August 17, 2025 • 30 mins
Pastor Michael Dennis embodies the courage to expand life's horizons rather than shrink them as the years pass. After over two decades of shepherding communities, he jumped headfirst into the world of stand-up comedy. What started as a pandemic dare from friends has evolved into a unique ministry opportunity in the most unlikely of places, comedy clubs where his faith meets the darkest corners of humanity.
Michael's journey from having zero interest in Jesus to becoming a pastor reveals the power of authentic relationship over religious culture. Now, as an empty-nester, he's discovered that comedy clubs provide unprecedented opportunities to meet young dreamers from around the world who are spiritually open in ways that traditional church settings never allowed. His story challenges common assumptions about faith, humour, and the intersection of sacred and secular pursuits, proving that God’s sense of humour might be bigger than we ever imagined.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
This is Bleeding Daylight with your host, Rodney Olsen.
Hello, I'm so thankful you've joined me today.
You'll find many more Bleeding Daylight episodes at bleedingdaylight.net.
(00:31):
Please, help others discover stories of hope and transformation by sharing Bleeding Daylight.
Does God have a sense of humour?
Does God laugh?
Can there be an intersection between faith and funny?
Today's guest balances his love for God and his love for people by taking his faith to places and people where it's needed most.
(01:03):
Today, I'm thrilled to introduce a man who wears multiple hats with equal parts passion and humour.
Michael Dennis has spent over two decades shepherding communities as a pastor, but recently decided that life's too short not to chase new dreams.
So, he jumped headfirst into the world of stand-up comedy.
When he's not behind the pulpit, you might find him at an open mic rubbing shoulders with aspiring comics and bringing his unique perspective to the stage.
(01:31):
A family man with 25 years of marriage and two adult children under his belt, Michael embodies the courage to expand life's horizons rather than shrink them as the years pass.
Michael, welcome to Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you, Rodney.
Thank you so much for having me.
As I mentioned, stand-up comedy isn't something you've always done, and I'm looking forward to jumping in and exploring your leap onto the stage.
(01:57):
But I also know that faith hasn't always been part of your story either.
Can you remember back to the time when you were introduced to faith?
Oh, for sure.
I grew up with a single mom.
My parents divorced when I was three, and so we just kind of bounced around with mom.
Never got connected to a church.
No one ever came and kind of knocked on our door or like invited us to an event.
(02:20):
I really had no personal interest in Jesus.
I knew other kids that talked about Jesus, but as I got into my teen years, I saw them doing the same things that I was doing.
It really wasn't an interest of mine until I had a friend at the end of high school who he came to faith in Jesus, and then he immediately just started talking to me constantly.
(02:45):
Every time we would hang out, what do you think about Jesus?
Give your life to Jesus.
Don't you want to believe in Jesus?
And I'm just like, dude, leave me alone.
The strangest way the Lord used that.
After I would just tell him over and over, why would I ever follow Jesus?
I just felt like I had this kind of thought enter into my head.
(03:05):
Why would you not?
I'm like, what if you did?
And I did.
That was the beginning of the gospel just changing my life.
I'm interested in what happens there because for many of us who grew up in Christian homes, we have this certain understanding of faith that we come to life with.
And yet for others like yourself, if you've had no church background, I guess you suddenly enter this world where they're talking about things that they just assume you know, and you don't.
(03:35):
How was it navigating this new world with people talking about stuff that you're just thinking, I don't really know what they're talking about here?
Yeah, it was really confusing.
We're in Texas.
It's kind of the Bible belt.
And so there is built into our culture, some biblical concepts, but I just knew very little.
(03:56):
I'd never heard of David and Goliath.
I'd seen a cartoon about a bear and a boy that was called David and Goliath.
And so when I go to a church and I'm with other young people and they're making inside jokes, it was confusing for me.
It probably took me two to three years to really connect my heart to a actual local church.
(04:18):
But my faith in Jesus was immediate and intimate and personal.
I just liked talking to him.
I didn't know it was called prayer.
I would go on walks.
I just talk and he would talk to me and it was just incredibly intimate from the very beginning.
But connecting that faith to the local church, it took some time because I did not understand how the two came together.
(04:41):
For a lot of us, there's that stripping away of all the extras, stripping away of the culture until we come to a closer relationship with Jesus.
For you, it's the other way around.
You have this relationship with Jesus and you're trying to work out what this culture is about.
Is there a danger there of coming to a place where you do assimilate with this culture or is that something that you've been able to hang on to?
(05:06):
That now this is about relationship and sure, there's cultural ideas around it, but I need to be true to this faith in Jesus.
I think that's been a primary drive for my journey with the Lord over the last 30 years of really just wanting to keep Him at the center and not get distracted by a church culture or a worldly culture and just try to keep it as simple as possible.
(05:32):
And so when we started the church that I pastor now, that was a main motivator of just wanting to try to keep it as simple as possible.
We sing some songs, we look at the Bible and we talk about Jesus, really wrestling with the question of how do we live out our faith and practical everyday life.
We're in Austin, Texas, which is maybe a little more politically liberal than maybe the rest of Texas.
(05:59):
And so with that comes even some liberal theology or just humanism and secularism.
So it's really just challenging one another of, well, how does our faith in Jesus kind of interact with that part of our lives that we all live in because we're in the city and how do we find common ground with people?
And so it's not easy, and especially the last five years, it's gotten a little more difficult for us, but it's still a primary track for me.
(06:28):
And that's what I see in scripture.
I mean, it's just men and women whose lives have been transformed by Jesus and then trying to figure out how do you navigate our faith with Him in this world.
And as you say, when you look into the scripture, that's what we're called to do.
And we also see in scripture that it wasn't easy for a lot of those people that we read about in those pages, that it wasn't just assimilate with the culture.
