August 27, 2023 • 32 mins
Les Watson has worked extensively throughout Australia and South East Asia, helping people claim back time. He says that he can help us all gain back an hour a day. Thanks to his expertise in time management, Les has earned the nickname “Time Lord”. On Bleeding Daylight, we touch on some of those skills, but we also spend time exploring how he exited a controlling cult and walked into freedom.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Emily Olsen (00:08):
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is bleeding daylight with your host Rodney Olsen.
Rodney Olsen (00:19):
Welcome. Please share bleeding daylight episodes through your social media accounts or through word of mouth so that more people can kick against the darkness. You'll find more episodes and our social
media links at bleeding daylight.net. Inmany areas of life, things aren't always what they seem to be. And that's what today's guest found out almost too late. We'll introduce you in just a moment.
(00:53):
My guest today, he has worked extensivelythroughout Australia and Southeast Asia, helping people claim back time, he says that he can help us all going back in our day, thanks to his expertise in time management
less Watson has earned the nickname TimeLord, we might touch on some of those skills later, but we're chatting to him today to explore a very different side of his life. Liz, thank you so much for joining me on
(01:17):
Bleeding daylight.
Les Watson (01:18):
Great to be here, Rodney, thanks very much.
Rodney Olsen (01:19):
Let's go back some years to the time that a friend invited you to something that was promoted as a personal development seminar. What did life look like for you back at that time? And and what was
that similar all about?
Les Watson (01:32):
I was a lead. Such a lead. I cannot believe I'd kind of go Oh, really. I was in the fitness industry. We were having a great time. And he came back to work one day and gave me a hug. And I've gone he
never heard to me, I don't understand. Theysee oh, you've got to come and do this seminar. And I've gone okay, because I trusted the group that I was with a group of friends that I was with, to the point where
(01:59):
they say we're moving state we move state,which I did, I ended up moving from Tasmania, onto the mainland and, and got involved with health and fitness you see coming to the seminar. And this personal
development seminar was called Insightseminars. It changed my life, it really did change my life, I got a greater awareness of who I was, where I was in the world and what works for me and what didn't work for me.
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Little did I know that it was a front for acult, you don't know these things, you, you kind of go along and I did the first seminar. And that was great. And did a time management seminar after that in the
organization. That was great. And I did thesecond one in Australia. And that was great. Third one fabulous. They said come over to America and do one and I sold everything I had and went over and did that and learned
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how to facilitate groups. That was me beingin a cult, the front was education. And the back was a spiritual cult called the movement of spiritual inner awareness. I didn't realize it was a cult, it took me
finding the love of my life. And heractually saying, I'm not getting out of anything out of these meetings. In fact, on board, I want to leave I can No, no, no, no, you don't leave. No one leaves. What do you
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mean leave? And we are to and fro to and froit over certain weeks and months. It came a point where we were reading a book called A Course in Miracles. Marianne Williamson, the word Christ was in the book, and the scales
fell from my wife's eyes and went, What am Idoing? I know the answer is Christ. What am I doing? Because she was actually born again. She was a Christian and came into the new age, fortunately got me in this, this
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awakening for her. She said, I want to goback. I want to I want to talk to a Christian and I want to get my life back to Christ. Who do you know? And I said, I know my friend, Alan. But I don't want to go to
him because he'll preach at me. And shesaid, No, no, we got to go. Would you like to come with me? I said, No. All right, I'll go. And we went down there and within 10 minutes, she gave her heart back to Christ
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and then the clouds parted and a big boomingvoice of water bell to you, Liz. And no, that didn't happen. But we had this backwards and forwards conversation about Christianity and doing it not doing it doing
it not doing it and a half an hour later, Iwent Look, why don't we just do this prayer and see what happens because I could do this forever. I said the salvation prayer and some things dropped off my life immediately.
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Like absolutely immediately pornography,went out the window and never returned. For some people, the hooks of pornography, stay in for a long, long, long, long, long, long time and hard to get out. out, Christ came
in, and porn wet and I went there that's ona miracle. I do not know what is. So that was the Sunday on the Sunday, I found myself on the altar at a church in Sydney called Christians at church or C three, and I was
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on the altar and my wife took my son out.And when she turned around and looked at the monitors, she found that I was on the altar, giving my heart to Christ. And in a public setting, not a a lounge room. And the rest
is history. I was 13 years in the new age.And it was 1998 that I gave my life to Christ, and the rest has been a journey with Jesus.
Rodney Olsen (05:36):
It's an amazing story. And that gives us the big picture. So let's delve into some of those details. Because it's interesting. It starts out as this personal development course, then you
realize that it's a cult. And firstly, Isuppose we need to recognize that in many cults, in many alternative believes, there is truth in there, there is some truth. And that's what hooks us in the first place.
(06:01):
This is actually making a difference in mylife, this is something that's helpful for me. And that's the hook before it starts to veer off, isn't it?
Les Watson (06:11):
I very much thought it was the truth veiled, so to speak, was so close to the truth, that it looked bright and shiny and welcoming. But it was off. Yes, there were truths in there there. masqueraded in a
form of it's all about self. And therefore,if you're looking after yourself, then your truth is your truth. And no one should argue with that. There were people that in the back end, I learned to realize or came to
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realize that people as Christians came inand could see how it was so close and yet so far. But I didn't know any different. I was unchurched. I sang in the church choir as a child. That was my understanding of church.
I didn't have a relationship with Jesus. Ididn't I didn't know anything about the Bible. My background, my mom or dad, what publican, so they had a problem. It wasn't a part of my life. I knew right from wrong,
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but I didn't know how to do the right thing.All the time. Like I didn't have a moral compass that was solid, that was rooted in God in that regard. So therefore, in the new age, it was your truth is your truth. And
you make it up as you go along.
Rodney Olsen (07:31):
You're learning things about personal development about yourself, and probably some helpful things along the way. But it was taking you in a different direction. When did the spiritual elements
start to be added? Or were there shades ofthat all the way through that you didn't recognize until it started to loom a whole lot larger?
