July 2, 2024 • 11 mins
Ever wondered why pronouns matter so much? Prepare to challenge your perspectives as Sian and Andy dive into the nuanced conversation of pronouns and personal identity on Big Questions, Short Answers. Today, we unpack the generational views that shape our understanding of pronouns and why respecting them is more than just a trend—it's a crucial step toward recognizing each individual's right to self-identify. Andy's genuine curiosity and Sian's insightful wisdom guide us through this complex terrain, aiming to foster empathy and open-mindedness in an evolving world.
Join us as we dissect the societal resistance to change and explore the significant impact proper pronoun usage has on personal well-being and societal progress. This episode is not just about understanding the "what" but delving into the "why," encouraging listeners to embrace a broader, more inclusive perspective on identity. Whether you're struggling to grasp the concept or seeking to deepen your understanding, this candid discussion is a valuable listen for anyone invested in the dynamics of identity and inclusion.
For more content, check out Sian's website sianjaquet.com, and her online course: Create The Life You Truly Love.
www.sianjaquet.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andy (00:00):
Okay, mike, getting into trouble over this one.
Sian (00:06):
Welcome to Big Questions.
Short Answers.
I'm Sian.
Andy (00:10):
And I'm Andy Sian's husband asking the big life
questions.
Sian (00:14):
And possibly adding a little bit of unsolicited advice
.
Andy (00:17):
Maybe this podcast is brought to you by Sian's
value-based online course.
Visit sianjackeycom to find outmore.
I'm going to kick this one offand sort of just judge my words
here.
I'm of a certain generation andone of the things that I don't
know whether it's a bugbear orwhatever, but this pronoun stuff
(00:41):
that's going on, you know whereyou just address somebody as
either a they, them, us,whatever.
I have heard you talk about itand I think that, um well,
you've got some good views.
I'm just sort of wanting tokind of get a bit more
understanding about it, why it'sso important, because I know
(01:02):
millennials and everyone elsethinks it's so important.
Sian (01:04):
I just want to get a judgment from you of why you
think it's so important, why wedo it well you know, without
getting into some kind ofnightmare of trying to explain
it, I'm not pretending that Iactually understand it all.
What I am saying is that,fundamentally, I have a core
belief that every individualshould be allowed to be who they
(01:25):
choose to be.
My observation throughout mylife is that people don't like
change.
They don't like anything thatisn't completely identifiable by
their life experience and bytheir values.
There is a narrative which Ihave been dragged into on
several occasions, a narrativewhich I have been dragged into
(01:47):
on several occasions.
Then, these people, right, whowant to be referred to in this
way right, we didn't have any ofthis in the world before.
Youngsters are just jumping onbandwagons and all of this,
right, and you're looking at meand your eyes are getting bigger
thinking oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,that's what I think.
At me, and your eyes aregetting bigger thinking oh, yeah
(02:07):
, yeah, yeah, that's what Ithink.
I would respectfully suggestthat all of this has and and
everybody's, every human being'sdifference has always been
there, and I think all I know isfrom my experience, that there
is an undeniable amount ofsuffering, and serious lifelong
(02:29):
suffering of not being able tocelebrate and be identified in
the way in which you choose tobe yeah, but I sort of think to
myself well, yeah, that's allwell and good, I'm sorry for
suffering, but it's like, why issuch a small percentage of
people you know impacting mylife and my?
(02:50):
why are they impacting your life?
Here we go, here we go, here wego, here we go.
It's like how is it impactingyour life?
Andy (02:57):
well, I, I have to make a decision on linkedin as whether
I'm referred to as a he or sheor something.
Sian (03:03):
Oh, how odd for you, I know she is.
Well, again, I'm going to say toyou what I've said.
On boards, you know people whoare doing marketing for
companies and there's bigdebates, all of this, and I just
sit there smiling.
What harm is it for you to makea statement that I actually
have an open heart and I wouldadvocate for anybody to be who
(03:29):
and what they want to be.
