October 7, 2024 • 25 mins
Welcome to part 2 of my yarn with Commissioner Sue-Anne Hunter. This yarn delves into the challenges of holding the government accountable for policies affecting First Nations peoples, with a particular focus on Victoria’s truth commission. The commission is examining systemic injustices from 1788 to the present and has outlined plans for future hearings over the next ten months, which will address critical issues such as child protection and criminal justice.
Links & Resources:
- Victorian Aboriginal Childcare Agency (VACCA) - https://www.vacca.org/
- Yoorrook Justice Commission - https://yoorrookjusticecommission.org.au/
- First People’s Assembly of Victoria - https://www.firstpeoplesvic.org/
Website: www.blackmagicwoman.com.au
Follow us on Instagram - @blackmagicwomanpodcast
The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Black cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges
the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this
episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land
where you, the listener or viewer, are tuning in from.
We would like to pay our respects to our elders
past and present and acknowledged that this always was Aboriginal
(00:25):
land and always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to the
Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mondonara Bales.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
On this week's episode of The Black Magic Woman Podcast,
we pick up from last week's episode where Mandanara and
Commissioner Suwan Hunter are discussing the challenges of holding the
government accountable for its policies and frameworks and the lack
of assessment on various initiatives aimed at improving the lives
of First Nations peoples.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So, in the State of Victoria, is it five years
this Truth Commission? Where are we at with this commission?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
In the it was original three.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
It's just one of the biggest By the way, it's
one of the biggest mandates ever for any truth commission.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
What do you mean by one of the biggest mandates?
Speaker 4 (01:13):
So we get this is what we have to investigate
systemic justice against first people from seventeen eighty eight to current.
We had three years to do that. We've got an
extra year and we've got probably about.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Ten months left.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, so this next ten months, what's on the cards.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So we've done a heap of hearings.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
We just finished Landing Justice and we just finished health, housing,
education and socioeconomic sort of life. We've still got accountability
hearings when we call them back, particularly chop protection criminal justice,
because they did that ages ago, so we want to
know they promised this a few things.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Let's see if they, oh, they come back, we're asking
them back. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
We've also got one day of descendants hearings, so there's
three descendants of colonizers that really want to come forward
and tell them.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So these are a wide Australian fan Was it a
been here since the first fleet?
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Well, we had Susannah Henty. So if you look down
on going to Jamara country down in Portland, it's named
the birthplace of Victoria and that's all hinty sort of
country down there. So we had Susanna Henty come on, it's.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
A I think I saw this one.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, So she come and spoke about her descendants.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Early sixties older lady.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
No, no, young lady.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
So she spoke about the descendants of her people of
the Hinties. We've got a few others that we're working
with at the moment that want to come forward and
tell what wrongs their descendants did.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So when this commission, you've got Aboriginal people that are sharing.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
So we've got the evidence and it is evidence right
and usually look, you know, you're not the British for
good at recording stuff, so you.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Can actually match stuff up.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Right, They've got we've you've got all this stuff that
they've they've done and they've it's all there. And then
you've got first people's coming forward to tell this and
it matches right. But then we're holding the state to account.
So this is the first time the governments had to
answer to first people's. So we've had the Premier of
(03:18):
the state on the stand, the Minister for Child Protection,
the Minister for Corrections Jacqueline Simes, the Attorney, the Treasurer like,
we've had them all come to the stand. I do
encourage people to get on your rook's website because it's
all there. But this is the first time they've had
to answer to us and tell us that they all
(03:43):
come with apologies, right, and the best saying we've got
there is apology is a grade. But we need to
see action and so they've all come, I will say
the police, the commissioner for the Police, Shane Patton, gave
an apology. He followed it up with a statement of
seventy two things that they're going to do within the police.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Force in Victoria.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
But he also they also held a day and apology
Eyes to the Stolen Gens quite quickly too, and that
was amazed, Like you could hear a pin drop in
that room.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So we went to that.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I think people, we're just asking people to listen. You know,
we're not on the public record because history is told
by the colonizer, So how do we and if we
don't want to take things away, because then that takes
away from history, right, because this is the way the colonize.
How do we add first people's voices to that, and
how do we get a shared understanding of the state,
(04:36):
and then how do.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
We move forward because it's not working.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
It's ugly, it's scary, the rates being a mom, it's scary,
the rates of child protection, desting, custody, you name it.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
We've got the highest rates.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
So how does this Commission and First People's Assembly push
that forward to get change that we've been waiting for
and saying this, I feel like I bang I head
against the brick wall every day because I've been saying
the same thing since my days of working in chop diction.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I was going to say, my mom was removed, her
mum was removed, her mother, her mother. So I got
five generations on my mother's side that was stolen, children institutionalized,
made ward of the States, and out to work. So
people don't realize that trauma's in the memory of our
DNA exactly. And I heard that it takes seven generations
(05:30):
to heal from trauma. Now I'm the first generation with
my eight sisters that had the privilege to go up
with my aberginal mother, my abriishinal father. First generation. And
I think that's what needs to be understood, that we're
talking about what happened within people's living memory. Oh totally,
and we're talking about recent history.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Yeah, it's not that I talk to people and I say,
my name was the last woman born on Qorandick Mission.
