September 20, 2024 • 56 mins
Ever wondered how to better support your millennial children without overstepping? Tess Brigham, renowned as the "millennial therapist," joins us to share her unique journey from the glitz of Hollywood to the fulfilling world of psychotherapy. Discover her expert insights into fostering independence in young adults by encouraging them to solve their own problems, rather than simply handing them solutions. Tess's approach is all about guiding questions that empower young people to navigate their own challenges confidently.
Tess helps us unearth the pressures millennials face today, from social media comparisons to the looming "30 under 30" lists. We discuss the anxiety that accompanies unmet milestones and the fear of future failure, drawing intriguing parallels to the concerns faced by people in their sixties. Learn how to build trust in oneself through life transitions and the essential role parents play in this process, all while avoiding the trap of enabling. Tess sheds light on the evolving attitudes toward mental health among younger generations and the impact of technology on their work-life boundaries.
Get ready for practical, heartfelt advice on how to provide emotional support to your adult children. Tess emphasizes the power of supportive texts and acknowledging efforts in boosting confidence and happiness. We tackle the complexities of work-life balance, especially in a world where constant connectivity blurs the lines between professional and personal life. Gain valuable strategies for setting boundaries, achieving financial independence, and embracing generational differences in career expectations.
A big thank you to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer, for making this episode possible. We love hearing from you! Share your thoughts with us at biteyourtongue@gmail.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, here's another rewind.
We really think you'll lovethis one.
This one is with Tess Brigham.
She's a licensedpsychotherapist and life coach,
but she's also known as themillennial therapist.
She interviews so many youngmillennials and takes us behind
the scenes to really understandwhat are the things facing our
(00:23):
adult children today, to reallyunderstand what are the things
facing our adult children today.
She's been featured in so muchof the media and she also did
another episode with us, aquestion-answer episode.
You can go back and listen tothat too, but this one really
lets us peek behind the curtain.
We hope you like it so let'sget started.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
if you've got a kid, where you're really, I'm really
enabling them and I'm solvingall their problems for them,
that's where you want to stopsolving their problems and
simply, when you get on thephone with them, ask them
questions, which is they'recalling you and saying, oh my
god, I don't know what to do.
A pipe broke in my house and Idon't know.
Should I call a plumber?
Do I call the landlord?
(01:08):
What do I do?
That's a moment where you wantto say, well, what, huh?
What do you think you should do?
What makes the most sense foryou right now?
And coach them through solvingthe problem on their own.
That's one thing that I see is Isee a lot of parents wanting to
, you know, wanting to do itdifferently, maybe, than how
their relationship with theirown parents and they want to
have this close relationshipwith their kids, and then they
(01:29):
realize like, oh my God, mykid's 25 and they're calling me
all day, every day, asking meabout everything.
And so those are the moments intime where you want to start to
be a bit more strategic andthink, okay, I need to get them
to solve their own problem, andso that requires you to just ask
questions, just questions, nostatements.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Hello everyone, I'm Denise Gorin.
Welcome to Bite your Tongue thepodcast.
Thanks for joining us as wespeak with experts, authors,
parents and even young adults toexplore the transition from
parenting our young children tobuilding healthy relationships
with our now adults.
Hopefully we'll grow together,learn about ourselves, our young
(02:17):
adults and, of course, when tobite our tongues.
We are so happy you're with us,so let's get started.
Bite our tongues.
We are so happy you're with us,so let's get started.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of Bite your
Tongue the podcast.
It's hard to believe, but it'sbeen just about one year since
we dropped our first episode.
We're so grateful to all of you, our listeners and, of course,
(02:41):
also to our amazing guests.
We're thrilled that ourlistenership continues to grow
and we're very touched by thefeedback we continue to receive.
So let's celebrate.
Let's celebrate with a specialoffer you'll not want to miss.
Starting today, you'll be ableto buy these darling Bite your
Tongue coffee mugs.
They are fun and great to havearound Well, maybe to remind you
(03:06):
when to bite your tongue.
A portion of each sale willhelp cover the cost of doing the
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We hope you'll help us.
There will be a link to buy themugs on our website, on social
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Remember they'll make greatgifts too.
We hope you love them andremember each purchase will help
us keep going.
(03:28):
Now let's get on to this episode.
Well, today we're thrilled towelcome Tess Brigham, a licensed
psychotherapist, life coach andformer 20-something.
In fact, if you look at herwebsite, you'll learn a lot
(03:48):
about her 20-somethings or her20-something years, I should say
, but anyway.
In a recent article from CNBC,tess says over a decade ago,
when I first became a therapist,I never expected that five
years later, my practice wouldconsist of nearly 90%
millennials and the rest of mypatients being the parents of
millennials.
(04:08):
So hey, listeners, she's gotboth sides of the story covered
for us.
Tess has been featured in majormedia throughout the US, from
the New York Times to O Magazine, so we're pretty excited to
have her today.
I think it's going to be reallygreat, ellen, what do you say?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Oh, I totally think this is going to be great.
She's going to give us thatinside scoop on what she's
hearing from our kids, themillennial generation, and maybe
through this we can understanda bit more about them and, even
more importantly, where we mightoffer some compassion and
support and even some mentalhealth assistance for us, as
we're dealing with them andthey're dealing with us.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I have to say You're telling me and Ellen, maybe we
ought to all be discussing thatwith our new bite, your tongue
mug over a cup of coffee right?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Oh, I can't wait to get mine.
Yes, absolutely, Anyway, goahead.
So, tess, is it okay if we callyou Tess?
Oh yeah, of course.
Well, we'd love to know a bitmore about you and how you
became a therapist with apractice of mostly millennials.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, so yeah, I mean Denise mentions this my website
talks about my own 20 somethingyears, because my own 20
something years were full of youknow what am I doing with my
life and what does it all mean?
And I had my own quarter lifecrisis when I was 27.
And I didn't really know.
I worked in.
My big dream when growing upwas to work in film Hollywood
(05:40):
and that's what I worked forthroughout my entire life,
through high school and college.
I was a film major and I spentmy summers spent my summers like
interning at.
I spent an entire summerinterning at Columbia Pictures
for free, and then I interned atWarner Brothers and I you know
this was my dream.
And when I was 24, I went offto LA and to fulfill my dream
and by 27, I was pressed andexhausted and lost and confused.
(06:04):
And and that's when I had thisquarter life crisis and I ended
up leaving LA, coming back tothe Bay Area, which is where I'm
from, and having to sort ofstart all over again in some
ways, and that's when I finallydecided that I wanted to be a
therapist.
That was the thing that Ienjoyed the most about working.
I used to work with actors andthat's what I enjoyed the most
about working.
I used to work with actors andthat's what I enjoyed the most
(06:27):
was just being able to be, youknow, listen to their problems,
hear what they have to say.
I thought I was pretty good atthat part.
And then about 10 years ago, Iopened up um.
After I got licensed and allthat, I opened up a practice in
downtown San Francisco notreally knowing who was going to
show up.
And what happened was that abunch of 25, 26, 27 year olds
showed up and I was like, oh,wait a second.
(06:48):
I remember these years.
I remember how lost andconfused I was because it had
been you know over a decade.
Since I went through all ofthat, I was like, oh, wow, you
know, being a young adult in theworld today there are some
things that I could reallyrelate to with my clients that I
could understand, because Ialso spent a good chunk of my
you know 20 something years inSan Francisco and in LA and I
(07:11):
and I understood what it waslike to be in the city and and
to deal with sort of the day today part.
But as I was talking to them Irealized there was this whole
other aspect of life that I hadno idea about, that I didn't
have to deal with, which was theinternet, social media and
really the pressures that havinginformation at your fingertips
(07:33):
create, the pressure of keepingup with the Joneses and having
friends who are getting engagedand promoting themselves, and
all of this on some social mediaplatform or another, and that
constantly being in your face.
And so that's when I reallystarted to study this generation
(07:54):
.
How are millennials different?
What is their experience like?
From myself, I mean, I'm in mylate 40s, so I'm a Gen Z-er, I
mean Gen X-er, sorry.
And so I really started to tryto understand them, like, what
is it about this generation andwhat is it that they're
experiencing that no othergeneration has ever experienced
(08:15):
before?
And so that's where it reallycame from.
And then, inevitably, whatwould happen is parents would
call me because they see that Iwork with 20 somethings.
So they'd call me up becausethey were lost and confused as
well on what do I do about mykid.
And that's when I started towork with them as well.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I know this episode we want to get into the top five
or more concerns you see inyour practice.
But I want to ask a couplequestions first.
I listened to your video.
So you say all this and I'mgetting it.
Why are the 20 somethings sohard?
Have they always been so hard?
And also even the adult parentrelationship.
I think more and more of ourfriends were in our sixties are
(08:54):
talking about how to, you know,build that healthy relationship
with our adult children.
So you did a whole video on whyyoung adulthood is so hard.
Can you sort of sum that up forus?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Sure.
So it's hard because you'retrying to do two things at once
and they both inform each otherand you're really flying by the
seat of your pants.
So, on one hand, you are tryingto figure out who you are, what
you want, what life's all about, how are you going to be in the
world, what are you going tovalue and believe in?
(09:26):
Because up until this point,your values and beliefs and how
you see the world has beenheavily influenced by your
parents and how you lived andhow you grew up.
And when you're out on your own, this is your opportunity to
say like, oh, do I want to makemy career my entire life?
Do I want to sacrifice allthese things over here vacations
(09:47):
and fun and all of that for mycareer?
Making those big decisionsaround who you are and what you
value, and at the same time,you're trying to figure out what
kind of work do I want to do?
What kind of relationship do Iwant to be in?
Do I want to be in arelationship?
How do I be in a healthyrelationship?
Do I want to get married?
Do I want to have kids?
Like, where am I going to live?
(10:08):
You know what?
All of these big questions.
And the thing is is that it'sthrough understanding yourself
and your values and what youbelieve in that informs the kind
of jobs that you pick and theand the relationships that you
have in the city that you livein, but also your experiences at
your jobs and yourrelationships in the cities that
(10:28):
you live in, that actually alsoinforms your value and what you
believe in.
So you're sort of walking intothis thing a bit.
You have a sense of who you arealready, but you're walking
into this and you're like okay,I have to figure all of these
things out.
And so the thing is is thatyou're constantly like in a job
and you're like, okay, I have tofigure all of these things out.
And so the thing is is thatyou're constantly like in a job
and you're like, oh, wait aminute, it's not quite this job
(10:48):
and this is going to inform myvalues over here, and so my
values are going to change alittle bit.
Okay, and that's going tochange the job I have, right,
and so this is is that there'ssomewhere along the way there
was this myth that was createdthat said that you have to
(11:11):
figure all this out by 30.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
That's what I was going to say.
Are they rushing it Right?
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yes, and and that's the part that's really tricky is
is that this is where thesocial media stuff comes into
play, Because when I was youngerand I was looking around at my
friends, you know we were alldriving crappy cars and we were
all broke and we were, you know,all sort of flailing around.
There wasn't this thing thatwas attached.
You know, we all have ourphones attached to our hands now
(11:37):
and there wasn't this app thatI could go to, where I could
scroll through and see people myage in fabulous cars taking
fabulous vacations.
You know, doing all of thisstuff that constantly, you know,
is this reminder of I'm failingin some way, I'm behind in some
way, and I think we did.
We started creating these things30 under 30 and these lists and
(11:58):
all of that that made 30 thisweird cutoff point, and I think
that for a lot of young people,they really see that as, oh, I'm
an adult Now if I'm over 30,this weird cutoff point, and I
think that for a lot of youngpeople, they really see that as,
oh, I'm an adult now If I'mover 30, I'm officially old or I
have to figure it all out, andeverybody's worst fear is, if I
don't figure out these thingsnow.
I'm going to wake up at 50 andbe miserable.
So I got to figure this out now.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Can I just tell you, hearing you say this, that a
person at my age I don't know ifDenise is feeling this too is
it's not that different.
Like, the things that you'resaying that 20-somethings have
to negotiate are the same sortof things that
60-something-year-olds have tonegotiate, which is what's my
role in the world right now.
(12:41):
I'm not doing the same things Iused to do.
I'm not a parent as my primarysort of relationship, and many
60-year-olds are changing theirjobs, leaving their jobs and
trying to figure out what thenext stage of their life is.
