Finding Sense & Purpose with Karen Young

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Karen from Sense & Purpose offers a refreshing take on the burgeoning cannabis beverage industry, sharing her remarkable transition from the corporate world of Quaker Oats and Nestle Waters to pioneering cannabis-infused drinks. Promising insights into her journey, Karen discusses how her personal experiences and professional shifts contributed to the creation of a brand that fuses Canada's pure water with cannabis. Her emphasis on high-quality ingredients and the innovative approach to product development highlights the potential of cannabis beverages as a healthier alternative to alcohol, particularly in light of the "Cali sober" movement.

Listeners will gain an understanding of the complexities within the cannabis market, as Karen navigates the challenges of launching a brand in a heavily regulated environment. Her story encapsulates the hurdles of advertising restrictions, the necessity of community-driven support, and the strategic balance of THC and CBD to achieve desired effects in products like "refocus" and "relax." By sharing both personal anecdotes and industry insights, Karen showcases the transformative power of cannabis beverages and their growing acceptance across different demographics.

We also explore the exciting possibilities of collaboration and coopetition in the cannabis industry. Karen highlights the opportunities for innovation and inclusivity, focusing on developing wellness products for diverse communities, including the 2SLGBTQ+ and Gen Z groups. Her vision for the future of cannabis beverages underscores the importance of research and open dialogue in challenging stigmas and fostering a broader understanding of cannabis's benefits. This episode celebrates Karen's inspiring journey and her commitment to shaping a dynamic future for cannabis beverages.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello friends, it's episode 284.
And today we are sitting downto talk to Karen of sense and
purpose.
Stay tuned, welcome to Bite Me,the show about edibles, where I
help you take control of yourhigh life.
I'm your host and certifiedganja Margaret, and I love
helping cooks make safe andeffective edibles at home.

(00:27):
I'm so glad you're here andwelcome back friends.
We have a fun episode today.
I had a wonderful conversationwith Karen of Sense and Purpose,
and Sense and Purpose is abeverage that is available in
Ontario at the very least.
I'm not sure where else inCanada.
I can link to the website soyou can see for yourselves and
find out more about the brand.
After this episode and beforewe get into it, I just want to

(00:50):
say thank you to all thelisteners out there who are
listening, who are contributingin the Bite Me Cannabis Club,
who are sending emails and fanmails and all the things that
you do to support the show,sharing it with other friends
who are into cannabis ediblesand all the rest of it.
It really does make adifference.
Word of mouth is probably one ofthe best ways to spread the

(01:12):
word about a podcast, especiallyin the cannabis space when it
is so difficult to advertise.
I can't advertise on almost anyof the traditional platforms,
unfortunately.
As we all know, meta andinstagram currently are not too
friendly towards cannabis.
Neither are many of the othersocial media platforms, and a
lot of that stuff is in fluxanyway.
Advertising on traditionalpodcast advertising platforms

(01:37):
often don't allow cannabiscontent either, even though I
feel like I'm helping to educatefolks about cannabis and reduce
stigma in a legal jurisdiction.
This this is the reality that Iface.
So any of that word of mouthreally does go a long way to
help people discover the show,and the more the merrier.

(02:00):
Before we get into today's topic, I just want to mention that I
have been working on my mentalwealth this year and I hope that
you are finding ways to improveyour sleep, your diet, your
exercise, your stress managementand using exogenous compounds
to help you maximize each ofthese areas.

(02:21):
I know I am.
I've been working lately ongetting to bed earlier because I
do love to doom scroll and Iknow that's not necessarily
healthy for me, especially whenthey talk about the light that
comes from your phone as beingvery disruptive to your
circadian rhythm.
So even though I get prettydecent sleep, I often use
cannabis before I go to bed.
But I do find that Magic MindSleep helps me also get to sleep

(02:42):
faster, because sometimes, evenwhen I do consume cannabis, my
mind can race a little bitbecause I'm thinking of all the
things that I have to do that's,I guess, entrepreneurial life
and so the Magic Mind Sleephelps me get to sleep faster,
enjoy a deeper sleep, and I useit often in conjunction with
cannabis as well, and it's justone of the tools that I have in

(03:03):
my toolkit to maximize thesedifferent areas of my mental
wealth so I can improve mymental resilience, because that
is really what helps keep yougoing each and every day.
So I love Magic Mind ClarityShot in the morning when I sit
down to work, because thatreally does help me focus and
remain undistracted, which canbe challenging sometimes and the
evenings I like Magic MindSleep.

(03:24):
So why not make 2025 the yearthat you build your mental
resilience right alongside me?
Improve your sleep and yourawake clarity with Magic Mind.
It is doctor validated, it isbacked by research.
It doesn't replace your morningcoffee when you're using the
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.
So you can get 45% off theMagic Mind bundle with my link,

(03:45):
magicmindcom.
Bite me, jam and try foryourself and see what you think.
I would love to trade notes onit.
You can always message me.
You know where to find me.
I'm all over the place, allover my little corner of the
internet.
By all means, reach out.
I love hearing from listeners.
So today we have a very specialguest, karen of sense and

(04:07):
purpose, and one of the thingsthat stood out for me with her
brand is how intentional she wasabout creating this brand for
the beverages market.
And in canada the beveragesmarket, even though it still
represents a pretty smallportion of the overall cannabis
market, seems to be growing.
There's more interest in thatsegment and I don't go to
dispensaries very often myself.
Surprise, surprise, I make alot of edibles.
Overall, cannabis market seemsto be growing, there's more
interest in that segment and Idon't go to dispensaries very
often myself.

(04:27):
Surprise, surprise, I make alot of edibles.
I make a lot of beverages, butwhen I do go to the dispensaries
, one of the things I love totry are new beverages.
The Sense and Purpose brand hasa commitment to high quality
ingredients and Karen is just arock star.
I hope you enjoy thisinteresting and well-rounded
conversation with Karen.
Please enjoy.

(04:48):
I am joined today by with Karenfrom Sense and Purpose, and,
karen, you have created acannabis beverage company called
Sense and Purpose and I'mreally glad that you're taking
the time to sit down with metoday and talk about all things
around cannabis beverages andSense and Purpose.

(05:10):
But before we get into all themeat and potatoes today, why
don't you introduce yourself tothe listeners of Bite Me?

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sure, thank you, and thank you for having me.
I'm really excited to be heretoday.
As I said, this is my veryfirst podcast, so it's a
milestone of itself, hopefullythe beginning of some great
things to come.
But yeah, so I've been in thecannabis business for pretty
much four or five years sincelegalization, but pre that I

(05:40):
actually worked in consumerpackaged goods and I was very
much a corporate person.
I worked with basically twocompanies my whole career.
One was Quaker Oats, which waseventually bought by Pepsi, and
so Pepsi would be Pepsi QTG, sothat group for 18 years.
And then I went on to leadNestle Waters in Canada.
So yeah, that's a little bitabout me.
I personally that's businessside.

