Lawrence Wright's "Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief" pulls back the curtain on Scientology's most guarded secrets, revealing a world where science fiction becomes religious doctrine and Hollywood celebrities become powerful pawns in a global organization.
The journey begins with Lafayette Ronald Hubbard—a charismatic science fiction writer whose creation of Dianetics evolved into a belief system involving alien spirits called Thetans and promises of supernatural abilities through "going clear." What makes this investigation so compelling is the meticulous research behind every shocking revelation. Wright's book and its documentary adaptation don't just make allegations; they substantiate them through extensive interviews with former high-ranking members who witnessed the inner workings firsthand.
Most fascinating is Scientology's calculated infiltration of Hollywood. The documentary exposes how the church allegedly manipulated Tom Cruise's relationships, including orchestrating his breakup with Nicole Kidman and later "auditioning" potential partners without their knowledge. These celebrity connections provided the organization with both legitimacy and protection, even as troubling allegations of abuse mounted under David Miscavige's leadership.
The most disturbing aspects involve the "Sea Org," where members sign billion-year contracts and reportedly face harsh punishment for questioning authority. Former members describe a sophisticated system of control where deeply personal information gathered during "auditing" sessions becomes potential blackmail material against those who might leave. This creates a true "prison of belief" where psychological chains prove stronger than physical ones.
Whether you choose the comprehensive book or its condensed documentary version, you'll find yourself unable to look away from this fascinating exploration of how seemingly intelligent people can become entrapped in a web of belief that defies conventional understanding. After experiencing either, you'll never view Scientology—or organized belief systems in general—quite the same way again.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Books vs Movies, the podcast where I set
out to answer the age-oldquestion is the book really
always better than the movie?
I'm Yuvia, an actress and booklover based out of New York City
, and today I will be discussingGoing Clear Scientology
Hollywood and the Prison ofBelief by Lawrence Wright and
its 2015 adaptation Going ClearScientology and the Prison of
(00:25):
Belief.
All right, hi everyone, I havea bit of a doozy for you.
So this one's going to be kindof like Our Towns, in which I'm
comparing a nonfiction book toits adaptation, which is
technically a documentary.
So there's a lot of the sameinformation.
So it's kind of like how do Icompare and contrast the two?
(00:47):
So very much, there isn'treally much to contrast.
Like, the information you findin the documentary is the
information you find in the book.
It kind of just depends on whatyou are interested in and how
deep you want to delve into thetopic.
And boy oh boy was this.
Wow, I am in just disbeliefafter reading this book.
(01:10):
It was absolutely fascinating.
The documentary is just asfascinating.
Highly recommend both.
But wow, this was this.
Yeah, there was.
I just everything I learnedabout Scientology.
I'm just like it's just one ofthose things.
It's just one of those thingsthat's like I, yeah, it's wild,
(01:30):
it's so wild, this religion isso wild, and let's just get into
it Going clear.
Scientology, hollywood and thePrison of Belief by Lawrence
Wright was first published in2013.
This was also a GoodreadsChoice Award nominee in 2013 for
(01:52):
Reader's Favorite Nonfiction,and I can see why this is
absolutely fascinating.
All right, so this book issplit into three parts
Scientology, hollywood and thePrison of Belief and kind of.
The Scientology section isreally focused on L Ron Hubbard
and kind of how he came tocreate this religion.
(02:14):
And then Hollywood focuses onhow it kind of took over
Hollywood and how it managed tosuck in so many celebrities.
And then the Prison of Belieffocuses mainly on Scientology
how it is now under L RonHubbard's successor, david
Miscavige, and just all the taskhe has of preserving the church
(02:37):
in the face of ongoing scandalsand continual legal assaults.
So, yeah, we learn aboutScientology's cosmology, about
the auditing process, about thebridge to total freedom.
We see how the church broughtin celebrities such as Tom
Cruise and John Travolta, whoare probably some of the more
(03:00):
famous faces of Scientology.
There were people interviewedthat have been disconnected from
friends and family by thechurch after they decided to
break away, and there are a lotof firsthand stories in the book
that detail the violence thathas permeated the church.
The 2015 documentary GoingClear Scientology and the Prison
(03:25):
of Belief, directed by AlexGibney, is a documentary that
looks at the inner workings ofthe Church of Scientology.
So, yeah, it's wild, and I'mstill kind of just in disbelief
about a lot of the things that Ilearned while reading this book
.
And I don't even know where tobegin.
(03:45):
I guess I will begin by tellingyou about L Ron Hubbard's name.
So, obviously, l Ron Hubbard is, it's his name, it's his real
name but, like, obviously that'sshortened His birth name is
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard.
So I don't know about you, butthat name sounds like it's
asking to start a religion ofsome sort.
(04:07):
It is my belief I'm not sayingthat this is reality, but it is
my belief that this religion isa cult.
So if anyone is going to starta cult, it's going to be someone
called Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, just saying but yeah, so we
learn a lot about L Ron Hubbard,how he came.
(04:28):
He started off as a sciencefiction writer and from there he
created the religion ofScientology and we learned.
As I said, this book is dividedinto three parts.
The first part really focuseson L Ron Hubbard's origins and
the origins of scientology and,yeah, like the.
So he basically states that weare all phaetons, which is like
(04:50):
a human, we're like we're aliensliving inside human bodies, and
to reach the highest level iswhen we die.
We are turned back into thosealiens, like we have gone clear.
That is the meaning of goingclear.
Going clear is when you likeessentially free your mind and
your body of everything andyou're able to illuminate your
(05:12):
life and see your all your pastlives, everything.
So auditing, the thing that Imentioned is essentially you're
hooked up to an e-meter and thenthe e-meter reads it, and when
you first start off the auditingprocess, the e-meter is going
like crazy because it's catchingup on everything, and so you're
basically taught that theremight be something in your past
(05:36):
life that is so essentially,this is the belief of Dianetics.
