Death by Cannabis: Inside a Grow-Op Murder Mystery with Steve Stacey

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Ever wondered what really happens behind the scenes at a legal cannabis grow operation? Author Steve Stacey pulls back the curtain in this fascinating conversation about his journey from passionate cultivator to cannabis industry professional to murder mystery novelist.

Steve's books, Death by Cannabis and Death by Cannabis: The Re-Up, blend authentic industry knowledge with compelling storytelling. Drawing from his years working in production and marketing at a licensed producer, Steve captures the historic transition from prohibition to legalization through the eyes of a diverse set of characters working at the local grow op. What began as listening to colleagues share their experiences evolved into a creative mission to document cannabis culture authentically.

What truly sets Steve's work apart is his innovative use of augmented reality technology. By scanning QR codes within the books, readers unlock videos that enhance the storytelling experience – a glimpse into the future of interactive literature. 

For readers seeking authentic cannabis fiction that balances entertainment with genuine industry insights, these books offer a refreshing perspective from someone who's truly lived the experience.

Follow Steve on Instagram @deathbycanna and find his books on Amazon to experience this unique blend of cannabis culture, murder mystery, and augmented reality storytelling for yourself.

Continue the conversation and start connecting—head to JoinBiteMe.com right now. You'll find a private community of cannabis growers, makers and lovers who are just as obsessed or curious as you are.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:03):
And the sun is shining friends, it's episode
310.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
And today we're talking to Steve Stacey, author
of Death by Cannabis.
Welcome to Bite Me, the showabout edibles, where I help you
take control of your high life.
I'm your host and certifiedganger, margaret, and I love
helping cooks make safe andeffective edibles at home.
I'm so glad you're here.
Welcome back, friends, toanother fabulous episode of Bite

(00:30):
Me, the Show About Edibles,where we explore the
intersection of food culture andcannabis while helping cooks
make great edibles at home.
But today we are getting out ofthe kitchen because, frankly,
where I live it is too damn hotto turn on the stove.
So I am thrilled to bring youthis conversation with Steve
Stacey.
You're going to learn more aboutSteve's personal journey today,
but I had the pleasure to meetSteve earlier this year in

(00:52):
person and bought his books fromhim, and the topic of today's
episode death by cannabis anddeath by cannabis the re-up a
murder mystery that takes placein a grow up.
Steve was friendly, personableand kind and I knew I needed to
have him on the show to talkabout his books and, don't worry
, there's no spoilers.
So when I'm not in the kitchenmaking edibles or recording

(01:13):
podcast episodes or listening topodcasts, you can often find me
with a book in hand, and Irecommend these books, and if
you're not convinced by the endof the episode, then you'll have
to let me know books, and ifyou're not convinced by the end
of the episode, then you'll haveto let me know.
We cover a number of things inthis episode, such as what
inspired him to write Death byCannabis in the first place, his
creative writing process andwhat parts of writing these

(01:34):
books brought him the most joy.
We cover a whole lot more inthis episode and I know you're
going to enjoy it.
So, without further ado, pleaseenjoy this conversation with
Steve Stacey.
All right, we are live, and Iam really excited to have author
Steve Stacey with me today,whom I met very recently in

(01:58):
person, and I bought your booksand I was so delighted by them
that I was like I have to haveyou on the show.
So, steve, can you just take aminute to introduce yourself to
the listeners of Bite Me?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Sure, my name is Steve Stacey and I am currently
in Stratford, ontario, at myhouse and in my office, and I am
the author of two books.
Oh, I have them right hereDeath by Cannabis and Death
Other Backwards.
Do you mind showing upbackwards when you look at them?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
No, they show up properly, I'll get them for you.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Okay, because they look backwards when I'm looking
at them Death by Cannabis andthen the sequel recently
launched, Death by Cannabis 3-Up, and Margaret might be the
first person who ever read themfrom cover to cover, both in a
row, because there was a almostlike a two-year gap between the
two, so most people read thefirst one, had to wait a year

(02:55):
and then read the second one.
So you're the first person thatI know, including me, who's
read them like straight right,that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
I'm glad to say that I can uh have that as an
achievement, because I did likeread them over.
It was like a long weekend,maybe a five-day weekend or
whatever, but uh, I justcouldn't put them down.
Once I got into them I was justlike they were so good thank
you so much.
Oh, that's amazing to hear um alot of some.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
You know there's one thing about getting the book and
then there's another thingabout reading it.
And so there's a lot of some.
You know there's one thingabout getting the book and then
there's another thing aboutreading it and so there's a lot
of people even really goodfriends of mine who I know.
I'm like yeah, I know you've gotthe book, but have you actually
read it?
And so I tell them, becausethey're like, oh, I just haven't
had the time or I haven't goneaway or something I tell them
hey, it's a quick, they're bothquick reads as, as you've

(03:41):
noticed, compared to big otherbooks, it's meant to be a page
turner, it's meant to not be toodense and to get through.
And then I tell them, if that'snot enough, put it in the
washroom and you'll read itthree times.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
That's some good advice, but I always read my
books that I buy because, well,I guess I'm a reader, so I make
time for it pretty much everyday.
But now, before we get into theprocess of writing the book and
more about Death by Cannabisand Death by Cannabis 3-Up, can
you just talk a little bit aboutyour own cannabis journey?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Sure, absolutely.
So.
I tried cannabis for the firsttime when I was very young, just
because it was sort of in myenvironment.
I grew up in the 70s and 80sand so, like I tried weed when I
was still single digits and Ihave kids now.
So I'm like holy fuck, I didn'teven know what I was doing.

(04:35):
It was like I had this crazypipe that I found and I thought
it was pipe tobacco.
I had no fucking clue what Iwas doing, me and my friend, and
I remember turning him andbeing like imagine if this was
Mary Jane just joking, and itwas so.
Anyway, that wasn't like adeliberate, that was just sort
of like an accident and I don'teven think we really inhaled.
But then fast forward, not thatmany more years.

(04:57):
I was still pretty young andgot introduced to it and yeah,
it's been part of my life eversince.
Recreationally,cultivation-wise is something
that really drew me to the wholesort of culture and experience
of the plant.
I lived in Toronto until I was15 and then my family moved out,

(05:20):
actually not too far fromyou're near Peterborough, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so you knowwhere the big apple is on the
401.
Yes, I do, that's where myfamily moved from toronto.
We moved to a farm near colburn, ontario.
Okay, so my farmer's market wasthe peterborough farmer's
market.
I don't know if oh cool upthrough keen and up along right.
Nice part of the world.

(05:41):
Uh, where are you?
Are you in peterborough oroutside of peter?

