Musicals vs. Movies: Wicked vs. Wicked (Film Adaptation) with Moshe Henderson

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Join us as we welcome Moshe, a multifaceted theatrical professional, who shares his passion for musicals and their cinematic journeys. Prepare to uncover the fascinating world of theater prop management and how adaptations can breathe new life into stage productions, drawing in fresh audiences. We discuss the highs and lows of film adaptations, spotlighting "Dreamgirls" as a success story while "Mean Girls" misses the mark, and consider the unique inspirations behind these adaptations, including the intriguing influence of self-help books.

Our Musicals vs Movies series takes center stage with an in-depth look at "Wicked," tracing its journey from Broadway glory to the eagerly awaited film adaptation. With Moshe's expertise, we dissect scenes, performances, and the creative decisions that bring this beloved story to life on the big screen. Discover the cinematic magic crafted by director Jon M. Chu and stars like Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande, and explore how film adaptations can expand and enhance the original storytelling, offering new perspectives on cherished tales.

Reflecting on the broader landscape of musical adaptations, we delve into the storytelling strengths of different mediums and the timing of when a story is experienced. We discuss recent Oscar-nominated adaptations and eagerly anticipate upcoming releases, all while focusing on themes of otherness and self-acceptance highlighted in "Wicked." As we wrap up, we invite listeners to join in the conversation, share their thoughts, and anticipate future episodes that promise to keep the magic of musical theater alive and thriving.

Connect with Moshe: Instagram

All episodes of the podcast can be found on our website: https://booksvsmovies.buzzsprout.com/share

Connect with me: Instagram | Threads | Bookshop | Goodreads | Blog

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to today's special episode of
Musicals vs Movies.
I have here my friend, moshi,hello.
So Moshi, as I said, he's myfriend, but he's also my
co-worker and he just wears alot of theatrical hats.

(00:20):
He's an actor, he's a director,he just started playwriting,
he's worked as a castingdirector.
Is there anything you don't do?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I don't do props, and I always need a lot of props
for my shows, as I've been told,so it's a skill I should learn.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
All right.
Well, I mean, props are hard, Ifeel.
I mean I helped you with propsfor your first iteration of Egg.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Right.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
And yeah, that was I don't know.
They're fun, but they're kindof hard too.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, Gathering things that are from the right
period or to make them look wornout.
They just add up in expensesand it is I always really do
admire.
Great prop master.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, it's.
It's definitely, um, anecessary skill, but it's a
difficult one, um.
So Moshi listens to my podcast.
And then he was like I wouldwant to be a guest, but I'd
definitely be more interested intalking if it was like I would

(01:27):
want to be a guest, but I'ddefinitely be more interested in
talking if it was like you evertalk about a musical and it's
film adaptation, please bring meon.
And I was like I don't thinkthat's ever going to happen,
just because I don't.
I'm not too familiar withmusicals, but I was like you
know what it's, I like theconcept, so I'm going to let
Moshi kind of take the lead onthis one.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, and there are so many bad musical adaptations
to film.
But you know, they provide alot of access when they're made
into a movie and then someonegoes and sees the original
material and loves it even more.
Certainly been the case for me.
Yes, definitely.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Loves it even more.
Certainly been the case for me.
Yes, definitely.
Let me see which one was it forme.
Do I have one that I is there,one that you can think of off
the?

Speaker 2 (02:15):
top of your head that you were like that.
I thought, that was great.
I think Dreamgirls is one ofthe best adaptations to film as
a musical with really anall-star cast.
And then one I recently sawwhich I'd like to talk about
eventually was Mean Girls, whichwas disappointing because I was
so impressed by the stageadaptation, the musical, and

(02:38):
then they readapted it to a filmagain and it was just.
It needed an audience.
For sure it's, it's that sortof medium.
But I mean, that's aninteresting uh piece because
it's also based on a book, rightuvia it is, but it's.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
It's based on a non-fiction self-help book oh
yeah, it's actually I.
I checked it out when I waslike in middle school or high
school, thinking it was going tobe not a self-help book, and I
was like, what is this?
How did you get Mean Girls outof this?

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, that's interesting.
The play that I've been workingon, my first original play I
stole the title from a self-helpbook myself, velvet Rage.
So I stole the title from aself-help book myself, velvet
Rage and it's not.
It doesn't even.
I mean the themes are similarbut I'd never even read the book
before I took the title, but itdoes.

(03:35):
It does line up very nicely.
So it just shows you thathaving a great source material
can lead to great films, greatmovies, great musicals, to great
films, great movies, greatmusicals.
But the one we'll talk aboutlater today is Wicked, which is
inspired by a number of books byFrank L Baum, right, and was

(03:57):
then made into another book,which we'll go into further.
But I wanted to ask you, nowthat you're, how long have you
been doing these podcasts?

Speaker 1 (04:08):
I just started it this year.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
This year.
So really this is a year inreflection.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
It is.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
I started reading and recording last year, but
officially launched it andcontinued recording it this year
, so yeah, You've been so goodat releasing them regularly, so
good on you for preparing whathas been your favorite episode
that you've recorded so far.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
After we collided, just because it pissed me off so
much like the source material,that's right.
Yeah.
Yes, I've heard you talk aboutit a lot yeah yeah, I think that
one just because of how, justlike the visceral reaction I had
to it was just so negative.
Um, and then I really liked myerasure episode because I got to

(05:01):
record it with two of my bookclub friends.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Um, so that was fun the one that became an american
fiction right yes yes, I did goand watch that after listening
to the pod.
Um it was.
It was a great film, and I'llhave to read the book now too.
Right, that's.
The thing is, a lot of us seethe movies and now you're
inspiring us to go read thebooks.
How often do the books um,books usually land in your favor

(05:28):
over the movie.
Do you have like an odds yet?

Speaker 1 (05:32):
I don't.
I will say I feel like most ofthe episodes I've released this
year, I feel like most of thefilms have won, which is most of
the films have won, which issurprising.
So maybe I haven't read.
I'm bringing in a lot of likebooks that are new to me as well

(05:53):
.
So it's not like books that Ifeel, because I know there's
like one, one book definitelythat I do want to bring to the
the eventually and I don't wantto spoil it, but that one, like
I hate the adaptation so much.
So, yeah, I I maybe it'sbecause I'm I'm bringing in like

(06:14):
books that are new to me andnot so much books that I like,
know and love that have likeadaptations that aren't very
good, but I don't know.
That's kind of how I wanted totackle it for my first year.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
So is it?
Is it film?
Are they typically films you'vewatched first, or are they
typically the books and then yougo and watch the film?

Speaker 1 (06:36):
That's 5050.
Sometimes I read the book firstand I find out that there's an
adaptation.
Or sometimes I'm watching afilm and then, out of nowhere,
in the credits it'll say basedon this book, and I'm just like,
oh well, I guess I got to bringit to the podcast now.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Another one that I listened to your pod and got me
to watch the movie was a mancalled Otto, which I think would
have gone under the radar forme.
I remember it coming out, butnot necessarily being interested
in this story, but afterhearing your podcast was excited
for the journey that was goingto take us on.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, that was that one.
I'd never heard of that filmeither.
It was kind of just on a whimthat Orlando and I watched it
and then discovered that it wasa book and read it and just fell
in love with both.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
So yeah, while you've been doing this series, has
your opinion changed on anymaterial you've been familiar
with prior, like?
Has your opinion changed on abook over time?
I believe so, and then on afilm.
Is there a notable one, um?

Speaker 1 (07:53):
not that I can think of, and I think, like I said,
it's because I've mainly beendoing books that I hadn't read
before or seen before.
For the film Um cause, likeNomadland, that's one that I had
read before and I that onedidn't really change my opinion

(08:14):
because I did prefer the bookfrom the first time I read it.
Uh, I, I feel like I was soexcited to read Lion Maybe
that's when that was kind ofaltered by it.
I had been wanting to watchLion for so long and I think had
I watched it when it came outlike I wanted to, I wouldn't

(08:41):
have hated it.
And not that I hate itnecessarily, I still.
I still like the film.
It's a great film.
But compared to like the book,I don't know I feel like I
definitely would have liked it alot more had I watched it when
I wanted to watch it, as opposedto waiting until now.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, yeah, something about seeing it in a movie
theater right While it's out umgets you sort of swept into it,
and when the award seasons comeby, it's always fun to uh know
what is being nominated.
I mean, I I finally, I thinkcaught up on most of the
austronoms from last year justsaw anatomy of a fall um past

(09:24):
lives, um I had, I had seen umthe one with emma in it.
Uh, poor things.
Um, I was really excited aboutthat.
But and that was also theseason of american fiction, so
it is nice to like figure outwhat what stories are like
intriguing people right now.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
And they were quite a diverse range of stories in
that season.
One of there's there is I thinkthere is Oscar buzz around
Wicked coming up.
Speaking of films, have youseen any films this this year
that you think will be nominatedfor Oscars?