(06:52):
There was this striving to, okay, God, what now?
And we see the whole nation of Israel turning away from God, then turning back to God and so on and so forth.
So I guess it's no surprise or shouldn't be a surprise for us that it can be a struggle to put that into practice even today.
Yeah.
(07:12):
The allure of the world is constant.
And unfortunately, I oftentimes don't realize I've fallen away from Jesus and gotten swept up by the world.
And it's only when the world lets me down do I realize, oh, my heart was attached and anchored and trusting in what it had to offer.
(07:34):
And I didn't even know it.
When was it that you felt that tap on the shoulder from God to say, hey, look, being a person of faith is great, but I've got something special for you.
I want you to become a pastor.
How did that come about?
In some ways, it was maybe the very beginning.
I didn't know it at the time, but I was just very fascinated by learning how to navigate the church as a new believer.
(07:59):
And so I was investigating and exploring and learning from the very beginning, and not just thinking about what does this mean for me, but what does this mean for my friends and my family who don't know Jesus?
But if you were to ask me in those early years, would you be a pastor one day, I would have laughed at you.
It just so happened that I ended up at a church in my 20s that was really focused on teaching you how to read the Bible, study it and disciple others and share your faith.
(08:28):
I did that.
Then as I would do that, somebody would say, now go teach it to this person.
Now go teach it to this group.
Now go lead this ministry.
And I feel like it was like a snowball.
One thing led to another, which led to another.
And then I found myself going to seminary.
I didn't plan it that way.
I just kept walking through doors and the Lord led me in this direction.
(08:52):
More recently, you've jumped into a very different world.
And that is the world of stand up comedy.
One would think that you've already got plenty to do as a pastor.
So why would you jump into this world of comedy?
What was it that first drew you to that?
During the pandemic, we were all locked down and there were some dear friends that we were talking to during that time.
(09:14):
And you had one of those nights where you're just bantering back and forth.
And I was like, oh, yeah, people will laugh on a Sunday in a sermon, like a courtesy laughter, maybe once or twice.
But what if I could make a random stranger's laugh in seconds?
I had every intention to do it one time.
So that's where it started.
(09:35):
And I put it off for maybe two years.
And that friend kept asking me like, hey, you said you were going to do this.
Do it.
I finally did.
I spent months thinking about what to do.
I went to go watch other open mics to see what they do.
I just thought, okay, I'm going to do this.
And it was a blur.
I got done.
I went to my wife and I was like, how was it?
(09:55):
Because I have no idea what just happened.
And my wife, you know, she's sweet.
She's just like, you need more funny parts.
Okay.
Because on a sermon, the whole point of a sermon is you're explaining an idea.
Whereas with comedy, you're trying to get to that punchline as fast as possible.
(10:16):
That kind of began the whole process.
I intended it to be a one time deal.
And then by the time I got to my car, I thought, I bet I could do better.
And that led to another time and then that led to another time.
And then eventually I started talking about being a pastor.
And that's where it really clicked for me is that if I could build a set out of talking about being a pastor at a club where they're talking about some of the most darkest parts of humanity, I was just incredibly attracted to that challenge.
(10:48):
So that's what I've been doing about a year and a half now.
It's been so much fun.
I don't imagine it's going to lead to a comedy career, but I love the idea of getting to go into these bars around Austin and talk to the other comedians.
There's been so many spiritual conversations, so many gospel conversations.
Why would I not?
(11:09):
Some of it has to do with stage of life.
I mean, my kids are older.
My wife and I are kind of empty nesters.
And so my evenings are free.
We're in an outlook as a pastor that, you know, you want to work your 40 hours and then you want to have on top of that hours where you're involved in the community to kind of build relationships to share the gospel because that's what we're asking people in our church to do.
(11:31):
They're working their 40 hours and then we're asking them to be involved in ministry.
And so as pastors, we try to model that.
When they were younger, we did play dates and went to the park and we would meet parents and now we go to clubs.
Our church, we talk about it that, you know, everybody where we live, work and play, the Lord will give us open opportunities.
(11:56):
Where I work, I'm not going to meet a lot of nonbelievers outside of Sunday morning.
Where I'm living right now, the Lord's not really given us a lot of open doors, but where I'm playing is through comedy.
And right now the Lord seems to be creating a lot of opportunities there.
There certainly are a lot of opportunities with the people that you're talking to, because as we know, the world of comedy, as you've already mentioned, can be quite dark.
(12:20):
There can be a lot of topics that would normally be taboo that they will take on for the sake of getting a joke.
And we do know that there are some people who will use that and sort of be right on the edge, which is holding a mirror up to society and others just go all out just to make a set as grubby as possible.
(12:42):
Are there times that you sort of sit there squirming in that sense, or do you just see, okay, this is part of human brokenness and I just want to be here with these people?
Yeah, I have gotten more comfortable in that context.
In the beginning, especially in open mic, where you either have newer people or people just trying to find the funny and they're talking about really graphic things.
(13:08):
So my wife will not come to a lot of these shows.
I think I've just learned to appreciate the attempt at people trying to be funny.
At the end of the day, that's what they're doing.
They're trying to find funny.
Shock and awe is sometimes the easiest way.
And that's what I'm essentially leaning on.
My opening sentence, I'm telling people I'm a pastor and you can feel the tension in the room after they've been listening to content.
(13:33):
And then I just talk about Jesus.
I use that to my advantage to try to create some tension and then hopefully try to find things that are funny about that.
That's been the best part is because then afterwards, sometimes guests, but mostly comics are talking to me.
And for the average person, they don't know a pastor.
So I'm a bit of a unicorn to them.
(13:55):
If they're not connected to a church, they've only seen pastors on TV or something.
So they just ask me questions like, so what do you do?
And like, do you get paid?
And do you have retirement?