Speaker 1 (05:44):
I'm just outside of Peterborough.
Okay, cool, yeah.
Yeah, I like North Venice more,but yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Okay, so, anyway.
So when you move to the country, there's a lot of opportunities
to find little pockets to growin, and so I found a really,
really good one.
And, yeah, I think I grew myfirst plant when I was like 16
or 17.
I think I grew my first plantwhen I was like 16 or 17.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
And that was the start of a beautiful
relationship, because when yougrow weed, it's free.
It certainly does open up someopportunities, and so you're
still cultivating today.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I am.
Yeah, I have a grow rightunderneath my feet here in my
basement, yeah, yeah.
So I'm still cultivating,cultivating, and in fact, it
opened up a whole world to me ofgardening and growing.
I'm not much of a flowergardener, but I'm a food
gardener and I'm a weed gardener.
I like free stuff, so, and Ialso love getting my hands dirty

(06:39):
and stuff like that.
So, yeah, I actually moved onto, like, in my non-cannabis
life, I created a whole bunch ofcommunity gardens.
I was the director of anot-for-profit that was all
about growing your own food.
So, yeah, my passion forgardening.
If you get to know me wellenough in that gardening
community, I say well, it allstarted with growing weed.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
That's amazing, and I know a lot of cultivators that
love to grow weed, but also, youknow like you grow other things
, like whether it's vegetables.
I know a few that love to growflowers as well, and I mean, if
you can grow one, you can growthe other.
A hundred percent, yeah, forsure.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, it's fun to sort of see what.
What crosses over and like it'slike.
Oh, I can use my bloomfertilizer mix for my tomato
fruit.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Right, yeah, that's pretty awesome yeah thanks,
thanks, it's a great time ofyear too.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
My garden is just rocking out there right now
because it's been loving theheat, loving the rain, yeah, and
even like how it was sort ofcool in the spring.
That's just like the best for,as you probably know, for
gardening.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Do you do outdoor?
Do you do outdoor?
Do you do outdoor likecultivation?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
yeah, I do.
Yeah, I do, I have.
I have one plant in my backyard.
So there's a story in the firstbook about um.
The character's name was tomand he was so happy when
legalization happened because hewas going to make his, like his
opus, in his backyard he wasgoing to grow four of the best
plants of all time.
Finally, wasn't going to haveto worry about the cops, was
going to just be able to give itall that you know, not have to

(08:07):
drive out to his plants.
He was going to be able to seethem every day and it's a labor
of love and he was really intoit.
And then he got robbed by hisnext door neighbor.
Right, I wasn't going to do anyspoilers, but that's Spoilers.
I'll try to remind you.
My 12-year-old fucking you canswear on podcast my 12-year-old

(08:27):
neighbor totally robbed my cropin my backyard.
So now I've moved it, because itturns out that when you're
growing weed in the city, it'snot the cops that you have to
worry about, it's the fuckingneighbors.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, I'm pretty fortunate right now that I live
in a place where there are veryfew neighbors, so the odds of
that happening because I do havea little outdoor grow going on
right now.
So I'm really looking forwardto it and every year I'm like
this is going to be the yearit's going to be the best grow
ever.
And every year somethinghappens and that doesn't
necessarily work out, butconsidering that I make so many
edibles anyway, it's always awin.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
So it doesn't matter, right.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah.
I just enjoy doing it.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Outdoor and edibles are made for each other for sure
.
Yeah, A hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
So I mean, we could talk about growing all day, but
that's not really why we're here.
I want to talk about your booksNow.
Just to get us started, whatinspired you to write Death by
Cannabis and the re-up?

Speaker 2 (09:28):
So a number of things inspired it, but I think I
could probably trace it back.
I can definitely trace it backto when I worked at the LP.
So another part of my laterpart of my cannabis journey was
I was working at home writing.
So I've been a writer my wholelife.
I went to university forwriting.
I worked as a freelance writerfor like 15 years before I did

(09:49):
that project I was telling youabout the community gardens and
all that and then after that Iwas doing another writing
project, I was doing contentmarketing for basically blogging
, and this LP opened up fiveminutes away from my house.
At that time it was medical, itwas actually pre-recreational,
so they opened in like or sorry,they announced that they were

(10:10):
building and opening in like2015, 2016.
And then recreational, you know, got, became part of the mix,
and they always had this websitethat said coming soon, coming
soon, right, and I was alwayschecking it because I wanted to
know the updates and they had nosocial media, no, anything, and
so it was just like this wallof no communication from this LP

(10:32):
that I was really interested infinding out about, and I had
met the owner and the mastergrower while I was working at
that charity because I invitedhim to come see our greenhouse.
So we had already connected.
And so, long story short, Itold them I'd come and I'd work
on their website and I'd work ontheir social media because they

(10:53):
obviously needed it for halfthe time, if they let me, and
I'd also work in production theother half of the time.
So they said, great.
So basically, like most of thetime it was, my mornings were in
production and then myafternoons were at the desk
working on the, thecommunication stuff, um and so,
uh, what happens in production.

(11:14):
It's one of those be carefulwhat you wish for things, right?
You're like, oh, my god, I'mgonna work at a weed factory.
It's like, yes, but do rememberthe, the factory part.
You are now going to work in afactory, and so that along with
it came, with a great team, awhole bunch of people who I got
to meet, but also there's awhole bunch of like sitting

(11:34):
around the table trimming orinspecting bud or packaging bud
or doing whatever it is that youhappen to be doing cloning and
while you're doing that, noone's just standing there not
listening or not talking.
Everyone's engaged in something,and there was so much
storytelling that took placethat I was like, wow, it would

(11:55):
be fun to be, like, to create abook where, like you, went
around the table and peoplewould tell their stories from
the trim table or something likethat.
You know, and anyone who's beenin a crew trimming, whether
it's in a professional ornon-professional setting, knows
so many stories get told.
Now, the only difference iswhen you're in a
non-professional setting, youalso get to smoke weed while you
trim.
In the professional settingit's not quite like that.

(12:15):
But, um, everyone very, veryfew people in that setting were
not consumers.
Some were there.
There's stories are superinteresting too, anyway.
So as you're sitting therelistening to all these great,
sometimes hilarious, sometimesheartbreaking stories coming at
you all the time and you're awriter you're like, wow, this is

(12:36):
, this is something that's worthtelling.
And then you add to that thewhole taking a step back and
being like like wow, my countrylegalized cannabis before any
other than Uruguay, which I'venever I've never heard any
stories from Uruguay yet.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
I'd love to hear some stories from Uruguay.
Yeah, I haven't either.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, they just have that thing where they're like we
did it first, um, and so yeah.
So, knowing that, that therewas a pretty historic I'd say um
series of events happening thatI was actually right in the
middle of, I felt, like, youknow, my writer's instincts
kicked in and I was like I needto document this, I need to have

(13:14):
fun with it, I need to do itjustice in a way.
That's, you know that the formand the content are going to
work well together, right, aregoing to work well together,
right?
So I thought, well, you know,cannabis is having this moment
where it's like, you know, it'sgetting sort of like legitimized
but at the same time, there'sstill tons of stigma, there's
still the sort of like, you know, recreational pothead style

(13:39):
consumer.
And then you have these likemedical consumers, and CBD is a
thing now, and you know how isit working for the people who
were you know thing now and youknow what, how is it working for
the people who were, you know,criminals yesterday and you know
your dispensary today, right?
What's that like?
It seemed like a lot of reallycool tension and some really
cool, just sort of likehistorical stuff to document.

(14:02):
So that's why the first bookstarts on day one of
legalization and then it flashesforward about five years later
because it's like, okay, solegalization happened, but now
that we're five years in, what'sthat actually been like and
what are some of the storiesthat we've come across since
then?
So also just sorry, I'm talkinga lot, but I guess that's what
I'm here for.

