Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, welcome to Big
Sexy Chat.
I'm Crystal, I'm Murph.
We're just two rad fattiessitting around chewing the fat
Twice a month.
We'll be chatting about currentevents hot topics sex, sex toys
, fat politics, fat communitycannabis, cbd you name it.
We're going to talk about it.
We are very excited to have youa part of our community.
(00:25):
Welcome and enjoy.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hi, welcome to Big
Sexy Chat.
My name's Crystal and I'm herewith my fabulous co-host, Merv
Sayimer.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Wait, you're not
Crystal, oh.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I'm not.
No, I'm not.
I'm Asher Lee, you're right.
You're right, I'm not Crystal.
Crystal is out today becauseshe's got some stuff she's got
to deal with, so you and I aregoing to play.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh, that's dangerous.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
This never worked out
well for the audience.
They're going to love it.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It's fantastic.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This is a very
serious episode.
Yes, we're very serious people,murph.
Incredibly serious, veryserious.
I'm probably the most serious,the mostest At this age.
I just don't think that I wouldcut them to a life less than
serious.
(01:25):
I can't park her posy, I can'tdo it.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Oh, I can do the um.
Oh, what is it?
She says Piper.
Oh sorry, no, piper, no, hurry,the best booty oh it's so good,
all right.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So welcome to Big
Sexy Chats, hey Ashley.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thanks for filling in
for Crystal.
I know that there's a lot goingon, but we're helping out and
always you know, always there tolend an ear and we get that
that kind of stuff happens andthe great thing is that we are a
trio and can step in and helpthe others out when other
stuff's happening.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
That's what's great
about frepples right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Can't be everything
for everybody.
It's fine.
I got you, you've got me, shegot we.
It's cool, all good.
So today we are going to talkabout a couple things.
Um one, I want to talk abouttalk that you gave.
I want to talk about your talk,talk about your talk, and then
I know there's some stuff youwanted to talk about yeah, which
(02:44):
was uh, we want to talk abouthuddle college I was thinking,
cuddling and um the process ofall of that.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think you know if
we can go into your coaching,
that would be really cool, okay,okay and then, uh, another cool
thing is the pacificnorthwest-friendly medical
directory that's being created.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
There's lots of
things to talk about.
You can find things.
They're very serious actually.
This is just.
We're going to take veryserious things and make them not
so serious.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
The existential
barrier has set in.
So right now we're just goingto delulu and make it churlulu,
right, absolutely, right,absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
There's only so much,
there's only so much weight I
couldn't hold my bones and tiredReal I need, I need some silly,
because there's just too muchright now.
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So be silly with her.
Which, exactly which one, youwant to start with first?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
How about?
You go, I go, you go.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Okay, that sounds
good.
Qualified health center thatcovers a large portion of the
Bay Area and a little bit intoSacramento.
Services for medical,behavioral health, all low
(04:18):
income.
And they have just joinedbasically as a large, maybe
became a larger company.
Sorry, because they joinedforces.
Basically they were twodifferent federally qualified
health centers and they becameone, and that's happening a lot
right now because health care isconsolidating.
Has it passed?
(04:38):
Yeah, and that's like what'shappening.
That's so terrible so, butthey're both two great
organizations, they're workingthings out.
That's so terrible so, butthey're both two great
organizations, they're workingthings out.
Everything's been great.
So they asked me to come andspeak to their staff in their
series on humility for differentcultural things.
(04:58):
So, cultural humility seriescome talk about your experience,
talk a topic, whatever it maybe.
So I was invited to come speakabout fat liberation that's
crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
So the fact that you
had, first of all, that you got
invited to speak at this is socool.
Congratulations thank you but,then like but then the fact that
you managed to sneak fatliberation in this I love that's
real good.
So like, how Did you talk tothem about it ahead of time?
Like, how did you?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So this came about
because I'm in a leadership
cohort right now and I becamereally good friends and she's in
my local cohort because we'rein the same region and she has a
job very similar to mine and soshe basically was going with me
on a trip down to the seminarand I was fat shamed on an
(05:58):
airline and she got to see thatprocess happen and she asked me
about it and so it kind ofbecame this discussion.
Well, then on the way back ithappened again and she was just
like we got to have this talklike what is happening, and I
was like this is a completelynormal experience for someone
(06:22):
that looks like me.
And so we had this reallyfantastic conversation on the
plane ride home about fatliberation.
And so she was like would yoube willing to come and talk to
our organization about yourexperience and teach on the
topic basically of what is itand how do you experience and
(06:44):
how do you recognize it and howdo you then address it in a
healthcare setting as well asjust as like a helper in the
community of fatness?
So that was really my kind of101 on fat liberation and my
personal experience my kind of101 on fat liberation and my
(07:08):
personal experience.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
That's amazing.
Did a lot come out of it?
I mean, I know that you've hadother talks in leadership type
of positions before.
That really went well for you.
How did this one go?
Because I don't know that.
I've heard how they took it.
Because I know that can be very.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah, took it because
I know that can be, that can be
very.
Yeah, um, it was.
You know it was a during a um,a time where people can take a
break, you know.
So, um, I don't know, it wasn'ta mandatory training for the
entire staff, but I think therewas like 50 people there, um,
which was pretty significant.
40 to 50 people, um, I think,off and on some people kind of
(07:44):
dipped out and that sort ofthing that always happens.
So that was pretty exciting.
But a lot of good conversation.
In the comments, you know, gaveexamples, so I, you know, I
asked for them to participateand they shared their own
personal examples.
We talked about what theyexperienced in the workplace and
(08:06):
what are kind of like the keycomponents to addressing that,
and a lot of them were like Ididn't even realize that I said
those types of things.
