and having that

(20:16):
listening ear to just keep your,keep your opinion to yourself
and, you know, understand wherethey're coming from and how
they're feeling and what theircontext is, especially as a new
leader, joining a new team,that's super important.
I had somebody tell me a longtime ago, and I've shared this,
a lot on this podcast, but itwas listen, learn, then lead
once you join a new team.

(20:37):
And you know, whether it's a newpromotion for you or you're, you
know, just taking leadershipover from a new team.
And I think that's a really,really good, really good model.
Talk to me a little bit moreabout how as leaders, we
demonstrate the love of Christ,not only in the, in the times
that are a little moredifficult, joyful, right?
And promotion and development,but also in those performance

(21:00):
management, difficultconversations.
Like how do you, how do you dothat in a way that honors the
Lord?
When you have to have thosetypes of conversations up to and
including sometimes, you know,we've had to let people go.
Right.
And that's never a, never a goodthing, but how do we honor
Christ through those?

Becky (21:19):
Yeah.
So it's a great question becausethere is conflict in the
workplace.
Or sources of friction in theworkplace.
And as a leader, it's reallyimportant that you address those
up front and don't let themlinger and fester.
And I'm actually reading PeggyBodie's book on safe work, and I
think you recently recorded, Idon't think it's published yet,

(21:39):
but an episode with her that'll,will probably have aired already
at the point that people arelistening to this one, but I
just read her chapter onaddressing conflict, in the
workplace and think one of myspiritual gifts is being a
mediator.
It's something that even from ayoung age, like on the
playground of like, Oh, myfriends are fighting and I want
them to reconcile, to, uh, inthe workplace as well.

(22:01):
But I find that when I'm theone, like when I can serve in
that mediator context, It comesvery naturally, but maybe when
I'm the one who has the conflictwith another person, I do have
that natural tendency to firstsay, well, maybe this is just
going to resolve on its own.

Jason (22:16):
Ignore

Becky (22:16):
And so, I think it is really important coming at it
from a biblical perspective.
and I'm forgetting the versereference at the moment.
Um, but where, We're instructedto, Hey, if you do have a
problem, if someone has sinnedagainst you, or if you've sinned
against another person, go andaddress it with one on one
initially.
If that doesn't resolve it, thenmaybe, you know, bring some

(22:39):
other trusted leaders into thespace.
And I think that's such a greatmodel for how to address
conflict and make sure thatyou're not waiting to address
it, but you're addressing itupfront.
And then in the context of when,Maybe you are having to, cause I
have been at position of havingto lay people off.
Um, and it's an inhumane act,but if you can make it as humane

(23:00):
as possible with helping people,under, you can't always fully
articulate the why, behind it,but help them know that they are
going to be supported as much asthe company can support them
through that transition process.

Jason (23:16):
No, that's good.
And yes, um, Peggy's podcastshould be live by now.
It's scheduled for April 1st.
So, Lord willing, that's whenit'll go.
I'm super excited about itbecause there's so much good
leadership content there.
So, thank you for sharing that.
I know you and her are friends.
when you were talking aboutthat, it's really that church,
church discipline model, uh,found, and I believe it's

(23:38):
Matthew 18 and it's, I guess Iwould say fascinating, but it
is, it is the model that Jesusgave us to deal with church
discipline.
If someone's sinned against you,as you said, go to them and go
through and then bring somebodyelse in.
But that model works in everyrelationship and work at home,
um, And I absolutely, absolutelyhave used that at work.

(24:01):
And in fact, when I've had teammembers come to me and are
venting to me about a coworker,

Becky (24:08):
Yeah.

Jason (24:08):
know, now I'm, I'm all for help and solve that problem,
but I'm going to tell them, gotalk to that person.
You, you two need to work thatout.
And then, and then if you can't,yeah, let's, let's bring a
second party in eight, you know,meet your HR partner or somebody
like that that can comealongside you.
But that model is.
Yeah, it's, you know, thecreator of the universe gave it

(24:29):
and he created us.
So follow it.

Becky (24:31):
Yeah.

Jason (24:32):
Yeah, good.
No, thank you for that.
I want to talk a little bitabout the spiritual side of
things.
Becky, can you share with us?
What are your spiritualdisciplines?
What are the things that you doto grow in sanctification and
Stay strong in your walk withthe Lord?