(14:22):
Also, after that I became thebrand rep for the LP I was
working for.
So they're like you clearlylove this weed and love what we
do and love to tell storiesabout it.
So we're going to put you outinto the field, going from store
to store talking about the weed, showing people the samples,
doing pop-ups, all that stuff.
So for stuff.
So for several years that wasmy that I, they, they released

(14:45):
me from my trim table, you know,from my trim table labor, and
let me go out and share thestories of that lp, which there
were some great stories thatthat to tell and some great weed
that came out of that lp too.
So that's what inspired me touh, to tell to um, to write the
books that totally makes sensetoo, especially with the sequel.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
The way it's all from the perspective of, I guess, a
brand ambassador, I don't wantto say too much more, but yeah,
that's I think that's totallyyeah, yeah, and it's hard to
talk about these people withoutgiving away your stuff but it
totally makes sense because youlike, when you read the books,
you obviously have a veryintimate knowledge of how a
commercial grow-up works, or alegal grow-up works, and so my

(15:30):
original question was just likehow did you do the research
needed for the books in order todo that, to come across as
authentically as they did?
But you worked in it.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
I literally worked in it I also.
It was really nice to work withthe master grower there.
He is a very, very talented andgifted person who has
completely dedicated his life.
I like to say I thought I knewabout weed.
I thought, I knew about weeduntil I met him, until I started

(16:01):
working at this LP, and then Iwas like, oh my God, I know very
, very little about weed.
It turns out it was especiallythe cultivation side, and so
there was this entire world thatgot open to me, because the
great part about that was, yes,I got to work in the grow, but
then in the afternoons I got towork with him, where, so, as you
know, like there's very, verystrict marketing rules in

(16:23):
cannabis, right, and so you'reallowed to educate, but you're
not allowed to, you know, have aspiel to buy this.
So, and he was such an amazingexpert with such an incredible
mind that I was like this isgreat, what we're going to do.
We're going to blog, we'regoing to tell people about how
to grow their own weed.
We're going to tell peopleeverything that you know about
weed, we're going to put it outthere and we're going to show
people what an expert you are,so that when the time comes,

(16:45):
they're going to say, oh, I wantto buy weed grown by someone
who really cares and reallyknows what they're talking about
and they're going to think ofus, right.
So it's that sort of like Trojanhorse of marketing, sort of
couched within education, and inso doing, I learned so much.
I had to like you can't putstuff on a blog that's bullshit,
right?
You need to fact check and youneed to like.

(17:05):
You know there's so muchscience, to be honest, that I
looked up and learned about.
You know, terpenes.
I didn't even know what aterpene was before I started
working for the LP.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
And now it's like.
Now it's everything.
It's a big deal.
Yeah, it turns out.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
That was as much about the experience as the THC
was.
So, yeah, much about the, theexperience as the as the thc was
.
So, um, so yeah, and so yeahand like down many, many rabbit
holes.
Uh, I used to call them strainsand now I call them culture.
I was about to say strain namesof our names yeah these things
that uh and genetics and um,minor cannabinoids and all these

(17:40):
really really cool things thatI got to learn about in addition
to how to grow.
That's just that sort of likeholistic sense of everything.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
And then you start to add the human stories and yeah,
so and that definitely comesacross in the books as I read
them, like that authenticity andthe knowledge that you have,
that you've gained from workingin the LP as well.
But you also touch on asurprising number of topics and
themes in like a really subtleway, and you just mentioned them
briefly.
Some of the ones that come offthe top of my head are, like

(18:10):
you've mentioned briefly,polyamory and like, like the
LGBTQ community and like allthese different, like literary
nuances.
What were you hoping to achievejust by dropping in some of
these little, these littlethings, these little themes?

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, there's so many overlaps when it comes to
cannabis and social issues.
I guess you'd call them, andI'm I definitely deliberately
didn't want to shy away fromthose.
I wanted to sort of embrace itand be like, okay, how does that
?
And also based on my experience, like I don't I'm not a member
of a lot of the communities thatI have commented on, but I
definitely like have touchstonesin those communities or have

(18:47):
experiences where I came acrosspeople or have known people who
work in cannabis, who you knowshare those identities, and I
observed some really interestingthings or talk to them and you
know learned from them aboutsome interesting overlaps.
You know learned from themabout some interesting overlaps.
For instance, like there's the,the.

(19:07):
There's a store where twopeople who are, I guess, two
people who are trans technicallywould I just call them the
people who don't identify withany particular gender pronouns,
so they go with the like they,them thing, and so that is

(19:33):
actually based on an experienceI had where I was in.
So I would go and do pop upsanywhere.
If you invited me or if you'dhave me and you sold our product
, I'll show up, because itwasn't always about like people
were like, why do you go to apop up in a small town?
There's hardly any, hardly anypeople there and it's like, yeah
, but the bud tenders are thereand I want them to get
passionate about our product andI want to create a relationship
there and the more that theyknow about us and see me talking

(19:53):
to customers about it and hearme talking to customers about it
, the better they'll be atselling our product.
So I was, anywhere this onetown I went to, it was like this
the, the, the store was likethis little oasis of, like,
acceptance and coolness and pumplike a comfort zone for people
who had all sorts of, you know,identities that wouldn't have

(20:17):
maybe fit in very well, let'ssay, in a small Mennonite town.
So and I was like, and also thenlike, like also I at the time I
was hearing things, um, likeresearch coming through about
how, you know, the job market isincredibly difficult for people
with those identities and stufflike that, like I think that
there was something that cameout that said that people who

(20:38):
checked that, the non-binary boxon the census, the canadian
census I think the last censuswas the first time you could
check that box so they were ableto see like how that works
their their average income wasfifteen thousand dollars oh wow,
that is right.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
So that was shocking.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
I was like wait a second, those blood tenders,
they're rocking it.
Those blood tenders are lovinglife.
They, they are living in asociety where, most of the time,
they're being denied the chanceto work at all because of how?
Probably because ofstigmatization about how they
present.
And now they're in a cannabisstore kicking ass.
They were like the best budtenders, like they knew

(21:16):
everything.
And I remember thinking, wow,what would these people be doing
if they weren't here?
Like, what would that be likefor them?
And so that's why I broughtthat.
That's why I created thatchapter was because I'm like,
I'm going to celebrate that.
So, yeah, it's not just for thesake of doing it or for the
sake of like whatever, seeinghow people react, or anything
like that.
It was just a cool story thatkind of warmed my heart and I

(21:38):
wanted to include it.
I wanted to, I wanted toexplore it in a literary way.
To explore it in a literary waywhich, by the way, was also
something because I'm a grammarnerd and the whole like they,
them.
I'm like wait a second, that'splural.
How are we going to work that?
How would you write a storyabout people if that was their
pronoun?
That was actually one of thereasons.
I was like let's try this.
So turned out it wasn't aproblem at all.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, well, you do it in such a smart way that I just
have to commend you for that,because it stood out to me and
like it's done in such anaccepting way too.
So you're normalizing thesethings and they're just little
tidbits too right, like it's not, like it's rife with all this
um, all these touchstones, asyou mentioned, but it's just
done in such a lovely way thatit stood out to me.
So, thanks, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, yeah there's some of them that are more than
others, like obviously, like um,like native dispensaries, like
that's a that's a big cannabisissue.
But it's a it's it's thebiggest issue in canada.
Land back is the biggest issueto me in canada, and so that was
a big overlap and that was moreof a that was like a that was
more an overtly political sortof right in that way but

(22:40):
otherwise I do try and just sortof like dip my toe into the
culture, into the issues, tryand say, like what happens when
we don't put a magnifying glassover this and fetishize it?
What if we treat it like it'snormal?
What if we, you know, justaccept and explore and don't be

(23:01):
afraid?

