January 10, 2024 • 52 mins
Have you ever contemplated why some business partnerships thrive while others crumble? Join Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton as we delve into the intricate dance of partnership, drawing on the trust and commitment akin to that of a marriage. Together, they dissect the elements that make or break these alliances, from the indispensability of clear communication to the shared financial stakes that bind partners. They're peeling back the layers to reveal why a true partner's worth is measured far beyond their monetary contribution.
In this enlightening discussion, they pivot to the magnetic pull between visionaries and executors, using their own partnership with Fred as a lens. The synergy of their contrasting strengths—one cultivating the roots, the other spreading the branches—serves as a testament to the importance of respect and space for each role to flourish in the business ecosystem. And, as they delve further, we unpack the continuous evolution of a good partner, exploring how personal growth, adaptability, and emotional intelligence fortify the foundations of a lasting and prosperous partnership.
Wrapping up, our conversation takes a turn towards the hearth, where they connect the dots between business philosophies, values, family legacy, and the bittersweet nostalgia of changing traditions. Reminiscing about breakfast choices with my daughter Olive and reflecting on my father's influential career, we touch upon the wisdom imparted by the passage of time and our shifting perspectives on life. This episode isn't just about the mechanics of successful partnerships; it's about the human stories and shared values that shape our professional journeys. So, tune in for a candid exploration of the ties that bind in the business world and beyond.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Zweig (00:04):
All right, everybody welcome back.
It's another episode of bigtalk about small business.
I'm here with my partner andfriend, Eric Howerton.
Good morning, mark Zwaag.
Good morning.
Eric Howerton (00:19):
How are you doing today?
Yeah, I was running a littlelate for our podcast, shamefully
.
That's okay.
It's like I've had to apologizeto you, for I mean, I still
feel bad Even during the middleof this podcast.
Don't feel bad, I love you.
Mark Zweig (00:32):
All is no.
Sin will not be forgiven.
It's unconditional love.
Eric Howerton (00:37):
Thank you I appreciate that, speaking of
unconditional love.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes.
Eric Howerton (00:42):
I think we're going to talk about partnerships
today.
Business partnerships yeah, Ithink that's a good one to talk
about.
Yeah, because I think thatthere is some unconditionalness
that goes on when you're inbusiness partnership and it's
just like being married man.
I think it's actually almostmore.
Yeah, it really is, Causeyou're so entwined and tied,
Except that you don't have thatway to make up that you have
(01:04):
when you're married.
What are you talking about?
I'm confused.
Mark, can you elaborate please?
No, I'm sure our audience oflove to hear elaboration.
Mark Zweig (01:15):
I will not elaborate on that.
But no, it's true though you dospend, as many of us spend more
time with those businesspartners than we do with our,
our life partners Totally.
Eric Howerton (01:27):
And the other thing is is that I've noticed,
is that, uh, or experienced, isthat you have to like a lot of
times in marriage, rightPartnership.
You don't have to necessarilyhit problems head on as they
happen, like, and of course thatdoesn't ever lead to anything
good but you really don't haveto face a lot of the things you
know, like if there's some shitbetween you you can kind of
(01:50):
float it out for a few years.
Mark Zweig (01:52):
It's devastating Not getting that kind of advice is
a good thing.
It is devastating.
I've always subscribed to thattheory.
We got to make up before we goto sleep.
Eric Howerton (02:01):
That's a good one , you know that's a good one.
Yeah, but in business, like yougot to kind of make up before
the next meeting, yeah, that'sgoing to happen in an hour,
because if you walk in,especially with your team, or
even with vendors and customers,it doesn't matter.
Like you got to be unifiedbecause people will say that
crap Like I can sniff that froma mile away.
Mark Zweig (02:23):
No, no question about it.
But yeah, good partners areinvaluable and bad partners are
like toxic Terribly toxic.
Eric Howerton (02:30):
Yes, so I've been lucky in my career.
Yeah, I really have.
Yeah, I really have.
You've had a few good ones, forsure, yeah, so what do you
think is like a makeup of a goodpart?
Like, ok, so our audiencethinking about starting a
business or own a business or abusiness, yeah, right.
And I often get that questionof like, hey, I want to start a
(02:54):
business, you know, should I geta partner?
I've heard horror stories abouthaving partners and my response
is always like it's so muchbetter with a great partner.
That is, I agree.
Why is that?
Why do you feel that it is?
Mark Zweig (03:07):
Well, I'm sure and I think, knowing the kinds of
part at least a couple of thepartners that you had, I think
you would agree with this You'vegot to find people who are
different from yourself and havedifferent skills than you have
the more, but the same sort ofvalue system and same plans for
what you want to do with thebusiness.
(03:27):
Yeah, the same idea of what youwant to do for the business,
but different skills, becausethe more the same they are, then
the more likely you are to haveconflict.
Yeah, very true, you knowyou're treading in each other's
territory.
Eric Howerton (03:42):
And I think that you make a good point like the
values, but also the values butalso the same vision, right,
yeah, absolutely, like you know,but that difference that you
have is so strong because tohave someone else involved in
the business that is absolutely,relentlessly committed, yes,
you know, and they're not goingto bounce.
(04:02):
And if they want to bounce,that's not going to be an easy
thing Like you're kind of stuckin it.
Right, and to know that youhave that loyalty and that
commitment that helps solidify,like that you do actually have
somebody with you along the rideand if they're different than
you and they can think about,they can have that vision, and
then they can apply thatstrength.
Yes, you know, and make surethat it's Check this out, done.
(04:26):
Right, I'm telling you, dude,like, if you can't, it's so
valuable you can't pay somebodyto run your books.
No, well, you can.
Well, you, okay, and do itright, like, legitimately right
for the business.
Like I mean, there's people thatare smart and they know how to
move things around and you knowthat I've yet to experience
somebody, especially in thefinancial side, that genuinely
(04:50):
cares.
Right, it can see red flags inthe books.
Right, like, if you'reoverpaying for something.
You're a county.
Your bookkeepers are going tosay, hey, you know what?
You should really watch out forthis, because if you keep this
behavior, you're going to be outof business or it's going to be
hurting.
You're going to be borrowingmore money the whole partner
that would.
Mark Zweig (05:07):
Yeah, I mean a good partner is committed like you
are.
I mean it's so valuable theydon't want to go broke anymore
than you do, absolutely.
But I mean we could talk aboutthe numbers all day, because I
can't tell you how manycompanies I've been involved
with that have bad numbers, andI'm dealing with it right now
with one of them that you'reaware of and it's just just
(05:28):
trying to get the handle on.
That is so important becausenobody knew anything about the
numbers in the firm yeah, nobody.
Eric Howerton (05:35):
Yeah, you know, and in time point you can't,
well, but you can't pay someonelike a vendor or an employee.
Mark Zweig (05:42):
No, you can't.
Eric Howerton (05:43):
No, that's going to look at those numbers the way
that you're looking at rightnumbers, because you actually
care about the outcome of thatbusiness.
So many vendors and so manypeople are gonna go along for
the ride.
Everybody wants to get paid.
Mark Zweig (05:58):
Yeah, you're kidding .
And if they don't wanna rufflethe feathers, the boss, they
don't get paid.
Eric Howerton (06:05):
Boom, right, Dude that's a huge point.
Ruffling feathers Like whatperson is.
If I'm getting paid a salaryand that salary's important for
me and my family and my future,I am not gonna jeopardize that
salary.
There's not many people thatwill.
Mark Zweig (06:22):
Well you might, because you have confidence that
you can go do something on yourown.
Well, that's true, that's true.
But you're different, right?
Eric Howerton (06:29):
You're wired differently than most, that's
true, but most folks they won'tapproach a red flag situation
Right or like we can't do thisRight, Like literally putting
your foot down and saying, man,it's gotta stop, and then facing
that conflict head on.
I mean you just can't.
But a partner, Partner can,Partner can and will.
Mark Zweig (06:49):
Yeah, if they have the right skills and should not
follow in the same path thatyou're on personally.
Yes, right, or the sameorientation you have.
Eric Howerton (06:59):
And, speaking of that, there's times in business
when things like just from amental standpoint like you can
get too much on your plate, orthere's other things in life
that are going on and to have apartner and you know what's
going to Right, they can take upthe slack Boom.
Mark Zweig (07:14):
Yeah, it's super.
I mean several times in my lifethat's been the case and I'm
very grateful for that.
But yeah, I mean, the rightpartner is invaluable.
But I think a lot of timespeople get the wrong partner
because they go oh, bob's myfriend.
We went to college together, wewere in the same fraternity
(07:34):
together, or he was in my dormwith me and Bob and I have been
good friends all this time andBob wants to do something with
me, right, not necessarily theright person, and especially
when you're really tight friends, that a lot of times it's not
documented.
Well, very true, okay, I gotanother one of those situations
(07:55):
I'm dealing with right now.
The guy died who was partnerswith somebody else I know and
nothing's documented.
Oh no, so you can imagine thenightmare trying to Like you're
talking about.
as far as the organization andthe structure yes, the LLC,
operating agreement, lendingdocuments, things like that no
(08:16):
way.
Capital contributions notdocumented it's just as horrible
.
But there was too much trust ina way because of the personal
relationship feeling we can workanything out.
Eric Howerton (08:29):
That's a big point because it's we might like
if you and I went into businesstogether.
I might trust you.
But we know now well enoughthat setting up a true LLC with
the right formalities and thelegal documents is so critical.
Or corporation, or corporation,yeah Right.
And the point of thosedocuments is not necessarily
that.
So you and I can agree.
(08:49):
It's more that when, if youpass, or I pass away, exactly
what happens I know what's thatexit, because you don't want to
be stuck with a family memberthat has no idea nor care.
Mark Zweig (08:59):
I'm telling you that's exactly the scenario that
this friend of mine's involvedwith now, when the spouse the
spouse is the one and the spouseknows nothing about the
business.
Yeah right, the spouse nevercontributed anything to the
business.
The whole arrangement was basedon each having their own role
in making certain contributions.
(09:21):
Yeah, and now it's purelyfinancial?
Yeah, Okay, but nothing'sdocumented.
I mean, it's just a badsituation.
So what?
And that brings me up toanother point about partners.
If it's purely financial, I'mgoing to be scared.
There's got to be more to itthan that.
Somebody brings other than justthe money Gotcha To your
(09:45):
business.
They got to be able to help insome way Management expertise,
worldliness, experience.
So that kind of reminds me ofsome of our relationships.
Eric Howerton (09:54):
Yeah, it reminds me of some of the discussions
that we've had about if you'rean entrepreneur and you're just
going out looking for investorpartners Exactly and you're just
looking for somebody to throwmoney in it because you got this
plan but if these people areremoved from the business and
there's being counted againstwhat you're doing, there are
people out there like that whohave money and who do invest in
these businesses.
Mark Zweig (10:15):
But if it's purely financially driven, there's no
real relationship between thepeople and they don't have
anything else to offer thebusiness.
They're likely to want to dosomething different than you are
with it, and that's not a goodpartner.
You got to have that.
You said at the vision.
It's got to be the same.
The mission's got to be thesame, like.
(10:38):
This is why we're in business.
This is where we're trying togo with this business and if
it's purely financial, there'sonly one thing they want out of
it and that's money, and theyprobably want it as fast as they
can get it, absolutely.
Eric Howerton (10:51):
And then they're gonna know what detail reporting
about where all the money'sgoing, because they want more of
that money.
Yeah, exactly.
Mark Zweig (10:57):
Versus all they got, yeah, they'll.
Eric Howerton (10:59):
Versus like, hey, man, a better partnership would
be like I get it, we got some.
Okay, we got some cash in thebusiness, but we need to
reinvest into the company.
Mark Zweig (11:09):
Yeah, we've got some problems that we need to deal
with.
We got some opportunities.
We need to capitalize on them.
Eric Howerton (11:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we need some people.
We need qualified, goodcandidates.
Mark Zweig (11:17):
And it ain't gonna be overnight.
We got to be thinking longerterm than just like next month
here, because that's not wherethe opportunity is.
Eric Howerton (11:25):
That's a good discussion because that's really
the nail on the head, like ofwhat we've talked about about
this capital raising phenomenonthat's going on, that you're
like you can't approach it thatway because I mean, heck, an
investor like.
A big value I'd see from aninvestor, like as a partner,
would be connections that theyhave Exactly, yeah, like connect
me with the freaking people.
(11:45):
That's gonna take me five yearsto get connected to my own
methods, but if you can connectme in a week and I can develop
that out in three months, man,that is substantial.
Mark Zweig (11:56):
I was out of town recently for a couple nights and
, of course, I just had SharkTank on continuously at night.