Becky (24:46):
Yeah, and so I do try to start my day with the daily
refresh on the YouVersion Bibleapp.
Over time and in differentseasons of my life, that morning
routine may look different, butthat's my go to at the moment,
which it starts with a verse ofthe day and then some reflection
on that verse and then wraps upwith a prayer time, and that

(25:07):
prayer time includes some guidedprayer that they provide, but
also prayers that are in mypersonal prayer list that I keep
within the app.
And so it kind of cycles, itdoesn't go through the full
list, right?
But it cycles through three orso each prayer session.
And so I start with that.
in addition, something that I doon occasion and I should do it
more often because I tend to doit when, Oh, now I feel like I'm

(25:30):
getting off the path of whereGod's leading.
And then I do it.
Um, if I did it morepractically, I would, stray off
the path less.
But as an accountant, I do a Taccount, um, which if anyone's
had to take a accounting 101class, you've heard of T
accounts.
And on the left side, you havethe debits.
On the right side, you have thecredits and the debits are the
things to, that increase thebalance and the credits are the

(25:53):
things that decrease thebalance.
And so I go through thisexercise saying, what does Jesus
want for my life today?
And.
So one of the things he wants meto do more of on the left side
and one of the things that hewants me to stop doing or do
less of on the right side.
And that is just a goodframework for me to try to make
sure I'm either staying, inaccordance with God's will or,

(26:15):
getting back to, uh, following

Jason (26:18):
You do you write that down and those two the T
account?
Nice, I think that's a greatexercise and for an accountant.
That's brilliant.
No, you'll T accounts I did Ihated accounting.
No offense.
I loved I love financialAnalysis, you give me a income
statement balance sheet.
I'm with you you get into allthe T accounts and the ledgers

(26:40):
and I'm so glad I am so gladthat I have People like you that
I can work with it Yeah, it'simportant, important

Becky (26:47):
I'll play it.
Similarly, that's why I'vegravitated more towards auditing
versus the accounting because Iprobably lean a little bit more
in the direction that you do onthat.
Um, journaling is something thatI'm trying to work on and be
more consistent with becauselike you said, yes, I write it
down when I do it.

(27:07):
Um, but if I were journalingmore consistently, I, I find
when I do journal moreconsistently, there's just so
much more revelation.
That way.
It's a passive activity almostfor me when I'm not journaling.
It's a more active activity whenI'm journaling, even if I'm just
writing down my prayer, versusit being a self reflective, but
there's so much more selfreflection that happens when you

(27:29):
journal than when you don'tjournal.
Um, so that's one that I'mpersonally working on.
I don't know if you have anytips.
Do you journal?

Jason (27:37):
know what I have off and on, um, over the years I have
journal to, I have a personaljournal and a work journal that
the personal journal goes back22, 23 years.
And there's been times I don'tjournal for a year or two.
So, but to your point, yes.
And then my work journal hasbeen for me.
very helpful, especially as Ireflect back through very

(27:59):
difficult times when I thoughtlike all was lost.
This is it.
This is the worst time ever.
And now I look back, you know,on that 10 years, 15 years ago
and go, and it wasn't that bad.
It's really helped me to, youknow, reframe some of those
super stressful times whenyou're just spun up in your head
and you think it's just as badas it can get.

(28:20):
So yeah, highly recommendjournaling.
And in fact, Um, this isn'texactly journaling, but in my
planner, I use a daily, it's aweekly, quarterly planner, and
it's all handwritten.
And I'm a, and I'm a bigelectronics person.
99 percent of what I do, I keepdigital.
Um, I'm a Kindle reader.
I don't have a, I do have abookshelf, but you know, the

(28:41):
majority of the books I buy, I'mdigital.
But.
There's something to be saidabout sitting down every morning
before I start my workday andI'll actually recreate my
calendar.
I handwrite my meetings out.
What are my priorities?
If I have a one to one coming,what, what, what are the points
I want to get it, you know, thatI want to make in those one to
one.
So handwriting, that's a ton ofvalue.

Becky (29:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Jason (29:04):
Yeah, for sure.
No, it makes a big difference.
The other thing that, um, Ihaven't done this in a long
time, but my pastor introducedme to these things called
journalables and they are.
a book of the Bible and it's a,it's a heartbound book, black,
really nice, you know, one, um,ribbon in it.
And it is a, it is a one book ofthe Bible, but then one page is

(29:26):
scripture and the other page,um, is blank.

Becky (29:30):
Okay.

Jason (29:31):
Oh no, actually, you know what?
Um, this tells you it's been awhile since I did it.
Actually you write out thescripture and then you journal
it in the, I, in, um, the, wherethe scripture is written, it has
the chapter and verse and thenyou write the chapter and verse
out by hand and then youjournal.
And, uh, I've done part throughone of those.
Actually, I'm, I, I want tofinish it even just because to

(29:54):
give that, you know, to my kidsor grandkids as a, um, kind of a
heirloom, I guess.
So yeah, yeah.
So I definitely recommend,

Becky (30:03):
Yeah.

Jason (30:04):
doing that.

Becky (30:05):
Yeah.
Well, today is the day for youto restart

Jason (30:07):
right.
That's right.
True.
Um, when you were.
Young as a leader and startingoff Think back to like something
that you struggled with andshare with us what that might
have been and have you overcomeit?
Have you not overcome it?
How do you manage that?
Like what you know, tell us tellus kind of what that looks like

Becky (30:31):
It's interesting that when, a lot of times when you're
younger, like school age,younger, if you are the best in
the class at something or thebest athlete on your team at
something, they'll put you in aleadership position.
So you have the, in the businessworld, we call that you have the
technical competency, whether ornot you have always the, the
soft skills competencies to goalong with it.

