March 25, 2025 • 32 mins
The world of planning is transforming at a rapid pace, and staying ahead requires more than just reacting to change—it demands foresight. In this conversation, we welcome back Petra Hurtado to discuss the American Planning Association's 2025 Trend Report, now in its fourth year of helping planners anticipate the forces reshaping our communities.
Petra highlights how "the only constant is accelerating change," explaining the sophisticated trend scouting process that brings diverse perspectives together to identify crucial developments across multiple fields. From technology to climate, work patterns to public spaces, the report categorizes trends into actionable timeframes: Act Now, Prepare, and Learn and Watch.
Ready to future-proof your planning approach? Download the complete 2025 Trend Report from APA's website and start incorporating these insights into your community's planning process today.
Show Notes:
- Check out the full report on APA’s website here.
- Trend Universe: https://planning.org/foresight/trends/
- Further Reading:
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Episode Transcript
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Stephanie Rouse (00:00):
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Join us as we get Booked onPlanning.
In this episode, we talk withPetra Hurtado about APA's 2025
(01:18):
trend report.
We've been covering the trendreport each year since it came
out and it's been interesting,this year especially, to start
to see the trends evolve andeither grow or fade into the
background.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:29):
I think this is the episode I look forward to
most each year.
The trend report is always sofascinating, and Petra makes the
point that now that the trendreport is in its fourth year, we
can really start trackingtimelines for these topics as
well.
Stephanie Rouse (01:43):
The timing of this episode works out really
well as we're about to head toAPA National, to the conference
in Denver this weekend, wherePetra and her team will be
talking about the trend reportand hosting learning labs For
all of our listeners headed tothe conference.
Make sure to check out thosesessions and since Jennifer and
I will also be there, we hope tosee you there.
Jennifer Hiatt (02:03):
Yes, we really look forward to seeing everyone
at the conference and hopefullywe can discuss the trends report
in person with some of ourlisteners.
Let's get into our conversationwith Petra Hurtado about the
APA 2025 trends report.
Stephanie Rouse (02:16):
Well, Petra, welcome back to Booked On
Planning.
We're happy to have you on totalk about APA's 2025 trend
report, now in its fourth year.
What are some of the biggestchanges that you've observed in
the trends?
Broken out into Act Now,Prepare and Learn and Watch over
the years.
Petra Hurtado (02:34):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
It's always a pleasure to talkwith you.
Well, you know, I would say, ingeneral, the only constant is
really accelerating change atthis point and things are just
really moving so fast, whichreally shows how important this
work really is and how importantit is to practice foresight.
But otherwise, I mean, there'sa risk to really, you know,
(02:56):
getting lost if you don't trackall of these trends.
Looking at tech trends, keepingtrack of all of the new
developments and especially theevolution of artificial
intelligence, is obviously a bigone here, and for us it really
is a reason why we started aplant tech advisory group.
That really helps us to do that, because there's just so much
(03:17):
going on and it's really easy tolose track there.
The other one, obviously, Ithink the elephant in every
conversation in the room at thispoint the political environment
right now.
Just looking at the last sixweeks, you know, essentially
turned out the whole worldupside down, which you know most
of the trends that we'retalking about in the trend
(03:39):
report are unchanged in thisrespect, but the way we have to
look at them might've changed inthe last six weeks.
So, yeah, it's really, I thinkthe big thing is really the pace
of change and how things evolve.
Jennifer Hiatt (03:55):
So Stephanie and I both watched the webcast that
you guys put out on the trendreport as well, and it was very
clear there that you use a trendscouting team to make sure you
have a diverse group ofperspectives.
So I was wondering how you putthat team together and how do
you decide what goes into thereport, as you guys are working
as a team.
Petra Hurtado (04:14):
Yeah, so the trend scout community has really
evolved over the last fouryears and we really originally
started out with leaders fromour APA divisions, so planners
from different planning fields.
But we very soon realized inthis work, doing foresight, we
really need to look outside ofthe box.
So in this case, really lookingoutside of the planner's box
(04:36):
and so we started expanding thisgroup in the second year really
to different professions, alsoincluding people from outside of
the US and especially alsoincluding younger people to get
really the future at the tablewhen we talk about the future.
And so how are we doing that?
So to some part we do activerecruiting really, you know,
(04:57):
identifying the gaps of likewhat is a topic where we see a
lot of emerging trends, but wedon't really have an expert in
that field in the group.
So we really go into LinkedInand other places to find those
experts through networking atdifferent conferences in the US
and in other places in the world.
We also get a lot ofrecommendations of trend scouts
(05:17):
that tell us hey, I just had aconversation with this person
the other day and they reallyhave a lot to contribute on this
or that topic.
So then they recommend those tous and then sometimes just
people reach out to us peoplethat you know, for example, saw
that print report launch let'ssay, hey, I, you know, I think I
could also contribute to this.
And then you know, if we feellike they're a good fit, then we
(05:37):
usually include them as well.
So it's really a variety ofways on how we find these people
.
What is really great for us tosee is that we always feel like,
okay, you're giving so much tous.
There's so much input and value.
What can we give back?
But it seems like it's also alot of fun for them and value to
them to be part of this group,because there's just so much
(06:00):
knowledge flowing in themeetings that we have that
people really enjoy being there.
To your question in terms ofwhat goes into the report so
we're doing the trend scoutingreally year round.
So usually we already start anew list when we're still
working on the you know finaledits of the next trend report
and in many cases we end up witha list of over 500 different
(06:22):
topics.
Some of them are trends, someof them are observations, some
of them are opinions.
It's really a whole mix ofdifferent stuff.
So the first thing that we'reusually doing is verifying what
is a trend and what are thingsthat are valuable signals where
we feel like there's really ahigh chance that they could
become trends.
We use those, have another messylist with those and then we
(06:44):
obviously have to prioritize,and what we usually use are
three criteria.
One is the impact that a trendcould have in the future.
The second one is thepreparedness of planners, so
really bringing it down to theplanning profession and looking
at okay, do planners know how todeal with this or is this
something that we should reallyhighlight to create the
awareness about it?
(07:04):
And then the third one iscertainty.
How certain is it that eitherthis will have an impact or a
signal can become a trend?
How certain is that?
Stephanie Rouse (07:15):
And you mentioned about how the pace of
change is really what's becomingmore prominent, and especially
in tech, and AI is definitelyone of those.
I think, seeing from last trendreport to this trend report,
just the use and the explosionof AI has really rapidly
increased in just the past year.
It's being used in so manyfacets and has both amazing
(07:35):
potential as well as someserious environmental risks.
Can you discuss what you see asthe ideal path forward for AI
that balances both the risk andrewards?
Petra Hurtado (07:46):
I think that's really the million dollar
question of the time that we'reliving in, right, and if I had
an answer to it, I wouldprobably not sit here right now.