That's good for the rain tohelp you sleep.
I mean, yeah, it's better thanmy watching the news all night,
like my wife does, which puts mein a horrible mood.
But anyway, I was just watchingepisode after episode of Shark
Tank for two nights in a row.
Yeah, and the people who arethere making a pitch you don't
(12:21):
understand what the right Sharkcould do for them, true, and
then they pass on theiropportunity to associate with
those people.
It's really something else.
I mean, they're soshort-sighted, you know.
Like if you got a productyou're gonna sell online and you
got somebody via television,and you got somebody there who's
(12:43):
been doing that for like 30years and became a freaking
multi-zillionaire off of it, I'dsay, shit, this is a great
opportunity.
Eric Howerton (12:52):
Oh, dude, yeah, you know I've watched that so
many times.
When I'm like see these Goahead.
Mark Zweig (12:57):
I'm sorry, yeah, I'm just gonna say they want 35% of
your company for the price thatsomebody else is willing to
give you or that somebody elseis willing to do it for 20%, and
then take the 20% person whohas no idea of how to really
help that business, protectingtheir equity.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah.
Eric Howerton (13:20):
Because they go in there with a little bit
overconfidence and idea.
You know and you get advicefrom folks like you got a
protector.
What you do have in protectorequity right it's very expensive
capital, the most expensivecash.
Mark Zweig (13:32):
Especially if you're not on a long term plan.
There's no short term.
You're sacrificing along theway I mean it lasts than you
should bearing all that stress.
Whatever, you want to have apayoff at the end.
Eric Howerton (13:44):
Yeah, but if I'm walking into Shark Tank and I
got a clothing line and Damienis like I'll be happy to get in
but I'm gonna take a little bithigher equity position, right,
if you're Damien, but I canconnect you and you see these
entrepreneurs like no, I'm outman.
Yeah, I know it's worth morethan that.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
No, bro, it's not.
Eric Howerton (14:00):
Yeah, take it, bro.
I mean great quote that I hearda long time ago is you don't
get wealthy off one transaction.
Exactly, it's multipletransactions, so just being
connected into that group.
Mark Zweig (14:12):
Yeah, maybe they can make your business 10 times
larger than it is.
So your stake, even if you had20% instead of 35, is worth far
more.
Yeah, because it's 10 timeslarger.
There's that.
Eric Howerton (14:26):
And then there's also the fact that, like, if you
have a real mindset to it, it'slike you got a lifelong
entrepreneurial career.
Mark Zweig (14:33):
Right.
Eric Howerton (14:34):
Of which you can actually be involved in 10, 20
businesses throughout your life.
And if you're really anentrepreneur, you're enjoying
that ride Like you love the ride, man.
Exactly, you like seeing going.
I like seeing things going fromnothing to something and you do
the same thing, like how youpaint canvases, man, with
businesses and all the stuffthat you've done, and it's like
(14:55):
years over years of justdeveloping.
The next thing you know youturn around and like you have,
you're sitting in a land ofopportunities, yeah.
Mark Zweig (15:01):
You got something that's worth, something that has
all kinds of possibilities forthe future Exactly.
Eric Howerton (15:06):
And then you got people that know about you,
bring you involved inopportunities all the way, and
you know that, the mindset thatyou can do greater things with a
group of people than you canall by yourself.
Mark Zweig (15:16):
Yeah, wouldn't you like to be in business with Mark
Cuban?
I mean, the guy's smart, I'mall good, yeah, he just that
just turns to gold.
Eric Howerton (15:23):
Exactly Like give me 30 minutes with him each
week and just hanging out, Imean like I'll fly down there
with my own dime Exactly I mean,yeah, oh, I get 1%, great.
Mark Zweig (15:33):
Yeah, the right, the right partner is so critical.
I, you know my primary businesspartner.
It's why white was Fred White,yeah, and he was.
You know I'm not and Fred and Iare.
We still talk occasionally wedon't talk all that often, but
we do talk occasionally and Fredwas a difficult person to work
(15:55):
with at times.
There's no denying it.
However, we never would havebeen as successful without the
guy.
True, he was a genius and hisskillset was almost like the
exact opposite of mine, yeah, sotogether we made a really good
team.
He was the guy that figured outthe longterm stuff how to
(16:16):
create the systems that made usmore efficient, how to create
the databases.
You know how to make booksfaster and better than anybody
else, how to market all ourstuff consistently.
So we got a consistent result.
That's super valuable, yeah.
Eric Howerton (16:38):
And so he was more inside.
Yes, so I think that, likethere is a common simple to
simplify this Inside versus out,then even we didn't even plan
that, but that's so true it is.
And you were the outside guy.
Yes, talk and smack, drink andcoffee yapping, drinking,
campaigning.
Mark Zweig (16:58):
Makes me sound so insubstantive Wow, I mean I mean
, hey, you know what.
Eric Howerton (17:05):
I'm sorry for you , but that's been my real tooth.
Mark Zweig (17:07):
I know it is, I know it is and I love it, you know,
yeah, somebody's got to do that.
Eric Howerton (17:13):
Somebody's got to do it.
I think I tell people at thetime I'm like I'm a professional
coffee drinker, it's all I am.
Man, like you know, I know howto go out there and I'm not
afraid to make strength.
Mark Zweig (17:21):
I'm the promoter and the connector and all that.
And I was picking on LinkedInrecently.
I know you don't spend a lot oftime on LinkedIn and you're
smart for not, but these peoplewho put in their profile
visionary I mean I'm a visionary, jesus, maybe somebody could
(17:44):
call you that.
But to claim that is ridiculous.
However, that set.
And then I was corrected bysomebody that said well now, if
you're an EOS company, that is aformal job title to be an a
visionary.
I'm like, okay, cut thebullshit with the EOS too.
Okay, and not to say EOS is bad, it's not, but it's not a
(18:08):
panacea for everything.
And I said and not everybodyknows you're an EOS.
So when they seeself-proclaimed visionary, they
think this guy's oh, dude soul.
I mean, I ain't to say it, butDude, I would, I would be,
ashamed to put visionary on myLinkedIn it is.
(18:28):
but all that aside, somebody'sgotta be the visionary.
Eric Howerton (18:34):
No, it's very true.
You know, and honestly, if youare a visionary, I wouldn't
really wanna claim it becausemost of the times people think
you're crazy.
Right, if you're bringing outvision to stuff.
Like it's not a fun.
It's not a fun spot to be in.
No, it's not.
It's superbly frustrating ashell.
Mark Zweig (18:49):
I have been Because everybody else doesn't see it.
I can't think, I know.
Eric Howerton (18:54):
I've been with my life in a frustrating bubble,
Like my wife can't see it, mypartners can't see it, my staff
definitely can't see it, no onecan see it and I drive Right
Absolutely insane.
And then you have to go to mylittle spaces and understand
that it's okay and that I'm youknow I'm right.
Mark Zweig (19:12):
And you gotta chip away at trying to convince them
and sell them.
Yes On your vision.
Eric Howerton (19:16):
And then they make decisions and you're like
what the hell are you doing?
That is not a lie.
That's not gonna work out.
Well, the numbers work, but thevision is terrible.
Mark Zweig (19:25):
But in a partnership somebody's gotta have that role
.
But yeah, the inside versusoutside, yeah, I think the
visionary versus the doer, yep,you know not to say that the
visionary never does Right.
The doer never has any kind ofinspiration or sense of a
(19:45):
greater possibility.
Because they have to.
Eric Howerton (19:49):
And you both have to be good with that.
Yeah, and respect that.
Like, what I've been blessedwith with my partners is that
they greatly respected what Idid, even though it's very soft,
like you can't put your handson, like I'm not cranking out
freaking spreadsheets, right, Iunderstand.
You know what I'm saying, yeah,but they appreciated and were
grateful and allowed me to justbe me, Right, you know.
(20:12):
But I was also on the flip side.
You were allowing them to betotally yeah and I let them like
, I mean, if we brought both mypartners in, that I've had they
would.
You know, I'm actually had JSin here and I mean like, but I
mean the ability for me to getthe hell out of that way, out of
their way, you know, wasprobably the greatest, allowed
(20:33):
them to be who they are, Right.
Mark Zweig (20:35):
I agree with you 100%.
I call that abdication.
Okay, you know you're justabdicate to them.
You just this is your domain,go for it.
You know it's not delegation atall, it's abdication.
Eric Howerton (20:50):
And then there's been many times, too, where I've
been like I probably didn'treally agree yeah, didn't, it
was the the what are the cut thejuice wasn't worth the squeeze,
right a pigment battles.
Mark Zweig (21:01):
Yeah, you want to win the war, not the battle.
Eric Howerton (21:04):
Yeah, man, sometimes like it may not be the
best thing, might not be thebest thing for a lot of reasons,
but right you know, allow it tohappen and then support them
and back them up right with theteam, like I never.
I never countered my partner,not one single time you can't.
Mark Zweig (21:20):
It's just like parenting.
It's the same thing.
If you go against your partner,they're gonna be friggin
furious with you and be.
Your kids are gonna be confusedas hell, confused, okay, so you
can't, yeah, you can't do it,and if you do it right you can
actually use that a lot like man.
Eric Howerton (21:37):
I'll be like man.
I mean Alex.
Alex said no, I'm sorry, Idon't.
Mark Zweig (21:40):
yeah, you claim against each other.
Yeah, right now you use them asthe bad guy.
That's the other thing.
Do you ever notice that theoutside guy is usually not the
bad guy?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
I like that.
Mark Zweig (21:54):
The outside guy is the nice guy.
Yeah, man, everybody loves theoutside guy.
Eric Howerton (21:59):
The inside guy that coddies up, sob, dude up,
you know, or she is all thehorrible you know, and folks
will come to you trying toconvince you, cuz you're the
good guy, you're probably gonnasay, yes, right, but I always be
like man.
I don't know, I I wouldprobably take another look at
that for you.
Go talk to J S, man Like man,I'll talk with them as well, but
you know, I don't think it'sgonna work and then I'll let J S
(22:22):
just be the bad guy.
I think I was gonna be the badguy.
Mark Zweig (22:25):
Exactly, I hear you.
I think that that you know.
So another characteristic ofgood partners is they have to be
Putting in the same amount ofeffort that you are in intensity
.
Yes, you know, and if they'renot doing that, then there's
gonna be a problem.
Totally that course.
That's the problem that peoplelike you and I have, because we
(22:47):
get involved in so many thingsthat then we're not giving the
full attention to the one thingthat the partner may be involved
in, and then that can make themResent you.
Yeah, but you got to be carefulup, you got to make sure you're
still earning your Hell.
Eric Howerton (23:03):
Yeah, you know that's when you just say, hey,
like it's not worth it to sleep,mm-hmm, it's a.
And then you.
Then you get twisted up withyour spouse partner at the crib.
Yeah, I mean, then you got tomake good on that like it's just
a whirlwind man, it's a greatlife.
Mark Zweig (23:19):
It is so much fun it is, and the real light, yeah.
The relationships, all that,yeah.
I will say this, though, and Ithink you would agree it gets
easier the older you get.
Yeah, when you're young, it'slike Things upset you more than
maybe they should.
I don't know what that is.
It's like.
With age comes a certain amountof perspective that allows you
(23:45):
to carry on in spite ofDisagreements or problems or,
yeah, add, feelings you knowthat might have really derailed
you when you're younger.
Eric Howerton (23:56):
I think that's probably I would call that just
emotional intelligence.
Like you go, if you grow up andyou start recognizing, like you
know, you have experiences isand Experiences in your, and
you're like that.
You know why was I so bent outof shape about that?
Cuz it didn't make anydifference.
And then the next time you havecertain things like that
happened, like you, you juststay calmer, like you just.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, it doesn't.
Eric Howerton (24:18):
It doesn't blow your lid.
It's not the end of thefreaking world anymore.
Yep and I think that goes intois like I think I'm a better
partner today, that I was wayback.
Oh, I definitely think so.
Mark Zweig (24:28):
I agree.
I mean, I remember fighting.
You are a lot better partnernow than you were.
Eric Howerton (24:32):
Oh, big time.
No, well, we could call Alexnow, like he saw me grow up
quite a bit, you know, in thoseearly days.
I say for him too, though Imean like it took five Took some
time.
Mark Zweig (24:45):
Yeah, we're, I mean, we're still learning.
Okay, oh, we're, that's thegreat thing.
I was saying this to somebodythe other day.
It's like they're like I don'twant to change, I'm gonna be
just the way I am.
I'm like You're in your 20s.
I'm not the same person I wasfive years ago than I am now.
Oh, at all, hopefully.
(25:06):
Yeah, I'm.
