August 26, 2025 • 38 mins
Actor, presenter and podcaster Matty Mills is a proud First Nations and queer storyteller whose energy lights up every room. Known for his “sparkly” persona on screen and stage, Matty also brings honesty and depth to conversations about healing, culture and mental fitness.
In this episode, host Mundanara Bayles sits down with Matty for an open conversation about identity, belonging and the courage it takes to reclaim your story. Matty reflects on reconnecting with family, navigating grief and the role therapy played in strengthening his mental health. He speaks candidly about breaking through in the media, the pressure of representation and refusing to be boxed in by stereotypes.
Matty’s story is one of persistence, authenticity and cultural pride. From hosting red carpets to working with Baz Luhrmann, and now co-hosting First Things First with Brooke Blurton, Matty continues to use his platform to amplify First Nations and LGBTQIA+ voices.
This conversation is a reminder that behind every persona is a human story - of vulnerability, courage and connection. As Matty shares, building mental fitness means finding the strength to show up as your whole self and creating space for others to do the same.
Resources and links
Find out more about Gotcha4Life at www.gotcha4life.org and follow us on Instagram and Facebook @gotcha4life and Black Magic Woman Podcast on Instagram @blackmagicwomanpodcast.
Follow Matty on Instagram @itsmattymills.
About the podcast
Hosted by award-winning Indigenous businesswoman and Gotcha4Life Board Member Mundanara Bayles, and produced in partnership with Black Magic Woman, Mental Fitness Conversations centres First Nations voices in powerful conversations about culture, connection and what truly sustains mental fitness.
Content note
This episode includes discussion of mental health challenges which may be confronting. Please practise self-care and reach out if you need support. Services available 24/7 include 13YARN on 13 92 76 and Lifeline on 13 11 14.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Black Cast Unite our voices.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Gotcha for Life and Black Magic Woman podcast acknowledges the
traditional owners of the land which we recorded this episode.
We also acknowledge the traditional owners of the land from
where you, the listener or viewer are tuning in. We
would like to pay our respects to elders both past
and present. We acknowledge that this land always was and
always will be Aboriginal land. This podcast talks about mental health,
(00:32):
suicide and lived experience. If that brings anything up for you,
please take care while listening and remember you don't need
to worry alone. Welcome to Mental Fitness Conversations, a podcast
about how real people build their mental fitness through connection, community,
and simple everyday actions. Brought to you by Gotcha for
(00:53):
Life in partnership with Black Magic Woman.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Here's your host, Monda Narrabels.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Thank you so much for jumping on and listening to
this amazing partnership series. Black Magic Woman has partnered We've
Got You for Life. It's a foundation that is dear
to my life, where we don't want people to worry alone,
and also talking to First Nations peoples about life, culture, community, success, achievements,
(01:23):
but also things that haven't been so easy for us
to navigate in our lives as black fellows. So Mattie Mills,
this is a long time coming. And I run into
you when we're all dolled up and there's all these
other people that want your attention, so you kind of
don't want to be the one to hang around, and
you're like, I'll leave these white fellows fight over.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
But now I get you aller myself.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I'm here.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I'm really excited that you are here on Yagura Terrible Lands,
where I've lived for twenty five years. But I'm a Kouri,
I'm from Redfern. I'll always be from the block. But yeah,
I'm here back on Yagura Country and you're here, like
this is meant to be right, absolutely on this show,
I think it's important that our guests kind of introduced
(02:10):
themselves in their own words, so you are no stranger
to the microphone.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well, that's right.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
I'm Maddie Miles. I'm really grateful to be here in Meanjin, Brisbane.
It's a place that I have a long existing relationship with.
My nan actually lived here, so I came here a
lot of the time as a young person in the
school holidays, getting a Greyhound bus from Temworth up here
to you know, Brisbane, and spending the holidays with my
men who's now passed away. It's been three years since
(02:38):
she's been gone. But I have I have such a
personal connection to this place, so I always love coming
back and it's so great that we can be here together,
you know, in the same studio and do this yarn.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
But I was born.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
In the Western suburbs of Sydney with my mum, my dad,
and my three brothers and my sister, and that was
in nineteen ninety five. So I just turned thirty. I
feel like I'm getting old to you know. I feel
like I'm getting wiser, I think that's the word. I
feel like I'm starting to really understand myself more and
be in contact with really who I am.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
And I think it takes a while to get there.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yeah, there's so much pressure to have it all sorted
in the early twenties and I'm like, nah, that's a
right at passage.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
You just got to figure it out, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
So getting to thirty is really exciting for me, and
I feel really happy about where I am in my
life right now. I have a great partner, I live
in Sydney. My family all live back home on country,
on Cammillary Country, and I'm a very proud Kimillary man.
But I grew up in the Western suburbs of Sydney
with my mum as a single mom. My dad left
when I was very little. My dad is my Aboriginal
(03:43):
side of my heritage, and my mom is you know,
white Aussie, come from a very white Ossie Bogan family
in the.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Western suburbs of Sydney.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
So I have this, you know, a jewel identity that
sometimes is actually hard to grapple with because I really
feel connected to my Aboriginal side and not so much
my you know, white ancestry. And I think that comes
down to how much of my identity needs my attention,
love and care, and that part of myself as an
Aboriginal person really needs that in a world where it
(04:12):
isn't always given that respect. So I have these two
parts of myself. You know. My mum still lives in
the Western suburbs of Sydney and most of her family
lived there, but my dad and my aunt is my
five aunties. My uncle or grew up in Colorino, Brie,
which is a very small town in the northwest corner
of New South Wales on Kimillroy Country. Some people call
(04:32):
it Kimillroy or Gamilla Roy Country, and my dad grew
up on the Collie Mission there. His dad's from Saint George,
which is on the border or of New South Wales
and Queensland. So, you know, sometimes I do call myself
a Murray, but I'm a Kourie at heart, yes, and
so do you go for the state of origin.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
I have to go for the blue good, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I just don't feel that much of an affiliation with
the Maroons or even you know, even that part of
my identity in terms of you know, Saint George and
across the border. I've always felt like a Kori and
a very Proudcuillary man. But my dad left when I
was very young, so before I even started school, my
dad and my mom had issues in the relationship and
(05:14):
he left and only a few years later we were
told that my dad had passed away. So, you know,
growing up as a young kid and getting such heartbreaking
news at a young age, it really it breaks the
idea of what you think that you know, your world
was going to be. I thought one day my dad
would come back maybe one day I would meet my dad.
(05:37):
And this was you know, as a young person, always
hoping that there was going to be a relationship and
a connection with my dad therefore my Aboriginal side of
my family. But unfortunately, you know, at a very early age,
we were told that he had died and my mum
went on a bit of a spiral from that moment
and went into you know, a lot of addiction issues.
(05:57):
She battled with you know, heroin when we were really young,
and unfortunately that was her coping mechanism, but it didn't
do her any justice and it really created a difficult
life for her. She had many moments that led up
to a pivotal moment in all of our lives where
(06:17):
we were taken from her and put into the care system,
and we were taken as a group, so the three
of us boys were taken. My sister was left behind
she was thirteen at the time, and us three boys
were taken and put into the care system on the
central coast of New South Wales, and unfortunately, after a
year of being together, they ended up splitting us up,
(06:38):
so we were put into different homes and moved around
quite a lot. But during that process of being in
the care system. The agency that we were with, the
government agency, which is called Facts, now realized that my
dad didn't have a death certificate. So they went on
the hunt for a man who shouldn't be dead, but
we were told was dead. And it was such a
(07:01):
mind bending experience for us boys because we were like, no, no, no,
he's dead. We've always believed he's dead. He's he's never
been around. My mum was told, she told us, but
they couldn't accept that because there was no death certificate.
