September 2, 2025 • 17 mins
In this week’s episode, I sit down with Tommy Hicks, Head of Cultural and Community at Indigenous Energy Australia, recorded at the First Nations Clean Energy Network Summit on the Sunshine Coast.
Tommy shares his journey as a proud Badimia-Yamatji & Narungga man working at the intersection of culture, community, and infrastructure. He opens up about the importance of storytelling, relationship-building, and place-based knowledge in driving genuine progress across the clean energy and infrastructure sectors.
Together, we explore what it means to put relationships before projects, how to stay grounded while leading in fast-paced industries, and the challenges and opportunities of scaling impact while staying true to community values. We also yarn about identity, resilience, and the lessons Tommy has learned as a young business leader creating pathways for the next generation.
This is an inspiring conversation about culture, leadership, and why centring Aboriginal ways of knowing and being is critical to building a healthy, sustainable future for all.
Resources & Links
First Nations Clean Energy Network
https://www.firstnationscleanenergy.org.au/
Website: www.blackmagicwoman.com.au
Follow us on Instagram - @blackmagicwomanpodcast
The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Black Cast, Unite our voices.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bailey.
Hey you Mob, Welcome back to this special episode at
the First Nation's Clean Energy Network Summit here on the
Sunshine Coast, which brings this guest here to the table,
(00:31):
brings me to a conversation that I had at a summit,
the Indigenous Leadership Summit in nam and Michael Frangos jumped
on and had a yarn as a non Indigenous brother.
But this is a yarn that kind of connects from
that one and brings you to this conversation with this
(00:52):
brother here. So too, the listeners and the viewers on YouTube,
do you want to share a little bit about yourself,
so your name, your mob, and a little bit about
where you grew up?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Tommy Hicks, Head of Cultural and Community and Indigenous Entergy Australia.
But on my mother's side, so kind of that place
northeast of Perth, and people always ask me what's out there,
and there's not a whole heap to describe, so it's
near and then I'm Norunger on my father's side, so
butterfish people from the Openinsula in South Australia.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Living in Perth.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Allegedly, Yeah, I spent a lot of time in the
Virgin Lounge. In the Virgin Lounge, yeah yeah, clocking up
the km so yeah, yeah, the team shipsing around the
country to do a few bits and pieces.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
So privileged privilege was how much of the country I
get to see?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I was gonna say, in terms about talking about country,
that's what we're doing here at this summit.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
What's been some of the highlights for you so far?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Just the people Always I think, like, like you know,
I just did a chart and in my acknowledgment and
country always talking about country for me being being about
stories and stories of place, but also stories of people
and getting to getting to kind of like bump into
each other and let stories bounce off. I want another
that's people you've seen and new people you've met, and
(02:07):
just getting to learn different things from different people and
also have the things, you know, kind of reinforced or
seeds that have been planned with you watered a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
That's always a highlight for me.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I love that seeds that have been planned and need
watering a little bit. I always think about these opportunities,
as you know, we get together. We have all these yarns,
non abitional people coming here, and then there's nothing. It's
like radio silence. How have you been able to kind
of stay engaged with these conversations or make sure that
(02:38):
some of these seeds that have been planted actually you know,
start growing and you know there's conversations keep happening.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Look, I'm privileged enough to work directly in this industry,
Like I'm in the thick of a lot of weather
work happens, and I think what makes it feel like
nothing is that it's the space, you know, so we
don't always get to see each other. And it's really
fast paced industry in general. So like you blink sometimes
and you haven't seen Fallows for six months and you're like, oh,
(03:09):
what's going on again?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So how do I stay engaged?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Look privileged enough to be a shareholder in our company
as well, and the decision making out that director level
is very aligned, and we make sure we put our
gennas on the ground everywhere we go and soak those
things up. So taking the time to talk to people
or take a phone call or have a chat on
a Sunday with fellows, I just have a question, is
(03:33):
how I really stay connected to this space, but I
guess hear the themes of the conversations when you're back
in a place like this some good where we've had breakthroughs,
but definitely not at the scale.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Tell me about the work that you do.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
What we call ourselves an advert consultant, So we're kind
of coining that term at the moment, so advocate consultant.
