June 24, 2025 • 33 mins
Resilience is much more than just bouncing back after a disaster. Over the past decade, as climate impacts have intensified, our understanding of what makes communities truly resilient has evolved dramatically. In this conversation with Laurie Mazur, editor of Island Press's "Resilience Matters: 10 Years of Transformative Thinking," we explore how climate resilience has transformed from buzzword to essential framework.
Show Notes:
- Author Recommended Reading:
- Climate Action for Busy People by Cate Mingoya-LaFortune
- Climate Resilience for an Aging Nation by Danielle Arigoni
- Resilient Cities: Responding to Peak Oil and Climate Change by Peter Newman and Timothy Beatley
- Resilience Thinking: Sustaining Ecosystems and People in a Changing World by Brian Walker
- Heat Wave: A social Autopsy of Disaster in Chicago by Eric Klinenberg
- The Urban Ocean Lab run by Ayana Elizabeth https://www.ayanaelizabeth.com/
- Download your own copy of Resilience Matters from Island Press at https://islandpress.org/ten-years-transformative-thinking
- To view the show transcripts, click on the episode at https://bookedonplanning.buzzsprout.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Rouse (00:00):
This episode is brought to you by Marvin
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You're listening to the BookedOn Planning Podcast, a project
(00:33):
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with authors on housing,transportation and everything in
between.
Join us as we get Booked onPlanning.
Welcome back, bookworms, toanother episode of Booked on
(00:59):
Planning.
In this episode, we talk witheditor Laurie Mazur about Island
Press's Resilience Matters2025,.
In this episode, we talk withLaurie Mazur about Island
Press's Resilience Matters 2025,10 Years of Transformative
Thinking.
This year's edition spans adecade of articles on resilience
, highlighting key areas in thefield as it's evolved since
Island Press started thisproject.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:16):
It was so special to be able to talk with
Laurie about this accomplishmentinstead of just discussing it
between ourselves.
Lori also provides insight intothe editing process and how her
team goes about selecting thearticles that they include every
year.
Stephanie Rouse (01:32):
Yeah, we've been covering this publication
for the past few years as aconversation between us on the
articles and you're right, it'sreally great to actually talk
with the editor and get somedetails behind the work and
learn more about their process.
I was shocked to find that it'sa team of two that creates this
lengthy compilation of articlesevery year.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:44):
I was shocked to find that it's a team of two
that creates this lengthycompilation of articles every
year.
Yes, I really felt like we wereable to bond over a team of two
splitting a bunch of heavy work.
In this time of increasingclimate disasters, it is
important to remain positive,that we can be the change and
bring resilience to ourcommunities.
Resilience Matters shows us thesteps for doing that.
So let's get into ourconversation with author Lori
Mazur about Island Press'sResilience Matters 2025.
Stephanie Rouse (02:08):
Well, lori, thank you for joining us on
Booked on Planning to talk aboutResilience Matters 10 Years of
Transformative Thinking.
Resilience Matters is acollection of articles and
op-eds published onresiliency-related topics each
year, this one focusing onarticles from the last decade.
As editor of this publication,how did this get started and
what are the goals of thispublication?
Laurie Mazur (02:30):
Yeah, well, first, thank you so much for having me
.
So Resilience Matters ispublished by Island Press, which
is, as you know, a longtimenonprofit environmental book
publisher, and about 10 yearsago Island Press launched
something called the UrbanResilience Project for a couple
of reasons.
First, we saw that there was agreat opportunity to help define
(02:53):
the emerging field of climateresilience.
You know, when we got started,there were more and more climate
disasters and the termresilience was being thrown
around a lot and becomingsomething of a buzzword, but it
was often just simply defined asbouncing back after a disaster.
And, of course, bouncing backto the unsustainable, unjust
(03:16):
status quo pretty muchguarantees that we get more
disasters.
So we wanted to explore youknow what it would mean to make
our communities truly resilient.
You know to think about how wecould actually bounce forward,
you know, to survive and thrivein the era of climate change.
And secondly, we saw a lot ofnew opportunities in the media
(03:39):
landscape, because the fact is,people are getting more and more
of their news and informationonline.
Books, we believe, are still thegold standard, but people are
reading more short-form contentonline and we felt a need to
reach them there.
So the Urban Resilience Projecthas tried to both explore and
(04:01):
shape thinking on climateresilience, while also finding
new ways to reach people in thisnew, shifting media landscape.
So we collaborate with lots ofdifferent kinds of folks
activists, planners, islandPress, book authors and others
and we help them producearticles and op-eds and then we
(04:22):
place that content in variousmedia mostly online, but also
sometimes in print andResilience Matters is our annual
compilation of articles andop-eds that we've helped people
publish, and we do this becauseshort form pieces have a very
short half-life they flit acrossthe screen and they're gone,
(04:42):
and there are just a lot ofgreat ideas in these pieces.
So we thought that thecompilation was a good way to
give them a little morelongevity, and then, after 10
years of doing this work, we hada collection of more than 700
articles and op-eds, so wedecided to collect some of our
favorite pieces into one volume.
Jennifer Hiatt (05:02):
Well, we love any opportunity to mention
Island Press on this podcast,and this is actually our third
year of featuring ResilienceMatters, but the first time that
we've gotten to speak with you.
So you're the editor for IslandPress's Urban Resilience
Project.
How did you connect with IslandPress and what is the Urban
Resilience Project?
Laurie Mazur (05:21):
Well, I actually go way back with Island Press.
I published two books with them, one in 1994 and one in 2011.
And I've just done a lot ofwork with them over the years
and you know Island Press isreally it's just kind of a
treasure in this field.
You know, as a nonprofit,island Press publishes a lot of
(05:43):
important books that would neversee the light of day at a
commercial publisher.
Stephanie Rouse (05:48):
In your introduction you mentioned that
over the course of 10 yearsyou've covered over 700 articles
.
This edition only contains 61,if I counted correctly, in four
different topic areas.
How did you go about curatingwhich of the articles would make
it and then narrowing it downto what just ends up in this
document?
Laurie Mazur (06:06):
It was so hard.
There was a lot of great stuffthat was left on the cutting
room floor, but we tried to comeup with a representative
sampling of the many issues thatcontribute to resilience and
there are many and of the youknow, diverse perspectives of
the authors we work with.
There's lots more where thatcame from.
Stephanie Rouse (06:28):
And I'm curious who all is part of the team
that reviews and narrows downthe articles that end up in the
Resilience Matters publications.
The team is quite small.
Laurie Mazur (06:39):
It is comprised of myself and Kyler Joffroy, who's
our online marketing manager,and the two of us are the Urban
Resilience Project.
I'm the editorial half of theproject and I help folks with
writing and editing of theirarticles and op-eds, and then
Kyler is the media whisperer whoplaces them in appropriate
(07:00):
outlets.
That's the whole team.
Jennifer Hiatt (07:02):
You guys do a lot of work for a team of two.
It's really awesome.
