Season 2 - Episode 10: Looking Beyond Eyesight Featuring Dr. Hoby Wedler & Jackie Summers - Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R.

Episode Transcript
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Steph (00:15):
Welcome back to another edition of Bold Blind Beauty On
A.I.R.
Podcast, the show that'sclearing the air for more A.I.R.
(Access, Inclusion, andRepresentation).
I'm Stephanae McCoy and with meon my co-hosts, I'm Nasreen
Bhutta and Sylvia Stinson Perez.

(00:38):
For November's podcast, we arepositively stoked to talk to two
amazing people.
We've titled this episodeLooking Beyond Eyesight, which
we feel is so appropriate giventhe story we're about to share
with you.
I met Dr.
Hoby Wedler, a blind chemistthrough a PR firm that

(00:58):
recommended him as a Man InMotion feature on Bold Blind
Beauty.
After reading that in 2012, hewas one of President Barack
Obama's Champions of Change.
Then later he landed on Forbes30 under 30, presented a TED
Talk on Sensory Literacy, and in2021 was on the Wine Enthusiast

(01:21):
"40 under 40 Taste Makers" I wassmitten.
If this weren't enough, learningabout Jackie Summers and Hoby
and how they connected, I wasover the moon.
Jackie is the first legal blackdistiller in the US and the
founder of Sorel, the mostawarded liqueur of 2022.

(01:43):
Earlier this year, he hired Dr.
Wedler or Hoby as he likes to becalled to help scale the
production of Sorel whilemaintaining quality and
improving the formula.
Gentlemen, it is so awesome tohave the two of you here today
with Nasreen, Sylvia and I onBold Blind Beauty On A.I.R.

Jackie (02:05):
It's an honor to be here.
Thank you so much.

Hoby (02:09):
Thank you so much.
It's an absolute pleasure to behere with all, and, and share
this room with with all of you,each and every one of you.

Steph (02:16):
Thank you, Hoby.
So we're gonna hop right intothe questions.
The first question is for bothof you, and we're just dying to
know how in the world did thefirst legal black distiller in
the US and a blind chemist beginworking together?
How did that happen?

Jackie (02:35):
You wanna handle that one Hoby or do you want me to do
this?

Hoby (02:37):
Oh, I'll, I'll take a stab at it, but I'm sure I'm not
gonna get everything right.
Okay.

Jackie (02:41):
Knock it out.

Hoby (02:42):
So Jackie and I have a common care and belief and
desire to make the world a moreaccessible and inclusive place
for everyone and to helpmarginalized people every step
of the way.
And we were very fortunate to betogether.
I was a guest and a panelist,and Jackie was the chair of a

(03:04):
panel with a group basicallypromoting diversity, equity, and
inclusion in the wine andspirits industry.
Great group.
A woman by the name of Renabrought us together to to have,
have a discussion about, youknow, what it's like working in
the hospitality industry as wellas in the production industry.
We hit it off real well there.
Jackie was amazing.

(03:24):
He's the only person who'sgotten on a call with me to get
to know me and, and told me atthe end of the call, Hey, I had
a blindfold on that whole timeto live the call, kind of
through your experience.
I did not know this, and I justwas tickled at the time.
And we hit it off real wellthen.
And then Jackie was in, inPetaluma with his partner, which
is my hometown, and invited meto meet.

(03:46):
We had an incredible meeting,had had lunch and had a good
conversation about what we bothdo.
I talked to him about some of mypast projects, like, you know,
making spice blends and a lot ofmy work in the food science
world.
And about three months went byand, and he gave me a call and
said, Hey, If you wanna thinkabout working together?
and I said, My goodness, I neverdreamed of working with someone

(04:07):
as as awesome as you and let'ssee what we can do.
That's my side of the story.
Jackie, what's your side of thestory?
So it is very, very similar towhat Hoby said.
I was doing work on diversity,equity, and inclusion in the
hospitality space.
And specifically I was trying toaddress.
The fact that diversity is notjust a racial issue.

(04:30):
As a black person, I havesuffered a significant amount of
discrimination in the industry,but I have to move through the
world with the awareness thatI've got tremendous privilege,
I've got able bodied privilege,I've got male privilege, I have
got English speaking privilege,and I have found in these
conversations in a general, thatthe conversation about diversity

(04:54):
gets limited to race.
We don't talk about ageism, wedon't talk about ableism.
We don't talk about some of theother things that are actually
much, much bigger problems.
There are, I, I think it'sarguable to say and Hoby you
can, you can correct me on this,but the most discriminated group
on the planet is people who aresuffering with disabilities.
Second only to that is peoplewho are older.