No, I'm not.
I hope I've learned somethingover that time.
Oh, you have, bro, I've watchedyou now, so much Back at you.
Eric Howerton (25:15):
that comment yeah , like you've grown up.
Mark Zweig (25:17):
No, it's true, though you do, hopefully you're
still learning, which is anothergood characteristic of a
partner is somebody who can sayI'm still learning, I'm not done
, I'm not set, I'm not rigid,I've, I have the capacity to
change.
Yeah, you know, yeah, I learnednew stuff, absolutely so.
Eric Howerton (25:39):
And you know, I think that too is like there's
also a level of caring andgenuine concern about your
partner's well-being, likethere's been many times that
I've been able to spot in mypartner that man, you're not
Like, you're not, you're not ahundred percent, not a hundred
percent.
Man, things are going on withyou Right, like, and you have to
be somebody that they can leanon.
I mean, dude, it's.
It's like friendship, marriage,business, everything wrapped up
(26:03):
into it.
And I think that that's why alot of people you know might
have a pretty significant horrorstory, you know, about
partnership.
It's they.
They could very well have pickedthe right partner, but because
they weren't being a goodpartner, yeah you know,
undermined it and sure, and itbecomes more problematic for you
, like you literally have to beable to let things go.
(26:23):
You have to be able to trustthe person, you know, you have
to be able to communicate, youknow, and you can't duck and
hide, you know.
I mean, it's just, there's justso much to it and I'm a big
believer in partnerships.
I mean, I tolerate theidiosyncrasies, totally.
Mark Zweig (26:39):
I mean, I, I, fred, and, and I love him.
But we used to sit in meetingsand we were young yeah, okay, we
, you know, it was just me andFred and maybe some other people
but he always put his leg upagainst the table and then would
move the table like this thewhole time.
It would just absolutely, I gotthe word.
(27:00):
I can't even pay any attentionto what he's saying or thinking
or anything.
The moving of the table isdriving me insane today.
I can totally tolerate that,can you?
Yeah, it's all good now right.
But those idiosyncrasies that weall have, yeah, you have to be
able to go past them.
Eric Howerton (27:21):
You know that is so true.
And I mean, you know I'veraised my hand saying I probably
got a lot that would pisssomebody off.
You know you never pissed meoff.
Well, I know, because you and Ihurt we're on the outside I
mean there's not much that Ithink that you and I could do.
I'd be like, oh dude, that washilarious, that's great.
Mark Zweig (27:42):
Yeah, we're too much alike.
That's the problem.
Eric Howerton (27:45):
We are for sure.
But you know, I mean, like youknow, I've always been a big
believer in escaping.
When you need to escape inbusiness, like sometimes you got
to take 30 minutes, take acouple hours to get back in it.
You know, and yes, and you know, my brain is regroup,
retreating Totally.
My partners were different manthey're, they're able to focus
and stay, you know, stay in lineand keep that, just that
(28:07):
consistency.
I'm the most inconsistentperson that I think that I've
ever met, maybe other than you.
You're pretty inconsistent toyou, like you're freaking.
Mark Zweig (28:15):
I never, I never.
Consistency wasn't my goal.
Okay, I mean obviously that'swhat I'm saying.
Like you're the mostinconsistent person I think I've
ever met, I'm consistent insome ways though, like I always
pay my bills on time and Ialways do certain things that
you know I.
I comply with laws andregulations and forms and bills
(28:37):
and deadlines you do.
You think, things I comply with.
That taught me that, butconsistency in all other ways,
no, it's never been a goal.
Eric Howerton (28:46):
Yeah, I remember back in the day like when we
were paying bills of our AP waspretty high.
Yeah, we got back in the daythat was a yeah, but you were
relentless on.
As soon as we got some paymentin, it's like, okay, who are you
gonna pay off today?
Get it done, relentless likeyou.
There was nothing else that youwere focused on that day other
than how many wires were sittingand you, the other room
(29:11):
slamming your head look tablescreen.
We did.
We sit that out, yet we gottaget that out.
I mean it's just like.
And then in the next thing youknow, they were back at.
We're screaming where we werethe morning broke again and I've
been my brain.
I was like, don't you want tokeep this for a few days?
and we have no, you didn't, man.
I mean that.
That was a good lesson.
Mark Zweig (29:31):
Well, no only because you know people.
If you're doing business withpeople, they want to do bit.
Yeah they like you and will dofavors for you.
If you're a fast payer, yes.
If you're a slow payer, thenyou're gonna get De-prioritized.
They'll work, they'll do stufffor you if they got nothing
better to do.
I don't want to be that kind ofa client or, you know, a buyer
(29:56):
of whatever they're selling.
Eric Howerton (29:57):
I just don't.
I think another term inrelation to everything we're
talking about is that there is100% such thing as business
karma man.
Yes, there is, bro, like I have.
Mark Zweig (30:08):
You know, put out good and good.
Yeah, you put out bad and bad.
Bad stuff happens.
Eric Howerton (30:14):
That's an episode on its own man and like what
are all the details and what isgood and bad karma?
Because I mean like it will?
I have seen it happen myselfand I've seen.
You know from a couple ofthings that I did.
I actually told you that Itexted you like the way I left
is like why I'm not very proudof you.
Mark Zweig (30:31):
I know, I know I never know didn't get it.
I know you didn't man.
Eric Howerton (30:34):
It was awesome.
Yeah, I didn't feel good aboutit, yeah, and I felt like that.
That that returned to me in Ina in a way that that was not the
most pleasant thing, you know,and and so.
But that's the lesson learned,and you know that's not that big
of a deal, because I don't doanything really bad, just, yeah,
you just move it on, but I wasa kid man, yeah.
Mark Zweig (30:53):
I was just a kid, it's okay.
Okay, I Never had any illfeelings towards you, ever at
all.
Well, I appreciate that youwere always a good person to
work with and you always triedto do you could do to make
things successful and, yeah,keep everybody happy.
Eric Howerton (31:08):
Well, I appreciate that man, but I
didn't feel good about but youknow.
But then I've seen other peoplein throughout the business that
did not do good things and it'sdetrimental.
I'm not even like it when itwas going on the things that
weren't doing good and I waslike it, obviously didn't feel
(31:28):
good when it happened to me, butI certainly didn't even like to
know that down the road it'sgoing to multiply on them.
I'd like karma thing, like manthat is.
I hate that for them.
Mark Zweig (31:38):
We only have one reputation, so that's obviously
super, super critical.
You've got to protect that witheverything you got.
But back on partners okay, whenI do see unethical behavior of
a partner, that's a problem.
And or super selfish behavior,all right, the selfishness is
(32:02):
bad.
It's really hard to once I makethat determination that I think
somebody's being selfish orunethical.
I'm going to be pretty harsh inmy judgment of them and it's
going to be really difficult forus to be partners.
What would you do in asituation like going forward.
Eric Howerton (32:20):
I mean like how would you hate, I mean, how
would you?
Mark Zweig (32:22):
You know, the first time we had Swig or Swig White,
we had like 23 or 24 partners.
Now, fred and I combined, Ithink we still had like 75 to
78% of the company.
So, put on that order, okay.
At the time we sold it.
However, you know, we had allthese other partners in there
(32:45):
and the way.
Honestly, a few times I justhad to let people go, partners
or not, we're going to part ways, gotcha, it's not working out,
so we're just going to just bombout and yes, okay, and we had
very well-documented buybackprovisions and time, you know,
to pay back their ownership andvaluation methodology.
(33:07):
Baked it in the ownershipagreements.
Eric Howerton (33:10):
Where do you see?
Where do you?
Mark Zweig (33:12):
see S Corp.
S Corp.
Yeah, never had any question orproblem with any of that, never
got challenged.
Everybody signed the agreements.
Everybody lived and died by thesame agreement.
Eric Howerton (33:23):
Got it and that's what's important about
corporate structures.
Yes, that's why you have to getyour.
I mean, like you can't go tolegal zoom and just download and
then sign documents, man, itwill freaking, it will hurt.
Mark Zweig (33:37):
It's going to hurt.
I mean, I just seen case aftercase of it Case.
I mean, even people I work withat the U of A, who teach
entrepreneurship, who actuallyare entrepreneurs, have made
some of the classic mistakes inthat regard Of undocumented
relationships or poorlydocumented relationships with
(33:59):
business partners.
Yeah, and then they end up inthe newspaper, yeah, with
lawsuits.
Eric Howerton (34:06):
Yeah, and that's not good.
That goes back to thereputation thing, whether it's
true, valid or not.
Mark Zweig (34:10):
Exactly, it's toxic.
It casts a shadow over you.
Yeah, that's going to be reallyhard to escape.
Well, make sure that peopledoubt, right?
Yeah, and people talk about itforever.
I mean, we live in an area it'sgot like 600,000 people now and
people around here are stilltalking about stuff that people
did wrong 20 years ago.
(34:31):
Have you noticed that?
True, very true, it's true.
Eric Howerton (34:34):
Yeah, it's a big deal it is.
It's so like when you'regetting in, if you are going to
get in a partnership, you bothhave to be on the same page in
the beginning, like how thoselegalities are set up, and you
have to believe in that document, right, that corporate set up,
yes, and all the things youmentioned, yes, and you have to
be aligned and that's yourguiding principle.
It is, it's got to be there.
(34:55):
And another thing that you saidat earlier values.
So I did a values exercise along time ago that it was after
I was in partnership and, man,it was ruthless, trying to
identify those with my partner,you know, because they aren't
the same person I am.
I believed in it.
Sure, they were kind of goingalong that that was such a big
(35:20):
deal to establish values, thecharacteristics and the beliefs
that I have, along with mypartner allotting to that to set
the values of the company.
Mark Zweig (35:31):
It's super important .
I think most of the exercisesI've seen to define values in
companies are absolute crap, butit's super important.
I mean, don't you agree though?
Yeah, I mean the values.
They've got these sort of emptystatements of platitudes that
they don't actually live by, andthen that's just what they want
(35:53):
to be, not play on Aspirationalvalues.
I mean, values are values.
They're not aspirational in mymind.
Yeah, true Goals can beaspirational, or a vision can be
aspirational, but values yougotta live those you do you know
you do.
Eric Howerton (36:09):
It has to be within your being and it's
basically an exercise of tryingto get out between you and your
partner but you deeply alreadybelieve in and who you identify
as you are right and then youbring those together and that
actually defines the companyRight, you know, if you're those
two part it should, yeah, itshould, and then that's the
(36:30):
expectation.
And what I loved about thatexercise is it helped us
identify who we actually hire.
Mark Zweig (36:37):
Yes.
Eric Howerton (36:38):
That is super critical.
Super critical because if thefolks you're hiring, or even
vendors or customers you dealwith Right and when you don't
want to lie to that, it's goingto be devastating.
It is, it absolutely is.
That's what wreaks havoc allover the place.
Mark Zweig (36:52):
Yeah, most companies , though.
I mean, they don't act likethat's really within their
control to hire people that havethe right values.
They don't act like they canshed any clients who don't
really have the right values.
They, you know, isn't that true, though?
It's like, well, you know it'shard to hire people, so we're
gonna hire, you know so and soover there, yeah, it's kind of
(37:15):
doesn't really have half of whatwe want in a person.
Yeah, you know.
Eric Howerton (37:22):
JS taught me that so well.
I like just watching him abouthow he brought people in the
company.
He was just he's genius man.
He was just so diligent aboutit and was patient, thoughtful,
studied.
Mark Zweig (37:33):
It's an essential skill if you want to build a
business beyond some smallbusiness that goes nowhere.
Eric Howerton (37:40):
So true, being able to identify those people
that are the ones that have whatyou need in the right
orientation, and then get themon your team Yep, and the
reality is that you know, andthe partnership thing is not
only was you know we strong andweak in other areas and able to
do that with the values, butthen it's just a matter of time
(38:01):
to dedicate to those things.
Mark Zweig (38:03):
Yes.
Eric Howerton (38:03):
You know JS would spend so much time Like he even
to you know the end at WhiteSpider.
He would interview everybodythat was coming to that company.
Mark Zweig (38:13):
Yeah, I think that's smart Dude, so smart.
If you're running a business,why wouldn't you care about
everybody on the team?
Yeah, I mean, if you were afootball coach, would you let
somebody else recruit a playerand sign them.
That's a good point.
Without meeting them, yeah,what the.
That'd be pretty stupid, andmaking some kind of
determination yourself aboutwhether they were gonna be right
(38:35):
or not.
Eric Howerton (38:35):
That's right, that's crazy.
Yeah, I mean it's.
You know, it's a.
Mark Zweig (38:40):
We're building a winning team here, man.