And this is different for thisgeneration, I think, because 50
years ago, if you reach the ageof 62, you really were kind of
(13:04):
looking at the end of your life,and now that's not the way it
is at all.
We're sort of expected to alsohave another part of our life
that is productive andgenerative, and it's just
interesting, hearing you talkabout this, how similar the
process is for both sides.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
But I want to say I'm going to add to that, ellen, I
think some of that's true, but Ithink the difference is when
you're in your twenties you dohave this fear, sort of like
Tess said, if you don't do itnow you're going to be a failure
.
And I think we've accomplishedwhat we probably are.
You know our greatestaccomplishments up to 62, 63,
maybe Hillary Clinton, 75 andrunning for president or
(13:44):
whatever, and I always say Godshe can run for president.
I can't even tie my shoessometimes.
You know we have all those samecomparisons going on.
But I think there's a lot offear in your twenties of not
taking the right steps and thenthat's, the whole rest of your
life's going to be a failure.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Absolutely, and I do think that we gave them this
impression that somehow this is,you know my little bone to pick
with, just how we and I'mputting myself in there and the
education system sort of makeevery child think that they're
going to grow up to be a leader,when really only very few
people can be leaders, and so Ithink we have set that
(14:20):
generation up for feelingexactly like they do.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yes, yes, absolutely Well.
And the other thing I was goingto say about you know, the
difference between 20 and 60 isis that you have.
I often say there are thingsabout aging that I don't love,
right, there's a lot of them.
But one of the nicer thingsabout getting older is you have
the wisdom of time.
Right, you have the wisdom ofexperience.
And that's what a lot of timesI think, as parents especially,
(14:46):
they forget which is your kidsnever done this before they.
They don't know if they're goingto be okay.
You know you're going to beokay Cause you faced these
questions before you've gottenthrough it.
You know that you can alwaysbounce back.
You know you've been down andyou figured it out.
But when you're 25 and you'releaving a job that has defined
(15:07):
you and you don't know if you'reever going to find something
else, you don't know if youleave this relationship, if
there's going to be someone elsearound the corner.
So that's the part that's reallyhard when you're young.
You just don't, you can'treally trust that things are
going to.
You know you're going to figurethings out because you haven't
had time to trust.
(15:27):
And that's one of the biggestthings that I see.
Is this, this my clients reallystruggle with a lot of anxiety,
and that anxiety is coming fromthis fear of right.
Things aren't going to work outfor me.
Or I'm going to make a mistakealong the way, or I'm going to
fail and everything's going tofall apart.
And the answer to that isalways you have to trust.
(15:50):
You have to trust that you willfigure it out, and it's
incredibly difficult if you haveno background in it.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So what's our role as parents when we know that our
kids are feeling a lot of this,making these big decisions and
we're saying did you get a job,are you?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
dating anyone.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You know all of that.
How can we temper that and yetstill feel like we're being
supportive?
And you know, there's lots ofsituations I can look back on
not in my direct family where Isaw parents of my parents'
generation not being firm withtheir kids, enabling them
through their whole lives, thatsort of thing.
So we want to be supportive butnot enabling.
(16:30):
What role can we play inlessening this anxiety without
doing too much?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, and I think it's so hard and I always tell
people so much of this is acase-by-case basis, really based
on your kid, based on your kidand your relationship with your
kid and how they are and howthey've been throughout their
lives.
But in terms of what you can do, I think that a lot of it is
doing less of the asking youknow, asking those kinds of
(16:58):
questions Like did you meetsomeone where you know what's
going on with your career?
And asking more open-endedquestions about how you know
what's going on with your career.
And asking more open-endedquestions about how you know how
are you feeling, how are thingsgoing.
I think also, a lot of timesthere's a lot of value and we
can do it, especially on text.
There's a lot of value in justtexting your kid and saying you
(17:18):
know, I see you doing thesethings, I'm so proud of you, or
I see things are reallydifficult for you.
Just want to let you know I'mthinking about you, because kids
always want to, no matter whoyou are, what your background is
like, kids need their parentsapproval, you know, no matter
how, what your relationship iswith your parents, and that is
that's a very DNA, genetic rightpiece, because we need our
(17:42):
parents for survival we alwayshave and so we need their
approval for survival, and soyour kids are always looking for
your.
You know, your approval, yourthe stamp that that I am doing.
Okay, I am living up to whatyou, what you want and what I
want for myself, and so I thinkthat you can cheer that part on,
(18:03):
versus getting into the nittygritty of work and love.
And right, because we get verystuck in this place of if I have
a great job where I get paid alot and I do these things, if
I'm in a marriage and and I havekids, or I have a home or
whatever these other trappingsare like, if I have all that,
those things are going to makeme happy and in actuality, they
(18:26):
may or may not, Right, right,like you want to celebrate their
happiness.
We've all learned that, yeah,but they haven't, and so they're
trying to fit.
Your kids are trying to figurethat out for themselves and I
think also just telling them, Imean, I think.
I think there's a lot of value.
I think there's a lot of valuein leaders being vulnerable and
(18:47):
I think there's a lot of valuein parents being vulnerable as
well in terms of telling themlike, hey, this thing happened
to me and this is what happened.
I fell down and I failed andthen, you know, I figured it out
.
I picked myself back up, givingyour kids less of the lectures
of what you feel like theyshould be doing and a bit more
(19:09):
of this is who I.
This is my life experience,this is who I am, and I have
faith and belief that you twowill figure it out like I'm.
I'm in really enabling them andI'm solving all their problems
for them.
That's a point where I would say, that's where you want to stop,
(19:29):
stop solving their problems and, simply, you know, when you get
on the phone with them, askthem questions, which is, you
know if they're calling you andsaying, oh my God, I don't know
what to do.
You know, a pipe broke in myhouse and I don't know.
Should I call a plumber?
Do I call the landlord?
What do I do?
That's a moment where you wantto say, well, what, huh?
What do you think you should do, like, what makes the most
sense for you right now, andcoach them through solving the
(19:53):
problem on their own, becausethat's one thing that I see is I
see a lot of parents wanting to, you know, wanting to do it
differently maybe than how theirrelationship with their own
parents, and they want to havethis close relationship with
their kids.
And then they realize like, ohmy God, my kid's 25 and they're
calling me all day, every day,asking me about everything.
And so those are the moments intime where you want to start to
(20:16):
be a bit more strategic andthink, okay, I need to get them
to solve their own problems, andso that requires you to just
ask questions just questions, nostatements, no-transcript, as
opposed to the calling toolittle.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Not my kids, but go ahead, Tess.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I was going to say, yeah, what about the ones who
don't call enough?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, I don't know.
Do you have boys?
No, I have a girl and a boy,and actually my boy he would
call more, but my daughter isvery busy.
I mean she's a resident, butstill he's much more a talker.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, I mean it's funny because usually, gender
wise, what I've seen is thatusually the girls are the ones
that are calling constantly andthe boys not so much.
Again, I think it's therelationship that you have with
your parent, that you have withthem, that really determines how
much they're calling or notcalling.
But ask your question again.
I'm sorry.
(21:12):
What was your original question?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
again.
I'm sorry, I got what was your?
Original question.
Oh, I think I just said you,you answered it, I think.
Which is what about?
Do you?
Do you find that in thisgeneration it's more they're
they're wanting their parentstoo much as opposed to too
little?
And what do we do about theones who want too little?
I have one of each, so, but it,but it's different, it, it
involves different sorts ofapproaches.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Either way, yeah, I mean, listen, I only have one
child, so I don't know what it'slike to parent multiple
children.
But I think, right, it's just.
My assumption is is that you,you parent each child the way in
which they need it, right, andso it sounds like your daughter
needs a little bit.
Maybe it sounds like she's gota lot going on.
She's got a lot on her plate.
It's not that she's notthinking of you and doesn't care
(21:53):
about you.
It's just that and doesn't careabout you.
It's just that you know whenshe finally has a half hour to
herself.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
She wants to zone out and watch Netflix.
Well, and I was, and I was thatway as a young adult.
I mean, I had to call once aweek and I sort of dreaded that
call.
I was very close to my parents.
I'm not sure why I dreaded it.
I'm still trying to figure thatout.
I think it was sort of what yousaid before you always want
your' approval, you know.
Was I doing things that weregood enough?
Was I pleasing them?
And when you're on the phonewith them, you feel that more
(22:20):
because you're you know what Imean You're thinking about it
more.
I think it's important the wayyou handle those calls, and
we've discussed that a littlebit.
But let's get to some of thesethings.
You say the number one concernthat millennials have is money,
and as I look at inflation andreal estate prices and all that
sort of thing, I don't know whatI would be feeling as an
emerging adult today.
(22:41):
So what are they feeling?
How can we be supportive?
You know that sort of thing.
That's a pretty tough situationto be in right now.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It is, it really is.
And I will say I wrote thatarticle before the pandemic and
the pandemic has changed thingsa little bit.
They're even more worried,right or not?
Yes and no, it's beeninteresting, and maybe this this
might be more of a Gen Z thing,because my I started off
working with millennials.
My millennials are gettingolder, so this new generation
coming up, I have a lot of Gen Zclients as well, and so, with
(23:10):
the, what changed with thepandemic was there were a lot of
young people who had jobs thatthey weren't making a lot of
money, and then they got firedand laid off.
And then, you know, thegovernment was giving out like
$1,000 a week.
And right, we were, they werethere was.
Suddenly they were like, oh myGod, I'm making more money now
being unemployed than I ever did, working all the time, and a
lot of them, right, really savedthat money.
(23:33):
And then there was these, thestipends that we were getting
right.
And then there was these, thestipends that we were getting
right, and because they're notworking, so they get the full
benefit of the stipend, you know, they get the full amount.
A lot of them moved back homewith their parents and they
didn't have as many expenses,and so what I'm seeing is this
interesting thing of kids whothe young ones, who really
pandemic was very difficult, butfinancially they walked away
(23:54):
with a lot of money and theirparents are really anxious
because they're not really doinganything now.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
That's a real catch.
That's a real catch.
I would be pretty frustrated ifmy kid wasn't working and just
depending on that kind of thing.
But I found some of those kidsthat got those whatever stipends
and stuff spent them.
I mean, my husband was playinggolf one day and the guy he was
playing with was a tattoo artistand the tattoo artist said he
can tell every time a stimuluscheck went out there were lines
(24:21):
at the tattoo parlor.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, that'll tell you something about the job.
Well, it was supposed to be astimulus.
I mean that's true?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
No, I know.
That's exactly right.
It did what it was supposed todo.
But I don't think tattoos werewhat they had in mind.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I think they were hoping there was a line at the
grocery store Exactly, and Iknow how needed that was.
I'm not getting into apolitical conversation Parent to
do now that kids still livingat home.
I'm just going to say something.
I just had an interview withthese two young.
They're actually comedians inBrooklyn.
They have a podcast called OKStupid and we titled the episode
OK Stupid and Stupid and whatOther Things your Kids Say About
(24:56):
you.
But one of the things they saidin the interview was that all
their friends are onantidepressants and yet they
feel like they're making all theright choices in their lives.
They're doing things reallydifferent from their parents.
So I'm thinking and they talkeda lot about their friends
living at home and all that sortof thing.
So I'm wrapping up a lot ofthings in one, but what's going?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
on here A couple of different things I mean.
One is that you know the, therelationship that people have
the younger generations tomental health is very, very
different, right?
Okay, for the first time and Imean, I think the pandemic one
of the things of the pandemicthat I think has been a positive
is I think we're finallytalking about mental health,
we're finally talking about the.
(25:39):
You know that we've created asociety in a world where
technology is great.
Technology has helped ustremendously, and imagine the
pandemic without technology.
It would have been a mess,right To keep it going.
I couldn't have been able tokeep my business going.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Nobody would have.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, and so it's really positive.
But the flip side of it is andwhat we forget is is that the
expectations that we have onyoung people in the workplace
today is radically different.
So you know, my first job outof college, I worked 930 to 530.
And when 530 hit, we locked thedoors.
(26:14):
We turn off the lights.
We locked the doors and we leftand my boss had no way of
getting ahold of me unless shecalled me at home and I picked
up.