(06:01):
Personally, I'm a single mom,single parents, and have been
since my two boys were two andfour.
They're now 29 and 31.
So that was quite some time agoand happy to report that
they're doing quite well and ontheir own.
So I'm kind of feel like I'mliving my long missed teenage

(06:21):
years.
I'm back to being on my own.
My long missed teenage years.
I'm back to being on my own.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
That's kind of nice, though, isn't it?
Especially at a time in yourlife when you probably feel like
you have a lot more knowledgeand wisdom about how the world
works.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
So, absolutely 10 years ago I quit the corporate
world.
I kind of quit life.
Things were tougher back then.
One of my sons was reallystruggling with addiction and
mental illness, so I quit theworld and I ultimately went
traveling around Southeast Asiawith a bunch of 20-year-olds.
And I'll tell you that feelingI was 50 at the time but to your
point, that feeling ofbasically being able to travel

(06:56):
like a 20-year-old but with thebudget and the wiseness or, if
that's the right thing to lookat, experience of a 50-year old
it was a pretty fun experience,I must admit.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
That would have been amazing.
Actually, I think that would bea lot of fun and like I love
hanging around younger people,but then sometimes I'm reminded
that oh yeah, I'm, I'm not 20anymore and I love that.
You mentioned that you wereworking with Quaker or Pepsi,
because where I live, livethere's a Quaker plant.
I guess it would be Pepsi now,but they make.

(07:28):
I'm not sure what they make,but the city often smells like
like toasted oats or maple syrupand stuff and it's it's so nice
, it's very refreshing, insteadof having like a factory that's
spewing out chemicals, it'sspewing out deliciousness.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
I actually worked in that factory so that's a small
world connection between you andI Because I did years and years
ago, in the late 80s, I workedout of that building.
Well, there was the plant andthen there was the head office
right across the river.
I don't even know what they useit for now.
I guess it's all just backup,because they did move to Toronto
.
But yeah, going in there andseeing they used to make Captain

(08:11):
Crunch and yeah bars and allsorts of fun stuff, yeah, the
instant oatmeal and oats andpuffed rice, I think, even all
kinds of things right when theywere puffing it yeah, yeah, yeah
, but people love Quaker oats.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Why people still call it Quaker in town?
But it's just well lovedbecause it smells so good, so
yeah no, that, that was where Igot my foundation.
Yeah, so you've, you've, we'rein the consumer packaged goods.
And then you decided totransition to the cannabis
industry, which most peoplewould think is not an easy
transition to make because it'sso highly regulated.

(08:39):
What inspired you to ventureinto cannabis beverages?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
You know, it's interesting because it wasn't
really a direct path.
It wasn't like I woke up oneday and went, oh, I'm going to
go into cannabis, that'd be agood place to be.
There was a lot of a big doseof naivety.
I would say.
I did not understand what sucha highly regulated industry
would mean, and I think that's agood thing, because if I did

(09:05):
it's one of those things if Iknew then what I know now, I
might not have done what I did.
Right, you know what I mean.
But ultimately, where ithappened is, as I mentioned just
a minute ago, I had gotten to apoint in my career.
I was doing really, really well.
I was set to go international,which is something I'd always
wanted to do, and at the sametime I was having huge
challenges with one of my sons.

(09:26):
And one of my sons was havinghuge challenges and it kind of I
was getting.
The more I was trying to helphim, the less, the more
unhealthy I was getting.
So I was, I guess, burning thecandle at both ends, trying to
run the company, trying to, youknow, help this child.
That at the time we didn't knowwas schizophrenic and an addict
.
So, you know, it just gotreally tough.

(09:47):
So I sort of stepped away fromcorporate world the beginning of
that trip that I just told youabout, just to get myself sort
of healthy and, you know, mind,body, spirit, back to a place
that when he was ready for help,I would be ready to help him.
So in that journey, you know,after my travel and having a
year of just a ton of fun reallyand learning myself and getting

(10:08):
to know myself again, I startedtaking contracts because I was
trying to figure out what I wantto do when I grew up, at the
young age of 51.
And cannabis was becoming legaland I happened.
So it's a bit of circumstancebecause I happened to be working
for on a contract for a smallwater company, helping them get
on its road to profitability,etc.
The brand itself was calledCanada Pure.

(10:31):
I'm saying that because it hasrelevance in that about a year
after working on the business,myself and another consultant
had turned it around for theowner.
He was really a tech guy.
This was more of a passionproject for him and he tasked us
to sell it.
Really a tech guy, this wasmore of a passion project for
him and he tasked us to sell itand we were a bit like taken
aback because we'd worked sohard and we turned this brand

(10:52):
around for him and we were on areally good path and, in fact,
cannabis was becoming legal.
And as we're brainstorming ideas, it just hit me one day like
Canada is known for amazingwater, I certainly learned that
when I was with Nestle waters.
We're known for amazing weed.
But they're both health,healthy products, are both good
for you.
And you know, I, just with mybrain, I kind of went like, wow,

(11:17):
what if you could put weed inwater and make a functional
drink that could help withthings?
So it was literally a bit of adream.
So circumstance and dream, youknow, and and it just kind of
went from there.
So I got this little bee in mybonnet like wouldn't it be great
to do that?
I, my drive, my whole life, hasbeen about affecting positive
change.
That gives me a ton of energy,so that would really affect some
positive change and change somebehavior.
So, yeah, that's that'sbasically how it started.

(11:39):
I knew nothing about thebusiness of cannabis.
All I knew is that I was aconsumer of cannabis and I knew
the benefits of cannabis.
I used to call it mama's littlehelper at times, you know.
So I knew that there was somereally good health benefits to
it, and so, the more I learned,and as I started to learn that

(12:00):
you can control the effect ofthe cannabis based on you know,
a ratio of cannabinoids and howmany like I didn't even know
what a cannabinoid was before Igot into it, but knowing that
there's different ones, it justreally became this mission for
me to develop the world's purest, cleanest, you know functional
beverage, and at the time when Itried to buy the company, I

(12:20):
just thought man, canada Pure,what a great name, right Like,
for something that we weretrying to do.
Now, spoiler alert, I did notget the company, and in
hindsight that was a very goodthing, because then I started to
learn about the regulations andI might not be able to do
exactly what I was thinking atthe time.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right, so you've also been a Lifeline cannabis user
as well.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
I have been yes.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, yes.
Do you have a preferred methodof consumption?

Speaker 2 (12:49):
I almost hate to admit it and I'm trying very
hard to change it, but yes, Ihave been a smoker pretty much
all my life and now, with thelegalization and we got to the
convenience of pre-rolls, Iwould say that that's typically
my preferred choice.
However, now that we've gotbeverages, I am truly working
towards 100% walking the talkand getting off of the smoking
and onto the drinking ofbeverages and edibles as well.

(13:12):
I actually am quite excitedwhich is another reason I'm
excited to be on your show todayand learn from you is I just
bought myself a first miraclebutter maker.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
I think it is, oh nice, the magical butter maker
miracle butter maker.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
I think it is, oh nice, the magical butter maker.
Yeah, I want to learn how tomake some edibles and and really
get off of the smoking because,as we know, like um, combustion
or smoking of any type is justnot good.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
So yeah, well, it's interesting you mentioned that
too because I had a guest on myshow quite a while ago and he we
were busting cannabis myths andone of the myths we talked
about he felt that cannabisbeverages were very akin to the
effects you would get fromsmoking, much more similar in
some respects than in edibles.
And I mean in some ways thatchecks out, because usually the

(13:54):
onset's a lot faster with abeverage.
It doesn't last as long, andI've kind of you know it seems
to check out a lot because I doenjoy the beverages a lot myself
.
I've kind of you know it seemsto check out a lot because I do
enjoy the beverages a lot myself, and so for those smokers out
there who are trying to sort ofstay away from that combustion
that they know isn't so healthyfor them, cannabis beverages can
be a fantastic way to sort ofreplace that habit.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, I mean, I also build on that.
It's totally true, it is likeedibles.
It is a little bit of adifferent, it's sort of a whole
body.
Yeah, I think bit of adifferent, it's sort of a whole
body.
Yeah, okay, I think.
So it does have a differentfeeling.
And then the beverages,depending.
I mean there's rosin beverages,resin beverages, you know,
there's the ones like mine thathave different cannabinoids and
different ratios.
There's some that are juststraight thc.

