September 16, 2025 • 21 mins
In this episode of the Black Magic Woman Podcast, I sit down with Uncle John Anderson, at the First Nations Clean Energy Network Summit on Kabi Kabi Country. Uncle John shares his journey from his saltwater connections on Palm Island and Innisfail to his work across western Queensland and Brisbane, leading independent and regulatory bodies with integrity and cultural strength.
Together, we yarn about the importance of cultural protocols, what it means to be an “honourable ancestor,” and how First Nations knowledge offers powerful lessons for the future of clean energy and coexistence. Uncle John reflects on the legacy of elders, the responsibilities of relationship-building, and the deep wisdom of living and working the “proper way.”
This is a powerful conversation about respect, diplomacy, and the role of First Nations peoples in shaping a more sustainable future for all.
Resources & Links
First Nations Clean Energy Network
https://www.firstnationscleanenergy.org.au
National Indigenous Radio Service (NIRS) – Deadly Sounds & History of Indigenous Media
AIATSIS Map of Indigenous Australia
https://aiatsis.gov.au/explore/map-indigenous-australia
Supply Nation (Supporting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Businesses)
Follow us on Instagram - @blackmagicwomanpodcast
The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Black Cast nine our Voices. Welcome to the Black Magic
Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail. I'm here on Kubbycobby Country
and I've just run into one of my uncles and
I actually saw him on Garner Country about two years ago.
(00:27):
I think it was two years ago, could have been
a year ago. And we're at the airport and I'm
not telling you any more about this yarn, but Uncle John,
it was so good to see you as I walked
in to the Sunshine Coast Convention Center here at the
first Nation's Clean Energy Network summit with all these different
mob and You're the first one that I got to see.
(00:49):
So I just want to say thank you for taking
time out to jump on this pod and have a
yarn with me for my listeners, but also viewers now
on YouTube. Thank you for joining us as well. Got
a few more subscribers, which is deadly. Tell us a
little bit about just what We'll start with your name
and who's your mob, and maybe a little bit about
where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What am Mollie Mantadara. As I said this morning, you
just turn up. There's this universal alignment that occurs in
each of our lives, and you my girl, you're turning
up this morning was a blessing and a reminder, a
reminder of this meeting that we're having here, this gathering
on Gubby Cubby Country. I thank them for their hosting
(01:31):
and creating this culturally safe environment for this powerful conversation
about First Nation's clean energy. Myself saltwater connections born on
Palm Island in the late fifties lined up for rations,
which I thought was wonderful of the missionaries, but I
found out it was all stolen wages. So that's these
life experiences that give you a glow and then they
(01:54):
take away that and put a little tinge to it.
Grandfather Country, Saltwater country there, Nuagi people ill Nowagi family
members out that way. Yeah, we've got a lot to
play and talk about in this space. Grandfather Country, then
Nawagi people around Ingham, Grandmother's Country, Mummel people up around Indusvale.
(02:14):
So that saltwater connection. But then I flow with my
movement in being shifted off the dormitory out to western Queensland.
Bidgital cattercattering, gathering bull people. So all your desert uplands
follows out that way. Black soil follows Yep, we've got
big business to do out there, and we're doing as
well too, but we've got to do a proper way integrity,
cultural integrity and doing business proper and in becoming those
(02:37):
honorable ancestors, which I've always been reminded of of the
Watson's coming into that Watson family through nine AUPAT nine FM,
Deadley Murray Radio and the history of that, Yeah, which
reminds me the impactful way that that brother Tiger and
(02:57):
others that That's sixty six referendum. I was started Grade
one in January of that year, nineteen sixty sixth Grade
one slate boards and the like here and all this
was happening around me and I was unaware of it,
this movement. I was told not to be a radical
black by my family out that way there, but guess
(03:21):
what I did? They told me not to become a skypilot.
