September 10, 2024 • 41 mins
Discover how cities can become more resilient to climate change by focusing on the needs of older adults. Join us as we sit down with Danielle Arigoni, the author behind "Climate Resilience for an Aging Nation." Danielle sheds light on the often-overlooked challenges that older populations face during climate-fueled disasters. From gaps in housing and public transit to emergency preparedness, you'll learn why integrating climate and aging planning efforts is crucial for community resilience.
Explore the heightened vulnerabilities faced by older adults in marginalized communities and the limitations of relying on individual preparedness. Through examples from recent local events, we highlight the transformative power of community-based disaster readiness and the essential role of neighborly support. Danielle discusses innovative, community-driven strategies in cities like Portland and New Orleans, demonstrating how targeted efforts can significantly bolster climate resilience for seniors.
Finally, we delve into proactive measures that communities can take to protect their aging populations. Learn about the crucial work of Area Agencies on Aging and the AARP Network of Age-Friendly States and Communities, and how these entities can partner with local planners. From shaded public transit stops to special needs registries and accessible disaster communication, Danielle shares actionable steps to create inclusive, resilient environments for older adults. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in safeguarding our most vulnerable populations against climate risks.
Show Notes:
- Further Reading: Understanding Disaster Insurance by Carollyn Kousky (Island Press) and When Driving is Not an Option by Anna Ziverts,
- To help support the show, pick up a copy of the book through our Amazon Affiliates page at https://amzn.to/3X7UWNN or even better, get a copy through your local bookstore!
- To view the show transcripts, click on the episode at https://bookedonplanning.buzzsprout.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Rouse (00:00):
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(00:45):
You're listening to the BookedOn Planning podcast, a project
of the Nebraska chapter of theAmerican Planning Association.
In each episode we dive intohow cities function by talking
with authors on housing,transportation and everything in
between.
Join us as we get Booked onPlanning.
Welcome back, bookworms, toanother episode of Booked on
(01:12):
Planning.
In this episode we talk withauthor Danielle Aragoni on her
book Climate Resilience for anAging Nation.
Danielle is the ManagingDirector for Policy and
Solutions at National HousingTrust, but she previously served
as the Director of LivableCommunities at AARP.
In her book and ourconversation we discussed the
AARP Age-Friendly Network thatshe had a part in during her
(01:33):
time with the organization.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:35):
It was interesting to read climate
resilience just as Lincoln wasexperiencing weather-related
emergencies.
I was actually really proud ofour emergency response that our
city team had, but it alsoreally made me think about
everything that we could bedoing to do better.
Stephanie Rouse (01:49):
Yes, we get into the fact that, while we
have places for people to go inthe event of extreme heat, we
also don't extend those hoursbeyond 7 pm when the library
closes.
So things to work on Exactly.
This book had me Googling whatwe were doing as a community
here in Lincoln every fewchapters.
I knew that we'd become anage-friendly community in
(02:11):
January of this year, but reallyhad no idea on the specifics of
it beyond that or what we weredoing for our planning process.
It also made me curious tofigure out what our percentage
of older adults is here inLincoln that live outside of
congregate facilities, given thenational average, which is that
only 2% of older adults livewithin a nursing home or
retirement community.
Jennifer Hiatt (02:32):
Yeah, I have to admit that I was a little
embarrassed that you were theperson who told me that we
received that designation.
So, as Danielle states, it doestake a blend of personal action
and community support to makesure that you are ready for a
disaster.
One of my favorite aspects ofthe book was the social
component.
You will almost always be oneof the actual first responders
(02:52):
in your neighborhood, so gettingto know your neighbors and any
special needs that they mighthave is important, so you can
kind of come together and pullresources that way.
Stephanie Rouse (03:00):
We touched on this in the conversation, but
there is so much focus onplanning for marginalized groups
that can include older adults.
However, it's not usuallycalled out separately.
Danielle argues that we need tofirst plan for older adults,
which will make our communitiesmore resilient overall, because
age compounds all other factorsthat make climate resilience a
challenge.
Jennifer Hiatt (03:20):
And I actually thought that was a really
poignant take.
Aging is hopefully one of theexperiences that we all will
have, so it's important to planfor it.
Let's get into our conversationwith author Daniel Aragoni on
the climate resilience for anaging nation.
Stephanie Rouse (03:36):
Daniel, thank you for joining us on Booked On
Planning to talk about your bookClimate Resilience for an Aging
Nation.
A troubling trend in climatefuel disasters like Hurricane
Katrina show.
Older adults over 65consistently make up two-thirds
or more of the death tolls.
Hurricane Katrina was nearly 20years ago, but we still aren't
focusing on older adults whenpreparing for disaster
mitigation plans or duringrecovery efforts.
(03:59):
Why do you think it's taking solong for this to become a?
Danielle Arigoni (04:01):
priority.
First of all, thanks for havingme, stephanie and Jennifer.
I'm really happy to be here.
I wish I knew why it was takingso long.
Honestly, I find it troublingmyself.
I'm a planner, educated in theplanning field.
I've worked kind of on thefringes of planning for 20 plus
years in the federal governmentand nonprofit sector and I think
part of it is the reality thatwe just don't really talk about
(04:24):
aging in our planning profession.
We tend to think aboutcommunities as kind of a
monolith, and I think there'scertainly more awareness around
income differentiations and raceand ethnicity, but age is often
not discussed in that samecontext and the thing that that
results in is really blind spots, as I have come to think of
them as around the needs ofolder adults, so that when we're
(04:44):
designing housing or parks orpublic transit we're not
necessarily thinking about theneeds of older adults as being a
specific cohort.
I think, thanks to ADA andother laws, there's a heightened
awareness of people withdisabilities and a need to
accommodate that.
But the reality is that agingbrings with it kind of a
constellation of realities thatmake it difficult for oftentimes
(05:04):
for people to navigate theirown communities and certainly
for them to age in place.
So I think that that compoundssort of why we're at where we're
at with these trends.
Another reason, frankly, isthat there's two kind of siloed
approaches to this.
There's kind of one group oforganizations and institutions
that are thinking about how weplan for climate those are the
chief resilience officers andthe engineers and the
(05:26):
climatologists.
And then we've got a totallydifferent set that is thinking
about preparing for an older,grayer future, and those are the
aging advocates and thegerontologists and the
demographers, and they don'toften talk.
They're quite siloed.
So I think that's anotherreason we see these really
troubling trends.
Jennifer Hiatt (05:42):
I actually had an interaction a few years ago
with another planner thattroubled me a little, not in a
bad way, but we were talkingwith a small town about
infrastructure needs and I madethe comment that you should
start planning your small townaround what your grandparents
need, because a lot of ruralNebraska at least, is aging.
Danielle Arigoni (06:01):
Absolutely.
Jennifer Hiatt (06:02):
Those small towns aren't getting any smaller
, and one of the other plannersthat I was working with they
were like well, that seems likeit's very backwards looking.
I like to talk about how weshould plan a community around,
how a mom could push a strolleraround, and that meets the same
requirements.
I was like it really doesn't,though, and I think that you
know we're God willing, we'reall going to be older adults in
(06:25):
our future.
We don't have as much of thatconcept of being young and
trying to navigate when you'relittle, so I thought that was
just kind of an odd take.
Danielle Arigoni (06:33):
It is and I think it's honestly pretty
reflective Even when we thinkabout economic development
strategies.
A lot of you know economicdevelopment strategies are
premised on how do we attractmillennials, how do we attract
Gen Zs to come and sort ofpopulate our communities.
The reality is that the olderadult demographic is the fastest
growing one, so people over 65are growing faster than any
other age cohort and that we'revery close to reaching a tip on
(06:55):
point in about 10 years wherewe're going to have more people
over 65 than we will under 18for the first time ever.
And, as you pointed out, manycommunities are already there
Nebraska, rural Nebraska morethan a quarter, I imagine, are
older adults.
There's a story on NPR justthis week about Montana where
already rural places are morethan 25% of their population is
(07:15):
people over 60.
That's the case in Maine andmany other rural communities
across the country and frankly,that's where we're headed as a
nation.
So let's plan for that cohortbecause it is growing, because
we will all be there, godwilling, as you said, and
because when you solve for theneeds of older adults you do
also solve for the needs ofpeople with other ages.
It's kind of the curb cuteffect of plan for the stroller,
(07:37):
plan, for the walker, plan, forthe person in a wheelchair.
You benefit all of those groups.
But I really do and I've cometo believe that when you center
the needs of older adults inplanning, especially climate
resilience planning, it kind ofunlocks solutions that there
were previously not thoughtabout, not considered and
therefore not implemented.
Jennifer Hiatt (07:55):
Just to put us all on the same page as we go
throughout this discussion, canyou tell us who you are talking
about when you say older adults,because I'm sure everyone has a
different demographic in theirhead?
And, interestingly, from yourbook, why don't we use the term
elderly?
Danielle Arigoni (08:09):
Yeah, you know , the definition of what is an
older adult, I think, is one ofthe most interesting things of
this whole discussion and,frankly, I think it's part of
why we do overlook older adultsin planning, because we can't
neatly define them.
Everyone knows that a child issomeone under 18, but, depending
on how you define it, an olderadult can be someone over 50
when they start to get theirAARP publications and marketing.
(08:31):
They can be someone over 55when they qualify for retirement
community, someone over 62 whenyou can qualify for social
security, or 65 when you canapply for Medicare.
There's all these differentmarks.
So there is this very nebulousconcept of who is an older adult
and when do you become one.
So I think that in some waysthat's fine, right, it doesn't
really matter what we decide.
(08:51):
But the flip side of that isyou can't manage what you can't
measure.
And if we're not measuring thequantity of people that are in
whatever we decide to be as theolder adult cohort, then we
can't effectively engage them,we can't effectively plan for
their needs the cohort then wecan't effectively engage them,
we can't effectively plan fortheir needs.
