September 24, 2024 • 35 mins
This episode is proudly brought to you by ANZ. A new series of conversations with different mob around the country to yarn about, meaningful career opportunities within ANZ, building the capacity of Indigenous businesses and organisations, and helping individuals in the broader community to achieve financial wellbeing and resilience. If you’d like to know more about how ANZ can help improve your financial wellbeing, or help you start, run or grow your business, visit anz.com or call 13 13 14.
Welcome to the next instalment of the ANZ Partnership series! In this inspiring yarn, our host Mundanara Bales sits down with Cameron Bunker, Managing Director of MIB Projects, to explore his remarkable personal and professional journey in business.
We delve into Cameron’s early life in Tasmania, his studies in environmental science, and the eclectic mix of jobs that led him to a fateful motorcycle trip to the Pilbara.
A truly fascinating and inspiring story, particularly for non-Indigenous people in business, looking to engage and do business with First Nations peoples.
Recommendations throughout this episode:
Indigenous small business banking services: https://www.anz.com.au/business/indigenous-banking/
https://mibprojects.com/
Call ANZ’s dedicated Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander customer support line on 1800 037 366 https://www.anz.com.au/support/contact-us/customer-support-line/
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Opportunities https://www.anz.com.au/careers/programs/aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islander-opportunities/
For general enquiries visit anz.com or call 13 13 14
When we reference ANZ in this episode, we are referring to Australia and New Zealand Banking Group operating in Australia and New Zealand.
Given the nature of this podcast, all comments are general in nature and do not take into account the listeners’ financial circumstances, goals or objectives. Please think about what is right for you and seek independent advice.
Website: www.blackmagicwoman.com.au
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The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mundanara Bayles (00:00):
Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the
land we have recorded this episode on. We also acknowledge
traditional owners of the land where you, the listener or
viewer are tuning in from. We would like to pay
our respects to our elders past and present and acknowledge
that this always was Aboriginal land and always will be
(00:20):
Aboriginal land.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This episode is proudly brought to you by ANZ, a
series of conversations with different mob around the country about
employment opportunities, career progression within ANZ, building the capacity of
indigenous businesses and organizations, and helping individuals in the broader
community to achieve financial wellbeing and resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast, with Mundanara Bayles.
Mundanara Bayles (00:57):
Hello you mob, and welcome to another amazing episode of
Black Magic Woman Podcast. I am on the unseated lands
of the beautiful Whadjak Noongar Boodja, which is Perth CBD here. And
it's interesting though, I've been here for a couple of
(01:17):
days and I've learned so much about the Whadjak people,
and it's now just flowing off the tip of my
tongue and I've been here for three days. Can I
just say, Cameron, thank you so much for taking time
out to join me and to be here and to
also share the amazing business that you're the managing director
(01:39):
of at MIB projects? So without further ado, can I
get you to share a little bit about yourself, your
name, your mob, whether you're a Black fella or a white fella. We
all got a mob. We all connect to somewhere to
someplace, but we have our own ways of telling those
stories, so I'm going to hand over to you.
Cameron Bunker (01:59):
I appreciate that and taking the time to have a chat
and thanks for having me on the podcast. It's a
fantastic opportunity to come and have a chat. So I'm
Cameron Bunker, I'm a managing director of MIB Projects. I
grew up in Tasmania. I guess, growing up in Tassie.
(02:21):
Look, it was fantastic. I spent a lot of time
outdoors, very passionate about the outdoors and just climbing trees
and running a mark, I guess, as a young kid.
After I turned 17, I moved over to Melbourne where
I went to university and I did environmental science. I
(02:48):
never really worked as an environmental scientist. It was something
that I was passionate about and I still am. And
hopefully, one day we could circle back and the business might
be able to broach on some kind of environmental sciences work.
Mundanara Bayles (03:03):
It makes sense, doesn't it? Working with Black fellows.
Cameron Bunker (03:06):
Yeah, definitely.
Mundanara Bayles (03:08):
When you think about the first scientist, the first environmentalist,
the first conservationist, so you've got that background.
Cameron Bunker (03:16):
Yeah. I finished uni and I went back to Tassie
and I didn't really know what to do with myself, I didn't
really have any money or anything like that, so I
started doing odd jobs for family and friends and saved
up a few dollars and bought a dirt bike. As
(03:38):
a kid, I always imagined just heading off into the
sunset on a motorbike and traveling around and being free.
So that was my dream, and it took me all
the way up to the Pilbara where I broke down
and ran out of money.
Mundanara Bayles (03:57):
You rode to the Pilbara, basically on a motorbike. On your own?
Cameron Bunker (04:04):
On my own.
Mundanara Bayles (04:04):
Wow, talk about that feeling of freedom.
Cameron Bunker (04:07):
Yeah, definitely.
Mundanara Bayles (04:08):
You broke down in the Pilbara?
Cameron Bunker (04:10):
Yeah, I broke down in the Pilbara. I actually found a
job working as an environmental advisor for Rio Tinto. Just
a strange set of circumstances, and I landed the job.
I stayed in it for about a year, but I
didn't really want to work for the man. That was
(04:30):
kind of my feeling. So I quit and I started
a lawn mowing company and really, that's where it all
started, I guess.
Mundanara Bayles (04:43):
An environmentalist scientist, you get on a motorbike, you leave
Tassie or Melbourne, you leave, you break down in the
Pilbara, you start doing the work with Rio, and then
you become a lawnmower man. You start your own business.
Cameron Bunker (05:02):
That's right.
Mundanara Bayles (05:02):
That's your first business.
Cameron Bunker (05:03):
Yeah, that's it. That's where it all started. And so,
I kept that up for a few months. I ended
up moving back down to Perth and it was sort
of 2010 and there was a huge hailstorm. And so, the
business sort of pivoted as a result of the hailstorm,
(05:26):
there was a huge demand for painting because of all
the damage to all the roofs and everything like that.
And so, I had an ad in the paper that
was advertising for lawn mowing and just no job too
big, no job too small and odd jobs. And I got
(05:48):
into painting and it meant that there was such a
high demand. I was able to put on some staff
and ended up with five workers in just a really
short amount of time. And from painting, we moved into
(06:10):
sign writing, which again, it's another long story, but we-
Mundanara Bayles (06:16):
You met the demand, there was a demand.
Cameron Bunker (06:17):
There was a demand. And at the time, there was a
few things changing in the industry. I wasn't aware of
them, but they just so happened to be, and we got
an opportunity to start making signs. And so, we leased
a little factory in Bayswater in WA Perth, and myself and
(06:42):
Adam, who's my business partner to this day, we were
just working around the clock and supplying signs. I had
a connection still to the Pilbara and to Rio Tinto
and FMG from my time or working there for a
(07:03):
year. And one of the guys that I was working with
back then started to buy bits and pieces from us,
and we landed a contract with FMG. So we were about four
or five years into business at that time, and we
(07:25):
had four or five employees and we were working hard and we
got a phone call from FMG, and they mentioned that
the MIB community were interested in signage and wanted to come
and have a chat. So a couple of the elders
(07:46):
came down from the Pilbara and we had a yarn
and ended up offering a 25% equity of the very
small business at the time.