But guess what I did? Yeah, in this space. So
this gravitation and drawing out all these different lived experiences
ending up now in Brisbane later part of my career
and having the honor to be able to sit in
in positions and lead independent bodies or regulatory bodies around
(03:44):
making this space a lot safer for all who choose
to live on Aboriginal country.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Uncle thank you for reminding us, especially of Grannie Mook
and Uncle Ross. You know they've passed now, but every
funeral we have in our family Mick, Dad, Uncle Johnny,
Uncle Philip, or my dad's brothers grandfathers to my children
(04:11):
on their coffins, we've got honorable ancestor. And Grannie Mook
always said this, you know what kind of honorable ancestor
are you going to be to the children of the future.
And they're so powerful words. And there's a star named
Honorable Ancestor because of Grannie Mook and the impact that
(04:34):
she's had on a lot of people, not just in
this country but obviously around the world. Very proud Gungaloo Beery,
Gubble woman, a Dawson River Murray. So got me thinking
there now about Grant and I can feel our energy
as we are in here. Coexistence is on your name
tag and I've never heard of this business before. So
(04:55):
tell me a little bit. How did you set up coexistence?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Well, I didn't set up co existence. It's part of
this inheritance we've got. So I started. I joined in
with the gas fields Commission a point in there. As
chair of the gas Fields Commission, it came off the
back of all the onshore gas development in industry from
twenty ten through to what we have now. I engaged
(05:22):
with thirty three different Native title cultural heritage agreements, twenty
seven tradition owned groups in the Strap Basin, Bowen Basin,
Your mob involved too in as part of an approvals process.
Those agreements were developed on relationships. But what left a
taste in my mouth was that when we came to implement,
(05:42):
is implemented on commercial terms and which brings us to
where we are now with first Nations clean energy. I
believe the first nation's clean energy. This movement that we're
developing how now is similar to the movement that brought
us a sixty seven referendum, but this is going to
(06:04):
be so much more impactful and we are better organized
to connect up, share our stories and move as one
and all rise with the tides. So co existence quenstand
came out of gas Fields because it was recognized on
the first of July last year. Gas Field's Commission has
done a great job, so we got also then we're
(06:26):
given the remit to look after critical Earth minerals, both
the solar and wind as well as the ongoing gas industry.
So that the relationship between landholders, traditional owners, so those
who are well connected to land in all of its
shapes and forms, and the developers that choose to come
(06:47):
in here. Now that with the passage of legislation too
recently in enacting on the first of July, that there
must be a community benefit shown to any developer that's
looking to work in communities of interests, association and orrige.
They've got to speak to family, they've got to speak
(07:08):
to mob, they've got to speak to landowners. They've got
to speak to the local authorities and respect the history
of people in place and the deep, deep stories that
sit in in country and landscape and relationships.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, talking about developers, we're talking about now you know,
big corporations, investors, people overseas and I've got interests here,
invested interest here. What's some advice you know that you
could share if they're listening to this yarna or watching
it on YouTube, what would you say to them in
(07:41):
terms of how how do they go about building these relationships?
What are those some of those first steps that you
think would be of value to share with them.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Start early, having the conversations, and be very clear in
what you're bringing to the table. Make the interests interests
explicit rather than talking round ways and the like. It's
was suggested yesterday that how we engage when we know
someone gam and come into the room that aren't straight
(08:15):
up and down. We've got our own queues. We read
body language and the like, and these sounds that we
issue with ad we know when someone's gam and so look,
come in and be respectful of people in place, and
take the time, don't come last minute, f pick or
free prior and informed consent means means, start early and
(08:37):
give give of self and interests and agendas upfront. We
can save so much time, We can save so many
dollars being spent on costly legal processes and like, if
we simply just sit opposite each other like we're doing
here now, girl, and having this open hearted, open mind
(08:59):
conversation and use those those body parts as we have.