I think it's really thequestion that a lot of you know
decision makers, be it, you know, employers, but also
politicians and others aretrying to answer, because, on
(08:07):
the one hand, as you say,there's so many opportunities
that could come out of thistechnology Although we also need
to, you know, really lookcritically at it, because it all
depends on the data that feedsin, on how we interpret things,
how we use it.
But then it has so manynegative implications, as we
talked about this year in thetrend report.
When it comes to theenvironment, just the use of
(08:28):
energy and water to keep thesedata centers running, it's
literally insane, and the factthat we're actually doing this,
knowing that we have all theseissues such as climate change
and others that are just gettingexacerbated by this, is mind
boggling.
Change and others that are justgetting exacerbated by this is
mind-boggling.
(08:51):
But really finding a way tobalance the benefits with the
negative implications is hard todo when you don't really know
yet how far this technology canreally take us.
So you know.
In short, I really don't havean answer, as you can probably
see, but it's something that weneed to figure out.
Probably see, but it'ssomething that we need to figure
out, and I think one way to dothat is really to continue
tracking this evolution of thistechnology, educating ourselves
(09:12):
about it, really understandingwhat are the shortcomings of it
and what are the things that canbe really done with it, and
learning along the way and, yeah, I'm hopeful that, you know,
many decision makers are doingthat so that at some point, we
can figure out how to regulateit where it needs to be
regulated, where to give freedomto, you know, experiment where
(09:35):
it's ethically okay to do so.
Jennifer Hiatt (09:38):
Well, and speaking of climate change, of
course, another one of ourbiggest factors the trend report
mentions that it's leading tocascading impacts, especially
around wildfires.
So can you walk through theconcept of cascading impacts and
how planners need to startthinking about preventing these
cascading impacts?
Petra Hurtado (09:55):
Yeah, so we talked about the topic of
cascading impacts and cascadinghazards quite a bit at APA.
We also have a lot of resourceson this topic available.
But, simply put, it means thatnatural hazards don't happen in
isolation, right, and they canlead to additional issues down
the line.
And in this year's report, oneof our focus topics was really
(10:17):
the intersection of heat,drought, wildfires and air
pollution, which are allobviously very closely
interconnected, and we alsolooked at secondary impacts such
as threats to transportationnetworks.
So we mentioned the buckling ofrailway tracks that really
causes more and more issues withincreasing numbers of heat days
, the impacts on the energy grid, right, and then many other
(10:40):
infrastructure systems.
We also looked into topics suchas, you know, crop loss due to
drought, but also due toflooding.
So there are many impacts ormany different hazards involved
here.
One other one that might seem,you know, a little unrelated but
kind of fits into this topic aswell, is the questioning of
(11:00):
carbon offsets, which a lot ofyou know company have been using
as their green branding, wherethey really had to find, you
know, different places to offsetthe CO2 emissions that they're
creating.
And the question really thereis what happens if the forest
that was dedicated to yourcarbon offset suddenly burns
down in a wildfire, like how canthat still be a carbon offset?
(11:23):
It obviously is not, and sothere's a lot of questioning
around that topic.
But yeah, the main issue isreally that we are dealing with
so many different naturalhazards at this point and their
interconnection just reallybecome almost like a snowball
effect and have impacts on somany issues and so many systems
that we, as planners are really,you know, responsible for
(11:44):
working on planning for all ofthat.
Stephanie Rouse (11:47):
So one of the more fun and positive trends in
the report involves fungi andits amazing potential to help us
, which is ironic given one ofthe more popular recent TV shows
, the Last of Us, where fungidid the exact opposite.
So this is a learn and watchtrend.
So nothing imminent, but whatdo you see as one of their more
immediate applications?
Petra Hurtado (12:09):
So fungi in general have been essential to
human life for a long time,especially in the medical field.
They have been in use andobviously life-saving for many.
I think in our field there is alot of experimentation going on
right now, a lot of piloting,which is really why we kept it
in the learn and watch timeframe.
I would say it's reallyimportant for us to really learn
(12:32):
about these things and be awareof them, because I think
there's a lot of potential,especially when it comes to
building materials, but alsocreating materials that can
replace plastics.
So especially and that's mypersonal opinion I think the way
we use concrete as a, you know,construction material and the
way we use plastics in generalin our lives is just really
(12:54):
concerning, and my hope is thatyou know, with some of the
experiments that are going onright now with fungi, that we
can potentially find some moresustainable and environmentally
responsible solutions with fungito replace plastics and
concrete and some of these weirdpolluting materials.
Stephanie Rouse (13:14):
I was just listening to a 99% invisible
episode last night on my driveback from our conference and it
was talking about brutalistarchitecture and all the
concrete that goes into it andthey were saying how in the US I
think it was just the US, butthat the one thing we consume
more of than water, or the nextthing we consume the most of is
concrete and just how prevalentis everywhere and
(13:36):
environmentally not a greatmaterial to use so much of.
Petra Hurtado (13:40):
Absolutely, and I mean we mentioned another trend
, or actually two trends, lastyear.
There's obviously more interestnow also in mass timber, which
there's a lot of trial and errorright now happening as well.
One other one that I foundreally interesting is with the
technology of carbon capture.
There are experiments andpilots right now to actually
(14:00):
create building materials, suchas concrete, out of the carbon
capture technology.
So I think there is a lot ofinteresting stuff on the horizon
.
We'll see where that's going togo over the next years also,
especially considering thepolitical environment right now.
Jennifer Hiatt (14:17):
I appreciated the idea of the post-work era
and greeting someone with whatinterests them instead of what
do you do.
First question is who are you?
But your second is so what doyou do?
But more leisure time can havenegative impacts on local
communities.
So how should planners bethinking about protecting local
quality of life when so manybudgets depend on outside
(14:37):
tourism dollars?
Petra Hurtado (14:39):
Yeah, so also my favorite topic, to be honest.
Well, you know, I would say,when it comes to leisure time,
maybe from the outside in theremight be, you know, negative
impacts.
Talking about tourism, I cantalk some more about that.
But I also see a greatopportunity here for planners,
especially because when you havethe opportunity to rethink your
community programming andespecially how we do community
(15:02):
engagement right, if yousuddenly have a community where
everyone has more time toactually really engage, maybe
become more interested in, youknow, shaping their community,
shaping their neighborhood andbeing involved in this, it can
really take community engagementto a new level.
Right now, I know this isalways a challenge to you know
(15:22):
get the community together, toreally get a diverse group of
community members together,because, you know, usually it's
the ones who, at the time of themeeting, don't have to work or
don't have to take care of theirkids or whatever else it might
be.
So in many cases, you have theusual suspects there.
