January 14, 2025 • 35 mins
Unlock the secrets to transforming your relationship with food in our conversation with inspirational nutrition coach Kelly Cavin @kellycavinnutrition. Kelly shares her personal journey from restrictive dieting to using nutrition as a powerful tool for performance enhancement.
With host Sam Rhee @botoxandburpees, we discuss how understanding your body's maintenance number can revolutionize your approach to refueling and achieving your body composition goals. We also unpack the critical role of accountability, both from a coach and oneself, in making lasting changes, and address common misconceptions about nutrition coaching.
Kelly guides us through the fundamentals of establishing healthy nutrition habits that extend beyond quick fixes. Explore the initial steps she takes with new clients to understand their motivations and lifestyle, setting realistic goals that encourage progress without overwhelm.
Kelly emphasizes the joy of helping clients break free from disordered thinking and learn to savor life's moments without guilt. Learn how practical tools like MyFitnessPal can aid in tracking nutritional habits effectively, ensuring that the process is both manageable and motivating.
Busy professionals and parents will find a wealth of strategies to incorporate better nutrition and exercise into their packed schedules. From time-saving meal prep solutions to creative family meal planning,
Kelly offers practical tips to simplify the process while maintaining health goals. She highlights the importance of small, sustainable changes and how embracing a non-linear journey in nutrition can lead to consistent and lasting success. Join us as Kelly shares her insights on fostering foundational habits that support a healthy lifestyle, emphasizing the power of gradual improvement over time. Get inspired to take control of your nutrition and make lasting changes.
#nutrition #BotoxAndBurpees @crossfittraining @crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate #personalizedfitness
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Rhee (00:04):
Welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees,
and I'm here with a very specialguest, nutrition coach Kelly
Cavan.
She is someone that I've knownfor years and I really wanted
her on this podcast to talkabout nutrition and coaching,
for a couple of reasons.
One is that I've known you asan athlete, and I think when you
see someone as an athlete, youcan sort of see who they are,
(00:26):
and you have always been agrinder Like.
You don't sit there and lordover people, even though you're
a very good athlete, you'reexcellent.
Actually.
You don't take it too high,don't take it too low.
You actually are more hard onyourself most days than than not
, but you never shrink away froma challenge like whatever it is
than not, but you never shrinkaway from a challenge Like
whatever it is.
Whatever that workout is, um,you just attack it, and I think
(00:48):
that, as a coach, you wantsomeone who's always going to be
grinding with you foreverything that you do.
Um, so, uh, just a briefintroduction about Kelly.
So, uh, I know you've uh hadmultiple, uh, multiple
certifications pretty impressivePrecision Nutrition Level 1,
nasa Nutrition Certification andthen as well as a CrossFit
(01:10):
Nutrition 1 certification.
So talk to me a little bitabout your experience with your
training, your philosophy, likewhat your approach as a
nutrition coach has, like whatthat has molded you into in
terms of how you approachtalking to clients.
So my interest in becoming anutrition coach has like what
that has molded you into interms of how you approach
talking to clients.
Kelly Cavin (01:26):
So my interest in becoming a nutrition coach came
from my experience with anutrition coach when I started
CrossFit and I got more into myperformance.
I was able to move away from thekind of disordered thinking I'd
always had about wanting totake up less space and cutting
and dieting, and realizing thatif I wanted to achieve my goals,
(01:48):
I had to fuel them, and so Iactually hired a nutrition coach
to work with me on finding mymaintenance number, which is
something a lot of peopleprobably aren't familiar with,
but it's that range that we sitat, that we are refueling all of
the energy we use throughoutthe day.
We can be there, that's wherewe should be most of the year
(02:08):
and it's where we are mosteffective.
And finding that balance for mewas what helped me to maximize
a lot of my performance goals,as well as body composition
changes.
And in turn, then I wanted tobe that for other people and
support other people and findingthe sustainable habits that
(02:32):
would help them reach theirgoals, whether it was weight
loss, body comp changes,performance and just learning
more about that and being ableto do for them what what was
done for me and so helpful.
Sam Rhee (02:44):
So if someone's skeptic and they're saying, why
do I need a nutrition coach, Icould just read this stuff.
I could just watch a bunch ofYouTube videos like the one,
probably like this one and justsort of figure it out myself.
Because you know, this isn'trocket science, it's I eat every
day.
I should be able to figure outwhat I'm doing with that.
It's not rocket science, it's Ieat every day.
I should be able to figure outwhat I'm doing with that.
Kelly Cavin (03:05):
It's not rocket science and I think people
sometimes overcomplicate whatthey're looking for or what they
need to do.
I think primarily it'saccountability.
I think it's somebody to toknow someone's looking over your
shoulder to kind of steer youin the right direction when you
fall off a little bit.
People really thrive when theyknow that they're being held
(03:32):
accountable, whether it's acoach, a friend, a partner, a
spouse.
It just helps to know thatyou're answering to somebody
else.
Sam Rhee (03:40):
I would agree with that a thousand percent for two
reasons.
One is we actually, as laypeople in general, don't know as
much about nutrition as wethink we do.
And I know that as a physician,because as physicians we're
horrible at nutrition and mostof my knowledge in terms of
nutrition has been trial anderror, going through nutrition
(04:01):
challenges and resets and tryingand experimenting with
different diets.
And I think if I had had anutrition coach at the beginning
, someone who had had experiencesort of working with people and
saying, okay, so you mightthink this is what you need to
do, but why don't you thinkabout it this way or try it this
way?
And then, like you said, alsoaccountability.
(04:23):
I think one of the biggestthings that I've seen in fitness
is that you need accountability, right, that's why we take
classes.
That's what CrossFit's about.
It's about being in a groupsetting.
It's about putting your numberup on the whiteboard, and you
don't have to necessarily putyour number on a whiteboard for
everyone to see for nutrition.
But if there is someone therethat is helping you, saying, hey
, listen, this is not you knowor encouragement more like, oh,
(04:50):
you met your goals, that youreally needed to for this, this
and this it just sort of getsyou into the right habits?
Well sure.
So then, when you start withclients, what do you think is
the biggest misconception, orwhat is it that they don't know
or don't realize the most whenyou first start working with
somebody?
Kelly Cavin (05:04):
I think in part it is that accountability, it's
knowing so when I start workingwith people I'm not breathing
down your neck.
And I find that some people jumpright in and they want to make
me happy, and so they're doingit because they know that I'm
looking and they want to be theA student.
Other people kind of pick andchoose what they want to take
(05:25):
from what I put out there andthen some people fall off and
don't really stick with it andmaybe they weren't ready or
maybe they just don't want tomake the lifestyle changes.
It ebbs and flows for everybody, but I think the most important
thing to know is that it's alevel of accountability that you
(05:45):
still have to maintain foryourself.
I'm not going to babysit you orI check in once a week.
You know I have access maybe tomy fitness pal or your notes
and your phone, or you can sharea diary with me, but I'm not
looking at it every day to seewhat you're eating.
It's just kind of knowing thatit's possible you might second
guess some choices and makebetter ones if you know that's
(06:07):
the case, right.
Sam Rhee (06:07):
So you don't need to be a parent where you're sitting
there breathing down their neckabout all this stuff.
And it's about accountability,but that accountability has to
come from your client, who hasto put that in.
You're not going to build likeestablish their resolve or
somehow give them the will, likethey have to bring that will to
the table in order to get thisdone.
(06:29):
That's important, like that'sfor every coach right.
Like you know, when you go workout, you can't get your coach
to do the workout for you.
Like you've got to put in theeffort.
Kelly Cavin (06:39):
Yeah, and it can be frustrating because you can.
You can lead a horse to water.
You can give them everythingthat they need and it's on them
to use it or not, to trust theprocess.
It's a process.
You're not going to see, um,you know, it's not the quick fix
and that's what makes itsustainable and that's what
makes it.