Mundanara Bayles (07:59):
You had traditional owners, elders invest in your business.
Cameron Bunker (08:05):
That's right.
Mundanara Bayles (08:06):
They bought into your business, essentially you and Adam.
Cameron Bunker (08:08):
Yep, that's it.
Mundanara Bayles (08:10):
This is crazy.
Cameron Bunker (08:10):
Yeah. I guess, looking back at it now, 10, 15 years
ago when it all started to happen, aboriginal business was
not what it is today. I think the MIB community
had only sort of recently set up their enterprise and
(08:34):
they had a couple of other sort of joint venture
arrangements going. Joint ventures can be challenging, I believe they
might be contract by contract or they're sort of fraught
with danger. Anyway, the idea was that to take a
(08:56):
sort of grassroots business and have direct ownership in that,
I think that's where the group was interested in heading
after a couple of joint ventures. It didn't really work
out for them.
Mundanara Bayles (09:09):
And good on you for jumping in and saying, let's
do this.
Cameron Bunker (09:13):
Yeah.
Mundanara Bayles (09:14):
This is an incredible story already. We haven't even got
down to the... This is unbelievable. And I'm pretty sure
people that are listening to the podcast, especially people that
are watching this podcast, how this is unfolding that these
Black fellows bought into the business that you and Adam
set up out of the blue, you're doing painting first,
(09:38):
well, lawn mowing, environmental scientist, and now you're doing sign
writing working with FMG and next minute, you're now MIB
Projects. So you've gone from that 25% ownership to now. What's
it been like? How long has been doing this for?
Cameron Bunker (09:58):
Yeah, so pretty soon after MIB enterprises joined into Corsign, which
was the sign writing company, we launched MIB Traffic. When
you're making signs and installing signs on the side of
the road, you need traffic management. So it sort of
(10:21):
went hand in hand and-
Mundanara Bayles (10:22):
This is great.
Cameron Bunker (10:22):
Yeah, it spun out of that. So at that time,
we actually launched a new business and that was 60%
owned by MIB community.
Mundanara Bayles (10:32):
Okay. So the MIB community has launched this new business, which is the traffic business.
Cameron Bunker (10:42):
Yeah, the traffic business.
Mundanara Bayles (10:43):
Yes. And in terms of traffic management, traffic control, did
you partner with an RTO?
Cameron Bunker (10:48):
No, we didn't.
Mundanara Bayles (10:49):
I'm waiting for you to say no, we became an RTO.
Cameron Bunker (10:50):
No, we've thought about it, but no, it hasn't-
Mundanara Bayles (10:55):
Very expensive, very hard to get that certification and accreditation.
I worked for an RTO for seven years.
Cameron Bunker (11:02):
Oh, okay.
Mundanara Bayles (11:03):
So the traffic management side has been, would you say the
majority of your business?
Cameron Bunker (11:12):
It has been now.
Mundanara Bayles (11:14):
It took off.
Cameron Bunker (11:14):
It took off, yeah. So the first couple of years
were pretty quiet and we were just sort of building
our knowledge base and understanding of the industry, but we
decided to move the company up and become Pilbara centric.
I guess that really talks to the vision of the
company. So understanding that vision, which was some of the
(11:39):
elders being really instrumental in guiding that strategy and that
understanding. So it's funny, I remember a few years after
starting the company, MIB Traffic, and we went to one
of the community meetings and we have to talk about
(12:00):
the business and what opportunities there are, and really, the
main opportunity was for traffic controllers, which makes sense. And
I remember one of the ladies stood up and she said, "
Oh, this is really fantastic that there's opportunities for people
to become traffic controllers, but what about those people who
(12:21):
don't want to be traffic controllers?" And I really didn't
have an answer.
Mundanara Bayles (12:31):
Of course, you were put on the spot there for a bit.
Cameron Bunker (12:31):
Yeah, that was all we had to offer. So I
sort of went away and we looked back at the
vision for the company, which is to be the number
one employer of choice for Pilbara aboriginal workforce. So what
we were doing and what the vision, the company was
they weren't aligned.
Mundanara Bayles (12:50):
Not aligned, there's a bit of a gap there.
Cameron Bunker (12:52):
Yeah, but you've got to start somewhere.
Mundanara Bayles (12:53):
You do. And you've got to know that there is a gap to then
try and address closing it.
Cameron Bunker (12:58):
Exactly. So that's really been my focus for the last
four or five years and the company's taken on a life
of its own now. We're growing in leaps and bounds.
We decided to pivot and start looking at where we
(13:18):
could expand and what kind of works we could do.
And so, hence we've just changed the company name from
MIB Traffic to MIB projects, and we're now up around
200 staff and we're anywhere between 30 and 40% aboriginal employment.
Mundanara Bayles (13:45):
Which is massive when most Australian companies, especially with reconciliation
action plans, they're struggling to hit 1%. They're struggling to
reach their 3% target. They're struggling to get to 1%. You're
a 30 to 40% because that's the vision.
Cameron Bunker (14:06):
That's right. That's the vision, the company's why. It really
is to provide that social value. So now we deal
with BHP, FMG, Rio Tinto, all the big resource companies,
and that's really because they're the companies that are operating
on country.
Mundanara Bayles (14:27):
Of course, that's the only industry and opportunities. So it
makes sense, you're not taking people from community, right?
Cameron Bunker (14:39):
Yeah, that's one of the challenges.
Mundanara Bayles (14:39):
Some people have to leave. They've got to leave community to get into the workforce. So one of your goals or objectives is
trying to provide opportunities on country or close to country,
whereas a lot of the opportunities they've got to leave.
Cameron Bunker (14:55):
That's right. So the company's mission, when we start to
dive into it, it's really to provide that sustainable pathways
for employment. So it's not providing sustainable employment, but it's
providing the pathways. So it's working out how we can
(15:17):
be that conduit between these large international multi- billion dollar businesses-
Mundanara Bayles (15:24):
You don't mind if you lose, you don't mind if you lose some of these mob
that go into those big-
Cameron Bunker (15:28):
No.
Mundanara Bayles (15:28):
So you don't see that as a threat or a...
Cameron Bunker (15:28):
No. It's a challenge, but it's certainly not like we've
got a huge number of success stories of people who
have come in and had the opportunity with MIB Projects.
Mundanara Bayles (15:43):
Yeah, but got probably their first job.
Cameron Bunker (15:46):
Right, exactly.
Mundanara Bayles (15:47):
So you're skilling them up and like you said, their pathways.
I think that's so important for people to understand, that
obviously they're listening to this podcast is that these pathways
that create obviously opportunities the next stepping stone, but we're
just talking about being able to wake up, come to
(16:10):
work on time, understand the workforce, understand the industry, the
sector, the company, all of those things. And a lot
of non- Aboriginal people take for granted. You fellows know
all this, especially if you've been living in cities and
generations of your people have had opportunities and access to
(16:34):
opportunities. You've got some of these people in the Pilbara,
I imagine, where English is their fifth language.
Cameron Bunker (16:41):
That's it.