Dianetics is the ability to healyourself of any ailment, any
conditions.
So if you are sick, you don'tneed medicine.
If you break a bone, if youhave cancer, you can heal
yourself of cancer.
And if you're not healing, thatis because you are not opening
(05:57):
yourself to going clear.
So how do you go clear?
You are hooked up to thee-reader machine and then let's
say that you broke your arm andit's not healing.
That's because something,there's something in your past
life that is preventing your armfrom currently healing.
So something, there's a pastlife somewhere.
(06:17):
Maybe I'm explaining like this.
It's a very difficult conceptto explain, but it's not a
difficult concept to understand.
So I apologize if I'mexplaining this horribly, but
essentially, like so many peoplestart remembering their past
lives and they see like, oh yeah, this happened to me and that
is what's preventing me.
And like I broke my arm in thesame way and now my past life
(06:40):
isn't allowing my current lifeto heal itself because of the
hurt caused in my past life.
So I choose to let my past lifego and it's like, miraculously,
my arm is healed.
So that's the basic premise ofit.
It's, yeah, it's fascinating,but there was a lot of things in
the Sea Org, which is, I guess,that's what I mean originally.
(07:01):
It got that name because theyliterally lived on sea or on a
big ship Certain members ofScientology that were handpicked
by L Ron Hubbard, and I guessthey kept that name because, as
far as I know, they're not.
There's no one living at seaanymore, but anyway, yeah, so he
, while he's like living outthere, like his health is
seriously deteriorating, he'sgoing blind, there's all these
(07:24):
things, and people that were onthe ship were kind of
questioning, like, why is he notusing Dianetics to heal himself
?
But it's L Ron Hubbard, he'sthe head of the church, so they
don't want to question him toohard, and it's just one of those
things that, like, had theyquestioned him a little bit more
, maybe this Scientologywouldn't have been able to get
as big as it did.
Because they were.
(07:44):
There was a lot of people that,like, were questioning what he
was saying and his teachings,but they weren't pushing too
much against it.
Like there was also he was alsosaying like, oh, I have the
ability to fly over New York,but I'm not gonna do that
because it's gonna freak peopleout too much and and so, like a
lot of his followers were like,well, why don't you just not,
just not to his face?
(08:05):
But they were thinking like,well, why doesn't he just do it?
Because if he does it, a lot ofpeople will be turned to
Scientology, because it's like,look at what Scientology can do
and I have a little bit ofdoubts myself.
So like seeing that will likeclear my doubts.
But again, no one everquestioned him on this, no one
ever pushed him on this, andlike the people closest to him
that heard him say these things,even though they were doubting,
(08:27):
like they kept these feelingsto themselves and didn't share
it with anyone.
So it's just one of thosethings that I wonder, like had
someone had the courage to likecall him out on it, would
Scientology still exist today?
But I don't know, maybe itwould, because it's one of those
things that by the time theystarted living at sea, the
Church of the ScientologyCelebrity Center was already
started in Hollywood.
(08:49):
So who knows, maybe just havingthat such a big distance from
the people at sea and people onland at the Celebrity Center
would have been enough to keepit going.
I don't know, that's just oneof those things that I question.
But yeah, it's just there waslike there's just so much abuse
in the church and it's one ofthose things that there's a lot
of like contradicting reportsand a lot of Scientologists
(09:10):
today obviously say like thisnever happened.
There's a lot of likecontradicting.
Like someone who was inScientology will say something
and then people in still in thereligion today will say, well,
that person's lying, youshouldn't believe anything they
say.
And there's also like theliterature I guess I'm just
going to call it the equivalentof the Bible to Christianity of
(09:31):
Scientology is there's kind oflike conflicting reports about
whether or not it exists.
There's people within thereligion that say that it does
and they've seen it, and thenthere's people that say it
doesn't.
And there's just like a lot ofsecrets in Scientology that they
like to keep to themselves andthey kind of dispute everything
(09:52):
that's kind of presented to them.
So yeah, but there's like againlike a lot of abuse.
Like there was instances inwhich if a child misbehaved,
that was like a big no-no,obviously, like that means they
weren't being trained to startgoing clear, I guess at such a
young age, and so they would belocked up in this really dark
(10:15):
cell in the ship and they wouldstart, they would cry because
it's like this dark, enclosedspace, and they would just cry
and yell and I mean I don't knowhow the parents could just
allow that to happen.
I don't know that there'sanything that any religion that
could convince me that treatingmy child that way is the right
(10:35):
thing to do.
But that's just me.
I don't know that I could do it.
I'd be like, if you're going totreat my child that way, I'm
out.
But that's just to me.
But yeah, just like really wildstories.
And then we get into theHollywood section and we kind of
learn how Scientology was ableto attract a lot of young
celebrities and keep them there.
(10:57):
And there's obviously, like theface of Scientology now, the
celebrity face of Scientologynow is Tom Cruise, and it's one
of those things that it isalleged that the Church of
Scientology is.
What came between him andNicole Kidman.
Like Tom Cruise met NicoleKidman and although he continued
to practice Scientology whilehe was with her, he was kind of
(11:21):
disassociating from it a littlebit.
And so Nicole was, the churchwas desperate to keep Tom Cruise
, to keep this big namecelebrity under their church,
and so they Nicole Kidman wasdeclared an SP, which stands for
suppressive person, andessentially a suppressive person
is someone who's preventing youfrom reaching the highest level
(11:43):
of Scientology, which is like Idon't know, I guess, going
clear.
You can call it.
It's kind of like enlightenment, like once you reach this level
of enlightenment, you know, youknow all about the history of
the Thetans and how to get backto it once you die, and, yeah,
and how to get back to like theEarth ship or whatever, like the
mothership, I should say,whatever, whatever they believe
(12:04):
that was.
I still don't really understandit myself, but it's something
like the whole what happensafter you die.