(14:36):
So they do definitely, um, Ithink, because they do hit you
harder or faster sorry, um, andcome off, you come off of it
faster you definitely get muchmore of that feeling, say, like
a joint.
But I would also say, andcertainly for those legacy
consumers out there like myselfI've heard this a zillion times
and what I tell them they'relike oh, I'm never going to swap

(14:57):
a beverage for my joint, it'llnever do what I want it to do.
So there's a couple of things.
One, it's really quitecomplementary, and so for
someone like myself that'strying to smoke less, my
strategy to do that is I enjoyone of my own beverages, maybe
two or three, while I'm smoking.
But what I find is A, I smoke aheck of a lot less and B it

(15:17):
kind of well, because more sothan B, because it basically,
you know, keeps your thebeverage, complements the hot
kind of keeps you guys there,and so it's helped me
significantly cut down.
And then of course, there'salways times when you're in
situations that you can't smokeanyways, and so it's great for
that.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, yeah.
So beverages are wonderful allaround, so that's why I probably
talk about them so much on myshow.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
I didn't ask you.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Did you?
You've tried the sense andpurpose beverages did you?
Yes, I did.
Yeah, they were great and Ithink the favorite one that I
tried was the recharge.
Yeah, yeah, because that wasthe sparkling water, one with
the juice, which was a reallynice combination, because I love
sparkling beverages and I oftendrink just plain sparkling
water, but that's, uh, the juicethat was with it was really
nice.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, that one was a pretty neat one.
That's our latest addition tothe family, uh, and what is
unique about it relative to theother ones is it really truly is
just juice and sparkling water.
Yep, no sweeteners, no mask,you know, taste maskers or
anything like that.
And then, of course, the the,the emulsion in it with the
cannabis, so and it tastes great.
Right, it doesn't taste likethat.

(16:24):
And then, of course, the the,the emulsion in it with the
cannabis, so and it tastes great.
Right, it doesn't taste likecannabis.
Did it taste like cannabis?
No, no, not at all.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Which is another reason why I like a lot of the
cannabis beverages.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, that was the intense the challenges that a
lot of the my competitors use aton of sugar to mask the taste.
So being able to do somethingthat's natural and with juice
and I must admit there may bejust a little influence from my
past and working with brandslike San Pellegrino sparkling
fruit beverages, or, to me thereis a little bit like I don't
know if you know the drinkOrangina Italian beverage as the

(17:00):
San Pellegrino, so it's alittle bit modeled after that.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, well, you, like you said, you obviously have
the back, perfect background forthat, because it was lovely and
there is a bit of sugar in it,but it's really pretty marginal,
especially when you look atsome of the sugar content of
other cannabis beverages outthere.
Some of them are really high,like more than a can of coke too
.
So you know and I, there'sstill a lot of great ones out
there, but you kind of have topick and choose when you might
want to consume that sugar.

(17:24):
So yeah, it's not really as muchof a concern.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Well, I mean, some of them are so high in sugar and
you said it like they're morethan a can of Coke.
Again, just because I've beenin that business for so long, I
know that a can of Coke is 39grams of sugar, you know, and
that's a lot.
And I've also learned that onegram of sugar is about the
equivalent to four teaspoons ofsugar, right, you know, when
you've got some of thesebeverages, then that are like 40

(17:49):
grams of sugar.
That visual, yeah, you can justimagine that pile of sugar.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
That's it, that's it.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
People are choosy when they take it.
I think we're not about sort ofavoiding those things, it's
about moderation.
But still, you can waste a lotof your I don't know your sugar
allotment on one drink if you'renot careful.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, absolutely, because I can't remember what
the daily allotment for sugarintake of added sugar is
supposed to be, but it'sdefinitely not 39 grams.
It's a lot lower than that, Ithink.
So, yeah, you do have to pickand choose those those occasions
when you're going to use thosehigher sugar beverages.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
But, yeah, that was what we were trying to address
too.
One of the things is knowingthat again, this is where I feel
like I've got a little bit ofan unfair advantage because of
my background.
But just knowing and being soclose to consumer trends and
watching them for you know,certainly when I went to, it
became more, even more prevalentwhen I went to Nestle waters,
because that's all we did waswater or water but just watching

(18:53):
the consumer trends and the andthe growth and focus on health
and wellness, right.
So I knew that low sugar was.
Avoiding sugar is somethingthat folks are trying to do.
Yeah, yeah, you can get intothe zero sugar and seltzers.
That's a pretty big segment inalcohol and in water, as you
mentioned.
Um, zero calories, zero sugar,I often think, zero taste.

(19:15):
So I was trying to findsomething in between.
Yeah, had a decent taste, wasall natural, was low, was low in
and low in sugar.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
So yeah Well, you accomplished that goal for sure.
But I wanted to also touch oncause you kind of mentioned it a
little bit earlier about thepurpose behind Sense and Purpose
Like why did you choose thatname?
What's sort of behind that,that idea?

Speaker 2 (19:40):
You know it's interesting.
So it wasn't like right off thetop.
Like most things I'm learning,they never come right to you
right away.
We went through a fewreiterations to get to the brand
name and it was quite a funprocess and when we got there it
was one of those things that'sgoing to sound silly.
It just made sense Like it wasall of a sudden like that.
But really the idea there's acouple of things.

(20:01):
So behind Sense and Purpose,sense itself is about our
mission to help people.
Certainly new consumers, andthat's really who we are
targeted at is.
If I had to call it a bullseyetarget, it's more that new
consumer.
But it was to help people makesense of this world of cannabis,
because I truly do believe thatcannabis has purpose in
everyday life.

(20:21):
So that's kind of the easiestto you know base premise of it.
At the same time, sense is alsoabout the sort of sensory
experience that we want tocreate.
So we don't just put like we'renot knocking off pop and some
traditional flavors.
We're really thinking throughthe ingredients that we use.
We're using ingredients thatbring inherent claims already on

(20:43):
their own and we've got thingslike green tea paired with
ginger juice, with lemon juice,you know, to give really a great
sensory effect.
So that's the other kind ofmeaning behind sense, and the
secondary meaning behind purposeis exactly that, is it sort of
reflects, you know, intention, Iguess would be the best way to

(21:05):
say it.
And so it was crafting aproduct that had a really
meaningful role, like Iabsolutely wanted these products
to have a purpose in people'slife, whether it's relaxing or
whether it's, you know,connection or self-care or
whatever it might be.
It was about having a purposefor these beverages.
So there's a couple of doubleentendres, I guess, in there