The reason I don't use the wordelderly is because I think it
(09:11):
connotes frailty frankly, notalways.
Obviously there are manyelderly people who are not frail
, but I think that the imagethat comes to mind when you hear
elderly is someone of physicalfrailties.
And I think one of the mostamazing things about the older
adult cohort, particularly as itgrows, you see this incredible
array of ages and abilitieswithin that own cohort.
I think about my own mom who's83 and walks three miles a day
and is still a very active realestate agent, kicking butt,
(09:33):
doing great stuff.
There are other people who aremuch younger, who have much more
difficulty with mobility ornavigability, all of these
things.
So it's a very varied groupwhich just speaks to the term
older adults as, I think, beinga little bit more expansive and
inclusive.
Stephanie Rouse (09:48):
Yeah, I'd agree If we were using the term
elderly.
I wouldn't put my parents inthat category just because of
the connotations that you kindof described, but they're
definitely in the older adultcategory and is the group that
we need to start planning for.
Yeah, so much of the work onclimate change and preparedness
has begun to focus onmarginalized group, which tends
to include older adults butdoesn't really call them out
(10:10):
specifically.
How does a climate changeapproach look different when we
focus specifically on age,versus just clumping everyone
together as a marginalized group?
Danielle Arigoni (10:20):
I think that we're starting to see some
greater awareness within some ofthe agencies and organizations
that are seeking to servemarginalized people.
We're seeing some progress interms of a greater need to
identify vulnerable andmarginalized populations, an
example being FEMA in its mostrecent guidance around the state
hazard mitigation plans.
(10:40):
They're moving towards guidancethat is more inclusive of
vulnerabilities that come fromsocioeconomic conditions.
So that's good.
Previously they kind of focusedon buildings and hard
infrastructure being at risk.
They're moving towards a placeof what sort of risks emerge
when you think about thevulnerabilities of a population.
But the downside of that sort ofclumping together to just say
(11:01):
marginalized people is that youreally lose the detail around
the unique needs of older adults.
And I think you know if youthink about low-income people or
you think about people of color, or you think about people with
disabilities all of thoseelements age stacks on top of
them.
So if someone already is livingwith poor access to healthcare
by virtue of them living in arural community or living in a
(11:24):
disinvested community, when youlayer on top of that the fact
that they're aging, thatdifference and that differential
becomes even more acute.
Similarly, for someone who islow income Low income people are
struggling in many differentways, but as an older adult
who's low income, the riskincreases because there aren't
the sort of job opportunitiesthat maybe there once were.
There aren't as many years ofearning capacity or capability
(11:45):
to save money as there once were.
The age risks layer on top ofall of those other
vulnerabilities, which is why Ithink it's really essential to
kind of tease it out.
I think a lot ofpresuppositions and assumptions
get made about vulnerable peopleand who they are and what they
look like, but the reality isthat you really need to kind of
tease out who lives in yourcommunity, what are the actual
(12:06):
risks that they face whetherit's housing insecurity or
limited access to health care orlimited access to
transportation and start tobetter define those so that you
can work to address them.
Jennifer Hiatt (12:18):
Kind of in that vein.
Another paradigm shift that youtalk about in the book is that
we need to shift from thedefault focus of individual
disaster preparedness toproviding resources on community
or group preparedness, andLincoln actually just
experienced this.
Last week we had a massivewindstorm that came through.
It knocked out a bunch of powerand I thought our community did
(12:40):
a pretty good job in that itput out information of, like you
know, please go here, these areplaces.
Then Stephanie and I talkedabout how, like, the library
closes at seven.
So even though the library wasone of the places where you
should go, you didn't have aplace all night and a lot of the
conversation started focusingaround oh man, we should be like
(13:01):
buying generators from ourhouse, and it was an interesting
microcosm of reading this bookand then having a little mini
disaster happen all at the sametime.
What would this look like andhow can communities start to
begin sourcing those resourcesnow, because obviously it's just
getting worse and worse?
Danielle Arigoni (13:17):
It is.
Yeah, the need for this shiftis is really urgent.
You know, I think as Americanswe're very sort of
individualistic and very, youknow, sort of we could do it
ourselves, and in many waysthat's a really great trait of
Americans.
I think the downside of that isthat there's a lot of
assumptions that people can't orare able to prepare equally,
and the reality is that, again,older adults often can't.
(13:37):
You know, we think aboutsomeone who lives on a fixed
income.
It's really hard for them tostockpile two weeks of food and
medicine or to buy an airconditioner.
Just this morning I was lookinginto portable air conditioners
for a family friend of ourswho's in her 80s was in a mobile
home.
It gets really really reallydangerously hot in her home and
she did not have the wherewithalto go drop 500 bucks on a
(13:58):
portable air conditioner.
That's the reality for a lot ofpeople.
So when you think aboutindividual preparedness and well
, everybody can do it forthemselves there's a lot of
limitations to that.
Think about someone who liveswith dementia.
Think about someone who hasmore urgent needs in terms of
caregiving for someone who's athome, whether it's a spouse or
an adult child with a disabilityor any of those other
(14:19):
responsibilities.
It just there's a lot of, Ithink, false expectations around
what people can do to beprepared, and oftentimes what I
kind of saw in my research isthat a lot of the people who
died in Hurricane Ian and otherdisasters it's not that they
hadn't prepared, it's that therewere really unrealistic
expectations about what it meansto be prepared and what is the
role of that social safety netthat people count on that all of
(14:41):
a sudden dissipates whenemergencies strike.
So how do we shift to more of asort of communal, interdependent
way of thinking aboutpreparedness?
I really lean into the sort ofcommunity resilience frame and I
think about it as a safety net,think about it as that web of
connection that we knowactivates in times of disaster.
Every community that hasexperienced something the one
(15:02):
you just described in Lincoln,many others.
You hear these amazing storiesof neighbors helping neighbors
and people coming together tosupport one another so that
energy is there.
What's missing is the structureto bring people together to do
that before the disaster strikes, and I think that there's a lot
of mechanisms already in placethat have the potential to
harness that energy.
But again, it starts with asingular goal, which is we're
(15:24):
aiming to reduce risk for olderadults in our community, and
we're going to do that now andtomorrow and the next day and
we're not going to wait untilthe disaster strikes.
So some of the groups that Ithink are really well positioned
to do that are groups like theArea Agencies on Aging, which
often act at a county level andprovide supports to seniors, to
older adults in the community,delivered meals on wheels.
(15:44):
Usually they think abouttransportation and mobility
needs.
They have an infrastructure inplace already that is connected
to older adults where they're atat a really granular level.
But I can't tell you the numberof planners I've talked to that
have never heard of an areaagency on aging.
It's just not a natural partnerthat we think about sort of
from the land use side and itneeds to be like we need to be
(16:06):
making those connections now.
I would say I don't come fromthe emergency response world but
I would harbor the similar betthat many of them are not
familiar with area agencies onaging.
Jennifer Hiatt (16:15):
I wasn't before I started at the city.
I've been a planner for 10years before I came here, and it
wasn't until I started here andthey're under or partner with
our department that I was likeoh, that's a thing.
Danielle Arigoni (16:25):
Okay, isn't it fascinating?
Exactly and again, I think partof it's because they're often
at the county level and manyplanners work at the city level,
but for any number of reasonsthere's that real disconnect.
Another mechanism I thinkthat's like super powerful is
the age-friendly network.
You know the age-friendlyframework and maybe we'll talk
about that a little bit more.
But when I was at AARP I workedthere for five years as a
(16:49):
director of livable communitiesthe flagship program for AARP
was something called the Networkof Age-Friendly States and
Communities, and what that doesis it invites communities to
establish a partnership ofdiverse stakeholders with the
goal in mind of making thatcommunity whether it's a city, a
town, a hamlet, a county, astate more age-friendly, a
better place for people to age.
And that sort of framework isreally valuable and useful for
(17:12):
again making those connectionsand starting to think about how
we deploy community resiliencefor older adults.
Stephanie Rouse (17:18):
So Lincoln just became an age-friendly
community through the AARPnetwork in January.
That's great, yeah, so it'scomprised of, I think, eight or
nine different city departmentsor directors are all on the
committee and I'm not sure wherethey're at in the plan that
they need to develop, but we'restarting down the path of
becoming the age-friendlycommunity here in Lincoln.
Danielle Arigoni (17:39):
That's awesome , and what I think you'll find
if you haven't already is it's areally great table to invite
other partners to as well,whether it's universities or
health centers or even villages,which are sort of kind of
informal networks that areestablished to support older
adults who want to age in place.
It becomes a really, I think,flexible and versatile table to
(18:00):
bring diverse folks together,and it holds a lot of promise, I
think, for being able to dothis kind of work.
Yeah.
Stephanie Rouse (18:06):
I'm excited to see where it goes.
You also discuss the disabilityinclusive disaster risk
reduction framework that startedin Australia in the book.
Between these two, have youfound a specific framework
that's easier for communities toimplement, that focuses on both
aging and climate resilience?
Danielle Arigoni (18:25):
Yeah, I think it almost doesn't matter what
framework you use.
I think and again I'll invokesort of the reflections I have
from being at AARP Somecommunities come to this work
because they're thinking aboutthe needs of people who live in
their community with dementia.
So they'll utilize a dementiaplanning framework to really
think about how do people withdementia thrive in their
(18:45):
community.
So, whether you're coming at itfrom any one of those
frameworks or others, I thinkthe important thing is to sort
of establish a common goal,which is that we value and we
intend to create a place thatworks better for older adults,
and we recognize that in doingso you are helping people with
disabilities, you are helpingpeople of all ages, you are
helping people of differentlanguage abilities and different
(19:07):
internet access.