And once you've gotten clearand you know what happens after
you die, which is like you'renot resurrected, you're just you
go back to your alien life formis what I understood.
But so, yeah, so a suppressiveperson is someone who's
preventing you from reaching thehighest level and a lot of the
(12:26):
times, especially if thesuppressive person is not a
practicing Scientologist, youare expected to cut them out of
your life and a lot of people doso.
Many people have cut SPs out oftheir life because that SP is
ruining their relationship witha religion and with their own
personal self is how they see it.
So she was declared an SP andat first Tom Cruise is kind of
(12:49):
like, resistant to the idea, andthen one day they offer like
again, desperate to keep him.
They call him in for a reallyspecial auditing session.
He goes to this auditingsession.
He's gone for a few days.
After that auditing session hecomes back and completely
blindsides Nicole Kidman and islike we're getting a divorce and
(13:10):
this really caught her offguard.
And so, yeah, I mean they wentthrough the divorce and I mean
it's probably good that NicoleKidman got out of that
relationship, just saying butyeah, yeah, she, yeah, so she
was.
He completely blindsided herafter this auditing session and
he learned some things abouthimself and his marriage.
(13:30):
That was just like I need toend this right here for him and
they wanted someone who wasgonna look good and like look
(13:51):
good by his side and just like,essentially, they arranged his,
his next few partners for him.
So it's like, does he really so?
It's one of those things that'slike, did he really love?
Like Katie Holmes, for example,like I have?
I'm sure she loved him, butlike he was, like he was, she
was arranged for him essentially.
(14:12):
So after his divorce, the Churchof Scientology interviewed,
like obviously they wantedanother Scientologist to be Tom
Cruise's partner, and they wentthrough like a variety of hot
single women that were actressesand Scientologists and they
narrowed it down to an actresscalled so yes, the actress who
(14:36):
was chosen to be his new partnerher name was and so okay, sorry
, he was.
He divorced Nicole Kidman andthen he dated Penelope Cruz and
then, after his breakup withPenelope Cruz that's when he was
he divorced Nicole Kidman andthen he dated Penelope Cruz and
then, after his breakup withPenelope Cruz, that's when he
was like I need a new, I want anew partner, I need a new
partner, find me a new partner.
And that's when Scientologyheld a series of interviews and
(14:57):
auditions, kind of to choose hisnext partner, and they chose a
woman by the name of NazaninBoniari and she was like she met
, like she was dating someoneelse, and then they're like you
need to break up with himbecause you're gonna date
someone else.
And so she did, and she foundout that that someone else's Tom
Cruise, and within like threeweeks, I think, she was already
(15:19):
like moved in and living withhim as his live-in partner.
But there came a point in whichshe embarrassed Tom Cruise
quote unquote and actuallyembarrassed quote, unquote Tom
Cruise by insulting DavidMiscavige who at this point had
taken like L Ron Humbrid haddied.
David Miscavige took over asthe head of Scientology and she
(15:41):
insulted him, according to TomCruise, which left him
embarrassed and so he broke upwith her and then, after he
broke up with her again, he waslike I need a new partner.
And that is when they expandedtheir search for Tom Cruise's
new partner outside ofScientology and they auditioned
several actresses by tellingthem that they were going to,
(16:03):
that they were auditioning for amovie project to be in like.
But this was a ruse.
They were not auditioning for amovie project, they were
auditioning for Tom to be TomCruise's partner.
They did not know this, butanyway, so that's when Katie
Holmes was chosen to be his wife.
Maybe he did love her.
I don't know.
I don't know his true feelingstowards her.
(16:24):
I'm just saying it's a littlesuspicious and my opinion I'm
not sure that he did love her.
I'm like really scared to talkabout Scientology after reading
this book y'all.
So you know, just excuse me,but yes, I do want to say
everything I say is my opinion,based on what I saw in this
documentary and this and readingin the book.
But yes, so yeah, but that Imean that just seems really like
(16:46):
suspicious to me, that it'slike I don't know that I can
believe that he loved me.
I'm sure he grew to love her atone point.
But, like initially it's likeyou don't, like this was someone
chosen by the church for you,like this isn't someone that you
like.
I'm sure he had to give likehis final approval, like after
meeting her officially andeverything, but it's still like
(17:08):
I don't know, I don't know, it'sa, it's a little suspicious.
And then the final chapterreally just focuses on the
prison of belief and the amountof people that.
So Paul Haggis he is a writerand director.
He is most famous or mostwell-known, probably for
directing the Best Picturewinner Crash in 2005.
(17:29):
And yeah, so he talked abouthow he left the church.
He has two daughters and bothof them are part of the LGBTQ
community and the Church ofScientology is very anti-LGBTQ
and it was one of those thingswhere they kept saying things
that would make his daughtersfeel bad about themselves.
(17:51):
And Paul Haggis was like thisisn't right, like my daughters
shouldn't be treated this waybecause of who they love.
And so that's when he exitedthe church and he was harassed.
Anyone who leaves the church isharassed for a really long time
by members.
Like there'll be instances inwhich someone leaves the church
and then they look outside thenext day and there's like a
(18:12):
horde of Scientology membersthere to harass them or try to
get them to come back, try toget them to sign NDAs, all these
things.
So yeah, it's, and there's justdifferent talks of how people
left the church and they hadreally good, they had like
family members that were stillin the church or really really
good friends that were stillpart of the church that once
(18:33):
they left, like those people cutthem out of their lives and so
they kind of felt abandoned,especially because these are
like friends that they love,like family and like actual
family members that are justcutting them out because they're
no longer in the religion.
So the Going Clear documentaryis very, very similar to the
(18:54):
book.
The film is also split intothree parts and it features
interviews from formerScientologists, including Paul
Haggis, which I mentionedalready, mark Rathbun, who was
Scientology's formersecond-in-command, so he was
pretty high up there Mark Rinder, jason Beckey, sylvia Spanky,
(19:14):
taylor Tom DeVocht, sarahGoldberg and Hannah Altrincham
Whitfield.