Then, when we're our timetogether is done, you can
(07:00):
continue doing those thingsbecause you've adapted to habits
that are flexible and you cansustain in day to day life
without me or a coach.
Sam Rhee (07:11):
What is it that you love about nutrition coaching,
like why why do you still do it?
What is it that really gets youjazzed about it?
Kelly Cavin (07:17):
I think it was.
As I mentioned before.
The motivation for me washelping other people kind of
change that disordered thinkingand knowing that, like every day
can't be an all or nothing andyou know it's.
You can work things into yourday to day that you may consider
bad or good and make it allwork, because we don't live in a
vacuum.
(07:37):
You know we can commit certaintimes to being really dialed in
but that's not reality.
There's holidays, birthdays,dinner out, bad days where you
just want a treat or whatever itmight be.
It's learning how to managethose times and when people
trust me and they givethemselves that grace and that
(08:00):
time and they start to see itwork, and then they come back to
me and they're like, oh my gosh, I love I enjoyed my
Thanksgiving so much because Ididn't feel like I had to eat
everything in sight, but Ienjoyed it and it was delicious
and the next day I just got backon track and you know I didn't
feel guilty about it.
It's those moments that reallyare like big aha moments for
(08:21):
them and really gratifying forme.
Sam Rhee (08:24):
So let's suppose I'm one of your new clients and I'm
showing up at your door and wehave a meeting and I don't know
anything about nutrition.
I just need help.
What is it that you're going todo with me at the get?
Go to get me started.
Kelly Cavin (08:38):
So usually it's a conversation, a meeting, to kind
of establish their why.
You know, why do they want toget you know their nutrition on
track, where do they see theirchallenges and what do they
think they do well, because Ithink that's really important to
kind of work off of as well.
So we have that conversationand kind of all explain my
(09:01):
process.
I check in weekly, I provideyou know we track weight and
other biometrics measurementsand things like that to just
track changes.
And then I'll send aquestionnaire that helps them
dig in a little bit more, givesme more information about them.
But also, have they worked witha nutrition coach before?
(09:22):
If so, what was that like?
Um?
Was it a good experience or bad?
What they feel their nutritionknowledge to be?
Um?
Have they used a tracker ofsome sort my fitness pal.
Have they counted macros before?
Um?
It's important to know whatstress levels, uh, sleep
patterns, if they have foodaversions, um, uh, if they have
(09:46):
allergies of any sort, because Idon't want to be recommending
foods that they either can't eator like I hate that.
And then it's important tolearn more about their life, you
know.
Do they have kids?
Do they work full time?
Do they exercise.
That's also a big piece, howoften they exercise.
So it just gives me kind of a360 degree view of what I'm
working with, and then we kindof establish just a jumping off
(10:10):
point.
It's always good to get youknow three to five days of them,
tracking just what they eat dayto day, and usually it comes
out a little cleaner than itnormally would be.
Sam Rhee (10:22):
Well, yeah, because they're writing it down.
Kelly Cavin (10:24):
Now they're thinking about it so
automatically.
They're kind of like dialing itin a little bit, but it gives
me a good idea of what theireven maintenance numbers might
be and where a good jumping offpoint is.
And then it's always the lowhanging fruit.
It's starting, simple it's areyou getting enough protein with
every meal?
Are you getting fruits andvegetables with every meal?
(10:46):
Are you exercising?
How often are you exercising?
So it's setting small goals tostart, so that they feel
successful week over week andthey're not overwhelmed, and
also asking for patience andgrace, because it does take time
for those things to add up, tofeel like more.
Sam Rhee (11:08):
What apps do you like to use for clients in terms of
them tracking themselves?
Kelly Cavin (11:13):
My Fitness Pal is the easiest one because it gives
me access to their journal so Ican log in and view what
they've had and they can say tome hey, you know, on this day I
ate this, but I'm not sure if Ihad had that or what could I
have added to this and I can goin and access and view
everything.
I haven't found other apps thathave that capability and so
(11:34):
that's really the mostinteractive with them.
Some people don't.
Tracking is a little bitdaunting.
It's not meant to be forever,but it is a really good tool.
But it's also helpful forpeople to just add notes in
their phone and they can sharethose with me.
I have a teenager who does that.
I'm like I'm not going to askher to blog in MyFitnessPal
(11:57):
every day, but she will makenotes and share them and then I
can see.
It's just an easy way for herto jot down her daily intake
without being super, and itkeeps her going because it's not
an overwhelming ask.
Sam Rhee (12:13):
That's not bad, ok, so let's get into a couple of
possible scenarios, so someexample people that you might
see, and maybe one of ourlisteners or watchers might be
sort of in this category, andthen we can sort of approach it.
And this is the first one.
I called the busy professional.
So this is someone maybe in the40, 45 years old, somewhere in
(12:34):
there, maybe 50.
They don't know a whole lotabout nutrition per se.
They don't really exercise thatregularly and over the past
couple of years every yearthey're gaining about two pounds
.
Maybe they travel a lot or theywork a lot, so they're kind of
limited in terms of, like, theiroptions eating at work.
Maybe they binge eat, likemaybe they don't eat all day and
(12:56):
then they eat a lot at nightwhen they get home.
The rest of their habits arekind of not awesome either.
They're stressed right becausethey have a lot of work related
issues.
Maybe maybe they're notsleeping well.
And now they're coming, comingto you because they're like wow,
I've gained like 10 pounds overthe past couple of years and I
need help with this.
(13:17):
Like, how do we start with this?
Kelly Cavin (13:19):
So I think someone like that, the schedule is a big
challenge, with travelespecially, but also being in an
office, maybe sitting at a deskall day long.
Be sitting at a desk all daylong.
I emphasize meals in that caseeating breakfast before you
leave, planning lunch you canuse a meal prep service, you can
(13:40):
bring leftovers from dinner thenight before Someone like that.
I would probably recommendmaking a designated time during
the week to plan out meals sothat you're not scrambling.
You get home from work andyou're like oh, I didn't have
anything planned for dinner, I'mjust going to have a bowl of
cereal.
Nothing wrong with a bowl ofcereal here and there, but it's
also not great every day, and soit's good to have a plan.
(14:03):
I also I've worked with a lot ofpeople who travel and we talk
about, you know, airports havecome a long way.
They have a lot of, you know,really great snacks and
refrigerated items that you canget once you're through the hard
boiled eggs.
There's high protein Greekyogurts, protein bars if you
need them, but even like a wrapwith you know, deli turkey or
(14:26):
the different, like snack boxesthat have cheeses and nuts and
things that you can, there areways to get that protein in and
things that you can.
There are ways to get thatprotein in if you're wanting to
make the effort.
The core power energy drinksare great, so even having like a
stash of that at work so thatif you need something it's just
a quick grab.
And then movement is key, evenif it's not intentional exercise
(14:49):
, but getting up to walk aroundthe office for five minutes
every hour.
So walk around the airport, godown to the gym at work and then
, once someone starts to getmomentum a little bit, then you
move on to.
Well, hey, how about you gettwo times in at the gym a week?
And just because they'refeeling good, making progress
(15:10):
where they are, you kind of takethe next step.
How's your sleep?
You know, go to bed a half hourearlier every night if you're
stressed and you just need tolike relax, unplug a little bit
and try to work back some ofthat stress and just start small
.
Sam Rhee (15:22):
I think one of the biggest things with these types
of people is that it's sort of avicious cycle, like they have a
lot of stress, they have a lotof habits that are sort of
molded around their reallycrappy work schedule and then
they can't break out of it.
And it's because of that thatthey give themselves a grace,
like well, I can't do thesethings because I'm is so far off
(15:45):
the pendulum on this.
I actually have to do this,maybe more than other people do
and that's really hard whenyou've only gotten four hours of
sleep.
You've been on a plane for sixhours, you have a work dinner
(16:07):
and you know, and those are thekind of people that need to
start.
But especially because youcould probably do that when
you're in your 20s, early 30s,but then you get into your 40s
and it gets really hard.
