October 15, 2024 • 10 mins
Is perfectionism a double-edged sword in your life? In this episode, Sian and Andy explore the complex nature of perfectionism, from its invaluable role in critical fields like brain surgery to the unnecessary stress it creates in our daily routines. We delve into the root causes of perfectionism, dissecting how fear of judgment and the pursuit of an ideal environment can transform into a relentless drive, often leading to 'tippy toe' behaviour. By sharing personal anecdotes and examining the interplay between genetic factors, stress, and environmental influences, we uncover how perfectionism can sometimes do more harm than good, particularly when it imposes impossible standards on ourselves and others.
Looking for strategies to cope with perfectionism and foster personal growth? In the latter part of our conversation, we pivot towards actionable insights on self-improvement. We invite you to continue this journey with us in future episodes of "Big Questions. Short Answers." If today's discussion resonated with you, visit sianjaquet.com to submit your own questions and topics for upcoming shows. For those eager to dive deeper, check out Sian's course on values at sianjaquet.com to start building a life you truly love. Don't forget to subscribe, share with your friends, and thank you for tuning in!
For more content, check out Sian's website sianjaquet.com, and her online course: Create The Life You Truly Love.
www.sianjaquet.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And we're going to get this one absolutely perfect.
This is going to be the bestone of all.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Big Questions.
Short Answers.
I'm Sian.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
And I'm Andy Sian's husband asking the big life
questions.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
And possibly adding a little bit of unsolicited
advice.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Maybe this podcast is brought to you by San's
value-based online course.
Visit shanjackacom to find outmore.
Okay, the question of today isis being a perfectionist serving
you well?
I mean, obviously there'scertain things where being a
(00:42):
perfectionist is probably quiteimportant, like being a brain
surgeon.
I think you wouldn't just wantto go in there with a bit of oh,
she'll be all right, but interms of, we're not talking
about that, but we're talkingabout just life in general.
I think we all know some people.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
We've got a pattern here.
Now, as we're doing more ofthese, I need to ask you what do
you think a perfectionist is?
Well, as a character, character, a personality type.
We're not talking about exactlyas you say.
I'd like you to be aperfectionist if you're drawing,
as an engineer, bridges andyou're doing open heart surgery
on a two-year-old.
Yeah, I want you to be aperfectionist.
(01:18):
I want you to stay in that mostwell.
So what does it mean?
What made you ask the question?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I think that it's a little bit down to.
You know, there's people that Isuppose just are afraid of
things going wrong, whetherthat's to do like with a kid's
party or, you know, friendscoming over for dinner.
I think some of us are allfamiliar with various people who
(01:45):
you know, for reasons bestknown to them, they just want
everything to be perfect, andit's a kind of it feels like
quite a taut piece of materialcontrol, but they want to make
it perfect for everyone.
You know what I mean.
They want to make it perfectfor everyone.
You know what I mean.
They want to make it perfect,Hang on.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You're slightly dancing around to.
You know, a perfectionist canactually radiate those demands
to everybody else around them.
Okay, you know, be it in a home, family, friend situation or at
work, I'll share with you andanybody listening to this who's
worked with me.
There'll be some people who aregoing to laugh when I use this
(02:29):
phrase tippy toe.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
All right yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
There was a time when I had a disproportionate number
of clients that were in PR,marketing, that kind of media
activity, consultancy work, andit was fascinating to see the
over-representation ofperfectionists beating
themselves up because they'renot good enough.
(02:52):
Constantly judging, constantlyover-revving with the amount of
work they contribute or theamount of focus and effort they
put in something because itneeds to be perfect is a
personality.
It's when it becomes harmful toyou and it's like having a
little engine, an extra littleengine inside you that just
(03:15):
never stops.
More, more, better, better.
And I call them I used to callthem tippy toe girls to
themselves, to their faces, thatthey were on their tippy toes
all the time.
You're like ballerinas on blocks, but ballerinas gets on blocks
to do certain movements incertain dances, for certain
reasons.
Ballerinas are not on blocksall the time yeah, right.
Whereas the analogy I would sayto these people is that you
(03:38):
know you are like a ballerinawho is crushing your toes and
your feet and everything isbleeding, and there's no reason
why you've got to be up on theseblocks.
You, you can actually come downand be like the rest of us
human beings.
The issue is, where is the linein this?
Yeah, I mean, I think there aresome areas where we can all
over-ref and have perfectionism.
I actually think that stresstriggers a lot of perfectionist
(04:00):
behaviour and a lot of fear.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So if I look at my own life and I am being quite
serious now right as a familyunit, there have been many
occasions when the pack hasturned on me, the pack and said
what it's like yeah I'm sittingin my family a pack of rabid
dogs.