Les Watson (07:50):
My friends, the ones that got me involved with insight and MSAA, they went on a journey of personal development journey themselves before getting into as we were in the health and fitness industry. There was a
particular guy that came along and he saidthat everyone's made up of the physical, the mental and the spiritual. Now I was in gym, so I had the physical down pat, I was educated to a certain degree, I can hold an
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argument and do a crossword. So I had themental down pat. But I had no idea of the spiritual whatsoever. They decided they were going to go to Hari Krishna is and different churches and check out what spiritual meant.
And I'd never even come across that in mylife. It wasn't something that people were alongside me with a spiritual background. So when they did that, and then ended up in a personal development with a cult in the
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background, they said, are now that you'vedone the personal development, why don't you come to a meeting, and learn from the founder of the organization that started insight, he's got other meetings, you might
like to come to those. The first meetingthat I went to, I fell asleep, for whatever reason, I just went to sleep. And I think I did the second one as well. Someone was trying to save me at that point. But it
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didn't work. And I got into that. And I wasthere for 13 years, like 13 years to come out of that kind of put them on on a hook. So we'll talk about coming out of it in a minute. But it was a quite a journey to come
out of a cult, internally, not externally,externally, it was walking out the door, but internally was quite a journey.
Rodney Olsen (09:32):
The interesting thing is that these were friends that had introduced you into this whole idea. And sometimes we can make up this picture in our mind that cults are filled with people that are sort of
rubbing their hands together thinking who'sthe next one we can hook in and and grabbing and they've all got this this evil intent but by the sounds of it. These are friends of yours, who thought that they had found
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something and they were actually trying Tohelp you with what they had found,
Les Watson (10:02):
Indeed, because it was based in a personal development, did you get a good understanding? Did you get a change of life from doing that personal development, then the spiritual side will add to that, I knew
that if the personal development sidechanged my life, I wanted to tell more people about that. And if I was in the spiritual, then I would tell people about that as well. So I was one of the front
(10:28):
people for the personal development, and wasespousing that, at the drop of a hat, like I would be in a getting a sandwich, and I talked to people how good it was, and enroll them from there. So as far as if you would
call a Christian evangelist, I was a New Ageevangelist, I had a reputation in the organization in the world as one of the best in the business. So I was invited to America to do that sort of work. And I actually
(10:55):
said, Yep, thank you. But I'll stay inAustralia. And I'm so glad I did. Because it it led me to where I am today, rather than getting caught up in the trappings of being in America and, and doing those things.
Rodney Olsen (11:09):
Now, this might be a bit of a tangent, but I am seeing here that as you say, you're an evangelist for this movement, because you have found something that at this point, you think this is the answer.
And you're so keen to share it witheveryone, whether they're selling you a sandwich, or friends or whoever it might be. Why do you think it is that those of us who follow Jesus and understand that he is the
(11:33):
answer to live as sometimes so reticent toshare that good news with other people,
Les Watson (11:39):
Because it's a simple fact of the enemy wants us to keep us in the dark number one, and there'll be scales and our eyes and our ears will be be blocked, and their heart will be hard to the gospel. So
that the enemy plays that path of No, I'mkeeping them trapped, I'm keeping them trapped. I'm keeping them on track. And when you said me, being an evangelist, I thought in coming to Christ, it would be as simple
(12:09):
as switching the switch from professing howgood the new age was, to professing how good Christ was. And I'm going, come on, Lord, let me go down the street. Come on, let me pull them all in and do home church and, and
do that, and he went now, what do you mean?No. I mean, I'm itching i It's like, that's what I did in the new age. I was, I was the pole in the new age. It's like, why would? Why would you not say that I needed to get
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that out of you. I was on the back burnerfor years and years and years and years and years. So that I was able to get a firm foundation in Christ, before I started to talk to people about the gospel. So it was
solid, and rooted in Christ, as opposed tothe remnants of my understandings and teaching to the new age.
Rodney Olsen (13:05):
I'm interested in the book that you mentioned A Course in Miracles, because I've seen it mentioned here and there. And it's always been something troubling to me, because I know that it's
certainly not scripture. And yet, sometimeseven I see people that are on the fringes of Christianity are reading this book and taking this as part of something that will awaken them to the reality of life. Tell me
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what's actually in this book? What's itabout?
Les Watson (13:32):
That is a great question, because it was many years ago, in 1998, just prior to that, I have I have I burned it probably never given it away, probably. I let it go. But the piece in the background
was it mentions Christ, it mentions the wordChrist, or Christ consciousness or along those lines. Marianne Williamson was a Christian, and she moved away and got lured into the new age in that regard, and went
(14:03):
off from the truth. We say that there isonly one truth and that's the Bible. And it's from the beginning of the Bible from Genesis always super revelation. Why? Because it's the word of God. Yet some
people take that and go, Yeah, but yeah, butwhat about this? And what about that? I'll just stick with the Bible. I'll just stick with the Bible. Does that make me a zealot? No, I can have great conversations with
(14:28):
people. And I don't hit him over the headwith it. I find it where people are and love them through to an understanding and most recently, Rodney have had somebody do that. I've been working with them and mentoring
them and coaching them for coming up to fouryears. And it was only recently that they were at a a seminar in Bali. And someone said, you really need God. You really need God where you are at the moment you really
(14:55):
need God. And she's come to me in a messageand said, I think I need to go Church, and I have fallen off my chair. Because every time in our conversations, I'd say God, she said, universe. And I'd say God, and she'd say,
you know, I'd say Jason Cynthia universe. Soshe was really kind of pushing back. And eventually someone broke through. And I said, Can I take you to church, and she said, I'd love that. So she's been a couple
(15:22):
of times now and really wants to push intothat. But it's not a matter of actually telling some people how bad they are. Sometimes it's a matter of just coming alongside them, and letting God do the work
over time. And it comes to pass, I wouldhave liked to have her soul in the first month or year. And yet it's taken four years to get there.