Somebody wrote, you know, Ireally appreciate you having
this conversation because it'sone that I've experienced at
this organization.
It's one that I've experiencedat this organization and, you
(08:28):
know, I'm really grateful thatthis organization would even
address this topic as a culturalhumility issue.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I don't think that a
lot of people realize how
invasive it is and how much it'sjust, it's everywhere, it's not
I mean the thing thing likeit's with anything else, right.
A lot of people in societydidn't realize that there are
certain words we don't say until, all of a sudden, people
brought attention to maybe weshouldn't say those words and
(08:55):
maybe we shouldn't be thinkingthose things and maybe like,
until we challenge those norms,right, like nobody even thinks
about it, it's just acceptedbecause that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, it's not.
It's not their experience tohave that kind of consistent
discrimination.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, which I mean
great Congratulations.
I'm glad you don't have to dealwith it all the time, but for
those who do, I think the factthat you're bringing your, the
fact that you've gotten theopportunity to help bring light
to some of this and be such avoice in the shadows of this, is
(09:33):
such a cool thing, because noone else you know, like when
else would it have happened?
Maybe somebody would have saidsomething, and I know that there
are areas where more and morepeople are starting to speak up
and speak out about it.
It's hard and there's a lot ofshame and there's stigma and
there's, you know, I mean it'sstill and it's everywhere, in
(09:53):
every profession, acrosseverywhere.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah, and the
interesting thing is that when
people don't feel like, oh, Ididn't experience that, you know
it's like, that's fine, youdon't have to experience it, but
you need to acknowledge thatthat has happened for somebody
else and that that is theirexperience of it.
And a lot, of, a lot of thatkind of goes back to impact
(10:18):
versus intent.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, like doesn't
matter, if you didn't intend to
do something, you still createdan impact and you have to
acknowledge that that hashappened yeah, well, and it's
hard, you know, nobody wants tobe in trouble, nobody likes
feeling like they did somethingwrong, and owning up to that
really is such a basis forgrowth and understanding of not
(10:44):
just other people but ourselves.
Speaking of like intent and allof that, this made me wonder,
because I mean, I knowtherapists that I've interacted
with and I know things that Iwish that therapists would do
(11:06):
differently, but I also haven'texperienced a ton of it
professionally.
What do you think that likeother?
Like, if you could talk toevery therapist in the country,
what would you want them to knowabout fat liberation and what
would you want them to dodifferently?
Like in all of these things,like in all of these talks,
what's the thing that you'd wantthem to do?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
naturally, how much
time do we have?
I would say, like, the keythings that I would want them to
take away is that everybody'sbody should just be accepted
Like it.
We need to make thingsaccessible to everyone, and why
(11:51):
are we resisting that?
And if you are resisting that,I really want you to think about
that, because what does itmatter?
Like I, me, existing should notimpact you.
Existing, you know, in any sortof way related to my size or
your size.
So that's what I want them to,like, really impart on their
(12:12):
clientele is that everybody hasworth to.
You know, perpetuate this ideaof like, oh well, you're keeping
your schedule, that's great.
You're, you know, exercising,you know kind of a lot, but not
really addressing the topic.
Or, you know, maybe, listeningto somebody talk down about
(12:42):
their body in session and notstopping the session and
addressing it.
There's a lot of things that,especially some of the older
therapists you know they've gonethrough diet culture they say
and do things that are not sogreat.
So I was thinking about that.
I was thinking about religiouscounselors, like those folks,
you know, look at things a lotdifferently too, and so it's
it's hard to say, like, theseare the things that the
(13:05):
therapists really need to takeaway about fat liberation,
because it's like a human right,like we should all be able to
just exist.
That part is like a long windedlike, but that's really what I
want to impart.
Like there's little things,there's nuanced things, but
that's the thing.
Pay attention to the fact thateverybody deserves to have a
(13:27):
body yeah well, and exist intheir body as they are.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And sure, it's okay
if people want to improve, but
that doesn't have to look thesame for everybody and
improvement doesn't have to meana smaller body.
Improvement can mean loving thebody you're in understanding
the body, you're in acceptingthe body you're in.
I mean a lot of right we all.
(13:55):
It takes so much.
There is.
The world is heavy, right.
There is so much going on allthe time right now, and we have.
There are so many.
First of all, there are so manypeople to hate.
Already we have to hateourselves too.
It's just like too much.
(14:15):
It's too much, but like it'sjust too much.
Like it's like we're, we'retold to do all these things
right.
We have to love ourselves butwork on ourselves constantly.
We have to accept ourselves,but ourselves are never really
great enough.
You know, I mean there's,there's always somebody who
(14:36):
thinks that our body is too big,too small too, this too, that
too short, too fat too, whateveryour face isn't isn't right.
Your lips aren't perfect, yourboobs aren't big enough, your
ass isn't round enough, yourthighs are too big.
Oh, my God, your feet don'ttouch.
Oh, my God, your arm jiggles,big, round belly.
I mean, it's just constant.
(14:57):
There's always this constantnoise and we all have bodies.
They don't have to be perfectbodies.
They don't have to be perfect.
They don't have to be anythingother than exactly what they are
.
I hate.
I hate that we can't.
Just, we have spent so muchtime and so much money and so
much energy trying to fixsomething that isn't even broken
(15:20):
yeah, but we're told it and webuy the message and we've seen
what buying the message does.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
It just it literally
like these are the things that
are keeping you from reallybeing able to move forward, and
that's what I would want toimpart upon therapists is like
you just have to accept that allbodies are bodies and everyone
deserves to feel neutral abouttheir body, because it shouldn't
be this standard of like thisor that, or you got to do this
(15:52):
or what.
It's whatever you have andwhatever you want to do with it,
right.
