February 21, 2024 • 52 mins
Ever wondered how to craft a brand that sticks in the minds of your niche audience? Strap in and join Eric Howerton and Mark Zweig as have their first show in our newly minted podcast video studio, a tech wonderland designed to pump life into your content creation dreams. From the simplicity of solo pods to the robust offerings of branding and analytics, they will reveal the secrets to making your brand unforgettable and your content king.
Toss out the old playbook because when it comes to hiring in the startup world, it's all about agility and a keen eye for talent that bucks tradition. They're dissecting the entrepreneurial hiring process and sharing their non-traditional approach that prizes a dynamic mindset over run-of-the-mill job specs. Plus, Eric and Mark get real about the evolving work culture in startups, where responsiveness and founder engagement can mean the difference between a thriving business and a stagnant one.
Finally, they're zeroing in on the entrepreneurial spirit that can catapult a company's revenue to the stratosphere and the gritty reality behind wealth building. They also touch on the post-COVID phenomenon of 'quiet quitting' and its implications for businesses and personal work ethic. For the hands-on entrepreneurs out there, get a load of our strategies for wrangling the daily challenges of running a hands-on business like construction, with a dose of humor and flexibility. Tune in to get equipped with the insights and chuckles you need for your entrepreneurial voyage.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey everybody, this is Mark Swig and I'm back here
with my buddy, eric Howardton.
What's up One more time in thenew and fabulous, unbelievable
podcast video studio.
It's pretty sick, I have toadmit it is.
It's pretty sick dude.
(00:25):
How many stage sets do we havein here?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We got three large format like this one, this one
we consider large.
The next one is like a V desklike a, like you know, a CNN or
Fox News top show type thing.
And the third one is like alounge chair, kind of like your
Ellen DeGeneres, you know, ingeneral, ellen, ellen, ellen
(00:51):
DeGeneres, oh, degeneres, okay.
And then we got five solo podswhich is basically like a
smaller table like this, whereyou kind of come in and cut your
own social clip, which would befan, like they were getting
into that.
A lot like folks are reallylike even the young ins, or like
they can come in, they just usethe phone, yeah, and they just
(01:11):
use the audio on their phone.
But it gives them a coolenvironment, just a nice audio
controlled environment.
I say you know some of theselittle colors we see in here.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, I can have my daughter come in here and like
sing, yeah, and you could do itin these rooms.
Oh, it's all this.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, I mean it's not going to be like you know
you're super pro, sure, but Imean, no, we can capture
excellent audio, you know, tothese things.
But anyway, like there's a lotof uses for this space, so we
have different sets for yourclients, right?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And you guys do everything from letting them use
the space and record to editingthem down, turnkey.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, and then you can send it back to just a full,
edited down, ready to go, readyto go video.
You can do whatever you want to.
We have what we call ourdiamond package, which we can
it's more of your white loveservices right To where we can
do everything from establishinga brand for your podcasts to
owning the YouTube channel sothat we can or keep that
(02:13):
organized for you yeah,providing social posts and then
data tracking yeah, we doanalytics against that.
Yeah, and we distribute it foryou across all the podcasts
networks Right, and we bring allthose analytics back and kind
of say, hey, man, this is what'sgoing on and we'll even do like
ad sales, I mean, we'll likereceive any.
I mean we could take care ofall the contractual stuff and
(02:35):
then billing with all that.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
That is really a turnkey service.
I don't think anybody else doesthat.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's my knowledge no, I'm sure that there will be,
though like this here's thereality.
I've always said well, at leastmy vision on it is, today we
might have, like you know, ahundred media outlets with
millions of audiences per Right.
It's going to change to wherewe have millions of media
(03:01):
outlets with hundreds ofaudience per so the whole
dynamic shift.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
It's really people consume.
If centralizing, I guess in away, yeah, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Everything will become more niche.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yes, Niche Well podcast videos really is the
first sponsor of big talk aboutsmall business.
Sure the hell is.
You know that it's the de factofor sponsor.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It is.
I'm going to get my commissionthere.
Yeah, I think it's great.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well, I wish you the most success.
I love your branding.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Thanks, yeah, it done a great job.
We got the we kind of.
You know, I guess it's all kindof relatively small business,
but you know, you take, thisisn't our main logo, right, Our
main logo's got color and stuffthat we kind of stripped out and
made this really simple so wecould get on the black.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
You love, black love I do, and black and chrome baby
I do.
Man, you just love it, youalways have Classic man.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I mean, it's simple, timeless and like you can't help
, but just as a human being, tosee that and it means it does.
It gets into your soul, allright.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I like soul marketing .
I love that.
Well, you've always been verygood at branding, and it is
important to small businessesTotally.
Most don't do a very good jobwith it, let's be honest.
No, they don't.
I mean, they cut those cornersand then they wonder why they
don't do that well, but hey,they got word of mouth marketing
though, right?
Yeah, well, word of mouthmarketing starts in really good
(04:29):
branding.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, I know, but that's what they always say.
Well, the thing is is like, ifyou go get counsel from a
marketing professional, likemarketing professionals are
really, like marketing is a big,like yourself, yeah, but I mean
, you can get bloated andcomplicated super quick, but the
reality is is like this, islike this is what you got to do.
You just got to strip out, yep,you know, make it simple, like
(04:54):
here's another thing, mark,here's what I didn't do and I'm.
This is a very small business,right, this, this icon, this
logo, icon from our logo is not,like, known throughout the
entire world.
Right, but here, here we arejust now starting, right, but
all I have on here is thislittle little deal.
It doesn't say podcastvideoscom,your full service tour, key
podcast studio, with all thisand this, and that.
(05:16):
It's just.
I'm impressing you with this,and so you see this, you see the
sign, you see the car, you seethe website, you see all this
and it just, and in your brain,you know, like for visual
creatures, we see colors first,then we see imagery, then we see
design, right, and that's kindof the way our brains operate,
(05:38):
just as human beings, and that'swhat it does.
I'm trying to surround yourheadspace.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, it does.
Yeah, it does two things.
It like connotesprofessionalism, total and
attention to detail, and that'sthat.
It's a real business, not likejust an absurd hobby for
somebody.
And then the other thing Ithink it does is who else are
you going to think of if youneed a podcast video?
Exactly, I'm just glad youcalled the business what it's
(06:06):
actually does.
I'm so damn tired of canoes andnames that mean nothing related
to what the business does.
It's just refreshing.
Thanks, man.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's straight up podcastvideoscom Like.
It's actually even worsebecause I called it by the
domain name.
I called the business thedomain name, but I mean that's
exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's what you should do, because then nobody
ever gets confused about it.
You're not trying to sell twodifferent things.
You're selling one name, period.
That's it Done.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And the domain is beautiful.
But I mean, the final touch tothe branding thing for the small
business person is keep itsimple and then guess what?
Hood it everywhere.
Yeah, and buy it and invest inshirts and caps and coasters and
flyers.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
We did that for Mark Swaggank in the building
business.
Nobody did that in Fayetteville20 years ago.
They just never.
You know, you had a greatwritten and yours was white on
black.
It was Absolutely.
I looked slit.
Every single constructioncompanies driving white trucks
with black lettering or bluelettering.
We had the only black trucks.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It looks as slate dude yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You don't have to do too much with the black and
white, it just looked.
And the same with the signs,the signs with white letters.
It's just, it's easy.
Yeah, now there's a bunch ofyou know copycats out there in
that business, but anyway, well,listen, you know what I wanted
to talk about today.
I had a call this morning withsomebody who is a very, very
(07:41):
successful business person.
You know his whole career hasbeen one of building.
He's bought a lot of businesses.
He's a billionaire.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Okay, so did you say a billion.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Billionaire, great guy.
But in any case, we startedtalking about one of the things
he's interested in is findingsome really motivated young
people to join his businesses.
He's got, you know, he's got abunch of them, yeah, I mean.
And he's always looking fortalent, yeah.
(08:18):
So we started talking about,like, what kind of talent he
wants.
You know, I'm a professor thereat the U of A and and even
though we send everybody to thecareer center when they have
needs for to hire people andthey do a great job with all of
it I mean they we have our owncareer center separate from the
University of Arkansas.
Oh, okay, and they do.
(08:39):
You know the internships andand recruit job fears and all
this.
They do a great job.
But still, I also have peoplecontact me and say, hey, if you
see anybody with this kind ofback, sure, send them my way.
So that's what we were talkingabout today and you know, I
think it's entrepreneurs don'tnecessarily want the same kinds
(09:03):
of employees.
And then big companies no, no,what do you like?
You're a real entrepreneur,okay, you've had a lot of
different things, you're doing alot of different businesses.
You've built up, you've soldout, you started up.
What do you look for Dude?
You're going to look for peoplethat you know that are going to
work particularly, I mean workin your organizations, but maybe
(09:27):
even more closely with youpersonally.
What are, what are kinds ofpeople, do you?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
look for?
I was actually just thinkingabout a new role that I want to
hire, like.
So, number one, as anentrepreneur, when I think of
not a person that hasqualifications first, I think of
a need that I have, plus otherneeds that I have that I can
(09:54):
mash together into a possiblehuman being that can handle all
those things together, right?
So, number one, I'm not lookingfor somebody that studied
something finitely and indetailed.
I'm not kind of.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I'm not looking for a niche type of expert or
knowledge base person yes, youwant like more personality
attributes yes, Right, I thinkof like okay, are you good at
numbers?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well, that tells me this circle of things that you
could be able to handle, whichcould be encompassing, I mean, a
lot of things today and thereand a lot different tomorrow,
but they're going to be relatedto some sort of engineering, top
mindset or numbers, yep.
And then I think of a creativeperson, somebody that has vision
, that can see things that makethings look cool.
That, right, with that person,just like Parker here, he can do
(10:40):
video photography, but then hecan write a little bit.
Even though he's not a writer,I'm still going to push him to
write and I'm like, hey, youknow, write bullet points, build
cell cards, you know, and thenhe designed the studio and so,
because he can see things Right,and he gets it and he loves it
and he's passed.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
So I think about that , A transferable skill there
that you're talking about, butit's not like a narrow defined
Right right.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, and so so I start kind of there because I
think that's important, becauseI don't really it's hard for me
when I say, hey, I need thisspecific role, and then here's a
job description.
Right, oh, hey, writing jobdescriptions.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Dude, I hate job descriptions.
They're terrible.
I absolutely hate them.
And they're not good forentrepreneurs, because as soon
as you try to define whatsomebody's got to do, something
else is going to come up thatyou want them to do.
Right yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And then you set an expectation to the second unless
they have.
You know, what I was going totell you is my next thing unless
they have some sort of visionto it, they're going to be.
They're going to hold thatagainst you.
Yes, and you're in a companylike that.