It's a really nice way to say, we'll argue with
you about the job first and then make sure the
job gets done right.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So now we consult in infrastructure.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
So it's a lot of kind of like the main
two things are engagement and then infrastructure advisory, but the
high level thing and you know, Michael probably unpack this
quite a bit in his episode, but it's just about
again now it comes from a mob out of infrastructure,
infrastructure being those kind of physical foundations of life. So
we'll get involved with anything, you know. Two weeks ago
(04:23):
I was in Parliament having a chat with the Federal Minister.
And last week I was in four regional towns of
New South when I was talking about water and rits
and listening to people's stories about living themissions by the
Creek and how that water body has changed and those
types of things. So it takes me all the way
across the spectrum in different spaces.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And what have you seen in terms of progress in
the work that you do, the space that you're in
in the sector in general?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
I think people's capability, Like it is a new space.
This industry is quite quite young, and my background has
been in like education, social work, systems, design that type
of stuff. So for me, I'm eighteen months in full
time and it's like there's been people kind of like
growing on that journey with me as well and being
(05:11):
able to kind of transfer a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
But I think, yeah, people's really.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Starting to kind of understand the space, and particularly you know,
I think in NATOK and that next generation comes through
just just bumping into some pretty pretty smooth young operators
around there doing really good things. Yeah, I think that
that's something that can continues to change and grow.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And in terms of within the business, have you got
staff that you're employing now, what does it look like?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yeah, Look, any professional services firm grows and shrinks, so
so you know, we've had a bit of a growing
a shrink lately, which is which is really good.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
One some new projects.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
But there's about probably roughly twenty of us at the moment,
and we've got plans to grow. And the growth for
us has really been about scaling impact rather than you know,
scaling scaling the bank balance.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So yeah, to bring people on.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I had eighteen staff two years ago, down to like seven.
But the impact in other works that I do as
a consultant, delivery, training and supporting, just uplifting the cultural
capability and confidence for my clients to then engage with
people like you, but more particular, like just any black
follower in general, how do people operate on Aboriginal terms
(06:26):
as a non avitual person.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
How can they you know? Well, more importantly, they.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Need to see themselves as visitors on other people's countries,
not experts, and they need to realize that when they're
on our turf or in our communities, that they should
be students and they're there to learn from us, and
we will teach them much more than you know they're
going to teach us. So trying to get them to
understand these two very different worlds and how they can
(06:55):
navigate these two worlds. So it's kind of like we're
trying to assimilate them into being black fellows and we'll
get better outcomes, right if they understood there's really deep
it's kind of this like relationality, like this ethos of
how Aboriginal people are connected to land and that deep
sense of obligation to look after land and if we
(07:16):
can get that right, then the.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Land will look after us.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
So how do we get non Aboriginal people to really
see this as an area of interest, Like it's kind
of urgent when you think about climate change.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, and it's a great question. And what I'm going
to say is fundamentally at odds with speed.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
But it's it's it's mostly.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
About why, you know, Like it's I was just on
stage and I said, you know, we really should be
growing things out of why. And to bring non Aboriginal
people into that space and help them understand our why
starts to really paint a picture of how we operate
and how we prioritize and how we make decisions. And
to me and and you mentioned traveling from people's countries
(07:59):
and other people's countries being really good at having cultural capability,
it's less about knowing and it's more about knowing what
to ask. You know, you move through that process always
put that relationship first and business grows from that. And
we take the same approach with our company and saying,
let's establish a relationship that a project fits into. Let's
not try and cram a relationship into a project. So yeah,
(08:21):
really really helping them understand that way.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I think, what's some of the lessons that you've learned
being in business that you could share with some of
our listeners, especially young mob It might be in their startup,
they might be a little bit more mature, it might
be struggling.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I think, Look, my sense of identity helps me step
into a lot of these spaces and it really helps me.
I always say I'm pretty good, I kind of popping
my head above the tall grass and saying, you know,
are we going in the right direction here, and actively
play that role for the company. But if I to
give any advice, it's really get comfortable speaking from your perspective.