Rodney Olsen (15:47):
It is journey that we go on with people. And it is interesting, going back to that book, of course, in miracles, and there are so many different texts around the place where they can start out with
people who are following Christ and theystart to veer off, there's this tendency within the human spirit to want to feel like we have a new revelation that we have something new to bring to it, rather than
(16:12):
holding on to the tried and tested truth,isn't there? What do you think it is in us that that wants to have this something special, this some new revelation?
Les Watson (16:21):
If I'm not hearing from God, or if I'm not under good leadership, then I'm going to look elsewhere? Thinking, there's got to be another answer. There's gotta be something out there that can satisfy that
need. If you have said to me, X amount ofyears ago, you'd be reading the Bible every day. Oh, we got to hear that. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. And yet on reading the Bible every day, I run a men's
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group. I'm under a good pastor, I've gotleadership, I've got people who can give me course correction, and look after me and put an arm around my shoulder and say, Hey, have you thought about you might like to those
sorts of things. So I don't believe thatyou're supposed to do the Christian journey alone. I think churches there for a reason. And for some people, they've never found a good church. And I go find a good church,
(17:15):
find someone that you can put yourself undergood teaching, good biblical teaching, that feeds your soul and feed your spirit so that in doing so, you can draw closer to Christ. It's a matter of, again, I'll come back to
that point of we don't do this alone. Andthe men's group that I run, I didn't want to do it. My pastor at the time said, Can you oversee this group? And I said, Yes, I'll oversee it. But I've got other things I need
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to do. And as soon as I said, I'd overseeit, the next person came up to me and said, I believe you're the group leader, and I've gone Oh, that was that, Oh, how did I end up there. And that's been X amount of years
later, and I'm still running the group. Butwe do come together and do life together. And we're able to speak into each other's life around to be honest with each other iron sharpens iron, the Bible says. So we're
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able to actually lift each other up. We'vegone through some monumental problems of people losing jobs, and people getting ill and spouses getting ill, where you need people alongside you to do life with so that
they can point you to God, they can go God'sin this God's with you. God will look after you. The Bible says Jeremiah 2011 says, For I know the plans I have for you declares the LORD plans to prosper you not to harm you
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plans to give you hope and a future. And tohave somebody else say that to you just remind you to get back on track. I love that
Rodney Olsen (18:45):
your wife was the first one who recognized that something was not quite right here. And that Christ may well be the answer. Tell me about it. When she first said to you, I really do need to get back to
this faith told me about someone who cantake me there. What was your first thought?
Les Watson (19:06):
All it was that that friend, we were best mates in the new age. He mentored me in the new age. And he looked after me in the new age, we live together. It was a lovely brotherhood in that regard. And then
when he met Christ, the organization bannedhim blacklisted him, so I lost my best mate. Every time I went to him, he would bring Christ into the conversation and I've gone and just rubbed me up the wrong way. So when
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my wife said, I want to speak to Alan, I'vegone I don't want to go to Alan because he'll free chat. And yet over time, obviously it got in because it made the way available and there's a saying that some
people so some people water and some peoplerip. Fortunately, he was able to do both he was able to sow the seed of corn I just in my life. And over time water, even though I on the outward side would have said that I
(20:07):
was rejecting him and the message, but itwas still being watered over time, until finally, over the lunch table is gone. Let's do this. He said, I said it. And that as was said earlier, the scales fell from my eyes
this time, and I got to have a whole biggerunderstanding of God and the ramifications.
Rodney Olsen (20:30):
Tell me about that journey out because you mentioned before that it's easy enough to just walk out the door of that cult walk into the door of a church. But there was a lot more to it internally, tell
me about that struggle for you.
Les Watson (20:44):
The cult had a mantra that you would say under your breath. So in your head, when you received it, you received it from an initiate in the occult, and they would speak it into your ear, you would
speak it back. And that was it. That was theonly time you're allowed to speak. That was it, you would then chant that and every time you went to a different level, you got a different chant, to say, because of that. It
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was ongoing. It was daily, it was our livesby the minute you were praying and meditating with this chant. And therefore it got in and I was in that one, which again, seven years of saying it internally. When I
came to Christ, some of the said, you know,you need to get rid of that. And I go, Yeah, and how do I do that? You need to speak it out. And I've gone nuts, I'm still income. And I'm sitting there in the chair, cuz
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vividly. Remember, I'm sitting in the chair,trying to form the words from my brain to my mouth, and my lips and my tongue to have a come out, and it would not come out. That's the demonic part of it. It's like, it just
was not there. And I've got people prayingfor me, my wife praying for me, and it would not come out of my mouth. And I'm in tears. So it's like, I don't understand how it's so hard to just put this thing out there. Why,
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why, why, why. And eventually, I broke it.And it came out. And that part of my life I had broken through to the other side of being free from that trap. The New Age has a lot of those small practices that trap you,
crystals and palmistry and tarot, and thosesorts of things that on the outside look spectacular, but the enemies in that the enemy has ways of keeping you're trapped in that that's not godly. Try and tell me that
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back in 1997, prior to my salvation, I wouldhave went you ridiculous, what do you mean, but a lot of people in the new age don't know that there's an enemy. They think that everything's light, and good. We know that
there's a battle going on for people'slives. And I was in that battle. In that moment, in the chair, in tears going, I need to break free of this. And I came through,
Rodney Olsen (23:05):
I find it interesting that you mentioned that there are these different levels. And once you achieve a new level, you're given this extra special knowledge. And it mirrors a lot of things that I hear
of different lodges and things like that,where there are different stages and your work and your work. And then you get another stage sort of like a reward. And the ultimate is to continue to climb up the
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ladder. And yet, I see something differentin scripture where as soon as you come to Christ, it's all open to you. And it may take a lifetime journey to understand what that means. And we continue to grow in that.