Now, after 30-odd years, ifyou're going to sit here and
tell me that suddenly you'regoing to disclose to me
discriminatory views and beliefs, right, we'll be handing out
off to a legal office.
Now, do you see what I mean?
You're doing, what they do.
(03:50):
That's the term you use.
I hate that.
Yeah, why make it difficult?
Well, I suppose it's only.
Why is it such a big issue inyour head?
It's not.
Andy (03:59):
It's not a big issue, it's just a case of trying to Big
enough for you to talk about it.
I suppose understand where weare in the world in terms of all
bets are off.
Sian (04:09):
You can have a voice.
Digital platforms, changes inlaw, changes in social attitudes
and, yes, there are a spectrum,there are ideas and behaviours
and fighting for individualrights that are right out there,
right, right out there on theedge of oh wow, that's a bit
(04:33):
difficult to get my head round.
Yeah, but at the end of the dayand I'm not saying this to be
controversial, I'm just sayingit because this is actually what
I believe For quite a fewhundred years now, if not
thousands, but certainly a fewhundred years faith, organised
faith has organised and told uswhat's right, what's wrong, how
(04:56):
you should be, how you shouldn'tbe, and it's crock, an absolute
crock.
Now are there a wholegeneration of young people at
the moment who, from someperspectives, would present as
what the hell is going on here?
Why suddenly have we got allthese gender-fluid kids, which
we didn't have before?
(05:16):
My argument is that it's allpart of the journey of finding
out who you are, but because ofthe world we live in now you're
actually able to ask questions,you're actually able to be
different, you're actually ableto educate yourself and find out
.
Is it all as you and I, asolder people would want it to be
(05:38):
.
I don't know.
Andy (05:40):
It adds a layer of complexity, doesn't it that you
think to yourself do you need it?
Sian (05:47):
Well, you don't need to choose, do you?
Because you've decided who andwhat you are.
Yeah, you're brought up in aworld.
I mean, as I have said to youvery often, we have three
children.
Secretly, I was open to one ofany flavour of any human being
who presented to us Absolutelyfine, because I actually, you
(06:07):
know, as you know, I haveexperience of knowing people who
have, for their entire lifetime, literally had to hide who and
what they were, and it is one of, right up there, the most
painful things I've ever seenand shared with any human being
that they were too frightened tobe who they were.
(06:27):
There is a part of me, andy I'mnot sitting here in some pious,
you know fold my arms.
I'm more worldly than you are.
That's not what this is about.
There are times when my headspins with sorry, what that's
changed?
Oh, okay, right.
When my head spins with sorry,what, what that's changed?
Oh, okay, right.
And even I sometimes can feellike whoa, whoa, whoa.
(06:48):
This is all a bit much for meto get my head around, but at
the end of the day, what's theproblem here?
Andy (06:55):
um, well, is it?
Well there's, I suppose.
Is it that there's twoquestions here?
A, how do you open your mind toactually just roll with it?
Sian (07:07):
You create a belief or you hold on to the belief which,
again, I just said to you.
Now my understanding is and Isay it with 30 odd years I've
known you right Is that yourview is inclusive, that anybody
can roll like they want, as longas they don't dictate that to
somebody else, or that you areforcing somebody, against their
(07:29):
will, for whatever reason, to beor behave or to identify or
whatever.
I mean, it's just very basicstuff.
And so the world's changed,it's evolved.
Andy (07:42):
I suppose I just wondered if it just adds a layer of, you
know, complexity for kids, whichwhich they don't really need,
you know don't they?
They don't need to know whothey are well because it does
your editing yeah, I don't know,I don't see what I'm saying.
Sian (08:00):
Yes, I mean, what I'm actually hearing you say is it
is a bias.
You know you really areplanting yourself in that sense
of bias.
Actually, this is the world Iknow, this is the world I've
lived in.
I can get my head around that.
Don't go changing things for mebecause I don't like it.
So therefore, I will make ajudgment, a negative judgment,
(08:21):
about it.