We understand that too A lot ofwork for a team of two.
Laurie Mazur (07:09):
I guess you do.
Jennifer Hiatt (07:10):
Your first article in this year's
Resilience Matters is about notbeing able to have resilience
without having justice and trust.
Why did you feel it wasimportant to lead off with this
article?
Laurie Mazur (07:23):
Yeah, this article by Denise Fairchild highlights
something that is justabsolutely fundamental about
resilience.
This is not just atechnological issue, it's a
people issue.
I mean sure in this togetherthat we're connected to our
neighbors, that we help eachother in hard times.
High-profile killings talkedabout how unjust police killings
(07:46):
of Black people was erodingtrust, and trust is a bedrock of
(08:14):
social cohesion.
You know, if you can't trustthe authorities, will you
evacuate when they tell you to?
Will you stay home inquarantine during a pandemic?
So you know, a lack of trust isjust extremely corrosive to
social cohesion and resiliencebecause it can also interfere
with disaster response, and wesaw that last year in North
(08:37):
Carolina after Hurricane Helenewhen FEMA had to stop work in
some places because there werecredible threats of violence
which had been stoked byright-wing media.
But at the same time, thatparticular disaster, I think,
also provided a lot of greatexamples of social cohesion.
There was an incredible comingtogether of people from all
(08:59):
walks of life to clear debrisand supply drinking water after
the city's water system wasdestroyed.
So there are a lot of examplesof that too.
Stephanie Rouse (09:10):
Yeah, it reminds me one of your authors,
daniela Aragoni's book, whereshe was talking about how
community is so important withclimate adaptation and climate
change, and especially for olderadults that need that social
network to help them in times ofstress and change.
Laurie Mazur (09:25):
Yeah, that is so true.
And in fact, one of the bestexamples of this Eric
Kleinenberg the sociologist dida book years ago.
I think it was called Heat Waveand it was about a heat wave in
Chicago in 1998, probablygetting stuff wrong here, but he
compared these twoneighborhoods and they were both
low-income, predominantly Blackneighborhoods and in that heat
(09:49):
wave one had incredibly highmortality rates and the other
had very low mortality rates andhe showed that the difference
between these two communitiesand you reminded me of this by
mentioning Daniel Arrigoni,because most of the fatalities
in heat waves and otherdisasters are among the elderly
(10:10):
so he showed that it wascommunity cohesion that
literally kept people alive.
You know people who were askingabout their elderly neighbors
and checking on them.
So yeah, it's huge.
Stephanie Rouse (10:23):
So over 10 years, I'm sure you've seen some
changing trends, types ofarticles that are getting
written.
So what are some of those bigchanges that you've seen over
the years doing this type ofwork?
Laurie Mazur (10:33):
Yeah, it's been a busy 10 years.
There's a lot more coverage ofthese issues, in part because
there are a lot more climatedisasters.
You know, last year we had 27major weather disasters in the
United States which killed 568people and cost about $180
(10:54):
billion, and that was the secondhighest number of
billion-dollar weather disastersin our history, just behind
2023.
So naturally there's moreinterest in how we can be more
resilient in the face of climatechange.
I think there's also moreunderstanding of the complexity
(11:14):
of resilience.
You know those people inAsheville who didn't have
potable water for four monthsare thinking about their water
system.
You know people who haveexperienced long-term power
(11:38):
outages are rethinking.
You know whether a massive,interconnected and vulnerable
grid is the best way to keep thelights on.
I think there's a lot morecoverage over the last decade of
just the basic unfairness ofclimate impacts, of how they
reflect existing inequities andalso make them worse.
(12:00):
You know, for example, we knowthat the racist, redlining
policies of the 20th century ledto underinvestment in black and
brown neighborhoods, and we'velearned that the lingering
effects of those policies nowmake those neighborhoods more
vulnerable to climate impactsbecause they have more concrete
(12:20):
and less green space.
These neighborhoods are a lothotter like 15 degrees hotter
than wealthier and greenerneighborhoods, and because
they're often in low-lying areaswith poor infrastructure.
These neighborhoods are alsomore vulnerable to flooding.
So, I do think that thatevolving understanding of
(12:42):
resilience is reflected inarticles and op-eds on this
topic, certainly the ones thatwe publish.
Jennifer Hiatt (12:51):
And speaking of the articles that you have
published, you made an almostprophetic statement in 2019 in
one of the articles that youwrote, stating the dangers of
interdependent societies do notwarrant a wholesale retreat from
interdependence.
That path could leave usisolated and friendless in a
dangerous world, and it woulddampen the dynism that comes
(13:11):
from global trade and goods andideas.
So now, almost six years later,we are in fact headed straight
down that path.
So how can we find a sweet spotbetween the interconnectedness
that is somewhat harmful and thehyper self-sufficiency that is
certainly unharmful in such anunbalanced time, or
self-sufficiency that iscertainly unharmful in such an
unbalanced time.
Laurie Mazur (13:35):
Yeah, unbalanced, you got that right.
Yeah, it's such a good question.
And I think one insight fromresilience thinking is that
resilience systems tend to bemodular.
They can connect to largernetworks on a good day, but they
can also disconnect and besomewhat self-sufficient on a
bad day.
You know when the grid goesdown or there's a global
pandemic.
So, for example, if yourbuilding has solar panels on the
(13:57):
roof that are tied to the grid,you benefit from that
connection because you can sellyour excess power when the sun
is shining and you can draw fromthe grid at night when it's not
.
And if you also have backupbattery storage, you can keep
the lights on when the sun isshining and you can draw from
the grid at night when it's not.
And if you also have backupbattery storage, you can keep
the lights on when the grid goesdown.
So you know, I think bothconnectedness and
self-sufficiency have value, andthe trick, as you said, is in
(14:21):
finding the sweet spot betweenthe two, and that spot will be
different in differentsituations, but I think a
general rule would be to avoidabsolutism on either side, to
recognize the value of both.
You know, absolutism is say,deciding that trade is harmful
(14:42):
to your economy and slappinghumongous tariffs on everything.
But I think it's important tothink about what critical goods
or functions would be mostvulnerable in a crisis and
really work to build in someself-sufficiency in those areas.
I mean, of course, this is nothow businesses think in this
(15:02):
economy, but I think that ischanging.
I think the days ofjust-in-time supply chains may
be over, because I think peoplereally saw the costs of that
approach during the pandemic.
Stephanie Rouse (15:17):
And you also touched on a little bit how,
when you started ResilienceMatters 10 years ago, it was
because you know this termresilience was getting thrown
around and it was becoming alittle more common and trying to
help define that.
And then, in 2016, you wrote anarticle that defined resilience
as the capacity of a communityto anticipate, plan for and
mitigate the risks and seize theopportunities associated with
(15:39):
environmental and social change.
In the last nine years, hasthis definition changed or has
anything in the field changed.
Laurie Mazur (15:48):
That you've noticed.
I still think that's a prettygood definition of resilience.