So it's not like the missions. Aren't that like, it's
not you know, I grew up with my name. I
know my name, you know, I knew except who she was.
These stories, well, I don't even like calling them stories
because it takes away from the truth, the truth of
(06:12):
people's lives that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Were controlled, every aspect, controlled by the state.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
And surveiled like the constant surveillance and still happens, right,
it just looks different, It looks completely different. These systems
are deeply rooted in colonization, and they were set up
to either kill us or take us away from our families,
(06:39):
remove us from society, whatever it is they are still current.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
To stabilize us, to civilize well, not even that it
was to get rid of us, because what did they
come for? The land?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
And who was in the way, and where does the
power stay and where do you get your money from?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's all in the land.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
What we need to do today is we.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Can't get it all back, and we can't you know,
undo history. But what we can do is reconcile with history.
Not talking about reconciliation to stay in, but reconcile with
what's happened, and how do we move forward? And make
this better because I don't want my daughter or my
grandkids or you know, you don't want your It needs
(07:20):
to be different because it's bloody hard. It is so hard,
and we're all tired. And I don't want the next
generation to be as tired as we are because all
you do is fight.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And there's not enough of us anyways. There's three percent
of us and if you think about it.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
And in Victoria we're under one percent, right, yeah, So
we're fighting for changes and you know.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
The retric's still there.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
You tell people, I don't want your backyard, that's not
what we're coming for.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Oh you want money. It's not all about money.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Sometimes it's about dignity and pride and holding your head
high and which we do so well.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
But to be able to have the same opportunity.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
As if you're the same privileges, that's exactly why. And
this land of opportunities, the lucky country. We're not asking
for more than the average Australian. No we're not.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
No, we're not.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
And I think the thing is if you look at
so we've got to create a lasting public record, and
what we want to do is join those dots about
how we got to where we are so we can
unpack it for people about how the entrenched poverty and
the dispossession has continued looks differently, but why we need
(08:40):
to do certain things differently.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
For mob You're gonna have a lot of non Aboriginal
people listening to this podcast saying, but don't youse get
all this extra money? I wish there's thirty billion dollars
that's spent or wasted across indigenous affairs. Where's that thirty
billion dollars? A lot of people and it was used
as propaganda during the referendum, but the Productivity Commission clearly
(09:04):
states and there's an evaluation of government expenditure. So go
to the Productivity Commission and read the reports, especially the
Indigenouses Disadvantage report. But I read from the Productivity Commission
in twenty eighteen, So when I first heard about this
thirty billion dollars six years ago, by the way, before
the referendum, and it literally published the data said that
(09:27):
out of thirty billion dollars, only five point nine billion
reaches the ground. If that if that so, twenty four
billion dollars does not get to community or the five
thousand plus Aboriginal community controlled or whatever organizations that get
government funding, whether it's from local, state of federal funding.
(09:48):
So people don't realize that our old Minister for Indigenous Affairs,
Nigel Scullion, awarded a grant to the Darwin Fisheries Association
to his mates in the Northern Territory. It was about
one hundred and sixty thousan and dollars Google it if
you don't believe me, and that was to pay for
lawyers to fight the traditional owners over fishing rights. That
(10:11):
was used out of the indigenous budget. So yeah, people
don't And these are examples I need to use in
training when saying, but who who's holding our Indigenous Affairs
minister accountable when he grants his mates money out of
our budget to fight traditional owners and called over native
(10:34):
tartar rights or fishing rights.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So we just did the landing justice and we broke
it down. And I don't have we don't have the
figures on me about how much from gold you know
how much we're pulling out of the ground just in
the States, trillions of dollars, How much of that went
to first people's zero? Absolutely nothing right even water, Like
we don't get absolutely anything from our land that is
(11:00):
constantly being decimated, and that our traditional lands. And we're
not asking for a lot, but when you're pulling out trillions,
you know, can you give us a bit of land
to practice culture? Like, we're not asking for millions and
millions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
But what does it look like? What does it look like?
And what should we have?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
And people are just you're right, People say, don't you
get enough?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Don't you?
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Well, actually, I don't know about you, but I don't
see any of it.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I don't see any of it either.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
And I don't know where it goes. And I look
at places like because I think a lot of.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Our I've gotten told where it goes, it's caught up
in administration.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Well it is.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And who's actually benefiting from our disadvantage because it's called
the Indigenous Disadvantage Report? Who's benefiting from our disadvantage? If
it's caught up in administration, it's obviously non Aboriginal people, yeap.
