May 14, 2024 • 31 mins
Our lovely guest Kate opens up about her past battle with an eating disorder and body image distress, the courage it took to step onto the path of recovery, and the transformative power of empathy and patience they experienced. We navigate the deep waters of emotional healing, discussing the importance of ditching harmful coping mechanisms and finding healthier ways to fulfill emotional needs.
Today's conversation is an empowering look at recovery, learning to trust our body, and intuitive eating, where we challenge the societal norms that dictate when and what we should eat. Kate recounts the liberating journey towards trusting, acknowledging the inner work required to face the fears and insecurities that surface along the way, laying down a blueprint for others to follow.
Join us in honoring Kate's inspiring journey to self-love and the courage it represents, a beacon of hope for anyone stepping onto the path of recovery and self-discovery.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Okay, thank you so much for being here, I'm so
excited to dive into this Ummentioned.
I think this would be a reallyhelpful way for people who are
nervous about starting therecovery and starting that
journey with food and body tolearn a little bit more about
someone who was also verynervous about starting.
Like, we all are always alittle bit skeptical, so just to
(00:25):
give them some encouragementand hope for their Okay.
So I will start with thequestion yeah, how would you
describe your overall experienceworth with working together and
starting your relationship withfood and body?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I remember, when I reached out to you, I was at a
really desperate point and I wasreally, um, I wanted to do the
work, but I didn't know how itwould.
How, how like, if, whoever Iwas like what?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm going to start over again.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I wanted to do the work.
I was nervous that I wouldwouldn't find a good fit, right,
um, and so I'm going to readyour question over here, because
I tend to talk a lot.
My overall experience with youwas incredibly positive because
of the warmth and the empathythat you showed me.
We took it at my pace.
I never felt pushed.
(01:17):
I didn't feel like I had tohave all the answers, and I even
think to this day, five yearslater, maybe I don't still have
all the answers, but that's okay, because I think relationships
with food are incredibly complex.
So I would say our overallexperience was incredibly
positive, and there are thingsthat we talked about five years
(01:37):
ago that I actually stillruminated.
I think ruminate through mybrain from time to time.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh, that's awesome.
I'm so glad you feel that way.
I think that's super importantfor your journey.
It is your journey, it's yourautonomy.
You have to feel like it is socomplex and there's so many
pieces.
It's incredibly complex.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I mean, when we met, I had been bulimic for already
14, 15 years at that point.
So I was like in deep, I was intrench and that was like my
life.
And I was pregnant on top of itand really wanting to start,
you know, changing myrelationship with food because I
saw down the line what thatwould look like for my kids.
(02:15):
Um, and you know, I think therewas a part of me, and there
always will be, that wants asense of freedom, always.
I, you know, I want to walknaturally through this life
without feeling so obsessed withsomething.
That's very normal.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It's just normal to eat, right yeah, absolutely, and
it's such a brave thing to doto like reach out support let
some someone in, yeah orguidance, because yeah, it scary
.
You have this deep and complexrelationship with food and body
image and everything that makesthat up, so you have to feel
safe and comfortable to to takeall the little steps and so yeah
(02:55):
.
I'm grateful that you let me inand gave me the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So I was grateful to you that it was for me, that we
were a match, a fit.
That was incredible, eventhough we were you know, you
were in Colorado and I'm in, youknow, on the east coast.
That was huge for me and it waslike I felt so lucky, yeah that
was great for me.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Good same same here.
So thank you so much forsharing that um.
I'm curious to hear a littlebit about what you know.
You said when you came to me,it was a, you were in deep, you
were, um, you know strugglingfor.
Said when you came to me, itwas a, you were in deep, you
were, you know, struggling for14 years and I don't remember
now if you were, if you weresome people before that or what
you know you were my firstentree like into any kind of
(03:38):
eating disorder recovery work.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.
I mean, you did amazing fornever seeing someone before I'm
very black and white.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I think a lot of us that have those, you know,
obsessive, compulsive or likeaddictive tendencies were like
all in or we're not.
And I was all in.
I'm always all in when I committo something.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, yes, you totally were, so.
I'm curious with coming fromsuch like um.
Just yeah, 14 years, it's a lotof time before to then working
with it, like you know, to to um, to our journey together, what,
what.
How does that look like beforeand after?
Before and now?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
you know it's been five years, which is a long time
.
Um, what is?
Are you asking me sort of whatmy eating looks like now?
Having what?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
was your prior to seeking support and starting me.
What did that look like and howdid that transform?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
I think prior to seeking to, prior to seeking
support, I was happy to just letmyself spiral um Right, I was
happy to sort of indulge in alllike the morbid, like love for
my bulimia, like just reallyjust self-sabotage and be
destructive.
I think when we met I saw anopportunity to start to love
(04:59):
myself right and take care ofmyself.
I thought that I was takingcare of myself in my own sick
way by binging right.
I was meeting like an emotionalneed and really like sort of
placating my anxiety.
That wasn't taking care ofmyself.
And I think when we met, wherewhere I saw a shift is that what
(05:21):
I was doing wasn't taking mycare of myself at all.
I mean really it was.
I remember expressing to you howmuch time I wasted.
I remember saying this likevery vividly being like Jamie, I
just I waste so much time.
And you would ask me what elsewould you rather do if you
weren't spending hours in yourcar binging?
(05:42):
And that was something thatreally struck me.
It's like, well, how can I takecare of myself and really meet
my needs?
It's not for food, for foodthat's not doing anything.
It's really distracting.
It's not distracting.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean that's awesome.
I think that it's.
It's really easy to continue to, you know, be in these um,
comfortable behaviors that arenot comfortable at all you know,
I remember all ourconversations of like it's so
distressed, it brings so muchdistress, so much planning, so
much planning, so much mentalenergy around like what?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
what does my schedule look like this week?
When am I going to be able todo this?
How's this going to make mefeel later in the day?
Um, am I going to get to?
You know, that was likesomething I would do in my
downtime, but like it didn'tfeel like downtime, it just felt
like something that I had tolike tick off the box Right.
It just felt it didn't feellike it was literally wasn't
nourishing.
I mean, it was just taking forme.
Taking, taking, taking.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And then changing that behaviorlike is very, very
uncomfortable, very, you know,to start to like I'm going to
trust my body and trust food andget uncomfortable and you know,
have this food but not use mybehavior, or like just it's so
uncomfortable because your mindis wired to feel safe in those
(07:02):
behaviors.
But you know you made thosechoices to get uncomfortable and
do things differently, and Istill do.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I think that's something that's really
important, especially becausewe're talking about this and
you're recording it.
Those fears, they don't go away, but I know that everything I
put in my mouth is not going tokill me.
It's not.
