Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Rouse (00:00):
This episode is
brought to you by Marvin
Planning Consultants.
Marvin Planning Consultants,established in 2009, is
committed to their clients andprofessional organizations.
Their team of planners hasserved on chapter division and
national committees, includingas the Nebraska Chapter
President.
In addition, they are committedto supporting their chapter in
various APA divisions.
You're listening to the BookedOn Planning podcast, a project
(00:34):
of the Nebraska chapter of theAmerican Planning Association.
In each episode we dive intohow cities function by talking
with authors on housing,transportation and everything in
between.
Join us as we get Booked onPlanning.
(00:57):
Welcome back, bookworms, toanother episode of Booked on
Planning.
This month's article episodecontinues our conversation on
gentrification, following ourtalk with Dennis Gale on the
misunderstood history ofgentrification, released two
weeks ago.
If you haven't listened to thatepisode, make sure to add that
to your podcast queue to listento next.
For today's episode, jenniferand I read three articles from
(01:17):
the past few years that get intothe more recent trends on
gentrification.
The first article what isgentrification from plan Edison,
attempts to define thecomplicated term itself.
The first article what isGentrification from Plan Edison
attempts to define thecomplicated term itself.
The article starts by statingthe meaning of the term can vary
greatly depending on context,like in the most commonly
discussed US example, whenrelatively wealthy white
residents move intoneighborhoods previously
(01:39):
populated by lower-incomeindividuals and communities of
color.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:42):
As we discussed
with Dennis, this is what we
struggle with the most.
When we're talking aboutgentrification.
It often gets thrown atredevelopment projects, in my
experience, without any genuinethought given to the individual
project.
I was not entirely sure how aredevelopment project that
revitalized an area that wasonce a palmed out industrial
brownfield and is now a vibrantmixed use area with an
(02:03):
affordable housing requirementbuilt into it was gentrification
.
But we've certainly had thatterm thrown at us before.
But after reading this articleI can understand the origins of
the term and can understandagain what people are meaning.
But I always felt like thereneeded to be an actual
displacement for truegentrification to occur.
Stephanie Rouse (02:21):
And I never
really sat down and thought
about where the term came fromor what it truly meant beyond
the basic results of it, butcame to understand after reading
the Misunderstood History ofGentrification that it first
appeared in 1964 in a collectionof essays by Ruth Glass
discussing change in London.
In Gale's book he points outthe term is connected to the
label of wealthy upper-classEnglish, the gentry, hence
(02:44):
gentrification.
When they started taking overmodest neighborhoods and
upgrading them to fit theirstatus, they were then
gentrifying the area.
Jennifer Hiatt (02:52):
I appreciated
the art, the cover art that this
article uses.
It's a photo of a sign thatsays gentrification in progress.
There will be cupcakes, and Ifeel like this is very
appropriate for the context thatit is portraying, ie the social
, cultural and economic changesthat occur when a large number
of relatively wealthy residentsmove into the neighborhood.
The threat of a cupcake shopcoming into a neighborhood is
(03:15):
sort of the let them eat cake ofour modern day.
I do appreciate that thisarticle points out that it is
important to distinguish thegeneral discussion around
gentrification that occurs ineveryday conversation and
typically has a political tiltto it versus the academic
conversations, Although thearticle also points out how
difficult it can be to try touse data and metrics to quantify
(03:38):
the impacts of gentrification.
So it's really a nebulous topicthat doesn't really lend itself
to quantification very well.
Stephanie Rouse (03:46):
Yeah, it's not
only hard to track why people
move from a neighborhood,whether it's by choice or by
need.
The way you measure it can alsomake it seem like no issue is
present.
Or a major issue is present ismore likely in neighborhoods
with a significant population ofwhite residents, as a study for
the city of Chicago revealed,or whether it's higher in
(04:08):
neighborhoods with a higherpercentage of minority residents
.
Jennifer Hiatt (04:11):
Exactly, People
move for all kinds of reasons,
and the way people answer thequestion to like why did you
move, can change over time asyou settle into a new
neighborhood or whatever, andthere often isn't just one
defining reason why people move.
So identifying the root causeof gentrification- can be tricky
.
Stephanie Rouse (04:31):
Someone in our
office, kurt, has played around
with this idea and trying to getaddresses and phone numbers
based on, I think, votinginformation, and to call those
people up and ask why they movedwould just be a huge
undertaking to be able to trackany of this.
Jennifer Hiatt (04:45):
That's very fair
if they even answer the phone.
Stephanie Rouse (04:47):
Yes, so the
confusion with the term is
rooted in the fact that no oneagrees on what exactly causes it
.