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I've really only heard Oscar buzz around Wicked.
And then I know that the GoldenGlobe nominations came out,
like a few weeks ago, and thoseare pretty good indicators of
what's going to be nominated foran Oscar.
But I think Nora maybe ago, andthose are pretty good

(10:36):
indicators of what's going to benominated for an oscar.
But I think an aura maybe mightbe nominated, um, but no,
honestly I don't know what'sgoing on with like films this
season.
Usually I have a pretty goodsense of like, oh, that's
definitely going to getnominated and I don't know, I'm
not feeling it this time around,except for Wicked.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah Well, it's been a long time in the making, for
sure.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
All righty.
And then have you.
Maybe you haven't even coveredthis yet and maybe you don't
want to give it away, but what'syour all time favorite
adaptation of a movie or of abook to a movie or vice versa?

Speaker 1 (11:06):
if that happens, that does happen it does happen, but
I I haven't read too many booksthat are adapted from films, so
I don't know.
But off the top of my head,since I did do this episode this
year, I feel like a monstercalls.
I thought that was just like areally great adaptation of the

(11:29):
source material.
Um, and absolutely yeah, Ithink that's.
That's probably the one that'smost fresh in my mind, that I'm
like that was a really goodadaptation what was the?

Speaker 2 (11:43):
what was the premise of A Monster Calls?

Speaker 1 (11:47):
I'm pretty sure I've listened to this one.
It's the one where the maincharacter, his mom, is dying of
presumably cancer and a monstercomes to visit him and tells him
stories, and the stories arekind of analogies to help him
prepare for the moment hismother passes.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
That sounds incredible.
I think I did listen to thisone and I'll have to see it for
sure and then read it.
I I've been trying to read umscripts, primarily because it
was always on my checklist.
You know, as an actor, theyalways tell you read scripts.
As a playwright, read scripts.
So I've mostly stayed in thatum form of books.

(12:30):
Um, but did, uh, you met your.
You surpassed your reading goalon goodreads this year.
Right, how?

Speaker 1 (12:38):
many did you have that?
I've read 67 and my goal was 50.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Nice, that's double my goal.
My goal was 30.
And to make it I read somethings twice for class and then
others were like a five pagescript.
I was like that counts.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
That does count, and you reached your goal.
That's good.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
I did, I did.
Are there any?
Well, do you have any favoritebooks that you read this year
that maybe haven't been broughtinto the podcast yet or haven't
been adapted into film?

Speaker 1 (13:16):
No, not that I can.
I think most of the ones I readhave been adapted into film,
and there isn't really any thatI'm like dying to see adapted oh
, a lackluster season of bookswell, I wouldn't say it's
lackluster.
I did read a lot of good books,but there isn't any that I was
like.
This needs to be adapted yeah,I don't know I.

(13:41):
I kind of like I love readingthe books and watching their
adaptation, but I don't know.
I kind of like I love readingthe books and watching their
adaptation, but I don't mind ifbooks just stay books sometimes.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Do you think generally that plays or movies
are stronger if they have sourcematerial like a book?

Speaker 1 (14:10):
material like a book, not necessarily because I I've
seen, like some of the the booksthat I've read this year, I'm
just like, why would you want toadapt it?
This is not a very interestingpremise, so, like in that case,
it's like I'd much rather takean original idea that's exciting
and new over something that'slike.
This book has fans, I guess, solet's adapt it.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean writing for filmespecially is such a different
style, like how you're tellingstories visually and without
dialogue, and then when you'recomparing plays to uh, to movies
, it's about the dialogueprimarily, and if you're
comparing plays to musicals, andit's really about the songs and

(14:50):
the inner monologues.
So, yeah, I can hear you wherewriting from the medium
strengthens the material ratherthan necessarily having a 300
pages of a book to write fromCause, then you have to be
really selective and you know,if that writer isn't necessarily
involved in the adaptation,maybe you're not being as true

(15:12):
to the material as what they hadto say.
Do you agree?

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, definitely.
I definitely think that if thewriter is still alive, you
should they should have somesort of say in how they want
this adapted, as opposed to justputting them onto the sidelines
and not letting them have anysort of say.

(15:38):
Because, yeah, there's like Italked about knots and crosses
and the author, like she, wasvery much aware that they were
going to have to make quite afew changes to bring that to
life, but she was consulted onthe world and the changes and

(16:01):
making sure that she was okaywith the changes and the changes
and making sure that she wasokay with the changes, and I
thought that led to a verystrong adaptation, despite all
the changes they included.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
I have to say the adaptation of Into the Woods
into a Disney movie, even withSondheim's approval, very
disappointed with.
I mean spoiler alert.
But Rapununzel must die, shehas to die and even though it
was given sonheim's blessing forher to just sort of run off
into the distance with theprince, I think a lot of the,

(16:34):
the irony and the, the darknessof into the woods is lost in the
disney film, unfortunately.
I mean people who went to seethat didn't even know it was a
musical.
So false advertising I guess,even though it said based on the
Broadway winning musical.
But yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
I mean, I guess it's hard because the book that I
want to bring on, that just likeboils my blood because I just
hate the adaptation so so muchlike boils my blood because I
just hate the adaptation so somuch.
Um, the author also gave herapproval, her blessing for the
changes, and I, yeah, and it'sstill a horrible adaptation.

(17:16):
So I think they should, I feellike they should consult the um,
the authors or the playwrightsor whoever, if they're still
alive, um, and that person mightgive their approval.
And yeah, it doesn'tnecessarily mean it'll be
successful, but I think it helpsyeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
And then, um, if you could adapt any book into a
movie, which one would youchoose?

Speaker 1 (17:47):
I love Vicious.
I think that's my favorite book.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
I talk about it all the time.
What's the premise of Vicious?

Speaker 1 (17:57):
That one it's about.
So the main characters, victorand Eli.
They discover that if you havea near-death experience, you
become an eo or an extraordinary, which is kind of a superhero
in a sense.
Like you gain the powers of thelast thing you felt before you

(18:18):
died.
So you do have to die, at least, like I said, near-death
experience you die, but then youyou come, have to die, at least
, like I said, near-deathexperience you die, but then you
come back to life.
So, for example, the last thingVictor feels before he dies is
he just wants the pain to stop.

(18:38):
And when he resurrects, orwhatever you want to call it, he
has the ability to controlpeople's pain.
So he can either take it awayor he can amplify it and
essentially torture someone todeath just by making them feel
pain.
So I think that would be really, really cool to see.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, absolutely as a movie.
Do you think it'd be a greatplay or musical?
probably not because, there's alot of uh you can do a lot now
with with the new technology fortheater, but I think there's
some things that's just so mucheasier to do it on film where

(19:24):
you can use cpi or somethingthat, really, even though
theater requires a lot ofimagination and that's part of
what is fun about theater ishaving it before you um, as
we'll talk about, I think, inthe wicked review, is that when
you get to like actually buildthat world and do it so
beautifully and and make it lookreal, that's, that's something,

(19:48):
um, that I think has alwaysexcited people about movies.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
All right.
Well, do you have anything elseyou'd like to share about your
year end review of of recordingum books versus movies?

Speaker 1 (20:06):
no, just because I do have some end of year bonus
episodes planned.
So stick around for my top 10uh, favorite books.
Top 10 least favorite books,and then favorite films least
favorite films.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So that's coming at you.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
All right.
Well, I'll see you real soon.
And we'll get to talking about.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Wicked the phenomenon , yeah, so, like the reason I, I
I was very intrigued by, like,I would love to talk about
musicals versus movies, but I'mjust not, I'm, I'm not as
familiar with musicals at all.
I didn't, like I grew up withDisney films, obviously, and I

(20:54):
grew up with, like, Grease mymom loved Grease, um, but
otherwise, like, I was not oneof those musical theater
obsessed, stereotypical theaterkids.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, they're awful.
But, if you're watching thisvideo on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
if you look behind Moshi you'll see all his show
posters, so they're blurred out.
You can still see like theoutline of Hamilton.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, definitely Hamilton's there Fun.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Home.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Is that Cher back there?
It it's share show which I wasreally excited about and I did
see twice.
It was fun.
You know it's a great, greatqueer piece.
You know all the costumes andand uh, all those iconic songs.
Um, yeah, I also have fiddler.
Back there here lies loveoklahoma, girl from north
country, um, illinois.

