Electric Vehicles and Fire Safety: Are We Prepared for the Future? #31

On today’s episode of Black Beauty Jag, Chloe and Caesar kick off a gripping three-part deep dive into Europe’s ambitious shift to electric vehicles—and the urgent, sometimes hidden challenges that come with it. The conversation opens with a harrowing real-life incident outside Madrid, where a simple mistake behind the wheel of an electric car spiraled into tragedy for first responders. This story sets the stage for discussing the rarely talked about complexities of EV safety—think thermal runaway, toxic fumes, and why putting out one of these fires isn’t anything like battling a traditional car blaze.

“Alcorcon is just a stark, tragic reminder of these profound questions that need profound answers continent wide, especially as EV adoption keeps accelerating.”  -Chloe [17:30]

But it’s not just about the risks. Chloe and Caesar break down the data, challenging the sensational headlines by comparing EV fire rates to those of combustion engines and shedding light on what’s perception versus reality. Plus, they peel back the layers on how fire departments around the world, from Virginia to Poland, are scrambling to adapt, retrain, and overcome the new risks posed by this electrifying transition.

• The Alcorcon incident serves as a profound reminder of the safety challenges associated with electric vehicles. A bit reminiscent of our California fires, too.
• Data indicates that electric vehicles are statistically less prone to fire than traditional combustion engine vehicles.
• The unique hazards posed by electric vehicle fires necessitate specialized training for firefighters and responders.

Join Chloe and Caesar as they pull insights from on-the-ground accounts, explore monumental infrastructure hurdles, and lay out what’s really at stake for Europe’s economy, environment, and the global race to build a better battery. Buckle up—it’s a thought-provoking, eye-opening journey through the present and future of electric mobility.

Chapters

• 01:41 Examining the Future
• 05:01 The Tragic Incident in Alcorcon
• 08:24 The Unique Challenges of EV Fires
• 11:07 Thermal Runaway in Electric Vehicle Batteries
• 18:27 The Fire Hazard Debate: EVs vs ICE Vehicles
• 25:27 Exploring the Safety of Electric Vehicles

Episode Resources

• Why Europe Has Doubts on the Gas Car Ban [Wall Street Journal]
• Why Europe is Rethinking Its Bold Plan to Phase Out Gas Cars [illuminem.com]
• Two Firefighters Lost Their Lives [SurinEnglish.com]
• Black Beauty Jag | Jaguar’s Experimentation with “Woke” Marketing #24 [Black Beauty Jag Podcast Episode]
• Jaguar CEO Shakeup: Is It Really the Pink Car? #30 [Black Beauty Jag Podcast Episode]

Episode Credits

Various fun sounds throughout this episode are either created within our studio or downloaded and licensed from Envato, with final mastering done in Seaside Records Studios.

Chloe and Caesar are AI synthetic voices. The content is put together by the Black Beauty Jag Podcast team and fed into the AI tool for Chloe...

Episode Transcript

(01:32):
Picture this. A seeminglyordinary Wednesday afternoon in Al
Corkan just outside Madrid. Aman, 60s, maybe, parking his electric
car in an underground garage.
Routine stuff, you know,happens all the time.
Exactly. But then apparentlyhe made a mistake and hit the accelerator
instead of the brake and bangsinto a column. What follows? Well,
it's just a nightmare.
Yeah. The reports were devastating.

(01:54):
Two firefighters lose theirlives, 14 injured, eight in the initial
reports. They're pointingstraight at the electric vehicle
now. This isn't just, youknow, a tragic local story. It feels
like a really vivid, almostchilling illustration of these complex,
often hidden challenges thatcome with this huge shift to electric
vehicles, especially inEurope. And here's where it gets
really interesting andhonestly, maybe pivotal for the whole

(02:17):
continent.
Oh, but first, what is ourtopic today, Caesar?
Well, we were actually goingto talk about Europe and the EU and
their future goals as far asev, you know, and how that impacts
Jaguar Land Rover with futureplans and all. But wow, Chloe, the
amount of research we pulled,it has turned out to be three episodes
of Black Beauty Jag. So wewill start with this first episode

(02:37):
and give some context. As Iwas mentioning about Europe just
four years back, Europe wasreally out front, wasn't it? Leading
the charge on climate, settingthese super ambitious goals.
The 2035 target. And I lookforward to digging in deep in this
topic over the next three episodes.
Yeah, the EV only future andban new gas and diesel sales by 2035.