(30:53):
I think something thatreinforces is that it's.
It's all about me and it's allon me.
Um, because I'm one who has tohit that game winning shot, or
if I don't hit that game winningshot, then it's my fault.
As you get into the businessworld, as you become a leader,
you have to recognize like, Ican't do it on my own.

(31:14):
We have to do this together as ateam.
In fact, we're much better ifyou are soliciting the ideas of
everyone and vetting those ideascollectively as a group and
avoiding group think and, orjust following blindly following
what the leader's doing.
And so earlier in my career, asI started to become a people
leader, Had to let go of acouple of things.

(31:36):
One, that we have to do thingsBecky's way, you first become a
leader, I think your initialthought is, yes, now I get to
dictate what we're doing andwhat we're doing on the boss.
And you can pretty quickly, ifyou're paying attention, you
pretty quickly realize that'snot necessarily the best
approach, because your employeesaren't feeling as valued, Then
you're also again not gettingthe, the diversity of ideas and

(31:59):
viewpoints that might actuallyhelp to bring different ways to
solve a problem that youyourself haven't thought

Jason (32:05):
Yeah,

Becky (32:06):
The other thing was in letting go of the we have to do
it my way is even if I see flawsin another way of doing
something, it might be betterfor that employee to try it
their way.
Okay.
Fail and learn from thatfailure.
And so allowing your employeessometimes to fail, even when,

(32:27):
you know, you could have steppedin and said, ah, stop, you know,
let's redirect as long as it'snot going to be really

Jason (32:34):
yep, absolutely

Becky (32:36):
right?
I know I, Probably have learnedmuch more from my failures in
life than I have from mysuccesses, uh, and to allowing
people to have some smallfailures to learn from those
failures versus always justcoming in, um, like a helicopter

Jason (32:50):
Yes, no, it's true

Becky (32:52):
that forum.

Jason (32:53):
I was actually, for some reason, I've been thinking about
that very thing lately.
And it's so true that as leadersto allow people to have that
level of autonomy, even if youdon't agree with the direction
they're going to take, or maybeyou're like, yeah, this is
probably not going to end great.
Again, knowing that you're notgoing to allow them to have a
catastrophic failure orsomething that would harm the

(33:13):
business.
But it also shows them that yousupport them.
And, you know, and you comealongside them and develop them
through that and say, Hey, what,you know, what changes do you
think you can make to try thisagain?
I think, I think that's, I thinkthat's, uh, that's

Becky (33:29):
part of your question was, do I still struggle with
some of that today?
Of course, right?
It's not natural human tendency.
Um, to that selfishness,

Jason (33:38):
Yep.
Yep.

Becky (33:39):
great in our sinful nature.
And, um, and how I, I tried toagain, go back to that initial
motto to remind myself of it'snot about me and helps to ground
me and reset

Jason (33:50):
How do you, Becky, how do you, let's say you're in a, you
know, a team setting as theleader, you're the formal
leader.
And you're, you and your teamare working to solve a problem
or implement a change.
How do you minimize yourinfluence in your voice enough

(34:11):
to ensure that you're gettinginput from the all around the
table?
I mean, there's some who aregoing to give it, but, and I'm
sure you've, I'm sure you've hadto struggle with this or think
through this as a leader,especially with someone who's,
I'm that way too.
That's can, if given to your owndevices, just come in and say,
Guys, here's the problem.
Here's the solution.

(34:31):
Any questions?
Let's go.
But how do you, how have youtaken practical steps to kind of
minimize your own voice enough,not to eliminate it, but to not
rule the room, I guess.

Becky (34:44):
And I'm having to practice this right now to some
extent because coming in, uh, asthe new leader, and there are
one of the reasons I'm there asa new leader is because there
are opportunities forimprovement.
And I need to make sure Iunderstand, well, how did we get
here and what really are thoseroot causes before we get to
solutioning and the only way forme to understand how did we get

(35:09):
here?
And the root cause is by firstseeking to understand and
listening.
And so I will get the teamtogether and rather than me
saying, okay, We're going tocome out of this with a solution
today, and here's what I think.
Uh, I will set the agenda of,hey, we're here today to try to

(35:30):
figure out the root cause ofXYZ.
And I really want to make sure Ioveremphasize, I really want to
hear your guys input.
I think a point you were makingis, especially when you're in a
hybrid, I'm going to be talkingabout how to make sure that
everyone's voice is beingincluded in a fully remote
environment.
Or a fully remote environmentwhere you've got some people in
the room, some people on a call,or maybe you're all virtual.

(35:50):
How do you make sure thateveryone's voice is being
included?
And so, if I'm finding that somepeople are contributing and some
people are kind of standing out,Sitting in the background
listening, they're notcontributing as much.
I will just point blank say,well, so and so, what do you,
what do you think about that?
What's your perspective?
Um, because a lot of times thatperson who has been sitting

(36:12):
there actively listening up tothat point is just going to drop
an insight bomb that we wouldnot have gotten if we didn't
pull it off that person.