(21:49):
And uh, fiddler on the roof,sweeney todd.
And here we are and come fromaway when it was in seattle
tryout.
So I'm a big musical theaterqueen yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
So that that's why I was like that's such great
concept, so I don't want to letit go to waste, but it's like I
definitely need someone who'smore of an expert than I am.
So I definitely want to recordthese episodes with you, but
you're definitely going to takethe lead in the reins Because
even like Wicked, which I'veseen twice, I cannot tell you

(22:24):
what the changes were.
Obviously there was changesbecause they made the part one
which is essentially the firsthalf of the musical, as long as
the musical itself.
So obviously there was changes,things that were added.
I think only Defying GravityI'll be able to assist with in
terms of like the changes, buteverything else, I'm I'm still

(22:47):
like there was changes.
What are they?
I don't know.
So it's like I, I want, I waslike I, I told Moshi, I was like
I want to bring your idea tolife and I think we can do, like
either monthly or bimonthly orwhenever we have time, monthly

(23:08):
bonus episodes of musicalsversus movies, which is why
Moshi's here today.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
So I'm going to lead it with the battle cry, right.
You just lost 10 followersthere.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
No, we didn't.
You know that there's a musicaltheater geek out there that did
the battle cry with you.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Oh, they totally did it.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yes, they're out in the streets of New York we were
up in the mountains of or thehills of Inwood Hill Park and
someone down below by the waterwas doing the battle cry and I

(23:52):
was like they just watchedWicked.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
I know they just watched Wicked yeah, it must be
great, a great, uh, what's theword?
The sound must have bouncedeverywhere, oh yeah yeah, yeah,
your power there, all right.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Well, let's end this section what's the word?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
The sound was bounced everywhere.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,definitely your power there.
All right?
Well, let's end this section ofthe podcast and record in a
little bit.
I'm Moshi Henderson, startingwith musicals versus movies.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yay, and I'm Yuvia.
You know me, I'm your, yourregular host.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
And we'll see you in a sec.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, hello, and welcome to today's special
episode of Musicals vs Movies.
I'm Yuvia, an actress and booklover based out of New York City
.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
And I'm Moshi Henderson, an actor, aspiring
playwright and all-aroundtheater nerd.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
And today we're going to be talking about Wicked part
one.
Ooh-ah, Love it.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Gotta give that battle cry.
And all the different greatversions of that battle cry have
been done, which Cynthiaknocked it out of the park for
this movie.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
You agree.
I do so.
This musical first came out inOctober 30th 2003, with music by
Stephen Schwartz and a book byWinnie Halsman.
It's based on Gregory McGuire's1995 novel Wicked, the Life and
Times of the Wicked Witch ofthe West.
When it was on Broadway it gottony winning performances by

(25:27):
indina menzel and kristinchenoweth.
Um, and now we have this moviethat has been long awaited,
almost more than 20 years afterits original premiere, directed
by john m chu, who also directedcrazy rich asians in the
heights, and um the Step it Upmovies, if I recall.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, he's all about dance and musical theater.
Love it.
So I have the description ofthe original Broadway play here.
Yuvia, do you want to read thatone?

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Long before Dorothy arrived in Oz, there was another
story.
Long before Dorothy arrived inOz, there was another story.
Wicked explores the untold taleof the Witches of Oz.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
How a misunderstood green-skinned girl named Elphaba
and a popular blonde girl namedGlinda became unlikely friends
at Chiz University.
And how Elphaba eventuallybecame known as the Wicked Witch
of the West.
And then the movie Elphaba, amisunderstood young woman
because of her green skin, andGalinda, a popular girl, becomes
friends at Shiz University inthe land of Oz After an
encounter with the wonderfulWizard of Oz.
Their friendship reaches acrossroads.
So this is part one, and wejust got the recent announcement

(26:42):
of part two, wicked for Good.
That will come out in anotheryear.
So this is the perfect firstmusicals versus movies podcast
to do, because we'll get to dopart two in a year and it just,
I mean again, long awaited.
So let's start from thebeginning, shall we?
So the first song no One Mournsthe Wicked.

(27:06):
Did you hear when the Queen ofEngland, queen Elizabeth II,
passed away?
They had this announcement atthe top of the show.
It's like we just want to payour respects to the royal family
and acknowledge how great shewas, and then the first thing
that comes out of the musical isgood news she's dead.

(27:30):
I just can you believe that.
It's so cringeworthy, but thatis how the musical starts.
Um so Glinda, the good witch ofthe uh the good witch announces
to the citizens of Oz thatElphaba, the green skinned witch
of the West, is dead.
What I love about the moviethat's expanded upon is you have

(27:52):
this gorgeous rainbow fieldthat apparently they planted
what nine million tulips tocreate this setting.
So what's exciting about thisfilm adaptation is you get to
see more of the land of Oz.
You also have the announcementfrom Glinda at this point in the
play that the Elphaba, theWicked Witch of the West, was

(28:16):
killed by a little girl whothrew a bucket of water on her.
So I love about the movie thatit starts this really dramatic
tone with that beautiful,beautiful score and also showing
the witch's hat mounted in hercastle, and you have the flying
monkeys, of course.
One thing I do love about thisfilm is that you get to use CGI

(28:40):
right, because in the Broadwayshow it's a lot of acrobats and
in this one they brought backfirst of all their blue, just
like in the movie the Wizard ofOz, which came out in 1939, I
believe, yep, with Judy Garland.
And then what is really lovelyabout the film too, is that you

(29:07):
get all these great close-ups ofAriana Grande and you can see
just sort of you can sort oftell behind her eyes that
there's something reallyupsetting as they burn this
wooden effigy of the WickedWitch.
So I think this adaptation fromthe stage show, which doesn't

(29:30):
have this effigy they burn, um,really sets an epic dramatic
tone.
And and another little niceeaster egg from this is they, uh
, when the chimes are going thebells, it's a reference to ding
dong the witch is dead, which isa song from the original
musical uh movie in 1939.

(29:50):
Um, is there anything you wantto hit on for this first opening
number?

Speaker 1 (29:56):
yeah, the um.
I did find this other easteregg, which is that, um, glinda
is back to the pink gown becausewhen it opened on broadway they
went with the blue gown,because I think at the time
there was still like copyrightissues so they had to put glinda
in a blue gown.

(30:17):
But those copyright issue Iguess it's I don't know if it's
public domain now um, I don'tremember exactly.
But now they're able to go backto the original pink gown that
glinda wears in the originalwizard of oz film and she stays
in pink the entire movie.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
It really is so brandable, brandable.
You have green and pinkeverywhere.
Everyone is jumping in on thislike phenomenon.
This marketing, this greatmarketing.
Um, I also think, um, you, uh.
What I do love in the movie too, is they have the bubble.
Right, you have the bubble onbroadway.
Um, bring her down, but they.

(30:56):
I love the moment where thebubble goes back up around her
and she's about to leave andthen says, well, uh, tell us,
you know, didn't you know thewitch or something, and she's
like I can't hear you what.
And then she has to pop thebubble again.
I love that moment and I thinkAriana just has such a great
sense of timing and comedy forthe stage.
I mean, kristen Chenoweth wasalways so bubbly in the role and

(31:19):
I think a lot of her isms havecontinued through the role, but
I do think Ariana has broughtherself to it and she's been
campaigning for it for what?
Over 10 years, since she saw itas a kid.
Yeah, she came up regularly toget in this movie.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, and I'm glad she got it.
I will say I know there'ssomeone else that was
campaigning very, very, veryhard for the role of Elphaba and
I'm glad she didn't get it, andI'm talking about Lea Michele
oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Well, maybe if they do a funny girl movie adaptation
again.
She got her funny girl onBroadway, didn't she?
she did, but she was rumored tobe Elphaba for the longest time,
and I know, she really wantedit and right now too, there's
been sort of a resurgent of thewicked glee versions, apparently

(32:10):
on tiktok.
Um, I mean again, this is, thisis the moment, this is the time
to do wicked um, so um.
Also another nugget in thisopening scene is the melody of
over the rainbow.
Is um featured in this overture?

(32:31):
Um, it's also somewhere overthe rainbow is sort of the
antithesis, um, or defyinggravity is the antithesis to
somewhere over the rainbow.
Referencing that melody, whichwe'll get to later, but again,
just such a rich source ofmaterial to come from from the
original Frank L Baum books backin the early 1900s, and he

(32:53):
wrote over 14 books and thisrecent book in 1995.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
So from Really really quick.
I think we're switching thefrank and the l.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I think it's l frank bomb that's right because it's
exactly alpha is that's wherethe name comes from.
Is l frank bomb?
yes nice, you got that one inthere.
Um so um, for the next part ofthe musical, the stage version,
we go back in time.