We've all been told use them in proportion. Two eyes,
two ears, one mouth, use it in those proportions. So listen, listen, listen, Yes,
as the wisdom of old people say.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Listen, talking about wisdom of the old people. I've got
to mention now, Uncle Charlie Watson, bless you. I'm still around,
Uncle Charlie wat Willy to you, my deadly uncle and
Aunt Lilla out at jim Berlanga nursing home and only
(09:39):
mayor with the three elders that you know. I was
privileged and honored for them to ask me to go
into business with them and start Black Card. And it
was really about teaching people about aboriginal tones of reference,
not cultural awareness, about our accumulated knowledge. It comes from
this land that developed over millennia. How do we age,
(10:03):
how do we build relationships, how do we conduct ourselves,
especially as visitors on other mobs country. So Aunt Lilla
or doctor La Watson, these aboriginal terms of reference, you
can call them indigenous terms of reference, but they are
the core principles the foundational knowledge that we teach at
Black Cart relationality. You know the law of obligations, the
(10:29):
law of reciprocity. But everything is embedded in relationships from
a first nation's perspective, in how we get along, how
we settle differences. And I think it's such and I
don't think I know, and I've been taught this in
schooled by the elders, that we developed a sophisticated governance system.
(10:53):
We developed this governance system that we don't think exists
anywhere in the world when it comes to other indigenous
groups because it's lateral flat. You know, male and female
sitting side by side and community coming together when it's
community business. But we've got men's business, we've got women's business,
(11:13):
and there's respect between the two. So if men are
coming into a community, maybe they should bring a female
colleague with them as well, because they don't know if
they're meeting with male and female or if it's a
young woman coming and make sure she's got an older
female or a male there to come with two people
instead of just the one. Some of those cultural protocols
(11:34):
are not known well, I would say most of our
protocols are not known to most Australians because they haven't
taken the time. And you mentioned this, allow for time,
allow for proper consultation, don't come with an agenda. Maybe
come with building the relationship. Come with the mindset that
(11:56):
you're here to build a relationship and maybe the agenda
comes next time. But allowing for times. So these are
really and protocols or steps that people can take to
get the best outcome possible.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Absolutely, time is limited. We look at the average life
expectancy of each us, each of us well, us MOB
is a little bit lower than the general austration Australian population.
So when you multiply the average life expectancy by fifty
two weeks, and see where you're at now that you've
got I got a clock ticking and we just don't know.
(12:34):
So that importance of every every breath, of every thought,
and in the way that we have these conversations between
us and with us and with others those it's a
little bit like the nice seeing creed if you like,
if you wanted to borrow a white fellow fellow comparison
that it's it's a prayer of approach. And when we
(12:58):
come and call the country, it's we've got koi bay
up there a yapooon or in our way there in
the central highlands there too, we say your coup call
out loud in our voice, and we sit and we wait.
We could wait three days or something waiting for MOB
to come and and let us condition ourselves to being
this space and absorbing the spirit of place and the
(13:22):
embodiment of culture and practice and a protocol that belongs here,
so as the circles fall back around if we're doing
doing work, even travelers coming through caravaners, I'm a caravan,
I'm not a grey nomad. Well that's it absolutely black
brindle or whichever way, and there's here cafe late nomad.
(13:44):
But working, working through and it doesn't matter where we
go around this great southern land. We're obliged to practice
our deep seated protocols. And if others that travel country
adopt some of those protocols or the ways of being,
knowing and and behaving, there's an opportunity for us to
(14:04):
have some deep exchanges as we pass through through country,
not just through the lens of a camera, but through
the relationships that we have here and with that person
and there, and the offerings the gifts come manyfold to
say well you should come and stay here when you
come to Victoria or whichever way. Yeah, yep. Those protocols
(14:26):
are extremely relevant for now, and we need we could
do so much more of all of us, each of us,
no matter which where we come from originally joining us
mob here, enjoy enjoy the benefits that come with being
with us. Yeah, it's not a competition. We're going to
share this. Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Uncle. You just reminded me about we're talking about protocols
and country and letting mainstream Australians know it's okay to
adopt some of our customs and pro to cols. In fact,
it will make them, i would say, much more connected
(15:09):
to this country and give them a deeper sense of belonging,
which a lot of non Aboriginal people they don't experience
this sense of belonging that we experience in our country
and on our land. Even when we're in other people's country,
we still know. Well, I know for a fact growing
up in my family and my community, I know where
(15:30):
I belong and that's also a privilege. And I know
that a lot of our mob have struggled with that
sense of belonging because of past gopment policies. With that
welcome to country and acknowledging country, we talk about it
being an ancient diplomatic protocol, a tradition that has been
practiced for tens of thousands of years, and then we
(15:50):
show the Aboriginal languages map of Australia. The iatzis Haughton
version and remind people that this is probably the earliest
example of a human government than anywhere else in the world.