And people are not probably going to like what I'm
about to say, But it's actually paying off a lot
of non Averiginal people's mortgages. That's where the money is going.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Well, it's going to it's going to jobs that are
supposed to be evaluating something when you don't really you know.
I mean, I look at so some of the orgs
that have come forward have so much administration because they're
getting so many different because they have to just take
money where they can, and then they've got a report
(12:27):
on it and they're like, that's one full time job there,
but we don't get paid for that because we have to.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I think every cent has to be accounted for.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
When you look at Blackfellows, black fellows got to jump
through a lot more hoops. Yeah, a lot more hoops. Yep.
They're non average people. And if we don't meet our
targets or we.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Can't exceed, but we exceed our targets because.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
There's so much organizations or NGOs don't exceed their targets,
they don't get no, there's no consequences.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
And we've gone through a lot of that through the hearings.
They're worth listening to.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
This is exactly what I was hoping would come out
of this yarn, is that this is not just about
stolen generations now stealing kids.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
It's about accountability. It's about where the dollars go. It's
about what are you doing or what have you said
you're going to do that you haven't done. It's about
self determination, It's about why can't you hand over the
power like you say you're going. That's why the accountability
hearings are so important because of what they've said they
(13:29):
were going to do, you know, sitting with women in
prison and listening to their stories and you can't even
make a phone call because it costs too much money.
And we've been able to have got some really great
media out of I think the title of the was
it costs more to call the Pope than it does
to make a mobile call out of a prison, and
(13:52):
all they want to.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Do is be connected.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
And I just think therapeutically, if they're speaking to their families,
people are going to be better or feel better. And
you know this all this stuff that we can't even
give those women in prison proper medical.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Right. So this commissions a voice for the voiceless.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
I would say it's a voice for for everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
But these women in prison, I don't think they ever
would have thought that people like you would be in
there listening to their stories. They're usually forgotten.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
And we did go to the men, but we did
go to the men sorry, but I just the women.
Really there's some stories from there where I was just
like what you know, and there.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Was how could this be happening? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, and
how are we going to change?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Things like not even knowing where your kids are, right,
you just don't know because no one will tell you. Yeah,
and the fact that you can't get to them, like
how just and as the muments think, I couldn't imagine.
I just like I seriously could not imagine. And it
was only a couple of months ago where I got
(15:03):
a or from somebody that was in the labor suite
and the department were outside in the waiting room.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah. And I've been in that situation and we still
talk about it every day as black fellows yeap that
we live with the fear that tomorrow our kids can
be taken any at any time. And people look at
me like, what do you mean? How could that be?
So my nan used to say, don't ever tick the box,
(15:31):
don't fill out forms because you don't have to take
your kids.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
I worked in child protection or aside not work at PACKHA,
and I went.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
To I just had this.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
We don't have removal, right, but this overwhelming. They could
take my baby. Yeah, and I had to leave without
her because she was prim right. And so then I
was in there every day five point thirty. I made
myself sick being in there, from the moment I woke
up to the moment I needed to sleep. And I
was just in there that whole time. And I remember saying,
(16:10):
I remember saying to my I've rode an OpEd on it. Actually,
I said to my mum, did you and dad ever
have a conversation about us kids? She said, yes, imagine
you have to have that conversation, Like I was just
it just made you know, when you have your own
it makes you look at things, and she said yeah,
And I was just like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Or even registering a birth certificate.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Well, I got told, are you sure you're Aboriginal? After
I gave birth to my to This is fourteen years
and thirteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
You sure? Are you sure? My box? I'm sorry, Yeah,
come to the mesh, you meet my mom.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
But it's even, you know what, it's even.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
It's even when you like, you know, you go for
a rental or you've got you put down where you work.
And I've worked at abridginal organizations, right, you don't want
to put it down because you know, you get, well,
what do you work there?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Not only that, but you probably know you're not going
to get the ham Yeah, right, which is the.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
If you're applying for something, I know, credit or whatever
it may be.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, you know, and I've done that.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, there's still this kind of you're navigating society, but
you're very careful what you're writing, who you're giving information to.
We're always thinking, which is something that a lot of
non abitional people don't.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Well, I get oh it's not a real well, it's
not a real commission.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
It's just like a line of inquired night to walk.
You're a commissioner. You're an aboriginal woman on it. Yeah,
yeah I am. Yeah, people cannot people can't.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
You can't process.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Because we're not supposed to have any power.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
No, you just don't look like a commissioner.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well I don't even look aboriginal. Let me tell you,
I've cop a lot of that on social.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Media, especially. Yes, you're in Melbourne. A lot of Greeks
and Italians here, Yeah, probably think that you're one of them.