(33:28):
Young Elphaba and herwheelchair-bound sister Nessa
Rose daughters of the governorof Munchkin land arrive at Shiz
University.
Um, elphaba and Glinda clashimmediately when Elphaba is
invited to join headmistressMadame Morble's sorcery class
and Glinda is not.
So let's go over that from themovie first.

(33:50):
What I love about the movie isyou have sort of this is it
Venice that has all those riversthat go through the city and
you get to establish shiz thatway.
In the original Broadwayproduction there's a lot of
gears and mechanics to sort ofrepresent um, this, this, uh,
location.
But in the, in this movie, ofcourse, you get to build this

(34:13):
world even more, um, includingthe animals.
I think there's like flamingosthat fly in the opening shot
where it says wicked, part one,which is also in reference to
the original movie with the samefont.
I just love that as much as youcan do to reference this
original source material.
One thing I did want to say tooabout the universal logo that

(34:34):
also references the MGM movie,but if you look deep inside you
can see the tornado spinningaround.
I believe in the globe, so it's.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
Oh really, wow, Okay.
So now I got to watch it againto look for that um, so um, one
more thing they also elaborateon.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
First of all, I thought the way they integrated
dear old shiz into the moviefelt very, uh, very engaging.
I think it's typically used inthe musical, if I recall
correctly, as sort of atransition song as the set comes
up, but this one we see Galindacome into shiz with her parents

(35:17):
, which I believe her mother inthat is one of the actresses who
also played Galinda on Broadwayand then we get also introduced
to these two new charactersthat I believe are from the book
played by Bowen Yang and Iforget the name of the other
young lady he's with, butthey're for the roles Fanny and

(35:38):
Shenshen and they just add thesegreat comedic like improv
moments.
I think Bowen Yang really, withhis partner, has just made it
so entertaining.
I mean, they're practically theMean Girls of Shiz with Glinda.
So as we, after we come into,after we are introduced to the

(36:04):
song Dear Old shiz, we have uh,cynthia and revo make her
appearance, um and uh, she, shehas that, I.
There there's a moment whereglinda says you're green, and
she looks down at the ground andacts and she's like I am, which
has become sort of this othertiktok phenomenon.

(36:25):
It's just so well done.
I think I believe it's in theoriginal play.
But I love that.
She says, first of all, Ididn't like eat grass or
something growing up.
I just love that, um, or the,all the assumptions and her
having dealt with all her lifethat she's not, you know, sad
about it, which which is she'sjust, you know, she's like she.
This is my life.

(36:46):
But that takes me back toanother part of the film that is
not in the musical that isfeatured in.
No one mourns for the wicked is.
We get to see Elphaba be bornthat is part of the movie like
her mother, with this salesmandrinking some green elixir.

(37:08):
That is what makes her green,um.
But they expand upon that inthe movie to have a young alpha
bow with uh baby nessa rosebeing bullied by the kids and
you see her first come into herpower, um, where.
And she also talks to uh nessaRose about the wonderful Wizard
of Oz and this little pop-up bug.

(37:30):
This and her being taken careof by a bear nanny really
establishes later why Elphabahas such an affinity towards the
proper treatment of animals.
I love that addition.
I thought it really helped usunderstand who she is and why

(37:50):
she eventually does what shedoes.
Do you have anything else toadd on that?

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, so I was reading about the scene where
the mom and Elphaba's father gettogether and I read the book.
I've forgotten it by now becausethis was years and years ago.
But apparently in the book,like, it's implied that their

(38:25):
sexual relationship is notentirely consensual and there's
a little little Easter egg ofthat in the film, in which she
passes out.
You see him pour something inher drink and she passes out.
She passes out.

(38:58):
You see him pour something inher drink and she passes out,
but it's filmed in a way inwhich it's like, oh, I don't
think he's drugging her, so he'slike taking advantage of her,
but it's not overly triggeringor anything.
It's, it's like it's in there,but it's subtly done, um, which
I yeah, I thought that was likeI, I never, I I forgot about
that detail in the book, um, andso I thought that was a smart
way to incorporate it withoutbeing overly, um, exploitative,
I guess yeah, and it, and youcan really do that in film, on

(39:21):
the stage version, you know theyhave to sort of like put the
glass up so you see it.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
You know like they're to make it, to make it visible
to the audience, and in the filmyou get to have a lot of these
subtleties and hinted things.
Um, and we also know too, hermother does die, uh, as we find
out later in the popularsequence of um drinking.
What was it?
It was some sort of flower.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Um, that uh is it the poppies?

Speaker 2 (39:49):
no right it's not poppies, it's like milk, milk,
some sort of milk flour, I think, um.
But her father, the mayor ofmunchkin land, makes his wife
drink it, um, so that they won'thave a second daughter who is
um other right, yeah, he's green.
um, and because of that, um,nessa ends up wheelchair bound

(40:11):
because she was delivered tooearly.
Um.
So there, I I'm not entirelysure if that's in the musical
version, um, but I do love thatyou that's really present in the
film.
You can understand again herupbringing and why she does what
she does, and and also theguilt she has personally around
her sister, nessa rose.
Um.

(40:32):
So, um, now, as we've talked alittle bit about her
relationship with Nessa, um,when um in the uh in the movie,
what happens is uh, it's hername, it's, it's Kiala settle,
am I saying that correctly?
Who was in the greatest showman?
She gets a nice, a nice uhcameo in this um film.

(40:55):
She, uh, she takes thewheelchair, nessa's wheelchair,
and is like forcing her to gowhere Nessa doesn't want to go,
because Nessa has her ownadvocacy and can get around by
herself and Elphaba says stop,let her do it, and because I
forget the name of Keala'scharacter, but because she

(41:16):
doesn't listen.
That's when her powers come toform and Nessa is thrown in the
air with her wheelchair and whathappens is one of the benches
that are in the court is slammedagainst this emblem on the wall
that shows like the wonderfulWizard of Oz, and what appears
underneath it is a bunch ofanimals who are supposed to be

(41:40):
the leaders of this school.
So that's a nice detail.
That's not in the originalstage production of erasure, of
where the school was establishedand who brought it about.
So there's a nice little Easteregg right there.
And then in this, this film, wealso have uh michelle yo um, who

(42:06):
is madame morbel, and it's,it's, it's great.
Have you seen charlie rap?
Uh ralph talk with uh ummichelle?
Uh, she's like you gotta lovethis character because she, she
says, not you, you, many yearsI've waited for a talent like
yours to appear.
Just how bold and brassy thischaracter is.
Um, so, uh, michelle um noticesher powers and and to not worry

(42:32):
anybody, to not make um make uhnessa rose and uh, elphaba
outcast says that it was her whodid, who did this, when
everyone's scared of Elphababecause they thought the powers
came from her, which it did.
So madam Morville takes all andinvites Elphaba, who originally

(42:56):
was not enrolled here.
Her sister was to be personallytrained by her and be her only
student, which makes Galindavery jealous, because Galinda's
here to learn magic, unlikeanyone else who hasn't been able
to do it, besides MadameMorrible.
Yeah, so there, we haveestablished this rivalry between

(43:21):
the two of them and this iswhat leads to the song the
Wizard and I.
So Elphaba, excited andsurprised to discover she might
have a talent for magic,imagines what it would be like
to meet the wizard who MadameWarble tells her about, and this
song is one of the best I wantsongs.

(43:44):
It's rather on stage, it'srather it's sort of a park and
bark song, but in the film whatI love is that Elphaba she's
walking through the universityand she sees sort of the

(44:04):
reflection of everyone cheeringfor her, and then she walks
outside the university and intothis field oh, you got to love a
running through a field moment.
And she starts singing about thewizard and she gets to the
cliff and just lets out her biglast note over this desert land,
which I do believe is a wink tosomething we're going to see in
part two.
I do actually believe that'sthe West.

(44:25):
I'm pretty sure I saw a maprepresented in the film of that
area, and what will later happenin this movie, as in one of the
new songs, is you see sort ofum creatures that look like the
same, uh, like sand people orsomething, if that's a an okay

(44:46):
term to use um, that rep thatlooks similar to that desert um.
So I think we're going to getmore of a like a background
story, even in the second part,to like the people before I
think asma who oz is actuallyafter.
Maybe that'll come into parttwo of Wicked, since they're
going to make it anotherthree-hour movie.
But yes, that song wasincredible, a credible rendition

(45:12):
done by Cynthia.
Do you have anything you wantto add onto the sequence of
events?