You'll note that it's not justabout climate, but environmental
and social change moregenerally, and that's because we
are just living in this era ofunprecedented change.
on so many fronts, We'vedestabilized the climate and
natural systems that we dependon.
(16:09):
So that is like a grandexperiment we are conducting,
the results of which will beunpredictable and often
devastating.
And at the same time, we havethese huge, sprawling global
networks of commerce andinformation that just
metastasize disruptions globally, whether they are financial
(16:32):
crises or pandemics.
And then, at the same time, wehave these new technologies like
artificial intelligence thatpromise to reshape our world in
ways that we can barely imagine.
So yeah, resilience is all aboutcoping with change good and bad
and making sure that the risksand the benefits of those
(16:53):
changes are fairly shared sothat everybody has a chance to
live a good life.
I will say that that remains anaspirational goal.
We're pretty far from achievingit, but I think it's still the
right goal.
Jennifer Hiatt (17:07):
Have to keep your aspirations and make sure
they're high.
So I'm a policy wonk, so Ireally love that you have a
whole section about policy inResilience Matters, and the
former presidentialadministration was considered
one of the greenest in history.
But our current administrationhas decided to take action,
reversing most of those greenpolicies.
(17:28):
I know there's never one singlelike silver bullet solution,
but what are one or two policiesyou'd urge leaders at any
governmental level to startimplementing immediately?
That would have the biggestchange.
Laurie Mazur (17:41):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right.
The Biden administration'sInflation Reduction Act was the
nation's biggest ever investmentin climate.
It was like nearly $400 billion, I think, for clean energy and
climate justice and lots of goodstuff.
There was also funding fordisaster mitigation in various
(18:02):
spending bills.
Another important thing theydid was to require that public
infrastructure that was damagedin climate impacts be rebuilt in
a way that prevents futuredamage, which makes so much
sense, so that taxpayers don'thave to keep paying to rebuild
the same bridge over and overagain.
But now, as you said, thecurrent administration is
(18:24):
reversing course, to put itmildly.
They're trying to claw back thefunds and cancel any programs
related to climate or cleanenergy, and also rolling back
the regulations that the Bidenadministration implemented on
you know, sort of buildingresilience into public
infrastructure.
They've launched a full-scaleassault on climate science and
(18:48):
information, cutting funds forNOAA so that we can't track
greenhouse gases or even theweather and, of course,
canceling the National ClimateAssessment that communities and
businesses rely on to plan theirfutures.
So I think the theory seems tobe that what we don't know about
climate change won't hurt us,but I would say that's pretty
(19:09):
much the opposite of the truth.
So what to do Vote, of course.
I think a lot of Americans careabout climate resilience, but
don't carry that concern intothe voting booth.
So if we want policies thatreflect our concern about
climate resilience, it's time tomake this voting issue.
(19:29):
I think there's also just atremendous amount that we can do
at the local and state andregional levels, and I will say
that local, community-basedgroups have really shown
themselves to be the MVPs ofresilience.
These are groups that buildtrust and social cohesion by
responding to people's immediateconcerns.
(19:51):
So I think they are kind ofuniquely situated to identify
and solve community problems,community problems, and a lot of
these groups have come up withpolicy solutions that have since
been adopted at higher levelsor in other cities and
localities, and they're also thefirst line of defense in any
disruption like a hurricane or apandemic, before the official
(20:14):
help arrives.
I know it's not a policy, but Iwould recommend finding a group
like that in your community orstarting one to figure out what
the policies are that are neededwhere you live.
And thinking about policies, Imean there's so much to do, but
since it's almost summer, maybeI could focus on some policies
(20:34):
for dealing with extreme heat,which, as we said, is by far the
deadliest climate impact,especially for older people.
So I think in your communityyou can advocate for cooling
centers or bus shelters thatprotect people from the sun.
I mean, these are small changesthat really make a huge
difference.
Some communities haveinstituted programs to provide
(20:58):
air conditioners for people whocan't afford them, and again,
these are often elderly peopleliving on fixed incomes who are
absolutely the most at risk fromextreme heat.
A few states have passedlegislation that prevents
utilities from shutting offpeople's electricity during a
heat wave, which again saveslives.
Protections for outdoor workersare really important, like
(21:23):
mandating water and shade breaks.
We've seen some states tryingto well, succeeding actually in
rolling back such protections.
I know Texas and Florida cometo mind.
Protections were instituted bylocalities and then they were
rolled back by the statelegislature.
But again, these are policiesthat save lives and we should
(21:45):
all be working to promote.
Stephanie Rouse (21:48):
You know, I think your point about
localities being more importantin the next four years for
moving this forward is a goodone, and right during the
transition in January, I thinkthe message came down from our
mayor that the Conference ofMayors was like we've been here
before, we had to pick up themantle.
It wasn't the federalgovernment.
So cities and communities arereally having to step up and we
(22:08):
can do this again.
It's just going to take somemore intentionality, more
connections and working togetherat the local level.
Laurie Mazur (22:14):
Yeah, absolutely I agree, and you know, cities
have been just great innovatorson policy in this area, so it's
a natural role for them.
Stephanie Rouse (22:25):
So there was a quote from an article you wrote
about the first UnitarianUniversalist church in Orange,
new Jersey.
That I think sums up a lot ofthe articles and it said it's a
way of getting to know ourneighbors, not coming in with
answers from the outside.
What do you think were some ofthe more impactful stories of
neighborhoods and communitiesleading action versus outsiders
coming in with solutions?
Laurie Mazur (22:47):
There's so many.
One of my favorites is about agroup called Catalyst Miami in
Miami Florida, and this is acommunity group that kept
hearing from their folks thatthey were really struggling with
the hotter summers and thecounty had a climate policy, but
it was mostly focused at thatpoint this was about 10 years
ago, I guess it was mostlyfocused on sea level rise, which
(23:10):
is admittedly an existentialthreat in South Florida, but the
county officials said that theycouldn't act on heat because
they didn't really have dataaside from what they got on the
weather report.
The weather report came frommeasurements that were taken at
the airport and not in placeswhere people live or walk to
school or wait for a bus.
(23:30):
So Catalyst Miami teamed upwith a local university to do
citizen science, where theyplaced heat sensors in places
where people were actuallyexperiencing the heat in their
apartments, the bus stops andyou know.
They found that it was a lothotter in a lot of those places
(23:51):
than it was at the airport.
So they shared that data withthe county and the county then
went ahead and appointed thenation's first chief heat
officer who has gone on todevelop a comprehensive plan for
dealing with extreme heat.
Also, there have been, I think,seven cities that have since
adopted chief heat officers,including, if I'm not mistaken,
(24:14):
phoenix.
So I mean this was a totalbottom-up solution of people
figuring out what was the mostimportant issue in their
community.
You know, taking charge of theresearch, going to government,
but in all cases partnering withscientists, partnering with
local government to come up withsolutions, and they have come
up with some really innovativepolicies in that area.