So they went on this hunt for my dad and
they found him. Stop he was alive.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Yeah, he was.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
And it makes me emotional because I remember the moment
of being told, you.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Know, your dad's alive. They found him.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
They found him.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, they found him in Tamworth and he had a
girlfriend and she had three kids and he was living
the stepdad life and taking care of these kids. And
they informed him that we had been taken into care,
we'd been in care for multiple years, and that they
would love to create a reconnection. And yeah, it was
(07:51):
such a crazy time for my brothers and I because
how old was you roughly nine nine years old, you know,
at an age where you understand exactly, you know, the
weight of the moment. It's not like you're too young
to really understand, you you h questioning everything.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Well, Black kids grow up pretty fast.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
And we were I was. I remember being a detective,
a mom, a dad at the age of five, you know. Yeah,
I you know, was always the one who wanted things
to be right in the household, and mom.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Struggled a lot with drugs.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So there was constantly as a five year old, six
year old walking around the streets trying to find her
and bring her home because she just wouldn't be at home,
you know. And so I played the role of a
very mature kid at the age of five. And I
always had this inerability to understand what was right and
what was wrong, even at that young age. So I,
(08:46):
you know, I at five and six and seven. We
had a yellow rose in the garden which represented Dad,
and whenever we would move from house to house, we
would take the flower with us and we'd replant it.
And so always this symbol of Dad was a yellow rose,
and so we would always say turned to water to Dad,
it's you know, it's your turn to water, Dad, And
this would be on the way to school or coming
(09:08):
home from school, and we had this acceptance that he
was no longer around and.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
He's never forgot him.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And the thing is, we made little pluques and it
was a whole you know, moment for us to just
make sure that dad was always.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
In spirit with us.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
I remembered, remembered, and I only remember one photo my
dad at that age, and he had dreadlocks, long dreadlocks,
so he had this long hair. But then when we
were reunited with him, when we were in care, he
had no hair. So as a kid, I went into
like detective mode. I was like, no, no, no, that's
(09:45):
not him, that's not him. And it felt like a
movie because we're paramatter at the facts, you know, headquarters.
They brought him out of a doorway one end of
the corridor and asked at the other end of the corridor,
and it was like this slow motion moment, you know,
getting to each other. But I remember first seeing him
and thinking that can't be him, as he didn't have
the dreads. But of course it was.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
And we were reunited with our dad, and.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
He worked for a couple of years on getting sober
and getting us out of care so he would come
every month and visit us in care He even built
such a great relationship with the carers that he ended
up staying with us in the end. And so he
really focused on getting himself to a point where he
could be a great dad, and he did that, and
he fought the court system, you know, for for a
(10:32):
good two years and one custody, and so we moved
with him when you know, when I was eleven years old,
and it was a moment that you know, changed my
life forever because it opened up all the possibilities of
connection and identity and exploring my aboriginality because it then
(10:56):
opened up my family to me, you know, my aunt.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
He belonged, belonging that's hard to disc up to non
Aboriginal people.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Oh, it felt like a whole had been filled, Like
there was always this hope and want for that to happen,
but I accepted at a young age that that probably
wouldn't happen because he wasn't around and he was, you know,
supposedly dead. But once I realized that, like I had
my dad, I then had my family in that connection.
(11:25):
So it was you know a massive journey from that
point on, and moved to Tamworth and then finished growing
up on country and you know, living.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
With my brothers and my dad.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
He ended up breaking up with the girlfriend and focusing
on us boys and getting his own house. And in
my eyes, he really is the superhero of my story
because black men aren't celebrated and nus.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I was going to say this money, how many of
our men, our black men yea, are demonized.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
That's right, put down.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And this stigma that still is attached to our dads,
our uncles, our brothers, our grandfathers kills me. The way
that society has treated and labeled and really kept our
black men down. These stories need to be told about
how many of our black men have fought the system
(12:18):
turn their lives around for their kids.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
You don't hear these stories.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
You don't hear these stories.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
And I think that it's the whole narrative that the
black man is a savage and he's angry and he's
not able to look after a family. And I think
that those views are just so racist and outdated, and
people like my dad and many other people in my family,
black men especially, are incredible people who always put their
(12:44):
family first and have fought their own demons to become
better men for their people, for their community. So yeah,
my dad is an incredibly soft hearted, beautiful fella who
has you know, traditional views, yet were so open to
also me being a gay man.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
You know, Like I remember when I came out to
him when I was.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Eighteen, Country wrote from ten work.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Yeah, you know, he comes from a family of you know,
loving and accepting people. Yet I was quite worried about
how my dad would accept me. And the thing that
he said to me when I told him that I
was gay is that he said, well, I can't wait
to meet the man who loves my son one day.
So for me, that was an invitation to fully be myself. Yes,
(13:31):
and he will accept me, my lifestyle, my partner, my
kids if I have them one day. And it's like
there was no better response that I could have had,
and that conversation basically ended there. It wasn't like this
massive thing that needed to be explained. He just said,
I accept you, I accept whatever's coming in the future,
and I love you, you know. And so my dad, Yeah,
(13:52):
he's an amazing man. His name is Richard, and.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I love I love a beautiful story and I know
everyone I yar on with I feel afterwards.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Sometimes I feel like I'm going to cry. Yeah, tell
me about you know. In terms of now living in Sydney, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Well I live in Sydney. My mom still lives in Sydney.
I'm lucky enough to still have my mom. But yeah,
there's not really a day that goes by where I
don't think that I might get a call. You know,
my mom still lives in the cycle of drug addiction
and abuse, and I try and do as much as
I can. But as I've gotten older, I've realized that
I just have to love her. And you talk about
(14:28):
accepting your mom at eighteen when she passed away, I
had to get to that point because there was this
barrier between us where I wanted her to be better.
I wanted her life to be changed. Yet if she
doesn't want that, and if that's not in her ability,
and if that's not something that she's willing to accept helpful,
I can't do anything about it. So I had to
(14:49):
get to a point where I went, you know what, Mom,
I accept you, love who you are. I love you,
and every time I catch up with you, I would
just love you.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
I go and see her.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
You know, she lives in Liverpool in Sydney, and you know,
I'll go out there and I'll pick her up and
will cruise around and you know, go for lunch. And
one day we're walking down the street of Liverpool. It's
outdoor more and when walking down the street, it's a
funny story, but basically every five meters someone kept on
calling out to her, Hey, Joe, Joe, Joe. By the
end of the street, it's probably only fifty meters, right,
(15:19):
it took us about forty five minutes to get to
the end because she knew everyone. She had her community
of people who you know, sit around the mall and
hang out there and have their drink and do whatever
they want. But I got to the end and I
said to us, and I feel like I'm with a
royal I said, this feels like I'm on a royal tool.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
Should you be kissing babies and hugging people like?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
It?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Just felt like, sure, we're in a different line.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
And I saw her happy knowing all the people in
the community. And you know, these people obviously struggle with
the same things that my mum struggled with. But I
got to a point in my life why I'm not
judging them I don't want to judge them. I feel
like this is where they're at in their world, and
this is their community that they've made and maybe they have,
you know, a sense of family there with each other,
(16:02):
which is beautiful. And I don't want to try and
change my mom. I'm always there if she wants help,
you know, if she gives me a phone call and
says she needs something, I'll drop everything and I'll help her.
But at the end of the day, I can't force
her to go and get help or change her life.
She's now fifty five and fifty four, and I'm just
happy that she's still in my life and that I
(16:22):
can still have a relationship with her and just love her. Yeah,
And so that's like I can't ask for more than that, right,
you can't. And I think that's the point that I
just need to. That's the point that I needed to
get to so that I could have a relationship. And
I think it takes time, because you want your mom
to be your mum, and unfortunately she hasn't done that
since we were taken away. So it's like, why should
(16:43):
I expect her to be able to do that now
when she's had such a She's had her own issues,
her own trouble, her a lot of challenges. You know,
she's facing her demons every day and unfortunately not winning
against them. So it's like, I'm not the person to
sit there and judge you. I would just love you,
and that's conditional, unconditional.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, Oh, Maddie, this is too much, I Nelli cried.
You've seen this, but you have been in the public
eye a lot. Yeah, and I feel like I've gotten
to know you through being on Mattie Male's TV.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
And you started off your career on The Getaway. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I saw you on Getaway. Yeah, but I didn't know
that that was your first gig.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Well, you know what, It's so funny that Getaways like
the thing that I break up because everyone thinks that,
you know, I got the phone call and that they
were like, you know, I want you for the show.
And there was this whole yarn that we were putting
out to the media that when I first was airing
and premiering on the show, because I was the first
ever blackfellow to ever be on Getaway. And before we
(17:46):
get to that, you know, there were so many moments
in my life where I saw an opportunity, and would
almost think to myself, why don't I present them with
an opportunity instead of waiting for someone to ask me,
Because at the end of the day, I'm a black fellow,
I'm gay, and I'm not the token person. That headshot
(18:07):
is at the front of the pile for many producers
networks across our country. We know how whitewashed it is.