And it's funny that a lot of the things that
(09:04):
make my methodology all the things we do as a
company really work.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
It's things I was taught as a.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Young person, like really young before I even started my career,
So just how to move and how to speak and
connect with people, and showface and those different types of things.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You start working that into how you do your work.
So I think really, if.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
You, especially if you work with black flos, really really
trusting that and then a bit more from the scary
perspective as to see of agendas out there and really
taking the time to kind of hear what other people's
wives are will really really help you navigate some of
those spaces really well. So listening and responding accordingly, what
(09:42):
are you.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Most proud of in terms of some of your business achievements?
Speaker 4 (09:47):
To be honest, I pinched myself sometimes just to think, like,
I work for a house that I've played a huge
role in building, you know, and I take massive pride
in knowing there's about, you know, fifteen kids of our company,
and I play a big role in putting food on
the table, center to school, or getting them a body
electric secuter and those types of things. That's a huge thing.
(10:09):
I think business will always be business and we'll grow
and adjust. But again, the people that I work with
and for, we always describe us we're more of a
community than a company, and we are community that can
operate in the corporate space.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We're not corporates that can reach back into our community.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
So just that ethos in our company culture is something
I'm incredibly proud of.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Too deadly.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I just want to yel with you, but I know
you've got to get on a plane and jet back
over to Wadjack Nongam learning my words it. I was
schooled by Uncle Laura Maguire teaching me when I was
over there some of the language that I needed to use,
not needed to should use, and just being respectful. And
(10:50):
that's as a black woman going to another country, making
sure that I've got the right people guiding me. And
sometimes that's the problem. You've got people operating in these
spaces and going to the communities with the wrong people
guiding them.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Have you seen that a lot?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I definitely have. And it's a challenge.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
We've got this prerogative to really kind of unite with opportunity,
so we try and use that character get people to
come together and sitting in sitting in those kind of
generational riffs often caused by things like coal mining or
mining and irresponsible business creating has and have not. It's
like we all as black files, we will understand what
those things feel like. And families that haven't spoken for
(11:32):
so long, and those types of things and check native
title into it. Yeah, yeah, all these layers of governance
and rights and you are and you are, and the
complexities about verifying even who you are. Like, you're right,
that guidance is so important and we really I don't
fly in and fly out of communities too much.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Like everything I.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Do, I'd love to employ local people to give me
that context and that type of thing. So the value
put on place based understanding are just boots on the ground, Like,
we value that massively highly. Yeah, and it's and it's yeah,
led to some unbelievable opportunities and wins to deadline.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
So what's on the horizon for you and your company
the work that you're doing, and I think you.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Can share with this.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, look, we're pretty transparent about what we do as well,
and what's on the horizon more growth, I think like
we really we really have taken the time to figure
out if what we do works and now we're confident
in that and we've we've kind of pushed the accelerator
on growing, which comes with a number of challenges, especially
being a young leader like I turned twenty nine on Tuesday,
(12:36):
So still still pretty young for a person working at
this level.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
But happy birthday, Thank you. No, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I think, yeah, there's there's it's just this methodology that works,
I think. And it's just all about understanding what followers
want and understanding how our project or something happening makes
that happen, you know, in a way that's defined by them.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
That's the most important part.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
So really trying to develop our footprint now and get
around the place and pick up some of the circumstances,
you know, And that's the main thing. And we're talking
here about economic development, but coming from that social kind
of background, adopting that first things first stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
You know, if the water don't work, don't worry about
a job, you know, like.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
People are dying twenty years earlier, fifteen years early in
remote places. You get talking about job skills and money
just doesn't cut it at the minute.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So yeah, and here I am like fe feeling really
proud to seeing other black fellows thriving and just reminding
myself of how deadly it is to be a black
feller and just to see other deadly black fellows and
there's not enough of us out there promoting the things
that we're doing. So it's good for podcasts like this
(13:45):
where we can share these stories without big noting, but
just share and you know the work that we do
and what drives us.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I was going to say one last thing before we
wrap up.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
You know you're flying around, You're all over the country,
You're hardly ever home. What do you do in terms
of just kind of I don't know whether it's to
feel your carple to look after your mental health? How
do you how do you look after you?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
It's a great question, to be honest, It's still something
I'm figuring out. Like I kind of grew up as
a young person really have routine, so developing that now
is a challenge, especially with the travel and those types
of things. But the other side of that is I've
always operated in a bit of chaos.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
So still figuring it out. What I do like to
do is connect with people and connect with place. I
love food too, Like I love getting around and be like,
oh yeah, I got to eat at this place.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
With that I have it, Yeah, quite a simple, simple
thing and just but always look forward to geting home
and some serial and PlayStation that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So let's how you switch off because being a business
owner myself, I can't switch off.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
There's just always something to do.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
There's something I forgot, there's another project, another client, another email,
another staff member, another.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Idea, another business.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm constantly, you know, on, switched on, and i sometimes
find it hard to switch off. And I've got kids
that kind of want me to be present and to
be their mum and not just you know, take calls
at all hours of the night.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So I've learned now twelve.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Years in to put boundaries around my time and my energy.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
But very inspiring.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I know a lot of the people that I work
with that are probably some of the people you work with.