And even though we're being a little bit biased at
Black Card, we believe, and this is what we share
with people. We believe that Abiginal people of this land
(16:11):
invented diplomacy. And what does that mean, you know, how
we engage with each other. It's about minimizing the potential
for conflict. It doesn't make peace right, but it lays
the foundations for positive relation or you know, interactions with
each other. And there's another concept that our little and
(16:32):
aunt Mary talk about in terms of this congenial fellowship
and leave him, an associolinguist, talked about it when he
lived with their mob on our undercountry. They said that
he never come across another group indigenous group in the
world like blackfellows, which is our people here that worked
so hard at relationships with each other. And whether he
(16:53):
coined that term or not, I'm not too sure, but
he was the one that talked about this congenial congeniality.
To be congenial is to create those good feelings the group,
and that's what we need to remind not just non
Abiginal people about it. I think it's now our own mob.
As you say, you've got a lot of work to do,
We got a lot of work to do, especially in
(17:14):
this clean energy space and the renewable energy. In these
transitions into clean energy, what could we hope for the
future for our mob in particular when it comes to
understanding what does clean energy and renewables? What does it
even mean for us? What do we need to look
(17:34):
out for?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It's this lessons of coexistence that comes from thousands of
generations in being in this space allows us to share
wisdom and understanding of what it means to be here.
We all have our mob, we all need a mob,
and a lot of us are finding our mob. But
to those who who are curious, I know another another
(17:59):
phrase that has understood. You mentioned diplomacy longer standing, but
the same same here in so far as traveling traveling
between country. Here we've got the world's oldest passport system,
and that came by a message, Dick, or by the
by the behaviors that we had when approaching country and
the like. So it's suggesting there before that when you
(18:23):
are traveling traveling country, be with us. Have these conversations
with us. Don't fear us, don't be frightened of us,
Sit with us, and deep an understanding of how you
might you might coexist in in place and space, but
also within relationships. Yep, we've all got one. A lot
(18:47):
of my friends said, I've got one. I've got a
black fellow. He's a good friend. And well so I've
got ninety seven ninety percent of Australians out there as
potential friends. So how rich and blessed am I here?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Certainly we can just remind people, yes, of our way,
the old ways, you know, our way of this just this.
I don't know what it is about mob in terms
of just being so approachable, so accepting, so forgiving, so loving,
so understanding. And even Granniemook used to say, you know,
(19:21):
when you speak those words, they can't come back. When
they leave your mouth, they're gone. So think about what
you say.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
They're in the wind. They're in the wind.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
They're in the wind.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
My nanimally nanomally carry carry. Muley Thompson has had a
term bint the way, which means you open your heart.
You open your heart, but you be careful how wide
you open that heart, because there are others who might
might take advantage of but but bint the way. So
it's it's again, it's a practice down through the generations
(19:54):
and be open hearted. There's a risk in that. Love
everything everything else that comes with relationships. There is a
risk in that. But this is a great risk to
be taking, to be sharing space, time and energy between
each of us here coexist.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Uncle, What a beautiful way to wrap up our yarn
and just saying thank you for giving me your time
to share your knowledge, your wisdom, your experience, the work
that you're doing, the work that you're embarking on here
on the Black Magic Woman podcasts. I just want to
say thank you and looking forward to more yards with
you in the near future.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Oh look, thank you, my girl. And I just love
this extended family connection with you and yours and those
arties and uncles. Heah deadly what.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
What a molly your mob. There is more to come
with a lot of the mob that are gathering here
on Kabby Cubby Gabby Gubby Country for the first Nation's
Clean Energy Network Summit. Over four hundred and fifty delegates
are here and I can't wait for you to hear
some of the other amazing conversations that have been recorded
(21:07):
on this beautiful land. I hope you've enjoyed this Deadly
Young Instead of me saying until next time, by for now,
I'm going to leave you with the words and our language,
or word in our language, it says not goodbye, but
we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
What a moly.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
If you'd like any more on today's guest, please visit
our show notes in the episode description. A big shout
out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who continue
to listen, watch, and support our podcast. Your feedback means
the world. You can rate and review the podcast on
Apple and Spotify, or even head to our socials and
(21:44):
YouTube channel and drop us a line. We'd love to
hear from you. The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced
by Clint Curtis.