So I think there's anopportunity to really create
more diversity in that part ofplanning, if it's done right.
(15:45):
But then obviously, as youmentioned, the other side of the
picture is, you know, if wehave more leisure time, we have
more time to travel, and wealready see the increase in
tourism.
Honestly, I have to say, masstourism is not really a new
thing.
A lot of places have, you know,struggled with this in one way
or another.
(16:05):
A lot of communities have beendepending on tourism, in some
cases seasonal, in some cases,you know, around the year.
I think what's new and againcoming back to the theme of
accelerating change is thatthings like, for example, airbnb
, exacerbated this phenomenon ofmass tourism and really made it
(16:28):
creep into things like thehousing crisis.
Right, because suddenly we useapartments and places that are
actually dedicated for people tolive in that city to rent them
to tourism, and so I see theproblem more on that end, to see
what contributes to it, toactually creep into other
(16:48):
challenges that we are alreadystruggling to solve, and that's
where I think the plannersreally come in, to figure out
how can we change that tweak it.
Create policies to prevent thenegative impacts on the
community in that sense, createpolicies to prevent the negative
impacts on the community inthat sense.
Stephanie Rouse (17:04):
So scenario planning is becoming more
prominent in the world ofplanning, used for long-range
plans, hazard mitigationplanning, and it's showing up
here in the trend report.
You identify various scenariosthat show plausible futures for
communities.
How do you envision thesescenarios being used in practice
?
Petra Hurtado (17:20):
Yeah, I think it's important also to mention
that we are talking herespecifically about exploratory
scenario planning.
So it's not normative scenarioplanning where you try to figure
out an alternative between youknow how to get from A to B, for
example, as we've done that fora long time in transportation
planning.
It's really to, you know, lookat different emerging trends and
the uncertainties related tothem and how they might play out
(17:42):
in the future.
So the scenarios that we putout in the reports are really
meant to be, you know, exampleson how it's done, and we really
want to showcase that this canbe a fun and creative activity,
even though a lot of timestopics might seem dystopian, and
we also want to be provocative,to really get people's minds
(18:02):
going when we create some ofthese future scenarios.
The main intention here isreally to encourage people to
use this method in their work,especially when we work with the
community, because, you know,everyone can do scenario
planning.
You don't have to be aforesight expert, you don't have
to be a planner, everyone cando it.
And, again, it gets people'sminds going.
(18:25):
It helps us to.
You know, look at uncertaintyand sometimes in a fun way.
Right, it's very engaging, it'ssimple and it's a great tool
when again working with thecommunity if you want to, for
example, create a communityvision that is really based on
reality and on changes around us.
A lot of times, you know, wecreate a community vision that
(18:48):
is totally unrelated to what'shappening around us, because
everyone just puts out theirwish list without acknowledging
that the world will continue toturn.
So it's about, you know, usingthese scenarios to really figure
out, based on realisticassumptions, what could the
future be, and then reallydecide with the community what
is that preferred future fromall of these different options,
and then really creating plansthat help us to get to that
(19:10):
preferred future.
So what needs to happen today,in the next year, in the next
five years, so that in 10 years,we actually reach this
preferred future?
Obviously, every communityneeds to figure out for
themselves what are the topics,what are the trends, the
emerging trends that are mostrelevant to us and that still
(19:31):
create uncertainties right now,and then use those.
So, again, the scenarios that weoffer in the report are very
general.
I doubt that you know, there'sa one community that can kind of
use them as they are.
They're really mainly meant toshowcase the method, to create
some provocation but to reallyalso show that you know this is
a good method to use in planning.
(19:53):
And yeah, they are very generalin the report so I would not
recommend to just use them oneon one the way they are.
So communities really have tothink about tailor them to their
needs and to their prioritiesto make sense of it.
Jennifer Hiatt (20:06):
As a dog person, I appreciated the fact that
more cities are ensuringdog-friendly spaces, which is
just one of the examples of theneed for evolving public space.
How should planners be thinkingabout the evolving need for
outdoor space, post-pandemic andpeople's shifted needs
regarding that outdoor space,because not everybody likes dogs
.
I get that too, even though Iam a dog person.
Petra Hurtado (20:30):
Well, you know, we see all kinds of pets on the
streets these days.
One of my neighbors actuallywalks their cat, so there's
diversity.
On that end as well, I wouldsay.
You know, the COVID-19 pandemicfor sure has changed for many
how we approach life and whatneeds we have, be it at home, be
it work, and also be it inpublic space.
But I think there's a lot ofimpacting factors that have
(20:52):
always changed and evolved theseneeds, be it technology that
obviously plays a big partsocial norms, generational
values, all of that.
And we really wanted to raisesome awareness of this in this
year's report.
On the one hand, because it issuch a planning topic right and
public space has always beenpart of what right and public
space has always been part ofwhat we do and public spaces
(21:14):
have always been evolving.
But again, I feel like I'mrepeating myself a lot in this
podcast this time, but it'sagain.
This accelerating change isalso happening here, and there's
so many things right now wherewe really start wondering you
know, what does that mean forpublic space?
And the booming pet industry isone that really stuck out, we
also mentioned in the report.
(21:34):
Today in the US, there are morehouseholds with pets than
households with kids, which isreally interesting, you know.
Also, when you look into, youknow, playgrounds versus dog
parks.
But we also, for example,pointed out a really interesting
trend, and you might haveobserved that as well that a lot
of people don't use headphonesanymore in public but still
(21:56):
watch YouTube videos or listento music or whatever else, and
then suddenly the whole bus orthe whole park need to listen to
whatever they're watching.
Quite sure where that is comingfrom right now, also, given the
situation that there's so many,you know, new headphones, you
know noise cancelling, whateverelse coming out in all designs
(22:17):
and colours and shapes, butsomehow, you know, there's a
whole new approach on how youactually behave in public space
and what does that mean to?
You know social norms and otherthings, but we also, you know,
looked at, you know, for example, gender-related trends, where
clearly important voices aresuddenly being heard.
For example, you know, as women, it's just a fact that we more
(22:39):
often need a bathroom and it'sjust, you know, not as easy.
As for others to you know, dowhat we need to do there, and so
there is a trend towards, youknow, analyzing the gaps in
public space in terms of wheredo we need more public bathrooms
, for example.
The other thing that we werelooking at in that context of
public space is alsohomelessness and how it's being
(23:00):
approached in different cities,and you know what it means to
sleep in public space and whereit's okay to do so and where
there's, you know, regulationspopping up to actually not be
allowed to do that anymore, whatdo you do as someone who
doesn't have a home or a placewith a roof right?
The other thing, which you knowhas always been a topic, but I
(23:23):
think is also increasing, isreally the services that
libraries are covering thesedays public services and public
space.