And the film is also split intothree parts.
So it's a little bit differentthan the book in that the first
in the book it's, as I said,scientology all about
Scientology's backstory,hollywood, which is all about
the growth of Scientology inHollywood, and then the Prison
(19:34):
of Belief, which is kind ofScientology current Scientology
well, current as of 2013.
So it's a little.
I don't think that much haschanged in Scientology within
those years.
I could be wrong, but from whatI've heard or from what I've
noticed, it's pretty much thesame thing.
But from what I've heard orfrom what I've noticed, it's
pretty much the same thing.
But in the film, the firstsection focuses on the former
(19:55):
Scientologist that I named andthey talk about how they joined
Scientology.
The second section is thehistory of Scientology and L Ron
Hubbard, and then the finalpart focuses on the allegations
of abuse and misconduct by itsleadership, particularly David
Miscavige.
(20:16):
David Miscavige has beenaccused of intimidating, beating
, imprisoning and exploiting allthe people that are below him.
And yeah, it's so.
There is a lot of abuse withinthe church.
I think what really frustratesme is how involved the church is
in terms like how far they goto protect their members, even
(20:36):
when their members don't deserveto be protected, and I'm mainly
referring to Danny Masterson,who finally received justice.
He is going to spend I don'tknow how many years in jail for
sexually assaulting women in theearly 2000s, but he again.
He sexually assaulted, Ibelieve three women in the early
2000s and all of them wereintimidated by the Church of
(21:00):
Scientology to keep quiet andnot come forth with these
allegations.
And then, once theseallegations did come forth, they
were intimidated, they wereharassed.
All these things just to indefense of Danny Masterson,
which is what took so long forhim to finally make it to the
justice system.
And I'm just glad that and it'sone of those things that I know
(21:24):
that there was a lot of,unfortunately, with parasocial
relationships, we feel like wereally know these celebrities
and we don't, and we want tothink the best of them and think
that they're not capable ofcommitting these horrible things
.
But I'm not going to get intoall these things that I believe.
But in this case you have toremember that in the best of
(21:44):
times, sexual assault cases arehard to bring to justice.
It's one of those things thatthe sooner you report it, the
sooner you do, the sooner youreport it, the sooner you do,
the sooner you report it, thesooner you can get, the sooner
you report it, the more likelyyou are to have evidence still
on you, and that evidence iswhat brings justice to a lot of
these people.
(22:04):
So, even though some peoplehave gotten away with these
crimes, it doesn't mean thatthey didn't commit it.
It just means that there is nolonger enough evidence in order
to bring them to justice.
Like what really convinces me Imean, I already believed the
victims anyway but what reallyconvinced me that Danny
Masterson did it and that, like,screw the Scientologist's
(22:25):
protection against him, screwall the people that wrote, like,
letters in support of this man?
He committed these crimesbecause in order for him to have
faced justice all these yearslater, there had to have been
some sort of major evidence thatallowed him to face justice.
And this happened more than 20years ago, or I guess it
happened about 20 years by thetime it went to trial and
(22:47):
everything.
After 20 years, there was stillenough evidence for them to be
able to try him.
Like that's yeah, that's sayingsomething.
So just want to throw that outthere.
It is my opinion that hecommitted these crimes and yeah,
so I'm just going to say screwthe Church of Scientology just
for that and all the otherpeople that they have protected
and managed to protect.
So, yeah, it's a very, very wildride and the film.
(23:12):
So again, during these auditingsessions, you are not only
being exposed to your past lives, you're also revealing a lot of
things about yourself.
So this is a lot of personalinformation that the church
manages to get out of youthrough a variety of different
tactics, and what that means isthat they now have a lot of
(23:35):
stuff they can use against youin the form of blackmail.
And the documentary allegesthat John Travolta has been
forced to stay in Scientology infear that secrets from his
personal life will be exposed.
And again, these are secretsfrom his personal life that he
has given, whether willingly orunwillingly, during these
(23:57):
auditing sessions.
And that's how a lot of peoplestay in the church because
they're scared to leave it forfear of these secrets getting
out.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat these secrets are like,
really, really bad, but maybethe person just might not want
this.
So, whether that be, they'vehad an affair and they don't
want to get divorced or anythingreally really worse than that.
(24:20):
So, yeah, this was a wild, wildride and I recommend both.
The documentary is two hourslong, so it's kind of lengthy,
but there's a lot of fascinatinginformation in there.
But kind of like the Our Townsdocumentary, this is more of
like the Cliff Notes version.
If you want a lot more detail,a lot more scandalous, a lot
(24:44):
more jaw-dropping information, Iwould go with the book.
So, that being said, I ratedthe book four stars and I rated
the documentary four stars.
But I do have a winner and thewinner is the book.
I do highly highly recommend thebook.
It is just, it is sofascinating.
I did not want to put this bookdown and just everything that I
(25:07):
learned.
I'm just, I just, I'm just.
I can't believe that thisexists.
And yeah, I mean I.
Yeah, I've never been interestedin joining the Church of
Scientology, but I've alwaysbeen curious about going in
there and finding out and seeingwhat they would tell me.
But I've always been scaredthat once I go in there I'm
(25:29):
going to be kidnapped because westill don't know what happened.
So David Miscavige again, thecurrent head of Scientology his
wife has been missing forseveral years now and no one has
any idea where she is.
Some church members, again, whoare currently in the church,
say that she's fine and thatshe's.
They named the location, but Idon't remember the location.
But we got to take their wordfor it and I'm just saying I'm
(25:50):
not sure that I do so.
That is, ultimately, I'm likescared to step foot because I'm
like I don't know, maybe I'llget kidnapped or something.
So not that the church kidnapspeople, but you know, just, I'm
not going to risk anything bygoing in there.