Black Cast nine our Voices. Welcome to the Black Magic
Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail. I'm here on Kubbycobby Country
and I've just run into one of my uncles and
I actually saw him on Garner Country about two years ago.
(00:27):
I think it was two years ago, could have been
a year ago. And we're at the airport and I'm
not telling you any more about this yarn, but Uncle John,
it was so good to see you as I walked
in to the Sunshine Coast Convention Center here at the
first Nation's Clean Energy Network summit with all these different
mob and You're the first one that I got to see.
(00:49):
So I just want to say thank you for taking
time out to jump on this pod and have a
yarn with me for my listeners, but also viewers now
on YouTube. Thank you for joining us as well. Got
a few more subscribers, which is deadly. Tell us a
little bit about just what We'll start with your name
and who's your mob, and maybe a little bit about
where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What am Mollie Mantadara. As I said this morning, you
just turn up. There's this universal alignment that occurs in
each of our lives, and you my girl, you're turning
up this morning was a blessing and a reminder, a
reminder of this meeting that we're having here, this gathering
on Gubby Cubby Country. I thank them for their hosting
(01:31):
and creating this culturally safe environment for this powerful conversation
about First Nation's clean energy. Myself saltwater connections born on
Palm Island in the late fifties lined up for rations,
which I thought was wonderful of the missionaries, but I
found out it was all stolen wages. So that's these
life experiences that give you a glow and then they
(01:54):
take away that and put a little tinge to it.
Grandfather Country, Saltwater country there, Nuagi people ill Nowagi family
members out that way. Yeah, we've got a lot to
play and talk about in this space. Grandfather Country, then
Nawagi people around Ingham, Grandmother's Country, Mummel people up around Indusvale.
(02:14):
So that saltwater connection. But then I flow with my
movement in being shifted off the dormitory out to western Queensland.
Bidgital cattercattering, gathering bull people. So all your desert uplands
follows out that way. Black soil follows Yep, we've got
big business to do out there, and we're doing as
well too, but we've got to do a proper way integrity,
cultural integrity and doing business proper and in becoming those
(02:37):
honorable ancestors, which I've always been reminded of of the
Watson's coming into that Watson family through nine AUPAT nine FM,
Deadley Murray Radio and the history of that, Yeah, which
reminds me the impactful way that that brother Tiger and
(02:57):
others that That's sixty six referendum. I was started Grade
one in January of that year, nineteen sixty sixth Grade
one slate boards and the like here and all this
was happening around me and I was unaware of it,
this movement. I was told not to be a radical
black by my family out that way there, but guess
(03:21):
what I did? They told me not to become a skypilot.
But guess what I did? Yeah, in this space. So
this gravitation and drawing out all these different lived experiences
ending up now in Brisbane later part of my career
and having the honor to be able to sit in
in positions and lead independent bodies or regulatory bodies around
(03:44):
making this space a lot safer for all who choose
to live on Aboriginal country.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Uncle thank you for reminding us, especially of Grannie Mook
and Uncle Ross. You know they've passed now, but every
funeral we have in our family Mick, Dad, Uncle Johnny,
Uncle Philip, or my dad's brothers grandfathers to my children
(04:11):
on their coffins, we've got honorable ancestor. And Grannie Mook
always said this, you know what kind of honorable ancestor
are you going to be to the children of the future.