I'm not going to balloon andyou know, one of my biggest
fears and we'll talk about bodyimage was that I would suddenly
present in a bigger body andwould I be comfortable with that
(07:31):
?
And I remember telling you no.
And having been pregnant andhad three kids, I've seen my
body change a lot and evenpostpartum, my body's very
different, part of my body'svery different, and that's okay,
like it's okay.
I'm not.
You know, there's nothing wrongwith how I, with what I look,
(07:51):
like there's really.
This is just a vessel to likecarry around my brain Right and
my heart like my, my love and myemotion, like I'm just.
I really am so much more thanmy physical presence.
Yeah, yeah, okay with that,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I mean, that's such a transformation for your
relationship with your body andyour relationship with food and
so much of that like that is alldue to the the work that you've
done to get uncomfortable andto start rewiring those thoughts
and to then have differentbeliefs, because sitting that
discomfort then helps you tounderstand oh, I'm, I'm safe
(08:28):
when I have this food.
These fears don't come true.
Oh, I'm still okay, You're notyour thoughts and feelings right
.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You're not.
You are not your thoughts andfeelings like really and truly.
You're the core of your being,is not any, any, any thought or
feeling that you have.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It's so much deeper right, yeah absolutely, and you
practice it over and, over, and,over and over again.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Oh my gosh, all the time getting a little bit less
uncomfortable yeah, yeah, tothis day, to this day, I still
sometimes have to talk, sort ofcoach myself through decisions I
make around eating, and that'sokay.
Um, that's fine, because Istill, you know, I'm committed
to doing my work as much as Ican.
Right, you're choosing to livewith my tea.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
You're choosing respect.
You're choosing to take care ofyourself, which, again, you're
under, and you understand.
This is what taking care ofmyself is.
Before, what I was doing wasnot, you know, it was maybe
served you for a while to takecare of yourself, but this is no
longer what I understand to betaking care of myself and
nourishing my life and the waythat I want to, right.
(09:30):
So that's, that's awesome.
It's just, it's so good to hearI'm so proud of you.
That's work.
I know I've been.
You know being through it,helping people through it.
It's really hard and that'sgreat that you put that.
You invested in yourself inthat way and that's great that
you put that you invested inyourself in that way.
So thank you for sharing that.
So what tools did andstrategies and like when you
(09:54):
think about our work together?
I know it's been a bit, but ahot minute, yeah it's been a hot
minute.
What do you think that you took,like, what are the things that
you feel like you took away themost?
Do you remember anything thatwas like, like I still this
thing.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yes, there's one thing, five years later, that
will be seared in my brain andit might sound super corny to
you, but I remember saying toyou look, jamie, like, here's
the deal.
Like you know, I'm a veryscheduled, regimented person.
Like, right, I thrive oncertainty and I get very like
(10:29):
out off kilter if I don't have aroutine.
And I said to you, like, if Ieat breakfast and then it's like
noon, and let's say like, orlike, maybe I eat breakfast and
then it's noon and I'm nothungry, like what do I do?
Or like, maybe one day I don'twant breakfast, but then it's
like, like, maybe I eatbreakfast and then it's noon and
I'm not hungry.
Like what do I do?
Or like, maybe one day I don'twant breakfast, but then it's
like 10 30.
Do I eat lunch?
(10:49):
Like what happens?
And I remember you saying sovividly.
You said, kate, I'm eat whenyou're hungry.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I, you, I would.
You would think that, like youknow, you had just unlocked the
secrets of the world to me,because that's something that,
to this day, to this day, I givemyself permission to eat when
I'm hungry.
I don't care what the clock says, um, and maybe, like it's 10 30
in the morning and I don't wanta traditional, like it's a
(11:24):
weird time of day, maybe I'llhave, like you know, not a
breakfast food, but I rememberjust having such stringent rules
around timing and what foods Iwould pick during that time of
day, because it was lunchtime ordinner time or whatever.
And I remember saying this to myhusband being, like Jamie says,
(11:44):
I should just eat whenever I'mhungry, because we also do
family dinners at 530 to thisday, every day, and there are
some times where it's 430.
And even though I'm preparing ameal for all of us, I got to
eat, so I eat, and then I sitdown at the table at an hour
later and if I want to have more, I'll have more.
(12:04):
If I'm not ready, it's therefor when I'm like, when I want
to have some.
That was huge for me.
Like that is the reason why Ijumped on this call was to tell
you that thank you for giving mepermission to eat at whatever
time of day it is, absolutelyWhatever food it is that I want,
because that literally.
I don't think I ever thought togive myself permission to do
(12:26):
that, and I needed to hear itfrom someone else?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yes, absolutely.
And you, you gave yourself thatpermission, right, like it's,
it's, it's so, and that's suchhard permission to give
ourselves because, um, the rulesyou have, you know so your
rules.
I remember having this exactconversation way more than once,
because it takes way more thanone conversation, but having
these, like I feel safe if I umeat it this time and this time,
(12:53):
because I I know how my bodyresponds, I know how my mind
responds.
I like that, that container, um, so starting to break those
rules and being like, well, Icould eat whenever and I could
eat this, quote-unquote, thisisn't breakfast, breakfast,
right, like.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I had like a turkey ground turkey quesadilla at like
11 o'clock, that's kind kind oflunchy, whatever 1030, like a
week ago, with like beans andcheese.
I was like that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, exactly, it was delicious by the way, I don't
think I ever have breakfast.
I think I always have lunch forbreakfast.
But yeah, it's.
It's exactly societal rules,that um, and rules that we build
around like you know, kind ofthis, this, this way of coping,
and you broke those rules.
Maybe I uh offered a what wouldhappen if we maybe ate when we
(13:48):
were hungry?
But that's a very hard thing todo, you know, even like I'm
sure listeners will be like howdo I know if I'm hungry?
What if you know how?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
it's not perfect, right?
So this is not like an exactscience which is still something
that I, you know working onwhich is really to figure out
like am I?
Am I hungry?
You know that that's my hungercues, because my eating disorder
has run for many, many years.
It's still something that I'mtraining my brain to do, right
right, and that's the thing weknow.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
When you're talking about you when you're hungry, if
you also, so there's reallyslight hunger cues.
And also if you ate when you'retalking about you when you're
hungry, if you also, so there'sreally slight hunger cues.
And if you ate when you're nothungry, yeah, okay.
Can we build trust aroundeating?
If you're not hungry, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I've had to do that too.
I have three kids.
I have to take my son to speechpathology today at 5 30 that's
when we typically eat dinner.
We're going to be there forabout an hour and a half, so I'm
not going to be able to eatdinner.
So guess what I got?
To have a snack before I go.
Like you, know I got a plan.
I got to continue to plan, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And see oh, my body's okay.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Actually it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I'm not overly hungry and feeling out of control, but
there's so much that goes intothat, right, kate, like, think
about it.