So it's just like you're notgoing to move further in any
sort of real discussion aboutbodies or weight or any of the
diet, culturally, wellness,aging, you know all the things
sagging, you know it's like fuck.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Well, and how much
more effort, how much more
energy would we have to work onI don't know Problems of the
world If we weren't so focusedon that shit all the time?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And that messaging
wasn't brought up like literally
force fed to you your entirelife.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Right, I can't tell
you how many times I've thought
about how different life likelike my kids, right, they, I
mean sure they've still, youknow, they've had to go through
identity things and figuring outwho they are and body
dysmorphia and different thingsthat they've had to work through
, but it hasn't been this likeall encompassing thing.
(16:55):
Their size hasn't mattered forthem.
Their like, their looks haven'tentirely mattered for them
beyond their own preferences andthey get to like focus on other
things.
But for me, I remember growingup like my body was a big issue,
though, like always my wholelife.
Up until a certain point it waslike what I looked like, who I
(17:18):
was going to marry, like mywhole life was about whether I
could get a guy.
So I never had space to think,oh my God, I could do something,
I could be something other thana fucking wife, a mom.
That wasn't an option for mewhen I was younger and like I
didn't have the space for that.
(17:39):
But if we got to grow upthinking we can look however we
fucking want to look, our bodiesare going to be what they're
ever going to be.
We can do whatever we want todo.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
We can have the power
to empower and we can make a
fucking difference right, buthe's too stuck in it and yeah it
, it's a snake eating its owntail.
I mean, really, it's that'swhat it is, and when you can
step away and recognize that,that's, that's invaluable.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, and look at
that, you are actually getting
to help people think about thisstuff.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, like people who
wouldn't normally.
And that's why I was so nervousto do it, Cause it was just like
this topic means so much to me,Like you could talk to me about
behavioral health in Californiaand I'd just be able to be like
and probably sound like anexpert and you know like.
But this I was like, this isreally important.
(18:39):
What messaging can I get acrossthat is going to resonate with
these people so that they get itand, even if they don't accept
it, that they now have heard itand recognize that it is a
problem and that it is somethingthat needs to be looked at, as
dealing with discrimination, foranti-fatness is unacceptable,
(19:00):
especially in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Yeah, I hope that you
get to have more talks like
that, especially where you'redoing a thing where you're
really making them question theway that they see something and
the way that other people seesomething.
Because, like, I think everyoneneeds the practice of empathy
and everyone needs the practiceof perspective.
You know, like, if, if we grewup like they do in what
greenland I think they haveempathy classes If we grew up
(19:33):
like they, do in Greenland.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I think they have
empathy classes.
How different would our mentalhealth be in this country?
And our mental health providers?
Even on my feed and um, it wasabout this person saying that I
had a sex dream about mytherapist and I told them and I
got fired from therapy and I waslike what?
So then?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I like.
Okay, first of all, sex dreamsdon't actually mean you want to
have sex with a person like that.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Shouldn't make that
uncomfortable, right, but
especially a therapist.
It should not make a therapistuncomfortable.
That is really like it's reallynot uncommon.
That's weird.
It's clinical abandonment, likeyou can't just fire a patient
because they said like thatthey're not threatening your
(20:20):
life.
And the person said Iimmediately like once you read
the actual like story, it's like, oh my gosh, like this person
was like I, I swear I don't havefeelings for you and that it's
just it happened.
And I was.
I usually tell you about mydreams and like I didn't think
this would be a big deal and yousaid I could tell you anything.
And yeah, I was just like, oh,this poor person like awful, I
(20:44):
can.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Actually I have a
best friend who is very much
that way, like he has crazydreams and a therapist, and I
can totally imagine that exactthing happening for him.
And if he told me that I wouldgo to the therapist myself and I
would totally mama bear thesituation and be like, listen,
linda, we need to have a littlebit of a conversation.
You can't just abandon yourclients.
(21:05):
Right, it was dream.
If you need help decipheringwhat that means and
understanding what it means ifyour client has a dream like
that, you and I can have aconversation.
Maybe you need a therapist.
Yeah, I was gonna.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I was gonna say you
don't need to be a therapist.
Like plain and simple, so weird.
I know that I just took us offon a crazy tangent, but sorry
about that.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
No, you're totally
fine.
You know what?
I hear all kinds of things LikeI you know in a different
therapy field myself.
Yes, I hear so many things.
Yeah, we can talk about it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So tell the story,
Like start from the beginning,
Like what were your thoughts,what were the things that kind
of like brought this on?
Wow, your new business, youknow I was in the womb and I
decided my spirit was going tobe a cuddler.
Okay, bitch.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
In the beginning I
mean so I have, like I used to
be a massage therapist, I'vealways been drawn to holistic
healing in general, Like it'salways been something that I
love.
That's not to say I am ascience denier in any way.
I believe in vaccines.
(22:30):
I go to the doctor.
Obviously my doctor was on theshow with us Go back.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
You want to listen to
that episode?
Trust me.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Right, yeah, no, go
back and listen to Dr Robert's
talking.
It's amazing.
Also, I've got a project I'mworking on with him, so that the
directory that I want to talkabout I'm working on with him,
so it's good stuff.
We can jump to that and thencome back, and I've always had a
(23:01):
mind for different alternativehealing practices in general,
and I am also a very touchy,feely person.
I love being able to givecomfort when I the biggest thing
is when I was really young, mygreat grandma I will always so.
My great grandma was the personwho taught me how to love,
(23:23):
always were so.
My great grandma was the personwho taught me how to love Like.
This is a sweet, happy moment.
Sorry, guys, but she died ofcancer forever ago.
Crazy story.
She said she wouldn't die, eventhough she had breast cancer,
until I had a child, and shetold me this when I was like 10.