And they're so powerful words. And there's a star named
Honorable Ancestor because of Grannie Mook and the impact that
(04:34):
she's had on a lot of people, not just in
this country but obviously around the world. Very proud Gungaloo Beery,
Gubble woman, a Dawson River Murray. So got me thinking
there now about Grant and I can feel our energy
as we are in here. Coexistence is on your name
tag and I've never heard of this business before. So
(04:55):
tell me a little bit. How did you set up coexistence?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Well, I didn't set up co existence. It's part of
this inheritance we've got. So I started. I joined in
with the gas fields Commission a point in there. As
chair of the gas Fields Commission, it came off the
back of all the onshore gas development in industry from
twenty ten through to what we have now. I engaged
(05:22):
with thirty three different Native title cultural heritage agreements, twenty
seven tradition owned groups in the Strap Basin, Bowen Basin,
Your mob involved too in as part of an approvals process.
Those agreements were developed on relationships. But what left a
taste in my mouth was that when we came to implement,
(05:42):
is implemented on commercial terms and which brings us to
where we are now with first Nations clean energy. I
believe the first nation's clean energy. This movement that we're
developing how now is similar to the movement that brought
us a sixty seven referendum, but this is going to
(06:04):
be so much more impactful and we are better organized
to connect up, share our stories and move as one
and all rise with the tides. So co existence quenstand
came out of gas Fields because it was recognized on
the first of July last year. Gas Field's Commission has
done a great job, so we got also then we're
(06:26):
given the remit to look after critical Earth minerals, both
the solar and wind as well as the ongoing gas industry.
So that the relationship between landholders, traditional owners, so those
who are well connected to land in all of its
shapes and forms, and the developers that choose to come
(06:47):
in here. Now that with the passage of legislation too
recently in enacting on the first of July, that there
must be a community benefit shown to any developer that's
looking to work in communities of interests, association and orrige.
They've got to speak to family, they've got to speak
(07:08):
to mob, they've got to speak to landowners. They've got
to speak to the local authorities and respect the history
of people in place and the deep, deep stories that
sit in in country and landscape and relationships.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, talking about developers, we're talking about now you know,
big corporations, investors, people overseas and I've got interests here,
invested interest here. What's some advice you know that you
could share if they're listening to this yarna or watching
it on YouTube, what would you say to them in
(07:41):
terms of how how do they go about building these relationships?
What are those some of those first steps that you
think would be of value to share with them.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Start early, having the conversations, and be very clear in
what you're bringing to the table. Make the interests interests
explicit rather than talking round ways and the like. It's
was suggested yesterday that how we engage when we know
someone gam and come into the room that aren't straight
(08:15):
up and down. We've got our own queues. We read
body language and the like, and these sounds that we
issue with ad we know when someone's gam and so look,
come in and be respectful of people in place, and
take the time, don't come last minute, f pick or
free prior and informed consent means means, start early and
(08:37):
give give of self and interests and agendas upfront. We
can save so much time, We can save so many
dollars being spent on costly legal processes and like, if
we simply just sit opposite each other like we're doing
here now, girl, and having this open hearted, open mind
(08:59):
conversation and use those those body parts as we have.
We've all been told use them in proportion. Two eyes,
two ears, one mouth, use it in those proportions. So listen, listen, listen, Yes,
as the wisdom of old people say.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Listen, talking about wisdom of the old people. I've got
to mention now, Uncle Charlie Watson, bless you. I'm still around,
Uncle Charlie wat Willy to you, my deadly uncle and
Aunt Lilla out at jim Berlanga nursing home and only
(09:39):
mayor with the three elders that you know. I was
privileged and honored for them to ask me to go
into business with them and start Black Card. And it
was really about teaching people about aboriginal tones of reference,
not cultural awareness, about our accumulated knowledge. It comes from
this land that developed over millennia. How do we age,
(10:03):
how do we build relationships, how do we conduct ourselves,
especially as visitors on other mobs country. So Aunt Lilla
or doctor La Watson, these aboriginal terms of reference, you
can call them indigenous terms of reference, but they are
the core principles the foundational knowledge that we teach at
Black Cart relationality. You know the law of obligations, the
(10:29):
law of reciprocity. But everything is embedded in relationships from
a first nation's perspective, in how we get along, how
we settle differences. And I think it's such and I
don't think I know, and I've been taught this in
schooled by the elders, that we developed a sophisticated governance system.