How deadly is it that finally we got to have
this year? I know, I know without crying, which is
I know we got through? If I know, I was like,
hold back now, don't talk about our kids. If there
was anything, especially for just a lot of I know
(18:14):
a lot of mob listened to this podcast. But I'm
always pushing my podcasts more and more as a resource,
like what to do, where to go, what to listen to?
You know what's out there. And I'm saying to people
now more and more, have you listened to this episode
of my podcast, Like, go and listen to this. There's
Uncle Laura Maguire in nong our Country, amazing episode, Stan Grant, Annie,
(18:39):
Leah Pressell, Anita. Heis like, there's some amazing and there's more.
Belinda Doate, Greg, Oh my god, she's my girl. I
could keep on going and everyone's gonna say what about me?
Like Lee Ray and Scherie and Will all these people
have had on this podcast over the last four years.
I've got this wealth of knowledge. It's like this library
(19:00):
now for anybody that's either on their journey finding who
they are as Black fellows and needing to understand you know,
all of us as Black fellows and how different we
are and the different paths we've taken and different jobs
that we do different roles and we play in our
family community. So there's this wealth of knowledge now within
(19:21):
the Black Magical podcast and I absolutely love it. That's
why I don't want to stop doing this podcast. But
for people now to hear firsthand from a commissioner at
the europe Justice Commission, what do you want people to
kind of? What do you want to leave people with
that are listening to this yarn?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
So I think this is what I reflect on all
the time. So we have a warorung work, which is
my language and it's a woman checker. But it doesn't
mean welcome and everybody thinks it means welcome. It means
to come with purpose?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Is that not the best? And that's what I think
you need?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
What is you like?
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Find your purpose?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
What is it?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
And where do you need to go to get that?
Because that's he going to be fulfilled. I get fulfilled
by just helping others get to where they've got to
go and holding space for people and just you know,
you don't you don't work with mob for fame, for money,
(20:26):
for media, for podcast like, you don't do that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You do that the hope, in the hope that one.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Thing you do helps someone Yeah, and I just you know,
that's that's my sort of I think it's the most
amazing word. And if you get up every day with
purpose and it doesn't matter what you do, and you know,
I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for
the little quiet achievers that helped me get to where
(20:54):
I am. And sometimes i'm their voice as well. So
find and be you be, you find your purpose and
you'll be deadly.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Well that's for everyone listening to the podcast. You know
what I took out of the yarns so much, but
just to listen. That's all you need to do is
to listen.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I think for non mob it's not it's like really
take it on, like really take on what people are saying,
and don't sit there and say what can I do?
Just reflect on what you've heard and you'll find a way.
Like in this, it's it's tricky, right. We're traumatized people.
(21:34):
We struggle and we have our bad days and sometimes
you may step on our toes, but it doesn't mean
you stop, like be a really good ally and don't
try and do it for us, just walk with us.
But you know, I've never listened so deeply and I
really understand, you know how any duty judy I can
talk about.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Listening, watch it on YouTube on a juty app consent
can't be on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I think if you really you just I don't know.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
I think it's a big older too, or is it
just as black fellows, we reflect a lot and just.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Learns a It's a skill to be able to sit
in silence. We don't need people can't do it.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, I know, we don't need to be here like
talking like sometimes and I've realized sometimes that's all people
need is someone to hear and to listen. And you know,
I can listen with purpose because truth is going to
seek justice right.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Ah. The last words killed me.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
The South African people they got truth and reconciliation, they
didn't get any justice. And my aunest said, we've got
to learn from them fellows over there. And I honestly
believe justice. I always say that if we get truth
and justice right, then reconciliation will sort itself out.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And we need reconciliation.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
I think if you you can't have treaty without truth, right,
and you can't have justice with that truth. So we've
got it all happening here. I don't know if it's
reconciliation anymore. I think it's I don't know what the
word is. Yeah, but I think it's actually more than that,
and it's bigger than that. And I'm hoping people come
(23:22):
on the journey, particularly here in Victoria. And look, we
know we've got everyone nationally and internationally watching, and I
hope we make the impact and get the results we
really want.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I reckon we will. How can we not, especially when
we've got one good example that's up and running and
there's a model for other states and territories to follow.
Truth Telling is definitely on my agenda. I kind of
don't want to waste any more time working with organizations
unless they're committed to truth telling. I'm going to see
(23:54):
if I can get you in, even if I have
to zoom you in the room, to maybe a few
truth telling workshops at the Black Card and we can
hear first hand on what you are doing, and then
they can ask you questions a set of people like
me that are watching from the outside, yeah, looking in.