(05:15):
I felt this was worthaddressing.
Hoby is a fantastic speaker.
He's articulate, he'spassionate.
He's incredibly well-informed.
Listening to Hoby talk aboutthese things with just grace and
dignity makes everyone want tobe a better person.
It makes me want to be a betterperson.
So when the opportunity toactually engage his services

(05:38):
professionally as a chemist wasopened up, I honestly couldn't
wait to get him on board.
And his contribution has beenconsistently fantastic, both
from a professional perspectiveand the dynamic he adds to our
group.
Thank you so much for sayingthat Jackie, and it's, it's
mutual.
I mean, the, the group is, isincredible and, and you are

(06:01):
truly a, a an incredible leader.
And I guess I should share thatI've been blind since birth
myself.
And yeah, it's just, it bringsit all together and we all, what
we realize when we think aboutdiversity in the way that Jackie
just, just discussed, werealized that we all can support
each other and help each otherin.
In so many ways, and it's reallybeen an incredible journey

(06:22):
working with Jackie.
And we're just at the beginningof the, of the journey and
we're, we're gonna continue thisand keep building and keep
having some really excitingconversations and, and doing,
doing work together.
So we're We're excited.

Sylvia (06:36):
Hoby and Jackie I will say that I'm thrilled to have
y'all on and I love me somewines and some liqueur, so it'll
be especially fun to chat withy'all.
I think it's so interesting,Jackie, that you talked about,
even though we all havechallenges recognizing our
privileges as well, and we, weactually talked about that on
our last podcast, which I hopeeveryone will check out, but

(06:58):
Hoby tell us more about yourjourney with a real specific
emphasis on the blindness partof that, because, so, you know,
our listeners join us and eachone of us have such a unique
journey as people who are blind.
And so let's hear about yours,your life journey.

Hoby (07:16):
You know, mine is, is the way it is because my parents, my
parents are two truly amazingrole models and they did a lot
of wonderful things for me andmy sighted brother.
But I'll focus on two of themhere.
The first is they taught us tohave extremely high expectations
of ourselves, and they wanted usto have high expectations of
them in return.

(07:37):
So having a parent say, Hey, youneed to get up and clean your
room.
You know you need to do yourchores.
We may have had different choresthan one another, my brother and
me, but we, we had the same, wewere held to the same high
standards.
And the second thing they didfor us is they told us anytime
we, you know, we, we wanted areminder or anytime they thought

(07:57):
of it, that our lives were ourlives to live and we needed to
take responsibility forourselves in everything that we
do.
So I knew that no one was gonnado it for me and my love
appreciation for the foodindustry actually began when I
was young, when I was in myparents' kitchen before I was a
teenager.
I think my first birthday gift Ican remember I was 10 years old

(08:21):
and they, well, maybe eightyears old.
And, and the gift was a 42 quartsoup stockpot.
And my, one of my jobs was tomake large pots of soup that my
parents would freeze.
In small aquas and, and take towork as, as part of their lunch.
When I was working in thekitchen, I didn't realize that I
was learning at such a young agehow flavors mixed together and

(08:43):
how when you put onions andcarrots and celery together in a
Mirepoix, in a soup, The flavorsof all three are necessary to
give that quality of, of, ofsweetness and savory.
When you add mushrooms tosomething, the earthiness that
comes out, what split peas do,what a little tiny bit of masa
does to chili.

(09:04):
I learned how to blend flavorsand how flavors work together.
And I think I was nine years oldwhen I added Parmesan cheese
rind to minestrone soup for thefirst time and realized that
there's no better way to addthat true Italian rusticness to
minestrone But for adding the,the rind of Parmesan cheese and

(09:25):
letting it soften in the soup.
And then of course you take itout when you're When you're
through cooking, but it adds somuch flavor.
The point is here, I learnedthat I experienced art through
the way that I taste and smellthe world and the way that I
taste and smell food.
Growing up in Sonoma County,California, which is in wine
country.

(09:46):
My parents were never involvedin the wine industry, per se.
They were home wine makersbefore I was born.
They lived in the area and youknow, I, I love the fact that
grapes were basically beinggrown in my backyard and shipped
around the world as wine.
And something as humble as agrape could be transformed into
something as brilliantly complexas a glass of wine.