So I was very aware that I'm not the person
they're looking for. Yet if I can go to them
with an opportunity and put it almost on a silver
platter and say, hey, give me a shot. This is
not just for me, but maybe for the benefit of
the network, then maybe they would give me a chance.
(18:31):
And I've always been that way, you know, when I
moved to my dad's when I was really young, and
after a few years, my dad relapsed and went back
into his cycle of you know, addiction and alcohol, and
I was looking for a way out of that world,
and so I wrote a letter to a boarding school
in Sydney when I was fourteen years old, and it
(18:53):
was called the Shaw School and it's still called the
Shaw School. And they'd never had a black fell ever
attend the school. And this is a school that was,
you know, from the eighteen hundreds, one of the most
prestigious boarding schools in Sydney, and they had an exposition
in Teenworth of all the boarding schools in New South
Wales and I saw the photo of the Opera House
and I thought to myself, I would love to be
(19:13):
able to get out of my circumstances, which was basically
looking like a repeat of my early life unfortunately, and
find a way out of this world and find structure, routine,
you know, and education. And so I wrote this letter
to the school. They ended up getting back to me
(19:37):
and saying no, shut me down immediately, and I wasn't
expecting that. And then six months later I had an
email to my school who I was, you know, where
I was currently at, and they wanted to meet me.
So the head master of the school flew to Teenworth,
met with me in person, met my family, met my community,
met my school and they said, we've had discussions over
(19:59):
the last six months based on your letter where we
want to give an Aboriginal scholarship to a kid for
them to be the first ever Indigenous kid to come
to this school.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
And you were it.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And it's forty thousand dollars a year, so it's a
very expensive school. And they said to me, but the
only thing is is that you need to improve your grades.
Your grades aren't at the level that you would succeed
in the school. You would really struggle. So this was
halfway through the year. They gave me six months and
I worked my little butt off. I was in year nine,
(20:32):
and I worked my ass off to get really good grades.
I ended up getting first in a lot of my subjects.
By the end of the year. I got, you know,
certificates at the end of the year awards ceremony and
we sent them a report cards. I ended up getting
the scholarship to start the next year. So I was
flown down to the school, had to do a speech
in front of the board at the end of the
year and pitch my case, showed them my grades, and
(20:53):
then was accepted.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Prove yourself, Prove myself and kid, you know, and so
and so.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
You were destined for this, the lit that you're living now,
To be confident from that age at fourteen, to step
outside of your community with no support.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Yeah, yeah, and going into a school where the kids
had everything, you know. I remember starting and seeing these
kids come into the room and the down with all
these things.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Everything had the latest of everything.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
The bare bones, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
I had a school uniform that we bought so that
it would fit me for three years, you know. So
it was baggy and oversized and from the second hand
school shop, you.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Know, because the blaze is five hundred bucks, that's.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Right, it's crazy. So I ended up going to this
boarding school for four years. I repeated, so they repeated me.
I was young for my years. They put me back
into U nine and I did four years at the
school at show and it was a really tough time
because I was the only black fellow in the school.
I was the guinea pig. I had no support and
it was the challenge of my life. But it was
(21:56):
the challenge that changed everything for me, you know. It
showed me a different world. It opened my world up.
I came from cold al in ten Worth, which is
this poor community, you know, on the wrong side of
the tracks most people think, and then sitting in a
dorm and in a boarding house with these kids who
called themselves the one percenters, who owned farms and organizations
(22:17):
and their dads and travel and had you know, the
Mercedes and the Bentley and I was just like dumbfounded
with the wealth.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I was like, wait, this actually exists, exists. I was.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
I went to their houses on the weekends sometimes if
they lived in Sydney, and it was you know, in
Mossmann and Bellevue Hill, and I was thinking, what are
these mansions? You know, like it was so out of
my world. And then I would go home in the
holidays and get back to go back to the Mish
with the fans, and you know, I would get home
and I would be like, okay, two weeks here, just
suck it up, yes, And then.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Talk about walking in two worlds, trying to navigate not
just a white world which we live in today, but
a privileged white in a boarding school. Then going back
to the blackest right environment, which is you know, the Mish,
your community, and you then have to adapt, don't you.
(23:11):
You can't be that kid from the boarding school when
you get back to the Mesh.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
And I soon realized what I was craving was like
the routine of the boarding school was everything for me.
I wasn't there when you when I went home, you know,
I never had routine, never had structure.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
Sometimes we don't even have feed.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
So it's like to be able to wake up, go
have food, go to school, do your school, go to
your sport, come back, have dinner. Everything was set out.
You did your homework for two hours. It felt like
it was everything that I needed at that age of
my life for me now to be at this point,
you know.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So you find yourself with that experience that has shaped
you to who you are and how you live your
life today.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
That's right. You need structure, yep, I do.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
And when you went Overseas recently and celebrated your thirtieth
and went to how many beyond say con stop.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Let me just blackfellow.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
Here to beyon.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I know it's a pinch me mo.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
My dad commented on my Facebook. I put a shot
of me on the Eiffel Tower, you know, went up
the lift and went up to the top of it.
And he's and he wrote, I feel so proud seeing you,
a young boy from Cold al standing on the Eiffel Tower.
You know, my dad understands the trajectory that's happened. He's
understood that every choice I've made has got me to
a point, you know, and I really I really start
(24:28):
to like reflect on that now because it's been so
long and I'm so far from that young boy who
was in those conditions and living on the mish. You know,
even though when I go home, I stay with my family.
I don't go and get a hotel and stay in
you know, flash accommodation. I go back and I stay
with the fan because I'm no better than.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Them, or I'm no, I don't have any reason why
you go home.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
That's the reason you go to you totally, and so like,
there's there's no better feeling than going home and being
with my nieces and nephews.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I watch your socials and you've got a podcast as well,
Brook Loden, and it's called First Things First, First Things First.
But back in the day it was it's not so PG.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
It was a play on words because not so much
parental guidance. But nobody got that. They just wanted to
take off our clothes not so PG. And I was like, okay, no,
but I know what you're doing, Like you want us
to be raunchy, but I'm not that raunchy. I can
pretend to be, but I'm like, you're not going to
get all the content you want from me if this
is the angle. So I ended up having a conversation
with them, and I was like, can we just change
(25:32):
the name because people don't get it not so PG.
They're expecting us to come on here and talk about
all this crazy shit and it's just just yeah. So
First Things First is much better title. It resonates with
First Nations community. But also, you know, I'm not afraid
to be the first in many doors. And that's where
that getaway conversation comes in. Because I was watching the
(25:52):
show one night on a Thursday in COVID and oh no,
it was just outside of COVID, but I was watching
the show and I remember thinking to myself, I walked away,
came back and I was like, wait, did the presenter change?
Speaker 5 (26:06):
I was like, I don't know. And the next presenter
came and they looked exactly the same.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
And I'm like, hold up. I'm like, am I wigging out?
Or all these people just blonde hair and blue eye
on this show? And I was like, I'm going to
do some research. So I looked online and I went
through all the presenters on the show, and every single
person was white. There was something like thirty that had
been either on or guest presented, printed out the document,
(26:32):
sent an email to a friend at Channel nine and said, Hey,
I would love a meeting with John Walsh, who's the
executive producer of get Away. He also does the voice
in the.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Book Get You From Being Fourteen writing a letter say
I want to get into this school, but now Channel
you need to talk to me about this show.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
And so I literally went and had a meeting with
the EP and I said, Hey, this is a show
talking about country and talk in taking people on experiences.
Yet you've never had a First Nation's lens to this
show a presenter, or you've never highlighted First Nations tour
in this country, So can you give me a shot?
(27:07):
And he was like, Oh, it's not something we normally
like focus on. It's more like international stuff. And he said,
but if you want, go and shoot something out of
your own pocket and send it in as a mock
segment and I'll see if you're good enough. So I,
when I hired a camera man the next day, wrote
a segment when it did a First Nations walking tour
down at Circular Key any Margaret Yep and I cut
(27:30):
it within a day. I had it back to him
in two days you know, I was like, this four
minute segment. It looked like as good as a getaway segment.