But on that note, thank you for giving up your
evening to be here. Very welcome and I can't wait
(24:15):
to like, I want to do the work. With you
on the side, I'll be on the sideline. We got this,
we got it, we got it. So I love you,
my assistant, thank you, thank you, Commissioner Hunter, thank you,
buys stuff, thank you, and for everyone that's listening. I
really do hope that you've enjoyed this episode. Until next time,
bye for now. If you'd like any more on today's guest,
(24:40):
please visit our show notes in the episode description. A
big shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies
who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast. Your
feedback means the world. You can rate and review the
podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to our
socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line. We'd
(25:01):
love to hear from you. The Black Magic and podcast
is produced by Clint Curtis
Speaker 2 (25:14):
M
Black cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges
the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this
episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land
where you, the listener or viewer, are tuning in from.
We would like to pay our respects to our elders
past and present and acknowledged that this always was Aboriginal
(00:25):
land and always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to the
Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mondonara Bales.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
On this week's episode of The Black Magic Woman Podcast,
we pick up from last week's episode where Mandanara and
Commissioner Suwan Hunter are discussing the challenges of holding the
government accountable for its policies and frameworks and the lack
of assessment on various initiatives aimed at improving the lives
of First Nations peoples.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So, in the State of Victoria, is it five years
this Truth Commission? Where are we at with this commission?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
In the it was original three.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
It's just one of the biggest By the way, it's
one of the biggest mandates ever for any truth commission.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
What do you mean by one of the biggest mandates?
Speaker 4 (01:13):
So we get this is what we have to investigate
systemic justice against first people from seventeen eighty eight to current.
We had three years to do that. We've got an
extra year and we've got probably about.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Ten months left.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, so this next ten months, what's on the cards.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So we've done a heap of hearings.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
We just finished Landing Justice and we just finished health, housing,
education and socioeconomic sort of life. We've still got accountability
hearings when we call them back, particularly chop protection criminal justice,
because they did that ages ago, so we want to
know they promised this a few things.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Let's see if they, oh, they come back, we're asking
them back. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
We've also got one day of descendants hearings, so there's
three descendants of colonizers that really want to come forward
and tell them.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So these are a wide Australian fan Was it a
been here since the first fleet?
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Well, we had Susannah Henty. So if you look down
on going to Jamara country down in Portland, it's named
the birthplace of Victoria and that's all hinty sort of
country down there. So we had Susanna Henty come on, it's.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
A I think I saw this one.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, So she come and spoke about her descendants.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Early sixties older lady.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
No, no, young lady.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
So she spoke about the descendants of her people of
the Hinties. We've got a few others that we're working
with at the moment that want to come forward and
tell what wrongs their descendants did.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So when this commission, you've got Aboriginal people that are sharing.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
So we've got the evidence and it is evidence right
and usually look, you know, you're not the British for
good at recording stuff, so you.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Can actually match stuff up.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Right, They've got we've you've got all this stuff that
they've they've done and they've it's all there. And then
you've got first people's coming forward to tell this and
it matches right. But then we're holding the state to account.
So this is the first time the governments had to
answer to first people's. So we've had the Premier of
(03:18):
the state on the stand, the Minister for Child Protection,
the Minister for Corrections Jacqueline Simes, the Attorney, the Treasurer like,
we've had them all come to the stand. I do
encourage people to get on your rook's website because it's
all there. But this is the first time they've had
to answer to us and tell us that they all
(03:43):
come with apologies, right, and the best saying we've got
there is apology is a grade. But we need to
see action and so they've all come, I will say
the police, the commissioner for the Police, Shane Patton, gave
an apology. He followed it up with a statement of
seventy two things that they're going to do within the police.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Force in Victoria.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
But he also they also held a day and apology
Eyes to the Stolen Gens quite quickly too, and that
was amazed, Like you could hear a pin drop in
that room.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
So we went to that.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I think people, we're just asking people to listen. You know,
we're not on the public record because history is told
by the colonizer, So how do we and if we
don't want to take things away, because then that takes
away from history, right, because this is the way the colonize.
How do we add first people's voices to that, and
how do we get a shared understanding of the state,
(04:36):
and then how do.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
We move forward because it's not working.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
It's ugly, it's scary, the rates being a mom, it's scary,
the rates of child protection, desting, custody, you name it.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
We've got the highest rates.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
So how does this Commission and First People's Assembly push
that forward to get change that we've been waiting for
and saying this, I feel like I bang I head
against the brick wall every day because I've been saying
the same thing since my days of working in chop diction.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I was going to say, my mom was removed, her
mum was removed, her mother, her mother. So I got
five generations on my mother's side that was stolen, children institutionalized,
made ward of the States, and out to work. So
people don't realize that trauma's in the memory of our
DNA exactly. And I heard that it takes seven generations
(05:30):
to heal from trauma. Now I'm the first generation with
my eight sisters that had the privilege to go up
with my aberginal mother, my abriishinal father. First generation. And
I think that's what needs to be understood, that we're
talking about what happened within people's living memory. Oh totally,
and we're talking about recent history.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Yeah, it's not that I talk to people and I say,
my name was the last woman born on Qorandick Mission.