So, anyway, check out thedocumentary if you want, if
you're curious about Scientologyand learning about it from
(26:13):
ex-members.
This also came out before thebook was published, before Leah
Remini started being reallyoutspoken against the church.
I don't remember exactly whatyear she left the church, but
she's been very outspoken sinceand yeah.
So if you are not a reader,check out the documentary
(26:34):
because it is fascinating.
But if you do want a morein-depth look and, like I said,
it's just so fascinating to readthis and learn all these things
then definitely check out thebook, highly recommend it.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of Books vs Movies.
If you are liking this series,please leave it a rating and a
(26:55):
review, tell all your friendsabout it and help me expand the
family.
Next time I will be discussingthe Haunting of Hill House by
Shirley Jackson and its 1999adaptation, the Haunting.
See you next time.
Welcome to Books vs Movies, the podcast where I set
out to answer the age-oldquestion is the book really
always better than the movie?
I'm Yuvia, an actress and booklover based out of New York City
, and today I will be discussingGoing Clear Scientology
Hollywood and the Prison ofBelief by Lawrence Wright and
its 2015 adaptation Going ClearScientology and the Prison of
(00:25):
Belief.
All right, hi everyone, I havea bit of a doozy for you.
So this one's going to be kindof like Our Towns, in which I'm
comparing a nonfiction book toits adaptation, which is
technically a documentary.
So there's a lot of the sameinformation.
So it's kind of like how do Icompare and contrast the two?
(00:47):
So very much, there isn'treally much to contrast.
Like, the information you findin the documentary is the
information you find in the book.
It kind of just depends on whatyou are interested in and how
deep you want to delve into thetopic.
And boy oh boy was this.
Wow, I am in just disbeliefafter reading this book.
(01:10):
It was absolutely fascinating.
The documentary is just asfascinating.
Highly recommend both.
But wow, this was this.
Yeah, there was.
I just everything I learnedabout Scientology.
I'm just like it's just one ofthose things.
It's just one of those thingsthat's like I, yeah, it's wild,
(01:30):
it's so wild, this religion isso wild, and let's just get into
it Going clear.
Scientology, hollywood and thePrison of Belief by Lawrence
Wright was first published in2013.
This was also a GoodreadsChoice Award nominee in 2013 for
(01:52):
Reader's Favorite Nonfiction,and I can see why this is
absolutely fascinating.
All right, so this book issplit into three parts
Scientology, hollywood and thePrison of Belief and kind of.
The Scientology section isreally focused on L Ron Hubbard
and kind of how he came tocreate this religion.
(02:14):
And then Hollywood focuses onhow it kind of took over
Hollywood and how it managed tosuck in so many celebrities.
And then the Prison of Belieffocuses mainly on Scientology
how it is now under L RonHubbard's successor, david
Miscavige, and just all the taskhe has of preserving the church
(02:37):
in the face of ongoing scandalsand continual legal assaults.
So, yeah, we learn aboutScientology's cosmology, about
the auditing process, about thebridge to total freedom.
We see how the church broughtin celebrities such as Tom
Cruise and John Travolta, whoare probably some of the more
(03:00):
famous faces of Scientology.
There were people interviewedthat have been disconnected from
friends and family by thechurch after they decided to
break away, and there are a lotof firsthand stories in the book
that detail the violence thathas permeated the church.
The 2015 documentary GoingClear Scientology and the Prison
(03:25):
of Belief, directed by AlexGibney, is a documentary that
looks at the inner workings ofthe Church of Scientology.
So, yeah, it's wild, and I'mstill kind of just in disbelief
about a lot of the things that Ilearned while reading this book
.
And I don't even know where tobegin.
(03:45):
I guess I will begin by tellingyou about L Ron Hubbard's name.
So, obviously, l Ron Hubbard is, it's his name, it's his real
name but, like, obviously that'sshortened His birth name is
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard.
So I don't know about you, butthat name sounds like it's
asking to start a religion ofsome sort.
(04:07):
It is my belief I'm not sayingthat this is reality, but it is
my belief that this religion isa cult.
So if anyone is going to starta cult, it's going to be someone
called Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, just saying but yeah, so we
learn a lot about L Ron Hubbard,how he came.
(04:28):
He started off as a sciencefiction writer and from there he
created the religion ofScientology and we learned.
As I said, this book is dividedinto three parts.
The first part really focuseson L Ron Hubbard's origins and
the origins of scientology and,yeah, like the.
So he basically states that weare all phaetons, which is like
(04:50):
a human, we're like we're aliensliving inside human bodies, and
to reach the highest level iswhen we die.
We are turned back into thosealiens, like we have gone clear.
That is the meaning of goingclear.
Going clear is when you likeessentially free your mind and
your body of everything andyou're able to illuminate your
(05:12):
life and see your all your pastlives, everything.
So auditing, the thing that Imentioned is essentially you're
hooked up to an e-meter and thenthe e-meter reads it, and when
you first start off the auditingprocess, the e-meter is going
like crazy because it's catchingup on everything, and so you're
basically taught that theremight be something in your past
(05:36):
life that is so essentially,this is the belief of Dianetics.
Dianetics is the ability to healyourself of any ailment, any
conditions.
So if you are sick, you don'tneed medicine.
If you break a bone, if youhave cancer, you can heal
yourself of cancer.
And if you're not healing, thatis because you are not opening
(05:57):
yourself to going clear.
So how do you go clear?
You are hooked up to thee-reader machine and then let's
say that you broke your arm andit's not healing.
That's because something,there's something in your past
life that is preventing your armfrom currently healing.
So something, there's a pastlife somewhere.
(06:17):
Maybe I'm explaining like this.
It's a very difficult conceptto explain, but it's not a
difficult concept to understand.
So I apologize if I'mexplaining this horribly, but
essentially, like so many peoplestart remembering their past
lives and they see like, oh yeah, this happened to me and that
is what's preventing me.