You know, you we had to do andtalk about, you know body image,
work around that, because, well, what comes up behind if I eat
when I'm not?
Speaker 1 (15:09):
hungry.
What is it?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
what happens to my body?
What happened?
You know, there's just so muchdeep work that goes into.
Yeah, it's simple to just eatwhen you're hungry, can't allow
foods, but there's a ton of fearand coping and body image that
comes up around that.
That makes it really difficultfor you know, I'm just thinking
of listeners listening like,okay, I'll just eat when I'm
hungry.
I'm sure that's going to be ahuge struggle.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I mean, don't lie, I've done that so many times and
don't get me wrong Like ninetimes out of 10, I'm eating when
I'm physically hungry.
And so I think where I find alittle bit of comfort is, even
though I'm like oh, I'm not likereally feeling it nine times
out of 10, I'm I'm eating theway I would would like to or
(15:53):
would choose to right, it's inthat little 10% where I might
have to deviate from my plan.
It's not consistent, and that'swhat I think brings me a little
bit of like ease, where my myeating disorder thoughts are
like oh no, oh no, Right, it'slike, hey, 90% of the time you
get to do exactly what you want.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, really.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And that's you get to make those choices.
Yeah, that's awesome.
And even eating when I'm nothungry is still a choice.
Choice, I mean, I wouldn't wantto suffer being hangry.
That with three kids is not agood look.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yes, yes, absolutely not a good look, absolutely, and
it sounds like you know that'staking really good care of
yourself.
You're grounded.
You're really making decisionsfrom a grounded place of like,
how can I respect myself andtake care of myself?
And there might be some, somepop-ups, some you know anxieties
around it, but you know everytime you practice that you get
stronger and stronger and it isa muscle.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
It's a muscle that needs.
It's like anything, it's liketraining, anything else you know
we can.
We can rewire our brains.
It takes a lot of practice, butit's possible.
And I again, full disclosure.
You know I'm not a perfecthuman being at all, but like I
show up every day for myself,yeah, and that's amazing right.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know that's what it takes showing up every day
for yourself I show up every dayin those moments like you
really can't.
It's not good to go all the way.
In the future.
You can create some goals, butit is what right is all those
choices that you're making,which is so awesome and you've
come so far and you've done sucha good job.
So that's so awesome.
(17:29):
I'm really happy for you.
We we touched a little bit onbody image.
I'm curious about you knowbefore and where you are now
with body that's maybetransformed.
Maybe paint a little bit of apicture for um, because I think
it would help people who maybeare like, oh gosh, I, I have a
horrible relationship with bodyimage.
This will never change andthat's how people you know
(17:51):
people think this is how it'sgoing to be like forever.
So when they hear, well, I wasthere too, but now I'm here, it,
it, it creates a lot of hope.
So I'm curious about that.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I think body image is as a woman.
I can speak as a woman, um, andas a woman, as an elder
millennial woman who was reallyheavily exposed to diet culture
a lot, um, it's something that Ithink I will always struggle
with.
Um, when we met, I was adamantthat that, like I was going to
(18:24):
do the work, but I would Irefused to see my body like in
any different shape or size thanit was at that time, and I was
pregnant at that time, which isreally ironic to me.
But I remember telling you howmuch pride I took in, like, the
exercise that I did, which I,you know, I still do.
I still love to exercise, but Iwasn't willing to even
(18:48):
entertain the idea that, if Ilet go of some of my food rules
and my body is that I've been ina bigger body, not a
drastically bigger one, and I'veactually even been in a smaller
body at times in the last fiveyears, if anyone can believe it.
(19:10):
But I'm okay, no matter what,no matter how I show up, right,
um, I found that I think a lot,of a lot, of my, my thoughts
around body have changed becauseI'm a mom, right, I have a
daughter specifically not thatthis should be gendered in any
way, but I think to myself.
(19:31):
You know, these children, um,love me, no matter how I like
show up, like I mean, we cantalk about my physical, about
weight and height and shape, buteven you could just talk about
the fact that I have, you know,my hair is gross and I'm in a,
you know, a ratty t-shirt.
Um, I'm not looking my best,but that doesn't inherently
(19:53):
change my worth or my value, nomatter how I sort of present Yep
, yep, um, I think what?
What happens when you do workaround eating disorders and body
image, when there's time, likewe're talking about when you and
I met five years ago, when Ilook back retrospectively and
(20:15):
think to times in the last fiveyears where my body's been a
little bit bigger or a littlebit smaller.
I've been no matter what, yeah,yeah, so maybe I don't feel
comfortable in any given moment.
That's what I said like fulldisclosure.
I'm not perfect, maybe I don'tfeel the best about myself on
any given day, but I'm okay,yeah, like I'm okay, and I think
that's huge.
(20:35):
That is so huge, I'm sure like.
I'm okay.
I don't have to love the waythat I look every single day,
but I'm okay.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I think people hearing that aregood it's going to give it
gives them so much hope becausethere's so many people wishing I
just want to be okay and tohear you know I wasn't okay.
It was such a struggle alwayson my mind to always always on
my mind.
Oh, my gosh, right, right Tonow I'm okay.
I'm okay.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Such a great place that is again don't love myself
every day, but I'm okay, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
That's a huge.
That's a huge thing.
You're accepting the fluidity,you're accepting you're you're
not focusing on your body likethat.
You're like well, I'm gonnaknow ways about it and that's
okay you know, there'sacceptance, there's fluidity,
there's holding space for that,there's compassion in that.
I hear the compassion that youhave for your body, in that,
(21:33):
which just is so big to get tothat place.
Um, I mean that is notsomething small.
And even when you're like, well, maybe I have like more work I
want to do, or I mean that isnot something small.
And even when you're like, well, maybe I have like more work I
want to do, or maybe I want tofeel this, or what you know, I
think I will always have work todo Right, and that's okay, and
that's okay Right.
You're going to always have abody.
You're always gonna have a bodythat's changing.
(21:54):
We live in this society we livein you have a large history and
when you started your work, I'msure you were like, if I get to
this place, that would beamazing.
If I knew that was possible.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
And now you're there feeling that way that and
practicing that I think it'salso important for what it's
worth is to tell people thatwhen you start to make changes
around food, that like for whatit's worth, for those people
that have really disorderedeating, like but like I, I guess
you could say that, like I did,or I, you know, I still like,
(22:25):
right, um, that you know youwould have to fundamentally like
180 everything about your dietand your lifestyle, your diet,
to really, I think, enter aspace where you would be so
uncomfortable with your bodythat you would reject it
outright.
I mean really.
I mean, for me what wasimportant was eating the food.
(22:47):
Yes, right, yes, it was justeating the food.