Jason (36:22):
Yes.
I've taken the same thing.
I actually am thinking of aspecific individual who can tend
to be pretty quiet on our team.
And anytime that I've said, Iwant to know what you're
thinking.
There's something deep there.
So

Becky (36:36):
Yeah, I also, uh, think about, you know, how did Jesus
operate?
And so many times when he wasasked a question, he would
respond with a question ratherthan just immediately, he's God,
he's all knowing he could have,he could have just brought some
wisdom to the table, but hehelped others think through it

(36:58):
by first asking questions andthen guiding them to, um, the
end point.

Jason (37:03):
Yeah.
So I want to ask a questionabout the specific work that you
do, Becky.
So you're in accounting, buteven, uh, I think I would call
it a niche within that is, um,auditing.
Um, when you look at your workand I think that I think that
God made us to work and that allwork minus something that's just

(37:25):
overtly sinful, the few thingsyou know that we can think of,
but all work other than that hasintrinsic value and it
demonstrates some characteristicof God, eight characteristics of
God.
And so when you think aboutaccounting and auditing and the
things that that brings to thetable, how do you, how do you
look at that as this issomething that we're, we're

(37:48):
doing that is bringing blessingand it is a characteristic of
God in what way?

Becky (37:54):
The auditing at my level at this stage goes well beyond
accounting.
It's really across the companyand auditing the risks of the
company and how's the companymanaging those risks.
And therefore just looking atkind of through that risk
management lens, the intrinsicvalue is that I'm helping the
company to better manage thoserisks either by identifying.

(38:18):
Hey, we have a gap in a controllike, Hey, we should have had a
control over here to mitigatethis risk or prevent this risk.
And we don't.
And so let's help put that inplace or detecting when errors
have been happening and why havethey been happening?
And how again, can we helpprevent them?
So that work in and of itself,that's the intrinsic value of
any audit function.

(38:39):
But from putting the spirituallens and the faith lens on it
is, God brought us.
into this world to reconcile.
I mean, that's why he broughtJesus into the world.
And if we're following in Jesusfootsteps, we are here to
reconcile the world to him.
And so to help to work towards amore perfect heaven on earth.

Jason (39:04):
to bring excellence.
As you mentioned it earlier,that word excellence.
And I think that that's soimportant for all believers,
whatever they're doing to workwith excellence.
No, I like that.
Uh, you know, I think aboutauditing and controlling
sometimes it's a, sometimes itcan be looked at as a little dry
and be, some people look at itas go, Oh, they're going to come
and tell me what I'm doingwrong.
Right.
I mean, you know that it's, it'sa, it's a stereotype.

(39:27):
That's not good, but it'simportant that those are
important functions.

Becky (39:31):
I'm corporate and I'm here to help.
Yeah.

Jason (39:33):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Well, you know, my, my world's,um, manufacturing and sometimes
the quality person is seen likethat, but I have come to respect
and love, uh, my quality teamsand what they bring to the table
to help us get better.
You know, yeah, they're going tobe the ones to come and kind of
point out, this isn't what we'redoing well, but let's embrace

(39:53):
that and look for ways to getbetter, to be safer, to have
less risk in the business, youknow, to mitigate those things.
So, yeah.
Yeah.

Becky (40:06):
to interact with all aspects of the business in my
role.
Therefore, I have theopportunity to influence them.
And therefore I have theopportunity to show God's love
to them.
Um, and how I treat them, right?
Not coming in necessarily andtrying to saying, Hey, I'm going
to get to know you a little bit.
And then, Oh, by the way, haveyou read your Bible lately?
Um, but just.

(40:29):
reflecting God's love to themand how I treat them with
respect, how I value them, how Ipartner with them to help make
things better versus just comingin and a little bit to the
conversation we were havingearlier with like the leader and
the employee.
Like, I'm not just going to comein and say, gosh, I'll do it
this way.
I'm going to come in, reallyunderstand why are things

(40:49):
operating the way they are?
What problems do we have?
What's the problem?
And the root cause of thoseproblems, let's work together
and partner together and how wecan solve those and make it
better.
And I think that's a way thatGod just instructs us to go
about our daily lives.
And I can bring that to thetable and how I, I treat people
at work.

Jason (41:09):
Yeah, and I think in your role, as I think about my
experience with people that doyour type of work, for those
that come alongside and say Ihave, I have a job to do and I'm
gonna, you know, look at, lookat your systems, I'm gonna
sample your systems and we'regonna see if things are going
well, but I'm really here to tryto help and make improvements
versus you get the feelingsometimes I'm here to try to

(41:31):
uncover what you're doing wrongand throw you under the bus.
And that is, you know, that'sthe approach that is taken
sometimes.
So I think that your approach inyour work, especially your line
of work can really set you apartas a, yeah, as a child of God.