(24:36):
Another group of stories thereare some stories in the book
about communities that wereaffected by repeated floods, who
got together to fight forchange, like the folks in DeSoto
, missouri, whose communityflooded four times in three
years, and they started aFacebook group and started
asking questions and complainingand they caught the attention
(25:00):
of a national network of floodsurvivor groups called Higher
Ground, and this network haspartnered with scientists from
something called the ThrivingEarth Exchange, a program of the
American Geophysical Union, andthey work together to sort of
study the problem in theselocations and then raise money
(25:21):
from the federal government toimplement local solutions.
And they've done a lot of reallyinnovative green infrastructure
projects in their communitiesto absorb the floodwaters, so
yeah, they have a lot of amazingstories of work they've done
and again, it came from thebottom up and was enhanced by
building a network andconnecting across all of these
(25:44):
localities.
So great stuff.
Jennifer Hiatt (25:47):
What direction do you see resilience moving
toward in the next 10 years?
So when we meet again and wediscuss the 20 year edition of
Resilience Matters, I thinkthose articles are going to
cover.
Laurie Mazur (25:59):
Oh, I don't know, somebody else may be in charge
by then, but yeah, good question.
I think that there will be morepragmatic success stories from
the local level, because peoplejust have no other choice but to
adapt, and that is and will be,I think, in red states as well
(26:19):
as blue states.
You know, I think one of thestories in Resilience Matters
that I thought was reallyinteresting is about how the
state of Alabama has implementedsome of the best building codes
in the country to protect homesfrom extreme weather.
You know, this is a state thatdoes not officially recognize
climate change as a thing, butthey were seeing insurers pull
(26:43):
out of their state and I thinkthat is a development that
really focuses the mind.
So I think a lot of statesacross the political divide and
localities are just going tohave to adapt, and I think we'll
be seeing more and more of that.
Whatever they call it, whateverpeople say they are adapting to
(27:04):
, they're going to have to do itif they want to remain where
they are.
Speaking of remaining where youare, I think there will be much
more focus on managed retreat.
You know, right now, about 50million people live in US
coastal cities.
That's about one in sevenAmericans.
You know those are some of themost vulnerable places to rising
(27:28):
seas and stronger storms, torising seas and stronger storms,
and a lot of those places willbe uninsurable, if not
uninhabitable, in the nextdecade.
So I think it's really pasttime to think about planning to
relocate people and propertybefore we are forced to do so,
because I think if it's thelatter, it will wind up being
(27:50):
done in a way that just you knowis really devastating for the
most vulnerable people.
So that's a conversation Ithink we'll be hearing more
about.
Stephanie Rouse (28:00):
It's interesting.
Jennifer and I are readingMiami and the Anthropocene right
now.
There was a statistic that andI can't remember which
projection year it is, butsomewhere far out in the future,
with rising sea level, thatthere's something like several
billion dollars worth ofproperty that will be underwater
by that point in time if theprojections continue as they're
(28:21):
seeing.
So it's just a crazy amount ofshoreline that we're going to
lose.
Laurie Mazur (28:26):
Yeah, and just put in a plug for an organization
that is really thinking aboutthese issues, the Urban Ocean
Lab.
It's run by Ayanna ElizabethJohnson, who I hope you're
looking at her books.
She's done some great stuff.
She wrote it's not an IslandPress book, but I'm going to
plug it anyway a contributedvolume called All we Can Save,
and she has a newer book out aswell.
(28:48):
But anyway, her organization,the Urban Ocean Lab, has done
some great thinking aboutcoastal cities in the era of
climate change.
Jennifer Hiatt (28:56):
Stephanie and I live in Nebraska Not an issue
for you, Not that part of it.
But the climate change issues.
No one knows them moreintimately than our farmers.
They talk about it all the time.
They just don't call it climatechange most of the time, and we
are also facing an inability orrising costs for homeowners
(29:17):
insurance because of the massivehailstorms that have started
ripping through our state.
So we are acutely aware of theproblems that you were just
talking about.
Laurie Mazur (29:28):
Oh, my goodness.
Yeah, and you know it's reallyinteresting to me in reporting
that piece on building codes isthere's so much that we already
know how to do.
I don't know about hailstormsspecifically, but you know, on
the issue of severe storms andhurricanes, there are just these
really simple fixes that areabout making sure that the roof
(29:51):
is securely attached to thebuilding.
They don't cost very much and,you know, it can be the
difference between saving thehome and losing it.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofscope for positive change.
Jennifer Hiatt (30:03):
Agreed.
So always our final question,because this is Booked on
Planning.
We're clearly big readers.
What books would you recommendour readers check out?
Laurie Mazur (30:13):
Well, I work for Island Press.
I have a lot of booksuggestions.
Kate Mingoya's book ClimateAction for Busy People is a
great book that just shows howwe can get over being
overwhelmed by climate changeand take action.
You know, right now, in ourcommunities that will make a
difference.
(30:34):
We mentioned Danielle Aragoniand her book Climate Resilience
for an Aging Nation.
I think it's just a reallyimportant and timely book about
the collision between climatechange and our rapidly aging
population, where people over 65will soon outnumber those under
18.
(30:54):
And I don't think any of ourcommunities are thinking hard
enough about how to protectthose folks.
Resilient Cities by PeterNewman, timothy Beatley and
Heather Boyer, who is also theexecutive editor at Island Press
, is full of really inspiringstories about cities that have
created efficient transportationsystems and green spaces and
(31:18):
lower carbon buildings.
So a lot of great inspirationthere.
And maybe the last one I willmention it's not so much focused
on planning or urban areas, butit's a book called Resilience
Thinking and it's an olderIsland Press book that kind of
changed my life, I have to say.
It's an introduction really tosystems thinking and the
(31:39):
resilience thinking that cameout of the natural sciences,
which I think has lots ofapplication in the built
environment.
It's a really interesting book.
Jennifer Hiatt (31:50):
I have to say systems thinking keeps popping
up again and again.
It's a really interesting book.
I have to say systems thinkingkeeps popping up again and again
.
We read a book calledmulti-solving about systems
thinking another island pressbook.
It definitely came up in ourlast conversations.
It's been everywhere.
Laurie Mazur (32:04):
It is everywhere, it's all connected and it's like
once you see that you don'tunsee it, and it's also kind of
a theory of change.
I mean, all systems aredifferent but they share some
characteristics and life cyclesand seeing sort of where you are
in your system and its lifecycle is just really helpful.
(32:25):
But I heartily endorsemultisolving.
That's another game-changing,mind-opening book heartily
endorsed multisolving.
Stephanie Rouse (32:33):
That's another game-changing, mind-opening book
.
Well, lori, really appreciateyou joining us to talk about
Resilience Matters 10 Years ofTransformative Thinking.
It's been a really greatconversation and more fun
interviewing you than Jenniferand I just talking about the
articles that we read.
So I appreciate you joining usfor this.
Laurie Mazur (32:47):
Well, it was my great pleasure and I admire what
you're doing and happy to be apart of it.