You know, we did a really good job. And I
sent it in and he was shocked. He said, oh,
I didn't think that you would go to this effort.
He thought, I'll shoot it on an iPhone, send something in,
you know, a piece to camera and low expectations, low expectations,
(27:51):
and he said, okay, we'll give you a shot. And
so from that moment, he you know, opened up the
doors to the production team and the connections within the network,
and I was able to do you know, many shoots
on Getaway, but most peop will think that, you know,
they called me and it was, oh, you're you're a
great presenter. Let's let's get you on the network. And
it's like, that's not how it happened. I actually had
(28:11):
to go in do something that no one else has
ever had to do by proving yourself and shooting your
own mock episode. No white presenter has ever walked in
there and gone, hey, I'll go and shoot something, send
it in.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And of course very different, veryterior expectations.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
So you know, that's how that came about. But I've
never been afraid to be the first, and I will
keep on doing that. Like, whenever I think of an idea,
I feel like it's for me. If I'm constantly thinking
of something, that means it's supposed to be you know,
I was supposed to activate that thought. So I continue
to do that. And that's sort of why I pushed
(28:48):
the boundaries of the industry when when you know, I'm
doing my job because I'm like, even Nova now is
the first radio station to have a rap you know
that was that came from.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Working with yous to be better.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, I was going to say, the pressure from being
in the media and the life that you're living and
being in the public eye.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Do you ever kind of experience.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Days where you're not feeling good like is because you
don't obviously we don't always put those moments online, but
they're put to see you get a highlight reel. Yeah,
So how do you manage the spotlight and being in
the public eye and then at the same time trying
to be true to yourself to look after yourself and
your own mental health because we don't see what you
(29:36):
know behind closed doors. So you obviously do have days
where you're not feeling like you want to do this
presenting job or get on and do a podcast.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I've struggled with my mental health over the years. That's
something that I've become more transparent about. It's a it's
been a journey for me because I remember in my
early twenties, I kept on thinking to myself, why don't
everyone's talking about mental health. I don't feel like I
have any mental health problems or issues. I'm not struggling
that in that part of myself. But the reality is
(30:07):
is that I was just pushing everything down. I was
numbing myself with external things, and I wasn't facing the
things that actually needed to be faced.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
You know, it wasn't dealing with anything.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
I wasn't dealing with anything. I didn't want to speak
about my upbringing. I didn't want to talk about my
life that you know, my early life. There was always
these things that were just like push it to the
back and move on. And I was really good at that.
But you know, in when I became to my mid twenties,
I started to go to therapy and I started to
really unpack some of my life experiences, especially those early days,
(30:42):
and it was like a waterfall, you know, it's a
scary thing once you start opening up, but it is
now it comes out. It does, it comes out, and
you start to realize that, you know, there's so many
things that you've done in your life, or there's so
many decisions you've made based on your experiences, and our
whole life is just you know, a number of experiences
that we've lived and that's what we all or life right.
(31:04):
And it's like once I started unpacking that early childhood
staff and I've been to you know, therapy, but I
also do physical fitness, which really helps me. I started
to really understand myself more too. And it's taken five
years of hard work and.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Doing the work as well.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
At the same time, you've been lending your voice to
very important mental health conversations. Yeah, which I kind of
think to myself, you know, like we've put a lot
of pressure on ourselves as well. But hearing your story
now I know why you are an advocate to kind
of shine a light on mental health and well being.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
And I think in life there are some moments that
you know they blindside you. You know, you think you're strong.
I remember thinking so in twenty twenty two, I was
at a point where I felt quite strong within my
mental health, and and that year my brother was murdered
at the age of thirty two, so he was, you know,
his life was taken so young. And that was a
(32:08):
moment that blindsided me and crumbled all the work that
I felt like I had done, and I felt like
I was at ground zero again, because how can a
moment like that, a traumatic moment not affect.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
You, you know what, It affects you to your core.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
So that from twenty twenty two until now, I've had
to put in a lot of work through therapy but
also just really trying to understand myself and know what
are the external factors that really can affect my mental health.
You know, I've in my twenties, you know, I dabbled
(32:40):
a lot with you know, drugs and alcohol and.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Party, the party of life.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
But I have to be really careful with that because
look at my lineage, look at my family history, and
on both sides, it's not just my dad and the
stereotypes of black fellows being alcoholics, but my mom's family.
My mom my dad both struggled with alcohol issues, drug issues.
So it's like I need to really focus on not
(33:06):
allowing those things into my life often or if at all,
because they can really crumble my mental health, And so
I try.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You think you're on top of it, that's right. Are
you're going really good?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, then bang bangs in an instant things can quickly
go backwards, that's right.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
So yeah, I find my mental health is a focus
at the moment, and it's something that I need to
really hone in on. It can't just be this airy
fairy thing that is an idea, but it's actually your
mental health is your computer, it is how you operate,
it is what is it's your brain. You know, if
you're feeling good, you're going to be you know, living
(33:47):
a much happier life. So yeah, it is something that
I've been more focused on. I would say over the
last three years, what.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Would you say to your fourteen year old self that
was struggling for these younger mob now listening to this
to take some you know, not words of wisdom, but
just even words of inspiration or encouragement, What would you
say to your fourteen year old self?
Speaker 4 (34:09):
What you want isn't as far as you think. There
are moments in life where you think they are so
far away. There are things that you want in life
that just seem impossible, not in arms reach. Yet if
you just chip away a little by little, you will
get there. And I'm a testament to that. Like the
life that I leave now is really a dream life.
(34:31):
I get to do exactly what I wanted, and I
had those dreams at fourteen, younger than that. So everything
we want in life is possible. It's not impossible. It's
not as far as you think. You just have to
make the choices to step in the right direction every day,
and sometimes you're off track and sometimes you have to
get back on track, and that's fine. But yeah, I
(34:52):
want to write a kid's book about choice.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I love that, you know.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
That's Yeah, so there's there's a kid's book and it's
sort of a pick your own adventure. Yeah, so you
know do you get to make different decisions on each
age which leads you to a consequence, and at the
end of the book you end up at a place
And it's about the fact that I've realized that I've
made a lot of choices in my life to get
to this point, and sometimes they weren't great choices, but
(35:17):
I'm at this point and if I made different choices,
where would I be and it's about like really just
being the driver of your own life and realizing that
you are the person who gets to decide where you
end up.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
That's exactly it.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah, and thank you for trusting me, of course, to
share your story with and to my listeners and to
people now that also are connected with another community that
I'm part of, which has got You for Life. Yes,
thank you for lending your voice to our foundation. And
I really do hope that we get to work together
(35:53):
in the future.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Would love to support each other.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
You're such an incredible person and you're doing amazing things
for our community. So I want to give you your
flowers because your making waves in this industry like no
one else and I look up to you and I
think that's such a beautiful thing that you're doing. And
also giving our community a voice, you know, at the
back of a referendum that said no, yet you've been
(36:16):
able to platform so many of our voices.
Speaker 5 (36:18):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
But one day we'll catch up. Would love and have
a yarn. But thank you for being part of this
partnership series. And I do want to really say thank
you to Gotcha for Life, because if it wasn't for
this opportunity, I don't know when I would have been
able to have this yat with you. So thank you
for making time out of your busy schedule to come
here and share your life with now the rest of
(36:42):
the world if they didn't know, now you know who
this brother is. So look on that note like, I
just can't wait to see what else you do.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
You're only thirty.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
I probably will be in Spain with you one day
and we'll probably go on party and your concerts so
with next tour yes next.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
To her, but yeah, thanks for coming in to the
studio and enjoy your time here on Beautiful Jager Terrible Lands.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
You look at the day, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I know he's not here to see this, and I
know all you MOB.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Every single episode has been a different person, a different story,
different lessons that you might be able to learn from
and just to be inspired by. Every time I have
people in the studio and hearing their stories. As hard
as it is sometimes to hear people's stories and experiences,
(37:35):
there is just so much that we relate to and
with and connect on. So I know all you MOB,
some of you may be feeling a little bit triggered
by this conversation, don't forget one three Yarn twenty four hours,
seven days a week. We'll make sure that we've got
some links in the show. Note If you are feeling
triggered or a little bit overwhelmed from this conversation with
(37:58):
beautiful Madie, so on that note, I hope you've enjoyed
this amazing episode.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Until next time, poker.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Now, thanks for tuning in to mental fitness conversations. Keep
building your emotional muscles with the free Mental Fitness Gym
app packed with tools, tips, and everyday actions to support
your mental fitness. Download it from the App Store or
Google play Store, or visit the Mentalfitnessgym dot org. If
anything in this episode brought something up for you, you
(38:26):
don't have to worry alone. Reach out to a trusted
friend or family member and know that support is available.