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah well, it's so well done.
And just to also go back to thefact that you're doing pop-ups
in small towns, as someone whoused to work in a dispensary in
you know, peterborough is not abig city or anything, but
sometimes trying to get brandreps to come out of Toronto to
like visit our store was maybe alittle difficult, like pulling
teeth a little bit.
So I can only imagine that notonly the bud tenders would

(23:29):
appreciate you doing a pop-up intheir small town, but a lot of
the customers too, because theyoften don't get a chance to
experience, you know,interacting with brand reps
directly because they're soreluctant to like leave the big
city with all the people well,and there's so much travel
involved as a brand rep thatyeah, really uh, and like 600,
1600 stores in ontario rightyeah, and so crazy yeah the
bigger companies have the budgetto.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
You know, have a northern territory rep and a
eastern, western, whatever, andI was just the rep for basically
all of canada, for both of thebrands that I was being the
brand ambassador for um, and soyou get spread pretty thin.
It's funny because I know thestore that you worked for in
Peterborough because it had agreat reputation as the best
store among that chain and I wasjust about to.
We had a partnership with thatchain.

(24:10):
I was just about to go outthere and do one right when my
time ended.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, we might have met sooner, who knows?
Yeah, but we just met byhappenstance in a whole other
way, which was actually quitelovely too.
But is there anything that youare hoping that readers take
away from your books?

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I really hope that, that they enjoyed the stories as
stories, as fun stories, to tohopefully have a bit of a voice,
especially like, say, someonelike you who happens to be my
perfect reader because you lovecannabis, you've been part of
the industry and you likereading.

(24:53):
There's a lot of people who arelike, tell me when it comes out
on Netflix or tell me when it'san audio book, and that's cool
because that just makes me tryand get those to work too.
But what I hoped was for tohave really fun and entertaining
stories weaved into theexperience of hearing stories

(25:15):
about what you have gone throughor that I want people in the
cannabis industry to thinksomewhere along the line, to
have some sort of like, wow,like that.
I totally relate to that.
Right, like I think someone umoh, it was one of the comments
on amazon um said I read a lotof books, and I've read a lot of

(25:38):
books and usually I do it as anescape from my reality, and
this is actually the first bookI've ever read that is about my
reality oh cool that's just thebest comment.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
I thought that was so cool, yeah yeah, now has, and I
wouldn't be surprised if ithadn't.
But did your perspective oncannabis evolve at all during
the writing process?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
It did.
I don't know if it was becauseof the writing process, because
so much happened as part of myjob and in the industry over
that time, so I started writingin.
What was it?
I guess I was going to sayDecember 2022, but really it was
.
I'm going to put the like,because you sort of start with
notes and stuff like that, butwhen it's like, okay, we're

(26:20):
starting with this book, I'd sayit was very early in 2023, at
which time I was working for aindependent LP.
That was, you know, on the righttrajectory.
You know, sales were going up,our product was getting
attention, we were known for ourgrowing format, which was super
cool and innovative, and sothat was where I was when I was,

(26:43):
when I wrote the first book.
And then, by the time thesecond book came along, that
company had been sold to ashareholder owned company with a
board and CEOs and shit likethat, and suddenly everything
changed.
It was like, all of a sudden,it was way more about the brand,
which, as a marketing personthat was cool I was, I was up

(27:09):
for that, and but more aboutlike, about the deals with the
big chains and stuff like that,and way less about the product.
Like I was finding myself inpop-ups with these strains that
had been given names that werelike related to snoop dogs.
There was a little bit of asnoop relationship there and I
was like, okay, that's great,we're going to call it this, but
what is the actual weed?
And they couldn't tell me.

(27:30):
Right, I'm like you have me outin a pop-up showing people weed
, telling them it's like lowrider weed or whatever.
That's not what it was called,but whatever Some snoopalicious
name, and you're not even goingto tell me what the genetics are
.
So, like what do you want me totalk to people about?
So they're like, oh well, youcan talk to them about whatever
the brand.
Yeah, that was quitedisappointing for me and that

(27:53):
was only the beginning, becausenot naming the weed was like the
best of the mistakes that thatcompany made.
That company doesn't existanymore.
It's bankrupt now, and so itwas funny because I was writing
about that happening in the book, but it wasn't really.
I was already planning on doingthat and I wasn't planning on
my company taking the nosedivethat it did, because that

(28:16):
corporation that bought us thenwent bankrupt along with all of
us.
And then the lp I worked for gotsold and I was I was still a an
employee of the bankruptedcompany.
So, anyway, it was a mess andso, yes, my view on we did
change over that period verymuch, and it was so funny
because I was writing things inthe second book that eventually,

(28:36):
like happened.
I was like okay.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, I guess it's interesting that you mentioned
about how they weren't reallysure what the genetics were of
the way that you're trying topromote at a pop up, because it
just it just shows how much moresavvy a lot of the customers
are that they're trying to sellto, like especially it's been,
you know, people who've been inthe cannabis industry or not
industry, but sorry, like justconsuming cannabis for a long

(29:01):
time and they're familiar withthese things.
They want to know what it isthat they're smoking.
And maybe there's a lot ofcannabis curious people who are,
who are new to it, that maybearen't as familiar with the
strain name, cultivar names.
But yeah, it's just interestingthat a lot of these big
corporate companies maybe don'ttotally understand the cannabis

(29:22):
consumer as well as they thinkthey do.
And that's probably also becausethey don't understand it nearly
as well either.
Like the suits versus, you knowsomebody who's been steeped in
the cannabis world for a longtime.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Exactly, exactly.
I loved the educationalapproach to marketing.
I thought it was fantastic,it's great, it was, it was
beautiful.
It was like we were still we'vebeen so in the dark about the
information about this productthat we love, or this, this
plant that we love, and now wecan talk about it and we can go
down those rabbit holes and somany people did, and it was so

(29:56):
fun.
And then then all of a sudden,it's like oh, forget all that,
we're going to.
You know, we're going to get acelebrity on board and that's
what we eat.
And sometimes people walked intomy pop-ups and they're like, oh
my God, this, this brand, isamazing.
I'm going to buy every and askwhat it is, just because they
want the t-shirt or whatever.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, and some people do buy that way, but a
lot of the savvy consumers arenot going to be satisfied with
just the picture of a famousperson on the package A hundred
percent, a hundred percent.
Which is interesting Cause Ididn't think that that was
really like a very I didn'tthink they like.
As far as health Canada goes,it was very easy to actually do
brand partnerships like thatwell, that was the thing.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
So part of that, uh, transition to the shareholder
owned company also meant that awhole bunch of our products were
going for export so they signedthe celebrity for to be like
they were going to open upstores that had you know that
person's name on the top inisrael or whatever, um, or
australia.
A lot of our stuff went toaustralia, where they don't have

(30:56):
those rules, so but it was verystrange because it's like, well
, we do have those rules, so Idon't know how you want to deal
with this, but it's kind of likea ball around your neck because
you sort of like want to talkabout it but you can't.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
And so, yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was awkward
and it didn't work.
And it's like you end up paying10 of your of your profits, I
guess, or whatever, or youranyway, of your sales to this
person and you can't even, youcan't even put them on the
package.
Right, you have to do this like, pardon the pun, but this
little dog whistle thing whereyou're like, um, you know, like

(31:33):
if you know, you're gonna knowthat there's a relationship here
, but if you don't, I'm notallowed to tell you so it's a if
you know, you know, kind ofthing which can work if the
person is famous enough, Isuppose.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
But it's a gamble that obviously didn't pay off
for this particular company.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
So with their marketing team and stuff like
that and they just didn't get it.
Like they did not get thecanadian side, like whatever,
because there's all theseseparate rules up here and
because there's a differentculture up here.
So you know, I tell them likestrain names are important and
they say fuck you.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Right, yeah, well, that's why they don't exist
anymore.
And you're still here rockingit.
So now the books that you'vewritten.
You're a self-published author.
What were some of the biggestlessons that you've learned
about getting your work out intothe world?