Mundanara Bayles (16:42):
So these are some of the... They're not barriers, but challenges.
Cameron Bunker (16:46):
Challenges, right.
Mundanara Bayles (16:47):
That organizations like yours, you have to figure that out
so that you're not setting our mob up for failure.
Cameron Bunker (16:54):
That's right.
Mundanara Bayles (16:55):
So I love the fact that you're saying it's not about employment
opportunities, it's a big part of it, but it's about pathways.
Cameron Bunker (17:00):
Yeah, definitely. So when you get into the really nitty-
gritty things, there's some amazing things happening within the business
that I probably couldn't claim to take-
Mundanara Bayles (17:13):
All the credit for.
Cameron Bunker (17:14):
... all the credit for at all. Yeah, there's some fantastic
things happening. We're running a busing service. So traditionally, a
lot of these mine sites like to employ people fly
in, fly out, one size fits all, and you can't
fit the square peg into a round hole kind of
(17:34):
thing. So we focus in on what it is that
we can do to assist and support.
Mundanara Bayles (17:44):
Looking at those gaps again.
Cameron Bunker (17:46):
Yeah. So something as simple as having a drive in,
drive out service and consulting with the big business to
explain why it's so important for us to have that,
putting controls around it so that it's deemed safe and
we get approval. But then, so there's that. There's looking
(18:07):
at all kinds of things. We pay weekly, something that's-
Mundanara Bayles (18:12):
Is that fortnightly or monthly?
Cameron Bunker (18:14):
... fortnightly or monthly, we pay weekly. So that helps us retain stuff.
Mundanara Bayles (18:18):
It might be a bit more admin.
Cameron Bunker (18:21):
Yeah, it's a bit more admin and you've got to monitor cashflow and all those kinds of
things, but it helps to support that ecosystem.
Mundanara Bayles (18:29):
Of course. And those people, they're the reason why you exist.
Cameron Bunker (18:34):
Exactly.
Mundanara Bayles (18:35):
Like you said, you want to become the number one
employee of choice for Aboriginal people in the Pilbara. I
love the vision. So how did you get involved with
ANZ Bank? Have you always banked with ANZ?
Cameron Bunker (18:48):
No.
Mundanara Bayles (18:50):
Well, I didn't either. I was with CommBank and CommBank got my
business from Suncorp Bank.
Cameron Bunker (18:58):
Okay. And now I'm with ANZ Bank. So tell us how you come across ANZ.
That's probably the reason why we're sitting here having this yarn.
Yeah, I'd say so. Look, the ANZ has been incredible.
We were flashing up on their database or something flashing red.
Mundanara Bayles (19:17):
As a flag there in the system?
Cameron Bunker (19:18):
Yep, and when they came in they sort of did a deep dive into the
company and started to really understand and unpack it, and
that's been incredible. So we're flashing red, we're growing so
fast and keeping up and I think traditionally, ANZ might
steer away from businesses that are deemed high risk. But
(19:41):
what we were able to do is again, back to
FMG, through an initiative that they were undertaking was that we were
able to tap into a finance package where FMG were
acting as guarantor on the contract. And that's helped us
(20:03):
set the business on a good platform to be able
to achieve the goals that we're setting out to achieve.
So that's sort of where ANZ came in.
Mundanara Bayles (20:15):
And it's a new initiative or is it just new
for you fellows? It's been around for a while?
Cameron Bunker (20:20):
Yeah, it's been around for a while, we're really understanding
it. I think it's really set up for smaller businesses.
And three years ago, we weren't anywhere near where we
are now. So whether we need that in the future,
hopefully we can stand on our own two feet and
we don't need to go for these corporate guarantees and
(20:41):
things we don't need to go to.
Mundanara Bayles (20:43):
Well, you're giving these opportunities to other Black businesses then
that's it that are going to benefit. So I'm sure they
can't help everyone have the potential to be as big
and successful as your fellows are. So it's kind of
like when you can stand on your own two feet,
you are giving up that spot basically-
Cameron Bunker (21:04):
That's it.
Mundanara Bayles (21:04):
... for another Black business, do you know if it's Western
Australian based or Pilbara based? Because FMG is definitely Pilbara
based, aren't they?
Cameron Bunker (21:13):
Yeah, they are. I'm not a 100% sure, I'd say it might
be Australia wide, bu-
Mundanara Bayles (21:21):
It could be.
Cameron Bunker (21:21):
It's definitely for businesses I think that engage with FMG,
we're hopeful that we might be able to work with
BHP on them setting something similar up. I mean, these
large resource companies, they have a huge demand for aboriginal
business and the commitments that they're making in terms of
(21:44):
their spends with aboriginal business.
Mundanara Bayles (21:47):
How much are we talking about? What are these big spends?
Cameron Bunker (21:50):
Well, look, I don't know exactly the numbers off the
top of my head, but they're big.
Mundanara Bayles (21:55):
Are we talking like a billion dollars? A couple of $100 million?
Cameron Bunker (21:58):
No, I think BHP maybe by 2030 is looking at 1.
5 billion spend with aboriginal business.
Mundanara Bayles (22:06):
Stop it.
Cameron Bunker (22:07):
Yeah, so it's huge.
Mundanara Bayles (22:07):
This is really exciting for Black fellows in business. It's been
the lack of the draw, if you want to say
that. We've been locked out of the economy. We haven't
had an opportunity to participate in society right up until
(22:29):
we became citizens. So this is really exciting for us,
for our mob to hear these stories in particular. And
for non- aboriginal business owners to look at this example
as a business or a case study and to be
inspired and we can work together to achieve mutual outcomes
(22:53):
or benefits. So what's been one of the biggest challenges,
if you could name one of the biggest challenges...
Cameron Bunker (23:07):
Gosh, there's been a lot.
Mundanara Bayles (23:09):
I'm sure there has. White fellows being kind of assimilated
into Black fella world and being able to operate on
aboriginal terms. You want to do business with Black fellows for
far too long we as Aboriginal people have been forced
to participate in white or mainstream society. So it's the
(23:30):
other way around now. You're not being forced, you put
your hand up, you took the voluntary, it was a
voluntary for you to do this. In terms of being
able to work with these elders, our old people, maybe
what's one of the biggest learnings and instead of challenges,
(23:51):
let's turn it, what's been one of the biggest learnings?
Cameron Bunker (23:53):
Yeah, sure. So I think it's, for me, personally the understanding and
the cultural awareness training, that kind of stuff. For so
long we've been focused head down, bum up, and not
(24:15):
even coming up for air kind of thing. So for
me, that's where I want to focus on is that
cultural awareness and trying to bridge that gap where recognizing
that we're working in aboriginal community and business, being able
(24:41):
to communicate effectively with the elders and things like that is-
Mundanara Bayles (24:47):
Without offending or disrespecting. And there's a lot of people like you, Cameron and Adam, your business partner, that
have good intentions and really want to be part of
positive change on a personal level, on a societal level,
(25:07):
but for this country to start to see the value
and embrace us as Aboriginal people. In fact embrace the
rich history and heritage of this country that dates back
at least 140, 000 years.