We should do another yard where we're not on camera
but talking about business and how we can even refer
work and clients to each other, because there's a lot
of people that probably need the advice that you followers
(15:44):
could give them because it's not the sector that I
play in, but as a black woman that is very
much committed to creating a much more it's not a
better country.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I just want a healthy planet. I want my.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Children and my grandchildren to have access to clean air
and clean water. And that's at the moment, it seems
like a big ask, So thank you for the work
that you're doing and continue to do when you're only
twenty nine far out.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I'm fair really old at the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
For all of you younger mob, it's you know, the
world's your oyster. Take those opportunities with two hands and
run with it. There's nothing stopping us, and there's more
black businesses popping up left, right and center. So I
can't wait to hear more and to follow your journey.
Thank you for stopping in last minute and jumping on
the Black Magic on podcast.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I really appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah, I a bit of a quiet fan and follower
of yours too, so oh stop.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Nice to see all.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
The things you do and give the follows the platform
to kind of say these things. I'm definitely a victim
of not saying enough, like not not really social media operator,
but thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Here we all have a social media now my brother
for all our listeners. If you want to know more,
especially around the clean energy, this space Renewable Energy, the
First Nations Clean Energy Network. There's a lot of resources
on their website, but will also connect you to this
brother's business. So look, Thank you again, safe travels back
(17:13):
to your country, and for our listeners, I hope you've
enjoyed this Deadly yarn. Until next time, bye for now.
If you'd like any more on today's guest, please visit
our show notes in the episode description.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
A big shout out to all you.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Deadly Mob and allies who continue to listen, watch, and
support our podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
The podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to
our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis
Black Cast, Unite our voices.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bailey.
Hey you Mob, Welcome back to this special episode at
the First Nation's Clean Energy Network Summit here on the
Sunshine Coast, which brings this guest here to the table,
(00:31):
brings me to a conversation that I had at a summit,
the Indigenous Leadership Summit in nam and Michael Frangos jumped
on and had a yarn as a non Indigenous brother.
But this is a yarn that kind of connects from
that one and brings you to this conversation with this
(00:52):
brother here. So too, the listeners and the viewers on YouTube,
do you want to share a little bit about yourself,
so your name, your mob, and a little bit about
where you grew up?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Tommy Hicks, Head of Cultural and Community and Indigenous Entergy Australia.