That's it, man.
Eric Howerton (38:43):
Champions, yes, champions, yes.
Look man, I just wanna bearound like five to 10 people
that are freaking champions.
I agree, bro, like I feel likeI can do anything under the sun
with a small amount of freakingClass A champions.
Mark Zweig (38:59):
It's true, and it's not like we don't encounter bad
things or setbacks, right, Imean, I gotta say it's like
there's tons of setbacks,there's tons of negative
information out there and damnnear everything I get involved
with.
Ooh.
But we've got the vision.
I know you've got the valuesystem and that you're working
(39:21):
hard over here, just like me.
Okay, that's it.
We will overcome whatever theobstacles are.
We will overcome Hell.
Yeah, all right, it's notdelusional if we're gonna do
what we need to do.
It is delusional if we just saywe're gonna overcome.
By the way, we're not gonna doanything we need to do to fix
the situation or get past thisobstacle.
Eric Howerton (39:44):
Yeah, I mean, my thing is on a resume and even in
an interview.
How do you measure the get ashit that somebody has?
Mark Zweig (39:51):
Yeah, I know.
Well, it's hard.
It is hard.
You can ask them for stories.
That's what you look for.
Eric Howerton (39:58):
Yeah, you can sense that when somebody is
self-determined and wants to bepart of a team that are all
rising up Doing stuff man.
Mark Zweig (40:08):
Well, yeah, and have standards of excellence.
We used to always go look atthe cars in the parking lot to
see what they look like.
If they were driving like areally trashy car filled up with
junk in the interior, yeah, nah, it didn't have to be anything
fantastic, but are theymaintaining what they've got?
There you go.
Eric Howerton (40:28):
Taking care.
Yeah, are they happy Are?
Mark Zweig (40:30):
they proud of what they have.
It's there a standard that theyhave to keep in every way?
Eric Howerton (40:36):
Yeah, Remember, you looked at my car.
Actually I can't remember.
Mark Zweig (40:40):
You had like a Lexus , yeah, an old Lexus.
Eric Howerton (40:44):
Yeah, I remember.
Yeah, it was like a.
I bought it for my dad, I think, and he drove it for like 30
years.
Oh, it wasn't that old, forGod's sakes, but I remember you
judging me about it.
Mark Zweig (40:56):
No, I judged me, I didn't judge you from that.
Your car was fine.
I do remember, though, thatremember Katen, who worked for
us, and we harassed himendlessly when he bought a
Toyota.
What is that?
The luxury, big Toyota that hebought?
Not a Camry, but the next levelof Cressida.
(41:19):
No, it wasn't a Cressida, itwas gosh.
Whatever, it was just a bigsedan.
Yeah, it was a big sedan, andwe looked at the average age of
the buyer.
It was like 72 years old orsomething.
We had a little too much fun.
Eric Howerton (41:34):
That guy man busted him man, I just talked to
him the other day.
Mark Zweig (41:38):
He lives in India, he's got his MBA and he works
for a private equity firm hestarted getting good.
Eric Howerton (41:44):
He started talking towards the end.
He was returning to smack talkman.
And I remember there was acouple of them and they were
like he shut me up, that's histerrible.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
You know he's getting so good at it.
Eric Howerton (41:55):
So partnerships would you advise as a beginning,
new or even a returningentrepreneur?
Partnerships, are they good orare they bad?
Mark Zweig (42:08):
I think they're good if you get the right person.
What do you think?
Eric Howerton (42:12):
I would say yes to that, and then if you
understand how to be a goodpartner Like you can't.
Mark Zweig (42:20):
No, you're right, you have to be, because you
can't operate with impunity.
You can't be selfish.
You got to know that you'repart of the team.
You got to carry your weight.
It's definitely a reciprocaldeal, for sure.
Eric Howerton (42:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think that there's also
just like I didn't.
I know what I had mypartnership for.
There was no like deep analysisabout it, but there was a good
sense and, to your point, I knewthat they were really good at
something that I was, that Iwasn't really good at, and also
I had no interest to be good at.
(42:54):
Yeah, Like I think that's wherea lot of the magic happened for
me is like I did not.
Not only was I not good at that, but I'd not have zero desire
to compete with you in thegoodness of whatever you're good
at.
Yes, and let you roll with that.
Yes, you know, and then respectthat and appreciate it, being
grateful and thankful and yeah,exactly.
Mark Zweig (43:16):
Well, you've always been so nice, you know how to
treat people.
Yeah, yeah, somebody taught youToyota Avalon.
That's what he had, and mymother-in-law had one too.
Eric Howerton (43:27):
That's an Avalon.
Mark Zweig (43:28):
I'm telling you, and especially if you get it in
that like champagne color ohyeah, that's what his was right,
yeah it screams old man.
Okay, this guy was like 22, 23.
Eric Howerton (43:40):
What are you doing?
Mark Zweig (43:41):
We're giving.
Yeah, it's like Like you don'teven go to car lots by yourself
anymore.
Do you want to get any dates?
I mean what?
Do you have your AARP card?
Eric Howerton (43:54):
Right, he's just trying to get discounts, man,
that's what he was trying to do.
Mark Zweig (43:57):
I get him now In Zanya and I went to see.
Do you?
Yes, we get all the seniordiscounts.
I was left to see that Ferrarimovie Christmas Day Eve was
awesome.
Have you seen it yet?
No, no, enzo Ferrari man, hewas a gutsy guy.
I'll tell you.
Eric Howerton (44:14):
I love it.
It's a good business.
So you got a discount to go see.
Yeah, we get the senior.
Mark Zweig (44:17):
Fantastic, mark, congratulations.
It's like 10 something versuslike 14 or whatever.
Eric Howerton (44:23):
You know, Well done bro.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yeah.
Eric Howerton (44:25):
Do you get that when you go to your fast food
joints too, because you'realways you know I hadn't thought
about that.
Mark Zweig (44:30):
I should ask, bro, you have seen like Burger King?
Eric Howerton (44:33):
Yes, I get discounts too, man.
I think they started the seniordiscount thing, bro.
You need to take advantage ofthat I do.
What did you eat today?
Mark Zweig (44:42):
Olive and I, my 17-year-old, we went to Arsigas
toast oh wow.
Eric Howerton (44:47):
OK, well, that's because you had Olive with you.
Mark Zweig (44:49):
That you did that Exactly.
It was her request, otherwiseI'd have had like a nice sausage
, biscuit and hash browns.
Eric Howerton (44:56):
Do you go to hard McDonald's?
Do you ever go hard?
We don't have any.
Do we have a hearties and fail?
Mark Zweig (45:01):
hardies is gone and oh man, that's terrible went out
of business.
Eric Howerton (45:04):
Nobody went there , yeah yeah, it was kind of say
they didn't revive, nowrevitalize themselves.
They, my grandparents, but theycamped out at hardies back.
Did they like hardies?
They loved hardies, the hashbrowns, like it was what they
did.
Mark Zweig (45:17):
Did they go to stock car races?
Hardies was always a bigsponsor of that.
I don't know that one thing.
Yeah, your dad was a professor.
Eric Howerton (45:24):
Yeah, so is he still?
Yeah, no, no, he's been retiredfor about 10 years now.
Okay, he's the Psychologist.
He was the chair of thepsychology department.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Yeah, he's a thinker.
Eric Howerton (45:35):
Yeah, he's still things.
That's awesome.
I thought of myself as I getolder just sitting there
thinking like what am I thinkingabout?
Mark Zweig (45:42):
But I just went to, so I went somewhere.
You know that famous quote fromMark Twain.
It was like when he was 18 hecouldn't believe how dumb his
dad was, and when he was 20,it's something to this effect
yeah, but when he was 25 hecouldn't believe how much his
father had learned over the nextlast seven years.
That's a good point.
(46:04):
A little appreciation forovertime, right, big time man.
Well, listen, eric, I think ourconversation is done for today.
Time is crap.
That's great.
We.
We encourage our listeners towrite us with whatever questions
you'd like for us to deal withyou, and it's something that
(46:28):
we're gonna start reading someof those and talking about them.
The new year, they shout.
The new year coming up in inthe new year.
We're, as we record this, theyear is almost over, mm-hmm, and
thank God, christmas is over.
Bahum bug is what I'd like tosay to that.
Ah.
Eric Howerton (46:47):
Humbug?
Why do you say bottom of theChristmas?
Mark Zweig (46:49):
if you looked at my MX bill for the month, you would
know why I'm saying bahum bug.
Okay, it's staggering.
It's your great with theeconomy, man, it's stressful
this time of year, yeah you knowyeah it really is.
I mean just trying to geteverything done and make
everybody happy and go all theplaces that you're supposed to
(47:10):
go, and you Know what I do lovethe whole.
Eric Howerton (47:12):
You know what I love the holidays most about?
Yeah, okay, yeah, you see whatI mean.
Yeah, you did some stuff there,didn't buddy?
He went out.
Mark Zweig (47:21):
Didn't do anything.
It's an boss yeah for people.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Yeah.
Eric Howerton (47:27):
What I've always loved about holidays is that
people ghost out, and it givesme that one to two weeks time,
relentless focus, to plan theattack of the shit.
I hear you I'm doing, I canbring the shank out.
Yeah, january 2nd at 7 am.
(47:47):
Baby, I love it, I do too.
And then everybody's like, oh,whoa, yeah, you're back.
Here we go.
Yeah, this is how we roll.
Mark Zweig (47:55):
That's it, the the new year.
It starts a hole.
We got a whole new blank sheetahead of us.
Eric Howerton (48:00):
It's what's possible, but I got it all
figured out the last two weeks.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Yeah, that's good.
It's been a good thing.
All right, man.
Mark Zweig (48:07):
All right.
Well, hey, everybody the other.
I guess the other thing I wantto say is make sure you log into
our website.
We don't have to log in.
Well, our we're gonna have awebsite and and and sign up for
our email list www.
Big talk about small business,calm, and If you're interested
in becoming a sponsor of ourprogram, we have somebody here
(48:31):
who would love to talk with you.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Yeah.
Mark Zweig (48:35):
And yeah, who can, who can help you out with that?
Yeah, again, I mean, we're notgonna take just anybody as
sponsors, that's right.
We better believe in whatthey're doing you better line to
our values.
Eric Howerton (48:46):
That's right.
Damn it, yep.
But if you are a Sausage, eggand biscuit company, we'd love
to Especially.
Mark Zweig (48:56):
You can supply some of those to us here in the
studio.
Eric Howerton (48:58):
Yeah, if you're McDonald's and you want to
sponsor with just unlimitedsupply of Fast food for Mark's
why you can, you can get it bigMac.
Mark Zweig (49:10):
She like big Mac, I love big.
My daughter Olive, who'ssitting in our lobby right now,
she told me she had a dream lastnight.
We're, a big Mac meal cost 75bucks.
Eric Howerton (49:23):
What?
Yeah, oh, she had a dream abouta dream about it.
Yeah, dude, that could be wherewe're at one day.
Mark Zweig (49:28):
I let me tell you every time I drive through
Starbucks with my kids in themorning and pay 20 bucks, I'm
like this is ridiculous.
Eric Howerton (49:36):
You can't get a.
I mean I, my daughter gets likeshe bought like a seven dollar
and fifty cent drink the otherday might get that.
Mark Zweig (49:42):
a tall Frappuccino, which is tall in their
nomenclature, means small, yeahyeah, just another one of my pet
peeves.
Okay, and it's friggin Dollarsfor a like a 12 ounce drink.
Eric Howerton (49:55):
It's insane man but then they want to tip.
Why is it?
Can we have an episode aboutwhy everybody wants a tip?
Mark Zweig (50:03):
Do we want tips, but we don't get them, for God's
sake, that's dude, it drives menuts.
Eric Howerton (50:09):
I'm like man you like, why do I have it?
It's so embarrassing.
Now, you like, you pull outyour debit card, yeah, and
you're just trying to buysomething and it says tip 20%,
25%, I know, or no tip, and Ihave to sit there and push that
no tip button and then they'relike you, so be.
Mark Zweig (50:29):
If I could spit in your food right now, I would,
but it's already out here.
I just feel like it's so rudeman it grew up in the server in
the right, I know you worked atholiday and I recall, yeah, bro,
I've worked for the tip man,right, like I talked for the tip
.
Eric Howerton (50:44):
Now, if somebody's nice to me and
broadens my day, I'll tip them.
Sure, actually, I'll tip them.
Well, right.
But I mean, you got work forthat tip man.
I worked for the tip.
I hadn't expecting you to giveme a tip.
Mark Zweig (50:56):
I bought two smoked turkeys from a local restaurant
for Thanksgiving.