So it's not like the missions. Aren't that like, it's
not you know, I grew up with my name. I
know my name, you know, I knew except who she was.
These stories, well, I don't even like calling them stories
because it takes away from the truth, the truth of
(06:12):
people's lives that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Were controlled, every aspect, controlled by the state.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
And surveiled like the constant surveillance and still happens, right,
it just looks different, It looks completely different. These systems
are deeply rooted in colonization, and they were set up
to either kill us or take us away from our families,
(06:39):
remove us from society, whatever it is they are still current.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
To stabilize us, to civilize well, not even that it
was to get rid of us, because what did they
come for? The land?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
And who was in the way, and where does the
power stay and where do you get your money from?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's all in the land.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
What we need to do today is we.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Can't get it all back, and we can't you know,
undo history. But what we can do is reconcile with history.
Not talking about reconciliation to stay in, but reconcile with
what's happened, and how do we move forward? And make
this better because I don't want my daughter or my
grandkids or you know, you don't want your It needs
(07:20):
to be different because it's bloody hard. It is so hard,
and we're all tired. And I don't want the next
generation to be as tired as we are because all
you do is fight.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And there's not enough of us anyways. There's three percent
of us and if you think about it.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
And in Victoria we're under one percent, right, yeah, So
we're fighting for changes and you know.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
The retric's still there.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
You tell people, I don't want your backyard, that's not
what we're coming for.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Oh you want money. It's not all about money.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Sometimes it's about dignity and pride and holding your head
high and which we do so well.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
But to be able to have the same opportunity.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
As if you're the same privileges, that's exactly why. And
this land of opportunities, the lucky country. We're not asking
for more than the average Australian. No we're not.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
No, we're not.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
And I think the thing is if you look at
so we've got to create a lasting public record, and
what we want to do is join those dots about
how we got to where we are so we can
unpack it for people about how the entrenched poverty and
the dispossession has continued looks differently, but why we need
(08:40):
to do certain things differently.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
For mob You're gonna have a lot of non Aboriginal
people listening to this podcast saying, but don't youse get
all this extra money? I wish there's thirty billion dollars
that's spent or wasted across indigenous affairs. Where's that thirty
billion dollars? A lot of people and it was used
as propaganda during the referendum, but the Productivity Commission clearly
(09:04):
states and there's an evaluation of government expenditure. So go
to the Productivity Commission and read the reports, especially the
Indigenouses Disadvantage report. But I read from the Productivity Commission
in twenty eighteen, So when I first heard about this
thirty billion dollars six years ago, by the way, before
the referendum, and it literally published the data said that
(09:27):
out of thirty billion dollars, only five point nine billion
reaches the ground. If that if that so, twenty four
billion dollars does not get to community or the five
thousand plus Aboriginal community controlled or whatever organizations that get
government funding, whether it's from local, state of federal funding.
(09:48):
So people don't realize that our old Minister for Indigenous Affairs,
Nigel Scullion, awarded a grant to the Darwin Fisheries Association
to his mates in the Northern Territory. It was about
one hundred and sixty thousan and dollars Google it if
you don't believe me, and that was to pay for
lawyers to fight the traditional owners over fishing rights. That
(10:11):
was used out of the indigenous budget. So yeah, people
don't And these are examples I need to use in
training when saying, but who who's holding our Indigenous Affairs
minister accountable when he grants his mates money out of
our budget to fight traditional owners and called over native
(10:34):
tartar rights or fishing rights.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So we just did the landing justice and we broke
it down. And I don't have we don't have the
figures on me about how much from gold you know
how much we're pulling out of the ground just in
the States, trillions of dollars, How much of that went
to first people's zero? Absolutely nothing right even water, Like
we don't get absolutely anything from our land that is
(11:00):
constantly being decimated, and that our traditional lands. And we're
not asking for a lot, but when you're pulling out trillions,
you know, can you give us a bit of land
to practice culture? Like, we're not asking for millions and
millions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
But what does it look like? What does it look like?
And what should we have?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
And people are just you're right, People say, don't you
get enough?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Don't you?
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Well, actually, I don't know about you, but I don't
see any of it.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I don't see any of it either.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
And I don't know where it goes. And I look
at places like because I think a lot of.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Our I've gotten told where it goes, it's caught up
in administration.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Well it is.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And who's actually benefiting from our disadvantage because it's called
the Indigenous Disadvantage Report? Who's benefiting from our disadvantage? If
it's caught up in administration, it's obviously non Aboriginal people, yeap.
And people are not probably going to like what I'm
about to say, But it's actually paying off a lot
of non Averiginal people's mortgages. That's where the money is going.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Well, it's going to it's going to jobs that are
supposed to be evaluating something when you don't really you know.