Jennifer Hiatt (32:54):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation with
author Lori Mazur about IslandPress's Resilience Matters 2025,
10 Years of TransformativeThinking.
You can access the article bygoing to Island Press's website
or click the link in the shownotes to take you directly to
the article.
Remember to subscribe to theshow wherever you listen to
podcasts, and please rate,review and share the show.
Thank you for listening andwe'll talk to you next time on
(33:14):
Booked, on Planning.
Thank you.
This episode is brought to you by Marvin
Planning Consultants.
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committed to their clients andprofessional organizations.
Their team of planners hasserved on chapter division and
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In addition, they are committedto supporting their chapter in
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You're listening to the BookedOn Planning Podcast, a project
(00:33):
of the Nebraska chapter of theAmerican Planning Association.
In each episode, we dive intohow cities function by talking
with authors on housing,transportation and everything in
between.
Join us as we get Booked onPlanning.
Welcome back, bookworms, toanother episode of Booked on
(00:59):
Planning.
In this episode, we talk witheditor Laurie Mazur about Island
Press's Resilience Matters2025,.
In this episode, we talk withLaurie Mazur about Island
Press's Resilience Matters 2025,10 Years of Transformative
Thinking.
This year's edition spans adecade of articles on resilience
, highlighting key areas in thefield as it's evolved since
Island Press started thisproject.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:16):
It was so special to be able to talk with
Laurie about this accomplishmentinstead of just discussing it
between ourselves.
Lori also provides insight intothe editing process and how her
team goes about selecting thearticles that they include every
year.
Stephanie Rouse (01:32):
Yeah, we've been covering this publication
for the past few years as aconversation between us on the
articles and you're right, it'sreally great to actually talk
with the editor and get somedetails behind the work and
learn more about their process.
I was shocked to find that it'sa team of two that creates this
lengthy compilation of articlesevery year.
Jennifer Hiatt (01:44):
I was shocked to find that it's a team of two
that creates this lengthycompilation of articles every
year.
Yes, I really felt like we wereable to bond over a team of two
splitting a bunch of heavy work.
In this time of increasingclimate disasters, it is
important to remain positive,that we can be the change and
bring resilience to ourcommunities.
Resilience Matters shows us thesteps for doing that.
So let's get into ourconversation with author Lori
Mazur about Island Press'sResilience Matters 2025.
Stephanie Rouse (02:08):
Well, lori, thank you for joining us on
Booked on Planning to talk aboutResilience Matters 10 Years of
Transformative Thinking.
Resilience Matters is acollection of articles and
op-eds published onresiliency-related topics each
year, this one focusing onarticles from the last decade.
As editor of this publication,how did this get started and
what are the goals of thispublication?
Laurie Mazur (02:30):
Yeah, well, first, thank you so much for having me
.
So Resilience Matters ispublished by Island Press, which
is, as you know, a longtimenonprofit environmental book
publisher, and about 10 yearsago Island Press launched
something called the UrbanResilience Project for a couple
of reasons.
First, we saw that there was agreat opportunity to help define
(02:53):
the emerging field of climateresilience.
You know, when we got started,there were more and more climate
disasters and the termresilience was being thrown
around a lot and becomingsomething of a buzzword, but it
was often just simply defined asbouncing back after a disaster.
And, of course, bouncing backto the unsustainable, unjust
(03:16):
status quo pretty muchguarantees that we get more
disasters.
So we wanted to explore youknow what it would mean to make
our communities truly resilient.
You know to think about how wecould actually bounce forward,
you know, to survive and thrivein the era of climate change.
And secondly, we saw a lot ofnew opportunities in the media
(03:39):
landscape, because the fact is,people are getting more and more
of their news and informationonline.
Books, we believe, are still thegold standard, but people are
reading more short-form contentonline and we felt a need to
reach them there.
So the Urban Resilience Projecthas tried to both explore and
(04:01):
shape thinking on climateresilience, while also finding
new ways to reach people in thisnew, shifting media landscape.
So we collaborate with lots ofdifferent kinds of folks
activists, planners, islandPress, book authors and others
and we help them producearticles and op-eds and then we
(04:22):
place that content in variousmedia mostly online, but also
sometimes in print andResilience Matters is our annual
compilation of articles andop-eds that we've helped people
publish, and we do this becauseshort form pieces have a very
short half-life they flit acrossthe screen and they're gone,
(04:42):
and there are just a lot ofgreat ideas in these pieces.
So we thought that thecompilation was a good way to
give them a little morelongevity, and then, after 10
years of doing this work, we hada collection of more than 700
articles and op-eds, so wedecided to collect some of our
favorite pieces into one volume.
Jennifer Hiatt (05:02):
Well, we love any opportunity to mention
Island Press on this podcast,and this is actually our third
year of featuring ResilienceMatters, but the first time that
we've gotten to speak with you.
So you're the editor for IslandPress's Urban Resilience
Project.
How did you connect with IslandPress and what is the Urban
Resilience Project?
Laurie Mazur (05:21):
Well, I actually go way back with Island Press.
I published two books with them, one in 1994 and one in 2011.
And I've just done a lot ofwork with them over the years
and you know Island Press isreally it's just kind of a
treasure in this field.
You know, as a nonprofit,island Press publishes a lot of
(05:43):
important books that would neversee the light of day at a
commercial publisher.
Stephanie Rouse (05:48):
In your introduction you mentioned that
over the course of 10 yearsyou've covered over 700 articles
.
This edition only contains 61,if I counted correctly, in four
different topic areas.
How did you go about curatingwhich of the articles would make
it and then narrowing it downto what just ends up in this
document?
Laurie Mazur (06:06):
It was so hard.
There was a lot of great stuffthat was left on the cutting
room floor, but we tried to comeup with a representative
sampling of the many issues thatcontribute to resilience and
there are many and of the youknow, diverse perspectives of
the authors we work with.
There's lots more where thatcame from.
Stephanie Rouse (06:28):
And I'm curious who all is part of the team
that reviews and narrows downthe articles that end up in the
Resilience Matters publications.
The team is quite small.
Laurie Mazur (06:39):
It is comprised of myself and Kyler Joffroy, who's
our online marketing manager,and the two of us are the Urban
Resilience Project.
I'm the editorial half of theproject and I help folks with
writing and editing of theirarticles and op-eds, and then
Kyler is the media whisperer whoplaces them in appropriate
(07:00):
outlets.
That's the whole team.
Jennifer Hiatt (07:02):
You guys do a lot of work for a team of two.
It's really awesome.
We understand that too A lot ofwork for a team of two.
Laurie Mazur (07:09):
I guess you do.
Jennifer Hiatt (07:10):
Your first article in this year's
Resilience Matters is about notbeing able to have resilience
without having justice and trust.
Why did you feel it wasimportant to lead off with this
article?
Laurie Mazur (07:23):
Yeah, this article by Denise Fairchild highlights
something that is justabsolutely fundamental about
resilience.
This is not just atechnological issue, it's a
people issue.