But on my mother's side, so kind of that place
northeast of Perth, and people always ask me what's out there,
and there's not a whole heap to describe, so it's
near and then I'm Norunger on my father's side, so
butterfish people from the Openinsula in South Australia.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Living in Perth.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Allegedly, Yeah, I spent a lot of time in the
Virgin Lounge. In the Virgin Lounge, yeah yeah, clocking up
the km so yeah, yeah, the team shipsing around the
country to do a few bits and pieces.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
So privileged privilege was how much of the country I
get to see?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I was gonna say, in terms about talking about country,
that's what we're doing here at this summit.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
What's been some of the highlights for you so far?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Just the people Always I think, like, like you know,
I just did a chart and in my acknowledgment and
country always talking about country for me being being about
stories and stories of place, but also stories of people
and getting to getting to kind of like bump into
each other and let stories bounce off. I want another
that's people you've seen and new people you've met, and
(02:07):
just getting to learn different things from different people and
also have the things, you know, kind of reinforced or
seeds that have been planned with you watered a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
That's always a highlight for me.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I love that seeds that have been planned and need
watering a little bit. I always think about these opportunities,
as you know, we get together. We have all these yarns,
non abitional people coming here, and then there's nothing. It's
like radio silence. How have you been able to kind
of stay engaged with these conversations or make sure that
(02:38):
some of these seeds that have been planted actually you know,
start growing and you know there's conversations keep happening.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Look, I'm privileged enough to work directly in this industry,
Like I'm in the thick of a lot of weather
work happens, and I think what makes it feel like
nothing is that it's the space, you know, so we
don't always get to see each other. And it's really
fast paced industry in general. So like you blink sometimes
and you haven't seen Fallows for six months and you're like, oh,
(03:09):
what's going on again?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So how do I stay engaged?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Look privileged enough to be a shareholder in our company
as well, and the decision making out that director level
is very aligned, and we make sure we put our
gennas on the ground everywhere we go and soak those
things up. So taking the time to talk to people
or take a phone call or have a chat on
a Sunday with fellows, I just have a question, is
(03:33):
how I really stay connected to this space, but I
guess hear the themes of the conversations when you're back
in a place like this some good where we've had breakthroughs,
but definitely not at the scale.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Tell me about the work that you do.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
What we call ourselves an advert consultant, So we're kind
of coining that term at the moment, so advocate consultant.
It's a really nice way to say, we'll argue with
you about the job first and then make sure the
job gets done right.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So now we consult in infrastructure.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
So it's a lot of kind of like the main
two things are engagement and then infrastructure advisory, but the
high level thing and you know, Michael probably unpack this
quite a bit in his episode, but it's just about
again now it comes from a mob out of infrastructure,
infrastructure being those kind of physical foundations of life. So
we'll get involved with anything, you know. Two weeks ago
(04:23):
I was in Parliament having a chat with the Federal Minister.
And last week I was in four regional towns of
New South when I was talking about water and rits
and listening to people's stories about living themissions by the
Creek and how that water body has changed and those
types of things. So it takes me all the way
across the spectrum in different spaces.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And what have you seen in terms of progress in
the work that you do, the space that you're in
in the sector in general?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
I think people's capability, Like it is a new space.
This industry is quite quite young, and my background has
been in like education, social work, systems, design that type
of stuff. So for me, I'm eighteen months in full
time and it's like there's been people kind of like
growing on that journey with me as well and being
(05:11):
able to kind of transfer a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
But I think, yeah, people's really.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Starting to kind of understand the space, and particularly you know,
I think in NATOK and that next generation comes through
just just bumping into some pretty pretty smooth young operators
around there doing really good things. Yeah, I think that
that's something that can continues to change and grow.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And in terms of within the business, have you got
staff that you're employing now, what does it look like?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yeah, Look, any professional services firm grows and shrinks, so
so you know, we've had a bit of a growing
a shrink lately, which is which is really good.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
One some new projects.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
But there's about probably roughly twenty of us at the moment,
and we've got plans to grow. And the growth for
us has really been about scaling impact rather than you know,
scaling scaling the bank balance.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So yeah, to bring people on.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I had eighteen staff two years ago, down to like seven.