I find it very interesting howlibraries are becoming really
the place for many differentneeds these days and how
libraries are actuallyapproaching that.
So that alone could be worth awhole podcast, I would say.
(23:46):
And then the other thing that wealso mentioned in the report
and we talked a little bit aboutthat last year too is this
merging of analog, or real life,and digital right.
We talked about the metaversebefore.
It's been quietly evolving.
We call it the quietmetaversing.
It's still a thing, especiallywhen you look at business
(24:07):
strategies, different companies,but it's also something you
know that creeps into planningin terms of what are the things
that people do, especially afterthe pandemic in the digital
world, and what are the thingsthat changed because of this in
the real world, and how doesthat inform how we think about
public spaces and their use.
(24:28):
So I think I could go on and onand on.
I just mentioned the topicsthat we specifically focused on
in this year's trend report, butI think there's just a lot of
things happening right now thatjust change how we live our
lives, how we, you know,socially interact and how that,
you know, plays into how publicspace needs are changing.
Stephanie Rouse (24:50):
So accelerating change theme throughout this
episode is one reason for theTrend Universe, a digital
platform that's somewhat new and, as the report says, will be
regularly updated.
Can you talk about theresources that are located here
and how listeners can use thistool?
Petra Hurtado (25:06):
Yeah.
So we obviously recognize that.
You know, by the time the TrendReport gets published, we
already started the next trendlist.
And you know, by the time thetrend report gets published, we
already started the next trendlist.
And you know new things arehappening and so the world is
not going to stop turning justbecause we are publishing a
trend report.
So we realized, well, the trendreport can provide a great
snapshot of what's important forthe coming year and it
(25:27):
obviously can be used as a toolfor planners throughout the year
.
We do need to continuously trackwhat's going on and we need to
have a place where we can, youknow, share that with planners
and dynamically update it.
So that's where the TrendUniverse comes in, and this
platform or website really hasevolved over the last three
years and we really started tojust simply integrating it into
(25:49):
the APA website.
It was never really like theperfect tool to use, so we
didn't really promote it as muchas we could have.
But we started to revamp thatlast year, also in partnership
with the Lincoln Institute ofLand Policy, to really make it a
tool and make it something thatplanners can use in addition to
the trend report.
(26:09):
So the new version is expectedto go online in May June-ish of
this year.
Content is already there rightnow too.
It's just not very, I would say, not the best tool to use.
It's not very usable right now.
So what we will do is, in thenew version, we will give really
detailed information on everysingle trend that we ever
mentioned in any of the trendreports.
(26:30):
We include the updates for eachof these trends and then link
to resources where people canlearn more about them, and it
would really.
It will provide some sort oftracking history of these trends
.
When did we start talking aboutthe trend?
What timeframes is it in rightnow, but from which timeframe
did it come?
So definitely an interestingthing to look at.
When you look at AI, where wereally started in the learn and
(26:53):
watch, and then within just acouple of years it moved into
the act now timeframes so youcan really see also the pace of
the dynamics and where thingscame from and where they are
today.
So around May June of this year, we will probably send out an
announcement.
Once that's happening, itshould be really a tool that
planners can use in addition tothe trend report.
Jennifer Hiatt (27:16):
There are so many things that pop up
throughout the years you werejust talking about.
So what's the one thing thatsurprised you the most in the
learn and watch section for thisyear's report?
Petra Hurtado (27:25):
So, having done this work for over five years,
at this point there's really notmuch that can surprise me at
this point, which is really sad.
But I would say one topic that Ifind fascinating and at the
same time really disturbing andconcerning is anything that goes
on in outer space.
Right, there's a lot going on,and I think every year in our
(27:47):
report we focus on a differenttopic there, but it really
ranges from trying to generatesolar energy directly from the
sun, mining minerals on Mars orthe moon, even settling on Mars,
right, like essentiallyadjusting human bodies to be
able to live in a Martianenvironment, in a Martian
(28:11):
environment, and so to me, it'sjust really concerning that we
rather put billions or eventrillions of dollars into this
kind of work and this kind ofresearch, instead of trying to
use that money to figure out howwe can live and be on our
planet in a more sustainable waythan what we're doing right now
.
So to me, it really seems likewe're trying we're just going to
deplete the current planet, andonce that's happened, we have
(28:34):
alternatives elsewhere, and Ijust don't think that that's a
good idea.
So this is very concerning tome and that's really why we've
been tracking it so much toreally be on top of what's going
on there.
But yeah, to me it's veryconcerning.
Stephanie Rouse (28:52):
Yeah, there's plenty of utopian movies out
there that show us that that isnot the right approach and that
it's disaster down the roadanyways.
Yeah, for sure.
So our last question for all ofour authors is a recommended
reading, and since you're one ofour few guests who've been on
the show before, you've alreadygiven us some good ones, like
Ministry of the Future, the GoodAncestor and Utopia for
Realists.
(29:12):
Do you have any otherrecommended readings that you'd
throw out to our audience?
Petra Hurtado (29:18):
I'm glad you mentioned the list that I
already recommended, because myall-time favorite and really one
of the books that got me reallyinterested in, you know,
practicing foresight andevolving this work is really the
good ancestor by romankrasnerick.
So you mentioned that.
I must have mentioned thatbefore.
One book maybe that I read lastyear and that inspired really
(29:41):
some of the content of the trendreport for this year is the
anxious generation by jonathanhaidt, where he really lays out
the concerns about, you know,what social media and cell phone
use and all of that andsmartphone use does to younger
generations and how, you know,certain impacts on this
generation did not only justcome out of COVID, but then
(30:03):
really how we handle, you know,social media use and all of that
with younger generations, andwe did have a big focus this
year also on, you know, youngergenerations, also the topic of
future generations, decolonizingthe future, all of that, and
also for us, you know, obviouslyan important aspect is to
include younger people in ourtrend scouting to see how
(30:25):
younger people see the future.
But I think the concerning partreally is how technologies and
trends that you know the oldergenerations are essentially
creating are impacting youngergenerations negatively and how
that later down the line mighthave major impacts on how we
live in this world and how wedeal with certain challenges.
(30:47):
So definitely a very inspiringbook that has a lot of data and
analysis of that data on, youknow, social media use and
depression and anxieties amongyoung people.
That was very inspiring to melast year and inspired a lot of
you know the thinking in ourgroup and the way we look at
trends and the way we, you know,see the importance of including
(31:09):
young people in this work andthe way we see the importance of
including our people in thiswork.
Jennifer Hiatt (31:17):
That book's been sitting on my shelf since I
heard about it from a differentpodcast called Offline, and the
to-read list is never finished,but I'm really excited to be
able to hopefully get to thatsoon.
Petra Hurtado (31:26):
Yeah, definitely recommend that.