I would say, for a lot ofpeople I work with, alcohol
tends to be a killer.
It messes up your sleep.
When you drink at work dinnersand so forth, it just it.
(16:29):
It's a lot of empty caloriessometimes makes.
It also leads to poor foodchoices.
Kelly Cavin (16:35):
Yeah, but that's a big piece of the alcohol
drinking in general is just itlowers your inhibitions and then
you're like, oh, I'm just goingto have that.
Sam Rhee (16:44):
Right.
Kelly Cavin (16:45):
What's the big deal ?
It adds up.
Sam Rhee (16:46):
Exactly, and so and I found that in the past and so so
once you kind of break thecycle a little bit, you can sort
of get out of it.
But I think finding the way tobreak it is really hard because
it does take planning.
Like you said, meal prep is notsomething that you do in the
spur of the moment.
You have to actually spend sometime doing that.
Kelly Cavin (17:06):
And there's services.
One of my clients started usinga service and said you know, I
can split them and I can freezeone and then when I come home
after work or I can have halffor dinner and half for lunch.
Um, it's, those are kind ofthat.
That's a great person to leaninto, that, because you also
don't want to come home fromwork after a long day and have
(17:26):
to pull a meal together.
Um, I, a lot of companies andoffices have exercise incentives
like walk, getting steps, andgift cards and insurance
companies offer the same type of.
So it's.
You can look into those thingsto kind of get that extra push
as well if there's a littlereward at the end of it.
And I do think having highprotein snacks available at the
(17:52):
office because it's easy to kindof just grab something and pick
.
But knowing that if you aredoing that, it's something that
is has benefits is important aswell.
Sam Rhee (18:03):
It's tough when they have donuts at the office and
you have your core protein shakeor whatever, like.
You have to actually have somewillpower because your coach
isn't going to be able to dothat for you.
Kelly Cavin (18:13):
You have to actually be able to, like
navigate that, or have the donut, but also have the core power.
You know, make the pair of thechoice with something better,
and you know you don't alwayshave to.
I think it is important to giveyourself the grace to have
those things.
Otherwise you go into thatrestriction mode where you feel
like it's all off limits andthen you either pick the
(18:36):
weekends to go off the rails orin general you just completely
fall off the rails and and kindof lose that momentum.
So that is a big piece too iskind of working in the things
that you enjoy.
Sam Rhee (18:47):
I like that.
You're a very flexible,forgiving coach and much, much
better than some of my coachesin my life.
Let's put it that way, allright?
So let's go to scenario numbertwo, the young athlete.
So we have some people likethis at the gym there, let's say
it's a 25-ish year old woman,maybe 30, training, loves
CrossFit, doing a ton ofworkouts.
(19:10):
She wants to improve herperformance, but she's also
worried, like she wants to stayfeminine.
She doesn't want to get bulkyor muscle bound or heavy or
change her aesthetics negatively.
Like, how do you approachsomeone like that?
Kelly Cavin (19:27):
So I think this is where the beauty of maintenance
comes in.
When you know what yourmaintenance it's's a range, but
what that range of calories isper day, it's really important
to eat enough when you'retraining like that, without
eating too much.
I think that's where the beautyof macros comes in.
You're getting enough proteinfor muscle growth and repair and
(19:51):
maintenance if that's your goal.
But also carbs and fat aresuper important for energy.
Timing them, like having theright things before and after
workouts is important and that'ssomething that when you have
that balance throughout the day,that's when you also can see
those body composition changes.
It's hard to get bulky.
(20:12):
I know that's like a big fearfor women in general, but people
work like years to get bulky.
Eating in a surplus is oftennecessary for that to happen as
well.
So having a handle on how muchyou're eating and being at that
maintenance number kind of keepsthat in check as well.
Sam Rhee (20:32):
In terms of macro.
So counting macros is basicallycounting macronutrients, which
is your proportion ofcarbohydrates, fats and protein
that you take in every day, andyou have certain proportions and
certain numbers in terms ofcalories of each.
And I have tried that and it isvery onerous and I could see it
and, like most people, probablydon't have the time or patience
(20:55):
to do it.
An athlete in this situationwould, because that's very
important to her.
But have you tried countingmacros personally and how did
you find that to be as a process?
Because I always felt like itwas at the end of the day, I was
like, oh, I'm short, like 10grams of fat, and so I'd like
eat like seven peanuts orsomething.
Kelly Cavin (21:15):
Yeah.
Sam Rhee (21:16):
Like it's it, just it started to become a little crazy
.
Kelly Cavin (21:18):
It can be and if that's kind of your tendency not
you per se but if your tendencyis disordered, eating in any
sort of way, counting macros canbe a slippery slope.
I also don't think thatnecessarily has to be forever.
I've counted macros years agoand was given very low numbers
and I at the time didn'tunderstand macros and the
(21:44):
calorie correlation.
In hindsight, when I did learnmore about them and looked back,
I was like no wonder I wasstarving and miserable and
Freddie couldn't wait for me tostop counting or for, like, the
challenge to be over because Iwas miserable.
But it's also a really good wayto keep yourself in check to
eat a well-balanced.
It kind of encourages you toeat more well-balanced.
The more whole fruits,vegetables, grains, lean
(22:06):
proteins you eat, the more youcan eat volume wise.
So if you're in a deficit,you're going to be hungry.
You're eating less than yourbody needs and it's important to
make sure that you'remitigating that with those kinds
of foods.
But for the general person,your goals are generally are
calorie based and macros docorrelate to that.
(22:27):
So if you're in a deficit youcould have a calorie threshold
and just make sure you'regetting enough protein.
Um, the fats and carbs can landwherever they are.
Um.
Ultimately, calories are Kingand you it's that's going to
dictate whether you're atmaintenance, in a surplus, in a
deficit, how deep of a deficityou're in Um.
(22:48):
So no, I, I wouldn't.
I would say for an athlete likethis, they're helpful.
Um.
I.
I was both surprised at howmuch I could eat Um when I did
this and built every week to seelike how far I could push and
maintain Um.
I think we're so programmed tohave this like lower calorie
(23:09):
threshold in all of our minds,but I also think that for an
athlete, getting that balance ismore caters more to good
performance.
Sam Rhee (23:21):
I think it's surprising how your appetite or
at least mine did changed when Iwas eating more protein, like I
was actually less hungry thanwhen I was eating a lot more
carbs.
Kelly Cavin (23:40):
I think it.
Just, you know, the satietysort of reflex is a little bit
different.
We burn protein slower than weburn carbs.
Carbs we burn very quickly andthat's why pre-workout it's
really helpful to have quickdigesting carbs fruits,
vegetables, rice, cakes, cereal,things like that.
At all the CrossFitcompetitions Everyone's got that
they're they're uncrustable andthings like that, because you
(24:02):
burn that quickly and then it'sready to go for your workouts.
I always think of the when I goout to eat.
If I were to order a stack ofpancakes for breakfast, I'm
starving like an hour laterbecause, it's burnt.
Sam Rhee (24:16):
Right.
Kelly Cavin (24:16):
So protein is slower to digest.
We actually burn the mostcalories, you know digesting
protein as well, but it willkeep you more full longer.
And as well as fruits andvegetables with fiber, that also
is slower to process and keepyou more full fruits and
vegetables with fiber.
Sam Rhee (24:36):
That also is slower to process and keep you more full.
How um hard or uptight are youabout processed or ultra
processed foods?
I I feel like it depends on theclient.
Like the 45 year old dude, I'mnot sweating so much the
processed stuff because he justneeds to get sort of what he can
um, but for someone like anathlete like this or, in general
, like the healthier you keepreaching towards you kind of
(24:58):
like it feels like I'm trying tostay away more from the process
or ultra process yeah, I thinkthe dose is in the poison or the
poisons in the dose in thatcase.
Kelly Cavin (25:08):
Um, where you know too much of that isn't good for
anybody.