Becky (41:45):
Yeah.
And in an audit role, you dohave a certain amount of power
because your recommendations or.
Once there's agreement, therehas to be some level of
agreement on, yes, there is aproblem here and we recommend
how to resolve that problem.
There's great power that cancome with that.
And with great power, Spider Mansays, comes great

(42:06):
responsibility.

Jason (42:07):
Yeah, well, there's, you know, to your point, uh, there's
letters that have been writtenby auditors that, uh, can end
somebody's career and, you know,and, and, and, you know,
probably there's times it wasjustified, but yeah, it's to, to
think through that is, uh,important.
Uh, Becky, another leadershiptopic for you.
Who do you like, we alreadytalked about one author you

(42:28):
like, Peggy Bode, just releasedher new book that's super
important, Sacred Work.
Who else do you follow,podcasts, authors, like from, to
just develop, uh, your ownleadership skills?

Becky (42:38):
I've got a couple modern day ones, but, uh, David and
Psalm 23, if you've ever 23 fromthe perspective of, this is
actually a.
Leadership guide and we alwaystend to think about it as this
is something that gets read at afuneral but I attended a faith
and work movement annual leadersretreat a couple of years ago

(43:00):
and The pastor there and hiswife brought forward this to say
hey look at this chapterdifferently, that actually God
is laying out how we shouldoperate as leaders.
And I just felt like so mindblown by that because I've never
actually read Psalm 23 from thatperspective.
And so I actually brought thatback to our, Christian, group,

(43:23):
uh, and did a session on it atPayPal.
Um, and just.
So enlightening to think of andto read Psalm 23 through that
perspective.
And the way that it talks aboutI rod and I staff comfort me.
So both yes, when you'reencouraging me, but also when
you're disciplining me, right.
And to think about when I amdisciplining someone that I am

(43:45):
doing it in a way.
That they are going to come outof it feeling loved as one
example of something that's inthat

Jason (43:54):
I love that.
I, I've never thought of that.

Becky (43:57):
go back and view that chapter through a different
lens.
Modern day.
So Patrick

Jason (44:03):
Hmm.

Becky (44:04):
love all of his work.
Uh, I've very much used the fivedysfunctions of a team, uh, and
team building activities with,uh, within my own teams, I think
it's really important as leadersthat even if we've created this
open environment where peoplefeel valued and they feel they
have a voice and they feelcomfortable speaking up and we
can have healthy debate, if youdon't occasionally, maybe it's

(44:26):
quarterly, maybe it's a coupleof times a year, set aside time
as a team to say, Hey, we'redoing a team building event.
A lot of times things stilldon't come out that might be
lurking.
So I've used that finedysfunctions of a team.
There's a little bit of a surveythat goes along with it where
people get a chance toanonymously fill out the survey
and then come together as agroup and talk about, Hey, what

(44:47):
are the areas that we need towork on and why?
Um, so love that.

Jason (44:51):
Is that your favorite book of his?
I love him.
I love that.
All of his books that I've readare great.

Becky (44:56):
Yeah, that's the one that I've practically used the most
for sure.
and then Jordan Rayner, I knowhe's been on your podcast as
well.
So just recently read his, uh,Sacredness of Secular Work, a
book and have been communicatingback and forth with him on, is
there such thing as a heavenlycalling?
So what's our earthly calling?

(45:18):
Having just recently gonethrough a career transition from
PayPal to Lesley's found thatbook really helpful, uh, to me
and navigating throughdiscerning where is God leading
next, because I too, at manytimes, and I've been at a fork
in my career, a transition,thought, should I get out of the
marketplace and do somethingthat's more in traditional

Jason (45:40):
Ministry.
Yeah.
Right.

Becky (45:42):
Yeah, that's what God's calling me to do.
And every time God has wideopened a door in the marketplace
and closed doors in theministry.
And so I'm like, okay, literallyGod, you're making it pretty
clear for me.
I appreciate that.
so sacredness of secular work.
I really enjoy that.
Um, I just brought up thisnugget of like, is there such a

(46:03):
thing as a heavenly calling?
Because I've been thinking, youknow, I don't think auditors
should be needed in heaven.

Jason (46:10):
in that book that I loved, because I can, you know,
again, I love making stuff.
I love going into amanufacturing plant.
I don't care what they'remaking.
I love to go in and just see howstuff's made.
And I think maybe in heaven theycould, they're doing that.
But one of the things he talkedabout in the book is again,
speculating that maybe there'ssomething that you're passionate
about that just it's not goingto pay the bills, but you always

(46:31):
kind of wished you could do it.
You know, maybe it's you, you'rea, you're a musician and if you
could do that for a living, butyou can't, so you do this other
thing.
So maybe Becky, for you, there'ssomething that's, you know,
that, that heart desire that,well, I wouldn't pay the bills,
but that's a, yeah, yourheavenly calling.