Cameron Bunker (25:28):
It's incredible, right?
Mundanara Bayles (25:29):
It's incredible. What does your family say about your path,
your journey, where you've ended up, and I know you're
still young, you've still got other things that you're probably
going to achieve in your life, but what has it
been like in terms of your family to see you
run and be in business with aboriginal people?
Cameron Bunker (25:51):
So look, I've got two elder sisters and my parents
and they're all back in Tasmania. Each time I talk
to them, something else is happening and so exciting and
they've got my full support. They've been incredible.
Mundanara Bayles (26:12):
Are you finding yourself educating them?
Cameron Bunker (26:15):
Yeah, definitely. Every opportunity I get to go home and
we sit around the dinner table and we have these
discussions and I think especially in Tasmania, the history has
been swept under the carpet. For me, growing up in
(26:42):
any of the textbooks and everything like that through school,
there was no education of anything prior to European settlement.
Mundanara Bayles (26:51):
Or supposedly Truganini being the last Aboriginal full blood who
died and there's no Aboriginal people left. That was what
most Tasmanian people were taught. But Black fellows would say, "
Well, hold a minute..."
Cameron Bunker (27:04):
That's it.
Mundanara Bayles (27:04):
" We all didn't wait for them to turn up
and shoot us." We got out of there the ones
that could escape of Flinders Island. There's a lot of
Aboriginal people from Tasmania that have been living in Narrm in
Melbourne for eight generations. It's incredible hearing these stories and
(27:25):
it's so important that we get these opportunities to learn
from each other. Black fellow, white fella, indigenous known indigenous,
we've got so much to offer, especially white Australia. For
us as Black fellows, we've got so much to offer
and it's just still kind of saddens me that we're
still where we are as a nation, but as individuals
(27:51):
there's so much goodwill, there's so much that's happening that
we don't get to hear about. So I'm so thankful
and I feel really appreciative that I've been able to
partner with ANZ Bank to bring this series to mainstream Australia
and also to the rest of the world. I roll
(28:12):
out all of ANZ Bank's cultural capability training and I've
been rolling that out to the bank for about four
or five years and that in itself, their investment in
my company and I'm in business with my elders. To
me, obviously I feel quite... I don't feel appreciative because
(28:37):
we work hard. Nothing's given to us. It's not a
grant or whatever. You don't apply for it. You've got
to be able to justify your business case or what
your value proposition is. There's other Black fellows that do
what we do, but do it a little bit differently.
So it's not easy in particular in my circumstances, to
(29:01):
be an aboriginal woman in business, to not have government
support because we don't need it. But a lot of non-
Aboriginal people think if you're a successful Black business, then
obviously you've got government supporter or handouts. And so, there's
a whole lot of education and there's a whole lot
of unfortunate, there's a whole lot of misinformation. So you are in a
(29:23):
unique position or you can bridge that gap within your
own family and start to get them to see Aboriginal
people through a different lens. What about your own? You've got children?
Cameron Bunker (29:37):
I do.
Mundanara Bayles (29:37):
You do?
Cameron Bunker (29:37):
Yeah. Look, I spoke about my family. I didn't mention my wife, Chelsea.
Mundanara Bayles (29:48):
There you go.
Cameron Bunker (29:48):
So yeah, she's an incredible woman. She's just started back at
school actually today along with the two kids. I've got
Elise and Jo, they're year one and year three. And
so, look, they're incredible. They keep me going.
Mundanara Bayles (30:06):
They put up with you.
Cameron Bunker (30:06):
Yeah, they put up with me.
Mundanara Bayles (30:12):
Everything that you're doing, you got to have a deadly woman, holding it
down, looking after kids and trying to keep you going as well.
Cameron Bunker (30:23):
Yeah, definitely.
Mundanara Bayles (30:24):
We can't forget these amazing women in our lives.
Cameron Bunker (30:27):
She's incredible. So she's West Australian, born and bred and
just a fantastic support for letting me do what I
do. So yeah, I'm really thankful for that.
Mundanara Bayles (30:45):
I'm glad we mentioned it because we're about to wrap
up this yarn and my kids always say to me, "
You didn't even say hello to me, mom." So I think it's
so important that we don't forget those little people in
our lives because they're watching us and they're listening and
they're taking a lot of it in. I'm excited especially
(31:09):
for your children, because I can only imagine that you're
going to be passing down all this knowledge and experience
for them to pick up from where you leave off.
They're going to be running this business too one day
and that's what excites me with my kids about being
(31:30):
in business and being entrepreneurs. So what else are you
going to do? Before we wrap up, what's next? Is
there anything?
Cameron Bunker (31:39):
What's next?
Mundanara Bayles (31:39):
Or you just focus on what you're doing and keep doing
that well?
Cameron Bunker (31:43):
Yeah, I think so. We're not looking to consolidate or
anything like that. We're definitely looking to continue to expand.
Ideally, I would love to circle back onto some environmental
work, and I know that the community, just because there's
mining on country, it doesn't mean that we need to
(32:03):
be always be working just on mining.
Mundanara Bayles (32:06):
Because mining's not going to be forever.
Cameron Bunker (32:07):
No, it's not.
Mundanara Bayles (32:08):
It's limited, there's a timeframe with industries like that.
Cameron Bunker (32:12):
Yeah, the destruction of the country as well. It's a
very hot topic and we could talk forever about it.
But ideally, if we could circle back and maybe get
into some rehab work or there's... I don't know, renewables.
(32:37):
Look, there's mine site rehabilitation is a huge space. And
again, as an aboriginal business and community owned business, I
think definitely, there's a requirement for us to be looking at
working in that space.
Mundanara Bayles (32:54):
Well they got the right person with your background.
Cameron Bunker (32:57):
I hope so.
Mundanara Bayles (32:57):
Don't let it go to waste. Look, I am really
excited. I haven't had a yarn with anyone on this
podcast over the last three years. I'm talking about 130
episodes. So this yarn is different, it's unique. So I'm
really thankful that you got the call- up to be able to-
Cameron Bunker (33:20):
Thank you.
Mundanara Bayles (33:20):
... represent this business. But thank you as well for
doing what you're doing. Like I said, it's stories like
these that need to be told of how we can
work together and just imagine what kind of country our
children and our children's children are going to grow up
(33:42):
in because we've taken the first step.
Cameron Bunker (33:45):
That's it. It's a generational thing and that's why the
kids are so important, right? But it is a generational
thing and there's no quick fixes, there's no stop gaps
and plugging holes, none of that. It's getting down dirty,
getting in the trenches and just having a crack.
Mundanara Bayles (34:06):
Good on you for literally throwing yourself in there, you
and your business partner. Big shout out to you, Adam.
Next time, we might get you on and have a
yarn. But yeah, thank you for making time to be
here and to just share your story, your life, what
(34:26):
an amazing so far from all the things that you've
done to get to where you are. And I'm pretty
sure there's more to come.
Cameron Bunker (34:35):
Definitely.
Mundanara Bayles (34:37):
But thank you for coming.
Cameron Bunker (34:38):
Thanks very much-
Mundanara Bayles (34:39):
No worries.