Speaker 1 (45:20):
The only thing I can think about is that she belts
out her last note underneath therainbow, which is a nod to
that's right.
The rainbow from the Wizard ofOz the movie.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
There's even the rainbow at the very beginning of
the play or of the musical,when they're going over that
gorgeous waterfall.
Again, that's the magic of filmis like.
Like this fantasy land, youreally get to build it.
Yes, who doesn't love a rainbow?
So much queer coding in this,alrighty.

(45:54):
So let's see here what's next.
Let's see here what's next um.
I do want to say what is niceabout um, about the film too, is
that I feel like the presenceof the father, uh, the mayor of
munchkin land, is establishedmore that he, really, you can
tell when he drops off um, um,nessa rose and umphaba.

(46:20):
He tells her to go with her,even though Nessa Rose, uh, has
asked to like start this journeyalone.
And you can really see thesisterly love between the two of
them that Elphaba really hasbeen an advocate for her sister,
um.
But her father, who has suchguilt and what am I reading here

(46:41):
?
So, apparently, in the bookthat this is based on, he is
called Frexpar the Godly.
He's a very religious ministerwho constantly goes on missions
to spread his gospel.
He isn't rich, powerful or eventaken seriously by anyone.

(47:03):
Elphaba does seem to love herfather in the novel, but she
also recognizes that his faithin this unseen God doesn't
really serve him or his familyat all.
Well, that's quite a divergencefrom the book.
But what I do have to say againis that the film really
establishes her upbringing andwhy she does the way she does

(47:26):
and I suppose some sort ofsibling rivalry between the two.
Do you believe there's anysibling rivalry?
I mean, I think because of theattention her father gives her,
certainly, but she sort of dealtwith that her entire life.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, gives her certainly, but she
sort of dealt with that herentire life.
Yeah, yeah, I, I mean, I don'tknow, I don't get this sense
that there's too much siblingrivalry.
Um, I mean, I'm sure there is.
I think that's unavoidable whenyou have siblings, but I, I,
yeah, I don't feel like that's.
I feel like Elphaba definitelyputs any sibling rivalry aside.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Yeah, it's more looking for a parental figure or
some sort of recognition of whoshe is, and she gets that from
Madame Morville, who comes in asa mother.
Okay, so let's look at thisnext section.
Who comes in as a mother?
Okay, so let's look at thisnext section.
This is from the musicalversion.
The students settle into theirroutine at Chiz.

(48:30):
Roommates Elphaba and Glindaloathe each other, which brings
us into what is this feeling?
This has become a like TikTokdance um and apparently this is
the same choreographer, um, whodid teen beach movie.
So it definitely has sort oflike even those high school
musical vibes, like when they'rein the um in the movie, when

(48:52):
they're in the cafeteria likewith their forks, eating nothing
, you know, it's almost likestick to the status quo from
musical or from high schoolmusical.
Yes, I do love that.
You get to see more of liketheir rivalry in school, like
you get a time passes and yousee them like what is the term?
They're like in a combat classwith each other.

(49:14):
And still at the end we getthat iconic boo in there there
which feels like it must havecome from a rehearsal process.
I don't know how intentionallythat must have been written into
the musical, but it stuck withit, um, but it's just such a
great sequence and such a fundance to see.
Do you have anything to add on?

Speaker 1 (49:37):
no, I, I.
I never realized the song wascalled.
What is this feeling, though?

Speaker 2 (49:43):
I know everyone thinks it's loathing yeah, right
yeah, um, okay.
so, um, after, what is thisfeeling?
We glinda and the otherstudents pay attention to their
history.
Professor dr dillamon a talkinggoat, only elphaba is troubled
by his warning that throughoutoz, talking animals are losing.
And the other students payattention to their history.
Professor Dr Dillamon a talkinggoat, only Elphaba is troubled
by his warning that throughoutOz, talking animals are losing

(50:06):
their ability to speak.
And this is the song SomethingBad.
So in the movie this is voicedby Peter Dinklage, who I do not
know why they keep giving himmusicals to sing in.
I like him, but I saw him inSerrano off Broadway and then
the movie adaptation and theyauto tuned him a bit for the

(50:26):
movie.
But he is a great actor, right,and I mean something bad was
never a bop, but I do like that.
You know we get to see theanimals.
They're not like humanoidanimals, like they are on the
Broadway stage.
I mean you have to and theBroadway production.

(50:48):
They didn't use puppets likeyou would in any Disney musical,
necessarily, but that he's onall four legs and that this
universe, his room, is designedfor him.
You know like he kicks thingswith his back hooves and he
gives them a lesson about, um,all the animals that used to
teach or work there, you know,who were treated as equals back

(51:09):
then.
Um, and then what's really?
I think it's at this point, um,where he brings down the uh,
the chalkboard and it says uh,what does it say about animals?

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Like animals shouldn't be seen and not heard.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
That's right, which is in no way subtle.
Certainly we're picking up onthe parallels between
discrimination against peoplewho are other.
And what else is nice too inthis section is they talk a bit
about the history of Oz and whythere are fewer animals in the

(51:46):
school, because I believe theysay there was a drought, a great
drought, that then peopleneeded someone to blame.
So they blamed the animals andexcommunicated them.
So and what I've heard tooabout this is that we know that
Madame Morble or we'll find outcontrols the weather, so it can

(52:07):
be assumed that she's the onewho caused this trap and created
an enemy which we'll find outabout later with the wonderful
Wizard of Oz Anything to tag inhere with.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Nope, let's keep trekking along.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Okay, so something bad.
They expand upon it and theyhave all the other animals
gather and Elphaba.
They get to do sort of a puppetshow in the movie which helps
with seeing what's happeningoutside.
So the students settle intotheir routine at Chiz's
roommates.
Oh, I already read that.
Now Fiero, a winky prince,arrives at Chiz and invites

(52:52):
Glinda to a dance dancingthrough life.
So this is where we get to haveJonathan Bailey enter the scene
.
Originally this role was playedby Norbert Leo Butz.
Jonathan Bailey, of course, isfamous from Bridgerton.
He also was in the StephenSondheim musical company in the

(53:12):
queer version singing what is itcalled?
It's a song that it's what MattDoyle later played on Broadway.
I love this song but I'll moveon.
Um, but, uh, he, he comes inand I love that we get to bring
his horse.
So apparently this horse thathe rides in on is the same horse

(53:32):
he had in bridgerton, um, sothat it's nice that he always
has that guest with him.
I love how they they first meet.
I think Jonathan Bailey offers avery nice subtle charm.
I mean, this is also for camera, so it's different.
Right when on stage it can bevery superficial and very

(53:54):
off-putting.
Here it's very cute and theyhave this scene dancing through
life in the library, this newlibrary, which they do really
well.
They establish it in one of thenewspapers.
They say new library and theannouncement for winky prince
coming um, and they've createdthis contraption apparently for

(54:15):
the movie.
They call it the tornadoactually, where all those books
are spinning around um, and itwas just gorgeous seeing them,
do I mean?
And that's all real, they'reall you know, it's, they're all
dancing with these thingsspinning um, and what's fun
about the movement of this dancetoo is that you get a lot of
hints, sort of going to theposture of the scarecrow, which

(54:37):
we'll find out more about inpart two.
Um, with fiero.
Um, you also have uh, uh.
What's new about this uh, fierotoo, is that it's a lot more
open to uh, to him being sort ofbaby queer, just not
necessarily being there only forthe women.

(54:59):
Like everybody in thisuniversity, there's a lot of,
like, gender neutral clothing,right, people express themselves
differently, they havedifferent hairstyles that
wouldn't necessarily identifywith a specific sex.
So that's another cool littledevelopment of this musical
since it's original, especiallysince, again, this audience has

(55:20):
always been queer since thewizard of oz days with judy
garland um, it's nice to havethat here.
Yet this group ironically has,like other um alphabet, um.
What's cool too is as we go tothe oz dust ballroom, like, you
get this really sort of promsetup.
You get to see them ride theboat there.

(55:40):
And like um, you get an earlysetup of um galinda getting the
flower in her hair, the pinkflower that later will be used,
I believe, in um popular um.
You get the setup with the,with the hat, of course, the
pointy hat, um, which, in thisversion, um bowen Yang brings
out and goes like what is that?