You can contact Lifeline on one three double one one
four or one three yarn at one three nine, two
seven six for free and confidential support for Aboriginal and
torrostraight Islander people. If you enjoyed this episode, leave us
(38:47):
a rating, share it with someone in your village, or
drop us a message. We'd love to hear what you
think and don't forget to follow Black Magic Woman and
Gotcha for Life on all socials to keep the conversation
going
Black Cast Unite our voices.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Gotcha for Life and Black Magic Woman podcast acknowledges the
traditional owners of the land which we recorded this episode.
We also acknowledge the traditional owners of the land from
where you, the listener or viewer are tuning in. We
would like to pay our respects to elders both past
and present. We acknowledge that this land always was and
always will be Aboriginal land. This podcast talks about mental health,
(00:32):
suicide and lived experience. If that brings anything up for you,
please take care while listening and remember you don't need
to worry alone. Welcome to Mental Fitness Conversations, a podcast
about how real people build their mental fitness through connection, community,
and simple everyday actions. Brought to you by Gotcha for
(00:53):
Life in partnership with Black Magic Woman.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Here's your host, Monda Narrabels.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Thank you so much for jumping on and listening to
this amazing partnership series. Black Magic Woman has partnered We've
Got You for Life. It's a foundation that is dear
to my life, where we don't want people to worry alone,
and also talking to First Nations peoples about life, culture, community, success, achievements,
(01:23):
but also things that haven't been so easy for us
to navigate in our lives as black fellows. So Mattie Mills,
this is a long time coming. And I run into
you when we're all dolled up and there's all these
other people that want your attention, so you kind of
don't want to be the one to hang around, and
you're like, I'll leave these white fellows fight over.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
But now I get you aller myself.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I'm here.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I'm really excited that you are here on Yagura Terrible Lands,
where I've lived for twenty five years. But I'm a Kouri,
I'm from Redfern. I'll always be from the block. But yeah,
I'm here back on Yagura Country and you're here, like
this is meant to be right, absolutely on this show,
I think it's important that our guests kind of introduced
(02:10):
themselves in their own words, so you are no stranger
to the microphone.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well, that's right.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
I'm Maddie Miles. I'm really grateful to be here in Meanjin, Brisbane.
It's a place that I have a long existing relationship with.
My nan actually lived here, so I came here a
lot of the time as a young person in the
school holidays, getting a Greyhound bus from Temworth up here
to you know, Brisbane, and spending the holidays with my
men who's now passed away. It's been three years since
(02:38):
she's been gone. But I have I have such a
personal connection to this place, so I always love coming
back and it's so great that we can be here together,
you know, in the same studio and do this yarn.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
But I was born.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
In the Western suburbs of Sydney with my mum, my dad,
and my three brothers and my sister, and that was
in nineteen ninety five. So I just turned thirty. I
feel like I'm getting old to you know. I feel
like I'm getting wiser, I think that's the word. I
feel like I'm starting to really understand myself more and
be in contact with really who I am.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
And I think it takes a while to get there.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yeah, there's so much pressure to have it all sorted
in the early twenties and I'm like, nah, that's a
right at passage.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
You just got to figure it out, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
So getting to thirty is really exciting for me, and
I feel really happy about where I am in my
life right now. I have a great partner, I live
in Sydney. My family all live back home on country,
on Cammillary Country, and I'm a very proud Kimillary man.
But I grew up in the Western suburbs of Sydney
with my mum as a single mom. My dad left
when I was very little. My dad is my Aboriginal
(03:43):
side of my heritage, and my mom is you know,
white Aussie, come from a very white Ossie Bogan family
in the.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Western suburbs of Sydney.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
So I have this, you know, a jewel identity that
sometimes is actually hard to grapple with because I really
feel connected to my Aboriginal side and not so much
my you know, white ancestry. And I think that comes
down to how much of my identity needs my attention,
love and care, and that part of myself as an
Aboriginal person really needs that in a world where it
(04:12):
isn't always given that respect. So I have these two
parts of myself. You know. My mum still lives in
the Western suburbs of Sydney and most of her family
lived there, but my dad and my aunt is my
five aunties. My uncle or grew up in Colorino, Brie,
which is a very small town in the northwest corner
of New South Wales on Kimillroy Country. Some people call
(04:32):
it Kimillroy or Gamilla Roy Country, and my dad grew
up on the Collie Mission there. His dad's from Saint George,
which is on the border or of New South Wales
and Queensland. So, you know, sometimes I do call myself
a Murray, but I'm a Kourie at heart, yes, and
so do you go for the state of origin.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
I have to go for the blue good, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I just don't feel that much of an affiliation with
the Maroons or even you know, even that part of
my identity in terms of you know, Saint George and
across the border. I've always felt like a Kori and
a very Proudcuillary man. But my dad left when I
was very young, so before I even started school, my
dad and my mom had issues in the relationship and
(05:14):
he left and only a few years later we were
told that my dad had passed away. So, you know,
growing up as a young kid and getting such heartbreaking
news at a young age, it really it breaks the
idea of what you think that you know, your world
was going to be. I thought one day my dad
would come back maybe one day I would meet my dad.
(05:37):
And this was you know, as a young person, always
hoping that there was going to be a relationship and
a connection with my dad therefore my Aboriginal side of
my family. But unfortunately, you know, at a very early age,
we were told that he had died and my mum
went on a bit of a spiral from that moment
and went into you know, a lot of addiction issues.
(05:57):
She battled with you know, heroin when we were really young,
and unfortunately that was her coping mechanism, but it didn't
do her any justice and it really created a difficult
life for her. She had many moments that led up
to a pivotal moment in all of our lives where
(06:17):
we were taken from her and put into the care system,
and we were taken as a group, so the three
of us boys were taken. My sister was left behind
she was thirteen at the time, and us three boys
were taken and put into the care system on the
central coast of New South Wales, and unfortunately, after a
year of being together, they ended up splitting us up,
(06:38):
so we were put into different homes and moved around
quite a lot. But during that process of being in
the care system. The agency that we were with, the
government agency, which is called Facts, now realized that my
dad didn't have a death certificate. So they went on
the hunt for a man who shouldn't be dead, but
we were told was dead. And it was such a
(07:01):
mind bending experience for us boys because we were like, no, no, no,
he's dead. We've always believed he's dead. He's he's never
been around. My mum was told, she told us, but
they couldn't accept that because there was no death certificate.
So they went on this hunt for my dad and
they found him. Stop he was alive.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Yeah, he was.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
And it makes me emotional because I remember the moment
of being told, you.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Know, your dad's alive. They found him.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
They found him.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, they found him in Tamworth and he had a
girlfriend and she had three kids and he was living
the stepdad life and taking care of these kids. And
they informed him that we had been taken into care,
we'd been in care for multiple years, and that they
would love to create a reconnection. And yeah, it was
(07:51):
such a crazy time for my brothers and I because
how old was you roughly nine nine years old, you know,
at an age where you understand exactly, you know, the
weight of the moment. It's not like you're too young
to really understand, you you h questioning everything.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Well, Black kids grow up pretty fast.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
And we were I was. I remember being a detective,
a mom, a dad at the age of five, you know. Yeah,
I you know, was always the one who wanted things
to be right in the household, and mom.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Struggled a lot with drugs.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So there was constantly as a five year old, six
year old walking around the streets trying to find her
and bring her home because she just wouldn't be at home,
you know. And so I played the role of a
very mature kid at the age of five. And I
always had this inerability to understand what was right and
what was wrong, even at that young age. So I,
(08:46):
you know, I at five and six and seven. We
had a yellow rose in the garden which represented Dad,
and whenever we would move from house to house, we
would take the flower with us and we'd replant it.