Cameron Bunker (34:39):
... for having me.
Mundanara Bayles (34:40):
Well, look, I am pretty sure that for people out
there that are wondering about business opportunities, ring up ANZ
Bank. There are actually Black fellows working in the business
that are business bankers. First Nations peoples that will be
more than happy to have a yarn on the phone
(35:02):
or jump on a teams meeting to see how they
can best support your business ventures. So thank you so
much for tuning in. Until next time, bye for now.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
If you'd like to know more about ANZ and how they
can improve your financial wellbeing, visit anz. com or call
13 13 14.
Mundanara Bayles (35:25):
A big shout- out to all you deadly mob and allies
who continue to listen, watch and support our podcast. Your
feedback means the world. You can rate and review the
podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to our
socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line. We'd
love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman Podcast
is produced by Clint Curtis.
Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the
land we have recorded this episode on. We also acknowledge
traditional owners of the land where you, the listener or
viewer are tuning in from. We would like to pay
our respects to our elders past and present and acknowledge
that this always was Aboriginal land and always will be
(00:20):
Aboriginal land.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This episode is proudly brought to you by ANZ, a
series of conversations with different mob around the country about
employment opportunities, career progression within ANZ, building the capacity of
indigenous businesses and organizations, and helping individuals in the broader
community to achieve financial wellbeing and resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast, with Mundanara Bayles.
Mundanara Bayles (00:57):
Hello you mob, and welcome to another amazing episode of
Black Magic Woman Podcast. I am on the unseated lands
of the beautiful Whadjak Noongar Boodja, which is Perth CBD here. And
it's interesting though, I've been here for a couple of
(01:17):
days and I've learned so much about the Whadjak people,
and it's now just flowing off the tip of my
tongue and I've been here for three days. Can I
just say, Cameron, thank you so much for taking time
out to join me and to be here and to
also share the amazing business that you're the managing director
(01:39):
of at MIB projects? So without further ado, can I
get you to share a little bit about yourself, your
name, your mob, whether you're a Black fella or a white fella. We
all got a mob. We all connect to somewhere to
someplace, but we have our own ways of telling those
stories, so I'm going to hand over to you.
Cameron Bunker (01:59):
I appreciate that and taking the time to have a chat
and thanks for having me on the podcast. It's a
fantastic opportunity to come and have a chat. So I'm
Cameron Bunker, I'm a managing director of MIB Projects. I
grew up in Tasmania. I guess, growing up in Tassie.
(02:21):
Look, it was fantastic. I spent a lot of time
outdoors, very passionate about the outdoors and just climbing trees
and running a mark, I guess, as a young kid.
After I turned 17, I moved over to Melbourne where
I went to university and I did environmental science. I
(02:48):
never really worked as an environmental scientist. It was something
that I was passionate about and I still am. And
hopefully, one day we could circle back and the business might
be able to broach on some kind of environmental sciences work.
Mundanara Bayles (03:03):
It makes sense, doesn't it? Working with Black fellows.
Cameron Bunker (03:06):
Yeah, definitely.
Mundanara Bayles (03:08):
When you think about the first scientist, the first environmentalist,
the first conservationist, so you've got that background.
Cameron Bunker (03:16):
Yeah. I finished uni and I went back to Tassie
and I didn't really know what to do with myself, I didn't
really have any money or anything like that, so I
started doing odd jobs for family and friends and saved
up a few dollars and bought a dirt bike. As
(03:38):
a kid, I always imagined just heading off into the
sunset on a motorbike and traveling around and being free.
So that was my dream, and it took me all
the way up to the Pilbara where I broke down
and ran out of money.
Mundanara Bayles (03:57):
You rode to the Pilbara, basically on a motorbike. On your own?
Cameron Bunker (04:04):
On my own.
Mundanara Bayles (04:04):
Wow, talk about that feeling of freedom.
Cameron Bunker (04:07):
Yeah, definitely.
Mundanara Bayles (04:08):
You broke down in the Pilbara?
Cameron Bunker (04:10):
Yeah, I broke down in the Pilbara. I actually found a
job working as an environmental advisor for Rio Tinto. Just
a strange set of circumstances, and I landed the job.
I stayed in it for about a year, but I
didn't really want to work for the man. That was
(04:30):
kind of my feeling. So I quit and I started
a lawn mowing company and really, that's where it all
started, I guess.
Mundanara Bayles (04:43):
An environmentalist scientist, you get on a motorbike, you leave
Tassie or Melbourne, you leave, you break down in the
Pilbara, you start doing the work with Rio, and then
you become a lawnmower man. You start your own business.
Cameron Bunker (05:02):
That's right.
Mundanara Bayles (05:02):
That's your first business.
Cameron Bunker (05:03):
Yeah, that's it. That's where it all started. And so,
I kept that up for a few months. I ended
up moving back down to Perth and it was sort
of 2010 and there was a huge hailstorm. And so, the
business sort of pivoted as a result of the hailstorm,
(05:26):
there was a huge demand for painting because of all
the damage to all the roofs and everything like that.
And so, I had an ad in the paper that
was advertising for lawn mowing and just no job too
big, no job too small and odd jobs. And I got
(05:48):
into painting and it meant that there was such a
high demand. I was able to put on some staff
and ended up with five workers in just a really
short amount of time. And from painting, we moved into
(06:10):
sign writing, which again, it's another long story, but we-
Mundanara Bayles (06:16):
You met the demand, there was a demand.
Cameron Bunker (06:17):
There was a demand. And at the time, there was a
few things changing in the industry. I wasn't aware of
them, but they just so happened to be, and we got
an opportunity to start making signs. And so, we leased
a little factory in Bayswater in WA Perth, and myself and
(06:42):
Adam, who's my business partner to this day, we were
just working around the clock and supplying signs. I had
a connection still to the Pilbara and to Rio Tinto
and FMG from my time or working there for a
(07:03):
year. And one of the guys that I was working with
back then started to buy bits and pieces from us,
and we landed a contract with FMG. So we were about four
or five years into business at that time, and we
(07:25):
had four or five employees and we were working hard and we
got a phone call from FMG, and they mentioned that
the MIB community were interested in signage and wanted to come
and have a chat. So a couple of the elders
(07:46):
came down from the Pilbara and we had a yarn
and ended up offering a 25% equity of the very
small business at the time.
Mundanara Bayles (07:59):
You had traditional owners, elders invest in your business.
Cameron Bunker (08:05):
That's right.
Mundanara Bayles (08:06):
They bought into your business, essentially you and Adam.
Cameron Bunker (08:08):
Yep, that's it.
Mundanara Bayles (08:10):
This is crazy.
Cameron Bunker (08:10):
Yeah. I guess, looking back at it now, 10, 15 years
ago when it all started to happen, aboriginal business was
not what it is today. I think the MIB community
had only sort of recently set up their enterprise and
(08:34):
they had a couple of other sort of joint venture
arrangements going. Joint ventures can be challenging, I believe they
might be contract by contract or they're sort of fraught
with danger. Anyway, the idea was that to take a
(08:56):
sort of grassroots business and have direct ownership in that,
I think that's where the group was interested in heading
after a couple of joint ventures. It didn't really work
out for them.