There's a whole bunch of sortof vectors that flow from that,
that when you center the needsof older adults and the
realities of their experienceagain, you kind of unlock
solutions that benefit othergroups.
So I have a personal affinityfor the AARP Age-Friendly
Framework.
Having worked on it for a while, I don't think that many
communities yet have centeredclimate through that process.
(19:28):
There's a great opportunity todo so, however, and one of the
tools that we were able to putout while I was still.
There was something called theDisaster Resilience Toolkit that
was co-branded by AARP and FEMA, and it serves as kind of a
roadmap for age-friendlycommunities to really think
about how you might betterprepare for disasters.
So I think that's a greatstarting point.
There's a lot more to be done,because the impacts of climate
(19:50):
change are increasingly evidentoutside of disasters as well.
Jennifer Hiatt (19:55):
So I feel like we've already touched on this a
little bit, but there are justso many groups working
tangentially trying to pull allthat together.
I think one of the best thingsthat planners can do is see
dispersed networks and thenbring them into one.
So what would you say issomething that planners could
advocate for to bring togetheror like centralized information
(20:17):
systems and ensure that disastercommunication is clear and
available to everyone in theircommunity.
So I was thinking, like ourtornado alerts or whatever went
off, but like if you're hard ofhearing, how are you supposed to
know that the tornado is coming?
So, how can planners be a toolto bring all of these groups
together and communicateeffectively?
Danielle Arigoni (20:37):
I do think you're right that planners sit
at a really unique intersectionbetween those two kind of silos
that I talked about the sort ofclimate and emergency response
planning and the aging planning.
It requires plannersrecognizing that there's an
aging planning effort underwayand bringing them in.
But I do think that plannerscan play an incredibly valuable
role here.
I'll be honest, the reality isthat there isn't any one group,
(21:01):
I would say, that yet has sortof seized on this intersection
of climate and aging.
I think because it is somulti-sectoral in some ways it
almost kind of falls between thecracks, like no one sees it as
100% in their bailiwick, and sono one has kind of like grabbed
onto it and said we're going tomake sure that everybody knows
about this.
(21:22):
I think, frankly, apa could bethat group right, like they
could be the ones to say, asplanners, we have the commitment
to ensuring that we're bothplanning for our climate future
and that we are doing so witheyes wide open about demographic
change and really driving thismessage in a pretty strong way.
And the other thing is, I wouldsay, is that you know, there's
a real opportunity for climateaffiliated groups and for aging
(21:43):
advocates to sort of championthis issue.
But, yeah, I do think plannerssit at a really valuable
intersection and every planningdocument that someone touches,
whether it's a housing plan or aconsolidated plan,
comprehensive plan,transportation plan,
infrastructure plan, all ofthose, I really believe that
they would be made better byasking and answering the
(22:04):
question how does this reducerisk for older adults in the
face of climate change?
Because I guarantee you thereare opportunities in every
single one of those plans, andmore, to do so, but you're not
going to get that result unlessyou ask that question.
Stephanie Rouse (22:16):
Yeah, with our comprehensive plan for the city
of Lincoln, Lancaster County, weaddress climate change and we
reference our climate actionplan and there's a focus there
and we briefly kind of touch onplanning for older adults in the
current 2050.
Every five years we do anupdate and so there is going to
be a bigger focus on planningfor aging residents in the
(22:37):
community and I think I'll kindof push breaking those silos
down and making it more of ajoint conversation between
climate and planning for olderadults.
Danielle Arigoni (22:46):
Yeah, that's exactly what's needed.
You know, in the book I talkabout the state of New York as
being a real laboratory and casestudy for this work.
You know, state of New York.
I know that Nebraskans probablydon't like to be compared to
New York you know it's notreally.
They're like it's not relevant.
But the point of this isrelevant is that New York, on
(23:08):
the one hand, is a real leaderin climate.
They have very ambitious goalsand a very ambitious climate
action plan at the state level.
They're also a real leader oncommitment to age-friendly
growth and age-friendlydevelopment.
They're the first state to jointhe AARP network.
However, their multi-sector planfor aging and their climate
action plan are wholly divorced.
They are not connected.
I don't think there are evendotted lines that connect them.
Again, it chafes me a littlebit, because I see the
(23:32):
connection points.
For example, a community thatdevelops a climate action plan
that says we're going to investin more renewable energy, we're
going to make sure our housingstock is more climate resilient
and more energy efficient.
That's fantastic.
That's exactly the direction weneed to go.
But those activities and thosetasks and those tactics could be
prioritizing older adults, notjust because they help people
(23:54):
who need the help the most, whohave the most utility cost
burden, who are more at riskbecause of their health to
extreme heat, but in so doing,you'd also be, first of all,
meeting people really where theyhave the needs.
I mean this work of making homesmore energy efficient and
bringing in renewable energy ispretty daunting for anyone.
It's really daunting for olderadults, particularly those who
(24:17):
lack savings.
But when you do that, you'realso starting to convert the
housing stock in ways thatbenefit not just that particular
homeowner but the futureresidents.
So let's center older adults inall of the summer sort of
climate planning that we'rethinking about and at the same
time let's really examine theclimate risks that come from our
aging plan.
Have more mobility in theircommunity, because we know that
(24:41):
they outlive their ability todrive anywhere from seven to 10
years or longer.
Then let's think about climateneutral solutions or climate
beneficial solutions to doingthat Investing in public transit
, investing in walkable andbikeable communities.
You can achieve a lot of sortof dual goals by focusing on
that intersection.
Stephanie Rouse (25:00):
So in the book you identify 25 strategies and
six categories for age-friendlyresilience, covering energy,
housing, mobility, socialinfrastructure, education and
emergency management.
We, like, I'm sure, manycommunities, excel in a few of
these areas, but we leave someothers pretty stagnant or don't
address them.
How can communities better acton each of these areas to ensure
(25:22):
a more holistic approach toage-friendly resilience?
Danielle Arigoni (25:25):
act on each of these areas to ensure a more
holistic approach toage-friendly resilience.
I think it really starts withidentifying who older adults are
and where they live.
When I do talks on the book, Ioften ask audiences how many
people do you think live incongregate facilities?
What percentage of older adultsdo you think live in congregate
facilities?
And many people will say like40%, 20%.
The reality is that 2% of olderadults live in congregate
(25:47):
facilities.
98% of them live in thecommunity and of those, about
30% live alone.
So I think you know, whetherit's housing or transportation
or health or utilities, you haveto really start by grounding
yourself in where older adultslive and what are the challenges
that they confront, whetherit's housing and the cost of
(26:07):
housing, particularly now thathousing is growing more
expensive because utilities andinsurance are rising really
rapidly.
We know that that is leading tomore older adults who are
housing cost burdened than everbefore.
According to the Harvard JointCenter for Housing Studies,
that's 50% of renters olderrenters are housing cost
burdened and a quarter of olderhomeowners.
So this is not just a renter'sproblem and homeowners are fine.
(26:30):
No more people are housing costburdened than ever before among
older adults, and so, whetheryou're thinking about housing or
transportation or any of thoseother sectors.
I think it really starts inlike grounding yourself in the
realities of how older adultsare living today and with the
experiences that they have today, and not assuming that because
we've planned for the nursinghomes and because we've planned
for the assisted livingfacilities, we're good.
(26:51):
That's great, but that reachesa very few of the older adult
population.
Jennifer Hiatt (26:57):
Although you're probably right that Nebraska
does not like to be compared toNew York, you do have multiple
case studies, and case studiesare very helpful showing what
communities are doing right.
So what are one or two of yourfavorite examples for something
that you think is going well inthe climate resilience planning
arena?
Danielle Arigoni (27:15):
The good news is, the more I talk to groups,
the more great examples I hearyou know of innovative work
that's happening at the locallevel.
But from the book, two of myfavorites that I like to lift up
are one City of Portland, whichI know people sometimes roll
their eyes because City ofPortland, you know, and
sustainability always getmentioned.
But City of Portland and thecounty of Multnomah, multnomah
County, in which City ofPortland resides, have really
(27:38):
done some interesting workaround both age-friendly
planning and sort of climateresilience planning.
So in 2021, the PacificNorthwest endured some pretty
dramatic heat waves that led toa thousand people dying and in
Multnomah County the average agewas 67.
So they recognized that thiswas something that was
disproportionately impactingtheir older adults.
They were able to, by virtue ofthe pre-existing partnership
(28:02):
between the city and county andbecause of their prior
commitment to being anage-friendly community, they
were able to sort of leveragecounty and city apparatus, if
you will, to respond to thoseheat waves.
What they did was they kind ofrepurposed a network that had
been established during COVID toreach older adults in their
homes through sort of trustedneighborhood organizations often
(28:24):
that were very sort ofculturally relevant and
culturally trusted, so thatpeople weren't fearful when you
come knocking on the door with agreat idea or something to
offer them.
These were groups that werealready known and trusted and
they paired that with a programto deploy portable air
conditioning units and theyprioritized households that were
lived in or headed by olderadults, that were low income and
(28:46):
that had people withdisabilities in them.
They did that in a way thatkind of overcame all the hurdles
that older adults mightexperience in taking steps to
cool their homes, because manyNorthwest homes are not filled
with air conditioning.
And that program continuestoday.
The air conditioning isinstalled for free, it's done by
people who are trusted andknown and it meets ultra-adult
to where they're at, which is intheir homes.
(29:07):
So I love that example and Ilove that it continues year over
year.
The other one I love talkingabout is an activity that was
born out of New Orleans and it'sled by a group called Together
New Orleans and this kind ofemerged, as New Orleans is just
the front lines and the punchingbag, honestly, in the US for
climate change time and timeagain, and it's been interesting
(29:29):
, I think, as they would say, tosee their own shift in how they
respond.
You know, 20 years ago theresponse was evacuate let's get
people out of harm's way.