Yeah, I mean, I've readarticles that have literally
said well, if you take thepercentage numbers and the way
it's growing and this, that andthe other, then we're never
going to have anybody topropagate and continue humanity.
Well, maybe that ain't such abloody bad idea.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I mean, it's all bloodynonsense.
The most valuable andsignificant conversation I had
(08:45):
was with somebody who was aneducator, right, and who is a
leader in a very, verywell-known educational
establishment, and this wasabout, I don't know must have
been five, eight years ago, whenthe narrative of all of this
starting yes, and it was thefirst kind of wave of gender
(09:08):
neutral toilets, right, yeah,and yeah, the bigotry that came
out of the corners and theattitude I remember sitting in
front of him and I'm saying tohim so you know, you're running
a school.
How are you going to deal withthis?
He just looked at me and saidI've got much more important
things to be focusing on, as towhat picture I'll put on doors
(09:30):
and if it means somebody feelssafe and somebody feels
comfortable and somebody,whoever, whatever then can we
just get over it and startfocusing on things that are much
more important?
That is the belief that I'veheld on to Right.
We do have to protect youngpeople, the world they live in.
They are bombarded and that isthe word bombarded with opinions
(09:56):
, criticisms, the latest way,the this, that and the other.
And they all want to belong,they all want to identify, they
all want to be heard, andrightly so, right, and it's
exploded in a way that you and Ican't understand.
Yeah, and we can't.
It doesn't matter how modernand clever we think we are.
So the bottom line is identifyas you want, be who you need to
(10:19):
be to make yourself feel safe.
The rest of us have aresponsibility.
When I say the rest of us, Imean people who are catching up
and people who are getting theirhead around this.
To just have an open mind,right, and don't have an open
mind at your peril, becausethere will be a child, a
grandchild, a niece, a nephew, asomebody living next door, a
(10:40):
somebody at work, a somebody inthe church, a somebody, somebody
.
Yeah Right, so start openingyour mind to it.
Thanks very much.
We'll leave it there.
You could say I was a bit madat you then.
Andy (10:53):
Join us next time on Big Questions.
Short Answers with Sian Jacquetand me, Andy.
Sian (10:59):
If you have any questions you want to ask, please send
them via the websitesiansjacquetcom.
Andy (11:05):
If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and
share it with everyone you know.
Sian (11:10):
We really do appreciate you sharing 15 minutes with us.
Andy (11:13):
And if you want to do a bit more learning, go on to
Charles' websitecharlesjacquetcom.
There's a course on values tocreate life you truly love.
I did it and it really does dowhat it says on the can.
Sian (11:25):
See you next time.
Okay, mike, getting into trouble over this one.
Sian (00:06):
Welcome to Big Questions.
Short Answers.
I'm Sian.
Andy (00:10):
And I'm Andy Sian's husband asking the big life
questions.
Sian (00:14):
And possibly adding a little bit of unsolicited advice
.
Andy (00:17):
Maybe this podcast is brought to you by Sian's
value-based online course.
Visit sianjackeycom to find outmore.
I'm going to kick this one offand sort of just judge my words
here.
I'm of a certain generation andone of the things that I don't
know whether it's a bugbear orwhatever, but this pronoun stuff
(00:41):
that's going on, you know whereyou just address somebody as
either a they, them, us,whatever.
I have heard you talk about itand I think that, um well,
you've got some good views.
I'm just sort of wanting tokind of get a bit more
understanding about it, why it'sso important, because I know
(01:02):
millennials and everyone elsethinks it's so important.
Sian (01:04):
I just want to get a judgment from you of why you
think it's so important, why wedo it well you know, without
getting into some kind ofnightmare of trying to explain
it, I'm not pretending that Iactually understand it all.
What I am saying is that,fundamentally, I have a core
belief that every individualshould be allowed to be who they
(01:25):
choose to be.
My observation throughout mylife is that people don't like
change.
They don't like anything thatisn't completely identifiable by
their life experience and bytheir values.
There is a narrative which Ihave been dragged into on
several occasions, a narrativewhich I have been dragged into
(01:47):
on several occasions.