Becky (46:45):
yeah, trying to dream big about Oh, what can my heavenly
calling be some things I thoughtabout even again, these are just
things I probably would notactually end up doing it being a
game show hostess or a tastetester on a baking show, like a
judge on a baking show.

Jason (47:01):
There you go.
See?
Yeah.

Becky (47:04):
things like that.
Um, but Jordan also reminded methat, um, you The leadership
skills that I'm using in my dayto day work and continuing to
develop on and talking abouthere, like those likely will
also be needed, um, on the, inthe new earth, um, because to
the point you just made or morespeculating, but.

(47:24):
Things are still going to bebuilt.
They're still going to becreated.
And so those leadership skillsare still going to be

Jason (47:30):
absolutely.
So on that topic, what tipswould you give to someone who's
just moving into a leadershiprole?
And I think some of what youalready said, you would, you
would give advice, but let's saysomeone invited you to have
coffee or maybe someone on yourteam that's getting the first
promotion to be a supervisor ofa small team.
What, what's uh, what advice,maybe something you haven't
already shared that you wouldgive to them.

(47:50):
Yeah.

Becky (47:51):
Yeah, um, so I would start with the things that we've
already talked about.
Hey, it's not about you andseeking first to understand.
And so I start with those as thefoundation.
But then also, you know, helpthem understand what their core
competencies are and whatthey're not.
I think self awareness is reallyimportant.
Because if there's an area thatmaybe isn't, uh, they're not as

(48:14):
strong at, but they can identifythat someone in their team is
really strong at that, then makesure that they're, uh, enabling,
uh, that employee to bring thatforward.
And you really do have to tailoryour, tailor your leadership to
each person individually, whichmeans you have to get to know
your employees, not just asworkers, but also as human

(48:34):
beings.
So, you know, really getting toknow your employees as human
beings and treating them ashuman beings versus just
workers, very

Jason (48:42):
Thank you.
Amen.

Becky (48:44):
and something that you're not going to be as successful,
you might be successful, butyou're not going to be as
successful as you could be as aleader, if you're not

Jason (48:52):
Have you bet Becky on that topic?
And I couldn't agree that I havea hearty.
Amen for that.
When I, when I really began todevelop as a leader, I went to
work at an organization who waspassionate about people in
development and it was the firsttime I ever took a personality
test.
Uh, and there's a bunch outthere, but like disc.
and Myers Briggs.

(49:13):
And so is there any that youwould recommend that you've
used, uh, with you, yourself andteams that have helped, helped
in that type of, you know,opening your eyes to, to those
strengths and weaknesses even.

Becky (49:25):
Yeah, I've used StrengthsFinder, uh, as well as
the Disk Assessment, uh, both ofthose, so I think those, uh, are
both helpful, and then not justhaving the team take the
assessment, but of course, thenbring that, uh, the results to
together and discuss it as ateam and make sure that there's
transparency, like transparencyis another thing that is so

(49:45):
important, and whether it's, youknow, An exercise like that or
just in general, transparency isreally important.
And of course there can be timesas a leader, there are certain
things that are not supposed toshare, um, until something
progresses a little bit furtherdown the road.
Um, but that also, thattransparency helps employees
feel very valued as well.

Jason (50:07):
my team I'm going to be as transparent as I can be with
them and that, you know, andagain, in my, in my, background
working with large teams acrossmultiple shifts, white collar,
blue collar.
And I've found oftentimes theguys on the shop floor are being
kept in the dark and things thatthey don't have to be, you know,
and I'm like, why do we keepthem in the dark?
Let's tell them what we knowwhat we can.
You know, there's certain thingsyou cannot share at certain

(50:29):
times, but I think you're right.
It builds trust when you whenyou're transparent.
It just it builds that trust.

Becky (50:36):
Yeah.
Which goes back to that fivedysfunctions of a team and that
foundation is

Jason (50:40):
Yes, yes.
Let me go back to what you saidabout, uh, StrengthsFinder.
Absolutely.
If somebody looks upStrengthsFinder 2.
0, I think it's a veryinexpensive little book, and it
comes with the survey in it thatyou can go take.
So, I absolutely recommend ifyou are, if you are a leader and
have never taken one of those,you really should to help you
understand yourself better.