But it's not like there are secrets lockedaway from us until we perform some sort of act is
Les Watson (23:45):
that that's right, we're in the family. The moment the you confess that Jesus is Lord, that He died on the cross and rise again, then you are in the family, you are a child of God, and you're saved. What
happened for me was I was able to, to leaveall of that new age, lie and the lies that were there and just start that process of unlearning. And it was an unlearning to then the first thing like on that Sunday, they
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gave me a Bible and I wanted to understandJesus so I started with the the New Testament I did Matthew, Mark and Luke and John, to get an understanding of who Jesus was. And that set me up as like a lot of
people go off try the Bible in Genesis Ijust couldn't get through Genesis. It's like, yeah, get a relationship with Jesus, get a relationship there first find out who he is find out what he does. And when I say
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does, did does, why because he's alive. Itdidn't rise from the dead and others like Confucius and and the like. It's like they're dead. And you can you can see where they're buried buried. Eat or whatever that
might be, but Jesus is alive. And it is anunveiling. It isn't an understanding, or growing in that my daily Bible reading, daily prayer that there's always something that comes out of a Bible radio that wasn't
(25:18):
there. The last time I read the Bible, Idon't understand it, like, how come I'm reading it a fresh today? That's amazing. So there's always something comes out of it. And for me, I'll do the Bible in one year,
and currently doing Nicky Gamble's Bible andone year 2023. And what it enables me to do is, he'll do a commentary, he'll do a psalm or a proverb. He'll do New Testament, and then Old Testament. So I'm getting a full
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breadth of the Bible, and the understanding.And I've been reading the Bible now for for years, every year, I'll read it through once a year, and I'll do something on a daily basis. But again, something pops out of it
every single day. You mentioned
Rodney Olsen (26:02):
that way back then. It was like the scales fell off your wife's eyes when she suddenly realized that this is not the direction and I'm wondering if there may be people listening at the moment who are
thinking, the scales are starting to dropfrom my eyes, I see that there is something that I'm involved in that is not actually helpful for me, and even those who are perhaps Christians, but it's faith in Jesus
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plus something else, and they're realizingthat, that plus something else is not good. And maybe the scales are dropping there. What would you say to those people? Uh, huh.
Les Watson (26:37):
Great question. Great question. I'd say, if there's a part inside of you that believes that the secondary practice is a secret, then talk to someone about it. It's like, I've got the Bible, and I've got
something else, or I've got the Bible, and Isee someone in the new age or I'm reading a New Age book, then talk to someone about it, don't have it as a secret. Again, we're not supposed to do this walk alone. So talk to
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someone, again, from a Christianperspective, talk to someone now, if you haven't come across, if you don't know God, if you don't know that, then talk to someone who does and say, educate me why what is it
that that I know? The difference? What isthat, you know? So get into a conversation with somebody that can educate you on or give you an understanding as to why we as Christians, believe what we believe
Rodney Olsen (27:31):
less these days you are involved in helping people in various ways. And your job is involving helping people with something that is actually personal development for them. Without the without
the extras. I guess it's a world away fromwhere you were first inducted and joined into something that had that secret agenda behind it.
Les Watson (27:55):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I needed to unlearn and then relearn. So I came out of the New Age, and I had my own company in sales and customer service in training. So I was doing corporate in that regard. And then
some things happen, and I ditched it all.And I went back to hospitality, which is my roots. Then I came here, and I happen to be in Geelong in Victoria. And someone said, You need to start your company back up. And
(28:24):
I went, No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm notdoing that. And they said, no, they need what you have. I'm able to go into companies from a corporate perspective and work with people on productivity and time management,
I wrote a book called get back an errandevery day, that was well received to the point where they put me on the Today Show with Carl and Georgie, I'm able to do it at that top level, as well as any small
(28:47):
business entrepreneur solopreneur. And wehave a coaching business as well. I work with them, the coaching businesses called creating success coaching. I don't hold back with my coaching, I will put it out there
that God's in, in my business. And here'sthe way it works. I was in a call the other day, and the only people on the call were Christian. So I was able to just I went, yep, yep, yep, they're all Christians, I was
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able to bring God into the picture, evenmore sales, talking about Scripture and talking about a Psalm and talking about how this works, and how the Holy Spirit helps in that regard. Even when I'm in a corporate
setting, I'll go the areas of my life. AndI'll talk about the different components of my life, and one of them is church. And I'll often have people come up and say, I like the way you put church in there. Because no
(29:34):
one does and I wasn't talking about you needto come to faith or I read the Bible every day, but they know that I'm a Christian. And they know that I give myself time to read the Bible. And I give myself time to do the
practices that I do. Why? Because I'm incontrol of my time, and I make time for it. A lot of people just run out of time and I go Yeah, and if that It was good enough for the world leaders to create things with the
(30:04):
time that we have, it's good enough for usto create things that we want. With the time that we have less, I'm sure
Rodney Olsen (30:09):
that there are people that would be interested in gaining an hour back in their day and perhaps grabbing that book. But I'm also convinced that there are people that have been listening, and there are
things that you've touched on. And theythink you know, what there is that in my life that is not helpful. And I need to be relevant. If people are wanting to connect with you in any way, what's the easiest way
(30:30):
for them to catch up with you,
Les Watson (30:33):
my website is get more time.com.au. So gets more time, just get more time.com.au. It has a store on there, my book is on there, you can buy the book as a PDF, download immediate, or you can put in
an order for the softcover. And I'll shipthat out to you. My phone number is on the website, you can get in contact that way. I'm happy to have a conversation with anybody about my story about where you're
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at, and how I might be able to help and givesome perspective on where you're at. Happy to pray with people on the phone, walk you through that salvation prayer that my good friend did with me, because I was lost. And
I had no idea that I was lost. I had no ideawhatsoever. Oh, gets me every time. It was someone just praying for me and praying for me and praying for me. And eventually, I came to realization I needed to do it. And I
(31:27):
was able to do it. So happy to pray withanybody if they need prayer.
Rodney Olsen (31:31):
Liz I will put links in the show notes at bleeding daylight.net so that people can find you easily but I just want to say thank you so much for being generous with your time and sharing your story today.