I, you know I wasn't sittingthere, do I don't know what I'm
trying to exactly say.
It was really like my wholelifestyle would have been
overhauled to a point where Ithink I get what you're to such
a degree where I'd feel souncomfortable that I was like
you know what?
I don't want to do this work.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Right, Exactly you, really.
Yes, it does make sense.
I think you're speaking to the.
You know people have a hugefear that things are going to
drastically change.
They're going to feel souncomfortable.
Things are going to bedifferent because they really
play out all these like, reallythese fears of like I don't know
.
I don't feel like myself, rightyou?
know, I mean you would have tojust like overhaul your whole
(23:25):
life, right, right, and that'sjust out of your window of
tolerance.
People can't do it that way.
You have to take baby steps tobe like I'm safe here, I'm
comfortable here, I can do thisto be able to, to get there.
But that is such a that is sucha fear.
That's why some people dive,jump right into the pool and
some people dip their toes andit's different for everyone.
(23:45):
Totally.
It depends on you know whereyou're at and everyone's journey
Totally, so that that makes allthe sense.
I just got the 10 minutereminder that we're, that we
have 10 minutes.
I'm curious.
So anything else that you wouldlike people to know, to give
them some hope or to shareanything?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
you know, don't get me make me emotional, please.
I don't when you enter thisspace and you choose yourself,
um, you are giving yourself ahuge gift.
It doesn't feel like it in themoment.
It really doesn't.
It doesn't feel like the whenyou're, um, gonna entertain the
(24:31):
idea of maybe changingeverything, that you know that,
like, you're gonna be safe, orthat things could get better.
They, they can, they theyreally can.
And I remember you saying to meyou know, kate, what's the
what's like the worst thingthat's going to happen if you
(24:51):
give up your behaviors orbulimic behaviors.
You're binging and you'repurging.
You know what's if you give itup, you can always.
You can always.
I mean really, you said you canalways go back to it and you
weren't wrong.
Yeah, um, and I felt a lot offreedom to say you know what,
kate, if you hate this so badand you really this isn't for
(25:15):
you, jamie's not wrong, it's not.
There's nothing stopping youfrom going back to um, to those
behaviors.
But why don't just try this,try it, try it.
What's the worst that can happen?
Yeah, not that I would.
I'm giving people permissionexplicitly to I cause I I do
(25:37):
feel like a lot of my behaviorswere self harming, really and
truly, but it's okay to try.
It's something different.
I remember you saying that andthat was incredibly.
That gave me like the space toeven entertain, to do the work
right, because I have yourfreedom and autonomy and that
(25:58):
and I say that to this day witheveryone, cause I think you need
, even for myself, exploringscary things in life in general.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You have to.
You owe it to yourself toexperiment, but and you also
have your very real protectiveparts and behaviors that you
know you might feel the need togo back to and you don't want
anyone taking that away from you.
No one's you can say that so toknow, like, why not?
You just haven't explored thisother thing and you most likely
(26:27):
will find that, oh, thisactually feels way better and
feels way more protective andfeels way more respectful than
maybe this other thing, but it'sstill there for you.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You can but you have to give it time.
I think the one takeaway Iwould say is that, even five
years out, there are things thatI would love to tweak and, you
know, make perfect.
If I could, um, that might be alifelong battle for me, or
struggle, or maybe that's notthe right words.
I want choice, I like lifelong.
We'd be making these choicesfor a long time.
(27:00):
Um, but give it time.
Right, like mess up, start allover again, try something
different, like, if you'rewilling to do the work, there's
no one linear way to do it.
Keep at it, keep working at it.
It doesn't have.
You don't have to choose oneroute to recovery, and for me,
(27:22):
recovery from many things hasnot been linear at all, and
that's okay too, because if Ionly thought that the only way I
was going to recover was tojust go up, up, up, up, up, up
up, I might as well have juststayed in my disordered eating
forever.
I've just been like you knowwhat up up, up up.
I might as well have juststayed in my disordered eating
forever, right, and it's beenlike you know what the first
(27:42):
time right, like that was justdisheartening and discouraging,
because then you think, oh, Imust be failing, because I'm
this is not going up, up, up, orit's not linear, it's quote,
unquote.
used to behave like I say todayor at this moment it really is
not a linear path, and that's Ithink that's normal, I think
(28:04):
that's healthy, because youlearn so much you really do.
Yeah, like so much from fromlike relapsing, coming back and
trying differently and tweakingit, and like evaluating.
I mean right, I think it's soimportant to fail, I think it's
so important part of it, youhave to fail.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I like invite people to fail.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
They're learning, you're not learning, you can
give them all the tools, butuntil they sort of have that
moment that like come to Jesusmoment where they're struggling
again and maybe they, like youknow, use their behaviors and
they're like you know, and then,but then you reevaluate right,
tweak it yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
And then the part that you started with, which is
investing in yourself.
People have, I think, have avery hard time choosing to.
Well, first of all, it'suncomfortable, but also choosing
to oh, it's super uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
It's the most uncomfortable thing I've ever
done.
Yes, yes, absolutely, easily,easily the most uncomfortable
thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Just getting on this, our first conversation, I was
like what am I doing?
Yes, why am I doing this?
Am I serious right now?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It's so great.
You kind of you know you haveto follow your discomfort.
If something's making youuncomfortable, it's something to
get really curious about,because that's where, like, a
lot of growth happens.
So I'm so glad that youinvested in yourself and I think
that's a great message forfolks out there is.
You know, it's it really, yeah,yeah, absolutely well, there's
nothing to lose, really.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I mean, if you hate it, then you hate it.
I mean, that's not.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's maybe not the best way to leave it, but no,
but it's true, like experiment,you owe yourself to experiment,
if there, I mean if you've madeit this far right if you've made
it this far, to where you'repotentially meeting with Jamie,
you're in a good space to liketry something out.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah Right, If you're here, let's.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Let's like walk through the store and see what
happens, yeah absolutely Ifthere's a part of you that feels
strongly like what I'm doingisn't working.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
What I'm doing doesn't feel good and I hope
especially if it doesn't feelgood especially that's when I
came to you because it doesn't.
It wasn't at that point whereit wasn't feeling good anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yes, absolutely, and you owe it to yourself to listen
to that part.
Sometimes your, your safetyparts, are like it's okay if it
doesn't feel good, like I.
You know, this is what feelssafe.
This is what feels comfortable.
This is what we know.
Listening to that self partthat's like this doesn't feel
compassionate.
I am curious about somethingdifferent.
I want to be courageous and trythat out.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
You know that is the curiosity and see where it leads
you.
You might be surprised.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Thank you so much, kate.
This is so helpful.
I know I help people to hearthis and I I'm so proud of you.