Stephanie Rouse (31:28):
Well, petra, thank you so much for joining us
on the show again to talk, thistime about the 2025 trend
report.
Thanks so much for having me.
Jennifer Hiatt (31:37):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation with
Petra Hurtado about the APA 2025trend report.
You can download the fullreport on APA's website, linked
in the show notes, and rememberto subscribe to the show
wherever you listen to podcastsand please rate, review and
share the show show.
Thank you for listening andwe'll talk to you next time on
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In each episode, we dive intohow cities function by talking
with authors on housing,transportation and everything in
between.
Join us as we get Booked onPlanning.
In this episode, we talk withPetra Hurtado about APA's 2025
(01:18):
trend report.
We've been covering the trendreport each year since it came
out and it's been interesting,this year especially, to start
to see the trends evolve andeither grow or fade into the
background.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:29):
I think this is the episode I look forward to
most each year.
The trend report is always sofascinating, and Petra makes the
point that now that the trendreport is in its fourth year, we
can really start trackingtimelines for these topics as
well.
Stephanie Rouse (01:43):
The timing of this episode works out really
well as we're about to head toAPA National, to the conference
in Denver this weekend, wherePetra and her team will be
talking about the trend reportand hosting learning labs For
all of our listeners headed tothe conference.
Make sure to check out thosesessions and since Jennifer and
I will also be there, we hope tosee you there.
Jennifer Hiatt (02:03):
Yes, we really look forward to seeing everyone
at the conference and hopefullywe can discuss the trends report
in person with some of ourlisteners.
Let's get into our conversationwith Petra Hurtado about the
APA 2025 trends report.
Stephanie Rouse (02:16):
Well, Petra, welcome back to Booked On
Planning.
We're happy to have you on totalk about APA's 2025 trend
report, now in its fourth year.
What are some of the biggestchanges that you've observed in
the trends?
Broken out into Act Now,Prepare and Learn and Watch over
the years.
Petra Hurtado (02:34):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
It's always a pleasure to talkwith you.
Well, you know, I would say, ingeneral, the only constant is
really accelerating change atthis point and things are just
really moving so fast, whichreally shows how important this
work really is and how importantit is to practice foresight.
But otherwise, I mean, there'sa risk to really, you know,
(02:56):
getting lost if you don't trackall of these trends.
Looking at tech trends, keepingtrack of all of the new
developments and especially theevolution of artificial
intelligence, is obviously a bigone here, and for us it really
is a reason why we started aplant tech advisory group.
That really helps us to do that, because there's just so much
(03:17):
going on and it's really easy tolose track there.
The other one, obviously, Ithink the elephant in every
conversation in the room at thispoint the political environment
right now.
Just looking at the last sixweeks, you know, essentially
turned out the whole worldupside down, which you know most
of the trends that we'retalking about in the trend
(03:39):
report are unchanged in thisrespect, but the way we have to
look at them might've changed inthe last six weeks.
So, yeah, it's really, I thinkthe big thing is really the pace
of change and how things evolve.
Jennifer Hiatt (03:55):
So Stephanie and I both watched the webcast that
you guys put out on the trendreport as well, and it was very
clear there that you use a trendscouting team to make sure you
have a diverse group ofperspectives.
So I was wondering how you putthat team together and how do
you decide what goes into thereport, as you guys are working
as a team.
Petra Hurtado (04:14):
Yeah, so the trend scout community has really
evolved over the last fouryears and we really originally
started out with leaders fromour APA divisions, so planners
from different planning fields.
But we very soon realized inthis work, doing foresight, we
really need to look outside ofthe box.
So in this case, really lookingoutside of the planner's box
(04:36):
and so we started expanding thisgroup in the second year really
to different professions, alsoincluding people from outside of
the US and especially alsoincluding younger people to get
really the future at the tablewhen we talk about the future.
And so how are we doing that?
So to some part we do activerecruiting really, you know,
(04:57):
identifying the gaps of likewhat is a topic where we see a
lot of emerging trends, but wedon't really have an expert in
that field in the group.
So we really go into LinkedInand other places to find those
experts through networking atdifferent conferences in the US
and in other places in the world.
We also get a lot ofrecommendations of trend scouts
(05:17):
that tell us hey, I just had aconversation with this person
the other day and they reallyhave a lot to contribute on this
or that topic.
So then they recommend those tous and then sometimes just
people reach out to us peoplethat you know, for example, saw
that print report launch let'ssay, hey, I, you know, I think I
could also contribute to this.
And then you know, if we feellike they're a good fit, then we
(05:37):
usually include them as well.
So it's really a variety ofways on how we find these people
.
What is really great for us tosee is that we always feel like,
okay, you're giving so much tous.
There's so much input and value.
What can we give back?
But it seems like it's also alot of fun for them and value to
them to be part of this group,because there's just so much
(06:00):
knowledge flowing in themeetings that we have that
people really enjoy being there.
To your question in terms ofwhat goes into the report so
we're doing the trend scoutingreally year round.
So usually we already start anew list when we're still
working on the you know finaledits of the next trend report
and in many cases we end up witha list of over 500 different
(06:22):
topics.
Some of them are trends, someof them are observations, some
of them are opinions.
It's really a whole mix ofdifferent stuff.
So the first thing that we'reusually doing is verifying what
is a trend and what are thingsthat are valuable signals where
we feel like there's really ahigh chance that they could
become trends.
We use those, have another messylist with those and then we
(06:44):
obviously have to prioritize,and what we usually use are
three criteria.
One is the impact that a trendcould have in the future.
The second one is thepreparedness of planners, so
really bringing it down to theplanning profession and looking
at okay, do planners know how todeal with this or is this
something that we should reallyhighlight to create the
awareness about it?
(07:04):
And then the third one iscertainty.
How certain is it that eitherthis will have an impact or a
signal can become a trend?
How certain is that?
Stephanie Rouse (07:15):
And you mentioned about how the pace of
change is really what's becomingmore prominent, and especially
in tech, and AI is definitelyone of those.
I think, seeing from last trendreport to this trend report,
just the use and the explosionof AI has really rapidly
increased in just the past year.
It's being used in so manyfacets and has both amazing
(07:35):
potential as well as someserious environmental risks.
Can you discuss what you see asthe ideal path forward for AI
that balances both the risk andrewards?
Petra Hurtado (07:46):
I think that's really the million dollar
question of the time that we'reliving in, right, and if I had
an answer to it, I wouldprobably not sit here right now.
I think it's really thequestion that a lot of you know
decision makers, be it, you know, employers, but also
politicians and others aretrying to answer, because, on
(08:07):
the one hand, as you say,there's so many opportunities
that could come out of thistechnology Although we also need
to, you know, really lookcritically at it, because it all
depends on the data that feedsin, on how we interpret things,
how we use it.