Les Watson (31:43):
Wonderful. I appreciate that. It was a lovely experience. I look forward to maybe doing it again. Thanks for
Emily Olsen (31:50):
Thank you for listening to bleeding daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others. For further details and more episodes, please visit bleeding
daylight dotnet
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is bleeding daylight with your host Rodney Olsen.
Rodney Olsen (00:19):
Welcome. Please share bleeding daylight episodes through your social media accounts or through word of mouth so that more people can kick against the darkness. You'll find more episodes and our social
media links at bleeding daylight.net. Inmany areas of life, things aren't always what they seem to be. And that's what today's guest found out almost too late. We'll introduce you in just a moment.
(00:53):
My guest today, he has worked extensivelythroughout Australia and Southeast Asia, helping people claim back time, he says that he can help us all going back in our day, thanks to his expertise in time management
less Watson has earned the nickname TimeLord, we might touch on some of those skills later, but we're chatting to him today to explore a very different side of his life. Liz, thank you so much for joining me on
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Bleeding daylight.
Les Watson (01:18):
Great to be here, Rodney, thanks very much.
Rodney Olsen (01:19):
Let's go back some years to the time that a friend invited you to something that was promoted as a personal development seminar. What did life look like for you back at that time? And and what was
that similar all about?
Les Watson (01:32):
I was a lead. Such a lead. I cannot believe I'd kind of go Oh, really. I was in the fitness industry. We were having a great time. And he came back to work one day and gave me a hug. And I've gone he
never heard to me, I don't understand. Theysee oh, you've got to come and do this seminar. And I've gone okay, because I trusted the group that I was with a group of friends that I was with, to the point where
(01:59):
they say we're moving state we move state,which I did, I ended up moving from Tasmania, onto the mainland and, and got involved with health and fitness you see coming to the seminar. And this personal
development seminar was called Insightseminars. It changed my life, it really did change my life, I got a greater awareness of who I was, where I was in the world and what works for me and what didn't work for me.
(02:23):
Little did I know that it was a front for acult, you don't know these things, you, you kind of go along and I did the first seminar. And that was great. And did a time management seminar after that in the
organization. That was great. And I did thesecond one in Australia. And that was great. Third one fabulous. They said come over to America and do one and I sold everything I had and went over and did that and learned
(02:49):
how to facilitate groups. That was me beingin a cult, the front was education. And the back was a spiritual cult called the movement of spiritual inner awareness. I didn't realize it was a cult, it took me
finding the love of my life. And heractually saying, I'm not getting out of anything out of these meetings. In fact, on board, I want to leave I can No, no, no, no, you don't leave. No one leaves. What do you
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mean leave? And we are to and fro to and froit over certain weeks and months. It came a point where we were reading a book called A Course in Miracles. Marianne Williamson, the word Christ was in the book, and the scales
fell from my wife's eyes and went, What am Idoing? I know the answer is Christ. What am I doing? Because she was actually born again. She was a Christian and came into the new age, fortunately got me in this, this
(03:55):
awakening for her. She said, I want to goback. I want to I want to talk to a Christian and I want to get my life back to Christ. Who do you know? And I said, I know my friend, Alan. But I don't want to go to
him because he'll preach at me. And shesaid, No, no, we got to go. Would you like to come with me? I said, No. All right, I'll go. And we went down there and within 10 minutes, she gave her heart back to Christ
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and then the clouds parted and a big boomingvoice of water bell to you, Liz. And no, that didn't happen. But we had this backwards and forwards conversation about Christianity and doing it not doing it doing
it not doing it and a half an hour later, Iwent Look, why don't we just do this prayer and see what happens because I could do this forever. I said the salvation prayer and some things dropped off my life immediately.
(04:47):
Like absolutely immediately pornography,went out the window and never returned. For some people, the hooks of pornography, stay in for a long, long, long, long, long, long time and hard to get out. out, Christ came
in, and porn wet and I went there that's ona miracle. I do not know what is. So that was the Sunday on the Sunday, I found myself on the altar at a church in Sydney called Christians at church or C three, and I was
(05:14):
on the altar and my wife took my son out.And when she turned around and looked at the monitors, she found that I was on the altar, giving my heart to Christ. And in a public setting, not a a lounge room. And the rest
is history. I was 13 years in the new age.And it was 1998 that I gave my life to Christ, and the rest has been a journey with Jesus.
Rodney Olsen (05:36):
It's an amazing story. And that gives us the big picture. So let's delve into some of those details. Because it's interesting. It starts out as this personal development course, then you
realize that it's a cult. And firstly, Isuppose we need to recognize that in many cults, in many alternative believes, there is truth in there, there is some truth. And that's what hooks us in the first place.
(06:01):
This is actually making a difference in mylife, this is something that's helpful for me. And that's the hook before it starts to veer off, isn't it?
Les Watson (06:11):
I very much thought it was the truth veiled, so to speak, was so close to the truth, that it looked bright and shiny and welcoming. But it was off. Yes, there were truths in there there. masqueraded in a
form of it's all about self. And therefore,if you're looking after yourself, then your truth is your truth. And no one should argue with that. There were people that in the back end, I learned to realize or came to
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realize that people as Christians came inand could see how it was so close and yet so far. But I didn't know any different. I was unchurched. I sang in the church choir as a child. That was my understanding of church.
I didn't have a relationship with Jesus. Ididn't I didn't know anything about the Bible. My background, my mom or dad, what publican, so they had a problem. It wasn't a part of my life. I knew right from wrong,
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but I didn't know how to do the right thing.All the time. Like I didn't have a moral compass that was solid, that was rooted in God in that regard. So therefore, in the new age, it was your truth is your truth. And
you make it up as you go along.
Rodney Olsen (07:31):
You're learning things about personal development about yourself, and probably some helpful things along the way. But it was taking you in a different direction. When did the spiritual elements
start to be added? Or were there shades ofthat all the way through that you didn't recognize until it started to loom a whole lot larger?