But what's happening now withmillennials and now Gen Zers is
is that when technology hit, itwas like a free for all, like
people were working nonstop,especially here in the San
Francisco Bay area, where wehave Silicon Valley Almost
(26:34):
everywhere.
Yeah, and so what was happeningand I saw this with my clients
I was like God, there's no.
You yourself, at age 25, 26,you have to figure out your own
boundaries.
Like there are no boundaries,the blinds are really blurry,
everything is really blurry forthese young people.
So what was happening is thatthe technology really overtook
(26:57):
everything and made it, reallymade this younger generation
feel like they had to be if theywanted to excel and succeed and
be a good employee, to beconstantly, constantly working.
What I've seen is is that Ithink a lot of young people
what's happened is is that withthe pandemic, and everything
(27:17):
that's happened is that they'reasking themselves these
questions of like what's my lifeall about?
Like, do I really want to betied down to my computer, you
know, in my bedroom for the restof my life?
Is this what my life's going tolook like, you know, forever
and ever?
And then they started to askthemselves these questions ever
and ever.
And then they started to askthemselves these questions.
(27:39):
But before the pandemic, youngpeople were much more willing to
go see a therapist.
Millennials were primarilyraised by baby boomers who were
very accepting if their kid hadan issue when they were young,
to take them to a therapistright.
So they were introduced totherapy very early and I had a
lot of clients that came to methat were like, yeah, I went to
therapy in my teens but then Istopped.
(28:00):
But now I'm in my 20s and I'mgoing to come back.
So they're they're veryaccepting of that and you know a
part of it's it's not we don'tpush meds on people the first
thing that they come in, but ifsomeone's really struggling and
having a hard time we recommendand I do, too, recommend
medications, and so I think thatthe thing is is that people
(28:22):
have been on these meds for along, long time.
They just never talked aboutthem.
That's true.
People have been in therapy fora long, long time.
They just never talked about itas much as they're talking
about it now.
So it seems like, oh my God,everyone's on antidepressants
and everyone's depressed andeveryone's this and everyone's
that.
It's like no, no, no.
People have been anxious for along time.
It's just these youngergenerations are willing to say
(28:45):
hey, I'm anxious, help me, pointme in the right direction.
And that's the real difference.
But they've also shown that,yes, all of this technology is
making us anxious, that we arereally struggling with our
attention span because we can'tfocus on anything for more than
a few minutes.
(29:05):
Right, if you don't hooksomeone in six seconds, they're
gone forever.
You know, I record videos forYouTube.
I gotta like make them shorterand shorter.
I'm constantly doing thingslike Instagram.
You know you want to put up areel Like I'm supposed to solve
your problems in less than 60seconds.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
And now you got TikTok, which is sort, of like
you know, bringing YouTube downto a second.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes, yes, and people are scrolling and scrolling and
scrolling, scrolling andscrolling and scrolling.
So it's hard.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
So what do you tell these kids?
I'm feeling anxious justtalking about this.
I can't even imagine what itwould be like.
I mean, I'm so glad I'm older,because if I was young and
feeling a lot of I mean, I neverclosed the door at 530.
I would work till 830 or ninein my first job, but I knew at
nine o'clock when I went home noone would call me and there was
no computer at home, so Icouldn't keep working, I
couldn't keep writing.
(29:50):
So even if it was not nine tofive, you knew you had a break
when you got home.
Now you never have a break.
So what's the answer to thisand what do you tell these kids
when it's causing so muchanxiety and life questions?
And how is the world going todeal with it?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, I tell them that they need to set those
boundaries for themselves.
They need to figure out forthemselves, like, what is it,
you know, how long do I want towork?
And setting a boundary andsetting a line for themselves.
And when we set boundaries, weit's going to feel a little
uncomfortable.
That's what happens A lot oftimes.
People set these boundaries andthen they start to feel
(30:26):
uncomfortable and then they'relike oh, no, no, that means the
boundary is wrong.
It's like no, no, it just meansthat you know it's it's a hard
boundary to set.
So, you know, if I have clientswho are constantly, it's a hard
boundary to set.
So if I have clients who areconstantly, constantly working,
it's really figuring out okay,how many hours do you want to
work, what feels reasonable,okay, this is the time, and I
will sit there with them andhelp them plan that out.
(30:47):
And then plan out like okay, soif your boss texts you, what
are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, you have a couple different.
I mean, it depends on the boss,but you have a couple of
different options, I think oneis, I think, going into the
office and setting talking toyour boss about when you text me
on the weekends.
Are you expecting me to respond?
Because that's the biggestthing.
My clients just have never evenhad a conversation with their
boss about this particular issue.
I said, you know, if you areemailing, finding out from them
saying, hey, if you're emailingme on the weekends, if you're
texting me, what's theexpectation?
Find out what is expected ofyou first, and then, once you
(31:22):
know and most of the time, whatI found is they would go and
talk to their bosses about itand the boss would be like, oh
no, I just was thinking aboutthis and I just sent it to you.
I didn't think of anything ofit.
So usually it works itself outand then they can then say well,
you know.
Then they know, they know theydon't need to respond, they know
they don't need to do anythingabout it.
(31:47):
I also think that part of it,too, is really making a
conscious choice not to checkyour work email after a certain
time.
Or if you're going to checkyour work email, you do it at
this time and you get like, ifyou get caught up in something,
you have 20 minutes to do it andthen you're done.
It has to be an emergency.
So each person's very differentabout what they need.
And then I think that if youhave a situation where you have
a boss who doesn't respect yourboundaries and and is constantly
pinging you, and then it comesback to you to figure out like
(32:11):
how much do I want this job, howimportant is this to me, to do
that, and then making thatdecision from there.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Well, you said something earlier that struck me
, which was they were feeling,in order to excel, they had to
do this, and I still think someof that exists.
The person that gets back tothe boss or is engaged over the
weekend or at nine o'clock atnight has an idea, all that sort
of thing.
There's reward for that, andit's also hard as a worker not
(32:40):
to feel that reward, becausethat's where you get your.
I mean, money is one thing, butyou also get strokes through
affirmations and that you'redoing a good job.
When the boss says, wow, everytime I text you, you're right on
it, you feel I'm doing a goodjob.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
So you almost have to change that mindset as well.
Yeah, and that's another thing.
I pre-pandemic I used to gointo companies and talk to
employees and it was alwaysreally interesting because I
would be usually there, hired totalk about, you know, mental
health in the workplace or howto de-stress, and the irony was
that it was, it was always theworkers.
It was never management wouldnever come.
And the thing was that as I waschatting with people, I knew
(33:20):
that they were in that bind,which is, you know, it's this
thing where, yes, if you work,work, work and work all the time
and you make work your life,then you're going to get
rewarded.
But at the same time, thecompany is also talking out of
the other side of their mouth,saying, but you need to take
time off, and here we're goingto hire someone to come in and
talk to you about stress.
Right, right, right, right, and.
And.
And they knew, they knew theywere in this bind.
(33:41):
And here I am telling them tolike, set boundaries and do all
this stuff.
And they know that.
So I don't disagree with you.
Yes, no-transcript the praise.
(34:26):
But careers are a marathon, nota sprint.
You will get burned out.
I've seen it time and timeagain and companies have to
realize that that if they, Ifthey want to create long-lasting
employees which is what isalways cheaper and more
effective in the end if you wantto keep and retain your
employees, then it requires theleaders, the management, to
(34:50):
change this way of thinking andthis way of being and to start
to change and modify for theseyounger generations.
But the problem is is that whenI say that to older generations
, they don't like that.
No, they don't at all Because,much like myself, I trust me,
that was just that first jobthat I left at 530.
(35:10):
Once.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I moved to Hollywood, everything changed.
Yeah, you worked your bottomoff.
Yes, my dad, you know, drilledinto me first to be there last
to leave.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yes, and so that's.
The thing is is that that wasfor a long, long time.
That was the secret to success,right, which was you work
really hard and you, you knowyou can buy things.
But the problem now is is thatit doesn't work like that
anymore.
Back in 1950, the averageAmerican had a 90% chance of
(35:40):
out-earning their parent.
Today, you have about, I think,less than 50% chance.
That's huge.
So what's happening withmillennials and Gen Zers is this
the American dream has changed,because in your generation and
in my generation, we were toldif you work hard, you go to
college, you find a career.
(36:00):
You first one in, last one out.
If you do all of that.
You can have a home, women,right, we can have it all.
You can have a home, you canhave retirement.
You can have all of thesethings.
All of this will be given toyou.
The problem is that you're notgoing to have those
(36:41):
no-transcript.
And so, yes, I am sorry, if youare a manager at a company and
you were browbeaten by yourbosses when you were younger and
you had to work your way up,and now you're sitting on the
top and now you can't treatpeople poorly.
You have to like.
You know what they always sayis oh my God, I have to kowtow
to these.
(37:01):
You know snowflakes, right,right.
And it's like you talk a lotabout the reputation that these
kids have and you really don'tthink they are what they have
the reputation of.
Yes, and I think that's that's.
The problem is, is that theminute these older generations
here like, hey, maybe you shouldapproach it from this place or
be vulnerable or understand itor change your behavior, that
(37:24):
mentality of but I worked sohard to get to where I am, why
should I change?
They need to change, and what Ithink is really unique and
special about millennials andGen Zers is they're sort of
these generations that aresaying, no, we're not going to
do that, because not only are wenot going to get a pension at
(37:44):
the end of our jobs, not onlyare we unsure of all of these
things, we have ways of makingmoney now that were not possible
before, and we don't need you.
That's true too, you know,that's the thing.
It's funny, because when I wasin Hollywood and working
constantly like the thing was,the only way to work up was you
had to be someone's assistantand you had to be someone's
(38:04):
assistant.
You had to put up with theircrap and you had to put up with
their behavior and how theytreated you, to get crumbs from
them to teach you how to do thisjob that you eventually wanted
to do, right.
But the thing is, nowadays,kids can just they just go on
YouTube, I can just figure thisout, I can set up a small
business, I can do this, I cando that.
And being an entrepreneur issuch a big thing now with social
(38:27):
media and all of that, thatthere's so many young people
that are like, well, I'm notgoing to put up with that, like
why should I?
I'll just go and do my ownthing, I mean.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I have to say, though , that that's a very small
percentage of kids.
I mean, most kids are not goingto be entrepreneurs.
Most of us are going to have tobe assistants in something to
start out in.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Well, in some way, ellen, but what she's saying and
I see this a lot it's sort ofthis whole gig economy.
They may not be entrepreneurs,but they're putting together
five or six different thingsthat are making them the same
salary that they were making.
Now, someone remember when weinterviewed those two young
adults from Adultish and wetalked about that a little bit?
They said, yes, that's true,but is it what was the word they
(39:06):
use?
Will it stay?
You know, is it what was theword they used?
You remember, ellen?
They said you know, it mightjust be short lived.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yeah, I mean yes, and that's true, but I think it
sort of sells something.
I mean, eventually people dohave to, you know, plant
tomatoes and have stores andthings like that.
Like there's it's sort of Idon't know.
I think it feeds their thatsense of anxiety that, oh, I'm
going to be an entrepreneur andif I'm not, then I'm a failure
at that too.
I mean, I think there are somekids who will be successful at
(39:36):
that, but the vast majority arestill going to have to take
those jobs that you know.
I mean they're not everybodycan be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I agree, and then I also worry.
I mean, I have a son who's anentrepreneur and I worry about
his 401k insurance, disabilityinsurance they forget about all
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yes, we do.
Listen, ellen, I agree with youthat not everyone can be an
entrepreneur, but the main thingis is that I just remember when
I was younger, in my twenties,I did not question any, anything
of what I you know, any of this.
I didn't question that, andpart of why I didn't question
(40:15):
was there were no other.
You know, the path was so clear, right, and what happened with
the Internet and the wayinformation is seen?
Because young people don't seeinformation the same way that I
know I see information, becauseonce upon a time you had to work
to get information.
You had to work to getknowledge and experience from
(40:37):
somebody, and the world that welive in today is anyone become
an expert in something withoutreally ever having to work for
it or find it or find thatknowledge right?
Everything is so readilyavailable to people that
information has changedconsiderably, and so that's one
(40:59):
of the things that I see is whenmillennials and Gen Zers, they
come into the workplace, youknow they're not.