I ordered them and advanced andI go to pick them up and it's
like 150 bucks.
But what's the tip?
Like a tip, I just picked upthese damn turkeys, like you
should, just to give you like 30bucks.
They handle me, you should havepayroll.
Eric Howerton (51:14):
Okay, I'm worked into the props of my turkey man.
Mark Zweig (51:18):
Anyway, well, that's a subject for another day, but,
um, in any case, this has beenanother episode of big talk
about small business, and we'llsee you next time, thank you,
thank you, thanks for tuninginto this episode of big talk
about small business.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming
shows, be sure to head over toour website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the ask the host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at big talk about small
(51:58):
business and be sure to headover to our website To read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
All right, everybody welcome back.
It's another episode of bigtalk about small business.
I'm here with my partner andfriend, Eric Howerton.
Good morning, mark Zwaag.
Good morning.
Eric Howerton (00:19):
How are you doing today?
Yeah, I was running a littlelate for our podcast, shamefully
.
That's okay.
It's like I've had to apologizeto you, for I mean, I still
feel bad Even during the middleof this podcast.
Don't feel bad, I love you.
Mark Zweig (00:32):
All is no.
Sin will not be forgiven.
It's unconditional love.
Eric Howerton (00:37):
Thank you I appreciate that, speaking of
unconditional love.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes.
Eric Howerton (00:42):
I think we're going to talk about partnerships
today.
Business partnerships yeah, Ithink that's a good one to talk
about.
Yeah, because I think thatthere is some unconditionalness
that goes on when you're inbusiness partnership and it's
just like being married man.
I think it's actually almostmore.
Yeah, it really is, Causeyou're so entwined and tied,
Except that you don't have thatway to make up that you have
(01:04):
when you're married.
What are you talking about?
I'm confused.
Mark, can you elaborate please?
No, I'm sure our audience oflove to hear elaboration.
Mark Zweig (01:15):
I will not elaborate on that.
But no, it's true though you dospend, as many of us spend more
time with those businesspartners than we do with our,
our life partners Totally.
Eric Howerton (01:27):
And the other thing is is that I've noticed,
is that, uh, or experienced, isthat you have to like a lot of
times in marriage, rightPartnership.
You don't have to necessarilyhit problems head on as they
happen, like, and of course thatdoesn't ever lead to anything
good but you really don't haveto face a lot of the things you
know, like if there's some shitbetween you you can kind of
(01:50):
float it out for a few years.
Mark Zweig (01:52):
It's devastating Not getting that kind of advice is
a good thing.
It is devastating.
I've always subscribed to thattheory.
We got to make up before we goto sleep.
Eric Howerton (02:01):
That's a good one , you know that's a good one.
Yeah, but in business, like yougot to kind of make up before
the next meeting, yeah, that'sgoing to happen in an hour,
because if you walk in,especially with your team, or
even with vendors and customers,it doesn't matter.
Like you got to be unifiedbecause people will say that
crap Like I can sniff that froma mile away.
Mark Zweig (02:23):
No, no question about it.
But yeah, good partners areinvaluable and bad partners are
like toxic Terribly toxic.
Eric Howerton (02:30):
Yes, so I've been lucky in my career.
Yeah, I really have.
Yeah, I really have.
You've had a few good ones, forsure, yeah, so what do you
think is like a makeup of a goodpart?
Like, ok, so our audiencethinking about starting a
business or own a business or abusiness, yeah, right.
And I often get that questionof like, hey, I want to start a
(02:54):
business, you know, should I geta partner?
I've heard horror stories abouthaving partners and my response
is always like it's so muchbetter with a great partner.
That is, I agree.
Why is that?
Why do you feel that it is?
Mark Zweig (03:07):
Well, I'm sure and I think, knowing the kinds of
part at least a couple of thepartners that you had, I think
you would agree with this You'vegot to find people who are
different from yourself and havedifferent skills than you have
the more, but the same sort ofvalue system and same plans for
what you want to do with thebusiness.
(03:27):
Yeah, the same idea of what youwant to do for the business,
but different skills, becausethe more the same they are, then
the more likely you are to haveconflict.
Yeah, very true, you knowyou're treading in each other's
territory.
Eric Howerton (03:42):
And I think that you make a good point like the
values, but also the values butalso the same vision, right,
yeah, absolutely, like you know,but that difference that you
have is so strong because tohave someone else involved in
the business that is absolutely,relentlessly committed, yes,
you know, and they're not goingto bounce.
(04:02):
And if they want to bounce,that's not going to be an easy
thing Like you're kind of stuckin it.
Right, and to know that youhave that loyalty and that
commitment that helps solidify,like that you do actually have
somebody with you along the rideand if they're different than
you and they can think about,they can have that vision, and
then they can apply thatstrength.
Yes, you know, and make surethat it's Check this out, done.
(04:26):
Right, I'm telling you, dude,like, if you can't, it's so
valuable you can't pay somebodyto run your books.
No, well, you can.
Well, you, okay, and do itright, like, legitimately right
for the business.
Like I mean, there's people thatare smart and they know how to
move things around and you knowthat I've yet to experience
somebody, especially in thefinancial side, that genuinely
(04:50):
cares.
Right, it can see red flags inthe books.
Right, like, if you'reoverpaying for something.
You're a county.
Your bookkeepers are going tosay, hey, you know what?
You should really watch out forthis, because if you keep this
behavior, you're going to be outof business or it's going to be
hurting.
You're going to be borrowingmore money the whole partner
that would.
Mark Zweig (05:07):
Yeah, I mean a good partner is committed like you
are.
I mean it's so valuable theydon't want to go broke anymore
than you do, absolutely.
But I mean we could talk aboutthe numbers all day, because I
can't tell you how manycompanies I've been involved
with that have bad numbers, andI'm dealing with it right now
with one of them that you'reaware of and it's just just
(05:28):
trying to get the handle on.
That is so important becausenobody knew anything about the
numbers in the firm yeah, nobody.
Eric Howerton (05:35):
Yeah, you know, and in time point you can't,
well, but you can't pay someonelike a vendor or an employee.
Mark Zweig (05:42):
No, you can't.
Eric Howerton (05:43):
No, that's going to look at those numbers the way
that you're looking at rightnumbers, because you actually
care about the outcome of thatbusiness.
So many vendors and so manypeople are gonna go along for
the ride.
Everybody wants to get paid.
Mark Zweig (05:58):
Yeah, you're kidding .
And if they don't wanna rufflethe feathers, the boss, they
don't get paid.
Eric Howerton (06:05):
Boom, right, Dude that's a huge point.
Ruffling feathers Like whatperson is.
If I'm getting paid a salaryand that salary's important for
me and my family and my future,I am not gonna jeopardize that
salary.
There's not many people thatwill.
Mark Zweig (06:22):
Well you might, because you have confidence that
you can go do something on yourown.
Well, that's true, that's true.
But you're different, right?
Eric Howerton (06:29):
You're wired differently than most, that's
true, but most folks they won'tapproach a red flag situation
Right or like we can't do thisRight, Like literally putting
your foot down and saying, man,it's gotta stop, and then facing
that conflict head on.
I mean you just can't.
But a partner, Partner can,Partner can and will.
Mark Zweig (06:49):
Yeah, if they have the right skills and should not
follow in the same path thatyou're on personally.
Yes, right, or the sameorientation you have.
Eric Howerton (06:59):
And, speaking of that, there's times in business
when things like just from amental standpoint like you can
get too much on your plate, orthere's other things in life
that are going on and to have apartner and you know what's
going to Right, they can take upthe slack Boom.
Mark Zweig (07:14):
Yeah, it's super.
I mean several times in my lifethat's been the case and I'm
very grateful for that.
But yeah, I mean, the rightpartner is invaluable.
But I think a lot of timespeople get the wrong partner
because they go oh, bob's myfriend.
We went to college together, wewere in the same fraternity
(07:34):
together, or he was in my dormwith me and Bob and I have been
good friends all this time andBob wants to do something with
me, right, not necessarily theright person, and especially
when you're really tight friends, that a lot of times it's not
documented.
Well, very true, okay, I gotanother one of those situations
(07:55):
I'm dealing with right now.
The guy died who was partnerswith somebody else I know and
nothing's documented.
Oh no, so you can imagine thenightmare trying to Like you're
talking about.
as far as the organization andthe structure yes, the LLC,
operating agreement, lendingdocuments, things like that no
(08:16):
way.
Capital contributions notdocumented it's just as horrible
.
But there was too much trust ina way because of the personal
relationship feeling we can workanything out.
Eric Howerton (08:29):
That's a big point because it's we might like
if you and I went into businesstogether.
I might trust you.
But we know now well enoughthat setting up a true LLC with
the right formalities and thelegal documents is so critical.
Or corporation, or corporation,yeah Right.
And the point of thosedocuments is not necessarily
that.
So you and I can agree.
(08:49):
It's more that when, if youpass, or I pass away, exactly
what happens I know what's thatexit, because you don't want to
be stuck with a family memberthat has no idea nor care.
Mark Zweig (08:59):
I'm telling you that's exactly the scenario that
this friend of mine's involvedwith now, when the spouse the
spouse is the one and the spouseknows nothing about the
business.
Yeah right, the spouse nevercontributed anything to the
business.
The whole arrangement was basedon each having their own role
in making certain contributions.
(09:21):
Yeah, and now it's purelyfinancial?
Yeah, Okay, but nothing'sdocumented.
I mean, it's just a badsituation.
So what?
And that brings me up toanother point about partners.
If it's purely financial, I'mgoing to be scared.
There's got to be more to itthan that.
Somebody brings other than justthe money Gotcha To your
(09:45):
business.
They got to be able to help insome way Management expertise,
worldliness, experience.
So that kind of reminds me ofsome of our relationships.
Eric Howerton (09:54):
Yeah, it reminds me of some of the discussions
that we've had about if you'rean entrepreneur and you're just
going out looking for investorpartners Exactly and you're just
looking for somebody to throwmoney in it because you got this
plan but if these people areremoved from the business and
there's being counted againstwhat you're doing, there are
people out there like that whohave money and who do invest in
these businesses.
Mark Zweig (10:15):
But if it's purely financially driven, there's no
real relationship between thepeople and they don't have
anything else to offer thebusiness.
They're likely to want to dosomething different than you are
with it, and that's not a goodpartner.
You got to have that.
You said at the vision.
It's got to be the same.
The mission's got to be thesame, like.
(10:38):
This is why we're in business.
This is where we're trying togo with this business and if
it's purely financial, there'sonly one thing they want out of
it and that's money, and theyprobably want it as fast as they
can get it, absolutely.
Eric Howerton (10:51):
And then they're gonna know what detail reporting
about where all the money'sgoing, because they want more of
that money.
Yeah, exactly.
Mark Zweig (10:57):
Versus all they got, yeah, they'll.
Eric Howerton (10:59):
Versus like, hey, man, a better partnership would
be like I get it, we got some.
Okay, we got some cash in thebusiness, but we need to
reinvest into the company.
Mark Zweig (11:09):
Yeah, we've got some problems that we need to deal
with.
We got some opportunities.
We need to capitalize on them.
Eric Howerton (11:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we need some people.
We need qualified, goodcandidates.
Mark Zweig (11:17):
And it ain't gonna be overnight.
We got to be thinking longerterm than just like next month
here, because that's not wherethe opportunity is.
Eric Howerton (11:25):
That's a good discussion because that's really
the nail on the head, like ofwhat we've talked about about
this capital raising phenomenonthat's going on, that you're
like you can't approach it thatway because I mean, heck, an
investor like.
A big value I'd see from aninvestor, like as a partner,
would be connections that theyhave Exactly, yeah, like connect
me with the freaking people.
(11:45):
That's gonna take me five yearsto get connected to my own
methods, but if you can connectme in a week and I can develop
that out in three months, man,that is substantial.
Mark Zweig (11:56):
I was out of town recently for a couple nights and
, of course, I just had SharkTank on continuously at night.
That's good for the rain tohelp you sleep.
I mean, yeah, it's better thanmy watching the news all night,
like my wife does, which puts mein a horrible mood.
But anyway, I was just watchingepisode after episode of Shark
Tank for two nights in a row.
Yeah, and the people who arethere making a pitch you don't
(12:21):
understand what the right Sharkcould do for them, true, and
then they pass on theiropportunity to associate with
those people.
It's really something else.
I mean, they're soshort-sighted, you know.
Like if you got a productyou're gonna sell online and you
got somebody via television,and you got somebody there who's
(12:43):
been doing that for like 30years and became a freaking
multi-zillionaire off of it, I'dsay, shit, this is a great
opportunity.