I mean, I look at so some of the orgs
that have come forward have so much administration because they're
getting so many different because they have to just take
money where they can, and then they've got a report
(12:27):
on it and they're like, that's one full time job there,
but we don't get paid for that because we have to.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I think every cent has to be accounted for.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
When you look at Blackfellows, black fellows got to jump
through a lot more hoops. Yeah, a lot more hoops. Yep.
They're non average people. And if we don't meet our
targets or we.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Can't exceed, but we exceed our targets because.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
There's so much organizations or NGOs don't exceed their targets,
they don't get no, there's no consequences.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
And we've gone through a lot of that through the hearings.
They're worth listening to.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
This is exactly what I was hoping would come out
of this yarn, is that this is not just about
stolen generations now stealing kids.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
It's about accountability. It's about where the dollars go. It's
about what are you doing or what have you said
you're going to do that you haven't done. It's about
self determination, It's about why can't you hand over the
power like you say you're going. That's why the accountability
hearings are so important because of what they've said they
(13:29):
were going to do, you know, sitting with women in
prison and listening to their stories and you can't even
make a phone call because it costs too much money.
And we've been able to have got some really great
media out of I think the title of the was
it costs more to call the Pope than it does
to make a mobile call out of a prison, and
(13:52):
all they want to.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Do is be connected.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
And I just think therapeutically, if they're speaking to their families,
people are going to be better or feel better. And
you know this all this stuff that we can't even
give those women in prison proper medical.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Right. So this commissions a voice for the voiceless.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
I would say it's a voice for for everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
But these women in prison, I don't think they ever
would have thought that people like you would be in
there listening to their stories. They're usually forgotten.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
And we did go to the men, but we did
go to the men sorry, but I just the women.
Really there's some stories from there where I was just
like what you know, and there.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Was how could this be happening? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, and
how are we going to change?
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Things like not even knowing where your kids are, right,
you just don't know because no one will tell you. Yeah,
and the fact that you can't get to them, like
how just and as the muments think, I couldn't imagine.
I just like I seriously could not imagine. And it
was only a couple of months ago where I got
(15:03):
a or from somebody that was in the labor suite
and the department were outside in the waiting room.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah. And I've been in that situation and we still
talk about it every day as black fellows yeap that
we live with the fear that tomorrow our kids can
be taken any at any time. And people look at
me like, what do you mean? How could that be?
So my nan used to say, don't ever tick the box,
(15:31):
don't fill out forms because you don't have to take
your kids.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
I worked in child protection or aside not work at PACKHA,
and I went.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
To I just had this.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
We don't have removal, right, but this overwhelming. They could
take my baby. Yeah, and I had to leave without
her because she was prim right. And so then I
was in there every day five point thirty. I made
myself sick being in there, from the moment I woke
up to the moment I needed to sleep. And I
was just in there that whole time. And I remember saying,
(16:10):
I remember saying to my I've rode an OpEd on it. Actually,
I said to my mum, did you and dad ever
have a conversation about us kids? She said, yes, imagine
you have to have that conversation, Like I was just
it just made you know, when you have your own
it makes you look at things, and she said yeah,
And I was just like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Or even registering a birth certificate.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Well, I got told, are you sure you're Aboriginal? After
I gave birth to my to This is fourteen years
and thirteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
You sure? Are you sure? My box? I'm sorry, Yeah,
come to the mesh, you meet my mom.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
But it's even, you know what, it's even.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
It's even when you like, you know, you go for
a rental or you've got you put down where you work.
And I've worked at abridginal organizations, right, you don't want
to put it down because you know, you get, well,
what do you work there?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Not only that, but you probably know you're not going
to get the ham Yeah, right, which is the.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
If you're applying for something, I know, credit or whatever
it may be.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, you know, and I've done that.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, there's still this kind of you're navigating society, but
you're very careful what you're writing, who you're giving information to.
We're always thinking, which is something that a lot of
non abitional people don't.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Well, I get oh it's not a real well, it's
not a real commission.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
It's just like a line of inquired night to walk.
You're a commissioner. You're an aboriginal woman on it. Yeah,
yeah I am. Yeah, people cannot people can't.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
You can't process.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Because we're not supposed to have any power.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
No, you just don't look like a commissioner.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well I don't even look aboriginal. Let me tell you,
I've cop a lot of that on social.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Media, especially. Yes, you're in Melbourne. A lot of Greeks
and Italians here, Yeah, probably think that you're one of them.
How deadly is it that finally we got to have
this year? I know, I know without crying, which is
I know we got through? If I know, I was like,
hold back now, don't talk about our kids. If there
was anything, especially for just a lot of I know
(18:14):
a lot of mob listened to this podcast. But I'm
always pushing my podcasts more and more as a resource,
like what to do, where to go, what to listen to?
You know what's out there. And I'm saying to people
now more and more, have you listened to this episode
of my podcast, Like, go and listen to this. There's
Uncle Laura Maguire in nong our Country, amazing episode, Stan Grant, Annie,
(18:39):
Leah Pressell, Anita. Heis like, there's some amazing and there's more.