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yes, that's the hardest part.
That's the hardest part, forsure.
So, yeah, you can write booksand people can even like them,
but getting them out into theworld is really challenging.
Being signed by a publishergives you is that network and
that PR machine and, you know,into regular bookstores.

(32:41):
So I'm still working on it.
I've been saying this for years,but what my goal is is to get
it.
I'd rather have my book incannabis stores than bookstores.
So at that point I was like,well, publishers don't really
have those relationships really.
So, and I have goodrelationships in stores, so I
have no excuse for my book notto be out in stores.
But another thing when you selfpublish, it's a tough sell

(33:03):
because people, anyone, can selfpublish.
I could have written a book thatwas complete gobbledygook, self
published and be like I havethis awesome book, and so when a
publisher publishes it, they'relike no, no, we've had editors
look this over and we're sayingthat this is a book that the,
that the public wants, right.
So there's that sort of like alittle bit of credibility that

(33:25):
comes with it.
So at this point I'm stillworking on partnerships where,
like I'd love, there's a coupleof chains that I have
relationships with, still that Iwould like to.
I'd like for them to put mybook on their shelves or two
books, I guess, on their shelves.
So you know, this is like theseconversations that we're having
now really helped me, because Ican be like no, look, this

(33:45):
podcaster wrote read both booksin a row and love them, I think.
And so, um, no, I did, I reallydid, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
You wouldn't be here if I didn't like them.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
So and so anyway.
So that's, that's a word ofendorsement from someone who's,
you know, really respected inthe industry.
So, as that happens more andmore, I think that it'll be
eventually easier for me to toget the book out there.
But really there's the.
The next sort of brass ring forme is to find stores that would

(34:15):
be willing to put my books ontheir shelves right, like it,
like independent bookstores.
You're thinking uh, no cannabisor cannabis stores specifically
.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Okay, I think it's a great spot to have those books
too, because obviously peoplewho are going into those stores
are interested in weed.
You would think so yeah, that's, that's a great idea, but I can
imagine that it's difficult tobe a one-man marketing team.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
It is, it is, yeah, it is.
And to be writing along the way.
So, as I was writing the sequel, I was like, look, just don't
worry about that, just focus onthe sequel, don't worry about
the marketing.
And now we're past that point.
Now the sequel is done.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
So now we're working on the screenplays and now we're
past that point.
Now the sequel is done.
Yeah, now I'm working on thescreenplays, now the fun stuff
comes.
Yeah, yeah, I'll ask you aboutthat in a minute.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
But before we get into that, can you just walk us
through your creative process?
Yeah, thanks, that's a goodquestion.
So I mentioned that I've beenwriting my whole life and
there's different ways ofapproaching that, and so a lot
of the times I was just sort oflike experimenting with things.
And you know, sitting down atnight and writing something,
starting something, maybe,leaving it, coming back to it,

(35:27):
um, like I probably have afolder on my computer that has a
whole graveyard of ideas thatare great but never got followed
through on um.
And so this time I'm like no,if we're doing this, we're doing
this.
There's not going to be likeyou know little, let's try a
chapter over here and try.
I'm like if we're doing this.
And so I was like well, what'sthat?
Like?

(35:47):
I was like it's like when a,when a band or a performer or a
musician goes into a studio andthey've rented that studio and
they're paying money to be inthat studio.
So that's not the time for,like experimentation and for
trying things out.
That's the time for gettingthings down on tape and then
editing later, right, so I wouldcall it booking the studio.

(36:09):
So I'd be like, yeah, I'mbooking the studio.
I'd say to my family.
I'm like, hey guys, book in thestudio tonight, don't?
You know, don't bother me, I'mgoing to be in there and so, and
I've created this really coolworkspace for myself here, and
so, yeah, I called it bookingthe studio, and then it would be
each and then each story,because both of the books are
sort of like populated by six orseven stories that are each

(36:30):
chapter.
I called those the tracks, andso I thought of it as like a
concept album, where I was likegoing into the studio dropping
tracks that stand alone on theirown Cause, you know, if you
listen to, I guess people don'tlisten to CDs anymore but if you
put it on, Spotify playlist.
You can pick a song and you canlisten to that song on its own.
But back in the day, kids, weused to have these things called

(36:53):
albums, and there were therewas things called concept albums
, where, yes, they had amazingindividual songs, but together
those songs created like thisbigger meaning or this bigger
story.
And so I thought of it as aconcept album, where I had all
these tracks that were verydifferent, different genres,
different approaches to writing,in the same way that someone

(37:13):
who is really good at musiccould put down an album and have
, like, different genres ofmusic in the same album right
and so, but together they mightcreate something that as a whole
, maybe, was even bigger thanthe sum of its parts.
So, yeah, I approached it as if, like you, if you're going in
here, you're, you're recordingthis track and you're getting it
done so, so that was my way tobe productive and to keep

(37:36):
everything moving forward.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
I like the idea, too, that you were talking about
like just that verbal kind ofcue that now you're like you
were down to work.
Like that was sort of yourverbal cue.
I'm booking this studio, whichmeans I am.
This is undisturbed time.
And did you have like a goalfor yourself, like a certain
number of words you wanted towrite per per evening, or a?
Time that you sell specificamount of time.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
No, that's my new approach, though I've sort of
just mentioned briefly that I'mworking on screenwriting now,
which is a.
It's a very differentexperience for me and I'm
learning a lot about thedifference between writing for
the screen and writing for thepage.
Um and one of the umscreenwriters who I was watching

(38:21):
giving advice said that shejust she makes sure that she
gets four to five pages done aday.
Right, this is a reallysuccessful screenwriter.
I was like four or five pagesdone a day, that's nothing.
Because screenwriting too, likeif you're talking four or five
pages of like novel text, youknow you're getting into like

(38:41):
you know over a thousand words,which is nothing to shake a
stick at If you're sitting downto write, I would, I would try
myself to get like a little bitmore than that If I'm, if I'm,
putting in a session.
But then I was like oh man,wait, if you do four to five
pages of a screenplay per day,then 10 days later you have 50
pages done in.
A screenplay is only about 150pages.
So you're talking about likenot that I want to rush things,

(39:05):
but like if you do stick to thatschedule, that little drop in
the ocean, drop in the bucketturns into a screenplay really
quickly and so so yeah, that wassorry, I forget what the
question was.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
I think it was just part of the creative process and
just about oh, I guess I wasasking I forgot for a second.
To that happens, a couple ofstoners get together but the
creative process around likewell, how many time?
Or words you might dedicate toa session, because I have heard
popular authors as well say theyaim for like a minimum of a
thousand words a day, and maybethe screenwriter that you're

(39:43):
referring to four to five pagesa day.
That was sort of like a minimumyeah and because I'm assuming,
some days it's really easy toget to those four or five pages
or those thousand words and, andI bet, other days it feels like
it's impossible.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely I was.
I worked.
It's interesting.
I'm definitely not comparingmyself to Nobel prize winning
author Alice Monroe.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Right.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
But I thought it was fascinating.
She died recently and all thisother stuff has come up.
Besides all that, she's anamazing writer.
She's actually from where I amright now.
She's from this neck of thewoods, southwestern.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Ontario.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
And again she won the Nobel Prize for Literature Like
that's freaking huge for shortstories.
And it turns out that when youfound out about her and her life
, the reason she wrote shortstories was because she was like
a really busy working mom andso she could only write at night
, which is when I write.
I wrote after my family went tobed, so my writing time usually

(40:44):
starts at 9 or 9.30 and takesme to about 2 am, and so she
wrote stories.
Because short stories, becauseshe didn't have time to sit all
day and write really bignarratives, and so because her
work structure was segmentedlike that, the work she produced
was segmented like that, whichI thought was super cool when I

(41:06):
found that out Because, as youknow, like my, my book is a book
, but it's also a whole bunch ofstories too breaking them into
those digestible bits made iteasier for me to be, you know,
driving forward, because, as I'mworking on executing those
stories at night, I can also betaking notes all day.