(02:59):
They called it a generationaltask. Right. Save the planet, put
Europe's car industry at theforefront of innovation.
Sounded great. On paper.
It did. But as we dig into,well, a whole stack of sources today,
some fascinating, some prettyconcerning, we're seeing real signs
that this bold plan, it'shitting a serious crossroads.
A moment of truth, maybe?
Exactly. So the big questionwe want to explore is are they going

(03:22):
full speed ahead with that EVonly mandate no matter what, or are
they actually rethinking it,maybe bending to economic pressures?
These safety concerns that weare seeing and touched on give us
pause to think. I mean, thereis the sheer massive scale of infrastructure
change that's needed. Right.That's what we will discuss today
is how much there is to consider.
Indeed. And that's really ourmission today, isn't it? To pull

(03:43):
out the most important bits ofknowledge from these articles, the
research, even some reallydirect on the ground accounts. We'll
look at the actual data behindEV safety, you know, get beyond the
headlines. We'll dissect thefront. Frankly, harsh economic realities
facing European carmakersright now. That also gives us perspective

(04:05):
for the future in the UnitedStates and other countries as well.
Tough times for them,definitely. When I think of all that
the EU has to consider, we'llalso delve.
Into that grand, ambitiousvision for a European battery industry
building their own supply chain.
The sovereignty piece.
Exactly. And finally shine alight on something often overlooked,

(04:26):
the massive, silent job ofupgrading the entire continent's
electricity grid.
Huge.
So we'll help you understandnot just what's happening across
Europe in this transition, butwhy it all matters. What are the
implications for Europe'sfuture, its economy, environment,
its global standing? And maybeyou know what lessons we can learn

(04:48):
beyond Europe too. So, kickingthings off, what really stands out
to you, especially thinkingback to what we were discussing at
the beginning of our episodetoday, that tragic event in Alcorcon.
What immediately grabs you,and it is frankly quite chilling,
is that incident in AlcorconMadrid, on a seemingly normal Wednesday
afternoon. What should havebeen a standard response to a garage

(05:10):
fire turned into this absolutedevastation. Two firefighters dead,
14 others injured.
Terrible. And one neededintubation. Right.

(06:44):
Serious condition. Yeah. Hewas transferred to Getaf Hospital,
which is one of the tertiarycare hospitals, as in advanced care.
Another resident neededhospital care too. Just awful. And
the initial theories werereally sobering. Fire breaks out
around 4pm in the undergroundgarage. The car involved was an electric
one, apparently crashed. Asthe owner, that man in his 60s that
I mentioned was driving itinto the garage.

(07:05):
The accelerator, brake mix up?Yeah, that's it.
Reports suggest, hit a columnand that impact, they think, triggered
the fire in the EV battery.The first firefighter tragically
was caught in a blast. Itaffected several other parked cars,
which tells you somethingabout the force, the virulence of
it.
Alright, that explosive potential.
And the second firefighterdied from fume inhalation during

(07:26):
transport to the hospital. Allof the members of the Al Korkon Fire
Brigade just doing their job.The conditions they faced sound horrific.
Almost like a perfect storm.The explosion, the intense flames,
the thick smoke. So bad thatresidents nearby had to be confined
to their homes. Wow. And whatmade it extra dangerous was the garage
itself, the layout. It hadhardly any ventilation.

(07:46):
That's critical in these situations.
Absolutely. So the heat fromthat initial fire just built up,
couldn't dissipate.Temperatures inside got very high,
making it almost impossible toapproach safely. It caused other
parked cars to explode too.Just chaos made extinguishing it
incredibly difficult.
A cascading failure.
You had firefighters from theMadrid region rushing in, loads of

(08:07):
emergency vehicles. Localregional government delegates on
scene, including the Madridregion. President Isabel Diaz Ayuso
expressing her regret. Aprofound loss really underscored
by the fact it involved an ev,which, you know, immediately raises
these questions.
It really does. And what's,well, tragically fascinating here
is how incidents like Alcorconhighlight these unique critical challenges

(08:32):
for emergency responders.Things they just didn't face routinely
with old style combustionengines. Underground garages, especially
the compact ones you see allover urban Europe, they basically
act like concrete boxes.
Sealed environments, pretty much.
So if smoke, and crucially,these massive amounts of flammable