Where's your wife?
Just normal questions.
Joe Rogan is kind of a global influence right now.
And he's just recently moved to Austin.
And so as a result, our city has just exploded where there's 20 year olds coming from around the world really to come to Austin to chase a dream.
(14:24):
And anytime somebody is chasing a dream, that's going to put them in a place of openness.
I'm just there to see like, where's the Holy Spirit at work on people and how can I be a part of that?
There's certainly a section of the church who would say we are called to keep ourselves separate, to keep ourselves holy and apart from the world.
(14:45):
And yet when I look at scripture, I see things like, even when Jesus was calling Matthew or Levi, as he was called at that time, Levi says, Hey, look, I'm throwing a party at my place.
And the scripture is very keen to share with us that there was a whole bunch of undesirables there.
There were the tax collectors and that kind of crowd there.
(15:06):
And yet when Jesus goes to this party at Matthew's home, Levi's home, we don't see a record there of, and Jesus stood in the corner with his notebook noting sins.
We actually see there he was reclining at the table with them.
There's a sense of familiarity.
How much of that do you think that we've lost?
(15:27):
How much of that have we instilled a fear of being with people who don't yet know Jesus?
I think that's even harder right now.
In the last five years, the nuance of where people have disagreement and the language to express that disagreement is even harder to capture.
(15:48):
As a result, we've kind of retreated because I don't know how to navigate this without stepping on landmines.
And so it's just best if I don't say anything.
I see that in my heart.
I was just terrified as I was beginning this process.
And it's only because the other comedians have been so favorable and kind and open towards me that has allowed me to continue to press into it because I just built up this kind of block in my head that they're just going to yell at me as soon as I start talking about Jesus.
(16:20):
And I see that in our church family.
The corporate office world has made it taboo and you're going to lose your job if you say the wrong thing at the wrong person at the wrong time.
And so we just keep my mouth shut, cut my head down.
So we're really personally just thinking about how to resist that and to challenge our church family how to resist that.
And obviously we don't want to be obnoxious.
(16:42):
We don't want to intentionally offend people, but we also don't want to just disappear.
What does that look like to crack open that door and start to walk?
So I think, you know, to answer your question is that we've definitely retreated in the last few years.
There is a spiritual openness that's starting to kind of creep out in people.
(17:02):
Like they're not necessarily asking about Jesus and the Bible, but they are asking questions that I haven't seen them ask before.
That's been exciting.
Back in scripture, we see that there are Pharisees and religious leaders who are accusing Jesus and his followers of eating with sinners.
Have you experienced that since you've jumped into this new part-time hobby, this new opportunity to meet people and tell them about Jesus?
(17:30):
Have there been Pharisees for you that have said, you know what, Michael, I don't think that this is a good idea.
I'm probably the first.
I still wrestle with it.
The assumption that most followers of Jesus have is that I must be wanting to launch a comedy career to be the next Christian comedian.
I have no interest in doing that.
(17:51):
I want to be a pastor as long as the Lord allows me to do that.
I wrestle with that question.
Like, is this a distraction for me?
Is it opening me up to just demonic oppression or just distractions of the world and where there's other things that I need to be focusing on?
So that's a question that I ask.
There have been a few people that pastors are supposed to preach.
(18:13):
You know, they're not supposed to be in nightclubs.
That's been few.
Even in the world, there's been people that have said, comedians, like you're not supposed to be here.
Not like you're not allowed to be here, but like this is not what pastors should be doing.
And so I think even for them, there's some confusion about what is my life supposed to look like on an everyday practical level?
(18:33):
I think it's a good question to wrestle with.
I think if we're going to be in the world and not of the world, like that's probably a question we need to constantly be wrestling with.
Most people that are close to pastors, especially those in their family, know that anything that they do or say can be taken down and used in evidence as a sermon illustration.
Are your family even more concerned now that they'll end up as comedy material in one of your sets?
(19:00):
I'm always asking them like, Hey, can I talk about this in a sermon?
And sometimes they say yes.
And sometimes they say no.
Of course there have been parts where there's opportunities to be funny and it's the same process of just like, are you okay with this?
And trusting that they'll say yes or no.
My daughter, she's 20 years old, whether it's sermons or jokes, she's like, you should talk about me more often.
(19:26):
I guess it opens up a bigger question too, that some people probably would feel is a question that's already been settled, but some are still asking it.
And that is, does God have a sense of humor?
You know, I was doing a podcast with somebody and they were not believers and they were asking spiritual questions in the interview.
(19:48):
They definitely had the connotation that God was very serious.
Laughing is something you do away from God.
And then when you come to God, it's time to do business.
I said, Oh yeah, I think he's hilarious.
He created everything that's funny and he calls us to have joy.
They were fascinated by that, that there's a levity in our relationship with God instead of just serious.
(20:13):
I think the Lord is the one who's given me these ideas.
I'm not an impromptu, just naturally funny guy.
I'm a process guy.
And so I have to think about something.
And it's the same way with sermons.
I manuscript, I write everything down.
And so I'm really trusting the Lord to give me ideas.
So far, I've said, as long as he keeps giving me ideas, I'll keep trying.
(20:36):
And usually once a week, he'll give me an idea.
And there's definitely been times where I'm like, I guess I'm done because I can't think of anything else.
And then another idea will pop up and I'll start tinkering with it.
I would say this is probably something that has drawn me closer to the Lord, just because I feel like I'm walking in step with him.
I pray before I go into the clubs, you know, that the Lord would protect me, that he would give me favor, that he would cleanse me of just any kind of influences, that he would guard me against temptations.
(21:04):
I feel like it's made my relationship with the Lord more heightened.
(21:36):
Oh, yeah.
We talk about eternal life is not just a duration of time, but a quality also.
What does that look like to enjoy heaven on earth?