But then it has so manynegative implications, as we
talked about this year in thetrend report.
When it comes to theenvironment, just the use of
(08:28):
energy and water to keep thesedata centers running, it's
literally insane, and the factthat we're actually doing this,
knowing that we have all theseissues such as climate change
and others that are just gettingexacerbated by this, is mind
boggling.
Change and others that are justgetting exacerbated by this is
mind-boggling.
(08:51):
But really finding a way tobalance the benefits with the
negative implications is hard todo when you don't really know
yet how far this technology canreally take us.
So you know.
In short, I really don't havean answer, as you can probably
see, but it's something that weneed to figure out.
Probably see, but it'ssomething that we need to figure
out, and I think one way to dothat is really to continue
tracking this evolution of thistechnology, educating ourselves
(09:12):
about it, really understandingwhat are the shortcomings of it
and what are the things that canbe really done with it, and
learning along the way and, yeah, I'm hopeful that, you know,
many decision makers are doingthat so that at some point, we
can figure out how to regulateit where it needs to be
regulated, where to give freedomto, you know, experiment where
(09:35):
it's ethically okay to do so.
Jennifer Hiatt (09:38):
Well, and speaking of climate change, of
course, another one of ourbiggest factors the trend report
mentions that it's leading tocascading impacts, especially
around wildfires.
So can you walk through theconcept of cascading impacts and
how planners need to startthinking about preventing these
cascading impacts?
Petra Hurtado (09:55):
Yeah, so we talked about the topic of
cascading impacts and cascadinghazards quite a bit at APA.
We also have a lot of resourceson this topic available.
But, simply put, it means thatnatural hazards don't happen in
isolation, right, and they canlead to additional issues down
the line.
And in this year's report, oneof our focus topics was really
(10:17):
the intersection of heat,drought, wildfires and air
pollution, which are allobviously very closely
interconnected, and we alsolooked at secondary impacts such
as threats to transportationnetworks.
So we mentioned the buckling ofrailway tracks that really
causes more and more issues withincreasing numbers of heat days
, the impacts on the energy grid, right, and then many other
(10:40):
infrastructure systems.
We also looked into topics suchas, you know, crop loss due to
drought, but also due toflooding.
So there are many impacts ormany different hazards involved
here.
One other one that might seem,you know, a little unrelated but
kind of fits into this topic aswell, is the questioning of
(11:00):
carbon offsets, which a lot ofyou know company have been using
as their green branding, wherethey really had to find, you
know, different places to offsetthe CO2 emissions that they're
creating.
And the question really thereis what happens if the forest
that was dedicated to yourcarbon offset suddenly burns
down in a wildfire, like how canthat still be a carbon offset?
(11:23):
It obviously is not, and sothere's a lot of questioning
around that topic.
But yeah, the main issue isreally that we are dealing with
so many different naturalhazards at this point and their
interconnection just reallybecome almost like a snowball
effect and have impacts on somany issues and so many systems
that we, as planners are really,you know, responsible for
(11:44):
working on planning for all ofthat.
Stephanie Rouse (11:47):
So one of the more fun and positive trends in
the report involves fungi andits amazing potential to help us
, which is ironic given one ofthe more popular recent TV shows
, the Last of Us, where fungidid the exact opposite.
So this is a learn and watchtrend.
So nothing imminent, but whatdo you see as one of their more
immediate applications?
Petra Hurtado (12:09):
So fungi in general have been essential to
human life for a long time,especially in the medical field.
They have been in use andobviously life-saving for many.
I think in our field there is alot of experimentation going on
right now, a lot of piloting,which is really why we kept it
in the learn and watch timeframe.
I would say it's reallyimportant for us to really learn
(12:32):
about these things and be awareof them, because I think
there's a lot of potential,especially when it comes to
building materials, but alsocreating materials that can
replace plastics.
So especially and that's mypersonal opinion I think the way
we use concrete as a, you know,construction material and the
way we use plastics in generalin our lives is just really
(12:54):
concerning, and my hope is thatyou know, with some of the
experiments that are going onright now with fungi, that we
can potentially find some moresustainable and environmentally
responsible solutions with fungito replace plastics and
concrete and some of these weirdpolluting materials.
Stephanie Rouse (13:14):
I was just listening to a 99% invisible
episode last night on my driveback from our conference and it
was talking about brutalistarchitecture and all the
concrete that goes into it andthey were saying how in the US I
think it was just the US, butthat the one thing we consume
more of than water, or the nextthing we consume the most of is
concrete and just how prevalentis everywhere and
(13:36):
environmentally not a greatmaterial to use so much of.
Petra Hurtado (13:40):
Absolutely, and I mean we mentioned another trend
, or actually two trends, lastyear.
There's obviously more interestnow also in mass timber, which
there's a lot of trial and errorright now happening as well.
One other one that I foundreally interesting is with the
technology of carbon capture.
There are experiments andpilots right now to actually
(14:00):
create building materials, suchas concrete, out of the carbon
capture technology.
So I think there is a lot ofinteresting stuff on the horizon
.
We'll see where that's going togo over the next years also,
especially considering thepolitical environment right now.
Jennifer Hiatt (14:17):
I appreciated the idea of the post-work era
and greeting someone with whatinterests them instead of what
do you do.
First question is who are you?
But your second is so what doyou do?
But more leisure time can havenegative impacts on local
communities.
So how should planners bethinking about protecting local
quality of life when so manybudgets depend on outside
(14:37):
tourism dollars?
Petra Hurtado (14:39):
Yeah, so also my favorite topic, to be honest.
Well, you know, I would say,when it comes to leisure time,
maybe from the outside in theremight be, you know, negative
impacts.
Talking about tourism, I cantalk some more about that.
But I also see a greatopportunity here for planners,
especially because when you havethe opportunity to rethink your
community programming andespecially how we do community
(15:02):
engagement right, if yousuddenly have a community where
everyone has more time toactually really engage, maybe
become more interested in, youknow, shaping their community,
shaping their neighborhood andbeing involved in this, it can
really take community engagementto a new level.
Right now, I know this isalways a challenge to you know
(15:22):
get the community together, toreally get a diverse group of
community members together,because, you know, usually it's
the ones who, at the time of themeeting, don't have to work or
don't have to take care of theirkids or whatever else it might
be.
So in many cases, you have theusual suspects there.
So I think there's anopportunity to really create
more diversity in that part ofplanning, if it's done right.
(15:45):
But then obviously, as youmentioned, the other side of the
picture is, you know, if wehave more leisure time, we have
more time to travel, and wealready see the increase in
tourism.
Honestly, I have to say, masstourism is not really a new
thing.
A lot of places have, you know,struggled with this in one way
or another.
(16:05):
A lot of communities have beendepending on tourism, in some
cases seasonal, in some cases,you know, around the year.