(41:28):
When you're driving around allday as a brand rep, you take a
lot of oh sorry, I guess I doknow how to.
I would take notes on my watchwhile I was driving, right, and
so you get a lot of time to justthink.
You know, I'd spend a lot of mytime driving around from place
to place, without even havingthe radio on or a podcast or
anything, just thinking aboutwhat I was going to write about

(41:48):
that night or thinking aboutwhatever you know stories that
come into your head, and so thatwas a real meditative time for
me, to be able to sort of spendduring the day thinking about
things and reflecting on thingsand then, like I said, but when
you're in the studio you'redropping tracks.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Right, yeah, because that's why you're there.
Yeah, I love that.
Now, is there any part of thewriting process that brought you
the most joy?

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Oh yeah.
So another sort of trick I havein my tool belt is augmented
reality, which is something Istarted doing pre-covid and then
, during covid, I had a goodchance to figure out how all
that worked.
Um, so augmented reality iswhen you take one piece of media

(42:31):
.
The way I use it is where youtake one piece of sort of fixed
media and turn it into somethingdynamic.
So in the case of my book, Iwas able to take pictures.
Well, in the case of the firstbook, it's like the department,

(42:52):
I guess, the signs for eachdepartment, and then you go to a
QR code which in the first book, is at the beginning, and if
you view that page I just showedyou that said nursery through
your phone, after opening thatQR code, it turns it into a
video, as I hope you experience.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Oh yeah, I've watched all the augmented reality
pieces in both books they were.
That was such a fun little likeI shouldn't say little.
I'm sure that was a lot of workto put together too, but that
was a fun addition to both ofthose books.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Well, it was super cool Cause it meant I could like
add a little short film,basically.
Yeah, each chapter, and withthe first one I had fun sort of
to spoofing the whole JustinTrudeau legalization thing by
having Justin Trudeau as thezigzag man, as my little
character, um and uh.
In the second one I went all inon what we just talked about,

(43:43):
that whole celebrity thing, andmade it like this hidden easter
egg where all these celebritiescame out and made a little ditty
about um, about the, the brand.
So yeah, that was really funyeah so when people even tell me
that it worked for them, likeyou just did, I'm like awesome,
because people aren't used tobringing their phones to to the
to the table when they'rereading a novel you know some

(44:04):
people are like, ew, I don'twant to do that.
I'm like, please, just makesure, just try it, it'll work
for you.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
yeah, but it was just like, like certain sections of
the book, you didn't have tohave your phone beside you the
whole time.
And I mean, let's be honest, inthis cell phone culture, we all
have our phones beside us allthe time anyway, so you, know to
pick it up while you're readinga book isn't that big of a
stretch, but it was a reallynice addition.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Thanks and yeah, so that what just happened there
that was that makes it.
That was the fun part wasseeing people's reactions and
people saying, oh my God, thisis the crazy thing, like.
I've been working on augmentedreality since like 2018.
And I'm so surprised it's notmore of a thing.
I'm delighted because it meansthat I have expertise in things
that other people don't knowabout, but I'm telling you,

(44:47):
margaret, give it.
I've been saying this for yearssooner or later, people are
going to be wearing glasses thatlook just like the glasses that
you're wearing now and they'regoing to be able to see that
augmented reality content justthrough their glasses, because
it's an overlay, it's not peopleoften get it confused with
virtual reality, which is whereyou're like, oh, I can you know?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
yeah, like you're immersed all the world, yeah
augmented reality.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
It's just an overlay over what's already there, and
so it's ready, and there's acouple of really exciting
projects and inventions that arecoming through for those
glasses.
Um, that is going to make it soyou can just read the book with
your glasses and, all of asudden, something's going to pop
up at you and it's going to belike oh my god, that next page
that I turned to is a video or a3d object or an animation,

(45:32):
whatever.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, that's kind of cool.
I'll have to watch for that,because I do follow some of that
stuff a little bit.
I find it interesting, but ifthat was one of the things that
brought you joy, when you'rewriting the book, there's always
a flip side.
So what challenged you the mostduring the process of writing
your books and how did you pushthrough?
Because I have heard from manyauthors that writing a book is

(45:55):
one of the hardest things youever do in your entire life.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
So yeah, and rewarding for sure, yeah.
So the second book, that thesequel.
When I wrote the first book, Iwasn't like okay, and then in
the sequel that I'm going to,I'm going to, I'm going to like
set this up for the sequel,going to like set this up for

(46:20):
the sequel, you know, even theeven like, there's one character
whose dying words suggest thatthere's more action to come, but
that wasn't the plan, right?

Speaker 1 (46:25):
yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:25):
you know, and then it was like oh whoa, those dying
words are ominous, we can takethat and run with it in the
second book.
And so the second book takesthat and really goes with it.
But, um, the second book wasnever a given, or ever even like
.
I imagine someone like the guywell, no, sorry, that's not true
I was gonna say the guy whowrote um game of thrones, you

(46:46):
know, he was like writing withthe idea that like I'm gonna
start way over here and thentake it way over here.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
But I don't think he did that either, because he
hasn't even finished his lastbook yet I know, and that's a
series of books I've actuallynever read because I heard from
too many people that it's notlike I've watched the series.
It's great, but the books aremaybe not as easily put together
.
I mean, it's a huge story, sonot surprising, but yeah right.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
So yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
So that author is probably the same where they're
like oh, let's just write andtell stories and then maybe we
can make connections later yeahbut, sometimes those connections
didn't happen from people thatI know that read the books
they'd be like you know, finishthis storyline or like this
character, just kind of he stopstalking about them or you know
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
So I was like maybe I'll skip this series, but yeah,
it's a lot to go into yeah,yeah, yeah um, yeah so.
So, um, I would say taking onthe second project was, was, um
was probably the toughestdecision, but it wasn't that
tough.
I, I was, you know, afteryou've, after you've finished

(47:54):
working on something for likeover a year or longer really,
because there was a lot ofstorytelling that sort of led up
to that that I synthesized intothat, you're like, oh man, I'm
so glad it's over, I can't waitto move on to the next thing.
But then it's like, well, thenext thing is going to be a
connected thing.
So, anyways, that was, I guess,a hurdle that I overcame.