And at the time I was likethat's silly great grandma,
because I'm never going to havea kid.
And then I had a kid and shedied a year after I had a kid.
(23:44):
She also never went to chemo.
She never got treatment for herbreast cancer.
I don't, I don't, I don't knowuniverse, but I know it's crazy.
Um, but she taught me what loveis and, um, she cause.
She was in pain often.
Um, she used to like I would.
(24:05):
I would spend the night at herhouse a lot as a kid.
She really saved me from a lotof stuff.
But she would.
She would come and she wouldsit in her little grandma chair
at the end of the couch and shewould.
She would like be rubbing herhands and she would just kind of
like I could tell that she wasin pain and I was always like,
(24:33):
are you okay?
And she would go I'm justhurting.
You know, your touch is alwaysreally healing and makes me feel
so much better.
Do you think you could justhold my hand and rub my hand?
And I always I mean, it was thesame conversation.
It was like it would happenbrand new every time, but I
still did it.
And so I would hold her handand I would rub her hand, and
she told me that if I would fixher lights like this white light
, that it would help her feelbetter.
(24:54):
And I did so.
I would like picture this whitelight.
I know this is kind of atangent, but this is how it
started.
I started helping my grandmafeel better just through touch
as a child and then, as I gotolder, I learned that touch is
really important.
It's also something that oursociety is deprived of.
(25:17):
60% of the population is touchdeprived.
So as I got older I did a lotof things, but I got tired of
doing things for other people.
I did a lot for other people.
(25:39):
Yes, tears at the end of everyday, just being like I'm not
making a difference.
I've been a manager, I'veworked in compliance, I've been
a nonprofit CFO.
I've done a lot of things andnone of them made me happy,
because I was doing these thingsfor other people, but I was
(26:00):
never making a difference, I wasnever making an impact, I was
never healing anybody, I wasnever helping anybody in the way
that I wanted to, in the waythat felt like me.
And so COVID hit and a coupleof years went by and I just I
kept thinking about the ideathat cuddle therapy could work
for me, like this could be athing that would really be me,
(26:24):
like it felt like a way thatmaybe I could do something.
But it seemed so silly, right,because it's cuddling Like who's
really going to go see a cuddletherapist?
And like is that even really athing?
So after a bunch of research, Idiscovered it's totally a real
thing and I went to school forit.
(26:46):
I became an internationallyaccredited cuddle therapist,
studying through CuddleProfessionals International,
which is based out of the UK.
They are wonderful.
So if anybody here isinterested in becoming a cuddle
therapist, cuddle ProfessionalsInternational and I learned so
much from them.
(27:06):
I mean I learned not just thingsthat I already knew to some
extent but that I really got todive them.
I mean I learned not justthings that I already knew to
some extent but that I reallygot to dive into, I mean just
the chemicals like is releasedthrough cuddling and through
touching the right ways tocuddle and touch somebody.
Trauma-informed care.
I went through a bunch ofdifferent training for that
because I wanted to make surethat what I was doing was
trauma-informed and I wasactually paying attention to my
(27:26):
clients and what they needed andable to help uphold boundaries,
clarify boundaries, help peoplecommunicate you know their own
personal boundaries and consent,and I mean there's so many
things that go into it.
But I learned all that throughthem.
I started a business and yeah,I mean that's.
(27:50):
That's the really, really longstory.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Oh my gosh, that's
why I wanted you to share it as
like a full story.
I didn't know the grandma part.
Uh, that was really.
That was really awesome.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I read a whole thing
about it.
Actually, I should probablyshare it more often, but I don't
.
But, yeah, yeah, you shouldyeah.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, so I have a
cuddle therapist.
Cuddle therapist.
Tell me what a standard sessionmay look like.
Like you're setting up anappointment.
Like what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah Well, so it
depends on the client and where
I get where that, where theclient comes from.
So I've had some reallyinteresting experiences as a
call therapist.
Maybe we should talk aboutthose.
I'm just saying now we'regetting dangerous um, so the way
that a session should look anddoes look when it's run the
(28:50):
right way with the right people.
Um, I, a client reaches out viaeither one of the networking
accesses or my website.
We do a discovery call.
Um, so I spend about half anhour talking to the client about
what their needs are.
Um, if they have any trauma,that I should be aware of any
(29:13):
boundaries that need to makesure.
Like you know, I've got clientswho maybe don't want their neck
touched.
I've got clients who they don'twant their head touched.
I've got clients who,specifically, can only be
touched on their stomach.
Um, just different things.
I want to make sure that Iunderstand a client's boundaries
ahead of time.
We talk about environmentbecause I make sure that my
space is very welcoming andaccommodating and inclusive to
(29:36):
everybody.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
So we talk about
whether they like it hot, cold,
what specific temperature theylike, what kind of music they
like because I do, I have sound,I have music playing all the
time, unless they just want totalk can we just say go check
out the website, because thepictures that you have of this
cottage, this cottage I justwant to lay in on like a 68, 69
(30:02):
degree day with a little breeze,you know, just chill, oh, it's
work you got it with the website, so good it's.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
I mean, I built we.
So we built this cottage fromthe ground up with pallets full
on labor of love, and it ispeople, everybody who walks
inside.
Every single person has talkedabout how comfortable it feels,
how warm and inviting it feelsLike it's just comfy.
(30:32):
The whole back wall, so like afull eight feet of this cottage
that I built was meant to housea big fig mattress, because I
wanted that.
I wanted something that wasgoing to fit every body and
nobody does it like Big Fig.
(30:52):
So I reached out to Big Fig.
They're amazing.
They hooked it up and so wehave the whole back of the
cottage is a Big Fig and everysingle person who gets on the
bed they're like what kind ofbed is this?