(21:26):
really, but sense and purpose,when you put it all together, I
guess at the end of the day itjust really reflects our
commitment to sort of balanceand a balanced life and a
wellness life.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, I really like that, and it's interesting that
you mentioned that about likethe new consumer, because I
don't think my sister listens tothis show, but she's coming
down to visit me soon and shehas agreed to try some cannabis
beverages.
I think the last time we sharedcannabis together was in high
school and she did not like it,so she hasn't really touched
cannabis since then, but she'swilling to try some cannabis

(22:00):
beverages, some very low doseones, so I'm excited to share
some with her, just to see.
You know, let her test it out,because it's been a very long
time and she's kind of curiousabout it too.
Right, a lot of people arecurious in coming to cannabis
through beverages.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
You know it's interesting.
I've seen a lot of that andfirst of all I have to make sure
I get you some more sense andpurpose so that you can try them
.
But, yeah, so I've got it.
So in my age group I'm actuallyoutside of the bullseye group
as much as I like to think I'min it, because I think I'm a lot
younger than I really am.
But I started doing is I'mtrying to figure out ways to get

(22:38):
to the consumer and I'mrecognizing that they are very
there's a lot that are curiousbut very, very hesitant.
So I started doing houseparties and just so that you
have more of that one on oneexperience, you can help people.
They feel a little bit, youknow, safer, I guess, trying it,
doing exactly what you're doingwith your sister.
So that's awesome.
We need more people doing that.
But you know, when I start toshow them and I will make them,

(23:00):
I've got a cocktail recipe forpretty much each one of them and
I can, you know, recharge, forexample, that we were talking
about, which is basically juiceand sparkling water.
People have told me it's like amimosa in a can, so I can show
them.
You know, oh, if you put in aquarter of the can and you use
some really good non-alcoholicuh, sparkling wine or prosecco,

(23:20):
and that's what I do, is I makemimosas with it.
Oh, very nice, I like that, oh,this tastes great.
And then you know, it's funny tosee them start to get a little
bit of the buzz at times andthey kind of they get giggly and
they love it, and it just easesthem into it with like, uh, oh,
okay, I don't really have thatbig of reason to be afraid of
this.
So, yeah, I love that, I lovewhat you're doing with there.

(23:42):
I think, yeah, that's kind ofone of my strategies is to try
to build a whole slew of friendsand family brand ambassadors,
because I really do think it'sthat they need, I feel like,
especially the women, we needthat comfort, that trust, you
know, when we're trying it,especially when it's the first
time.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Well, it's the set and setting right Like they talk
about set and setting a lotwith psychedelics, but it
applies 100% to cannabis, forsure as well.
And if they're comfortable andthey're with somebody that they
believe knows what they're doing, they'll be a lot more
comfortable, and that's half thebattle, right there.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
The trust, right the trust.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
But I like the idea with thesparkling, the non-alcoholic
sparkling wine.
I think I'll have to try thatout because a lot of I find a
lot of people also aren'tdrinking as much anymore,
because she doesn't drink almostat all, because, like a lot of
women I know that are gettingolder, they find that alcohol
doesn't really agree with themanymore no, and you know what?

Speaker 2 (24:40):
that is a huge, I wouldn't even say trend.
I think it's becoming amovement and I know there's the
term cali sober that's floatingaround right of just no, like
cannabis only and no alcohol,but it is growing, whether it's
male or female, certainly, as Isaid, giving away my age, I'm
about to break into a new decade, so my age group, like we're,

(25:02):
definitely it's not even that itdoesn't agree with our bodies
in that we can't recover like weused to, right yeah, with the
liver damage et cetera.
So, yeah, no, that's a hugetrend.
That, I believe, is what willset cannabis beverages up in
general to just really reallytake off.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
So it's definitely still apretty small market segment, but
it's.
I just see it growing more andmore and, as I've had this
podcast now for about five years, just people are talking about
it more and more and there'sdefinitely the interest I've
seen a huge change in theconversation from four years ago
, when I first started gettingout there and actually trying to
sell in my product stuff, tonow the conversation is it's

(25:43):
miles ahead.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
It's amazing.
And then you look down to theUS.
Oh my God, that's my dream inMinnesota.
Now they've got a little bit ofa loophole because they have
the farm bill, which legalizedhemp and product made from hemp.
At the time I don't think theyrealized that hemp, which does,
it's the same as cannabis.
It just has less than 0.3percent THC, that it actually

(26:05):
can form a form of THC that isjust as potent as from cannabis,
but it's being sold outside ofthe cannabis act.
So in regular wine stores, likeliterally, there's a store I've
seen pictures of it.
It's here's your beer drinks,here's your cooler drinks,
here's your thc drinks, and hugedisplays and you know it's
really cool to see that and andI I think one day that'll be

(26:28):
like that here, but uh I wouldlove that.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
And did you mention minnesota in particular, or just
as just general in the states?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
no, it's minnesota in particular, where I think they
were kind of the lead in um Idon't want to say the name or
get it wrong, but I think it wassix points wine company.
It was a specific company thatsort of really grasped all of it
.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Now more and more states are, so it is starting to
spread across the states well,because I do have listeners in
minnesota as well and they toldme that they are a lot of the
bars like you can go to like abar and buy a cannabis drink,
and I was just like that wouldbe such a game changer Because a
lot of the times like I have tobe careful when I drink.

(27:07):
A lot of times you're you knowif you've driven to a place you
have to think about that and Ijust also don't want to be laid
out for a whole day or longer ifI get a hangover which takes
less and less alcohol these days.
So I think that was reallyforward thinking as far as
Minnesota goes and I wish Canadawould be a little more forward
thinking on that.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, we're just ultimately hugely conservative,
as we all know, and you knowwhat good reason.
I think, like with HealthCanada, the whole approach was
start low and go slow.
Yeah, really, really, reallytight regulations, and I know a
lot of people were kind ofticked off because it seemed in
the time leading up to justlegalization in 2018.
And then beverages and edibleswere a year later, it felt like

(27:50):
they kept changing regulationsand making them even tighter,
and so you know there was somefrustration but at the same time
, with their mandate of justtrying to keep quality, keep it
out of hands of kids, the safety, you know, the theory is it's
always easier to loosen aregulation than it is.
And that's what's happened inthe U S, like they've gotten

(28:11):
themselves into a little bit ofa pickle, but it's um.
I think it's a good place to beand I know it's going to start
here in in alberta.
I would say alberta is ourforward thinking portion of the
cannabis industry and so twoyears ago I believe it was they
started allowing it at likecomedy festivals and and great
guests and stuff concerts.