But if that's your, you knowyour 200 calorie treat at the
end of the day and you've hitall your goals and it works for
you Absolutely.
I think that that fits.
I think, for an athlete likethat, if you're trying to
maximize what your body can doand you want the micronutrients
(25:31):
also of all of the, the fruitsand vegetables and whole foods,
then it's probably somethingthat you might want to steer
away from.
But also you don't want tocater to that mentality of
things being off limits.
So, even as an athlete, I thinkit's important to give yourself
the grace of those treats andfoods here and there, because
(25:52):
otherwise you're creating thatdichotomy of good and bad like
breaking rules.
And then you then there's an endpoint where you can't sustain
that anymore.
Right, and you don't want that.
You know long-term, then you'renot creating habits, you're.
It's more of a diet that isn'tgoing to last.
Sam Rhee (26:11):
I like the fact that you're trying to not establish
these psychological barriers ofyou know, because we all have
them, either culturally when wegrew up, maybe our parents,
maybe like when we were youngadults, where things are
forbidden, they're notappropriate, and sort of like
kind of removing that stigma,kind of helps people not have to
freak out about that.
Kelly Cavin (26:31):
I think we grew up in a time of diet food like
light, this diet that Everyonehas, the people they look to in
their time, where it was BritneySpears for me they're a lot of.
It is genetic and for me thatwas never going to be the case.
So when I realized, withbuilding muscle, that that was
(26:55):
really empowering and it feltreally good and I'm really happy
with the way I look and I wantmy kids to see that and my girls
, and to not feel like foods aregood or bad or that, like you
need the diet food, it's it.
You know, everything has aplace and a time.
Sam Rhee (27:11):
Let's go through the last one, the new parent.
I think this is verychallenging.
So you're like a 30, 35 yearold parent.
You have kids, maybe multiplekids.
You have to.
You know you're making familymeals, but then you also have
personal health goals as wellLike, how like, and your life is
just a mess because you haveall these family
responsibilities.
(27:31):
You're pulling your hair out.
How do they approach theireating as well as sort of their
families eating at the same time?
Kelly Cavin (27:39):
I think the simpler the better.
I think people have a tendencyto overcomplicate.
It doesn't have to be a recipe.
You can grill a bunch ofchicken, you can roast a bunch
of vegetables, or and make pastaor rice on the side, or mashed
potatoes or sweet potatoes.
It's having a little bit ofeach that something will work
(28:04):
for everyone.
It's easy to.
I'm a recipe follower and Imake the time for that because
I'm just not great at pullingthings together.
But I do think that in thosetimes, because I've been there
and I have three kids andeverybody has different
preferences and I have my owngoals and things that I want
(28:26):
it's just a matter of makingsure that you're not
overcomplicating it and you cansimplify just a protein, a carb
and some vegetables or twovegetables or two carbs,
whatever it might be, so thateverybody has a little bit of
everything.
The crock pot or the air fryer,things like that that are just
(28:49):
make things that much easier.
I put food and I put it in theon the crock pot yesterday and I
like conquered the bay.
It was like I was done at 12and I felt so good.
Also, something that peopledon't always think about is
frozen food.
Um, there's frozen grilledchicken.
There's frozen vegetables.
They're flash frozen at theirripest.
There is no, there's nothingwrong with frozen food, so buy a
(29:10):
bunch of bags of frozenvegetables and defrost one for
everybody, or whatever it may be.
There's different flavorprofiles.
That's the easiest way to go,and it's very readily available
and relatively inexpensive too.
Sam Rhee (29:28):
This one is a tough one because it's always easier
said than done and I've seenparents struggle with my child
will only eat peas and chickenfingers and refuses to eat
anything else, or, you know,they have food aversion or other
issues, and so I don't thinkI've ever seen a child ever
carry that out throughpre-adolescence.
Kelly Cavin (29:52):
Yeah.
Sam Rhee (29:52):
But certainly the first couple of years can always
be a little bit of a challengewith stuff like that.
Kelly Cavin (29:57):
I also think there's something that I've had
to work on is moving away fromthe traditional breakfast is
breakfast, lunch is lunch,dinner is dinner.
Have breakfast for dinner.
There's no problem withscrambled eggs and some cut up
fruit.
You know it doesn't have to bevegetables, you can call up
fruit with their dinner.
Um, and kind of moving out ofthose traditional ideals um kind
(30:18):
of helps you to broaden thehorizons on things that they
might be more open to eating.
That's awesome I love a turkeysandwich for dinner.
You know, it's like I'm verymarried to that, or I always was
, so it's always a little bithard for me to have like
something like breakfast fordinner, right, and then I think,
well, why couldn't I have eggsfor dinner?
(30:40):
What is the big deal?
So I love that helps you.
Sam Rhee (30:45):
So I love everything that we've talked about so far.
So I love everything that we'vetalked about so far.
Um, what are some of the finalbig takeaways that you would
want someone listening to thisto know about nutrition, about
nutrition coaching, about howthey, if they don't have someone
or have never had someone, likelike what they should expect
(31:07):
and and why should they, at thispoint, just now, start doing it
?
Kelly Cavin (31:10):
I think there's a lot of noise out there about
what's good for you, what's badfor you different diets,
cleanses, quick fixes but wedon't live in a vacuum and we do
need to learn how to adaptthese healthy habits to take on
whatever it is that comes ourway from day to day, and I think
(31:32):
that before we look to thosethings, you have to check the
boxes, and it's not thatcomplicated.
It's eating protein, fruits andvegetables, moving your body
every day, whether it's a walkor an intentional workout,
getting enough sleep, drinkingenough water.
None of it is sexy or exciting,but it's the most sustainably
(31:57):
simple way to live and it allowsfor flexibility.
So if you are checking allthose boxes and still having a
hard time, then there may bemore going on there, but I think
a lot of people look past allof that and want to do the easy
thing that's going to give themquicker results.
Sam Rhee (32:15):
Yeah, I think most of the things that I've seen have
very hard, strict guidelines.
Like any other diet that you'veseen out there whether it's a
grapefruit diet or this or thatand um it, it imposes, like you
(33:05):
said, these ideas that this canbe done quickly, that you can do
this in three months or sixmonths, and I think most of us
know who have ever sort of dealtwith nutrition on a uh and
grappled with it.
It it's a process and it's nota linear, straightforward
process.
It's like a zigzag and I've youto be able to hit a baseball
like a 75 mile per hour baseball, but you have to start
somewhere with it and youcontinually get better with it.
And I think that would be mymessage for people is it may
seem daunting with your life,like, oh, how do I get enough
(33:26):
sleep?
How do I drink enough water?
How do I get enough sleep?
How do I drink, you know, drinkenough water?
How do I eat, like healthy?
How do I make these changeswhich sound simple but can be
overwhelming, when it's just somuch easier for me to drive?
You know, on my way home and Iused to be this person pick up
Sonic or Wendy's and that's mymeal and I'm done, and I don't
have to worry about meal prep orany of that stuff.
(34:00):
But at some point most peoplehave to take some sort of
self-responsibility and say,listen, I don't want this to be
the way I live forever, andsometimes people like you know
have really serious about mynutrition is, I went on a trip
and I put on a suit that Ihadn't worn in about a year and
a half and it wouldn't fit and Ihad to go get some safety pins
from downstairs to to to put thepants on, and and I think most
people will find like if theycare enough about themselves,
(34:23):
we'll make those changes, butthen also realize that it's a
process that takes a tremendousamount of time.
Kelly Cavin (34:29):
Well, and you said it.
It's like you know it soundssimple, but we all have
different lives.
We all have different stressesand jobs and things that come
into play.
And that's where a coach ishelpful, because, like with a
coach on a sports team, you needa game plan and my job is then
to tell you how to make thosethings work around your
(34:49):
lifestyle.
And there's ways to do that, nomatter what the process, as
long as you're willing to makethose changes, be open-minded,
um, and kind of trust theprocess.