But the impact in other works that I do as
a consultant, delivery, training and supporting, just uplifting the cultural
capability and confidence for my clients to then engage with
people like you, but more particular, like just any black
follower in general, how do people operate on Aboriginal terms
(06:26):
as a non avitual person.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
How can they you know? Well, more importantly, they.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Need to see themselves as visitors on other people's countries,
not experts, and they need to realize that when they're
on our turf or in our communities, that they should
be students and they're there to learn from us, and
we will teach them much more than you know they're
going to teach us. So trying to get them to
understand these two very different worlds and how they can
(06:55):
navigate these two worlds. So it's kind of like we're
trying to assimilate them into being black fellows and we'll
get better outcomes, right if they understood there's really deep
it's kind of this like relationality, like this ethos of
how Aboriginal people are connected to land and that deep
sense of obligation to look after land and if we
(07:16):
can get that right, then the.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Land will look after us.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
So how do we get non Aboriginal people to really
see this as an area of interest, Like it's kind
of urgent when you think about climate change.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, and it's a great question. And what I'm going
to say is fundamentally at odds with speed.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
But it's it's it's mostly.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
About why, you know, Like it's I was just on
stage and I said, you know, we really should be
growing things out of why. And to bring non Aboriginal
people into that space and help them understand our why
starts to really paint a picture of how we operate
and how we prioritize and how we make decisions. And
to me and and you mentioned traveling from people's countries
(07:59):
and other people's countries being really good at having cultural capability,
it's less about knowing and it's more about knowing what
to ask. You know, you move through that process always
put that relationship first and business grows from that. And
we take the same approach with our company and saying,
let's establish a relationship that a project fits into. Let's
not try and cram a relationship into a project. So yeah,
(08:21):
really really helping them understand that way.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I think, what's some of the lessons that you've learned
being in business that you could share with some of
our listeners, especially young mob It might be in their startup,
they might be a little bit more mature, it might
be struggling.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I think, Look, my sense of identity helps me step
into a lot of these spaces and it really helps me.
I always say I'm pretty good, I kind of popping
my head above the tall grass and saying, you know,
are we going in the right direction here, and actively
play that role for the company. But if I to
give any advice, it's really get comfortable speaking from your perspective.
And it's funny that a lot of the things that
(09:04):
make my methodology all the things we do as a
company really work.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
It's things I was taught as a.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Young person, like really young before I even started my career,
So just how to move and how to speak and
connect with people, and showface and those different types of things.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You start working that into how you do your work.
So I think really, if.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
You, especially if you work with black flos, really really
trusting that and then a bit more from the scary
perspective as to see of agendas out there and really
taking the time to kind of hear what other people's
wives are will really really help you navigate some of
those spaces really well. So listening and responding accordingly, what
(09:42):
are you.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Most proud of in terms of some of your business achievements?
Speaker 4 (09:47):
To be honest, I pinched myself sometimes just to think, like,
I work for a house that I've played a huge
role in building, you know, and I take massive pride
in knowing there's about, you know, fifteen kids of our company,
and I play a big role in putting food on
the table, center to school, or getting them a body
electric secuter and those types of things. That's a huge thing.
(10:09):
I think business will always be business and we'll grow
and adjust. But again, the people that I work with
and for, we always describe us we're more of a
community than a company, and we are community that can
operate in the corporate space.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We're not corporates that can reach back into our community.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
So just that ethos in our company culture is something
I'm incredibly proud of.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Too deadly.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I just want to yel with you, but I know
you've got to get on a plane and jet back
over to Wadjack Nongam learning my words it. I was
schooled by Uncle Laura Maguire teaching me when I was
over there some of the language that I needed to use,
not needed to should use, and just being respectful. And
(10:50):
that's as a black woman going to another country, making
sure that I've got the right people guiding me. And
sometimes that's the problem. You've got people operating in these
spaces and going to the communities with the wrong people
guiding them.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Have you seen that a lot?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I definitely have. And it's a challenge.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
We've got this prerogative to really kind of unite with opportunity,
so we try and use that character get people to
come together and sitting in sitting in those kind of
generational riffs often caused by things like coal mining or
mining and irresponsible business creating has and have not. It's
like we all as black files, we will understand what
those things feel like. And families that haven't spoken for
(11:32):
so long, and those types of things and check native
title into it. Yeah, yeah, all these layers of governance
and rights and you are and you are, and the
complexities about verifying even who you are. Like, you're right,
that guidance is so important and we really I don't
fly in and fly out of communities too much.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Like everything I.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Do, I'd love to employ local people to give me
that context and that type of thing. So the value
put on place based understanding are just boots on the ground, Like,
we value that massively highly. Yeah, and it's and it's yeah,
led to some unbelievable opportunities and wins to deadline.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