(28:32):
They learned a bit in how theyexecuted it.
It was allowed again this yearwith opening it up a little bit
more in terms of, you know,having space, a consumption area
, whatever.
So I think it's coming.
I think it's coming.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
So you're saying that you could go to a comedy
festival and you could.
You could get a beer or youcould get a cannabis beverage or
something like that.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah, it wasn't quite that simple.
It was like there was asegregated area and the first
year that they did it, I believeliterally like they would be in
conjunction with a retailer andthey you could almost like
order it instantly and theretailer would then bring it I
see that space and deliver itthere.
As it evolved from what Iunderstand this past year was
more about a retailer couldactually have a little kiosk

(29:16):
right on site, but it was stillin a segregated area, you know
away from from the alcohol,right, but I think it's only a
matter of time where yeah,before they're next to each
other.
I mean, I don't know, obviouslyI'm a bit biased, but uh, both
again for beverages and forhealth and wellness, because you
, you know, no matter which wayyou look at it, a cannabis

(29:39):
beverage is going to do a heckof a lot less damage to you than
alcohol.
Like it's, it's an old personin alcohol right.
It's hurting our liver, it'shurting our brain, like look at
the issues.
So I think once we kind ofhealth Canada and and you know
we've experimented enough withit they get their heads around
this and quite understand that.
You know it's a no brainer inmy mind, so I just hope I don't

(30:01):
have to see it.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
I know Right Cause sometimes these things seem to
take a long time, but I knowthere's people working on this
kind of thing, so, and I amgrateful that we also have
federal legalization and not theyou know sort of the state by
state model that they're doingright now in the US, so there's
definitely a huge advantage tothat alone.
So, eventually, because alsobeing able to buy a cannabis

(30:24):
drink at a comedy festivalsounds like the perfect
combination to me, like that'swhat.
I would love yeah.
Now, as far as sense of purposegoes, what have been some of
the biggest, biggest challengesthat you faced in bringing this
product to market?
Um?

Speaker 2 (30:41):
probably not necessarily what you would think
.
I would say the biggestchallenges were and continue to
be one raising money, whichlinks directly to cash flow.
But when I say cash flow, whatI've learned is that really
means picking the rightmanufacturer partner.
Manufacturer partner.

(31:07):
So because of the sort ofexcitement let's call it around
cannabis in the early days andthese huge valuations on
companies that then, really,five years later, you know, had
to not downsize, I'd say rightsize.
They were building empires.
They had so much money, theywere spending it on things that
you know.
They were building their buyswithout looking at what the
market could hold, could bearand, as a result, there's been a
real cloud over cannabis.

(31:27):
Then you throw in a few littleextra twists, like COVID, high
inflation rate and interestrates.
Now I kind of look back at this.
All you can do is laugh,because otherwise you'd cry.
But you know, I started productdevelopment in April 2020.
Like we were on, we had, youknow, we had just we'd raised

(31:48):
some money, or we were on ourway to doing that and all of a
sudden COVID hit.
So that really threw a wrenchat first.
And again, I think, like anybig challenge, it does depend on
how you approach it, because Istarted to look at it as an
opportunity and so it worked outwell.
But so that would be one israising the money.
There's been this cloud over it.
So even today we're about tostart it.

(32:09):
I've been trying for two yearsto raise money.
I've had to sell fun because Ijust can't.
People just are not interestedin cannabis in Canada right now.
So you know, unless you're a$40 million company

(32:49):
no-transcript.
So when they get paid for yourorder from, say, the ocs, the
ontario cannabis store, theyjust kind of keep that money to
help solve their own problemsand they're not passing it along
.
So you know, we had a hugechallenge.
I had to leave one manufacturerbecause of it, almost on a high

(33:13):
point.
I relaunched this year inCannes, so again able to take a
negative and turn it into apositive.
But, yeah, it's kind of theboring business side.
That's been the biggestchallenge, to be honest, when in
fact I thought it would be moreabout building the brand, when
you were so interested in whatyou could put on a can or what
you can say or you know, Ithought that would be the bigger

(33:34):
challenge, but in fact it'sreally been some of the business
fundamentals yeah, and thoseare pretty significant
challenges from the sounds of itand you're not the first person
that I've heard that thataspect of the business is really
difficult.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
So, which is unfortunate, because I think
that you would have more peopleparticipating, I guess, with
some really interesting stuff,if it wasn't so problematic to
raise the money and and dealwith the licenses and all that
kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
So, yeah, well on the other side of it, it that it
does really kind of hurt myheart and I don't know what to
do with it.
I'd like to do something aboutit.
I don't know what it means yet,but is what I see is I see it
really is kind of squishing thelittle guy out of the market?
Yeah, you know, and we'recalled Canadian fashion, we're
getting very consolidated andit's a couple or a few big big

(34:20):
players that are dominating andyou know, the smaller,
entrepreneurial, like littlebrands like myself are really
struggling to survive and I'veunfortunately seen a lot of them
not survive.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, and that's unfortunate, no matter what
industry you're talking about,because it's the smaller brands
that I think bring a lot ofinteresting things to the market
.
Cannabis is definitely noexception and, yeah, when you,
when you have, like these hugebusinesses, they're just not as
receptive, they're not as agile,I guess, and they're the stuff

(34:51):
that they're putting out justisn't as interesting, I think.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Well, and I mean, we're all focused on business.
So I don't want this to comeacross the wrong way, but I
think there is a different levelof passion when you're dealing
with the entrepreneur directly.
Right, and so yes, for me.
I hope to, you know, make somedecent money out of it and maybe
retire one day.
But it really isn't about themoney.
It was about being able tobring a really amazing product

(35:16):
to market that does something,that's going to help people, and
so the creativity.
You can lose that, Whereas abig company, you know they tend
to be all about OK, well,where's the volume today?
And we're seeing that in ourcategory, for example, with
beverages, 70 percent of thecategory of the products in the
category are, you know, themaximum THC of a soda, whether

(35:44):
it's a craft soda or a knockoffof root beer or cream soda, or
you know what it is.
And taste is iffy.
Certainly, in the beginningthey were awful, but then that's
when I started adding the sugar.
But you know why?
Because right now, the majorityof the cannabis segment is
typically male, typically sortof 30-ish.
They don't care as much aboutsugar, they're more interested
in getting a buzz or whatever itis.

(36:05):
So that's where the market istoday.
Who is out there looking forthe future?
And I'm not sure that the bigguys are really prepared to do
that, because they need to see areturn a lot faster.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Right, it becomes a little unfair to say, but yeah,
a bit of a generalization, butthat's what I see.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, it'sentrepreneurs like you that are
changing the game and bringingout these interesting products,
and you have your ear to theground when it comes to some of
these other people who areconsuming them, like it's not
just the 30 year old guy, it'slike someone like me who's in my

(36:37):
forties and I have a verydifferent perspective on the
world.
So we need folks like you to beputting these things out.
So I hope, on that same vein,you can share some of the wins
or the milestones that you'vehit.
I'm sure it hasn't all beenchallenges.
I'm sure there's been some good, some good positives as well.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, no, look, I did realize, I would say, one of
the biggest challenges ingeneral.
I'm not sure that a lot ofpeople have been able to do it
I'm very proud of the fact thatI have but it's just shifting
from that corporate world tothat entrepreneurial world where
you know, corporate world,you've got systems, you've got
processes, you've got data,you've got all sorts of things.
In this world it's a little bitlike all over the place.

(37:17):
So, yeah, no, we've had somereally amazing wins.
You know, if I think and I wasthinking about some of the
things that have, you know, just, I get such a high from no pun
intended, cause I haven't spokenanything the bit one of the big
big ones was, you know, we wereI was about two and a half
years into this like researchingand trying to figure out how to
make it happen before wefinally raised our first bit of

(37:40):
capital and we were at the pointwhere it was like, okay, we're
either going to go somewhere orwe're not.
And you know so, when we closedthat sort of first lead investor
in that first round quitehonestly, the only round so far
and that was able to get us tomarket, I just remember how
excited we were and we had doneso much prep and work that we

(38:02):
were ready to just go, so fromclosing the capital to making.
I think we were, and we haddone so much prep and work that
we were ready to just go.
So from closing the capital tomaking, I think we were in
market within six months, whichwas pretty cool.
Um, I would say, another big,big one which all the time gets
me excited is when I see some ofthe results coming in.
So in alberta, I just thoughtsomebody was doing some due
diligence on Sense and Purpose.