The pack has turned on mebecause I need the house to be
clean.
I need it done to that level,yeah, because we've got people
coming around, yeah, or becausewe've got visitors.
(04:32):
You know that kind of thing allright okay now going back to
cleaning well, the truth is, theperfectionism is the
perfectionism, and that behaviorand that need for everything to
be's because of a belief thathappened years ago.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
For me, it's about being judged.
For me, it's about creating thenicest environment I can for
people.
With what I have, it's alanguage of love for me.
Yes, I actually get enjoymentout of doing it right Now.
That's the other thing aboutperfectionists it's not always a
dark alley of negativity, butyou can actually feel an
(05:09):
incredible sense of achievementwhen you do it.
The problem is are you reachingsuccess in the way that you
want, or is it constantly movingfurther and further out of your
reach?
That is when perfectionismbecomes a problem.
And is it perfectionism thatyou have a literal control over,
(05:31):
or is it perfectionism thatyou're spilling out to other
people?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Well, that's, I think , where it becomes dangerous,
isn't it when it's spilling outto other people?
You're putting a whole lot ofstress on other people to meet
your requirements.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, but it's what's the belief behind those
requirements?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I mean, I think there's a whole load of science
and learning as to internalpressures, the judgments and, if
indeed you know, are youlooking at a genetic
predisposition towards it?
Are there environmental factors?
You know what I mean.
It can become a problem if it'saffecting your daily life.
I remember talking to somebodya few years ago who had been
(06:16):
assessed for ADHD as an adult,and that was one of the ways in
which their ADHD manifested wastheir need for perfectionism.
Everything had to be right okayand are we.
You know, when doesperfectionism become compulsive,
obsessional behavior?
there are some right you knowI'm not a clinical psychologist.
(06:38):
It's not for me to go into that.
But what I'm saying is thatperfectionism can be an
acceptable word to describe very, very, very challenging
behaviour that, for the personwho's displaying it and for
people around it, can be really,really hard.
And then there are other waysof being a perfectionist.
You know that.
(06:58):
I don't think it's affected mylife.
Yeah, maybe you lot have alllearned how to clean a bathroom
better and go and make your bedand pick up all those bits off
the floor.
Right, I would argue thatactually the pack turns on me
because you're reasonablypassive, aggressive, all of you,
and it's just because you'relate.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Oh, well, we're throwing some digs there.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
But I think that perfectionism can be a really,
really, really heavy burden ifit's part of your processing on
a daily basis that you've got tobe perfect all the time.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's fear of failure, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
It's fear of being judged.
It's fear of not doing the verybest that you can.
And again, you don't have to bea clinical psychologist to
unravel that one.
Do you?
As a child?
What were you told?
What happened when thingsweren't wrong?
What were you seeing around you, you know?
Did you have a mother that wasperfectly dressed and organized
and had lists and everything wasperfect?
(07:52):
Yeah, because that's how theycontrolled their life can you
turn it off?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
it's not a case of a switch, I think you you probably
need.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well, first of all, you have to ascertain whether or
not it's challenging your dailylife.
I probably you know.
If somebody was saying to methat it was, I would be
suggesting they go and see aclinical psychologist and you
probably need some specific,very specialist learning of how
to dial it down and how tomanage it.
(08:18):
Bottom line is, you know, Ithink there are times in all of
our lives when we want somethingto be perfect yeah, yeah, like,
yeah, like weddings and stufflike that, we go perfect when
people get completely.
Yeah, you know they've losttheir minds about those sort of
prides, like brides in their ownbr.
Yeah, but it's and may I justsay, by the way, this isn't just
(08:40):
women.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Oh yeah, men as well.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
There are many, many, many men who also have it.
It's not a female bent in anyway, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
to be honest, it's the reason why I would never
film a wedding.
The risk factor in terms ofdelivery, in terms of
expectations, is far too high interms of delivery, in terms of
expectations, far too high interms of financial remuneration.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So yeah, You've gone down a completely different road
.
I get your point, you know whatI mean.
It's like what I'm trying to sayis that it's not a bad thing.
Right, there are times when weall have it.
We all overrev, wantingsomething to be perfect and have
control over it.
Can't be fish back and boshevery time, but it's when, can't
it?
But there are times when it'snot.
(09:26):
I hate using the word normal,but do you know what I mean?
You're overrevving to a pointwhere it's affecting your mental
health and your life energy,and it's certainly affecting the
people around you.
Yeah, but underlying you knowsomething it is.