It's so cool to see all thehard work obviously has paid off
tremendously Very proud of you.
I'm so proud of you.
It's so cool to see all thehard work.
Obviously it has paid offtremendously.
Very proud of you.
I'm very excited for people tohear it.
I just really appreciate yourtime.
Thank you, jamie, you're thebest yeah it was really good
(31:29):
reconnecting as well.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
So good to talk to you.
Okay, thank you so much for being here, I'm so
excited to dive into this Ummentioned.
I think this would be a reallyhelpful way for people who are
nervous about starting therecovery and starting that
journey with food and body tolearn a little bit more about
someone who was also verynervous about starting.
Like, we all are always alittle bit skeptical, so just to
(00:25):
give them some encouragementand hope for their Okay.
So I will start with thequestion yeah, how would you
describe your overall experienceworth with working together and
starting your relationship withfood and body?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I remember, when I reached out to you, I was at a
really desperate point and I wasreally, um, I wanted to do the
work, but I didn't know how itwould.
How, how like, if, whoever Iwas like what?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm going to start over again.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I wanted to do the work.
I was nervous that I wouldwouldn't find a good fit, right,
um, and so I'm going to readyour question over here, because
I tend to talk a lot.
My overall experience with youwas incredibly positive because
of the warmth and the empathythat you showed me.
We took it at my pace.
I never felt pushed.
(01:17):
I didn't feel like I had tohave all the answers, and I even
think to this day, five yearslater, maybe I don't still have
all the answers, but that's okay, because I think relationships
with food are incredibly complex.
So I would say our overallexperience was incredibly
positive, and there are thingsthat we talked about five years
(01:37):
ago that I actually stillruminated.
I think ruminate through mybrain from time to time.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh, that's awesome.
I'm so glad you feel that way.
I think that's super importantfor your journey.
It is your journey, it's yourautonomy.
You have to feel like it is socomplex and there's so many
pieces.
It's incredibly complex.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I mean, when we met, I had been bulimic for already
14, 15 years at that point.
So I was like in deep, I was intrench and that was like my
life.
And I was pregnant on top of itand really wanting to start,
you know, changing myrelationship with food because I
saw down the line what thatwould look like for my kids.
(02:15):
Um, and you know, I think therewas a part of me, and there
always will be, that wants asense of freedom, always.
I, you know, I want to walknaturally through this life
without feeling so obsessed withsomething.
That's very normal.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It's just normal to eat, right yeah, absolutely, and
it's such a brave thing to doto like reach out support let
some someone in, yeah orguidance, because yeah, it scary
.
You have this deep and complexrelationship with food and body
image and everything that makesthat up, so you have to feel
safe and comfortable to to takeall the little steps and so yeah
(02:55):
.
I'm grateful that you let me inand gave me the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So I was grateful to you that it was for me, that we
were a match, a fit.
That was incredible, eventhough we were you know, you
were in Colorado and I'm in, youknow, on the east coast.
That was huge for me and it waslike I felt so lucky, yeah that
was great for me.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Good same same here.
So thank you so much forsharing that um.
I'm curious to hear a littlebit about what you know.
You said when you came to me,it was a, you were in deep, you
were, um, you know strugglingfor.
Said when you came to me, itwas a, you were in deep, you
were, you know, struggling for14 years and I don't remember
now if you were, if you weresome people before that or what
you know you were my firstentree like into any kind of
(03:38):
eating disorder recovery work.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.
I mean, you did amazing fornever seeing someone before I'm
very black and white.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I think a lot of us that have those, you know,
obsessive, compulsive or likeaddictive tendencies were like
all in or we're not.
And I was all in.
I'm always all in when I committo something.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, yes, you totally were, so.
I'm curious with coming fromsuch like um.
Just yeah, 14 years, it's a lotof time before to then working
with it, like you know, to to um, to our journey together, what,
what.
How does that look like beforeand after?
Before and now?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
you know it's been five years, which is a long time
.
Um, what is?
Are you asking me sort of whatmy eating looks like now?
Having what?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
was your prior to seeking support and starting me.
What did that look like and howdid that transform?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
I think prior to seeking to, prior to seeking
support, I was happy to just letmyself spiral um Right, I was
happy to sort of indulge in alllike the morbid, like love for
my bulimia, like just reallyjust self-sabotage and be
destructive.
I think when we met I saw anopportunity to start to love
(04:59):
myself right and take care ofmyself.
I thought that I was takingcare of myself in my own sick
way by binging right.
I was meeting like an emotionalneed and really like sort of
placating my anxiety.
That wasn't taking care ofmyself.
And I think when we met, wherewhere I saw a shift is that what
(05:21):
I was doing wasn't taking mycare of myself at all.
I mean really it was.
I remember expressing to you howmuch time I wasted.
I remember saying this likevery vividly being like Jamie, I
just I waste so much time.
And you would ask me what elsewould you rather do if you
weren't spending hours in yourcar binging?
(05:42):
And that was something thatreally struck me.
It's like, well, how can I takecare of myself and really meet
my needs?
It's not for food, for foodthat's not doing anything.
It's really distracting.
It's not distracting.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean that's awesome.
I think that it's.
It's really easy to continue to, you know, be in these um,
comfortable behaviors that arenot comfortable at all you know,
I remember all ourconversations of like it's so
distressed, it brings so muchdistress, so much planning, so
much planning, so much mentalenergy around like what?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
what does my schedule look like this week?
When am I going to be able todo this?
How's this going to make mefeel later in the day?
Um, am I going to get to?
You know, that was likesomething I would do in my
downtime, but like it didn'tfeel like downtime, it just felt
like something that I had tolike tick off the box Right.
It just felt it didn't feellike it was literally wasn't
nourishing.
I mean, it was just taking forme.
Taking, taking, taking.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And then changing that behaviorlike is very, very
uncomfortable, very, you know,to start to like I'm going to
trust my body and trust food andget uncomfortable and you know,
have this food but not use mybehavior, or like just it's so
uncomfortable because your mindis wired to feel safe in those
(07:02):
behaviors.
But you know you made thosechoices to get uncomfortable and
do things differently, and Istill do.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I think that's something that's really
important, especially becausewe're talking about this and
you're recording it.
Those fears, they don't go away, but I know that everything I
put in my mouth is not going tokill me.
It's not.
I'm not going to balloon andyou know, one of my biggest
fears and we'll talk about bodyimage was that I would suddenly
present in a bigger body andwould I be comfortable with that
(07:31):
?
And I remember telling you no.
And having been pregnant andhad three kids, I've seen my
body change a lot and evenpostpartum, my body's very
different, part of my body'svery different, and that's okay,
like it's okay.
I'm not.
You know, there's nothing wrongwith how I, with what I look,
(07:51):
like there's really.