And like I broke my arm in thesame way and now my past life
(06:40):
isn't allowing my current lifeto heal itself because of the
hurt caused in my past life.
So I choose to let my past lifego and it's like, miraculously,
my arm is healed.
So that's the basic premise ofit.
It's, yeah, it's fascinating,but there was a lot of things in
the Sea Org, which is, I guess,that's what I mean originally.
(07:01):
It got that name because theyliterally lived on sea or on a
big ship Certain members ofScientology that were handpicked
by L Ron Hubbard, and I guessthey kept that name because, as
far as I know, they're not.
There's no one living at seaanymore, but anyway, yeah, so he
, while he's like living outthere, like his health is
seriously deteriorating, he'sgoing blind, there's all these
(07:24):
things, and people that were onthe ship were kind of
questioning, like, why is he notusing Dianetics to heal himself
?
But it's L Ron Hubbard, he'sthe head of the church, so they
don't want to question him toohard, and it's just one of those
things that, like, had theyquestioned him a little bit more
, maybe this Scientologywouldn't have been able to get
as big as it did.
Because they were.
(07:44):
There was a lot of people that,like, were questioning what he
was saying and his teachings,but they weren't pushing too
much against it.
Like there was also he was alsosaying like, oh, I have the
ability to fly over New York,but I'm not gonna do that
because it's gonna freak peopleout too much and and so, like a
lot of his followers were like,well, why don't you just not,
just not to his face?
(08:05):
But they were thinking like,well, why doesn't he just do it?
Because if he does it, a lot ofpeople will be turned to
Scientology, because it's like,look at what Scientology can do
and I have a little bit ofdoubts myself.
So like seeing that will likeclear my doubts.
But again, no one everquestioned him on this, no one
ever pushed him on this, andlike the people closest to him
that heard him say these things,even though they were doubting,
(08:27):
like they kept these feelingsto themselves and didn't share
it with anyone.
So it's just one of thosethings that I wonder, like had
someone had the courage to likecall him out on it, would
Scientology still exist today?
But I don't know, maybe itwould, because it's one of those
things that by the time theystarted living at sea, the
Church of the ScientologyCelebrity Center was already
started in Hollywood.
(08:49):
So who knows, maybe just havingthat such a big distance from
the people at sea and people onland at the Celebrity Center
would have been enough to keepit going.
I don't know, that's just oneof those things that I question.
But yeah, it's just there waslike there's just so much abuse
in the church and it's one ofthose things that there's a lot
of like contradicting reportsand a lot of Scientologists
(09:10):
today obviously say like thisnever happened.
There's a lot of likecontradicting.
Like someone who was inScientology will say something
and then people in still in thereligion today will say, well,
that person's lying, youshouldn't believe anything they
say.
And there's also like theliterature I guess I'm just
going to call it the equivalentof the Bible to Christianity of
(09:31):
Scientology is there's kind oflike conflicting reports about
whether or not it exists.
There's people within thereligion that say that it does
and they've seen it, and thenthere's people that say it
doesn't.
And there's just like a lot ofsecrets in Scientology that they
like to keep to themselves andthey kind of dispute everything
(09:52):
that's kind of presented to them.
So yeah, but there's like againlike a lot of abuse.
Like there was instances inwhich if a child misbehaved,
that was like a big no-no,obviously, like that means they
weren't being trained to startgoing clear, I guess at such a
young age, and so they would belocked up in this really dark
(10:15):
cell in the ship and they wouldstart, they would cry because
it's like this dark, enclosedspace, and they would just cry
and yell and I mean I don't knowhow the parents could just
allow that to happen.
I don't know that there'sanything that any religion that
could convince me that treatingmy child that way is the right
(10:35):
thing to do.
But that's just me.
I don't know that I could do it.
I'd be like, if you're going totreat my child that way, I'm
out.
But that's just to me.
But yeah, just like really wildstories.
And then we get into theHollywood section and we kind of
learn how Scientology was ableto attract a lot of young
celebrities and keep them there.
(10:57):
And there's obviously, like theface of Scientology now, the
celebrity face of Scientologynow is Tom Cruise, and it's one
of those things that it isalleged that the Church of
Scientology is.
What came between him andNicole Kidman.
Like Tom Cruise met NicoleKidman and although he continued
to practice Scientology whilehe was with her, he was kind of
(11:21):
disassociating from it a littlebit.
And so Nicole was, the churchwas desperate to keep Tom Cruise
, to keep this big namecelebrity under their church,
and so they Nicole Kidman wasdeclared an SP, which stands for
suppressive person, andessentially a suppressive person
is someone who's preventing youfrom reaching the highest level
(11:43):
of Scientology, which is like Idon't know, I guess, going
clear.
You can call it.
It's kind of like enlightenment, like once you reach this level
of enlightenment, you know, youknow all about the history of
the Thetans and how to get backto it once you die, and, yeah,
and how to get back to like theEarth ship or whatever, like the
mothership, I should say,whatever, whatever they believe
(12:04):
that was.
I still don't really understandit myself, but it's something
like the whole what happensafter you die.
And once you've gotten clearand you know what happens after
you die, which is like you'renot resurrected, you're just you
go back to your alien life formis what I understood.
But so, yeah, so a suppressiveperson is someone who's
preventing you from reaching thehighest level and a lot of the
(12:26):
times, especially if thesuppressive person is not a
practicing Scientologist, youare expected to cut them out of
your life and a lot of people doso.
Many people have cut SPs out oftheir life because that SP is
ruining their relationship witha religion and with their own
personal self is how they see it.
So she was declared an SP andat first Tom Cruise is kind of
(12:49):
like, resistant to the idea, andthen one day they offer like
again, desperate to keep him.
They call him in for a reallyspecial auditing session.
He goes to this auditingsession.
He's gone for a few days.