(10:53):
We developed this governance system that we don't think exists
anywhere in the world when it comes to other indigenous
groups because it's lateral flat. You know, male and female
sitting side by side and community coming together when it's
community business. But we've got men's business, we've got women's business,
(11:13):
and there's respect between the two. So if men are
coming into a community, maybe they should bring a female
colleague with them as well, because they don't know if
they're meeting with male and female or if it's a
young woman coming and make sure she's got an older
female or a male there to come with two people
instead of just the one. Some of those cultural protocols
(11:34):
are not known well, I would say most of our
protocols are not known to most Australians because they haven't
taken the time. And you mentioned this, allow for time,
allow for proper consultation, don't come with an agenda. Maybe
come with building the relationship. Come with the mindset that
(11:56):
you're here to build a relationship and maybe the agenda
comes next time. But allowing for times. So these are
really and protocols or steps that people can take to
get the best outcome possible.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Absolutely, time is limited. We look at the average life
expectancy of each us, each of us well, us MOB
is a little bit lower than the general austration Australian population.
So when you multiply the average life expectancy by fifty
two weeks, and see where you're at now that you've
got I got a clock ticking and we just don't know.
(12:34):
So that importance of every every breath, of every thought,
and in the way that we have these conversations between
us and with us and with others those it's a
little bit like the nice seeing creed if you like,
if you wanted to borrow a white fellow fellow comparison
that it's it's a prayer of approach. And when we
(12:58):
come and call the country, it's we've got koi bay
up there a yapooon or in our way there in
the central highlands there too, we say your coup call
out loud in our voice, and we sit and we wait.
We could wait three days or something waiting for MOB
to come and and let us condition ourselves to being
this space and absorbing the spirit of place and the
(13:22):
embodiment of culture and practice and a protocol that belongs here,
so as the circles fall back around if we're doing
doing work, even travelers coming through caravaners, I'm a caravan,
I'm not a grey nomad. Well that's it absolutely black
brindle or whichever way, and there's here cafe late nomad.
(13:44):
But working, working through and it doesn't matter where we
go around this great southern land. We're obliged to practice
our deep seated protocols. And if others that travel country
adopt some of those protocols or the ways of being,
knowing and and behaving, there's an opportunity for us to
(14:04):
have some deep exchanges as we pass through through country,
not just through the lens of a camera, but through
the relationships that we have here and with that person
and there, and the offerings the gifts come manyfold to
say well you should come and stay here when you
come to Victoria or whichever way. Yeah, yep. Those protocols
(14:26):
are extremely relevant for now, and we need we could
do so much more of all of us, each of us,
no matter which where we come from originally joining us
mob here, enjoy enjoy the benefits that come with being
with us. Yeah, it's not a competition. We're going to
share this. Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Uncle. You just reminded me about we're talking about protocols
and country and letting mainstream Australians know it's okay to
adopt some of our customs and pro to cols. In fact,
it will make them, i would say, much more connected
(15:09):
to this country and give them a deeper sense of belonging,
which a lot of non Aboriginal people they don't experience
this sense of belonging that we experience in our country
and on our land. Even when we're in other people's country,
we still know. Well, I know for a fact growing
up in my family and my community, I know where
(15:30):
I belong and that's also a privilege. And I know
that a lot of our mob have struggled with that
sense of belonging because of past gopment policies. With that
welcome to country and acknowledging country, we talk about it
being an ancient diplomatic protocol, a tradition that has been
practiced for tens of thousands of years, and then we
(15:50):
show the Aboriginal languages map of Australia. The iatzis Haughton
version and remind people that this is probably the earliest
example of a human government than anywhere else in the world.