(10:07):
That's where I fell in love withchemistry and with understanding
how atoms and atoms fit togetherto form molecules and how those
molecules fit together to formflavor.
And I didn't think I wanted tobe a, a flavor scientist and use
my chemistry in the kitchen, soto speak.
I thought I wanted to teachchemistry.
It was interesting because whenI was in high school, in honors

(10:28):
chemistry, I had a, a wonderfulinstructor who would, she was so
twofold, you know, in one sense,she would motivate all of the
class publicly that chemistry iswhat we eat, it's what we drink,
we live it, we walk it, it'severything that we interact
with.
The physicists, no doubt arguedwith her, but that's what she
thought and we adopted it.
So I would, you know, and shewould say, Don't think of

(10:49):
chemistry as a prerequisite thatyou can't, you know, that you,
it's just this boring class youhave to get through, think of
chemistry as more exciting thanthat and, and think about
studying chemistry over time.
And I took her to heart andsaid, This is really exciting.
I love chemistry.
I'm kind of have a natural wayof thinking about it and I would
love to continue studying itlong in the future.

(11:10):
And I went to her and I said,Hey, I wanna, I wanna study
chemistry.
And she said to me, Oh, Hoby,you know, I, I think it's great
that.
You know, tenacious and excitedabout this, but you're, you
can't see.
And, and I think it's gonna betoo impractical for you.
And I thought about it and Ithought, and I said, There's
gotta be a way that I canconvince this instructor that
chemistry does make sense forme.
And I remember it to this day.

(11:32):
I approached her, it was thesecond week of the second
semester.
It was a cold January morning.
I went into her classroom beforeany other students were there
about 7:30 in the morningcause Iwanted to get some alone time
with her.
And I was in her honorschemistry class at this point,
walked in and I said, You know,I understand that you think
chemistry is not very practicalfor a blind person to study, but

(11:54):
I gotta tell you, nobody can seeatoms.
And therefore chemistry is acerebral science.
And she was from that pointforward 100% an ally.
She said, You know what?
You're right.
We can't see atoms.
We, we can't see this stuff.
This is all stuff that's in ourmind.
And it is something we thinkabout.
So one thing led to another, Ithought I wanted to teach

(12:14):
freshman chemistry.
In college, I wanted to getstudents excited about something
that they thought was totallyboring and just a prerequisite
at 8:00 AM on a Monday morningafter a long weekend of
partying.
And I had the opportunity andthe honor of teaching several
chemistry courses while I was ingraduate school.
And what I realized, Is that Ilove teaching and I love the
students, but I thought aboutchemistry and I could explain it

(12:37):
to them with a PowerPoint theway that I thought about it,
which is in words, but mystudents didn't like to speak
chemistry.
They wanted video animations andpictures and all these things,
and ultimately, while, studyingchemistry in graduate school, I,
I got excited about the food andbeverage industry through a

(12:57):
program I founded called Tastingin the Dark, which is a truly
blindfolded experience thatstarted in the wine industry and
now is used for all sorts offoods and beverages.
That's what got me into the, thefields of sensory design, which
is designing products and foodand beverage products, but also
products in the tech industryoutside food and beverage.
That need a little sense of, ofnon-visual design.

(13:20):
So much of, of the design workthat people do is visual is
sighted, and they don't thinkabout what does it feel like,
what does the packaging feellike, what does the product
smell like, You know, all thesethings.
But food and beverage is reallymy, my bread and butter and
meeting Jackie and, and steppinginto the distillery and really
rethinking Sorel, which anamazing beverage and a very

(13:42):
complex beverage because weneeded to maintain visual
clarity at, while at the sametime tasting delicious.
And we use a lot of naturalingredients in Sorel.
We literally use botanicals thatwe brew into a tea.
So there's so much that goesinto making that beverage.
Jackie did all the hard work tofigure out how to make the
beverage shelf stable.

(14:04):
But then when we try to scale itup and make a lot of it at once,
there's so many things that haveto be considered.
And I was able to pair my lovefor chemistry with my love for
people and my love for anamazing story.
And that's why I'm just sobeyond honored and excited to be
a small part of, of Jackie'sgreat team as we, as we build

(14:24):
out this product and you know,work together on this and, and
continue building.
And I'm just, I'm just soexcited to just be.
Hopefully, hopefully enjoyableperson and, and someone who
loves life, who kind of happensto be blind.
That's how I view it.