Yeah, and you're in a companyand I've been held against on
that, like you're in a company.
That makes me crazy.
(11:54):
As an entrepreneur, I don'thave any idea as to what this
company might be doing.
Really, in 30 days, sure, I tryto go for it, or a year or two
years, or yeah, but I could beas fast as 30 days.
But if I walk in, here's mything.
If I walk in the doors 30 daysfrom now, I'm like guys, look
cows, we're doing this.
I want everybody to be likehell, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Right.
It's like a boss mind said tome what's really entrepreneurial
guy back in Memphis 20 or 40years ago.
Okay, he says, if I get up andI tell you we're going to run
East today, then I want you torun East.
If I get up tomorrow and I saywe're going to go West, I want
you to go West.
Yeah, okay, yeah, and it couldchange.
(12:36):
It could change, I mean it'sthe way it is.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Look, here's the deal .
That's not because I think I'mright, it's because that's fun
to me.
Well, you know what I'm sayingLike, and I want to you've got
to respond to what's going on.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, it's not like you just cast your plan and then
you put your blinders on andjust like a robot.
Regardless of what happens, wemust stay on this.
No, it's not the way it works.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yes, and then when they, when the market surpasses
them, they all spend the nextthree months analyzing the post
mortem of it and thenstrategizing their next move.
And it's like, dude, by thetime you've done it, I have
slapped you five times Right asan entrepreneur.
So, but anyway, like you know,and to that point though, like I
(13:22):
don't want to walk in, and Iknow, when it comes across as a
statement of I know what's rightand I'm coming in and I want
people to follow my direction,actually I want it to be able to
walk in and we move the shipbecause the storm is happening.
We can see it, right, everybodycan see it, and I want to work
with the crew that I feel likeI'm part of a team that's
(13:43):
listening to conquer things.
Yes, Because, I can't do italone, no way in hell.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
The problem, though and you're right, it's not all.
You and other people have lotsof ways to contribute to that
and help guide that, make that areality, but the problem is
when you got somebody there onthe ship that's like, now, wait
a minute.
You told me 30 days ago to keepthis course and that's the
course I'm going to keep.
Yeah, right, oh, that's aproblem it is.
(14:11):
I mean, we're dealing with thatright now in a business where
you can set your revenueforecast for the year, but okay,
now we're six weeks into theyear and our revenue forecast is
going to change, all right.
And this person absolutelycannot understand why, as a
small entrepreneurial company,that we don't just stay the
(14:33):
course because it's not going tohappen, all right, yes, it's
not going to.
Now we need to make newdecisions.
Yes, are we just going to likeall jump off a cliff if our
course is headed that way and wedidn't see it before?
No, but some people want that.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Totally.
That's why I mean they shouldbe at the post office.
Yeah, I hear you.
You know, like that always usedto.
I mean I use it a little toomuch for my team and you know
you go to the post office backin the day and there was
inevitably somebody there at thedoor with their hand on the
lock ready to turn it and it's$459.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, I'm kidding, and it's soon, dude, as soon as
that thing hit my, if you'rethere, it doesn't matter.
It's like sorry, the way thatship, maybe I don't know, just
ignore you.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So we always run and joke five o'clock.
Gotta go.
Yeah, you know, it's just likethis.
So I think that.
But to kind of get back to youroriginal question what do I
look for?
I look for people like I when Iinterview, or I look at stuff
and I go search social media.
I look at the people Sure,they're, they're class yeah.
What their activity?
(15:42):
Engagement, what are theytalking about?
What's their attitude?
I'm looking for attitude is allI'm looking for.
I'm looking to see is thisperson going to be able to fit
with us emotionally into thisbusiness?
Yeah, and have passion on it.
That's all I care about.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
That's the most important they can.
You can teach them skills.
They can learn skills Right.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I mean it.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I'm looking for your attitude and that's a hard thing
to see.
It is and you can't reallyinterview it.
I'm sure that there's somepeople that feel like that they
can, but I think the bestindication of the future is the
past.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I mean, I always say that.
I hate to say it, but ifsomebody has never done anything
that shows any real initiativeor balance spinning 27 plates in
the air at the same time youknow those are they haven't had
that kind of experience.
They're going to have a hardtime.
Yeah, yeah, working forsomebody like you or me or this
(16:35):
guy that I told you is moresuccessful than either of us.
Okay, yeah, he's a billionaireout there.
They want flexibility, theywant the ability to multitask.
They want the ability to shiftgears quickly.
Yeah, they want the ability tobe part of a team and not fight,
(16:56):
because this is the way we'vealways done it.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It just makes me a bloke boil and even think about
when you hear that.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I'm sure I probably told you this story, but I talk
about this in my class where wetalk about buying a business and
turning it around and one ofthe problems that you.
You know there's a lot ofpluses about buying a company
versus a cold start Tons, and wecan talk about that someday.
But one of the negatives is youinherit a workforce that may
(17:29):
have a lot of inertia andthey're used to doing things a
certain way.
You know it's like you'll hear,that's the way we've always
done it.
Now they're not as successfulas they want to be, Maybe
they're on the decline, butthat's the way we've always done
it.
I'll never forget this.
One time I had this guy that wasbuilding fences for me and it
was a project over on Lafayette.
(17:49):
I bought three houses in a rowyou might even remember them
over there that were together onone side of the street.
But anyway, I go over there andthe guys put in the gate
hardware on and he's got thegate hardware on.
The fence is done and I go,look at it.
I go, you know it's all good,except the gate hardware is on
upside down.
He goes no, it's not, the lockwould go on top, yeah, Instead
(18:12):
of on the bottom through thehole, yeah, Because that's the
way I've done it for 20 years.
I said then you've been doingit wrong for 20 years.
What can I say you?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
know, just doesn't matter what you've been doing.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Right, it's not right , it's not right and so that is
a problem, and that attitude, Ithink, really can hold you back.
If you're, you know it's noteasy working for entrepreneurs,
because they do change theirmind, they do change direction
and you've got to be sort offleek on your feet to realize in
(18:46):
a small company that's growing,the priorities aren't all just
laid out for the year in advancewith our capital expenditure
program that has been designedby finance and we just boom,
boom, boom.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, it doesn't work that way and I think it's also,
you know, on the hiring process, like if I, if I, was looking
for somebody, it's alsodifferent at what stage of the
business I'm at, absolutely soright now and even when, you
know, in my previous companies,at the beginning stages.
But then there was this point,you know, and we met with JS, my
(19:19):
previous partner.
Yes, yes, like there's a timethat I need to let somebody like
him or somebody else that's gota more.
I mean, when you get intolarger companies, you know, to
larger companies, there's adifferent mentality to it.
Right, you have to startstructuring and things in boxes
and yes, all that stuff and thenI get put in a cage and I stay
(19:40):
in the cage for a long time.
But as long as keep the wildanimal happy, keep them fed,
they kind of need them.
He's our circus clown kind ofthing, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
The only thing that's frustrating to me, having gone
through that, is when thosemanagers that you've hired don't
want you to communicatedirectly with the people below
them.
Yeah, okay, I don't like that.
Yeah, I agree, and I thinkthose people like to communicate
.
Oh, they loved it, the founder,or the yeah, the top person.
(20:12):
You know, absolutely, they loveit, man, and and and, but they
don't want you to do that.
A lot of times, yes, thatstructure.
Well, you know, you're, you're,you're violating the structure
now.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Now, well, they're afraid that you're going to
misalign them and put them onsome sort of like and like level
journey.
I can't tell you amount oftimes like I've had, like as we
were growing, like I wouldn't.
Js was always part of theinterview process in the
beginning, but then there'd besome of these folks that would
come in and they would reach outto me, you know to have 30
minutes.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
They're trying to bypass the JS or whoever.
It's the hiring person.
Well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And Johnny, you understand the history of the
company, Sure, and, but I when,every time and and every time
they'd be, they'd leave themeeting and I would go on some
sort of rampage I only know whatI was saying, but every time
they're like thank you so much.
That really helped meunderstand the importance of the
importance of what this companydoes for the, for the industry,
Right, Not how we help theclient, not all of us but how
(21:12):
are we making a difference inthe industry to make a
difference in the, in the, inthe world, in the community,
Right?
I think that's.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You really believe that and and that's important to
you Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Absolutely Still do.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Same thing you live at.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, 100%, you live at.
It's the only way that I canoperate.
And so if we hire somebody andthey can't understand that or
get behind that like I can't,I'm going to have a hard time
with them, you know, becausethey start thinking too small,
they start thinking tooselfishly.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
You know selfishness, that's a good quality I don't
admire.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
In people.
Oh yeah, totally that I want tohire.
Yeah, that's a bad one.
Not being responsive, that'sanother way.
Yeah, I used to make baddie.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, that does drive you crazy.
You're one of the most engagedpeople I've ever met Like
freaking.
I don't think I've ever waitedmore.
I've ever had to wait more thantwo minutes to hear it get a
response from you.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Well, how you know, how can people?
Just if you're working in anentrepreneurial company, how can
you check out?
And now you know everybody'sgot their emails hitting their
phone right.
Sure, you check out at 530 andyou don't respond until Monday
morning On a Friday, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I don't know how somebody does that.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
How do you?
I don't even know how you coulddo that.
How could I let that go?
Speaker 2 (22:37):
So, but you, you're on a different level, I'm you're
on a different level, like ifyou, but I want that.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I want people like that.
I know.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
That's why I'm.
Whenever I interviewed with youand you started throwing text
message to me like immediatelywhen I was driving away from our
interview a long time ago, Ipulled over and I was like this
dude's testing me, I'm about toshow him what's up I got.
But that's what you're you'relooking for.
I'm looking for another personto kind of understand what's
important to you as anentrepreneur to keep the
(23:09):
business going.
But like, but you don't.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
you want somebody you can volley with that.
You can bounce ideas off ofthat Totally.
It give you an immediateresponse Like for sure you have
an idea.
I don't want to wait three daysto then talk about it.
I mean I just like you said.
I mean I think the environmenttoday that we're in is so much
more competitive.
Everything is changing sorapidly.
(23:32):
I just don't see how one canchoose to slow down their
response to things.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, and that's not going to be an easy thing for
some people to handle at all.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
It's not.
They don't come out of anenvironment where people
function like that and then theyland in your organization.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Now the good news is for, like I think that if it
would be hard to be in aprofessional corporate structure
and then come work for anentrepreneur like yourself, I
mean that would be really,really difficult, although I can
say there are some who rejectthat, they don't want that, they
(24:12):
don't want that.
That's.
I think that's the majority ofpeople.
But I have found some that arelike, specifically, that work at
Walmart, that are really reallyintense, like they're on that
game more than anybody's evermet.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Hey listen, walmart, if you're going to succeed in
that culture, you ain't going tofool around.