(48:17):
I wouldn't call it that.
It wasn't that difficult,though I'm pretty passionate
about this one.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
So right, yeah, well, that's fair Now, do you have
any favorite books or like anyall time favorite authors that
you like to recommend to people?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yes, definitely.
I don't know if I recommendthem to people, but I definitely
have my authors that I'mpassionate with.
I'm a diehard, lifelong IrvinWelsh fan, so the writer of
Trainspotting.
But he's got a whole bunch ofother stuff that he's written
since Trainspotting and myfavorite stuff that he wrote was
his short fiction that hepublished around the time of

(48:55):
Trainspotting.
So he's that he wrote was hisshort fiction that he published
around the time of Trainspotting.
So he's got a collection ofshort stories called Ecstasy and
another collection of shortstories called the Acid House
and I loved those.
Those continue to be some of myfavorite things.
So, yeah, a lot of Irvin Welsh.
And then there's another Irishauthor that I've become familiar

(49:17):
with in like the past, maybelike five years, who I love.
His name is Kevin Barry.
He wrote a great book calledBeetlebone.
That was from the perspectiveof John Lennon, who knew he
bought like a tiny island whenhe was at the height of his like
wealth and popularity in likeGalway Bay or somewhere in
Ireland.
He bought this little islandand so it's this like fictional

(49:40):
story of him going to see thatisland and it's totally awesome,
um, and he's and he's writtensome other incredible books as
well.
Um, he's his most recent book,the Heart in Winter.
If you ask me about a book thatI wish I read, sorry, that I
wish I wrote.
Heart sorry that I wish I wrote.
Heart in Winter is a perfectbook.
It's amazing.
It has nothing to do with read,but he's an incredible writer.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
We can't read about weed all the time you have to
read about weed.
And I have to admit thatquestion was maybe a little
selfish, because I lovediscovering new authors from
people who love to read, so thatwas probably more for me than
anybody else, but thank you forindulging me.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Kevin Berry check it out, because I've never met
anyone else.
Who knows about him other thanmy Irish friend?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (50:24):
And I also think that the book of short stories is
often overlooked as well as aliterary format.
I do enjoy reading shortstories, so I will definitely
check out Irving Welsh too.
Like I've, I do enjoy readingshort stories, so I will
definitely check out IrvingWelsh too.
So, thank you for that.
Now, what about cannabis books?
If you could recommend acannabis book to a cannabis
lover or the can of curious,because they may or may not be

(50:46):
the same and besides your own,what would it be?

Speaker 2 (50:50):
See, that's funny that you just made the
distinction between cannabisbooks and non-cannabis books,
because what I would recommendwouldn't be considered.
Like, I don't think the wordcannabis is ever mentioned in
his works, but it's a collectionof short stories.
As you can tell, I'm big on theshort stories I always have
been and so the master of theshort story is Jorge Luis Borges

(51:10):
, from Argentina.
Okay, his books are incredible.
They are amazing to read stone.
He's like a magic realist, andso his books are incredible.
They are amazing to read stone.
He's like a magic realist, andso his books are magic.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
his books are incredible and what was that
name again?

Speaker 2 (51:24):
uh, jorge j-o-r-g-e, luis l-u-i-s borges b-o-r-g-S.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Perfect, I will check that out too.
I think some people manage withJorge because of Jorge
Cervantes as well.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
For sure.
Yeah, he'd be like that.
Gabriel Garcia Marquez,cervantes, like that whole sort
of just like.
I don't know what it is aboutthose authors, but they're able
to.
Well, I mean Don Quixote's,about that, about having a, a
fictional life that becomes yourlife, and it's so much more
interesting than the real world.
Um, yeah, but borges isincredible.

(52:03):
He, he's all about like.
He's very meta.
He's all about like you know,like, and this is pothead stuff.
This is the kind of stuff thatyou talk about when you're
stoned.
It's like oh, there's one bookabout this, this map of the
world that's to scale okay rightthink about yeah, yeah what

(52:24):
library is that going to be in?
it's right covers the wholeworld.
Yeah, that is.
All these little ideas likethat that are like yeah yeah,
that's great.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
So I'll check that out, because I can also add
these into the show notes ofthis episode when it comes out
as well, so anybody listeningwho's interested in checking out
these authors will be able tofind them easily.
Now back to your own books,have you?
You've probably received a lotof feedback from your books so
far.
Has there been any that havesurprised you, and what kind of
feedback have you gotten?

Speaker 2 (52:56):
none that have surprised me.
No, I would say the surpriseswould be when I don't hear back
from people or when I'm not sureif they've even read the book.
Those have surprised mesometimes, but I don't again.
I reading my book is avoluntary experience, so if if
someone has bought my book ordoesn't want to buy my book, or

(53:16):
hasn't read it or has read it,I'm always delighted that
someone has even read it.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Right.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
And I haven't had I can't think of any negative
feedback that I've had, whichbut then when you're a writer,
well, at least with me, I'm like, well, that's because they're
just being polite and they don'twant to tell me, yeah.
But, that's why every timesomeone like you says that you
really liked it genuinely andthat it was good, it's like oh
my God, they liked it, theyreally liked it.
So because I'm always worriedthat there's these like haters

(53:44):
in the background.
But I don't think there is.
I think most of the people whopicked up my book did enjoy it.
So so you know, there hasn'tbeen anything.
The surprises for me are whenpeople say I read it and I loved
it.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
That's when it's like , oh my god, that's amazing,
right.
So now that you have, you'vehad these two books out for a
little bit.
What's next for you creatively?
Yeah, I know you've touched alittle bit on the screenplay, so
feel free to talk more aboutthat, but yeah, so, um, I have
connected with some I guessyou'd call them producer
director people.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
They they have a production company.
They signed an option on thebooks so that they have the
right to sort of like work withme to create a sorry that sounds
like I got paid, but I didn'tTo work with me on converting or
transforming these stories intosomething that's going to work
on the screen.
Whether that is a, this alsogoes back to my, my influences.

(54:43):
I love the White Lotus.
That's my like guilty pleasure.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, that is a great series.
I love it too, it's so good,it's so good.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
And so when I started in January 2023, it's no
coincidence that the second Ithink it was the second season
of the White Lotus ended inDecember 2022, it's no
coincidence that the second Ithink it was the second season
of the white Lotus ended inDecember 2022.
Cause I was like that's it.
That's how I'm going to do this.
I'm going to use a genre, I'mgoing to use a murder mystery
and that's how I'm going to tellall these stories about, you

(55:12):
know, cannabis and all the otherstories I have, right, and I'm
going to have it so that there'sall these characters and they
all have their stories and thattogether there can be this
overriding murder mystery thatbrings them all together.
And so that was a big influenceon me, and so, in a way, it
lends to the suitability forturning what I've done into a

(55:36):
series, right, so if there's sixstories in a book, funnily
enough that could be a series,like an eight, an eight episode
series.
So it might go that way, or Imight just go like there's also
pragmatism and what can actuallyget made.
My books are very as you know, Idon't even have a publisher
they're very indie, they're verylow budget.
They're very just, like youknow, sort of underground and

(55:59):
grassroots, and so there's noreason why a film couldn't be
made that taking the sameapproach.
So, and also in the books morein the first book than the
second book but I really doexplore genres of storytelling.
Like you know, one of them's apodcast and one of them's a film
pitch and one of them's a play,and there's all these different
genres and so now I'm like,okay, well, let's play with

(56:23):
genres.
Now, what does this look likewhen it becomes an indie film
that's actually like producibleon a tight budget but still gets
the the, the main storiesacross?
So that turns out that there'sa lot more you have to show and
not tell when you're doing, whenyou're writing for the screen.
Right, my new mentors have beencoaching me through that and it

(56:44):
really changes everything.
It really does.
It's yeah, it's a wholedifferent medium.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
So, yeah, that's super exciting though, yeah
thanks, thanks.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
It's.
It really brought to home how,how lucky, lucky we are as
fiction writers, that, like, ifyou're a fiction writer you can
be like, and then they go tolike, then they have a DMT trip
and they're going to anotherdimension, another space or
whatever, but when you're makinga movie about that, it's anyway