(38:22):
We've been having some talksabout maybe working together and
told me that guess what we'relike?
We've been consistently rankedthe number seven best-selling
brand in Alberta for beverages.
There's 70 or 80 brands, so I'mpretty excited about that.
I know we launched in cans wasanother big, big highlight this
year because I launched in abottle initially for a very

(38:44):
specific reason.
It was COVID.
We couldn't get the right cans.
I'm out of efficacy, you know.
I didn't want the cannabinoidsleaching into the can liner, so
I went in bottles.
But I knew ultimately I neededto be in a can.
So switching manufacturers lastyear, getting a new contracts,
getting away from the one thatwasn't paying me and then being

(39:05):
able to launch in cans, butreally seeing how quickly we
were almost out of market for ayear and then we got right back
up to 300 stores carrying us soquickly, and that just tells me
that the retailers get it, theyunderstand it.
So I don't know.
I could go on forever.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
No, but that's great though, because if you didn't
have those wins, then youprobably wouldn't be sitting
here right now talking to me,because you would have given up
by now.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Well, that's it.
Yeah, yeah, Like those wins,keep going.
I have to say, margaret, thoughand I do a lot of events,
because that's the one way youget that interaction we leverage
technology a ton.
We're very strategic.
We're a very small team.
I joke, I'll say we're a teamof three me, myself and I, you
know, but I actually do have afourth person that is with me on

(39:53):
this journey, and but whenwe're at events and I just did
the kind winter fair show butwhen I see somebody like oh,
beverages, and they're like veryskeptical and they all taste
like this, and then they tasteit, and to see that look on
their face, and then all of asudden, they're like whoa, like
what is this?
And then you get into this,full on conversation.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Like that in itself is probably the number one thing
that gives me the energy tokeep going Right yeah, dealing
directly with the people who areconsuming your product, for
sure, which is a really nicesegue into my next question.
And because you're a smallbusiness, you're an entrepreneur
, you are interacting with thepeople that you're like the
customers.

(40:33):
What kind?

Speaker 2 (40:38):
of feedback do you get, generally speaking, from
the customers that are drinkingyour drinks?
We get.
We almost always, like 99% ofthe time, we get really positive
feedback.
The things that they're mostsurprised about is that it
tastes good and, believe me, inthe first couple of years of
cannabis beverages again, wewere a year later, so we've been
legal since 2019.
So the first two to three years, even now like they did not

(41:00):
taste good.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
So I remember that yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
People are typically surprised in a good way at how
great they taste.
And then when we get into theconversation of what they are
and like, literally I have fouringredients, you know, outside
of the emulsion, which takes uptwo lines on my ingredient sort
of list, I maybe fouringredients in each one, as I'm
very clean and very low in sugar.

(41:23):
So people are always amazed atthat.
And then usually the third mostcommon comments I get, almost
always in this order too, is thedosages that we're using and
the fact that we're playing withratios of THC to CBD to give an
effect.
We're not allowed to tell youabout it, but that's why I named
my beverages that way likerefocus, recharge, relax.

(41:44):
They actually do what they saythat they do.
And what's even more fun is nowI'm running into consumers at
some of these shows, orbartenders and retailers that
have actually now tried thedrink, and so every time I get
the feedback like oh my God,this actually does.
What you said it was going todo is just amazing.
It's almost to the point that Istarted to think maybe they're

(42:06):
all just blowing smoke up mybutt because no one has had
anything negative yet.
Like.
The most negative I've had isoh, I don't like grapefruit, or
I can't have grapefruit becauseit affects my whatever
medication.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
So, yeah, I didn't run into that, obviously, but
I'm sure they're not blowingsmoke up your ass because you're
putting out a great product, sowhy would they Well?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
exactly, and they don't know me, so why would they
?
But yeah, sometimes I just Ithink I continue to be surprised
at just how well received theyare.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that's great to hear andthat's got to be part of the.
The wins that you'reexperiencing is when you get
that wonderful feedback frompeople.
But that does.
That does bring up the questionof how you see stigma still
showing up in the work thatyou're doing, because I tend to
forget myself because, like mywhole world is around cannabis
I'm talking to cannabis people,I mean like it's just all

(42:55):
cannabis and then I rememberthere's people like my sister
who doesn't consume.
Now she's pretty open-minded,being considering what I do, but
there are a lot of people outthere who still have a lot of
stigma around cannabis and kindof, you know, turn their nose up
to it or whatever.
Are you encountering that verymuch in the work that you're
doing?

Speaker 2 (43:14):
I've definitely come across it and I would agree with
you that it is probably stillour biggest challenge.
Again, I'm the type of personthat a challenge means an
opportunity, so I think it isour biggest challenge.
Again, I'm a type of personthat a challenge means an
opportunity, so I think it isour biggest opportunity.
I do think it is starting tofade quite quickly, which is
great.
I think I've also learnedthere's some people you're just
never going to change their mind, right, so I'm learning to back

(43:36):
away from those pretty quickly.
But the majority of people thatI'm coming across, also in my
family like I'm.
I'm all about cannabis as well.
As I said up front, I'veconsumed my whole life.
Not that most of my family knewthat.
That's only recent that they'velearned that, um, but most of
them are not.
Like.
I grew up in a generation ofbasically drinkers and so even

(43:56):
my friend group they're alldrinkers and they're very
hesitant.
There's some stigmas there.
Some of them I've not triedpush it, but I find the majority
of them are quite open and oneof the probably the most
surprising things when I thinkof this stigma and how it's
going away the fastest groupgrowing group of cannabis
consumers is like 60 plus Right,I've actually been asked to

(44:19):
come into my mom's in aretirement home.
I've been asked to come in and,you know, demo my beverages and
talk about them and, quitefrankly, I'm nervous to do that.
I haven't, I will.
I haven't done it yet.
I'm actually like called thecannabis nurses because, quite
honestly, I'm too afraid to goand talk about a recreational
product in a setting like thatwith people that I don't know
what meds they're on.
So right, you know, I thinkthere's a lot of work we have to

(44:40):
do there.
But the point is my 83 year oldmother drinks half a can of
relax every night to go to bedso that she can stay asleep.
So the stigma is there.
I think my takeaway would bethe stigma is there, it's
definitely fading fast.
We're doing our part, you andme, to sort of help get rid of
that stigma and I think the morewe bring it out in our

(45:01):
conversations like certainly nowall of a sudden around my
friend group, it's like no one'slike, oh, you're in cannabis.
It's, you know, it's just aconversation, how's business?
What are?