You know, to be washed with the peace of Christ that I don't have to get swept up in chasing after the status symbols of the day.
(22:02):
I think at the end of the day, our world is longing for that.
Whether they know that's connected to Jesus or not is debatable.
But I think at the end of the day, they're longing for a peace.
They're longing for satisfaction.
They're longing for rest.
They just don't understand how that comes from Jesus.
(22:22):
And so that's where we get to kind of look for those opportunities.
And that's an interesting point that you're making.
We know that generally people want a peace in their lives.
They want to build good relationships.
They want to build strong families.
And yet somehow we've messed up the message that people don't realize that all of that is founded in the God we serve.
(22:48):
So whether it's in a church sermon or in a comedy club or in our day-to-day life, we have the opportunity to say, no, this is what Jesus brings.
This is the opportunity that we have in him.
Have there been perhaps one or two conversations that you've had either with the comics or people that are turning up to these evenings that have made you think, yep, this has been absolutely worthwhile?
(23:13):
Dozens.
There's not been people who have fallen to their knees and professed faith in Jesus with tears in their eyes.
But even just last weekend, I walked up to a guy that I've had casual conversations.
And honestly, he has sought me out.
And it's usually just like a fist bump or a surface level, but he's the one who's initiated with me.
(23:36):
And so I walked up to him and he immediately just started talking about what's going on in his life and questions that that he's had.
And I mean, there are questions about God.
And I mean, I came home and told my wife and she's like, how was your set?
And I was like, I mean, the set was OK, but listen to this.
Maybe that'll be the beginning and the end of that conversation.
(23:57):
But maybe it goes further than that.
I use the comparison of throwing out bait to kind of see where the Holy Spirit is working.
I'll send a message and to see if they'll respond to me like on Instagram and then maybe like, hey, do you want to go get a hamburger and see if I can meet them outside of comedy?
(24:18):
Just kind of progress the relationship to see if it will take those next steps.
Those probably progressive relationship steps have been slower, but also think like I'm just getting started.
And so I'm hopeful the longer I'm there that I'm building trust and credibility, the more those will take place.
You've already mentioned a couple of things that you've done, such as just arranging those playdates in the neighborhood when the kids were younger and an opportunity to meet other people.
(24:45):
You've used the idea of stand up comedy as a way to be in a place that Christians normally wouldn't be, for instance, to be able to start those conversations.
And that it's very much a part of your church's DNA to say, how can we get out and meet with other people?
How can we share Jesus in the places where his name is not often spoken?
(25:08):
For someone listening at the moment thinking, well, I'm never going to be a stand up comic.
Where is my place in doing this?
What are the sorts of ways that we can start to discover what it is that God has asked to do in sharing him with people, even in our own neighborhood?
I mean, it starts with our relationship with Jesus.
(25:28):
And so just nurturing time with him and prayer and scripture and intimacy and just enjoying him and obeying him and walking with him.
And then I think the Holy Spirit kind of fuels us and empowers us.
And that's where we look at where we live, work and play in one of those areas of where he will give us favor and open doors and credibility.
(25:52):
You can kind of see where people will listen to us or invite us or want to be around us and trying to discern like, where in these areas has he given us favor?
Once you identify one of those areas, just strategically start writing down names of people, what you learned about people.
(26:14):
I mean, unless you could remember it, I can't remember all these things.
So I have to write down things that people say.
And then praying for those people by name and the Lord will oftentimes just give us insight into the lives of other people so that the next time we're talking to them, we're going to have like a greater connection with them than if we hadn't thought about them or prayed about them at all.
(26:37):
And then you just start to kind of explore to see, will they talk to you?
And so what's your name?
Do they ask you questions?
Where are you from?
And then you don't have to ask very many questions before you get into people's dreams and fears and hurts and worries.
And then once you've tapped into that layer of the conversation, well, then there's gospel opportunities there.
(26:59):
I'm very aware that we need to not only be strategic and intentional, as you've mentioned, but we also need to have a deep care for people rather than just seeing them as a project, as someone who needs to be won over.
Can you talk to me a little bit about that?
How do we get the perspective right?
(27:19):
That yes, we want people to come to know Jesus, but we need it to be an authentic relationship with the people that we're interacting with.
Thank you for bringing that up.
That is important.
It is having a love for people and a curiosity for people and interest in people.
I mean, they're made in the image of God.
And so we're inherently valuable.
(27:42):
And so wanting to discover like who these people are.
And that's why I think it starts with our relationship with Jesus, because that's what fuels our love for others.
The other thing that comes to mind is just long suffering.
Most people don't go from like, hello, my name is to growing followers of Jesus.
(28:05):
It's usually a long story of one step forward and 10 steps back.
That's true in my life.
And that's what I've seen to be true in the lives of other people.
And so it's really a long suffering love for people that will give us that perseverance and that endurance to want to keep pressing forward.
(28:26):
And I think what probably keeps me coming back is I never know, there's endless possibilities of what the Lord can do in the life of somebody.
It's what he did in my life.
I was the last person that you would have thought is going to come to faith in Jesus.
I did not make it easy.
I was argumentative.
I was difficult.
And yet the Lord changed my life.
(28:48):
And so that means there's just limitless possibilities or we have no idea where he could move, how he could move.
And that's what keeps me coming back to it.
I just think that's really exciting.
Michael, we've talked a lot about your comedy, but we haven't actually heard it.
So therefore, if people are wanting to hear you perform some of your comedy or see some of your sets, is there some way they can go online and catch up with a set or two?
(29:13):
The easiest way would be Michael Dennis comedy on Instagram.
I try to put clips here and there on there because they're not only people looking at that page to hear something possibly that could be funny, but other followers of Jesus have just been really supportive and they're following along just out of curiosity and excitement and support.