And I'm like it's a big fig,big fig.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It's so good, it's so
comfy, I'm sorry you were
saying that you get to pick allthe lighting and the things.
That's what got me oh, it's sogorgeous.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
I have to say that,
um, yeah, okay, so we we go
through.
So, pre-discovery call we talkabout everything.
We talk about what needs arewhat, what you want to do,
different cuddle positions.
We talk about boundaries.
We really just to get a feelalso for energy, because some
energy works, some energy don't.
I mean, you know, as atherapist, right Like there are
(31:43):
some clients or some therapistswho are just not going to be,
it's just not going to work, andI never want a client to come
into the space and feelunwelcome, feel like they, you
know, aren't well, they aren'thappy there, they aren't
comfortable there.
So, yeah, so that's what theprediscovery call is for.
(32:03):
And then after that a sessiongets scheduled and when they
come in for the session, it'susually I ask right away how
they feel about hugs, if theywant to be welcomed with a hug,
because everybody likes hugs.
That come in usually, but thereare people who don't.
And so, um, really good hugs.
Really I love hugs.
(32:24):
I'm a big squishy teddy bear.
That's like I got told.
Actually, I had a sessionearlier this week and my client
was like that's the best momenergy.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I love it and having
like the mom energy kind of
thing might get you some clientsthat just want to like deal
with the trauma that they had asa child and have like a mom
figure, energy, vibe kind ofsituation with you.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, or those who
are going through a divorce and
they don't have parents here andthey just like need their mom,
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It's definitely all
about comfort.
So yeah, so then they come infor their session.
We greeted with a hug.
I usually say all right, let'sget cozy, whatever is going to
make you comfortable.
So clothing requirements areshorts and a t-shirt is the bare
minimum.
That is the least amount ofclothing you can have on.
But you can have on as muchclothing as you like Shoes on,
(33:22):
shoes off, socks on socks off,slippers on, does not matter.
It's all about comfort, it's allabout what makes somebody else
comfortable.
And then, if it's somebody whoneeds time to adjust, I have a
little sitting area and so we'lllike sit and talk and just kind
of get comfortable.
If it's somebody who's likemost people don't, most people
(33:44):
just want to plop on the bed andso like we just transition over
to where the cuddle therapyhappens and we start with
breathing if they're anxious.
If it's a repeat client, mostof that doesn't need to happen,
but I do have clients who have alot of anxiety.
So if that's the case, we dobox breathing and a couple other
(34:06):
different breathing techniquesto try to help ground them and
kind of get them soft.
You know what I mean?
Yep, get them comfortable, getthem acclimated, get them
feeling at ease yeah.
So that way they can justactually relax.
And then we I usually offerjust a basic hold at first, like
(34:28):
let me hold you, and then wekind of move through different
positions.
Some clients want like aweighted, blanket situation so
they like have more of my bodykind of holding them there.
Some people want to just youknow, spoon, big, spoon, little
spoon.
I do a lot of.
I also have, like I do facialmassage on people.
I used to do massage, so like Ihave people like lay, you know,
(34:54):
kind of on their backs towardsme and then I do a facial
massage and shoulder massage.
It really just depends on theclients.
Every session is a little bitdifferent.
I have clients who just want tobe held and talk.
I have clients who just want tobe held and talk.
I have clients who just want tonot talk and be held.
I've had a lot of differentexperiences but every session is
(35:17):
different.
There has not been a singlething that I can be like.
This is what all sessions looklike, because every single thing
is about the client and what isgoing to make them comfortable
and what they need.
So some of them is just aboutletting them vent about the
client and what is going to makethem comfortable and what they
need.
So some of them is just aboutletting them vent about the day
and just be in a space.
It's being a space to listen.
(35:37):
My job is I'm not like othertherapists, so my job but it is
to be present and comfort andnurture and heal through touch.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Awesome, it's awesome
and, like you mentioned, so
needed, like can you imagine ifthese alpha bros you know
actually had cuddle intimacy,like real, like cuddle intimacy?
It would not be the situationthat any of us are in.
There's no intimacy, and Ithink that's the kind of and
(36:21):
when I say intimacy I knowpeople are like oh, sex, not
talking about sex.
We're going to say very, veryemphatically this is not sex.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
This is platonic,
fully platonic, exclusively
platonic cuddling.
There is nothing sexual aboutmy cuddle therapy business
Exactly cuddle therapy businessExactly River Rose Cuddle
(36:52):
Cottage is specifically platonic.
However, that is not always thecase, so if you are somebody
who has experienced a differenttype of cuddle professional,
please understand that that isdifferent than cuddle therapy.
Please understand that thereare other websites for that and
(37:15):
if you are a provider offering,please stay on your car.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Stay in your lane,
bro name your lane, you'll have
a corner.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
I'm not about the
scarcity mindset.
If anybody wants to be a cuddletherapist, a cuddle
professional, do it.
We need more touch in the world, but please stop offering
client non-professional servicesunder the guise of platonic
cuddling, please.
It really ruins things for therest of us cuddling please.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
It really ruins
things for the rest of us.
Yeah Well, and it leads to word, you know, especially if
somebody didn't pay attention tothat on your website and just
booked, just wanted to book, asession, and then you know
that's the well, will you?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
do this Right?
Yeah, or the first.
I've definitely had within thefirst 10 minutes.
So can we have sec.
I've definitely had within thefirst 10 minutes.
So can we have sex?
Platonic, platonic, Platonic.
I've also repeatedly toldsomebody platonic and had them
be like so will you play with mynipples?
And I'm like word of God, buddy, that's not platonic, friend,
(38:24):
that's not no.
You know what, like you know,professionally, I will touch
here above your chest, I willtouch here on your stomach, and
that is the boundary that I have.