You're going to work a lot ofhours, you're going to be super
responsive.
Those are the people who getahead over there.
Oh yeah, oh, dude, they'reanimals.
It's a person's culture.
They're animals.
Yeah, those buyers I mean theyreally drive the business.
Yeah, those buyers are the onesthat are sort of out there with
(24:45):
each one's got their ownbusiness and they're competing.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I'm seeing it a lot with almost about all the words,
all the departments, I meanthey're just, it's a progression
of continuous communication,like I don't know how some of
them do it, like it's almosthumanly impossible in my
perspective.
I mean like, but I can't reallyattach to it because I don't
know how to engage in somethingthat I don't kind of like it to
(25:12):
that level that, where I don't,I'm not the one activating the
change and making it Ultimatedecisions.
Broadly speaking, you know whatI'm saying, like it'd be hard
to, but anyway, I think that you, you know, majority of people,
though would have a hard timecoming out of a corporate
setting.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yes, I agree with you To have that kind of comms with
you Now the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
The good news, though , is when I think about my
daughters and how much they areactive on those phones and a lot
of these youngins Right Likethey could probably handle that
type of communication.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
If they do, yeah even though you I mean, do you ever
text your daughters and theydon't respond?
No, totally Okay, I go throughthat all the time.
So they are on their phone andthey choose not to respond.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
That's the problem is like it's work related,
responsibility related, it'sactivation on the phone.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Absolutely maddening, but anyway.
So this guy was talking to metoday.
He was telling me about one ofhis top guys.
He's 33 years old.
He grew up.
His parents were lower middleclass, his dad was a diesel
mechanic, mom had some kind of ajob you know rural community,
and how he's taken a businessthat this guy acquired for $7
(26:31):
million revenue business to 130million revenue right now
because he's such a hustler.
He's so hungry, he's notentitled, he didn't think
anybody's gonna give himanything.
He's just gonna make it happen.
He's competitive.
He gets up every day and hesays I want to win, I am when
the dammit.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
This is all true, don't you love that?
I totally love being aroundwinners, 100%, 100%.
It's a contagious thing, itreally is, you know, and there's
, but there's people that don'twant to win.
I think that that's one thing,like when you talk about
qualifications, the way I workwith you.
Like you want to hire a winneris all you really want to do
(27:15):
Somebody that will engage,somebody that shows up, somebody
that's thinking, that's driving, that's changing and adapting
all those things that arerequired, cause that's the way
if you can be in a business andrun a business without any
winner mentality, cause losingis not an option and those
(27:35):
people are gonna be yourpartners at some point.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Okay, you're not gonna hold them back.
You don't want to throw theminto this HR created pay
structure.
Oh man, let's see you're amanager too.
Your pay is $78,412 to $90,308.
And you're at $90,308 now.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
We've got nowhere else we can go yeah, unless you
skip this pay band and this nextband.
You have to have X, y and it'sjust like geez man, you gotta
have to freaking doctor it toearn more money.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, I don't care about that location, I care
about their performance.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah Cell.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Okay, hey.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I tell you what.
You come work for me and yousell a million dollars worth of
something on a real quick.
I'm gonna hook you up.
Amen, you're on it.
Amen, period, I'm with you.
Make some digits happen.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
That's the great thing about working as an
employee in a entrepreneurialorganization.
Really, if you're working forsomebody who's a decent
entrepreneur, your opportunitiesare still unlimited.
I mean, they really are.
You're not gonna be capped out.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I just think you're like so on that, like, how do we
help?
Like somebody?
Because I think there's a lotabout opportunity for people
starting their career to workwith entrepreneurs yes, gain so
much from that and actuallybecome wealthy Right, a lot
sooner than you could ever do itsomewhere else.
Because but I think it's thementality of walking in the
(29:11):
doors, like you can't.
I think one number one problemthat I've experienced with
people that have come and workedwith me is that they number one
, they felt like I had a lotmore money than I did, right, oh
, yeah, I've been there.
Number two, they thought that Iwas always gaining from their
work Yep.
And number three, I'm fairlygaining.
(29:33):
I'm fairly gaining, yes.
And then, number three, theythought that I should have been
doing it a lot faster Yep, andif they should have gotten
richer faster, yep.
I mean we could say it doesn't,you can't.
Like.
Building wealth is notsomething that happens in six
months of a year, like it's acontinuous process.
Yeah, you're down an overnightsuccess.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
You're an overnight success after 20 years of work,
is that right?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
That's the exact thing everybody says and it's
the same thing with business tooLike I mean, you know, starting
this one up, I have no, there'sno, yeah, I don't know.
You know, the magical thingabout this is going to take time
to build this up.
Yeah, now I want to move asfast as I can.
Yeah, and there's ways I canmove faster than they've ever
before, right, but like thefolks, you've learned some
things.
Yeah, but the folks that arewith me, like I mean, if that
(30:18):
person number one, these folksthat are with me today helping
to create this thing, if webuild this puppy up and do well,
they're going to do well.
I believe that.
Like, I believe that my heart.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Well, if you're a smart entrepreneur, you know
that you've got to have a createopportunities for people to
stay.
Yeah and yeah, you're not goingto hold them back or cause
you're so greedy, yeah, andshort-sighted.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
What's going to hold everything back is when they get
inside themselves.
They go home, they starttalking to the negative, the
other negative forces.
They watch a negative thing,they hear a negative story and
they hear the negative professorand they hear a negative parent
and a negative friend and anegative friend, negative spouse
, and everybody starts feedingtheir heads Aw, he ain't going
to hook you up.
You've been working too hard,why are you up there working?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
so hard.
Quiet quitting that's when theydo that.
If you heard that turn no,that's where they don't quit.
Wait, they do less.
This is real popular duringCOVID that is.
That is.
That is Post-COVID is quietquitting that's robbery, man.
You haven't been reading your,your social media business
bullshit posts as much as I haveI don't keep up with it, but
(31:24):
that I call that.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You're smart, stealing, robbery and bezel mint
.
What all would you callsomething like that Quiet
quitting?
Is it Cause you are stealingmoney from some, from a lot of?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
people actually.
Well, you're asking to be fired.
I mean, what can I say?
It's, it's.
You're doing a bad job for yourclient.
You're self employed, you gotone client, you're doing a bad
job for them.
So when do you think that'sgonna go Right?
You'll be out of business soon.
Yeah, you will.
It's, it's inevitable.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
But and I'm looking for that person Like can some,
if you walked into, if I cameand worked for you, it is my job
to keep vision and staypositive and come alongside you
and help run drive that businessIf stuff gets twisted up.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Wait a minute.
Wait, if you don't have enoughwork to do, isn't it my job to
assign more things to you?
No, no, it's not.
It's not.
Is it your job to find stuffthat has value?
It increases our productivityand performance.
It's also my honor.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's your job, it's my freaking honor.
Okay, to do that for you andfor us, and for the community
and for the industry.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And for your teammates.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, and it's my honor, right and your honor and
your honor.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yes, it's not something to be avoided, it's
something to be embraced.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Okay, it's at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I'm sorry, I said that that's right, but what
about the beginning of the nextday?
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I said that I remember immediately when I but
like, where is your honor gonnabe?
Uh-huh, and I think that you'regonna be able to say you have a
lot of honor in what you did inyour life and its majority is
gonna be about work related towork.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And it's related to effort.
I hate to say it it's so muchof.
It is just freaking effort.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
It, it, it, it it.
It's just like we.
So you and I have arelationship, right, we're
friends now, but it's been basedupon work, sure, and we have a
professional relationship inthat regard.
But, like, I mean, that'spretty honorable to me.
Of course, relationships iswhat we always remember, but we,
(33:41):
we, we categorize it RightIncorrectly.
We think the only relationshipsthat matter to us are are love
relationships and our kids andour family, and we've put it in
this little bubble, and thenwork is somewhere that just
supports those relationships.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, that's the work-life balance problem I have
.
Exactly, yeah, it should bework-life integration, right.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And so what I think about my life and my
accomplishments and my, myenjoyment, and what I've been
able to achieve on my time here.
I'm thinking about, yes, I'mgonna work, my wife and my
family and my kids but I'm alland my dogs.
But I'm also thinking about allmy work relationships that I've
had over the years.
Of course, some of thebrightest things, like some of
the greatest laughs Right, thebiggest triumphs, some of the
(34:23):
scariest moments are been withthe with the pin.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
what work with well, and not only that.
I mean I'm.
I said to you the other dayafter the cancer challenge lunch
that you organized andsponsored.
I Was so proud of you, I'mproud to be associated with you,
because shit that I mean, I cansee that you really do want to
give back.
Yeah, you are willing to putyour time and money into
(34:49):
something that helps people,with no benefit to you
whatsoever.
Yeah, yeah, other than Maybeyou get some positive feedback
or you meet some people that areinspirational.
Mm-hmm, you know, like thespeaker we had the other day,
yeah, it's gonna be on the showfreaking amazing Trent Dude.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
What a freaking awesome story, man.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
It's an awesome story , but those other relationships
are critical to Maintaining yourinspiration, morale and
motivation.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, I agree, thanks .
I appreciate that because I wasactually just think hearing it
this morning From Napoleon Hilland listening they grow rich,
yeah, but he says like there'sno satisfaction and money.
No one's ever satisfied.
No, the only time you getSatisfactions when you help
other people.
Right, that's like it and it'sbeen based on his interviews of
(35:47):
every.
You talk about billionairesearlier, right, like multi
billionaires that he interviewedback in the day the richest
people of all time.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
It's always one of the satisfaction.
It's again, I'll go back to myteaching and my students.
It's always one of the greatSatisfactions of business
ownership is creating good jobsfor people.
Dude, absolutely, and that'sseeing them thrive, even in
families that you know.
It's not about just enrichingyourself at all, that's not that
(36:17):
rewarding, not at all.
What the other stuff?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
is rewarding.
What I'll think is one of thoserewarding things and the
satisfaction you're getting forthat.
I've kind of nailed it.
Drill that down even further.
It's watching someone elseself-confidence grow.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
And no one that they're going to continue to
grow as that person and they'regonna can be able to, because
you can't contribute unless youhave some self-confidence.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I, I'm sure I told you this, so forgive me if I if
I told you this story before,but it's right in line with that
, yeah, you know.
And and sometimes when we talkabout raising our kids and the
parallels between that andmanagement, sometimes that
bothers me.
I'm like, wait a minute, Idon't want to treat my Employees
like children, but there aresome parallels there.
(37:02):
Because I don't treat my worker, I don't treat my children
necessarily like children, hmm,as some people would, mm-hmm.
But you know, my, mystepdaughter is 21,.