I mean sure in this togetherthat we're connected to our
neighbors, that we help eachother in hard times.
High-profile killings talkedabout how unjust police killings
(07:46):
of Black people was erodingtrust, and trust is a bedrock of
(08:14):
social cohesion.
You know, if you can't trustthe authorities, will you
evacuate when they tell you to?
Will you stay home inquarantine during a pandemic?
So you know, a lack of trust isjust extremely corrosive to
social cohesion and resiliencebecause it can also interfere
with disaster response, and wesaw that last year in North
(08:37):
Carolina after Hurricane Helenewhen FEMA had to stop work in
some places because there werecredible threats of violence
which had been stoked byright-wing media.
But at the same time, thatparticular disaster, I think,
also provided a lot of greatexamples of social cohesion.
There was an incredible comingtogether of people from all
(08:59):
walks of life to clear debrisand supply drinking water after
the city's water system wasdestroyed.
So there are a lot of examplesof that too.
Stephanie Rouse (09:10):
Yeah, it reminds me one of your authors,
daniela Aragoni's book, whereshe was talking about how
community is so important withclimate adaptation and climate
change, and especially for olderadults that need that social
network to help them in times ofstress and change.
Laurie Mazur (09:25):
Yeah, that is so true.
And in fact, one of the bestexamples of this Eric
Kleinenberg the sociologist dida book years ago.
I think it was called Heat Waveand it was about a heat wave in
Chicago in 1998, probablygetting stuff wrong here, but he
compared these twoneighborhoods and they were both
low-income, predominantly Blackneighborhoods and in that heat
(09:49):
wave one had incredibly highmortality rates and the other
had very low mortality rates andhe showed that the difference
between these two communitiesand you reminded me of this by
mentioning Daniel Arrigoni,because most of the fatalities
in heat waves and otherdisasters are among the elderly
(10:10):
so he showed that it wascommunity cohesion that
literally kept people alive.
You know people who were askingabout their elderly neighbors
and checking on them.
So yeah, it's huge.
Stephanie Rouse (10:23):
So over 10 years, I'm sure you've seen some
changing trends, types ofarticles that are getting
written.
So what are some of those bigchanges that you've seen over
the years doing this type ofwork?
Laurie Mazur (10:33):
Yeah, it's been a busy 10 years.
There's a lot more coverage ofthese issues, in part because
there are a lot more climatedisasters.
You know, last year we had 27major weather disasters in the
United States which killed 568people and cost about $180
(10:54):
billion, and that was the secondhighest number of
billion-dollar weather disastersin our history, just behind
2023.
So naturally there's moreinterest in how we can be more
resilient in the face of climatechange.
I think there's also moreunderstanding of the complexity
(11:14):
of resilience.
You know those people inAsheville who didn't have
potable water for four monthsare thinking about their water
system.
You know people who haveexperienced long-term power
(11:38):
outages are rethinking.
You know whether a massive,interconnected and vulnerable
grid is the best way to keep thelights on.
I think there's a lot morecoverage over the last decade of
just the basic unfairness ofclimate impacts, of how they
reflect existing inequities andalso make them worse.
(12:00):
You know, for example, we knowthat the racist, redlining
policies of the 20th century ledto underinvestment in black and
brown neighborhoods, and we'velearned that the lingering
effects of those policies nowmake those neighborhoods more
vulnerable to climate impactsbecause they have more concrete
(12:20):
and less green space.
These neighborhoods are a lothotter like 15 degrees hotter
than wealthier and greenerneighborhoods, and because
they're often in low-lying areaswith poor infrastructure.
These neighborhoods are alsomore vulnerable to flooding.
So, I do think that thatevolving understanding of
(12:42):
resilience is reflected inarticles and op-eds on this
topic, certainly the ones thatwe publish.
Jennifer Hiatt (12:51):
And speaking of the articles that you have
published, you made an almostprophetic statement in 2019 in
one of the articles that youwrote, stating the dangers of
interdependent societies do notwarrant a wholesale retreat from
interdependence.
That path could leave usisolated and friendless in a
dangerous world, and it woulddampen the dynism that comes
(13:11):
from global trade and goods andideas.
So now, almost six years later,we are in fact headed straight
down that path.
So how can we find a sweet spotbetween the interconnectedness
that is somewhat harmful and thehyper self-sufficiency that is
certainly unharmful in such anunbalanced time, or
self-sufficiency that iscertainly unharmful in such an
unbalanced time.
Laurie Mazur (13:35):
Yeah, unbalanced, you got that right.
Yeah, it's such a good question.
And I think one insight fromresilience thinking is that
resilience systems tend to bemodular.
They can connect to largernetworks on a good day, but they
can also disconnect and besomewhat self-sufficient on a
bad day.
You know when the grid goesdown or there's a global
pandemic.
So, for example, if yourbuilding has solar panels on the
(13:57):
roof that are tied to the grid,you benefit from that
connection because you can sellyour excess power when the sun
is shining and you can draw fromthe grid at night when it's not
.
And if you also have backupbattery storage, you can keep
the lights on when the sun isshining and you can draw from
the grid at night when it's not.
And if you also have backupbattery storage, you can keep
the lights on when the grid goesdown.
So you know, I think bothconnectedness and
self-sufficiency have value, andthe trick, as you said, is in
(14:21):
finding the sweet spot betweenthe two, and that spot will be
different in differentsituations, but I think a
general rule would be to avoidabsolutism on either side, to
recognize the value of both.
You know, absolutism is say,deciding that trade is harmful
(14:42):
to your economy and slappinghumongous tariffs on everything.
But I think it's important tothink about what critical goods
or functions would be mostvulnerable in a crisis and
really work to build in someself-sufficiency in those areas.
I mean, of course, this is nothow businesses think in this
(15:02):
economy, but I think that ischanging.
I think the days ofjust-in-time supply chains may
be over, because I think peoplereally saw the costs of that
approach during the pandemic.
Stephanie Rouse (15:17):
And you also touched on a little bit how,
when you started ResilienceMatters 10 years ago, it was
because you know this termresilience was getting thrown
around and it was becoming alittle more common and trying to
help define that.
And then, in 2016, you wrote anarticle that defined resilience
as the capacity of a communityto anticipate, plan for and
mitigate the risks and seize theopportunities associated with
(15:39):
environmental and social change.
In the last nine years, hasthis definition changed or has
anything in the field changed.
Laurie Mazur (15:48):
That you've noticed.
I still think that's a prettygood definition of resilience.
You'll note that it's not justabout climate, but environmental
and social change moregenerally, and that's because we
are just living in this era ofunprecedented change.
on so many fronts, We'vedestabilized the climate and
natural systems that we dependon.
(16:09):
So that is like a grandexperiment we are conducting,
the results of which will beunpredictable and often
devastating.
And at the same time, we havethese huge, sprawling global
networks of commerce andinformation that just
metastasize disruptions globally, whether they are financial
(16:32):
crises or pandemics.