After that auditing session hecomes back and completely
blindsides Nicole Kidman and islike we're getting a divorce and
(13:10):
this really caught her offguard.
And so, yeah, I mean they wentthrough the divorce and I mean
it's probably good that NicoleKidman got out of that
relationship, just saying butyeah, yeah, she, yeah, so she
was.
He completely blindsided herafter this auditing session and
he learned some things abouthimself and his marriage.
(13:30):
That was just like I need toend this right here for him and
they wanted someone who wasgonna look good and like look
(13:51):
good by his side and just like,essentially, they arranged his,
his next few partners for him.
So it's like, does he really so?
It's one of those things that'slike, did he really love?
Like Katie Holmes, for example,like I have?
I'm sure she loved him, butlike he was, like he was, she
was arranged for him essentially.
(14:12):
So after his divorce, the Churchof Scientology interviewed,
like obviously they wantedanother Scientologist to be Tom
Cruise's partner, and they wentthrough like a variety of hot
single women that were actressesand Scientologists and they
narrowed it down to an actresscalled so yes, the actress who
(14:36):
was chosen to be his new partnerher name was and so okay, sorry
, he was.
He divorced Nicole Kidman andthen he dated Penelope Cruz and
then, after his breakup withPenelope Cruz that's when he was
he divorced Nicole Kidman andthen he dated Penelope Cruz and
then, after his breakup withPenelope Cruz, that's when he
was like I need a new, I want anew partner, I need a new
partner, find me a new partner.
And that's when Scientologyheld a series of interviews and
(14:57):
auditions, kind of to choose hisnext partner, and they chose a
woman by the name of NazaninBoniari and she was like she met
, like she was dating someoneelse, and then they're like you
need to break up with himbecause you're gonna date
someone else.
And so she did, and she foundout that that someone else's Tom
Cruise, and within like threeweeks, I think, she was already
(15:19):
like moved in and living withhim as his live-in partner.
But there came a point in whichshe embarrassed Tom Cruise
quote unquote and actuallyembarrassed quote, unquote Tom
Cruise by insulting DavidMiscavige who at this point had
taken like L Ron Humbrid haddied.
David Miscavige took over asthe head of Scientology and she
(15:41):
insulted him, according to TomCruise, which left him
embarrassed and so he broke upwith her and then, after he
broke up with her again, he waslike I need a new partner.
And that is when they expandedtheir search for Tom Cruise's
new partner outside ofScientology and they auditioned
several actresses by tellingthem that they were going to,
(16:03):
that they were auditioning for amovie project to be in like.
But this was a ruse.
They were not auditioning for amovie project, they were
auditioning for Tom to be TomCruise's partner.
They did not know this, butanyway, so that's when Katie
Holmes was chosen to be his wife.
Maybe he did love her.
I don't know.
I don't know his true feelingstowards her.
(16:24):
I'm just saying it's a littlesuspicious and my opinion I'm
not sure that he did love her.
I'm like really scared to talkabout Scientology after reading
this book y'all.
So you know, just excuse me,but yes, I do want to say
everything I say is my opinion,based on what I saw in this
documentary and this and readingin the book.
But yes, so yeah, but that Imean that just seems really like
(16:46):
suspicious to me, that it'slike I don't know that I can
believe that he loved me.
I'm sure he grew to love her atone point.
But, like initially it's likeyou don't, like this was someone
chosen by the church for you,like this isn't someone that you
like.
I'm sure he had to give likehis final approval, like after
meeting her officially andeverything, but it's still like
(17:08):
I don't know, I don't know, it'sa, it's a little suspicious.
And then the final chapterreally just focuses on the
prison of belief and the amountof people that.
So Paul Haggis he is a writerand director.
He is most famous or mostwell-known, probably for
directing the Best Picturewinner Crash in 2005.
(17:29):
And yeah, so he talked abouthow he left the church.
He has two daughters and bothof them are part of the LGBTQ
community and the Church ofScientology is very anti-LGBTQ
and it was one of those thingswhere they kept saying things
that would make his daughtersfeel bad about themselves.
(17:51):
And Paul Haggis was like thisisn't right, like my daughters
shouldn't be treated this waybecause of who they love.
And so that's when he exitedthe church and he was harassed.
Anyone who leaves the church isharassed for a really long time
by members.
Like there'll be instances inwhich someone leaves the church
and then they look outside thenext day and there's like a
(18:12):
horde of Scientology membersthere to harass them or try to
get them to come back, try toget them to sign NDAs, all these
things.
So yeah, it's, and there's justdifferent talks of how people
left the church and they hadreally good, they had like
family members that were stillin the church or really really
good friends that were stillpart of the church that once
(18:33):
they left, like those people cutthem out of their lives and so
they kind of felt abandoned,especially because these are
like friends that they love,like family and like actual
family members that are justcutting them out because they're
no longer in the religion.
So the Going Clear documentaryis very, very similar to the
(18:54):
book.
The film is also split intothree parts and it features
interviews from formerScientologists, including Paul
Haggis, which I mentionedalready, mark Rathbun, who was
Scientology's formersecond-in-command, so he was
pretty high up there Mark Rinder, jason Beckey, sylvia Spanky,
(19:14):
taylor Tom DeVocht, sarahGoldberg and Hannah Altrincham
Whitfield.
And the film is also split intothree parts.
So it's a little bit differentthan the book in that the first
in the book it's, as I said,scientology all about
Scientology's backstory,hollywood, which is all about
the growth of Scientology inHollywood, and then the Prison
(19:34):
of Belief, which is kind ofScientology current Scientology
well, current as of 2013.
So it's a little.
I don't think that much haschanged in Scientology within
those years.
I could be wrong, but from whatI've heard or from what I've
noticed, it's pretty much thesame thing.
But from what I've heard orfrom what I've noticed, it's
pretty much the same thing.
But in the film, the firstsection focuses on the former
(19:55):
Scientologist that I named andthey talk about how they joined
Scientology.