(51:01):
I had a team one time, a team ofmanagers, and we all took the
StrengthsFinder, and then weblended it, Like we said, if we
were one person, were we reallystrong and were we and we had
some areas that were kind ofblind spots, you know, because
it was like, man, there's nobodyon the team is, I don't remember
what it was, but let's say, butthere's no one here with any
kind of empathy.
We got to be kind of carefulabout how we might approach

(51:22):
certain situations where, youknow, as a, as a group, we're
not very empathetic.
So yeah, that's, that's good.
That's really, uh, that's reallywise advice.
When your time as a workplaceleader is done, you've got, I
think, a lot of work in front ofyou.
You're, you're pretty young inyour career.
I think still mid careerprobably.
But when you're done, what doyou hope people will remember

(51:43):
about having worked with you?
Having worked for you?
What do you hope your legacywill be?
That's

Becky (51:49):
I have the benefit of having just Left one company for
another company.
And, um, what I hope peoplewould say and what I have heard
from people is that I was a joyto work with, which as we've
already talked about, auditorsmay not always be in that light,
right?
Um, why, why that's important tome and why I want people to say

(52:09):
she was a joy to work with isbecause then I know that I have
reflected God's love to them.
And that they saw that I livedmy life with a sense of hope and
a sense of purpose.
And that's what's translatinginto joy because that's what
Christians should model.
That's what a Christian shouldbe.
And that's how people encounterChrist is through seeing how

(52:30):
Christians carry themselves, howthey conduct themselves.

Jason (52:34):
what's your, what's your current, as much as you want to
share your current kind ofsituation with you've had a
heart transplant, like what'sthat future hold for you from a
health?
And again, I have a son who'shad a transplant.
So I know some of the things,but, and, and as much as you
would like to share, and thenhow might people pray for you in
that situation?
Anything upcoming that we can,you know, keep in front of the
Lord?

(52:54):
Yeah.

Becky (52:56):
you asking that question.
And I'm very open to talkingabout my medical situation.
I'm blessed that, uh, not,having any issues at this time.
Um, I'm nine years posttransplant.
Um, the future continues to lookvery bright.
That said, the averagetransplant lasts 10 to 12 years.
The average heart transplant,each organ is a little bit

(53:17):
different.
now a lot of reasons why Ishould exceed those averages
because I was younger when I hadmy Relatively younger.
When I had my transplant at theage of 34, I don't have any
other underlying healthconditions at the same time.
And so I do know people who are30 plus years.
That's certainly the outliercases, but they're 30 years on a
heart.
I also know people who've hadmore than one heart transplant.

(53:39):
And so that's what I anticipatewill be in my future is that I
will go through another hearttransplant at some point in my
lifetime.
So I do hope to retire early aswell.
So I get, because I think mylife expectancy is probably
shorter than the average.
but the first time I wentthrough the transplant, I had
the benefit of ignorance isbliss.

(54:00):
I knew nothing about what it wasgoing to be like, how it was
going to feel all the poking andthe prodding.
And the fact that once you getthe transplant, then they have
to test for rejection, which.
literally involves theminvasively, taking samples of
the heart muscle, to checkwhether there's any evidence of
rejection in the tissue.

(54:21):
Um, once you get, about a yearout from transplant, they can
simply do it through a bloodtest, but they, it's like, I
just got this new heart andyou're literally taking,

Jason (54:28):
Biopsies.

Becky (54:29):
stopping your biopsy of my heart.
You're taking pieces of this newheart that you just gave me.
And so the first time through, Ididn't know any better.
There were things that thedoctors would say, Oh, this
isn't going to hurt.
And that was clearly, uh,

Jason (54:41):
Yeah.
You not.

Becky (54:43):
not fully accurate, but it kept the anxiety level low.
Right.
Um, so I do have, Trepidationabout going through a second one
because now I know, um, that so,you know, I would appreciate
prayers for that.
But I also have that confidencethat God got us through the
first time through.
And I don't know, will I get asecond one?
Won't I?
Like, I don't know what that'sgoing to look like.

(55:04):
Um, but I know that in whateverthe situation that God is going
to Take care of us and that he'shere with us.
And that doesn't mean it's goingto be easy.
That doesn't mean it's not, it'sgoing to be painless.
Like it's going to be hard.
I used to think that I didn'tfear death because death would
result in eternity and heavenwhere there is no more pain.

(55:26):
There is no more sorrow.
And now I know actually theprocess towards death can be
very painful.
like I said, God really gave methat sense of peace in that most
difficult time, and that'ssomething that I just has
carried forward with me sincethen.
And through every difficultsituation that I've come across
in my life.
And, God really led me through,um, some other Christians in my

(55:50):
life.
Um, a kingdom coach, um, that Imet with a couple of years post
transplant to get to that placeof fully surrendering my will to
God's will.
I do it perfect every day.
No, but the way to that life ofpeace and freedom is through
surrendering to God's will.
And when I find myself notfeeling that sense of peace, not

(56:12):
feeling that sense of freedom,regardless of the circumstances,
it's because I'm not on thatpath, following God's will.

Jason (56:20):
Yeah.
You're taking it back.
Taking that back.
All right.

Becky (56:23):
Yeah.
I'm trying to take back

Jason (56:24):
Yup.
Exactly.
Well, I appreciate you sharingthat, um, sister, and I would
ask that, yeah, people, youknow, as you come to mind, pray
about that and your future, andwe'll pray that you have that
you're an outlier on many, manydecades of that heart
transplant.
And again, I can empathize withthat.
My son's 14 years and, um, we'reprobably, you know, it's

(56:45):
starting to show now kidneytransplants, much different, uh,
living donor, you know, isavailable, would be available.
So it's, it's very different,less risk, but.
Still can understand that andthe monthly blood checks and all
that.
You got to go get, go get thedraw every month and see how
things are going.
So uh, anybody you'd like to seecome on the podcast, anybody

(57:05):
that you could refer to come andvisit with us here.