Sam Rhee (35:01):
I love that.
Um, what is your uh coaching IGhandle?
I know you have an IG.
Kelly Cavin (35:07):
It's Kelly Cavan Nutrition.
Sam Rhee (35:08):
Kelly Cavan Nutrition, check it out.
I thank you so much.
Thank you for the informationand it's actually inspired me
some more.
So I hope for everyone who hasjust gotten through the new year
and is starting to think about,as always, new beginnings, I
encourage that, like it doesn'tmatter when you start, it's just
as good to start in January asit is in July, absolutely, and
(35:30):
don't give up.
Start with you know, stick withit and and I think, like you
said, using a coach can be sohelpful on so many levels.
And thank you so much forsharing your expertise.
Kelly Cavin (35:42):
Thank you for having me.
Welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees,
and I'm here with a very specialguest, nutrition coach Kelly
Cavan.
She is someone that I've knownfor years and I really wanted
her on this podcast to talkabout nutrition and coaching,
for a couple of reasons.
One is that I've known you asan athlete, and I think when you
see someone as an athlete, youcan sort of see who they are,
(00:26):
and you have always been agrinder Like.
You don't sit there and lordover people, even though you're
a very good athlete, you'reexcellent.
Actually.
You don't take it too high,don't take it too low.
You actually are more hard onyourself most days than than not
, but you never shrink away froma challenge like whatever it is
than not, but you never shrinkaway from a challenge Like
whatever it is.
Whatever that workout is, um,you just attack it, and I think
(00:48):
that, as a coach, you wantsomeone who's always going to be
grinding with you foreverything that you do.
Um, so, uh, just a briefintroduction about Kelly.
So, uh, I know you've uh hadmultiple, uh, multiple
certifications pretty impressivePrecision Nutrition Level 1,
nasa Nutrition Certification andthen as well as a CrossFit
(01:10):
Nutrition 1 certification.
So talk to me a little bitabout your experience with your
training, your philosophy, likewhat your approach as a
nutrition coach has, like whatthat has molded you into in
terms of how you approachtalking to clients.
So my interest in becoming anutrition coach has like what
that has molded you into interms of how you approach
talking to clients.
Kelly Cavin (01:26):
So my interest in becoming a nutrition coach came
from my experience with anutrition coach when I started
CrossFit and I got more into myperformance.
I was able to move away from thekind of disordered thinking I'd
always had about wanting totake up less space and cutting
and dieting, and realizing thatif I wanted to achieve my goals,
(01:48):
I had to fuel them, and so Iactually hired a nutrition coach
to work with me on finding mymaintenance number, which is
something a lot of peopleprobably aren't familiar with,
but it's that range that we sitat, that we are refueling all of
the energy we use throughoutthe day.
We can be there, that's wherewe should be most of the year
(02:08):
and it's where we are mosteffective.
And finding that balance for mewas what helped me to maximize
a lot of my performance goals,as well as body composition
changes.
And in turn, then I wanted tobe that for other people and
support other people and findingthe sustainable habits that
(02:32):
would help them reach theirgoals, whether it was weight
loss, body comp changes,performance and just learning
more about that and being ableto do for them what what was
done for me and so helpful.
Sam Rhee (02:44):
So if someone's skeptic and they're saying, why
do I need a nutrition coach, Icould just read this stuff.
I could just watch a bunch ofYouTube videos like the one,
probably like this one and justsort of figure it out myself.
Because you know, this isn'trocket science, it's I eat every
day.
I should be able to figure outwhat I'm doing with that.
It's not rocket science, it's Ieat every day.
I should be able to figure outwhat I'm doing with that.
Kelly Cavin (03:05):
It's not rocket science and I think people
sometimes overcomplicate whatthey're looking for or what they
need to do.
I think primarily it'saccountability.
I think it's somebody to toknow someone's looking over your
shoulder to kind of steer youin the right direction when you
fall off a little bit.
People really thrive when theyknow that they're being held
(03:32):
accountable, whether it's acoach, a friend, a partner, a
spouse.
It just helps to know thatyou're answering to somebody
else.
Sam Rhee (03:40):
I would agree with that a thousand percent for two
reasons.
One is we actually, as laypeople in general, don't know as
much about nutrition as wethink we do.
And I know that as a physician,because as physicians we're
horrible at nutrition and mostof my knowledge in terms of
nutrition has been trial anderror, going through nutrition
(04:01):
challenges and resets and tryingand experimenting with
different diets.
And I think if I had had anutrition coach at the beginning
, someone who had had experiencesort of working with people and
saying, okay, so you mightthink this is what you need to
do, but why don't you thinkabout it this way or try it this
way?
And then, like you said, alsoaccountability.
(04:23):
I think one of the biggestthings that I've seen in fitness
is that you need accountability, right, that's why we take
classes.
That's what CrossFit's about.
It's about being in a groupsetting.
It's about putting your numberup on the whiteboard, and you
don't have to necessarily putyour number on a whiteboard for
everyone to see for nutrition.
But if there is someone therethat is helping you, saying, hey
, listen, this is not you knowor encouragement more like, oh,
(04:50):
you met your goals, that youreally needed to for this, this
and this it just sort of getsyou into the right habits?
Well sure.
So then, when you start withclients, what do you think is
the biggest misconception, orwhat is it that they don't know
or don't realize the most whenyou first start working with
somebody?
Kelly Cavin (05:04):
I think in part it is that accountability, it's
knowing so when I start workingwith people I'm not breathing
down your neck.
And I find that some people jumpright in and they want to make
me happy, and so they're doingit because they know that I'm
looking and they want to be theA student.
Other people kind of pick andchoose what they want to take
(05:25):
from what I put out there andthen some people fall off and
don't really stick with it andmaybe they weren't ready or
maybe they just don't want tomake the lifestyle changes.
It ebbs and flows for everybody, but I think the most important
thing to know is that it's alevel of accountability that you
(05:45):
still have to maintain foryourself.
I'm not going to babysit you orI check in once a week.
You know I have access maybe tomy fitness pal or your notes
and your phone, or you can sharea diary with me, but I'm not
looking at it every day to seewhat you're eating.
It's just kind of knowing thatit's possible you might second
guess some choices and makebetter ones if you know that's
(06:07):
the case, right.
Sam Rhee (06:07):
So you don't need to be a parent where you're sitting
there breathing down their neckabout all this stuff.
And it's about accountability,but that accountability has to
come from your client, who hasto put that in.
You're not going to build likeestablish their resolve or
somehow give them the will, likethey have to bring that will to
the table in order to get thisdone.
(06:29):
That's important, like that'sfor every coach right.
Like you know, when you go workout, you can't get your coach
to do the workout for you.
Like you've got to put in theeffort.
Kelly Cavin (06:39):
Yeah, and it can be frustrating because you can.
You can lead a horse to water.
You can give them everythingthat they need and it's on them
to use it or not, to trust theprocess.
It's a process.
You're not going to see, um,you know, it's not the quick fix
and that's what makes itsustainable and that's what
makes it.
Then, when we're our timetogether is done, you can
(07:00):
continue doing those thingsbecause you've adapted to habits
that are flexible and you cansustain in day to day life
without me or a coach.
Sam Rhee (07:11):
What is it that you love about nutrition coaching,
like why why do you still do it?
What is it that really gets youjazzed about it?
Kelly Cavin (07:17):
I think it was.
As I mentioned before.
The motivation for me washelping other people kind of
change that disordered thinkingand knowing that, like every day
can't be an all or nothing andyou know it's.
You can work things into yourday to day that you may consider
bad or good and make it allwork, because we don't live in a
vacuum.
(07:37):
You know we can commit certaintimes to being really dialed in
but that's not reality.
There's holidays, birthdays,dinner out, bad days where you
just want a treat or whatever itmight be.