We know now that, and theyrecognize that that brings other
risks for older adults whocan't access medical care, for
whom their lives are disruptedin a pretty significant way, and
many other reasons whyevacuation is no longer the
(29:51):
response of choice.
Instead, they help people toshelter in place and in doing
that, they recognize that one ofthe most common side effects or
byproducts of these disastersis what you just described,
jennifer, of these blackouts,right Power outages for days or
weeks.
So they are seeing and in factwe continue to see.
Just recently I read an articleabout Hurricane Beryl and some
(30:12):
of the deaths in Texas thatresulted from the power outages
there, in which predictablythree quarters of the people who
died were older adults.
New Orleans recognized that andsaid we need to figure this out.
And what they did is they cameup with a very sort of
community-driven response, whichis to create something called
community lighthouses throughoutthe city and actually I think
it's extending beyond NewOrleans as well and these
(30:34):
community lighthouses are ofteninstalled in community serving
facilities, whether healthcenters, churches, senior
centers, things like that.
They include solar panelschurches, senior centers, things
like that.
They include solar panels,backup storage, basic
necessities, food, water.
They serve as a gathering pointfor people in times of crisis,
cooling centers when they'reneeded, warming centers when
they're needed.
(30:55):
But the thing that makes themreally special is that they are
meant to serve a very fixed area, and the volunteers associated
with that community lighthousego out and knock on the doors
regularly for all the people inthat service area to make sure
that they're known ahead of timeand to make sure that they
really understand what olderadults' needs are, so that they
don't have to worry about canthey show up at the lighthouse
(31:17):
with a pet, or can they show upand get their oxygen machine
plugged in.
They know that their needs arealready understood and they've
established that relationshipahead of time.
So it's the dual task ofcreating the infrastructure but
pairing that with the sort ofsocial resilience that goes
along with it, and I think indoing that they solve for one of
(31:37):
the challenges that I've heardin other situations around
community resilience hubs, whichis people who build a great
resilience hub.
They have this great coolingcenter, but they haven't asked
the question of how are peoplegoing to get here, and so that
really leaves people who don'tdrive high and dry and unable to
access those services, whereasthe community lighthouses in New
Orleans are all within walkingdistance.
Jennifer Hiatt (31:58):
It's interesting that you mentioned places that
don't generally have airconditioning.
I just spent the weekend inCanada and on my perspective, I
was escaping some hot weather.
In Nebraska we got to 105.
But up there we actuallyreached 90 and had no way to
(32:19):
deal with that.
It was incredibly hot, therewere no air conditioners and
then it rained and it never getsto 90 in August up there and it
never rains in August up there.
In four days experience thatand the area that we were at was
actually somewhat older peopleand they were just like what are
we even going to do?
And just fanning themselves andI was like get air conditioners
(32:41):
, my Atlanta, but it's not thatsimple.
It's not that simple toretrofit a house with air
conditioning or bring inportable air conditioners.
It's very challenging.
Danielle Arigoni (32:52):
Exactly, and I think you know again, there are
any number of barriers forpeople to do that.
First of all, dropping 500bucks, getting to the.
Home Depot, picking it up,installing it.
You know, you think literallyabout older adults, particularly
those who are older.
Older adults have difficultymoving heavy equipment.
I mean this is we can't assumethat any of this stuff is easy.
For many it is, but not for all.
And then the other thing thatis really difficult increasingly
(33:16):
is just utility costs and whatthat's going to mean for
electricity bills.
I read a report recently thatsaid something like 7 million
people older adults, routinelygo without food or medicine or
to pay their utility bills.
So utility costs are already areally, really hard and, I think
, untold part of the economiccrisis.
Utilities are difficult tomanage and I think we often
(33:37):
forget about that.
So even the presumption thatyou can just plug in an air
conditioner and be good to go alot of people might not do that
because they can't afford theincrease in their utility bills
that will follow.
Stephanie Rouse (33:47):
So I really like the community lighthouse
example and it gets to threethemes that I kind of picked up
on in your book, which arecommunication, collaboration and
coordination For communitiesthat haven't started down the
path of climate resilienceplanning or age-friendly
designations.
Who should be the one startingthis conversation and you kind
of touched on this earlier alittle bit but the groups that
are key to starting this workwith focusing on resilience for
(34:11):
an aging nation, I think there'sreally a role for all sectors
here.
Danielle Arigoni (34:16):
I mean, I think the leadership can come
from any one of them.
It could come from theDepartment of Emergency
Management, or from the AreaAgency on Aging, or from the
Senior Center, or from theHealth Department, or from the
Planning Department.
It can really come from any oneof those sectors.
Ideally, it would integratepeople from all of those sectors
and more.
It would include the utilities,who have a lot of capabilities
(34:38):
to lighten the load, if you will, for older adults and encourage
energy efficiency incentivesand payment plans and things
like that.
It would include transportationfolks, who can be more
thoughtful about not justdesigning public transit systems
but ensuring that stops areshaded and have seating, because
, again, on that 105 degree dayor whatever, jennifer, that you
(35:00):
mentioned, in Lincoln, someonewho maybe is a regular bus rider
might not go out and stand inthe sun for 10 minutes waiting
for the bus.
They need shade, they need aplace to sit.
This is again, that's, anexample of one of those sort of
age layering on top of otherrisks that warrants a little bit
more consideration For housingfolks.
If they're coming at this assort of leading the charge, this
(35:23):
is a real opportunity toadvocate for more housing choice
in the community, for theconstruction of smaller, denser,
more tightly connected homesthat reduce energy costs because
they're smaller and maybe havesome shared walls so you're not
paying quite as much for heatingand cooling.
But the other thing aboutdifferent housing modalities
other than single familydetached, is that it fosters
(35:45):
more of a social network thatlets people kind of check on
each other informally and weknow that makes a difference in
saving lives.
We knew that since 1995 whenEric Kleinenberg researched the
Chicago heat wave and he reallypointed a spotlight on the
importance of connectedness andprotecting people.
So I think all of those groupsand more can lead.
I would say I'll go back tothat question of anyone can ask
(36:08):
and answer the question how doesthis activity, this policy,
this program reduce risk forolder adults in the face of
climate change?
And that needs to be just partand parcel of how we all do our
work going forward.
So I would say that's kind of areally clear consideration that
anyone listening can askthemselves and frankly, to bring
up at those meetings withcolleagues when you're making
(36:30):
decisions.
Jennifer Hiatt (36:32):
Understanding that communities aren't really
quite as far along as theyshould be in assisting older
adults, not to put it back tothat personal individual
readiness.
But what is one piece of adviceyou would give someone who is
listening, who is either anolder adult themselves or has an
older adult in their family, tomake sure that they are
preparing for disaster to thebest of their individual
(36:52):
abilities?
Danielle Arigoni (36:54):
Yeah, it's both right.
I don't mean to suggest at allthat individuals have no role we
obviously do.
We all have to play a role herebut that community resilience
kind of web or social networkbehind is so important.
But I think what you can do atan individual level is to see if
there's a special needsregistry in your community.
Oftentimes these exist, butmaybe not well publicized, and
what that means is that you cansort of self-identify to your
(37:17):
emergency management group teamoffice as an older adult, as
someone who needs additionalhelp.
Frankly, I don't think you needto be an older adult to sign up
for these things I'm quite sureyou don't.
But it might be helpful forpeople who don't drive anymore
or who have physical limitationsor who live with dementia to
make themselves known and maketheir unique needs known to
(37:37):
people who they might then turnto for support in times of
disaster.
That helps everyone.
That puts them on the radarscreen.
I don't know the degree towhich this is happening, but I
think lists like that can alsobe really useful for utilities
as they think about where toprioritize power restoration.
If you are someone who liveswith in-home medical equipment
(37:58):
on which you rely, you need tobe on that list for priority
reinstatement of power, andwhether that means reaching out
to the utility directly or goingthrough your emergency
management department, I thinkthose are two things that people
can do proactively.
Stephanie Rouse (38:12):
And as this is booked on planning, in addition
to your book, which we recommendeveryone get a copy of, what
books would you recommend ourreaders check out?
Danielle Arigoni (38:20):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, love for people to readthis.
Two other books I personallylove and think really highly of.
Both of them are out of IslandPress, which is the publishing
house that did this book.
That helped me bring this bookto life.
One is called UnderstandingDisaster Insurance New Tools for
a More Resilient Future byCarolyn Kowski.
It really kind of unpacks theinsurance industry in ways I
(38:41):
think are totally fascinatingand describes just how important
insurance is as a safety netfor people from their financial
standpoint and how inadequate itis.
Frankly, insurance is radicallychanging in many parts of the
country, growing ever moreexpensive, sometimes
disappearing altogether asinsurance agencies leave, and
understanding the market thatkind of drives those decisions I
(39:03):
think is really interesting andwhat it sort of portends for
our future.
The other one that I amenamored of is called when
Driving is Not an Option by AnnaZiverts.
It is honestly supereye-opening in terms of
understanding mobility needs forpeople.
She is a vision impairedactivist in Seattle area, she's
(39:23):
a transportation advocate, she'sa total powerhouse and she
really thoughtfully gathersinformation from both the
Seattle area and from across thecountry to sort of channel the
experience of non-drivers.
And this can be for any numberof reasons for economic reasons,
for reasons of disability, forreasons of choice.
She estimates that as much as30% of any community is a
(39:44):
non-driver.
But we don't plan for them verywell, we really don't.
I always chuckle when she'llpost on social media you know,
job announcements by theDepartment of Transportation in
that area that serve publictransit that say driver's
license is required.
She's like this is ironic, likewhat's going on.
So, anyway, I highly recommendthat book and following Anna
Zeeberts and Carolyn Kowski.
Stephanie Rouse (40:05):
Yeah, we have Anna's book on our schedule to
do early next year, because Ilistened to a webinar where she
was part of a panel and she'sjust has such good insight and I
think it really opens your eyeto a new perspective, totally.