Les Watson (07:50):
My friends, the ones that got me involved with insight and MSAA, they went on a journey of personal development journey themselves before getting into as we were in the health and fitness industry. There was a
particular guy that came along and he saidthat everyone's made up of the physical, the mental and the spiritual. Now I was in gym, so I had the physical down pat, I was educated to a certain degree, I can hold an
(08:17):
argument and do a crossword. So I had themental down pat. But I had no idea of the spiritual whatsoever. They decided they were going to go to Hari Krishna is and different churches and check out what spiritual meant.
And I'd never even come across that in mylife. It wasn't something that people were alongside me with a spiritual background. So when they did that, and then ended up in a personal development with a cult in the
(08:44):
background, they said, are now that you'vedone the personal development, why don't you come to a meeting, and learn from the founder of the organization that started insight, he's got other meetings, you might
like to come to those. The first meetingthat I went to, I fell asleep, for whatever reason, I just went to sleep. And I think I did the second one as well. Someone was trying to save me at that point. But it
(09:11):
didn't work. And I got into that. And I wasthere for 13 years, like 13 years to come out of that kind of put them on on a hook. So we'll talk about coming out of it in a minute. But it was a quite a journey to come
out of a cult, internally, not externally,externally, it was walking out the door, but internally was quite a journey.
Rodney Olsen (09:32):
The interesting thing is that these were friends that had introduced you into this whole idea. And sometimes we can make up this picture in our mind that cults are filled with people that are sort of
rubbing their hands together thinking who'sthe next one we can hook in and and grabbing and they've all got this this evil intent but by the sounds of it. These are friends of yours, who thought that they had found
(09:57):
something and they were actually trying Tohelp you with what they had found,
Les Watson (10:02):
Indeed, because it was based in a personal development, did you get a good understanding? Did you get a change of life from doing that personal development, then the spiritual side will add to that, I knew
that if the personal development sidechanged my life, I wanted to tell more people about that. And if I was in the spiritual, then I would tell people about that as well. So I was one of the front
(10:28):
people for the personal development, and wasespousing that, at the drop of a hat, like I would be in a getting a sandwich, and I talked to people how good it was, and enroll them from there. So as far as if you would
call a Christian evangelist, I was a New Ageevangelist, I had a reputation in the organization in the world as one of the best in the business. So I was invited to America to do that sort of work. And I actually
(10:55):
said, Yep, thank you. But I'll stay inAustralia. And I'm so glad I did. Because it it led me to where I am today, rather than getting caught up in the trappings of being in America and, and doing those things.
Rodney Olsen (11:09):
Now, this might be a bit of a tangent, but I am seeing here that as you say, you're an evangelist for this movement, because you have found something that at this point, you think this is the answer.
And you're so keen to share it witheveryone, whether they're selling you a sandwich, or friends or whoever it might be. Why do you think it is that those of us who follow Jesus and understand that he is the
(11:33):
answer to live as sometimes so reticent toshare that good news with other people,
Les Watson (11:39):
Because it's a simple fact of the enemy wants us to keep us in the dark number one, and there'll be scales and our eyes and our ears will be be blocked, and their heart will be hard to the gospel. So
that the enemy plays that path of No, I'mkeeping them trapped, I'm keeping them trapped. I'm keeping them on track. And when you said me, being an evangelist, I thought in coming to Christ, it would be as simple
(12:09):
as switching the switch from professing howgood the new age was, to professing how good Christ was. And I'm going, come on, Lord, let me go down the street. Come on, let me pull them all in and do home church and, and
do that, and he went now, what do you mean?No. I mean, I'm itching i It's like, that's what I did in the new age. I was, I was the pole in the new age. It's like, why would? Why would you not say that I needed to get
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that out of you. I was on the back burnerfor years and years and years and years and years. So that I was able to get a firm foundation in Christ, before I started to talk to people about the gospel. So it was
solid, and rooted in Christ, as opposed tothe remnants of my understandings and teaching to the new age.
Rodney Olsen (13:05):
I'm interested in the book that you mentioned A Course in Miracles, because I've seen it mentioned here and there. And it's always been something troubling to me, because I know that it's
certainly not scripture. And yet, sometimeseven I see people that are on the fringes of Christianity are reading this book and taking this as part of something that will awaken them to the reality of life. Tell me
(13:29):
what's actually in this book? What's itabout?
Les Watson (13:32):
That is a great question, because it was many years ago, in 1998, just prior to that, I have I have I burned it probably never given it away, probably. I let it go. But the piece in the background
was it mentions Christ, it mentions the wordChrist, or Christ consciousness or along those lines. Marianne Williamson was a Christian, and she moved away and got lured into the new age in that regard, and went
(14:03):
off from the truth. We say that there isonly one truth and that's the Bible. And it's from the beginning of the Bible from Genesis always super revelation. Why? Because it's the word of God. Yet some
people take that and go, Yeah, but yeah, butwhat about this? And what about that? I'll just stick with the Bible. I'll just stick with the Bible. Does that make me a zealot? No, I can have great conversations with
(14:28):
people. And I don't hit him over the headwith it. I find it where people are and love them through to an understanding and most recently, Rodney have had somebody do that. I've been working with them and mentoring
them and coaching them for coming up to fouryears. And it was only recently that they were at a a seminar in Bali. And someone said, you really need God. You really need God where you are at the moment you really
(14:55):
need God. And she's come to me in a messageand said, I think I need to go Church, and I have fallen off my chair. Because every time in our conversations, I'd say God, she said, universe. And I'd say God, and she'd say,
you know, I'd say Jason Cynthia universe. Soshe was really kind of pushing back. And eventually someone broke through. And I said, Can I take you to church, and she said, I'd love that. So she's been a couple
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of times now and really wants to push intothat. But it's not a matter of actually telling some people how bad they are. Sometimes it's a matter of just coming alongside them, and letting God do the work
over time. And it comes to pass, I wouldhave liked to have her soul in the first month or year. And yet it's taken four years to get there.
Rodney Olsen (15:47):
It is journey that we go on with people. And it is interesting, going back to that book, of course, in miracles, and there are so many different texts around the place where they can start out with
people who are following Christ and theystart to veer off, there's this tendency within the human spirit to want to feel like we have a new revelation that we have something new to bring to it, rather than
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holding on to the tried and tested truth,isn't there? What do you think it is in us that that wants to have this something special, this some new revelation?