Sylvia (14:39):
Hoby, that is just fascinating.
I mean, we're, we're alsogetting a little cooking lesson
here, but I have to tell youy'all, y'all started off talking
about diversity, equity, andinclusion, and as you were
talking about making that soup,you do you know that all of
these.
Analogies related to diversitywere just flowing through my

(14:59):
mind about how the combinationof all of those things are, All
of us makes beautiful things.
And so how fascinating.
And, and just interesting.
Thank you.

Hoby (15:11):
That's such an interesting take on that, that soup and
cooking diversity.
And, you know, I want to, I wantto just riff on that for a
minute.
I don't mean to over overstay mywelcome here, but one of the
things that I'll just share withyou, Sorel is a blend of five
botanicals.
Mm-hmm.
and each of those botanicals onits own is, and, and Jackie, I

(15:31):
think you'd agree with me here,kind of underwhelming when you
drink a tea of any one of thebotanicals at the ratio that we
use them in.
They taste fine.
They taste kind of onedimensional like that one
botanical.
But my goodness, when we blendthese five things together in
Sorel, five parts together,create a whole that is so much

(15:56):
bigger than either of the partscould be on its own.
They become a symphony of flavorthat is nothing short of
beautiful.
They become, I mean, you blendfive weird, unique botanicals
together and you get like 500different aromas, quite
literally, and flavors andtextures that pop out.

(16:16):
But when you taste thebotanicals by themselves,
they're, they're kinda onedimensional.
And this is the story, Jackie, Idon't know if you know this yet,
but this is a story that I usewhen I talk about diversity is,
When we blend all types ofpeople and all types of flavors,
we get something that is so muchbigger than any one of us in a

(16:36):
closed minded and encapsulatedatmosphere.

Jackie (16:40):
I would agree with that entirely.
And I'll, I'm also gonna speakvery briefly here to the immense
amount of modesty that Hoby isdisplaying.
I did, I did perfect the shelfsimple version of Sorel in my
kitchen.
But I am by no means a foodscientist.
I'm just nerdy and persistent.

(17:01):
It took me 624 tries in mykitchen to get a shelf stable
version.
But what Hoby has done with theactual production version, the
recipe that we have beenbottling since 2012.
What he's done in the last ninemonths is remarkable.
He has, through his knowledge oforganic chemistry and his
heightened level of senses, notonly made the product easier to

(17:25):
make and more scalable, buttaste better and be less
expensive.
Because he actually understandsthe science of, of what we are
doing.
It's really interesting for mebecause I know this is a
beverage, that's been around forat least 500 years, but no one's
ever looked at it on a molecularlevel and gone, What the hell is

(17:47):
going on here when we make this?
Hoby has, I believe, veryquickly become one of the
country's foremost experts onhibiscus.
Which is notoriously difficultto work with, but the strides
we've made and continue to makein our production process is
what actually lets us grow at anincredible rate.

Hoby (18:11):
Thank you, Jackie.
Well, you're an, an incrediblymodest guy too.
Jackie's done a ton of work andjust made this industry come to
life and, and un allowed peopleall around the, the industry
that we're both blessed to be apart of understand that, you
know, you don't have to be awhite male to own Spirit's brand
or own a liqueur brand.

(18:31):
You can be anyone and you canhave a team around you that's
made up of a wide variety of, ofdiverse populations.
And we, I think, I don't knowJackie, but I think we kind of
solve problems better because weall come from different
backgrounds.

Jackie (18:49):
I, I, again, I agree with you a hundred percent, but
you know, there, there's,there's a joke in here that,
that is relevant.
Hoby convinced his professor totake his love of chemistry
seriously, because as in his ownwords, you can't see atoms, but
I, the joke I've heard Hoby tellin the distillery is he can see

(19:09):
flavor.
And I believe him.
I believe that when Hoby tastessomething, he's experiencing
something in a whole way that Idon't actually have the, the
capacity to perceive.
So I'm always going to def deferto both his expertise as a
chemist and his expertise as a,someone with a, an advanced

(19:31):
pallet to see what helps me makethe product better because he's
doing things that I, Iabsolutely could not do.