Speaker 1 (45:10):
you doing and people find it interesting.
But when you mention that it'sthe 60 plus group where that
demographic, that interest isgrowing a lot, it's surprising.
But it's not surprising becausecannabis is so effective at so
many at so helping people withso many different ailments.
So the fact that your mom, forexample, uses it to help her
sleep.
And then there's also the theidea too that a lot of older

(45:33):
folks they, like you said, somepeople will never change their
mind, but they might be open totrying a cannabis topical
because those can also be supereffective.
So that's uh, you know, ifthey're, if they don't want to
get high, and some people justdon't, then there's definitely
other options that the plant canoffer them too.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
So that's what makes this thing so wonderful well and
I think, right there you'rehitting it is.
People are starting tounderstand slow, slow it's
lagging even a little bit, butthat it's not always about
getting high.
Yeah, right, you know, know,you get into some of these CBD
and the minor cannabinoids likeCBN and CBG and CBC.
You know, I don't know, I wasdoing some research because I

(46:10):
want to get into that with mydrinks.
Cbn is a minor cannabinoid thatI found out apparently has been
used for like 50 years to treatinsomnia, but we didn't know
about that, right?
So I think the more that peopleare learning and understanding
that it's not just about gettingbuzzed, they're definitely that
goes a long way to getting ridof the stigma.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yes, I think, especially with probably older
folks as well, just because theidea of setting an intention or
using it intentionally resonateswith a lot of folks, because
they just don't want to feellike they're just I don't know.
I mean, I'm too old to be likeI'm getting wrecked.
That's not where I'm at in mylife right now, like maybe 20
years ago that might've been adifferent story, but you know

(46:52):
that's that's not what I'mtrying to do these days.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
So no, I hear you a hundred percent.
It's not my favorite activityanymore.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Now are you doing anything else with sense and
purpose around the concept ofeducating consumers about
responsible consumption?

Speaker 2 (47:06):
We're doing our best within the limitations that we
have.
I always believe in pushing theenvelope.
So yeah, I mean we've got aneducation for sure.
Education is at the base ofeverything we do, from retailers
and bud tenders onward.
You know, when I get newlistings I'm pretty insistent.
I mean, of course I'm not goingto turn it down, but I really
push for saying I want theability to train and educate

(47:27):
your staff, because they're theones that are going to be
influencing the consumer.
So definitely do a lot there.
I've got training videos andthat sort of thing that we do
with them, with the consumer.
It really is always trying toput it in that guise of not
guise of, but like in that realmof education and talking about

(47:47):
how it can help them and thefunction I think I've done.
I know I'm pretty sure I'vetaken a different approach than
most.
I really have approached thisnot as a not like cannabis
beverages, not as a cannabisopportunity, like not as just
another format of cannabis.
I've really approached it as abeverage opportunity and it's a
functional beverage opportunityand our function just happens to

(48:10):
come from cannabis.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
So Right, yeah, so you're really taking the lead on
that and saying because the budtenders, too, have a pretty
important role, because they arethe customer facing employee at
any dispensary and people arecurious, they want to know, yeah
, so education wise.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
I'm really keen.
It's just a brand newrelationship I'm starting to
form, but I met a few weeks agomaybe a month ago now in Calgary
I was out there for an eventand, as I said, I mentioned this
group called.
I met this group called theCannabis Nurses and you know
they do a lot of work withveterans and you know helping

(48:46):
elderly and educating.
When I told them one of myconcerns about going into a
retirement home, they're like,well, let's do it together
because we know that side of itand the product.
So, yeah, looking forward todoing, you know, more
collaborations where educationis at the forefront of it.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Right, and I think that's really important too,
especially on the medical side,because even though it's legal
here, there's a lot of medicalprofessionals that are still
hesitant to prescribe cannabis,if you will Like.
If I go to my doctor, I'mprobably they're probably not
going to tell me, oh, just usesome cannabis, like.
That's just not where they'reat yet and they need some of
that education which they'reprobably not getting in medical

(49:22):
school.
So these types ofcollaborations are really
important and it soundsinteresting because, like you
said, there's older folks innursing homes that want to know
about this stuff and they'd bereally interested.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
There's also younger folks too, you know, and I look
back with I don't know if itwould have helped, but I look
back at the situation with myson and you know, in hindsight,
which is always 2020.
And we look back way back towhen sort of his challenges
started and he was smoking a lotof weed and because I'm
tolerant of weed, I kind ofthought he's a rebellious

(49:53):
teenager.
He's going to grow out of it.
You know what I mean.
But what I realized and learnedwas that he was self
medicatingicating because he wasanxious and he, you know, he
couldn't sit still and there wasall sorts of issues going on
that he was trying to calmhimself because he was too
embarrassed to talk about theanxiety he's feeling.

(50:13):
Unfortunately, society todayand we could go a whole other
podcast just probably on thatbut there's a lot of young
people, middle-aged people, likewe're all.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Mental illnesses, yeah, challenge yeah yeah, and
it's not something that getstalked enough about, and I don't
know if there's sometimesenough funding, even in canada,
for mental health services andstuff because, there's still
stigma around that as well, forsure to come out openly and say
you're having these struggles,but it's also not surprising,
because I feel like we live insome really weird times right

(50:44):
now too, and if you're alreadyhaving some struggles with
mental health and then you pileon all the weird shit that's
happening right now, it's it'suh, cannabis can be very helpful
, but it's also that's when youprobably need a little more
guidance as far as using, asyou're not self-medicating.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah, I live right near CAMH.
I'm here because of my son.
That's how I got to this area.
And the whole model is aboutharm reduction.
Yeah Right, and I kind of lookat it, I even look at myself,
like before I quote quit theworld in 2015,.
I mean, I was drinking too much, I was smoking too much.
I smoking too much, I wastalking too much, I was working

(51:22):
too much, like I was just, andyou know, had I had something
like sense and purpose availableto me, I honestly believe I
would have, would have been in avery different place right now.
I went away, I fasted for 28days and I detox and I did all
that great fun stuff that youneeded to do, cause it's not
just about you know, notdrinking, so to speak.
But yeah, there's, I think wethere's a huge place in the

(51:46):
world for this type of thing.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Now, how has working in thecannabis industry changed your
perspective on cannabis, becauseyou already mentioned that
you've been sort of a lifelongcannabis user.
Has your perspective changed atall?

Speaker 2 (52:00):
I would say, if anything, it's probably
broadened and sort of grown evenmore to love what it can do.
As I said, I've learned a ton,but when you start to really
understand how it's been used,like I didn't know CBN and had
been used for insomnia for 40years and we use, you know, did
it in different formats.

(52:20):
I would say it's really helpedme grow, um, and really
appreciate it.
And I've loved, as I've learned, the industry.
You know you have to network,that's the way you you learn
from other people and just tosee how it's impacted and
affected so many people in sucha positive way and the different
uses yeah, I have absolutely.
I would love being in theindustry.
Um, I'm not afraid or shy ornervous to tell anybody I'm in

(52:43):
cannabis anymore.
I might have been a little bitat the beginning.
I will admit Like oh, what arethey going to think of me?
And I did actually I lost oneor two friends over it, to be
honest, into cannabis, becausethey're like how could you do
that with a son having thechallenges you have?
And they just thought it wasvery poor taste.
So you have to kind of let thoseones go and work through that,

(53:04):
you know.
But just to see and know thebenefits, it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Right, yeah, well, that makes a lot of sense to me
because I know before I startedthis podcast I knew some stuff
about weed, but not that much Irealize now I actually think I
do very little.
Actually, I remember there wasa point in my life quite a while
ago that, you know, I used tothink that the strain names, the
cult of our names, are justkind of made up and I suppose,
like I, just there was a lot Ididn't know.