They're not looking at theirbosses as that same thing of oh,
I'm going to get informationfrom this person, I want to take
these crumbs from you.
You know they're looking therebecause they have information.
They're looking for otherthings.
They're looking for arelationship and mentorship,
much more than I think I everdid, and so so much has changed
(41:24):
in that way and I don't know.
It will be interesting to seewhat happens with Gen Zers, like
what they end up doing, right,because we have this great
resignation and I see thisconstantly and the big thing is
a lot of my clients.
They don't like service jobs,any kind of waitressing or
bartending or any of that.
They're hard to fill these days.
(41:46):
And that is an area that a lotof young people are sort of
willing to make other sacrificesto not have to take those kinds
of jobs.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
So somebody's got to take those jobs.
Who's going to take them?
Do you think I don't know?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I mean someone will when you answer that yeah, when
you answer that I mean.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
it's interesting though, because it's like are we
all just going to not haverestaurants anymore?
Speaker 1 (42:09):
It's not just restaurants.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
You know, like nobody wants to be a waitress instead
of, I mean, my feeling is that Imean we should honor those
professions.
Yes, of course I mean.
My feeling is that I mean weshould honor those professions
as opposed to, you know, look atthem with sort of disdain.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
But that, I think, is a generational difference that
we're talking about, Right,we've been talking about money a
lot and we don't have a wholelot more time, so I'd really
like to hear from you, tess,what other things do you think
are on the top of mind of thestruggles with young adults?
I mean, I listed a few things.
There seems to be a lot ofmother-daughter conflict,
(42:45):
unresolved childhood conflicts.
Anything that comes up in yourpractice where you see these are
things that you could sharewith our listeners.
That they should pay attentionto Boundaries is another big one
.
Do they come very much talkingabout my mom's driving me crazy
or my dad's driving me crazy?
Or how do I separate?
What are some of the top thingsyou?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
hear adult hood, when you really start to understand
yourself and understand youropinions, and so what a lot of
(43:21):
is.
It's a lot of parsing out foryoung people of is this what I
believe or is this what myparents believe and told me I
should believe?
Right, and that's a big thingBecause, especially when it
comes around, a lot of parentssaid to their kids like become
an accountant, become a lawyer,become this, become that, you'll
always have a job.
It's a good, it's a good living.
You need to work hard.
(43:41):
And a lot of people went outand did that.
They became lawyers.
They, you know, they becameaccountants and then they're
four or five years into the joband they hate it.
You know they're reallymiserable.
So a lot of it is trying tounderstand for themselves with
their parents.
Like how do I forge my own paththat is different than what I
was taught and what I was told?
(44:02):
How do I?
How do I do that?
But there's, there's that partabout it and it's also.
And then, how do I make?
How do I declare and say I wantto do this and not disappoint
my parents or not freak out myparents, because you're younger
and you, you're an adult now andyou can see things a lot
clearer.
(44:24):
A lot of times young people areable to sort of look back at
their parents, whether theirparents got divorced or mom or
dad had an affair or they had astep-parent that they didn't
like.
You can go back as an adult nowand look at your childhood and
look at those things and you'retrying to understand your
parents and why they did whatthey did and understand your
relationship.
So there is that piece of it ofkids, you know, wanting answers
(44:46):
from their parents of like, whydid you get divorced and why
are why?
You know, why did you move orwhy did you leave, or or any of
these things.
So it's a lot of it's a lot ofkind of trying to understand
yourself through your parents.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
That makes so much sense and I think what it opens
up to me is, I think, for ourlisteners being willing to talk
about those things.
I mean, my daughter saidsomething to me recently.
I mean, you know, she's afourth year resident, she's
working her buns off and shesays, you know, so-and-so just
left early the other day andsaid she was worn out.
And she said, you know, mom, Iwish I could do that, but you
(45:21):
just drilled into me not to quit, you know, and I felt so bad.
I mean, I didn't feel bad and Iunderstood what I drilled into
her, but I was glad she washaving those thoughts and
thinking for herself in that way.
So I think being able to talkabout it is probably important,
do you agree?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
And I think the way you handledit was very good, because I
think sometimes there's this oneof this want to be defensive of
, yes, you shouldn't quit, right, you know I taught you that and
that's great.
And I too, listen, I, I haveparents who, um, very much
taught myself and my sister.
You know work, you know workhard and you know excel and and
(45:56):
all of that, and I too havethose feelings where it's like
God, I wish you told me to takea vacation more.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Right.
Well, you know, honey, she saysto me when I started ballet,
you wouldn't let me quit when.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
and I had no thoughts that I was like that, I thought
she enjoyed everything she wasdoing you know I'm going to just
intercede here, that you knowthis is not necessarily shameful
to not be able to say.
You know what I'm going to pushthrough this, I mean that's why
people do their own stuffinstead of walks around the
block.
I mean, there's a balance inhere and I think we tend to go
(46:25):
one direction or the other.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
And that's also like.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Katie shouldn't feel bad because she's not that other
person.
That other person is a separateperson with different goals,
different values.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
But you know, Ellen, I was glad she was thinking
about it and making decisionsfor herself.
She'll never be a quitterthat's not her personality but
I'm glad she's thinking aboutherself.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
And I think that what I was going to say was your
reaction to her, was it doesn'tsound like you got defensive and
tried to, you know, put yourstand or sort of apologize?
I think it's important to sortof just take it in.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Well, I did apologize a little bit, no no, no, she
liked ballet, she liked it.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
I can tell you this with 100% certainty.
I'm just kidding, and if youhadn't, I mean that's the other
side of the coin, is that?
Speaker 1 (47:19):
you.
You know, had you allowed herto quit a lot of things, you'd
have a different you know adifferent.
You're right, there's a balance, there's absolutely everything
they're saying is right, you'reright, but I'm sure those are
the exact kind of things theytalked, tess, about.
That's my guess, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Being a parent myself , and I'll always say I always
say this to my clients or towhomever it's like the parents
aren't the enemy when I'm in theroom with them.
Their parents are not theirenemy.
I'm a mother, I know what it'slike, and you?
There is no way you get throughparenting unscathed, no way.
It is so hard, so, so hard, andso I think the best thing that
you can do for your kids is tobe able to write that was, that
(47:54):
was your daughter's experience.
Her experience and her mind wasI wanted to quit ballet and mom
didn't.
So it's not about you defendingthat experience or apologizing
for it or anything.
It was just saying you know, Ihear you, you know, I see you, I
hear you and and I you know,because in the end, I think that
kids just want to be seen bytheir parents for who they are
(48:16):
and accepted for who they are.
Right, that's the core of it.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
We hear that all the time from the young adults we
interview.
Whatever the situation, theyalways hear their parents' voice
in their minds.
Okay, we've been going onreally long here and we've got
to wrap up, but I promised Iwould ask this one listener
question test and it's a littlebit in regards to money.
So I'm going to ask thisquestion and then we're going to
ask you to give us our fewtakeaways for our listenership,
unless, ellen, do you haveanything else before I do this?
Speaker 3 (48:42):
No, because I love this question.
I'm glad you're getting to itbecause I actually know a few
people are having troublegetting their kids out of the
house.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah.
So the listener question wasthey have a young adult daughter
.
So she and her husband havebeen helping their young adult
daughter in the last few yearsafter college to help her get
her feet on the ground, and nowshe's moved in with her
boyfriend and the parents feelthat their support should stop
but don't know how to approachit with their adult child.
What should their steps be orhow would you address this?
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Well, I think, first, the parents have to get on the
same page about what they feelcomfortable doing.
Like, you know, if they're bothon the same page of we really
need to, we don't want tosupport her any longer then what
I would do is I would go to herand I would put together a plan
.
You know you don't want tospring it on them like we're
cutting you off, but you, youwant to be able to go to her and
(49:32):
say hey, you know, we've beensupporting you, we're we feel
like we've done enough, we can'tdo this anymore.
However, you want to phrase itand just say okay, so we're
going to put together a plan forthe next six months, you know,
and we can do it in a couple ofdifferent ways.
We can slowly stop, 10 by 10%each month, or every, you know,
whatever it is.
Um, we can slowly give you lessand less money, or we can, or
(49:55):
we can say you know, at the endof the six months we're giving
you six months warning, we'regoing to stop supporting you at
all.
I would go and I would just saythis is the plan, this is what
we're doing.
And you know, if your kid comesback at you and being like, oh
my God, I can't.
I can't put it back on them andsay, okay, you need to tell us
exactly where.
(50:16):
If you want our financialsupport, you need to tell us
what you need specifically andwhere it's going to go.
We're not going to just blanketgive you money, because I have
a lot of.
I hear this all the time, likekids get on the cell phone,
family plan, right, and theparents just keep paying for it.
Or sometimes they'll pay forinsurance or health insurance
because they're worried about it.
(50:36):
That's why I'm saying you andyour partner have to kind of get
on the same page of listen.
We want to cut her off, butwe're worried about the health
insurance.
Let's just keep paying that.
We'll tell her this.
Right, the two of you want tomake sure that you know what you
want and then just go and tellthem like this is what's going
to happen.
And if you, if something needsto be different, you need to
come back to me and tell us whatis the plan and what is your
(51:01):
plan for eventually becomingfinancially free.
You know, like you can't, wecan't, we're not going to pay
this bill in perpetuity.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Right, you know.
I love the way you said thatyou know, because I had a
situation, um and it was againthe generation before mine where
the parents basically supportedtheir young adult child through
his marriage, with the kidsnever asking where that money
was going to, and I thought, mygosh, the parents are, like you
know, giving them everything.
So I love the idea of sayingyou know, if you continue to
(51:31):
need it, let us know where it'sgoing.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good, that's a good phrase, good
.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
So, anyway, I really appreciate that.
Now, tess, before we end, wealways ask for a few takeaways.
You're talking to our adultparents.
What are the two or threethings that you really want our
audience to remember and thinkabout?
Speaker 2 (51:48):
So if you have a child who is calling you
constantly, wanting you to solveevery single problem you don't
know how to stop, then it's timefor you to set a boundary, and
the easiest way of doing that isstop solving their problems.
And when you get on the phoneor text, you only ask questions.
You always put things back onthem.
How do you think you should dothat?
(52:09):
What do you think you shouldsay?
Number two is be aware that theworld is very, very different
now and that your kids are goingthrough something that is very
different, even if it feels like, hey, it's the same stuff I
went through, it is all new tothem.
It is all new to them theydon't know yet.
So when someone doesn't know,what do you do?
(52:31):
Do you shame them?
No, you recognize andunderstand it and help guide
them through.
And that, finally, the corething is your kid, your children
, just want you to love them andaccept them for who they are.
So always, when you walk intoany difficult conversation or
(52:51):
get on the phone with them oranything, just keep that in mind
.
Like, my child wants me to lovethem and recognize them for who
they are today, and it may notbe what you wanted or what you
planned, but that's being aparent, yeah that's such an
important thing to remember.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
That's the hard part too, about being a parent.
Tess, this has been wonderful.
I think what you're doing andthe audience that you've
gravitated to is wonderful.
You'll help so many people andI'm glad you had aitated to is
wonderful.
You'll help so many people andI'm glad you had a terrible time
in LA, yes, so, thank you so somuch for joining us today.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
So that's a wrap.
Thanks, tess, so much for yourinsight into our young adult
children and some of thestruggles that they face that we
might not quite understand.
I think we all know that everygeneration has their own hurdles
and, as Tess said, in the endit's really about loving our
kids for who they are.
That really seems like just thedefinition of parenting.
(53:58):
After the interview I thought,thought about my father, who
loved his job so much he wasable to involve all of us in his
job and it kind of became afamily affair In the end.
I'm glad he drilled into me thevalue of hard work.
I do believe it's still veryimportant.
Anyway, learn more about Tessand her practice by visiting
(54:20):
TessBringhamCoachingcom.
That's Tess T-E-S-S, brigham,b-r-i-g-h-a-m coachingcom.
She also offers a number ofbooks, like A Radically
Practical Guide to Liking your20s and some online courses to
help young adults find theirtrue selves, set goals and make
(54:44):
some of those important lifedecisions.
Go to her website and you'llfind a link to her courses and
her books.