Danielle Arigoni (40:18):
And super accessible to like.
It's really easy to understand,not overly technical.
Stephanie Rouse (40:22):
Well, danielle, thank you again for joining us
on Book John Planning to talkabout your book Climate
Resilience for an Aging Nation.
Danielle Arigoni (40:29):
Thank you so much.
It's been a real pleasure totalk with you both.
Jennifer Hiatt (40:33):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation with
author Danielle Aragoni on herbook Climate Resilience for an
Aging Nation.
You can get your own copythrough the publisher at Island
Press, or click the link in theshow notes to take you directly
to our affiliate page.
Remember to subscribe to theshow wherever you listen to
podcasts and please rate, reviewand share the show.
Thank you.
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(00:45):
You're listening to the BookedOn Planning podcast, a project
of the Nebraska chapter of theAmerican Planning Association.
In each episode we dive intohow cities function by talking
with authors on housing,transportation and everything in
between.
Join us as we get Booked onPlanning.
Welcome back, bookworms, toanother episode of Booked on
(01:12):
Planning.
In this episode we talk withauthor Danielle Aragoni on her
book Climate Resilience for anAging Nation.
Danielle is the ManagingDirector for Policy and
Solutions at National HousingTrust, but she previously served
as the Director of LivableCommunities at AARP.
In her book and ourconversation we discussed the
AARP Age-Friendly Network thatshe had a part in during her
(01:33):
time with the organization.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:35):
It was interesting to read climate
resilience just as Lincoln wasexperiencing weather-related
emergencies.
I was actually really proud ofour emergency response that our
city team had, but it alsoreally made me think about
everything that we could bedoing to do better.
Stephanie Rouse (01:49):
Yes, we get into the fact that, while we
have places for people to go inthe event of extreme heat, we
also don't extend those hoursbeyond 7 pm when the library
closes.
So things to work on Exactly.
This book had me Googling whatwe were doing as a community
here in Lincoln every fewchapters.
I knew that we'd become anage-friendly community in
(02:11):
January of this year, but reallyhad no idea on the specifics of
it beyond that or what we weredoing for our planning process.
It also made me curious tofigure out what our percentage
of older adults is here inLincoln that live outside of
congregate facilities, given thenational average, which is that
only 2% of older adults livewithin a nursing home or
retirement community.
Jennifer Hiatt (02:32):
Yeah, I have to admit that I was a little
embarrassed that you were theperson who told me that we
received that designation.
So, as Danielle states, it doestake a blend of personal action
and community support to makesure that you are ready for a
disaster.
One of my favorite aspects ofthe book was the social
component.
You will almost always be oneof the actual first responders
(02:52):
in your neighborhood, so gettingto know your neighbors and any
special needs that they mighthave is important, so you can
kind of come together and pullresources that way.
Stephanie Rouse (03:00):
We touched on this in the conversation, but
there is so much focus onplanning for marginalized groups
that can include older adults.
However, it's not usuallycalled out separately.
Danielle argues that we need tofirst plan for older adults,
which will make our communitiesmore resilient overall, because
age compounds all other factorsthat make climate resilience a
challenge.
Jennifer Hiatt (03:20):
And I actually thought that was a really
poignant take.
Aging is hopefully one of theexperiences that we all will
have, so it's important to planfor it.
Let's get into our conversationwith author Daniel Aragoni on
the climate resilience for anaging nation.
Stephanie Rouse (03:36):
Daniel, thank you for joining us on Booked On
Planning to talk about your bookClimate Resilience for an Aging
Nation.
A troubling trend in climatefuel disasters like Hurricane
Katrina show.
Older adults over 65consistently make up two-thirds
or more of the death tolls.
Hurricane Katrina was nearly 20years ago, but we still aren't
focusing on older adults whenpreparing for disaster
mitigation plans or duringrecovery efforts.
(03:59):
Why do you think it's taking solong for this to become a?
Danielle Arigoni (04:01):
priority.
First of all, thanks for havingme, stephanie and Jennifer.
I'm really happy to be here.
I wish I knew why it was takingso long.
Honestly, I find it troublingmyself.
I'm a planner, educated in theplanning field.
I've worked kind of on thefringes of planning for 20 plus
years in the federal governmentand nonprofit sector and I think
part of it is the reality thatwe just don't really talk about
(04:24):
aging in our planning profession.
We tend to think aboutcommunities as kind of a
monolith, and I think there'scertainly more awareness around
income differentiations and raceand ethnicity, but age is often
not discussed in that samecontext and the thing that that
results in is really blind spots, as I have come to think of
them as around the needs ofolder adults, so that when we're
(04:44):
designing housing or parks orpublic transit we're not
necessarily thinking about theneeds of older adults as being a
specific cohort.
I think, thanks to ADA andother laws, there's a heightened
awareness of people withdisabilities and a need to
accommodate that.
But the reality is that agingbrings with it kind of a
constellation of realities thatmake it difficult for oftentimes
(05:04):
for people to navigate theirown communities and certainly
for them to age in place.
So I think that that compoundssort of why we're at where we're
at with these trends.
Another reason, frankly, isthat there's two kind of siloed
approaches to this.
There's kind of one group oforganizations and institutions
that are thinking about how weplan for climate those are the
chief resilience officers andthe engineers and the
(05:26):
climatologists.
And then we've got a totallydifferent set that is thinking
about preparing for an older,grayer future, and those are the
aging advocates and thegerontologists and the
demographers, and they don'toften talk.
They're quite siloed.
So I think that's anotherreason we see these really
troubling trends.
Jennifer Hiatt (05:42):
I actually had an interaction a few years ago
with another planner thattroubled me a little, not in a
bad way, but we were talkingwith a small town about
infrastructure needs and I madethe comment that you should
start planning your small townaround what your grandparents
need, because a lot of ruralNebraska at least, is aging.
Danielle Arigoni (06:01):
Absolutely.
Jennifer Hiatt (06:02):
Those small towns aren't getting any smaller
, and one of the other plannersthat I was working with they
were like well, that seems likeit's very backwards looking.
I like to talk about how weshould plan a community around,
how a mom could push a strolleraround, and that meets the same
requirements.
I was like it really doesn't,though, and I think that you
know we're God willing, we'reall going to be older adults in
(06:25):
our future.
We don't have as much of thatconcept of being young and
trying to navigate when you'relittle, so I thought that was
just kind of an odd take.
Danielle Arigoni (06:33):
It is and I think it's honestly pretty
reflective Even when we thinkabout economic development
strategies.
A lot of you know economicdevelopment strategies are
premised on how do we attractmillennials, how do we attract
Gen Zs to come and sort ofpopulate our communities.
The reality is that the olderadult demographic is the fastest
growing one, so people over 65are growing faster than any
other age cohort and that we'revery close to reaching a tip on
(06:55):
point in about 10 years wherewe're going to have more people
over 65 than we will under 18for the first time ever.
And, as you pointed out, manycommunities are already there
Nebraska, rural Nebraska morethan a quarter, I imagine, are
older adults.
There's a story on NPR justthis week about Montana where
already rural places are morethan 25% of their population is
(07:15):
people over 60.
That's the case in Maine andmany other rural communities
across the country and frankly,that's where we're headed as a
nation.
So let's plan for that cohortbecause it is growing, because
we will all be there, godwilling, as you said, and
because when you solve for theneeds of older adults you do
also solve for the needs ofpeople with other ages.
It's kind of the curb cuteffect of plan for the stroller,
(07:37):
plan, for the walker, plan, forthe person in a wheelchair.
You benefit all of those groups.
But I really do and I've cometo believe that when you center
the needs of older adults inplanning, especially climate
resilience planning, it kind ofunlocks solutions that there
were previously not thoughtabout, not considered and
therefore not implemented.
Jennifer Hiatt (07:55):
Just to put us all on the same page as we go
throughout this discussion, canyou tell us who you are talking
about when you say older adults,because I'm sure everyone has a
different demographic in theirhead?
And, interestingly, from yourbook, why don't we use the term
elderly?
Danielle Arigoni (08:09):
Yeah, you know , the definition of what is an
older adult, I think, is one ofthe most interesting things of
this whole discussion and,frankly, I think it's part of
why we do overlook older adultsin planning, because we can't
neatly define them.
Everyone knows that a child issomeone under 18, but, depending
on how you define it, an olderadult can be someone over 50
when they start to get theirAARP publications and marketing.
(08:31):
They can be someone over 55when they qualify for retirement
community, someone over 62 whenyou can qualify for social
security, or 65 when you canapply for Medicare.
There's all these differentmarks.
So there is this very nebulousconcept of who is an older adult
and when do you become one.
So I think that in some waysthat's fine, right, it doesn't
really matter what we decide.
(08:51):
But the flip side of that isyou can't manage what you can't
measure.
And if we're not measuring thequantity of people that are in
whatever we decide to be as theolder adult cohort, then we
can't effectively engage them,we can't effectively plan for
their needs the cohort then wecan't effectively engage them,
we can't effectively plan fortheir needs.
The reason I don't use the wordelderly is because I think it
(09:11):
connotes frailty frankly, notalways.
Obviously there are manyelderly people who are not frail
, but I think that the imagethat comes to mind when you hear
elderly is someone of physicalfrailties.
And I think one of the mostamazing things about the older
adult cohort, particularly as itgrows, you see this incredible
array of ages and abilitieswithin that own cohort.
I think about my own mom who's83 and walks three miles a day
and is still a very active realestate agent, kicking butt,
(09:33):
doing great stuff.
There are other people who aremuch younger, who have much more
difficulty with mobility ornavigability, all of these
things.
So it's a very varied groupwhich just speaks to the term
older adults as, I think, beinga little bit more expansive and
inclusive.