Then, these people, right, whowant to be referred to in this
way right, we didn't have any ofthis in the world before.
Youngsters are just jumping onbandwagons and all of this,
right, and you're looking at meand your eyes are getting bigger
thinking oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,that's what I think.
At me, and your eyes aregetting bigger thinking oh, yeah
(02:07):
, yeah, yeah, that's what Ithink.
I would respectfully suggestthat all of this has and and
everybody's, every human being'sdifference has always been
there, and I think all I know isfrom my experience, that there
is an undeniable amount ofsuffering, and serious lifelong
(02:29):
suffering of not being able tocelebrate and be identified in
the way in which you choose tobe yeah, but I sort of think to
myself well, yeah, that's allwell and good, I'm sorry for
suffering, but it's like, why issuch a small percentage of
people you know impacting mylife and my?
(02:50):
why are they impacting your life?
Here we go, here we go, here wego, here we go.
It's like how is it impactingyour life?
Andy (02:57):
well, I, I have to make a decision on linkedin as whether
I'm referred to as a he or sheor something.
Sian (03:03):
Oh, how odd for you, I know she is.
Well, again, I'm going to say toyou what I've said.
On boards, you know people whoare doing marketing for
companies and there's bigdebates, all of this, and I just
sit there smiling.
What harm is it for you to makea statement that I actually
have an open heart and I wouldadvocate for anybody to be who
(03:29):
and what they want to be.
Now, after 30-odd years, ifyou're going to sit here and
tell me that suddenly you'regoing to disclose to me
discriminatory views and beliefs, right, we'll be handing out
off to a legal office.
Now, do you see what I mean?
You're doing, what they do.
(03:50):
That's the term you use.
I hate that.
Yeah, why make it difficult?
Well, I suppose it's only.
Why is it such a big issue inyour head?
It's not.
Andy (03:59):
It's not a big issue, it's just a case of trying to Big
enough for you to talk about it.
I suppose understand where weare in the world in terms of all
bets are off.
Sian (04:09):
You can have a voice.
Digital platforms, changes inlaw, changes in social attitudes
and, yes, there are a spectrum,there are ideas and behaviours
and fighting for individualrights that are right out there,
right, right out there on theedge of oh wow, that's a bit
(04:33):
difficult to get my head round.
Yeah, but at the end of the dayand I'm not saying this to be
controversial, I'm just sayingit because this is actually what
I believe For quite a fewhundred years now, if not
thousands, but certainly a fewhundred years faith, organised
faith has organised and told uswhat's right, what's wrong, how
(04:56):
you should be, how you shouldn'tbe, and it's crock, an absolute
crock.
Now are there a wholegeneration of young people at
the moment who, from someperspectives, would present as
what the hell is going on here?
Why suddenly have we got allthese gender-fluid kids, which
we didn't have before?
(05:16):
My argument is that it's allpart of the journey of finding
out who you are, but because ofthe world we live in now you're
actually able to ask questions,you're actually able to be
different, you're actually ableto educate yourself and find out
.
Is it all as you and I, asolder people would want it to be
(05:38):
.
I don't know.
Andy (05:40):
It adds a layer of complexity, doesn't it that you
think to yourself do you need it?
Sian (05:47):
Well, you don't need to choose, do you?
Because you've decided who andwhat you are.
Yeah, you're brought up in aworld.
I mean, as I have said to youvery often, we have three
children.
Secretly, I was open to one ofany flavour of any human being
who presented to us Absolutelyfine, because I actually, you
(06:07):
know, as you know, I haveexperience of knowing people who
have, for their entire lifetime, literally had to hide who and
what they were, and it is one of, right up there, the most
painful things I've ever seenand shared with any human being
that they were too frightened tobe who they were.
(06:27):
There is a part of me, andy I'mnot sitting here in some pious,
you know fold my arms.
I'm more worldly than you are.
That's not what this is about.
There are times when my headspins with sorry, what that's
changed?
Oh, okay, right.
When my head spins with sorry,what, what that's changed?