This is just a vessel to likecarry around my brain Right and
my heart like my, my love and myemotion, like I'm just.
I really am so much more thanmy physical presence.
Yeah, yeah, okay with that,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I mean, that's such a transformation for your
relationship with your body andyour relationship with food and
so much of that like that is alldue to the the work that you've
done to get uncomfortable andto start rewiring those thoughts
and to then have differentbeliefs, because sitting that
discomfort then helps you tounderstand oh, I'm, I'm safe
(08:28):
when I have this food.
These fears don't come true.
Oh, I'm still okay, You're notyour thoughts and feelings right
.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You're not.
You are not your thoughts andfeelings like really and truly.
You're the core of your being,is not any, any, any thought or
feeling that you have.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It's so much deeper right, yeah absolutely, and you
practice it over and, over, and,over and over again.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Oh my gosh, all the time getting a little bit less
uncomfortable yeah, yeah, tothis day, to this day, I still
sometimes have to talk, sort ofcoach myself through decisions I
make around eating, and that'sokay.
Um, that's fine, because Istill, you know, I'm committed
to doing my work as much as Ican.
Right, you're choosing to livewith my tea.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
You're choosing respect.
You're choosing to take care ofyourself, which, again, you're
under, and you understand.
This is what taking care ofmyself is.
Before, what I was doing wasnot, you know, it was maybe
served you for a while to takecare of yourself, but this is no
longer what I understand to betaking care of myself and
nourishing my life and the waythat I want to, right.
(09:30):
So that's, that's awesome.
It's just, it's so good to hearI'm so proud of you.
That's work.
I know I've been.
You know being through it,helping people through it.
It's really hard and that'sgreat that you put that.
You invested in yourself inthat way and that's great that
you put that you invested inyourself in that way.
So thank you for sharing that.
So what tools did andstrategies and like when you
(09:54):
think about our work together?
I know it's been a bit, but ahot minute, yeah it's been a hot
minute.
What do you think that you took,like, what are the things that
you feel like you took away themost?
Do you remember anything thatwas like, like I still this
thing.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yes, there's one thing, five years later, that
will be seared in my brain andit might sound super corny to
you, but I remember saying toyou look, jamie, like, here's
the deal.
Like you know, I'm a veryscheduled, regimented person.
Like, right, I thrive oncertainty and I get very like
(10:29):
out off kilter if I don't have aroutine.
And I said to you, like, if Ieat breakfast and then it's like
noon, and let's say like, orlike, maybe I eat breakfast and
then it's noon and I'm nothungry, like what do I do?
Or like, maybe one day I don'twant breakfast, but then it's
like, like, maybe I eatbreakfast and then it's noon and
I'm not hungry.
Like what do I do?
Or like, maybe one day I don'twant breakfast, but then it's
like 10 30.
Do I eat lunch?
(10:49):
Like what happens?
And I remember you saying sovividly.
You said, kate, I'm eat whenyou're hungry.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I, you, I would.
You would think that, like youknow, you had just unlocked the
secrets of the world to me,because that's something that,
to this day, to this day, I givemyself permission to eat when
I'm hungry.
I don't care what the clock says, um, and maybe, like it's 10 30
in the morning and I don't wanta traditional, like it's a
(11:24):
weird time of day, maybe I'llhave, like you know, not a
breakfast food, but I rememberjust having such stringent rules
around timing and what foods Iwould pick during that time of
day, because it was lunchtime ordinner time or whatever.
And I remember saying this to myhusband being, like Jamie says,
(11:44):
I should just eat whenever I'mhungry, because we also do
family dinners at 530 to thisday, every day, and there are
some times where it's 430.
And even though I'm preparing ameal for all of us, I got to
eat, so I eat, and then I sitdown at the table at an hour
later and if I want to have more, I'll have more.
(12:04):
If I'm not ready, it's therefor when I'm like, when I want
to have some.
That was huge for me.
Like that is the reason why Ijumped on this call was to tell
you that thank you for giving mepermission to eat at whatever
time of day it is, absolutelyWhatever food it is that I want,
because that literally.
I don't think I ever thought togive myself permission to do
(12:26):
that, and I needed to hear itfrom someone else?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yes, absolutely.
And you, you gave yourself thatpermission, right, like it's,
it's, it's so, and that's suchhard permission to give
ourselves because, um, the rulesyou have, you know so your
rules.
I remember having this exactconversation way more than once,
because it takes way more thanone conversation, but having
these, like I feel safe if I umeat it this time and this time,
(12:53):
because I I know how my bodyresponds, I know how my mind
responds.
I like that, that container, um, so starting to break those
rules and being like, well, Icould eat whenever and I could
eat this, quote-unquote, thisisn't breakfast, breakfast,
right, like.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I had like a turkey ground turkey quesadilla at like
11 o'clock, that's kind kind oflunchy, whatever 1030, like a
week ago, with like beans andcheese.
I was like that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, exactly, it was delicious by the way, I don't
think I ever have breakfast.
I think I always have lunch forbreakfast.
But yeah, it's.
It's exactly societal rules,that um, and rules that we build
around like you know, kind ofthis, this, this way of coping,
and you broke those rules.
Maybe I uh offered a what wouldhappen if we maybe ate when we
(13:48):
were hungry?
But that's a very hard thing todo, you know, even like I'm
sure listeners will be like howdo I know if I'm hungry?
What if you know how?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
it's not perfect, right?
So this is not like an exactscience which is still something
that I, you know working onwhich is really to figure out
like am I?
Am I hungry?
You know that that's my hungercues, because my eating disorder
has run for many, many years.
It's still something that I'mtraining my brain to do, right
right, and that's the thing weknow.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
When you're talking about you when you're hungry, if
you also, so there's reallyslight hunger cues.
And also if you ate when you'retalking about you when you're
hungry, if you also, so there'sreally slight hunger cues.
And if you ate when you're nothungry, yeah, okay.
Can we build trust aroundeating?
If you're not hungry, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I've had to do that too.
I have three kids.
I have to take my son to speechpathology today at 5 30 that's
when we typically eat dinner.
We're going to be there forabout an hour and a half, so I'm
not going to be able to eatdinner.
So guess what I got?
To have a snack before I go.
Like you, know I got a plan.
I got to continue to plan, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And see oh, my body's okay.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Actually it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I'm not overly hungry and feeling out of control, but
there's so much that goes intothat, right, kate, like, think
about it.
You know, you we had to do andtalk about, you know body image,
work around that, because, well, what comes up behind if I eat
when I'm not?
Speaker 1 (15:09):
hungry.
What is it?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
what happens to my body?
What happened?
You know, there's just so muchdeep work that goes into.