(29:36):
It's been fun to share that story with them as well.
I will make sure to put a link in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you easily and connect with you and your comedy event.
Michael, I want to say thank you so much for spending some time with us today on Bleeding Daylight.
And I love the title.
(29:57):
I love the concept of pushing back darkness and I love the investment to want to just raise the temperature on this conversation.
And so thank you for the work that you're doing.
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight.
Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others.
For further details and more episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net.
Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight.
This is Bleeding Daylight with your host, Rodney Olsen.
Hello, I'm so thankful you've joined me today.
You'll find many more Bleeding Daylight episodes at bleedingdaylight.net.
(00:31):
Please, help others discover stories of hope and transformation by sharing Bleeding Daylight.
Does God have a sense of humour?
Does God laugh?
Can there be an intersection between faith and funny?
Today's guest balances his love for God and his love for people by taking his faith to places and people where it's needed most.
(01:03):
Today, I'm thrilled to introduce a man who wears multiple hats with equal parts passion and humour.
Michael Dennis has spent over two decades shepherding communities as a pastor, but recently decided that life's too short not to chase new dreams.
So, he jumped headfirst into the world of stand-up comedy.
When he's not behind the pulpit, you might find him at an open mic rubbing shoulders with aspiring comics and bringing his unique perspective to the stage.
(01:31):
A family man with 25 years of marriage and two adult children under his belt, Michael embodies the courage to expand life's horizons rather than shrink them as the years pass.
Michael, welcome to Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you, Rodney.
Thank you so much for having me.
As I mentioned, stand-up comedy isn't something you've always done, and I'm looking forward to jumping in and exploring your leap onto the stage.
(01:57):
But I also know that faith hasn't always been part of your story either.
Can you remember back to the time when you were introduced to faith?
Oh, for sure.
I grew up with a single mom.
My parents divorced when I was three, and so we just kind of bounced around with mom.
Never got connected to a church.
No one ever came and kind of knocked on our door or like invited us to an event.
(02:20):
I really had no personal interest in Jesus.
I knew other kids that talked about Jesus, but as I got into my teen years, I saw them doing the same things that I was doing.
It really wasn't an interest of mine until I had a friend at the end of high school who he came to faith in Jesus, and then he immediately just started talking to me constantly.
(02:45):
Every time we would hang out, what do you think about Jesus?
Give your life to Jesus.
Don't you want to believe in Jesus?
And I'm just like, dude, leave me alone.
The strangest way the Lord used that.
After I would just tell him over and over, why would I ever follow Jesus?
I just felt like I had this kind of thought enter into my head.
(03:05):
Why would you not?
I'm like, what if you did?
And I did.
That was the beginning of the gospel just changing my life.
I'm interested in what happens there because for many of us who grew up in Christian homes, we have this certain understanding of faith that we come to life with.
And yet for others like yourself, if you've had no church background, I guess you suddenly enter this world where they're talking about things that they just assume you know, and you don't.
(03:35):
How was it navigating this new world with people talking about stuff that you're just thinking, I don't really know what they're talking about here?
Yeah, it was really confusing.
We're in Texas.
It's kind of the Bible belt.
And so there is built into our culture, some biblical concepts, but I just knew very little.
(03:56):
I'd never heard of David and Goliath.
I'd seen a cartoon about a bear and a boy that was called David and Goliath.
And so when I go to a church and I'm with other young people and they're making inside jokes, it was confusing for me.
It probably took me two to three years to really connect my heart to a actual local church.
(04:18):
But my faith in Jesus was immediate and intimate and personal.
I just liked talking to him.
I didn't know it was called prayer.
I would go on walks.
I just talk and he would talk to me and it was just incredibly intimate from the very beginning.
But connecting that faith to the local church, it took some time because I did not understand how the two came together.
(04:41):
For a lot of us, there's that stripping away of all the extras, stripping away of the culture until we come to a closer relationship with Jesus.
For you, it's the other way around.
You have this relationship with Jesus and you're trying to work out what this culture is about.
Is there a danger there of coming to a place where you do assimilate with this culture or is that something that you've been able to hang on to?
(05:06):
That now this is about relationship and sure, there's cultural ideas around it, but I need to be true to this faith in Jesus.
I think that's been a primary drive for my journey with the Lord over the last 30 years of really just wanting to keep Him at the center and not get distracted by a church culture or a worldly culture and just try to keep it as simple as possible.
(05:32):
And so when we started the church that I pastor now, that was a main motivator of just wanting to try to keep it as simple as possible.
We sing some songs, we look at the Bible and we talk about Jesus, really wrestling with the question of how do we live out our faith and practical everyday life.
We're in Austin, Texas, which is maybe a little more politically liberal than maybe the rest of Texas.
(05:59):
And so with that comes even some liberal theology or just humanism and secularism.
So it's really just challenging one another of, well, how does our faith in Jesus kind of interact with that part of our lives that we all live in because we're in the city and how do we find common ground with people?
And so it's not easy, and especially the last five years, it's gotten a little more difficult for us, but it's still a primary track for me.
(06:28):
And that's what I see in scripture.
I mean, it's just men and women whose lives have been transformed by Jesus and then trying to figure out how do you navigate our faith with Him in this world.
And as you say, when you look into the scripture, that's what we're called to do.
And we also see in scripture that it wasn't easy for a lot of those people that we read about in those pages, that it wasn't just assimilate with the culture.
(06:52):
There was this striving to, okay, God, what now?
And we see the whole nation of Israel turning away from God, then turning back to God and so on and so forth.
So I guess it's no surprise or shouldn't be a surprise for us that it can be a struggle to put that into practice even today.
Yeah.
(07:12):
The allure of the world is constant.
And unfortunately, I oftentimes don't realize I've fallen away from Jesus and gotten swept up by the world.