It is usually stress and fearthat drives it.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Right, well, not the perfect episode, but pretty damn
close, and I'm quitecomfortable with that.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Oh you funny man.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Join us next time on Big Questions.
Short Answers with Sian Jacquetand me, andy.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
If you have any questions you want to ask,
please send them via the websitesiansjacquetcom.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and
share it with everyone you know.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
We really do appreciate you sharing 15
minutes with us.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And if you want to do a bit more learning, go on to
charles website charlesjackaycom.
There's a course on values tocreate life you truly love.
I did it and it really does dowhat it says on the can see you
next time.
And we're going to get this one absolutely perfect.
This is going to be the bestone of all.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Big Questions.
Short Answers.
I'm Sian.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
And I'm Andy Sian's husband asking the big life
questions.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
And possibly adding a little bit of unsolicited
advice.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Maybe this podcast is brought to you by San's
value-based online course.
Visit shanjackacom to find outmore.
Okay, the question of today isis being a perfectionist serving
you well?
I mean, obviously there'scertain things where being a
(00:42):
perfectionist is probably quiteimportant, like being a brain
surgeon.
I think you wouldn't just wantto go in there with a bit of oh,
she'll be all right, but interms of, we're not talking
about that, but we're talkingabout just life in general.
I think we all know some people.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
We've got a pattern here.
Now, as we're doing more ofthese, I need to ask you what do
you think a perfectionist is?
Well, as a character, character, a personality type.
We're not talking about exactlyas you say.
I'd like you to be aperfectionist if you're drawing,
as an engineer, bridges andyou're doing open heart surgery
on a two-year-old.
Yeah, I want you to be aperfectionist.
(01:18):
I want you to stay in that mostwell.
So what does it mean?
What made you ask the question?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I think that it's a little bit down to.
You know, there's people that Isuppose just are afraid of
things going wrong, whetherthat's to do like with a kid's
party or, you know, friendscoming over for dinner.
I think some of us are allfamiliar with various people who
(01:45):
you know, for reasons bestknown to them, they just want
everything to be perfect, andit's a kind of it feels like
quite a taut piece of materialcontrol, but they want to make
it perfect for everyone.
You know what I mean.
They want to make it perfectfor everyone.
You know what I mean.
They want to make it perfect,Hang on.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You're slightly dancing around to.
You know, a perfectionist canactually radiate those demands
to everybody else around them.
Okay, you know, be it in a home, family, friend situation or at
work, I'll share with you andanybody listening to this who's
worked with me.
There'll be some people who aregoing to laugh when I use this
(02:29):
phrase tippy toe.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
All right yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
There was a time when I had a disproportionate number
of clients that were in PR,marketing, that kind of media
activity, consultancy work, andit was fascinating to see the
over-representation ofperfectionists beating
themselves up because they'renot good enough.
(02:52):
Constantly judging, constantlyover-revving with the amount of
work they contribute or theamount of focus and effort they
put in something because itneeds to be perfect is a
personality.
It's when it becomes harmful toyou and it's like having a
little engine, an extra littleengine inside you that just
(03:15):
never stops.
More, more, better, better.
And I call them I used to callthem tippy toe girls to
themselves, to their faces, thatthey were on their tippy toes
all the time.
You're like ballerinas on blocks, but ballerinas gets on blocks
to do certain movements incertain dances, for certain
reasons.
Ballerinas are not on blocksall the time yeah, right.
Whereas the analogy I would sayto these people is that you
(03:38):
know you are like a ballerinawho is crushing your toes and
your feet and everything isbleeding, and there's no reason
why you've got to be up on theseblocks.
You, you can actually come downand be like the rest of us
human beings.
The issue is, where is the linein this?
Yeah, I mean, I think there aresome areas where we can all
over-ref and have perfectionism.
I actually think that stresstriggers a lot of perfectionist
(04:00):
behaviour and a lot of fear.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So if I look at my own life and I am being quite
serious now right as a familyunit, there have been many
occasions when the pack hasturned on me, the pack and said
what it's like yeah I'm sittingin my family a pack of rabid
dogs.
The pack has turned on mebecause I need the house to be
clean.
I need it done to that level,yeah, because we've got people
coming around, yeah, or becausewe've got visitors.
(04:32):
You know that kind of thing allright okay now going back to
cleaning well, the truth is, theperfectionism is the
perfectionism, and that behaviorand that need for everything to
be's because of a belief thathappened years ago.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
For me, it's about being judged.
For me, it's about creating thenicest environment I can for
people.
With what I have, it's alanguage of love for me.