You know now I had told herabout Somebody that I met who
was very inspirational, had alot of businesses and a
(37:23):
nonprofit.
She says I want to meet thatguy.
I'm, I was really like to meethim.
So I set him up.
They texted back and forth.
They get together for coffee acouple times.
The next thing I know she'sdoing a proposal for the guy to
do marketing consulting andshe's mapped this whole program
out and she's gonna sell them 30hours a week of her time.
(37:46):
Okay, at a good rate.
As a psychology student, notbusiness major, and my wife's
like you should go take a lookat that.
You know.
Go see what she's doing beforeshe hits, send on it.
And so I kind of went downthere and you know, hey, you
know, look, let me take a lookat what you're doing, you know.
So let's me see it.
(38:07):
And I thought, you know, firstthing, I'm not all this, I don't
know about the way this wasphrase I could change this
graphic way out, make this look,you know.
And then I said to myself, youknow what, let her fail, I'm not
gonna touch this thing, but I'm, mistakes happen, but if she
succeeds, she'll know she did itall on her own and she did, and
(38:29):
you know what?
I think it's been tremendousfor her development.
She is more confident, totally,by far totally, and she still
works for the guy.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
So freaking awesome dude.
That's a way it all works.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, it really is seeing that confidence that she
knows she can do that initiateand create something out of
nothing.
That's right, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
I love.
It's funny because I'm glad youtold that story, because
there's been so many times, likein business, you know, even
here recently we've been tryingto get this thing opened up.
Sure, this new studio, this newstudio, yeah right, studio, so
many things.
I'm like you know they're doingthat wrong or somebody's doing
(39:15):
this wrong.
You want a micro manager, oneof my manager, do it myself,
right, you know?
Or give feedback and fix it forthem, or whatever.
But it's funny, like you like,when those things happen in your
mind you think how is the bestway to approach this?
But to watch, and they're my,they might take five steps to do
(39:37):
something where I could do itone.
But to allow those five stepsto happen, because I know if
they do that themselves nexttime, next time they're gonna do
just only two steps, yeah thefive.
Yeah, and that's called scalingright, yeah, that's exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And yeah, that's so pivotal.
I mean, honestly, if you lookback on my construction, really
is you so long?
So did you say pivot?
No, I didn't say pivot.
Ah, he said pivotal.
Oh, pivotal.
Okay, well, that's not pivot.
Give me a break.
Okay, I'm gonna lean into thatone.
(40:11):
I Let me lean into that.
Let's hope it doesn't fall overwhen I lean into it.
That's what I always wanna say.
But anyway, now you lost mytrain of thought.
You're saying pivotal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ah,lord.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I should have done that.
Look, I'm an old guy, okay, Idon't care who you look, I'm
sorry, but anyway.
No, I think it really is todevelop people.
But in the constructionbusiness, which we never had any
tremendous success really, Imean we had success.
(40:54):
We got on the ink list, we got,we were doing five or 10
million a year.
We created a great brand.
We did have the highest pricesof anybody in our area at the
time.
We kind of started the wholetrend.
You did, I agree, butfinancially it was never a great
success.
I mean, it was great when wehad a lot of rental properties
and depreciation and sheltering.
(41:14):
Yeah, a bunch of income notpaying taxes.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But you were like getting.
I mean, there wasn't a lot ofcash and profit there really
wasn't.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
It was nice having, like, if you wanted to move, you
had a crew of people.
If you wanted to do anything onyour house, you could make one
call or text and it was doneimmediately.
I love that.
Yeah, that sounds great.
But I never was able to getaway from micro management of
certain aspects of it where Iwould try to develop the people.
(41:46):
But the people I guess you knowyou could say I had the wrong
people, but it's still to thisday.
You know we're doing thisproject, this renovation of our
next house that we bought, andI'm telling you, eric, if I
don't go over there four times aday and look at down to, why is
(42:06):
that piece of trim like that?
Okay, why did you put this herebut not do it there?
I mean, you know it's like thedoors have three types of hinges
.
I've got to tell them threetimes over do not try to put the
hinge on the door, as I replaceall the door hinges throughout
(42:26):
the house and the renovation.
If it doesn't fit on precisely,don't use that hinge.
I've got the right part.
Do not install it wrong, thewrong one.
But I mean it's like if I don'tdo that, I'll come back and
there'll be a guy whittling onthe door putting the wrong
hinges on it.
Well, but it just worked right.
(42:47):
It's like I told you 10freaking times.
Okay, I got the hinges out.
I pointed where they were.
I told your boss this.
It's extremely frustrating, andI do.
I will say it is the differencein certain businesses or
(43:07):
industries.
The quality of the people thatyou deal with really does make a
difference.
You know, as far as thescalability and your management
style and some of the stuff thatwe could sort of take as
universal truths that work withintelligent white collar workers
(43:29):
versus people who might'vedropped out of school in the
seventh grade okay, I mean, I'mjust well if they take pride in
what they do though they maytake pride in it, but they just
don't.
They take a much, much moreintense level of management on a
day-to-day basis than I want todo, would you say, and it hurts
(43:52):
the scalability of those, oh,totally.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Do you think, like there's been a lot of people
that don't like having meetings,like I get that a lot I hate
meetings.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I'm one of them.
I hate you.
I despise meetings.
Unless there's really gooddoughnut or pastries, then
you're in, then I'm in.
I go to New York, I go to thiscompany's board, I'm on.
They have the best Frenchpastries you've ever had in your
life.
You're excited to go to themeeting.
Oh God, does it make me excited?
Really, that's all it takes.
I love those pastries.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
So you're, if I have a meeting and I'd like, hey,
mark, we're having a meeting,would like for you to join us,
at first you're gonna be like Idon't wanna do this as bullshit,
right.
And my next line's like hey, bythe way, we're having some
fantastic pastries.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
These almond croissants and stuff.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
You would immediately return and be like I'm in.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I could last like a couple hours maybe, but longer
than that.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
no, then they'll lose their but when I think of
meetings, I feel like and Idon't know, having got become
good at expressing this, butlike our new director of
operations has what he calls histouch basis every day yeah, I
think daily touch basis, Sure,with the team when you corral.
So I'm just thinking, likeyou're saying, don't put these
(45:09):
hinges on this door, right, butwhat you really need is you need
everybody to huddle up and wehave a quick discussion about
some of the most importantthings of the day and you could
communicate.
Then everybody understands itat once.
Right, does that?
But you don't do that probably.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
No, no, I like that.
I think that's great.
Do you think that would help usIf you have this discipline to
do it?
I think it's absolutely great.
It takes a certain disciplinethat's hard for me to like
consistently say I'm gonna,we're gonna, have a huddle at
eight o'clock every morning orwhatever Cause I'm not always
there at eight o'clock.
No, I'm with you.
Like you know, I said war.
(45:51):
I mean I'm just gonna be.
You just wanna fly in the door,don't you?
Yeah, between phone calls, yeah, I may not want to be doing
that at that time, but I meanagain, this is part of the
problem with entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
That's a good point.
Yeah, because we're notconsistent.
Right, we're the opposite ofconsistency.
Right, you have to be able ifyou're gonna work for an
entrepreneur, you have to beable to be very, very flexible
and dynamic and actually enjoythat ride.
I mean, hill, I don't mind youlaughing at it, I don't mind you
(46:26):
poking fun at it, right, aslong as you participate in it.
Yeah, like, I love it.
Like, if you like, if you knowI'm a little crazy, I'm good
with that, as long as you thinkit's funny.
It's always been part of ourstep.
It has, man.
But if you think I'm crazy andit pisses you off and then you
wanna start changing me Rightand changing the situation and
(46:47):
arguing and trying to get it tofit and put a square peg in a
round hole, that's when itdoesn't work out.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That's why we're unemployable.
Basically, okay, we have to doour own thing because we do not
want to be forced into that mold.
But see, I like that.
I look for people like that too.
I wanna hire otherentrepreneurs.
I wanna hire other futureentrepreneurs.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
What if we okay, can we start a business and get 10
entrepreneurs and we all justtogether hire people?
No, we're all.
Just.
There's my beautiful wifepoking her head through the
window.
It's ma'am, we're almost done.
There's a real boss right there.
I have to kinda answer her.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Now, anyway, what are we gonna do with these 10
entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
We'll just all get together and start a business
and we are the employees.
Yeah, together.
Ooh, that could be fun, dude, Iwonder that'd be a fun
experiment, wouldn't it, wherewe all own the same amount and
we only all put in a hundredbucks, but we all believe in the
same cause and just go get it.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
It could be exciting.
I mean, it really would be agood experiment.
Well, it wouldn't it?
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, maybe we should think about that.
So maybe we should tell ourlisteners if you are an
entrepreneur and you'reinterested in joining the club.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
But you gotta be a real entrepreneur.
It doesn't mean you've had tohave tremendous success, but
better than just you always workfor somebody else and you talk
about it in coffee shops.
Okay, let's.
I mean you have to have.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
You gotta have lived off what you killed, and that's
your freaking job description.
Don't ask for anything moredetailed than that.
Shit right.
The only other thing we'll sendyou is an operating agreement
right, and it's your job to readthat.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
All right.
Well, this conversation isdegenerated.
Eric's wife is outside thestudio.
She's ready to go to your nextengagement.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
She's yeah, she's wanting to go check out a new
restaurant in Bentonville.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Apparently Prelude and Scotch and Soda joined
forces up there Prelude's downin Fayetteville.
Right yeah, they are they stillthere.
They're still there, I think.
But they all, they partner upwith Scotch and Soda to have a
second Prelude.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Well, that sounds good.
I'll be dining at steak andshake today, to the drive-up
window.
Did that food still bath?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, but look at me.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
I know it's tasty.
I mean I'm almost 66, I'm weeksaway, okay, so From 66, I'm
still going, all right.
I mean I feel pretty good.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Are you okay?
Yeah, All right.
So we won't change your dietyet.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
All right, not yet.
You're doing good.
I'm sure at some point I'lllive to regret my behavior.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Maybe you'll be the happiest person and I'm the one
over here eating freakingcarrots and garlic Maybe Dip.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Well, I'm glad that you are.
I am trying to eat salads atleast once a day with my steak
or ribs or Is that really your-?
I am eating salads every day.
Do you drink water?
Yes, some, I mean, isn't therewater and tea and coffee?
Speaker 2 (50:07):
That was.
That's a terrible, terriblediet.
All right, All right.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Well, listen, it's been great talking with you
today and I look forward to ournext episode.
And meanwhile, this has beenanother episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you're interested in ourprior shows, check out our
website atwwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom.
(50:35):
If you'd like to sponsor ourshow and our audience is
continuing to grow okay, we'reglad to take your money, yes,
and talk up your business yeah,as long as it's one we think is
good, I tell you that's a goodchallenge.