And even though we're being a little bit biased at
Black Card, we believe, and this is what we share
with people. We believe that Abiginal people of this land
(16:11):
invented diplomacy. And what does that mean, you know, how
we engage with each other. It's about minimizing the potential
for conflict. It doesn't make peace right, but it lays
the foundations for positive relation or you know, interactions with
each other. And there's another concept that our little and
(16:32):
aunt Mary talk about in terms of this congenial fellowship
and leave him, an associolinguist, talked about it when he
lived with their mob on our undercountry. They said that
he never come across another group indigenous group in the
world like blackfellows, which is our people here that worked
so hard at relationships with each other. And whether he
(16:53):
coined that term or not, I'm not too sure, but
he was the one that talked about this congenial congeniality.
To be congenial is to create those good feelings the group,
and that's what we need to remind not just non
Abiginal people about it. I think it's now our own mob.
As you say, you've got a lot of work to do,
We got a lot of work to do, especially in
(17:14):
this clean energy space and the renewable energy. In these
transitions into clean energy, what could we hope for the
future for our mob in particular when it comes to
understanding what does clean energy and renewables? What does it
even mean for us? What do we need to look
(17:34):
out for?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It's this lessons of coexistence that comes from thousands of
generations in being in this space allows us to share
wisdom and understanding of what it means to be here.
We all have our mob, we all need a mob,
and a lot of us are finding our mob. But
to those who who are curious, I know another another
(17:59):
phrase that has understood. You mentioned diplomacy longer standing, but
the same same here in so far as traveling traveling
between country. Here we've got the world's oldest passport system,
and that came by a message, Dick, or by the
by the behaviors that we had when approaching country and
the like. So it's suggesting there before that when you
(18:23):
are traveling traveling country, be with us. Have these conversations
with us. Don't fear us, don't be frightened of us,
Sit with us, and deep an understanding of how you
might you might coexist in in place and space, but
also within relationships. Yep, we've all got one. A lot
(18:47):
of my friends said, I've got one. I've got a
black fellow. He's a good friend. And well so I've
got ninety seven ninety percent of Australians out there as
potential friends. So how rich and blessed am I here?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Certainly we can just remind people, yes, of our way,
the old ways, you know, our way of this just this.
I don't know what it is about mob in terms
of just being so approachable, so accepting, so forgiving, so loving,
so understanding. And even Granniemook used to say, you know,
(19:21):
when you speak those words, they can't come back. When
they leave your mouth, they're gone. So think about what
you say.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
They're in the wind. They're in the wind.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
They're in the wind.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
My nanimally nanomally carry carry. Muley Thompson has had a
term bint the way, which means you open your heart.
You open your heart, but you be careful how wide
you open that heart, because there are others who might
might take advantage of but but bint the way. So
it's it's again, it's a practice down through the generations
(19:54):
and be open hearted. There's a risk in that. Love
everything everything else that comes with relationships. There is a
risk in that. But this is a great risk to
be taking, to be sharing space, time and energy between
each of us here coexist.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Uncle, What a beautiful way to wrap up our yarn
and just saying thank you for giving me your time
to share your knowledge, your wisdom, your experience, the work
that you're doing, the work that you're embarking on here
on the Black Magic Woman podcasts. I just want to
say thank you and looking forward to more yards with
you in the near future.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Oh look, thank you, my girl. And I just love
this extended family connection with you and yours and those
arties and uncles. Heah deadly what.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
What a molly your mob. There is more to come
with a lot of the mob that are gathering here
on Kabby Cubby Gabby Gubby Country for the first Nation's
Clean Energy Network Summit. Over four hundred and fifty delegates
are here and I can't wait for you to hear
some of the other amazing conversations that have been recorded
(21:07):
on this beautiful land. I hope you've enjoyed this Deadly
Young Instead of me saying until next time, by for now,
I'm going to leave you with the words and our language,
or word in our language, it says not goodbye, but
we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
What a moly.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
If you'd like any more on today's guest, please visit
our show notes in the episode description. A big shout
out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who continue
to listen, watch, and support our podcast. Your feedback means
the world. You can rate and review the podcast on
Apple and Spotify, or even head to our socials and
(21:44):
YouTube channel and drop us a line. We'd love to
hear from you. The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced
by Clint Curtis.
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