(57:14):
, as I say, you're lucky whenyou're a film, sorry when you're
a writer, because it's justabout your imagination and the
reader that the the stories go.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
It would be really cool to see it on the big screen

(57:44):
too, but of course I'drecommend anybody to read the
books first, because the booksare always better.
Yeah, thanks, margaret.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Yeah, and it's going to change, like there's there's
going to be it's already turninginto like more focused on like
the visible environment in thelp because, like I want to have
some eye popping visuals aroundlike, yes, cannabis is legal,
but look what has been going onwhen people have had unlimited
budgets and like genetics havebeen able to like scientifically

(58:11):
, be approached scientifically,and stuff like that.
So it's going to focus a lot onvisually witnessing stuff like
that and letting other peoplewho haven't been behind the
curtain of the LP to sort oflike open it up and be like, wow
, look what's going on here.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
You know, it would be really interesting too and I
won't spoil it for people whohaven't read the book yet but to
see the grow concept on the bigscreen.
That would be… we can talkabout that Tent City, tent City,
yeah, yeah.
Screen that would be.
We can talk about that tentcity, yeah, yeah, I mean really
cool to see tent city on the bigscreen yeah, yeah, I think so
too.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I think so too it's going to be.
Uh, yeah, it's going to be.
I'm thinking about that and theways to do it that don't
involve building it.
Yeah, yeah, whatever buildingpart of it, and anyways, again,
I get way ahead of myself when Istart thinking about the
pragmatics of producing film,but apparently my mentors say
it's an important thing to keepin mind, because you know if you

(59:05):
write a big budget epic that islike on a shoestring budget
you're going to have problems.
So anyways think of creativeways to tell that story, which
could maybe involve animation orwho knows?

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Yeah, technology these days.
It's certainly changed a lot.
I know watching movies from myyouth, it's shocking how much
things have changed.
So the possibilities areendless.
But, steve, what would surprisepeople about you?

Speaker 2 (59:36):
I think these days, when I tell people that I'm not
working in the cannabis industryanymore, that surprises them,
because I was so all in and sopassionate for whatever my stint
was there six or seven years,so I stopped working for, I
guess, the regulated cannabisindustry back when that company
went bankrupt, which was innovember, and so, yeah, I've

(59:59):
been working on things that areactually not in the cannabis
industry other than my writing.
So I want to be, I've decidedthat probably my best role I
mean, I'm always open toeverything and I need to feed my
family, so work is good, butI've decided that, like,
probably my best role is to bein the culture where I belong.
You know, maybe holding up alight occasionally to the

(01:00:22):
industry to to show people wheremaybe we could do better, um,
but also just telling thosestories and being sort of like
the, the, the person who's thereto tell, to tell some of the
stories from the industry, um,so, yeah, I think people would
be surprised that I'm notactually in the industry anymore
because I was up to my ears forso long.

(01:00:43):
Other things?
Yeah, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Yeah, okay, I mean it is surprising you're not in the
cannabis industry because youspeak, so you speak so
knowledgeably about it, butobviously you learned a ton
while you're in it and you'restill immersed in cannabis
culture too.
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
And I mean I could probably go back to the grow and
try and get back into that likeI did before, but that's, I
feel like that.
That phase of my life haspassed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Yeah, those people are important and I give props
to the people working in thegrow.
That's not easy work, it's.
It's farm work, it's factorywork.
It's a lot of the things thatyou know.
When you're a potter you'relike oh my God, I'm going to go
work in a weed factory.
You know that.
You're like, you know that.
You know the gloss can comeaway a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
So, or lose its luster, I guess, is the word,
and so I do give props to peoplewho are working in weed,
because they don't even get tosmoke weed while they work.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
I know, yeah, the world has changed quite a bit.
Now, before we wrap up, steve,because I want to be mindful of
your time, where can people findyou and your books?

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
So find me on Instagram.
That's probably the best place.
You can always message me onInstagram.
So it's.
I was about to tell you my oldLP handle.
It's not that it was at sign.
Death by canna, but no bis,just death by canna.
C-a-n-n-a.

(01:02:09):
And yeah, I'm having some funthere with some augmented
reality tricks that I still have.
I've decided to, I've decidedto really like emphasize the
augmented reality part ofeverything I do, because I think
people don't.
Well, a, not no one else seemsto be doing it and B, I love it.
And C, it's a part of my bookthat is very unique to my books,
and so I think it's time for meto just sort of like, you know,

(01:02:32):
sort of toot that horn a littlebit and have fun with it on
social media, because you canhave a lot of fun with it on
social media.
So that's that.
Uh, then you can also check outmy website.
It's woefully.
I mean, what's the saying thatthe cobbler's son has no shoes?
I'm the guy who's like tellinggreen seal that they needed to
keep their website up to date,and meanwhile I haven't even

(01:02:52):
posted about the second book onmy website yet.
So right you got to get intothat, but anyway, there is some
information on my website.
As far as the books themselves,as I mentioned, I really,
really want to get them intostores, so if anyone out there
wants to buy books to put onyour shelves, get in touch.
I'll give you a wholesale price.
I found out that the markup onmy books is actually better than

(01:03:13):
the markup on most weedproducts, so you know, yeah,
markup on weed is likeremarkably for retail.
Yeah, it's remarkably light,like most retail.
It's like double or extra.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
So I know, yeah, the margins are thin.
That's why it's it's crazy thatwe have 1600 stores still in
ontario, but I know, I know alot of them must be struggling.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
I know, and there's so much price compression
happening too and really I thinkmost of it's being absorbed by
the margins on the LP side andon the retail side.
But with my book you cantotally take my wholesale price
and then double it to be theasking price, which is about $25
right now on Amazon, butAmazonca, but amazonca.

(01:03:59):
You can get the book friggingtomorrow if you want.
That's that's so publishingthrough Amazon definitely has
its drawbacks in terms of likewho you're getting into bed with
, but at the same time it's beena dream.
They did the whole publishingof the book, like I'm sorry I
did it with them, they don't doit for you, you have to, of the
book, like I'm sorry, I did itwith them, they don't do it for

(01:04:21):
you.
You have to.
If you're competent enough tolike format a manuscript and get
together cover art and all thatother stuff, then you excuse me
, you can publish pretty easilyon Amazon and then, yeah, so
amazonca.
Steve Stacy, death by cannabisor death by cannabis the re up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
It would be available in other countries too, though,
right like amazoncom, yeahamazoncom.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
uh, anywhere that amazon has operation, you can
buy the book exactly, yeah, yeahokay, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
I will be sure to link to all that in the show
notes too, so people can findthat pretty easily and buy your
book, because I think theyshould.
I think everybody should readit and, steve, I just want to
say thank you so much for yourtime today.
This has been a real pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Thanks, margaret, thanks for reading the books in
the first place and thanks foreverything you do.
We didn't even talk aboutedibles.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Yeah, well, you know, that's OK.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Oh wait, I want to say one thing about edibles yeah
, full spectrum, yes, all theway Full spectrum.
No dissy yeah that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Thanks, Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
All right, margaret, thanks a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Friends, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with
Steve as much as I did.
If you want to support anindependent author, I'll link to
his books in the show notes andwhere you can find Steve online
, and we'll continue theconversation over the Bite Me
Cannabis Club.
I hope you'll join us and untilnext time, my friends.