It's learning how to managethose times and when people
trust me and they givethemselves that grace and that
(08:00):
time and they start to see itwork, and then they come back to
me and they're like, oh my gosh, I love I enjoyed my
Thanksgiving so much because Ididn't feel like I had to eat
everything in sight, but Ienjoyed it and it was delicious
and the next day I just got backon track and you know I didn't
feel guilty about it.
It's those moments that reallyare like big aha moments for
(08:21):
them and really gratifying forme.
Sam Rhee (08:24):
So let's suppose I'm one of your new clients and I'm
showing up at your door and wehave a meeting and I don't know
anything about nutrition.
I just need help.
What is it that you're going todo with me at the get?
Go to get me started.
Kelly Cavin (08:38):
So usually it's a conversation, a meeting, to kind
of establish their why.
You know, why do they want toget you know their nutrition on
track, where do they see theirchallenges and what do they
think they do well, because Ithink that's really important to
kind of work off of as well.
So we have that conversationand kind of all explain my
(09:01):
process.
I check in weekly, I provideyou know we track weight and
other biometrics measurementsand things like that to just
track changes.
And then I'll send aquestionnaire that helps them
dig in a little bit more, givesme more information about them.
But also, have they worked witha nutrition coach before?
(09:22):
If so, what was that like?
Um?
Was it a good experience or bad?
What they feel their nutritionknowledge to be?
Um?
Have they used a tracker ofsome sort my fitness pal.
Have they counted macros before?
Um?
It's important to know whatstress levels, uh, sleep
patterns, if they have foodaversions, um, uh, if they have
(09:46):
allergies of any sort, because Idon't want to be recommending
foods that they either can't eator like I hate that.
And then it's important tolearn more about their life, you
know.
Do they have kids?
Do they work full time?
Do they exercise.
That's also a big piece, howoften they exercise.
So it just gives me kind of a360 degree view of what I'm
working with, and then we kindof establish just a jumping off
(10:10):
point.
It's always good to get youknow three to five days of them,
tracking just what they eat dayto day, and usually it comes
out a little cleaner than itnormally would be.
Sam Rhee (10:22):
Well, yeah, because they're writing it down.
Kelly Cavin (10:24):
Now they're thinking about it so
automatically.
They're kind of like dialing itin a little bit, but it gives
me a good idea of what theireven maintenance numbers might
be and where a good jumping offpoint is.
And then it's always the lowhanging fruit.
It's starting, simple it's areyou getting enough protein with
every meal?
Are you getting fruits andvegetables with every meal?
(10:46):
Are you exercising?
How often are you exercising?
So it's setting small goals tostart, so that they feel
successful week over week andthey're not overwhelmed, and
also asking for patience andgrace, because it does take time
for those things to add up, tofeel like more.
Sam Rhee (11:08):
What apps do you like to use for clients in terms of
them tracking themselves?
Kelly Cavin (11:13):
My Fitness Pal is the easiest one because it gives
me access to their journal so Ican log in and view what
they've had and they can say tome hey, you know, on this day I
ate this, but I'm not sure if Ihad had that or what could I
have added to this and I can goin and access and view
everything.
I haven't found other apps thathave that capability and so
(11:34):
that's really the mostinteractive with them.
Some people don't.
Tracking is a little bitdaunting.
It's not meant to be forever,but it is a really good tool.
But it's also helpful forpeople to just add notes in
their phone and they can sharethose with me.
I have a teenager who does that.
I'm like I'm not going to askher to blog in MyFitnessPal
(11:57):
every day, but she will makenotes and share them and then I
can see.
It's just an easy way for herto jot down her daily intake
without being super, and itkeeps her going because it's not
an overwhelming ask.
Sam Rhee (12:13):
That's not bad, ok, so let's get into a couple of
possible scenarios, so someexample people that you might
see, and maybe one of ourlisteners or watchers might be
sort of in this category, andthen we can sort of approach it.
And this is the first one.
I called the busy professional.
So this is someone maybe in the40, 45 years old, somewhere in
(12:34):
there, maybe 50.
They don't know a whole lotabout nutrition per se.
They don't really exercise thatregularly and over the past
couple of years every yearthey're gaining about two pounds
.
Maybe they travel a lot or theywork a lot, so they're kind of
limited in terms of, like, theiroptions eating at work.
Maybe they binge eat, likemaybe they don't eat all day and
(12:56):
then they eat a lot at nightwhen they get home.
The rest of their habits arekind of not awesome either.
They're stressed right becausethey have a lot of work related
issues.
Maybe maybe they're notsleeping well.
And now they're coming, comingto you because they're like wow,
I've gained like 10 pounds overthe past couple of years and I
need help with this.
(13:17):
Like, how do we start with this?
Kelly Cavin (13:19):
So I think someone like that, the schedule is a big
challenge, with travelespecially, but also being in an
office, maybe sitting at a deskall day long.
Be sitting at a desk all daylong.
I emphasize meals in that caseeating breakfast before you
leave, planning lunch you canuse a meal prep service, you can
(13:40):
bring leftovers from dinner thenight before Someone like that.
I would probably recommendmaking a designated time during
the week to plan out meals sothat you're not scrambling.
You get home from work andyou're like oh, I didn't have
anything planned for dinner, I'mjust going to have a bowl of
cereal.
Nothing wrong with a bowl ofcereal here and there, but it's
also not great every day, and soit's good to have a plan.
(14:03):
I also I've worked with a lot ofpeople who travel and we talk
about, you know, airports havecome a long way.
They have a lot of, you know,really great snacks and
refrigerated items that you canget once you're through the hard
boiled eggs.
There's high protein Greekyogurts, protein bars if you
need them, but even like a wrapwith you know, deli turkey or
(14:26):
the different, like snack boxesthat have cheeses and nuts and
things that you can, there areways to get that protein in and
things that you can.
There are ways to get thatprotein in if you're wanting to
make the effort.
The core power energy drinksare great, so even having like a
stash of that at work so thatif you need something it's just
a quick grab.
And then movement is key, evenif it's not intentional exercise
(14:49):
, but getting up to walk aroundthe office for five minutes
every hour.
So walk around the airport, godown to the gym at work and then
, once someone starts to getmomentum a little bit, then you
move on to.
Well, hey, how about you gettwo times in at the gym a week?
And just because they'refeeling good, making progress
(15:10):
where they are, you kind of takethe next step.
How's your sleep?
You know, go to bed a half hourearlier every night if you're
stressed and you just need tolike relax, unplug a little bit
and try to work back some ofthat stress and just start small
.
Sam Rhee (15:22):
I think one of the biggest things with these types
of people is that it's sort of avicious cycle, like they have a
lot of stress, they have a lotof habits that are sort of
molded around their reallycrappy work schedule and then
they can't break out of it.
And it's because of that thatthey give themselves a grace,
like well, I can't do thesethings because I'm is so far off
(15:45):
the pendulum on this.
I actually have to do this,maybe more than other people do
and that's really hard whenyou've only gotten four hours of
sleep.
You've been on a plane for sixhours, you have a work dinner
(16:07):
and you know, and those are thekind of people that need to
start.
But especially because youcould probably do that when
you're in your 20s, early 30s,but then you get into your 40s
and it gets really hard.
I would say, for a lot ofpeople I work with, alcohol
tends to be a killer.
It messes up your sleep.
When you drink at work dinnersand so forth, it just it.
(16:29):
It's a lot of empty caloriessometimes makes.
It also leads to poor foodchoices.
Kelly Cavin (16:35):
Yeah, but that's a big piece of the alcohol
drinking in general is just itlowers your inhibitions and then
you're like, oh, I'm just goingto have that.
Sam Rhee (16:44):
Right.
Kelly Cavin (16:45):
What's the big deal ?
It adds up.
Sam Rhee (16:46):
Exactly, and so and I found that in the past and so so
once you kind of break thecycle a little bit, you can sort
of get out of it.
But I think finding the way tobreak it is really hard because
it does take planning.