That is where I'm willing totouch because, because I'm not
doing anything sexual.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
My friend, you're a
professional and professionals
don't have sex with theirclientele unless they are doing
sex work Right, and cuddletherapy is not sex work.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
It's not, and if I
was gonna, I would charge a lot
more and then also not do itunder the guise of something
else.
It's fine, everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I don't need to vent
about it, it's fine,
everything's fine, but that's mypoint, though it's important
for people to understand.
This is what I'm saying, though, is like cuddle therapy is
intimacy.
When we're in a culture thatdoesn't pay attention to the
(39:20):
fact that there is sex, work,which is sex, and then intimacy,
these are two different things,and so, until we have a culture
that really understands thatand values that, men like alpha
male bro men that's what I'mtalking about.
That's a big fucking deal.
Like that would changeeverything, and that's why the
(39:40):
work you're doing is soimportant, because physical
touch is healing.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
It's somatic therapy,
like it is yeah, yeah, well,
and it's needed like it's it'sso.
Even just the simplest form ofit is so needed.
We have this built-in.
This is the thing about it.
We have this built-insuperpower that can actually
help us release endorphins, helpus release oxytocin, help us
(40:07):
release like our brains react tothe touch of another person,
not just our own touch.
But, yes, we can help createsome stimulus for ourselves and
we can help do some triggersthrough our own self massage and
other stuff.
However, it is not the same.
When another person touches you, it helps release so many good,
(40:32):
happy things and right nowthere's so much shit happening
that we need every little bit ofgood we can get.
So it's like stop, like we.
We have this, have thistendency so many times.
As people, we have the tendencyto, when things are wrong, we
turtle, we disappear, we hidebecause it's too much, because
(40:55):
we're overwhelmed, because we'reexhausted, because we feel like
garbage, because we don't wantto put the effort into looking
nice, because we don't feel likewe have to look a certain way
to get out into society, becausewe don't have the energy to
connect with another human being.
But the reality is that we needthose connections, we need that
(41:17):
time touching and being aroundother people.
We as a species are communitydriven.
We as a species are communitybased and we do better as a
community.
We do better when we'retogether.
I mean, there's reasons why youknow broken heart syndrome is
an actual thing and people diefrom it.
People die from loneliness allthe time, not just elderly
people.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Babies in their first
couple of days, if they don't
have physical touch, can die.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Well, there was a
study done in two orphanages,
where there was one orphanageI'm sure you know about this
right.
There was one orphanage I'msure you know about this right.
There was one orphanage wherethe babies didn't have any
physical contact aside from justvery, very, very basic, and
then another one where they wereheld and comforted anytime they
needed it, and the kids thatdidn't have any comfort grew up
(42:04):
so much more maladjusted thanthe other group of kids.
It is so important.
Touch is so important, andthroughout our lives not just
growing up, not just as babieswe need that for the entirety of
our lives.
And so it's such a shame that welive in a society that we have
(42:28):
had to become afraid of otherpeople.
We have had to become afraid oftouching another person.
We have been traumatized bybeing touched by other people
because it's like the same thingthat can heal us, can hurt us,
and it is awful that that's thecase.
It is awful, but I mean that'swhy I'm doing what I want, why
(42:50):
I'm trying to do this, because Ibelieve that we can heal those
things.
I believe that we can healthose traumas and we can heal
those bonds and we can helppeople make that better and I
just absolutely I want it to bebetter.
I want us to be better.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Well, and I think, as
a, as a culture, when we really
do focus on intimacy andengagement and connection, like
you were talking, we become adifferent society.
Yeah, I also, um, want you tobe able to talk a little bit, if
(43:27):
you're willing to, about yourcounseling stuff.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yes, I have some
really great friends, so I've
always loved helping people,right.
Obviously, I believe in allkinds of alternative things.
I actually went to school forpsychology, um, like, but
unfortunately, like, you needmore than an associate to become
a counselor and I, uh, I didn'thave the time to become a
(43:54):
counselor because of childrenand life, and I was also going
through a really abusivemarriage at the time, so it
wasn't great, um, but I'vealways I've had, I have that
heart still, so I've alwaysloved being able to help people
and beyond just physical touch.
I have some really greatfriends who have been
(44:17):
encouraging me, some of them fora couple of years, some of them
more recently.
And um, they suggested that Ibecome a relationship coach.
Um.
Now, as somebody who has had alot of different relationships
in her life, um, and a lot ofdifferent experiences and a lot
of times that I wish somebodywas out there to help coach me
(44:39):
through it Um, it seemed likesomething that I could
realistically help people withUm, and I've I've successfully
done so for some friends, um,and I've definitely done so for
some family over the years, um,and I love it.
(45:01):
So I decided I wanted to startdoing it.
So I started taking coursesthrough IAP Career College to
get my relationship coachingcertification so that way I can
add relationship coach to myofferings.
So it's not just about physicaltouch and physical healing, but
I also get to do like heartcoaching on helping heal through
(45:24):
relationship building, and Ilove that.
I'm so excited about thatBecause man, seeing people happy
makes me happy.
You know like I want my friendsto be happy.
I want people to have healthy,loving relationships, yes, and
not just like with your partner,your family, with your freaking
(45:48):
, with your neighbor with yourneighbor, with yourself, with
yourself yeah I was just youknow what I earlier today.
I was doing a little me time andit was amazing I was doing a
little me time and it wasamazing what's the me time?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Because self-care is
vital.
If you can give anyone a tip,we got to go.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Yeah, so I was very
stereotypical, me time today.
And then you know what?
I don't even care.
I don't care that it's clichebecause it feels good, okay.
Okay, I'd like to say that itwas just like a bunch of
masturbation, since we're doingbig sexy chat, but it's not
where it was but kind ofdisappointed.