(08:53):
gases, which we'll get into,build up in these confined, poorly
ventilated spaces, it's notjust about firefighters not being
able to see. No. It creates ahighly explosive environment, a serious
deflagration house.
Deflagration? What's that exactly?
It's where flammable gasesignite very rapidly. Maybe not a

(09:14):
full detonation like highexplosives, but a fast moving flame
front with the powerfulpressure wave. Enough to cause catastrophic
damage in a confined space.
Like we saw in Al Khorken,with the blast affecting other cars.
Precisely. We've seen similarthings, maybe less tragic, but similar
dynamics. In shippingcontainers or trailers carrying damaged

(09:37):
lithium ion batteries, thetrapped gases ignite violently. That
lack of ventilation inAlcorcon, a massive compounding factor.
And it's really important tounderstand the smoke itself. It's
not your average car fire. Smoke?
How so?
Okay, all modern cars, petrolor electric, are full of plastics,
foam, rubber. That stuff burnsnasty anyway, right?

(10:00):
Lots of chemicals.
But EVs add another layer fromthe battery itself. You're dealing
with heavy metals andfluorinated compounds.
Fluorinated compounds? Thatsounds bad.
It is. These aren't typicalsmoke components. Fluorinated compounds,
for instance, can react withwater, even just moisture in the
air, to form hydrofluoric acid.

(10:22):
Acid, yeah.
And it's highly corrosive,really dangerous stuff. It poses
severe long term health risksfor firefighters. It can cause deep
tissue damage, even systemicpoisoning. It requires special decontamination
for their gear. It doesn'tjust air out, it lingers. It contaminates

(10:42):
gear. It's not something youwant to be breathing. It's a unique,
insidious chemical threat farbeyond a standard combustion engine
fire. This whole incident justscreams the need for specialized
awareness and tactics forthese new fire types. It's a global
challenge for fire departments.
You've painted a very clearand, yeah, pretty disturbing picture

(11:04):
of the gases, thecontaminants, that unique garage
environment. Which leads usstraight to this critical term. You
hear A lot. Thermal runaway.Can you really break down what exactly
happens when an EEV batterygoes into thermal runaway? And crucially,
how does that chemical processjust completely change the game for
firefighters compared to, say,a regular car fire?
Okay, thermal runaway.Basically, it's a self sustaining,

(11:26):
escalating chain reaction ofheat and pressure inside the battery
pack itself.
A chain reaction?
Yeah. Think of it likedominoes. One battery cell fails,
it heats up, rapid releasesits stored energy and gases. That
heat and pressure then causethe cell next to it to fail, and
so on. It cascades through the pack.

(11:46):
So those popping sounds yousometimes hear described, right?
That's exactly it. Thosepopping or hissing sounds, that's
individual battery cellsrupturing, venting their contents.
Each pop is another cellfailing. And once this chain reaction
kicks off, it's absolutelycrucial to grasp this. You're not

(12:08):
stopping it by knocking downthe flames you see on the outside
of the car.
Really? So dousing it withwater doesn't stop?
No, the core problem, not theinternal reaction. Those visible
flames are often just thesymptom, the external sign of a much
deeper internal process withinthe battery pack itself. A process
that's incredibly hard, maybeimpossible to halt once it really

(12:30):
gets going. It's like tryingto put out a forest fire by just
fanning away the smoke. Now, akey hazard, and one that's often
dangerously misunderstood, isthe release of massive amounts of
flammable gas. This can happenbefore you even see flames or during
the fire.
Massive amounts?
Yeah, huge volumes. Take ahigh voltage battery, like in a port

(12:55):
to Taycan. Similar type to thecar in the Alcorcon incident. Potentially
it could vent something like50,000 liters of gas during a thermal
event. That is,conservatively, 50,000 liters.
50,000 liters. That's enormous.
It is. It's not just a littlevapor. It's a huge cloud of highly

(13:16):
combustible material. Theexact mix depends on the battery
chemistry, but you could belooking at, say, 13,000 liters of
hydrogen, 15,000 liters ofcarbon monoxide, which is highly
flammable, and another 5,000liters of various other flammable
hydrocarbons. Now, imaginethose gases accumulating in a confined,

(13:40):
poorly ventilated space likethat underground garage or a shipping
container. You've created anincredibly dangerous, potentially
explosive atmosphere, justwaiting for an ignition source for
a deflagration or maybe worse.And this leads to a firefighting
strategy that soundscompletely backwards compared to