And then, at the same time, wehave these new technologies like
artificial intelligence thatpromise to reshape our world in
ways that we can barely imagine.
So yeah, resilience is all aboutcoping with change good and bad
and making sure that the risksand the benefits of those
(16:53):
changes are fairly shared sothat everybody has a chance to
live a good life.
I will say that that remains anaspirational goal.
We're pretty far from achievingit, but I think it's still the
right goal.
Jennifer Hiatt (17:07):
Have to keep your aspirations and make sure
they're high.
So I'm a policy wonk, so Ireally love that you have a
whole section about policy inResilience Matters, and the
former presidentialadministration was considered
one of the greenest in history.
But our current administrationhas decided to take action,
reversing most of those greenpolicies.
(17:28):
I know there's never one singlelike silver bullet solution,
but what are one or two policiesyou'd urge leaders at any
governmental level to startimplementing immediately?
That would have the biggestchange.
Laurie Mazur (17:41):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right.
The Biden administration'sInflation Reduction Act was the
nation's biggest ever investmentin climate.
It was like nearly $400 billion, I think, for clean energy and
climate justice and lots of goodstuff.
There was also funding fordisaster mitigation in various
(18:02):
spending bills.
Another important thing theydid was to require that public
infrastructure that was damagedin climate impacts be rebuilt in
a way that prevents futuredamage, which makes so much
sense, so that taxpayers don'thave to keep paying to rebuild
the same bridge over and overagain.
But now, as you said, thecurrent administration is
(18:24):
reversing course, to put itmildly.
They're trying to claw back thefunds and cancel any programs
related to climate or cleanenergy, and also rolling back
the regulations that the Bidenadministration implemented on
you know, sort of buildingresilience into public
infrastructure.
They've launched a full-scaleassault on climate science and
(18:48):
information, cutting funds forNOAA so that we can't track
greenhouse gases or even theweather and, of course,
canceling the National ClimateAssessment that communities and
businesses rely on to plan theirfutures.
So I think the theory seems tobe that what we don't know about
climate change won't hurt us,but I would say that's pretty
(19:09):
much the opposite of the truth.
So what to do Vote, of course.
I think a lot of Americans careabout climate resilience, but
don't carry that concern intothe voting booth.
So if we want policies thatreflect our concern about
climate resilience, it's time tomake this voting issue.
(19:29):
I think there's also just atremendous amount that we can do
at the local and state andregional levels, and I will say
that local, community-basedgroups have really shown
themselves to be the MVPs ofresilience.
These are groups that buildtrust and social cohesion by
responding to people's immediateconcerns.
(19:51):
So I think they are kind ofuniquely situated to identify
and solve community problems,community problems, and a lot of
these groups have come up withpolicy solutions that have since
been adopted at higher levelsor in other cities and
localities, and they're also thefirst line of defense in any
disruption like a hurricane or apandemic, before the official
(20:14):
help arrives.
I know it's not a policy, but Iwould recommend finding a group
like that in your community orstarting one to figure out what
the policies are that are neededwhere you live.
And thinking about policies, Imean there's so much to do, but
since it's almost summer, maybeI could focus on some policies
(20:34):
for dealing with extreme heat,which, as we said, is by far the
deadliest climate impact,especially for older people.
So I think in your communityyou can advocate for cooling
centers or bus shelters thatprotect people from the sun.
I mean, these are small changesthat really make a huge
difference.
Some communities haveinstituted programs to provide
(20:58):
air conditioners for people whocan't afford them, and again,
these are often elderly peopleliving on fixed incomes who are
absolutely the most at risk fromextreme heat.
A few states have passedlegislation that prevents
utilities from shutting offpeople's electricity during a
heat wave, which again saveslives.
Protections for outdoor workersare really important, like
(21:23):
mandating water and shade breaks.
We've seen some states tryingto well, succeeding actually in
rolling back such protections.
I know Texas and Florida cometo mind.
Protections were instituted bylocalities and then they were
rolled back by the statelegislature.
But again, these are policiesthat save lives and we should
(21:45):
all be working to promote.
Stephanie Rouse (21:48):
You know, I think your point about
localities being more importantin the next four years for
moving this forward is a goodone, and right during the
transition in January, I thinkthe message came down from our
mayor that the Conference ofMayors was like we've been here
before, we had to pick up themantle.
It wasn't the federalgovernment.
So cities and communities arereally having to step up and we
(22:08):
can do this again.
It's just going to take somemore intentionality, more
connections and working togetherat the local level.
Laurie Mazur (22:14):
Yeah, absolutely I agree, and you know, cities
have been just great innovatorson policy in this area, so it's
a natural role for them.
Stephanie Rouse (22:25):
So there was a quote from an article you wrote
about the first UnitarianUniversalist church in Orange,
new Jersey.
That I think sums up a lot ofthe articles and it said it's a
way of getting to know ourneighbors, not coming in with
answers from the outside.
What do you think were some ofthe more impactful stories of
neighborhoods and communitiesleading action versus outsiders
coming in with solutions?
Laurie Mazur (22:47):
There's so many.
One of my favorites is about agroup called Catalyst Miami in
Miami Florida, and this is acommunity group that kept
hearing from their folks thatthey were really struggling with
the hotter summers and thecounty had a climate policy, but
it was mostly focused at thatpoint this was about 10 years
ago, I guess it was mostlyfocused on sea level rise, which
(23:10):
is admittedly an existentialthreat in South Florida, but the
county officials said that theycouldn't act on heat because
they didn't really have dataaside from what they got on the
weather report.
The weather report came frommeasurements that were taken at
the airport and not in placeswhere people live or walk to
school or wait for a bus.
(23:30):
So Catalyst Miami teamed upwith a local university to do
citizen science, where theyplaced heat sensors in places
where people were actuallyexperiencing the heat in their
apartments, the bus stops andyou know.
They found that it was a lothotter in a lot of those places
(23:51):
than it was at the airport.
So they shared that data withthe county and the county then
went ahead and appointed thenation's first chief heat
officer who has gone on todevelop a comprehensive plan for
dealing with extreme heat.
Also, there have been, I think,seven cities that have since
adopted chief heat officers,including, if I'm not mistaken,
(24:14):
phoenix.
So I mean this was a totalbottom-up solution of people
figuring out what was the mostimportant issue in their
community.
You know, taking charge of theresearch, going to government,
but in all cases partnering withscientists, partnering with
local government to come up withsolutions, and they have come
up with some really innovativepolicies in that area.
(24:36):
Another group of stories thereare some stories in the book
about communities that wereaffected by repeated floods, who
got together to fight forchange, like the folks in DeSoto
, missouri, whose communityflooded four times in three
years, and they started aFacebook group and started
asking questions and complainingand they caught the attention
(25:00):
of a national network of floodsurvivor groups called Higher
Ground, and this network haspartnered with scientists from
something called the ThrivingEarth Exchange, a program of the
American Geophysical Union, andthey work together to sort of
study the problem in theselocations and then raise money
(25:21):
from the federal government toimplement local solutions.