Mundanara Bayles (09:09):
And good on you for jumping in and saying, let's
do this.
Cameron Bunker (09:13):
Yeah.
Mundanara Bayles (09:14):
This is an incredible story already. We haven't even got
down to the... This is unbelievable. And I'm pretty sure
people that are listening to the podcast, especially people that
are watching this podcast, how this is unfolding that these
Black fellows bought into the business that you and Adam
set up out of the blue, you're doing painting first,
(09:38):
well, lawn mowing, environmental scientist, and now you're doing sign
writing working with FMG and next minute, you're now MIB
Projects. So you've gone from that 25% ownership to now. What's
it been like? How long has been doing this for?
Cameron Bunker (09:58):
Yeah, so pretty soon after MIB enterprises joined into Corsign, which
was the sign writing company, we launched MIB Traffic. When
you're making signs and installing signs on the side of
the road, you need traffic management. So it sort of
(10:21):
went hand in hand and-
Mundanara Bayles (10:22):
This is great.
Cameron Bunker (10:22):
Yeah, it spun out of that. So at that time,
we actually launched a new business and that was 60%
owned by MIB community.
Mundanara Bayles (10:32):
Okay. So the MIB community has launched this new business, which is the traffic business.
Cameron Bunker (10:42):
Yeah, the traffic business.
Mundanara Bayles (10:43):
Yes. And in terms of traffic management, traffic control, did
you partner with an RTO?
Cameron Bunker (10:48):
No, we didn't.
Mundanara Bayles (10:49):
I'm waiting for you to say no, we became an RTO.
Cameron Bunker (10:50):
No, we've thought about it, but no, it hasn't-
Mundanara Bayles (10:55):
Very expensive, very hard to get that certification and accreditation.
I worked for an RTO for seven years.
Cameron Bunker (11:02):
Oh, okay.
Mundanara Bayles (11:03):
So the traffic management side has been, would you say the
majority of your business?
Cameron Bunker (11:12):
It has been now.
Mundanara Bayles (11:14):
It took off.
Cameron Bunker (11:14):
It took off, yeah. So the first couple of years
were pretty quiet and we were just sort of building
our knowledge base and understanding of the industry, but we
decided to move the company up and become Pilbara centric.
I guess that really talks to the vision of the
company. So understanding that vision, which was some of the
(11:39):
elders being really instrumental in guiding that strategy and that
understanding. So it's funny, I remember a few years after
starting the company, MIB Traffic, and we went to one
of the community meetings and we have to talk about
(12:00):
the business and what opportunities there are, and really, the
main opportunity was for traffic controllers, which makes sense. And
I remember one of the ladies stood up and she said, "
Oh, this is really fantastic that there's opportunities for people
to become traffic controllers, but what about those people who
(12:21):
don't want to be traffic controllers?" And I really didn't
have an answer.
Mundanara Bayles (12:31):
Of course, you were put on the spot there for a bit.
Cameron Bunker (12:31):
Yeah, that was all we had to offer. So I
sort of went away and we looked back at the
vision for the company, which is to be the number
one employer of choice for Pilbara aboriginal workforce. So what
we were doing and what the vision, the company was
they weren't aligned.
Mundanara Bayles (12:50):
Not aligned, there's a bit of a gap there.
Cameron Bunker (12:52):
Yeah, but you've got to start somewhere.
Mundanara Bayles (12:53):
You do. And you've got to know that there is a gap to then
try and address closing it.
Cameron Bunker (12:58):
Exactly. So that's really been my focus for the last
four or five years and the company's taken on a life
of its own now. We're growing in leaps and bounds.
We decided to pivot and start looking at where we
(13:18):
could expand and what kind of works we could do.
And so, hence we've just changed the company name from
MIB Traffic to MIB projects, and we're now up around
200 staff and we're anywhere between 30 and 40% aboriginal employment.
Mundanara Bayles (13:45):
Which is massive when most Australian companies, especially with reconciliation
action plans, they're struggling to hit 1%. They're struggling to
reach their 3% target. They're struggling to get to 1%. You're
a 30 to 40% because that's the vision.
Cameron Bunker (14:06):
That's right. That's the vision, the company's why. It really
is to provide that social value. So now we deal
with BHP, FMG, Rio Tinto, all the big resource companies,
and that's really because they're the companies that are operating
on country.
Mundanara Bayles (14:27):
Of course, that's the only industry and opportunities. So it
makes sense, you're not taking people from community, right?
Cameron Bunker (14:39):
Yeah, that's one of the challenges.
Mundanara Bayles (14:39):
Some people have to leave. They've got to leave community to get into the workforce. So one of your goals or objectives is
trying to provide opportunities on country or close to country,
whereas a lot of the opportunities they've got to leave.
Cameron Bunker (14:55):
That's right. So the company's mission, when we start to
dive into it, it's really to provide that sustainable pathways
for employment. So it's not providing sustainable employment, but it's
providing the pathways. So it's working out how we can
(15:17):
be that conduit between these large international multi- billion dollar businesses-
Mundanara Bayles (15:24):
You don't mind if you lose, you don't mind if you lose some of these mob
that go into those big-
Cameron Bunker (15:28):
No.
Mundanara Bayles (15:28):
So you don't see that as a threat or a...
Cameron Bunker (15:28):
No. It's a challenge, but it's certainly not like we've
got a huge number of success stories of people who
have come in and had the opportunity with MIB Projects.
Mundanara Bayles (15:43):
Yeah, but got probably their first job.
Cameron Bunker (15:46):
Right, exactly.
Mundanara Bayles (15:47):
So you're skilling them up and like you said, their pathways.
I think that's so important for people to understand, that
obviously they're listening to this podcast is that these pathways
that create obviously opportunities the next stepping stone, but we're
just talking about being able to wake up, come to
(16:10):
work on time, understand the workforce, understand the industry, the
sector, the company, all of those things. And a lot
of non- Aboriginal people take for granted. You fellows know
all this, especially if you've been living in cities and
generations of your people have had opportunities and access to
(16:34):
opportunities. You've got some of these people in the Pilbara,
I imagine, where English is their fifth language.
Cameron Bunker (16:41):
That's it.
Mundanara Bayles (16:42):
So these are some of the... They're not barriers, but challenges.
Cameron Bunker (16:46):
Challenges, right.
Mundanara Bayles (16:47):
That organizations like yours, you have to figure that out
so that you're not setting our mob up for failure.
Cameron Bunker (16:54):
That's right.
Mundanara Bayles (16:55):
So I love the fact that you're saying it's not about employment
opportunities, it's a big part of it, but it's about pathways.
Cameron Bunker (17:00):
Yeah, definitely. So when you get into the really nitty-
gritty things, there's some amazing things happening within the business
that I probably couldn't claim to take-
Mundanara Bayles (17:13):
All the credit for.