Becky (57:09):
I got two names for you.
One is Craig Carter.
He, uh, used to work with Inteland was the leader of the
Christian ERG and the crossfaith ERG there.
I am currently, uh, working withhim, um, on starting a new
nonprofit called CourageousThird, and the reason it's
Courageous Third, third beingGod first.

(57:30):
Others second, and thenourselves third.
So that's the third and thecourage thing that it takes a
lot of courage in the context ofwork, to reflect God's love at
work.
And that's really the mission ofthe organization is to connect,
And equip Christians in theworkplace to reflect God's love
at work.
And so, that's something thatGod has put that calling on

(57:51):
Craig, uh, to lead that effortand so I'm supporting as a board
member, um, but I would love to,to hear him on your podcast.
The other person, um, is mysister in law, so she is an
author.
Her name is Justine Fulker.
Um, she's an author.
She's a coach, does a lot ofcorporate training.

(58:12):
Um, so she does a lot of likethe Brene Brown training, but
she's really, a courage leaderas well.
So kind of interesting that theword courage is coming up in
both of those contexts, um, butyeah, I'd love to, to hear more
about that.
I hear her here as

Jason (58:23):
That'd be great if you, uh, feel if they would like to
connect, uh, you have my contactinfo.
I'd love to talk to him.
And you know that I feel likethere's so much momentum right
now in the movement.
I call it a movement, the faithand work movement.
I just saw.
And again, this is, we'rerecording this, um, in March of
this year.
So by the time people here,it'll be summertime, I think,
but yeah.

(58:44):
There's a conference that'scoming.
There's books.
I've read three books in thelast four months that are all
faith and work related.
And so it's so exciting.
It's exciting.
It's, it's an, it's reallyexciting time.
So, last thing is just how canpeople best and we'll link the
stuff in the show notes, butlike, what are some of the best
ways for people to network withyou, Becky, if they'd like to do

(59:05):
so?

Becky (59:07):
Yeah, LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me.
Um, I've also recently launcheda website that I'm probably
still tinkering with a littlebit, but Rebecca Pomerleau dot
com.
And the reason that I'velaunched that website is because
I am writing a book about myheart transplant journey and how
that led me to a life of peaceand freedom when wanting to help
equip others to do the same.

(59:29):
Um, so check me, check out mywebsite, connect with me on
LinkedIn.

Jason (59:33):
Great.
And I saw two of today on linkedon your LinkedIn page.
Um, there's a link to a YouTubevideo you did, I'm going to say
five years ago, four or five,six years ago.
Um, a really good talk that yougave, I think maybe at a faith
and work conference talkingabout that.
So, yeah.

Becky (59:50):
it might be the one that was at the Silicon Valley prayer
breakfast where I was sharing myheart story.
Um, I also spoke at passiontalks, um, and in Silicon Valley
as well.
So probably one of those

Jason (01:00:01):
Good.
So good landing page will beyour LinkedIn page and your
website.
We will put those on there andwe will lift you up in prayer
about your health and also yourbook.
Very exciting.
Thank you for the work thatyou're doing to share your
story.
And really, ultimately, I knowyou want to glorify the Lord and
talk about what he's done in andthrough you.
So, um, thank you for, for thatand for coming on today.

(01:00:22):
I really appreciate it.

Becky (01:00:24):
Yeah.
Thank you for having me.
And there, there was one kind oflast nugget that I wanted to
share with folks as well.
You know, if you find yourselfin a place, um, where these
principles, these biblicalleadership principles that we've
been talking about are countercultural, maybe it's counter to
the culture of your company as awhole.
Maybe it's counter to just theculture of your team or a leader
that you work with.

(01:00:45):
Keep the faith and stay thecourse.
Um, because you know, Paulinstructs us, uh, that to run in
such a way as to get the prizeand that prize is not.
necessarily the promotion ormore responsibility or the raise
or things of that nature, butthe prize is honoring God.
And ultimately, um, our rewardis in heaven and not of this

(01:01:05):
earth.
And so do not grow weary in

Jason (01:01:07):
Amen.
Amen.
And you know, if it's the, ifthat is the case, then I would
say that person's been calledinto a dark culture or dark
place to be a light and salt.
And, uh, yeah, that's greatadvice.
Great encouragement.
Thank you for that.
All right.
Well, thank you.
Thank you, Becky, for being on.
Appreciate that.
And, uh, yeah.
And your time.
Thank you.

Yeti Nano (01:01:26):
And thank you for joining me again this month to
meet another leader, striving toExcel in their work and on our
Christ in the process.
Lord willing, we will be backagain next month.
Learning from another Christianleader.