And they've done a lot of reallyinnovative green infrastructure
projects in their communitiesto absorb the floodwaters, so
yeah, they have a lot of amazingstories of work they've done
and again, it came from thebottom up and was enhanced by
building a network andconnecting across all of these
(25:44):
localities.
So great stuff.
Jennifer Hiatt (25:47):
What direction do you see resilience moving
toward in the next 10 years?
So when we meet again and wediscuss the 20 year edition of
Resilience Matters, I thinkthose articles are going to
cover.
Laurie Mazur (25:59):
Oh, I don't know, somebody else may be in charge
by then, but yeah, good question.
I think that there will be morepragmatic success stories from
the local level, because peoplejust have no other choice but to
adapt, and that is and will be,I think, in red states as well
(26:19):
as blue states.
You know, I think one of thestories in Resilience Matters
that I thought was reallyinteresting is about how the
state of Alabama has implementedsome of the best building codes
in the country to protect homesfrom extreme weather.
You know, this is a state thatdoes not officially recognize
climate change as a thing, butthey were seeing insurers pull
(26:43):
out of their state and I thinkthat is a development that
really focuses the mind.
So I think a lot of statesacross the political divide and
localities are just going tohave to adapt, and I think we'll
be seeing more and more of that.
Whatever they call it, whateverpeople say they are adapting to
(27:04):
, they're going to have to do itif they want to remain where
they are.
Speaking of remaining where youare, I think there will be much
more focus on managed retreat.
You know, right now, about 50million people live in US
coastal cities.
That's about one in sevenAmericans.
You know those are some of themost vulnerable places to rising
(27:28):
seas and stronger storms, torising seas and stronger storms,
and a lot of those places willbe uninsurable, if not
uninhabitable, in the nextdecade.
So I think it's really pasttime to think about planning to
relocate people and propertybefore we are forced to do so,
because I think if it's thelatter, it will wind up being
(27:50):
done in a way that just you knowis really devastating for the
most vulnerable people.
So that's a conversation Ithink we'll be hearing more
about.
Stephanie Rouse (28:00):
It's interesting.
Jennifer and I are readingMiami and the Anthropocene right
now.
There was a statistic that andI can't remember which
projection year it is, butsomewhere far out in the future,
with rising sea level, thatthere's something like several
billion dollars worth ofproperty that will be underwater
by that point in time if theprojections continue as they're
(28:21):
seeing.
So it's just a crazy amount ofshoreline that we're going to
lose.
Laurie Mazur (28:26):
Yeah, and just put in a plug for an organization
that is really thinking aboutthese issues, the Urban Ocean
Lab.
It's run by Ayanna ElizabethJohnson, who I hope you're
looking at her books.
She's done some great stuff.
She wrote it's not an IslandPress book, but I'm going to
plug it anyway a contributedvolume called All we Can Save,
and she has a newer book out aswell.
(28:48):
But anyway, her organization,the Urban Ocean Lab, has done
some great thinking aboutcoastal cities in the era of
climate change.
Jennifer Hiatt (28:56):
Stephanie and I live in Nebraska Not an issue
for you, Not that part of it.
But the climate change issues.
No one knows them moreintimately than our farmers.
They talk about it all the time.
They just don't call it climatechange most of the time, and we
are also facing an inability orrising costs for homeowners
(29:17):
insurance because of the massivehailstorms that have started
ripping through our state.
So we are acutely aware of theproblems that you were just
talking about.
Laurie Mazur (29:28):
Oh, my goodness.
Yeah, and you know it's reallyinteresting to me in reporting
that piece on building codes isthere's so much that we already
know how to do.
I don't know about hailstormsspecifically, but you know, on
the issue of severe storms andhurricanes, there are just these
really simple fixes that areabout making sure that the roof
(29:51):
is securely attached to thebuilding.
They don't cost very much and,you know, it can be the
difference between saving thehome and losing it.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofscope for positive change.
Jennifer Hiatt (30:03):
Agreed.
So always our final question,because this is Booked on
Planning.
We're clearly big readers.
What books would you recommendour readers check out?
Laurie Mazur (30:13):
Well, I work for Island Press.
I have a lot of booksuggestions.
Kate Mingoya's book ClimateAction for Busy People is a
great book that just shows howwe can get over being
overwhelmed by climate changeand take action.
You know, right now, in ourcommunities that will make a
difference.
(30:34):
We mentioned Danielle Aragoniand her book Climate Resilience
for an Aging Nation.
I think it's just a reallyimportant and timely book about
the collision between climatechange and our rapidly aging
population, where people over 65will soon outnumber those under
18.
(30:54):
And I don't think any of ourcommunities are thinking hard
enough about how to protectthose folks.
Resilient Cities by PeterNewman, timothy Beatley and
Heather Boyer, who is also theexecutive editor at Island Press
, is full of really inspiringstories about cities that have
created efficient transportationsystems and green spaces and
(31:18):
lower carbon buildings.
So a lot of great inspirationthere.
And maybe the last one I willmention it's not so much focused
on planning or urban areas, butit's a book called Resilience
Thinking and it's an olderIsland Press book that kind of
changed my life, I have to say.
It's an introduction really tosystems thinking and the
(31:39):
resilience thinking that cameout of the natural sciences,
which I think has lots ofapplication in the built
environment.
It's a really interesting book.
Jennifer Hiatt (31:50):
I have to say systems thinking keeps popping
up again and again.
It's a really interesting book.
I have to say systems thinkingkeeps popping up again and again
.
We read a book calledmulti-solving about systems
thinking another island pressbook.
It definitely came up in ourlast conversations.
It's been everywhere.
Laurie Mazur (32:04):
It is everywhere, it's all connected and it's like
once you see that you don'tunsee it, and it's also kind of
a theory of change.
I mean, all systems aredifferent but they share some
characteristics and life cyclesand seeing sort of where you are
in your system and its lifecycle is just really helpful.
(32:25):
But I heartily endorsemultisolving.
That's another game-changing,mind-opening book heartily
endorsed multisolving.
Stephanie Rouse (32:33):
That's another game-changing, mind-opening book
.
Well, lori, really appreciateyou joining us to talk about
Resilience Matters 10 Years ofTransformative Thinking.
It's been a really greatconversation and more fun
interviewing you than Jenniferand I just talking about the
articles that we read.
So I appreciate you joining usfor this.
Laurie Mazur (32:47):
Well, it was my great pleasure and I admire what
you're doing and happy to be apart of it.
Jennifer Hiatt (32:54):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation with
author Lori Mazur about IslandPress's Resilience Matters 2025,
10 Years of TransformativeThinking.
You can access the article bygoing to Island Press's website
or click the link in the shownotes to take you directly to
the article.
Remember to subscribe to theshow wherever you listen to
podcasts, and please rate,review and share the show.
Thank you for listening andwe'll talk to you next time on
(33:14):
Booked, on Planning.
Thank you.
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