Les Watson (16:21):
If I'm not hearing from God, or if I'm not under good leadership, then I'm going to look elsewhere? Thinking, there's got to be another answer. There's gotta be something out there that can satisfy that
need. If you have said to me, X amount ofyears ago, you'd be reading the Bible every day. Oh, we got to hear that. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. And yet on reading the Bible every day, I run a men's
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group. I'm under a good pastor, I've gotleadership, I've got people who can give me course correction, and look after me and put an arm around my shoulder and say, Hey, have you thought about you might like to those
sorts of things. So I don't believe thatyou're supposed to do the Christian journey alone. I think churches there for a reason. And for some people, they've never found a good church. And I go find a good church,
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find someone that you can put yourself undergood teaching, good biblical teaching, that feeds your soul and feed your spirit so that in doing so, you can draw closer to Christ. It's a matter of, again, I'll come back to
that point of we don't do this alone. Andthe men's group that I run, I didn't want to do it. My pastor at the time said, Can you oversee this group? And I said, Yes, I'll oversee it. But I've got other things I need
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to do. And as soon as I said, I'd overseeit, the next person came up to me and said, I believe you're the group leader, and I've gone Oh, that was that, Oh, how did I end up there. And that's been X amount of years
later, and I'm still running the group. Butwe do come together and do life together. And we're able to speak into each other's life around to be honest with each other iron sharpens iron, the Bible says. So we're
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able to actually lift each other up. We'vegone through some monumental problems of people losing jobs, and people getting ill and spouses getting ill, where you need people alongside you to do life with so that
they can point you to God, they can go God'sin this God's with you. God will look after you. The Bible says Jeremiah 2011 says, For I know the plans I have for you declares the LORD plans to prosper you not to harm you
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plans to give you hope and a future. And tohave somebody else say that to you just remind you to get back on track. I love that
Rodney Olsen (18:45):
your wife was the first one who recognized that something was not quite right here. And that Christ may well be the answer. Tell me about it. When she first said to you, I really do need to get back to
this faith told me about someone who cantake me there. What was your first thought?
Les Watson (19:06):
All it was that that friend, we were best mates in the new age. He mentored me in the new age. And he looked after me in the new age, we live together. It was a lovely brotherhood in that regard. And then
when he met Christ, the organization bannedhim blacklisted him, so I lost my best mate. Every time I went to him, he would bring Christ into the conversation and I've gone and just rubbed me up the wrong way. So when
(19:34):
my wife said, I want to speak to Alan, I'vegone I don't want to go to Alan because he'll free chat. And yet over time, obviously it got in because it made the way available and there's a saying that some
people so some people water and some peoplerip. Fortunately, he was able to do both he was able to sow the seed of corn I just in my life. And over time water, even though I on the outward side would have said that I
(20:07):
was rejecting him and the message, but itwas still being watered over time, until finally, over the lunch table is gone. Let's do this. He said, I said it. And that as was said earlier, the scales fell from my eyes
this time, and I got to have a whole biggerunderstanding of God and the ramifications.
Rodney Olsen (20:30):
Tell me about that journey out because you mentioned before that it's easy enough to just walk out the door of that cult walk into the door of a church. But there was a lot more to it internally, tell
me about that struggle for you.
Les Watson (20:44):
The cult had a mantra that you would say under your breath. So in your head, when you received it, you received it from an initiate in the occult, and they would speak it into your ear, you would
speak it back. And that was it. That was theonly time you're allowed to speak. That was it, you would then chant that and every time you went to a different level, you got a different chant, to say, because of that. It
(21:12):
was ongoing. It was daily, it was our livesby the minute you were praying and meditating with this chant. And therefore it got in and I was in that one, which again, seven years of saying it internally. When I
came to Christ, some of the said, you know,you need to get rid of that. And I go, Yeah, and how do I do that? You need to speak it out. And I've gone nuts, I'm still income. And I'm sitting there in the chair, cuz
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vividly. Remember, I'm sitting in the chair,trying to form the words from my brain to my mouth, and my lips and my tongue to have a come out, and it would not come out. That's the demonic part of it. It's like, it just
was not there. And I've got people prayingfor me, my wife praying for me, and it would not come out of my mouth. And I'm in tears. So it's like, I don't understand how it's so hard to just put this thing out there. Why,
(22:07):
why, why, why. And eventually, I broke it.And it came out. And that part of my life I had broken through to the other side of being free from that trap. The New Age has a lot of those small practices that trap you,
crystals and palmistry and tarot, and thosesorts of things that on the outside look spectacular, but the enemies in that the enemy has ways of keeping you're trapped in that that's not godly. Try and tell me that
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back in 1997, prior to my salvation, I wouldhave went you ridiculous, what do you mean, but a lot of people in the new age don't know that there's an enemy. They think that everything's light, and good. We know that
there's a battle going on for people'slives. And I was in that battle. In that moment, in the chair, in tears going, I need to break free of this. And I came through,
Rodney Olsen (23:05):
I find it interesting that you mentioned that there are these different levels. And once you achieve a new level, you're given this extra special knowledge. And it mirrors a lot of things that I hear
of different lodges and things like that,where there are different stages and your work and your work. And then you get another stage sort of like a reward. And the ultimate is to continue to climb up the
(23:28):
ladder. And yet, I see something differentin scripture where as soon as you come to Christ, it's all open to you. And it may take a lifetime journey to understand what that means. And we continue to grow in that.