It might be something you'llwant to share with your young
adult children.
Thanks again to Connie Fisher,our audio engineer, and to you
all of our listeners.
Check out our social mediasites and you'll find the link
to buy our new Bite your Tonguemug.
(55:05):
Let's spread the word and,finally, remember, sometimes you
just have to bite your tongue.
This conversation will keep usgoing.
(55:28):
Just go to our website atbiteyourtonguepodcastcom and
select support us.
You'll find lots of ways youcan help keep us going.
So, thanks, so much.
Thanks for listening.
And remember, sometimes you sayit, kirsten, sometimes you just
have to bite your tongue.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
Thank you.
Hey everyone, here's another rewind.
We really think you'll lovethis one.
This one is with Tess Brigham.
She's a licensedpsychotherapist and life coach,
but she's also known as themillennial therapist.
She interviews so many youngmillennials and takes us behind
the scenes to really understandwhat are the things facing our
(00:23):
adult children today, to reallyunderstand what are the things
facing our adult children today.
She's been featured in so muchof the media and she also did
another episode with us, aquestion-answer episode.
You can go back and listen tothat too, but this one really
lets us peek behind the curtain.
We hope you like it so let'sget started.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
if you've got a kid, where you're really, I'm really
enabling them and I'm solvingall their problems for them,
that's where you want to stopsolving their problems and
simply, when you get on thephone with them, ask them
questions, which is they'recalling you and saying, oh my
god, I don't know what to do.
A pipe broke in my house and Idon't know.
Should I call a plumber?
Do I call the landlord?
(01:08):
What do I do?
That's a moment where you wantto say, well, what, huh?
What do you think you should do?
What makes the most sense foryou right now?
And coach them through solvingthe problem on their own.
That's one thing that I see is Isee a lot of parents wanting to
, you know, wanting to do itdifferently, maybe, than how
their relationship with theirown parents and they want to
have this close relationshipwith their kids, and then they
(01:29):
realize like, oh my God, mykid's 25 and they're calling me
all day, every day, asking meabout everything.
And so those are the moments intime where you want to start to
be a bit more strategic andthink, okay, I need to get them
to solve their own problem, andso that requires you to just ask
questions, just questions, nostatements.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Hello everyone, I'm Denise Gorin.
Welcome to Bite your Tongue thepodcast.
Thanks for joining us as wespeak with experts, authors,
parents and even young adults toexplore the transition from
parenting our young children tobuilding healthy relationships
with our now adults.
Hopefully we'll grow together,learn about ourselves, our young
(02:17):
adults and, of course, when tobite our tongues.
We are so happy you're with us,so let's get started.
Bite our tongues.
We are so happy you're with us,so let's get started.
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of Bite your
Tongue the podcast.
It's hard to believe, but it'sbeen just about one year since
we dropped our first episode.
We're so grateful to all of you, our listeners and, of course,
(02:41):
also to our amazing guests.
We're thrilled that ourlistenership continues to grow
and we're very touched by thefeedback we continue to receive.
So let's celebrate.
Let's celebrate with a specialoffer you'll not want to miss.
Starting today, you'll be ableto buy these darling Bite your
Tongue coffee mugs.
They are fun and great to havearound Well, maybe to remind you
(03:06):
when to bite your tongue.
A portion of each sale willhelp cover the cost of doing the
podcast, so you'll get a greatmug and we can keep on going.
We hope you'll help us.
There will be a link to buy themugs on our website, on social
media and in all of our episodenotes.
Remember they'll make greatgifts too.
We hope you love them andremember each purchase will help
us keep going.
(03:28):
Now let's get on to this episode.
Well, today we're thrilled towelcome Tess Brigham, a licensed
psychotherapist, life coach andformer 20-something.
In fact, if you look at herwebsite, you'll learn a lot
(03:48):
about her 20-somethings or her20-something years, I should say
, but anyway.
In a recent article from CNBC,tess says over a decade ago,
when I first became a therapist,I never expected that five
years later, my practice wouldconsist of nearly 90%
millennials and the rest of mypatients being the parents of
millennials.
(04:08):
So hey, listeners, she's gotboth sides of the story covered
for us.
Tess has been featured in majormedia throughout the US, from
the New York Times to O Magazine, so we're pretty excited to
have her today.
I think it's going to be reallygreat, ellen, what do you say?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Oh, I totally think this is going to be great.
She's going to give us thatinside scoop on what she's
hearing from our kids, themillennial generation, and maybe
through this we can understanda bit more about them and, even
more importantly, where we mightoffer some compassion and
support and even some mentalhealth assistance for us, as
we're dealing with them andthey're dealing with us.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I have to say You're telling me and Ellen, maybe we
ought to all be discussing thatwith our new bite, your tongue
mug over a cup of coffee right?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Oh, I can't wait to get mine.
Yes, absolutely, Anyway, goahead.
So, tess, is it okay if we callyou Tess?
Oh yeah, of course.
Well, we'd love to know a bitmore about you and how you
became a therapist with apractice of mostly millennials.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, so yeah, I mean Denise mentions this my website
talks about my own 20 somethingyears, because my own 20
something years were full of youknow what am I doing with my
life and what does it all mean?
And I had my own quarter lifecrisis when I was 27.
And I didn't really know.
I worked in.
My big dream when growing upwas to work in film Hollywood
(05:40):
and that's what I worked forthroughout my entire life,
through high school and college.
I was a film major and I spentmy summers spent my summers like
interning at.
I spent an entire summerinterning at Columbia Pictures
for free, and then I interned atWarner Brothers and I you know
this was my dream.
And when I was 24, I went offto LA and to fulfill my dream
and by 27, I was pressed andexhausted and lost and confused.
(06:04):
And and that's when I had thisquarter life crisis and I ended
up leaving LA, coming back tothe Bay Area, which is where I'm
from, and having to sort ofstart all over again in some
ways, and that's when I finallydecided that I wanted to be a
therapist.
That was the thing that Ienjoyed the most about working.
I used to work with actors andthat's what I enjoyed the most
about working.
I used to work with actors andthat's what I enjoyed the most
(06:27):
was just being able to be, youknow, listen to their problems,
hear what they have to say.
I thought I was pretty good atthat part.
And then about 10 years ago, Iopened up um.
After I got licensed and allthat, I opened up a practice in
downtown San Francisco notreally knowing who was going to
show up.
And what happened was that abunch of 25, 26, 27 year olds
showed up and I was like, oh,wait a second.
(06:48):
I remember these years.
I remember how lost andconfused I was because it had
been you know over a decade.
Since I went through all ofthat, I was like, oh, wow, you
know, being a young adult in theworld today there are some
things that I could reallyrelate to with my clients that I
could understand, because Ialso spent a good chunk of my
you know 20 something years inSan Francisco and in LA and I
(07:11):
and I understood what it waslike to be in the city and and
to deal with sort of the day today part.
But as I was talking to them Irealized there was this whole
other aspect of life that I hadno idea about, that I didn't
have to deal with, which was theinternet, social media and
really the pressures that havinginformation at your fingertips
(07:33):
create, the pressure of keepingup with the Joneses and having
friends who are getting engagedand promoting themselves, and
all of this on some social mediaplatform or another, and that
constantly being in your face.
And so that's when I reallystarted to study this generation
(07:54):
.
How are millennials different?
What is their experience like?
From myself, I mean, I'm in mylate 40s, so I'm a Gen Z-er, I
mean Gen X-er, sorry.
And so I really started to tryto understand them, like, what
is it about this generation andwhat is it that they're
experiencing that no othergeneration has ever experienced
(08:15):
before?
And so that's where it reallycame from.
And then, inevitably, whatwould happen is parents would
call me because they see that Iwork with 20 somethings.
So they'd call me up becausethey were lost and confused as
well on what do I do about mykid.
And that's when I started towork with them as well.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I know this episode we want to get into the top five
or more concerns you see inyour practice.
But I want to ask a couplequestions first.
I listened to your video.
So you say all this and I'mgetting it.
Why are the 20 somethings sohard?
Have they always been so hard?
And also even the adult parentrelationship.
I think more and more of ourfriends were in our sixties are
(08:54):
talking about how to, you know,build that healthy relationship
with our adult children.
So you did a whole video on whyyoung adulthood is so hard.
Can you sort of sum that up forus?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Sure.
So it's hard because you'retrying to do two things at once
and they both inform each otherand you're really flying by the
seat of your pants.
So, on one hand, you are tryingto figure out who you are, what
you want, what life's all about, how are you going to be in the
world, what are you going tovalue and believe in?
(09:26):
Because up until this point,your values and beliefs and how
you see the world has beenheavily influenced by your
parents and how you lived andhow you grew up.
And when you're out on your own, this is your opportunity to
say like, oh, do I want to makemy career my entire life?
Do I want to sacrifice allthese things over here vacations
(09:47):
and fun and all of that for mycareer?
Making those big decisionsaround who you are and what you
value, and at the same time,you're trying to figure out what
kind of work do I want to do?
What kind of relationship do Iwant to be in?
Do I want to be in arelationship?
How do I be in a healthyrelationship?
Do I want to get married?
Do I want to have kids?
Like, where am I going to live?
(10:08):
You know what?
All of these big questions.
And the thing is is that it'sthrough understanding yourself
and your values and what youbelieve in that informs the kind
of jobs that you pick and theand the relationships that you
have in the city that you livein, but also your experiences at
your jobs and yourrelationships in the cities that
(10:28):
you live in, that actually alsoinforms your value and what you
believe in.
So you're sort of walking intothis thing a bit.
You have a sense of who you arealready, but you're walking
into this and you're like okay,I have to figure all of these
things out.
And so the thing is is thatyou're constantly like in a job
and you're like, okay, I have tofigure all of these things out.
And so the thing is is thatyou're constantly like in a job
and you're like, oh, wait aminute, it's not quite this job
(10:48):
and this is going to inform myvalues over here, and so my
values are going to change alittle bit.
Okay, and that's going tochange the job I have, right,
and so this is is that there'ssomewhere along the way there
was this myth that was createdthat said that you have to
(11:11):
figure all this out by 30.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
That's what I was going to say.
Are they rushing it Right?
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yes, and and that's the part that's really tricky is
is that this is where thesocial media stuff comes into
play, Because when I was youngerand I was looking around at my
friends, you know we were alldriving crappy cars and we were
all broke and we were, you know,all sort of flailing around.
There wasn't this thing thatwas attached.
You know, we all have ourphones attached to our hands now
(11:37):
and there wasn't this app thatI could go to, where I could
scroll through and see people myage in fabulous cars taking
fabulous vacations.
You know, doing all of thisstuff that constantly, you know,
is this reminder of I'm failingin some way, I'm behind in some
way, and I think we did.
We started creating these things30 under 30 and these lists and
(11:58):
all of that that made 30 thisweird cutoff point, and I think
that for a lot of young people,they really see that as, oh, I'm
an adult Now if I'm over 30,this weird cutoff point, and I
think that for a lot of youngpeople, they really see that as,
oh, I'm an adult now If I'mover 30, I'm officially old or I
have to figure it all out, andeverybody's worst fear is, if I
don't figure out these thingsnow.
I'm going to wake up at 50 andbe miserable.
So I got to figure this out now.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Can I just tell you, hearing you say this, that a
person at my age I don't know ifDenise is feeling this too is
it's not that different.
Like, the things that you'resaying that 20-somethings have
to negotiate are the same sortof things that
60-something-year-olds have tonegotiate, which is what's my
role in the world right now.
(12:41):
I'm not doing the same things Iused to do.
I'm not a parent as my primarysort of relationship, and many
60-year-olds are changing theirjobs, leaving their jobs and
trying to figure out what thenext stage of their life is.
And this is different for thisgeneration, I think, because 50
years ago, if you reach the ageof 62, you really were kind of
(13:04):
looking at the end of your life,and now that's not the way it
is at all.
We're sort of expected to alsohave another part of our life
that is productive andgenerative, and it's just
interesting, hearing you talkabout this, how similar the
process is for both sides.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
But I want to say I'm going to add to that, ellen, I
think some of that's true, but Ithink the difference is when
you're in your twenties you dohave this fear, sort of like
Tess said, if you don't do itnow you're going to be a failure
.
And I think we've accomplishedwhat we probably are.