(46:33):
But okay, I'm sorry that'stonight cheese.
Uh, uh, no, I um, I I put onthose like gel ip pads and then
I have this like heat pack thatyou put on your eyes and I put a
sleep pack on top of that, andthen I have this Bluetooth eye
mask and I put that on top ofall that and have this Bluetooth
(46:57):
eye mask.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like a sleep mask.
You know Like a sleep mask, butit's got little bone conducting
.
You know that like like a likea sleep mask, but it's got
little um bone conducting.
Headphones in the ear area, oh,like, just like.
It like covers your ear and youcan hear only you can hear it.
So like your partner can't hearit or whoever else is in bed um
(47:18):
can't hear anything you'relistening to, which is, you know
, fun, um, but it's a veryrelaxing.
So like I had meditation, musicgoing and I had the nice.
It was like a blanket on myeyes.
Yeah, he was talking to me 20minutes.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
It was so good I'm
just thinking of that three
layers there I'm just like ohyeah, that sounds really nice
those things, those little, ohgod so good, I was like, oh,
this is, it's like a littleblanket.
It was just like having justjust over my eyes, just they
were part of our staff's goodiebags, um, on our christmas, yeah
(48:00):
, because we were just like.
Those are really so likecomforting.
You put them on and it's like.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Right, that's and
that's.
I love that I have.
I have like heated stones, likehot stones for that kind of
stuff in the cottage, not foreyes, because you don't want to
burn anybody, but like I havelike a pad that I put and then
the stones go on it just to addsome warmth.
Yeah, I love everything thatmakes you feel warm and cozy and
(48:29):
relaxed and I want that formyself too.
Yeah, I want fuzzy blankets.
I want to be warm and cozy andrelaxed.
I also want to feel like theworld is not on fire.
That'd be amazing.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Exactly, the Lulu is
for lulu.
I get it.
The existential dread isexhausting, and so it's like,
any ability to do whateverbrings you some amount of joy.
If, as long as you ain'thurting yourself, somebody else
or animals or whatever, likewe're good.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
And that's kind of
where I draw the line to.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
I'm like, just don't
hurt anybody or anything, Please
.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
I'm like get down
with yourself.
But my aunt used to say, getdown with your own bad self.
And I was like I never reallygot it, Like I loved her
attitude but then, like, as Ilike realized, like get down
with your own bad self, likecovers a lot of shit, yeah I do
I, the way we don't get downthat much, follow the fun.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yeah, you know, yeah,
every now and then you just, I
think we all need time to justcare for ourselves a little bit,
and you know like, yeah, we allhave to experience that
differently, and that's one ofthe things like when we talk
about like coping skills.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Right now, some
people have used every coping
skill they have, like it's justnot enough.
And, as a therapist, duringthis time, I have a very I have
a very small caseload, uh, butall the people in my life that
are caregivers, you know, andhave to deal with this sort of
filling your own cup sort ofthing, oh my gosh, yeah, like
(50:20):
hard they're, they're, they'recrisis.
Some of them are calling crisisbecause it's just I've had such
a horrible day, I just can't,you know, and need somebody to
walk me through the moment andit that's fair.
Everybody needs that and wehave to fill our own cup too,
and we're healers and we'recaregivers.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
And it's so hard to
do, it's so hard to do.
Caregivers and it's so hard todo, it's so hard to do and I
wouldn't you have somethingthat's I've had.
Most of my clients at thispoint are just the world is a
mess.
I've had I've had clients leavethe country because they're
just done um it.
It's hard and it's hard to be acarer in a world that needs
(51:04):
more carers.
Like who cares for the carers?
But luckily there are a goodamount of therapists out there
I'm discovering, like even fatfriendly therapists, which is
really cool.
So I'm doing this for my area,for the pacific northwest um,
and there is, so health at everysize exists and health at every
(51:28):
size lists medical providers invarious areas which is amazing
um and that's a call out healthat every size, guys, but some of
your resources are outdated.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
No, seriously.
No, it's a problem, y'all.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
So for the Pacific
Northwest, my doctor, dr Roberts
.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
he asked me, we love
you at Big Sexy Chat.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
We love.
He's our bestie.
He asked me if I would beinterested in putting together a
provider network directory offat friendly providers, medical
providers in the pacificnorthwest, and because he's got
clients, got patients that needto be referred to people and no
(52:15):
idea who to refer them to.
And this happened because ofall the times that he's tried to
refer me to somebody who wasawful and was super fat phobic
and super douchey and it waslike awful, awful, awful
experience after awful I mean,you know, normal for all of us
(52:35):
just got that one in.
We're good.
Keep adding big bank so good.
It's like medical trauma.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Sorry, I love humor
y'all.
We deal with it every fuckingtime we go to the doctor's
office.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
Which is like why
finding providers who are not
that way is so important.
So I took this on.
I took this task on and I'm soamazed at the things that I've
discovered through doing this.
So one, just in this area,there's so many of them who are
(53:11):
actually, like, fat friendly,who care about their clients,
who, like, aren't going to pushdiet agendas on them, who are
really into helping them, asthey are.
I'm so amazed by, but also like, not just that, but the amount
of them who like actively wantto be part of these types of
(53:34):
things.
And the coolest part has beenthere's a lot of fat like
medical providers out there thatthey themselves are part of the
fat community.
Oh, oh, I love it.
Right, I was like shut thefront door.
You know, it's been amazingbecause I've had, like, several
(53:55):
different doctors reach outbecause they heard about it
through other providers and arelike, I want to be a part of
that.
Can you please list, list me onthat?
I am part of the FAP communityand even I've struggled with
finding other providers formyself.
So this is an amazing resourceand I was like, oh, oh, love it,
(54:17):
like it's been so cool to findthat out.