Gentrification at its basiclevel is a lack of affordable
housing resulting indisplacement of individuals and
culture that previously residedin the neighborhood.
Whether that's caused by newhousing investment or lack of
new development is less defined.
Most tend to think it's becauseof too much high-end
(05:09):
development, but our secondarticle shows evidence from the
pandemic that may undermine thattheory.
I also watched this PlanetMoney Reel on Instagram last
month.
That goes into all the quotecauses of gentrification that
get thrown around like the fancycoffee shops.
Or is it the bike lanes or therenovated brownstones?
Or is it that brand newskyscraper development that
causes gentrification?
Jennifer Hiatt (05:30):
I really
appreciate what our for you
pages on Instagram must looklike.
Stephanie Rouse (05:33):
Probably not a
lot like other people's.
Jennifer Hiatt (05:35):
Nope, it does
seem like any kind of
development gets labeled asgentrification these days, and
that's not necessarily a badthing, but again, it creates an
interesting conversation topic.
As Dennis pointed out in ourlast episode, planners and
policymakers really need tocreate some kind of firm
definition of whatgentrification is before we will
be able to move forward withgood policies and procedures to
(05:56):
combat its effects.
Stephanie Rouse (05:58):
The second
article we read was published in
the Atlantic in 2021 by Jacoand Binder, on how the pandemic
disproved the common theoriesaround gentrification, which
placed the blame on luxury condodevelopment.
The article discusses heavilyliberal mayoral races that were
taking place in 2021 in citieslike New York and Boston, with
nearly all candidates focusingon the topic of gentrification
(06:20):
and their plan to attack ithead-on by halting zoning,
exceptions for developers andunrestrained growth.
The two quoted candidates fromthe article are now holding
those offices which may speak tothe importance of action on the
topic to the voting public.
Jennifer Hiatt (06:33):
The campaign
that I thought was most
interesting was Scott Stringer'sas he campaigned to be mayor
for New York City.
It was interesting to see acareer politician campaign on
being like a revolutionaryplatform and even more
interesting to me Stringer wasthe New York City's comptroller,
so he was very aware of thecity's financial status and
should have known.
What was happening in the citywas multifaceted, not just an
(06:55):
issue of developer incentivesand the quote unquote his words
gentrification, industrialcomplex.
But even more interesting Ithink in general, though I
thought Scott's was most wasMichelle Woos, who is Boston's
current mayor.
She called to eliminateBoston's planning and
development agency.
As of this recording she hasnot acted on the total
(07:16):
elimination of Boston's planningdepartment, but she is
responsible for Boston's citycouncil asking for two new home
rule petitions from theMassachusetts State Assembly,
and one of those wouldsignificantly restructure the
planning department and limitsome of their authority.
Stephanie Rouse (07:30):
The article
goes into the history of the
earlier growth revolt movementof the 70s, when most people
think of the first instance ofgentrification surfaced.
If you listen to our lastepisode, though, you'll learn
that gentrification was actuallyunderway in several major
cities 50 years earlier.
The discussion is around therange of political backgrounds
that all came out againstunrestrained growth in their
communities, from historicpreservationists and
(07:52):
conservationists to tenants.
My favorite quote was from a1973 planning journal article
that said At a local zoninghearing you might find on one
side an elderly dowager who'svoted straight Republican since
McKinley and her granddaughterfrom a commune where they live
on nuts and berries.
Both are seeking to stop newdevelopment.
Jennifer Hiatt (08:13):
The author
linked the relatively harmonious
activism of this time to theeconomic stability that was
occurring.
As long as it was relativelyinexpensive to rent in a city
and homeownership wasn't reallypredicated on profitability like
it is these days, thesedifferent groups of people were
able to advocate for slow growthwithout any real conflict.
Stephanie Rouse (08:30):
The article
describes the same trend that
took place in embryonicgentrification of the early 20th
century as occurring in the1980s and 1990s, as downtowns
became popular again.
It wasn't massive new condoconstruction that displaced
residents, but instead employeesof the firms moving back
downtown that were buying oldhomes in marginalized areas and
upgrading them to suit theirneeds.
(08:51):
This pushed out lower incomehouseholds into the suburbs,
creating the very well-knowndrive-until-you-qualify
situation in major metro areas.
Jennifer Hiatt (08:59):
This article
actually takes a stab at
defining gentrification, statingbut if gentrification is
defined as demographictransition toward wealthier,
wider residents, this approachmeaning limiting new growth
makes for a poor policy approach.