(56:01):
And I wouldn't give it to theperson I hate most.
And then they all wink andsmile at each other and give it
to Elphaba as a gesture to offriendliness.
This is after, during thesequence dancing through life,
galinda has invited Bach, who isone of the munchkins who has a

(56:23):
crush on her, played by EthanSlater, and we all know about
the showmance going on therebetween.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Ariana Grande and.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Ethan Slater to invite Nexa Rose to the dance
because she's good, right, andreally probably just wants him
off of her back.
But where am I going with that?
It does connect to the plot.
He's taking Nessa Rose and,because of this gesture that

(56:53):
Glinda has made, nessa Rosecompels Elphaba to um to like.
See, uh, galinda is good, whichis why, um, once she's given
the hat by Galinda, she goes toMadame Morrible and ask her to
join her studies.
Um, for magic, since she knowsthat's what, um, galinda wants

(57:14):
most of all.
Um, then they go down to theAzis ballroom, which is this
gorgeous under the sea room with, with animals playing, and they
have this really fun dance.
And then then we have Elphabaenter.
Right now, I know this, I'm offscript, I know what's happening
, it's all good.
It's all good when Elphabaenters in all black, as she does

(57:38):
, with the pointy hat, andeveryone's just laughing and
quiet and silent around her, andElphaba realizes that she's
been pranked and what's newabout this is she takes a stand,
she sets the hat down on theground and she starts doing her
little dance.
And Galinda, who has justreceived a magic wand from Adam

(58:02):
Warble because of what Elphabaasked her to do in order to
thank Glinda, is feeling a majorguilt and sorry for having
ostracized her even further.
So they have the Ozdust Duet,which is a new musical sequence,
and they do this reallybeautiful.

(58:23):
It does make you cry.
Did you cry, yuvia, at thispoint, when they're like dancing
together, like touching eachother's faces with their hands.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
I didn't cry, but it was very beautiful.
It was a very beautiful moment.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
And then it then goes back into dancing through life
and they all bring those momentsof the dance into it.
And now, all of a sudden,elphaba is part of the group.
This, I think this moment alsosort of hints of the rumors of
like there being some sort ofromance between Galinda and
Elphaba that blossoms here, thatthere's some sort of connection

(58:59):
, and that's not necessarilyexplicit in the musical, but
it's also not been denied by theoriginal writer of the book
itself that there could be somesort of like, um, lesbian winks
here, um, but uh, we then go letme pick it up back up from the

(59:21):
musical To okay, here we go Toevade her persistent munchkin
admirer Bach.
Glinda convinces him to escortNessa Rose.
As I said, when a gratefulElphaba gets Glinda into sorcery

(59:41):
class, glinda decides to giveElphaba a social makeover which
leads us to popular um, this wasso well done.
The all these, a lot of theeffects within the show are
practical.
So all those like pop-ups ofthe um, of her uh bags that have
just now arrived, are real,real props.
And apparently there's a lot ofpeople hiding inside these
suitcases to make these thingspop up.

(01:00:02):
And you this is where you get awink at the shoes, dorothy's
ruby slippers when she offers amouthful, and they sort of toss
them.
Earlier we did see the silverslippers, which is true to the
original L Frank Baum's novel.

(01:00:22):
That, technically, is whatDorothy has, not these red
slippers that came from the MGMmovie.
Those are still there andsomething about the design, and
those are in the very firstsequence of the play.
But what's also interesting inthe design of these silver
slippers is that there's tornadoswirls in them Again, all over
the place.

(01:00:43):
Um, but uh, bringing us back topopular, I mean ariana grande,
through this whole piece, hasreally been giving us her
traditional musical theater, um,voice, as compared to what we
usually are sort of hearing herr&b, hip hop sounds.
We know that Ariana Grandecomes from Broadway, from 13,
the musical, but I know that shewas like, no, I'm going to do

(01:01:06):
the musical the way that itshould be done, as a musical,
and not with me just doing allthese pop ballads, cause she's
already done popular with Mika,which is a very fun version of
this song anyways.
But apparently the mirror thatpops up like that's super heavy.
Uh, I thought that's just acool behind the scenes, like how

(01:01:27):
many people it takes to make afilm happen.
Um, and I was told that cynthiaalso very much wanted to be a
participant in her likedevelopment, uh, as she's
getting a makeover, like notsomeone who's just like being
taken along as sort oforiginally done in the Broadway
show, but someone who's actuallyenjoying this connection with

(01:01:49):
Galinda after their long rivalry.
So this, this lovely moment,and there's so much pink, so
much pink in the sequence, andthen towards the end, we get an
extra like 30 seconds of riffingfrom Ariana Grande at the end
of Popular, as Elphaba runs off,because she's overwhelmed, I

(01:02:09):
guess, by the sisterhood andbeing seen as beautiful with the
pink flower that she puts inher hair, which also gives us a
little like ooh, there'ssomething here, there's this
little romance, um, anything toadd, lovey?

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
uh, just adding on to the the slippers that you, uh,
that you mentioned.
Uh, yes, then, in the originalwizard of oz novel they are
silver, but they were made redfor the wizard of oz film
because that, since this was thefirst film ever being released
in color, they wanted somethingthat popped, so they went with

(01:02:48):
red.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
But, yes, the the slippers are originally silver I
think it'll be interesting toif they make I, I, if they will
make them go red in the moviepart two, because in the musical
, to sort of nod to the Wizardof Oz which will happen in the
second act, which we won'tdiscuss today until a year from

(01:03:09):
now is that they put red lightson her shoes as they are
enchanted and give Nessa Rose,spoiler, the ability to walk and
she becomes the Wicked Witch ofthe East.
But but, uh, yeah, I'minterested to see if they will
stay true to that, like ifthey'll turn them red or if
they're going to just haveDorothy in silver shoes.
I think they tease that for thesecond part.

(01:03:31):
Um, they have finished filmingthe entire movie, right, they're
just in post Um, but it isexciting to see, potentially in
the second film, how they willbring more of the Wizard of the
Oz elements into the second act,because the second act is
typically shorter and again,you're getting another three
hour movie out of this, so theyget to build All right.

(01:03:53):
So we're almost there.
Elphaba is distraught when DrDillamond is arrested and taken
away by the authorities.
When she witnesses a governmentofficial experimenting on a
caged lion, elphaba's angerreleases a spell freezing almost
everyone in the room.
When Elphaba and Fiyero escapeand the free, terrified and free

(01:04:15):
, the terrified lion in thewoods, elphaba learns to her
surprise that she's attracted toFiyero, which leads to I'm Not
that Girl.
What I love about the movie howthey do this is that they bring
the poppies in.
She brings poppies because it'searlier established in the film
that Dr Dillamon also likespoppies, so she brings him a

(01:04:36):
gift of poppies and then, whenthey try to take Dillamon away,
the government officials, sheslams her book and all of a
sudden the poppies go floatingin the air and they put everyone
to sleep, which is a referenceto the Wizard of Oz movie and, I
assume, the book, the poppyfield that puts Dorothy to sleep
and the only person who doesn'tfall asleep with the spell is

(01:04:59):
Fiyero, which is because she,deep down inside, wants him to
help her.
We also know that this isspoiler alert the Cowardly Lion,
this terrified lion who was putin a cage as a cub, who they're
going to release into the woods.
And a nice little Easter egghere is when they're taking the
lion to the forest, they'rereferencing the Wizard of oz

(01:05:23):
movie, which has toto.
The dog with uh is her name mrsgulch, am I?
Is that correct?
Um, who is doubling as the, asthe wicked witch of the west and
in the wizard of oz movie.
So they have the lion in thebasket being um, being uh swept
away in the bike, um, so there'sjust another little wink that

(01:05:45):
gets everybody excited Um,anything to add on there, yuvia.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
All right.
So, um, as we go forward, uh,we have this beautiful forest to
put together this beautiful setthey use in the film.
And again, as I said earlier,she realizes that she has a
crush on Fiyero.
And what's given in this momenttoo, is there's hinted that

(01:06:15):
maybe Fiyero feels the samething too.
He runs off, cynthia sings herbeautiful rendition of not that
girl I heard that there werelike live birds on the set, um,
and they were like singing withher when they were recording
this, um, and that just seems,that's just so delicious, um,

(01:06:38):
and then it's nice too that weget to see in this sequence,
she's at university at night asshe sings the ending of the song
, while Vero gathers again withGalinda.
And this is where MadameMorville finds out about her
powers in the film and writes tothe wizard that you have to see

(01:07:02):
this talent that I've beentraining.
All righty, okay.
So, now that we're beingintroduced, there's a or, now
that the wizard of Oz has, um,reached out to Elphaba, um,

(01:07:23):
they're going to go off to Oz.
So, um, this film sequence, wehave the uh, we were bringing in
a train, this gorgeous train,which is funny enough, it's like
, why did Dorothy have to walkthe yellow brick road If she
could have took the train to Oz.
Um, and this is the moment too,where Galinda changes her name

(01:07:48):
to Glinda in honor of DrDillamon, who couldn't do the
guh because of the way his mouthis structured as a goat.
But she does this all to sortof earn Fiyero's attention, who
seems very distracted.
She says he's thinking more.
I don't like it, or somethingaround this line and Fiyero

(01:08:10):
comes in to say goodbye toElphaba with a little poppy
flower in his lapel.
So apparently here there's alsoanother wink to the wizard of
oz.
Um, so, uh, glinda once againrejects bach right before she
embarks on the trip to theemerald city.