That's a good challenge.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Our souls to the corporate debater?
No, no.
But I tell you what, if youwere a cool company and you paid
us some money, it'd be kind ofneat to see how we would talk up
somebody else's business.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, there's a lot of businesses I admire out there
, yeah, so maybe yours is one ofthem.
If so, give us a call.
Yeah, give us some monies.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
And product All right .
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Well, sorry about that to degenerate into that
self-centered pitch there.
But anyway, we'll see you nexttime around and thanks a lot.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about small business.
Over to our website to readarticles, browse episodes and
(51:59):
ask questions about upcomingshows.
Hey everybody, this is Mark Swig and I'm back here
with my buddy, eric Howardton.
What's up One more time in thenew and fabulous, unbelievable
podcast video studio.
It's pretty sick, I have toadmit it is.
It's pretty sick dude.
(00:25):
How many stage sets do we havein here?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We got three large format like this one, this one
we consider large.
The next one is like a V desklike a, like you know, a CNN or
Fox News top show type thing.
And the third one is like alounge chair, kind of like your
Ellen DeGeneres, you know, ingeneral, ellen, ellen, ellen
(00:51):
DeGeneres, oh, degeneres, okay.
And then we got five solo podswhich is basically like a
smaller table like this, whereyou kind of come in and cut your
own social clip, which would befan, like they were getting
into that.
A lot like folks are reallylike even the young ins, or like
they can come in, they just usethe phone, yeah, and they just
(01:11):
use the audio on their phone.
But it gives them a coolenvironment, just a nice audio
controlled environment.
I say you know some of theselittle colors we see in here.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, I can have my daughter come in here and like
sing, yeah, and you could do itin these rooms.
Oh, it's all this.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, I mean it's not going to be like you know
you're super pro, sure, but Imean, no, we can capture
excellent audio, you know, tothese things.
But anyway, like there's a lotof uses for this space, so we
have different sets for yourclients, right?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And you guys do everything from letting them use
the space and record to editingthem down, turnkey.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, and then you can send it back to just a full,
edited down, ready to go, readyto go video.
You can do whatever you want to.
We have what we call ourdiamond package, which we can
it's more of your white loveservices right To where we can
do everything from establishinga brand for your podcasts to
owning the YouTube channel sothat we can or keep that
(02:13):
organized for you yeah,providing social posts and then
data tracking yeah, we doanalytics against that.
Yeah, and we distribute it foryou across all the podcasts
networks Right, and we bring allthose analytics back and kind
of say, hey, man, this is what'sgoing on and we'll even do like
ad sales, I mean, we'll likereceive any.
I mean we could take care ofall the contractual stuff and
(02:35):
then billing with all that.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
That is really a turnkey service.
I don't think anybody else doesthat.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's my knowledge no, I'm sure that there will be,
though like this here's thereality.
I've always said well, at leastmy vision on it is, today we
might have, like you know, ahundred media outlets with
millions of audiences per Right.
It's going to change to wherewe have millions of media
(03:01):
outlets with hundreds ofaudience per so the whole
dynamic shift.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
It's really people consume.
If centralizing, I guess in away, yeah, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Everything will become more niche.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yes, Niche Well podcast videos really is the
first sponsor of big talk aboutsmall business.
Sure the hell is.
You know that it's the de factofor sponsor.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It is.
I'm going to get my commissionthere.
Yeah, I think it's great.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well, I wish you the most success.
I love your branding.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Thanks, yeah, it done a great job.
We got the we kind of.
You know, I guess it's all kindof relatively small business,
but you know, you take, thisisn't our main logo, right, Our
main logo's got color and stuffthat we kind of stripped out and
made this really simple so wecould get on the black.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
You love, black love I do, and black and chrome baby
I do.
Man, you just love it, youalways have Classic man.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I mean, it's simple, timeless and like you can't help
, but just as a human being, tosee that and it means it does.
It gets into your soul, allright.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I like soul marketing .
I love that.
Well, you've always been verygood at branding, and it is
important to small businessesTotally.
Most don't do a very good jobwith it, let's be honest.
No, they don't.
I mean, they cut those cornersand then they wonder why they
don't do that well, but hey,they got word of mouth marketing
though, right?
Yeah, well, word of mouthmarketing starts in really good
(04:29):
branding.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, I know, but that's what they always say.
Well, the thing is is like, ifyou go get counsel from a
marketing professional, likemarketing professionals are
really, like marketing is a big,like yourself, yeah, but I mean
, you can get bloated andcomplicated super quick, but the
reality is is like this, islike this is what you got to do.
You just got to strip out, yep,you know, make it simple, like
(04:54):
here's another thing, mark,here's what I didn't do and I'm.
This is a very small business,right, this, this icon, this
logo, icon from our logo is not,like, known throughout the
entire world.
Right, but here, here we arejust now starting, right, but
all I have on here is thislittle little deal.
It doesn't say podcastvideoscom,your full service tour, key
podcast studio, with all thisand this, and that.
(05:16):
It's just.
I'm impressing you with this,and so you see this, you see the
sign, you see the car, you seethe website, you see all this
and it just, and in your brain,you know, like for visual
creatures, we see colors first,then we see imagery, then we see
design, right, and that's kindof the way our brains operate,
(05:38):
just as human beings, and that'swhat it does.
I'm trying to surround yourheadspace.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, it does.
Yeah, it does two things.
It like connotesprofessionalism, total and
attention to detail, and that'sthat.
It's a real business, not likejust an absurd hobby for
somebody.
And then the other thing Ithink it does is who else are
you going to think of if youneed a podcast video?
Exactly, I'm just glad youcalled the business what it's
(06:06):
actually does.
I'm so damn tired of canoes andnames that mean nothing related
to what the business does.
It's just refreshing.
Thanks, man.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's straight up podcastvideoscom Like.
It's actually even worsebecause I called it by the
domain name.
I called the business thedomain name, but I mean that's
exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
That's what you should do, because then nobody
ever gets confused about it.
You're not trying to sell twodifferent things.
You're selling one name, period.
That's it Done.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And the domain is beautiful.
But I mean, the final touch tothe branding thing for the small
business person is keep itsimple and then guess what?
Hood it everywhere.
Yeah, and buy it and invest inshirts and caps and coasters and
flyers.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
We did that for Mark Swaggank in the building
business.
Nobody did that in Fayetteville20 years ago.
They just never.
You know, you had a greatwritten and yours was white on
black.
It was Absolutely.
I looked slit.
Every single constructioncompanies driving white trucks
with black lettering or bluelettering.
We had the only black trucks.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It looks as slate dude yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You don't have to do too much with the black and
white, it just looked.
And the same with the signs,the signs with white letters.
It's just, it's easy.
Yeah, now there's a bunch ofyou know copycats out there in
that business, but anyway, well,listen, you know what I wanted
to talk about today.
I had a call this morning withsomebody who is a very, very
(07:41):
successful business person.
You know his whole career hasbeen one of building.
He's bought a lot of businesses.
He's a billionaire.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Okay, so did you say a billion.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Billionaire, great guy.
But in any case, we startedtalking about one of the things
he's interested in is findingsome really motivated young
people to join his businesses.
He's got, you know, he's got abunch of them, yeah, I mean.
And he's always looking fortalent, yeah.
(08:18):
So we started talking about,like, what kind of talent he
wants.
You know, I'm a professor thereat the U of A and and even
though we send everybody to thecareer center when they have
needs for to hire people andthey do a great job with all of
it I mean they we have our owncareer center separate from the
University of Arkansas.
Oh, okay, and they do.
(08:39):
You know the internships andand recruit job fears and all
this.
They do a great job.
But still, I also have peoplecontact me and say, hey, if you
see anybody with this kind ofback, sure, send them my way.
So that's what we were talkingabout today and you know, I
think it's entrepreneurs don'tnecessarily want the same kinds
(09:03):
of employees.
And then big companies no, no,what do you like?
You're a real entrepreneur,okay, you've had a lot of
different things, you're doing alot of different businesses.
You've built up, you've soldout, you started up.
What do you look for Dude?
You're going to look for peoplethat you know that are going to
work particularly, I mean workin your organizations, but maybe
(09:27):
even more closely with youpersonally.
What are, what are kinds ofpeople, do you?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
look for?
I was actually just thinkingabout a new role that I want to
hire, like.
So, number one, as anentrepreneur, when I think of
not a person that hasqualifications first, I think of
a need that I have, plus otherneeds that I have that I can
(09:54):
mash together into a possiblehuman being that can handle all
those things together, right?
So, number one, I'm not lookingfor somebody that studied
something finitely and indetailed.
I'm not kind of.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I'm not looking for a niche type of expert or
knowledge base person yes, youwant like more personality
attributes yes, Right, I thinkof like okay, are you good at
numbers?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well, that tells me this circle of things that you
could be able to handle, whichcould be encompassing, I mean, a
lot of things today and thereand a lot different tomorrow,
but they're going to be relatedto some sort of engineering, top
mindset or numbers, yep.
And then I think of a creativeperson, somebody that has vision
, that can see things that makethings look cool.
That, right, with that person,just like Parker here, he can do
(10:40):
video photography, but then hecan write a little bit.
Even though he's not a writer,I'm still going to push him to
write and I'm like, hey, youknow, write bullet points, build
cell cards, you know, and thenhe designed the studio and so,
because he can see things Right,and he gets it and he loves it
and he's passed.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
So I think about that , A transferable skill there
that you're talking about, butit's not like a narrow defined
Right right.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, and so so I start kind of there because I
think that's important, becauseI don't really it's hard for me
when I say, hey, I need thisspecific role, and then here's a
job description.
Right, oh, hey, writing jobdescriptions.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Dude, I hate job descriptions.
They're terrible.
I absolutely hate them.
And they're not good forentrepreneurs, because as soon
as you try to define whatsomebody's got to do, something
else is going to come up thatyou want them to do.
Right yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And then you set an expectation to the second unless
they have.
You know, what I was going totell you is my next thing unless
they have some sort of visionto it, they're going to be.
They're going to hold thatagainst you.
Yes, and you're in a companylike that.
Yeah, and you're in a companyand I've been held against on
that, like you're in a company.
That makes me crazy.
(11:54):
As an entrepreneur, I don'thave any idea as to what this
company might be doing.
Really, in 30 days, sure, I tryto go for it, or a year or two
years, or yeah, but I could beas fast as 30 days.
But if I walk in, here's mything.
If I walk in the doors 30 daysfrom now, I'm like guys, look
cows, we're doing this.
I want everybody to be likehell, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Right.
It's like a boss mind said tome what's really entrepreneurial
guy back in Memphis 20 or 40years ago.
Okay, he says, if I get up andI tell you we're going to run
East today, then I want you torun East.