Yeah, it's simple to just eatwhen you're hungry, can't allow
foods, but there's a ton of fearand coping and body image that
comes up around that.
That makes it really difficultfor you know, I'm just thinking
of listeners listening like,okay, I'll just eat when I'm
hungry.
I'm sure that's going to be ahuge struggle.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I mean, don't lie, I've done that so many times and
don't get me wrong Like ninetimes out of 10, I'm eating when
I'm physically hungry.
And so I think where I find alittle bit of comfort is, even
though I'm like oh, I'm not likereally feeling it nine times
out of 10, I'm I'm eating theway I would would like to or
(15:53):
would choose to right, it's inthat little 10% where I might
have to deviate from my plan.
It's not consistent, and that'swhat I think brings me a little
bit of like ease, where my myeating disorder thoughts are
like oh no, oh no, Right, it'slike, hey, 90% of the time you
get to do exactly what you want.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, really.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And that's you get to make those choices.
Yeah, that's awesome.
And even eating when I'm nothungry is still a choice.
Choice, I mean, I wouldn't wantto suffer being hangry.
That with three kids is not agood look.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yes, yes, absolutely not a good look, absolutely, and
it sounds like you know that'staking really good care of
yourself.
You're grounded.
You're really making decisionsfrom a grounded place of like,
how can I respect myself andtake care of myself?
And there might be some, somepop-ups, some you know anxieties
around it, but you know everytime you practice that you get
stronger and stronger and it isa muscle.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
It's a muscle that needs.
It's like anything, it's liketraining, anything else you know
we can.
We can rewire our brains.
It takes a lot of practice, butit's possible.
And I again, full disclosure.
You know I'm not a perfecthuman being at all, but like I
show up every day for myself,yeah, and that's amazing right.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know that's what it takes showing up every day
for yourself I show up every dayin those moments like you
really can't.
It's not good to go all the way.
In the future.
You can create some goals, butit is what right is all those
choices that you're making,which is so awesome and you've
come so far and you've done sucha good job.
So that's so awesome.
(17:29):
I'm really happy for you.
We we touched a little bit onbody image.
I'm curious about you knowbefore and where you are now
with body that's maybetransformed.
Maybe paint a little bit of apicture for um, because I think
it would help people who maybeare like, oh gosh, I, I have a
horrible relationship with bodyimage.
This will never change andthat's how people you know
(17:51):
people think this is how it'sgoing to be like forever.
So when they hear, well, I wasthere too, but now I'm here, it,
it, it creates a lot of hope.
So I'm curious about that.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I think body image is as a woman.
I can speak as a woman, um, andas a woman, as an elder
millennial woman who was reallyheavily exposed to diet culture
a lot, um, it's something that Ithink I will always struggle
with.
Um, when we met, I was adamantthat that, like I was going to
(18:24):
do the work, but I would Irefused to see my body like in
any different shape or size thanit was at that time, and I was
pregnant at that time, which isreally ironic to me.
But I remember telling you howmuch pride I took in, like, the
exercise that I did, which I,you know, I still do.
I still love to exercise, but Iwasn't willing to even
(18:48):
entertain the idea that, if Ilet go of some of my food rules
and my body is that I've been ina bigger body, not a
drastically bigger one, and I'veactually even been in a smaller
body at times in the last fiveyears, if anyone can believe it.
(19:10):
But I'm okay, no matter what,no matter how I show up, right,
um, I found that I think a lot,of a lot, of my, my thoughts
around body have changed becauseI'm a mom, right, I have a
daughter specifically not thatthis should be gendered in any
way, but I think to myself.
(19:31):
You know, these children, um,love me, no matter how I like
show up, like I mean, we cantalk about my physical, about
weight and height and shape, buteven you could just talk about
the fact that I have, you know,my hair is gross and I'm in a,
you know, a ratty t-shirt.
Um, I'm not looking my best,but that doesn't inherently
(19:53):
change my worth or my value, nomatter how I sort of present Yep
, yep, um, I think what?
What happens when you do workaround eating disorders and body
image, when there's time, likewe're talking about when you and
I met five years ago, when Ilook back retrospectively and
(20:15):
think to times in the last fiveyears where my body's been a
little bit bigger or a littlebit smaller.
I've been no matter what, yeah,yeah, so maybe I don't feel
comfortable in any given moment.
That's what I said like fulldisclosure.
I'm not perfect, maybe I don'tfeel the best about myself on
any given day, but I'm okay,yeah, like I'm okay, and I think
that's huge.
(20:35):
That is so huge, I'm sure like.
I'm okay.
I don't have to love the waythat I look every single day,
but I'm okay.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I think people hearing that aregood it's going to give it
gives them so much hope becausethere's so many people wishing I
just want to be okay and tohear you know I wasn't okay.
It was such a struggle alwayson my mind to always always on
my mind.
Oh, my gosh, right, right Tonow I'm okay.
I'm okay.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Such a great place that is again don't love myself
every day, but I'm okay, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
That's a huge.
That's a huge thing.
You're accepting the fluidity,you're accepting you're you're
not focusing on your body likethat.
You're like well, I'm gonnaknow ways about it and that's
okay you know, there'sacceptance, there's fluidity,
there's holding space for that,there's compassion in that.
I hear the compassion that youhave for your body, in that,
(21:33):
which just is so big to get tothat place.
Um, I mean that is notsomething small.
And even when you're like, well, maybe I have like more work I
want to do, or I mean that isnot something small.
And even when you're like, well, maybe I have like more work I
want to do, or maybe I want tofeel this, or what you know, I
think I will always have work todo Right, and that's okay, and
that's okay Right.
You're going to always have abody.
You're always gonna have a bodythat's changing.
(21:54):
We live in this society we livein you have a large history and
when you started your work, I'msure you were like, if I get to
this place, that would beamazing.
If I knew that was possible.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
And now you're there feeling that way that and
practicing that I think it'salso important for what it's
worth is to tell people thatwhen you start to make changes
around food, that like for whatit's worth, for those people
that have really disorderedeating, like but like I, I guess
you could say that, like I did,or I, you know, I still like,
(22:25):
right, um, that you know youwould have to fundamentally like
180 everything about your dietand your lifestyle, your diet,
to really, I think, enter aspace where you would be so
uncomfortable with your bodythat you would reject it
outright.
I mean really.
I mean, for me what wasimportant was eating the food.
(22:47):
Yes, right, yes, it was justeating the food.
I, you know I wasn't sittingthere, do I don't know what I'm
trying to exactly say.
It was really like my wholelifestyle would have been
overhauled to a point where Ithink I get what you're to such
a degree where I'd feel souncomfortable that I was like
you know what?
I don't want to do this work.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Right, Exactly you, really.
Yes, it does make sense.
I think you're speaking to the.