Eric Howerton (12:52):
Oh, dude, yeah, you know I've watched that so
many times.
When I'm like see these Goahead.
Mark Zweig (12:57):
I'm sorry, yeah, I'm just gonna say they want 35% of
your company for the price thatsomebody else is willing to
give you or that somebody elseis willing to do it for 20%, and
then take the 20% person whohas no idea of how to really
help that business, protectingtheir equity.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah.
Eric Howerton (13:20):
Because they go in there with a little bit
overconfidence and idea.
You know and you get advicefrom folks like you got a
protector.
What you do have in protectorequity right it's very expensive
capital, the most expensivecash.
Mark Zweig (13:32):
Especially if you're not on a long term plan.
There's no short term.
You're sacrificing along theway I mean it lasts than you
should bearing all that stress.
Whatever, you want to have apayoff at the end.
Eric Howerton (13:44):
Yeah, but if I'm walking into Shark Tank and I
got a clothing line and Damienis like I'll be happy to get in
but I'm gonna take a little bithigher equity position, right,
if you're Damien, but I canconnect you and you see these
entrepreneurs like no, I'm outman.
Yeah, I know it's worth morethan that.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
No, bro, it's not.
Eric Howerton (14:00):
Yeah, take it, bro.
I mean great quote that I hearda long time ago is you don't
get wealthy off one transaction.
Exactly, it's multipletransactions, so just being
connected into that group.
Mark Zweig (14:12):
Yeah, maybe they can make your business 10 times
larger than it is.
So your stake, even if you had20% instead of 35, is worth far
more.
Yeah, because it's 10 timeslarger.
There's that.
Eric Howerton (14:26):
And then there's also the fact that, like, if you
have a real mindset to it, it'slike you got a lifelong
entrepreneurial career.
Mark Zweig (14:33):
Right.
Eric Howerton (14:34):
Of which you can actually be involved in 10, 20
businesses throughout your life.
And if you're really anentrepreneur, you're enjoying
that ride Like you love the ride, man.
Exactly, you like seeing going.
I like seeing things going fromnothing to something and you do
the same thing, like how youpaint canvases, man, with
businesses and all the stuffthat you've done, and it's like
(14:55):
years over years of justdeveloping.
The next thing you know youturn around and like you have,
you're sitting in a land ofopportunities, yeah.
Mark Zweig (15:01):
You got something that's worth, something that has
all kinds of possibilities forthe future Exactly.
Eric Howerton (15:06):
And then you got people that know about you,
bring you involved inopportunities all the way, and
you know that, the mindset thatyou can do greater things with a
group of people than you canall by yourself.
Mark Zweig (15:16):
Yeah, wouldn't you like to be in business with Mark
Cuban?
I mean, the guy's smart, I'mall good, yeah, he just that
just turns to gold.
Eric Howerton (15:23):
Exactly Like give me 30 minutes with him each
week and just hanging out, Imean like I'll fly down there
with my own dime Exactly I mean,yeah, oh, I get 1%, great.
Mark Zweig (15:33):
Yeah, the right, the right partner is so critical.
I, you know my primary businesspartner.
It's why white was Fred White,yeah, and he was.
You know I'm not and Fred and Iare.
We still talk occasionally wedon't talk all that often, but
we do talk occasionally and Fredwas a difficult person to work
(15:55):
with at times.
There's no denying it.
However, we never would havebeen as successful without the
guy.
True, he was a genius and hisskillset was almost like the
exact opposite of mine, yeah, sotogether we made a really good
team.
He was the guy that figured outthe longterm stuff how to
(16:16):
create the systems that made usmore efficient, how to create
the databases.
You know how to make booksfaster and better than anybody
else, how to market all ourstuff consistently.
So we got a consistent result.
That's super valuable, yeah.
Eric Howerton (16:38):
And so he was more inside.
Yes, so I think that, likethere is a common simple to
simplify this Inside versus out,then even we didn't even plan
that, but that's so true it is.
And you were the outside guy.
Yes, talk and smack, drink andcoffee yapping, drinking,
campaigning.
Mark Zweig (16:58):
Makes me sound so insubstantive Wow, I mean I mean
, hey, you know what.
Eric Howerton (17:05):
I'm sorry for you , but that's been my real tooth.
Mark Zweig (17:07):
I know it is, I know it is and I love it, you know,
yeah, somebody's got to do that.
Eric Howerton (17:13):
Somebody's got to do it.
I think I tell people at thetime I'm like I'm a professional
coffee drinker, it's all I am.
Man, like you know, I know howto go out there and I'm not
afraid to make strength.
Mark Zweig (17:21):
I'm the promoter and the connector and all that.
And I was picking on LinkedInrecently.
I know you don't spend a lot oftime on LinkedIn and you're
smart for not, but these peoplewho put in their profile
visionary I mean I'm a visionary, jesus, maybe somebody could
(17:44):
call you that.
But to claim that is ridiculous.
However, that set.
And then I was corrected bysomebody that said well now, if
you're an EOS company, that is aformal job title to be an a
visionary.
I'm like, okay, cut thebullshit with the EOS too.
Okay, and not to say EOS is bad, it's not, but it's not a
(18:08):
panacea for everything.
And I said and not everybodyknows you're an EOS.
So when they seeself-proclaimed visionary, they
think this guy's oh, dude soul.
I mean, I ain't to say it, butDude, I would, I would be,
ashamed to put visionary on myLinkedIn it is.
(18:28):
but all that aside, somebody'sgotta be the visionary.
Eric Howerton (18:34):
No, it's very true.
You know, and honestly, if youare a visionary, I wouldn't
really wanna claim it becausemost of the times people think
you're crazy.
Right, if you're bringing outvision to stuff.
Like it's not a fun.
It's not a fun spot to be in.
No, it's not.
It's superbly frustrating ashell.
Mark Zweig (18:49):
I have been Because everybody else doesn't see it.
I can't think, I know.
Eric Howerton (18:54):
I've been with my life in a frustrating bubble,
Like my wife can't see it, mypartners can't see it, my staff
definitely can't see it, no onecan see it and I drive Right
Absolutely insane.
And then you have to go to mylittle spaces and understand
that it's okay and that I'm youknow I'm right.
Mark Zweig (19:12):
And you gotta chip away at trying to convince them
and sell them.
Yes On your vision.
Eric Howerton (19:16):
And then they make decisions and you're like
what the hell are you doing?
That is not a lie.
That's not gonna work out.
Well, the numbers work, but thevision is terrible.
Mark Zweig (19:25):
But in a partnership somebody's gotta have that role
.
But yeah, the inside versusoutside, yeah, I think the
visionary versus the doer, yep,you know not to say that the
visionary never does Right.
The doer never has any kind ofinspiration or sense of a
(19:45):
greater possibility.
Because they have to.
Eric Howerton (19:49):
And you both have to be good with that.
Yeah, and respect that.
Like, what I've been blessedwith with my partners is that
they greatly respected what Idid, even though it's very soft,
like you can't put your handson, like I'm not cranking out
freaking spreadsheets, right, Iunderstand.
You know what I'm saying, yeah,but they appreciated and were
grateful and allowed me to justbe me, Right, you know.
(20:12):
But I was also on the flip side.
You were allowing them to betotally yeah and I let them like
, I mean, if we brought both mypartners in, that I've had they
would.
You know, I'm actually had JSin here and I mean like, but I
mean the ability for me to getthe hell out of that way, out of
their way, you know, wasprobably the greatest, allowed
(20:33):
them to be who they are, Right.
Mark Zweig (20:35):
I agree with you 100%.
I call that abdication.
Okay, you know you're justabdicate to them.
You just this is your domain,go for it.
You know it's not delegation atall, it's abdication.
Eric Howerton (20:50):
And then there's been many times, too, where I've
been like I probably didn'treally agree yeah, didn't, it
was the the what are the cut thejuice wasn't worth the squeeze,
right a pigment battles.
Mark Zweig (21:01):
Yeah, you want to win the war, not the battle.
Eric Howerton (21:04):
Yeah, man, sometimes like it may not be the
best thing, might not be thebest thing for a lot of reasons,
but right you know, allow it tohappen and then support them
and back them up right with theteam, like I never.
I never countered my partner,not one single time you can't.
Mark Zweig (21:20):
It's just like parenting.
It's the same thing.
If you go against your partner,they're gonna be friggin
furious with you and be.
Your kids are gonna be confusedas hell, confused, okay, so you
can't, yeah, you can't do it,and if you do it right you can
actually use that a lot like man.
Eric Howerton (21:37):
I'll be like man.
I mean Alex.
Alex said no, I'm sorry, Idon't.
Mark Zweig (21:40):
yeah, you claim against each other.
Yeah, right now you use them asthe bad guy.
That's the other thing.
Do you ever notice that theoutside guy is usually not the
bad guy?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
I like that.
Mark Zweig (21:54):
The outside guy is the nice guy.
Yeah, man, everybody loves theoutside guy.
Eric Howerton (21:59):
The inside guy that coddies up, sob, dude up,
you know, or she is all thehorrible you know, and folks
will come to you trying toconvince you, cuz you're the
good guy, you're probably gonnasay, yes, right, but I always be
like man.
I don't know, I I wouldprobably take another look at
that for you.
Go talk to J S, man Like man,I'll talk with them as well, but
you know, I don't think it'sgonna work and then I'll let J S
(22:22):
just be the bad guy.
I think I was gonna be the badguy.
Mark Zweig (22:25):
Exactly, I hear you.
I think that that you know.
So another characteristic ofgood partners is they have to be
Putting in the same amount ofeffort that you are in intensity
.
Yes, you know, and if they'renot doing that, then there's
gonna be a problem.
Totally that course.
That's the problem that peoplelike you and I have, because we
(22:47):
get involved in so many thingsthat then we're not giving the
full attention to the one thingthat the partner may be involved
in, and then that can make themResent you.
Yeah, but you got to be carefulup, you got to make sure you're
still earning your Hell.
Eric Howerton (23:03):
Yeah, you know that's when you just say, hey,
like it's not worth it to sleep,mm-hmm, it's a.
And then you.
Then you get twisted up withyour spouse partner at the crib.
Yeah, I mean, then you got tomake good on that like it's just
a whirlwind man, it's a greatlife.
Mark Zweig (23:19):
It is so much fun it is, and the real light, yeah.
The relationships, all that,yeah.
I will say this, though, and Ithink you would agree it gets
easier the older you get.
Yeah, when you're young, it'slike Things upset you more than
maybe they should.
I don't know what that is.
It's like.
With age comes a certain amountof perspective that allows you
(23:45):
to carry on in spite ofDisagreements or problems or,
yeah, add, feelings you knowthat might have really derailed
you when you're younger.
Eric Howerton (23:56):
I think that's probably I would call that just
emotional intelligence.
Like you go, if you grow up andyou start recognizing, like you
know, you have experiences isand Experiences in your, and
you're like that.
You know why was I so bent outof shape about that?
Cuz it didn't make anydifference.
And then the next time you havecertain things like that
happened, like you, you juststay calmer, like you just.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, it doesn't.
Eric Howerton (24:18):
It doesn't blow your lid.
It's not the end of thefreaking world anymore.
Yep and I think that goes intois like I think I'm a better
partner today, that I was wayback.
Oh, I definitely think so.
Mark Zweig (24:28):
I agree.
I mean, I remember fighting.
You are a lot better partnernow than you were.
Eric Howerton (24:32):
Oh, big time.
No, well, we could call Alexnow, like he saw me grow up
quite a bit, you know, in thoseearly days.
I say for him too, though Imean like it took five Took some
time.
Mark Zweig (24:45):
Yeah, we're, I mean, we're still learning.
Okay, oh, we're, that's thegreat thing.
I was saying this to somebodythe other day.
It's like they're like I don'twant to change, I'm gonna be
just the way I am.
I'm like You're in your 20s.
I'm not the same person I wasfive years ago than I am now.
Oh, at all, hopefully.
(25:06):
Yeah, I'm.
No, I'm not.
I hope I've learned somethingover that time.
Oh, you have, bro, I've watchedyou now, so much Back at you.
Eric Howerton (25:15):
that comment yeah , like you've grown up.
Mark Zweig (25:17):
No, it's true, though you do, hopefully you're
still learning, which is anothergood characteristic of a
partner is somebody who can sayI'm still learning, I'm not done
, I'm not set, I'm not rigid,I've, I have the capacity to
change.
Yeah, you know, yeah, I learnednew stuff, absolutely so.
Eric Howerton (25:39):
And you know, I think that too is like there's
also a level of caring andgenuine concern about your
partner's well-being, likethere's been many times that
I've been able to spot in mypartner that man, you're not
Like, you're not, you're not ahundred percent, not a hundred
percent.