You know our greatestaccomplishments up to 62, 63,
maybe Hillary Clinton, 75 andrunning for president or
(13:44):
whatever, and I always say Godshe can run for president.
I can't even tie my shoessometimes.
You know we have all those samecomparisons going on.
But I think there's a lot offear in your twenties of not
taking the right steps and thenthat's, the whole rest of your
life's going to be a failure.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Absolutely, and I do think that we gave them this
impression that somehow this is,you know my little bone to pick
with, just how we and I'mputting myself in there and the
education system sort of makeevery child think that they're
going to grow up to be a leader,when really only very few
people can be leaders, and so Ithink we have set that
(14:20):
generation up for feelingexactly like they do.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yes, yes, absolutely Well.
And the other thing I was goingto say about you know, the
difference between 20 and 60 isis that you have.
I often say there are thingsabout aging that I don't love,
right, there's a lot of them.
But one of the nicer thingsabout getting older is you have
the wisdom of time.
Right, you have the wisdom ofexperience.
And that's what a lot of timesI think, as parents especially,
(14:46):
they forget which is your kidsnever done this before they.
They don't know if they're goingto be okay.
You know you're going to beokay Cause you faced these
questions before you've gottenthrough it.
You know that you can alwaysbounce back.
You know you've been down andyou figured it out.
But when you're 25 and you'releaving a job that has defined
(15:07):
you and you don't know if you'reever going to find something
else, you don't know if youleave this relationship, if
there's going to be someone elsearound the corner.
So that's the part that's reallyhard when you're young.
You just don't, you can'treally trust that things are
going to.
You know you're going to figurethings out because you haven't
had time to trust.
(15:27):
And that's one of the biggestthings that I see.
Is this, this my clients reallystruggle with a lot of anxiety,
and that anxiety is coming fromthis fear of right.
Things aren't going to work outfor me.
Or I'm going to make a mistakealong the way, or I'm going to
fail and everything's going tofall apart.
And the answer to that isalways you have to trust.
(15:50):
You have to trust that you willfigure it out, and it's
incredibly difficult if you haveno background in it.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So what's our role as parents when we know that our
kids are feeling a lot of this,making these big decisions and
we're saying did you get a job,are you?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
dating anyone.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You know all of that.
How can we temper that and yetstill feel like we're being
supportive?
And you know, there's lots ofsituations I can look back on
not in my direct family where Isaw parents of my parents'
generation not being firm withtheir kids, enabling them
through their whole lives, thatsort of thing.
So we want to be supportive butnot enabling.
(16:30):
What role can we play inlessening this anxiety without
doing too much?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, and I think it's so hard and I always tell
people so much of this is acase-by-case basis, really based
on your kid, based on your kidand your relationship with your
kid and how they are and howthey've been throughout their
lives.
But in terms of what you can do, I think that a lot of it is
doing less of the asking youknow, asking those kinds of
(16:58):
questions Like did you meetsomeone where you know what's
going on with your career?
And asking more open-endedquestions about how you know
what's going on with your career.
And asking more open-endedquestions about how you know how
are you feeling, how are thingsgoing.
I think also, a lot of timesthere's a lot of value and we
can do it, especially on text.
There's a lot of value in justtexting your kid and saying you
(17:18):
know, I see you doing thesethings, I'm so proud of you, or
I see things are reallydifficult for you.
Just want to let you know I'mthinking about you, because kids
always want to, no matter whoyou are, what your background is
like, kids need their parentsapproval, you know, no matter
how, what your relationship iswith your parents, and that is
that's a very DNA, genetic rightpiece, because we need our
(17:42):
parents for survival we alwayshave and so we need their
approval for survival, and soyour kids are always looking for
your.
You know, your approval, yourthe stamp that that I am doing.
Okay, I am living up to whatyou, what you want and what I
want for myself, and so I thinkthat you can cheer that part on,
(18:03):
versus getting into the nittygritty of work and love.
And right, because we get verystuck in this place of if I have
a great job where I get paid alot and I do these things, if
I'm in a marriage and and I havekids, or I have a home or
whatever these other trappingsare like, if I have all that,
those things are going to makeme happy and in actuality, they
(18:26):
may or may not, Right, right,like you want to celebrate their
happiness.
We've all learned that, yeah,but they haven't, and so they're
trying to fit.
Your kids are trying to figurethat out for themselves and I
think also just telling them, Imean, I think.
I think there's a lot of value.
I think there's a lot of valuein leaders being vulnerable and
(18:47):
I think there's a lot of valuein parents being vulnerable as
well in terms of telling themlike, hey, this thing happened
to me and this is what happened.
I fell down and I failed andthen, you know, I figured it out
.
I picked myself back up, givingyour kids less of the lectures
of what you feel like theyshould be doing and a bit more
(19:09):
of this is who I.
This is my life experience,this is who I am, and I have
faith and belief that you twowill figure it out like I'm.
I'm in really enabling them andI'm solving all their problems
for them.
That's a point where I would say, that's where you want to stop,
(19:29):
stop solving their problems and, simply, you know, when you get
on the phone with them, askthem questions, which is, you
know if they're calling you andsaying, oh my God, I don't know
what to do.
You know, a pipe broke in myhouse and I don't know.
Should I call a plumber?
Do I call the landlord?
What do I do?
That's a moment where you wantto say, well, what, huh?
What do you think you should do, like, what makes the most
sense for you right now, andcoach them through solving the
(19:53):
problem on their own, becausethat's one thing that I see is I
see a lot of parents wanting to, you know, wanting to do it
differently maybe than how theirrelationship with their own
parents, and they want to havethis close relationship with
their kids.
And then they realize like, ohmy God, my kid's 25 and they're
calling me all day, every day,asking me about everything.
And so those are the moments intime where you want to start to
(20:16):
be a bit more strategic andthink, okay, I need to get them
to solve their own problems, andso that requires you to just
ask questions just questions, nostatements, no-transcript, as
opposed to the calling toolittle.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Not my kids, but go ahead, Tess.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I was going to say, yeah, what about the ones who
don't call enough?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, I don't know.
Do you have boys?
No, I have a girl and a boy,and actually my boy he would
call more, but my daughter isvery busy.
I mean she's a resident, butstill he's much more a talker.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, I mean it's funny because usually, gender
wise, what I've seen is thatusually the girls are the ones
that are calling constantly andthe boys not so much.
Again, I think it's therelationship that you have with
your parent, that you have withthem, that really determines how
much they're calling or notcalling.
But ask your question again.
I'm sorry.
(21:12):
What was your original question?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
again.
I'm sorry, I got what was your?
Original question.
Oh, I think I just said you,you answered it, I think.
Which is what about?
Do you?
Do you find that in thisgeneration it's more they're
they're wanting their parentstoo much as opposed to too
little?
And what do we do about theones who want too little?
I have one of each, so, but it,but it's different, it, it
involves different sorts ofapproaches.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Either way, yeah, I mean, listen, I only have one
child, so I don't know what it'slike to parent multiple
children.
But I think, right, it's just.
My assumption is is that you,you parent each child the way in
which they need it, right, andso it sounds like your daughter
needs a little bit.
Maybe it sounds like she's gota lot going on.
She's got a lot on her plate.
It's not that she's notthinking of you and doesn't care
(21:53):
about you.
It's just that and doesn't careabout you.
It's just that you know whenshe finally has a half hour to
herself.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
She wants to zone out and watch Netflix.
Well, and I was, and I was thatway as a young adult.
I mean, I had to call once aweek and I sort of dreaded that
call.
I was very close to my parents.
I'm not sure why I dreaded it.
I'm still trying to figure thatout.
I think it was sort of what yousaid before you always want
your' approval, you know.
Was I doing things that weregood enough?
Was I pleasing them?
And when you're on the phonewith them, you feel that more
(22:20):
because you're you know what Imean You're thinking about it
more.
I think it's important the wayyou handle those calls, and
we've discussed that a littlebit.
But let's get to some of thesethings.
You say the number one concernthat millennials have is money,
and as I look at inflation andreal estate prices and all that
sort of thing, I don't know whatI would be feeling as an
emerging adult today.
(22:41):
So what are they feeling?
How can we be supportive?
You know that sort of thing.
That's a pretty tough situationto be in right now.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It is, it really is.
And I will say I wrote thatarticle before the pandemic and
the pandemic has changed thingsa little bit.
They're even more worried,right or not?
Yes and no, it's beeninteresting, and maybe this this
might be more of a Gen Z thing,because my I started off
working with millennials.
My millennials are gettingolder, so this new generation
coming up, I have a lot of Gen Zclients as well, and so, with
(23:10):
the, what changed with thepandemic was there were a lot of
young people who had jobs thatthey weren't making a lot of
money, and then they got firedand laid off.
And then, you know, thegovernment was giving out like
$1,000 a week.
And right, we were, they werethere was.
Suddenly they were like, oh myGod, I'm making more money now
being unemployed than I ever did, working all the time, and a
lot of them, right, really savedthat money.
(23:33):
And then there was these, thestipends that we were getting
right.
And then there was these, thestipends that we were getting
right, and because they're notworking, so they get the full
benefit of the stipend, you know, they get the full amount.
A lot of them moved back homewith their parents and they
didn't have as many expenses,and so what I'm seeing is this
interesting thing of kids whothe young ones, who really
pandemic was very difficult, butfinancially they walked away
(23:54):
with a lot of money and theirparents are really anxious
because they're not really doinganything now.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
That's a real catch.
That's a real catch.
I would be pretty frustrated ifmy kid wasn't working and just
depending on that kind of thing.
But I found some of those kidsthat got those whatever stipends
and stuff spent them.
I mean, my husband was playinggolf one day and the guy he was
playing with was a tattoo artistand the tattoo artist said he
can tell every time a stimuluscheck went out there were lines
(24:21):
at the tattoo parlor.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well, that'll tell you something about the job.
Well, it was supposed to be astimulus.
I mean that's true?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
No, I know.
That's exactly right.
It did what it was supposed todo.
But I don't think tattoos werewhat they had in mind.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I think they were hoping there was a line at the
grocery store Exactly, and Iknow how needed that was.
I'm not getting into apolitical conversation Parent to
do now that kids still livingat home.
I'm just going to say something.
I just had an interview withthese two young.
They're actually comedians inBrooklyn.
They have a podcast called OKStupid and we titled the episode
OK Stupid and Stupid and whatOther Things your Kids Say About
(24:56):
you.
But one of the things they saidin the interview was that all
their friends are onantidepressants and yet they
feel like they're making all theright choices in their lives.
They're doing things reallydifferent from their parents.
So I'm thinking and they talkeda lot about their friends
living at home and all that sortof thing.
So I'm wrapping up a lot ofthings in one, but what's going?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
on here A couple of different things I mean.
One is that you know the, therelationship that people have
the younger generations tomental health is very, very
different, right?
Okay, for the first time and Imean, I think the pandemic one
of the things of the pandemicthat I think has been a positive
is I think we're finallytalking about mental health,
we're finally talking about the.
(25:39):
You know that we've created asociety in a world where
technology is great.
Technology has helped ustremendously, and imagine the
pandemic without technology.
It would have been a mess,right To keep it going.
I couldn't have been able tokeep my business going.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Nobody would have.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, and so it's really positive.
But the flip side of it is andwhat we forget is is that the
expectations that we have onyoung people in the workplace
today is radically different.
So you know, my first job outof college, I worked 930 to 530.
And when 530 hit, we locked thedoors.
(26:14):
We turn off the lights.
We locked the doors and we leftand my boss had no way of
getting ahold of me unless shecalled me at home and I picked
up.
But what's happening now withmillennials and now Gen Zers is
is that when technology hit, itwas like a free for all, like
people were working nonstop,especially here in the San
Francisco Bay area, where wehave Silicon Valley Almost
(26:34):
everywhere.
Yeah, and so what was happeningand I saw this with my clients
I was like God, there's no.
You yourself, at age 25, 26,you have to figure out your own
boundaries.
Like there are no boundaries,the blinds are really blurry,
everything is really blurry forthese young people.
So what was happening is thatthe technology really overtook
(26:57):
everything and made it, reallymade this younger generation
feel like they had to be if theywanted to excel and succeed and
be a good employee, to beconstantly, constantly working.