You know people have a hugefear that things are going to
drastically change.
They're going to feel souncomfortable.
Things are going to bedifferent because they really
play out all these like, reallythese fears of like I don't know
.
I don't feel like myself, rightyou?
know, I mean you would have tojust like overhaul your whole
(23:25):
life, right, right, and that'sjust out of your window of
tolerance.
People can't do it that way.
You have to take baby steps tobe like I'm safe here, I'm
comfortable here, I can do thisto be able to, to get there.
But that is such a that is sucha fear.
That's why some people dive,jump right into the pool and
some people dip their toes andit's different for everyone.
(23:45):
Totally.
It depends on you know whereyou're at and everyone's journey
Totally, so that that makes allthe sense.
I just got the 10 minutereminder that we're, that we
have 10 minutes.
I'm curious.
So anything else that you wouldlike people to know, to give
them some hope or to shareanything?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
you know, don't get me make me emotional, please.
I don't when you enter thisspace and you choose yourself,
um, you are giving yourself ahuge gift.
It doesn't feel like it in themoment.
It really doesn't.
It doesn't feel like the whenyou're, um, gonna entertain the
(24:31):
idea of maybe changingeverything, that you know that,
like, you're gonna be safe, orthat things could get better.
They, they can, they theyreally can.
And I remember you saying to meyou know, kate, what's the
what's like the worst thingthat's going to happen if you
(24:51):
give up your behaviors orbulimic behaviors.
You're binging and you'repurging.
You know what's if you give itup, you can always.
You can always.
I mean really, you said you canalways go back to it and you
weren't wrong.
Yeah, um, and I felt a lot offreedom to say you know what,
kate, if you hate this so badand you really this isn't for
(25:15):
you, jamie's not wrong, it's not.
There's nothing stopping youfrom going back to um, to those
behaviors.
But why don't just try this,try it, try it.
What's the worst that can happen?
Yeah, not that I would.
I'm giving people permissionexplicitly to I cause I I do
(25:37):
feel like a lot of my behaviorswere self harming, really and
truly, but it's okay to try.
It's something different.
I remember you saying that andthat was incredibly.
That gave me like the space toeven entertain, to do the work
right, because I have yourfreedom and autonomy and that
(25:58):
and I say that to this day witheveryone, cause I think you need
, even for myself, exploringscary things in life in general.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You have to.
You owe it to yourself toexperiment, but and you also
have your very real protectiveparts and behaviors that you
know you might feel the need togo back to and you don't want
anyone taking that away from you.
No one's you can say that so toknow, like, why not?
You just haven't explored thisother thing and you most likely
(26:27):
will find that, oh, thisactually feels way better and
feels way more protective andfeels way more respectful than
maybe this other thing, but it'sstill there for you.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You can but you have to give it time.
I think the one takeaway Iwould say is that, even five
years out, there are things thatI would love to tweak and, you
know, make perfect.
If I could, um, that might be alifelong battle for me, or
struggle, or maybe that's notthe right words.
I want choice, I like lifelong.
We'd be making these choicesfor a long time.
(27:00):
Um, but give it time.
Right, like mess up, start allover again, try something
different, like, if you'rewilling to do the work, there's
no one linear way to do it.
Keep at it, keep working at it.
It doesn't have.
You don't have to choose oneroute to recovery, and for me,
(27:22):
recovery from many things hasnot been linear at all, and
that's okay too, because if Ionly thought that the only way I
was going to recover was tojust go up, up, up, up, up, up
up, I might as well have juststayed in my disordered eating
forever.
I've just been like you knowwhat up up, up up.
I might as well have juststayed in my disordered eating
forever, right, and it's beenlike you know what the first
(27:42):
time right, like that was justdisheartening and discouraging,
because then you think, oh, Imust be failing, because I'm
this is not going up, up, up, orit's not linear, it's quote,
unquote.
used to behave like I say todayor at this moment it really is
not a linear path, and that's Ithink that's normal, I think
(28:04):
that's healthy, because youlearn so much you really do.
Yeah, like so much from fromlike relapsing, coming back and
trying differently and tweakingit, and like evaluating.
I mean right, I think it's soimportant to fail, I think it's
so important part of it, youhave to fail.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I like invite people to fail.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
They're learning, you're not learning, you can
give them all the tools, butuntil they sort of have that
moment that like come to Jesusmoment where they're struggling
again and maybe they, like youknow, use their behaviors and
they're like you know, and then,but then you reevaluate right,
tweak it yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
And then the part that you started with, which is
investing in yourself.
People have, I think, have avery hard time choosing to.
Well, first of all, it'suncomfortable, but also choosing
to oh, it's super uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
It's the most uncomfortable thing I've ever
done.
Yes, yes, absolutely, easily,easily the most uncomfortable
thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Just getting on this, our first conversation, I was
like what am I doing?
Yes, why am I doing this?
Am I serious right now?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It's so great.
You kind of you know you haveto follow your discomfort.
If something's making youuncomfortable, it's something to
get really curious about,because that's where, like, a
lot of growth happens.
So I'm so glad that youinvested in yourself and I think
that's a great message forfolks out there is.
You know, it's it really, yeah,yeah, absolutely well, there's
nothing to lose, really.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I mean, if you hate it, then you hate it.
I mean, that's not.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's maybe not the best way to leave it, but no,
but it's true, like experiment,you owe yourself to experiment,
if there, I mean if you've madeit this far right if you've made
it this far, to where you'repotentially meeting with Jamie,
you're in a good space to liketry something out.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah Right, If you're here, let's.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Let's like walk through the store and see what
happens, yeah absolutely Ifthere's a part of you that feels
strongly like what I'm doingisn't working.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
What I'm doing doesn't feel good and I hope
especially if it doesn't feelgood especially that's when I
came to you because it doesn't.
It wasn't at that point whereit wasn't feeling good anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yes, absolutely, and you owe it to yourself to listen
to that part.
Sometimes your, your safetyparts, are like it's okay if it
doesn't feel good, like I.
You know, this is what feelssafe.
This is what feels comfortable.
This is what we know.
Listening to that self partthat's like this doesn't feel
compassionate.
I am curious about somethingdifferent.
I want to be courageous and trythat out.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
You know that is the curiosity and see where it leads
you.
You might be surprised.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Thank you so much, kate.
This is so helpful.
I know I help people to hearthis and I I'm so proud of you.
It's so cool to see all thehard work obviously has paid off
tremendously Very proud of you.
I'm so proud of you.
It's so cool to see all thehard work.
Obviously it has paid offtremendously.
Very proud of you.
I'm very excited for people tohear it.
I just really appreciate yourtime.
Thank you, jamie, you're thebest yeah it was really good
(31:29):
reconnecting as well.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
So good to talk to you.
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