And so always this symbol of Dad was a yellow rose,
and so we would always say turned to water to Dad,
it's you know, it's your turn to water, Dad, And
this would be on the way to school or coming
(09:08):
home from school, and we had this acceptance that he
was no longer around and.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
He's never forgot him.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And the thing is, we made little pluques and it
was a whole you know, moment for us to just
make sure that dad was always.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
In spirit with us.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
I remembered, remembered, and I only remember one photo my
dad at that age, and he had dreadlocks, long dreadlocks,
so he had this long hair. But then when we
were reunited with him, when we were in care, he
had no hair. So as a kid, I went into
like detective mode. I was like, no, no, no, that's
(09:45):
not him, that's not him. And it felt like a
movie because we're paramatter at the facts, you know, headquarters.
They brought him out of a doorway one end of
the corridor and asked at the other end of the corridor,
and it was like this slow motion moment, you know,
getting to each other. But I remember first seeing him
and thinking that can't be him, as he didn't have
the dreads. But of course it was.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
And we were reunited with our dad, and.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
He worked for a couple of years on getting sober
and getting us out of care so he would come
every month and visit us in care He even built
such a great relationship with the carers that he ended
up staying with us in the end. And so he
really focused on getting himself to a point where he
could be a great dad, and he did that, and
he fought the court system, you know, for for a
(10:32):
good two years and one custody, and so we moved
with him when you know, when I was eleven years old,
and it was a moment that you know, changed my
life forever because it opened up all the possibilities of
connection and identity and exploring my aboriginality because it then
(10:56):
opened up my family to me, you know, my aunt.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
He belonged, belonging that's hard to disc up to non
Aboriginal people.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Oh, it felt like a whole had been filled, Like
there was always this hope and want for that to happen,
but I accepted at a young age that that probably
wouldn't happen because he wasn't around and he was, you know,
supposedly dead. But once I realized that, like I had
my dad, I then had my family in that connection.
(11:25):
So it was you know a massive journey from that
point on, and moved to Tamworth and then finished growing
up on country and you know, living.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
With my brothers and my dad.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
He ended up breaking up with the girlfriend and focusing
on us boys and getting his own house. And in
my eyes, he really is the superhero of my story
because black men aren't celebrated and nus.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I was going to say this money, how many of
our men, our black men yea, are demonized.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
That's right, put down.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And this stigma that still is attached to our dads,
our uncles, our brothers, our grandfathers kills me. The way
that society has treated and labeled and really kept our
black men down. These stories need to be told about
how many of our black men have fought the system
(12:18):
turn their lives around for their kids.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
You don't hear these stories.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
You don't hear these stories.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
And I think that it's the whole narrative that the
black man is a savage and he's angry and he's
not able to look after a family. And I think
that those views are just so racist and outdated, and
people like my dad and many other people in my family,
black men especially, are incredible people who always put their
(12:44):
family first and have fought their own demons to become
better men for their people, for their community. So yeah,
my dad is an incredibly soft hearted, beautiful fella who
has you know, traditional views, yet were so open to
also me being a gay man.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
You know, Like I remember when I came out to
him when I was.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Eighteen, Country wrote from ten work.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Yeah, you know, he comes from a family of you know,
loving and accepting people. Yet I was quite worried about
how my dad would accept me. And the thing that
he said to me when I told him that I
was gay is that he said, well, I can't wait
to meet the man who loves my son one day.
So for me, that was an invitation to fully be myself. Yes,
(13:31):
and he will accept me, my lifestyle, my partner, my
kids if I have them one day. And it's like
there was no better response that I could have had,
and that conversation basically ended there. It wasn't like this
massive thing that needed to be explained. He just said,
I accept you, I accept whatever's coming in the future,
and I love you, you know. And so my dad, Yeah,
(13:52):
he's an amazing man. His name is Richard, and.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I love I love a beautiful story and I know
everyone I yar on with I feel afterwards.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Sometimes I feel like I'm going to cry. Yeah, tell
me about you know. In terms of now living in Sydney, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Well I live in Sydney. My mom still lives in Sydney.
I'm lucky enough to still have my mom. But yeah,
there's not really a day that goes by where I
don't think that I might get a call. You know,
my mom still lives in the cycle of drug addiction
and abuse, and I try and do as much as
I can. But as I've gotten older, I've realized that
I just have to love her. And you talk about
(14:28):
accepting your mom at eighteen when she passed away, I
had to get to that point because there was this
barrier between us where I wanted her to be better.
I wanted her life to be changed. Yet if she
doesn't want that, and if that's not in her ability,
and if that's not something that she's willing to accept helpful,
I can't do anything about it. So I had to
(14:49):
get to a point where I went, you know what, Mom,
I accept you, love who you are. I love you,
and every time I catch up with you, I would
just love you.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
I go and see her.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
You know, she lives in Liverpool in Sydney, and you know,
I'll go out there and I'll pick her up and
will cruise around and you know, go for lunch. And
one day we're walking down the street of Liverpool. It's
outdoor more and when walking down the street, it's a
funny story, but basically every five meters someone kept on
calling out to her, Hey, Joe, Joe, Joe. By the
end of the street, it's probably only fifty meters, right,
(15:19):
it took us about forty five minutes to get to
the end because she knew everyone. She had her community
of people who you know, sit around the mall and
hang out there and have their drink and do whatever
they want. But I got to the end and I
said to us, and I feel like I'm with a
royal I said, this feels like I'm on a royal tool.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
Should you be kissing babies and hugging people like?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
It?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Just felt like, sure, we're in a different line.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
And I saw her happy knowing all the people in
the community. And you know, these people obviously struggle with
the same things that my mum struggled with. But I
got to a point in my life why I'm not
judging them I don't want to judge them. I feel
like this is where they're at in their world, and
this is their community that they've made and maybe they have,
you know, a sense of family there with each other,
(16:02):
which is beautiful. And I don't want to try and
change my mom. I'm always there if she wants help,
you know, if she gives me a phone call and
says she needs something, I'll drop everything and I'll help her.
But at the end of the day, I can't force
her to go and get help or change her life.
She's now fifty five and fifty four, and I'm just
happy that she's still in my life and that I
(16:22):
can still have a relationship with her and just love her. Yeah,
And so that's like I can't ask for more than that, right,
you can't. And I think that's the point that I
just need to. That's the point that I needed to
get to so that I could have a relationship. And
I think it takes time, because you want your mom
to be your mum, and unfortunately she hasn't done that
since we were taken away. So it's like, why should
(16:43):
I expect her to be able to do that now
when she's had such a She's had her own issues,
her own trouble, her a lot of challenges. You know,
she's facing her demons every day and unfortunately not winning
against them. So it's like, I'm not the person to
sit there and judge you. I would just love you,
and that's conditional, unconditional.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, Oh, Maddie, this is too much, I Nelli cried.
You've seen this, but you have been in the public
eye a lot. Yeah, and I feel like I've gotten
to know you through being on Mattie Male's TV.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
And you started off your career on The Getaway. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I saw you on Getaway. Yeah, but I didn't know
that that was your first gig.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Well, you know what, It's so funny that Getaways like
the thing that I break up because everyone thinks that,
you know, I got the phone call and that they
were like, you know, I want you for the show.
And there was this whole yarn that we were putting
out to the media that when I first was airing
and premiering on the show, because I was the first
ever blackfellow to ever be on Getaway. And before we
(17:46):
get to that, you know, there were so many moments
in my life where I saw an opportunity, and would
almost think to myself, why don't I present them with
an opportunity instead of waiting for someone to ask me,
Because at the end of the day, I'm a black fellow,
I'm gay, and I'm not the token person. That headshot
(18:07):
is at the front of the pile for many producers
networks across our country. We know how whitewashed it is.
So I was very aware that I'm not the person
they're looking for. Yet if I can go to them
with an opportunity and put it almost on a silver
platter and say, hey, give me a shot. This is
not just for me, but maybe for the benefit of
the network, then maybe they would give me a chance.