Yes, I actually get enjoymentout of doing it right Now.
That's the other thing aboutperfectionists it's not always a
dark alley of negativity, butyou can actually feel an
(05:09):
incredible sense of achievementwhen you do it.
The problem is are you reachingsuccess in the way that you
want, or is it constantly movingfurther and further out of your
reach?
That is when perfectionismbecomes a problem.
And is it perfectionism thatyou have a literal control over,
(05:31):
or is it perfectionism thatyou're spilling out to other
people?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Well, that's, I think , where it becomes dangerous,
isn't it when it's spilling outto other people?
You're putting a whole lot ofstress on other people to meet
your requirements.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, but it's what's the belief behind those
requirements?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I mean, I think there's a whole load of science
and learning as to internalpressures, the judgments and, if
indeed you know, are youlooking at a genetic
predisposition towards it?
Are there environmental factors?
You know what I mean.
It can become a problem if it'saffecting your daily life.
I remember talking to somebodya few years ago who had been
(06:16):
assessed for ADHD as an adult,and that was one of the ways in
which their ADHD manifested wastheir need for perfectionism.
Everything had to be right okayand are we.
You know, when doesperfectionism become compulsive,
obsessional behavior?
there are some right you knowI'm not a clinical psychologist.
(06:38):
It's not for me to go into that.
But what I'm saying is thatperfectionism can be an
acceptable word to describe very, very, very challenging
behaviour that, for the personwho's displaying it and for
people around it, can be really,really hard.
And then there are other waysof being a perfectionist.
You know that.
(06:58):
I don't think it's affected mylife.
Yeah, maybe you lot have alllearned how to clean a bathroom
better and go and make your bedand pick up all those bits off
the floor.
Right, I would argue thatactually the pack turns on me
because you're reasonablypassive, aggressive, all of you,
and it's just because you'relate.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Oh, well, we're throwing some digs there.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
But I think that perfectionism can be a really,
really, really heavy burden ifit's part of your processing on
a daily basis that you've got tobe perfect all the time.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's fear of failure, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
It's fear of being judged.
It's fear of not doing the verybest that you can.
And again, you don't have to bea clinical psychologist to
unravel that one.
Do you?
As a child?
What were you told?
What happened when thingsweren't wrong?
What were you seeing around you, you know?
Did you have a mother that wasperfectly dressed and organized
and had lists and everything wasperfect?
(07:52):
Yeah, because that's how theycontrolled their life can you
turn it off?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
it's not a case of a switch, I think you you probably
need.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well, first of all, you have to ascertain whether or
not it's challenging your dailylife.
I probably you know.
If somebody was saying to methat it was, I would be
suggesting they go and see aclinical psychologist and you
probably need some specific,very specialist learning of how
to dial it down and how tomanage it.
(08:18):
Bottom line is, you know, Ithink there are times in all of
our lives when we want somethingto be perfect yeah, yeah, like,
yeah, like weddings and stufflike that, we go perfect when
people get completely.
Yeah, you know they've losttheir minds about those sort of
prides, like brides in their ownbr.
Yeah, but it's and may I justsay, by the way, this isn't just
(08:40):
women.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Oh yeah, men as well.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
There are many, many, many men who also have it.
It's not a female bent in anyway, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
to be honest, it's the reason why I would never
film a wedding.
The risk factor in terms ofdelivery, in terms of
expectations, is far too high interms of delivery, in terms of
expectations, far too high interms of financial remuneration.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So yeah, You've gone down a completely different road
.
I get your point, you know whatI mean.
It's like what I'm trying to sayis that it's not a bad thing.
Right, there are times when weall have it.
We all overrev, wantingsomething to be perfect and have
control over it.
Can't be fish back and boshevery time, but it's when, can't
it?
But there are times when it'snot.
(09:26):
I hate using the word normal,but do you know what I mean?
You're overrevving to a pointwhere it's affecting your mental
health and your life energy,and it's certainly affecting the
people around you.
Yeah, but underlying you knowsomething it is.
It is usually stress and fearthat drives it.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Right, well, not the perfect episode, but pretty damn
close, and I'm quitecomfortable with that.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Oh you funny man.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Join us next time on Big Questions.
Short Answers with Sian Jacquetand me, andy.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
If you have any questions you want to ask,
please send them via the websitesiansjacquetcom.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and
share it with everyone you know.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
We really do appreciate you sharing 15
minutes with us.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And if you want to do a bit more learning, go on to
charles website charlesjackaycom.
There's a course on values tocreate life you truly love.
I did it and it really does dowhat it says on the can see you
next time.
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