If I get up tomorrow and I saywe're going to go West, I want
you to go West.
Yeah, okay, yeah, and it couldchange.
(12:36):
It could change, I mean it'sthe way it is.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Look, here's the deal .
That's not because I think I'mright, it's because that's fun
to me.
Well, you know what I'm sayingLike, and I want to you've got
to respond to what's going on.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, it's not like you just cast your plan and then
you put your blinders on andjust like a robot.
Regardless of what happens, wemust stay on this.
No, it's not the way it works.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yes, and then when they, when the market surpasses
them, they all spend the nextthree months analyzing the post
mortem of it and thenstrategizing their next move.
And it's like, dude, by thetime you've done it, I have
slapped you five times Right asan entrepreneur.
So, but anyway, like you know,and to that point though, like I
(13:22):
don't want to walk in, and Iknow, when it comes across as a
statement of I know what's rightand I'm coming in and I want
people to follow my direction,actually I want it to be able to
walk in and we move the shipbecause the storm is happening.
We can see it, right, everybodycan see it, and I want to work
with the crew that I feel likeI'm part of a team that's
(13:43):
listening to conquer things.
Yes, Because, I can't do italone, no way in hell.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
The problem, though and you're right, it's not all.
You and other people have lotsof ways to contribute to that
and help guide that, make that areality, but the problem is
when you got somebody there onthe ship that's like, now, wait
a minute.
You told me 30 days ago to keepthis course and that's the
course I'm going to keep.
Yeah, right, oh, that's aproblem it is.
(14:11):
I mean, we're dealing with thatright now in a business where
you can set your revenueforecast for the year, but okay,
now we're six weeks into theyear and our revenue forecast is
going to change, all right.
And this person absolutelycannot understand why, as a
small entrepreneurial company,that we don't just stay the
(14:33):
course because it's not going tohappen, all right, yes, it's
not going to.
Now we need to make newdecisions.
Yes, are we just going to likeall jump off a cliff if our
course is headed that way and wedidn't see it before?
No, but some people want that.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Totally.
That's why I mean they shouldbe at the post office.
Yeah, I hear you.
You know, like that always usedto.
I mean I use it a little toomuch for my team and you know
you go to the post office backin the day and there was
inevitably somebody there at thedoor with their hand on the
lock ready to turn it and it's$459.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, I'm kidding, and it's soon, dude, as soon as
that thing hit my, if you'rethere, it doesn't matter.
It's like sorry, the way thatship, maybe I don't know, just
ignore you.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So we always run and joke five o'clock.
Gotta go.
Yeah, you know, it's just likethis.
So I think that.
But to kind of get back to youroriginal question what do I
look for?
I look for people like I when Iinterview, or I look at stuff
and I go search social media.
I look at the people Sure,they're, they're class yeah.
What their activity?
(15:42):
Engagement, what are theytalking about?
What's their attitude?
I'm looking for attitude is allI'm looking for.
I'm looking to see is thisperson going to be able to fit
with us emotionally into thisbusiness?
Yeah, and have passion on it.
That's all I care about.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
That's the most important they can.
You can teach them skills.
They can learn skills Right.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I mean it.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I'm looking for your attitude and that's a hard thing
to see.
It is and you can't reallyinterview it.
I'm sure that there's somepeople that feel like that they
can, but I think the bestindication of the future is the
past.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I mean, I always say that.
I hate to say it, but ifsomebody has never done anything
that shows any real initiativeor balance spinning 27 plates in
the air at the same time youknow those are they haven't had
that kind of experience.
They're going to have a hardtime.
Yeah, yeah, working forsomebody like you or me or this
(16:35):
guy that I told you is moresuccessful than either of us.
Okay, yeah, he's a billionaireout there.
They want flexibility, theywant the ability to multitask.
They want the ability to shiftgears quickly.
Yeah, they want the ability tobe part of a team and not fight,
(16:56):
because this is the way we'vealways done it.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It just makes me a bloke boil and even think about
when you hear that.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I'm sure I probably told you this story, but I talk
about this in my class where wetalk about buying a business and
turning it around and one ofthe problems that you.
You know there's a lot ofpluses about buying a company
versus a cold start Tons, and wecan talk about that someday.
But one of the negatives is youinherit a workforce that may
(17:29):
have a lot of inertia andthey're used to doing things a
certain way.
You know it's like you'll hear,that's the way we've always
done it.
Now they're not as successfulas they want to be, Maybe
they're on the decline, butthat's the way we've always done
it.
I'll never forget this.
One time I had this guy that wasbuilding fences for me and it
was a project over on Lafayette.
(17:49):
I bought three houses in a rowyou might even remember them
over there that were together onone side of the street.
But anyway, I go over there andthe guys put in the gate
hardware on and he's got thegate hardware on.
The fence is done and I go,look at it.
I go, you know it's all good,except the gate hardware is on
upside down.
He goes no, it's not, the lockwould go on top, yeah, Instead
(18:12):
of on the bottom through thehole, yeah, Because that's the
way I've done it for 20 years.
I said then you've been doingit wrong for 20 years.
What can I say you?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
know, just doesn't matter what you've been doing.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Right, it's not right , it's not right and so that is
a problem, and that attitude, Ithink, really can hold you back.
If you're, you know it's noteasy working for entrepreneurs,
because they do change theirmind, they do change direction
and you've got to be sort offleek on your feet to realize in
(18:46):
a small company that's growing,the priorities aren't all just
laid out for the year in advancewith our capital expenditure
program that has been designedby finance and we just boom,
boom, boom.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, it doesn't work that way and I think it's also,
you know, on the hiring process, like if I, if I, was looking
for somebody, it's alsodifferent at what stage of the
business I'm at, absolutely soright now and even when, you
know, in my previous companies,at the beginning stages.
But then there was this point,you know, and we met with JS, my
(19:19):
previous partner.
Yes, yes, like there's a timethat I need to let somebody like
him or somebody else that's gota more.
I mean, when you get intolarger companies, you know, to
larger companies, there's adifferent mentality to it.
Right, you have to startstructuring and things in boxes
and yes, all that stuff and thenI get put in a cage and I stay
(19:40):
in the cage for a long time.
But as long as keep the wildanimal happy, keep them fed,
they kind of need them.
He's our circus clown kind ofthing, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
The only thing that's frustrating to me, having gone
through that, is when thosemanagers that you've hired don't
want you to communicatedirectly with the people below
them.
Yeah, okay, I don't like that.
Yeah, I agree, and I thinkthose people like to communicate
.
Oh, they loved it, the founder,or the yeah, the top person.
(20:12):
You know, absolutely, they loveit, man, and and and, but they
don't want you to do that.
A lot of times, yes, thatstructure.
Well, you know, you're, you're,you're violating the structure
now.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Now, well, they're afraid that you're going to
misalign them and put them onsome sort of like and like level
journey.
I can't tell you amount oftimes like I've had, like as we
were growing, like I wouldn't.
Js was always part of theinterview process in the
beginning, but then there'd besome of these folks that would
come in and they would reach outto me, you know to have 30
minutes.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
They're trying to bypass the JS or whoever.
It's the hiring person.
Well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And Johnny, you understand the history of the
company, Sure, and, but I when,every time and and every time
they'd be, they'd leave themeeting and I would go on some
sort of rampage I only know whatI was saying, but every time
they're like thank you so much.
That really helped meunderstand the importance of the
importance of what this companydoes for the, for the industry,
Right, Not how we help theclient, not all of us but how
(21:12):
are we making a difference inthe industry to make a
difference in the, in the, inthe world, in the community,
Right?
I think that's.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You really believe that and and that's important to
you Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Absolutely Still do.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Same thing you live at.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, 100%, you live at.
It's the only way that I canoperate.
And so if we hire somebody andthey can't understand that or
get behind that like I can't,I'm going to have a hard time
with them, you know, becausethey start thinking too small,
they start thinking tooselfishly.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
You know selfishness, that's a good quality I don't
admire.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
In people.
Oh yeah, totally that I want tohire.
Yeah, that's a bad one.
Not being responsive, that'sanother way.
Yeah, I used to make baddie.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, that does drive you crazy.
You're one of the most engagedpeople I've ever met Like
freaking.
I don't think I've ever waitedmore.
I've ever had to wait more thantwo minutes to hear it get a
response from you.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Well, how you know, how can people?
Just if you're working in anentrepreneurial company, how can
you check out?
And now you know everybody'sgot their emails hitting their
phone right.
Sure, you check out at 530 andyou don't respond until Monday
morning On a Friday, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I don't know how somebody does that.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
How do you?
I don't even know how you coulddo that.
How could I let that go?
Speaker 2 (22:37):
So, but you, you're on a different level, I'm you're
on a different level, like ifyou, but I want that.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I want people like that.
I know.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
That's why I'm.
Whenever I interviewed with youand you started throwing text
message to me like immediatelywhen I was driving away from our
interview a long time ago, Ipulled over and I was like this
dude's testing me, I'm about toshow him what's up I got.
But that's what you're you'relooking for.
I'm looking for another personto kind of understand what's
important to you as anentrepreneur to keep the
(23:09):
business going.
But like, but you don't.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
you want somebody you can volley with that.
You can bounce ideas off ofthat Totally.
It give you an immediateresponse Like for sure you have
an idea.
I don't want to wait three daysto then talk about it.
I mean I just like you said.
I mean I think the environmenttoday that we're in is so much
more competitive.
Everything is changing sorapidly.
(23:32):
I just don't see how one canchoose to slow down their
response to things.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, and that's not going to be an easy thing for
some people to handle at all.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
It's not.
They don't come out of anenvironment where people
function like that and then theyland in your organization.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Now the good news is for, like I think that if it
would be hard to be in aprofessional corporate structure
and then come work for anentrepreneur like yourself, I
mean that would be really,really difficult, although I can
say there are some who rejectthat, they don't want that, they
(24:12):
don't want that.
That's.
I think that's the majority ofpeople.
But I have found some that arelike, specifically, that work at
Walmart, that are really reallyintense, like they're on that
game more than anybody's evermet.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Hey listen, walmart, if you're going to succeed in
that culture, you ain't going tofool around.
You're going to work a lot ofhours, you're going to be super
responsive.
Those are the people who getahead over there.
Oh yeah, oh, dude, they'reanimals.
It's a person's culture.
They're animals.
Yeah, those buyers I mean theyreally drive the business.
Yeah, those buyers are the onesthat are sort of out there with
(24:45):
each one's got their ownbusiness and they're competing.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I'm seeing it a lot with almost about all the words,
all the departments, I meanthey're just, it's a progression
of continuous communication,like I don't know how some of
them do it, like it's almosthumanly impossible in my
perspective.