And it's only when the world lets me down do I realize, oh, my heart was attached and anchored and trusting in what it had to offer.
(07:34):
And I didn't even know it.
When was it that you felt that tap on the shoulder from God to say, hey, look, being a person of faith is great, but I've got something special for you.
I want you to become a pastor.
How did that come about?
In some ways, it was maybe the very beginning.
I didn't know it at the time, but I was just very fascinated by learning how to navigate the church as a new believer.
(07:59):
And so I was investigating and exploring and learning from the very beginning, and not just thinking about what does this mean for me, but what does this mean for my friends and my family who don't know Jesus?
But if you were to ask me in those early years, would you be a pastor one day, I would have laughed at you.
It just so happened that I ended up at a church in my 20s that was really focused on teaching you how to read the Bible, study it and disciple others and share your faith.
(08:28):
I did that.
Then as I would do that, somebody would say, now go teach it to this person.
Now go teach it to this group.
Now go lead this ministry.
And I feel like it was like a snowball.
One thing led to another, which led to another.
And then I found myself going to seminary.
I didn't plan it that way.
I just kept walking through doors and the Lord led me in this direction.
(08:52):
More recently, you've jumped into a very different world.
And that is the world of stand up comedy.
One would think that you've already got plenty to do as a pastor.
So why would you jump into this world of comedy?
What was it that first drew you to that?
During the pandemic, we were all locked down and there were some dear friends that we were talking to during that time.
(09:14):
And you had one of those nights where you're just bantering back and forth.
And I was like, oh, yeah, people will laugh on a Sunday in a sermon, like a courtesy laughter, maybe once or twice.
But what if I could make a random stranger's laugh in seconds?
I had every intention to do it one time.
So that's where it started.
(09:35):
And I put it off for maybe two years.
And that friend kept asking me like, hey, you said you were going to do this.
Do it.
I finally did.
I spent months thinking about what to do.
I went to go watch other open mics to see what they do.
I just thought, okay, I'm going to do this.
And it was a blur.
I got done.
I went to my wife and I was like, how was it?
(09:55):
Because I have no idea what just happened.
And my wife, you know, she's sweet.
She's just like, you need more funny parts.
Okay.
Because on a sermon, the whole point of a sermon is you're explaining an idea.
Whereas with comedy, you're trying to get to that punchline as fast as possible.
(10:16):
That kind of began the whole process.
I intended it to be a one time deal.
And then by the time I got to my car, I thought, I bet I could do better.
And that led to another time and then that led to another time.
And then eventually I started talking about being a pastor.
And that's where it really clicked for me is that if I could build a set out of talking about being a pastor at a club where they're talking about some of the most darkest parts of humanity, I was just incredibly attracted to that challenge.
(10:48):
So that's what I've been doing about a year and a half now.
It's been so much fun.
I don't imagine it's going to lead to a comedy career, but I love the idea of getting to go into these bars around Austin and talk to the other comedians.
There's been so many spiritual conversations, so many gospel conversations.
Why would I not?
(11:09):
Some of it has to do with stage of life.
I mean, my kids are older.
My wife and I are kind of empty nesters.
And so my evenings are free.
We're in an outlook as a pastor that, you know, you want to work your 40 hours and then you want to have on top of that hours where you're involved in the community to kind of build relationships to share the gospel because that's what we're asking people in our church to do.
(11:31):
They're working their 40 hours and then we're asking them to be involved in ministry.
And so as pastors, we try to model that.
When they were younger, we did play dates and went to the park and we would meet parents and now we go to clubs.
Our church, we talk about it that, you know, everybody where we live, work and play, the Lord will give us open opportunities.
(11:56):
Where I work, I'm not going to meet a lot of nonbelievers outside of Sunday morning.
Where I'm living right now, the Lord's not really given us a lot of open doors, but where I'm playing is through comedy.
And right now the Lord seems to be creating a lot of opportunities there.
There certainly are a lot of opportunities with the people that you're talking to, because as we know, the world of comedy, as you've already mentioned, can be quite dark.
(12:20):
There can be a lot of topics that would normally be taboo that they will take on for the sake of getting a joke.
And we do know that there are some people who will use that and sort of be right on the edge, which is holding a mirror up to society and others just go all out just to make a set as grubby as possible.
(12:42):
Are there times that you sort of sit there squirming in that sense, or do you just see, okay, this is part of human brokenness and I just want to be here with these people?
Yeah, I have gotten more comfortable in that context.
In the beginning, especially in open mic, where you either have newer people or people just trying to find the funny and they're talking about really graphic things.
(13:08):
So my wife will not come to a lot of these shows.
I think I've just learned to appreciate the attempt at people trying to be funny.
At the end of the day, that's what they're doing.
They're trying to find funny.
Shock and awe is sometimes the easiest way.
And that's what I'm essentially leaning on.
My opening sentence, I'm telling people I'm a pastor and you can feel the tension in the room after they've been listening to content.
(13:33):
And then I just talk about Jesus.
I use that to my advantage to try to create some tension and then hopefully try to find things that are funny about that.
That's been the best part is because then afterwards, sometimes guests, but mostly comics are talking to me.
And for the average person, they don't know a pastor.
So I'm a bit of a unicorn to them.
(13:55):
If they're not connected to a church, they've only seen pastors on TV or something.
So they just ask me questions like, so what do you do?
And like, do you get paid?
And do you have retirement?
Where's your wife?
Just normal questions.
Joe Rogan is kind of a global influence right now.
And he's just recently moved to Austin.
And so as a result, our city has just exploded where there's 20 year olds coming from around the world really to come to Austin to chase a dream.
(14:24):
And anytime somebody is chasing a dream, that's going to put them in a place of openness.
I'm just there to see like, where's the Holy Spirit at work on people and how can I be a part of that?