Stephanie Rouse (09:48):
Yeah, I'd agree If we were using the term
elderly.
I wouldn't put my parents inthat category just because of
the connotations that you kindof described, but they're
definitely in the older adultcategory and is the group that
we need to start planning for.
Yeah, so much of the work onclimate change and preparedness
has begun to focus onmarginalized group, which tends
to include older adults butdoesn't really call them out
(10:10):
specifically.
How does a climate changeapproach look different when we
focus specifically on age,versus just clumping everyone
together as a marginalized group?
Danielle Arigoni (10:20):
I think that we're starting to see some
greater awareness within some ofthe agencies and organizations
that are seeking to servemarginalized people.
We're seeing some progress interms of a greater need to
identify vulnerable andmarginalized populations, an
example being FEMA in its mostrecent guidance around the state
hazard mitigation plans.
(10:40):
They're moving towards guidancethat is more inclusive of
vulnerabilities that come fromsocioeconomic conditions.
So that's good.
Previously they kind of focusedon buildings and hard
infrastructure being at risk.
They're moving towards a placeof what sort of risks emerge
when you think about thevulnerabilities of a population.
But the downside of that sort ofclumping together to just say
(11:01):
marginalized people is that youreally lose the detail around
the unique needs of older adults.
And I think you know if youthink about low-income people or
you think about people of color, or you think about people with
disabilities all of thoseelements age stacks on top of
them.
So if someone already is livingwith poor access to healthcare
by virtue of them living in arural community or living in a
(11:24):
disinvested community, when youlayer on top of that the fact
that they're aging, thatdifference and that differential
becomes even more acute.
Similarly, for someone who islow income Low income people are
struggling in many differentways, but as an older adult
who's low income, the riskincreases because there aren't
the sort of job opportunitiesthat maybe there once were.
There aren't as many years ofearning capacity or capability
(11:45):
to save money as there once were.
The age risks layer on top ofall of those other
vulnerabilities, which is why Ithink it's really essential to
kind of tease it out.
I think a lot ofpresuppositions and assumptions
get made about vulnerable peopleand who they are and what they
look like, but the reality isthat you really need to kind of
tease out who lives in yourcommunity, what are the actual
(12:06):
risks that they face whetherit's housing insecurity or
limited access to health care orlimited access to
transportation and start tobetter define those so that you
can work to address them.
Jennifer Hiatt (12:18):
Kind of in that vein.
Another paradigm shift that youtalk about in the book is that
we need to shift from thedefault focus of individual
disaster preparedness toproviding resources on community
or group preparedness, andLincoln actually just
experienced this.
Last week we had a massivewindstorm that came through.
It knocked out a bunch of powerand I thought our community did
(12:40):
a pretty good job in that itput out information of, like you
know, please go here, these areplaces.
Then Stephanie and I talkedabout how, like, the library
closes at seven.
So even though the library wasone of the places where you
should go, you didn't have aplace all night and a lot of the
conversation started focusingaround oh man, we should be like
(13:01):
buying generators from ourhouse, and it was an interesting
microcosm of reading this bookand then having a little mini
disaster happen all at the sametime.
What would this look like andhow can communities start to
begin sourcing those resourcesnow, because obviously it's just
getting worse and worse?
Danielle Arigoni (13:17):
It is.
Yeah, the need for this shiftis is really urgent.
You know, I think as Americanswe're very sort of
individualistic and very, youknow, sort of we could do it
ourselves, and in many waysthat's a really great trait of
Americans.
I think the downside of that isthat there's a lot of
assumptions that people can't orare able to prepare equally,
and the reality is that, again,older adults often can't.
(13:37):
You know, we think aboutsomeone who lives on a fixed
income.
It's really hard for them tostockpile two weeks of food and
medicine or to buy an airconditioner.
Just this morning I was lookinginto portable air conditioners
for a family friend of ourswho's in her 80s was in a mobile
home.
It gets really really reallydangerously hot in her home and
she did not have the wherewithalto go drop 500 bucks on a
(13:58):
portable air conditioner.
That's the reality for a lot ofpeople.
So when you think aboutindividual preparedness and well
, everybody can do it forthemselves there's a lot of
limitations to that.
Think about someone who liveswith dementia.
Think about someone who hasmore urgent needs in terms of
caregiving for someone who's athome, whether it's a spouse or
an adult child with a disabilityor any of those other
(14:19):
responsibilities.
It just there's a lot of, Ithink, false expectations around
what people can do to beprepared, and oftentimes what I
kind of saw in my research isthat a lot of the people who
died in Hurricane Ian and otherdisasters it's not that they
hadn't prepared, it's that therewere really unrealistic
expectations about what it meansto be prepared and what is the
role of that social safety netthat people count on that all of
(14:41):
a sudden dissipates whenemergencies strike.
So how do we shift to more of asort of communal, interdependent
way of thinking aboutpreparedness?
I really lean into the sort ofcommunity resilience frame and I
think about it as a safety net,think about it as that web of
connection that we knowactivates in times of disaster.
Every community that hasexperienced something the one
(15:02):
you just described in Lincoln,many others.
You hear these amazing storiesof neighbors helping neighbors
and people coming together tosupport one another so that
energy is there.
What's missing is the structureto bring people together to do
that before the disaster strikes, and I think that there's a lot
of mechanisms already in placethat have the potential to
harness that energy.
But again, it starts with asingular goal, which is we're
(15:24):
aiming to reduce risk for olderadults in our community, and
we're going to do that now andtomorrow and the next day and
we're not going to wait untilthe disaster strikes.
So some of the groups that Ithink are really well positioned
to do that are groups like theArea Agencies on Aging, which
often act at a county level andprovide supports to seniors, to
older adults in the community,delivered meals on wheels.
(15:44):
Usually they think abouttransportation and mobility
needs.
They have an infrastructure inplace already that is connected
to older adults where they're atat a really granular level.
But I can't tell you the numberof planners I've talked to that
have never heard of an areaagency on aging.
It's just not a natural partnerthat we think about sort of
from the land use side and itneeds to be like we need to be
(16:06):
making those connections now.
I would say I don't come fromthe emergency response world but
I would harbor the similar betthat many of them are not
familiar with area agencies onaging.
Jennifer Hiatt (16:15):
I wasn't before I started at the city.
I've been a planner for 10years before I came here, and it
wasn't until I started here andthey're under or partner with
our department that I was likeoh, that's a thing.
Danielle Arigoni (16:25):
Okay, isn't it fascinating?
Exactly and again, I think partof it's because they're often
at the county level and manyplanners work at the city level,
but for any number of reasonsthere's that real disconnect.
Another mechanism I thinkthat's like super powerful is
the age-friendly network.
You know the age-friendlyframework and maybe we'll talk
about that a little bit more.
But when I was at AARP I workedthere for five years as a
(16:49):
director of livable communitiesthe flagship program for AARP
was something called the Networkof Age-Friendly States and
Communities, and what that doesis it invites communities to
establish a partnership ofdiverse stakeholders with the
goal in mind of making thatcommunity whether it's a city, a
town, a hamlet, a county, astate more age-friendly, a
better place for people to age.
And that sort of framework isreally valuable and useful for
(17:12):
again making those connectionsand starting to think about how
we deploy community resiliencefor older adults.
Stephanie Rouse (17:18):
So Lincoln just became an age-friendly
community through the AARPnetwork in January.
That's great, yeah, so it'scomprised of, I think, eight or
nine different city departmentsor directors are all on the
committee and I'm not sure wherethey're at in the plan that
they need to develop, but we'restarting down the path of
becoming the age-friendlycommunity here in Lincoln.
Danielle Arigoni (17:39):
That's awesome , and what I think you'll find
if you haven't already is it's areally great table to invite
other partners to as well,whether it's universities or
health centers or even villages,which are sort of kind of
informal networks that areestablished to support older
adults who want to age in place.
It becomes a really, I think,flexible and versatile table to
(18:00):
bring diverse folks together,and it holds a lot of promise, I
think, for being able to dothis kind of work.
Yeah.
Stephanie Rouse (18:06):
I'm excited to see where it goes.
You also discuss the disabilityinclusive disaster risk
reduction framework that startedin Australia in the book.
Between these two, have youfound a specific framework
that's easier for communities toimplement, that focuses on both
aging and climate resilience?
Danielle Arigoni (18:25):
Yeah, I think it almost doesn't matter what
framework you use.
I think and again I'll invokesort of the reflections I have
from being at AARP Somecommunities come to this work
because they're thinking aboutthe needs of people who live in
their community with dementia.
So they'll utilize a dementiaplanning framework to really
think about how do people withdementia thrive in their
(18:45):
community.
So, whether you're coming at itfrom any one of those
frameworks or others, I thinkthe important thing is to sort
of establish a common goal,which is that we value and we
intend to create a place thatworks better for older adults,
and we recognize that in doingso you are helping people with
disabilities, you are helpingpeople of all ages, you are
helping people of differentlanguage abilities and different
(19:07):
internet access.
There's a whole bunch of sortof vectors that flow from that,
that when you center the needsof older adults and the
realities of their experienceagain, you kind of unlock
solutions that benefit othergroups.
So I have a personal affinityfor the AARP Age-Friendly
Framework.
Having worked on it for a while, I don't think that many
communities yet have centeredclimate through that process.
(19:28):
There's a great opportunity todo so, however, and one of the
tools that we were able to putout while I was still.
There was something called theDisaster Resilience Toolkit that
was co-branded by AARP and FEMA, and it serves as kind of a
roadmap for age-friendlycommunities to really think
about how you might betterprepare for disasters.
So I think that's a greatstarting point.
There's a lot more to be done,because the impacts of climate
(19:50):
change are increasingly evidentoutside of disasters as well.
Jennifer Hiatt (19:55):
So I feel like we've already touched on this a
little bit, but there are justso many groups working
tangentially trying to pull allthat together.