(14:03):
decades of training. It'soften called let it burn.
Let it burn. That sounds wrong.
It sounds counterintuitive. Iknow. But let me be absolutely clear.
It doesn't mean letting thewhole car burn down and become a
total write off. Firefightersabsolutely will and should attack
the fire in the car's cabin.The plastics, rubber, seats, anything

(14:26):
burning outside the batterypack, put that out, protect surrounding
property, control the scene.
Right. Standard procedure forthe non battery parts.
Exactly. But when the batterybox itself starts venting those flammable
gases we talked about,sometimes the best strategy is to
let those gases burn off in acontrolled way. Allow the vapors

(14:49):
to be safely consumed as theyescape the pack. And I don't mean
consumed by humans or livingcreatures. I mean in a controlled
manner.
So the flames coming from thebattery vents are actually safer
in a way?
Paradoxically, yes. If you tryto knock that fire out too early,
say by aggressively coolingthe battery surface or smothering

(15:11):
the external flames, you mightactually make things worse. Oh. You
risk stopping the burning ofthose escaping gases, allowing them
to build up instead, eitherinside the battery pack or in the
surrounding confined space.And that leads to a much higher risk
of a dangerous deflagration orexplosion later on. Exactly the kind

(15:34):
of thing feared in Alcorcon.
So those lazy open flames fromthe battery vents are burning off
the fuel.
Yes. Preventing a bigger ormore catastrophic event down the
line. It's a very differentmindset. And the firefighting itself
is complicated by the batterypack design. Getting water to the
right place, meaning insidethe pack where the runaway is happening,

(15:58):
is incredibly tough.
Why is that?
Because of the batteriesconstruction. They're built tough.
Robust casings, specificshapes and sizes, different cell
chemistries, heavy dutyprotection around the pack, complex
internal thermal management systems.
Lots of barriers.
Exactly. So just sprayingwater on the outside surface, cooling

(16:20):
it might help, it might not.It's frustrating for firefighters
because there's no singlemagic bullet. Every EV model, every
battery variant can behave differently.
So no one size fits all approach?
Not at all. And fire safetyexperts are very clear. Foam on an
electric vehicle fire iswasting money at that point. It just

(16:42):
doesn't work. It can'tpenetrate the sealed battery pack
to get at the root cause, thethermal runaway inside the cells.
Traditional methods often fallshort or even counterproductive.
Which brings us right back tothe critical need for proactive,
specialized training. Firedepartments everywhere are scrambling
to adapt.

(17:03):
You mentioned Virginia.
Yeah. Chesterfield County Fireand EMS in Virginia, they've been
impressively ahead of thecurve. Started EV battery training
back in 2021.
Early adopters.
Very. And now the whole stateof Virginia is requiring all firefighters
to get similar Specializedtraining by the end of this year,

(17:23):
which is great for safety, butit's a huge logistical undertaking.
Yeah, retraining an entire workforce.
Exactly. And it raises thesebig questions. Are fire departments
across Europe and globallytruly equipped for these unique hazards,
especially in dense urbanareas with lots of those underground
garages? And are the garagesthemselves even designed for these

(17:47):
new fire loads? The sheerenergy density in EV batteries, crucially,
those deflagration hazardsthat just weren't a significant concern
with petrol or diesel cars.Alcorcon is just a stark, tragic
reminder of these profoundquestions that need profound answers

(18:07):
continent wide, especially asEV adoption keeps accelerating.
That's a lot to take in aboutthe immediate dangers, the complexities
for first responders. And itfeeds right into that common narrative
you sometimes hear, often bysensationalists, doesn't it, that
EVs are inherently a fire hazard.
Yeah, you hear that a lot.
So let's tackle that head on.Is it true? Are EVs actually more

(18:31):
prone to fire than traditionalcombustion engine cars? Or is the
public perception gettingskewed because these fires, when
they happen, are just sodramatic and difficult to handle?
It's a really commoncriticism. And yeah, it definitely
generates headlines preciselybecause these fires are so unique
and challenging, as we've just discussed.
The drama factor.
Exactly. But when you actuallylook at the latest comprehensive

(18:54):
data, the picture is quitedifferent from that widespread perception.
New data from Poland's StateFire Service, quoted by their new
mobility association PSNM,shows EVs are largely on par with
combustion cars when you lookat the raw frequency of fires.
On par, not worse.
Statistically, yes. It's acritical distinction. Let's dig into

(19:17):
those specific Polish numbers.For the first half of 2025 January
to June, total vehicle firesreported across Poland. 4712. Out
of those, a huge majority.4636. That's 98.4% were pure combustion
cars.
Oh, wow. Nearly all of them, yeah.