There's certainly a section of the church who would say we are called to keep ourselves separate, to keep ourselves holy and apart from the world.
(14:45):
And yet when I look at scripture, I see things like, even when Jesus was calling Matthew or Levi, as he was called at that time, Levi says, Hey, look, I'm throwing a party at my place.
And the scripture is very keen to share with us that there was a whole bunch of undesirables there.
There were the tax collectors and that kind of crowd there.
(15:06):
And yet when Jesus goes to this party at Matthew's home, Levi's home, we don't see a record there of, and Jesus stood in the corner with his notebook noting sins.
We actually see there he was reclining at the table with them.
There's a sense of familiarity.
How much of that do you think that we've lost?
(15:27):
How much of that have we instilled a fear of being with people who don't yet know Jesus?
I think that's even harder right now.
In the last five years, the nuance of where people have disagreement and the language to express that disagreement is even harder to capture.
(15:48):
As a result, we've kind of retreated because I don't know how to navigate this without stepping on landmines.
And so it's just best if I don't say anything.
I see that in my heart.
I was just terrified as I was beginning this process.
And it's only because the other comedians have been so favorable and kind and open towards me that has allowed me to continue to press into it because I just built up this kind of block in my head that they're just going to yell at me as soon as I start talking about Jesus.
(16:20):
And I see that in our church family.
The corporate office world has made it taboo and you're going to lose your job if you say the wrong thing at the wrong person at the wrong time.
And so we just keep my mouth shut, cut my head down.
So we're really personally just thinking about how to resist that and to challenge our church family how to resist that.
And obviously we don't want to be obnoxious.
(16:42):
We don't want to intentionally offend people, but we also don't want to just disappear.
What does that look like to crack open that door and start to walk?
So I think, you know, to answer your question is that we've definitely retreated in the last few years.
There is a spiritual openness that's starting to kind of creep out in people.
(17:02):
Like they're not necessarily asking about Jesus and the Bible, but they are asking questions that I haven't seen them ask before.
That's been exciting.
Back in scripture, we see that there are Pharisees and religious leaders who are accusing Jesus and his followers of eating with sinners.
Have you experienced that since you've jumped into this new part-time hobby, this new opportunity to meet people and tell them about Jesus?
(17:30):
Have there been Pharisees for you that have said, you know what, Michael, I don't think that this is a good idea.
I'm probably the first.
I still wrestle with it.
The assumption that most followers of Jesus have is that I must be wanting to launch a comedy career to be the next Christian comedian.
I have no interest in doing that.
(17:51):
I want to be a pastor as long as the Lord allows me to do that.
I wrestle with that question.
Like, is this a distraction for me?
Is it opening me up to just demonic oppression or just distractions of the world and where there's other things that I need to be focusing on?
So that's a question that I ask.
There have been a few people that pastors are supposed to preach.
(18:13):
You know, they're not supposed to be in nightclubs.
That's been few.
Even in the world, there's been people that have said, comedians, like you're not supposed to be here.
Not like you're not allowed to be here, but like this is not what pastors should be doing.
And so I think even for them, there's some confusion about what is my life supposed to look like on an everyday practical level?
(18:33):
I think it's a good question to wrestle with.
I think if we're going to be in the world and not of the world, like that's probably a question we need to constantly be wrestling with.
Most people that are close to pastors, especially those in their family, know that anything that they do or say can be taken down and used in evidence as a sermon illustration.
Are your family even more concerned now that they'll end up as comedy material in one of your sets?
(19:00):
I'm always asking them like, Hey, can I talk about this in a sermon?
And sometimes they say yes.
And sometimes they say no.
Of course there have been parts where there's opportunities to be funny and it's the same process of just like, are you okay with this?
And trusting that they'll say yes or no.
My daughter, she's 20 years old, whether it's sermons or jokes, she's like, you should talk about me more often.
(19:26):
I guess it opens up a bigger question too, that some people probably would feel is a question that's already been settled, but some are still asking it.
And that is, does God have a sense of humor?
You know, I was doing a podcast with somebody and they were not believers and they were asking spiritual questions in the interview.
(19:48):
They definitely had the connotation that God was very serious.
Laughing is something you do away from God.
And then when you come to God, it's time to do business.
I said, Oh yeah, I think he's hilarious.
He created everything that's funny and he calls us to have joy.
They were fascinated by that, that there's a levity in our relationship with God instead of just serious.
(20:13):
I think the Lord is the one who's given me these ideas.
I'm not an impromptu, just naturally funny guy.
I'm a process guy.
And so I have to think about something.
And it's the same way with sermons.
I manuscript, I write everything down.
And so I'm really trusting the Lord to give me ideas.
So far, I've said, as long as he keeps giving me ideas, I'll keep trying.
(20:36):
And usually once a week, he'll give me an idea.
And there's definitely been times where I'm like, I guess I'm done because I can't think of anything else.
And then another idea will pop up and I'll start tinkering with it.
I would say this is probably something that has drawn me closer to the Lord, just because I feel like I'm walking in step with him.
I pray before I go into the clubs, you know, that the Lord would protect me, that he would give me favor, that he would cleanse me of just any kind of influences, that he would guard me against temptations.
(21:04):
I feel like it's made my relationship with the Lord more heightened.
(21:36):
Oh, yeah.
We talk about eternal life is not just a duration of time, but a quality also.
What does that look like to enjoy heaven on earth?
You know, to be washed with the peace of Christ that I don't have to get swept up in chasing after the status symbols of the day.
(22:02):
I think at the end of the day, our world is longing for that.
Whether they know that's connected to Jesus or not is debatable.
But I think at the end of the day, they're longing for a peace.
They're longing for satisfaction.
They're longing for rest.
They just don't understand how that comes from Jesus.