So what's on the horizon for you and your company
the work that you're doing, and I think you.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Can share with this.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, look, we're pretty transparent about what we do as well,
and what's on the horizon more growth, I think like
we really we really have taken the time to figure
out if what we do works and now we're confident
in that and we've we've kind of pushed the accelerator
on growing, which comes with a number of challenges, especially
being a young leader like I turned twenty nine on Tuesday,
(12:36):
So still still pretty young for a person working at
this level.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
But happy birthday, Thank you. No, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I think, yeah, there's there's it's just this methodology that works,
I think. And it's just all about understanding what followers
want and understanding how our project or something happening makes
that happen, you know, in a way that's defined by them.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
That's the most important part.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
So really trying to develop our footprint now and get
around the place and pick up some of the circumstances,
you know, And that's the main thing. And we're talking
here about economic development, but coming from that social kind
of background, adopting that first things first stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
You know, if the water don't work, don't worry about
a job, you know, like.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
People are dying twenty years earlier, fifteen years early in
remote places. You get talking about job skills and money
just doesn't cut it at the minute.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So yeah, and here I am like fe feeling really
proud to seeing other black fellows thriving and just reminding
myself of how deadly it is to be a black
feller and just to see other deadly black fellows and
there's not enough of us out there promoting the things
that we're doing. So it's good for podcasts like this
(13:45):
where we can share these stories without big noting, but
just share and you know the work that we do
and what drives us.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I was going to say one last thing before we
wrap up.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
You know you're flying around, You're all over the country,
You're hardly ever home. What do you do in terms
of just kind of I don't know whether it's to
feel your carple to look after your mental health? How
do you how do you look after you?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
It's a great question, to be honest, It's still something
I'm figuring out. Like I kind of grew up as
a young person really have routine, so developing that now
is a challenge, especially with the travel and those types
of things. But the other side of that is I've
always operated in a bit of chaos.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
So still figuring it out. What I do like to
do is connect with people and connect with place. I
love food too, Like I love getting around and be like,
oh yeah, I got to eat at this place.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
With that I have it, Yeah, quite a simple, simple
thing and just but always look forward to geting home
and some serial and PlayStation that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So let's how you switch off because being a business
owner myself, I can't switch off.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
There's just always something to do.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
There's something I forgot, there's another project, another client, another email,
another staff member, another.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Idea, another business.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm constantly, you know, on, switched on, and i sometimes
find it hard to switch off. And I've got kids
that kind of want me to be present and to
be their mum and not just you know, take calls
at all hours of the night.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So I've learned now twelve.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Years in to put boundaries around my time and my energy.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
But very inspiring.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I know a lot of the people that I work
with that are probably some of the people you work with.
We should do another yard where we're not on camera
but talking about business and how we can even refer
work and clients to each other, because there's a lot
of people that probably need the advice that you followers
(15:44):
could give them because it's not the sector that I
play in, but as a black woman that is very
much committed to creating a much more it's not a
better country.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I just want a healthy planet. I want my.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Children and my grandchildren to have access to clean air
and clean water. And that's at the moment, it seems
like a big ask, So thank you for the work
that you're doing and continue to do when you're only
twenty nine far out.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I'm fair really old at the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
For all of you younger mob, it's you know, the
world's your oyster. Take those opportunities with two hands and
run with it. There's nothing stopping us, and there's more
black businesses popping up left, right and center. So I
can't wait to hear more and to follow your journey.
Thank you for stopping in last minute and jumping on
the Black Magic on podcast.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I really appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah, I a bit of a quiet fan and follower
of yours too, so oh stop.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Nice to see all.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
The things you do and give the follows the platform
to kind of say these things. I'm definitely a victim
of not saying enough, like not not really social media operator,
but thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Here we all have a social media now my brother
for all our listeners. If you want to know more,
especially around the clean energy, this space Renewable Energy, the
First Nations Clean Energy Network. There's a lot of resources
on their website, but will also connect you to this
brother's business. So look, Thank you again, safe travels back
(17:13):
to your country, and for our listeners, I hope you've
enjoyed this Deadly yarn. Until next time, bye for now.
If you'd like any more on today's guest, please visit
our show notes in the episode description.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
A big shout out to all you.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Deadly Mob and allies who continue to listen, watch, and
support our podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
The podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to
our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis
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