Sylvia (19:39):
I heard one other big nugget that I just wanna point
out, so the diversity of theteam working together, but I
also heard persistence.
And Jackie, I heard you say thatyou tried something over 600
times until you got it right.
And that persistence part isimportant.

(19:59):
And, and, and sometimes whenwe're, when we're developing
teams and developing whateverwe're developing, You know,
using that, the strengths ofeveryone, but the persistence in
that.
And so just wanted to point thatout.
And I'm gonna throw to Nasreen,cuz I know she's got a question

Nasreen (20:15):
Yeah.
First of all, this is anremarkable and incredible story
guys.
I love the insights Hoby, thatyou provided.
I just love how you, yourdetermination, your tenacity,
how you were able to put allthat together and convince you
know, your teacher that was a.
Sort of observation that youmade for her and Sylvia's
absolutely right.
It's about perception andchanging perceptions and I love

(20:36):
that.
And Jackie, you know, it'sfantastic how you are
understanding how Hoby istapping into his senses.
Cause sometimes when you haveone sense that is not working,
the sharpest, all the othersenses do make up for or come
together to help elevate andbalance out all your senses.
But Jackie, I wanna turn myattention to you for a minute

(20:57):
and I wanna ask you, Can youshare some of your background
and how you got into thedistillery business?

Jackie (21:05):
So I, unlike Dr.
Wedler, am unlettered I wassomeone who enjoyed drinking a
beverage from my heritage.
My grandparents came from theCaribbean and my grandfather
died in Merrick, came fromBarbados, and he was a trained
chef.
He taught my mom, and my momtaught me.
So I grew up with a version of adrink called Sorl.

(21:27):
In my kitchen from the time Iwas a small child, I made a
version as an adult for friendsand family at parties and
barbecues and didn't think twiceabout it.
And then 12 years ago, I had acancer scare.
My doctor found a tumor insidemy spine the size of a golf
ball, and he said, You'reprobably going to die.

(21:47):
And if you live, you might beparalyzed.
You should organize yourpaperwork.
Short version is I lived but itwill adjust your perspective
permanently.
I had a chance to think aboutwhat was important to me in
life.
I had 25 years invested incorporate America, but what I
really want to do is day drink.

(22:09):
I want to hang out with cool asspeople in the middle of the day,
in the middle of the week.
I wanna talk shit over good foodand booze, and I wanted to
monetize it when I couldn'tthink who was going to pay me to
enjoy that lifestyle.
I launched my liquor brand and Ididn't know at the time, I did
not know when I got my licenseto make liquor in 2012 that I

(22:29):
was the only black person in theentire country that had a
license to make liquor.
I didn't know I was the firstperson post-prohibition.
I have battled systemicimpediments.
And I think it's important torecognize that the, the
obstacles are systemic becausesystems are created and

(22:52):
maintained by people, whichmeans people at any point can
decide to change them if they'reso inclined.
I spent many years inhospitality teaching and writing
about systemic oppress.
And for many years I taught aseminar called How to Build a
Longer Table with the idea thatif the people who were already

(23:16):
seated at the table justextended it a little bit more to
folks like Hoby, to folks likemyself, it would benefit
everyone.
And while that seminar waspassionate and intelligent and
full of sound and fury, it madevery little difference.
I started to teach a differentseminar called How to Build Your
Own Table, because it is easierto build it without

(23:41):
discrimination from the groundup than to try to convince
people who were already sittingat a table where discrimination
is built into the fabric of howthey work to change.
So I love the fact that I get tobuild a table that is exactly
what we talked about in ourseminars for years.

(24:01):
We have people of diversebackgrounds of all kinds, and we
are trying to really put, showthe world that everything's
better when you're lessprejudiced.

Nasreen (24:16):
Absolutely.
I love that.
Build Your Own Table, Jackie.
Breaking down the systemicbarriers and being more open
minded, and I think both of youtoday have kind of shared,
shared values and experiences ofyour own systemic barriers that
you've had to conquer.
And so I really appreciate yousharing that.
Thank you so much.
Sylvia.

Sylvia (24:37):
I think we would all agree.
We wanna pull up to that tableand sit with y'all a little
while.
So, And, and I want a glass ofSorel to sip on wall.
Yeah, right.
Let's, let's do it.
Hoby give us a little crashcourse in what is sensory
literacy?
This is just so, that's such afascinating conversation As a

(24:58):
person who loves to cook andmake food and, and just all of
that, what is sensory literacy?