Like you said, meal prep is notsomething that you do in the
spur of the moment.
You have to actually spend sometime doing that.
Kelly Cavin (17:06):
And there's services.
One of my clients started usinga service and said you know, I
can split them and I can freezeone and then when I come home
after work or I can have halffor dinner and half for lunch.
Um, it's, those are kind ofthat.
That's a great person to leaninto, that, because you also
don't want to come home fromwork after a long day and have
(17:26):
to pull a meal together.
Um, I, a lot of companies andoffices have exercise incentives
like walk, getting steps, andgift cards and insurance
companies offer the same type of.
So it's.
You can look into those thingsto kind of get that extra push
as well if there's a littlereward at the end of it.
And I do think having highprotein snacks available at the
(17:52):
office because it's easy to kindof just grab something and pick
.
But knowing that if you aredoing that, it's something that
is has benefits is important aswell.
Sam Rhee (18:03):
It's tough when they have donuts at the office and
you have your core protein shakeor whatever, like.
You have to actually have somewillpower because your coach
isn't going to be able to dothat for you.
Kelly Cavin (18:13):
You have to actually be able to, like
navigate that, or have the donut, but also have the core power.
You know, make the pair of thechoice with something better,
and you know you don't alwayshave to.
I think it is important to giveyourself the grace to have
those things.
Otherwise you go into thatrestriction mode where you feel
like it's all off limits andthen you either pick the
(18:36):
weekends to go off the rails orin general you just completely
fall off the rails and and kindof lose that momentum.
So that is a big piece too iskind of working in the things
that you enjoy.
Sam Rhee (18:47):
I like that.
You're a very flexible,forgiving coach and much, much
better than some of my coachesin my life.
Let's put it that way, allright?
So let's go to scenario numbertwo, the young athlete.
So we have some people likethis at the gym there, let's say
it's a 25-ish year old woman,maybe 30, training, loves
CrossFit, doing a ton ofworkouts.
(19:10):
She wants to improve herperformance, but she's also
worried, like she wants to stayfeminine.
She doesn't want to get bulkyor muscle bound or heavy or
change her aesthetics negatively.
Like, how do you approachsomeone like that?
Kelly Cavin (19:27):
So I think this is where the beauty of maintenance
comes in.
When you know what yourmaintenance it's's a range, but
what that range of calories isper day, it's really important
to eat enough when you'retraining like that, without
eating too much.
I think that's where the beautyof macros comes in.
You're getting enough proteinfor muscle growth and repair and
(19:51):
maintenance if that's your goal.
But also carbs and fat aresuper important for energy.
Timing them, like having theright things before and after
workouts is important and that'ssomething that when you have
that balance throughout the day,that's when you also can see
those body composition changes.
It's hard to get bulky.
(20:12):
I know that's like a big fearfor women in general, but people
work like years to get bulky.
Eating in a surplus is oftennecessary for that to happen as
well.
So having a handle on how muchyou're eating and being at that
maintenance number kind of keepsthat in check as well.
Sam Rhee (20:32):
In terms of macro.
So counting macros is basicallycounting macronutrients, which
is your proportion ofcarbohydrates, fats and protein
that you take in every day, andyou have certain proportions and
certain numbers in terms ofcalories of each.
And I have tried that and it isvery onerous and I could see it
and, like most people, probablydon't have the time or patience
(20:55):
to do it.
An athlete in this situationwould, because that's very
important to her.
But have you tried countingmacros personally and how did
you find that to be as a process?
Because I always felt like itwas at the end of the day, I was
like, oh, I'm short, like 10grams of fat, and so I'd like
eat like seven peanuts orsomething.
Kelly Cavin (21:15):
Yeah.
Sam Rhee (21:16):
Like it's it, just it started to become a little crazy
.
Kelly Cavin (21:18):
It can be and if that's kind of your tendency not
you per se but if your tendencyis disordered, eating in any
sort of way, counting macros canbe a slippery slope.
I also don't think thatnecessarily has to be forever.
I've counted macros years agoand was given very low numbers
and I at the time didn'tunderstand macros and the
(21:44):
calorie correlation.
In hindsight, when I did learnmore about them and looked back,
I was like no wonder I wasstarving and miserable and
Freddie couldn't wait for me tostop counting or for, like, the
challenge to be over because Iwas miserable.
But it's also a really good wayto keep yourself in check to
eat a well-balanced.
It kind of encourages you toeat more well-balanced.
The more whole fruits,vegetables, grains, lean
(22:06):
proteins you eat, the more youcan eat volume wise.
So if you're in a deficit,you're going to be hungry.
You're eating less than yourbody needs and it's important to
make sure that you'remitigating that with those kinds
of foods.
But for the general person,your goals are generally are
calorie based and macros docorrelate to that.
(22:27):
So if you're in a deficit youcould have a calorie threshold
and just make sure you'regetting enough protein.
Um, the fats and carbs can landwherever they are.
Um.
Ultimately, calories are Kingand you it's that's going to
dictate whether you're atmaintenance, in a surplus, in a
deficit, how deep of a deficityou're in Um.
(22:48):
So no, I, I wouldn't.
I would say for an athlete likethis, they're helpful.
Um.
I.
I was both surprised at howmuch I could eat Um when I did
this and built every week to seelike how far I could push and
maintain Um.
I think we're so programmed tohave this like lower calorie
(23:09):
threshold in all of our minds,but I also think that for an
athlete, getting that balance ismore caters more to good
performance.
Sam Rhee (23:21):
I think it's surprising how your appetite or
at least mine did changed when Iwas eating more protein, like I
was actually less hungry thanwhen I was eating a lot more
carbs.
Kelly Cavin (23:40):
I think it.
Just, you know, the satietysort of reflex is a little bit
different.
We burn protein slower than weburn carbs.
Carbs we burn very quickly andthat's why pre-workout it's
really helpful to have quickdigesting carbs fruits,
vegetables, rice, cakes, cereal,things like that.
At all the CrossFitcompetitions Everyone's got that
they're they're uncrustable andthings like that, because you
(24:02):
burn that quickly and then it'sready to go for your workouts.
I always think of the when I goout to eat.
If I were to order a stack ofpancakes for breakfast, I'm
starving like an hour laterbecause, it's burnt.
Sam Rhee (24:16):
Right.
Kelly Cavin (24:16):
So protein is slower to digest.
We actually burn the mostcalories, you know digesting
protein as well, but it willkeep you more full longer.
And as well as fruits andvegetables with fiber, that also
is slower to process and keepyou more full fruits and
vegetables with fiber.
Sam Rhee (24:36):
That also is slower to process and keep you more full.
How um hard or uptight are youabout processed or ultra
processed foods?
I I feel like it depends on theclient.
Like the 45 year old dude, I'mnot sweating so much the
processed stuff because he justneeds to get sort of what he can
um, but for someone like anathlete like this or, in general
, like the healthier you keepreaching towards you kind of
(24:58):
like it feels like I'm trying tostay away more from the process
or ultra process yeah, I thinkthe dose is in the poison or the
poisons in the dose in thatcase.
Kelly Cavin (25:08):
Um, where you know too much of that isn't good for
anybody.
But if that's your, you knowyour 200 calorie treat at the
end of the day and you've hitall your goals and it works for
you Absolutely.
I think that that fits.
I think, for an athlete likethat, if you're trying to
maximize what your body can doand you want the micronutrients
(25:31):
also of all of the, the fruitsand vegetables and whole foods,
then it's probably somethingthat you might want to steer
away from.
But also you don't want tocater to that mentality of
things being off limits.
So, even as an athlete, I thinkit's important to give yourself
the grace of those treats andfoods here and there, because
(25:52):
otherwise you're creating thatdichotomy of good and bad like
breaking rules.
And then you then there's an endpoint where you can't sustain
that anymore.
Right, and you don't want that.
You know long-term, then you'renot creating habits, you're.
It's more of a diet that isn'tgoing to last.