As Stephanie was saying, itwasn't the massive high-rise
apartments or complexes thatwere pushing people out of their
(09:20):
neighborhoods.
It was actually the influx ofnew middle-class flipping
already existing housing units.
So my favorite quote from thisarticle was the telltale sign of
a neighborhood in transitionisn't actually a yoga studio or
a high-rise apartment building.
It's an old row house that ismeticulously renovated, painted
the avant-garde yet inoffensiveshade that Amanda Colson Hurley
(09:40):
memorably called flip house graywhich you find all over HGTV.
Stephanie Rouse (09:45):
Yes, you do.
It's such an ugly color.
Our last article was aninterview with author Leslie
Kern on her book Gentrificationis Inevitable and Other Lies.
The interview begins byaddressing the wave of remote
work and its impact ongentrification.
Kern mentioned this is bringingthe issue to smaller cities
that weren't seeing high ratesbefore, but with the ability to
live anywhere, people are movingto smaller, more affordable
(10:08):
cities.
Investors are now buying upbuildings and renovating them
for higher rents.
Jennifer Hiatt (10:13):
Kern also notes
that different cities have
different pressures that areleading to gentrification, and I
sometimes think that we missthat in our conversation.
She talks about how touristgentrification and issues around
short-term rentals are creatingproblems in cities like
Barcelona, but equally howdisaster-related gentrification,
like in New Orleans, isstarting to have an impact on
certain cities.
This makes sense, as we areseeing more and worse disaster
(10:36):
strike and new development comesin to replace what was lost,
but there's little or no effortimpact on certain cities.
This makes sense, as we areseeing more and worse disaster
strike and new development comesin to replace what was lost,
but there's little or no effortto protect the former residents
or ensure affordability of anewly developed area or
oftentimes even ensure that thatnew development respects and
pays homage to the area that wasonce destroyed.
Stephanie Rouse (10:53):
One point
Kearns makes that I think is so
important for anyone working incommunities is that we should be
adding amenities toneighborhoods to make them
better.
But the difference betweengentrifying amenities and those
that actually help localresidents is whether they were
part of the process to add theamenities in the first place.
If we had to park to aneighborhood without asking,
we're in essence doing it toattract others to the area, to
(11:15):
show how nice it is.
But if we ask the neighborhoodwhat they need, it gives them a
sense of ownership over it.
Jennifer Hiatt (11:21):
The article also
touches on the argument that
one of the ways to reducehousing costs is to just build
more housing, more market ratehousing.
We hear this all the time, andwhile it does generally make
sense that more housing shouldlower the demand, there is no
economic incentive for adeveloper to do this.
So leaving this solution toprivate development is not
(11:41):
likely to occur.
And Kearns points out that inToronto, developers actually
have been putting in 1000s and1000s of new condominiums over
the last 20 to 25 years, butthose prices haven't actually
gone down.
Of course, she doesn't mentionwhat the population increase has
been over that same timeframeand if these thousands and
thousands of condos have met thehousing demand.
Stephanie Rouse (12:02):
But assuming
that it is meeting housing
demand, this seems to indicatethat just building market rate
without any kind of anaffordability subsidy isn't
going to help the housing crisis, or gentrification, and she
also mentions that our communitydevelopment process is flawed,
that we rely on whomever canattend the public hearings to
make decisions about newdevelopments, and we should be
(12:23):
thinking of other processes forensuring we don't just hear from
residents that have the time,the energy and the social
networks and those that will beimpacted the most in making our
meetings more accessible and ourpublic engagement processes,
which, in long-range planning,we do a really good job of going
out and asking the public andinvolving them in our long range
visions.
But it's just so hard withdevelopment projects and the
(12:44):
high turnover of gettingprojects through and meeting
your legal time limits on thingsthat it's hard to get the
community engaged on theseindividual developer led
projects.
Jennifer Hiatt (12:54):
Yeah, and since
we have that short time turnover
, it's often so much extra work.
It's worth it.
We understand, but Stephanieand I are working on a housing
project here in the city ofLincoln and trying to put good,
conscious effort into who's inthe neighborhood.
What times could we meet withthem?
What would that look like?
How can we meet them on theirlevel instead of asking them to
(13:14):
come to city?
Council has been rewarding, buta lot of effort and energy.
Yeah, we hope you enjoyed thisconversation on the topic of
gentrification, as discussed inthree recent articles.
You can find links to thosearticles in the show notes below
.
Remember to subscribe to theshow wherever you listen to
podcasts and please rate, reviewand share the show.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll talk to you next time
(13:36):
on Booked on Planning.
Thank you.