(19:39):
In contrast, only 23 firesinvolved fully electric vehicles.
That's less than half apercent of the total. Another 54
fires were hybrids or plug in hybrids.
Okay, but EVs are still asmaller part of the fleet, right?
Does that skew it?
That's a fair point. EV marketshare in Poland, while growing, was

(20:00):
around 8%, maybe end of July.So the better comparison is the incident
rate per 1000 registered vehicles.

(21:28):
Makes sense.
And even using that metric,combustion cars and fully electric
cars are basically tied.Statistically, indistinguishable
at 0.23 fires per 1,000registered vehicles for both. And
interestingly, hybrids andplug in hybrids actually come out
even lower at just 0.04 firesper 1,000, suggesting they're the

(21:52):
least prone to fire, based onthis data. And if you look at the
longer term Polish data, sayfrom 2020 right through to 2025,
the trend holds up remarkably well.
Consistent then.
Very. Out of over 51,000 totalvehicle fires in that period, more
than 50,833, which is 99.39%,were internal combustion engines.

(22:21):
Only 87, a tiny 0.17% werefully electric vehicles. Hybrids
and plugins accounted forabout 0.43%.
The numbers are pretty starkwhen you see them like that.
They are. And it's also worthnoting what the Polish State Fire
Service identified as thecauses of those EV fires. Main reasons,

(22:44):
malfunction, then fire thatspread from another source. Meaning
the EV wasn't the origin in accidents.
Ah, so not always the batteryspontaneously combusting.
Exactly. And crucially, theyalso pointed out that in only half
of the EV fires recorded inPoland, a battery fire occurred.

(23:04):
So even when an EV catchesfire, it's not always the high voltage
battery itself. That's theprimary issue. Could be other electrical
systems or external factors.And this Polish data, it lines up
really well with what we'veseen from other countries too. It
reinforces the overallstatistical picture. Like where Sweden,

(23:25):
for instance, their Civilcontingencies agency, the MSB, reported
back in 2022 they had 23 EVfires out of over 611,000 EVs on
the road. That's a rate ofjust 0.0004%.
Tiny.
Incredibly low. Compare thatto 3,400 fires on Sweden's 4.4 million

(23:50):
petrol and diesel cars. That'sa rate of 0.08%, significantly higher
for combustion vehicles. Sostatistically, the data consistently
points towards EVs not beingmore prone to fire than combustion
vehicles. In fact, the numbersoften suggest they're quite a bit
less prone.

(24:10):
So that's a really importantclarification. The data definitely
helps separate perception fromreality there. The headlines clearly
don't tell the whole story.But if EVs are statistically less
prone to fire, why doincidents like Alcorcon seem to stick
in our mind so vividly? Isthere something about the nature
of the fire when it doeshappen that makes it particularly
alarming regardless of howoften it occurs?

(24:31):
I think that's exactly it.
Because as you highlighted,the sheer difficulty of putting out
a high voltage battery fireonce it does happen and goes into
thermal runaway. That remainsa very real and scary aspect. Now,
you mentioned an interestingstrategy that automakers are recommending
completely submerging thevehicle for hours. What?
Was that true? And thatstrategy that is being used, it is

(24:53):
called dunk tanks.
Dunk tanks, yes. Whichobviously raises huge logistical
questions for cities, forparking garage design, for how emergency
services are equipped andfunded. They need a unique resource,
heavy response for these rarebut challenging events. Something
totally different from whatthey've trained for over decades.
It feels like it's as much apsychological impact as a statistical

(25:15):
one.
Exactly. The fear factor isreal, even if the statistical risk
is lower.
Okay, so we've explored theimmediate dangers, the complexities
of EV fires, the realities forfirst responders. It's clear that
safety is one big piece ofEurope's EV puzzle.
And we have covered quite abit, Caesar. Now it is time for us

(25:35):
to close out this episode ofBlack Beauty Jag and gear up for
the next episodes. Andcontinuing this discussion, talking
about batteries, production,the grid, etc.
I look forward to it, Chloe.See you all there, friends.