What I've seen is is that Ithink a lot of young people
what's happened is is that withthe pandemic, and everything
(27:17):
that's happened is that they'reasking themselves these
questions of like what's my lifeall about?
Like, do I really want to betied down to my computer, you
know, in my bedroom for the restof my life?
Is this what my life's going tolook like, you know, forever
and ever?
And then they started to askthemselves these questions ever
and ever.
And then they started to askthemselves these questions.
(27:39):
But before the pandemic, youngpeople were much more willing to
go see a therapist.
Millennials were primarilyraised by baby boomers who were
very accepting if their kid hadan issue when they were young,
to take them to a therapistright.
So they were introduced totherapy very early and I had a
lot of clients that came to methat were like, yeah, I went to
therapy in my teens but then Istopped.
(28:00):
But now I'm in my 20s and I'mgoing to come back.
So they're they're veryaccepting of that and you know a
part of it's it's not we don'tpush meds on people the first
thing that they come in, but ifsomeone's really struggling and
having a hard time we recommendand I do, too, recommend
medications, and so I think thatthe thing is is that people
(28:22):
have been on these meds for along, long time.
They just never talked aboutthem.
That's true.
People have been in therapy fora long, long time.
They just never talked about itas much as they're talking
about it now.
So it seems like, oh my God,everyone's on antidepressants
and everyone's depressed andeveryone's this and everyone's
that.
It's like no, no, no.
People have been anxious for along time.
It's just these youngergenerations are willing to say
(28:45):
hey, I'm anxious, help me, pointme in the right direction.
And that's the real difference.
But they've also shown that,yes, all of this technology is
making us anxious, that we arereally struggling with our
attention span because we can'tfocus on anything for more than
a few minutes.
(29:05):
Right, if you don't hooksomeone in six seconds, they're
gone forever.
You know, I record videos forYouTube.
I gotta like make them shorterand shorter.
I'm constantly doing thingslike Instagram.
You know you want to put up areel Like I'm supposed to solve
your problems in less than 60seconds.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
And now you got TikTok, which is sort, of like
you know, bringing YouTube downto a second.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes, yes, and people are scrolling and scrolling and
scrolling, scrolling andscrolling and scrolling.
So it's hard.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
So what do you tell these kids?
I'm feeling anxious justtalking about this.
I can't even imagine what itwould be like.
I mean, I'm so glad I'm older,because if I was young and
feeling a lot of I mean, I neverclosed the door at 530.
I would work till 830 or ninein my first job, but I knew at
nine o'clock when I went home noone would call me and there was
no computer at home, so Icouldn't keep working, I
couldn't keep writing.
(29:50):
So even if it was not nine tofive, you knew you had a break
when you got home.
Now you never have a break.
So what's the answer to thisand what do you tell these kids
when it's causing so muchanxiety and life questions?
And how is the world going todeal with it?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, I tell them that they need to set those
boundaries for themselves.
They need to figure out forthemselves, like, what is it,
you know, how long do I want towork?
And setting a boundary andsetting a line for themselves.
And when we set boundaries, weit's going to feel a little
uncomfortable.
That's what happens A lot oftimes.
People set these boundaries andthen they start to feel
(30:26):
uncomfortable and then they'relike oh, no, no, that means the
boundary is wrong.
It's like no, no, it just meansthat you know it's it's a hard
boundary to set.
So, you know, if I have clientswho are constantly, it's a hard
boundary to set.
So if I have clients who areconstantly, constantly working,
it's really figuring out okay,how many hours do you want to
work, what feels reasonable,okay, this is the time, and I
will sit there with them andhelp them plan that out.
(30:47):
And then plan out like okay, soif your boss texts you, what
are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, you have a couple different.
I mean, it depends on the boss,but you have a couple of
different options, I think oneis, I think, going into the
office and setting talking toyour boss about when you text me
on the weekends.
Are you expecting me to respond?
Because that's the biggestthing.
My clients just have never evenhad a conversation with their
boss about this particular issue.
I said, you know, if you areemailing, finding out from them
saying, hey, if you're emailingme on the weekends, if you're
texting me, what's theexpectation?
Find out what is expected ofyou first, and then, once you
(31:22):
know and most of the time, whatI found is they would go and
talk to their bosses about itand the boss would be like, oh
no, I just was thinking aboutthis and I just sent it to you.
I didn't think of anything ofit.
So usually it works itself outand then they can then say well,
you know.
Then they know, they know theydon't need to respond, they know
they don't need to do anythingabout it.
(31:47):
I also think that part of it,too, is really making a
conscious choice not to checkyour work email after a certain
time.
Or if you're going to checkyour work email, you do it at
this time and you get like, ifyou get caught up in something,
you have 20 minutes to do it andthen you're done.
It has to be an emergency.
So each person's very differentabout what they need.
And then I think that if youhave a situation where you have
a boss who doesn't respect yourboundaries and and is constantly
pinging you, and then it comesback to you to figure out like
(32:11):
how much do I want this job, howimportant is this to me, to do
that, and then making thatdecision from there.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Well, you said something earlier that struck me
, which was they were feeling,in order to excel, they had to
do this, and I still think someof that exists.
The person that gets back tothe boss or is engaged over the
weekend or at nine o'clock atnight has an idea, all that sort
of thing.
There's reward for that, andit's also hard as a worker not
(32:40):
to feel that reward, becausethat's where you get your.
I mean, money is one thing, butyou also get strokes through
affirmations and that you'redoing a good job.
When the boss says, wow, everytime I text you, you're right on
it, you feel I'm doing a goodjob.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
So you almost have to change that mindset as well.
Yeah, and that's another thing.
I pre-pandemic I used to gointo companies and talk to
employees and it was alwaysreally interesting because I
would be usually there, hired totalk about, you know, mental
health in the workplace or howto de-stress, and the irony was
that it was, it was always theworkers.
It was never management wouldnever come.
And the thing was that as I waschatting with people, I knew
(33:20):
that they were in that bind,which is, you know, it's this
thing where, yes, if you work,work, work and work all the time
and you make work your life,then you're going to get
rewarded.
But at the same time, thecompany is also talking out of
the other side of their mouth,saying, but you need to take
time off, and here we're goingto hire someone to come in and
talk to you about stress.
Right, right, right, right, and.
And.
And they knew, they knew theywere in this bind.
(33:41):
And here I am telling them tolike, set boundaries and do all
this stuff.
And they know that.
So I don't disagree with you.
Yes, no-transcript the praise.
(34:26):
But careers are a marathon, nota sprint.
You will get burned out.
I've seen it time and timeagain and companies have to
realize that that if they, Ifthey want to create long-lasting
employees which is what isalways cheaper and more
effective in the end if you wantto keep and retain your
employees, then it requires theleaders, the management, to
(34:50):
change this way of thinking andthis way of being and to start
to change and modify for theseyounger generations.
But the problem is is that whenI say that to older generations
, they don't like that.
No, they don't at all Because,much like myself, I trust me,
that was just that first jobthat I left at 530.
(35:10):
Once.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
I moved to Hollywood, everything changed.
Yeah, you worked your bottomoff.
Yes, my dad, you know, drilledinto me first to be there last
to leave.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yes, and so that's.
The thing is is that that wasfor a long, long time.
That was the secret to success,right, which was you work
really hard and you, you knowyou can buy things.
But the problem now is is thatit doesn't work like that
anymore.
Back in 1950, the averageAmerican had a 90% chance of
(35:40):
out-earning their parent.
Today, you have about, I think,less than 50% chance.
That's huge.
So what's happening withmillennials and Gen Zers is this
the American dream has changed,because in your generation and
in my generation, we were toldif you work hard, you go to
college, you find a career.
(36:00):
You first one in, last one out.
If you do all of that.
You can have a home, women,right, we can have it all.
You can have a home, you canhave retirement.
You can have all of thesethings.
All of this will be given toyou.
The problem is that you're notgoing to have those
(36:41):
no-transcript.
And so, yes, I am sorry, if youare a manager at a company and
you were browbeaten by yourbosses when you were younger and
you had to work your way up,and now you're sitting on the
top and now you can't treatpeople poorly.
You have to like.
You know what they always sayis oh my God, I have to kowtow
to these.
(37:01):
You know snowflakes, right,right.
And it's like you talk a lotabout the reputation that these
kids have and you really don'tthink they are what they have
the reputation of.
Yes, and I think that's that's.
The problem is, is that theminute these older generations
here like, hey, maybe you shouldapproach it from this place or
be vulnerable or understand itor change your behavior, that
(37:24):
mentality of but I worked sohard to get to where I am, why
should I change?
They need to change, and what Ithink is really unique and
special about millennials andGen Zers is they're sort of
these generations that aresaying, no, we're not going to
do that, because not only are wenot going to get a pension at
(37:44):
the end of our jobs, not onlyare we unsure of all of these
things, we have ways of makingmoney now that were not possible
before, and we don't need you.
That's true too, you know,that's the thing.
It's funny, because when I wasin Hollywood and working
constantly like the thing was,the only way to work up was you
had to be someone's assistantand you had to be someone's
(38:04):
assistant.
You had to put up with theircrap and you had to put up with
their behavior and how theytreated you, to get crumbs from
them to teach you how to do thisjob that you eventually wanted
to do, right.
But the thing is, nowadays,kids can just they just go on
YouTube, I can just figure thisout, I can set up a small
business, I can do this, I cando that.
And being an entrepreneur issuch a big thing now with social
(38:27):
media and all of that, thatthere's so many young people
that are like, well, I'm notgoing to put up with that, like
why should I?
I'll just go and do my ownthing, I mean.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I have to say, though , that that's a very small
percentage of kids.
I mean, most kids are not goingto be entrepreneurs.
Most of us are going to have tobe assistants in something to
start out in.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Well, in some way, ellen, but what she's saying and
I see this a lot it's sort ofthis whole gig economy.
They may not be entrepreneurs,but they're putting together
five or six different thingsthat are making them the same
salary that they were making.
Now, someone remember when weinterviewed those two young
adults from Adultish and wetalked about that a little bit?
They said, yes, that's true,but is it what was the word they
(39:06):
use?
Will it stay?
You know, is it what was theword they used?
You remember, ellen?
They said you know, it mightjust be short lived.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yeah, I mean yes, and that's true, but I think it
sort of sells something.
I mean, eventually people dohave to, you know, plant
tomatoes and have stores andthings like that.
Like there's it's sort of Idon't know.
I think it feeds their thatsense of anxiety that, oh, I'm
going to be an entrepreneur andif I'm not, then I'm a failure
at that too.
I mean, I think there are somekids who will be successful at
(39:36):
that, but the vast majority arestill going to have to take
those jobs that you know.
I mean they're not everybodycan be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I agree, and then I also worry.
I mean, I have a son who's anentrepreneur and I worry about
his 401k insurance, disabilityinsurance they forget about all
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yes, we do.
Listen, ellen, I agree with youthat not everyone can be an
entrepreneur, but the main thingis is that I just remember when
I was younger, in my twenties,I did not question any, anything
of what I you know, any of this.
I didn't question that, andpart of why I didn't question
(40:15):
was there were no other.
You know, the path was so clear, right, and what happened with
the Internet and the wayinformation is seen?
Because young people don't seeinformation the same way that I
know I see information, becauseonce upon a time you had to work
to get information.
You had to work to getknowledge and experience from
(40:37):
somebody, and the world that welive in today is anyone become
an expert in something withoutreally ever having to work for
it or find it or find thatknowledge right?
Everything is so readilyavailable to people that
information has changedconsiderably, and so that's one
(40:59):
of the things that I see is whenmillennials and Gen Zers, they
come into the workplace, youknow they're not.
They're not looking at theirbosses as that same thing of oh,
I'm going to get informationfrom this person, I want to take
these crumbs from you.
You know they're looking therebecause they have information.
They're looking for otherthings.
They're looking for arelationship and mentorship,
much more than I think I everdid, and so so much has changed
(41:24):
in that way and I don't know.
It will be interesting to seewhat happens with Gen Zers, like
what they end up doing, right,because we have this great
resignation and I see thisconstantly and the big thing is
a lot of my clients.
They don't like service jobs,any kind of waitressing or
bartending or any of that.
They're hard to fill these days.