Cameron Bunker (17:14):
... all the credit for at all. Yeah, there's some fantastic
things happening. We're running a busing service. So traditionally, a
lot of these mine sites like to employ people fly
in, fly out, one size fits all, and you can't
fit the square peg into a round hole kind of
(17:34):
thing. So we focus in on what it is that
we can do to assist and support.
Mundanara Bayles (17:44):
Looking at those gaps again.
Cameron Bunker (17:46):
Yeah. So something as simple as having a drive in,
drive out service and consulting with the big business to
explain why it's so important for us to have that,
putting controls around it so that it's deemed safe and
we get approval. But then, so there's that. There's looking
(18:07):
at all kinds of things. We pay weekly, something that's-
Mundanara Bayles (18:12):
Is that fortnightly or monthly?
Cameron Bunker (18:14):
... fortnightly or monthly, we pay weekly. So that helps us retain stuff.
Mundanara Bayles (18:18):
It might be a bit more admin.
Cameron Bunker (18:21):
Yeah, it's a bit more admin and you've got to monitor cashflow and all those kinds of
things, but it helps to support that ecosystem.
Mundanara Bayles (18:29):
Of course. And those people, they're the reason why you exist.
Cameron Bunker (18:34):
Exactly.
Mundanara Bayles (18:35):
Like you said, you want to become the number one
employee of choice for Aboriginal people in the Pilbara. I
love the vision. So how did you get involved with
ANZ Bank? Have you always banked with ANZ?
Cameron Bunker (18:48):
No.
Mundanara Bayles (18:50):
Well, I didn't either. I was with CommBank and CommBank got my
business from Suncorp Bank.
Cameron Bunker (18:58):
Okay. And now I'm with ANZ Bank. So tell us how you come across ANZ.
That's probably the reason why we're sitting here having this yarn.
Yeah, I'd say so. Look, the ANZ has been incredible.
We were flashing up on their database or something flashing red.
Mundanara Bayles (19:17):
As a flag there in the system?
Cameron Bunker (19:18):
Yep, and when they came in they sort of did a deep dive into the
company and started to really understand and unpack it, and
that's been incredible. So we're flashing red, we're growing so
fast and keeping up and I think traditionally, ANZ might
steer away from businesses that are deemed high risk. But
(19:41):
what we were able to do is again, back to
FMG, through an initiative that they were undertaking was that we were
able to tap into a finance package where FMG were
acting as guarantor on the contract. And that's helped us
(20:03):
set the business on a good platform to be able
to achieve the goals that we're setting out to achieve.
So that's sort of where ANZ came in.
Mundanara Bayles (20:15):
And it's a new initiative or is it just new
for you fellows? It's been around for a while?
Cameron Bunker (20:20):
Yeah, it's been around for a while, we're really understanding
it. I think it's really set up for smaller businesses.
And three years ago, we weren't anywhere near where we
are now. So whether we need that in the future,
hopefully we can stand on our own two feet and
we don't need to go for these corporate guarantees and
(20:41):
things we don't need to go to.
Mundanara Bayles (20:43):
Well, you're giving these opportunities to other Black businesses then
that's it that are going to benefit. So I'm sure they
can't help everyone have the potential to be as big
and successful as your fellows are. So it's kind of
like when you can stand on your own two feet,
you are giving up that spot basically-
Cameron Bunker (21:04):
That's it.
Mundanara Bayles (21:04):
... for another Black business, do you know if it's Western
Australian based or Pilbara based? Because FMG is definitely Pilbara
based, aren't they?
Cameron Bunker (21:13):
Yeah, they are. I'm not a 100% sure, I'd say it might
be Australia wide, bu-
Mundanara Bayles (21:21):
It could be.
Cameron Bunker (21:21):
It's definitely for businesses I think that engage with FMG,
we're hopeful that we might be able to work with
BHP on them setting something similar up. I mean, these
large resource companies, they have a huge demand for aboriginal
business and the commitments that they're making in terms of
(21:44):
their spends with aboriginal business.
Mundanara Bayles (21:47):
How much are we talking about? What are these big spends?
Cameron Bunker (21:50):
Well, look, I don't know exactly the numbers off the
top of my head, but they're big.
Mundanara Bayles (21:55):
Are we talking like a billion dollars? A couple of $100 million?
Cameron Bunker (21:58):
No, I think BHP maybe by 2030 is looking at 1.
5 billion spend with aboriginal business.
Mundanara Bayles (22:06):
Stop it.
Cameron Bunker (22:07):
Yeah, so it's huge.
Mundanara Bayles (22:07):
This is really exciting for Black fellows in business. It's been
the lack of the draw, if you want to say
that. We've been locked out of the economy. We haven't
had an opportunity to participate in society right up until
(22:29):
we became citizens. So this is really exciting for us,
for our mob to hear these stories in particular. And
for non- aboriginal business owners to look at this example
as a business or a case study and to be
inspired and we can work together to achieve mutual outcomes
(22:53):
or benefits. So what's been one of the biggest challenges,
if you could name one of the biggest challenges...
Cameron Bunker (23:07):
Gosh, there's been a lot.
Mundanara Bayles (23:09):
I'm sure there has. White fellows being kind of assimilated
into Black fella world and being able to operate on
aboriginal terms. You want to do business with Black fellows for
far too long we as Aboriginal people have been forced
to participate in white or mainstream society. So it's the
(23:30):
other way around now. You're not being forced, you put
your hand up, you took the voluntary, it was a
voluntary for you to do this. In terms of being
able to work with these elders, our old people, maybe
what's one of the biggest learnings and instead of challenges,
(23:51):
let's turn it, what's been one of the biggest learnings?
Cameron Bunker (23:53):
Yeah, sure. So I think it's, for me, personally the understanding and
the cultural awareness training, that kind of stuff. For so
long we've been focused head down, bum up, and not
(24:15):
even coming up for air kind of thing. So for
me, that's where I want to focus on is that
cultural awareness and trying to bridge that gap where recognizing
that we're working in aboriginal community and business, being able
(24:41):
to communicate effectively with the elders and things like that is-
Mundanara Bayles (24:47):
Without offending or disrespecting. And there's a lot of people like you, Cameron and Adam, your business partner, that
have good intentions and really want to be part of
positive change on a personal level, on a societal level,
(25:07):
but for this country to start to see the value
and embrace us as Aboriginal people. In fact embrace the
rich history and heritage of this country that dates back
at least 140, 000 years.
Cameron Bunker (25:28):
It's incredible, right?
Mundanara Bayles (25:29):
It's incredible. What does your family say about your path,
your journey, where you've ended up, and I know you're
still young, you've still got other things that you're probably
going to achieve in your life, but what has it
been like in terms of your family to see you
run and be in business with aboriginal people?
Cameron Bunker (25:51):
So look, I've got two elder sisters and my parents
and they're all back in Tasmania. Each time I talk
to them, something else is happening and so exciting and
they've got my full support. They've been incredible.
Mundanara Bayles (26:12):
Are you finding yourself educating them?
Cameron Bunker (26:15):
Yeah, definitely. Every opportunity I get to go home and
we sit around the dinner table and we have these
discussions and I think especially in Tasmania, the history has
been swept under the carpet. For me, growing up in
(26:42):
any of the textbooks and everything like that through school,
there was no education of anything prior to European settlement.