Man, things are going on withyou Right, like, and you have to
be somebody that they can leanon.
I mean, dude, it's.
It's like friendship, marriage,business, everything wrapped up
(26:03):
into it.
And I think that that's why alot of people you know might
have a pretty significant horrorstory, you know, about
partnership.
It's they.
They could very well have pickedthe right partner, but because
they weren't being a goodpartner, yeah you know,
undermined it and sure, and itbecomes more problematic for you
, like you literally have to beable to let things go.
(26:23):
You have to be able to trustthe person, you know, you have
to be able to communicate, youknow, and you can't duck and
hide, you know.
I mean, it's just, there's justso much to it and I'm a big
believer in partnerships.
I mean, I tolerate theidiosyncrasies, totally.
Mark Zweig (26:39):
I mean, I, I, fred, and, and I love him.
But we used to sit in meetingsand we were young yeah, okay, we
, you know, it was just me andFred and maybe some other people
but he always put his leg upagainst the table and then would
move the table like this thewhole time.
It would just absolutely, I gotthe word.
(27:00):
I can't even pay any attentionto what he's saying or thinking
or anything.
The moving of the table isdriving me insane today.
I can totally tolerate that,can you?
Yeah, it's all good now right.
But those idiosyncrasies that weall have, yeah, you have to be
able to go past them.
Eric Howerton (27:21):
You know that is so true.
And I mean, you know I'veraised my hand saying I probably
got a lot that would pisssomebody off.
You know you never pissed meoff.
Well, I know, because you and Ihurt we're on the outside I
mean there's not much that Ithink that you and I could do.
I'd be like, oh dude, that washilarious, that's great.
Mark Zweig (27:42):
Yeah, we're too much alike.
That's the problem.
Eric Howerton (27:45):
We are for sure.
But you know, I mean, like youknow, I've always been a big
believer in escaping.
When you need to escape inbusiness, like sometimes you got
to take 30 minutes, take acouple hours to get back in it.
You know, and yes, and you know, my brain is regroup,
retreating Totally.
My partners were different manthey're, they're able to focus
and stay, you know, stay in lineand keep that, just that
(28:07):
consistency.
I'm the most inconsistentperson that I think that I've
ever met, maybe other than you.
You're pretty inconsistent toyou, like you're freaking.
Mark Zweig (28:15):
I never, I never.
Consistency wasn't my goal.
Okay, I mean obviously that'swhat I'm saying.
Like you're the mostinconsistent person I think I've
ever met, I'm consistent insome ways though, like I always
pay my bills on time and Ialways do certain things that
you know I.
I comply with laws andregulations and forms and bills
(28:37):
and deadlines you do.
You think, things I comply with.
That taught me that, butconsistency in all other ways,
no, it's never been a goal.
Eric Howerton (28:46):
Yeah, I remember back in the day like when we
were paying bills of our AP waspretty high.
Yeah, we got back in the daythat was a yeah, but you were
relentless on.
As soon as we got some paymentin, it's like, okay, who are you
gonna pay off today?
Get it done, relentless likeyou.
There was nothing else that youwere focused on that day other
than how many wires were sittingand you, the other room
(29:11):
slamming your head look tablescreen.
We did.
We sit that out, yet we gottaget that out.
I mean it's just like.
And then in the next thing youknow, they were back at.
We're screaming where we werethe morning broke again and I've
been my brain.
I was like, don't you want tokeep this for a few days?
and we have no, you didn't, man.
I mean that.
That was a good lesson.
Mark Zweig (29:31):
Well, no only because you know people.
If you're doing business withpeople, they want to do bit.
Yeah they like you and will dofavors for you.
If you're a fast payer, yes.
If you're a slow payer, thenyou're gonna get De-prioritized.
They'll work, they'll do stufffor you if they got nothing
better to do.
I don't want to be that kind ofa client or, you know, a buyer
(29:56):
of whatever they're selling.
Eric Howerton (29:57):
I just don't.
I think another term inrelation to everything we're
talking about is that there is100% such thing as business
karma man.
Yes, there is, bro, like I have.
Mark Zweig (30:08):
You know, put out good and good.
Yeah, you put out bad and bad.
Bad stuff happens.
Eric Howerton (30:14):
That's an episode on its own man and like what
are all the details and what isgood and bad karma?
Because I mean like it will?
I have seen it happen myselfand I've seen.
You know from a couple ofthings that I did.
I actually told you that Itexted you like the way I left
is like why I'm not very proudof you.
Mark Zweig (30:31):
I know, I know I never know didn't get it.
I know you didn't man.
Eric Howerton (30:34):
It was awesome.
Yeah, I didn't feel good aboutit, yeah, and I felt like that.
That that returned to me in Ina in a way that that was not the
most pleasant thing, you know,and and so.
But that's the lesson learned,and you know that's not that big
of a deal, because I don't doanything really bad, just, yeah,
you just move it on, but I wasa kid man, yeah.
Mark Zweig (30:53):
I was just a kid, it's okay.
Okay, I Never had any illfeelings towards you, ever at
all.
Well, I appreciate that youwere always a good person to
work with and you always triedto do you could do to make
things successful and, yeah,keep everybody happy.
Eric Howerton (31:08):
Well, I appreciate that man, but I
didn't feel good about but youknow.
But then I've seen other peoplein throughout the business that
did not do good things and it'sdetrimental.
I'm not even like it when itwas going on the things that
weren't doing good and I waslike it, obviously didn't feel
(31:28):
good when it happened to me, butI certainly didn't even like to
know that down the road it'sgoing to multiply on them.
I'd like karma thing, like manthat is.
I hate that for them.
Mark Zweig (31:38):
We only have one reputation, so that's obviously
super, super critical.
You've got to protect that witheverything you got.
But back on partners okay, whenI do see unethical behavior of
a partner, that's a problem.
And or super selfish behavior,all right, the selfishness is
(32:02):
bad.
It's really hard to once I makethat determination that I think
somebody's being selfish orunethical.
I'm going to be pretty harsh inmy judgment of them and it's
going to be really difficult forus to be partners.
What would you do in asituation like going forward.
Eric Howerton (32:20):
I mean like how would you hate, I mean, how
would you?
Mark Zweig (32:22):
You know, the first time we had Swig or Swig White,
we had like 23 or 24 partners.
Now, fred and I combined, Ithink we still had like 75 to
78% of the company.
So, put on that order, okay.
At the time we sold it.
However, you know, we had allthese other partners in there
(32:45):
and the way.
Honestly, a few times I justhad to let people go, partners
or not, we're going to part ways, gotcha, it's not working out,
so we're just going to just bombout and yes, okay, and we had
very well-documented buybackprovisions and time, you know,
to pay back their ownership andvaluation methodology.
(33:07):
Baked it in the ownershipagreements.
Eric Howerton (33:10):
Where do you see?
Where do you?
Mark Zweig (33:12):
see S Corp.
S Corp.
Yeah, never had any question orproblem with any of that, never
got challenged.
Everybody signed the agreements.
Everybody lived and died by thesame agreement.
Eric Howerton (33:23):
Got it and that's what's important about
corporate structures.
Yes, that's why you have to getyour.
I mean, like you can't go tolegal zoom and just download and
then sign documents, man, itwill freaking, it will hurt.
Mark Zweig (33:37):
It's going to hurt.
I mean, I just seen case aftercase of it Case.
I mean, even people I work withat the U of A, who teach
entrepreneurship, who actuallyare entrepreneurs, have made
some of the classic mistakes inthat regard Of undocumented
relationships or poorlydocumented relationships with
(33:59):
business partners.
Yeah, and then they end up inthe newspaper, yeah, with
lawsuits.
Eric Howerton (34:06):
Yeah, and that's not good.
That goes back to thereputation thing, whether it's
true, valid or not.
Mark Zweig (34:10):
Exactly, it's toxic.
It casts a shadow over you.
Yeah, that's going to be reallyhard to escape.
Well, make sure that peopledoubt, right?
Yeah, and people talk about itforever.
I mean, we live in an area it'sgot like 600,000 people now and
people around here are stilltalking about stuff that people
did wrong 20 years ago.
(34:31):
Have you noticed that?
True, very true, it's true.
Eric Howerton (34:34):
Yeah, it's a big deal it is.
It's so like when you'regetting in, if you are going to
get in a partnership, you bothhave to be on the same page in
the beginning, like how thoselegalities are set up, and you
have to believe in that document, right, that corporate set up,
yes, and all the things youmentioned, yes, and you have to
be aligned and that's yourguiding principle.
It is, it's got to be there.
(34:55):
And another thing that you saidat earlier values.
So I did a values exercise along time ago that it was after
I was in partnership and, man,it was ruthless, trying to
identify those with my partner,you know, because they aren't
the same person I am.
I believed in it.
Sure, they were kind of goingalong that that was such a big
(35:20):
deal to establish values, thecharacteristics and the beliefs
that I have, along with mypartner allotting to that to set
the values of the company.
Mark Zweig (35:31):
It's super important .
I think most of the exercisesI've seen to define values in
companies are absolute crap, butit's super important.
I mean, don't you agree though?
Yeah, I mean the values.
They've got these sort of emptystatements of platitudes that
they don't actually live by, andthen that's just what they want
(35:53):
to be, not play on Aspirationalvalues.
I mean, values are values.
They're not aspirational in mymind.
Yeah, true Goals can beaspirational, or a vision can be
aspirational, but values yougotta live those you do you know
you do.
Eric Howerton (36:09):
It has to be within your being and it's
basically an exercise of tryingto get out between you and your
partner but you deeply alreadybelieve in and who you identify
as you are right and then youbring those together and that
actually defines the companyRight, you know, if you're those
two part it should, yeah, itshould, and then that's the
(36:30):
expectation.
And what I loved about thatexercise is it helped us
identify who we actually hire.
Mark Zweig (36:37):
Yes.
Eric Howerton (36:38):
That is super critical.
Super critical because if thefolks you're hiring, or even
vendors or customers you dealwith Right and when you don't
want to lie to that, it's goingto be devastating.
It is, it absolutely is.
That's what wreaks havoc allover the place.
Mark Zweig (36:52):
Yeah, most companies , though.
I mean, they don't act likethat's really within their
control to hire people that havethe right values.
They don't act like they canshed any clients who don't
really have the right values.
They, you know, isn't that true, though?
It's like, well, you know it'shard to hire people, so we're
gonna hire, you know so and soover there, yeah, it's kind of
(37:15):
doesn't really have half of whatwe want in a person.
Yeah, you know.
Eric Howerton (37:22):
JS taught me that so well.
I like just watching him abouthow he brought people in the
company.
He was just he's genius man.
He was just so diligent aboutit and was patient, thoughtful,
studied.
Mark Zweig (37:33):
It's an essential skill if you want to build a
business beyond some smallbusiness that goes nowhere.
Eric Howerton (37:40):
So true, being able to identify those people
that are the ones that have whatyou need in the right
orientation, and then get themon your team Yep, and the
reality is that you know, andthe partnership thing is not
only was you know we strong andweak in other areas and able to
do that with the values, butthen it's just a matter of time
(38:01):
to dedicate to those things.
Mark Zweig (38:03):
Yes.
Eric Howerton (38:03):
You know JS would spend so much time Like he even
to you know the end at WhiteSpider.
He would interview everybodythat was coming to that company.
Mark Zweig (38:13):
Yeah, I think that's smart Dude, so smart.
If you're running a business,why wouldn't you care about
everybody on the team?
Yeah, I mean, if you were afootball coach, would you let
somebody else recruit a playerand sign them.
That's a good point.
Without meeting them, yeah,what the.
That'd be pretty stupid, andmaking some kind of
determination yourself aboutwhether they were gonna be right
(38:35):
or not.
Eric Howerton (38:35):
That's right, that's crazy.
Yeah, I mean it's.
You know, it's a.
Mark Zweig (38:40):
We're building a winning team here, man.
That's it, man.
Eric Howerton (38:43):
Champions, yes, champions, yes.
Look man, I just wanna bearound like five to 10 people
that are freaking champions.
I agree, bro, like I feel likeI can do anything under the sun
with a small amount of freakingClass A champions.
Mark Zweig (38:59):
It's true, and it's not like we don't encounter bad
things or setbacks, right, Imean, I gotta say it's like
there's tons of setbacks,there's tons of negative
information out there and damnnear everything I get involved
with.
Ooh.
But we've got the vision.
I know you've got the valuesystem and that you're working
(39:21):
hard over here, just like me.
Okay, that's it.
We will overcome whatever theobstacles are.