(41:46):
And that is an area that a lotof young people are sort of
willing to make other sacrificesto not have to take those kinds
of jobs.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
So somebody's got to take those jobs.
Who's going to take them?
Do you think I don't know?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I mean someone will when you answer that yeah, when
you answer that I mean.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
it's interesting though, because it's like are we
all just going to not haverestaurants anymore?
Speaker 1 (42:09):
It's not just restaurants.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
You know, like nobody wants to be a waitress instead
of, I mean, my feeling is that Imean we should honor those
professions.
Yes, of course I mean.
My feeling is that I mean weshould honor those professions
as opposed to, you know, look atthem with sort of disdain.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
But that, I think, is a generational difference that
we're talking about, Right,we've been talking about money a
lot and we don't have a wholelot more time, so I'd really
like to hear from you, tess,what other things do you think
are on the top of mind of thestruggles with young adults?
I mean, I listed a few things.
There seems to be a lot ofmother-daughter conflict,
(42:45):
unresolved childhood conflicts.
Anything that comes up in yourpractice where you see these are
things that you could sharewith our listeners.
That they should pay attentionto Boundaries is another big one
.
Do they come very much talkingabout my mom's driving me crazy
or my dad's driving me crazy?
Or how do I separate?
What are some of the top thingsyou?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
hear adult hood, when you really start to understand
yourself and understand youropinions, and so what a lot of
(43:21):
is.
It's a lot of parsing out foryoung people of is this what I
believe or is this what myparents believe and told me I
should believe?
Right, and that's a big thingBecause, especially when it
comes around, a lot of parentssaid to their kids like become
an accountant, become a lawyer,become this, become that, you'll
always have a job.
It's a good, it's a good living.
You need to work hard.
(43:41):
And a lot of people went outand did that.
They became lawyers.
They, you know, they becameaccountants and then they're
four or five years into the joband they hate it.
You know they're reallymiserable.
So a lot of it is trying tounderstand for themselves with
their parents.
Like how do I forge my own paththat is different than what I
was taught and what I was told?
(44:02):
How do I?
How do I do that?
But there's, there's that partabout it and it's also.
And then, how do I make?
How do I declare and say I wantto do this and not disappoint
my parents or not freak out myparents, because you're younger
and you, you're an adult now andyou can see things a lot
clearer.
(44:24):
A lot of times young people areable to sort of look back at
their parents, whether theirparents got divorced or mom or
dad had an affair or they had astep-parent that they didn't
like.
You can go back as an adult nowand look at your childhood and
look at those things and you'retrying to understand your
parents and why they did whatthey did and understand your
relationship.
So there is that piece of it ofkids, you know, wanting answers
(44:46):
from their parents of like, whydid you get divorced and why
are why?
You know, why did you move orwhy did you leave, or or any of
these things.
So it's a lot of it's a lot ofkind of trying to understand
yourself through your parents.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
That makes so much sense and I think what it opens
up to me is, I think, for ourlisteners being willing to talk
about those things.
I mean, my daughter saidsomething to me recently.
I mean, you know, she's afourth year resident, she's
working her buns off and shesays, you know, so-and-so just
left early the other day andsaid she was worn out.
And she said, you know, mom, Iwish I could do that, but you
(45:21):
just drilled into me not to quit, you know, and I felt so bad.
I mean, I didn't feel bad and Iunderstood what I drilled into
her, but I was glad she washaving those thoughts and
thinking for herself in that way.
So I think being able to talkabout it is probably important,
do you agree?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
And I think the way you handledit was very good, because I
think sometimes there's this oneof this want to be defensive of
, yes, you shouldn't quit, right, you know I taught you that and
that's great.
And I too, listen, I, I haveparents who, um, very much
taught myself and my sister.
You know work, you know workhard and you know excel and and
(45:56):
all of that, and I too havethose feelings where it's like
God, I wish you told me to takea vacation more.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Right.
Well, you know, honey, she saysto me when I started ballet,
you wouldn't let me quit when.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
and I had no thoughts that I was like that, I thought
she enjoyed everything she wasdoing you know I'm going to just
intercede here, that you knowthis is not necessarily shameful
to not be able to say.
You know what I'm going to pushthrough this, I mean that's why
people do their own stuffinstead of walks around the
block.
I mean, there's a balance inhere and I think we tend to go
(46:25):
one direction or the other.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
And that's also like.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Katie shouldn't feel bad because she's not that other
person.
That other person is a separateperson with different goals,
different values.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
But you know, Ellen, I was glad she was thinking
about it and making decisionsfor herself.
She'll never be a quitterthat's not her personality but
I'm glad she's thinking aboutherself.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
And I think that what I was going to say was your
reaction to her, was it doesn'tsound like you got defensive and
tried to, you know, put yourstand or sort of apologize?
I think it's important to sortof just take it in.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Well, I did apologize a little bit, no no, no, she
liked ballet, she liked it.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
I can tell you this with 100% certainty.
I'm just kidding, and if youhadn't, I mean that's the other
side of the coin, is that?
Speaker 1 (47:19):
you.
You know, had you allowed herto quit a lot of things, you'd
have a different you know adifferent.
You're right, there's a balance, there's absolutely everything
they're saying is right, you'reright, but I'm sure those are
the exact kind of things theytalked, tess, about.
That's my guess, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Being a parent myself , and I'll always say I always
say this to my clients or towhomever it's like the parents
aren't the enemy when I'm in theroom with them.
Their parents are not theirenemy.
I'm a mother, I know what it'slike, and you?
There is no way you get throughparenting unscathed, no way.
It is so hard, so, so hard, andso I think the best thing that
you can do for your kids is tobe able to write that was, that
(47:54):
was your daughter's experience.
Her experience and her mind wasI wanted to quit ballet and mom
didn't.
So it's not about you defendingthat experience or apologizing
for it or anything.
It was just saying you know, Ihear you, you know, I see you, I
hear you and and I you know,because in the end, I think that
kids just want to be seen bytheir parents for who they are
(48:16):
and accepted for who they are.
Right, that's the core of it.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
We hear that all the time from the young adults we
interview.
Whatever the situation, theyalways hear their parents' voice
in their minds.
Okay, we've been going onreally long here and we've got
to wrap up, but I promised Iwould ask this one listener
question test and it's a littlebit in regards to money.
So I'm going to ask thisquestion and then we're going to
ask you to give us our fewtakeaways for our listenership,
unless, ellen, do you haveanything else before I do this?
Speaker 3 (48:42):
No, because I love this question.
I'm glad you're getting to itbecause I actually know a few
people are having troublegetting their kids out of the
house.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah.
So the listener question wasthey have a young adult daughter
.
So she and her husband havebeen helping their young adult
daughter in the last few yearsafter college to help her get
her feet on the ground, and nowshe's moved in with her
boyfriend and the parents feelthat their support should stop
but don't know how to approachit with their adult child.
What should their steps be orhow would you address this?
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Well, I think, first, the parents have to get on the
same page about what they feelcomfortable doing.
Like, you know, if they're bothon the same page of we really
need to, we don't want tosupport her any longer then what
I would do is I would go to herand I would put together a plan
.
You know you don't want tospring it on them like we're
cutting you off, but you, youwant to be able to go to her and
(49:32):
say hey, you know, we've beensupporting you, we're we feel
like we've done enough, we can'tdo this anymore.
However, you want to phrase itand just say okay, so we're
going to put together a plan forthe next six months, you know,
and we can do it in a couple ofdifferent ways.
We can slowly stop, 10 by 10%each month, or every, you know,
whatever it is.
Um, we can slowly give you lessand less money, or we can, or
(49:55):
we can say you know, at the endof the six months we're giving
you six months warning, we'regoing to stop supporting you at
all.
I would go and I would just saythis is the plan, this is what
we're doing.
And you know, if your kid comesback at you and being like, oh
my God, I can't.
I can't put it back on them andsay, okay, you need to tell us
exactly where.
(50:16):
If you want our financialsupport, you need to tell us
what you need specifically andwhere it's going to go.
We're not going to just blanketgive you money, because I have
a lot of.
I hear this all the time, likekids get on the cell phone,
family plan, right, and theparents just keep paying for it.
Or sometimes they'll pay forinsurance or health insurance
because they're worried about it.
(50:36):
That's why I'm saying you andyour partner have to kind of get
on the same page of listen.
We want to cut her off, butwe're worried about the health
insurance.
Let's just keep paying that.
We'll tell her this.
Right, the two of you want tomake sure that you know what you
want and then just go and tellthem like this is what's going
to happen.
And if you, if something needsto be different, you need to
come back to me and tell us whatis the plan and what is your
(51:01):
plan for eventually becomingfinancially free.
You know, like you can't, wecan't, we're not going to pay
this bill in perpetuity.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Right, you know.
I love the way you said thatyou know, because I had a
situation, um and it was againthe generation before mine where
the parents basically supportedtheir young adult child through
his marriage, with the kidsnever asking where that money
was going to, and I thought, mygosh, the parents are, like you
know, giving them everything.
So I love the idea of sayingyou know, if you continue to
(51:31):
need it, let us know where it'sgoing.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good, that's a good phrase, good
.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
So, anyway, I really appreciate that.
Now, tess, before we end, wealways ask for a few takeaways.
You're talking to our adultparents.
What are the two or threethings that you really want our
audience to remember and thinkabout?
Speaker 2 (51:48):
So if you have a child who is calling you
constantly, wanting you to solveevery single problem you don't
know how to stop, then it's timefor you to set a boundary, and
the easiest way of doing that isstop solving their problems.
And when you get on the phoneor text, you only ask questions.
You always put things back onthem.
How do you think you should dothat?
(52:09):
What do you think you shouldsay?
Number two is be aware that theworld is very, very different
now and that your kids are goingthrough something that is very
different, even if it feels like, hey, it's the same stuff I
went through, it is all new tothem.
It is all new to them theydon't know yet.
So when someone doesn't know,what do you do?
(52:31):
Do you shame them?
No, you recognize andunderstand it and help guide
them through.
And that, finally, the corething is your kid, your children
, just want you to love them andaccept them for who they are.
So always, when you walk intoany difficult conversation or
(52:51):
get on the phone with them oranything, just keep that in mind
.
Like, my child wants me to lovethem and recognize them for who
they are today, and it may notbe what you wanted or what you
planned, but that's being aparent, yeah that's such an
important thing to remember.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
That's the hard part too, about being a parent.
Tess, this has been wonderful.
I think what you're doing andthe audience that you've
gravitated to is wonderful.
You'll help so many people andI'm glad you had aitated to is
wonderful.
You'll help so many people andI'm glad you had a terrible time
in LA, yes, so, thank you so somuch for joining us today.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
So that's a wrap.
Thanks, tess, so much for yourinsight into our young adult
children and some of thestruggles that they face that we
might not quite understand.
I think we all know that everygeneration has their own hurdles
and, as Tess said, in the endit's really about loving our
kids for who they are.
That really seems like just thedefinition of parenting.
(53:58):
After the interview I thought,thought about my father, who
loved his job so much he wasable to involve all of us in his
job and it kind of became afamily affair In the end.
I'm glad he drilled into me thevalue of hard work.
I do believe it's still veryimportant.
Anyway, learn more about Tessand her practice by visiting
(54:20):
TessBringhamCoachingcom.
That's Tess T-E-S-S, brigham,b-r-i-g-h-a-m coachingcom.
She also offers a number ofbooks, like A Radically
Practical Guide to Liking your20s and some online courses to
help young adults find theirtrue selves, set goals and make
(54:44):
some of those important lifedecisions.
Go to her website and you'llfind a link to her courses and
her books.
It might be something you'llwant to share with your young
adult children.
Thanks again to Connie Fisher,our audio engineer, and to you
all of our listeners.
Check out our social mediasites and you'll find the link
to buy our new Bite your Tonguemug.
(55:05):
Let's spread the word and,finally, remember, sometimes you
just have to bite your tongue.
This conversation will keep usgoing.
(55:28):
Just go to our website atbiteyourtonguepodcastcom and
select support us.
You'll find lots of ways youcan help keep us going.
So, thanks, so much.
Thanks for listening.
And remember, sometimes you sayit, kirsten, sometimes you just
have to bite your tongue.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
Thank you.
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