Sam Rhee (26:11):
I like the fact that you're trying to not establish
these psychological barriers ofyou know, because we all have
them, either culturally when wegrew up, maybe our parents,
maybe like when we were youngadults, where things are
forbidden, they're notappropriate, and sort of like
kind of removing that stigma,kind of helps people not have to
freak out about that.
Kelly Cavin (26:31):
I think we grew up in a time of diet food like
light, this diet that Everyonehas, the people they look to in
their time, where it was BritneySpears for me they're a lot of.
It is genetic and for me thatwas never going to be the case.
So when I realized, withbuilding muscle, that that was
(26:55):
really empowering and it feltreally good and I'm really happy
with the way I look and I wantmy kids to see that and my girls
, and to not feel like foods aregood or bad or that, like you
need the diet food, it's it.
You know, everything has aplace and a time.
Sam Rhee (27:11):
Let's go through the last one, the new parent.
I think this is verychallenging.
So you're like a 30, 35 yearold parent.
You have kids, maybe multiplekids.
You have to.
You know you're making familymeals, but then you also have
personal health goals as wellLike, how like, and your life is
just a mess because you haveall these family
responsibilities.
(27:31):
You're pulling your hair out.
How do they approach theireating as well as sort of their
families eating at the same time?
Kelly Cavin (27:39):
I think the simpler the better.
I think people have a tendencyto overcomplicate.
It doesn't have to be a recipe.
You can grill a bunch ofchicken, you can roast a bunch
of vegetables, or and make pastaor rice on the side, or mashed
potatoes or sweet potatoes.
It's having a little bit ofeach that something will work
(28:04):
for everyone.
It's easy to.
I'm a recipe follower and Imake the time for that because
I'm just not great at pullingthings together.
But I do think that in thosetimes, because I've been there
and I have three kids andeverybody has different
preferences and I have my owngoals and things that I want
(28:26):
it's just a matter of makingsure that you're not
overcomplicating it and you cansimplify just a protein, a carb
and some vegetables or twovegetables or two carbs,
whatever it might be, so thateverybody has a little bit of
everything.
The crock pot or the air fryer,things like that that are just
(28:49):
make things that much easier.
I put food and I put it in theon the crock pot yesterday and I
like conquered the bay.
It was like I was done at 12and I felt so good.
Also, something that peopledon't always think about is
frozen food.
Um, there's frozen grilledchicken.
There's frozen vegetables.
They're flash frozen at theirripest.
There is no, there's nothingwrong with frozen food, so buy a
(29:10):
bunch of bags of frozenvegetables and defrost one for
everybody, or whatever it may be.
There's different flavorprofiles.
That's the easiest way to go,and it's very readily available
and relatively inexpensive too.
Sam Rhee (29:28):
This one is a tough one because it's always easier
said than done and I've seenparents struggle with my child
will only eat peas and chickenfingers and refuses to eat
anything else, or, you know,they have food aversion or other
issues, and so I don't thinkI've ever seen a child ever
carry that out throughpre-adolescence.
Kelly Cavin (29:52):
Yeah.
Sam Rhee (29:52):
But certainly the first couple of years can always
be a little bit of a challengewith stuff like that.
Kelly Cavin (29:57):
I also think there's something that I've had
to work on is moving away fromthe traditional breakfast is
breakfast, lunch is lunch,dinner is dinner.
Have breakfast for dinner.
There's no problem withscrambled eggs and some cut up
fruit.
You know it doesn't have to bevegetables, you can call up
fruit with their dinner.
Um, and kind of moving out ofthose traditional ideals um kind
(30:18):
of helps you to broaden thehorizons on things that they
might be more open to eating.
That's awesome I love a turkeysandwich for dinner.
You know, it's like I'm verymarried to that, or I always was
, so it's always a little bithard for me to have like
something like breakfast fordinner, right, and then I think,
well, why couldn't I have eggsfor dinner?
(30:40):
What is the big deal?
So I love that helps you.
Sam Rhee (30:45):
So I love everything that we've talked about so far.
So I love everything that we'vetalked about so far.
Um, what are some of the finalbig takeaways that you would
want someone listening to thisto know about nutrition, about
nutrition coaching, about howthey, if they don't have someone
or have never had someone, likelike what they should expect
(31:07):
and and why should they, at thispoint, just now, start doing it
?
Kelly Cavin (31:10):
I think there's a lot of noise out there about
what's good for you, what's badfor you different diets,
cleanses, quick fixes but wedon't live in a vacuum and we do
need to learn how to adaptthese healthy habits to take on
whatever it is that comes ourway from day to day, and I think
(31:32):
that before we look to thosethings, you have to check the
boxes, and it's not thatcomplicated.
It's eating protein, fruits andvegetables, moving your body
every day, whether it's a walkor an intentional workout,
getting enough sleep, drinkingenough water.
None of it is sexy or exciting,but it's the most sustainably
(31:57):
simple way to live and it allowsfor flexibility.
So if you are checking allthose boxes and still having a
hard time, then there may bemore going on there, but I think
a lot of people look past allof that and want to do the easy
thing that's going to give themquicker results.
Sam Rhee (32:15):
Yeah, I think most of the things that I've seen have
very hard, strict guidelines.
Like any other diet that you'veseen out there whether it's a
grapefruit diet or this or thatand um it, it imposes, like you
(33:05):
said, these ideas that this canbe done quickly, that you can do
this in three months or sixmonths, and I think most of us
know who have ever sort of dealtwith nutrition on a uh and
grappled with it.
It it's a process and it's nota linear, straightforward
process.
It's like a zigzag and I've youto be able to hit a baseball
like a 75 mile per hour baseball, but you have to start
somewhere with it and youcontinually get better with it.
And I think that would be mymessage for people is it may
seem daunting with your life,like, oh, how do I get enough
(33:26):
sleep?
How do I drink enough water?
How do I get enough sleep?
How do I drink, you know, drinkenough water?
How do I eat, like healthy?
How do I make these changeswhich sound simple but can be
overwhelming, when it's just somuch easier for me to drive?
You know, on my way home and Iused to be this person pick up
Sonic or Wendy's and that's mymeal and I'm done, and I don't
have to worry about meal prep orany of that stuff.
(34:00):
But at some point most peoplehave to take some sort of
self-responsibility and say,listen, I don't want this to be
the way I live forever, andsometimes people like you know
have really serious about mynutrition is, I went on a trip
and I put on a suit that Ihadn't worn in about a year and
a half and it wouldn't fit and Ihad to go get some safety pins
from downstairs to to to put thepants on, and and I think most
people will find like if theycare enough about themselves,
(34:23):
we'll make those changes, butthen also realize that it's a
process that takes a tremendousamount of time.
Kelly Cavin (34:29):
Well, and you said it.
It's like you know it soundssimple, but we all have
different lives.
We all have different stressesand jobs and things that come
into play.
And that's where a coach ishelpful, because, like with a
coach on a sports team, you needa game plan and my job is then
to tell you how to make thosethings work around your
(34:49):
lifestyle.
And there's ways to do that, nomatter what the process, as
long as you're willing to makethose changes, be open-minded,
um, and kind of trust theprocess.
Sam Rhee (35:01):
I love that.
Um, what is your uh coaching IGhandle?
I know you have an IG.
Kelly Cavin (35:07):
It's Kelly Cavan Nutrition.
Sam Rhee (35:08):
Kelly Cavan Nutrition, check it out.
I thank you so much.
Thank you for the informationand it's actually inspired me
some more.
So I hope for everyone who hasjust gotten through the new year
and is starting to think about,as always, new beginnings, I
encourage that, like it doesn'tmatter when you start, it's just
as good to start in January asit is in July, absolutely, and
(35:30):
don't give up.
Start with you know, stick withit and and I think, like you
said, using a coach can be sohelpful on so many levels.
And thank you so much forsharing your expertise.
Kelly Cavin (35:42):
Thank you for having me.
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