The second section is thehistory of Scientology and L Ron
Hubbard, and then the finalpart focuses on the allegations
of abuse and misconduct by itsleadership, particularly David
Miscavige.
(20:16):
David Miscavige has beenaccused of intimidating, beating
, imprisoning and exploiting allthe people that are below him.
And yeah, it's so.
There is a lot of abuse withinthe church.
I think what really frustratesme is how involved the church is
in terms like how far they goto protect their members, even
(20:36):
when their members don't deserveto be protected, and I'm mainly
referring to Danny Masterson,who finally received justice.
He is going to spend I don'tknow how many years in jail for
sexually assaulting women in theearly 2000s, but he again.
He sexually assaulted, Ibelieve three women in the early
2000s and all of them wereintimidated by the Church of
(21:00):
Scientology to keep quiet andnot come forth with these
allegations.
And then, once theseallegations did come forth, they
were intimidated, they wereharassed.
All these things just to indefense of Danny Masterson,
which is what took so long forhim to finally make it to the
justice system.
And I'm just glad that and it'sone of those things that I know
(21:24):
that there was a lot of,unfortunately, with parasocial
relationships, we feel like wereally know these celebrities
and we don't, and we want tothink the best of them and think
that they're not capable ofcommitting these horrible things
.
But I'm not going to get intoall these things that I believe.
But in this case you have toremember that in the best of
(21:44):
times, sexual assault cases arehard to bring to justice.
It's one of those things thatthe sooner you report it, the
sooner you do, the sooner youreport it, the sooner you do,
the sooner you report it, thesooner you can get, the sooner
you report it, the more likelyyou are to have evidence still
on you, and that evidence iswhat brings justice to a lot of
these people.
(22:04):
So, even though some peoplehave gotten away with these
crimes, it doesn't mean thatthey didn't commit it.
It just means that there is nolonger enough evidence in order
to bring them to justice.
Like what really convinces me Imean, I already believed the
victims anyway but what reallyconvinced me that Danny
Masterson did it and that, like,screw the Scientologist's
(22:25):
protection against him, screwall the people that wrote, like,
letters in support of this man?
He committed these crimesbecause in order for him to have
faced justice all these yearslater, there had to have been
some sort of major evidence thatallowed him to face justice.
And this happened more than 20years ago, or I guess it
happened about 20 years by thetime it went to trial and
(22:47):
everything.
After 20 years, there was stillenough evidence for them to be
able to try him.
Like that's yeah, that's sayingsomething.
So just want to throw that outthere.
It is my opinion that hecommitted these crimes and yeah,
so I'm just going to say screwthe Church of Scientology just
for that and all the otherpeople that they have protected
and managed to protect.
So, yeah, it's a very, very wildride and the film.
(23:12):
So again, during these auditingsessions, you are not only
being exposed to your past lives, you're also revealing a lot of
things about yourself.
So this is a lot of personalinformation that the church
manages to get out of youthrough a variety of different
tactics, and what that means isthat they now have a lot of
(23:35):
stuff they can use against youin the form of blackmail.
And the documentary allegesthat John Travolta has been
forced to stay in Scientology infear that secrets from his
personal life will be exposed.
And again, these are secretsfrom his personal life that he
has given, whether willingly orunwillingly, during these
(23:57):
auditing sessions.
And that's how a lot of peoplestay in the church because
they're scared to leave it forfear of these secrets getting
out.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat these secrets are like,
really, really bad, but maybethe person just might not want
this.
So, whether that be, they'vehad an affair and they don't
want to get divorced or anythingreally really worse than that.
(24:20):
So, yeah, this was a wild, wildride and I recommend both.
The documentary is two hourslong, so it's kind of lengthy,
but there's a lot of fascinatinginformation in there.
But kind of like the Our Townsdocumentary, this is more of
like the Cliff Notes version.
If you want a lot more detail,a lot more scandalous, a lot
(24:44):
more jaw-dropping information, Iwould go with the book.
So, that being said, I ratedthe book four stars and I rated
the documentary four stars.
But I do have a winner and thewinner is the book.
I do highly highly recommend thebook.
It is just, it is sofascinating.
I did not want to put this bookdown and just everything that I
(25:07):
learned.
I'm just, I just, I'm just.
I can't believe that thisexists.
And yeah, I mean I.
Yeah, I've never been interestedin joining the Church of
Scientology, but I've alwaysbeen curious about going in
there and finding out and seeingwhat they would tell me.
But I've always been scaredthat once I go in there I'm
(25:29):
going to be kidnapped because westill don't know what happened.
So David Miscavige again, thecurrent head of Scientology his
wife has been missing forseveral years now and no one has
any idea where she is.
Some church members, again, whoare currently in the church,
say that she's fine and thatshe's.
They named the location, but Idon't remember the location.
But we got to take their wordfor it and I'm just saying I'm
(25:50):
not sure that I do so.
That is, ultimately, I'm likescared to step foot because I'm
like I don't know, maybe I'llget kidnapped or something.
So not that the church kidnapspeople, but you know, just, I'm
not going to risk anything bygoing in there.
So, anyway, check out thedocumentary if you want, if
you're curious about Scientologyand learning about it from
(26:13):
ex-members.
This also came out before thebook was published, before Leah
Remini started being reallyoutspoken against the church.
I don't remember exactly whatyear she left the church, but
she's been very outspoken sinceand yeah.
So if you are not a reader,check out the documentary
(26:34):
because it is fascinating.
But if you do want a morein-depth look and, like I said,
it's just so fascinating to readthis and learn all these things
then definitely check out thebook, highly recommend it.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of Books vs Movies.
If you are liking this series,please leave it a rating and a
(26:55):
review, tell all your friendsabout it and help me expand the
family.
Next time I will be discussingthe Haunting of Hill House by
Shirley Jackson and its 1999adaptation, the Haunting.
See you next time.
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