Hoby (25:06):
I wanna tell you a story if I may, many years ago.
I was in, near my hometown, inmy home county of Sonoma County
near my hometown of Petaluma,California.
Let me tell you a little bitabout Petaluma.
It's a, a wonderful place.
I, I'm biased of course, becauseI grew up there.
It's about 20 miles.

(25:26):
Its 18 miles as the crow fliesfrom the coast.
From the Pacific Coast.
It's about 45 miles directlynorth of the Golden Gate Bridge.
And we have very oftentimes,very foggy mornings and sunny
afternoons, and the fog bringswith it a layer of moisture by
virtue of being fog.

(25:46):
And we have a lot of agricultureand a lot of pastures that raise
livestock.
We also grow a lot of grapes andhave a lot of crops in the area,
but one of things that's sospecial is the melting pot and
frankly, the diversity of aromain Petaluma.
So I was with a group of friendsafter high school, bunch of,

(26:10):
bunch of friends from, from myup, my childhood, and we drove
up on a hill called Wilson Hillat the very southern end of
Sonoma County, about five milesoutside of Petaluma.
And we parked and got out ofthe.
When we stood on BeautifulGrass, it was early spring, I

(26:31):
think it was maybe, I don'tknow, March 20 something.
It was, it was the very end ofMarch.
We stood there.
The grass beneath our feet feltcool.
I even took my shoes off to tofeel how it really felt under my
feet.
It was wet.
It was bordering on cold.
The ground gave a little bit.

(26:52):
You could feel it give as it'ssoft from the recent rains that
fell on the late winter rainsthat fell on the soil.
The fog was thick in the morningand you could feel it on your
face.
This viscosity of fog, thethickness of air mixed with
water and I thought about what Iwas experiencing, you could hear

(27:18):
the birds chirping in thedistance.
Cows mooing in pastures severalhundred feet away, the smells of
bayit trees, redwoods, and cowmanure, mingled with fresh cut
grass and herbaceous notes andtwines of air from the coast to

(27:39):
create an aromatic symphony thatwas so diverse.
And nothing short of beautiful.
My friends stood on that hillwith me and distracted me by
talking about what they saw,describing what the color green
looked like to them.

(27:59):
And to be frank, I didn't carewhat the color green looked like
at the time.
I was so engrossed in thenon-visual experience that I was
having that the color didn'tmatter to me and we got back in
the car.
And people were stilldescribing, Oh, I could look
down off the hill and see theSan Francisco or the San Pablo

(28:22):
Bay.
I could see cows and sheeprunning in pastures on farms in
the distance.
Oh, Hoby, let me describe to youwhat a live oak looks like.
And I let them describe thesethings to me.
And I said, Can I describe myexperience?
And I told them what I just toldyou, and they were struck.

(28:43):
They were silent.
I said, What's wrong?
Why are you guys silent?
They said, That's weird.
That's crazy.
Like you took in all thatinformation from that area.
We were so focused on oureyesight that we didn't notice
any of that.
And what my message here is ifyou have eyesight, which people
who have used to obtain 85 to90% of the information from

(29:07):
their surroundings, but allmeans use your eyesight.
But don't forget about thoseother senses and don't use your
eyesight so much that itdistracts your other senses from
perceiving the world.
I'm sensory literacy in short isa way of using all five of our

(29:30):
senses to take in oursurroundings, to take in the
world around us, and then useour mind to think about what we
take in and, and how we canbuild on those senses.
And, and let yourself live aricher life based on what those
experiences bring in.

(29:52):
And this is not just somethingthat we blind people can do.
My friends, this is somethingeveryone can do if you allow
your mind to focus on yoursurroundings as you, as you go
about your, your life and youryour daily activities.
I'm staying right now with adear friend on a beautiful lake

(30:13):
in Tennessee.
He was generous enough to, toshare his property with us, and
he and I sat down on the dock afew days.
Just listening around sunriseand he truly gets, He's a
sighted guy who truly getssensory literacy and understands
how we can take in so muchinformation beyond our eyesight

(30:34):
and kind of explain to me whathe saw and then related it.
To how we might experience itwithout eyesight, and finding
friends like this and people youcan learn from is such an
important thing.
Who can also learn from you andbuild an experience around
taking in everything there is totake in from the smells, to the

(30:57):
sounds, to the textures, to thevisuals that you might have.
They're all valuable and that ismy, perhaps feeble way of
describing sensory literacy.
I hope that's suffices.