Just that, that that made me sohappy.
but I've got over 45 providerson this list that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yeah, it's so cool.
That's changing people's lives.
Actually it's going to changepeople's lives.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
I said, well, the
thing and the thing that I did
with it is like I also, becausewe do have other other resources
that do exist, that haveexisted health at Size, and
there's also fatfriendlydocscomand that also does basically the
same thing and, just like mostthings, right like these
resources get created, but thenthere's a lot of information on
(54:54):
them, so it's hard to keep upwith it.
I found a lot of doctors whoeither are no longer practicing
or who have changed practices orwho no longer align with the
mission.
Like the goal and the messageof these things Because that was
also part of my process wasverifying that they are still
like fat friendly, yeah, andthere was a solid amount of them
(55:20):
that that needed to be changedand were not updated.
So it's like how many peoplehave tried these resources and
then only been left not havingthe person be there?
Speaker 2 (55:29):
you know, I see it
all the time we we have that
issue in our community.
Um, you know, some of the morerural areas, that's, that's an
issue, you know.
Yeah, so having a directory isa big fucking deal and for the
fat community that's fantasticto hear that providers are
wanting to be on it and like,wow, that's, are you adding your
(55:55):
uh cottage, your cuddle?
Speaker 3 (55:57):
I I might add it
under alternative therapy.
Um, I've got some providersthat I'm trying to figure out
where I want to label them still, because I've got a lot of not
just like not just primary careproviders and not just like
actual physicians, but other.
So I've got a lot of likemental health people on there.
I've also got a gym that is allinclusive, that is for in this
(56:23):
area in portland area, that ismade for fat bodies and like.
There are fat instructors thereand, like you know, all bodies,
strong, um and like other.
There's a couple other placesthat are like body works types,
places that are, um, really allall very fat friendly and not
just fat friendly but like fatfocused.
(56:46):
So there are places that weredesigned with fat bodies in mind
and I just there.
There are way more in this area.
I mean, granted, we've got likethe fat community in portland
is not minimal, right, there isa, there is a pretty healthy fat
community here, so the factthat those things exist doesn't
surprise me.
Yeah, but.
(57:06):
I think that I think, I thinkthat it's a good like way to
have the start of like aconversation right like if, if a
city like if a city likeportland can have these kind of
resources and people in thatcommunity build these spaces,
then that can be done anywhere,yep a thousand percent.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
Everybody can start a
directory in their community.
You just got to spend it's alot of tedious time and you got
to really make sure that thatprovider you know has those
ethics, has that belief set likeit's.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
It's a big deal yeah,
but also like the fat, the fat
providers themselves, like anyany fat person out there could
and is like you know and going Icould be a whatever provider.
Yeah, because there is a needfor that in the world.
In this country, we need morepeople who understand fat bodies
(58:04):
because they're in fat bodiesand those people leading
conversations in the medicalworld and in every other part of
the world, to make it so thatway people understand these
things.
I mean, that's how changehappens, like we need.
We need these, we need to takeup space.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
And we have to have
difficult conversations, we have
to have self-reflection andthen we gotta move forward.
Yeah, you get it.
Speaker 3 (58:33):
You get it.
Well, this has been a reallygreat conversation about a lot
of things that I don't think weplanned on talking about.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yeah, I think it was
a good squirrel podcast.
Maybe you could say we call itget squirrely with ashley and
we're yeah oh, it's good, good,so tell them where they can find
your cuddle cottage.
Speaker 3 (58:57):
So you can find what
I'm doing at river rose
cuddleagecom.
Everything spelled the way thatit should be.
If you were going to say riverrose, cuddle and cottage
together, and then also onFacebook, that's where my stuff
is at Awesome.
(59:17):
Come cuddle with me.
Speaker 2 (59:19):
Yeah, and soon get
relationship coaching while
cuddling.
Speaker 3 (59:23):
It's going to be
fantastic.
It's going to be a reallyinteresting one.
I really hope I can do likeintimacy coaching.
That's not sexual.
You know what I mean.
Like emotional intimacy.
I want to help people.
You're doing it, you're doingit, I'm doing it.
I'm doing it well.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
All right, you can
find us at big sexy chat on all
the socials.
Uh, if you want to email us,where do you email us?
Ashley, big sexy chat pod atgmailcom.
Fantastic, all right, don'tforget about crystal's new
clothing, her merch side houseand Bliss Connection if you're
(01:00:06):
looking to get a new sex toy orsome lingerie.
I gotta tell you guys about thetrade show that I went to when
we stayed at the Paris.
Las Vegas.
So I've been very bonjour.
Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
I am dancing with
fancy sex toys.
Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Exactly the toy, the
van.
Can I give a little sneak peekin terms of what's coming?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
do it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
The magic wand has
made a waterproof submergible
that has a motor that's evenmore powerful than the one that
you plug into the wall.
Shit and it's coming to you.
Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
That sounds about
like what the clitoris is going
to do, right, like can thatthing start a car?
Because if it's more powerfulthan the plug-in wand, how many,
how many pulverized clits arewe?
Gonna have out, there is thatgonna be a new syndrome and like
pulverized, let's be a syndromewe gotta go.
Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
We gotta cut it, we,
we gotta go.
This is just gonna, we're gonnabe too dangerous, you're
dangerous oh god, crystal,goodness, she let us, she let us
she let us run wild.
This is what happens when youleave us unsupervised.
Shit gets crazy and dangerous.
(01:01:36):
Alright, I'm having a chat withyou, though me too.
Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
I hope we don't get
pulverized.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
No, not at all, girl.
You're doing something wrong,stop that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
Well, it's been great
chatting with you, murph.
I'm going to go ahead and saysee you later, alligator.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
After a while,
crocodile.