I mean like, but I can't reallyattach to it because I don't
know how to engage in somethingthat I don't kind of like it to
(25:12):
that level that, where I don't,I'm not the one activating the
change and making it Ultimatedecisions.
Broadly speaking, you know whatI'm saying, like it'd be hard
to, but anyway, I think that you, you know, majority of people,
though would have a hard timecoming out of a corporate
setting.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yes, I agree with you To have that kind of comms with
you Now the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
The good news, though , is when I think about my
daughters and how much they areactive on those phones and a lot
of these youngins Right Likethey could probably handle that
type of communication.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
If they do, yeah even though you I mean, do you ever
text your daughters and theydon't respond?
No, totally Okay, I go throughthat all the time.
So they are on their phone andthey choose not to respond.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
That's the problem is like it's work related,
responsibility related, it'sactivation on the phone.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Absolutely maddening, but anyway.
So this guy was talking to metoday.
He was telling me about one ofhis top guys.
He's 33 years old.
He grew up.
His parents were lower middleclass, his dad was a diesel
mechanic, mom had some kind of ajob you know rural community,
and how he's taken a businessthat this guy acquired for $7
(26:31):
million revenue business to 130million revenue right now
because he's such a hustler.
He's so hungry, he's notentitled, he didn't think
anybody's gonna give himanything.
He's just gonna make it happen.
He's competitive.
He gets up every day and hesays I want to win, I am when
the dammit.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
This is all true, don't you love that?
I totally love being aroundwinners, 100%, 100%.
It's a contagious thing, itreally is, you know, and there's
, but there's people that don'twant to win.
I think that that's one thing,like when you talk about
qualifications, the way I workwith you.
Like you want to hire a winneris all you really want to do
(27:15):
Somebody that will engage,somebody that shows up, somebody
that's thinking, that's driving, that's changing and adapting
all those things that arerequired, cause that's the way
if you can be in a business andrun a business without any
winner mentality, cause losingis not an option and those
(27:35):
people are gonna be yourpartners at some point.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Okay, you're not gonna hold them back.
You don't want to throw theminto this HR created pay
structure.
Oh man, let's see you're amanager too.
Your pay is $78,412 to $90,308.
And you're at $90,308 now.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
We've got nowhere else we can go yeah, unless you
skip this pay band and this nextband.
You have to have X, y and it'sjust like geez man, you gotta
have to freaking doctor it toearn more money.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, I don't care about that location, I care
about their performance.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah Cell.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Okay, hey.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I tell you what.
You come work for me and yousell a million dollars worth of
something on a real quick.
I'm gonna hook you up.
Amen, you're on it.
Amen, period, I'm with you.
Make some digits happen.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
That's the great thing about working as an
employee in a entrepreneurialorganization.
Really, if you're working forsomebody who's a decent
entrepreneur, your opportunitiesare still unlimited.
I mean, they really are.
You're not gonna be capped out.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I just think you're like so on that, like, how do we
help?
Like somebody?
Because I think there's a lotabout opportunity for people
starting their career to workwith entrepreneurs yes, gain so
much from that and actuallybecome wealthy Right, a lot
sooner than you could ever do itsomewhere else.
Because but I think it's thementality of walking in the
(29:11):
doors, like you can't.
I think one number one problemthat I've experienced with
people that have come and workedwith me is that they number one
, they felt like I had a lotmore money than I did, right, oh
, yeah, I've been there.
Number two, they thought that Iwas always gaining from their
work Yep.
And number three, I'm fairlygaining.
(29:33):
I'm fairly gaining, yes.
And then, number three, theythought that I should have been
doing it a lot faster Yep, andif they should have gotten
richer faster, yep.
I mean we could say it doesn't,you can't.
Like.
Building wealth is notsomething that happens in six
months of a year, like it's acontinuous process.
Yeah, you're down an overnightsuccess.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
You're an overnight success after 20 years of work,
is that right?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
That's the exact thing everybody says and it's
the same thing with business tooLike I mean, you know, starting
this one up, I have no, there'sno, yeah, I don't know.
You know, the magical thingabout this is going to take time
to build this up.
Yeah, now I want to move asfast as I can.
Yeah, and there's ways I canmove faster than they've ever
before, right, but like thefolks, you've learned some
things.
Yeah, but the folks that arewith me, like I mean, if that
(30:18):
person number one, these folksthat are with me today helping
to create this thing, if webuild this puppy up and do well,
they're going to do well.
I believe that.
Like, I believe that my heart.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Well, if you're a smart entrepreneur, you know
that you've got to have a createopportunities for people to
stay.
Yeah and yeah, you're not goingto hold them back or cause
you're so greedy, yeah, andshort-sighted.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
What's going to hold everything back is when they get
inside themselves.
They go home, they starttalking to the negative, the
other negative forces.
They watch a negative thing,they hear a negative story and
they hear the negative professorand they hear a negative parent
and a negative friend and anegative friend, negative spouse
, and everybody starts feedingtheir heads Aw, he ain't going
to hook you up.
You've been working too hard,why are you up there working?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
so hard.
Quiet quitting that's when theydo that.
If you heard that turn no,that's where they don't quit.
Wait, they do less.
This is real popular duringCOVID that is.
That is.
That is Post-COVID is quietquitting that's robbery, man.
You haven't been reading your,your social media business
bullshit posts as much as I haveI don't keep up with it, but
(31:24):
that I call that.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You're smart, stealing, robbery and bezel mint
.
What all would you callsomething like that Quiet
quitting?
Is it Cause you are stealingmoney from some, from a lot of?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
people actually.
Well, you're asking to be fired.
I mean, what can I say?
It's, it's.
You're doing a bad job for yourclient.
You're self employed, you gotone client, you're doing a bad
job for them.
So when do you think that'sgonna go Right?
You'll be out of business soon.
Yeah, you will.
It's, it's inevitable.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
But and I'm looking for that person Like can some,
if you walked into, if I cameand worked for you, it is my job
to keep vision and staypositive and come alongside you
and help run drive that businessIf stuff gets twisted up.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Wait a minute.
Wait, if you don't have enoughwork to do, isn't it my job to
assign more things to you?
No, no, it's not.
It's not.
Is it your job to find stuffthat has value?
It increases our productivityand performance.
It's also my honor.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's your job, it's my freaking honor.
Okay, to do that for you andfor us, and for the community
and for the industry.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And for your teammates.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, and it's my honor, right and your honor and
your honor.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yes, it's not something to be avoided, it's
something to be embraced.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Okay, it's at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I'm sorry, I said that that's right, but what
about the beginning of the nextday?
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I said that I remember immediately when I but
like, where is your honor gonnabe?
Uh-huh, and I think that you'regonna be able to say you have a
lot of honor in what you did inyour life and its majority is
gonna be about work related towork.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And it's related to effort.
I hate to say it it's so muchof.
It is just freaking effort.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
It, it, it, it it.
It's just like we.
So you and I have arelationship, right, we're
friends now, but it's been basedupon work, sure, and we have a
professional relationship inthat regard.
But, like, I mean, that'spretty honorable to me.
Of course, relationships iswhat we always remember, but we,
(33:41):
we, we categorize it RightIncorrectly.
We think the only relationshipsthat matter to us are are love
relationships and our kids andour family, and we've put it in
this little bubble, and thenwork is somewhere that just
supports those relationships.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, that's the work-life balance problem I have
.
Exactly, yeah, it should bework-life integration, right.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And so what I think about my life and my
accomplishments and my, myenjoyment, and what I've been
able to achieve on my time here.
I'm thinking about, yes, I'mgonna work, my wife and my
family and my kids but I'm alland my dogs.
But I'm also thinking about allmy work relationships that I've
had over the years.
Of course, some of thebrightest things, like some of
the greatest laughs Right, thebiggest triumphs, some of the
(34:23):
scariest moments are been withthe with the pin.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
what work with well, and not only that.
I mean I'm.
I said to you the other dayafter the cancer challenge lunch
that you organized andsponsored.
I Was so proud of you, I'mproud to be associated with you,
because shit that I mean, I cansee that you really do want to
give back.
Yeah, you are willing to putyour time and money into
(34:49):
something that helps people,with no benefit to you
whatsoever.
Yeah, yeah, other than Maybeyou get some positive feedback
or you meet some people that areinspirational.
Mm-hmm, you know, like thespeaker we had the other day,
yeah, it's gonna be on the showfreaking amazing Trent Dude.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
What a freaking awesome story, man.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
It's an awesome story , but those other relationships
are critical to Maintaining yourinspiration, morale and
motivation.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, I agree, thanks .
I appreciate that because I wasactually just think hearing it
this morning From Napoleon Hilland listening they grow rich,
yeah, but he says like there'sno satisfaction and money.
No one's ever satisfied.
No, the only time you getSatisfactions when you help
other people.
Right, that's like it and it'sbeen based on his interviews of
(35:47):
every.
You talk about billionairesearlier, right, like multi
billionaires that he interviewedback in the day the richest
people of all time.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
It's always one of the satisfaction.
It's again, I'll go back to myteaching and my students.
It's always one of the greatSatisfactions of business
ownership is creating good jobsfor people.
Dude, absolutely, and that'sseeing them thrive, even in
families that you know.
It's not about just enrichingyourself at all, that's not that
(36:17):
rewarding, not at all.
What the other stuff?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
is rewarding.
What I'll think is one of thoserewarding things and the
satisfaction you're getting forthat.
I've kind of nailed it.
Drill that down even further.
It's watching someone elseself-confidence grow.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
And no one that they're going to continue to
grow as that person and they'regonna can be able to, because
you can't contribute unless youhave some self-confidence.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I, I'm sure I told you this, so forgive me if I if
I told you this story before,but it's right in line with that
, yeah, you know.
And and sometimes when we talkabout raising our kids and the
parallels between that andmanagement, sometimes that
bothers me.
I'm like, wait a minute, Idon't want to treat my Employees
like children, but there aresome parallels there.
(37:02):
Because I don't treat my worker, I don't treat my children
necessarily like children, hmm,as some people would, mm-hmm.
But you know, my, mystepdaughter is 21,.
You know now I had told herabout Somebody that I met who
was very inspirational, had alot of businesses and a
(37:23):
nonprofit.
She says I want to meet thatguy.
I'm, I was really like to meethim.
So I set him up.
They texted back and forth.
They get together for coffee acouple times.
The next thing I know she'sdoing a proposal for the guy to
do marketing consulting andshe's mapped this whole program
out and she's gonna sell them 30hours a week of her time.
(37:46):
Okay, at a good rate.
As a psychology student, notbusiness major, and my wife's
like you should go take a lookat that.
You know.
Go see what she's doing beforeshe hits, send on it.
And so I kind of went downthere and you know, hey, you
know, look, let me take a lookat what you're doing, you know.