But it's not like there are secrets lockedaway from us until we perform some sort of act is
Les Watson (23:45):
that that's right, we're in the family. The moment the you confess that Jesus is Lord, that He died on the cross and rise again, then you are in the family, you are a child of God, and you're saved. What
happened for me was I was able to, to leaveall of that new age, lie and the lies that were there and just start that process of unlearning. And it was an unlearning to then the first thing like on that Sunday, they
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gave me a Bible and I wanted to understandJesus so I started with the the New Testament I did Matthew, Mark and Luke and John, to get an understanding of who Jesus was. And that set me up as like a lot of
people go off try the Bible in Genesis Ijust couldn't get through Genesis. It's like, yeah, get a relationship with Jesus, get a relationship there first find out who he is find out what he does. And when I say
(24:46):
does, did does, why because he's alive. Itdidn't rise from the dead and others like Confucius and and the like. It's like they're dead. And you can you can see where they're buried buried. Eat or whatever that
might be, but Jesus is alive. And it is anunveiling. It isn't an understanding, or growing in that my daily Bible reading, daily prayer that there's always something that comes out of a Bible radio that wasn't
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there. The last time I read the Bible, Idon't understand it, like, how come I'm reading it a fresh today? That's amazing. So there's always something comes out of it. And for me, I'll do the Bible in one year,
and currently doing Nicky Gamble's Bible andone year 2023. And what it enables me to do is, he'll do a commentary, he'll do a psalm or a proverb. He'll do New Testament, and then Old Testament. So I'm getting a full
(25:45):
breadth of the Bible, and the understanding.And I've been reading the Bible now for for years, every year, I'll read it through once a year, and I'll do something on a daily basis. But again, something pops out of it
every single day. You mentioned
Rodney Olsen (26:02):
that way back then. It was like the scales fell off your wife's eyes when she suddenly realized that this is not the direction and I'm wondering if there may be people listening at the moment who are
thinking, the scales are starting to dropfrom my eyes, I see that there is something that I'm involved in that is not actually helpful for me, and even those who are perhaps Christians, but it's faith in Jesus
(26:26):
plus something else, and they're realizingthat, that plus something else is not good. And maybe the scales are dropping there. What would you say to those people? Uh, huh.
Les Watson (26:37):
Great question. Great question. I'd say, if there's a part inside of you that believes that the secondary practice is a secret, then talk to someone about it. It's like, I've got the Bible, and I've got
something else, or I've got the Bible, and Isee someone in the new age or I'm reading a New Age book, then talk to someone about it, don't have it as a secret. Again, we're not supposed to do this walk alone. So talk to
(27:02):
someone, again, from a Christianperspective, talk to someone now, if you haven't come across, if you don't know God, if you don't know that, then talk to someone who does and say, educate me why what is it
that that I know? The difference? What isthat, you know? So get into a conversation with somebody that can educate you on or give you an understanding as to why we as Christians, believe what we believe
Rodney Olsen (27:31):
less these days you are involved in helping people in various ways. And your job is involving helping people with something that is actually personal development for them. Without the without
the extras. I guess it's a world away fromwhere you were first inducted and joined into something that had that secret agenda behind it.
Les Watson (27:55):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I needed to unlearn and then relearn. So I came out of the New Age, and I had my own company in sales and customer service in training. So I was doing corporate in that regard. And then
some things happen, and I ditched it all.And I went back to hospitality, which is my roots. Then I came here, and I happen to be in Geelong in Victoria. And someone said, You need to start your company back up. And
(28:24):
I went, No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm notdoing that. And they said, no, they need what you have. I'm able to go into companies from a corporate perspective and work with people on productivity and time management,
I wrote a book called get back an errandevery day, that was well received to the point where they put me on the Today Show with Carl and Georgie, I'm able to do it at that top level, as well as any small
(28:47):
business entrepreneur solopreneur. And wehave a coaching business as well. I work with them, the coaching businesses called creating success coaching. I don't hold back with my coaching, I will put it out there
that God's in, in my business. And here'sthe way it works. I was in a call the other day, and the only people on the call were Christian. So I was able to just I went, yep, yep, yep, they're all Christians, I was
(29:11):
able to bring God into the picture, evenmore sales, talking about Scripture and talking about a Psalm and talking about how this works, and how the Holy Spirit helps in that regard. Even when I'm in a corporate
setting, I'll go the areas of my life. AndI'll talk about the different components of my life, and one of them is church. And I'll often have people come up and say, I like the way you put church in there. Because no
(29:34):
one does and I wasn't talking about you needto come to faith or I read the Bible every day, but they know that I'm a Christian. And they know that I give myself time to read the Bible. And I give myself time to do the
practices that I do. Why? Because I'm incontrol of my time, and I make time for it. A lot of people just run out of time and I go Yeah, and if that It was good enough for the world leaders to create things with the
(30:04):
time that we have, it's good enough for usto create things that we want. With the time that we have less, I'm sure
Rodney Olsen (30:09):
that there are people that would be interested in gaining an hour back in their day and perhaps grabbing that book. But I'm also convinced that there are people that have been listening, and there are
things that you've touched on. And theythink you know, what there is that in my life that is not helpful. And I need to be relevant. If people are wanting to connect with you in any way, what's the easiest way
(30:30):
for them to catch up with you,
Les Watson (30:33):
my website is get more time.com.au. So gets more time, just get more time.com.au. It has a store on there, my book is on there, you can buy the book as a PDF, download immediate, or you can put in
an order for the softcover. And I'll shipthat out to you. My phone number is on the website, you can get in contact that way. I'm happy to have a conversation with anybody about my story about where you're
(30:58):
at, and how I might be able to help and givesome perspective on where you're at. Happy to pray with people on the phone, walk you through that salvation prayer that my good friend did with me, because I was lost. And
I had no idea that I was lost. I had no ideawhatsoever. Oh, gets me every time. It was someone just praying for me and praying for me and praying for me. And eventually, I came to realization I needed to do it. And I
(31:27):
was able to do it. So happy to pray withanybody if they need prayer.
Rodney Olsen (31:31):
Liz I will put links in the show notes at bleeding daylight.net so that people can find you easily but I just want to say thank you so much for being generous with your time and sharing your story today.
Les Watson (31:43):
Wonderful. I appreciate that. It was a lovely experience. I look forward to maybe doing it again. Thanks for
Emily Olsen (31:50):
Thank you for listening to bleeding daylight. Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others. For further details and more episodes, please visit bleeding
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