I think one of the best thingsthat planners can do is see
dispersed networks and thenbring them into one.
So what would you say issomething that planners could
advocate for to bring togetheror like centralized information
(20:17):
systems and ensure that disastercommunication is clear and
available to everyone in theircommunity.
So I was thinking, like ourtornado alerts or whatever went
off, but like if you're hard ofhearing, how are you supposed to
know that the tornado is coming?
So, how can planners be a toolto bring all of these groups
together and communicateeffectively?
Danielle Arigoni (20:37):
I do think you're right that planners sit
at a really unique intersectionbetween those two kind of silos
that I talked about the sort ofclimate and emergency response
planning and the aging planning.
It requires plannersrecognizing that there's an
aging planning effort underwayand bringing them in.
But I do think that plannerscan play an incredibly valuable
role here.
I'll be honest, the reality isthat there isn't any one group,
(21:01):
I would say, that yet has sortof seized on this intersection
of climate and aging.
I think because it is somulti-sectoral in some ways it
almost kind of falls between thecracks, like no one sees it as
100% in their bailiwick, and sono one has kind of like grabbed
onto it and said we're going tomake sure that everybody knows
about this.
(21:22):
I think, frankly, apa could bethat group right, like they
could be the ones to say, asplanners, we have the commitment
to ensuring that we're bothplanning for our climate future
and that we are doing so witheyes wide open about demographic
change and really driving thismessage in a pretty strong way.
And the other thing is, I wouldsay, is that you know, there's
a real opportunity for climateaffiliated groups and for aging
(21:43):
advocates to sort of championthis issue.
But, yeah, I do think plannerssit at a really valuable
intersection and every planningdocument that someone touches,
whether it's a housing plan or aconsolidated plan,
comprehensive plan,transportation plan,
infrastructure plan, all ofthose, I really believe that
they would be made better byasking and answering the
(22:04):
question how does this reducerisk for older adults in the
face of climate change?
Because I guarantee you thereare opportunities in every
single one of those plans, andmore, to do so, but you're not
going to get that result unlessyou ask that question.
Stephanie Rouse (22:16):
Yeah, with our comprehensive plan for the city
of Lincoln, Lancaster County, weaddress climate change and we
reference our climate actionplan and there's a focus there
and we briefly kind of touch onplanning for older adults in the
current 2050.
Every five years we do anupdate and so there is going to
be a bigger focus on planningfor aging residents in the
(22:37):
community and I think I'll kindof push breaking those silos
down and making it more of ajoint conversation between
climate and planning for olderadults.
Danielle Arigoni (22:46):
Yeah, that's exactly what's needed.
You know, in the book I talkabout the state of New York as
being a real laboratory and casestudy for this work.
You know, state of New York.
I know that Nebraskans probablydon't like to be compared to
New York you know it's notreally.
They're like it's not relevant.
But the point of this isrelevant is that New York, on
(23:08):
the one hand, is a real leaderin climate.
They have very ambitious goalsand a very ambitious climate
action plan at the state level.
They're also a real leader oncommitment to age-friendly
growth and age-friendlydevelopment.
They're the first state to jointhe AARP network.
However, their multi-sector planfor aging and their climate
action plan are wholly divorced.
They are not connected.
I don't think there are evendotted lines that connect them.
Again, it chafes me a littlebit, because I see the
(23:32):
connection points.
For example, a community thatdevelops a climate action plan
that says we're going to investin more renewable energy, we're
going to make sure our housingstock is more climate resilient
and more energy efficient.
That's fantastic.
That's exactly the direction weneed to go.
But those activities and thosetasks and those tactics could be
prioritizing older adults, notjust because they help people
(23:54):
who need the help the most, whohave the most utility cost
burden, who are more at riskbecause of their health to
extreme heat, but in so doing,you'd also be, first of all,
meeting people really where theyhave the needs.
I mean this work of making homesmore energy efficient and
bringing in renewable energy ispretty daunting for anyone.
It's really daunting for olderadults, particularly those who
(24:17):
lack savings.
But when you do that, you'realso starting to convert the
housing stock in ways thatbenefit not just that particular
homeowner but the futureresidents.
So let's center older adults inall of the summer sort of
climate planning that we'rethinking about and at the same
time let's really examine theclimate risks that come from our
aging plan.
Have more mobility in theircommunity, because we know that
(24:41):
they outlive their ability todrive anywhere from seven to 10
years or longer.
Then let's think about climateneutral solutions or climate
beneficial solutions to doingthat Investing in public transit
, investing in walkable andbikeable communities.
You can achieve a lot of sortof dual goals by focusing on
that intersection.
Stephanie Rouse (25:00):
So in the book you identify 25 strategies and
six categories for age-friendlyresilience, covering energy,
housing, mobility, socialinfrastructure, education and
emergency management.
We, like, I'm sure, manycommunities, excel in a few of
these areas, but we leave someothers pretty stagnant or don't
address them.
How can communities better acton each of these areas to ensure
(25:22):
a more holistic approach toage-friendly resilience?
Danielle Arigoni (25:25):
act on each of these areas to ensure a more
holistic approach toage-friendly resilience.
I think it really starts withidentifying who older adults are
and where they live.
When I do talks on the book, Ioften ask audiences how many
people do you think live incongregate facilities?
What percentage of older adultsdo you think live in congregate
facilities?
And many people will say like40%, 20%.
The reality is that 2% of olderadults live in congregate
(25:47):
facilities.
98% of them live in thecommunity and of those, about
30% live alone.
So I think you know, whetherit's housing or transportation
or health or utilities, you haveto really start by grounding
yourself in where older adultslive and what are the challenges
that they confront, whetherit's housing and the cost of
(26:07):
housing, particularly now thathousing is growing more
expensive because utilities andinsurance are rising really
rapidly.
We know that that is leading tomore older adults who are
housing cost burdened than everbefore.
According to the Harvard JointCenter for Housing Studies,
that's 50% of renters olderrenters are housing cost
burdened and a quarter of olderhomeowners.
So this is not just a renter'sproblem and homeowners are fine.
(26:30):
No more people are housing costburdened than ever before among
older adults, and so, whetheryou're thinking about housing or
transportation or any of thoseother sectors.
I think it really starts inlike grounding yourself in the
realities of how older adultsare living today and with the
experiences that they have today, and not assuming that because
we've planned for the nursinghomes and because we've planned
for the assisted livingfacilities, we're good.
(26:51):
That's great, but that reachesa very few of the older adult
population.
Jennifer Hiatt (26:57):
Although you're probably right that Nebraska
does not like to be compared toNew York, you do have multiple
case studies, and case studiesare very helpful showing what
communities are doing right.
So what are one or two of yourfavorite examples for something
that you think is going well inthe climate resilience planning
arena?
Danielle Arigoni (27:15):
The good news is, the more I talk to groups,
the more great examples I hearyou know of innovative work
that's happening at the locallevel.
But from the book, two of myfavorites that I like to lift up
are one City of Portland, whichI know people sometimes roll
their eyes because City ofPortland, you know, and
sustainability always getmentioned.
But City of Portland and thecounty of Multnomah, multnomah
County, in which City ofPortland resides, have really
(27:38):
done some interesting workaround both age-friendly
planning and sort of climateresilience planning.
So in 2021, the PacificNorthwest endured some pretty
dramatic heat waves that led toa thousand people dying and in
Multnomah County the average agewas 67.
So they recognized that thiswas something that was
disproportionately impactingtheir older adults.
They were able to, by virtue ofthe pre-existing partnership
(28:02):
between the city and county andbecause of their prior
commitment to being anage-friendly community, they
were able to sort of leveragecounty and city apparatus, if
you will, to respond to thoseheat waves.
What they did was they kind ofrepurposed a network that had
been established during COVID toreach older adults in their
homes through sort of trustedneighborhood organizations often
(28:24):
that were very sort ofculturally relevant and
culturally trusted, so thatpeople weren't fearful when you
come knocking on the door with agreat idea or something to
offer them.
These were groups that werealready known and trusted and
they paired that with a programto deploy portable air
conditioning units and theyprioritized households that were
lived in or headed by olderadults, that were low income and
(28:46):
that had people withdisabilities in them.
They did that in a way thatkind of overcame all the hurdles
that older adults mightexperience in taking steps to
cool their homes, because manyNorthwest homes are not filled
with air conditioning.
And that program continuestoday.
The air conditioning isinstalled for free, it's done by
people who are trusted andknown and it meets ultra-adult
to where they're at, which is intheir homes.
(29:07):
So I love that example and Ilove that it continues year over
year.
The other one I love talkingabout is an activity that was
born out of New Orleans and it'sled by a group called Together
New Orleans and this kind ofemerged, as New Orleans is just
the front lines and the punchingbag, honestly, in the US for
climate change time and timeagain, and it's been interesting
(29:29):
, I think, as they would say, tosee their own shift in how they
respond.
You know, 20 years ago theresponse was evacuate let's get
people out of harm's way.
We know now that, and theyrecognize that that brings other
risks for older adults whocan't access medical care, for
whom their lives are disruptedin a pretty significant way, and
many other reasons whyevacuation is no longer the
(29:51):
response of choice.
Instead, they help people toshelter in place and in doing
that, they recognize that one ofthe most common side effects or
byproducts of these disastersis what you just described,
jennifer, of these blackouts,right Power outages for days or
weeks.
So they are seeing and in factwe continue to see.
Just recently I read an articleabout Hurricane Beryl and some
(30:12):
of the deaths in Texas thatresulted from the power outages
there, in which predictablythree quarters of the people who
died were older adults.
New Orleans recognized that andsaid we need to figure this out.
And what they did is they cameup with a very sort of
community-driven response, whichis to create something called
community lighthouses throughoutthe city and actually I think
it's extending beyond NewOrleans as well and these
(30:34):
community lighthouses are ofteninstalled in community serving
facilities, whether healthcenters, churches, senior
centers, things like that.