(22:22):
And so that's where we get to kind of look for those opportunities.
And that's an interesting point that you're making.
We know that generally people want a peace in their lives.
They want to build good relationships.
They want to build strong families.
And yet somehow we've messed up the message that people don't realize that all of that is founded in the God we serve.
(22:48):
So whether it's in a church sermon or in a comedy club or in our day-to-day life, we have the opportunity to say, no, this is what Jesus brings.
This is the opportunity that we have in him.
Have there been perhaps one or two conversations that you've had either with the comics or people that are turning up to these evenings that have made you think, yep, this has been absolutely worthwhile?
(23:13):
Dozens.
There's not been people who have fallen to their knees and professed faith in Jesus with tears in their eyes.
But even just last weekend, I walked up to a guy that I've had casual conversations.
And honestly, he has sought me out.
And it's usually just like a fist bump or a surface level, but he's the one who's initiated with me.
(23:36):
And so I walked up to him and he immediately just started talking about what's going on in his life and questions that that he's had.
And I mean, there are questions about God.
And I mean, I came home and told my wife and she's like, how was your set?
And I was like, I mean, the set was OK, but listen to this.
Maybe that'll be the beginning and the end of that conversation.
(23:57):
But maybe it goes further than that.
I use the comparison of throwing out bait to kind of see where the Holy Spirit is working.
I'll send a message and to see if they'll respond to me like on Instagram and then maybe like, hey, do you want to go get a hamburger and see if I can meet them outside of comedy?
(24:18):
Just kind of progress the relationship to see if it will take those next steps.
Those probably progressive relationship steps have been slower, but also think like I'm just getting started.
And so I'm hopeful the longer I'm there that I'm building trust and credibility, the more those will take place.
You've already mentioned a couple of things that you've done, such as just arranging those playdates in the neighborhood when the kids were younger and an opportunity to meet other people.
(24:45):
You've used the idea of stand up comedy as a way to be in a place that Christians normally wouldn't be, for instance, to be able to start those conversations.
And that it's very much a part of your church's DNA to say, how can we get out and meet with other people?
How can we share Jesus in the places where his name is not often spoken?
(25:08):
For someone listening at the moment thinking, well, I'm never going to be a stand up comic.
Where is my place in doing this?
What are the sorts of ways that we can start to discover what it is that God has asked to do in sharing him with people, even in our own neighborhood?
I mean, it starts with our relationship with Jesus.
(25:28):
And so just nurturing time with him and prayer and scripture and intimacy and just enjoying him and obeying him and walking with him.
And then I think the Holy Spirit kind of fuels us and empowers us.
And that's where we look at where we live, work and play in one of those areas of where he will give us favor and open doors and credibility.
(25:52):
You can kind of see where people will listen to us or invite us or want to be around us and trying to discern like, where in these areas has he given us favor?
Once you identify one of those areas, just strategically start writing down names of people, what you learned about people.
(26:14):
I mean, unless you could remember it, I can't remember all these things.
So I have to write down things that people say.
And then praying for those people by name and the Lord will oftentimes just give us insight into the lives of other people so that the next time we're talking to them, we're going to have like a greater connection with them than if we hadn't thought about them or prayed about them at all.
(26:37):
And then you just start to kind of explore to see, will they talk to you?
And so what's your name?
Do they ask you questions?
Where are you from?
And then you don't have to ask very many questions before you get into people's dreams and fears and hurts and worries.
And then once you've tapped into that layer of the conversation, well, then there's gospel opportunities there.
(26:59):
I'm very aware that we need to not only be strategic and intentional, as you've mentioned, but we also need to have a deep care for people rather than just seeing them as a project, as someone who needs to be won over.
Can you talk to me a little bit about that?
How do we get the perspective right?
(27:19):
That yes, we want people to come to know Jesus, but we need it to be an authentic relationship with the people that we're interacting with.
Thank you for bringing that up.
That is important.
It is having a love for people and a curiosity for people and interest in people.
I mean, they're made in the image of God.
And so we're inherently valuable.
(27:42):
And so wanting to discover like who these people are.
And that's why I think it starts with our relationship with Jesus, because that's what fuels our love for others.
The other thing that comes to mind is just long suffering.
Most people don't go from like, hello, my name is to growing followers of Jesus.
(28:05):
It's usually a long story of one step forward and 10 steps back.
That's true in my life.
And that's what I've seen to be true in the lives of other people.
And so it's really a long suffering love for people that will give us that perseverance and that endurance to want to keep pressing forward.
(28:26):
And I think what probably keeps me coming back is I never know, there's endless possibilities of what the Lord can do in the life of somebody.
It's what he did in my life.
I was the last person that you would have thought is going to come to faith in Jesus.
I did not make it easy.
I was argumentative.
I was difficult.
And yet the Lord changed my life.
(28:48):
And so that means there's just limitless possibilities or we have no idea where he could move, how he could move.
And that's what keeps me coming back to it.
I just think that's really exciting.
Michael, we've talked a lot about your comedy, but we haven't actually heard it.
So therefore, if people are wanting to hear you perform some of your comedy or see some of your sets, is there some way they can go online and catch up with a set or two?
(29:13):
The easiest way would be Michael Dennis comedy on Instagram.
I try to put clips here and there on there because they're not only people looking at that page to hear something possibly that could be funny, but other followers of Jesus have just been really supportive and they're following along just out of curiosity and excitement and support.
(29:36):
It's been fun to share that story with them as well.
I will make sure to put a link in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you easily and connect with you and your comedy event.
Michael, I want to say thank you so much for spending some time with us today on Bleeding Daylight.
And I love the title.
(29:57):
I love the concept of pushing back darkness and I love the investment to want to just raise the temperature on this conversation.
And so thank you for the work that you're doing.
Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight.
Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others.
For further details and more episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net.
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