So let's me see it.
(38:07):
And I thought, you know, firstthing, I'm not all this, I don't
know about the way this wasphrase I could change this
graphic way out, make this look,you know.
And then I said to myself, youknow what, let her fail, I'm not
gonna touch this thing, but I'm, mistakes happen, but if she
succeeds, she'll know she did itall on her own and she did, and
(38:29):
you know what?
I think it's been tremendousfor her development.
She is more confident, totally,by far totally, and she still
works for the guy.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
So freaking awesome dude.
That's a way it all works.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, it really is seeing that confidence that she
knows she can do that initiateand create something out of
nothing.
That's right, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
I love.
It's funny because I'm glad youtold that story, because
there's been so many times, likein business, you know, even
here recently we've been tryingto get this thing opened up.
Sure, this new studio, this newstudio, yeah right, studio, so
many things.
I'm like you know they're doingthat wrong or somebody's doing
(39:15):
this wrong.
You want a micro manager, oneof my manager, do it myself,
right, you know?
Or give feedback and fix it forthem, or whatever.
But it's funny, like you like,when those things happen in your
mind you think how is the bestway to approach this?
But to watch, and they're my,they might take five steps to do
(39:37):
something where I could do itone.
But to allow those five stepsto happen, because I know if
they do that themselves nexttime, next time they're gonna do
just only two steps, yeah thefive.
Yeah, and that's called scalingright, yeah, that's exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
And yeah, that's so pivotal.
I mean, honestly, if you lookback on my construction, really
is you so long?
So did you say pivot?
No, I didn't say pivot.
Ah, he said pivotal.
Oh, pivotal.
Okay, well, that's not pivot.
Give me a break.
Okay, I'm gonna lean into thatone.
(40:11):
I Let me lean into that.
Let's hope it doesn't fall overwhen I lean into it.
That's what I always wanna say.
But anyway, now you lost mytrain of thought.
You're saying pivotal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ah,lord.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I should have done that.
Look, I'm an old guy, okay, Idon't care who you look, I'm
sorry, but anyway.
No, I think it really is todevelop people.
But in the constructionbusiness, which we never had any
tremendous success really, Imean we had success.
(40:54):
We got on the ink list, we got,we were doing five or 10
million a year.
We created a great brand.
We did have the highest pricesof anybody in our area at the
time.
We kind of started the wholetrend.
You did, I agree, butfinancially it was never a great
success.
I mean, it was great when wehad a lot of rental properties
and depreciation and sheltering.
(41:14):
Yeah, a bunch of income notpaying taxes.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But you were like getting.
I mean, there wasn't a lot ofcash and profit there really
wasn't.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
It was nice having, like, if you wanted to move, you
had a crew of people.
If you wanted to do anything onyour house, you could make one
call or text and it was doneimmediately.
I love that.
Yeah, that sounds great.
But I never was able to getaway from micro management of
certain aspects of it where Iwould try to develop the people.
(41:46):
But the people I guess you knowyou could say I had the wrong
people, but it's still to thisday.
You know we're doing thisproject, this renovation of our
next house that we bought, andI'm telling you, eric, if I
don't go over there four times aday and look at down to, why is
(42:06):
that piece of trim like that?
Okay, why did you put this herebut not do it there?
I mean, you know it's like thedoors have three types of hinges
.
I've got to tell them threetimes over do not try to put the
hinge on the door, as I replaceall the door hinges throughout
(42:26):
the house and the renovation.
If it doesn't fit on precisely,don't use that hinge.
I've got the right part.
Do not install it wrong, thewrong one.
But I mean it's like if I don'tdo that, I'll come back and
there'll be a guy whittling onthe door putting the wrong
hinges on it.
Well, but it just worked right.
(42:47):
It's like I told you 10freaking times.
Okay, I got the hinges out.
I pointed where they were.
I told your boss this.
It's extremely frustrating, andI do.
I will say it is the differencein certain businesses or
(43:07):
industries.
The quality of the people thatyou deal with really does make a
difference.
You know, as far as thescalability and your management
style and some of the stuff thatwe could sort of take as
universal truths that work withintelligent white collar workers
(43:29):
versus people who might'vedropped out of school in the
seventh grade okay, I mean, I'mjust well if they take pride in
what they do though they maytake pride in it, but they just
don't.
They take a much, much moreintense level of management on a
day-to-day basis than I want todo, would you say, and it hurts
(43:52):
the scalability of those, oh,totally.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Do you think, like there's been a lot of people
that don't like having meetings,like I get that a lot I hate
meetings.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I'm one of them.
I hate you.
I despise meetings.
Unless there's really gooddoughnut or pastries, then
you're in, then I'm in.
I go to New York, I go to thiscompany's board, I'm on.
They have the best Frenchpastries you've ever had in your
life.
You're excited to go to themeeting.
Oh God, does it make me excited?
Really, that's all it takes.
I love those pastries.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
So you're, if I have a meeting and I'd like, hey,
mark, we're having a meeting,would like for you to join us,
at first you're gonna be like Idon't wanna do this as bullshit,
right.
And my next line's like hey, bythe way, we're having some
fantastic pastries.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
These almond croissants and stuff.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
You would immediately return and be like I'm in.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I could last like a couple hours maybe, but longer
than that.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
no, then they'll lose their but when I think of
meetings, I feel like and Idon't know, having got become
good at expressing this, butlike our new director of
operations has what he calls histouch basis every day yeah, I
think daily touch basis, Sure,with the team when you corral.
So I'm just thinking, likeyou're saying, don't put these
(45:09):
hinges on this door, right, butwhat you really need is you need
everybody to huddle up and wehave a quick discussion about
some of the most importantthings of the day and you could
communicate.
Then everybody understands itat once.
Right, does that?
But you don't do that probably.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
No, no, I like that.
I think that's great.
Do you think that would help usIf you have this discipline to
do it?
I think it's absolutely great.
It takes a certain disciplinethat's hard for me to like
consistently say I'm gonna,we're gonna, have a huddle at
eight o'clock every morning orwhatever Cause I'm not always
there at eight o'clock.
No, I'm with you.
Like you know, I said war.
(45:51):
I mean I'm just gonna be.
You just wanna fly in the door,don't you?
Yeah, between phone calls, yeah, I may not want to be doing
that at that time, but I meanagain, this is part of the
problem with entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
That's a good point.
Yeah, because we're notconsistent.
Right, we're the opposite ofconsistency.
Right, you have to be able ifyou're gonna work for an
entrepreneur, you have to beable to be very, very flexible
and dynamic and actually enjoythat ride.
I mean, hill, I don't mind youlaughing at it, I don't mind you
(46:26):
poking fun at it, right, aslong as you participate in it.
Yeah, like, I love it.
Like, if you like, if you knowI'm a little crazy, I'm good
with that, as long as you thinkit's funny.
It's always been part of ourstep.
It has, man.
But if you think I'm crazy andit pisses you off and then you
wanna start changing me Rightand changing the situation and
(46:47):
arguing and trying to get it tofit and put a square peg in a
round hole, that's when itdoesn't work out.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That's why we're unemployable.
Basically, okay, we have to doour own thing because we do not
want to be forced into that mold.
But see, I like that.
I look for people like that too.
I wanna hire otherentrepreneurs.
I wanna hire other futureentrepreneurs.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
What if we okay, can we start a business and get 10
entrepreneurs and we all justtogether hire people?
No, we're all.
Just.
There's my beautiful wifepoking her head through the
window.
It's ma'am, we're almost done.
There's a real boss right there.
I have to kinda answer her.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Now, anyway, what are we gonna do with these 10
entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
We'll just all get together and start a business
and we are the employees.
Yeah, together.
Ooh, that could be fun, dude, Iwonder that'd be a fun
experiment, wouldn't it, wherewe all own the same amount and
we only all put in a hundredbucks, but we all believe in the
same cause and just go get it.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
It could be exciting.
I mean, it really would be agood experiment.
Well, it wouldn't it?
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, maybe we should think about that.
So maybe we should tell ourlisteners if you are an
entrepreneur and you'reinterested in joining the club.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
But you gotta be a real entrepreneur.
It doesn't mean you've had tohave tremendous success, but
better than just you always workfor somebody else and you talk
about it in coffee shops.
Okay, let's.
I mean you have to have.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
You gotta have lived off what you killed, and that's
your freaking job description.
Don't ask for anything moredetailed than that.
Shit right.
The only other thing we'll sendyou is an operating agreement
right, and it's your job to readthat.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
All right.
Well, this conversation isdegenerated.
Eric's wife is outside thestudio.
She's ready to go to your nextengagement.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
She's yeah, she's wanting to go check out a new
restaurant in Bentonville.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Apparently Prelude and Scotch and Soda joined
forces up there Prelude's downin Fayetteville.
Right yeah, they are they stillthere.
They're still there, I think.
But they all, they partner upwith Scotch and Soda to have a
second Prelude.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Well, that sounds good.
I'll be dining at steak andshake today, to the drive-up
window.
Did that food still bath?
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, but look at me.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
I know it's tasty.
I mean I'm almost 66, I'm weeksaway, okay, so From 66, I'm
still going, all right.
I mean I feel pretty good.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Are you okay?
Yeah, All right.
So we won't change your dietyet.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
All right, not yet.
You're doing good.
I'm sure at some point I'lllive to regret my behavior.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Maybe you'll be the happiest person and I'm the one
over here eating freakingcarrots and garlic Maybe Dip.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Well, I'm glad that you are.
I am trying to eat salads atleast once a day with my steak
or ribs or Is that really your-?
I am eating salads every day.
Do you drink water?
Yes, some, I mean, isn't therewater and tea and coffee?
Speaker 2 (50:07):
That was.
That's a terrible, terriblediet.
All right, All right.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Well, listen, it's been great talking with you
today and I look forward to ournext episode.
And meanwhile, this has beenanother episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you're interested in ourprior shows, check out our
website atwwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom.
(50:35):
If you'd like to sponsor ourshow and our audience is
continuing to grow okay, we'reglad to take your money, yes,
and talk up your business yeah,as long as it's one we think is
good, I tell you that's a goodchallenge.
That's a good challenge.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Our souls to the corporate debater?
No, no.
But I tell you what, if youwere a cool company and you paid
us some money, it'd be kind ofneat to see how we would talk up
somebody else's business.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, there's a lot of businesses I admire out there
, yeah, so maybe yours is one ofthem.
If so, give us a call.
Yeah, give us some monies.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
And product All right .
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Well, sorry about that to degenerate into that
self-centered pitch there.
But anyway, we'll see you nexttime around and thanks a lot.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about small business.
Over to our website to readarticles, browse episodes and
(51:59):
ask questions about upcomingshows.
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