We will overcome Hell.
Yeah, all right, it's notdelusional if we're gonna do
what we need to do.
It is delusional if we just saywe're gonna overcome.
By the way, we're not gonna doanything we need to do to fix
the situation or get past thisobstacle.
Eric Howerton (39:44):
Yeah, I mean, my thing is on a resume and even in
an interview.
How do you measure the get ashit that somebody has?
Mark Zweig (39:51):
Yeah, I know.
Well, it's hard.
It is hard.
You can ask them for stories.
That's what you look for.
Eric Howerton (39:58):
Yeah, you can sense that when somebody is
self-determined and wants to bepart of a team that are all
rising up Doing stuff man.
Mark Zweig (40:08):
Well, yeah, and have standards of excellence.
We used to always go look atthe cars in the parking lot to
see what they look like.
If they were driving like areally trashy car filled up with
junk in the interior, yeah, nah, it didn't have to be anything
fantastic, but are theymaintaining what they've got?
There you go.
Eric Howerton (40:28):
Taking care.
Yeah, are they happy Are?
Mark Zweig (40:30):
they proud of what they have.
It's there a standard that theyhave to keep in every way?
Eric Howerton (40:36):
Yeah, Remember, you looked at my car.
Actually I can't remember.
Mark Zweig (40:40):
You had like a Lexus , yeah, an old Lexus.
Eric Howerton (40:44):
Yeah, I remember.
Yeah, it was like a.
I bought it for my dad, I think, and he drove it for like 30
years.
Oh, it wasn't that old, forGod's sakes, but I remember you
judging me about it.
Mark Zweig (40:56):
No, I judged me, I didn't judge you from that.
Your car was fine.
I do remember, though, thatremember Katen, who worked for
us, and we harassed himendlessly when he bought a
Toyota.
What is that?
The luxury, big Toyota that hebought?
Not a Camry, but the next levelof Cressida.
(41:19):
No, it wasn't a Cressida, itwas gosh.
Whatever, it was just a bigsedan.
Yeah, it was a big sedan, andwe looked at the average age of
the buyer.
It was like 72 years old orsomething.
We had a little too much fun.
Eric Howerton (41:34):
That guy man busted him man, I just talked to
him the other day.
Mark Zweig (41:38):
He lives in India, he's got his MBA and he works
for a private equity firm hestarted getting good.
Eric Howerton (41:44):
He started talking towards the end.
He was returning to smack talkman.
And I remember there was acouple of them and they were
like he shut me up, that's histerrible.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
You know he's getting so good at it.
Eric Howerton (41:55):
So partnerships would you advise as a beginning,
new or even a returningentrepreneur?
Partnerships, are they good orare they bad?
Mark Zweig (42:08):
I think they're good if you get the right person.
What do you think?
Eric Howerton (42:12):
I would say yes to that, and then if you
understand how to be a goodpartner Like you can't.
Mark Zweig (42:20):
No, you're right, you have to be, because you
can't operate with impunity.
You can't be selfish.
You got to know that you'repart of the team.
You got to carry your weight.
It's definitely a reciprocaldeal, for sure.
Eric Howerton (42:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think that there's also
just like I didn't.
I know what I had mypartnership for.
There was no like deep analysisabout it, but there was a good
sense and, to your point, I knewthat they were really good at
something that I was, that Iwasn't really good at, and also
I had no interest to be good at.
(42:54):
Yeah, Like I think that's wherea lot of the magic happened for
me is like I did not.
Not only was I not good at that, but I'd not have zero desire
to compete with you in thegoodness of whatever you're good
at.
Yes, and let you roll with that.
Yes, you know, and then respectthat and appreciate it, being
grateful and thankful and yeah,exactly.
Mark Zweig (43:16):
Well, you've always been so nice, you know how to
treat people.
Yeah, yeah, somebody taught youToyota Avalon.
That's what he had, and mymother-in-law had one too.
Eric Howerton (43:27):
That's an Avalon.
Mark Zweig (43:28):
I'm telling you, and especially if you get it in
that like champagne color ohyeah, that's what his was right,
yeah it screams old man.
Okay, this guy was like 22, 23.
Eric Howerton (43:40):
What are you doing?
Mark Zweig (43:41):
We're giving.
Yeah, it's like Like you don'teven go to car lots by yourself
anymore.
Do you want to get any dates?
I mean what?
Do you have your AARP card?
Eric Howerton (43:54):
Right, he's just trying to get discounts, man,
that's what he was trying to do.
Mark Zweig (43:57):
I get him now In Zanya and I went to see.
Do you?
Yes, we get all the seniordiscounts.
I was left to see that Ferrarimovie Christmas Day Eve was
awesome.
Have you seen it yet?
No, no, enzo Ferrari man, hewas a gutsy guy.
I'll tell you.
Eric Howerton (44:14):
I love it.
It's a good business.
So you got a discount to go see.
Yeah, we get the senior.
Mark Zweig (44:17):
Fantastic, mark, congratulations.
It's like 10 something versuslike 14 or whatever.
Eric Howerton (44:23):
You know, Well done bro.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yeah.
Eric Howerton (44:25):
Do you get that when you go to your fast food
joints too, because you'realways you know I hadn't thought
about that.
Mark Zweig (44:30):
I should ask, bro, you have seen like Burger King?
Eric Howerton (44:33):
Yes, I get discounts too, man.
I think they started the seniordiscount thing, bro.
You need to take advantage ofthat I do.
What did you eat today?
Mark Zweig (44:42):
Olive and I, my 17-year-old, we went to Arsigas
toast oh wow.
Eric Howerton (44:47):
OK, well, that's because you had Olive with you.
Mark Zweig (44:49):
That you did that Exactly.
It was her request, otherwiseI'd have had like a nice sausage
, biscuit and hash browns.
Eric Howerton (44:56):
Do you go to hard McDonald's?
Do you ever go hard?
We don't have any.
Do we have a hearties and fail?
Mark Zweig (45:01):
hardies is gone and oh man, that's terrible went out
of business.
Eric Howerton (45:04):
Nobody went there , yeah yeah, it was kind of say
they didn't revive, nowrevitalize themselves.
They, my grandparents, but theycamped out at hardies back.
Did they like hardies?
They loved hardies, the hashbrowns, like it was what they
did.
Mark Zweig (45:17):
Did they go to stock car races?
Hardies was always a bigsponsor of that.
I don't know that one thing.
Yeah, your dad was a professor.
Eric Howerton (45:24):
Yeah, so is he still?
Yeah, no, no, he's been retiredfor about 10 years now.
Okay, he's the Psychologist.
He was the chair of thepsychology department.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Yeah, he's a thinker.
Eric Howerton (45:35):
Yeah, he's still things.
That's awesome.
I thought of myself as I getolder just sitting there
thinking like what am I thinkingabout?
Mark Zweig (45:42):
But I just went to, so I went somewhere.
You know that famous quote fromMark Twain.
It was like when he was 18 hecouldn't believe how dumb his
dad was, and when he was 20,it's something to this effect
yeah, but when he was 25 hecouldn't believe how much his
father had learned over the nextlast seven years.
That's a good point.
(46:04):
A little appreciation forovertime, right, big time man.
Well, listen, eric, I think ourconversation is done for today.
Time is crap.
That's great.
We.
We encourage our listeners towrite us with whatever questions
you'd like for us to deal withyou, and it's something that
(46:28):
we're gonna start reading someof those and talking about them.
The new year, they shout.
The new year coming up in inthe new year.
We're, as we record this, theyear is almost over, mm-hmm, and
thank God, christmas is over.
Bahum bug is what I'd like tosay to that.
Ah.
Eric Howerton (46:47):
Humbug?
Why do you say bottom of theChristmas?
Mark Zweig (46:49):
if you looked at my MX bill for the month, you would
know why I'm saying bahum bug.
Okay, it's staggering.
It's your great with theeconomy, man, it's stressful
this time of year, yeah you knowyeah it really is.
I mean just trying to geteverything done and make
everybody happy and go all theplaces that you're supposed to
(47:10):
go, and you Know what I do lovethe whole.
Eric Howerton (47:12):
You know what I love the holidays most about?
Yeah, okay, yeah, you see whatI mean.
Yeah, you did some stuff there,didn't buddy?
He went out.
Mark Zweig (47:21):
Didn't do anything.
It's an boss yeah for people.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Yeah.
Eric Howerton (47:27):
What I've always loved about holidays is that
people ghost out, and it givesme that one to two weeks time,
relentless focus, to plan theattack of the shit.
I hear you I'm doing, I canbring the shank out.
Yeah, january 2nd at 7 am.
(47:47):
Baby, I love it, I do too.
And then everybody's like, oh,whoa, yeah, you're back.
Here we go.
Yeah, this is how we roll.
Mark Zweig (47:55):
That's it, the the new year.
It starts a hole.
We got a whole new blank sheetahead of us.
Eric Howerton (48:00):
It's what's possible, but I got it all
figured out the last two weeks.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Yeah, that's good.
It's been a good thing.
All right, man.
Mark Zweig (48:07):
All right.
Well, hey, everybody the other.
I guess the other thing I wantto say is make sure you log into
our website.
We don't have to log in.
Well, our we're gonna have awebsite and and and sign up for
our email list www.
Big talk about small business,calm, and If you're interested
in becoming a sponsor of ourprogram, we have somebody here
(48:31):
who would love to talk with you.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Yeah.
Mark Zweig (48:35):
And yeah, who can, who can help you out with that?
Yeah, again, I mean, we're notgonna take just anybody as
sponsors, that's right.
We better believe in whatthey're doing you better line to
our values.
Eric Howerton (48:46):
That's right.
Damn it, yep.
But if you are a Sausage, eggand biscuit company, we'd love
to Especially.
Mark Zweig (48:56):
You can supply some of those to us here in the
studio.
Eric Howerton (48:58):
Yeah, if you're McDonald's and you want to
sponsor with just unlimitedsupply of Fast food for Mark's
why you can, you can get it bigMac.
Mark Zweig (49:10):
She like big Mac, I love big.
My daughter Olive, who'ssitting in our lobby right now,
she told me she had a dream lastnight.
We're, a big Mac meal cost 75bucks.
Eric Howerton (49:23):
What?
Yeah, oh, she had a dream abouta dream about it.
Yeah, dude, that could be wherewe're at one day.
Mark Zweig (49:28):
I let me tell you every time I drive through
Starbucks with my kids in themorning and pay 20 bucks, I'm
like this is ridiculous.
Eric Howerton (49:36):
You can't get a.
I mean I, my daughter gets likeshe bought like a seven dollar
and fifty cent drink the otherday might get that.
Mark Zweig (49:42):
a tall Frappuccino, which is tall in their
nomenclature, means small, yeahyeah, just another one of my pet
peeves.
Okay, and it's friggin Dollarsfor a like a 12 ounce drink.
Eric Howerton (49:55):
It's insane man but then they want to tip.
Why is it?
Can we have an episode aboutwhy everybody wants a tip?
Mark Zweig (50:03):
Do we want tips, but we don't get them, for God's
sake, that's dude, it drives menuts.
Eric Howerton (50:09):
I'm like man you like, why do I have it?
It's so embarrassing.
Now, you like, you pull outyour debit card, yeah, and
you're just trying to buysomething and it says tip 20%,
25%, I know, or no tip, and Ihave to sit there and push that
no tip button and then they'relike you, so be.
Mark Zweig (50:29):
If I could spit in your food right now, I would,
but it's already out here.
I just feel like it's so rudeman it grew up in the server in
the right, I know you worked atholiday and I recall, yeah, bro,
I've worked for the tip man,right, like I talked for the tip
.
Eric Howerton (50:44):
Now, if somebody's nice to me and
broadens my day, I'll tip them.
Sure, actually, I'll tip them.
Well, right.
But I mean, you got work forthat tip man.
I worked for the tip.
I hadn't expecting you to giveme a tip.
Mark Zweig (50:56):
I bought two smoked turkeys from a local restaurant
for Thanksgiving.
I ordered them and advanced andI go to pick them up and it's
like 150 bucks.
But what's the tip?
Like a tip, I just picked upthese damn turkeys, like you
should, just to give you like 30bucks.
They handle me, you should havepayroll.
Eric Howerton (51:14):
Okay, I'm worked into the props of my turkey man.
Mark Zweig (51:18):
Anyway, well, that's a subject for another day, but,
um, in any case, this has beenanother episode of big talk
about small business, and we'llsee you next time, thank you,
thank you, thanks for tuninginto this episode of big talk
about small business.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming
shows, be sure to head over toour website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the ask the host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at big talk about small
(51:58):
business and be sure to headover to our website To read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
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