I think what's new and againcoming back to the theme of
accelerating change is thatthings like, for example, airbnb
, exacerbated this phenomenon ofmass tourism and really made it
(16:28):
creep into things like thehousing crisis.
Right, because suddenly we useapartments and places that are
actually dedicated for people tolive in that city to rent them
to tourism, and so I see theproblem more on that end, to see
what contributes to it, toactually creep into other
(16:48):
challenges that we are alreadystruggling to solve, and that's
where I think the plannersreally come in, to figure out
how can we change that tweak it.
Create policies to prevent thenegative impacts on the
community in that sense, createpolicies to prevent the negative
impacts on the community inthat sense.
Stephanie Rouse (17:04):
So scenario planning is becoming more
prominent in the world ofplanning, used for long-range
plans, hazard mitigationplanning, and it's showing up
here in the trend report.
You identify various scenariosthat show plausible futures for
communities.
How do you envision thesescenarios being used in practice
?
Petra Hurtado (17:20):
Yeah, I think it's important also to mention
that we are talking herespecifically about exploratory
scenario planning.
So it's not normative scenarioplanning where you try to figure
out an alternative between youknow how to get from A to B, for
example, as we've done that fora long time in transportation
planning.
It's really to, you know, lookat different emerging trends and
the uncertainties related tothem and how they might play out
(17:42):
in the future.
So the scenarios that we putout in the reports are really
meant to be, you know, exampleson how it's done, and we really
want to showcase that this canbe a fun and creative activity,
even though a lot of timestopics might seem dystopian, and
we also want to be provocative,to really get people's minds
(18:02):
going when we create some ofthese future scenarios.
The main intention here isreally to encourage people to
use this method in their work,especially when we work with the
community, because, you know,everyone can do scenario
planning.
You don't have to be aforesight expert, you don't have
to be a planner, everyone cando it.
And, again, it gets people'sminds going.
(18:25):
It helps us to.
You know, look at uncertaintyand sometimes in a fun way.
Right, it's very engaging, it'ssimple and it's a great tool
when again working with thecommunity if you want to, for
example, create a communityvision that is really based on
reality and on changes around us.
A lot of times, you know, wecreate a community vision that
(18:48):
is totally unrelated to what'shappening around us, because
everyone just puts out theirwish list without acknowledging
that the world will continue toturn.
So it's about, you know, usingthese scenarios to really figure
out, based on realisticassumptions, what could the
future be, and then reallydecide with the community what
is that preferred future fromall of these different options,
and then really creating plansthat help us to get to that
(19:10):
preferred future.
So what needs to happen today,in the next year, in the next
five years, so that in 10 years,we actually reach this
preferred future?
Obviously, every communityneeds to figure out for
themselves what are the topics,what are the trends, the
emerging trends that are mostrelevant to us and that still
(19:31):
create uncertainties right now,and then use those.
So, again, the scenarios that weoffer in the report are very
general.
I doubt that you know, there'sa one community that can kind of
use them as they are.
They're really mainly meant toshowcase the method, to create
some provocation but to reallyalso show that you know this is
a good method to use in planning.
(19:53):
And yeah, they are very generalin the report so I would not
recommend to just use them oneon one the way they are.
So communities really have tothink about tailor them to their
needs and to their prioritiesto make sense of it.
Jennifer Hiatt (20:06):
As a dog person, I appreciated the fact that
more cities are ensuringdog-friendly spaces, which is
just one of the examples of theneed for evolving public space.
How should planners be thinkingabout the evolving need for
outdoor space, post-pandemic andpeople's shifted needs
regarding that outdoor space,because not everybody likes dogs
.
I get that too, even though Iam a dog person.
Petra Hurtado (20:30):
Well, you know, we see all kinds of pets on the
streets these days.
One of my neighbors actuallywalks their cat, so there's
diversity.
On that end as well, I wouldsay.
You know, the COVID-19 pandemicfor sure has changed for many
how we approach life and whatneeds we have, be it at home, be
it work, and also be it inpublic space.
But I think there's a lot ofimpacting factors that have
(20:52):
always changed and evolved theseneeds, be it technology that
obviously plays a big partsocial norms, generational
values, all of that.
And we really wanted to raisesome awareness of this in this
year's report.
On the one hand, because it issuch a planning topic right and
public space has always beenpart of what right and public
space has always been part ofwhat we do and public spaces
(21:14):
have always been evolving.
But again, I feel like I'mrepeating myself a lot in this
podcast this time, but it'sagain.
This accelerating change isalso happening here, and there's
so many things right now wherewe really start wondering you
know, what does that mean forpublic space?
And the booming pet industry isone that really stuck out, we
also mentioned in the report.
(21:34):
Today in the US, there are morehouseholds with pets than
households with kids, which isreally interesting, you know.
Also, when you look into, youknow, playgrounds versus dog
parks.
But we also, for example,pointed out a really interesting
trend, and you might haveobserved that as well that a lot
of people don't use headphonesanymore in public but still
(21:56):
watch YouTube videos or listento music or whatever else, and
then suddenly the whole bus orthe whole park need to listen to
whatever they're watching.
Quite sure where that is comingfrom right now, also, given the
situation that there's so many,you know, new headphones, you
know noise cancelling, whateverelse coming out in all designs
(22:17):
and colours and shapes, butsomehow, you know, there's a
whole new approach on how youactually behave in public space
and what does that mean to?
You know social norms and otherthings, but we also, you know,
looked at, you know, for example, gender-related trends, where
clearly important voices aresuddenly being heard.
For example, you know, as women, it's just a fact that we more
(22:39):
often need a bathroom and it'sjust, you know, not as easy.
As for others to you know, dowhat we need to do there, and so
there is a trend towards, youknow, analyzing the gaps in
public space in terms of wheredo we need more public bathrooms
, for example.
The other thing that we werelooking at in that context of
public space is alsohomelessness and how it's being
(23:00):
approached in different cities,and you know what it means to
sleep in public space and whereit's okay to do so and where
there's, you know, regulationspopping up to actually not be
allowed to do that anymore, whatdo you do as someone who
doesn't have a home or a placewith a roof right?
The other thing, which you knowhas always been a topic, but I
(23:23):
think is also increasing, isreally the services that
libraries are covering thesedays public services and public
space.
I find it very interesting howlibraries are becoming really
the place for many differentneeds these days and how
libraries are actuallyapproaching that.
So that alone could be worth awhole podcast, I would say.
(23:46):
And then the other thing that wealso mentioned in the report
and we talked a little bit aboutthat last year too is this
merging of analog, or real life,and digital right.
We talked about the metaversebefore.
It's been quietly evolving.
We call it the quietmetaversing.