(01:08:31):
In this scene, glinda pulls outa red handkerchief and places
it over bach's chest, rightwhere a heart should be, and
this is a nod to bach'sheartbreaking life and how he
eventually turns into the tinman.
There's also something early inthe film when he introduces
herself, where he says I cry alot, which is also the tin man,
how he rests himself up in thepoppy field.

(01:08:51):
Um, so, again, another nugget.
I think this was a specificmoment made for the film.
Um, and then we get to, uh, tothe song.
One short day, which is greatlyexpanded upon.
Um, madame morville informsalpha, but she's been invited to
the emerald city to meet thewizard.

(01:09:11):
One short day, um, alpha, butinvites galinda along the way
and they meet the wizardtogether.
Um, so you have to have thisbig reveal for the emerald city.
Um, there, there, um, thereapparently is a library in the
emerald city called bombslibrary, which is a reference

(01:09:32):
again to the um, writer of theoriginal book, um, it's, it's a
huge cast and we have a bigreveal here.
One of the biggest reveals theyhad everybody cheering in the
um, in the, the theater um, waswe have uh, this edition of the
song um one short day.

(01:09:53):
A they elaborate upon the uh,the book called the Grimmery um,
which I believe is more fromthe original book um of Wicked.
So the people who appear inthese roles to tell us about uh

(01:10:14):
the Grimmery is Indina Menzel,who originated the role of
Elphaba, and Kristen Chenoweth,who originated Galinda, and they
even do, and Dina gets to doher little in this sequence.
It's just a fun, fun wink towhat came before and then also
again builds upon this world andour understanding of of why Oz

(01:10:39):
has called Elphaba here.
Yeah, the Wonderful Wizard ofOz has called Elphaba to the
theater.
There's also one of the peoplein the players is Stephen
Sater's partner who introducesit.
Is that correct, stephen Sater?

(01:10:59):
Or am I referencing Stephenhenschwartz?
I'm sorry, I got into springawakening um, stephen schwartz
also makes a um, a uh cameo here.
He's the one who says thewizard will see you now.
Except he says it with noaffectation at all.
Um, one of the most iconiclines from the musical and from

(01:11:22):
the original mgm movie.
Um, but it's just a great,great moment, uh, hearkening
back anything to add onto thesequence that you enjoyed yeah,
well, there's, there's two, um,there's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
So for those of you who are not actors, it is like
such a big no-no for you to addanything that isn't in the
script.
So like you're not allowed toalter a script in any shape, way
or form.
Like a few years ago there wasa high school in Texas that got

(01:12:00):
in so much trouble because theyaltered Hamilton and made it
like religious, essentially LikeHamilton's ultimate message in
this version was like Jesus isour Lord and Savior, or whatever
.
So that's a big no-no.
You're not allowed to alter thescript in any shape, way or
form.
But Stephen Schwartz did givehis blessing for some ad-libs

(01:12:30):
and obviously other changes healso gave his blessing to but
one of the ad-libs that I reallyliked and it's saying something
about Ariana's again, againshowing off her comedic timing
is she actually ad-libs the linewhen she's getting on the train
, when she says, oh no, Icouldn't possibly come.
Okay, I'm coming.
And then she like jumps on thetrain.
Um, so I, I, yeah, that's,that's just funny.

(01:12:53):
And then there's actuallyanother cameo by winnie holtzman
in as well.
Yeah, she's the, the one thatwhen they show the grimory,
she's the one that's like, oh mygosh, it's the grimory on
display, or whatever oh yeah,yeah, she's the one that says
that line I know book writers donot get enough attention for

(01:13:15):
musicals, do they?

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
and they really make or break it.
Um, thank you for bringing thatup.
Yeah, um, so now we get to meetthe wonderful wizard of oz.
We see the mechanical head, um,and it's, which is what is
featured in the broadway stage.
Of course, on the film they getto make it that much bigger and

(01:13:38):
they, uh, in this role we havejeff goldblum, um, and he, he's
pretty perfectly cast for thisrole, right?
yeah quirky um I I really lovedthe sense of humor he brought.
Of course, this was originatedby joel gray um this role for
broadway um, who was theoriginal mc in cabaret.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
Um, but he sings doesn't joel gray also make a
cameo in one short day?

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
does he?

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
I believe I I thought he was the one that was um
before dina menzel and kristenchenoweth came out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
I thought he was the one that was on the stage giving
the backstory that is um,that's stephen schwartz's
partner who has okay, yeah, youwould think that they would
bring joel gray into it too.
Maybe schedules didn't line up,um, but um, okay.
So, um, um, we meet the wizard.

(01:14:38):
He sings sentimental man, andwhat's nice about the movie too
is that, uh, we get to see sortof the, the entire map of oz.
He has like this miniature umsetting and he's like trying to
figure out what color to makethe brick road, and it goes
through a couple options um,purple, blue, and they go to
yellow.
And then, uh, glenn does theone who's like, oh, I like

(01:15:01):
yellow, you should do yellow, um.
So there's again another nicewink um, he sings about wanting
to be a family man, which weknow will come into play in the
second part, and I think we'llelaborate on that further when
we get to part two of wicked um,and I just think his charm is
so lovely here.
I think they sort of sloweddown this moment.

(01:15:22):
I think it's sort of.
You know, in the in the stagemusical, um, we're building
towards defying gravity.
In this version, um, you,really they, they laid the.
I think the emphasis on, like um, elphaba, who you know has
wanted to be degreenified, isasked what she would want most

(01:15:42):
of all by the wizard, and whenwe expect her to say that, she
says I want you to help theanimals.
And that's just such a lovelymoment on film where you see it
behind her eyes like she couldget all she ever wanted and she
decides to do what's good.
Um, so the wizard is like, ohyeah, I'm all about that.

(01:16:06):
I had a feeling you would wantto do that, so you can do this
by, uh, opening the, the, thegrimory, which, um, no one's
been able to read since theancients passed it down, and
it's been set for him,supposedly the wonderful Wizard
of Oz.
So in the movie she goes andopens this book and to test the

(01:16:33):
wizard, under the pretense oftesting her magical skill, the
wizard tricks Elphabaeum tocreating an enchanted army of
spies for him.
So they've said that Chestry,the lead monkey, again who's
blue in tribute to the originalMGM movie he says, oh, he's

(01:16:54):
always wanted to fly and you cantell that just if I'm saying
that right, chestry is likethere's something behind his
eyes that is like either playingalong or, you know, isn't,
isn't on board, but helpful, bythinking that's what he wants,
cast the spell and is in.
The words are just coming toher and the monkey grows wings,

(01:17:18):
but he's like in pain and shewants to stop him and stop it.
And we learn from Adam Orvillethat there's no, that you can't
undo a magic spell from theGrimmery.
And then, once she startshearing screaming from another
room, they realize all themonkey army has been turned, has
wings.
And then they learn of theirevil intent to create spies with

(01:17:41):
the monkeys.
And Elphaba realizes that inthe movie the wizard can't even
read the Grimory himself andthat he's been a con this entire
time.
So from the musical setup,elphaba is shocked to realize

(01:18:05):
that the wizard has encouragedanti-animal sentiment to
strengthen his own politicalsupport.
As Madame Morville denouncesher to the public as a wicked
witch, elphaba bows to fight thewizard's injustice.
And that leads us to DefyingGravity.
Um, so, um, we get this lovely.

(01:18:26):
I mean they, they take DefyingGravity, which is like a five
minute song, it's like a 15minute sequence in the film and
it's it's a really great chanceto like a great chase sequence.
Um, we get to see the, uh, themadam marble, um, threatens the
monkey saying if you ever, uh,if you care for your family.

(01:18:48):
You'll do this and get thisweek, uh, this, this woman, so
they chase after her.
They're not on her side rightaway like they are in the
musical um, and then you get tosee the air balloon that um Oz
came in on, um.
You get a wink to um, I believe,uh, I think his name is Osbaum

(01:19:10):
um, is it?
Or you get a wink to hishistory, his um, how he used to
be in like a traveling show.
There's a poster when they'rein the attic of um, of the
circus act to use to be a partof um, the, the um, yeah, so we

(01:19:30):
get to.
We get to go into defyinggravity, um, which is just the
best song from yes, um.
Is there anything you want touh to discuss first before we go
into that?

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
No, just I mean, defying Gravity is just, it's on
a whole other level.
Yeah, I really really liked thefilm, but I, I was starting to
get like antsy because it's sucha long film.