Mundanara Bayles (26:51):
Or supposedly Truganini being the last Aboriginal full blood who
died and there's no Aboriginal people left. That was what
most Tasmanian people were taught. But Black fellows would say, "
Well, hold a minute..."
Cameron Bunker (27:04):
That's it.
Mundanara Bayles (27:04):
" We all didn't wait for them to turn up
and shoot us." We got out of there the ones
that could escape of Flinders Island. There's a lot of
Aboriginal people from Tasmania that have been living in Narrm in
Melbourne for eight generations. It's incredible hearing these stories and
(27:25):
it's so important that we get these opportunities to learn
from each other. Black fellow, white fella, indigenous known indigenous,
we've got so much to offer, especially white Australia. For
us as Black fellows, we've got so much to offer
and it's just still kind of saddens me that we're
still where we are as a nation, but as individuals
(27:51):
there's so much goodwill, there's so much that's happening that
we don't get to hear about. So I'm so thankful
and I feel really appreciative that I've been able to
partner with ANZ Bank to bring this series to mainstream Australia
and also to the rest of the world. I roll
(28:12):
out all of ANZ Bank's cultural capability training and I've
been rolling that out to the bank for about four
or five years and that in itself, their investment in
my company and I'm in business with my elders. To
me, obviously I feel quite... I don't feel appreciative because
(28:37):
we work hard. Nothing's given to us. It's not a
grant or whatever. You don't apply for it. You've got
to be able to justify your business case or what
your value proposition is. There's other Black fellows that do
what we do, but do it a little bit differently.
So it's not easy in particular in my circumstances, to
(29:01):
be an aboriginal woman in business, to not have government
support because we don't need it. But a lot of non-
Aboriginal people think if you're a successful Black business, then
obviously you've got government supporter or handouts. And so, there's
a whole lot of education and there's a whole lot
of unfortunate, there's a whole lot of misinformation. So you are in a
(29:23):
unique position or you can bridge that gap within your
own family and start to get them to see Aboriginal
people through a different lens. What about your own? You've got children?
Cameron Bunker (29:37):
I do.
Mundanara Bayles (29:37):
You do?
Cameron Bunker (29:37):
Yeah. Look, I spoke about my family. I didn't mention my wife, Chelsea.
Mundanara Bayles (29:48):
There you go.
Cameron Bunker (29:48):
So yeah, she's an incredible woman. She's just started back at
school actually today along with the two kids. I've got
Elise and Jo, they're year one and year three. And
so, look, they're incredible. They keep me going.
Mundanara Bayles (30:06):
They put up with you.
Cameron Bunker (30:06):
Yeah, they put up with me.
Mundanara Bayles (30:12):
Everything that you're doing, you got to have a deadly woman, holding it
down, looking after kids and trying to keep you going as well.
Cameron Bunker (30:23):
Yeah, definitely.
Mundanara Bayles (30:24):
We can't forget these amazing women in our lives.
Cameron Bunker (30:27):
She's incredible. So she's West Australian, born and bred and
just a fantastic support for letting me do what I
do. So yeah, I'm really thankful for that.
Mundanara Bayles (30:45):
I'm glad we mentioned it because we're about to wrap
up this yarn and my kids always say to me, "
You didn't even say hello to me, mom." So I think it's
so important that we don't forget those little people in
our lives because they're watching us and they're listening and
they're taking a lot of it in. I'm excited especially
(31:09):
for your children, because I can only imagine that you're
going to be passing down all this knowledge and experience
for them to pick up from where you leave off.
They're going to be running this business too one day
and that's what excites me with my kids about being
(31:30):
in business and being entrepreneurs. So what else are you
going to do? Before we wrap up, what's next? Is
there anything?
Cameron Bunker (31:39):
What's next?
Mundanara Bayles (31:39):
Or you just focus on what you're doing and keep doing
that well?
Cameron Bunker (31:43):
Yeah, I think so. We're not looking to consolidate or
anything like that. We're definitely looking to continue to expand.
Ideally, I would love to circle back onto some environmental
work, and I know that the community, just because there's
mining on country, it doesn't mean that we need to
(32:03):
be always be working just on mining.
Mundanara Bayles (32:06):
Because mining's not going to be forever.
Cameron Bunker (32:07):
No, it's not.
Mundanara Bayles (32:08):
It's limited, there's a timeframe with industries like that.
Cameron Bunker (32:12):
Yeah, the destruction of the country as well. It's a
very hot topic and we could talk forever about it.
But ideally, if we could circle back and maybe get
into some rehab work or there's... I don't know, renewables.
(32:37):
Look, there's mine site rehabilitation is a huge space. And
again, as an aboriginal business and community owned business, I
think definitely, there's a requirement for us to be looking at
working in that space.
Mundanara Bayles (32:54):
Well they got the right person with your background.
Cameron Bunker (32:57):
I hope so.
Mundanara Bayles (32:57):
Don't let it go to waste. Look, I am really
excited. I haven't had a yarn with anyone on this
podcast over the last three years. I'm talking about 130
episodes. So this yarn is different, it's unique. So I'm
really thankful that you got the call- up to be able to-
Cameron Bunker (33:20):
Thank you.
Mundanara Bayles (33:20):
... represent this business. But thank you as well for
doing what you're doing. Like I said, it's stories like
these that need to be told of how we can
work together and just imagine what kind of country our
children and our children's children are going to grow up
(33:42):
in because we've taken the first step.
Cameron Bunker (33:45):
That's it. It's a generational thing and that's why the
kids are so important, right? But it is a generational
thing and there's no quick fixes, there's no stop gaps
and plugging holes, none of that. It's getting down dirty,
getting in the trenches and just having a crack.
Mundanara Bayles (34:06):
Good on you for literally throwing yourself in there, you
and your business partner. Big shout out to you, Adam.
Next time, we might get you on and have a
yarn. But yeah, thank you for making time to be
here and to just share your story, your life, what
(34:26):
an amazing so far from all the things that you've
done to get to where you are. And I'm pretty
sure there's more to come.
Cameron Bunker (34:35):
Definitely.
Mundanara Bayles (34:37):
But thank you for coming.
Cameron Bunker (34:38):
Thanks very much-
Mundanara Bayles (34:39):
No worries.
Cameron Bunker (34:39):
... for having me.
Mundanara Bayles (34:40):
Well, look, I am pretty sure that for people out
there that are wondering about business opportunities, ring up ANZ
Bank. There are actually Black fellows working in the business
that are business bankers. First Nations peoples that will be
more than happy to have a yarn on the phone
(35:02):
or jump on a teams meeting to see how they
can best support your business ventures. So thank you so
much for tuning in. Until next time, bye for now.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
If you'd like to know more about ANZ and how they
can improve your financial wellbeing, visit anz. com or call
13 13 14.
Mundanara Bayles (35:25):
A big shout- out to all you deadly mob and allies
who continue to listen, watch and support our podcast. Your
feedback means the world. You can rate and review the
podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to our
socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line. We'd
love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman Podcast
is produced by Clint Curtis.
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