They include solar panelschurches, senior centers, things
like that.
They include solar panels,backup storage, basic
necessities, food, water.
They serve as a gathering pointfor people in times of crisis,
cooling centers when they'reneeded, warming centers when
they're needed.
(30:55):
But the thing that makes themreally special is that they are
meant to serve a very fixed area, and the volunteers associated
with that community lighthousego out and knock on the doors
regularly for all the people inthat service area to make sure
that they're known ahead of timeand to make sure that they
really understand what olderadults' needs are, so that they
don't have to worry about canthey show up at the lighthouse
(31:17):
with a pet, or can they show upand get their oxygen machine
plugged in.
They know that their needs arealready understood and they've
established that relationshipahead of time.
So it's the dual task ofcreating the infrastructure but
pairing that with the sort ofsocial resilience that goes
along with it, and I think indoing that they solve for one of
(31:37):
the challenges that I've heardin other situations around
community resilience hubs, whichis people who build a great
resilience hub.
They have this great coolingcenter, but they haven't asked
the question of how are peoplegoing to get here, and so that
really leaves people who don'tdrive high and dry and unable to
access those services, whereasthe community lighthouses in New
Orleans are all within walkingdistance.
Jennifer Hiatt (31:58):
It's interesting that you mentioned places that
don't generally have airconditioning.
I just spent the weekend inCanada and on my perspective, I
was escaping some hot weather.
In Nebraska we got to 105.
But up there we actuallyreached 90 and had no way to
(32:19):
deal with that.
It was incredibly hot, therewere no air conditioners and
then it rained and it never getsto 90 in August up there and it
never rains in August up there.
In four days experience thatand the area that we were at was
actually somewhat older peopleand they were just like what are
we even going to do?
And just fanning themselves andI was like get air conditioners
(32:41):
, my Atlanta, but it's not thatsimple.
It's not that simple toretrofit a house with air
conditioning or bring inportable air conditioners.
It's very challenging.
Danielle Arigoni (32:52):
Exactly, and I think you know again, there are
any number of barriers forpeople to do that.
First of all, dropping 500bucks, getting to the.
Home Depot, picking it up,installing it.
You know, you think literallyabout older adults, particularly
those who are older.
Older adults have difficultymoving heavy equipment.
I mean this is we can't assumethat any of this stuff is easy.
For many it is, but not for all.
And then the other thing thatis really difficult increasingly
(33:16):
is just utility costs and whatthat's going to mean for
electricity bills.
I read a report recently thatsaid something like 7 million
people older adults, routinelygo without food or medicine or
to pay their utility bills.
So utility costs are already areally, really hard and, I think
, untold part of the economiccrisis.
Utilities are difficult tomanage and I think we often
(33:37):
forget about that.
So even the presumption thatyou can just plug in an air
conditioner and be good to go alot of people might not do that
because they can't afford theincrease in their utility bills
that will follow.
Stephanie Rouse (33:47):
So I really like the community lighthouse
example and it gets to threethemes that I kind of picked up
on in your book, which arecommunication, collaboration and
coordination For communitiesthat haven't started down the
path of climate resilienceplanning or age-friendly
designations.
Who should be the one startingthis conversation and you kind
of touched on this earlier alittle bit but the groups that
are key to starting this workwith focusing on resilience for
(34:11):
an aging nation, I think there'sreally a role for all sectors
here.
Danielle Arigoni (34:16):
I mean, I think the leadership can come
from any one of them.
It could come from theDepartment of Emergency
Management, or from the AreaAgency on Aging, or from the
Senior Center, or from theHealth Department, or from the
Planning Department.
It can really come from any oneof those sectors.
Ideally, it would integratepeople from all of those sectors
and more.
It would include the utilities,who have a lot of capabilities
(34:38):
to lighten the load, if you will, for older adults and encourage
energy efficiency incentivesand payment plans and things
like that.
It would include transportationfolks, who can be more
thoughtful about not justdesigning public transit systems
but ensuring that stops areshaded and have seating, because
, again, on that 105 degree dayor whatever, jennifer, that you
(35:00):
mentioned, in Lincoln, someonewho maybe is a regular bus rider
might not go out and stand inthe sun for 10 minutes waiting
for the bus.
They need shade, they need aplace to sit.
This is again, that's, anexample of one of those sort of
age layering on top of otherrisks that warrants a little bit
more consideration For housingfolks.
If they're coming at this assort of leading the charge, this
(35:23):
is a real opportunity toadvocate for more housing choice
in the community, for theconstruction of smaller, denser,
more tightly connected homesthat reduce energy costs because
they're smaller and maybe havesome shared walls so you're not
paying quite as much for heatingand cooling.
But the other thing aboutdifferent housing modalities
other than single familydetached, is that it fosters
(35:45):
more of a social network thatlets people kind of check on
each other informally and weknow that makes a difference in
saving lives.
We knew that since 1995 whenEric Kleinenberg researched the
Chicago heat wave and he reallypointed a spotlight on the
importance of connectedness andprotecting people.
So I think all of those groupsand more can lead.
I would say I'll go back tothat question of anyone can ask
(36:08):
and answer the question how doesthis activity, this policy,
this program reduce risk forolder adults in the face of
climate change?
And that needs to be just partand parcel of how we all do our
work going forward.
So I would say that's kind of areally clear consideration that
anyone listening can askthemselves and frankly, to bring
up at those meetings withcolleagues when you're making
(36:30):
decisions.
Jennifer Hiatt (36:32):
Understanding that communities aren't really
quite as far along as theyshould be in assisting older
adults, not to put it back tothat personal individual
readiness.
But what is one piece of adviceyou would give someone who is
listening, who is either anolder adult themselves or has an
older adult in their family, tomake sure that they are
preparing for disaster to thebest of their individual
(36:52):
abilities?
Danielle Arigoni (36:54):
Yeah, it's both right.
I don't mean to suggest at allthat individuals have no role we
obviously do.
We all have to play a role herebut that community resilience
kind of web or social networkbehind is so important.
But I think what you can do atan individual level is to see if
there's a special needsregistry in your community.
Oftentimes these exist, butmaybe not well publicized, and
what that means is that you cansort of self-identify to your
(37:17):
emergency management group teamoffice as an older adult, as
someone who needs additionalhelp.
Frankly, I don't think you needto be an older adult to sign up
for these things I'm quite sureyou don't.
But it might be helpful forpeople who don't drive anymore
or who have physical limitationsor who live with dementia to
make themselves known and maketheir unique needs known to
(37:37):
people who they might then turnto for support in times of
disaster.
That helps everyone.
That puts them on the radarscreen.
I don't know the degree towhich this is happening, but I
think lists like that can alsobe really useful for utilities
as they think about where toprioritize power restoration.
If you are someone who liveswith in-home medical equipment
(37:58):
on which you rely, you need tobe on that list for priority
reinstatement of power, andwhether that means reaching out
to the utility directly or goingthrough your emergency
management department, I thinkthose are two things that people
can do proactively.
Stephanie Rouse (38:12):
And as this is booked on planning, in addition
to your book, which we recommendeveryone get a copy of, what
books would you recommend ourreaders check out?
Danielle Arigoni (38:20):
Well, thank you.
Yeah, love for people to readthis.
Two other books I personallylove and think really highly of.
Both of them are out of IslandPress, which is the publishing
house that did this book.
That helped me bring this bookto life.
One is called UnderstandingDisaster Insurance New Tools for
a More Resilient Future byCarolyn Kowski.
It really kind of unpacks theinsurance industry in ways I
(38:41):
think are totally fascinatingand describes just how important
insurance is as a safety netfor people from their financial
standpoint and how inadequate itis.
Frankly, insurance is radicallychanging in many parts of the
country, growing ever moreexpensive, sometimes
disappearing altogether asinsurance agencies leave, and
understanding the market thatkind of drives those decisions I
(39:03):
think is really interesting andwhat it sort of portends for
our future.
The other one that I amenamored of is called when
Driving is Not an Option by AnnaZiverts.
It is honestly supereye-opening in terms of
understanding mobility needs forpeople.
She is a vision impairedactivist in Seattle area, she's
(39:23):
a transportation advocate, she'sa total powerhouse and she
really thoughtfully gathersinformation from both the
Seattle area and from across thecountry to sort of channel the
experience of non-drivers.
And this can be for any numberof reasons for economic reasons,
for reasons of disability, forreasons of choice.
She estimates that as much as30% of any community is a
(39:44):
non-driver.
But we don't plan for them verywell, we really don't.
I always chuckle when she'llpost on social media you know,
job announcements by theDepartment of Transportation in
that area that serve publictransit that say driver's
license is required.
She's like this is ironic, likewhat's going on.
So, anyway, I highly recommendthat book and following Anna
Zeeberts and Carolyn Kowski.
Stephanie Rouse (40:05):
Yeah, we have Anna's book on our schedule to
do early next year, because Ilistened to a webinar where she
was part of a panel and she'sjust has such good insight and I
think it really opens your eyeto a new perspective, totally.
Danielle Arigoni (40:18):
And super accessible to like.
It's really easy to understand,not overly technical.
Stephanie Rouse (40:22):
Well, danielle, thank you again for joining us
on Book John Planning to talkabout your book Climate
Resilience for an Aging Nation.
Danielle Arigoni (40:29):
Thank you so much.
It's been a real pleasure totalk with you both.
Jennifer Hiatt (40:33):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation with
author Danielle Aragoni on herbook Climate Resilience for an
Aging Nation.
You can get your own copythrough the publisher at Island
Press, or click the link in theshow notes to take you directly
to our affiliate page.
Remember to subscribe to theshow wherever you listen to
podcasts and please rate, reviewand share the show.
Thank you.
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