(53:30):
So legalization and having thisshow has I've just learned so
much and legalization inparticular, because you people
are free to do more research andtalk about it openly and it's
not underground and hidden, andthat a hundred years of
prohibition has kind of set backthe research a lot.
But that's all changing now,which is really exciting to see.
So it's an exciting time to bein cannabis as well, especially

(53:53):
in Canada, because we're kind ofleading the charge in the world
, which is really exciting aswell.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
So yeah, you know and it is.
There's sometimes it'sfrustrating that we do.
You know the research isopening up.
It's awesome, but there's alsobeen anecdotal research for
thousands of years about howamazing this plant is, but I
didn't know any of that.
I never would have thought to goand look into that.
And it's only when you start tolearn more because we're in it

(54:18):
that you realize it.
And yeah, it's empowering, it'sexciting.
You feel like you're part ofsomething that's really positive
.
You know, and anything is goingto have both sides Someone
could always take advantage ofwhatever the situation is.
But yeah, no, I think it's beenpretty amazing.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
So for yourself and for Sense and Purpose, where do
you see Sense and Purpose?
And yourself in say five years?

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Well, I would love to see Sense and Purpose as a much
larger company.
So Sense and Purpose is mybrand.
I just wanted to say something.
And Woven with two V's is thecompany Right, and the whole
idea of Woven is with the twoV's was, I fully believe.
When you weave things together,it becomes much, much stronger.

(55:06):
So my whole approach tobusiness is about working with
partners and bringing inlike-minded business partners,
not employees right andcontracts and stuff.
So Sense and Purpose being ourfirst brand, it's got a lot of
legs and it's got a lot ofplaces it can go in the
immediate future because ofreally funding.

(55:27):
I see us rounding out theplatform or the family.
Like I did have a recover in alittle elixir shot.
It was in Alberta, didn't getaccepted here, it's a bit ahead
of of its time.
I see getting that into um,into a can, and I see maybe some
flavor extensions.
But I also see us getting intowith that brand getting into and
in five years I'd love to bethe ones that are like the

(55:49):
wellness leaders.
We've got a menopause drink,we've got a.
You know that'd be great.
An old person drink a sleep,whatever.
Like there's so many places togo, so I want to go into minor
cannabinoids and continue towork with ratios in that.
But I also have a couple ofother brands in my back pocket
that I've trademarked.
One that I've sort oftrademarked and earmarked sorry,

(56:10):
in my mind specificallytargeted at the 2SLGBTQ plus
community Big cornerstone ofcannabis and its legalization.
I also happen to be part of thecommunity so of course I want
to support my community um, so Ithink that's pretty exciting.
And then I have another one umthat is, I would say, earmarked

(56:30):
really for that gen z.
This is the generation that'sgrown up only knowing cannabis
being legal, basically, yeah,and they really aren't drinkers
like alcohol drinkers.
Uh, now, I'm very conscious andthere I think there's some
absolute legitimacy about youknow what cannabis can do to a
young brain, so I don't want toquote market at them, market to

(56:52):
them until they get to somepoint.
I think they're the lead genzeds now are somewhere around 22
, 23, I believe.
So you know, I think it'sprobably only a matter of some
time to get that.
So yeah, I see the company justcontinuing to expand and, you
know, hopefully I can continueto lead it.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Well, that all sounds wonderful and also sounds like
you're going to be really busyover the next few years, which
is exciting.
But something you said to methat really stood out is the
collaboration component, becauseI love the concept of
collaboration versus competition, because I feel like it's just
the way forward.
Competition can be so negativeand often is a lot of the times.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
And I think it can be limiting right.
I like to think of it ascoopetition, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I chat to otherbeverage owners and it also
comes back to all, or what is it?
All tides, tides lift, allboats.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yes, Something like that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Every time I say it, I go, I've I gotta go check that
one and get it straight.
But basically, tides lift allboats.
So, yeah, you know, if I'mtalking and collaborating or
doing a sharing space in a, anevent, with another beverage
brand, as long as we're notpositioned at the exact same
target, it doesn't matter.
I mean humans, we drink onaverage 10 beverages a day.

(58:21):
So, right, I'm not expectingand and I I'd be, I think, silly
to think that, oh, you know,I'm going to dominate cannabis
beverages and I want everybodyto drink only sense and purpose,
like that's never going tohappen and you don't want that
to happen.
Yeah, the competition for a daybecause I have recover, recharge
, refocus and relax, so I'veright eat them all at the time

(58:42):
of day so you can.
You know, one fits at anyoccasion um in the day.
But yeah, no, I, I totallyabout the working together, I
think.
Yeah, I kind of feel likethat's a more of a female thing
too in our style of leadership,you know, I think I think so too
.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, Cause I've been like I had 2024 as my year of
community and so I've been a lotof the interviews I've been
doing.
This concept of collaboration,when I've been talking to, to
guests on the show that werefemale or women, that seems to
come up really naturally.
It's not something I had tobring up myself and I find that
really interesting and I love itbecause I had to bring up

(59:18):
myself and I find that reallyinteresting and I love it
because I really think, like Isaid, collaboration is the way
forward.
We've historically had a lot ofcompetition and I'm tired of it
.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
We've got a huge, huge, huge world.
There's room for everybody.
Yes, exactly yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
So just to wrap up here before we go what would
surprise people about you?

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Hmm, often my age does Right Right.
Often they think I'm a lotyounger than I am.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
And I can see you, the people listening.
You'll have to go, perhaps, tothe show notes to check out the
video, but you definitely dolook younger than your age.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Oh, thank you, and I have white hair, so that's
surprising.
It looks kind of blonde,platinum blonde.
Yeah, yeah, it's all natural.
This is COVID hair, by the way,I don't color it.
What would surprise peopleabout me?
I mean, I think probably, uh,the most people are most
surprised when they learned thatI've smoked cannabis all my

(01:00:24):
life, especially since I was inthe corporate world and I was
pretty high up in the corporateworld.
I think that's a little bit ofa surprise, um, but that is
definitely be surprising, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Yeah, that's a great way to wrap up because a lot of
the times I realized from doingthis show and talking to so many
people that people who usecannabis come from all walks of
life and period.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
So that's, it yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Yeah.
So, karen, I just want to saythank you so much for talking
with me today.
This has been a reallyinteresting conversation and, of
course, I wish you all the bestin the next year, the next few
years, and I'll be watching whatyou're doing.
And thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Well, thank you for having me on, and I love what
you're doing as well, margaret,in terms of just helping break
down that stigma, helping usunderstand different uses and
different ways to enjoy it, andI think together we are making
changes.
So we're making a change, so Ilove it, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Karen as
much as I did.
I think she's fabulous and Ilove to see strong, smart,
capable women entrepreneursshaking up their category space,
and I have had the pleasure ofinterviewing many of them on
this very show.
Which is one of the things thatkeeps me going is just

(01:01:46):
highlighting the stories andvoices of people who are doing
cool things in the cannabisspace, and if you haven't had a
chance to check it out already,do check out last week's episode
on edibles trends.
Karen has some thoughts thatshe shared about her predictions
for 2025, as did a handful ofother interesting people in the
cannabis space.
I think you would find thatinteresting if you haven't

(01:02:07):
listened to that one yet and, ofcourse, by all means, let me
know about what you think aboutthis episode, or maybe you have
your own 2025 predictions thatyou would like to share.
Don't forget that you can alsoget 45% off your Magic Mind
bundle with my link,magicmindcom.
Forward slash, bite me, jam anduntil next week, my friends,
I'm your host, margaret.

(01:02:27):
Stay high.