(01:20:07):
And yeah, there did reach apoint where it was like all the
songs are great Don't get mewrong and the story is great,
but I I everyone loves DefyingGravity.
And so it did reach a pointwhere I was like we're getting
close to it, just give me tofind gravity, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
I do have a correction here.
His name is an Osbaum.
His name in in the real worldis Oscar Dix.
All right, from Omaha, yeah,nodding to the wizard's origin

(01:20:48):
story, um, so I mean what?
What can you even say aboutdefying gravity?
You, you get, uh, to see thebroom um, and instead of her
growing wings, uh, it enchantsthe broom um.
You get the introduction to thecape, which is also in the
musical, where Glinda, or Glindaat this point, gives her the
cape to keep her warm.

(01:21:09):
And there's really this nicemoment of we could have first of
all again, glinda's like, justdo what the wizard asks, you
could have everything you everwanted.
It's you're, you're flying offthe handle, um and um, elphaba
decides to do what's right andinvites her to come with her,
and they could be so powerful.
And there's, there's thismoment.

(01:21:30):
We see where glinda entertainsit, um and but makes her choice
to stay and wishes Elphaba thebest.
So, as the guards are comingfor Elphaba, she is running from

(01:21:52):
them and she jumps off thebuilding.
Essentially, and you see herfor this long sequence.
It's not, of course, in thestage production.
You see her in this longsequence.
It's not, of course in thestage production you see her in
a reflection as she's going downthe buildings.
She sees her inner child andshe learns how to control her
magic, because before she, shedidn't know how to, was only

(01:22:14):
brought about when she would getangry or frustrated.
Now she's able to summon allher powers by, you know, being
with that inner child, and sheflies on the broom.
As she's making her escape, shesays nobody in all of Oz, no
wizard that there is or was isever going to bring me down.

(01:22:35):
And what I love about thismovie is like, as she gains her
power is like all the power inOz, like the electricity goes
out, it's like blowing up.
The monkeys are chasing her Umand um.
She's there, away from thetower, just floating um in the

(01:22:57):
air, um, and she sings uh, lookto the Western sky.
It's just such a great momentthat even on stage it's
beautiful, it's lovely.
She goes up on one of thosecranes which is hidden by her
large cape and she's flying andit's such a moving moment and on
camera it's even more so.

(01:23:19):
I have to say this is one of myfavorite parts of the show
overall too, because when, um,madame morbel uh turns against
her um and they literallyconduct a witch hunt.
There's just something that Ibrought my family to see when
they were here in new york andI'm like this is this, is this

(01:23:40):
is tied to real life, you know,like this, um, this making an
other of someone, this becauseof the way they're born, um, as
a queer person, that alwaysresonated with me.
And this, like this hate thatMadame Morville spits, it always
just like gets to me at thismoment, and how elf, uh, elphaba
, decides to like stand herground, be who she is and do

(01:24:02):
what she thinks is right, um,that that just always, you know,
gets all the emotions going.
Um, and with the film, we alsoget this sort of building up to
her flying.
We get, uh, a repeat of theunlimited melody that builds to

(01:24:22):
her powerhouse battle cry, whichwe've all heard so many times.
And and that's where we leaveoff on the film, just like this
big leaping off the cliff momentthat, I think, is really
setting us up for a great parttoo.
I think I had, I think this filmreally exceeded people's

(01:24:46):
expectations, true to theoriginal material and true to
the MGM movie that I, I I hopethey can, you know, knock it out
of the park for the second part, wicked for good.
In a year from now, yuvia, doyou have anything else to add

(01:25:07):
onto this film?

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
It's yeah, it was great, it was a fantastic film.
Definitely, Definitely, andyeah, I can see why it's the
best like number one sellingmusical movie ever.
I think at this point it'sbreaking so many records and

(01:25:35):
it's getting so many Oscar nods.
Already People think thatCynthia and Ariana are going to
be nominated for Oscars fortheir performance.
I would love to see them takeit.
I'm not sure if they will, justbecause the Oscars don't
necessarily the Oscars likedramatic performances, not so

(01:26:00):
much comedic or musical, whichis you know which is its own
category Comedy and musical arepaired together.
In the Golden Globes, not in theOscars.
Yeah, so they'll probably win aGolden Globe Oscar.
Yeah, not sure they will, theyshould Oscar.
Yeah, not sure they will, theyshould.

(01:26:23):
I think it is a little sillythat so many great performances
are overlooked because they'renot dramatic or whatever.
I think Marissa Tomei is theonly one that has won for a
comedic performance for myCousin, vinny, and that was a
controversial win.
A lot of people are not happythat she won, but yeah, and that

(01:26:46):
was a controversial win.
A lot of people are not happythat she won um, but yeah, um.
So it is a fantastic, fantasticfilm and I did enjoy it.
I did.
I did start feeling the lengthof it towards the end, um, but
otherwise it was still good.
It wasn't like the antsinesswas more of like I think I I've
been sitting too long, not somuch of like when is this damn
thing going to be over, oranything like that in musical

(01:27:21):
theater.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
This is like the first thing everyone introduces
to you and you, honestly, youknow you get tired of it.
But then I think all thesemusical theater kids have come
back into the fold and maybepeople will come back to theater
because of this major hit.
I mean, I know wicked hasalways had a pretty good house,
but I in the most recentbroadway reports it's like
packed um.
So maybe there'll be aresurgence in theater and a love

(01:27:42):
for musical theater again,which there used to be so much
in the 40s and 50s, like thatwas pop and and um.
I'm excited to see what whatthis film will inspire for
another generation of musicallovers and and film lovers.
Um, so, yeah, it's.
Um the so for the golden gloves, it's, yeah, it's, it's.

(01:28:05):
I think it's nominated for, uh,musical or comedy, best motion
picture, best actress forcynthia.
Um, best supporting actress forariana.
And uh, it's got a cinematicand box office achievement
honoring the film's significantimpact, both artistically and
commercially.
Yeah, love it.

(01:28:26):
Love it Anything else, yuvia,oh, we have to rate it.
We have to compare it to themusical.
Now, this is only part one,yeah, and the musical as a whole
is so revolutionary it didn'twin Best Musical in its time.
Avenue Q actually did, but Ithink the movie sort of takes it

(01:28:53):
for me because you get toexpand upon the universe and I
think the movie's my favorite sofar.
Maybe part two I'll go back tothe original stage show.
How about for you?

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
Yeah, I mean, I think I still really, really, really
love the stage version of this.
The film is fantastic, don'tget me wrong, um, but I I think
I would go with the original.
Maybe.
Maybe it'll change for me once,once we get you know part one

(01:29:31):
and part two and we can compareit as a whole to the original.
Um, but yeah, I think, I thinkfor me right now it's the, the
stage adaptation.
Yeah, stage adaptation.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Stage adaptation of the book, for sure, all righty.
Well, you're the one whotypically signs us out.
What do you have to say?
And I'll join you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Well, thank you for joining me for this and for
being game to do musicals versusmovies.
Do you have any idea of whatthe next one you want to talk
about is going to be?
I?

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
I don't know if it'll be the next one, but I do have
some.
That I would love to addressmaybe in the next year is Les
Mis I am yeah, I'll give myopinions then.
Mean Girls Dream Girls Into theWoods.
Like any of the Sondheimadaptations, it's interesting to
see films that were made closerto the release of the original

(01:30:40):
musicals versus musicals thathave been around for decades and
now have their adaptation withall the history that comes
behind it.
I'm excited to talk about thedifferent casts and what people
bring to the role.
It's interesting because what'sbeautiful about stage is you
get to get so many people'sinterpretation.

(01:31:01):
Just by someone merely steppinginto the role, it becomes a
unique performance and in filmthat's the version you're going
to get.
You get it forever, but it'ssuch a big deal.
Oh, one for sure.
One of my favorites is SweeneyTodd.
I think that's an excellentadaptation to film for a
thriller.
Yeah, so I can't wait to domore of these in the future.

(01:31:26):
So thank you for hearing merant and talk and talk like a
musical theater geek about thismusical and more to come.

Speaker 1 (01:31:35):
Yes, yeah, I'm excited, and otherwise, all you
gotta say is, if you enjoyedthis episode, if you're looking
forward to future musical versusmovies episode, please leave a
rating and a review to this forthis podcast.
If you have any requests,anything, just let us know.

(01:32:01):
And yeah, is there anythingelse you'd like to add?

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
you can do the with me I.
I'm not a singer, so I'll letyou do that oh, I don't have my
full voice, but I'll go out onit.

Speaker 1 (01:32:17):
So down, boom all right, love it.
See everyone next time.
Thank you, bye.