(18:31):
And I've always been that way, you know, when I
moved to my dad's when I was really young, and
after a few years, my dad relapsed and went back
into his cycle of you know, addiction and alcohol, and
I was looking for a way out of that world,
and so I wrote a letter to a boarding school
in Sydney when I was fourteen years old, and it
(18:53):
was called the Shaw School and it's still called the
Shaw School. And they'd never had a black fell ever
attend the school. And this is a school that was,
you know, from the eighteen hundreds, one of the most
prestigious boarding schools in Sydney, and they had an exposition
in Teenworth of all the boarding schools in New South
Wales and I saw the photo of the Opera House
and I thought to myself, I would love to be
(19:13):
able to get out of my circumstances, which was basically
looking like a repeat of my early life unfortunately, and
find a way out of this world and find structure, routine,
you know, and education. And so I wrote this letter
to the school. They ended up getting back to me
(19:37):
and saying no, shut me down immediately, and I wasn't
expecting that. And then six months later I had an
email to my school who I was, you know, where
I was currently at, and they wanted to meet me.
So the head master of the school flew to Teenworth,
met with me in person, met my family, met my community,
met my school and they said, we've had discussions over
(19:59):
the last six months based on your letter where we
want to give an Aboriginal scholarship to a kid for
them to be the first ever Indigenous kid to come
to this school.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
And you were it.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And it's forty thousand dollars a year, so it's a
very expensive school. And they said to me, but the
only thing is is that you need to improve your grades.
Your grades aren't at the level that you would succeed
in the school. You would really struggle. So this was
halfway through the year. They gave me six months and
I worked my little butt off. I was in year nine,
(20:32):
and I worked my ass off to get really good grades.
I ended up getting first in a lot of my subjects.
By the end of the year. I got, you know,
certificates at the end of the year awards ceremony and
we sent them a report cards. I ended up getting
the scholarship to start the next year. So I was
flown down to the school, had to do a speech
in front of the board at the end of the
year and pitch my case, showed them my grades, and
(20:53):
then was accepted.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Prove yourself, Prove myself and kid, you know, and so
and so.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
You were destined for this, the lit that you're living now,
To be confident from that age at fourteen, to step
outside of your community with no support.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Yeah, yeah, and going into a school where the kids
had everything, you know. I remember starting and seeing these
kids come into the room and the down with all
these things.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Everything had the latest of everything.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
The bare bones, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
I had a school uniform that we bought so that
it would fit me for three years, you know. So
it was baggy and oversized and from the second hand
school shop, you.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Know, because the blaze is five hundred bucks, that's.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Right, it's crazy. So I ended up going to this
boarding school for four years. I repeated, so they repeated me.
I was young for my years. They put me back
into U nine and I did four years at the
school at show and it was a really tough time
because I was the only black fellow in the school.
I was the guinea pig. I had no support and
it was the challenge of my life. But it was
(21:56):
the challenge that changed everything for me, you know. It
showed me a different world. It opened my world up.
I came from cold al in ten Worth, which is
this poor community, you know, on the wrong side of
the tracks most people think, and then sitting in a
dorm and in a boarding house with these kids who
called themselves the one percenters, who owned farms and organizations
(22:17):
and their dads and travel and had you know, the
Mercedes and the Bentley and I was just like dumbfounded
with the wealth.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I was like, wait, this actually exists, exists. I was.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
I went to their houses on the weekends sometimes if
they lived in Sydney, and it was you know, in
Mossmann and Bellevue Hill, and I was thinking, what are
these mansions? You know, like it was so out of
my world. And then I would go home in the
holidays and get back to go back to the Mish
with the fans, and you know, I would get home
and I would be like, okay, two weeks here, just
suck it up, yes, And then.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Talk about walking in two worlds, trying to navigate not
just a white world which we live in today, but
a privileged white in a boarding school. Then going back
to the blackest right environment, which is you know, the Mish,
your community, and you then have to adapt, don't you.
(23:11):
You can't be that kid from the boarding school when
you get back to the Mesh.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
And I soon realized what I was craving was like
the routine of the boarding school was everything for me.
I wasn't there when you when I went home, you know,
I never had routine, never had structure.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
Sometimes we don't even have feed.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
So it's like to be able to wake up, go
have food, go to school, do your school, go to
your sport, come back, have dinner. Everything was set out.
You did your homework for two hours. It felt like
it was everything that I needed at that age of
my life for me now to be at this point,
you know.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So you find yourself with that experience that has shaped
you to who you are and how you live your
life today.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
That's right. You need structure, yep, I do.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
And when you went Overseas recently and celebrated your thirtieth
and went to how many beyond say con stop.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Let me just blackfellow.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
Here to beyon.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I know it's a pinch me mo.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
My dad commented on my Facebook. I put a shot
of me on the Eiffel Tower, you know, went up
the lift and went up to the top of it.
And he's and he wrote, I feel so proud seeing you,
a young boy from Cold al standing on the Eiffel Tower.
You know, my dad understands the trajectory that's happened. He's
understood that every choice I've made has got me to
a point, you know, and I really I really start
(24:28):
to like reflect on that now because it's been so
long and I'm so far from that young boy who
was in those conditions and living on the mish. You know,
even though when I go home, I stay with my family.
I don't go and get a hotel and stay in
you know, flash accommodation. I go back and I stay
with the fan because I'm no better than.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Them, or I'm no, I don't have any reason why
you go home.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
That's the reason you go to you totally, and so like,
there's there's no better feeling than going home and being
with my nieces and nephews.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I watch your socials and you've got a podcast as well,
Brook Loden, and it's called First Things First, First Things First.
But back in the day it was it's not so PG.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
It was a play on words because not so much
parental guidance. But nobody got that. They just wanted to
take off our clothes not so PG. And I was like, okay, no,
but I know what you're doing, Like you want us
to be raunchy, but I'm not that raunchy. I can
pretend to be, but I'm like, you're not going to
get all the content you want from me if this
is the angle. So I ended up having a conversation
with them, and I was like, can we just change
(25:32):
the name because people don't get it not so PG.
They're expecting us to come on here and talk about
all this crazy shit and it's just just yeah. So
First Things First is much better title. It resonates with
First Nations community. But also, you know, I'm not afraid
to be the first in many doors. And that's where
that getaway conversation comes in. Because I was watching the
(25:52):
show one night on a Thursday in COVID and oh no,
it was just outside of COVID, but I was watching
the show and I remember thinking to myself, I walked away,
came back and I was like, wait, did the presenter change?
Speaker 5 (26:06):
I was like, I don't know. And the next presenter
came and they looked exactly the same.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
And I'm like, hold up. I'm like, am I wigging out?
Or all these people just blonde hair and blue eye
on this show? And I was like, I'm going to
do some research. So I looked online and I went
through all the presenters on the show, and every single
person was white. There was something like thirty that had
been either on or guest presented, printed out the document,
(26:32):
sent an email to a friend at Channel nine and said, Hey,
I would love a meeting with John Walsh, who's the
executive producer of get Away. He also does the voice
in the.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Book Get You From Being Fourteen writing a letter say
I want to get into this school, but now Channel
you need to talk to me about this show.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
And so I literally went and had a meeting with
the EP and I said, Hey, this is a show
talking about country and talk in taking people on experiences.
Yet you've never had a First Nation's lens to this
show a presenter, or you've never highlighted First Nations tour
in this country, So can you give me a shot?
(27:07):
And he was like, Oh, it's not something we normally
like focus on. It's more like international stuff. And he said,
but if you want, go and shoot something out of
your own pocket and send it in as a mock
segment and I'll see if you're good enough. So I,
when I hired a camera man the next day, wrote
a segment when it did a First Nations walking tour
down at Circular Key any Margaret Yep and I cut
(27:30):
it within a day. I had it back to him
in two days you know, I was like, this four
minute segment. It looked like as good as a getaway segment.
You know, we did a really good job. And I
sent it in and he was shocked. He said, oh,
I didn't think that you would go to this effort.