Belinda Doate, Greg, Oh my god, she's my girl. I
could keep on going and everyone's gonna say what about me?
Like Lee Ray and Scherie and Will all these people
have had on this podcast over the last four years.
I've got this wealth of knowledge. It's like this library
(19:00):
now for anybody that's either on their journey finding who
they are as Black fellows and needing to understand you know,
all of us as Black fellows and how different we
are and the different paths we've taken and different jobs
that we do different roles and we play in our
family community. So there's this wealth of knowledge now within
(19:21):
the Black Magical podcast and I absolutely love it. That's
why I don't want to stop doing this podcast. But
for people now to hear firsthand from a commissioner at
the europe Justice Commission, what do you want people to
kind of? What do you want to leave people with
that are listening to this yarn?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
So I think this is what I reflect on all
the time. So we have a warorung work, which is
my language and it's a woman checker. But it doesn't
mean welcome and everybody thinks it means welcome. It means
to come with purpose?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Is that not the best? And that's what I think
you need?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
What is you like?
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Find your purpose?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
What is it?
Speaker 4 (20:05):
And where do you need to go to get that?
Because that's he going to be fulfilled. I get fulfilled
by just helping others get to where they've got to
go and holding space for people and just you know,
you don't you don't work with mob for fame, for money,
(20:26):
for media, for podcast like, you don't do that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You do that the hope, in the hope that one.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Thing you do helps someone Yeah, and I just you know,
that's that's my sort of I think it's the most
amazing word. And if you get up every day with
purpose and it doesn't matter what you do, and you know,
I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for
the little quiet achievers that helped me get to where
(20:54):
I am. And sometimes i'm their voice as well. So
find and be you be, you find your purpose and
you'll be deadly.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Well that's for everyone listening to the podcast. You know
what I took out of the yarns so much, but
just to listen. That's all you need to do is
to listen.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I think for non mob it's not it's like really
take it on, like really take on what people are saying,
and don't sit there and say what can I do?
Just reflect on what you've heard and you'll find a way.
Like in this, it's it's tricky, right. We're traumatized people.
(21:34):
We struggle and we have our bad days and sometimes
you may step on our toes, but it doesn't mean
you stop, like be a really good ally and don't
try and do it for us, just walk with us.
But you know, I've never listened so deeply and I
really understand, you know how any duty judy I can
talk about.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Listening, watch it on YouTube on a juty app consent
can't be on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I think if you really you just I don't know.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
I think it's a big older too, or is it
just as black fellows, we reflect a lot and just.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Learns a It's a skill to be able to sit
in silence. We don't need people can't do it.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, I know, we don't need to be here like
talking like sometimes and I've realized sometimes that's all people
need is someone to hear and to listen. And you know,
I can listen with purpose because truth is going to
seek justice right.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Ah. The last words killed me.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
The South African people they got truth and reconciliation, they
didn't get any justice. And my aunest said, we've got
to learn from them fellows over there. And I honestly
believe justice. I always say that if we get truth
and justice right, then reconciliation will sort itself out.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And we need reconciliation.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
I think if you you can't have treaty without truth, right,
and you can't have justice with that truth. So we've
got it all happening here. I don't know if it's
reconciliation anymore. I think it's I don't know what the
word is. Yeah, but I think it's actually more than that,
and it's bigger than that. And I'm hoping people come
(23:22):
on the journey, particularly here in Victoria. And look, we
know we've got everyone nationally and internationally watching, and I
hope we make the impact and get the results we
really want.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I reckon we will. How can we not, especially when
we've got one good example that's up and running and
there's a model for other states and territories to follow.
Truth Telling is definitely on my agenda. I kind of
don't want to waste any more time working with organizations
unless they're committed to truth telling. I'm going to see
(23:54):
if I can get you in, even if I have
to zoom you in the room, to maybe a few
truth telling workshops at the Black Card and we can
hear first hand on what you are doing, and then
they can ask you questions a set of people like
me that are watching from the outside, yeah, looking in.
But on that note, thank you for giving up your
evening to be here. Very welcome and I can't wait
(24:15):
to like, I want to do the work. With you
on the side, I'll be on the sideline. We got this,
we got it, we got it. So I love you,
my assistant, thank you, thank you, Commissioner Hunter, thank you,
buys stuff, thank you, and for everyone that's listening. I
really do hope that you've enjoyed this episode. Until next time,
bye for now. If you'd like any more on today's guest,
(24:40):
please visit our show notes in the episode description. A
big shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies
who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast. Your
feedback means the world. You can rate and review the
podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to our
socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line. We'd
(25:01):
love to hear from you. The Black Magic and podcast
is produced by Clint Curtis
Speaker 2 (25:14):
M
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