It's still a thing, especiallywhen you look at business
(24:07):
strategies, different companies,but it's also something you
know that creeps into planningin terms of what are the things
that people do, especially afterthe pandemic in the digital
world, and what are the thingsthat changed because of this in
the real world, and how doesthat inform how we think about
public spaces and their use.
(24:28):
So I think I could go on and onand on.
I just mentioned the topicsthat we specifically focused on
in this year's trend report, butI think there's just a lot of
things happening right now thatjust change how we live our
lives, how we, you know,socially interact and how that,
you know, plays into how publicspace needs are changing.
Stephanie Rouse (24:50):
So accelerating change theme throughout this
episode is one reason for theTrend Universe, a digital
platform that's somewhat new and, as the report says, will be
regularly updated.
Can you talk about theresources that are located here
and how listeners can use thistool?
Petra Hurtado (25:06):
Yeah.
So we obviously recognize that.
You know, by the time the TrendReport gets published, we
already started the next trendlist.
And you know, by the time thetrend report gets published, we
already started the next trendlist.
And you know new things arehappening and so the world is
not going to stop turning justbecause we are publishing a
trend report.
So we realized, well, the trendreport can provide a great
snapshot of what's important forthe coming year and it
(25:27):
obviously can be used as a toolfor planners throughout the year
.
We do need to continuously trackwhat's going on and we need to
have a place where we can, youknow, share that with planners
and dynamically update it.
So that's where the TrendUniverse comes in, and this
platform or website really hasevolved over the last three
years and we really started tojust simply integrating it into
(25:49):
the APA website.
It was never really like theperfect tool to use, so we
didn't really promote it as muchas we could have.
But we started to revamp thatlast year, also in partnership
with the Lincoln Institute ofLand Policy, to really make it a
tool and make it something thatplanners can use in addition to
the trend report.
(26:09):
So the new version is expectedto go online in May June-ish of
this year.
Content is already there rightnow too.
It's just not very, I would say, not the best tool to use.
It's not very usable right now.
So what we will do is, in thenew version, we will give really
detailed information on everysingle trend that we ever
mentioned in any of the trendreports.
(26:30):
We include the updates for eachof these trends and then link
to resources where people canlearn more about them, and it
would really.
It will provide some sort oftracking history of these trends
.
When did we start talking aboutthe trend?
What timeframes is it in rightnow, but from which timeframe
did it come?
So definitely an interestingthing to look at.
When you look at AI, where wereally started in the learn and
(26:53):
watch, and then within just acouple of years it moved into
the act now timeframes so youcan really see also the pace of
the dynamics and where thingscame from and where they are
today.
So around May June of this year, we will probably send out an
announcement.
Once that's happening, itshould be really a tool that
planners can use in addition tothe trend report.
Jennifer Hiatt (27:16):
There are so many things that pop up
throughout the years you werejust talking about.
So what's the one thing thatsurprised you the most in the
learn and watch section for thisyear's report?
Petra Hurtado (27:25):
So, having done this work for over five years,
at this point there's really notmuch that can surprise me at
this point, which is really sad.
But I would say one topic that Ifind fascinating and at the
same time really disturbing andconcerning is anything that goes
on in outer space.
Right, there's a lot going on,and I think every year in our
(27:47):
report we focus on a differenttopic there, but it really
ranges from trying to generatesolar energy directly from the
sun, mining minerals on Mars orthe moon, even settling on Mars,
right, like essentiallyadjusting human bodies to be
able to live in a Martianenvironment, in a Martian
(28:11):
environment, and so to me, it'sjust really concerning that we
rather put billions or eventrillions of dollars into this
kind of work and this kind ofresearch, instead of trying to
use that money to figure out howwe can live and be on our
planet in a more sustainable waythan what we're doing right now
.
So to me, it really seems likewe're trying we're just going to
deplete the current planet, andonce that's happened, we have
(28:34):
alternatives elsewhere, and Ijust don't think that that's a
good idea.
So this is very concerning tome and that's really why we've
been tracking it so much toreally be on top of what's going
on there.
But yeah, to me it's veryconcerning.
Stephanie Rouse (28:52):
Yeah, there's plenty of utopian movies out
there that show us that that isnot the right approach and that
it's disaster down the roadanyways.
Yeah, for sure.
So our last question for all ofour authors is a recommended
reading, and since you're one ofour few guests who've been on
the show before, you've alreadygiven us some good ones, like
Ministry of the Future, the GoodAncestor and Utopia for
Realists.
(29:12):
Do you have any otherrecommended readings that you'd
throw out to our audience?
Petra Hurtado (29:18):
I'm glad you mentioned the list that I
already recommended, because myall-time favorite and really one
of the books that got me reallyinterested in, you know,
practicing foresight andevolving this work is really the
good ancestor by romankrasnerick.
So you mentioned that.
I must have mentioned thatbefore.
One book maybe that I read lastyear and that inspired really
(29:41):
some of the content of the trendreport for this year is the
anxious generation by jonathanhaidt, where he really lays out
the concerns about, you know,what social media and cell phone
use and all of that andsmartphone use does to younger
generations and how, you know,certain impacts on this
generation did not only justcome out of COVID, but then
(30:03):
really how we handle, you know,social media use and all of that
with younger generations, andwe did have a big focus this
year also on, you know, youngergenerations, also the topic of
future generations, decolonizingthe future, all of that, and
also for us, you know, obviouslyan important aspect is to
include younger people in ourtrend scouting to see how
(30:25):
younger people see the future.
But I think the concerning partreally is how technologies and
trends that you know the oldergenerations are essentially
creating are impacting youngergenerations negatively and how
that later down the line mighthave major impacts on how we
live in this world and how wedeal with certain challenges.
(30:47):
So definitely a very inspiringbook that has a lot of data and
analysis of that data on, youknow, social media use and
depression and anxieties amongyoung people.
That was very inspiring to melast year and inspired a lot of
you know the thinking in ourgroup and the way we look at
trends and the way we, you know,see the importance of including
(31:09):
young people in this work andthe way we see the importance of
including our people in thiswork.
Jennifer Hiatt (31:17):
That book's been sitting on my shelf since I
heard about it from a differentpodcast called Offline, and the
to-read list is never finished,but I'm really excited to be
able to hopefully get to thatsoon.
Petra Hurtado (31:26):
Yeah, definitely recommend that.
Stephanie Rouse (31:28):
Well, petra, thank you so much for joining us
on the show again to talk, thistime about the 2025 trend
report.
Thanks so much for having me.
Jennifer Hiatt (31:37):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation with
Petra Hurtado about the APA 2025trend report.
You can download the fullreport on APA's website, linked
in the show notes, and rememberto subscribe to the show
wherever you listen to podcastsand please rate, review and
share the show show.
Thank you for listening andwe'll talk to you next time on
booked on planning.
Thank you.
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