Sylvia (31:11):
Hoby.
I had an epiphany moment whileyou were talking.
In all honesty, I thinkoftentimes as people who are
blind, we think of what we'remissing, and you just put that
in such great context.
Context of we're not missing, weactually are probably
experiencing much more thansomeone who's just focused on

(31:33):
what they're seeing, so thankyou for that.

Hoby (31:36):
You're so welcome.
And our, our, our apparent lackof eyesight and lack of taking
in information in the world isjust apparent.
It's not actual.
And when we look at othergroups, not just us, and how
much, maybe people who arenonverbal, maybe people who are
in wheelchairs, what are theytaking in from the world that

(32:00):
we're not?
By just steamrolling over theground and walking wherever we
need to go.
Jackie and I have a friend incommon, Yannick Benjamin, who
just earned his first Michelinstar for his restaurant called,
Contento in the har in up up thenorthern part of Manhattan in
New York.
And Yannick is in a wheelchair.
Yannick and I were talkingactually when we happened to be

(32:22):
together in Verona, Italy, thisApril.
About our life experiences andwe realized how much we each
took in that was different thanthe other.
And how kinda complimentary thatwas.

Nasreen (32:36):
And that's a good point, Hoby, because everyone's
shared experiences or everyone'sshared viewpoint is very
different.
The perceptions are different.
No two people can see orperceive the same way.
Jackie,

Jackie (32:50):
Yes,

Nasreen (32:52):
I was gonna ask you.
Winning the most awarded liquorof 2022.
Sounds very exciting.
Can you tell us how winning thisaward made you feel?
And what's next for Sorel?
And I need ask, what does Sorelmean?
Where did you come up with that?

Jackie (33:11):
So before I get into the questions, I'm gonna share an
experience Hoby and I had in thedistillery last week.
Sure.
One of the key elements of Sorelis visual.
It is a bright magenta garnetcolor, which is a challenge that
we face in the distillery tomaintain that color.

(33:31):
Over the course of time.
Hoby and I were in thedistillery last week going with
samples, and I mentioned.
One of the samples was more of.
Rust brown than an actual brightbright garnet.
And he asked me to explain it.
And so I asked permission tohold his hand, and I held his

(33:51):
hand firmly for a couple ofmoments and let my touch warm
his skin.
This is brown.
I said, It's warm, it'scomforting.
Then I took the same hand and Itook my knuckles and rubbed
against his forearm for three orfour seconds.
You could see he could feel theirritation.
This is, This is Garnet.

(34:12):
This is a bright red, and thisis part of how I'm trying to
work on my ableism.
I'm trying to, See and expressthings in a way that aren't
limited to sight.
And I appreciate Hoby's patiencewith me as we go through this.

Hoby (34:28):
Jackie, that was, that was an incredible moment because
nobody has ever described colorthat way.
And it finally made sense.
It finally made sense that Brownwas sort of, that, that feeling
of pressure that we all like,that's kind of just light
pressure.
Comforting and warm.
And then Garnet, is that sort ofreally, really vibrant.

(34:49):
It's like almost neon in a way.
It's like, like a high pitchsound, you know?
I got that from you.
Well, and I need to say oneother thing about Jackie, and
this just shows histhoughtfulness and, and
considerate nature.
Let me, when we started talkingabout working together, I said,
I need to taste what, what'scurrently happening with Sorel
hadn't tasted it yet.

(35:10):
He sent me a bottle of Sorelwith a card, a thick card, stock
card, much like Braille paper,which he took a tack and looked
online at the braille code andliterally brailed me a note that
I could read fluently.
And we got on our first call totaste the product together.

(35:32):
And he says to me, how'd youlike my handwriting?
No, anyone sighted or blindwho's done that for me, and that
just expresses who Jackie is tome and, and to so many of us.
I,

Jackie (35:47):
I, I just, I just wanna say that writing in braille is
really hard.
It took, it took many, manytries to get it right, but if
you're not willing to make theeffort, then you have to really
ask yourself why.

Nasreen (36:00):
But Jackie, Yeah.
Tell us a little bit more aboutyour award.

Jackie (36:02):
I will tell you that we did win just a slew of awards
for Sorel this year.
But I will say that again,there's privilege built into
that.
We entered a bunch of contests.
All of the contests cost money.
For the first time in a 10 yearcareer doing this, I can
actually afford to enter thecontests.