He thought, I'll shoot it on an iPhone, send something in,
you know, a piece to camera and low expectations, low expectations,
(27:51):
and he said, okay, we'll give you a shot. And
so from that moment, he you know, opened up the
doors to the production team and the connections within the network,
and I was able to do you know, many shoots
on Getaway, but most peop will think that, you know,
they called me and it was, oh, you're you're a
great presenter. Let's let's get you on the network. And
it's like, that's not how it happened. I actually had
(28:11):
to go in do something that no one else has
ever had to do by proving yourself and shooting your
own mock episode. No white presenter has ever walked in
there and gone, hey, I'll go and shoot something, send
it in.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And of course very different, veryterior expectations.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
So you know, that's how that came about. But I've
never been afraid to be the first, and I will
keep on doing that. Like, whenever I think of an idea,
I feel like it's for me. If I'm constantly thinking
of something, that means it's supposed to be you know,
I was supposed to activate that thought. So I continue
to do that. And that's sort of why I pushed
(28:48):
the boundaries of the industry when when you know, I'm
doing my job because I'm like, even Nova now is
the first radio station to have a rap you know
that was that came from.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Working with yous to be better.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah, I was going to say, the pressure from being
in the media and the life that you're living and
being in the public eye.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Do you ever kind of experience.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Days where you're not feeling good like is because you
don't obviously we don't always put those moments online, but
they're put to see you get a highlight reel. Yeah,
So how do you manage the spotlight and being in
the public eye and then at the same time trying
to be true to yourself to look after yourself and
your own mental health because we don't see what you
(29:36):
know behind closed doors. So you obviously do have days
where you're not feeling like you want to do this
presenting job or get on and do a podcast.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I've struggled with my mental health over the years. That's
something that I've become more transparent about. It's a it's
been a journey for me because I remember in my
early twenties, I kept on thinking to myself, why don't
everyone's talking about mental health. I don't feel like I
have any mental health problems or issues. I'm not struggling
that in that part of myself. But the reality is
(30:07):
is that I was just pushing everything down. I was
numbing myself with external things, and I wasn't facing the
things that actually needed to be faced.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
You know, it wasn't dealing with anything.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
I wasn't dealing with anything. I didn't want to speak
about my upbringing. I didn't want to talk about my
life that you know, my early life. There was always
these things that were just like push it to the
back and move on. And I was really good at that.
But you know, in when I became to my mid twenties,
I started to go to therapy and I started to
really unpack some of my life experiences, especially those early days,
(30:42):
and it was like a waterfall, you know, it's a
scary thing once you start opening up, but it is
now it comes out. It does, it comes out, and
you start to realize that, you know, there's so many
things that you've done in your life, or there's so
many decisions you've made based on your experiences, and our
whole life is just you know, a number of experiences
that we've lived and that's what we all or life right.
(31:04):
And it's like once I started unpacking that early childhood
staff and I've been to you know, therapy, but I
also do physical fitness, which really helps me. I started
to really understand myself more too. And it's taken five
years of hard work and.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Doing the work as well.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
At the same time, you've been lending your voice to
very important mental health conversations. Yeah, which I kind of
think to myself, you know, like we've put a lot
of pressure on ourselves as well. But hearing your story
now I know why you are an advocate to kind
of shine a light on mental health and well being.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
And I think in life there are some moments that
you know they blindside you. You know, you think you're strong.
I remember thinking so in twenty twenty two, I was
at a point where I felt quite strong within my
mental health, and and that year my brother was murdered
at the age of thirty two, so he was, you know,
his life was taken so young. And that was a
(32:08):
moment that blindsided me and crumbled all the work that
I felt like I had done, and I felt like
I was at ground zero again, because how can a
moment like that, a traumatic moment not affect.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
You, you know what, It affects you to your core.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
So that from twenty twenty two until now, I've had
to put in a lot of work through therapy but
also just really trying to understand myself and know what
are the external factors that really can affect my mental health.
You know, I've in my twenties, you know, I dabbled
(32:40):
a lot with you know, drugs and alcohol and.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Party, the party of life.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
But I have to be really careful with that because
look at my lineage, look at my family history, and
on both sides, it's not just my dad and the
stereotypes of black fellows being alcoholics, but my mom's family.
My mom my dad both struggled with alcohol issues, drug issues.
So it's like I need to really focus on not
(33:06):
allowing those things into my life often or if at all,
because they can really crumble my mental health, And so
I try.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
You think you're on top of it, that's right. Are
you're going really good?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, then bang bangs in an instant things can quickly
go backwards, that's right.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
So yeah, I find my mental health is a focus
at the moment, and it's something that I need to
really hone in on. It can't just be this airy
fairy thing that is an idea, but it's actually your
mental health is your computer, it is how you operate,
it is what is it's your brain. You know, if
you're feeling good, you're going to be you know, living
(33:47):
a much happier life. So yeah, it is something that
I've been more focused on. I would say over the
last three years, what.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Would you say to your fourteen year old self that
was struggling for these younger mob now listening to this
to take some you know, not words of wisdom, but
just even words of inspiration or encouragement, What would you
say to your fourteen year old self?
Speaker 4 (34:09):
What you want isn't as far as you think. There
are moments in life where you think they are so
far away. There are things that you want in life
that just seem impossible, not in arms reach. Yet if
you just chip away a little by little, you will
get there. And I'm a testament to that. Like the
life that I leave now is really a dream life.
(34:31):
I get to do exactly what I wanted, and I
had those dreams at fourteen, younger than that. So everything
we want in life is possible. It's not impossible. It's
not as far as you think. You just have to
make the choices to step in the right direction every day,
and sometimes you're off track and sometimes you have to
get back on track, and that's fine. But yeah, I
(34:52):
want to write a kid's book about choice.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I love that, you know.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
That's Yeah, so there's there's a kid's book and it's
sort of a pick your own adventure. Yeah, so you
know do you get to make different decisions on each
age which leads you to a consequence, and at the
end of the book you end up at a place
And it's about the fact that I've realized that I've
made a lot of choices in my life to get
to this point, and sometimes they weren't great choices, but
(35:17):
I'm at this point and if I made different choices,
where would I be and it's about like really just
being the driver of your own life and realizing that
you are the person who gets to decide where you
end up.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
That's exactly it.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah, and thank you for trusting me, of course, to
share your story with and to my listeners and to
people now that also are connected with another community that
I'm part of, which has got You for Life. Yes,
thank you for lending your voice to our foundation. And
I really do hope that we get to work together
(35:53):
in the future.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Would love to support each other.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
You're such an incredible person and you're doing amazing things
for our community. So I want to give you your
flowers because your making waves in this industry like no
one else and I look up to you and I
think that's such a beautiful thing that you're doing. And
also giving our community a voice, you know, at the
back of a referendum that said no, yet you've been
(36:16):
able to platform so many of our voices.
Speaker 5 (36:18):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
But one day we'll catch up. Would love and have
a yarn. But thank you for being part of this
partnership series. And I do want to really say thank
you to Gotcha for Life, because if it wasn't for
this opportunity, I don't know when I would have been
able to have this yat with you. So thank you
for making time out of your busy schedule to come
here and share your life with now the rest of
(36:42):
the world if they didn't know, now you know who
this brother is. So look on that note like, I
just can't wait to see what else you do.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
You're only thirty.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
I probably will be in Spain with you one day
and we'll probably go on party and your concerts so
with next tour yes next.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
To her, but yeah, thanks for coming in to the
studio and enjoy your time here on Beautiful Jager Terrible Lands.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
You look at the day, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I know he's not here to see this, and I
know all you MOB.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Every single episode has been a different person, a different story,
different lessons that you might be able to learn from
and just to be inspired by. Every time I have
people in the studio and hearing their stories. As hard
as it is sometimes to hear people's stories and experiences,
(37:35):
there is just so much that we relate to and
with and connect on. So I know all you MOB,
some of you may be feeling a little bit triggered
by this conversation, don't forget one three Yarn twenty four hours,
seven days a week. We'll make sure that we've got
some links in the show. Note If you are feeling
triggered or a little bit overwhelmed from this conversation with
(37:58):
beautiful Madie, so on that note, I hope you've enjoyed
this amazing episode.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Until next time, poker.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Now, thanks for tuning in to mental fitness conversations. Keep
building your emotional muscles with the free Mental Fitness Gym
app packed with tools, tips, and everyday actions to support
your mental fitness. Download it from the App Store or
Google play Store, or visit the Mentalfitnessgym dot org. If
anything in this episode brought something up for you, you
(38:26):
don't have to worry alone. Reach out to a trusted
friend or family member and know that support is available.
You can contact Lifeline on one three double one one
four or one three yarn at one three nine, two
seven six for free and confidential support for Aboriginal and
torrostraight Islander people. If you enjoyed this episode, leave us
(38:47):
a rating, share it with someone in your village, or
drop us a message. We'd love to hear what you
think and don't forget to follow Black Magic Woman and
Gotcha for Life on all socials to keep the conversation
going
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