Oh, okay, right.
And even I sometimes can feellike whoa, whoa, whoa.
(06:48):
This is all a bit much for meto get my head around, but at
the end of the day, what's theproblem here?
Andy (06:55):
um, well, is it?
Well there's, I suppose.
Is it that there's twoquestions here?
A, how do you open your mind toactually just roll with it?
Sian (07:07):
You create a belief or you hold on to the belief which,
again, I just said to you.
Now my understanding is and Isay it with 30 odd years I've
known you right Is that yourview is inclusive, that anybody
can roll like they want, as longas they don't dictate that to
somebody else, or that you areforcing somebody, against their
(07:29):
will, for whatever reason, to beor behave or to identify or
whatever.
I mean, it's just very basicstuff.
And so the world's changed,it's evolved.
Andy (07:42):
I suppose I just wondered if it just adds a layer of, you
know, complexity for kids, whichwhich they don't really need,
you know don't they?
They don't need to know whothey are well because it does
your editing yeah, I don't know,I don't see what I'm saying.
Sian (08:00):
Yes, I mean, what I'm actually hearing you say is it
is a bias.
You know you really areplanting yourself in that sense
of bias.
Actually, this is the world Iknow, this is the world I've
lived in.
I can get my head around that.
Don't go changing things for mebecause I don't like it.
So therefore, I will make ajudgment, a negative judgment,
(08:21):
about it.
Yeah, I mean, I've readarticles that have literally
said well, if you take thepercentage numbers and the way
it's growing and this, that andthe other, then we're never
going to have anybody topropagate and continue humanity.
Well, maybe that ain't such abloody bad idea.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I mean, it's all bloodynonsense.
The most valuable andsignificant conversation I had
(08:45):
was with somebody who was aneducator, right, and who is a
leader in a very, verywell-known educational
establishment, and this wasabout, I don't know must have
been five, eight years ago, whenthe narrative of all of this
starting yes, and it was thefirst kind of wave of gender
(09:08):
neutral toilets, right, yeah,and yeah, the bigotry that came
out of the corners and theattitude I remember sitting in
front of him and I'm saying tohim so you know, you're running
a school.
How are you going to deal withthis?
He just looked at me and saidI've got much more important
things to be focusing on, as towhat picture I'll put on doors
(09:30):
and if it means somebody feelssafe and somebody feels
comfortable and somebody,whoever, whatever then can we
just get over it and startfocusing on things that are much
more important?
That is the belief that I'veheld on to Right.
We do have to protect youngpeople, the world they live in.
They are bombarded and that isthe word bombarded with opinions
(09:56):
, criticisms, the latest way,the this, that and the other.
And they all want to belong,they all want to identify, they
all want to be heard, andrightly so, right, and it's
exploded in a way that you and Ican't understand.
Yeah, and we can't.
It doesn't matter how modernand clever we think we are.
So the bottom line is identifyas you want, be who you need to
(10:19):
be to make yourself feel safe.
The rest of us have aresponsibility.
When I say the rest of us, Imean people who are catching up
and people who are getting theirhead around this.
To just have an open mind,right, and don't have an open
mind at your peril, becausethere will be a child, a
grandchild, a niece, a nephew, asomebody living next door, a
(10:40):
somebody at work, a somebody inthe church, a somebody, somebody
.
Yeah Right, so start openingyour mind to it.
Thanks very much.
We'll leave it there.
You could say I was a bit madat you then.
Andy (10:53):
Join us next time on Big Questions.
Short Answers with Sian Jacquetand me, Andy.
Sian (10:59):
If you have any questions you want to ask, please send
them via the websitesiansjacquetcom.
Andy (11:05):
If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and
share it with everyone you know.
Sian (11:10):
We really do appreciate you sharing 15 minutes with us.
Andy (11:13):
And if you want to do a bit more learning, go on to
Charles' websitecharlesjacquetcom.
There's a course on values tocreate life you truly love.
I did it and it really does dowhat it says on the can.
Sian (11:25):
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.