(36:23):
Now, entering the contest beginto afford to enter them does not
guarantee an award, but there'sdefinitely a level of class
privilege built in to being ableto.
35 different contests verifiesRI is delicious because we could
afford to enter.
I didn't have that abilitybefore.
That said, what's reallyvalidating?

(36:47):
It's great for my distributors,it's great for consumers to see
that there's, there's confidencein the beverage, but what's
really validating is when peoplewho grew up with this beverage
who, whose grandmothers made itin their kitchen, when they
taste it and go, This tasteslike home.
That is incredibly validating.
It's, it is it is audacious Totake a beverage from a

(37:09):
community, from a, a group ofpeople and say, I'm going to
present a representation of thisto the world.
There's a lot of pressure tomake sure that it is not just
the right story, but the righttaste.
So yes, I am very, very gratefulfor the awards and I believe it

(37:29):
will help us actually reallyprove to the consumers.
The product is just one of thebest on the market, but more
than that, I'm grateful for theopportunity to tell this story
and the validation that comesfrom the people who are familiar
with the beverage.

Nasreen (37:44):
What does the company Sorel stand for?

Jackie (37:46):
Oh, this is this, this is a good question.
If you go to the Caribbean andyou try, you have this beverage,
they call it Sorrell, S O R R EL.
It's based on the sorrelhibiscus flower.
I have a speech impediment.
I can't pronounce the letter R.
So for me, trying to say sorrelis like trying to say rural or

(38:06):
terror.
It's an awful word, but I hadeight years of enunciation class
in public school.
Other kids got to go play.
I saw a speech pathologist, andhere's one of the things that I
learned.
Words that end in a down soundare sad.
Sorrel is a sad word.

(38:29):
Sorel is happy and I canpronounce it so it's literally
called Sorel so I don't soundlike a dumb ass happy than to be
sad.
Thank you, Thank you guys.
Steph.

Steph (38:43):
You know what?
I don't want this conversationto end.
You're demonstrating to theworld what is possible.
Once we open our minds and weare willing to take the chance
to be more accepting, we can doanything.
So with that, I'm going to askhow can our listeners connect

(39:07):
with the two of you?

Hoby (39:10):
I think we're both widely available online.
My website is hobywedler.com.
I am Hoby Wedler at all the, allthe social media channels as so
reach out on the website, reachout on on social media.
Or just email me.
I'm hoby@hobywedler.com, H O B YH O B Y W E D L E R.com.

(39:32):
And the most important thing tome is that every one of you
listeners has an open and anabundant mindset.
And the idea.
That nothing should stop youfrom doing what you wanna do.
And no, I want nobody to be astranger.
If there's anything I can do foranyone, reach out, because I'm

(39:54):
always up for a conversation.

Jackie (39:57):
Don't you love listening, Hoby?
I mean, couldn't you just listento him all all day?
You can find me atsorelofficial.com.
It's also Sorel Official onsocial media, but if you're
looking for me personally,Jackie Summers is who I am.
I'm easy to find.
The IG is theliquortarian.
L I Q U O R T A R I A N.

(40:19):
It's my mom's word cuz shedidn't like calling her kids
alcoholics.

Sylvia (40:23):
Where can we find this product?

Hoby (40:25):
That's a good question.

Jackie (40:26):
It's in about 20 states right now, but if it's not in
your state yet, reservebard.comdelivers almost everywhere in
the, in the continental unitedStates.

Sylvia (40:36):
Cause I'm feeling like I gotta go get some, Don't y'all

Jackie (40:40):
We'll place examples of, of Dr.
Dr.
Wedler's exemplary work if youdo

Hoby (40:46):
Yes, and, and Jackie's exemplary, exemplary work.
It's just fun.

Steph (40:51):
Thank you so much, gentlemen.

Nasreen (40:58):
Thank you for listening to The Beauty On Air podcast
with your host, Stephanie McCoy,Nore Budda, Sylvia Perez.
Subscribe to our podcast oniTunes, Google Play, or your
favorite podcast platform, andto watch out for our next
monthly episode.

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Season 2 - Episode 10: Looking Beyond Eyesight Featuring Dr. Hoby Wedler & Jackie Summers

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Season 2 - Episode 10: Looking Beyond Eyesight Featuring Dr. Hoby Wedler & Jackie Summers